# Acaia Orbit



## Enea (Jun 7, 2020)

Just saw this:

https://acaia.co/blogs/news/new-collaboration-orbit-grinder-with-weber-workshops

Looks very promising, hope it comes with an integrated scale.

What we know so far:

64 mm flat burrs
Single dosing with low retention
Stepless grind adjustment
Maximum 1,000 rpm grind speed
Built for precise burr alignment
250 watt brushless DC motor


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Will probably be stupidly priced, though maybe the existing competition by comparable grinders will force the price down to something more reasonable around lagom levels. Not holding my breath.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Link above is a redirect via Facebook. The direct link is:

https://acaia.co/blogs/news/new-collaboration-orbit-grinder-with-weber-workshops


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Rob1 said:


> Will probably be stupidly priced, though maybe the existing competition by comparable grinders will force the price down to something more reasonable around lagom levels. Not holding my breath.


 Definitely do not. From their website:



> we're so excited to introduce you to a collaboration project that's been years in the making. *In tandem with **Weber Workshops*, we designed and created the Orbit single-dose grinder.


 Ain't gonna be cheap! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Roko (Apr 23, 2021)

If as they said it is to be priced at around 1500$, it would be a direct competitor to the Lagom P64.

I mean, ultimately these grinders are mostly for those who want to put SSP burrs in and have a Niche-like workflow. My DF64 is just fine for now but if they priced it at £1100 (which is 1500$ - and I know they won't, most likely they'll price it at £1450 or something) I could be tempted. Acaia's name means that most likely one would be able to easily purchase the grinder and/or bring it in for warranty locally from an authorised retailer.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Roko said:


> If as they said it is to be priced at around 1500$


 Where do you see this?


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## Roko (Apr 23, 2021)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Where do you see this?


 I've read it somewhere on Discord - I can't say whether it's accurate or not. But, other than the fact that it's two premium brands, 1500$ is a price that "makes sense". Acaia may have better economies of scale than Option-O (they already manufacture some grinders for Weber, not to mention their scales), and the motor itself is seemingly fixed RPM hence cheaper than that of the P64.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Roko said:


> Acaia may have better economies of *scale*


 Pretty sure they do! 🤣

Jokes aside, good point. Let's see what the price is. Very interesting though.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Roko said:


> I've read it somewhere on Discord - I can't say whether it's accurate or not. But, other than the fact that it's two premium brands, 1500$ is a price that "makes sense". Acaia may have better economies of scale than Option-O (they already manufacture some grinders for Weber, not to mention their scales), and the motor itself is seemingly fixed RPM hence cheaper than that of the P64.


 They just did a long, live video on Instagram. Said that the app could potentially adjust the motor rpm, don't know if that means the adjustability is already there or something they may add.

It had a system built into the carriers to align the burrs with screws to avoiding having to shim with foil. Same laborious process but at least no foil to dislodge every time you make an adjustment. Looks a more reasonable size to the Weber grinders one seen in person, it would look better in the home environment.

A lot of money for 64mm ssp burrs imo. Just get a use mazzer or df64 and spend some time aligning.


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## Roko (Apr 23, 2021)

newdent said:


> They just did a long, live video on Instagram. Said that the app could potentially adjust the motor rpm, don't know if that means the adjustability is already there or something they may add.
> 
> It had a system built into the carriers to align the burrs with screws to avoiding having to shim with foil. Same laborious process but at least no foil to dislodge every time you make an adjustment. Looks a more reasonable size to the Weber grinders one seen in person, it would look better in the home environment.
> 
> A lot of money for 64mm ssp burrs imo. Just get a use mazzer or df64 and spend some time aligning.


 Yes, I mean, ultimately it is a lot of money, but it definitely does have (just like the P64) some "quality of life" improvements. E.g. with the SJ or DF64 you'd have probably a bit more of a mess due to having to use the bellows, dosing the beans in looks far better on this (on my DF i have to remove the bellows cover, put beans in, put cover back on), the noise on the DF with SSP burrs is pretty awful, etc. None of these is worth the price gap, but I could see myself going for it regardless - if the price is actually going to be less than £1200 which it won't.


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

Enea said:


> Just saw this:
> 
> https://bit.ly/3le7MqM
> 
> ...


 Why would you want an integrated scale as it's a single dose grinder, you get the same amount you put in, like Niche. Am I missing something?


