# Gaggia Classic or Ascaso ARC



## Rowlybum

hi all,

I could really do with some advice, as i have spent far too much time this week looking at various model/make of espresso machine it's become an obsession!!

It all started when i suggested to the wife that that we could save some money on buying high street slop by purchasing our very own machine, so there i set off and started looking at machines at around the £100 mark. Well it didn't take long and now i am up to £250, but thats my absolute limit especially as it will only be used to do 2-4 cups of espresso per day.

Part of the problem is that I have spent too much time all over the web that my judement has become clouded and i cannot decide what would suit our needs better. thankfully I have it down to two either the Classic or the ARC. I haven't seen too many reviews of the ARC, whereas the Classic seems very popular with just about everyone. As i see it, the main differences between the two are that the ARC has a brass boiler and the Classic an aluminuim boiler, with the later being made in italy and the former made in Spain.

Am I missing anything other than that can someone please tell me?

I must confess that i am very tempted with the Ascaso(will get a 2yr warranty), but I could really do with some help understanding which machine will give me the better shot, which would be easier to use, that type of thing?

sorry i should add that i like espresso, but it will also be used to make lots of latte's also.

thanks in advance

rowly


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## Baj1936

Hi Rowly

Sorry to disappoint you but there is no way that you are going to produce good espresso coffee for £250 buying new. Your approach is wrong: to produce a good shot of espresso it is necessary to first choose your beans, then to choose a grinder, then to know what you're doing, then to choose a machine.

Beans: Not from supermarkets or equipment suppliers - beans must be fresh. Buy from specialist roasters such as Hasbean, Drury, Square Mile, Monmouth, Extra Coffee and others. Pure Arabic blends for espresso; Robusta blends for milk drinks.

Grinder: Burr grinder with a doser - at least £200. The ground coffee must consist of grains of uniform size, not in clumps and not heated by the grinding process.

How to: Vast amount of information available on all aspects of coffee making, housekeeping, maintenance.

Machine: at least £250. I know very little about the Gaggia Classic but I have read that its milk frothing ability is not very good and that the wand should be changed.

I would strongly advise you not to buy any Ascaso equipment. Their grinders produce a clumpy grind of uneven consistency. Their coffee machines are badly designed and often overpriced.

Consider their Arc machine some are fitted with a small boiler with an external overpowered heater; when the thermostat switches off the heater at 100 C., the residual heat from the thermal mass of the heater continues to heat the water in the boiler to about 125C. A temperature of about 90 C. is required for an espresso. Need to wait or use steam valve or run cold water into boiler.

Some are fitted with a thermoblock - Ugh.

Last years models were not fitted with a three way anti drip valve so that if the portafilter was removed too soon after brewing a coffee, the remaining pressure shot spent grounds and coffee everywhere especially into the grouphead. The latest model is fitted with an anti drip valve but some retailers are still trying to off-load older versions.

The group head comes in two versions: ground coffee only - which is fitted with a full normal shower screen and is satisfactory in use; "Versatile" for ground coffee and coffee pods - which is fitted with a shower disc having 28 distinct holes; this is fine for coffee pods, but useless for ground coffee as the jets of water from the shower disc break up the coffee puck in the filter basket causing channelling and consequently poor extraction.

So if you want to produce decent coffee drinks at home you've got to spend at least £400 but, please don't spend it on Ascaso equipment you'll be very disappointed.


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## RisingPower

I can highly recommend the gaggia classic having one paired up with a mazzer mini, from reading reviews on coffeegeek they don't seem to be too brilliant about the ascaso arc.

Bear in mind you can pick up gaggia classics on ebay for around half that amount you're currently looking at. Money which could be far better spent on a decent grinder. Without a grinder you can forget getting anything other than dishwater out of any espresso machine.

If you're making lots of lattes I'd say that neither of these machines are really suitable, they just lack the steam power. What you should be after is a heat exchanger machine which keeps the boiler at steam temperature so you've always got steam on hand. The only upshot of this is that you need a reasonable cooling flush ~5oz before you can brew.

