# Niche - tell me it's worth it!



## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Hi Everyone

I've had the email saying that the new pre-order window for the Niche is opening up today at 9am, so I'm now itching ready with my credit card.

BUT - I have had a bit of a think overnight and I am wondering if it is really going to be worth it for me.

I have a new specialita at the moment, using the 'tube and puffer' method to single dose through it and it's not half bad (to my taste).

Workflow is a bit of a pain and slightly messy and it looks a bit odd on the counter (the ant powder puffer on top!!).

So my rationale for thinking of a Niche is thus;

1) Improved workflow as it's designed for single dose

2) Looks better on the counter (ie keeps wife happier)

3) Actual cost to change won't be that great, as I can sell my specialita with remainder of 2yr BB warranty for quite a decent price I'm sure

4) Easier grind adjustment / visualisation of grind adjustment

All of the above a practical things, but one other question - will it actually improve my coffee flavour / extractions?

Has anyone gone from a specialita to a niche or had both?

Thanks

Will.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

My Niche is my go to Grinder over my Clima pro and any other grinder I have had.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

For what's worth... Do it. You won't regret it, specially if you have the money.

if you don't like the Niche, you'll be able to sell it for the price you paid. If you do, as you say you'll be able to sell the Eureka.

there was a guy here who got the Niche recently and sold his Atom 75E in similar circumstances to yours. That tells me something.

will you get an improvement in taste? Quite likely. Single dosing the Mignon like this will not get the best flavours out because that grinder is designed to operate with beans on a hopper. The Niche on the other hand, is a single doser out of the box. That's a enough reason for me to buy it, and, I think that, for this alone, you won't regret your purchase. Never mind the rest (easy to keep clean, bigger burrs, consistency, etc, etc, etc).


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

itguy said:


> All of the above a practical things, but one other question - will it actually improve my coffee flavour / extractions?


 Don't underestimate the 'practical' things. I thought I didn't mind a hopper grinder's workflow annoyances and only cared about the coffee it produced, until I got to experience that grinding coffee doesn't need to be such a pain. We get used to everything, but if you single dose, if you want to use more than one bean, if you want to use different brew methods or try cupping - the Niche is a joy to use. I would not want to go back. The NZ is popular for a reason, even with some people who came from a grinder which was capable of making better coffee. Practical is important.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Doram said:


> Practical is important


 And, the same goes for hopper fed on demand: if single dose is not your thing, you are just happy to have the same beans every day and just change when the bag is over, and make four 18g coffees back to back, then a low retention hopper fed grinder might be a better option.

for me, minuscule retention - call it "zero" for those who still complain and are "shocked" to clean the Niche and find grinds in the chamber, and when they meticulously clean everything, every surface and scrape it all so no traces are left, and then decide to weigh it to prove s point... just to be disappointed and find something close to 0.3g - is the deal breaker. I can't stand wasting coffee (or bottled water), so the Niche for me cannot be beaten at that price point. The next level up in motorised single dosing is over 4x the cost of the Niche.

for me, if I could have a hopper fed grinder with minuscule retention and exact dosing (Baratza Sette comes to mind), which was reliable, durable and quiet (Baratza Sette leaves mind) that would be my choice. I'd drop the beans for the day in the hopper and just grind away.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Doram said:


> Don't underestimate the 'practical' things. I thought I didn't mind a hopper grinder's workflow annoyances and only cared about the coffee it produced, until I got to experience that grinding coffee doesn't need to be such a pain. We get used to everything, but if you single dose, if you want to use more than one bean, if you want to use different brew methods or try cupping - the Niche is a joy to use. I would not want to go back. The NZ is popular for a reason, even with some people who came from a grinder which was capable of making better coffee. Practical is important.


 This ^^^^^^


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## OpenSource (Jan 26, 2020)

I also love the maintenance workflow, it's super easy to clean and the whole build is super simple. I really hated to spend the whole morning trying to disassemble my previous grinder and possibly damage it in the reassemble!

Pour over in morning, espresso in the afternoon just with a few clicks away!

Finally the NFC disk improvement gave me cleaner tastes!


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## tonerei (Aug 3, 2017)

I have only had mine for about a month. I toyed with the ideal of getting one for about a year. The price I always felt was a bit high for what it appears to be. The Mazzer Major I was using with a hopper was fine for my needs. Workflow was fairly quick as I used a small hopper. I never bothered with single dosing as others in the family were using it also. Wondered was it being overly championed by a UK fanbois😀 and maybe it would turn out to be a BL Mini Metro! It isn't it is just cleverly designed and thought out.

