# first steps..



## domjon1 (Feb 14, 2013)

so I finally took the plunge and bought a classic off this forum, it's being delivered on friday and I can't wait to get stuck in. Purchased a kilo of Rave Signature Blend to get me going, think the constant variety of my IMM subscription would present a few too many challengers for a beginner so going to save that for the Aeropress.

I've stocked up on accessories from Happy Donkey and was just wondering if anyone had any advice on a simple process/recipe to help me take those first steps to consistency. The Silvia wand seems like a no brainer to go straight on, but unsure if I should dive straight in with the bottomless PF or give the standard one a go first? Also, what size basket would you recommend starting with, I've purchased a 14g and 21g unpressurised...will the learning curve be easier with one or the other and can anyone suggest what sort of brew ratios I should be looking at with these beans.

From discussions I've already had on the forum it's going to be interesting to see whether the Baratza Encore will be up to the job, exciting times ahead


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Would be an idea to have a basket in the 16-18grm range. Naked PF is good for checking barista technique to ensure even pour. Aim to get 1:1.5 to 1:2.0 input/output ratio. So, for 20 grm aim for 30-40grm out in 25-30secs. Would be a good idea to bring pressure down to 9-10bar. Need to borrow the portafilter manometer via forum for this.


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## domjon1 (Feb 14, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Would be an idea to have a basket in the 16-18grm range. Naked PF is good for checking barista technique to ensure even pour. Aim to get 1:1.5 to 1:2.0 input/output ratio. So, for 20 grm aim for 30-40grm out in 25-30secs. Would be a good idea to bring pressure down to 9-10bar. Need to borrow the portafilter manometer via forum for this.


yeah i was hoping to put off the OPV stuff until I'd at least got to grips with things a bit. If I was to buy one of the VST 18g baskets do I need ridgeless or ridged btw? It will have to wait till next pay day now mind, I've spent more on accessories than the machine already. Gonna start with a 20g dose in the 21g basket then I think, will report back over the weekend with probably a million more questions.


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## DannyMontez (May 19, 2014)

The opv mod is really easy. It looks a lot more daunting than it actually is.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

domjon1 said:


> .... do I need ridgeless or ridged btw?


Personal preference - ridgeless are easier to remove - useful if you swap baskets regularly.


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## John James (Jun 7, 2014)

DannyMontez said:


> The opv mod is really easy. It looks a lot more daunting than it actually is.


I did the opv mod this morning, took about an hour and was simples, some mopping up and a bit of common sense but was remarkably easy.


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## John James (Jun 7, 2014)

John James said:


> I did the opv mod this morning, took about an hour and was simples, some mopping up and a bit of common sense but was remarkably easy.


It is the other stuff which confuses me like which basket to use and whether or not you should leave in that plastic thingy. And what does VST mean?


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

WTF is the plastic thingy, do you mean that shitty false crema device, if so just bin it, VST is the brand name (I think lol).

Ian


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Vst is the brand name of the basket manufacturer.

If you have a grinder and want to get best from your beans then invest in a non pressurised basket ( VST or another ) not a single tho.

Ditch the perfect crema gizmo after you have basket beans and grinder


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## John James (Jun 7, 2014)

Eyedee said:


> WTF is the plastic thingy, do you mean that shitty false crema device, if so just bin it, VST is the brand name (I think lol).
> 
> Ian


Yes that's the one, I did buy a non pressurised basket (from Happy Donkey I think) I am not sure it is branded VST or otherwise. I did try the plastic thingy with it but it just made it spit all over the place so took it back out.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

The plastic thing is just there to make pretend crema for people with no grinder using supermarket pre ground. Once you have a grinder and fresh beans, the pressurised basket just conceals what's going on.


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## John James (Jun 7, 2014)

hotmetal said:


> The plastic thing is just there to make pretend crema for people with no grinder using supermarket pre ground. Once you have a grinder and fresh beans, the pressurised basket just conceals what's going on.


That's a good explanation, I was using pre ground and didn't realise it would need an artificial aid and that fresh would not.

