# Why are my espresso shots so inconsistent?



## joshb (Apr 23, 2017)

Hi all - relative newbie, but enjoying learning. Currently using a Sage Dual Boiler to pull single shots, 6s pre-infusion then 26s full pressure draw time. Sage Smart grinder pro. Also have a Rhinowares tamper to keep the tamping as consistent as possible.

I noticed my shots were variable, so bought a scale and with same beans, same grind settings, same machine settings, single shot basket, and same tamp I've had the following results over the past 2 days:

Grind weight -> coffee weight

14.2g -> 37.5g

14.5g -> 23.1g

13.9g -> 42.7g

14.4g -> 29.3g

14.1g -> 43.9g

14.3g -> 36.6g

14.5g -> 28.9g

As you can see there is not that much variability in the weight of the grounds, but a huge variance in the amount of coffee....! I'm keeping everything as consistent as I know how to. What's happening and how can I improve this? Is it related entirely to the small differences in the weight of the ground coffee? Any advice appreciated.

Josh


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Need more info. Are you sure you are using the single basket as I doubt you would get 14 gms in, and are you using the pressurised on non pressurised? I suspect your grinder is the loose link here if your other variables remain the same. If you weigh the output out by placing your cup on scales and taring, when you pull a shot you enjoy then you know the input and output and thats a starting point. There is a lot difference e.g. 14,5 gm giving both 23.1 and 28.9


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I'm voting inconsistent due to distribution and tamping technique - that seems a big variation to blame on the grinder.

On the very fast (heavier output) shots, did you notice blonding sooner and a lighter mouthfeel from the coffee? I suspect you may not be distributing evenly and, with the excessively fast shots, channelling is probably the cause.

There are a few really good videos on YouTube RE Espresso Distribution and some good articles.

I have learnt to tap the basket on the side to spread evenly, then vertically on the counter to collapse the mound before tamping. Of the various distribution techniques I have read about and tried myself, this seems to be the most reliable for me.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

But the Sage grinder is wildly inconsistent.......what do you expect for £199?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

@joshb there is quite a difference in the weight of the grounds, it only takes seconds to get the doses to 0.1g

It looks like you are killing the shot at a given time, then recording the weight? Try killing it at your target weight in the cup & recording the time.


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## joshb (Apr 23, 2017)

Thanks for the advice. Forgot to say that I'm using the non-pressurised single basket.

Interesting about the distribution: will look at some videos, as channeling sounds like a possible culprit...!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

You simply cannot get 14 gms into a single basket and if you did, then you would have to compress the grind so tightly that water would not get through.....


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## joshb (Apr 23, 2017)

I genuinely am using the single basket that came with the machine, and it holds the weight. Bought some slim scales last week and have double-checked them. I use a flat tamp (consistent depth). Maybe should go with less weight of grounds and better distribution.

As for timing the shot - the Sage machine has a built in timer, so I felt it was easier to stick with time as the consistent element. Will try stopping at same weight and checking the time.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

joshb said:


> Sage Smart grinder pro.
> 
> I noticed my shots were variable


Make sure you purge the grinder well to get rid of retained grinds in the chamber / chute.

Your inconsistency *may be* due to the fact that your coffee basket contains a mixture of stale and fresh coffee grinds.

I am not sure what's the retention on the sage, but, to start with purge 7g before a session.

If the retention is in the chute, you can technically smell the freshness of the beans. Purge a few grams. Check. Then do it again. When you notice the wonderful smell of fresh coffee begin ground, stop. That's not a very scientific approach, but it helps as initial guidelines.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Sage should really do a grinder to match the quality of their dual boiler, I know they sell as matched designs and fit under cupboards but really it needs bigger burrs in a bigger machine that still fits under the cupboard. I actually prefer Grinders that don't look like the machine, let them stand as equipment in their own right not as an accessory, I have even begun to appreciate the ugly mf that is the mythos as an example of function over form - ie "if it works well then it looks good" mind you some wooden sides on it would help a lot.


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## joshb (Apr 23, 2017)

The grinder came with the machine as part of a package deal. I was quite (ok, very!) budget-constrained and it sounded like a good intro deal from Harts of Stur.

Was at London coffee festival and looking at new machines, but could realistically only afford to upgrade either grinder *or* machine. And tbh I'd prefer to work on my technique to get things as good as possible with current kit.

Maybe I should switch to pulling double shots as sounds like it's easier to get consistency..


