# Oh no! My little Hottop roaster has finally died... Need your sage advice



## HomeRoastery (Nov 1, 2020)

This morning I feel like someone who's lost a family member - my little loyal Hottop roaster has finally properly given up after 10+ years of service and a couple mother board changes. I wanted to roast some samples so took it out of storage and powered up. All good, it was working fine until I decided to move it to another socket and it's been tripping the entire house ever since. There's no water or any other obvious damage - I'm so gutted.  It doesn't look fried but something isn't right. It's sitting on top of a heater now to see if any water residue or condensation will show up (shouldn't but it's possible; it was not stored inside heated house!)

In case it is a farewell, can any of you friendly folks recommend a decent quality sample roaster? I've not done any research since acquiring Hottop and market most certainly has moved on. I wary of marketing BS and items that are more talk than walk, so if I could lean on your experience and opinions, it would be greatly appreciated. Consistency, quality of build and ability to manual adjust are all equally important.

Thank you in advance!!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Really not got a clue, but are Resident coffee garu, may I suggest SandBox Roaster at BB. I know nothing 🤣🤣


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## GoldenB19 (May 11, 2020)

Hi have you taken the back fan off and inspected the wiring? Could just be a loose wire if it's starting up and then shorting??

There seems to be a nee sample roaster out every month atm!


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## HomeRoastery (Nov 1, 2020)

Jony said:


> Really not got a clue, but are Resident coffee garu, may I suggest SandBox Roaster at BB. I know nothing 🤣🤣


 Will check it out, thanks!


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## HomeRoastery (Nov 1, 2020)

GoldenB19 said:


> Hi have you taken the back fan off and inspected the wiring? Could just be a loose wire if it's starting up and then shorting??
> 
> There seems to be a nee sample roaster out every month atm!


 Ha! Precisely. Ikawa, Probat, Roest seem to be the new upmarket items, and there's an array of cheaper models. I remember spending ages back then researching and figuring out what would be the best. I kind of loathe the idea of having to do it again, but seems like there's a lot more choice and a lot more info on this forum and elsewhere, so it might not be such a daunting task this time around.


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## HomeRoastery (Nov 1, 2020)

HomeRoastery said:


> Ha! Precisely. Ikawa, Probat, Roest seem to be the new upmarket items, and there's an array of cheaper models. I remember spending ages back then researching and figuring out what would be the best. I kind of loathe the idea of having to do it again, but seems like there's a lot more choice and a lot more info on this forum and elsewhere, so it might not be such a daunting task this time around.


 Forgot to mention, all wiring checked, nothing lose, nothing damaged. It must be moisture damage from temperature swings.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

HomeRoastery said:


> ...In case it is a farewell, can any of you friendly folks recommend a *decent quality* sample roaster?...


 I can't....but i do know an "unbiased" man that can @Beeroclock


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## HomeRoastery (Nov 1, 2020)

I've been reading his take on a few topics just now, not sure of his background but defo seems very knowledgeable! C'mon @Beeroclock, spill your beans 

Probat sample roaster is just silly, silly expensive. I dig Roest but it's not cheap either (my car is worth less!), Ikawa Pro3 is up the same alley but Roest seems better if one was parting with that kind of dosh. And then further down the line is Ikawa home roast edition but it seems limited for almost a cool grand which seems a lot for that title thing. I might as well then go for used Cormorant (and pay a bit more) but finding one is another question.

I fancy Cormorant's gas intake, as I imagine it would yield more consistent / comparable results to my big(er) gas roaster. Hottop was fun to play with, especially in the beginning, but needed lots of mods and pre-guessing well ahead of time.

Sandbox - not convinced about the probe placement 🤔, but need to look more into it to be fair.

What would you lovely people buy, if you needed one? Part of me thinks it needs to be of fairly professional capabilities, but other part thinks heck, I'm not a lab technician and don't need to sample 50 coffees a week, so why spend so much money. Roast is an eye candy, and I suspect half of the price is just a nice 'tux' around the specs.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Seeing as Rona has thrown a spanner into everyone's agenda, i'm not holding my breath about visiting forieign lands this year; ah well....so i may just have to settle for some retail therapy instead (works for the missus)....so it's either a Cormorant (need to pull finger out and check insurance on wether i can use it in the courtyard) or another grinder...i'd like the roaster but i might not be allowed to use it because of the gas cannister.


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## HomeRoastery (Nov 1, 2020)

Ooh, that's a tough one. Good grinder is a must, that was the first thing we got and then never ever again talked about the price! It was BD, Xmas, NY, anniversary and every other celebration for both of us put together, haha  Cormorant... yeah, I'm starting to like it a lot but agree with previously given advice (might have been to a thread you posted a few months ago, actually) check re: gas canister. If missus doesn't mind the retail therapy, just tag along and enjoy well-argumented ride.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Always wanted one like this.

I'm not convinced by the Sandbox probe placement either but also I'm not convinced it is absolutely necessary to even have a bean mass probe, but of course it helps. It's a lot of money for something that might not do the job occasionally too.

I'm also not convinced I can't just use the big roaster to do samples on but will have to experiment with that.

