# Lever owners with conical grinders



## 4085

I am at a loss! I have not been enjoying my usual style of beans over the past few weeks, and I wonder if it is me. I would love to hear from any lever owners with conical grinders who use medium roasted beans. I have just ordered some medium Brighton Lanes and I want to know if others successfully use the same style of beans.

The reason I am asking is that I had always held the belief that conicals get the best out of dark beans but had never really considered them for anything else. One coffee shop locally roast very light and they use a Kony


----------



## jeebsy

Shouldn't have been so quick to sell the M1...


----------



## Thecatlinux

Although I can I taste the difference between my conical grinder and the flat burr grinder I would have always put that down to how the beans were ground and the differences and influences of the distribution ( mix of particles) .

wether the conical grinder is better for a darker roast is debatable ,

I am more in the camp of each and every grinder has its own influence on what ends up in the cup ,


----------



## Mr O

What were your usual beans that you have gone off?


----------



## 4085

jeebsy said:


> Shouldn't have been so quick to sell the M1...


Why not? I can buy another one if I want to? This was not about flat v conical. This is about the ability of the conical to handle beans that are not dark jeebsy


----------



## 4085

Mr O said:


> What were your usual beans that you have gone off?


I have preferred dark and mahogany roasted beans for ages,but there is just something lacking at the moment, so am exploring the options open to me


----------



## jeebsy

Just making a flippant joke type comment on how maybe it's the flat burr magic that's missing


----------



## 4085

I have a flat burr grinder! I do not have any non dark beans though! I had a sample pack of some elephant things but just had them in a siphon as my neighbour is busy hacking my short hopper.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Local cafe has a robur and light roasted blend , handles it fine. Was used on both a lever machine and a pump...

Taste is Probably more about how you extract a medium roasted bean, that grinder a is better at it than grinder b . Not all beans taste tasty at same dose in and out


----------



## 4085

How long have refractometers been around then, what did people do before the science and do traditional Italian coffee shops use them?


----------



## coffeechap

Most italian coffee shops serve the italian palet (which is not to my taste!)


----------



## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> How long have refractometers been around then, what did people do before the science and do traditional Italian coffee shops use them?


they still made different extraction types to reflect the best from different beans.

Ristretto, normal, lungo...= different amounts of water through different amounts of coffee..

You don't need a refract to do that .


----------



## 4085

But if you cannot measure it then how would you know if it was any good?


----------



## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> But if you cannot measure it then how would you know if it was any good?


Tiresome .....


----------



## 4085

Not at all. I am curious. Can you answer me


----------



## urbanbumpkin

dfk41 said:


> How long have refractometers been around then, what did people do before the science and do traditional Italian coffee shops use them?


Not that long.

Not Extract coffee that well.

Probably not as they over roast their beans and like Robusta


----------



## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> Not at all. I am curious. Can you answer me


Yes but can't be arsed...we have done this 100 times before ...

Have fun


----------



## MWJB

It's not about refractometers, but they have been around for a couple of hundred years. It's about EY measurement, a coffee refractometer makes it quick & easy, without using up a significant part of the drink. EY measurement via dehydration (takes hours) has been around roughly as long as espresso as we know it, though was more typically employed with respect to brewed coffee, prior to widespread use of the coffee refractometer.

Italians use(d) dose & volume out over time to make Italian Espresso. Just like using EY measurement, you dial in by taste.


----------



## 4085

Mrboots2u said:


> Yes but can't be arsed...we have done this 100 times before ...
> 
> Have fun


We have never broached this topic in this way. How am I to learn if u dismiss me?


----------



## Glenn

dfk41 said:


> How long have refractometers been around then, what did people do before the science and do traditional Italian coffee shops use them?


Dial in first by taste, then by measurements (to tweak) once you have a baseline established.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Glenn said:


> Dial in first by taste, then by measurements (to tweak) once you have a baseline established.


Glenn you drink numbers only . that's what I do at home . sip a drink and go.." What a lovley 20 percent this is "


----------



## 4085

Mrboots2u said:


> Glenn you drink numbers only . that's what I do at home . sip a drink and go.." What a lovley 20 percent this is "


so what you are really saying, is you do not refract, you are just playing around


----------



## The Systemic Kid

I don't get out of bed for 20%.


