# New to home espresso



## FlatWhitey (Apr 15, 2020)

Afternoon Coffe Forums,

Fellow UK new member here. Just obtained my first home espresso machine, the predictable early Gaggia Classic. Already reduced the OPV to 10 bar static with VST basket now in use.

I've been into V60 coffee for a year now, and it is what held off the Classicitis as it was such a low outlay inroad into home coffee try-outs.

I've had a Gaggia MDF for all this time, and now realising it may lack the tweaking needed for home espresso - it's been great for filter, but I'm now stuck between just two settings for the Classic so I suspect it's time to look for an additional/replacement grinder.

Looking forward to reading more here and interacting with the knowledge source that is this forum.

Hugh


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Welcome to the money hole ?


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## FlatWhitey (Apr 15, 2020)

allikat said:


> Welcome to the money hole ?


 Cheers! I'm already buying new shoes for the Gaggia (I see some very nice low profile drip trays on here) and the Niche Zero seems to get very good press too, but then it's a grinder that's more than double the value of the machine!

I know you're supposed to put more into the grinder than the machine, but that seems like a sure fire way to feel the need to move on from the Classic all too quickly...


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Welcome. Espresso is quite a rabbit hole to fall down!

I had a Gaggia Classic as my first machine and it served me very well. As far as getting a better grinder than the machine I would say -

1. The Classic can produce GREAT coffee you can add a PID to improve temp stability and play with different temperatures to extend it's 'life'.

2. If you go for a good grinder now it could easily serve you if you did decide to upgrade to say a nice HX machine in the future and doing it like that would be a lot cheaper in the long run.

The Niche is a great grinder from what I read. Another grinder at a more reasonable price point to consider is the Eureka Mignon Specilita, it is a very popular choice due to its quality and performance. I can do you one for £355 if you are interested.


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## FlatWhitey (Apr 15, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Welcome. Espresso is quite a rabbit hole to fall down!
> 
> I had a Gaggia Classic as my first machine and it served me very well. As far as getting a better grinder than the machine I would say -
> 
> ...


 Hi Black Cat Coffee,

Thank you for the welcome and for the suggestions - I've heard of the PID from Auber and MrShades before so I'll be reading up on those. At present, I'd like to get the grinder sorted though, as I suspect that's the biggest limitation at present and I like your thinking on it being a money saver in the long run!

I've not heard about the Eureka Mignon Specilita before, so I'll look into it further, thank you for the offer and suggestion. From a quick glance it appears to be a dedicated espresso grinder rather than suitable for filter? I'd like a multifunction grinder rather than having to keep ahold of the MDF (kitchen surface space...)


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

Grinder-wise, I've been using the Eureka Silenzia for a little bit and a Sette 270Wi for a while now - I like them both for different reasons: the taste is definitely more "broad" with the Sette - the result of greater variety of group sizes from a conical vs flat burr... but the more "flat" taste of the Eureka suits milky drinks - also it is near silent which is a big contrast to the Sette! I personally haven't been tempted by a Niche as I had the Sette already for conical zero retention grinding and I love the weight based dosing, it's so convenient.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

FlatWhitey said:


> Hi Black Cat Coffee,
> 
> Thank you for the welcome and for the suggestions - I've heard of the PID from Auber and MrShades before so I'll be reading up on those. At present, I'd like to get the grinder sorted though, as I suspect that's the biggest limitation at present and I like your thinking on it being a money saver in the long run!
> 
> I've not heard about the Eureka Mignon Specilita before, so I'll look into it further, thank you for the offer and suggestion. From a quick glance it appears to be a dedicated espresso grinder rather than suitable for filter? I'd like a multifunction grinder rather than having to keep ahold of the MDF (kitchen surface space...)


 Have a good read around the subject. There are a lot of decent grinders on the market. The Mignon is capable of grinding for either but in all honesty adjusting any grinder from espresso to drip and back again quickly becomes a total PITA. If you are concerned about counter space I would possibly advise picking up a good electric espresso grinder and then a good hand grinder to use for filter. Something like the Porlex Mini grinder would be super.


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

From all I heard, the Sette 270wi is an awesome grinder, I just wish it were a bit better built.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Welcome. Espresso is quite a rabbit hole to fall down!
> 
> I had a Gaggia Classic as my first machine and it served me very well. As far as getting a better grinder than the machine I would say -
> 
> ...


