# Niche arrived today - First impressions



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

My Niche Zero arrived this morning, here are my first thoughts:

- First thing I saw on the outer box was 'manufactured Dec 2020'. I thought the reason I had to pre-order 2 months in advance was so it could be manufactured, so I'm baffled with that.

- As mentioned elsewhere, the upper burr shifts around on top of its springs. Whether this corresponds to the burrs actually moving closer to each other in practice, I don't know. I guess it would rotate to a point and then stop but it seems like the burr carrier could be a better fit. I did see a post on Facebook where someone sold a machined metal carrier instead of plastic, so possibly something that could be improved.

- The power cord took a fair amount of effort to pull out, I was worried I was going to break it at one point. Not convinced it would squeeze back in should it need to but we shall see. The power cords on my mazzers are ridiculously long, so a nice feature at least.

- Compared to my Mazzer Mini, I wouldn't say it was quiet. I think I remembering seeing on one of Dave's videos that it was so quiet that you could forget it was running. If that's supposed to be the case then mine must have an issue because it's about as loud as my mini in operation.

- Whilst grinding, the dosing cup area vibrates fairly aggressively. More so than my mini. I can rest a dosing cup on the mini's forks whilst grinding and it would stay in place. If it shook as much as the niche it would definitely fall off. I suppose this is because the niche is much lighter in weight. I don't think the dosing cup would fall on the niche, I was just surprised at how unstable the cup looked. Just an observation.

- Retention on first grind was about 0.2g and that's with using the small suction cups people are recommending to clear the chute. Second time grinding I had 0.1g retention. I actually get less retention on my mini (basically zero) but I would say that from a workflow perspective, it's nice not to have to do any brushing. You do have to switch it on and off a few times you get the last of the grounds out. Wish I didn't have to do that but it's the same situation on the mini.

- I recalibrated before first use and was dialled in after 2 shots at setting 11 for a 16g dose of medium roast. Not much adjustment left but I suppose I've ground finer to accommodate the smaller dose.

- The taste was definitely different to the 58mm and 83mm flats I've been using on this coffee. Fuller tasting. The first shot was too coarse and whilst it was a little on the sour side (I did try a bigger ratio to compensate but was slightly off) it was still tasty, especially with milk. I did manage to get the flat burr grinders dialled in but it took much more trial and error to get there and I think the niche was tastier. Perhaps this coincides with the claims that conical burrs are well suited to medium to dark espresso? I got a good deal on a Mazzer Major, so I'll keep that around for some light roast comparisons in the near future.

- I'd read some comments that the dosing cup had a ridge inside that coffee gets trapped in but the cup has now been redesigned and there is no ridge. The inside bottom of the cup is also a dome shape, presumably to stop coffee getting stuck inside.

- No static issues and the grinds from the niche were noticeably more fluffy than from the Mazzers. I didn't think the mazzers were particularly clumpy until I saw the grinds from the niche. I don't know if this was because of the lack of clumping but purely by eye, the niche's grinds looked more even in size when inspected on my palm. Very unofficial claim.

- I'd agree with some comments regarding the shape of the area you pour the beans into. Even with a 16g dose, I think an overly eager pour would result in some beans sliding out. I'll reserve judgment fully until further testing.

- I don't want the power light there. I'll know there's no power if I try to switch it on and nothing happens.

- I kind of wish the adjustment ring wasn't so slippery. Don't get me wrong, it's massively better than the Mazzer adjustment ring, so just a minor niggle. Maybe I've just got particularly dry hands.

- Looks wise... hmmm. Still don't love it but I'll give it a chance. As mentioned before, it does fit into a kitchen and gf prefers it over the mazzers.

So there you go. From a UI perspective, I wasn't blown away. I think a used mazzer with a Daniel Wong mod would give you a similar experience at half the price. I envision retention will end up being similar between the two. That being said, that's for a used mazzer. A brand new mazzer with a SD kit would leave you spending the same amount for something that looks a bit 'hacky'.

