# Should we write a basic guide to all these newbie questions?



## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

It seems to me there are a lot of basic questions we answer again and again to people entering this coffee world.

Would it be a good idea to write a guide outlining:

1) the basic types of coffee machine - espresso/drip/moka/aeropress/filter/french press

2) basic principles of the different types espresso machine - single-boiler-dual-function/twin boiler/heat exchanger/lever - explaining the advantages/disadvantages of each

3) the importance of the grinder

4) recommended purchases in each area

I would be willing to put some work into this if others were too.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Wasn't this discussed really recently?


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

chimpsinties said:


> Wasn't this discussed really recently?


I don't know - if so, I missed it!


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

I think it has been discussed & I said I was up for a section if its a 'goer'


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

And Glen said we can use the Wiki and nick has created a lexicon of words for us to build up.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

OK - so how do we proceed?

I'm willing to write something on what I numbered 2) (describing the basics of different types of espresso machines) - but others may have different ideas. Also, anything I contribute would be improved with input from those more experienced than me.

Or has the work started already?


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

I think there could be a thread started where whoever creates some input others who are assisting in preparing the guidelines could comment & make observations. I do feel initially one person doing one part & then throwing it in for comments could work out well. Then finally the whole lot could be collated into a useful set of guidelines. It would be important to keep everything updated in line with current new developments.

The initial input should not be rushed & maybe a good target completion date would be the New Year.

Just my ideas. Feel free to 'flame' me as required


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

Sticky = http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?7087-Newbie-Sticky-List


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I wrote a short thing on "getting started" for a total newbie, I kind of feel once we get past a certain financial level, newcomers will be happy to be steered by serious/reputable dealers?

If someone wants to take the responsibility of coordinating a basic guide, then I'm happy to submit by PM, or post here...and not precious about what gets cut & edited. The doc's on my work PC and I'm at home now, so I can get to it tomorrow.

It's also worth considering that a lot of folk will still make purchases based on high street kitchen appliance standards, or stuff for sale in Sunday supplement catalogues, even birthday/Xmas gifts, then show up here for advice when/if they don't get satisfactory results.


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## Toucan (Aug 16, 2012)

Would it be better to simply maintain a list of "here's what you need to google"? There's plenty out there that doesn't need to be re-written, it's just hard as a newbie to know where to start finding that information or even what the key words are.


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

I'm sure a lot of the references could just be links to other sources that have already explained it. I.e Temp Surfing -






That would probably be easier to digest for a newbie?


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Toucan said:


> Would it be better to simply maintain a list of "here's what you need to google"? There's plenty out there that doesn't need to be re-written, it's just hard as a newbie to know where to start finding that information or even what the key words are.


 Totally disagree.

We need a simple, well-written outline that reflects the general consensus of the site.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I think it's worth considering that newbies may simply be looking to enhance their coffee experience, irrespective of whether that is down the espresso-centric route, or not. E.g. someone on a budget, who like Americanos/longer back coffee drinks & cappas (not bothered about latte art), maybe better off with a capable grinder & moka pot/manual brew methods? Perhaps it would benefit some to weigh up these options prior to commiting to a purchase, rather than simply post links to remedial actions once they are already struggling & in need of greater financial outlay?

I appreciate that espresso is often the "bait" that gets people hooked & there will always be those seeking the sub-£150 "excellent espresso" combo, but for £60-£70 for a manual/basic grinder & pour-over/Clever Dripper/French press you can still enjoy some absolutely outstanding coffee....Mind you, it occurs to me that was advice I pretty much ignored when offered to me not so long ago...


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

MWJB said:


> I think it's worth considering that newbies may simply be looking to enhance their coffee experience, irrespective of whether that is down the espresso-centric route, or not. E.g. someone on a budget, who like Americanos/longer back coffee drinks & cappas (not bothered about latte art), maybe better off with a capable grinder & moka pot/manual brew methods? Perhaps it would benefit some to weigh up these options prior to commiting to a purchase, rather than simply post links to remedial actions once they are already struggling & in need of greater financial outlay?