From the moment I turned it on I was sold. It is everything that has been posted on myriad threads here. Very quiet, easy to adjust. No waste anymore and a joy to use if a tad slower because of having to measure out. Also suffers from static in the niche cup which is resolved with a stir of a cocktail stick. For single home use it is perfect. Like others who have posted here I will keep my Mazzer for the occasions when I need back to back coffees for visitors. Also I think it is worthwhile having the option to switch from flat to conical.


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

OK! That's it, I'm on the pre-order list now. Roll on February 2021!

Thanks for all the advice and observations.


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## JasonLovesRistretto (Nov 14, 2020)

Yes. It's worth it. Simple design. Handles multiple bean types. Quiet. Small footprint. Love it. Sold my Mazzer and Baratza and replaced with just this one Niche Zero.

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## JasonLovesRistretto (Nov 14, 2020)

Now I want to custom paint the niche zero. Give it some character.

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## JasonLovesRistretto (Nov 14, 2020)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201114/1533e377b1e904dcbda8699805653a37.jpg

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## JasonLovesRistretto (Nov 14, 2020)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201114/37602144ababb56f4cfc408ee230c884.jpg

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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Wow, those setups looks fantastic!


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Counterpoint - the only thing I care about is improvement in the cup and that's what has stopped me. The best I see is 'yes of course, but it's personal', or 'yes, hard to say how much though', or as MediumRoast Steam says above 'quite likely'. I'm probably going to get one out of boredom as I like to buy myself presents and am irresponsible with money (much to my girlfriend's chagrin), but also safe in the knowledge I'll be able to sell it on this forum within 4 minutes if need be!


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

CocoLoco said:


> Counterpoint - the only thing I care about is improvement in the cup and that's what has stopped me. The best I see is 'yes of course, but it's personal', or 'yes, hard to say how much though', or as MediumRoast Steam says above 'quite likely'. I'm probably going to get one out of boredom as I like to buy myself presents and am irresponsible with money (much to my girlfriend's chagrin), but also safe in the knowledge I'll be able to sell it on this forum within 4 minutes if need be!


 It will make you unique, just like the rest of us. 😉


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

CocoLoco said:


> Counterpoint - the only thing I care about is improvement in the cup and that's what has stopped me. The best I see is 'yes of course, but it's personal', or 'yes, hard to say how much though', or as MediumRoast Steam says above 'quite likely'. I'm probably going to get one out of boredom as I like to buy myself presents and am irresponsible with money (much to my girlfriend's chagrin), but also safe in the knowledge I'll be able to sell it on this forum within 4 minutes if need be!


 Buy a monolith ...how can they be anything bout better at that price . 
Anyone who tells you if will definitely make a difference isn't taking into the account we are all different , and experience things in different ways . There are no absolutes .

buy a niche for its functionality and work flow and hopefully you'll be surprised by its cup quality , or more likely you'll keep it as it's easy to use and makes good coffee ( not necessarily 30 percent Bette than the grinder you had ) .


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CocoLoco said:


> Counterpoint - the only thing I care about is improvement in the cup and that's what has stopped me. The best I see is 'yes of course, but it's personal', or 'yes, hard to say how much though', or as MediumRoast Steam says above 'quite likely'.


 There are no guarantees on this front, anywhere. It's not a real world reason for buying any grinder.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

MWJB said:


> There are no guarantees on this front, anywhere. It's not a real world reason for buying any grinder.


 Wanting more out of a bean, isn't a reason to get a better grinder? No difference in taste between a £50/100 grinder and a £3000 one? That would be the main reason for most people I would think, before size, noise, workflow etc, certainly those on the 'way up' (as oppose to those that have gone £3k grinder and come back).

All other factors being equal (and I appreciate that is it's own conversation), I think we have to concede there is a difference don't we? Am I missing some huge part of the puzzle? Whether one cares enough or is able to appreciate it is another story, but there must be a 'percentage difference' along the scale however hard that is to quantify. I just have find (like we all do), where price meets flavour return. For instance maybe £500 is too much for slightly better taste. Or I find yes, my regular bean tastes enough better and I'm happy with that outlay.


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## Jason11 (Oct 25, 2019)

CocoLoco said:


> Wanting more out of a bean, isn't a reason to get a better grinder? No difference in taste between a £50/100 grinder and a £3000 one? That would be the main reason for most people I would think, before size, noise, workflow etc, certainly those on the 'way up' (as oppose to those that have gone £3k grinder and come back). All other factors being equal (and I appreciate that is it's own conversation), I think we have to concede there is a difference don't we? Am I missing some huge part of the puzzle? Whether one cares enough or is able to appreciate it is another story, but there must be a 'percentage difference' along the scale however hard that is to quantify. I just have find (like we all do), where price meets flavour return. For instance maybe £500 is too much for slightly better taste. Or I find yes, my regular bean tastes enough better and I'm happy with that outlay.