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

Roko said:


> Yes, I mean, ultimately it is a lot of money, but it definitely does have (just like the P64) some "quality of life" improvements. E.g. with the SJ or DF64 you'd have probably a bit more of a mess due to having to use the bellows, dosing the beans in looks far better on this (on my DF i have to remove the bellows cover, put beans in, put cover back on), the noise on the DF with SSP burrs is pretty awful, etc. None of these is worth the price gap, but I could see myself going for it regardless - if the price is actually going to be less than £1200 which it won't.


 Yes but a used Mazzer can be found in Spain for example for about 80-100€, the Daniel Wong kit I think it's about 150€ and a set of SSP burrs 200€, so this comes to a total of 450€....


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

profesor_historia said:


> Why would you want an integrated scale as it's a single dose grinder, you get the same amount you put in, like Niche. Am I missing something


 I agree. The only thing I can think of is that the scale could be used for dosing in, i.e.: the scale registers how much you put in rather than how much you get out. Now that, IMO, would be neat. But, if you use sigle dosing containers with pre-measured doses, then it becomes a superfluous accessory.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

It didn't appear to have integrated scales on the video and as mentioned - no need for it. Fair enough if it's got a hopper as it would be a way of controlling the dose weight.

It's nice looking, sounds like they want to put a lot more time in and make it better still. I like Acaia. I like that they offer software updates on their old scales to improve features, they are the only manufacturer I'd buy expensive scales from for sure.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

newdent said:


> It didn't appear to have integrated scales


 You are right. Looks like it became Chinese whispers. OP to be fair said "Looks very promising, *hope* it comes with an integrated scale."

Regardless, having a scale built in on a single dose grinder would add very little benefit for the majority of users.


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## Denis S (Jul 31, 2020)

Dont believe anything:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000308127468.html

For some reasons they pushed this release (2022?) rushed to the public and I feel that Steve did not research it more or prepare a speech with the most burning question, so the whole thing was a bit too neutral/dodgy, informative to the point they have something but dont know if it will be final.

Ultra, Max, Nautilus are have 0.3-0.4g dead space inside. Bentwood has 0.6g inside, Lagom a bit more for the p64.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@Denis S - What are you implying with the link from Ali Express? That the Orbit is that grinder just tilted? 🤔


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## Denis S (Jul 31, 2020)

Not implying anything. The above thing is on the market since 2018. They can ask the factory to make their grinder, since the soo slow processing of getting things done.

If you have your own factory to build grinders, then you have a much faster progress, but if you build them with someone on a contract things can get slower, to get prototypes to write what to modify, to send the upgrades to evaluate things again.

Clearly they have some design features that are "their own" and that are different than the grinder above. But those designs are already featured on other grinders, for example the big thread for the dial knob. That is already been on nautilus (a bigger thread than on ek43) but you are have humongous thread on Bentwood tot he points it's something like M200. Imagine turning a 20 cm+ thread to move 5 microns the distance between burrs versus moving a 3 cm thread to do so.

Also they speak about the bean loading mechanism upfront, that is something you find on grinders like Fuji Royal, ek43, bentwood, nautilus .

How I see this grinder on the market, it's with the same concept as niche or as other small products (see kopi grinder) it's a home appliance to go well into the kitchen, small and compact, to go under everyone's cabinets and to grind coffee. And that's pretty much it. It will not be the best grinder out there, it will be just a direct competitor to Lagom (that sells really well in the 1500-1700$ segment) and this grinder made by Acaia (products that I own but hate them) in collaboration with Weber (another guy who doesn't know how to build grinders, since the mighty eg1 stalls easy) will be in the same price range, so expect a 1500$ pre-order price in a fund raising campaign. That is what you do specially when you contact a bit factory to make 1000-5000 grinders for you, or even more. At the same time, you could say Weber will make the parts in the same factory he does the eg1/key grinders, who knows.

I'm just pointing out, there are things that are around for years and are not popular because they are made stamped by the mighty Acaia.

G-iota/df64 was launched in 2017 or 2018, and nobody care about it till last year when it exploded.


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## Enea (Jun 7, 2020)

profesor_historia said:


> Why would you want an integrated scale as it's a single dose grinder, you get the same amount you put in, like Niche. Am I missing something?