Heat exchange machines like some isomacs, izzo alex, izzo vivi, rocket giotto would cost significantly more, but they are pretty too


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## RisingPower

Baj1936 said:


> Hi Rowly
> 
> Sorry to disappoint you but there is no way that you are going to produce good espresso coffee for £250 buying new. Your approach is wrong: to produce a good shot of espresso it is necessary to first choose your beans, then to choose a grinder, then to know what you're doing, then to choose a machine.
> 
> Beans: Not from supermarkets or equipment suppliers - beans must be fresh. Buy from specialist roasters such as Hasbean, Drury, Square Mile, Monmouth, Extra Coffee and others. Pure Arabic blends for espresso; Robusta blends for milk drinks.
> 
> Grinder: Burr grinder with a doser - at least £200. The ground coffee must consist of grains of uniform size, not in clumps and not heated by the grinding process.
> 
> How to: Vast amount of information available on all aspects of coffee making, housekeeping, maintenance.
> 
> Machine: at least £250. I know very little about the Gaggia Classic but I have read that its milk frothing ability is not very good and that the wand should be changed.
> 
> So if you want to produce decent coffee drinks at home you've got to spend at least £400 but, please don't spend it on Ascaso equipment you'll be very disappointed.


I'm sorry but I disagree with having to spend £400. My gaggia classic cost me £130 and my mazzer mini I picked up for £100. I think they're very capable of making excellent espresso (albeit not in the range of some of the conical grinders paired up with some commercial/prosumer machines).

There is definitely however, a vote for fresh beans being critical. Without fresh beans, it just tastes foul and bitter.

I don't see why you'd need a doser either on a grinder? That's down to personal preference. Some may find it easier to grind directly into the basket rather than putting it on a timer, thwacking the doser, tamping and brewing.

Regards to milk foaming, apparently the rancilio silvia arm is much better at producing decent microfoam, but you'd be hard pushed to get an excellent cappucino/latte out of any lower entry consumer machine.

Alternatively, if you don't want to spend much money on a grinder (think this is a bad idea really) you could try a hand grinder, which would produce far better results than a blade grinder.


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## RisingPower

Rowlybum said:


> hi all,
> 
> I could really do with some advice, as i have spent far too much time this week looking at various model/make of espresso machine it's become an obsession!!
> 
> thanks in advance
> 
> rowly


Oh and as regards to it becoming an obsession, just you wait until you get a grinder and machine







That's when it starts to really become an obsession









If I can also point you in the direction of the home-barista faq which is a font of useful information: http://www.home-barista.com/faqs-and-favorites-digest.html?sid=b308deae1fedb64cbcf4b4ddcd784aae

Good luck


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## Baj1936

"I'm sorry but I disagree with having to spend £400. My gaggia classic cost me £130 and my mazzer mini I picked up for £100."

From which company did you buy these two pieces of new equipment? I made no reference to second hand goods.

Of course doser or doserless grinder is a matter of personal preference: I much prefer doser - hardly any mess and no need for yoghurt pots and darning needles.


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## RisingPower

Baj1936 said:


> "I'm sorry but I disagree with having to spend £400. My gaggia classic cost me £130 and my mazzer mini I picked up for £100."
> 
> From which company did you buy these two pieces of new equipment? I made no reference to second hand goods.
> 
> Of course doser or doserless grinder is a matter of personal preference: I much prefer doser - hardly any mess and no need for yoghurt pots and darning needles.


Well you did mention new for £250, but not new for £400. You can pick up very reasonable equipment second hand for £250.

Since the OP hasn't ruled out second hand machines, I thought it was a valuable point that you can get a very reasonable setup for the same amount of money.


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## Glenn

You could try a Porlex Grinder (hand grinder) or Hario Skerton.

Both grinders are better than some cheap electric grinders and all blade grinders.

I'm not a fan of doser grinders for home use as there is not usually sufficient volume to warrant this. and the extra cleaning required too.

Doserless grinders have the same internals, just a chute at the front instead of hopper, paddles, measured dosing etc, and for home users less coffee is wasted too.


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## Rowlybum

thanks for all your reply's

The boiler size insn't really an issue as it just the two of us that will be using it, neither is the ability to go from steam to from producing a shot.

My total coffe machine budget is £250 old or new, plus grinder and i have been recommended the Dualit Coffee Grinder (DUA-75002) for about £65, which is all I need to experiment in the short term or least til I decide to take things futher and start to invest in a better machine/grinder.

Apologies if I am insulting anyone by saying that i want to make excellent shots, as clearly that is not going to happen with a machine costing £250, because everyone would have one if that were the case, however for that price i would expect to make a comparible shot to say costa or starbucks as they really don't care what they knock out, so if i can get close to that i will be well chuffed.

If i had £399 I would buy a silva, but £250 is the absolute limit, as i need to buy a water filter, metal tamper, some nice cups etc....