I think @MWJB may be referring to the fact that tastes and flavours are very subjective therefore there's no guarantees that a more expensive grinder will mean a tastier cup for you. Yes it 'should' give a more even grind therefore more consistent flavours and make dialling in easier. Look at the flat v conical threads to see that some people may prefer a certain burr type flavour profile even from a cheaper grinder.


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## JasonLovesRistretto (Nov 14, 2020)

I did find that I had to play with the niche until the conical burrs resulted in a similar taste I used to have with the flat burrs. But, once that happened, I really had no reason to stick with the mazzer. As the niche was better for me in all the other areas. (Workflow, footprint, noise, multiple beans...same grinder, etc)

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CocoLoco said:


> Wanting more out of a bean, isn't a reason to get a better grinder? No difference in taste between a £50/100 grinder and a £3000 one? That would be the main reason for most people I would think, before size, noise, workflow etc, certainly those on the 'way up' (as oppose to those that have gone £3k grinder and come back).
> 
> All other factors being equal (and I appreciate that is it's own conversation), I think we have to concede there is a difference don't we? Am I missing some huge part of the puzzle? Whether one cares enough or is able to appreciate it is another story, but there must be a 'percentage difference' along the scale however hard that is to quantify. I just have find (like we all do), where price meets flavour return. For instance maybe £500 is too much for slightly better taste. Or I find yes, my regular bean tastes enough better and I'm happy with that outlay.


 Let's put this in perspective.

The grinder breaks up the beans. You decide the ratio & grind size. The bean/roast itself is the biggest factor in relative solubility for a given scenario (grinder/setting/ratio). So in terms of getting the most out of bean in an objective sense, you will get the highest tasty extraction from a grinder that has the finest grind, at a useable level of fines (so the extraction will be high, but the puck still permeable). There is no evidence that you need to spend £3000 to achieve this (Rao cites the Baratza Forte as being capable of this @ £1000-ish, others have suggested the Vario with Ditting burrs, there may be others), not all £3000 grinders will do it anyway, £3000 is a unit of currency not grind distribution. If you have £3000 to spend on a grinder, why are you even considering a Niche? Get some assurances from other people who have a range of £3000 grinders & can be objective about their pros & cons. You still need to dial in £3000 grinders, they still work by methodical adjustment, not magic or AI.

The highest achievable extractions do not taste good.

You can get tasty shots from £50-£100 grinders, but these will be lower extractions & maybe longer ratios (these will also be cheaper hand grinders & loads more faff). There is no study on EY vs taste preference encompassing a wide range of espresso grinders & grind distributions.

Let's say you have a grinder with a wider distribution, shots will taste good at lower EY's and average EY will be lower, but you can still dial in in 'tasty'. If you know you want super high extractions at any cost, you're in the wrong thread.

Electric espresso grinders start at more like £250+ and re available at many price points between that and £3000. The leap of £50/100 to £3000 is Hoffmann-esque in its absudity (re. £50 burr grinder video).

If there is a "percentage difference" it shouldn't be hard to quantify, if it exists. It should only be hard to quantify if it is dubious.

If you want your coffee to to taste better, buy less coffee on hunches & buy more of the origins & roasters that you know you enjoy. Buy a Niche (or any other grinder) because you like the look of it & it's workflow suits you. Then focus on getting the best out of it.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Good post, thanks. To me it pushes me in the don't bother upgrading yet direction if I'm reading you right.

I don't have £3k to spend on a grinder, I was using that as a scale that all other things being equal, you're going to get more out of a £3k ground shot than a £50 one. I know it's a ridiculous spectrum but it was an attempt to question when you said improvement in the cup was not a real world reason for upgrading. I'm not saying you can't get tasty shots out of a £100 grinder - I am with a BE grinder!

It may be best described as more expensive grinders have a 'higher ceiling' so you can be more precise and 'get more out of bean'.



MWJB said:


> If there is a "percentage difference" it shouldn't be hard to quantify, if it exists. It should only be hard to quantify if it is dubious.


 Again, leads me to believe there's a bit of 'Emperor's new clothes' about this stuff, as so often it seems hard to quantify. That may be a mis-reading of the forum attitudes on my part, coupled the fact it's quite complex and taste is just one factor, maybe not the main one as you suggest.



MWJB said:


> If you want your coffee to to taste better, buy less coffee on hunches & buy more of the origins & roasters that you know you enjoy.


 That sounds like excellent advice to those on the fence about upgrading. Take out the variance (which I force every week), specialise beans and get what you have working as well as possible.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

CocoLoco said:


> Good post, thanks. To me it pushes me in the don't bother upgrading yet direction if I'm reading you right.
> 
> I don't have £3k to spend on a grinder, I was using that as a scale that all other things being equal, you're going to get more out of a £3k ground shot than a £50 one. I know it's a ridiculous spectrum but it was an attempt to question when you said improvement in the cup was not a real world reason for upgrading. I'm not saying you can't get tasty shots out of a £100 grinder - I am with a BE grinder!
> 
> ...


