# Holy extraction Batman! £1K grinder vs £2K grinder



## Coffeejon

Just compared my Eureka Olympus 75E with my new EK43 & yes I can say without a shadow of a doubt that for £1000 extra you really can taste the difference. Smoother, cleaner more intense flavors, there is no going back.

On another note, I'm trying to set up a portafilter holder on top of a spare scale under the EK43 so I can grind directly into the portafilter without having to pre-weigh, anyone done anything similar?


----------



## Mrboots2u

You'll need to pre weigh , the ek is too fast for scales underneath .

Every cafe I've seen that uses know pre weighs ( no help at all I know )


----------



## UbiquitousPhoton

Also, the EK has the slight tendency to distribute grinds over a wide area - you will definitely want to mist your beans prior to grinding (RDT) here.

Still using one of the 3d printed funnels (not found a better solution yet!), but this still needs to be pretty much underneath the spout (and even then, I dust everything down weekly)


----------



## dan1502

Using one push of an atomiser then shaking the tin of beans works a treat. Currently I am also using a Tala mini sifter which is a ball ache but effective. I plan on modifying it to make things a bit easier (more on that in due course). I'm experimenting with and without a distribution tool to flatten before tamping. If I'm having to make lots of shots in succession I don't bother with the sifter though and the same goes for weighing the grinds; I ususally only do that when experimenting/dialling in. I have small pots with around 20.15 - 20.20 of beans in ready to use.


----------



## Coffeejon

Mrboots2u said:


> You'll need to pre weigh , the ek is too fast for scales underneath .
> 
> Every cafe I've seen that uses know pre weighs ( no help at all I know )


I'm going to pour in bit by bit, so see if it can be fairly quick. Pre-weighing sounds a pain, so will try alternatives first. Cheers


----------



## Coffeejon

UbiquitousPhoton said:


> Also, the EK has the slight tendency to distribute grinds over a wide area - you will definitely want to mist your beans prior to grinding (RDT) here.
> 
> Still using one of the 3d printed funnels (not found a better solution yet!), but this still needs to be pretty much underneath the spout (and even then, I dust everything down weekly)


It seems to me, that people pre-mist due to static on the plastic funnel underneath. If this was stainless then I don't see why you'd need to mist. I think I will try to mod somekind of funnel underneath so I don't need a funnel on the portafilter. Dunno if anyone tried this?


----------



## jlarkin

From what I've read about the EK, it's a good idea to have it running before you put the beans in - I don't know if that's a redundant comment but it seems to make the idea of getting grounds without pre-weighing pretty difficult.

The best solution, in my opinion, to avoid too much weighing is the volumetric doser from Terranova. You have to adjust it based on the beans you're using (it's straightforward to do that but worth bearing in mind if you plan to keep swapping beans during the day etc.). I have one and actually don't tend to use it day to day (but I bought it more for future uses in mind).


----------



## Mrboots2u

jlarkin said:


> From what I've read about the EK, it's a good idea to have it running before you put the beans in - I don't know if that's a redundant comment but it seems to make the idea of getting grounds without pre-weighing pretty difficult.
> 
> The best solution, in my opinion, to avoid too much weighing is the volumetric doser from Terranova. You have to adjust it based on the beans you're using (it's straightforward to do that but worth bearing in mind if you plan to keep swapping beans during the day etc.). I have one and actually don't tend to use it day to day (but I bought it more for future uses in mind).


Good point , i want to be adding beans after its been put on


----------



## UbiquitousPhoton

Dude from Mahlkonig at LCF actually seemed to think it would potentially not start up if it had beans in it, soft start would fail.

I've managed to put beans in before switching it on once, and it started ok, but would much rather have it spinning at the time, hence why I still have the enormous hopper of DOOM  (I'm cheap and don't want to buy a cutdown one) for the pull out flap as much as anything else.


----------



## dan1502

£4 for a stainless funnel which works a treat. I weigh doses 25 at a time so it's an infrequeng job which only takes a few minutes. I can't be certain but I think the static might not only be due to the plastic chute. When grinding a load of poorly roasted beans at a courser grind to help season the burrs I was suprised how much stuck all over the grinder. A tiny bit of water solves this. Also bear in mind that the bag clamp is very useful in that you flick it a couple of times and it helps any stuck grinds drop out.