I have only been using a hand grinder for a month or so and keep thinking I should try to compare different methods so that I can see the difference in results, for example pressured vs non pressured basket, but I rapidly lose interest at the thought of grinding the amount of coffee I would need to make a few cups. Next plan is to obtain a proper grinder and then I can experiment a bit more without wasting all the time grinding beans.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Yes. The thing about non-pressurised baskets is that they are the professional default for use with fresh coffee. To use them successfully you need to dial in your grinder and beans. To be able to do this you need to be able to see how long it takes for the espresso to come out, and what it looks/tastes like. A pressurised basket will prevent you from doing that as it gives a false crema and will affect shot time. They only exist so that when someone buys a consumer-focused espresso machine with the expectation that it will make espresso from supermarket coffee do not find themselves disappointed and want to return the goods! If you're grinding fresh coffee to suit, you can put the pressurised basket back in the box and ignore it. A hand grinder can grind for espresso but is hard work. Keep out for brewed, and get a dedicated grinder for espresso. There's still enough variables to make it fun to experiment without trying the pressurised basket. You've still got temperature, grind level, dose, shot length, distribution, tamping, and different beans to contend with!


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

I started with the following and they helped me gradually to get to good coffee:

1) OPV

2) Naked Pf

3) VST baskets only (More difficult but at least you know your baskets are good and another thing is consistent)

4) Silvia Wand

5) Espro 58.4mm Tamper (not essential but helps to keep consistent - essential the tamper to be 58.4mm)

6) Rave Coffee (only 2 varieties so I can master those)

7) Mignon Grinder (this is a minimum. I would probably go for a used SJ if I did it again). Understand how to dial in - probably the most important thing

8) Bottled Water

9) Understand when the machine is ready or how to temp surf. Understand when and how to steam also if you need to

10) See what are the usual ratios other people are you using with the specific coffees you are experimenting

With all the above, there is not much that can not be consistent and they only thing you have to do is practice a lot. The only things left are basically distribution and tamping.


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## John James (Jun 7, 2014)

hotmetal said:


> Yes. The thing about non-pressurised baskets is that they are the professional default for use with fresh coffee. To use them successfully you need to dial in your grinder and beans. To be able to do this you need to be able to see how long it takes for the espresso to come out, and what it looks/tastes like. A pressurised basket will prevent you from doing that as it gives a false crema and will affect shot time. They only exist so that when someone buys a consumer-focused espresso machine with the expectation that it will make espresso from supermarket coffee do not find themselves disappointed and want to return the goods! If you're grinding fresh coffee to suit, you can put the pressurised basket back in the box and ignore it. A hand grinder can grind for espresso but is hard work. Keep out for brewed, and get a dedicated grinder for espresso. There's still enough variables to make it fun to experiment without trying the pressurised basket. You've still got temperature, grind level, dose, shot length, distribution, tamping, and different beans to contend with!


You are going to regret answering me now







and thanks for expanding on the pressurised/non pressurised basket explanation.

I bought a non pressurised basket from Happy Donkey not knowing what a VST basket was, just done a search now I know a bit more and sure enough up pops a link to the baskets on Has Bean's website. They look completely different to the one I have so I wonder if the VST one would further improve matters.

And another question







Why the mesh shower screen as opposed to the supplied one?

I had already decided to go for a "proper" grinder and to keep the hand one for brewed coffee. It doesn't take that long but I end up breaking out in a sweat each time and it is the offputting part of making a brew.

Incidentally I did the OPV mod the other day, very easy to do. I posted my findings on the thread in the How to section.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Cool, sounds like you've got things coming together nicely. There was a thread on here when I joined where some people said a VST was a big improvement, but others said it was tricky to master as it is quite sensitive to dosage. Personally I wouldn't worry about it. Maybe at some point someone will be selling one and you can have a go and see how it compares. You'll need to get used to the stock one to compare them anyway. I have both, I prefer the VST but there's not a massive difference in the cup to my uneducated palate. Best thing is it's ridgeless so easier to pop in and out.

Mesh shower screen is supposed to provide a more even distribution of water. I can't say if it's better than stock as it was already in my Classic when I bought it. All the mods were done by the previous owner on here. Hope that helps.


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## solukas (Sep 13, 2014)

Thanks a lot for all of your explanations. It answers lots of my questions as well.

I would like to know if the has bean VST 18g ridgeless basket will fit the happy donkey naked bottomless filter?