 Have you had feedback from people re: single dosing with the Eureka Mignon Specilita? I've read from others that if you don't mod it (with plastic tubing and plastic air compression bulbs for instance) or purge every time, you're getting old grounds day to day. For single dosing it seems options are Niche, mod something like a second hand SJ, or buy a new Mignon and mod it somehow.

I want a new grinder at some point but options for single dosing seem either expensive (£500) or undesirable (waste coffee, mod a lovely new shiny new machine, get a tank of an SJ and somehow mod that).


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Your options for single dosing is pretty much the Niche or perhaps the Barratze Sette, which has a similar design philosophy. Unless you want to throw 800 or more at the issue. But it shouldn't be hard to make the Sette do similar things to the Niche, it's a conical burr machine with a straight through design.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

CocoLoco said:


> Have you had feedback from people re: single dosing with the Eureka Mignon Specilita? I've read from others that if you don't mod it (with plastic tubing and plastic air compression bulbs for instance) or purge every time, you're getting old grounds day to day. For single dosing it seems options are Niche, mod something like a second hand SJ, or buy a new Mignon and mod it somehow.
> 
> I want a new grinder at some point but options for single dosing seem either expensive (£500) or undesirable (waste coffee, mod a lovely new shiny new machine, get a tank of an SJ and somehow mod that).


 Sette is absolutely an option for zero retention. I got one of the first one on the market that ended in the weighing error debacle. I am told this is all fixed with the WI but it put me off I am afraid to say.

As far as the Mignon goes it could be used to single dose. You don't get too much 'popcorning' of beans. By my own test retention is around the 0.5 to 1g mark. Pretty good for a flat burr grinder out the box but not as good as the Niche from what I understand. You could do some purging if your really want to be absolutely sure but I would be seriously impressed if someone could taste 1g of day old coffee in a blind taste I have to say!


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> Have you had feedback from people re: single dosing with the Eureka Mignon Specilita? I've read from others that if you don't mod it (with plastic tubing and plastic air compression bulbs for instance) or purge every time, you're getting old grounds day to day. For single dosing it seems options are Niche, mod something like a second hand SJ, or buy a new Mignon and mod it somehow.
> 
> I want a new grinder at some point but options for single dosing seem either expensive (£500) or undesirable (waste coffee, mod a lovely new shiny new machine, get a tank of an SJ and somehow mod that).


 I use my Eureka all the time for single dosing and get very very little retention (the Silenzia and Specialita are hardly different in that respect from what I understand)... I have ordered a bulb and tube to create a single dose funnel just because the plastic lid on the hopper is way too snug to be put on and off regularly!


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Sette is absolutely an option for zero retention. I got one of the first one on the market that ended in the weighing error debacle. I am told this is all fixed with the WI but it put me off I am afraid to say.
> 
> As far as the Mignon goes it could be used to single dose. You don't get too much 'popcorning' of beans. By my own test retention is around the 0.5 to 1g mark. Pretty good for a flat burr grinder out the box but not as good as the Niche from what I understand. You could do some purging if your really want to be absolutely sure but I would be seriously impressed if someone could taste 1g of day old coffee in a blind taste I have to say!


 Aah yes, the Sette. I'd ruled that out as Horsham have the 270Wi for the same price as the Niche and I'd read they were unreliable and not the best made. Whole Latte Love rate them but for that money I'd go with the Niche.

Mignon - That's pretty low retention, I too wonder if I could taste that amount of old coffee in 18g worth (I drink Americano too). Anyway, thanks, Ill bear in mind BlackCat when I make a decision. I'm trying to hold out until Black Friday at least, but this lockdown has me with an itchy credit card finger


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Kannan said:


> I use my Eureka all the time for single dosing and get very very little retention (the Silenzia and Specialita are hardly different in that respect from what I understand)... I have ordered a bulb and tube to create a single dose funnel just because the plastic lid on the hopper is way too snug to be put on and off regularly!


 Thank you, that's good to know. I was considering a Manuale too, but they seem very hard to get. And the Eureka website says they are twice as wide as the Silenzio and Specialita, which is a bit of an issue for me.


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

Just to add, one of the Mignon range has larger burrs - not sure which one, you'll need to check... also I do understand one of them has a coarser burr set for drip/pour as opposed to espresso grinding. I love the grind I'm getting from it at the moment, who knows I might change my mind when my Decent arrives


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Kannan said:


> Just to add, one of the Mignon range has larger burrs - not sure which one, you'll need to check... also I do understand one of them has a coarser burr set for drip/pour as opposed to espresso grinding. I love the grind I'm getting from it at the moment, who knows I might change my mind when my Decent arrives


 Specialita has the larger burr set.