Do you really think that the Ascaro is not capable of producing decent crema as some reviews from canada say that the machine is very decent for the money and having slept on it overnight I was about to slash the cash today until I logged on and saw to my horror the replys.

If anyone has any idea's of a different make and model worth considering for this sort of budget I would really appreciate hering from you.

thanks again everyone

Mark


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## RisingPower

As in the previous posts, I recommend a used gaggia classic and at least an iberital mc2 level grinder. If you can pick up something like a mazzer or macap for a similar price as the mc2, that would be ideal. Gaggia classics can be had cheaply on ebay and are pretty darn good machines for their level. I would highly recommend you look at them on ebay. They fetch from around £70-140 normally.

You will produce dishwater and only dishwater with something like a dualit. You're not insulting anyone, but there are better grinders/machines to be had for the price. For example, I picked my mazzer mini up for the price of an iberital mc2 new.

Grinder comes first, then machine.

Just take a look at the reviews of the ascaro on here:

http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/ascasoarc

Compare those with the gaggia classic:

http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/gaggia_classic

I can also recommend happydonkey for all the accessories you need, I'm loving their tamper. If you can step to a bit more, a reg barber tamper is nice.


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## Glenn

The grinder you mention is okay for french press and aeropress but I have not yet managed to get it fine enough for Espresso and have used them on a number of occasions.

The Ascaso Arc will produce a shot with crema, if the grind is right, as it is capable of producing enough pressure and hot water.

Where are you based? We may be able to recommend venues where you can get hands-on with both machines, then you'll be able to go with whichever machine you feel most comfortable with.


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## Rowlybum

Glenn said:


> The grinder you mention is okay for french press and aeropress but I have not yet managed to get it fine enough for Espresso and have used them on a number of occasions.
> 
> The Ascaso Arc will produce a shot with crema, if the grind is right, as it is capable of producing enough pressure and hot water.
> 
> Where are you based? We may be able to recommend venues where you can get hands-on with both machines, then you'll be able to go with whichever machine you feel most comfortable with.


Hi Glenn,

I am based in Hemel Hempstead(north london) and i am not aware of anywhere I can see either in the flesh.

In terms of machine, clearly their are loads that out perform the classic and the arc, but for what i need it for and as a beginner machine to find my feet I thought both would probably do a stella job - what do you think?

fyi: i did start looking at the gaggia evolution as again i just wanted something to get me started off in the right direction.

The wife isn't keen on the classic as it has an aluminium boiler and she is concerned of the link between alzheimer and aluminuim, this isn't an issue for me.

can you recommend any other burr(or steel blades) grinders that would do a fine grind for about £70? not really into hand grinders and i really don't want to get coffee shops to grind it for me as it defeats the object of what i am trying to acheive.

Above all everything, the kick in all of this is the magic of creating, or rather TRYING to create good espresso, something i have never had the pleasure of doing YET. I kind of gets OCD when I start something, and should i get fairly good results from my set-up I expect I will take my new found hobby a take it that step further and perhaps I will spend silly money. everyone has to start somehwere, but the more research you do the more daunting it becomes !!

cheers


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## Glenn

You're in luck as there is an Ascaso supplier literally just up the road from you (Xpress Coffee)

Coffee is a subject that leads you in many directions and the more you learn the more you want to learn and the more you realise you don't know.

As we're practically neighbours (I'm in Stanmore), if you wanted to get hands on with a Gaggia Classic and a grinder I'd be happy to bring one around to your place as a comparison.

I'm not aware of an electric burr grinder at that price point that is really suitable.


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## RisingPower

Rowlybum said:


> Hi Glenn,
> 
> I am based in Hemel Hempstead(north london) and i am not aware of anywhere I can see either in the flesh.
> 
> In terms of machine, clearly their are loads that out perform the classic and the arc, but for what i need it for and as a beginner machine to find my feet I thought both would probably do a stella job - what do you think?
> 
> fyi: i did start looking at the gaggia evolution as again i just wanted something to get me started off in the right direction.
> 
> The wife isn't keen on the classic as it has an aluminium boiler and she is concerned of the link between alzheimer and aluminuim, this isn't an issue for me.
> 
> can you recommend any other burr(or steel blades) grinders that would do a fine grind for about £70? not really into hand grinders and i really don't want to get coffee shops to grind it for me as it defeats the object of what i am trying to acheive.
> 
> Above all everything, the kick in all of this is the magic of creating, or rather TRYING to create good espresso, something i have never had the pleasure of doing YET. I kind of gets OCD when I start something, and should i get fairly good results from my set-up I expect I will take my new found hobby a take it that step further and perhaps I will spend silly money. everyone has to start somehwere, but the more research you do the more daunting it becomes !!
> 
> cheers


I would say the ascaso arc is not in the same league as the classic.