By all means experiment but I've found copying an established routine to work very well and the addition of the jam filling funnel results in it being a pleasure to use. The Terranova doser does look good though I'd have to try one to judge plus I'm not sure how you's manage static with one.


----------



## arellim

It's just the size of the thing that puts me off. I wish those cut down ones were available for those with no fabrication skills!


----------



## Mrboots2u

arellim said:


> It's just the size of the thing that puts me off. I wish those cut down ones were available for those with no fabrication skills!


They were but for 2k plus


----------



## dan1502

Coffeejon said:


> It seems to me, that people pre-mist due to static on the plastic funnel underneath. If this was stainless then I don't see why you'd need to mist. I think I will try to mod somekind of funnel underneath so I don't need a funnel on the portafilter. Dunno if anyone tried this?


----------



## Coffeejon

dan1502 said:


> £4 for a stainless funnel which works a treat. I weigh doses 25 at a time so it's an infrequeng job which only takes a few minutes. I can't be certain but I think the static might not only be due to the plastic chute. When grinding a load of poorly roasted beans at a courser grind to help season the burrs I was suprised how much stuck all over the grinder. A tiny bit of water solves this. Also bear in mind that the bag clamp is very useful in that you flick it a couple of times and it helps any stuck grinds drop out.
> 
> By all means experiment but I've found copying an established routine to work very well and the addition of the jam filling funnel results in it being a pleasure to use. The Terranova doser does look good though I'd have to try one to judge plus I'm not sure how you's manage static with one.


thx for the thoughts.

I've just bought a 500g hopper (£85!!) as I also need to use it as a normal bulk grinder. (Big hopper doesn't fit under shelf) Regarding doses. Do you use this for your personal use? As I'm using it commercially in a coffee shop, so really reluctant to have to dose 100's of shots. We'll see.

I'm hesitant to put water through a grinder (though I understand why it's done) The previous owner did this and the coffee has stuck heavily around the screw spindle. Had to work to get this off, so not keen to put slightly damp coffee though it.

Yer the doser looks good, so might try my own variant in time. Cheers


----------



## coffeechap

I will be cutting mine down soon and more than likely selling it on


----------



## Mrboots2u

@ronsil had a funnel thing too at one point


----------



## dan1502

arellim said:


> It's just the size of the thing that puts me off. I wish those cut down ones were available for those with no fabrication skills!


https://www.gumtree.com/p/coffee-machines/unused-mahlkonig-coffee-grinder/1193894250


----------



## Coffeejon

Yer exacly this set up. Though I'm going to put the holder on a scale so I can weigh the shot (then add a little more if needed) Also the stainless funnel on the outlet is perfect, do you know where this is from? Cheers


----------



## UbiquitousPhoton

The slightly infamous (and mysterious) EK43 Barista had a metal funnel-ey thing.

I still think you need to mist though, the grinds get charged by the friction of the burrs, and this results in rather undesirable results in my experience. Its no big thing.


----------



## dan1502

I believe there are those who weigh out single doses for commercial use but yes, I am using it for personal use. I tend to clean mine each time I change beans (and more often lately as I've been calibrating it etc) and have had not issues with build up as yet.

Incidentally are you interested in some of the official grease Mahlkonig uses? I'm planning on popping into town at dinner time to find some small plastic tubs to put it in then I shall advertise them.


----------



## Coffeejon

UbiquitousPhoton said:


> I still think you need to mist though, the grinds get charged by the friction of the burrs, and this results in rather undesirable results in my experience. Its no big thing.


Is this specifically because the burrs are bigger than others? does the R120 need to dampen the beans?


----------



## Coffeejon

dan1502 said:


> Incidentally are you interested in some of the official grease Mahlkonig uses? I'm planning on popping into town at dinner time to find some small plastic tubs to put it in then I shall advertise them.


Hi dan, yes I would be. Let me know when you re-tube it. Cheers


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Coffeejon said:


> On another note, I'm trying to set up a portafilter holder on top of a spare scale under the EK43 so I can grind directly into the portafilter without having to pre-weigh, anyone done anything similar?


Been down that route - can be done but don't recommend it if you want to get the most even and consistent extractions which require the grinds to be thoroughly shaken to ensure even distribution of the fines. You can try the WDT method using a toothpick or such to move the grinds around in the portafilter but, IMO, this doesn't work well. Better to dose from the EK into something like a cocktail tumbler and then cup you hand over so you can shake the bejeebers out of it before dumping into the portafilter.


