# Sage dual temp pro + grinder or Sage barista express



## Benjijames28 (Mar 29, 2017)

I had to return my barista express to the shop over a minor issue, i was offered a replacement or refund, i opted for refund to give me time to contemplate my options, because i knew very little about coffee when i bought the machine.

So now I've read that people don't rate the sage grinders but seem to think the machines including the cheap ones can make a good cup.

I was really impressed with the sages steam wand, and how quick the machine warmed up. As for my shots, bit hit and miss, fresher beans made all the difference, i never nailed the taste consistently tho.

What options would you guys consider for any set up with a budget of around the 600 pound mark?

I may just go buy a hand grinder and try and make some good aeropress coffee with the beans I've got left.


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## momchevk (Jan 31, 2017)

Hi, I got DTP plus a Mignon for similar amount of money although I managed to find a pristine second hand Mignon, so a bit less than 600. I was also considering the Barista express but decided this would limit me to the inbuilt grinder so less flexibility with choices there. In the future I may want to change just the machine... I think the BE is basically the same coffee machine as the DTP without the grinder although I haven't looked to deep into the differences.

Bottom line, get a machine and a grinder separately and try to choose the best grinder possible - this is what this forum thought me


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

buy a separate grinder and machine, then you can upgrade either. Mignons at that price bracket are sound, especially if you can pick up a second hand one


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## Benjijames28 (Mar 29, 2017)

So far people are saying go for something like a mignon grinder and a sage dual temp pro?

Cost wise about same, benefit been i get a better grinder, negative been i don't get the pressure gauge.

Also does anyone know if the dual temp pro let's u adjust the temperature of your shots, or alter the amount of water you get with a button press, apparently you can do both on the barista express.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

as far as I can remember, the dual temp has no bells and whistles. I did test one a couple of years ago. BB do the Quickmill Silvano which is a little more but has a pid etc. Have a look at that

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/quik-mill-silvano-espresso-machine-1640.html

I have had one of those to look at as well and found them fun and friendly and this one is a bargain price


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

I have a DTP and its a superb entry level machine. It heats up in a minute or so and froths milk really well. You have to get use to the pre-infusion but your Sage BE probably did that anyway? As for grinder, it seems a Mignon is a good shout though ive never owned one or even a Mazzer Super Jolly second hand from the for sale section would be a good upgrade. Or you can try and get a DTP for as cheap as possible and put the rest of your money towards a Baratza Sette 270 which is a superb grinder.


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## Benjijames28 (Mar 29, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> as far as I can remember, the dual temp has no bells and whistles. I did test one a couple of years ago. BB do the Quickmill Silvano which is a little more but has a pid etc. Have a look at that
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/quik-mill-silvano-espresso-machine-1640.html
> 
> I have had one of those to look at as well and found them fun and friendly and this one is a bargain price


Looks like it's gone.

I looked at the sage instructions online and your right, no bells and whistles, just on or off.

Choices choices.

Those mignon grinders look decent. With a 3 year warranty you can't complain.

Now just need a decent machine.


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

How much space do you have?

You could go for a second hand grinder that is more of a commercial one that will give you great coffee grinding for around £100. Second hand Mazzer Super Jolly or a Simonelli MDX is a good option maybe? I have an MDX for sale at the moment in the for sale section but the Super Jollys are really popular too.

Why not get a PID converted Gaggia Classic second hand? Good steaming, 58mm portafilter etc?

Are you wanting new kit specifically?


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## Benjijames28 (Mar 29, 2017)

Space is a bit of an issue

Biggest issue i seem to be facing, is finding a decent machine that ticks the boxes a b express does in the same price bracket.


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Have posted in your grinder thread with my experience of the Sage Barista Express and Smart Grinder Pro

If you're in the East Midlands you're welcome to come and have a look / play with my Smart Grinder Pro if you wish? (Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire)


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## Benjijames28 (Mar 29, 2017)

It seems for the money im willing to spend i have three options .

Get a mignon grinder for 280 and a sage machine for 300

Get a barista express

Try and get a second hand dual boiler machine and separate grinder (well above my budget), and hope the previous owner looked after it.