The Mignon Brew Pro has a special brew burr set.


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@CocoLoco - Might want to double check the Manuale sizing, the one I bought for my parents was pretty much the same body unit as the Silenzio I had?

Only differences I could see was no timed dosing and being much louder.


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

Thanks so to Coffee Bean for my Mignon so speedily delivered btw, really loving it (aside from the sticky hopper lid  )... exactly what I expected from a flat burr set actually and super quiet and solidly built - I just like using it, even though the close to perfect weight dosing of the Sette is much more convenient, there's something very satisfying about the Mignon.


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## FlatWhitey (Apr 15, 2020)

allikat said:


> From all I heard, the Sette 270wi is an awesome grinder, I just wish it were a bit better built.





allikat said:


> Your options for single dosing is pretty much the Niche or perhaps the Barratze Sette, which has a similar design philosophy. Unless you want to throw 800 or more at the issue. But it shouldn't be hard to make the Sette do similar things to the Niche, it's a conical burr machine with a straight through design.





BlackCatCoffee said:


> Sette is absolutely an option for zero retention. I got one of the first one on the market that ended in the weighing error debacle. I am told this is all fixed with the WI but it put me off I am afraid to say.
> 
> As far as the Mignon goes it could be used to single dose. You don't get too much 'popcorning' of beans. By my own test retention is around the 0.5 to 1g mark. Pretty good for a flat burr grinder out the box but not as good as the Niche from what I understand. You could do some purging if your really want to be absolutely sure but I would be seriously impressed if someone could taste 1g of day old coffee in a blind taste I have to say!





CocoLoco said:


> Aah yes, the Sette. I'd ruled that out as Horsham have the 270Wi for the same price as the Niche and I'd read they were unreliable and not the best made. Whole Latte Love rate them but for that money I'd go with the Niche.
> 
> Mignon - That's pretty low retention, I too wonder if I could taste that amount of old coffee in 18g worth (I drink Americano too). Anyway, thanks, Ill bear in mind BlackCat when I make a decision. I'm trying to hold out until Black Friday at least, but this lockdown has me with an itchy credit card finger


 Many thanks to you all for your input, and others, in this thread. It's a great welcome to see so many knowledgeable people who are also willing to share what they know with a newcomer. Thank you!

I was doing some reading around on here last night, and after thinking more about what @BlackCatCoffeesaid about manuals, I've come across the reivew of the 1Zpresso JX Pro manual grinder - this seems to be a seriously good option for home espresso.

I have no concerns about the manual side of things as I make one or two coffees per day total, max dose being 19g (any more and I go V60).

This small form factor would enable me to keep the MDF for filter grinding (given I grind more coffee for filter than espresso in one go) and naturally there's the cost 'saving' too for the £189 for the 1Zpresso compared to the £499 Niche Zero.

Is there a flaw in my thinking, such that I'll end up just buying the NZ anyway after some time as I 'grow out' of the 1Zpresso JX Pro?


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

If you are happy to grind manually I think you would be very happy with it. I think @Cuprajake just got the same grinder? Perhaps he can advise.


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## FlatWhitey (Apr 15, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> If you are happy to grind manually I think you would be very happy with it. I think @Cuprajake just got the same grinder? Perhaps he can advise.


 If I do go down this route, do you sell these? Given all your input the least I can do is obtain it from you.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Im really impressed with the 1z pro,

My propper basket has just turned up so can let you know how it performs


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

FlatWhitey said:


> If I do go down this route, do you sell these? Given all your input the least I can do is obtain it from you.


 I appreciate that but I do not sell them. The only hand grinder I offer is the Hario Skelton and although it is a great grinder it is a different class to the 1z.

I am always happy to help and like people to get the best for them, if I offer it then great but rather you get the right tool for the job ?

If you would like to support, have a think about me next time you need some coffee. We have some GREAT coffee coming in in the next week or two.


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## Skizz (Feb 10, 2020)

Fairly certain I first saw this on this forum but, on the subject of single dosing a Mignon this chap seems to have found a convincing solution: Single dosing mignon

And the bellows he used are available here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233556074447


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

Skizz said:


> Fairly certain I first saw this on this forum but, on the subject of single dosing a Mignon this chap seems to have found a convincing solution: Single dosing mignon
> 
> And the bellows he used are available here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233556074447


 Indeed  my bellows arrived this morning!


