# New Sage little machine



## 4085

Just a few teasers...........

  

  

  

  

  

Pulled one shot. Will reveal more later


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## froggystyle

Wondering how long it takes temp to drop to a stable level after steaming?


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## 4085

It is really clever froggy. You steam first and when you return the switch to neutral, the machine automatically vents itself to reduce to ensure the water temp is right


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## froggystyle

I like the price, about time Sage released a lower priced, simple machine.

What is the steam power like?


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## 4085

I do not want to give too much away until I have had a proper play, but, the one lot of milk I steamed, the steam is powered by a thermoblock which by nature means it chugs away, almost indefinitely but is not powerful. Single hole steam tip and even a fool could deliver beautifully textured milk.......and I did!........but, it is not powerful.


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## ronsil

At sub £350 there has to be a market for this one.


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## froggystyle

Cant find anything about pressure on the site though, guessing 15 bar?


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## Beanosaurus

WTF is that ANOTHER proprietary portafilter?!?!

A three lugged teflon coated one by the looks of things... Oh and a Gaggia Classic-esque double spout.


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## 4085

bit of info on here for you

http://www.breville.com.au/the-duo-temptm-pro.html


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## Spazbarista

How long do they last?


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## 4085

Spazbarista said:


> How long do they last?


Well, at least two years as that is the standard warranty with them!........but I take your point


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## charris

David,

have you started working for Sage?


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## 4085

charris said:


> David,
> 
> have you started working for Sage?


Not until they pay me! I think my lever machine is due back very shortly, so that will deplete the family!


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## 7493

Deplete? Surely increase unless you're getting rid of a Sage or two?


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## Spazbarista

Don't worry, the Sages will get rid of themselves.....


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## 7877

I am sensing a lot a negativity for no apparent reason...seems like a decent machine at the right price point if you ask me. The duo-temp feature if it works will I suspect appeal to many SB owners who don't want to or can't afford to pick up more expensive HX or db machines I would have thought. Will be interested to hear the opinion once you've used it a bit


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## 4085

Sibling Chris said:


> I am sensing a lot a negativity for no apparent reason...seems like a decent machine at the right price point if you ask me. The duo-temp feature if it works will I suspect appeal to many SB owners who don't want to or can't afford to pick up more expensive HX or db machines I would have thought. Will be interested to hear the opinion once you've used it a bit


It is early days but the machine seems quite capable so far. It is not a Gaggia Classic.....you cannot change the steam arm or mod it........it has a built in pid which is set at the factory.......it applies perfusion that you cannot vary........if you steam your milk it automatically adjusts the water temp down to the correct level before you pull the shot.......the steam is not powerful, but it is powerful enough..........but, the whole point of this machine seems to be that it is very easy to use. You try telling a newbie to listen as you vent the steam on a Classic for the change in note. This is not going to appeal to would be Classic/Silvia owners, but it will appeal to newbies to the coffee scene


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## michaelg

I think it sounds a pretty well thought out wee machine like most Sage stuff. I wouldn't mind giving one a go myself really. If that had been about 9 years ago when I first bought my Gaggia Classic I might have gone for that instead.


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## MrShades

The Breville Aus website is a little naughty, as on the pages for every one of the Dual Boiler, the Infuser, and the Duo-temp machines it says:

"Low Pressure Pre-infusion

Low pressure pre-infusion gently delivers water pressure at between 2 to 4 bar to allow the coffee grinds to expand prior to extraction at the optimal full pressure of 9 bar. This enhances the release of the oils to produce a balanced espresso. This pressure and its duration is user programmable."

Now this is tosh, as only the DB allows the pressure and duration to be varied.


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## Sean

I have high hopes for this. Not a DB, not a Classic. But should definitely have a place in the market. I would have seriously considered it instead of the Classic if it was around a couple of years ago.


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## 4085

MrShades said:


> The Breville Aus website is a little naughty, as on the pages for every one of the Dual Boiler, the Infuser, and the Duo-temp machines it says:
> 
> "Low Pressure Pre-infusion
> 
> Low pressure pre-infusion gently delivers water pressure at between 2 to 4 bar to allow the coffee grinds to expand prior to extraction at the optimal full pressure of 9 bar. This enhances the release of the oils to produce a balanced espresso. This pressure and its duration is user programmable."
> 
> Now this is tosh, as only the DB allows the pressure and duration to be varied.