 Because I'm lazy as hell and dream of a single dose grinder where I put the beans in the little hopper, they're weighed right there and when it reaches the perfect weight I can open a little chute and TA-DAAA! :classic_biggrin:


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## Enea (Jun 7, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Link above is a redirect via Facebook. The direct link is:
> 
> https://acaia.co/blogs/news/new-collaboration-orbit-grinder-with-weber-workshops


 Thanks! I'll edit the link in the original post.

Edit: I can't :classic_sad:


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

All this hype about flat burrs made me cave, took the mazzer major out of the cupboard that I've never used, aligned the burrs (god, what an awful waste of 2 hours) and pulled some side by side shots with my niche and I still don't get all this hype about flat burrs. The niche was so bloody lovely to use in comparison and tasted better imo. You can all keep your crappy flat burrs! 😅


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@newdent - but was it dark roast, medium roast, light roast? 😬🧐

I have a Niche, wouldn't change it for the world, but always curious about conical vs flat dilemma! Let us know more please! 🤪


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @newdent - but was it dark roast, medium roast, light roast? 😬🧐
> 
> I have a Niche, wouldn't change it for the world, but always curious about conical vs flat dilemma! Let us know more please! 🤪


 It was a medium roast but quite a fruity blend, so thought it might be a good one for the flats.

Thing is, there definitely a difference but it's just like a remember with my SJ and mini, there is clarity there with flats but if there's a prominent flavour, it's very intense there's just no toning it down and it's overpowering, whereas the niche rounds things out, just feels more balanced.

I'm going to buy a few light roast filters and compare in that format instead, though I'm no expert when it comes to filter but plan to visit a local cafe that specialises in light roast and sell the coffee they brew so should know what I'm shooting for.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Also, I just couldn't use a flat burr grinder that uses the mazzer style adjustment ring any more, might be fine for filter. DF64 looks like its the same, no idea how easy it is to make micro adjustments on it.

Getting vaguely back on topic, the weber adjustment method looks much better and repeatable, so could get on board with that if I could justify spending that sort of money on a grinder and deemed that flat burrs were worth it.


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## Denis S (Jul 31, 2020)

It just seems you do not like overpowering clarity, fruity poking notes in your espresso, and that is really good and nice, but that is exactly why people love flats, cause they bring forward that fruits, the acidity, the sourness, the clarity. The fact that you can drink a cup and point out blueberries, while on Niche you can barely taste anything with such level of precision.

Also, niche is loved by medium to dark espresso bean drinkers, and that again is totally fine. It falls behind a lot when we are talking about light filter roasts used as espresso, unless you do some sort of bonanza a la Rao, where you pull 1-5 ratios to boost the EY%.


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @newdent - but was it dark roast, medium roast, light roast? 😬🧐
> 
> I have a Niche, wouldn't change it for the world, but always curious about conical vs flat dilemma! Let us know more please! 🤪


 You will change it sooner or later, believe me, in 5 years time I bet you'll have a different machine and grinder 😊😅😅.

Again, it doesn't make sense to compare an industrial Titan grinder designed for espresso with Niche, it's like comparing apples with oranges, imho.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Denis S said:


> It just seems you do not like overpowering clarity, fruity poking notes in your espresso, and that is really good and nice, but that is exactly why people love flats, cause they bring forward that fruits, the acidity, the sourness, the clarity. The fact that you can drink a cup and point out blueberries, while on Niche you can barely taste anything with such level of precision.
> 
> Also, niche is loved by medium to dark espresso bean drinkers, and that again is totally fine. It falls behind a lot when we are talking about light filter roasts used as espresso, unless you do some sort of bonanza a la Rao, where you pull 1-5 ratios to boost the EY%.


 That's not my experience with the niche though, I can pick out fruit notes of they are there but the shot is more rounded in general.

I find the flats put the spotlight on a particular flavour (not necessarily the one you want) and it dominates and tweaking parameters will not help balance it. Whereas with the niche, it seems more reactive to adjustments to the parameters. It does depend on the flavour profile of course, usually blueberries in particular are pleasant, even with milk but yellow fruits, cranberries are just to intense at least in an espresso. Obviously this is just to my taste.