The niche is producing better looking grinds and this particular coffee tastes better than it did from the mazzers. I'll continue testing for a few weeks and re-evaluate.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

- Retention wise, I guess all of the voids have been filled as input and output were basically the same today (with a few puffs of air through it)

- Still can't get over the difference in taste between the flat burrs, it's like a different coffee - in a good way!

- The coffee comes through very differently than from the Mazzers. I used to gauge if I'd got the grind right by how long first drops took to come through on pre-infusion but that is different with the niche. Just speculating that perhaps it's because there are less fines and a tighter distribution, the PI saturation happens faster. Need to experiment more with this. I think I might end up having to grind finer to match the mazzers.

- Whilst it's as loud as the Mazzer whilst grinding, it seems a bit slow and lower pitched, again in a pleasing way. Definitely prefer the sound.

- I poured the beans in a bit more violently into the niche and there were no spillages, so that clears that one up.

It's definitely growing on me! The grinding process is a bit faster than before and it is a please to use. It seems like a small thing but the toggle switch is a pleasure to use vs the chunky twist switch on the Mazzer. Of course, in an industrial setting the mazzer would get left switched so I understand why they did it.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@newdent I think it takes around 1 month to stop tapping, banging, puffing it and accept, what goes in comes out (or enough that you won't taste any issues). The burrs bed in nicely, you get used to the workflow.....then it simply becomes invisible. From time to time, if you ever use another grinder, you are reminded of how much of a pleasure it is to use.

It's why James said the same in his videos, and you notice he keeps using it.

I have one of these:










I have owned it for over 40 years...it was given to me...it's probably 50 years old. It's simple, easy to use, works and works well, I have never seen a reason to change it. I think they got it right 50 years ago and never needed to change it. I never think about it, it just sits in the draw....until I need it. Then it does it's job and goes back in the draw. Will the one below still be working in 50 years time, I doubt it, and I can't slip it in the draw. I have struggled with such devices and always realise just how much I like my old simple can opener.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

I found the Niche gave a fuller bodied, more 'in your face' taste compared to my flat burred E37s. Even the E92 (71mm conical) has a 'softer' taste profile than the NIche.

It's horses-for-courses. The work-flow on the Niche is so easy when single dosing which makes it hard to beat overall. Great if you chop and change beans a lot.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> @newdent I think it takes around 1 month to stop tapping, banging, puffing it and accept, what goes in comes out (or enough that you won't taste any issues). The burrs bed in nicely, you get used to the workflow.....then it simply becomes invisible. From time to time, if you ever use another grinder, you are reminded of how much of a pleasure it is to use.


 I'll probably always puff some air through but more because I'm a bit OCD than it actually making a difference to taste!


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

lake_m said:


> I found the Niche gave a fuller bodied, more 'in your face' taste compared to my flat burred E37s. Even the E92 (71mm conical) has a 'softer' taste profile than the NIche.
> 
> It's horses-for-courses. The work-flow on the Niche is so easy when single dosing which makes it hard to beat overall. Great if you chop and change beans a lot.


 'in your face' sort of describes it, I guess that's why those that prefer a lighter roast may struggle with it, perhaps subtle flavours can be lost? Though I've not tried a light roast on it, so that is speculation. It certainly produces a coffee that cuts through milk drinks nicely. My girlfriend, who was completely against me spending £500 on a grinder and has no reason to be biased says she's enjoyed her coffee more the past few days since using the niche and that's after previously saying she didn't particularly like the bean we're using (we'd only been using it for about 4 days prior). Anyway, I've got a new bean arriving today, again traditional medium to dark roast that we have had a lot in the past, so interested to see what the niche produces.


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## hotCUPPA (Sep 24, 2019)

newdent said:


> - Compared to my Mazzer Mini, I wouldn't say it was quiet. I think I remembering seeing on one of Dave's videos that it was so quiet that you could forget it was running. If that's supposed to be the case then mine must have an issue because it's about as loud as my mini in operation.


