# Climpson & Sons



## rajb (Sep 18, 2014)

Hello all,

its my first post here after lurking for a bit, so apologies if my etiquette is off.

i recently ordered a 6 month subscription from Climpson & Sons and ordered a bag of the La Esperanza Geisha. I tried Climpsons in Broadway Market a few times over the summer and thought it was very good. I loved the London Fields blend (I also bought a Kenya Kiangoi and a Finca Limon form Nicaragua - all nice). Incidentally, the baristas said they didnt like KeepCups as they didnt fit under their machines (apologies, cant remember what set up they have).

anyway, to get to the point, the bag of geisha that arrived had been roasted over 15 days ago. i was disappointed as i had never received a bag that old before when ordering (from HasBean, Workshop, Foundry, James, Artisan). so i emailed Climpsons and they immediately apologised and offered to send me another bag of single origin coffee but that was their last batch of geisha.

i thought that jolly good customer service (the chap sending the email had gone to the trouble of finding out why this had happened and explained in full). i was thinking of cancelling my subscription as i did not want to receive "old" bags but i am assured this wont be the case.

any thoughts? was i mad to be disappointed (wife certainly thinks so!) that it was 15 days old? anyone else have similar experiences? what did you do?

apologies if this is a boring/uncouth/undesirable topic, or in the wrong place.

the geisha is lovely if you like that sort of thing - the most perfumed coffee i have had, even compared to a HasBean Guji I am drinking along side, which i used to think was quite fruity/floral. but this is bright and clean (aeropress, 17g, about 7 clicks on porlex, 40 sec bloom, full chamber inverted, gentle stir at 1m 50s and slow plunge, paper filter, about 200g final drink - didnt weigh water in) on a level above anything i have tasted before. having just read the dark roast articles, this would certainly be a waste going there - and i think there has been some thought put into the roast profile to keep it where it is.

thanks

raj


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Welcome to the forum

I don't think any of us would be happy with 2 weeks old beans from a subscription....


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Depends on the bean. I get stuff roasted 2 days before and leave it 2 weeks all the time without issue


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Depends on the bean. I get stuff roasted 2 days before and leave it 2 weeks all the time without issue


OK everyone but Kidd....


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## rajb (Sep 18, 2014)

thank you for welcome, and responses...

@dfk41 - out of interest, do you taste the beans over the 2 weeks that you leave them to see how the taste/extraction varies with time from roast date? if you do - what are your findings? i havent kept notes, but things certainly change, especially if i keep a strict method (i only have a V60 and an aeropress, tho have just got a Clever Dripper).

ta

r


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Rajb, no. Bootsie knows fine well, as do many others on here that one of the most respected roasters, Londinium often used to advise on their bags, to rest from anything between 10 and 24 days. If you know the beans need to rest, then just leave them. Most freshly roasted beans will comfortably last a month in situ, ie not left exposed to the air. Some beans though, have a far shorter resting period. If in doubt, ask the roaster


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

For brewed I wouldn't rest for 10 days


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

A lot of the coffees we have had on DSOL have improved over time but that is for espresso only, for brewed coffee you can start on them a couple of days post roast


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Currently, for espresso, I'm on a 4 week old roast that has just got better day after day.

At its max now I think & will finish it by the weekend.


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

Personally I'd be happy to receive 2 week old coffee as I wouldn't have to wait for it to rest. But then the world has come to expect very fresh coffee in the post so maybe you would not be ready to use it yet. Either way, did it taste nice? That's the main thing.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

I second that. for espresso, two weeks from roast is actually perfect, meaning you can dive straight into it without having to wait for it to rest. I also doubt its a problem for brewed either so I don't really see the complaint has any merit


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

OK Cam its your preference and choice to rest a bean two weeks.

If a roaster is advertising freshly roaster beans then I don't think two weeks qualifies as that. Fairly simple. If they are advertising fresh roast to order then simply put it isn't that at all.....

From their subscription website

"A 250g or 500g bag of our freshly roasted coffee will be sent to your door at the start of every month. You have a choice of either filter or espresso roast: the espresso coffee will be a medium roast, and the filter option a light roast."

I don't want my beans delivered to me two weeks after roast.. My choice

If its delivered within roast date YOU can choose to rest it for two weeks

If ta delivered two weeks after then I can't choose to use it fresh ...

Given the amount people who single dose and have expensive air tight containers In an effort to use them at their peek , then I'm not sure sending beans two weeks past roast date marries with this ethos.

So not a problem for you Cam . Would be for me ...

Op isnt using for espresso and the roaster I suspect doesn't know if they are using it for espresso or brewed either...

So I'm with the OP I don't think its on....