----------



## 4085

The Systemic Kid said:


> I don't get out of bed for 20%.


me neither.....I am with you Patrick


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dfk41 said:


> me neither.....I am with you Patrick


What? Getting out of bed or 20%?


----------



## 4085

Actually, both


----------



## Terranova

dfk41 said:


> The reason I am asking is that I had always held the belief that conicals get the best out of dark beans but had never really considered them for anything else. One coffee shop locally roast very light and they use a Kony


Hi Dave.

A darker roast is much more forgiving than a light roast, so even with a conical handgrinder you are able to pull some good shots with medium / dark roast.

In general a conical grinder is more forgiving regarding flow rate than a flat burr grinder is, but due to the wide spread distribution in particle size range of a conical, it is much harder to find the sweet spot.

A flat burr grinder with maximum parallel cutting parts will make lighter roasts taste much better. (subjective)

To say that a conical grinder fits better to a lever (in general) is the same myth like the bigger the better.


----------



## 4085

Terranova said:


> Hi Dave.
> 
> A darker roast is much more forgiving than a light roast, so even with a conical handgrinder you are able to pull some good shots with medium / dark roast.
> 
> In general a conical grinder is more forgiving regarding flow rate than a flat burr grinder is, but due to the wide spread distribution in particle size range of a conical, it is much harder to find the sweet spot.
> 
> A flat burr grinder with maximum parallel cutting parts will make lighter roasts taste much better. (subjective)
> 
> To say that a conical grinder fits better to a lever in side by side comparison is the same myth like the bigger the better.


Thanks Frank.....I will have some medium roasted beans on Monday to play with, and soon work out how the conical does with them. The trouble with coffee, as you know, is the fact that a lot of facts are not facts....if that makes sense!


----------



## 4085

Terranova said:


> Hi Dave.
> 
> A darker roast is much more forgiving than a light roast, so even with a conical handgrinder you are able to pull some good shots with medium / dark roast.
> 
> In general a conical grinder is more forgiving regarding flow rate than a flat burr grinder is, but due to the wide spread distribution in particle size range of a conical, it is much harder to find the sweet spot.
> 
> A flat burr grinder with maximum parallel cutting parts will make lighter roasts taste much better. (subjective)
> 
> To say that a conical grinder fits better to a lever (in general) is the same myth like the bigger the better.


Frank, have you seen this thread?

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?25454-Conical-weight-solution

In a nutshell, I took a small hopper for my E10, cut away the mushroom then put some beans in with a bag sitting on top wit 750 grams of ceramic beads in. The bag seems to sit perfectly to the shape the beans and this means that I have a uniform weight pushing the actual beans through. I have noticed good uniformity of grind and faster grind times.

Any thoughts mate?


----------



## Thecatlinux

IMHO it all comes down to what results you achieve in the cup and how those results translate into what your perception and more importantly how close you are to achieving your personal taste ,

The grinder needs to fulfilled these demands with as least amount of hassle and a fine degree of consistency, if you find an easier journey with a conical over flats , then the choice is obvious .

As for the science behind measuring EY the way I see it , my taste buds are almost always shot after tasting 4-5 similar shots , so if measuring it is going to get you close to start point then why wouldn't you .

everyones journey is different and we all have own personal take on things ,


----------



## Terranova

dfk41 said:


> Frank, have you seen this thread?
> 
> http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?25454-Conical-weight-solution
> 
> In a nutshell, I took a small hopper for my E10, cut away the mushroom then put some beans in with a bag sitting on top wit 750 grams of ceramic beads in. The bag seems to sit perfectly to the shape the beans and this means that I have a uniform weight pushing the actual beans through. I have noticed good uniformity of grind and faster grind times.
> 
> Any thoughts mate?


Very cool, I am sure this will give you much better results than single dosing with that grinder.


----------



## 4085

Terranova said:


> Very cool, I am sure this will give you much better results than single dosing with that grinder.