 Is this still the same or has it quieten down?


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

hotCUPPA said:


> Is this still the same or has it quieten down?


 Still the same, do you think there's an issue? I've read a fair few accounts of people saying they've accidentally left theirs running and there's absolutely no way I could do that. They are different sounds but it's definitely as loud as the mini. Edited to say, the mini is pretty quiet though. I also have a mazzer major, which is massively louder than the other two.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

Thanks for your up-to-date impressions. I'm the one who is thinking to get Solo, Niche or wait the Eureka Single Doser (using Kinu phoenix at the moment). Because I'm located in Ireland price difference is noticeable.

@lake_m have you compared Niche vs your flat burrs with a light roasts? I drink mainly light or medium roasts, and most of the time milk drink , but enjoy the light roasts as pure espresso (70/30 I would say).


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

@newdent Thanks, appreciate the write up, interesting stuff. I have the second hand Daniel Wong'd Mazzer (83mm flat) so very interested in your comparisons there. I have no plans to get a Niche atm but down the line, to change up, I may do, so very interested in the thoughts of someone that has experience of both.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I got rid of a Mythos Clima Pro when I decided to keep the Niche. There were many reasons why. Lockdown had just started and the flow of guests dried up. making multiple coffees the workflow on the Mythos was just so easy but, you really have no idea how much coffee you are grinding. That did not matter to me and the retention is very low due to the burrs being mounted at an angle. I kept the Niche having owned one since launch.

Obviously conical burrs give a different profile and flavour to flat burrs, and for some, that is the most important factor. It would be interesting to hear from Niche owners who like lighter coffee if they feel the Niche satisfies them. The Niche beat the Clima Pro for me, with medium/plus roasted beans but there was not that much in it. I now accept the workflow required and it is hardly onerous!


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

ting_tang said:


> Thanks for your up-to-date impressions. I'm the one who is thinking to get Solo, Niche or wait the Eureka Single Doser (using Kinu phoenix at the moment). Because I'm located in Ireland price difference is noticeable.
> 
> @lake_m have you compared Niche vs your flat burrs with a light roasts? I drink mainly light or medium roasts, and most of the time milk drink , but enjoy the light roasts as pure espresso (70/30 I would say).


 I enjoy medium/dark roasts so I don't have anything useful to say on light roasts unfortunately. I was given a bag of an Ethiopian single origin light roast which I had a play with on the NIche, but thought it was best as a V60. I would have wasted most of it with the E37S trying to get it dialed in. It seems that to get the best from the lighter stuff a well aligned large flat burr is the preferred choice generally, but I can't speak from experience. With medium /+ it's down to personal preference. With my current Black Cat I prefer the flavour profile from the E37S and it's a really lazy workflow.


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## 3888 (Oct 20, 2012)

I received my Niche yesterday. I need to order some beans so I can test properly but I did think that it was pretty quiet, I suppose it might sound a bit louder when grinding. This being my first grinder it's all a bit new to me. I just looked at the box again and mine also was a December build, don't quite understand that one. Still happy with my purchase.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Probably been in a shipping container on the slow boat from China for the past 6 months.


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

One thing I would say is that it is a good idea to run 1 or 2 beans through when making an extreme change in grind size to mitigate retention/exchange. Each morning I do a couple of espresso shots and then a big 02 V60. Pic below shows the retained espresso fine grind when grinding for filter (1 full turn and 10 dots coarser) and if a couple of beans aren't run through when going back to espresso fine, the first shot is an apparent gusher. No big deal but something worth considering for those of you who are using the grinder for manual brew and espresso.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Rob1 said:


> Probably been in a shipping container on the slow boat from China for the past 6 months.







Bet Dean did the labels...