 It's hard to quantify coz not all Baristas are equal and people like different things, perceive taste differently and have have different preferences .

if people, tell you they think grinder a is an improvement over grinder b in the cup , doesn't mean they are wrong or it's emperors new clothes effect , it just means there is no Guarantee you will have the same experience or opinion as them ,


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

CocoLoco said:


> I don't have £3k to spend on a grinder, I was using that as a scale that all other things being equal, you're going to get more out of a £3k ground shot than a £50 one. I know it's a ridiculous spectrum but it was an attempt to question when you said improvement in the cup was not a real world reason for upgrading. I'm not saying you can't get tasty shots out of a £100 grinder - I am with a BE grinder!


 Not had an experience with top grinders, but I am assuming that at the higher end the differences become smaller and smaller (and they can also be in things other than cup quality). At some point the curve will flatten, and spending more and more money will not directly result in better and better cup quality. Grinders are tools. At the lower end there are 'toys', that can't really do the job properly. But once you are in the 'proper tool' range, spending more and more on better tools will not endlessly improve the output (especially if one neglects the other aspects of the craft and expects the money to replace skill).

If we think about another field, say music, if your use a toy instrument, obviously it will limit you. But once you are in the proper instrument range, it becomes much more important to improve skill. Buying really expensive instruments will not make a difference unless it's in the hands of the top musicians, who know what to do with them. When you don't get the results you want, it is sometimes easier to assume all you need is more expensive equipment, but the equipment is not always the answer or the weakest link. (I don't know anything about music, and very little about grinders, so maybe I am completely wrong about both, lol).


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## Jason11 (Oct 25, 2019)

Doram said:


> Not had an experience with top grinders, but I am assuming that at the higher end the differences become smaller and smaller (and they can also be in things other than cup quality). At some point the curve will flatten, and spending more and more money will not directly result in better and better cup quality. Grinders are tools. At the lower end there are 'toys', that can't really do the job properly. But once you are in the 'proper tool' range, spending more and more on better tools will not endlessly improve the output (especially if one neglects the other aspects of the craft and expects the money to replace skill). If we think about another field, say music, if your use a toy instrument, obviously it will limit you. But once you are in the proper instrument range, it becomes much more important to improve skill. Buying really expensive instruments will not make a difference unless it's in the hands of the top musicians, who know what to do with them. When you don't get the results you want, it is sometimes easier to assume all you need is more expensive equipment, but the equipment is not always the answer or the weakest link. (I don't know anything about music, and very little about grinders, so maybe I am completely wrong about both, lol).


Yes very correct, the law of diminishing returns. More expensive grinders may not always mean better grinds too but better built with bigger motors etc. so they should last longer.

I've got a Ceado e92 and a Niche Zero and while I haven't done any in-depth testing between the 2 yet, as I want to make sure the NZ's burrs are fully seasoned first, I do prefer the Ceado but it just feels better to use ie. a higher quality grinder so is probably mostly a placebo effect.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Is "any of it" worth it?

We all buy stuff based on our own parameters.....

You can get a Nespresso pod machine from about £70 quid to about £650.....
You can get a Lavazza for about £40....

A Fisher & Paykel - Built in, Bean to Cup for about £2k...

I'm pretty sure some people are more than happy with the coffee produced from a £40 Lavazza....

Most (on here) would "destroy" the F&P saying the grinder was shite, no adjustment blah blah etc etc
And lets be honest (almost certainly) someone buying it would just chuck "supermarket" beans into it (albeit Fortnum&Masons or Harrods)

I run a Expobar (bought off here) which I consider "OK" - I bought it as a "serious" machine at the top end (price wise) that I would consider paying - but only because I come into a bit of a windfall (I wouldn't have got it otherwise it was sort of "free")

I run a SJ bought for about £100.. it does the job.... would I pay £500 for a Niche or a EK... well no... not unless I had another windfall... would I pay £1500-2k for an EK... no! Never!.... unless the windfall was Eurolottery Jackpot magnitude....

I have never had a Niche but I've had a few coffees from them....
a) they seem to grind coffee beans - so does my SJ
b) they look "smart" and neat - more kitchen friendly than my SJ
c) do they have an inherent "quality" similar to the SJ... well no SJs weigh about a ton and would survive being hit with a sledge hammer...