I think comparing the burrs of the major and niche is fine, they're both espresso focused and useability is important. I've got 5 different bags on the freezer that I switch between on the niche and it's a breeze, just wouldn't bother trying on the major. I think it would be OK for filter as the shoddy adjustment mechanism won't need such fine adjustment for that.


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

newdent said:


> That's not my experience with the niche though, I can pick out fruit notes of they are there but the shot is more rounded in general.
> 
> I find the flats put the spotlight on a particular flavour (not necessarily the one you want) and it dominates and tweaking parameters will not help balance it. Whereas with the niche, it seems more reactive to adjustments to the parameters. It does depend on the flavour profile of course, usually blueberries in particular are pleasant, even with milk but yellow fruits, cranberries are just to intense at least in an espresso. Obviously this is just to my taste.
> 
> I think comparing the burrs of the major and niche is fine, they're both espresso focused and useability is important. I've got 5 different bags on the freezer that I switch between on the niche and it's a breeze, just wouldn't bother trying on the major. I think it would be OK for filter as the shoddy adjustment mechanism won't need such fine adjustment for that.


 Where did you read that Niche's burrs are espresso focused??😅 It's a single dose grinder designed for methods from Turkish to cold brew while the Major only for espresso. Never heard of anyone changing the grind on Mazzer from espresso to brew and back....

I think sometimes we are confused with certain concepts....


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

profesor_historia said:


> Never heard of anyone changing the grind on Mazzer from espresso to brew and back....
> 
> I think sometimes we are confused with certain concepts....


 But that's because the grinder body is designed as such, not because of the burrs. Let's not forget, for instance, the Niche is an all-rounder. Yet, it uses Mazzer Kony burrs. So, tagging along your quote, I also never heard of anyone changing the grind on a Mazzer Kony from espresso to brew and back. Doesn't mean that they can't - it's just impractical.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Denis S said:


> The fact that you can drink a cup and point out blueberries, while on Niche you can barely taste anything with such level of precision.


 Speak for yourself. I have no problem picking out the flavour notes at all. Some people might be overwhelmed by the flavour profile of conicals but fortunately I'm not one of them.

Interestingly if you look at some of the threads where people have been blind tasting coffee (e.g. the LSOL threads) and they're all describing the flavours they get most of them don't come close to what is written on the bag. I took part in one and watched people saying they were pulling shots short to highlight acidity and were banging on about exotic flavour notes. The thing I took away from it was people will convince themselves of anything if they think they're doing the 'right' things and they've got the 'right' equipment, when the reality is they're probably pulling underextracted and sour shots that they've grown accustomed to and learned to enjoy as an acquired taste because they think that's how things 'should' be...In the one I took part in I got 3 out of 4 flavour notes at least compared to many people with flats and ek43s who somehow managed to get citric acidity from a brazilian natural described as having floral notes, grape, chocolate and nougat (I reached for chocolate digestive rather than chocolate and nougat...not had nougat in about two decades though so I wouldn't really recognise it).


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Denis S said:


> It just seems you do not like overpowering clarity, fruity poking notes in your espresso, and that is really good and nice, but that is exactly why people love flats, cause they bring forward that fruits, the acidity, the sourness, the clarity. The fact that you can drink a cup and point out blueberries, while on Niche you can barely taste anything with such level of precision.
> 
> Also, niche is loved by medium to dark espresso bean drinkers, and that again is totally fine. It falls behind a lot when we are talking about light filter roasts used as espresso, unless you do some sort of bonanza a la Rao, where you pull 1-5 ratios to boost the EY%.


 That is just your experience, and while a one valid one is not a transferable fact .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

profesor_historia said:


> Where did you read that Niche's burrs are espresso focused??😅 It's a single dose grinder designed for methods from Turkish to cold brew while the Major only for espresso. Never heard of anyone changing the grind on Mazzer from espresso to brew and back....
> 
> I think sometimes we are confused with certain concepts....


 You can change most grinders back and forth from espresso to filter ( you can on a mythos ) doesnt mean it will be an easy experience for the user.

Niche burrs = same set as a kony mazzer which is an espresso gridner. What makes the niche more useable is its retention and adjustment mec


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

profesor_historia said:


> Where did you read that Niche's burrs are espresso focused??😅 It's a single dose grinder designed for methods from Turkish to cold brew while the Major only for espresso. Never heard of anyone changing the grind on Mazzer from espresso to brew and back....
> 
> I think sometimes we are confused with certain concepts....