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## hotCUPPA (Sep 24, 2019)

@*newdent *I don't have a Niche as I never liked the looks, but I'm buying a grinder as a gift and they want something small and quiet and the Niche may fit the bill, with that I'm curious to know how quiet it is, please report back. Cheers


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Just a quick catch up, made a few coffees with my new beans, a bean I've had many times before which is a medium/dark roast and blimey, again the niche really makes the beans punchy. It's a strong coffee anyway but for me, there's no way I can drink it as pure espresso anymore, so have had to add milk. It's really tasty coffee, probably tastier than before but really strong tasting. The niche seems to produce coffee that's lighting up my entire tongue, whereas the flat burrs seemed to be more sided to highlighting acidity, no matter how hard I tried to tweak the brew parameters.

I think the way forward will be to buy beans more on the medium or light side of medium to counteract this tendency to make the coffee taste stronger. Not a problem as I have no allegiance to any particular bean at this point. I've also reduced my pre-infusion to only a few seconds, the medium+ roast just don't seem to need much PI from the niche, they can end up having bitterness even with reasonably short brew times.

I'd be up for doing some light roast tests of Niche vs Major (83mm flats) but can someone experienced with light roasts give me some recommendations as I've not drank them much. I'm brewing on a robot, so temperature management may be a bit finicky for light roast but at least any temperature issues will be the same for both. Will aiming for similar pour times from both grinders be a fair comparison or will that unlikely be the case?


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

I'll attempt to upload a niche vs mini sound test now... obviously the sound will be slightly different in practice but you can at least compare directly.

/monthly_2021_07/1260372019_Nichesound.mp4.13baff6b851601c16b5a168cca2acb40.mp4" type="video/mp4">
View attachment 1260372019_Nichesound.mp4


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

View attachment 1177233999_Minisound.mp4


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

When grinding beans they sound very different....having owned both grinders. The Niche is not as "harsh" when grinding. Mazzers, are very quiet when grinding nothing.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> When grinding beans they sound very different....having owned both grinders. The Niche is not as "harsh" when grinding. Mazzers, are very quiet when grinding nothing.


 I agree that the niche has a more pleasant sound to it whilst grinding, a low grumble vs a frantic smashing of beans.

I am however, amazed of how many accounts I've read of people not realising they've left the niche running with claims to its quietness. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

newdent said:


> I am however, amazed of how many accounts I've read of people not realising they've left the niche running with claims to its quietness. 🤷🏻‍♂️


 Well there have not been many....one person was over 90. Some people may have music running...I agree though, I would know if it was running.


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

The Niche is quieter than the Sage grinders (stand-alone or built in) and sounds relatively pleasant when grinding. I wouldn't call it quiet though. The Eureka Mignon Specialita is a quiet grinder.


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## harrydog (Apr 28, 2021)

Am I alone in not opening the lid and pouring 18grams of beans all over the counter? 🤭


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

harrydog said:


> Am I alone in not opening the lid and pouring 18grams of beans all over the counter? 🤭


 I have forgotten the grind cup before, but never forgotten top open the lid.....yet!


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I have forgotten the grind cup before, but never forgotten top open the lid.....yet!


 Forgetting the grind cup is a right of passage 😆


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## facboy (Dec 13, 2019)

what about pouring the ground coffee back into the top again?


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## ratty (Sep 22, 2019)

Not as bad but forgetting to change the setting back to espresso from French press.

Done this a couple of times and usually scoop what I can get out easily by hand (before grinding!) and grind the rest usually around 5g waste.


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## Ando (Jan 11, 2021)

It took me less than a week to grind coffee all over kitchen surface. I later found the grind cup in the fridge next to where the milk is!


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## harrydog (Apr 28, 2021)

Am I wrong to grind into the portafilter and not into the cup? Seems to an extra step that is unnecessary unless I am missing something?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@harrydog By grinding into the cup, the placing onto the portafilter and subsequent inversion helps mix things up...less static too. Some people, do like to grind into the portafilter (using a portafilter ring) though.


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## harrydog (Apr 28, 2021)

Ah, thanks. I was/am using a funnel ring thing. I will try both ways and see if I can tell the difference.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

harrydog said:


> Am I wrong to grind into the portafilter and not into the cup? Seems to an extra step that is unnecessary unless I am missing something?