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## Zeak (Jun 12, 2017)

For me, coming from MC2 it's obviously a step up, and mostly because of:



Grind quality


Grind consistency


Shot taste


Noise reduction (BIG one)


Footprint reduction


Speed (somewhat)


Ability to switch beans/settings quick and easy


Ease of cleaning


Looks (questionable but yeah)


Other choices/options were a compromise to one or few the points above. I love this thing and don't regret it.


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

Zeak said:


> Grind quality
> 
> 
> Grind consistency
> ...


 Forgot no retention? I used to pick the MC2 after each grind, tilt it forward and bang it on the worktop/grind cup to try and get some of the ground out, then get the vacuum cleaner to the spout to hoover. There was still plenty left inside after that, getting stuck at the top of the spout and in every corner of the chamber (which you couldn't get to for cleaning, because you would loose the grind setting and it would take ages to find again).


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## Carlo (Dec 6, 2019)

I have a Monolith MC3 that costs over 4x the Niche. Prior to this I has the Niche. I can honestly say that in terms of performance the MC3 is only marginally better than the Niche. Has mentioned before, diminishing returns. In terms of build quality the Niche seemed good to me. Build quality is good too, not at MC3 level, but amazing for the price


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

Jason11 said:


> Yes very correct, the law of diminishing returns. More expensive grinders may not always mean better grinds too but better built with bigger motors etc. so they should last longer.
> I've got a Ceado e92 and a Niche Zero and while I haven't done any in-depth testing between the 2 yet, as I want to make sure the NZ's burrs are fully seasoned first, I do prefer the Ceado but it just feels better to use ie. a higher quality grinder so is probably mostly a placebo effect.


Just of curiosity, how will you know that the burrs are fully seasoned?

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## Jason11 (Oct 25, 2019)

profesor_historia said:


> Just of curiosity, how will you know that the burrs are fully seasoned?
> 
> Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


I'm hoping less static in the grinds is a sign.


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## Carlo (Dec 6, 2019)

profesor_historia said:


> Just of curiosity, how will you know that the burrs are fully seasoned?


 For me it was retention. After a while the retention gets very small or negligible, that meant consistency in-out


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## Carlo (Dec 6, 2019)

static was good from the beginning, no need to RDT. Got better too


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

I completely agree, for the last 10 years I think I had about 10 machines and about 13 grinders, all kind, from cheap Gaggia MD with old burrs to Compak E8, E10, Mazzer Major. I had several Super Jolly. Couldn't tell I noticed the difference between the Titan grinders. I keep some beans in the hopper and weight in the portafilter. I will get someday a Niche just out of curiosity as it seems the best domestic grinder, for the moment. I have another grinder for filter now so I don't need to change the settings. I am using a Compak K8 with new 83mm burrs, exceptionally machine. Not sure that a Niche would mean for me a change like night and day. I don't single dose.

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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

Drewster said:


> Is "any of it" worth it?
> We all buy stuff based on our own parameters.....
> You can get a Nespresso pod machine from about £70 quid to about £650.....
> You can get a Lavazza for about £40....
> ...


I completely agree, for the last 10 years I think I had about 10 machines and about 13 grinders, all kind, from cheap Gaggia MD with old burrs to Compak E8, E10, Mazzer Major. I had several Super Jolly. Couldn't tell I noticed the difference between the Titan grinders. I keep some beans in the hopper and weight in the portafilter. I will get someday a Niche just out of curiosity as it seems the best domestic grinder, for the moment. I have another grinder for filter now so I don't need to change the settings. I am using a Compak K8 with new 83mm burrs, exceptionally machine. Not sure that a Niche would mean for me a change like night and day. I don't single dose.

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## Carlo (Dec 6, 2019)

well I think if you don't single dose then you won't really appreciate the benefits of the Niche...


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

Carlo said:


> well I think if you don't single dose then you won't really appreciate the benefits of the Niche...


So I have to spend almost 600€only to single dose? I have to think about it then twice









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## Carlo (Dec 6, 2019)

profesor_historia said:


> So I have to spend almost 600€only to single dose? I have to think about it then twice
> 
> Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


 well yes ????, I think you won't really find much difference in taste. I see a premium in low retention and being able to switch coffees easily. Also keeping beans in the hopper is not great. Again, diminishing returns


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## JasonLovesRistretto (Nov 14, 2020)

Yes. Niche Zero makes sense if you single dose. I switched because my wife and kids and I drink different bean types. Its a dream if you switch beans. If not, I loved my mazzer electronic A.


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

JasonLovesRistretto said:


> Yes. Niche Zero makes sense if you single dose. I switched because my wife and kids and I drink different bean types. Its a dream if you switch beans. If not, I loved my mazzer electronic A.