Getting a decent electric burr grinder for ~£70 won't happen, unless it's a hand grinder or you get very lucky on ebay.


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## Baj1936

Of course *"the ascaso arc is not in the same league as the classic".*

*
*

Why are you still considering the Arc?

Some comments from the Coffeegeek forum:-

Buy something else - you will have to anyway.

Run Away! You get what you pay for on this machine. Nada.

Makes good coffee easily ..... when it works. Don't waste your money on it - unless you really like your service department!

I give up.

P.S. If you do decide to make a purchase that you'll regret, don't buy from Xpress (they are more expensive than other companies); make sure that it is the latest model fitted with a three way anti-drip valve; that it is fitted with a full width ground coffee shower screen (making it thus completely useless for coffee pods) rather than the the shower disc (which is fine for pods but unsatisfactory for ground coffee).

P.P.S. Last year the 58 mm. filter baskets were actually 57 mm. ; check before you buy a tamper.


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## Rowlybum

Baj1936 said:


> Of course *"the ascaso arc is not in the same league as the classic".*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> Why are you still considering the Arc?
> 
> Some comments from the Coffeegeek forum:-
> 
> Buy something else - you will have to anyway.
> 
> Run Away! You get what you pay for on this machine. Nada.
> 
> Makes good coffee easily ..... when it works. Don't waste your money on it - unless you really like your service department!
> 
> I give up.
> 
> P.S. If you do decide to make a purchase that you'll regret, don't buy from Xpress (they are more expensive than other companies); make sure that it is the latest model fitted with a three way anti-drip valve; that it is fitted with a full width ground coffee shower screen (making it thus completely useless for coffee pods) rather than the the shower disc (which is fine for pods but unsatisfactory for ground coffee).
> 
> P.P.S. Last year the 58 mm. filter baskets were actually 57 mm. ; check before you buy a tamper.


I know exactly what you are saying, but i have seen some good reviews and i take your comments on board with regard to the bad reviews also. The ARC attracts me because it looks very neat. On top of that the wife likes it more, as I mentioned the aluminium boiler on the classic(big mistake) and she can choose the colour. If I were going to buy from anyone I would buy it from coffee first, as the chap kindly called me back to discuss what my requirements were when i called to enquire about the availability of the evolution. thats where he gave me the idea for the ascaso grouped with the dualit grinder as he said that the evolution was hard to get hold of.

http://www.coffee-first.co.uk/products/340/ARC-Brushed-Steel-Espresso-Coffee-Machine.htm

i saw that the baskets were 57m and will make sure that the model i get has the 3 way anti drip valve, but i wasn't aware that i can purchase with just the full width shower screen?

Thanks to glen i am trying to get a viewing at xpress, but they don't appear to be open today.


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## RisingPower

Rowlybum said:


> I know exactly what you are saying, but i have seen some good reviews and i take your comments on board with regard to the bad reviews also. The ARC attracts me because it looks very neat. On top of that the wife likes it more, as I mentioned the aluminium boiler on the classic(big mistake) and she can choose the colour. If I were going to buy from anyone I would buy it from coffee first, as the chap kindly called me back to discuss what my requirements were when i called to enquire about the availability of the evolution. thats where he gave me the idea for the ascaso grouped with the dualit grinder as he said that the evolution was hard to get hold of.
> 
> http://www.coffee-first.co.uk/products/340/ARC-Brushed-Steel-Espresso-Coffee-Machine.htm
> 
> i saw that the baskets were 57m and will make sure that the model i get has the 3 way anti drip valve, but i wasn't aware that i can purchase with just the full width shower screen?
> 
> Thanks to glen i am trying to get a viewing at xpress, but they don't appear to be open today.


Seriously, I have never ever seen any quote of alzheimers as a result of using a espresso machine with an aluminium boiler. What about brass boilers? They're treated with arsenic which is leached out over a period of time. Yet they're still used in the best of machines.

Take a look at a gaggia classic in person and tell me it doesn't look neat. I like the brushed steel front and the layout. For £70-150 for a classic on ebay you're throwing away money if you get an ascaro to get nothing more than a shiny toy which produces dishwater and will break, often.

