# Delonghi EC860M



## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

Hi Guys,

I recently bought one of these as it seemed to get good reviews (for the price at least), however it seems to work very differently to my last espresso machine and it's obviously very different from my Aeropress.

It uses a pressurized basket (is it the basket?) and so tamping and grind is different to usual. I know I won't get a world class espresso out of it, which is fine since I normally have Lattes/Cappuccinos however I just wanted to make sure I'm getting the most out of it that I can.

Do you guys have any tips in regards to working with a machine like this? thanks.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

If you have an aeropress, are grinding fresh AND using freshly roasted beans you are not going to get anything acceptable from this machine I'm afraid. You would be better off returning it and buying a gaggia Classic and second hand grinder.

I'm not sure id want to swap the basket for non pressurised in that, I doubt it could deliver a reliable extraction without it. Set the strength to maximum, make sure you are using freshly roasted beans to your liking and see if you can live with it otherwise?

The aeropress it far more capable though.


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## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

Ah ok that sucks







It seems to be acceptable I just wasn't sure if I was using it to it's best.

But yeah, always freshly ground and as freshly roasted as I can get them (Square Mile). Bit of a shame really, as it's a nice machine.. haha. Thanks.


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## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

Unless anyone can confirm this machine would work with a non-pressurized basket? I've seen some people recommending them in cheaper Delonghi machines, so not sure if this one is really that much worse? Haha

Thanks


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

It would work, but I don't think it will make an improvement.

The pressurised basket compensates for an uneven dose, uneven grind and stale coffee.

The grinder built into the machine probably isn't up to much, and I'd also be surprised if the grinder accurately churned out the same dose every time as well. If you had a separate grinder, some scales and a decent tamper you could make an improvement but the weak spot would still be the machine so in a way it's silly to chuck a lot of money at it.

That said the baskets are only a few quid so you could always try. The one advantage it would give you is you will see the change when you adjust the grind, the pressurised basket will cover that up to an extent. You could then play around with the grind size and try and make the machine pour a double in around 30.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Does it have a grinder built in?


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I don't think so. It's got some sort of auto milk thing but not a grinder. It uses ESE pods or ground.

http://www.delonghi.com/en-gb/products/coffee/coffee-makers/pump-espresso/ec-860m-r132109000

Getting non-pressurised baskets might not be that easy either - this is not a Gaggia Classic and doesn't have a 'standard' sized group.

Apparently you cam modify a La Pav basket with a hammer&#8230;
















http://blog.seattlecoffeegear.com/2012/06/18/crew-review-delonghi-ec860/


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## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

Hmm ok maybe I could try one, how would I know if one would fit? This one doesn't "fall into place" like my older one, it has bits in the handle that hold it in place.

I have a tamper and my grinder is external, no froggy not built in. It's a Hario Slim (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hario-MSS-1B-1-Piece-Coffee-Grinder/dp/B001804CLY/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1415194040&sr=1-1&keywords=hario+slim). So I assume that's acceptable? The tamper I don't have any details on, but it's got quite a bit of weight to it.

Whenever I try to tamp the coffee down to what I would call a relatively standard amount though, it seems to choke the machine







Is this me or the machine?

Thanks again for all your help









EDIT - Yes hotmetal, no grinder built in just the milk and coffee part.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Can you take the basket out and take a photo and measure it?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

the pressure is stuck at 15 bar and im guessing you cant adjust, not a massive deal but would be better a little lower.


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## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

I will take it out and take some pictures tonight when I get back from work







No way to adjust that I know of but I'll look in the book tonight and check.