I'm tempted to build my own air roaster with borosilicate tubes, sheet metal cut and bent to shape, an appropriately rated heater and fan + probes and software control. I'm sure there are plenty of guides and other projects out there as inspiration too. The air roasters like the Ikawa are fairly simple devices at the end of the day. It's just a question of time and inclination to do it, and as I said in the other thread I'm not particularly interested in air roasters and would rather spend my time building a drum roaster if anything, which is just not going to happen. Well it might happen. Metal box, ir quarts tubes, rotisserie cage with a cut out for a bean mass probe...simple software again.

A Cormorant sounds good as a sample roaster. Maybe a huky? There's a similar one that's been around forever but I can't remember what it's called.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> I'm tempted to build my own air roaster with borosilicate tubes, sheet metal cut and bent to shape, an appropriately rated heater and fan + probes and software control. I'm sure there are plenty of guides and other *projects* out there as inspiration too.


 I'm sure you must have come across Frans's blog click to see showing his "project"....my apologies if you're already aware or have read/seen it before.

I was fascinated by Frans project...one thing led to another and before long i was gripped by the Fracino Roastilino...the small batch size made no odds to me...if anything it was ideal.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> Always wanted one like this.


 Wow that Commercial 3 Barrel Sample Coffee Roaster just scared the crap out of me lol....buttons, knobs, levers/pulleys, switches and gauges; it's a twiddlers dream 😍 ....it looks like something outta Frankensteins laboratory....i can picture myself screaming "*more power Igor*".


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

HomeRoastery said:


> ...If missus doesn't mind the retail therapy, just tag along and enjoy well-argumented ride.


 There'd be no arguements (we've never ever argued in 9 years since meeting) but it'd be torture for one of us...i hate shopping with her and she hates shopping with me; i hate shoes/handbags...she hates tech/books...we shop seperately nowadays :classic_wink:

R.E. the gas canister:- i don't recall mentioning it before; probably another member; my apologies if it was me.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Not that I know anything about roasters but there was a thread on here the other day about a new version and availability of the Behmor that looked interesting. Might be worth having a look.


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

HomeRoastery said:


> I've been reading his take on a few topics just now, not sure of his background but defo seems very knowledgeable! C'mon @Beeroclock, spill your beans


 @HomeRoastery no secrets here. You can pretty much follow my journey if you look over my threads from the past few years. Suffice to say, I suffer from slight OCD tendencies, which basically mean that when I get onto something, I have to really fully immerse myself which has led to an awful lot of reading, watching videos and roasting.

I don't know what size roaster you've started on, but spending 5k on a sample roaster seems a little crazy to me unless you have someone sampling all the time. Your real profile building will happen on your roasting machine anyway as there are so many variables when trying to translate profiles from a smaller roaster to a larger. Though I reckon if I had 15kg Giesen or Probrat - I could see buying a 1kg model from the same manufacturer as being beneficial. I'm guessing one of the reasons Tim Wendelboe moved to a Roest is that it probably shares similar characteristics to the Loring that they roast on. However the reason the Ikawa became so popular was consistency, practicality and ease of use. You could pretty much hand the job of sample roasting to a novice/junior - not so with a barrel sample machine.

One thing I will state is that I'm a believer in data and information recorded by properly located probes. I've experienced the results when you understand whats happening with crashes/ flicks etc. Can one roast by sight and smell etc - yes of course - with years of practice - though I doubt one can be truly consistent. We've all see videos of roasters on big machines pulling the trier repeatedly, that's all very well on a large machine with plenty of thermal mass, try doing it on a little 500g machine and see how your ET goes. There's a reason Lorings have a clever door that closes when one pulls the trier.

Here's a shot of my 1.5kg and a temporary door a made to check bean probe at various batch sizes - this one was at 500g









If you haven't listened to the podcast series by Therese Brondsted - Coffee Roasting Navigated - do so, I found it highly informative.

Back to the Kaffelogic - I've followed it's progress since it's launch. I like the design and function of the unit - could it be better, of course, but they are relaunching with some great additions/modifications. It uses a bare K type probe which is very sensitive (which allows the machine to follow profiles more accurately) the downside is the graphs can look a bit jumpy which might upset some of the perfectionists out there. Air roasting is different to drum roasting and I'm still learning the ropes. What I will say though is that there are a number of Roasteries using this already as their sample roaster. I attach a couple of PDF's of 2 roasts I did from a recent 200g sample of Uganda Ibanda - I wanted to see what the characteristics of this bean would be like as a filter and and espresso roast. I downloaded 2 profiles one from a contributor to the Kaffelogic forum and another based on a profile made by Rob Hoos - yes the same one, who spent an hr with the machine sometime last year.

View attachment log0018_Uganda_Ibanda_filter.pdf


View attachment log0019_Uganda_Ibanda_Hoos.pdf


So it's amazingly easy just to load a profile on this machine and off you go. But one also has the ability to really drill down into what's going on. It even tells you what available power one has depending on your mains voltage. It's also a 1400w heater which means it's possible to roast quickly if one wants to accentuate acidity in a coffee.