I would say it is a big mistake to consider the dualit and the ascaso, but since you seem to be swayed against any advice from people who own and have no bias against certain machines/grinders, well...

If you want a very pretty machine which can actually produce better coffee than both the classic and the ascaro, start looking at machines like the isomac zaffiro, quickmill alexia, vibiemme domobar etc etc. These would start at least at ~£600-700.

The very fact that coffee first would even sell a kit like this means you can't trust their judgment with a bargepole:

http://www.coffee-first.co.uk/products/135/Barista-Kit.htm

If you want proper advice from people who actually care about coffee and sell proper equipment try:

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/coffeegrinders/coffeegrinders.asp

http://www.coffeehit.co.uk/

http://www.happydonkey.co.uk

For an example of a gaggia classic:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Gaggia-Classic-Espresso-Coffee-Machine-in-Brushed-Steel_W0QQitemZ120513747315QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoffee_Machines_Makers?hash=item1c0f2dd973

For an example of the iberital mc2 grinder:

http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd0866-iberital-mc2-auto.html


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## Rowlybum

RisingPower said:


> Seriously, I have never ever seen any quote of alzheimers as a result of using a espresso machine with an aluminium boiler. What about brass boilers? They're treated with arsenic which is leached out over a period of time. Yet they're still used in the best of machines.
> 
> Take a look at a gaggia classic in person and tell me it doesn't look neat. I like the brushed steel front and the layout. For £70-150 for a classic on ebay you're throwing away money if you get an ascaro to get nothing more than a shiny toy which produces dishwater and will break, often.
> 
> I would say it is a big mistake to consider the dualit and the ascaso, but since you seem to be swayed against any advice from people who own and have no bias against certain machines/grinders, well...
> 
> If you want a very pretty machine which can actually produce better coffee than both the classic and the ascaro, start looking at machines like the isomac zaffiro, quickmill alexia, vibiemme domobar etc etc. These would start at least at ~£600-700.
> 
> The very fact that coffee first would even sell a kit like this means you can't trust their judgment with a bargepole:
> 
> http://www.coffee-first.co.uk/products/135/Barista-Kit.htm
> 
> If you want proper advice from people who actually care about coffee and sell proper equipment try:
> 
> http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/coffeegrinders/coffeegrinders.asp
> 
> http://www.coffeehit.co.uk/
> 
> http://www.happydonkey.co.uk
> 
> For an example of a gaggia classic:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Gaggia-Classic-Espresso-Coffee-Machine-in-Brushed-Steel_W0QQitemZ120513747315QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoffee_Machines_Makers?hash=item1c0f2dd973
> 
> For an example of the iberital mc2 grinder:
> 
> http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd0866-iberital-mc2-auto.html


i am coming around to your way of thinking having spent all morning trawling websites and video explaining the importance of a decent grinder. Thanks for the link, thats the best price i have seen anywhere. So thats the grinder sorted it's all down to the machine.....

The one you sent me the link on what do you think I should pay for something two years old? i don't think i could stretch to a new one for ~£240, so used is the next best thing. do you think provided it has been looked after well it will last me a few years?


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## RisingPower

Rowlybum said:


> i am coming around to your way of thinking having spent all morning trawling websites and video explaining the importance of a decent grinder. Thanks for the link, thats the best price i have seen anywhere. So thats the grinder sorted it's all down to the machine.....
> 
> The one you sent me the link on what do you think I should pay for something two years old? i don't think i could stretch to a new one for ~£240, so used is the next best thing. do you think provided it has been looked after well it will last me a few years?


I wouldn't have bought one which was I think 2 years old if I didn't think it would last me. With proper maintenance you'll probably get a proper e61 prosumer/commerical machine before you have issues with the classic.

They are good, solid machines.

They go for around £70-150 normally, what you decide to pay is up to you, but £200 would be over the odds.

Also, factor in that since you can get the grinder from happy donkey, you can get a proper tamper cheaply rather than the plastic rubbish it's supplied with, espresso shot glasses, a bottomless portafilter (imo a great learning tool), a grouphead cleaning brush, puly caff to clean along with a blind basket, and something to descale also.

I would also take glenn up on his very generous offer, getting an introduction from someone more experienced is invaluable when starting off.