Out of interest, what about the pressure makes it bad if it's too high?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Its not that its bad, its just pushing water through faster than you want, 9/10 bar i think is ideal.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I wouldn't worry about the OPV/brew pressure until you can get a basket sorted. I edited my original post but the thread has moved on a page since then;

It seems you'll have to get a La Pavoni basket and, er, a hammer!

http://blog.seattlecoffeegear.com/2012/06/18/crew-review-delonghi-ec860/


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## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

Oh dear...a recipe for disaster if I ever did hear one! haha

What about on here, http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/285219?Page=2, guy saying that this one works - http://www.partsland.nl/Webwinkel-Product-4367582/Delonghi-filter-2-kops.html


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

http://www.buyspares.co.uk/product.pl?pid=1742107

Apologies, I thought that machine was fully automatic with a grinder built in. If you can return it, a Gaggia Classic is cheaper and better.

I think you will still struggle with the Hario Slim, its OK for the aeropress but not really good for espresso.


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## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

Ah right ok, how do I know if it will do? Is it that the consistency not good enough for espresso? As the grinder itself can get it quite fine, like powder fine.

I can't return it now as I've had it for a couple of weeks. Overall I do like the coffee I get from it, since I drink lattes so my taste probably isn't as sensitive as that of an espresso drinker, I just wanted to make sure I was doing everything I could to get the best out of it. To be honest, the one from my Aeropress this morning was very good, and the one last night from the machine was good, but not as good, but then it just dawned on my (slow I know..) that I used around 16g of coffee for the Aeropress one, and 7g for the single that came from the machine. So maybe I need to try the bigger filter and go for a double to check the taste from that.

Aaron, how do I know if that filter will fit my machine or is it an order and see job?


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

You need to measure it, but for a few quid you could just take a chance.

Does your tamper fit the basket snugly? It's not the stupid plastic one is it? If so get a nice metal one.

Yes it's all to do with consistency, being able to choke the machine doesn't really mean it is good enough for espresso. It's better than preground though.

7g is FAR too low, get the double basket. With some of the lighter roasts (like Square Mile) you really need higher doses to get a pleasant taste from them as espresso, 18g minimum possibly 20g.

Like I said best thing you can do if you decide to get the non pressurised basket is be consistent with your dose, weigh in and weigh out too. Try and get a shot out in the 27-31g range in about 30 seconds to start with then tweak it your taste and see how you get on.

Hope that helps a bit.


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## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

Ok I will measure it, and call the company to see what that one is as it doesn't seem to be on their site. The tamper fit snug in my last Delonghi, yet to try it in the new one, I've just used the crappy plastic one, managed to actually find a link to the one I have which I need to pickup, it was quite good, at least I found no issues with it. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kitchen-LeXpress-Stainless-Coffee-Tamper/dp/B007J3JEN0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415197349&sr=8-1&keywords=tamper

I have some Square Mile now, and in fact another delivery of it arrived this morning so it's the perfect time to get experimenting. Ok so I will measure out 18-20g's in the double basket and try to get a 30 second shot out of it.

Helps a lot, thanks very much







I will show some pictures of the filter etc later and let you all know how I get on....hopefully I can get a non-pressured filter too in the next couple of days


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## Zakalwe (Oct 19, 2014)

I used to have one of them. it'll make an OK espresso...certainly far superior to anything from the likes of Costa.

A fine grind will choke it easily, so I wouldn't go with an unpressurised PF.

This is a very nice tamper for not a lot of money:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00B703BNU/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

Zakalwe said:


> I used to have one of them. it'll make an OK espresso...certainly far superior to anything from the likes of Costa.
> 
> A fine grind will choke it easily, so I wouldn't go with an unpressurised PF.
> 
> ...


Ah cool. Good to see that some people have had good experiences with it. Most things are better than costa haha









Oh so you think it's the machine choking rather than it just being the filter? I figured it was choking it when combined with the filter, as it does it when I tamp it more than just leveling it too.


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## Zakalwe (Oct 19, 2014)

The pressurised filter in these doesn't use any sort of valve. Rather the PF has a double-walled bottom with a tiny pinprick in the outer wall. This can get blocked quite easily. A fine sewing needle will clear it.

If the grind is too fine then the machine doesn't have the oommph to push the water through. Plus the PF will clog. An unpressurised PF will need a much finer grind and I think that the machine will struggle, to be honest.