Might be leaning towards a barista express as the ability to adjust the temperature of my shots appeals and it also saves space.

Any more thoughts?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

buying a coffee set up should be made without emotion. Sage products seem to ge pretty good but because they sell so many they have a lot of faults/returns. That said, they have a lot of machines that have not gone wrong yet and may never, but it raises the question what do you do if you buy a second hand Sage and it breaks out of warranty? They have one firm who do all repairs providing the parts are available. If you buy new at least you get a 2 year warranty and some retailers used to extend that to a third year (JL).

If you are buying Sage buy new. A Mignon is far better than the grinder in a Barista


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

I didn't find the coffee temp adjustment on my barista express did much to be honest.

Id get a mignon and a PID modded gaggia classic


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## Benjijames28 (Mar 29, 2017)

Cosmetically and space wise it won't cut it I'm afraid. Has to look nice.


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## Benjijames28 (Mar 29, 2017)

I really don't think I'm going to find a set up that's as well suited to my needs and budget as the barista express.

I've got about a foot of worktop space to work with and it has to match rest of girlfriends kitchen so cosmetics play a big part too.

I accept the grinder is entry level at best, and the smaller portafilter is not ideal, but I'm sure with good beans and a bit of experimenting i can get a coffee better than anything from Costa or any of the other chain cafes near me.

Only alternative seems to be double my budget (at least) and get a separate grinder and machine system, by time I've found one that's the right size and cosmetically appealing i could be looking at quadruple the barista express.

I'm never gonna be as good as most of you at making coffee, not with my budget and requirements, but if i can make a nice cup at home then I'm happy. I will get my main enjoyment from speciality coffee shops.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I bet you get loads of enjoyment from whatever machine you end up with! And you will get a very decent cup from the Barista Express, I'm sure









It took me years and years to get my first Rocket, there was always something else we needed more, all the boring stuff of life and having our own a home!

Get the one that instinctivly feels right. When it arrives home celebrate and enjoy it


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## Benjijames28 (Mar 29, 2017)

If my desire for homemade coffee is a long term thing i am sure i will upgrade one day, but i just can't justify spending more than say 600 right now.


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## tdfg7583 (Nov 16, 2016)

I wonder why people sometimes seem to have a bit of a downer on Sage grinders? I have a Barista Express and often use the built-in grinder over the other options I've had (Mahlkonig Vario, Feldgrind, Kinu M47), all of which some people like a lot. I like them too, by the way. I just like to experiment! Different grinders seem to emphasise different elements in various coffees and so the integrated Sage grinder seems to me to be a very good option to have. It often gives me great separation of flavours with single origin beans. I actually rather love it.

Also, the Barista Express allows you to play with manual pre-infusion modes, to effectively turn on/off pre-infusion and see what benefits each type of coffee. And an adjustable PID in a really compact machine.

To me, the Barista Express is an absolute bargain. And the small footprint means that you can always add another grinder if you want more options to play with.


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## Benjijames28 (Mar 29, 2017)

tdfg7583 said:


> I wonder why people sometimes seem to have a bit of a downer on Sage grinders? I have a Barista Express and often use the built-in grinder over the other options I've had (Mahlkonig Vario, Feldgrind, Kinu M47), all of which some people like a lot. I like them too, by the way. I just like to experiment! Different grinders seem to emphasise different elements in various coffees and so the integrated Sage grinder seems to me to be a very good option to have. It often gives me great separation of flavours with single origin beans. I actually rather love it.
> 
> Also, the Barista Express allows you to play with manual pre-infusion modes, to effectively turn on/off pre-infusion and see what benefits each type of coffee. And an adjustable PID in a really compact machine.
> 
> To me, the Barista Express is an absolute bargain. And the small footprint means that you can always add another grinder if you want more options to play with.


Could you give me a quick over view of instructions on how to affect pre Infusion etc on my machine?

I've got a 1kg bag of fresh espresso beans coming from casa espresso in Yorkshire. I'm hoping to use that big bag to really nail my coffee making on my new machine.