I like to try new roasters, I think I tried about 80% from all roasters here in Spain, however don't change beans so often, I want to finish at least a 250gr package or more, until I dialed in and control the extraction with a specific coffee etc, I even thought that from now on buying 1 kg for espresso and another kg for filter, and every month trying new coffees. I am sure it's a very good grinder but maybe it's just I am to used to bargains, when you pay 70€ for a Mazzer Major or 150€ for a Compak E8 it's a kind of difficult to think of 600€ 

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## strebor (Oct 20, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> Counterpoint - the only thing I care about is improvement in the cup and that's what has stopped me. The best I see is 'yes of course, but it's personal', or 'yes, hard to say how much though', or as MediumRoast Steam says above 'quite likely'. I'm probably going to get one out of boredom as I like to buy myself presents and am irresponsible with money (much to my girlfriend's chagrin), but also safe in the knowledge I'll be able to sell it on this forum within 4 minutes if need be!


 I agree with the sentiment behind this post. I've had my Niche for a few months now, coming from the hopper grinder on my Sage Barista. I was disappointed that I didn't suddenly have a huge leap in taste. But I think that was more to do with unrealistic expectations. Through my online research, I'd come to the conclusion that it would vastly improve the taste.

That said, now I'm used to it, it's definitely better than my previous setup. The biggest thing for me is that I'm even more consistent at producing various types of coffee than I was before. I thought I was pretty consistent already, but now for example, a small adjustment on the Niche to give a finer grind size can give me a slightly longer extraction time compared to a considerably longer extraction time before. I guess this is where a jump in taste comes in - if your previous setup had big differences between various adjustments, then you lack the control to tweak your taste.



MWJB said:


> Let's put this in perspective.
> 
> The grinder breaks up the beans. You decide the ratio & grind size. The bean/roast itself is the biggest factor in relative solubility for a given scenario (grinder/setting/ratio). So in terms of getting the most out of bean in an objective sense, you will get the highest tasty extraction from a grinder that has the finest grind, at a useable level of fines (so the extraction will be high, but the puck still permeable). There is no evidence that you need to spend £3000 to achieve this (Rao cites the Baratza Forte as being capable of this @ £1000-ish, others have suggested the Vario with Ditting burrs, there may be others), not all £3000 grinders will do it anyway, £3000 is a unit of currency not grind distribution. If you have £3000 to spend on a grinder, why are you even considering a Niche? Get some assurances from other people who have a range of £3000 grinders & can be objective about their pros & cons. You still need to dial in £3000 grinders, they still work by methodical adjustment, not magic or AI.
> 
> ...


 This is a great post and I wish I knew it before getting the Niche. I might well still have bought it, but at least I'd have known more what I was letting myself in for.

TL;DR: if having a very well crafted bit of kit is important to you, then get it. But, if you're reasonably happy with what you have and aren't expecting a transformative leap from drab coffee to an explosion of fruits and nuts and chocolates then possibly steer clear.


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## olieolieolieolie (Nov 21, 2020)

Would personally recommend the niche - having gone from single dosing with a super jolly, it's much easier!


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

I have a question, which bothers me, it's stupid I know.

Why a Niche and not a 1zspresso JX Pro or K plus? Please don't kill me, I really want to know. I mean which are the pros and cons

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

profesor_historia said:


> I have a question, which bothers me, it's stupid I know.
> 
> Why a Niche and not a 1zspresso JX Pro or K plus? Please don't kill me, I really want to know. I mean which are the pros and cons
> 
> Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


 Because you have to hand crank those alternatives.

Pros - hand grinders are cheaper, quieter, portable & need no AC supply.

Cons - Effort, which isn't much of a con for brewed, can be a bind for espresso when making adjustments.

That's pretty much that.


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

MWJB said:


> Because you have to hand crank those alternatives.
> Pros - hand grinders are cheaper, quieter, portable & need no AC supply.
> Cons - Effort, which isn't much of a con for brewed, can be a bind for espresso when making adjustments.
> That's pretty much that.


Thanks, so a JX Pro for 179€ will do the job as the Niche which is 600€? I know it's working for espresso,@DavecUK did a very nice video.

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

profesor_historia said:


> Thanks, so a JX Pro for 179€ will do the job as the Niche which is 600€? I know it's working for espresso,@DavecUK did a very nice video.
> 
> Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


 Yes, but to be more correct, after weighing the dose in & out, you & the JX Pro will do the job 

It seems attractive at first glance, but after years of grinding by hand, I do appreciate the option of using electric grinders, especially for espresso.

But, if a hand grinder is all you have, well then you just get on with it.


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

MWJB said:


> Yes, but to be more correct, after weighing the dose in & out, you & the JX Pro will do the job
> It seems attractive at first glance, but after years of grinding by hand, I do appreciate the option of using electric grinders, especially for espresso.
> But, if a hand grinder is all you have, well then you just get on with it.