 Yes, good point.

Although it does seem that the majority of questions are about espresso machines, and who are we to deny anybody's right to have their life ruined by becoming obsessed by beautiful shiny expensive machines...


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Maybe this guide needs sections

Basics

-What you'll need

-What you should expect to spend

-What to avoid

Advanced

-Improve your technique - links to articles

-Where to go from here in terms of upgrading

etc etc


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

We've probably all got slightly different ideas on what this guide should be.

What I might do is write the section I want to write (which is basically about demystifying espresso technology - something I wish I could have read a couple of years ago) and throw it open for everyone to pull apart.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

If everyone adds an article to the Wiki I can then pull it into a single Thread we can add headings to.

This way the articles are updated but the links stay the same.

Easier to manage and can be set as a Sticky and even available to download with credits where relevant too


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

In the interim could we maybe adopt a standard reply to--advice wanted, which macine to buy.

If anyone or everyone replied the same it would simplify and shorten loads of threads.

Ian


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I've added a "Getting started on a budget..." to the Wiki, comments, observations, suggestions appreciated...


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

As a relative newbie to espresso I would personally find this a very useful guide


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

This is my first draft of a piece I said I'd write on 'choosing an espresso machine' - it's meant to be a basic introduction for those arriving here for the first time.

Please pull it apart as much as you want. (I tried to upload a Word file but it failed).

Roland

(updated below)


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

(BUMP) - Like some feedback on this...

This is my first draft of a piece I said I'd write on 'choosing an espresso machine' - it's meant to be a basic introduction for those arriving here for the first time.

Please pull it apart as much as you want. (I tried to upload a Word file but it failed).

Roland

(updated below)


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

will try and read and give feedback when i can, have given it a quick scan and it looks Ok, but don't look to the dyslexic for spelling corrections.









Suppose we need one on grinders to!!


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

RobD said:


> will try and read and give feedback when i can, have given it a quick scan and it looks Ok, but don't look to the dyslexic for spelling corrections.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Absolutely! - newbies never believe yo when you tell them the grinder is the most important thing. But someone else can gave a go at that.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

A very nicely written & informative piece.

The only suggestion I thought about for consideration would maybe start off with the summary prices for each type & then refer to the detail below. For example:

*
Most favoured* on this forum are the Gaggia Classic (£200) and the Rancilio Silvia (£400)

*Popular HX machines* include the Fracino Cherub (£720), the Expobar Leva Office (£900), the glamorous Rocket Giotto and Cellini (£1200 to £1400)

*Popular Dual Boiler machines* include the Birmingham-made Fracino Piccino (£600), Expobar Leva Dual (£1100),the Izzo Alex Duetto (£1900) & La Spaziale Vivaldi II (£1500). The Expobar and the Alex have PID controls to maintain and adjust brew temperature accurately.

*Popular lever machines* include the Pavoni Europiccola (£300-£500), the Ponte Vecchio Lusso (£650 - £800), the Elektra Micocasa (£1000), the Olympia Cremina (£2750) and the newly launched Londinium 1 (£1600)

I added the La Spaz to the dual boiler list.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

I agree with everything that ronsil has written, well done rolo. This piece should be the standard reply to all the numerous people asking the same question yet again.

Ian


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Thanks guys.

Following Ronsil's suggestions, it now reads like this (still having problems attaching Word files):

*Choosing an Domestic Espresso Machine*

An espresso machine has a seemingly simple task - to pump water through ground coffee at a temperature of around 93˚c and a pressure of 9 bar in 20 to 30 seconds. There is a secondary function of producing steam for heating and foaming milk. So why is there such a range of machines and range of prices (from £50 to £2000 and beyond)? What do you get for your money? How much do you need to spend to make a decent espresso?

There are a couple of key features that distinguish the good from the mediocre, and perhaps the most important is:

*Temperature Stability*

Supplying water at the correct temperature is essential for espresso. A commercial espresso machine is designed to be left on all day; it has a large boiler and a large amount of metal which, once warmed up, will keep a stable temperature all day long. Many commercial machines also heat the group (the bit the water passes through which the portafilter - the part that holds the ground coffee - locks onto) to help keep temperature stable.