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## Rowlybum

how about this recon gaggia evolution on the attached link. i can get it delivered with a 1yr warranty for £139. i hear the only difference bewteen this and classic is the 3 way valve?

http://www.caffeshop.co.uk/


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## RisingPower

Rowlybum said:


> how about this recon gaggia evolution on the attached link. i can get it delivered with a 1yr warranty for £139. i hear the only difference bewteen this and classic is the 3 way valve?
> 
> http://www.caffeshop.co.uk/


That only difference is a significant one. It means easier, proper, cleaning and it also makes it easier to use.

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/what-is-three-way-solenoid-valve-t6891.html


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## BanishInstant

This topic has really bean getting people going









Rowlybum, I was in your position a couple of months before Christmas. I have since learnt it is a hobby and a passion and when you make the killer espresso, or latte in my case, then you are on top of the world.

It has already been mentioned on this topic that the sequence of priorities is:

- Beans

- Grinder

- Machine

It just so happens that the price increases the lower the priority









You have already chosen the recommended grinder - great, I have that one. It does not have the same obvious grind settings, but you can actually make finer adjustments. Look out for Glenn's instructions on this forum since there are none in the box!

You have already seen the Caffeshop website. I visited one of their shops (ex Gaggia UK) and tried some of the machines they had. I came away with a Gaggia Coffee (2nd hand) for £99 which is a lower spec than the Classic but I put up with the dripping etc. It can steam enough milk for two lattes and I have put it through a few rounds one afternoon and it was great. At the budget you have buy a quality machine for reliability and repairability. From the machines mentioned so far, the quality of the espresso produced can be slightly better on the money spent but not significant. For a much better espresso you have to be spending into the 1,000s and if you are like me, then leave that for a few years.

There was a reply to your topic about beans and there you need to pay particular attention. Freshly roasted beans combined with your grinder and a basic machine will give you the best chance of making an espresso/latte to be proud of. If the beans are old, or the grinder cannot produce grounds good enough for your machine, then it doesn't matter if you have spent 1,000s.

Stale beans = stale coffee.

You have started on a journey and unless you have limitless pockets you start on the first few rungs and over the years progress. Just wait until you start reading about barista technique etc.

Finally, welcome and I hope you have fun along the way.


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## Baj1936

Hi Rowlybum

On a lighter note:-

You expressed an interest in coffee crema, which is an added bonus to making decent coffee; the golden -brown colour (which is ruined by these newfangled, useless and annoying energy saving light bulbs) is a joy to behold; but it's the taste that matters.

To demonstrate to you the importance of bean, grind, man and lastly machine, here is a picture of coffee crema I produced this afternoon using fresh coffee (freshly ground) and a gimmick Moka Pot.


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## Rowlybum

BanishInstant said:


> This topic has really bean getting people going
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rowlybum, I was in your position a couple of months before Christmas. I have since learnt it is a hobby and a passion and when you make the killer espresso, or latte in my case, then you are on top of the world.
> 
> It has already been mentioned on this topic that the sequence of priorities is:
> 
> - Beans
> 
> - Grinder
> 
> - Machine
> 
> It just so happens that the price increases the lower the priority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have already chosen the recommended grinder - great, I have that one. It does not have the same obvious grind settings, but you can actually make finer adjustments. Look out for Glenn's instructions on this forum since there are none in the box!
> 
> You have already seen the Caffeshop website. I visited one of their shops (ex Gaggia UK) and tried some of the machines they had. I came away with a Gaggia Coffee (2nd hand) for £99 which is a lower spec than the Classic but I put up with the dripping etc. It can steam enough milk for two lattes and I have put it through a few rounds one afternoon and it was great. At the budget you have buy a quality machine for reliability and repairability. From the machines mentioned so far, the quality of the espresso produced can be slightly better on the money spent but not significant. For a much better espresso you have to be spending into the 1,000s and if you are like me, then leave that for a few years.
> 
> There was a reply to your topic about beans and there you need to pay particular attention. Freshly roasted beans combined with your grinder and a basic machine will give you the best chance of making an espresso/latte to be proud of. If the beans are old, or the grinder cannot produce grounds good enough for your machine, then it doesn't matter if you have spent 1,000s.
> 
> Stale beans = stale coffee.
> 
> You have started on a journey and unless you have limitless pockets you start on the first few rungs and over the years progress. Just wait until you start reading about barista technique etc.
> 
> Finally, welcome and I hope you have fun along the way.


BIG thank you to all that have responded so far to my thread. before yesterday i was headed completely in the wrong direction and i am very grateful that so many have helped guide me to where i am now.