I don't have it yet but I think of buying it. I have a big Compak K8 for espresso but I want a good manual grinder just for the sake of trying one and of course, curiosity







. My question is genuine, I've sent the boom of buying the Niche so I am curious.

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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

profesor_historia said:


> Thanks, so a JX Pro for 179€ will do the job as the Niche which is 600€? I know it's working for espresso,@DavecUK did a very nice video.
> 
> Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


 I haven't had a JX Pro but have had a Lido E. The Lido had 48mm etzinger burrs I believe the same as the JX or at least very similar. Compared the Pharos the difference in shot was obvious. The Niche is a very very small step up from the Pharos/almost identical. I think the Niche benefits from a much more consistent and continuous spin speed. Anyway I don't think the smaller burr grinders are as good. The Lido E was perfectly adequate for a few years and if I were happy hand grinding I wouldn't have spent £500 on the Niche as an upgrade to it. The only reason I got the Niche as an upgrade from the Pharos was I got tired of hand grinding.

The quality of your shots from the Niche and the cheaper, small burr grinders that are made with plastic burr carriers like the MC2 and Sage should be night and day, I guess depending on what coffee you're putting in it/the roast/the ratios etc. There should still be an improvement coming from something like the JX pro but the bigger gain will be in ease of use.


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@profesor_historia - I have had a few grinders, Eureka Silenzio, SJ (I fixed/modded heavily after getting an eBay bargain), Aergrind, Niche, JX-pro and EK.

Agree with the others on diminishing returns the more you spend. I sold the Silenzio as I wanted to single dose, the SJ was a bit better but was too much of a faff with the puffing/brushing out and a pain for different beans. Both still made nice espresso but not the workflow I wanted.

The JX-Pro is competent, makes nice coffee and means when visiting my parents with my other half I can make fresh coffee for 4 adults without spending 15mins hand grinding. Doesn't handle very light roasts as well as a large burr electric, but you wouldn't expect it to for the money.

Niche is great for shorter ratio shots/pour over and gave me the workflow I wanted. EK was a WFH whim and has been a lot of messy fun, greater longer shots and lets me get more out of flow profiling. Both are a step up in terms of taste and getting more distinct flavours.

Unless you want to switch up your workflow or change beans a few times a day, you might not notice a huge difference with a Niche since you have an 83mm flat burr grinder already.


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## mit_hirani (Jun 23, 2020)

I'm in a similar situation, using a Kinu m47 Phoenix atm, only reason I'm looking at the Niche is a quicker workflow, not sure there will be much difference with the grind quality. Trying to hold out from ordering as long as I can.

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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

Thank you all for your answers, much appreciated

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## kevin (Sep 21, 2014)

I got a Niche a while ago, and really like it. I previously used a Eureka Zenith 65E, which has a hopper, and the efficiency of single-dosing is amazing. No more flushing the chute whenever I tweak the grind settings; no more wondering if I've got a mixture of grinds in the basket. The peace of mind alone, not to mention not wasting beans, is worth it. I haven't used other single-dosers (other than a hand grinder I guess), but it's fantastic. And quiet!

The Zenith is still hard at work, next to the kettle for aeropress usage. That's pretty ideal for it, I tweak it much less for aeropress and we use it several times each day so the hopper works well.


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

kevin said:


> I got a Niche a while ago, and _really_ like it. I previously used a Eureka Zenith 65E, which has a hopper, and the efficiency of single-dosing is amazing. No more flushing the chute whenever I tweak the grind settings; no more wondering if I've got a mixture of grinds in the basket. The peace of mind alone, not to mention not wasting beans, is worth it. I haven't used other single-dosers (other than a hand grinder I guess), but it's fantastic. And quiet!
> The Zenith is still hard at work, next to the kettle for aeropress usage. That's pretty ideal for it, I tweak it much less for aeropress and we use it several times each day so the hopper works well.


I know, but I was asking how is it compared with the JX Pro

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## kevin (Sep 21, 2014)

profesor_historia said:


> I know, but I was asking how is it compared with the JX Pro


 I guess I was answering the original question, apols if it caused confusion.

To yours, though, the closest I've got is the Made By Knock Feldgrind, which I do really like, but it's more of a travel grinder. I used to use it more before I had the NZ, mostly to avoid flushing the Zenith so much when switching between espresso and V60, but I use the NZ for that now. I also like being able to do other stuff (tare the scales, prep whatever the next step is) whilst the grinder is running. It's a small thing, but it works. Also I broke my shoulder a couple of years back, and although it's fully healed, it did make me appreciate electric motors on things like grinders and screwdrivers whilst my arm was in a sling...