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## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

Oh I see what you're saying now. Hmmm well I will do some more experimenting with it. I may try the unpressurized if the one in this thread for £2.50 will fit since there's not a lot to lose haha.

I will check the hole for any blockages


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Zakalwe said:


> The pressurised filter in these doesn't use any sort of valve. Rather the PF has a double-walled bottom with a tiny pinprick in the outer wall. This can get blocked quite easily. A fine sewing needle will clear it.
> 
> If the grind is too fine then the machine doesn't have the oommph to push the water through. Plus the PF will clog. An unpressurised PF will need a much finer grind and I think that the machine will struggle, to be honest.


This machine actually delivers more oomph than average (not a good thing, but its 15bar) so a fine grind in an unpressurised basket shouldn't choke it any more than a normal espresso machine.


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## Zakalwe (Oct 19, 2014)

Dylan said:


> This machine actually delivers more oomph than average (not a good thing, but its 15bar) so a fine grind in an unpressurised basket shouldn't choke it any more than a normal espresso machine.


You would think that, but it's not the case.

I've just dug my old one out of the cupboard and tried to run a shot through using the same grind that I use for my Leva. Not a drop came out of the Delonghi. The pump just does not have the power to push water through a fine puck. Thats why it uses a pressurised filter.


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## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

Hmmm that is a pain...







maybe I'll just have to try and get the best out of what I have haha


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Zakalwe said:


> You would think that, but it's not the case.
> 
> I've just dug my old one out of the cupboard and tried to run a shot through using the same grind that I use for my Leva. Not a drop came out of the Delonghi. The pump just does not have the power to push water through a fine puck. Thats why it uses a pressurised filter.


Perhaps it is simply not delivering the pressure it claims? Is the basket on your one still pressurised? If it is then it is not an equal test.

The pressurised PF is relative to the grind of course, ideally creating more pressure to extract course/stale coffee.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Zakalwe said:


> You would think that, but it's not the case.
> 
> I've just dug my old one out of the cupboard and tried to run a shot through using the same grind that I use for my Leva. Not a drop came out of the Delonghi. The pump just does not have the power to push water through a fine puck. Thats why it uses a pressurised filter.


eh?

That's not a a conductive experiment at all.

I could probably choke any machine if I tried hard enough, it doesn't mean the pump isn't good enough it just means I've ground too fine.

If there is a OPVA fitted then that would kick in and divert the water / pressure, if not you have a messy sneeze coming up.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

A grind for a lever would probably choke your Leva, doesn't mean the Leva is shite.


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## Zakalwe (Oct 19, 2014)

aaronb said:


> eh?
> 
> That's not a a conductive experiment at all.
> 
> I could probably choke any machine if I tried hard enough, it doesn't mean the pump isn't good enough it just means I've ground too fine.


The point that I was trying to make was that the De Longhi needs a fairly coarse grind, otherwise it chokes up. I would think that if you used a coarse grind in an unpressurised portafilter then you'd get the water gushing through?



jeebsy said:


> A grind for a lever would probably choke your Leva, doesn't mean the Leva is shite.


I didn't say anywhere that the DeLonghi was shite, though did I? In fact, I sad that it makes a pretty OK espresso.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

"doesn't have the oommph to push the water through" is implying it doesn't quite cut the mustard imo


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## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

Ok so I tested it out with more grounds. I used the double shot basket, and I could honestly only fit around 15g in there as I can't tamp it enough to create more space, or it chokes.

I think I did it either too fine, or tamped too much though. It did come through, but the shot took too long, and it was quite bitter, it almost did long drips out, rather than a stream... The espresso was not great on it's own, was acceptable when I added it to milk though. Very strong at least!

Would it be worth trying a coarser grind next time? I can't imagine I'm using too much since it's the bits that came with the actual machine... Here are pictures of the filter and handle (sump?).

Please excuse the quality of the first one.