 I grind straight into the basket of my cafelat robot. I still give the grinds a stir in the basket prior to tamping though. Not had any issues with channelling. I only use the cup for filter coffee.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

I've now gone through nearly 1kg of coffee since getting the niche (lots of free coffee for mates both espresso and filter). It's been a pleasure to swap back and forth between espresso and filter settings, this wasn't the case on the mazzers. Friends seem to like using it, few comments saying it was a pleasant sound whilst grinding. One thought it was a bean to cup machine 😆

Mostly it's been an enjoyable experience. I have had a stray water jet or two during a few of my shots, which is new to this grinder, so perhaps a bit more attention to prep required. It's very rare though and I do grind straight into the basket and do only a few seconds of wdt. I'll keep an eye on this.

I'll echo a comment I've read elsewhere, the area where the grind settings are displayed should be closed off from the grinding area because it very quickly gets coated with tiny fragments of coffee. It's not the biggest of deals but it seems like a bit of a 'schoolboy error'. A minor redesign of the lid could prevent it happening or so it seems...


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## Ian S (Oct 3, 2014)

I quietened my Niche by standing it on four Sorbothane feet*. Drastic cessation of 'boom' and rumble from the work top.

It does vibrate a lot for such a slow turning motor a and a fully curved cast alu body with no flat or thin panels to resonate.

A couple of screws have recently fallen out, I heard them rattle when I last moved it. I think it moved just as much with them in.

I plan to coat all internal surfaces with that 4mm 'soundcoat' damping and hear if that tames it. And maybe stuff in there some open cell high density foam.

Does the motor get warm and need to radiate off to the alu body?

Maybe the motor needs taking out and somehow balancing for rotational weight so it spins evenly, like I had done with a previous car engine.

I also fitted some foam tape between the lid magnet and where it 'slams', again a drastic reduction in an annoying noise that should never have been there.

It's a fairly expensive grinder to have to immediately modify in a variety of, mostly very basic, ways.

Many simple design shortfalls that have still not been addressed by NZ.

* 'Pucks' from michell-engineering.co.uk Seem to be discontinued.


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## crazyp (Mar 13, 2021)

lake_m said:


> Forgetting the grind cup is a right of passage 😆


 Thank god for this - I thought this was just me.

The odd thing is that it kind of happened in slow motion. I could see this mountain of coffee collecting on the wood plate and all I could think was "Hmm....there's something different about this grind today....."🤪


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Hmmm, stray jet of water in one of my shots again this morning.

Coffee prep hasn't changed and had no issues with the Mazzer. I think the issue is new to this bag of coffee though. Was only roasted a few weeks ago but the bag was left open for an entire day over the weekend. Think this is just an issue caused by the coffee going stale? New bag on the way today, so will see if I get issues with fresher coffee.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

newdent said:


> Hmmm, stray jet of water in one of my shots again this morning.
> 
> Coffee prep hasn't changed and had no issues with the Mazzer. I think the issue is new to this bag of coffee though. Was only roasted a few weeks ago but the bag was left open for an entire day over the weekend. Think this is just an issue caused by the coffee going stale? New bag on the way today, so will see if I get issues with fresher coffee.


 Can you not grind any finer? I'm not sure how this event can be described as a grinder 'issue'?


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

MWJB said:


> Can you not grind any finer? I'm not sure how this event can be described as a grinder 'issue'?


 I have tweaked the grind down a bit finer but the coffee has a hint of bitterness to it, so don't want the extraction to slow too much. Guess I could change the ratio to suit.

Puck is saturating quite quickly on pre-infusion, so could be that the coffee has gone a bit stale. Will have a play with the parameters. Thanks.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@newdent It is your shot prep. It cannot be anything else. I have not read this thread from the start but I suspect you re over thinking things. I give you my word, Iweigh beans in to my Niche, grind them, stick a dosing ring onto the pf, put the grinds in, shake the pf whilst the ring is attached still from side to side, Chuck the ring, tamp and pull and I have not had a spritzer in years.