Perhaps the UK version is different

http://www.johnlewis.com/sage-by-heston-blumenthal-the-duo-temp-pro-espresso-coffee-machine-brushed-stainless-steel/p1749201


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## jeebsy

Was it Quickmill who did the wee single boiler with the thermoblock?


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## Beanosaurus

Dave, is the portafilter 54mm like the Breville website says it is or 58mm??

That could put a lot of people off if so...


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## Mrboots2u

Beanosaurus said:


> Dave, is the portafilter 54mm like the Breville website says it is or 58mm??
> 
> That could put a lot of people off if so...


If its a first machine for people ( which is its market) most won't know or be concerned about the size of the pf..why would they?


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## 4085

it is 54mm, just like la spaz! i have not found it to be a problem though


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## Mrboots2u

New users won't give a fudge , they will want a simple value machine to use. It comes with a tamper Mr Kidd?/


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## 7877

Interestingly looks like this is only just going up on sageappliances.co.uk as there is no image yet. But it says "1 year replacement guaranty" whereas the DB and some other kit is "2 years repair or replacement"

You would think the same basic parts are used but at that price point they must think they're not worth the repair costs if anything goes wrong


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## MrShades

dfk41 said:


> Perhaps the UK version is different
> 
> http://www.johnlewis.com/sage-by-heston-blumenthal-the-duo-temp-pro-espresso-coffee-machine-brushed-stainless-steel/p1749201


I think they've just got text on the website that shouldn't be there as none of the user manuals mention it at all, hence DB does it but the others don't - same as the UK


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## 4085

It comes with a tamper, along he same style as the dual boiler, which has a magnet in the handle and sits inside the machine. The warranty card with the machine is 2 year. I rang Sage today and told them that the machine is not on their website, so no doubt over the next couple of days it will magically appear!


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## froggystyle

dfk41 said:


> it applies pre-infusion that you cannot vary.


You sure about that bit?

From the oz site..

Low pressure pre-infusion gently delivers water pressure at between 2 to 4 bar to allow the coffee grinds to expand prior to extraction at the optimal full pressure of 9 bar. This enhances the release of the oils to produce a balanced espresso. *This pressure and its duration is user programmable.*

*
*


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## 4085

froggy, there is no control panel or menu. This model is the BES810UK which must be different to that version. I have emailed Sage for confirmation, read the handbook and as far as I can see, there is no method of altering anything, and quite rightly so. This is a vehicle, that until now, starts first time. It will not benefit from wider wheels and sporty seat covers! Pre infusion is simply low pressure infusion to wet or break the puck. 2 to 4 bar sounds fine to me, why change it?


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## froggystyle

Just curious as it states it on the site, i also read the manual that was on same site, but nothing!


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## 4085

They are busy addidng it to the UK site as we speak, but it is not complete yet


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## 4085

Couple of interesting facts. I just turned it on, and from zero to the water being ready, 38.14 seconds! After that, you pull a 30 second shot of water through and vent steam for 10 seconds and away you go.

I made two shots of Jampit. One through each Sage machine. The small machine won hands down on taste for me, even though it over extracted because I did not want to change the grind setting to loosen it off a little!


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## froggystyle

Is pre-infusion compulsory?


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## 4085

froggystyle said:


> Is pre-infusion compulsory?


yes.................


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## Beanosaurus

Mrboots2u said:


> If its a first machine for people ( which is its market) most won't know or be concerned about the size of the pf..why would they?


I'm just being a pedantic [email protected] here...

What I'm inferring is that it would be nice if I could use my VST baskets with it, however if the supplied baskets are as good quality as the ones that came with the Dual Boiler then so what...

It's just the case that most non-newbies have 58mm kit knocking about and not so many have La Spaz stuff.

All that aside its got a rather quick warm-up time by the sounds of it!


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## froggystyle

So for £130 more than a new classic, you get the following...

Pre-Infusion.

Temp Stability.

Ability to steam straight after shot is pulled.

Ability to pull shot straight after milk is steamed.

Hot Water.

Better looks??

