# Is there a 'perfect' doserless grinder? (Long)



## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

Apologies for starting another grinder thread but I have just started the quest for one and my head hurts!

Now I have pretty much established I want a doserless model, mainly because I will only be making 3-4 espresso cups a day and want it fresh every time. At least that is what I thought I would be getting until I started reading about clumping in the chute and other potential issues. I also would prefer there to be no mess but this seems to come with the territory with doserless. This would seem to me to be possibly that many doserless models look like modified doser models rather than designed as a doserless model. I also want a model designed to dose into a PF not a bag or can. One other thing to note is I will only be grinding for espresso shots, no French Press so will be happy (I think) to set and forget on adjustment. I do want either a single or double dose at the press (or two) of a button. Height may or may not be an issue but I will leave that out of the equation for now. Also price; I am prepared to pay a lot provided it is for a superb product. I quite like over engineering. However it seems to me however much you are prepared to pay there are always compromises. After initial research I had pretty much settled on a; Mazzer Mini E Type A or B - but if I am speding that sort of money I do not think I should have to cut up yoghurt cartons to save more grinds getting on the counter than in the PF! Also it seems it doses to one side of the PF. So I looked at other models as follows:

Compak A8 Automatic - expensive but at least looks like designed as doserless but hard to find any information or reviews other than I read somewhere it was difficult to clean. Looks do not do it for me.

Compak K10 Doserless - clumping issues, grind retention and messy (but could you write this about most doserless grinders?)

Mahlkonig K30 ES - saw a video of this in use and thought it looked like the answer to the mess issue and some nice engineering and looks. I was actually trying to figure how I could justify the cost of this grinder BUT then read some suggestions that Mahlkonigs can overheat the beans and affect taste.

Mahlkonig ProM - not convinced on looks despite the design award. Does not seem user servicable and same taste criticism applies. The Mahlkonig Vario I have ruled out as having a little too much plastic.

Eureka Mignon - gets in this list as, despite being by far the cheapest, it gets good reviews for performance and taste. Adjustment being underneath is not great but as I said I hope to set and forget. It is messy by all accounts but then so are the others so logic could be I may as well save my money and get this?

Finally, out of left field...Anfim Super Caimano On Demand - gets good marks for actually getting most of the dose in the PF! This I like, Not a looker though for the money.

Alll in all I am confused and a little disappointed. There seems to be some pretty basic issues with even the top end machines and, interestingly, some loyal users prepared to put bits of tape, felt tip marks, different or no hopper and the aforementioned yoghurt carton to get around these design flaws.

Can someone please tell me it is all worth it and, better yet, there is a machine out there which meets my requirements? The Mahlkonig K30 ES came closest on paper but is needs to justify the price tag which means I cannot accept compromises on taste. I am thinking I may as well save my money, buy a Eureka and put up with the mess.

Thoughts?


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

"However it seems to me however much you are prepared to pay there are always compromises. After initial research I had pretty much settled on a; Mazzer Mini E Type A or B - but if I am speding that sort of money I do not think I should have to cut up yoghurt cartons to save more grinds getting on the counter than in the PF! Also it seems it doses to one side of the PF."

Not in my experience! The Mini-e doses very cleanly, with very little spill, any of which is well-contained in the baseplate in any case. I've found no need for either yoghurt cartons or WDT. I stuff the portafilter in the holder, press a button and forget it. A quick groom before tamping is all it needs after that.

I fully appreciate the angst that you are going through in choosing a grinder, because I went through exactly the same process a couple of months ago, though in my case the Mini-e was at the ceiling price I was prepared to pay, and things like the Mahlkonig, quite apart from the price, were just too big. At the end of the day, I can only comment on my own experience, but I think that you'll find that satisfied Mini-e users outnumber dissatisfied ones by a hell of a large percentage. On a recent trip around the Veneto, the baristas using the Mini-e (largely for guest and/or decaff) all spoke very highly of them, and that sort of confirmed my choice.

I'm the first one to own up to making mistakes in my choices of equipment - the Vario and me just didn't get on, for example - but the Mini-e does it for me (at the moment ;>)))


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks. Good to hear a real world experience. In truth the Mazzer gives me a logistical headache due to its size (height) so it will have to be really very much better than, say, the Eureka to warrant a lot of juggling around in the kitchen (and notwithstanding the price). I could do this if the Mazzer wins the day but it is a point in the Eureka favour. Anyway I think a trip to Bella Barista is in order to see the machines in the flesh (can compare Eureka, Mazzer, Mahlkonig there). Mahlkonig I think is a non starter but I will take a look.


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi Hashluck. I understand your frustration. Before I got my grinder I kept changing my mind (usually because of one negative from one review).