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## FlatWhitey (Apr 15, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> If you are happy to grind manually I think you would be very happy with it. I think @Cuprajake just got the same grinder? Perhaps he can advise.





Cuprajake said:


> Im really impressed with the 1z pro,
> 
> My propper basket has just turned up so can let you know how it performs





BlackCatCoffee said:


> I appreciate that but I do not sell them. The only hand grinder I offer is the Hario Skelton and although it is a great grinder it is a different class to the 1z.
> 
> I am always happy to help and like people to get the best for them, if I offer it then great but rather you get the right tool for the job ?
> 
> If you would like to support, have a think about me next time you need some coffee. We have some GREAT coffee coming in in the next week or two.


 Hi again BlackCat and Cuprjake - thank you both for your responses once again.

And I'll be sure to check out what you have when I'm next ordering coffee. Just received a kilo this week (including some interesting sounding decaf to enable me to keep using the Gaggia as much as possible!) so once I'm through that it'll be on to you.

Now to see if Bella Barista will sell the JX Pro given what their website states about sales...


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## dbez70 (Jan 16, 2020)

Hey everyone. I bought a Eureka Mignon Specialita a few months ago. Quick question... I am finding that when changing my grind I am only seeing the results about 2/3 coffees later? Even if I make the change in grind and purge out 10gs of coffee to put in the bin before making a new one it still won't show up till say after the next coffee? I would say I'm consistent in my process ever time etc?

Is this normal? Im happy with the grinder but now wondering whether I should have gone with the NICHE as if I only have a 250g bag of new coffee it won't last long when dialling in?

thanks for you help...


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

Watch this and see if it helps:

Eureka Mignon Single Dosing






I ordered the puffer bulb thingy after that and you'd be surprised at how much comes out after even doing a purge...


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## FlatWhitey (Apr 15, 2020)

FlatWhitey said:


> Now to see if Bella Barista will sell the JX Pro given what their website states about sales...


 For others interested in ordering, you'll need to email (not call) Bella Barista to check if they can send you what you want as they're running a skeleton service given the circumstances. JX Pro inbound!


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## jeff-72 (Apr 14, 2020)

Talking of grinders, what do people think about the Fiorenzato F64? There's a used one on eBay at the moment. Is it worth bidding on?


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## FlatWhitey (Apr 15, 2020)

jeff-72 said:


> Talking of grinders, what do people think about the Fiorenzato F64? There's a used one on eBay at the moment. Is it worth bidding on?


 Hi Jeff,

I cannot make any comment on the quality of the grinder, just that the listing I see for this (the only one that has bidding) is in Edinburgh and despite having a postage cost advertised, states in the advert 'Collection only'.

Perhaps worth checking with the seller what the situation is.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

jeff-72 said:


> Talking of grinders, what do people think about the Fiorenzato F64? There's a used one on eBay at the moment. Is it worth bidding on?


 I have used one of these in the past, they also come badged up as San Remo and a couple of others. In my opinion they seemed to put the budget in to the colour display, hydrometer and didn't really worry too much about how it actually ground coffee. To change the dosing time was a total pain, it was buried in a sub menu behind button presses and holds.

Not a grinder I would recommend. Sorry.


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## jeff-72 (Apr 14, 2020)

FlatWhitey said:


> Hi Jeff,
> I cannot make any comment on the quality of the grinder, just that the listing I see for this (the only one that has bidding) is in Edinburgh and despite having a postage cost advertised, states in the advert 'Collection only'.
> Perhaps worth checking with the seller what the situation is.


Hanks FlatWhitey - good point. I'll check.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jeff-72 (Apr 14, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> I have used one of these in the past, they also come badged up as San Remo and a couple of others. In my opinion they seemed to put the budget in to the colour display, hydrometer and didn't really worry too much about how it actually ground coffee. To change the dosing time was a total pain, it was buried in a sub menu behind button presses and holds.
> Not a grinder I would recommend. Sorry.


Thanks BlackCatCoffee - that's really good to know. Sounds like not one to chase.