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## tdfg7583 (Nov 16, 2016)

Of course. If you hold the Single or Double brew button for more than a second, it should go into manual pre-infusion mode. As long as you hold the button, it will push out water at the lower pressure. So hold for, say, 3 seconds for that custom amount of pre-infusion. As soon as you release the button, the pressure ramps up. So, to basically turn off pre-infusion, i press and hold the button for just around a second, release and so it goes much more quickly to full pressure. In my opinion, most beans I've tried have benefited from the default pre-infusion, but a few have been better without it. It's just one more variable to confuse matters, but i like having the choice


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## Benjijames28 (Mar 29, 2017)

Can you control how long it stays at pressure, aka how long the shot is?

So i could say do my short preinfusion then make it extract for say 25 seconds?


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## tdfg7583 (Nov 16, 2016)

Yep, once it's at full pressure, in manual mode, you just press the brew button again to stop it.

I've found, though, that the pre-infusion mode tends to make the coffee flow a bit faster than usual, once it gets up to pressure, so I started worrying less about time and more about hitting a particular pressure-reading on the dial. And then my target weight for the shot, of course. That's probably just me though and I'm sure that other people will be getting good results going by a stopwatch to dial in their grind.


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## Benjijames28 (Mar 29, 2017)

Well I've got lots of experimenting to do next week. Lol

I've really kitted myself out this week, buying 1kg of beans, a set of coffee scales, and a jug to measure my shots in ml.

With those tools and a bit of patience I'm sure i will crack out some great coffee.


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## tdfg7583 (Nov 16, 2016)

Absolutely. It should be a fun week, good luck!


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## MikeBookham (Sep 3, 2016)

Benjijames28 said:


> Well I've got lots of experimenting to do next week. Lol
> 
> I've really kitted myself out this week, buying 1kg of beans, a set of coffee scales, and a jug to measure my shots in ml.
> 
> With those tools and a bit of patience I'm sure i will crack out some great coffee.


I assume that you've got your BE, how have you got on with it this past week?

I've been gradually been increasing my drip/pour over kit the past 9 months and after visiting the London Coffee festival a couple of weeks ago and pulling some shots on a La Marzocco Linea Mini I decided to buy an espresso machine. After reading many reviews and forum comments I decided on and bought the Sage BE from Lakeland (price matched) rather than the DT with separate grinder mainly because of the pressure gauge, 3 way valve and that it should be less messy than the DT with separate grinder, which is important because my 2 sons will also be using it.

So far I've been very happy and it has only taken a couple of shots to consistently get the shots in the ideal pressure zone. The only con so far is that it does make quite a bit of mess and needs cleaning after every shot.

For the money I think the Sage BE is the best compromise, especially over the main competitor, the Rancilio Silvia and the hassle of temp surfing.


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## Benjijames28 (Mar 29, 2017)

Hi,

I have two issues to consider when i was picking my machine, first issue been limited worktop space right now, and second issue been that I'm a tight arse who isn't ready to spend 1k plus on a coffee set up. I suppose cosmetic appeal is a consideration too, especially in the girlfriends eyes.

Considering the above, the barista express seemed to be the best option for me.

As for my progress, I've actually got another thread going in the new members section tracking my coffee making, people have kindly been helping me get to grips with ratios etc... I've learnt the machine is more than capable of producing great coffee.

As for the pressure gauge, that was an appealing feature originally, but towards end of last week i was ignoring it and focusing on the same things any other machine would focus on... Dose weight, yield, and extraction time. I see the pressure gauge as a guide for beginners to make something drinkable.


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Benjijames28 said:


> As for the pressure gauge, that was an appealing feature originally, but towards end of last week i was ignoring it and focusing on the same things any other machine would focus on... Dose weight, yield, and extraction time. I see the pressure gauge as a guide for beginners to make something drinkable.


You're becoming a Barista Express Expert!! This is exactly right. In part I bought my BE because it had a gauge on. Didn't really know why, I just liked it. Brewed by gauge for 18 months and then the last 6 months before I sold it I ignored it and did as you are doing. Coffee was great!


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## MikeBookham (Sep 3, 2016)

Thanks for the update.

My decision parameters were the same as yours; cost, space & appearance, and had a similar budget in mind.

I agree that the gauge is good starting point for beginners, especially those not wanting/willing to monitor all of the parameters and I'll look out for your other thread on its usage.


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