If I did not know better, I would hone in on your claims a bit more. You write as an inexperienced person, but then let the odd thing slip. You ask questions which you know lead down a rabbit hole matey. My thoughts would be, put the Mazzer into a cupboard for a month. Learn to use your Niche in that period of time and if you still find fault or do not love it, get rid. The taste your two grinders will give you ought to be very different and it is that which will drive you towards which one is better.

You also need to come up with a good rotation system and storage for your beans


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

newdent said:


> I have tweaked the grind down a bit finer but the coffee has a hint of bitterness to it, so don't want the extraction to slow too much. Guess I could change the ratio to suit.


 If this is the first hint of bitterness, you might be able to lose it by going finer still, or as you say, shorten the ratio a tad. You often get a bit of dryness just before you get into the most balanced extractions.

Over-extraction is more than a hint, it's a totally dominating, smokey dryness, if you just get it in the last sip after an otherwise delicious cup, it's not too bad.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Thanks for the reply, I definitely need a better system for storing my beans, will probably get an airscape today. Could you explain this part below please as I don't see what you're alluding to:



dfk41 said:


> If I did not know better, I would hone in on your claims a bit more. You write as an inexperienced person, but then let the odd thing slip. You ask questions which you know lead down a rabbit hole matey.


 EDIT; I just re-read my post and I definitely said I thought the issue was likely the beans and not the niche, I only mentioned here in case anyone else had similar issues swapping to the niche. The only two new variables were the niche and the fact that I'd not particularly stored these beans well over the long weekend. The bag had been left open completely for 24 hours and then only sporadically sealed apart from that (my friends had free reign with the niche and coffee). I just wondered if 3 days of that process was enough for the beans to go stale or if it was a niche issue. To be fair, the niche is still new and the burrs could well still be seasoning.

I'm just trying to leave an objective account of swapping from my mazzer mini (now sold, so no cupboard required) to the niche. I'm not a niche fanboy, or a mazzer fanboy I just want the best single dose grinder setup I can for =<£500. I've mentioned both good and bad for both grinders but for the most part, I'm enjoying the workflow with the niche, so not trying to knock it at all. Just adding observations as and when I notice them.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

MWJB said:


> If this is the first hint of bitterness, you might be able to lose it by going finer still, or as you say, shorten the ratio a tad. You often get a bit of dryness just before you get into the most balanced extractions.
> 
> Over-extraction is more than a hint, it's a totally dominating, smokey dryness, if you just get it in the last sip after an otherwise delicious cup, it's not too bad.


 Interesting, thanks for the insight. I don't particularly like this bean, so happy to waste a few cups experimenting and learning.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Out of all the grinders I've previously owned and those I still own, the Niche is the most forgiving in terms of shot prep (unless you are using a 15g VST 😏). You don't really need to be too fussy.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

lake_m said:


> Out of all the grinders I've previously owned and those I still own, the Niche is the most forgiving in terms of shot prep (unless you are using a 15g VST 😏). You don't really need to be too fussy.


 To add to that, the cafelat robot basket seems to be really forgiving too, which is why I was concerned enough to mention it here. I've had the robot 2 months and never had a spritz or channel before, even when pressing out the excess water after the shot.

I'll just assume the beans are a bit off for now and only mention it on here again if it persists.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@newdent Apologies if I came across a bit harsh. What I should have said, was I read your original first post and it left me scratching my head a little. It was certainly comprehensive and lengthy and I wondered just how much you could really have learnt with the relatively small amount of coffee you had put through it. Niche, like most grinders, benefit from running between 5 and 10 kilos of beans through them to allow the new burrs to settle down. By that, I mean they arrive with little burrs on them, perhaps not visible to the naked eye, but they really do need to be run in. Until they are run in, you cannot really compare it to another grinder, especially if that one is run in.