Actually beans was the next thing once i have the machine in place. i was about to buy the grinder today, but i am about to bid on a few machines on ebay today and tomorrow.

The missus is set on the francis francis X1(4yr old well looked after), but i want the evolution or the classic. the x1 auction finishes in 2 hrs and i hope i don't win as its in a horrible pink colour. unfortunately she is the better half and i do as i am told. fyi all the machines i am looking at are 2nd hand but i am ok with this procided it has been well looked after, plus it will allow me to dip my toe into the world of good coffee and i can't wait !!

i have seen glen guide to grinder set-up and it will probably becomes much clearer once i get the thing in my hands, otherwise he is only in standmore, so perhaps i could get beg him for his expertise?

let you know how i get on with my ebay bidding....

i am sure whatever i end up with x1, classic evolution coffee etc...(binned the ascaso after much persuasion) it will complement the grinder well.


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## RisingPower

Oh dear, I see what you mean about the colour







What were you saying about the classic again?









Don't get the evolution, the price is close to that of a new one, before it was discontinued, unlike the classic.


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## RisingPower

I think machines like this are far more attractive and I certainly know which would produce a better espresso:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ISOMAC-RITUALE-ESPRESSO-COFFEE-MACHINE_W0QQitemZ130357124086QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoffee_Machines_Makers?hash=item1e59e3dbf6


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## Rowlybum

RisingPower said:


> Oh dear, I see what you mean about the colour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What were you saying about the classic again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get the evolution, the price is close to that of a new one, before it was discontinued, unlike the classic.


i see what you mean , but i could probably pick one up for £70'ish, which isn't a bad thing. hopefully bidding on a classic in the next 48hrs provided i don't win the francis*says prayer not to win*

my wife told me to ask you about the cubika, as again its a really cute design(i am not convinced) , but she is beginning to exercise the muscle !!!


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## RisingPower

Rowlybum said:


> i see what you mean , but i could probably pick one up for £70'ish, which isn't a bad thing. hopefully bidding on a classic in the next 48hrs provided i don't win the francis*says prayer not to win*
> 
> my wife told me to ask you about the cubika, as again its a really cute design(i am not convinced) , but she is beginning to exercise the muscle !!!


The cubika, unfortunately like the francis francis has weak internals and doesn't have particularly good build quality. It's a case of style over substance.

Not quite in the same league as the ascaro though.


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## RisingPower

If you really want pretty and fantastic internals:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Elektra-Belle-Epoque-P1C_W0QQitemZ250560378530QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Restaurant_RL?hash=item3a568ff6a2

Now, where did I leave that £2k?


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## RisingPower

Rowlybum said:


> i see what you mean , but i could probably pick one up for £70'ish, which isn't a bad thing. hopefully bidding on a classic in the next 48hrs provided i don't win the francis*says prayer not to win*
> 
> my wife told me to ask you about the cubika, as again its a really cute design(i am not convinced) , but she is beginning to exercise the muscle !!!


You did say you had a budget of £250. I make that as £150 left for the machine and accessories. My advice is not to get a machine which will blow up within the first year (which apparently the x1 does after 5 years).


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## Glenn

I really hope you don't win the Francis Francis X1.

Although they look nice they are temperamental to work with and produce a poor shot compared to the other machines that you are bidding on.

I would buy the Cubika over the Evolution (personal preference)


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## Rowlybum

RisingPower said:


> You did say you had a budget of £250. I make that as £150 left for the machine and accessories. My advice is not to get a machine which will blow up within the first year (which apparently the x1 does after 5 years).


thanks for heads up. we won't be bidding on the X1, the pink was too much for me.

the iberital mc2 is £120 when you add on the vat, which is still a good price, so £120'ish left for the machine plus the add-on's give or take a few quid. i will always stretch if needs be, but i did originally set myslf £100,so i really should stop at some point, otherwise i will be remortaging the house, just to feed my addiction


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## RisingPower

Rowlybum said:


> thanks for heads up. we won't be bidding on the X1, the pink was too much for me.
> 
> the iberital mc2 is £120 when you add on the vat, which is still a good price, so £120'ish left for the machine plus the add-on's give or take a few quid. i will always stretch if needs be, but i did originally set myslf £100,so i really should stop at some point, otherwise i will be remortaging the house, just to feed my addiction


Well, I've just recently bought myself what looks to be a compak k10 and will probably consider an e61 dual boiler/single boiler/hx machine sooner or later. Addiction, what addiction?


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## Rowlybum

hi All,

Latest installment.....