1 or 2 year warranty?

Is it a classic beater though is the question???


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## 4085

froggystyle said:


> So for £130 more than a new classic, you get the following...
> 
> Pre-Infusion.
> 
> Temp Stability.
> 
> Ability to steam straight after shot is pulled.
> 
> Ability to pull shot straight after milk is steamed.
> 
> Hot Water.
> 
> Better looks??
> 
> 1 or 2 year warranty?
> 
> Is it a classic beater though is the question???


You would always steam the milk first on this, as having a thermoblock to heat the water up for steam, it takes about 5 seconds or so. When you first turn the dial, a little trickle of water comes out. The steam is not powerful but very effective, then the machine will automatically bring the water temp down for you. It does do hot water as well and the warranty is for 2 years from Sage. I am going to lend it to a Silvia owner I know who has just blown his up...and will let you know what he thinks. If you open your eyes up to the market it is aimed at then it is not an authentic classic Italian machine and will not appeal to perhaps the average user on this forum........but I bet it makes coffee just as tasty as any Cl;aspic or Silvia owner can produce without the faff


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## 4085

Beanosaurus said:


> I'm just being a pedantic [email protected] here...
> 
> What I'm inferring is that it would be nice if I could use my VST baskets with it, however if the supplied baskets are as good quality as the ones that came with the Dual Boiler then so what...
> 
> It's just the case that most non-newbies have 58mm kit knocking about and not so many have La Spaz stuff.
> 
> All that aside its got a rather quick warm-up time by the sounds of it!


I take your point but in fairness, the baskets ( 4 of them) seem good quality to me. A newbie, who has had no other machine before it will not matter. If a Classic owner was looking to upgrade to the next machine, then really his choice is limited to this or a Silvia. I suspect a lifestyle decision will be made as to which one. The Sage has many admirable qualities, but so does the Silvia. I reckon most owners will be heavily influenced by the better half


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## froggystyle

Very tempted by this machine in the new year... I do not think i will ever spend £500+ on a machine due to me only drinking maybe 1 shot per day.


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## 4085

I have adjusted the grind a bit coarser, weighed 15 gems in with a light tamp. With the perfusion running to bout 9 seconds and the drink starting to pour at 12 seconds and finishing at 30, it extracted roughly 28 gms of Jampit. The pour was quite thick and was actually very tasty. it is the first time I have pulled a shot with a bit of care........quite impressed by it tbh


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## Beanosaurus

dfk41 said:


> I have adjusted the grind a bit coarser, weighed 15 gems in with a light tamp.


Bloody hell! What burrs have you got on your grinder?!


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## johnealey

Does it have this burr set in it ?










"A *diamond grinding cup wheel* is a metal-bonded diamond tool with diamond segments welded or cold-pressed on a steel (or other metal, such as aluminum) wheel body, which usually looks like a cup. Diamond grinding cup wheels ar e usually mounted on concrete grinders to grind abrasive building materials like concrete, granite and marble."


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## Sean

I like it. On paper, it smashes the Classic. I think it will do well.


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## Wuyang

Sounds a cracking little machine.......seem to get a lot for your money and if lakeland start to sell it that would be a big bonus with the life time warranty they attach to things they sell.


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## Dylan

nevermind...

24chars


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## bronc

dfk41, are you happy with the machine? It would be great if you could write a short review.


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## 4085

The machine was sent to me to review. It is always difficult getting out of a Mercedes and into a Micra to do your shopping and be objective. The machine is fine.It cannot be compared to a Silvia which is the nearest price point because they are very different machines. The Sage was fine with some nice features but it was so easy to use it did not really give you a coffee experience. If you are after something that can be witched on 45 seconds before you need the drink and is not for making 6 cups at a time, then it is fine, but with all that electronic stiff going on, I am not sure if I would buy one or not.


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## cjroebuck

dfk41 said:


> The machine was sent to me to review. It is always difficult getting out of a Mercedes and into a Micra to do your shopping and be objective. The machine is fine.It cannot be compared to a Silvia which is the nearest price point because they are very different machines. The Sage was fine with some nice features but it was so easy to use it did not really give you a coffee experience. If you are after something that can be witched on 45 seconds before you need the drink and is not for making 6 cups at a time, then it is fine, but with all that electronic stiff going on, I am not sure if I would buy one or not.