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## Zakalwe (Oct 19, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> "doesn't have the oommph to push the water through" is implying it doesn't quite cut the mustard imo


Only if you take it out out the context of the full sentence. Which you have done. So well done for that.











Owen said:


> Would it be worth trying a coarser grind next time?


Yes, try a coarser grind. You don't need to tamp very heavily either with the pressurised puck.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Let's use the next one then



Zakalwe said:


> The pump just does not have the power to push water through a fine puck.


As Dylan said earlier it should have 15 bar of oomph. Or is 15 bar not 15 bar if the pump doesn't have sufficient oomph+. It's the basket, not the pump.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

OP -

Will the two halves of the basket come away from one another, so you can try grinding finer, tamping and not using the pressurised basket?


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## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

Dylan said:


> OP -
> 
> Will the two halves of the basket come away from one another, so you can try grinding finer, tamping and not using the pressurised basket?


Hmm very good question. It doesn't feel like it from memory, but I'll try tonight and see if I can pull it apart. I have a feeling it's a sealed unit though.

That would save some hassle though!









Just a quick question, in regards to the actual handle part, does the plastic bit in there matter at all or will that not make a difference if a non-pressurized unit is used?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

A non-pressurised basket may not fit if the plastic bit is in there, and it will only make cleaning and such harder. No reason not to remove it if you successfully go non-pressurised.


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## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

Dylan said:


> A non-pressurised basket may not fit if the plastic bit is in there, and it will only make cleaning and such harder. No reason not to remove it if you successfully go non-pressurised.


ah fair enough, I might look at my old machines handle and see if that will fit too


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Another member a while back went past the point of no return and just lopped the bottom off his pressurised basket with a Dremel. It wasn't on a B2C mind but it worked out for him I think.


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## Owen (Apr 30, 2014)

Dylan said:


> Another member a while back went past the point of no return and just lopped the bottom off his pressurised basket with a Dremel. It wasn't on a B2C mind but it worked out for him I think.


bottomless would be pretty awesome... thought I might buy a spare before I go doing something like that! haha


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Owen said:


> bottomless would be pretty awesome... thought I might buy a spare before I go doing something like that! haha


I dont mean cut off the bottom of the PF, but the bottom half of the basket, so as to remove the pressurised element of it.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Dylan said:


> I dont mean cut off the bottom of the PF, but the bottom half of the basket, so as to remove the pressurised element of it.


You cant really do that, unless the basket is real underneath (i.e. lots of holes then a second bottom with just one hole).

Better to just buy the one for £2.50, but you would still need to remove the plastic thing from the PF


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

aaronb said:


> You cant really do that, unless the basket is real underneath (i.e. lots of holes then a second bottom with just one hole).
> 
> Better to just buy the one for £2.50, but you would still need to remove the plastic thing from the PF


Thats what it looks like from the photo on the last page,

But I didnt realise there was one for £2.50, that is the easier option.


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## PeterF (Aug 25, 2014)

Is it worth all the hassle? I would simply trade it in for a Gaggia Classic, which would give you a better tasting coffee in the cup.


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## aignas (Nov 10, 2014)

I just wanted to chime in as I have a very similar machine (EC 820.B), which looks the same and is priced similarly. I haven't read the whole thread but this is what I do to get better shots out of this machine:

1. Dose for the double basket - 12-13g

2. Flush the group-head for a few seconds before putting the portafilter in.

3. Heat your cup using hot water from a kettle (I do not use hot water from the machine, as it tends to destabilise the boiler)

4. Optional, but useful: use something similar to the Gaggia temp surfing method:






5. Use scales to know when to stop the extraction. I bought scales with 0.1g precision and use it to measure how much am I extracting.So for 12-13g of coffee, I get 24-26g espresso. I tamp/select the grind such that the extraction takes about 30s. I found this tip of using scales to measure the espresso recipe (water/coffee ratio) on chefsteps.com espresso tutorial.

Hope that helps.


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