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

fair enough I totally respect that


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Agree with boots on this, if you are two weeks past roast date upon receipt and say you only use 15g per day in 1 shot/brew then your looking at another 2 weeks on top.

I expect my coffee to be roasted within 2-3 days of receiving so i can choose the resting period.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> Agree with boots on this, if you are two weeks past roast date upon receipt and say you only use 15g per day in 1 shot/brew then your looking at another 2 weeks on top.
> 
> I expect my coffee to be roasted within 2-3 days of receiving so i can choose the resting period.


Froggy, if you get a coffee roasted yesterday with a 15day rest period, what is the difference? With a bean rested 15 days before you receive it (providing it will benefit from that time of course) you still have the same time to use it using your figures


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I don't rest my coffee 15 days...

Anyway there website says

" fresh roaster coffee "

2 weeks ain't that


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> I don't rest my coffee 15 days...
> 
> Anyway there website says
> 
> ...


Boots, you are talking bollocks.......there is no definition for what trading standards consider to define the word fresh. I know, because I have ben there, after having received anything but fresh beans from a roaster.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Froggy, if you get a coffee roasted yesterday with a 15day rest period, what is the difference? With a bean rested 15 days before you receive it (providing it will benefit from that time of course) you still have the same time to use it using your figures


Ok, me personally, i only rest 4-5 days from roasting date, i may even crack into it at day 2-3 for a cheeky sample, i would normally consume the beans by day 9-10, this is for Espresso.

For brewed i will crack into it as soon as i receive.

I once asked Hasbean how long i should rest some beans for that i have purchased from them, they advised to get stuck straight in and capture the freshness.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Boots, you are talking bollocks.......there is no definition for what trading standards consider to define the word fresh. I know, because I have ben there, after having received anything but fresh beans from a roaster.


Not talking legal definitions

Referring to how most people would interpret fresh roasted on here ....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

OK extreme example

do you want a roasters that roasts to order so you can decide what is best to use the beans , be that 3 days or 14 . or do you want a roaster that sends you beans if a shelf and they "decide " what is acceptable as fresh....


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

No brainer for me, out the roaster, in a bag, in the post, in my hands!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

If you are only brewing via FP, Aeropress, Pourover, Drip, cold brew.... You want it in your hands ASAP as you really want to hit those fresh notes.

If your only pulling Espresso, then you have a few more days, but that choice should be yours how long you rest.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Agree totally with froggystyles last post.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Not talking legal definitions
> 
> Referring to how most people would interpret fresh roasted on here ....


your mind must have been working overtime to come up with that drivel......!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> your mind must have been working overtime to come up with that drivel......!


Yawn....

(13 resting days to be drinkable)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> your mind must have been working overtime to come up with that drivel......!


I'm unsure why you have suddenly become An advocate of roasters not roasting to order.

Unless you are

Bored

Cant think of anything else to argue about

Can't find another grinder to buy just yet

Or all of the above ...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

boots, you quoted freshly roasted coffee. that makes everyone think of stuff being bagged whilst still warm and dispatched.......in your dreams mate! I am pointing out to you, that the word fresh and coffee should not go together because there is no legal definition of fresh......your vocabulary not mine......


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> I'm unsure why you have suddenly become An advocate of roasters not roasting to order.
> 
> Unless you are
> 
> ...


wrong on all counts boots........the op stated his beans were 15 days old when received. I merely pointed out, that that is not absolute disaster (though I suspect it was an oversight) and that some roasters actually recommend resting periods as long as that........you are the one who seems unable to grasp that.....you Eek Eek owners, I dunno.......


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Right bored then....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

How would you describe it then? Immediately bagged and posted after roasting coffee? Not quite as snappy


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am happy, as always! I have just had a wonderful cappuccino prepared on my fantastic grinder and here I am exchanging pleasantries with my short sighted friend......how could that be boring?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I am afraid ( actually not afraid) to say that the op asked about everything but espresso and although I am in the rested camp for espresso, the others are so right about brewed coffee, a two week old been us starting to get a little tired for the delicacy of say a syphon. I tend to agree that if we were to pole everyone here freak would be pretty much roasted or maybe a day old with the advantage of brewing that at any stage if maturity. ( cue a pole)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I am afraid ( actually not afraid) to say that the op asked about everything but espresso and although I am in the rested camp for espresso, the others are so right about brewed coffee, a two week old been us starting to get a little tired for the delicacy of say a syphon. I tend to agree that if we were to pole everyone here freak would be pretty much roasted or maybe a day old with the advantage of brewing that at any stage if maturity. ( cue a pole)


I'm half polish

Does that count


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Is half polish a little like brushed stainless steel??

Ian


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Aaah...fresh coffee...there's nothing like it...picked of the bush that day...

