# £500 a realistic budget for a Rocket or similar HX machine?



## Jiiim (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi folks,

I'm looking to upgrade from my humble Krups to a proper E61 machine.

Is it realistic to be looking for a Rocket with a budget of around £500?

Cheers,

Jim


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

I think a Giotto went for £500 on here a while back, so its certainly possible .... and a mk1 vivi for £400


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The rocket in question was a mark 1 - newer rocket models 2nd hand and we'll looked after £500 is probably a little unrealistic. I'd be looking at holding £750-900

Plenty of other e61 tho - I'd be looking for seconds hand brewtus too ( but would need more than £500 again for a db )


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I'm inclined to agree with boots there. And you'll want a suitable grinder if you haven't already.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

There are other hx machines tho ( fracino ) that come within get mmmm your budget .


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## BertVanGoo (Nov 20, 2015)

I'm thinking of upgrading the Sage BE, so was thinking along the same line for budget, maybe a bit more for the right machine. Do many come on this site? I've only been on a few months and seen a couple sell.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

You will see machines come up pretty regular, as the folks on this forum tend to get bitten by the upgraditis bug on a pretty regular basis. From what I have seen, more machines come around April/May (many folks getting bonus at work at this time) and in January (as many will have gifted themselves a new machine for Xmas). Having said that they do come up regularly throughout the year.

Put a subscribe on the for sale thread and check it as often as possible. Good deals on machines don't tend to hang around. I've seen deals happen within minutes of the for sale post.

Buy a good grinder before the machine. Advice easy to give but difficult to follow, I know from personal experience. You will get more bang for your buck upgrading the grinder than the machine. A crap grinder gives you crap coffee even if you have a Londinium or La Marzocco.


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## Jiiim (Jan 5, 2016)

Thanks guys. Got a reasonable grinder I think: a Macap M4D.

Sounds like I might need to save for a little longer... Although I don't know how much longer I'll be able to tolerate the Krups!

What are your thoughts on going lower end new (Expobar Leva etc.) vs higher end second hand (Cellini, Brewtus etc)?

Jim


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## Jiiim (Jan 5, 2016)

Actually starting to wonder if the -- gulp -- Sage Dual Boiler might be the most appropriate machine for me. Much as I love the looks and build qualities of the E61 machines, there are features on the Sage I could see working well for me; such as the quick warm-up, scheduled power on, and auto power down. Plus the cleaning routine looks a doddle.

Do they come up used often? Any idea of price?

Still not ruling anything out though!

Jim


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

If you are going to buy a Sage product, buy a new one with as long a warranty as you can possibly find. The failure rate is a lot higher (usually electric or board problems) than with traditional machines.


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## Jiiim (Jan 5, 2016)

That probably rules it out then!

Cheers.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Auto start up is possible with most of machines, but you'll need a WeMo switch (or similar). But that adds an extra cost.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> If you are going to buy a Sage product, buy a new one with as long a warranty as you can possibly find. The failure rate is a lot higher (usually electric or board problems) than with traditional machines.


Any figures to support that?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

risky said:


> Any figures to support that?


Of course not, but if you have nothing better to do, trawl back through the threads and see how many Sage machines have failed or been swopped under warranty compared to the more traditional machines on here. You are not seriously suggesting Sage does not have a problem are you?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

How many have broken? Three?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

How many Rockets, Expobars etc have broken? 3 is a poor guess jeebsy. a couple of months ago there were 3 barista express machines all with the same steam wand failure


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Just pointing out that in the absence of reliable figures, saying "the failure rate is a lot higher" is conjecture.


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Bearing in mind the number of stockist (Lakeland, John Lewis, Debenhams, Steamer Trading, Selfridges, Harrods, Amazon, ao.com, + about 30 other indies), I wouldn't be surprised if the Sage DB is the bestselling high-end prosumer machine in the UK.

From my experience so far the after-sales care has been flawless. Any problems (in my case a dripping steam wand) and they will try and talk you through a basic fix and then send out an engineer who will either repair or replace on site. In fact, for every problem that has been raised on this forum, there is usually another comment praising the speed that the problem was resolved.