I have never single dosed with it. I believe that if you have a big commercial grinder then you have to accept what goes with it. My train of thought was simply how the home user could apply the sort of weight a cafe could have with a full hopper, needed to push the beans through, but without using beans, if that makes sense! Does that fit in with your thoughts on conicals and single dosing


----------



## coffeechap

I guess taste is king here Dave, I really like what I am getting from the compak r120, but that is not to say it is to everyone's taste, it has incredible clarity with the l1p, but I still enjoy shots that I pull from the Nino, with weight of bean across medium and darker roasts, not one for really dark so can't comment on those.


----------



## CamV6

David have you tried removing the shower screen, cleaning, and cleaning the bottom of the piston on your lever? This can make a massive difference if not regularly done.

Sorry if this is stating the obvious / lesson in sucking eggs


----------



## 4085

Cam, not sure if i follow the point!


----------



## coffeechap

dfk41 said:


> Cam, not sure if i follow the point!


Is your screen manky


----------



## 4085

Yes, it's manky and I still don't follow! Are we both David?


----------



## coffeechap

Mankky screens affect the coffee, and yes we are both David


----------



## 4085

coffeechap said:


> Mankky screens affect the coffee, and yes we are both David


I thought you meant iPad screen! I was not sure where cams comment came from!


----------



## coffeechap

Have you removed your shower screen on the veloce recently a dirty screen will effect the flavour if the coffee and as the beans you predominately use are darker more oily beans, there is a much greater chance that your shower screen is dirty! This could be the contributing factor not the grinder!


----------



## garydyke1

dfk41 said:


> Why not? I can buy another one if I want to? This was not about flat v conical. This is about the ability of the conical to handle beans that are not dark jeebsy


Habitat in Aberfeldy use Compak Conical and Has Bean light-medium roast . Doesnt do them any harm

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/perth-kinross/aberfeldy-s-habitat-cafe-serves-up-award-winning-espresso-1.149612


----------



## 4085

It was a milk to espresso ratio. If I increase the milk all becomes well again


----------



## 4085

I am always a little suspicious of cafes that win awards for cleanliness and staff training, which are obviously, a small part of the ability to produce a decent shot. The coffee might taste like @@@@ but the barista has no dirt under his nails!


----------



## CamV6

Well you were saying your coffee hasne been as good as normal lately but it seems all the other variables are the same.

As Dave has helped by saying the residues of oils and particles build up both on the screen and the bottom leading edge of the piston over time thus leaving you with a murky and muted flavour from your coffee.

I was having the same issue. Cleaned my screen and piston bottom and hey presto, good coffee returned.

This is a maintenance that according to Reiss should be done about every three months. There's a post about it on his blog not that long ago.. Since the L1 and Veloce share he same group, the advice should apply equally.

Just try it, what's there to lose? If it doesn't help at least you can rule that out as the issue....but I suspect it will do the trick


----------



## garydyke1

dfk41 said:


> I am always a little suspicious of cafes that win awards for cleanliness and staff training, which are obviously, a small part of the ability to produce a decent shot. The coffee might taste like @@@@ but the barista has no dirt under his nails!


Eh?

The award I was referring to was ''Best Drinks Award for Best Small Espresso''


----------



## 4085

CamV6 said:


> Well you were saying your coffee hasne been as good as normal lately but it seems all the other variables are the same.
> 
> As Dave has helped by saying the residues of oils and particles build up both on the screen and the bottom leading edge of the piston over time thus leaving you with a murky and muted flavour from your coffee.
> 
> I was having the same issue. Cleaned my screen and piston bottom and hey presto, good coffee returned.
> 
> This is a maintenance that according to Reiss should be done about every three months. There's a post about it on his blog not that long ago.. Since the L1 and Veloce share he same group, the advice should apply equally.
> 
> Just try it, what's there to lose? If it doesn't help at least you can rule that out as the issue....but I suspect it will do the trick


Hi Cam, I got lost in all the different lever threads and once I had back tracked a bit I picked it up. Am going to go and. Heck my screen right now.

Many thanks


----------



## 4085

garydyke1 said:


> Eh?
> 
> The award I was referring to was ''Best Drinks Award for Best Small Espresso''


I just read the whole article rather than just the award bit, hence my. Moment referring to marketing balderdash!