...then dried for up to 4 weeks, shipped halfway round the world, kept in a sack for weeks/months, roasted, sent to the customer, kept without opening for a week or two, then brewed.

...Aaah, yes, fresh...like a fresh prune, or fresh Bombay duck:exit:

I can see trading standard's problem.

I'd expect a roaster specialising freshly roasted coffee to normally despatch within a day or two of roasting, but if it was a bag left over from a small lot roasted 15 days ago, I'd give it a go first...complain if I didn't think it was representative, but in the knowledge that the lot has been & gone and I don't have a time machine.

If you're really bothered check roast date before you buy.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

You don't have a time machine.... Your not Dr who ?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> You don't have a time machine.... Your not Dr who ?


Apparently more of a "Gandalf" according to the kids on the local estate! :-l


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

As a roaster, there's a bit of a dilemma here. We roast to order. In practice, this means that say we are roasting on a Wednesday, we gather up all the orders on Wednesday morning, roast the coffee, pack it and send it same day, first class post. For me that's the only way.

The problem is that what if you ordered your coffee on the Thursday? You'll be waiting a week for the coffee to hit your doormat.

Then, it gets really tricky. In reality, we roast two or three times a week in order to keeps cafes, delis and whatever stocked up with fresh coffee. We don't advertise these dates as it'll often be arranged at short notice according to the needs of our wholesale customers.

Now, if you ordered on the Thursday. Would you want me to send out your coffee when I roast for a cafe the next day? OR would you want me to send out on the day that is advertised on the website (I.e because you've worked out when you need coffee, taking account of your preferred rest time etc etc. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Guess a week from bean roast date to them hitting the doormat is about as far as I would want to go.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

foundrycoffeeroasters.com said:


> As a roaster, there's a bit of a dilemma here. We roast to order. In practice, this means that say we are roasting on a Wednesday, we gather up all the orders on Wednesday morning, roast the coffee, pack it and send it same day, first class post. For me that's the only way.
> 
> The problem is that what if you ordered your coffee on the Thursday? You'll be waiting a week for the coffee to hit your doormat.
> 
> ...


There are plenty of roasters that have a " roast day" and communicate that on their site ( Extract I think do this ) and send out coffee based on this .

Don't have a problem with that if it's clearly stated .

I don't have a problem with 3-4 days either ( again some j of on a site is helpful as to the roasters practices and what I can " expect "


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

I think the subtleties of my point aren't being picked up here. Most likely because I haven't articulated well enough!

Example: I order some beans from x roasters. Their website says the next roast date is a week away. I order thinking 'that's fine, I've still got coffee left and it'll work out nicely as I'll have got through my current stock by the time the new coffee is rested etc'. Then the roaster sends it to me the next day as they roasted for a wholesale order. Still just as fresh but it's buggered up my plans as I now have too much coffee.

I'm wondering whether we should somehow ask people what their preferences are when they order.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Pm me ideas for a poll ill set one up


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

As long as the website tells me what to expect then I'm fine with that. At the end of the day I give roasters some room in expectations due to their size (I don't expect a roaster to roast every type of coffee every day as it probably won't work commercially)

As for the OP, I wouldn't be happy with 2 week old coffee although fair play to them for going to the trouble of telling you why this happened and giving you a replacement. You'd imagine all the subscription coffee will be roasted together so I'd assume it'll come much fresher


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## rajb (Sep 18, 2014)

Interesting responses! Sorry I've been away this weekend (and revisited Cafe 33 and Red Roaster in Brighton - Cafe 33 are setting up a small roastery out the back!).

to clarify some points:

1. The geisha was a bag I ordered separate from the subscription.

2. I am assured that the subscription bags are roasted fresh and sent out straight away

3. The website does not have roast dates on it, nor a roast day (I think)

4. Having offered me a choice of 2 single origin beans, both arrived in the post the next day. Their emails were pits courteous apologetic and explanatory.

5. The geisha was delicious as V60 (12-14g, 40 sec bloom with 30g, very slow pour to 2:30ish to 180-200mls, drip complete by 3mins or thereabouts. And as aeropress. It was floral and fruity and had delicious body with both juice and brightness. I love it. Great tastes from beginning to end and has a long mouthfeel.

i suppose as a (obsessive/eccentric) consumer, I am happy and lucky here. Lucky with the customer service and happy with my coffee.

i think prob more info so we can make better decisions is the way to go, but we prob have to bear in mind that we are not the majority of the consumers buying beans online? Or are we?

Interesting discussion. Tho I understand about resting beans, my thoughts were:

i'd like to choose the resting AND perhaps taste the beans while they were resting.

having said that Freeman says in the blue bottle book that the nel drip places in japan (chatei houtou et al) use older beans more than "fresh"...any experience on this? I haven't been to any Japanese coffee shops!

raj


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