Bought a 2nd hand Gaggia Classic on ebay for £85, which I thought was very reasonale. The chap selling has been very communicative throughout and seems as though he has looked after it.

see link to machine

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300386049120&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

He did say that it would needed descaling as it has been sitting for a while. It also have a crack in the water tank(not sure how bad this is), but apparently the housing doesn't leak and I looking to get this replaced for a new one if I can(not sure where to find one in the uk though)? Is there anything else i can perform myself i.e. basic service, perhaps changing the shower screen etc, or should I leave well alone if it works and just flush it through before using?

also what type of descaller to buy(i really am a newbie)?

about to buy the grinder tonight and i wanted to know what coffee beans to try out first(for latte)?

Anyway have i got a good deal do you think, as it only went on ebay last night and I snapped it up without giving it much thought!!


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## Rowlybum

juat bought all the bits below from happy donkey, so now it just a case of waiting for the machine to arrive..

MILKJUG06HD0817 COFFEE MACHINE MILK FOAMING JUG

866HD0866 Iberital MC2 Auto

117HD0117 COFFEE GROUNDS BRUSH

57HD0057 BLIND FILTER BASKET

Puly Caff SachetsHD0031 Puly Caff Sachets back flush

classic group sealHD6005 Gaggia Classic Group Seal

371HD0371 2oz Lined Espresso Shot Glass

21HD0021 GROUP HEAD CLEANING BRUSH for backflush clean

Puly BabyHD0588 PULY BABY decaler

apart from the tamper (haven't seen one i like yet) i think am about there


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## Glenn

You just beat me to it. I was about to recommend Gaggia Descaler or Puly Baby

Works a treat on my Gaggia Classic

As for beans. Try a blend and a single origin. Go for freshly roasted. Check out previous threads for roaster recommendations and see whats new in on their sites.


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## Rowlybum

Glenn said:


> You just beat me to it. I was about to recommend Gaggia Descaler or Puly Baby
> 
> Works a treat on my Gaggia Classic
> 
> As for beans. Try a blend and a single origin. Go for freshly roasted. Check out previous threads for roaster recommendations and see whats new in on their sites.


do you think i bought all the right bits to give it a once over, plus a few little treats to get me started?

also sent you a pm


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## Glenn

I would say you have more than the average home user to start with.

If the water reservoir is damaged thats not a major issue as any jug will substitute and replacement parts can be sourced fairly easily.


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## Rowlybum

finally found the right thread, so well done to me for that...

Well I finally have all the bits and pieces. Ran the machine first of all last week, but it was scaled shut and the water wasn't flowing right through the shower head. Thankfully Glen offered some advice and I managed to get the head off and clean/decaled and that did the trick. I have to say first of all what a pleasure the Classic is to work with. I wouldn't dream of playing around with a basic machine as they are all sealed units, but the classic is an excellent machine to take apart and rebuild, even if you have little or no practical skills.

I had a play around with the grinder and pulled a few shots, nothing considered good(too coarse). Glen then came over a few days later and talked me through the setup of the grinder, how to pull a shot etc..... really everything you need to know about being a barista chapter and verse. I didn't realise there was so much to learn, not just about the classic as it does have it's own traits, but also the process by which you make the espresso.

Thanks to everyone on this forum who helped guide me through to where I am today. Special note to Glen who is just about the most helpful person I have ever had the pleasure to meet. Thanks Glen for taking the time to come over on your way home and teach me and my wife the science that is espresso making. I will stay in touch for sure.

Now even though you gave us the full monty, Regrettably the better half is still having trouble making the froth for the latte, whereas I have it down to a fine art (do you think she is playing me)?

Anyway here's to a lifetime of quality coffee. Thanks everyone for all your help.

cheers

Mark


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## Rowlybum

I also have to confess that I performed a cardinal sin yesterday and bought some costa beans from their shop to see if they tasted any different to the happy donkey stuff they gave me free with the grinder or the single origin beans from Has bean and I am ashamed to say that my taste buds must have been damaged beyond repair as I LOVE the richer fuller taste of costa coffee.










Is there any hope for me?


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## sandykt

You're not the only one who likes Costa coffee beans. I buy them because the girl I know who works in the shop told me that they are the ones Costa use themselves, so they must be good. I have ordered some single origin beans from Londinium, on Glenn's recommendation, and I will try them as I don't want to be too boring.


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## BanishInstant

It's good to keep trying different varieties since you may find a little gem for your tastebuds.


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