Interesting, this is actually the first I've heard about this new little sage machine. The single boiler with the in-built grinder was tempting to me before as a nespresso newbie looking to get into 'real' espresso, but I read too many negatives about the grinder which put me off, plus the machine itself was quite big. I'm actually about to take a punt on a Silvia with a Mignon grinder as a kind of entry level combo into this new world, but this new sage definitely throws a small spanner into those works.


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## sodalis

This seems to be available from ao.com for £309 with free delivery, if anyone is interested.


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## 7877

I'm wondering when The Infuser model will hit the UK. It seems to me to be the Barista Express without the grinder and more of a contender in comparison with a Silvia or Classic...

http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-infuser-bes840xl.html


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## mogouk

Hi dfk41, purchased this machine a few days ago fine tweaking my shots at the mo, your extraction with the jampit was that using pressurised or unpressurised baskets?



dfk41 said:


> I have adjusted the grind a bit coarser, weighed 15 gems in with a light tamp. With the perfusion running to bout 9 seconds and the drink starting to pour at 12 seconds and finishing at 30, it extracted roughly 28 gms of Jampit. The pour was quite thick and was actually very tasty. it is the first time I have pulled a shot with a bit of care........quite impressed by it tbh


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## jeebsy

I would guess unpressuried


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## 4085

it was the unpressurised ones. throw the pressurised ones away!


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## mogouk

lol yer just making sure, not even attempted to use the pressurised ones yet

Regards...


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## MooMaa

Lakeland are now stocking the Duo Temp Pro £349.99

http://www.lakeland.co.uk/70535/Sage-The-Duo-Temp-Pro


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## A1istair

Sibling Chris said:


> I'm wondering when The Infuser model will hit the UK. It seems to me to be the Barista Express without the grinder and more of a contender in comparison with a Silvia or Classic...
> 
> http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-infuser-bes840xl.html


My thoughts exactly, would like the option of seeing the pressure at extraction as well as being able to control temperature to some degree. Infuser looks like a much better option.... if available


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## Mrboots2u

A1istair said:


> My thoughts exactly, would like the option of seeing the pressure at extraction as well as being able to control temperature to some degree. Infuser looks like a much better option.... if available


Unsure what you mean here ? you mean you want to be able to adjust pressure via an opv.. or adjust it as a variable at brewing ?


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## A1istair

The Infuser (as well as the Barista Express) are advertised by the fact you can see the pressure at the point of extraction, this is so you can learn how to pull a good shot (right pressure equals right grind/tamping). The Infuser also allows you to change the temp through the PID (4 ° either way).

Bear in mind I have no experience with making espresso and this is all through watching video reviews and reading through forums so happy to be schooled if I'm wrong.


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## mremanxx

If I am correct the OPV mod done on machines like the classic negate this feature as you cannot over pressurise the puck, am I correct inn this assumption/


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## Dylan

mremanxx said:


> If I am correct the OPV mod done on machines like the classic negate this feature as you cannot over pressurise the puck, am I correct inn this assumption/


It doesn't necessarily negate the function. You can be reasonably confident that if you set your Classic at the right pressure you will be getting this pressure each time you brew. But having it readily observable means you can see if the pressure changes and immediately correct it. If there are other functions on the machine that allow for pre-infusion the gauge will give you visual feedback about what is going on.


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## mremanxx

It's just that I did the OPV mod, set at 10bar and also fitted a gauge, but when brewing gauges goes up to 9-10 bar anyway, I did consider raising the pressure to say 12-13 so I could read the pressure but thought that 10 bar setting was the best method going by threads on the forum, that's all


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## A1istair

The mod may or may not negate the need for a dial, but for newbies who want to retain their warranty on the Breville the dial looks like it would be a great help and makes the Infuser more likely to be my bag than the duo (assuming they would both be available in the UK)


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## mremanxx

A1istair said:


> The mod may or may not negate the need for a dial, but for newbies who want to retain their warranty on the Breville the dial looks like it would be a great help and makes the Infuser more likely to be my bag than the duo (assuming they would both be available in the UK)


What you mean is it looks cool.......that's why I fitted one on the Classic? I was going to buy the Sage. Who doesn't like gadgety gadgets?