But in a smaller domestic machine it is much more difficult to maintain temperature - it will continually heat up and cool down as coffee is made.

*Brew Temperature and Steam Temperature*

*
*

You may have noticed already that the task of the espresso machine is not so straight forward - it has to supply water at for the coffee but at near boiling point for the steam. How is is able to do this?

*1. Single Boiler Dual Function*

*Most favoured on this forum are the Gaggia Classic (£200) and the Rancilio Silvia (£400)*

*
*

The very cheapest espresso machines (under £100), despite their appearances, are really like a version of the Bialetti or Moka stove top pots; rather than using a pump, hot water is heated up by an electric element and steam pressure passes it though the coffee. This inevitably means the water is too hot and scalds the coffee. We will not be considering these.

The simplest 'proper' domestic espresso machines work like this: a small thermostat-controlled boiler heats up the water to brew temperature, the pump forces it through the coffee. To make steam to foam your milk, you switch to a second thermostat and wait until the water reaches boiling point.

Immediately we can see two problems with this system: firstly, you have to wait a few minutes between brewing and steaming for the boiler to get hotter and, perhaps more importantly, the temperature in the boiler is rising and falling all the time - after you have made steam, the boiler is going to be substantially hotter than it was before and it could take some time to return to the correct temperature for coffee.

The Classic is solid, reliable and parts are easy to replace. It is a very popular machine and it easy to pick up a decent one second hand.

The Silvia is generally regarded as a slightly better machine - more solid and better temperature stability - but the current price differential between it and the Classic mean that, arguably, it is not such good value for money.

Both the Classic and the Silvia can upgraded with a PID control. The PID (stands for Proportional/Integral/Derivative) is an electronic device that, rather than switching power to the boiler on and off like a simple thermostat, supplies power in a series of pulses that get briefer as the boiler approaches the correct temperature. The PID control also allows you to experiment with different temperatures for different coffees.

*2. Heat Exchanger (HX)*

*Popular HX machines include the Fracino Cherub (£720), the Expobar Leva Office (£900), and the Rocket Giotto and Cellini (£1200 to £1400)*

*
*

The heat exchanger has been used for decades in commercial machines. In an HX machine there is one heating element and one boiler, which superheats water under pressure so it can deliver steam on demand. Temperature of the water is regulated by a pressurestat (the pressure of the water in the boiler is directly related to its temperature). The brew water does not come directly from the boiler but from a copper tube that passes through the boiler.

A variation on this design (often but not necessarily incorporated into HX system) is the thermosiphon, which uses principles of convection (hot water rises/cold water sinks) to pass water directly from the boiler to the group which acts as a heat sink to reduce this superheated water to brew temperature. If the group gets too hot or too cold, water in the thermosiphon will circulate and bring it back to the correct temperature.

The E61 group is often found on HX machines (called so because it was developed by Faema in 1961 - the year of the eclipse). Although initially a commercial design, it is now found on many prosumer machines. In the E61 group water is circulated through the body of the group itself, maintaining a stable temperature. It also allows for pre-infusion, which lets hot water flow into the coffee grinds just before extraction takes place enabling a better extraction.

All the machines mentioned above are solidly made and will produce excellent coffee. The Italian machines (like Rocket and Izzo) tend to win on sheer looks, but the British (Fracino) and Spanish (Expobar) machines offer excellent value for money.

All the machines mentioned so far use an electric pump to force water through the coffee. Pumps come into two basic types - vibratory and rotary. Both work well; the vibratory pumps are cheaper, rotary pumps quieter.