Beyond this particular grinder, do you have a view about using commercial grinders at home? Is it a good idea, or would it be better to get the best grinder designed for domestic use I can afford? Any advice gratefully received.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

jeff-72 said:


> Thanks BlackCatCoffee - that's really good to know. Sounds like not one to chase.
> 
> Beyond this particular grinder, do you have a view about using commercial grinders at home? Is it a good idea, or would it be better to get the best grinder designed for domestic use I can afford? Any advice gratefully received.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 It really boils down to what you are prepared to spend and often what your significant other will let you get away with taking up work top space! There is no doubt you can pick up a bargain in the Mazzer Super Jolly. They are solid grinders and if you can find one that hasn't had too tough of a life in a cafe they will last forever in the home environment. There are lots of mods to improve their home usability too. All that said, there is no getting away from the fact that they are pretty large for a home worktop. A Mazzer Mini would be a great home grinder but they tend to go for quite a lot more. Others to look out for are the Compak / Fracino K6 or Macap MX line.

If you are looking at domestic grinders then I would consider the Eureka Mignon Specialita, we offer them at £355 at the moment. They are solid grinders although the burrs are smaller at 55mm than most commercial units. You get very consistent and speedy output for the money though.


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## jeff-72 (Apr 14, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> It really boils down to what you are prepared to spend and often what your significant other will let you get away with taking up work top space! There is no doubt you can pick up a bargain in the Mazzer Super Jolly. They are solid grinders and if you can find one that hasn't had too tough of a life in a cafe they will last forever in the home environment. There are lots of mods to improve their home usability too. All that said, there is no getting away from the fact that they are pretty large for a home worktop. A Mazzer Mini would be a great home grinder but they tend to go for quite a lot more. Others to look out for are the Compak / Fracino K6 or Macap MX line.
> 
> If you are looking at domestic grinders then I would consider the Eureka Mignon Specialita, we offer them at £355 at the moment. They are solid grinders although the burrs are smaller at 55mm than most commercial units. You get very consistent and speedy output for the money though.


 Thanks so much. That is super helpful. I will check out your recommendations.


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

I have a Compak k6 and it's making me a fine cup right now. If you're seriously looking at used commercial gear then wait a little. When this situation relaxes a little, there will be a new supply from those whose businesses didn't survive. With everything locked down, the usual flow of used gear has stalled.

The only real downsides to commercial machines is they're built like tanks, which is their upside as well. They're big and heavy things, built to work hard for years. I may never need to buy a new grinder for the rest of my life.


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## hankTremain (Apr 1, 2020)

allikat said:


> When this situation relaxes a little, there will be a new supply from those whose businesses didn't survive.


 Had the same thought. it's sad.
My fear is for the impact on cafes after lock-down. If business is reduced due to a boom in home brewing, fear of a second wave and people living with a reduced budget, keeping a business going when the government are no longer helping with staff wadges could be as hard if not harder than the lock-down situation.

Either way there's likley to be a spike in secondhand commercial coffee equipment over the coming months.

...but maybe this will lead to some new cafe openings?


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Some of those cafes were failing or upgrading anyway and a good amount of that gear was always going to end up on the market. There's always a flow of gear around. This has all been stopped and is piling up until it's allowed to move again. Even if no extra businesses fail from this, there will still be a flood of the gear that should have been dribbling onto the market over this time.


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## hankTremain (Apr 1, 2020)

allikat said:


> there will still be a flood of the gear that should have been dribbling onto the market over this time.


 true


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## Wisey (May 17, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Welcome. Espresso is quite a rabbit hole to fall down!
> 
> I had a Gaggia Classic as my first machine and it served me very well. As far as getting a better grinder than the machine I would say -
> 
> ...


 I'm completely new to this so please bear with -

what does PID mean?

im about to buy my first machine, looking at either sage barista express or the pro. Any advice?

The gagia classic seems to be very popular. I wouldn't be able to afford one of these plus a niche.....& a second hand machine, I'm not really technical so not sure I'd be able to take it apart...I have no idea what shower screens are etc!


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

Wisey said:


> what does PID mean


 PID is a more reliable way of keeping temperatures stable by predicting fluctuations (if you know anything about maths, it stands for Proportional, Integral and Derivative)... Basically if you switch a heated element on or off you can control temperature, however that doesn't take into account how long something stays hot for, how quickly it might heat up or what the fluctuation might be once you reach the target temp due to internal or external factors... In simple terms a PID controller helps to keep (in this case the temperature of the water) at the set temp taking into account all other variables, which is one of the most important factors for brewing good espresso.


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