These are my next investment but I want to make sure that if they will fit for each other.

Thanks very much!

Luke


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## domjon1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Well first day with the Classic and all I can say is Wow, I can see why you lot are so obsessed now...what great fun









Whipped the case of the Encore and recalibrated it to the fine setting in the hope of getting sufficient adjustment, popped on the silvia wand, followed the excellent sticky thread on this forum and away we went.

I've obviously got a long way to go but without this forum I would have been miles behind where I am already, so thanks to all. There's a short video below of where I'm up to after a couple hours tinkering, would appreciate any advice to help me improve...

For this shot I used Rave Signature Blend, only roasted 2 days ago which I realise is a bit premature but that's all I had to hand and impatience ruled!

Dosed 16g in a 14g non pressurised basket in a naked PF. Stopped the shot at around 27 seconds, output was a little too much at 34g. To my untrained eye it looked ok if a little too blonde? To me it was just about drinkable but a little bitter, lost in a latte it was absolutely fine. I'll take that for a first day attempt.

So any suggestions? Am I at least on the right lines? I have the pressure gauge kit arriving tomorrow is the OPV mod likely to make much difference? Do I need to read up on the temp surfing stuff at this point? One thing I did notice was that the puck was fairly wet afterwards?

Thanks again for all the helpful info people have posted.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

You dosed 16g into a 14g basket?


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## domjon1 (Feb 14, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> You dosed 16g into a 14g basket?


Yeah, to be honest this is the bit I couldn't get my head around earlier. The double basket that comes with the happy donkey naked pf is 14g right?. and yet my 16 g doesnt overfill it....do I have the world's worst scales or am I missing something obvious here?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

It'll hold a lot more than 16 without being full but it might not work optimally with much more in it. Baskets are best used within a gram or two of their stated dose.

How full the basket is for a set dose will depend on the density of the bean


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## domjon1 (Feb 14, 2013)

hmmm, this isn't as easy as I thought









I seem to be able to get my brew ratio's correct fairly consistently however I'm plagued by sourness in the cup. Any pointers?

This is an example of my current workflow:

Allow machine to warm up for 30 minutes with PF and basket in Group. Using volvic in the reservoir btw.

Grind 15g of Rave Signature (4 days since roasted) into a 14g basket, distribute with paper clip, level and tamp.

Run half a cup of water through group.

Insert PF into group and hit Brew as soon as the Boiler light comes back on.

The last shot I pulled like this yielded 24.8g in 26 seconds, I'm using a naked PF and the flow looked pretty good to me, a single flow and delivered plenty of crema.

All seems ok, except to the taste, which is after all the important thing. My shots are ranging from quite a bit too sour to extremely sour.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Firstly There is no " one " brew ratio that is correct for all beans

The coffee is a little on the fresh side currently , ii normally dive into espresso 5 day plus , Regular users of the sig blend will rest if for more like 7-10 before use and relate it's a better taste at the point ,

Have you tried different doses and outputs also ?

I can't comment in your temp surfing routine , I don't have your machine


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## domjon1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks, perhaps I ought to give it a few days more rest then to give myself more chance, is 'sourness' a characteristic of an overly fresh bean?

I've tried a variety of doses but I have tried to keep my outputs pretty firmly within the 1.5 to 2 ratio...actually one of my better efforts was when I overdosed the basket and also ended up with a little too much output....perhaps I need to relax the rules a little and put more emphasis on taste.

A well meaning sister has just dropped me off a bag of Lavazza beans, I'm guessing there will be no problems with over-freshness there so I think I'll have a little play with those until the Rave are ready.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

domjon1 said:


> A well meaning sister has just dropped me off a bag of Lavazza beans, I'm guessing there will be no problems with over-freshness there so I think I'll have a little play with those until the Rave are ready.


Chances are these beans will confuse you even more, you will get a totally different kind of shot from the rave IJ ones.

Have a play by all means, but dont get to hung up on them.


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## domjon1 (Feb 14, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> Chances are these beans will confuse you even more, you will get a totally different kind of shot from the rave IJ ones.
> 
> Have a play by all means, but dont get to hung up on them.


thanks for the warning, oh well confusion is all part of the fun eh...clarity will eventually emerge


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