*3. Dual Boiler*

*Popular Dual Boiler machines include the Fracino Piccino (£600), Expobar Leva Dual (£1100), La Spaziale Vivaldi II (£1500) and the Izzo Alex Duetto (£1900)*

*
*

A increasingly popular solution is to have one boiler supplying the water for brewing coffee and a separate boiler supplying water for steam. Both boilers have their own heating elements. This creates a slightly more complicated and more costly system, but it does mean the temperature of the brew water can be controlled completely independently of the steam system. E61 type groups are also found on Dual Boiler machines.

Both HX and Dual Boiler machines can maintain stable temperature and steam milk at the same time as they brew coffee and produce first rate espresso and cappuccino. Some machines, like the Expobar Leva Dual and the Alex Duetto have PID controls to maintain and adjust temperature accurately.

Although in principle, Dual Boiler may seem like a better solution than HX machines, in practice both can produce excellent coffee. It really comes down to the particular design of the machine, and some HX designs may have better temperature stability and steam power than Dual Boiler machines.

But there is an alternative to pump machines:

*4. Lever Machines*

*
*

*Popular lever machines include the Pavoni Europiccola (£300-£500), the Ponte Vecchio Lusso (£650 - £800), the Elektra Micocasa (£1000), the Olympia Cremina (£2750) and the Londinium I (£1600)*

Lever machines use a manual lever connected to a piston to force water through the coffee. This is traditional method that preceded electric pumps and is still favoured in southern Italy and is now having something of a resurgence.

Advocates of lever machines claim that the column of water the piston pushes through the coffee extracts the very best from the coffee and the mechanical design of the system means temperature of water is reduced as the piston descends, reducing the undesirable elements that remain in the coffee as the extraction progresses. Lever machines have the additional advantage of being extremely reliable and almost silent.

In manual lever machines the lever is connected directly to the piston, in spring-driven machines it is the spring that does the work (lifting the lever tensions the spring ready for the next extraction). Like dual boiler and heat exchanger designs, lever machines will supply steam without waiting for the boiler to reheat - either by basic mechanical design (the mass of the group and cylinder cooling the boiler water to the correct temperature) or by using thermosiphon principles. The best lever machines also exhibit excellent temperature stability but, with some of the more inexpensive machines, keeping the temperature steady can be a bit hit or miss (or, some would say, an acquired skill).

The high price of some new lever machines is offset by the fact, because of simplicity of design and quality of engineering, they can literally last a lifetime.

*In conclusion: How much difference does it really make?*

1. ALL the above machines are capable of making good espresso and cappucino, just on some it is easier than others. Generally speaking, the more sophisticated machines give more consistent results - it may take a bit more skill and fiddling to get a predictable result out of a smaller machine. Milk steaming is also easier on a bigger, more powerful machine.

2. The more sophisticated machines not only are likely to give you more consistent results, they will also allow you to fine-tune the extraction to get the very best out of the beans. This can make the difference between good and great coffee.

3. The bigger machines also allow you produce more coffees in a row and steam more milk without having to wait for the machine to heat up or cool down. If you are holding a dinner party and want to make half a dozen or more cappucinos, you find it so tedious on a small machine you end up offering them another form of coffee altogether.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Happy to turn this into a PDF and attach for reference at any time.

Let me know when complete and I'll do the necessary.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

(bump)

No other comments/reactions?


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

I would suggest that is a brilliant piece, no changes needed send it to the publishers









Ian


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Maybe if no other suggestions we ought to ask Glen to do the necessary.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Good work. One minor point - missing an 's' here:

''maintaining a *table *temperature''


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

garydyke1 said:


> One minor point - missing an 's' here:
> 
> ''maintaining a *table *temperature''


 - oops! Corrected that now, thanks.


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## Kamakazie! (Nov 22, 2012)

Really helpful write up RoloD. Informative without being too involved for a newbie like myself.


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## Charlie B (Jan 10, 2013)

Thanks for this thread


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## andrei08 (Feb 7, 2013)

Well i think you should many newbie here really don't know some of it and guide is a great way for them.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

andrei08 said:


> Well i think you should many newbie here really don't know some of it and guide is a great way for them.


It's here under Coffee Wiki/Espresso Trouble Shooting/New members please read this first


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