If you have a local roaster or next time you order beans, ask if they have any waste that you can use to season burrs. That way, you will get your Niche to ultimate status more quickly than just grinding your daily need. When you have reached that level, then the fun begins and you are comparing like with like.

Plenty of Niche users on here have had and own alongside, many other grinders so you will get a varied response to your questions matey, not just happy clappers!


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

dfk41 said:


> @newdent Apologies if I came across a bit harsh. What I should have said, was I read your original first post and it left me scratching my head a little. It was certainly comprehensive and lengthy and I wondered just how much you could really have learnt with the relatively small amount of coffee you had put through it. Niche, like most grinders, benefit from running between 5 and 10 kilos of beans through them to allow the new burrs to settle down. By that, I mean they arrive with little burrs on them, perhaps not visible to the naked eye, but they really do need to be run in. Until they are run in, you cannot really compare it to another grinder, especially if that one is run in.
> 
> If you have a local roaster or next time you order beans, ask if they have any waste that you can use to season burrs. That way, you will get your Niche to ultimate status more quickly than just grinding your daily need. When you have reached that level, then the fun begins and you are comparing like with like.
> 
> Plenty of Niche users on here have had and own alongside, many other grinders so you will get a varied response to your questions matey, not just happy clappers!


 I just re-read my first post and I think they are all fair observations regarding first impressions and first use. Obviously, I appreciate that the burrs are new and they certainly weren't new on my mazzer, so I will reserve judgement on long term grind performance until they've had a lot of coffee through them. I've run about 1kg through so far (not bad for a week of ownership!).

I've only been making espresso for the last 4 months and have already had a Mazzer mini, mazzer super jolly, mazzer major, Eureka mignon and now the niche. I've used a fair few grinders now and know what things to look out for. That might give the impression I know more than I'm letting on but I'm most certainly a newbie to making coffee and have masses to learn imo.

The mazzers were used but the mignon was new and was also prone to the odd spritz. I put this down to inferior burrs but perhaps these burrs also needed seasoning, similar to the niche now.

I'll ask another local roaster but the two roasters I did ask weren't able to help out with any beans.

On a separate note, I've found that the bottom of the doser cup holds onto a fair bit of grinds. I hadn't used it up to now as I've been dosing straight into my basket but I used it for filter over the weekend and it was an issue. I'll try giving it a side to side shake next time and see if that helps.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@newdent If grinds stick in the doser cup, a sharp tap onto the counter top usually dislodges them. Do you use water at all? Some beans do carry more static than others but there u=is usually a work around, somewhere. If you have a look through our own forum sponsors bean deals and order some at a discount, I am sure they will have some old crap lying around!


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## Denis S (Jul 31, 2020)

newdent said:


> I'll attempt to upload a niche vs mini sound test now... obviously the sound will be slightly different in practice but you can at least compare directly.
> 
> View attachment 58503


 So you have a reference:


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

> 3 minutes ago, Denis S said:
> 
> So you have a reference:


 Interesting! How old is your niche? I'd say yours is rotating noticeably faster than mine.


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## Denis S (Jul 31, 2020)

2018 UK made, was cleaned, stripped and greased the bearings. I do not have it anymore.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Denis S said:


> 2018 UK made, was cleaned, stripped and greased the bearings. I do not have it anymore.


 I see, perhaps they've tweaked the planetary gearbox since then. Mine's definitely rotating slower than your vid. A good thing I suppose. I just let it grind whilst I'm doing other things so slower is fine with me!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@newdent Gearbox is the same, never changed...voltage will affect speed though. Motors are custom wound for different regions and if the voltage is slightly higher/lower than expected the speed will change.


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## Ian S (Oct 3, 2014)

@DavecUK

Hi Dave, was it your good self who wrapped some tape around your Niche upper burr to centralise it? Did a video or guide?

They've been talking about it on the Facebook group and I tried to buy some sintered Teflon tape but it's not easily available.

Is that what you used?