----------



## CamV6

dfk41 said:


> Hi Cam, I got lost in all the different lever threads and once I had back tracked a bit I picked it up. Am going to go and. Heck my screen right now.
> 
> Many thanks


Clean the bottom of the piston too


----------



## 4085

I took the shower screen off. I have one of those Cafelat. Circular type brushes which make cleaning the head a doddle. It was quite dirty but nothing too spectacular. All put back together now. Many thanks


----------



## CamV6

let us know if the shots improve as a result


----------



## CamV6

@dfk41 how did it go? Did the clean up improve the shots ?


----------



## 4085

CamV6 said:


> @dfk41 how did it go? Did the clean up improve the shots ?


The shots are definitely better but I have made a few other adjustments as well. It really is worthwhile dropping the screen every couple of months. I mentioned those cafelat cleaners and they save a load of time

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/cafelat-group-head-cleaning-brush.html

Good call Cam!


----------



## CamV6

Excellent. Chuffed


----------



## Mrboots2u

Do you clean / soak your baskets and the pf ( if spouted ) also ?


----------



## 4085

Mrboots2u said:


> Do you clean / soak your baskets and the pf ( if spouted ) also ?


no, never....why would I do that?


----------



## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> no, never....why would I do that?


Oils accumilate in a spouted pf ( unless it stainless steel ) .

If you havent , take the basket out and have a look inside

Small holes in a basket can get clogged by the same

I soak my shower screen , baskets and spouted pf once a week in puly caff


----------



## jeebsy

It gets barking inside the basket/pf....defo worth cleaning on the reg


----------



## CamV6

Clean the baskets you say eh? I've never considered that. I always purge a little water through before each shot so I assumed that would be enough


----------



## jeebsy

View attachment 15680


They get all rank and dirty with oils, cleaned once a month at least


----------



## garydyke1

My god what are people drinking


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Oils accumilate in a spouted pf ( unless it stainless steel ) .
> 
> If you havent , take the basket out and have a look inside
> 
> Small holes in a basket can get clogged by the same
> 
> I soak my shower screen , baskets and spouted pf once a week in puly caff


Even stainless accumulates oils, it just doesn't permanently stain it and eat away at the finish.


----------



## 4085

Mrboots2u said:


> Oils accumilate in a spouted pf ( unless it stainless steel ) .
> 
> If you havent , take the basket out and have a look inside
> 
> Small holes in a basket can get clogged by the same
> 
> I soak my shower screen , baskets and spouted pf once a week in puly caff


Oh boots, when will you learn to read me better?


----------



## Mrboots2u

Queue canned laughter... Hilarious


----------



## Mrboots2u

It's hard to tell your actual noob questions from your fake ones. Sorry I'll try harder


----------



## 4085

Mrboots2u said:


> It's hard to tell your actual noob questions from your fake ones. Sorry I'll try harder


I did not ask the question darling, you did.......


----------



## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> I did not ask the question darling, you did.......


Got work today Mr Kidd. You'll have to find another way to amuse yourself ..enjoy


----------



## 4085

Mrboots2u said:


> Got work today Mr Kidd. You'll have to find another way to amuse yourself ..enjoy


ask long as the facts are incorrectly presented, I am quite happy....enjoy your day


----------



## jlarkin

dfk41 said:


> I did not ask the question darling, you did.......


Below looks like a question though?

Also I'm confused if you really did or didn't need to clean your shower screen now?



dfk41 said:


> no, never....why would I do that?


----------



## 4085

jlarkin said:


> Below looks like a question though?
> 
> Also I'm confused if you really did or didn't need to clean your shower screen now?


That was a response to boots question in the previous line! Rest assured, I have been around coffee for about 15 years now. Whenever I pull a shot, I wipe the inside of the basket out with a towel or kitchen roll and sometimes put it under the steam wand. Once a month, or thereabouts, I put my baskets and pf handle with a spit into cafes or whatever I have handy, to get back to new


----------



## ronsil

dfk41 said:


> Once a month, or thereabouts, I put my baskets and pf handle with a spit into cafes or whatever I have handy, to get back to new


That doesn't sound very nice. Slip of the fingers I guess(hope)


----------



## 4085

ronsil said:


> That doesn't sound very nice. Slip of the fingers I guess(hope)


I am not even sure what I meant to say now Ron.....I think it was a spot of cafiza.....


----------