----------



## Coffeejon

Just seen this. This is more where I'm going

http://www.pictaram.com/media/1241869574670702548_3182516844


----------



## coffeechap

Coffeejon said:


> Is this specifically because the burrs are bigger than others? does the R120 need to dampen the beans?


Nope the r120 does not need wdt


----------



## Mrboots2u

Coffeejon said:


> Just seen this. This is more where I'm going
> 
> http://www.pictaram.com/media/1241869574670702548_3182516844


Lol if you beat Mahl there let us know , they seem to be struggling with the concept for the EK too ..


----------



## ronsil

Mrboots2u said:


> @ronsil had a funnel thing too at one point


That's some memory you've got there Martin!

I had a funnel given & sent to me by someone in the USA. It worked very well when I needed to fill up to 4 PFs one after the other.

Don't find the use for the water spray anymore.

After grinding into the stainless steel pitcher I hold at an angle & thump the sides with my palm at the same time as revolving the pitcher.

You can see any lumps break down as you go.

Pours neatly direct into the 'Coffee Katcha'.

Finally tap the sides all round the PF & get a lovely fluffy flat surface ready for tamping (lightly)


----------



## Coffeejon

ronsil said:


> That's some memory you've got there Martin!
> 
> I had a funnel given & sent to me by someone in the USA. It worked very well when I needed to fill up to 4 PFs one after the other.
> 
> Don't find the use for the water spray anymore.
> 
> After grinding into the stainless steel pitcher I hold at an angle & thump the sides with my palm at the same time as revolving the pitcher.
> 
> You can see any lumps break down as you go.
> 
> Pours neatly direct into the 'Coffee Katcha'.
> 
> Finally tap the sides all round the PF & get a lovely fluffy flat surface ready for tamping (lightly)


Do you have a pic of the setup, just so I can get an idea? How come you don't add water anymore? Many thx for your info, very helpful


----------



## grumpydaddy

What are the diameters of the output chute in case an attachment were needed ?


----------



## PaulL

Am I right in thinking an EK43 77cm tall and some of you are using them at home? Kudos for getting it past SWMBO


----------



## dan1502

Coffeejon said:


> Hi dan, yes I would be. Let me know when you re-tube it. Cheers


I've just been into town and picked up some 125ml plastic food containers to put it in which were the smallest I could find. I could have used self seal bags but these will be less messy and much more handy to use. I need to check the price of postage and double check what the large tub came to including delivery then I'll post in the for sale section later today or tomorrow. I'll put up prices for 50g and 100g.


----------



## dan1502

PaulL said:


> Am I right in thinking an EK43 77cm tall and some of you are using them at home? Kudos for getting it past SWMBO


Not quite so bad with a hopper like this on but won't fit under units:










The footprint's not so bad and as the support is quite slender it doesn't look that big in place or maybe it's just like when you buy a bigger TV and it seems huge at first but not once you're used to it.


----------



## UbiquitousPhoton

SWMBO quite likes the grinder, as it looks retro









Certainly makes a statement, admittedly - It is hidden away in the utility room, however SWMBO actually expressed a wish that it and the Vesuvius were more on show!

Not going to happen though, because ... cabinets :|


----------



## dan1502

Mine's in the dining room and my preparation space is the dining room table!


----------



## Thecatlinux

Ek's are pug ugly sort of a soviet eastern block converted food mixer


----------



## Mrboots2u

Thecatlinux said:


> Ek's are pug ugly sort of a soviet eastern block converted food mixer


Being half polish and born in the late 60's that's probably why i like them


----------



## hotmetal

Hahaha! Food mixer was exactly my first thought. I wouldn't say ugly - I'm a 'form follows function' sort of guy and I also kind of like the industrial retro looks. Will be sticking with my E37s though. I have a fairly low faff threshold!


----------



## grumpydaddy

I'm quite sure you could make a Mythos style enclosure for it if the aesthetic is that important


----------



## Thecatlinux

grumpydaddy said:


> I'm quite sure you could make a Mythos style enclosure for it if the aesthetic is that important


 Aesthetics not important , what this can produce in the cup makes up for its functionality and form


----------



## Phobic

retro chic, they look great


----------



## lotuseater

Thecatlinux said:


> Ek's are pug ugly sort of a soviet eastern block converted food mixer


I think they are a work of art, a design classic. I could buy one for the looks alone. Achingly desireable.