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

Hmmmmm

And here was me thinking my next purchase would be an Atom 🤔


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

B-Roadie said:


> Hmmmmm
> 
> And here was me thinking my next purchase would be an Atom 🤔


 It depends on what you want?


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> It depends on what you want?


 Right now I'm using an older timed Mignon which I love but the clumping has become tiresome. The grounds seem excellent once they're declumped but it's a faff to get there even though I've got it as dialled as I can.

Also, since buying an Airscape jar I've really noticed how beans change when left in the hopper even for a short time let alone overnight. This has led me to filling the hopper with fewer and fewer beans and purging more and more to the point where single dosing will likely be less faff.

My Mignon is also bloody noisy. My brother in law has a Specialita and I was gobsmacked by how much quieter it is compared to my older model.

My main (not only) reservations are the conical burrs vs flat as I have no real experience of a quality conical. Second, I'll doubtless improve my espresso at least a tiny bit but will there actually be a discernible improvement in the cup worth dropping £500.

I am a Eureka fan for their design and build quality and thought of the Atom as the Helios is just too big. Likely a 65mm, the 75mm is getting a bit pricey for me.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@B-Roadie

I used to own a Mignon mkII - same as yours, and I always thought it was quiet. But I never seen an Specialità before...

the Niche is good for what you want, and will surely suit you well. I have one and I'm really happy with it. I'm in the same opinion as you really, and, if there was a flat burr grinder competing with the Niche, I'd be all over it.

rumour has it... that there will be a single dose 64mm flat burr grinder at a competitive price due soon. I'm keeping my eyes peeled. 👍


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

If you have clumps, the protocol is the same for both grinders: grind into a cup/pot/jug & shake the clumps out, then transfer to PF.


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @B-Roadie
> 
> I used to own a Mignon mkII - same as yours, and I always thought it was quiet. But I never seen an Specialità before...
> 
> ...


 I saw a post (possibly yours?) about that this evening. Can't find a sausage about it online even though products usually tend to leak all over the place in the coffee industry and are, IMO, launched poorly.

My only reservation on waiting is that "Q1" doesn't necessarily mean this coming year, especially for Eureka. 😂


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

B-Roadie said:


> I saw a post (possibly yours?) about that this evening. Can't find a sausage about it online even though products usually tend to leak all over the place in the coffee industry and are, IMO, launched poorly.
> 
> My only reservation on waiting is that "Q1" doesn't necessarily mean this coming year, especially for Eureka. 😂


 I agree. It's out when it's out. Until then... it's not out. 👍🤣


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

MWJB said:


> If you have clumps, the protocol is the same for both grinders: grind into a cup/pot/jug & shake the clumps out, then transfer to PF.


 With the older Mignon you get boulders rather than clumps. I'm grinding into a dose cup (of sorts) already and then a fair bit of WDT in the PF with a cocktail stick as well.

Combine that faff with the dosing on an ambiguous timer dial and it just takes too long. Although the dosing consistency has improved drastically since introducing what I call a "Mignon Hop". I rock the grinder back a touch and then forwards which dislodges about 1g of grounds from the chute after grinding.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> ...if there was a *flat burr grinder* competing with the Niche, I'd be all over it....


 *For filter/V60 this made for interesting viewing*.....for espresso it looks like the NZ has the edge. click me to see


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I agree. It's out when it's out. Until then... it's not out. 👍🤣


 Don't see much chat about the Zeus or Prometheus anymore. Any momentum they had post launch has been lost.

I just don't get it. Launch it when it's ready.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

B-Roadie said:


> With the older Mignon you get boulders rather than clumps.


 This can only be a coarser grind.


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

MWJB said:


> This can only be a coarser grind.


 Nope.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

B-Roadie said:


> Nope.


 That looks horrific.

I meant the "boulders" must be a coarser grind, fine grinds clump more.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

one lump or two ??


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

MWJB said:


> That looks horrific.
> 
> I meant the "boulders" must be a coarser grind, fine grinds clump more.


 Ah, sorry.

I get a great looking extractions with a naked PF after all the faff. Good looking puck, no geysers.

Cup taste is not in the same world as my go-to coffee shop puts out on the same beans.

In summary I want a noticeable improvement in the cup and less faffing. I thought a big-as-I-can-afford flat was the way to go. Maybe not.


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

B-Roadie said:


> Ah, sorry.
> 
> I get a great looking extractions with a naked PF after all the faff. Good looking puck, no geysers.
> 
> ...


 FWIW I tend to lean towards SO coffees from S. America or lighter espresso blends.

Im not a fan of dark roasts at the moment and I can't get most coffees of an African origin to work when brewed as espresso.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> *For filter/V60 this made for interesting viewing*.....for espresso it looks like the NZ has the edge. click me to see


 Meh. What does the Hoff know? 😂😉👍


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