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## A1istair

Indeed looks cool, most important thing about gadgets!

Maybe someone more experienced can advise me if the pressure gauge on a barista express, double boiler or infuser does indeed help with learning how to dose and tamp or is Mr Heston pulling on over on us all?


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## Dylan

mremanxx said:


> It's just that I did the OPV mod, set at 10bar and also fitted a gauge, but when brewing gauges goes up to 9-10 bar anyway, I did consider raising the pressure to say 12-13 so I could read the pressure but thought that 10 bar setting was the best method going by threads on the forum, that's all


I'm not sure I fully understood your post... but I'll add this...

You can, for example, use the steam knob on the Classic to adjust the pressure whilst you brew, when you open it the brew pressure drops. So having a gauge on your Classic would allow you to do this with feedback as to what pressure you were hitting.


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## Dylan

A1istair said:


> Indeed looks cool, most important thing about gadgets!
> 
> Maybe someone more experienced can advise me if the pressure gauge on a barista express, double boiler or infuser does indeed help with learning how to dose and tamp or is Mr Heston pulling on over on us all?


I cannot see how dosing or tamping will be aided by a pressure gauge.


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## mremanxx

Dylan said:


> I'm not sure I fully understood your post... but I'll add this...
> 
> You can, for example, use the steam knob on the Classic to adjust the pressure whilst you brew, when you open it the brew pressure drops. So having a gauge on your Classic would allow you to do this with feedback as to what pressure you were hitting.


Didn't realise that Dylan, thanks, just the OPV mod is so popular but fitting a gauge isn't. Thought it was just people like me who thought it looks good.


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## A1istair

Okay so watch the following and tell me if it's true or false.... like a game but with no prizes


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## mremanxx

A1istair said:


> Okay so watch the following and tell me if it's true or false.... like a game but with no prizes


To be honest that was the machine I was going to buy and the gauge looked as though it was an excellent training tool. So I think along the same lines as you TBH.


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## mremanxx

Oh Oh, did I win


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## A1istair

Oh we are all winners after a coffee


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## Dylan

A1istair said:


> Okay so watch the following and tell me if it's true or false.... like a game but with no prizes


I could be missing something here, but here is my takeaway.

In that video he shows two situations where the machine is unable to achieve pressure because there is not enough resistance in the basket. Once the machine reaches brew pressure it stays there, thats what the OPV is for. If your dose and grind are in the ballpark at all your brew pressure is not going to tell you anything meaningful, its just going to tell you its at pressure.

Saying all that it is very common for a new user to get their brew ratios completely wrong, extracting too much too quickly, so I guess in this situation the gauge not reaching pressure may be a good indicator that something is up.

And I'm fairly sure a big part of having gauges is so your machine looks nice


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## mremanxx

And I'm fairly sure a big part of having gauges is so your machine looks nice









+1


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## A1istair

Thanks Dylan, good to know I wasn't going mad and misunderstanding what could go wrong.

I can see how without the gauge you could work out what was going wrong/right anyway by the fast or slow pour but sometimes it's nice to see something pointing it out. If there was an espresso machine that players the catchphrase sound effects when you got a shot right I think I would totally go for that


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## mremanxx

A1istair said:


> Thanks Dylan, good to know I wasn't going mad and misunderstanding what could go wrong.
> 
> I can see how without the gauge you could work out what was going wrong/right anyway by the fast or slow pour but sometimes it's nice to see something pointing it out. If there was an espresso machine that players the catchphrase sound effects when you got a shot right I think I would totally go for that


When you find it send me the link


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## froggystyle

froggystyle said:


> Very tempted by this machine in the new year... I do not think i will ever spend £500+ on a machine due to me only drinking maybe 1 shot per day.


hahahahaha got that wrong didn't i!


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## Fevmeister

froggystyle said:


> hahahahaha got that wrong didn't i!


i laughed when i saw it too!


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## jeebsy

Fevmeister said:


> i laughed when i saw it too!


There's some crackers from back in the day, like @garydyke1 saying he was going to upgrade to a Mazzer Mini as an 'end game' grinder


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## froggystyle

£10k later......


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