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

joshb said:


> I genuinely am using the single basket that came with the machine, and it holds the weight. Bought some slim scales last week and have double-checked them. I use a flat tamp (consistent depth). Maybe should go with less weight of grounds and better distribution.
> 
> As for timing the shot - the Sage machine has a built in timer, so I felt it was easier to stick with time as the consistent element. Will try stopping at same weight and checking the time.


Dump the single basket ( if that it what it is ) . Coffee need headroom in a basket , not just filled to the top ..

How many baskets did you get with the machine ?


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## joshb (Apr 23, 2017)

It came with 4 baskets - pressurised and non-pressurised, single and double. I've put away the pressurised ones and been using the non-pressurised single


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Change the Volumetrics setting from Time in Seconds to Volume in ml. You'll end up with a tighter grouping on the shot weight in the cup.

focus on shot prep being more consistent too obviously


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

joshb said:


> It came with 4 baskets - pressurised and non-pressurised, single and double. I've put away the pressurised ones and been using the non-pressurised single


Ok great , now put away the single basket . 14 g is way to much for it .

Following any other advice before this , will be irrelevant ...


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## PeterF (Aug 25, 2014)

Longer term you really need a better grinder. They are most important link in the chain!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

So true.


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

joshb said:


> The grinder came with the machine as part of a package deal. I was quite (ok, very!) budget-constrained and it sounded like a good intro deal from Harts of Stur.
> 
> Was at London coffee festival and looking at new machines, but could realistically only afford to upgrade either grinder *or* machine. And tbh I'd prefer to work on my technique to get things as good as possible with current kit.
> 
> Maybe I should switch to pulling double shots as sounds like it's easier to get consistency..


You really don't need to upgrade your machine, it is very capable. A better grinder would help, but prep is important with a lot of grinders.

MrBoots2u is right, use the double basket and check your dose. It's possible with 14g in the single that the puck is being disturbed by the shower screen, which could explain your inconsistent results. Lock the portafilter in then take it out and check there is no indentation in the puck


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

joshb said:


> The grinder came with the machine as part of a package deal. I was quite (ok, very!) budget-constrained and it sounded like a good intro deal from Harts of Stur.
> 
> Was at London coffee festival and looking at new machines, but could realistically only afford to upgrade either grinder *or* machine. And tbh I'd prefer to work on my technique to get things as good as possible with current kit.
> 
> Maybe I should switch to pulling double shots as sounds like it's easier to get consistency..


You really don't need to upgrade your machine, it is very capable. A better grinder would help, but prep is important with a lot of grinders.

MrBoots2u is right, use the double basket and check your dose. It's possible with 14g in the single that the puck is being disturbed by the shower screen, which could explain your inconsistent results. Lock the portafilter in then take it out and check there is no indentation in the puck


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Agree with above re 14g in the single basket.

In fairness I struggle using the single basket and I'd probably recommend moving to the double and dose 18g. I've got a sage DB and it's a fantastic machine.

I've got mine paired with a much better grinder but you should be able to good results with the sage grinder, it more than capable of getting good results for espresso.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

What beans are you using?


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## Atpinhos (Apr 23, 2017)

I am using Delta "diamond" and they are good


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Atpinhos said:


> I am using Delta "diamond" and they are good


Just had a quick look. The blend that popped up was a robusta/arabica blend. Not so good


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Atpinhos said:


> I am using Delta "diamond" and they are good


Do you know the roast date? It sounds like your set up is more than capable of making good espresso and the only variable you haven't changed is the beans. Maybe try ordering some new beans from someone like Rave or a local roaster and see how you get on.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nopapercup said:


> Do you know the roast date? It sounds like your set up is more than capable of making good espresso and the only variable you haven't changed is the beans. Maybe try ordering some new beans from someone like Rave or a local roaster and see how you get on.


Not sure how the beans know how to change the weight of shot in the cup?


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

MWJB said:


> Not sure how the beans know how to change the weight of shot in the cup?


I thought Atpinhos was referring to inconsistent coffee as not very good so if he/she is using stale beans then it may be a factor. If all they're after is a consistent output then stop or remove the cup when you reach the desired amount.


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## joshb (Apr 23, 2017)

OP here. I get my beans delivered from Pact. They're usually roasted at most a week prior to delivery. Always get an espresso blend, but it depends what they have available.

With 14g in the single basket I get a definite shower imprint before pulling the shot. Am going to switch to 18g in double basket. Thank you all for the advice.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Are you single dosing the grinder or grinding when it is full until it empty?


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