Any SWMBO with an industrial kitchen fetish ought to love them too.


----------



## Thecatlinux

Fugly


----------



## Scotford

Coffeejon said:


> Do you use this for your personal use? As I'm using it commercially in a coffee shop, so really reluctant to have to dose 100's of shots.
> 
> I'm hesitant to put water through a grinder (though I understand why it's done) The previous owner did this and the coffee has stuck heavily around the screw spindle. Had to work to get this off, so not keen to put slightly damp coffee though it.


I use an EK for about 100 or so shots a day, plus grinding retail bags, plus grinding for batch brew and, *really*, pre-dosing is really the only way forward if you want any consistency. THESE would probably be your best bet, think they hold about 25g beans max and they are cheap as chips for a business. I have some that can hold 115g for batch brew too. Pre-dosing takes 10 mins (max) to dose up 50 shots. I have a system where I use my OHAUS scales and the IR tare function and it takes me about 15 minutes to make up 75 shots and 5 batches for bulk.

What you need more than trying to make a 'grind-to-PF/volumetric grinding/timered dosing' system is a decent method of distributing after grinding and STILL pre-dosing. I have one of those Lyn Weber tumbler/shaker things and it has sped up bar flow infinitely when it comes to using an EK. No more static problems either. Lovely shots, lovely flow, less stressed staff, happier customers, tastier coffee.

If you are *only* using an EK for bar service, I'd still suggest you pre-dose, but take a good read of THIS and THIS then definitely have a watch of


----------



## Coffeejon

Scotford said:


> I use an EK for about 100 or so shots a day, plus grinding retail bags, plus grinding for batch brew and, *really*, pre-dosing is really the only way forward if you want any consistency. THESE would probably be your best bet, think they hold about 25g beans max and they are cheap as chips for a business. I have some that can hold 115g for batch brew too. Pre-dosing takes 10 mins (max) to dose up 50 shots. I have a system where I use my OHAUS scales and the IR tare function and it takes me about 15 minutes to make up 75 shots and 5 batches for bulk.
> 
> What you need more than trying to make a 'grind-to-PF/volumetric grinding/timered dosing' system is a decent method of distributing after grinding and STILL pre-dosing. I have one of those Lyn Weber tumbler/shaker things and it has sped up bar flow infinitely when it comes to using an EK. No more static problems either. Lovely shots, lovely flow, less stressed staff, happier customers, tastier coffee.
> 
> If you are *only* using an EK for bar service, I'd still suggest you pre-dose, but take a good read of THIS and THIS then definitely have a watch of


Thx for this, really helpful. I'm not pre-dosing yet, but might soon. Do you know what the funnel is they are using, that would be very useful. Cheers again


----------



## Scotford

@Coffeejon who?


----------



## dan1502

I presume you mean on the video. That looks a bit like a Kilner one but it might be something similar made to fit. The 3d printed ones on here work very well and lock onto the portafilter.


----------



## Coffeejon

Scotford said:


> @Coffeejon who?


Yup the one in the video. Do you use a funnel? If so what do u use


----------



## Scotford

Lyn Weber shaker. The tumbler is just as good.


----------



## Phobic

I do love my shaker though it does pile grounds up very high in the center of the PF which make distribution a pain without either spreading grounds everywhere or over compacting in the middle - any tips on the best way to use it?

best thing I've found is to get the PF a few taps on the counter with the shaker still on top, however that compacts the grounds unevenly a fair bit


----------



## garydyke1

Phobic said:


> I do love my shaker though it does pile grounds up very high in the center of the PF which make distribution a pain without either spreading grounds everywhere or over compacting in the middle - any tips on the best way to use it?
> 
> best thing I've found is to get the PF a few taps on the counter with the shaker still on top, however that compacts the grounds unevenly a fair bit


You need a Garyshuddershake™


----------



## dan1502

Lol, I did manage one of those this morning but it's not often they end up perfectly level. Practice I guess.


----------



## garydyke1

dan1502 said:


> Lol, I did manage one of those this morning but it's not often they end up perfectly level. Practice I guess.


A cheeky OCD tool manoeuvre whilst no ones looking


----------



## Phobic

the sieve and shake method is better much more consistent imho, but takes longer than the shaker...


----------



## Scotford

#technique


----------