As you don't plan on pulling many shots in a day you'll most likely end up using your grinder like me and weighing your beans out per shot rather than leaving them getting stale in the hopper and if you do this it doesn't make any difference if you have a doser or doserless as you just run it all through. I personally believe clumping is largely down to the beans and the only reason some grinders have less is because they have something in place to break up the clumps i.e. a doser or on my K3 it has a small rubber flap at the top of the chute. I still get some small clumps but a few seconds with a paper clip (which helps distribute as well) and they're gone. Unfortunately grinding can be a messy business and you're always going to get some stray grounds you'll have to wipe up. I can only comment on my machine but I get very little retention and 99.99% of grinds go straight into the PF. The problem is as they're fluffy when they come out the grinds rise higher than the PF so there will be some spillage till you get good at it.

I would say if no grinder has convinced you at this moment then out of your list go for Mignon. I read alot about it and it sounds solid (I personally didn't like it's looks) It'll most likely retain a fairly decent sell on price if you do decide to upgrade further but if you're happy you've save yourself a bundle that you can spend on a Rocket or similar.


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

Sound advice MonkeyH. I keep changing my mind as well. Every time I think I have found the perfect one I find something out which puts me off. Your point about the Mignon is well made. Invest the least in a machine that is for sure worthy but may have some foibles and find out over time which foibles you can live with and which drive you crazy. And so begins upgradeitis!

By the way I did a lot of research into the Compaq K3 Touch and it does look a nice, if understated, machine. It is just too tall (even with short hopper) and if I am going to get a grinder which is too tall and have to deal with that, then it will be a Mazzer Mini E or Compak K10 (or similar).

As an aside I just found my manual and receipt for my Krups Novo 3000 ProCrema. It just turned 13 years! Original cost £99. Not a bad return. I hope 13 is not unlucky as I need it to hang in there a while longer while I save for a new machine post grinder.


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Whatever you get I'm sure you'll appreciate the huge improvement in coffee from using your own freshly ground beans. Let us know what you decided upon and be prepared to be very frustrated for the first week until you get the hang of your new toy


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

If height is an issue (and it was with me), it's worth remembering that a short hopper is available for the Mazzer, and it has a large enough throat to make use without any hopper viable.

Also worth remembering that the Mignon has a reputation for throwing the grounds around a bit!


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Buy a Mazzer,if you have the dosh just do it. You will not regret it. As for the too tall issue, try not to let that hold you back from buying the right grinder.

Compromise tends to lead to a degree of dissatisfaction and then you end up on another grinder search, I know, being on grinder number five which is the biggest and possibly baddest Mazzer around.


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

vintagecigarman said:


> If height is an issue (and it was with me), it's worth remembering that a short hopper is available for the Mazzer, and it has a large enough throat to make use without any hopper viable.
> 
> Also worth remembering that the Mignon has a reputation for throwing the grounds around a bit!


The short hopper does not help and the no hopper I did read was an option but just seemed a bit odd but worth considering.

I hear you DonRJ. I think the thing to do is go and have a play with both.

Also as for Mazzer then, Type A or Type B? I understand the difference and B has a certain engineering feel to it but the vast majority seem to be A


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

No experience of the B, but I like the A.

I have both buttons set to throw singles, but with different timings, and that makes switching between beans easier, as one or the other is often just right, with no further adjustment needed. I only actually brew double shots, which means pressing the button twice each time, but it's no real hardship, particularly as the portafilter sits neatly in the holder throughout, doesn't need any attention and frees up hands to do other things.

The third button is especially useful as it means that the grinder can be kept running during adjustments to the grind, but with minimum loss of coffee.


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

So a quick update. After a quick visit to Bella Barista I was able to see a Eureka Mignon in action and it would seem to tick all the boxes for me at this time so I came away with one 

Very easy grind adjust with also very easy to see and taste different results. Surprisingly little mess and quieter than I was expecting. I will not have time to play with it for a little while but will let you know when I do. I am on my way!


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

You visited Bella Barista and came away with only a grinder! On a serious note, congratulations on your new purchase.


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

Congratulations. Did you take some shades to protect your eyes from all the shiny machines?


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

Well time was tight but of course I had a quick look at all the lovely shiny machines. All very nice but also I had not realised quite how large the footprint of these machines is but I know they are cramming a lot in. I established it will likely be a dual boiler for me and I like the engineering of the E61 group head but I will need to take some careful measurements to see if I can really house such a machine. I also still need to take a good look at the Fracino Piccino.

One other thing for anything considering the Eureka Mignon. The Gloss Back finish is not very gloss. The Matt is very matt but there is not as much difference between them as you would expect. Red and Orange are very vibrant!


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