Of course, if you prefer to tinker away on things yourself then this is probably not the machine for you.


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## Jiiim (Jan 5, 2016)

But am I going to get that kind of care if I'm buying second hand?


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

If warranty is not transferrable - then no


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I would like to offer my own conjecture:

None of the classic European machines sell in anything like the numbers of the Sage machines with their Heston marketing machine. More machines on the street means more failures.


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## Jiiim (Jan 5, 2016)

I wonder what the out of warranty repair costs are like by comparison to the likes of Rocket?


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Give Sage a call and ask them


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> How many Rockets, Expobars etc have broken? 3 is a poor guess jeebsy. a couple of months ago there were 3 barista express machines all with the same steam wand failure


One Duetto


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Not many opportunities to pick up a Sage DB secondhand anyway, they're too good for most to want to sell


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## No big name! (Oct 25, 2012)

Whereabouts are you? I have a V2 Evo Giotto that I'll be selling soon. It'll be at the lower end of the price range for that model, but you'd have to stretch your budget a little bit...

NBN


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## Jiiim (Jan 5, 2016)

I'm in Glasgow. Please do keep me informed!


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## BertVanGoo (Nov 20, 2015)

I could be interested in this if Jiiim doesn't go for it


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## BertVanGoo (Nov 20, 2015)

@Jiiim have you had an luck in finding anything yet?


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## Jiiim (Jan 5, 2016)

BertVanGoo said:


> @Jiiim have you had an luck in finding anything yet?


Na, not yet. Just a waiting for the right thing to come up!


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## BertVanGoo (Nov 20, 2015)

I'm very impatient, but hopefully something will come up soon!


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## BertVanGoo (Nov 20, 2015)

No big name! said:


> Whereabouts are you? I have a V2 Evo Giotto that I'll be selling soon. It'll be at the lower end of the price range for that model, but you'd have to stretch your budget a little bit...
> 
> NBN


 @No big name! do you have any more details on the Giotto? I've seen a Cellini, but I prefer the body of the Giotto


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

I'm going to move this from the valuations area, as it is really for people who own equipment to get feedback on what it might be worth. I'll move this to the general machines area.

@Jiiim if you haven't already, I would put up a thread in the 'Wanted' area stating what you're looking for. You never know what members may have that they may consider selling.



jlarkin said:


> Not many opportunities to pick up a Sage DB secondhand anyway, they're too good for most to want to sell


Couldn't agree more with this. This is very telling indeed I feel.


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## scottgough (Feb 9, 2016)

I'll be selling my Rocket Giotto Evoluzione V2 very soon. Just under 2yrs old, bought from BB, receipt available, optional steel cup surround on top. Few day to day scratches on the drip tray, otherwise unmarked and in excellent condition. Will be looking for around £950


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## Jiiim (Jan 5, 2016)

@scottgough thanks for the heads up. Sounds like my perfect machine just a bit of a stretch budget wise I'm afraid.

Perhaps @BertVanGoo would be interested?


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## BertVanGoo (Nov 20, 2015)

Thanks @Jiiim

Price is a little high for me, but yes @scottgough I could be interested in that


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## scottgough (Feb 9, 2016)

BertVanGoo said:


> Thanks @Jiiim
> 
> Price is a little high for me, but yes @scottgough I could be interested in that


I'll post some pics and a sale advert tonight when I'm back from work, you can have a look and let me know what you think. Thanks


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## BertVanGoo (Nov 20, 2015)

Hi @Jiiim, the Cellini you sent me the link to on gumtree has been reduced to £850, but I think you could get him down to £750 or even £700 if you're really cheeky? I've been messaging him about it as I probably would have gone for it at that price, but I've gone for the Giotto instead as prefer the body.


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## Jiiim (Jan 5, 2016)

BertVanGoo said:


> Hi @Jiiim, the Cellini you sent me the link to on gumtree has been reduced to £850, but I think you could get him down to £750 or even £700 if you're really cheeky? I've been messaging him about it as I probably would have gone for it at that price, but I've gone for the Giotto instead as prefer the body.


Made an offer on that, but think I missed out. Never got back to me and the ads gone now.

Never mind, I'll continue looking!


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