I found some Kapton tape at CPC components, would that do, possibly not as low friction but is 0.05mm thick.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I need to checkout the talks on the FB group again&#8230; centralising the upper burrs? Seems very strange to me!

edit: do you happen to have a link to the post?


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## Ian S (Oct 3, 2014)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I need to checkout the talks on the FB group again&#8230; centralising the upper burrs? Seems very strange to me!
> 
> edit: do you happen to have a link to the post?


 It's not new, I've forgotten the when but maybe a year ago it's was being done and discussed here at coffeeforums.co.uk.

The discovery was made the there is play with the upper burr and the sides and reducing that might provide to some discerning users a small improvement in flavour / consistency, and also there are only two tabs with springs whereas Mazzer used three, the Niche burr moves side to side. A cost saving?

Also that the plastic ring that the springs push on, at least some are deformed and wobble. In Taiwan they've been making stainless steel replacements and tasting the difference. We'd 'all' have them by now but Taiwan has sold out and anyway it's not easy for us to buy from their version of eBay. Someone in the USA is trying to get them made and I might visit some CNC places near me to see if they can make it for price I can afford.


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## Ian S (Oct 3, 2014)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> do you happen to have a link to the post?


 I'll see what I can do  Facebook is on my phone and coffee forum is on my PC.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Ian S said:


> It's not new, I've forgotten the when but maybe a year ago it's was being done and discussed here at coffeeforums.co.uk.
> 
> The discovery was made the there is play with the upper burr and the sides and reducing that might provide to some discerning users a small improvement in flavour / consistency, and also there are only two tabs with springs whereas Mazzer used three, the Niche burr moves side to side. A cost saving?
> 
> Also that the plastic ring that the springs push on, at least some are deformed and wobble. In Taiwan they've been making stainless steel replacements and tasting the difference. We'd 'all' have them by now but Taiwan has sold out and anyway it's not easy for us to buy from their version of eBay. Someone in the USA is trying to get them made and I might visit some CNC places near me to see if they can make it for price I can afford.


 It is curious that the upper burr carrier only has two points of contact instead of 3 like most others I've seen. You'd think that it would allow rotation at those two points. Plus the plastic carrier isn't a particularly good fit into the body of the grinder. If you quickly switch between finer and coarser settings you see the upper carrier shifting around because of this.

If the machined parts were relatively cheap if consider replacing the plastic carrier but all the machined versions I've seen so far look equally poor in fit. Presumably they're just flatter than the plastic carrier.


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## Ian S (Oct 3, 2014)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/NicheZeroOwners/permalink/933182577255243/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/NicheZeroOwners/permalink/926264964613671/


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks!

Yeah, same guy who made the aluminium upper burr carrier I think?

thanks for the links. First time I came across the PTFE thing.


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## facboy (Dec 13, 2019)

everytime i clean my niche i do notice some black dust on the burr edges where it contacts the housing. not sure about that tape though, is it food safe?


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

facboy said:


> everytime i clean my niche i do notice some black dust on the burr edges where it contacts the housing. not sure about that tape though, is it food safe?


 You can use ptfe to seal water pipe fittings so I'd assume it's food safe.


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## facboy (Dec 13, 2019)

newdent said:


> You can use ptfe to seal water pipe fittings so I'd assume it's food safe.


 yeah, not sure about the adhesive though. and it's not subject to movement when used for sealing pipes so is not going to shed, right?


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## facboy (Dec 13, 2019)

this appears to be an easier to source alternative (in the UK) if somebody wanted to try it. i am undecided:

https://www.techbelt.com/buy-online/products/skived-ptfe-adhesive-tape-0-08mm-sk3/


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## Denis S (Jul 31, 2020)

Cant you just use kapton tape?


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## facboy (Dec 13, 2019)

Denis S said:


> Cant you just use kapton tape?


 well i don't have that either, but PTFE's coefficient of friction is 1/10th to 1/5th that of kapton. so less likely to bind in the housing i guess.


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