 @MediumRoastSteam got in there first, the niche burrs are from a mazzer Kony, also a commercial grinder and almost certainly designed with espresso in mind... I agree that someone was confused with certain concepts! 😉😆


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

The difference between conicals and flats is interesting really in terms of taste. I have a good 83mm flat and the shots do have more clarity.......but they are less interesting, for lack of a better word. For me the the flavours don't get lost moving to the Niche at all, they are rounded or 'integrated'. I find I can pull longer ratios from the same dose and get a similar body/mouth feel without losing flavour. In other words it gives me what I want in a way that's more efficient in terms of coffee grounds used and yield. The Niche doesn't give as much clarity but that's not to say there is no clarity: on a scale of 1-10 the flat would be a 9 and the Niche would be a 7 or 8. At least for me.

Some people drink Whisky at barrel proof and can't taste anything but tannins and alcohol burn. Some people drink Jack Daniels and look at me like a crazy person when I tell them I hate it because it tastes like a sack of dirty Bananas....but it contains isoamyl acetate they just can't detect it over the alcohol (even though its only 40%) and tannins. Point being the stuff that contributes to flavour is still there in the espresso assuming a normal extraction, some people just can't detect it.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Rob1 said:


> The difference between conicals and flats is interesting really in terms of taste. I have a good 83mm flat and the shots do have more clarity.......but they are less interesting, for lack of a better word. For me the the flavours don't get lost moving to the Niche at all, they are rounded or 'integrated'. I find I can pull longer ratios from the same dose and get a similar body/mouth feel without losing flavour. In other words it gives me what I want in a way that's more efficient in terms of coffee grounds used and yield. The Niche doesn't give as much clarity but that's not to say there is no clarity: on a scale of 1-10 the flat would be a 9 and the Niche would be a 7 or 8. At least for me.
> 
> Some people drink Whisky at barrel proof and can't taste anything but tannins and alcohol burn. Some people drink Jack Daniels and look at me like a crazy person when I tell them I hate it because it tastes like a sack of dirty Bananas....but it contains isoamyl acetate they just can't detect it over the alcohol (even though its only 40%) and tannins. Point being the stuff that contributes to flavour is still there in the espresso assuming a normal extraction, some people just can't detect it.


 This has been my experience with the niche too. I just don't get the claims that flavours are lost. I wondered if it's specific to filter, which is why I'm going to try and compare in that format.


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

newdent said:


> They just did a long, live video on Instagram. Said that the app could potentially adjust the motor rpm, don't know if that means the adjustability is already there or something they may add.
> 
> It had a system built into the carriers to align the burrs with screws to avoiding having to shim with foil. Same laborious process but at least no foil to dislodge every time you make an adjustment. Looks a more reasonable size to the Weber grinders one seen in person, it would look better in the home environment.
> 
> A lot of money for 64mm ssp burrs imo. Just get a use mazzer or df64 and spend some time aligning.


 If you prefer you grinder to work instantly without needing to mod it or use half baked solution such as bellows then this fit the bill as it's designed to work as a SD grinder is not just some modified hopper grinder.

not everyone is into tinkering and some gladly pay for that, personally I'm way over wanting to waste my time tinkering to save a few.


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

Denis S said:


> Not implying anything. The above thing is on the market since 2018. They can ask the factory to make their grinder, since the soo slow processing of getting things done.
> 
> If you have your own factory to build grinders, then you have a much faster progress, but if you build them with someone on a contract things can get slower, to get prototypes to write what to modify, to send the upgrades to evaluate things again.
> 
> ...


 How exactly are you going to design a grinder where 90% hasn't already been invented, I would really like to know.

The loading is very different to a grinder like the EK that uses a prebreaker/worm drive to feed the burrs as the entrance is behind the burrs and not directly over them, this uses gravity to feed the burr so is much closer related to the Mythos, but even here there is a difference as the Mythos really combine the two methods a solution they are also thinking about. Other grinder uses the centrifugal force to feed its burrs, all methods has been used but with slight differences.

you can stall all grinders I stalled an EK and even something more mighty then that, so I'm not entirely sure you that easily can say they are worse in that regard or don't know how to make grinders? are WW grinders perfect I don't really think so but then I don't really think any grinser is, all grinders have minor issues and compromises.


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