Cheers Phil


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## HomeRoastery (Nov 1, 2020)

So.... I got the Hottop running for a few seconds. Error message showed up and the the power cut out...again. Error message: Et 1

Anyone know what this means? Ive searched the web and other forums, but no luck.


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## HomeRoastery (Nov 1, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> Always wanted one like this.
> 
> I'm not convinced by the Sandbox probe placement either but also I'm not convinced it is absolutely necessary to even have a bean mass probe, but of course it helps. It's a lot of money for something that might not do the job occasionally too.
> 
> ...


 Exactly! As we are in the build-out phase, extra ££ here and there all add up! Especially if the product in question is just a glorified popcorn maker (a crude comparison; not referring to anything specific).

Building your own sounds like a fun project but it would take quite a bit of time and tinkering around. Not exactly in the position to take on something like that right now, and agree - makes sense to make a drum one if you are set on building one.

Huky looks neat but sample size is quite large - 150 to 450 which is great if you do loads of cupping, but not ideal if you only get a 70g sample from a bean supplier (sometimes happens). In States there also looks to be Arc S - I think I need to sit down and figure out exactly what I want - heat, capacity, manual controls, measurements, and of course price range. I'm starting to get twitchy!


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## HomeRoastery (Nov 1, 2020)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> There'd be no arguements (we've never ever argued in 9 years since meeting) but it'd be torture for one of us...i hate shopping with her and she hates shopping with me; i hate shoes/handbags...she hates tech/books...we shop seperately nowadays :classic_wink:
> 
> R.E. the gas canister:- i don't recall mentioning it before; probably another member; my apologies if it was me.


 Sorry for wrong reference; I read too many threads last night and obv. got my references mangled. Don't trust a tired brain at 1am in the morning ...


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## HomeRoastery (Nov 1, 2020)

Beeroclock said:


> I don't know what size roaster you've started on, but spending 5k on a sample roaster seems a little crazy to me unless you have someone sampling all the time. Your real profile building will happen on your roasting machine anyway as there are so many variables when trying to translate profiles from a smaller roaster to a larger. Though I reckon if I had 15kg Giesen or Probrat - I could see buying a 1kg model from the same manufacturer as being beneficial. I'm guessing one of the reasons Tim Wendelboe moved to a Roest is that it probably shares similar characteristics to the Loring that they roast on. However the reason the Ikawa became so popular was consistency, practicality and ease of use. You could pretty much hand the job of sample roasting to a novice/junior - not so with a barrel sample machine.


 Howdy Phil! Thanks for taking time to reply. I need to invest more time in this forum and read older posts - including yours. Lots of good stuff here! And I'm asking questions that someone else in the past already has.

We have a 1kg electric and 2kg gas roaster. Electric one is temperamental to say the least, and it will be difficult to roast a tiny sample with a 2kg gas one! And yes, dropping 5-10k on a sample roaster is just silly for someone who's aim isn't doing samples/cupping evaluations all day, every day.

Interesting to read re: Ikawa and Kaffelogic. Hmm.

Need to do some proper thinking. Sounds like I will not get away with anything 'cheap', and contenders at the moment are Ikawa Pro, Kaffelogic or Cormorant.


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

I love the Cormorant - truly do - but this isn't really a sample roaster to accompany a 2kg machine. The design of the veins makes it hard to get an accurate reading below 200-250g. Though there is a chap on HB who managed a loose fitting probe in bent in through a hole in the door and he gets reasonable results. He now roasts on a SF75.

There's also the wait time to factor in - you're probably looking v back end of the year.

If you're thinking Cormorant, to try an build profiles you should be aware that it uses a IR burner and as such is more akin to a Dietrich - albeit with better airflow control 😀

what 2kg machine do you have?


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## HomeRoastery (Nov 1, 2020)

Oh man, I hadn't looked into deets yet (two kids and all...) and didn't realise that minimum sample size would be that sizeable. You just saved me loads of time reading (thank you). I do most of my research late at night when I finally have 'some' time for myself.

We are starting small (cheap) and one day will have all the cool kit, but for now we are playing around with 1kg North Coffee Roaster and 2kg Has Garanti. Wasn't our best purchase but that's another long story I won't get into! So we now have what we have, and have to make do.

Part of me thinks heck, just get something simple, semi-automatic, forget about fiddling. Realistically, we won't need do daily sample roasting I don't think. Other part of me thinks cutting corners isn't wise especially if things do lift of and we need to start thinking/investing in better kit.

The underlying issue is that i'm not the one roasting, hubby is, so much of this - just like everything else - is a learning curve for me. Be warned, I will probably be asking a myriad of questions once I start roasting properly myself!!


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## HomeRoastery (Nov 1, 2020)

Beeroclock said:


> If you haven't listened to the podcast series by Therese Brondsted - Coffee Roasting Navigated - do so, I found it highly informative.


 Checking iTunes now - thanks v much for the tip!


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

The Turkish roasters get a lot of bashing - but you can roast great coffee on the - I've got a Golden GR1+ I imagine not too dissimilar to the Hasgaranti. The trick with these is not to overload them. It depends slightly on the drum and whether it's double wall or not.

cheers Phil


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