# Rocket R58 vs new Alex Duetto III (aka Alex Duetto Mk IV in the UK)



## Glenn

The review below is a summary of my thoughts and not intended to be a full in-depth analysis of each machine

Today I had the pleasure of spending a delightful 4 hours at Bella Barista, hosted by Claudette and her team.

The aim was to evaluate the R58 vs Alex Duetto Mk IV (aka new Alex Duetto III in the US) side-by-side and walk away with the winner.

I had previously narrowed my search to replace my home machine to either of these dual boiler espresso machines.

  

click to enlarge

Also on the bench was the ECM Heidelberg espresso machine (HX), which I used to dial in the grinder (the Eureka Mignon) and pull reference shots on, for a coffee that I was familiar with.

This machine was so forgiving and produced not only lovely espresso but some of the best milk I have steamed in a long time - a glossy paint finish which was perfect for latte art.

I would have happily parted with £1099 if I was in the market for this type of machine.

Of the 3 machines this had the best drip tray too, shallow and wide, with plenty of cup clearance and ample room to move cups around.

I initially pulled shots using the stock basket before switching to a 20g VST basket for the evaluation of the R58 and Alex Duetto Mk IV.

The same coffee, grinder, basket, portafilter, tamper and milk was used for all tests.

The Rocket R58 was up next. The first shot ran a little too fast, so a tweak to the grind was required, and the next shot was sublime. Easily one of the cleanest espresso's I had tasted this year. You could pick out the individual flavours and the aroma was more intense than on the ECM. With a rotary pump the Rocket R58 was also quieter than the ECM. There was no 'whine' as reported on earlier models and the pressure was pretty steady - no flickering of the manometer needles at all.

Both the Rocket R58 and the Alex Duetto Mk IV were set to the same service boiler temperature and held steady at 93c throughout the evaluation period.

Changing the settings using the external controls on the R58 was easy and the interface is fairly intuitive, but I wasn't a fan of the coiled cable connecting the control box to the chassis, cluttering up the workspace. If you intend to 'set and forget' then this is not an issue.

The Rocket R58 is a real looker and wins the beauty contest - but I wasn't judging beauty so tested the steam capability to see what I could achieve.

Better than expected is how I would describe the steaming on the R58. Noticeably more powerful than the ECM the steam through the standard 2 hole steam tip was consistent and handled different volumes of milk with ease. My second jug was the best from this session. I would have liked to spend more time adjusting steam boiler pressure to see how the different increments affect the milk. This however would be best achieved when I could focus on the one machine.

The shots and milk I enjoyed would have justified the £600 price difference between these machines.

After spending 20 minutes on the machine, tweaks and changes to the grind produced some lovely looking (and tasting) espressos and my wife was starting to feel the effects of the coffee.

We took a quick break and Claudette roasted some Tanzanian coffee on the Gene Café roaster. I was genuinely surprised at how little smoke there was. My wife was showing a lot of interest in the Gene Café roaster as well, which is encouraging! Although for the time being I'm quite happy to let the experts roast and discover the fruits of their labour.

After a pint of water later and a quick tour of the Towability factory next door it was time to evaluate the Alex Duetto Mk IV. I pulled a shot on the R58 then tried to replicate on the Duetto.

A minor tweak to the grind was required (again a fraction finer) and the resulting shot was excellent - with more crema and viscosity than on the R58.

I had to check this was no fluke and pulled several more in quick succession - each tasting the same - rich and silky smooth. I could have had another but needed to evaluate the steaming capability so set about preparing my milk jug. The Alex Duetto Mk IV steam is very dry. Plenty of power behind it and that's with the no-burn steam arm insert still in. I have been told by a couple of owners that I spoke to earlier this month that one of the first mods to make after getting to grips with the machine is to remove the tube - giving you even more steam power.

However, putting aside those thoughts I gave the steaming a shot. I hadn't expected such power and too many bubbles were created. Starting afresh I adjusted the angle and depth and turned the steam knob. Not as easy as the R58 but I'm glad that no 'radiator tap' retrofits have been made as some distributors in the US have done. This jug was pretty good and I could see what to do to make the next one even better. Several small adjustments later (this biggest change to me was steaming on the left instead of on the right like I'm used to) and I could produce lovely milk time after time. I still have a way to go but already notice an improvement on my previous technique.

So, the Alex Duetto Mk IV was producing nicer espresso than the R58 and milk every bit as nice as the ECM. Although I think the R58 has the edge in milk steaming (that is until I remove the no burn steam arm and evaluate again)

The R58 won on looks and had better cup clearance than the Duetto. However removal of the drip tray was not as smooth on the R58 compared to the Duetto (which also holds more water / liquid).

The rotary pump on the Alex Duetto Mk IV was even quieter than the R58. I hadn't anticipated the difference would be so tangible.

By this stage I had written out the cheque in my mind, and nearing the edge of my caffeine tolerance levels (I think I pushed them a little today) decided upon the Alex Duetto Mk IV as my new home espresso machine. After informing Claudette of my decision all that remained was to choose the box from the stock room and get the machine bench tested.

The bench testing process was very thorough and Bella Barista's techie Jordan ran me through the PID settings and set the defaults based on testing undertaken by their reviewer. The factory defaults are also provided for future reference.

After the great service provided of loading the machine into the car, carrying an awkwardly shaped 44kg+ box containing the machine and accessories up 3 flights of stairs by yourself isn't fun. But after mounting the feet and warming up the machine, pulling a shot was the best reward.


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## coffeechap

Well done dude, hope you are happy with it.


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## ronsil

Congratulations Glenn on your choice. I would guess your Home Coffee has moved up a notch or two.

I know you used to have a Classic, is this a direct replacement for that or have you been using something else recently?.

Anyway enjoy your purchase.


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## Glenn

Direct replacement, but a number of machines grace my bench and I love exploring filter brewing methods as well.


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## glevum

Great review Glenn. I wanted a dual boiler, R58 or Duetto. They are both stunning machines. I could not justify that much money at the moment so i opted for a HX machine. Its taken me a few weeks to master the cooling flush and now the rewards are starting to show.

This might sound unrealistic, If Rocket did not want the PID on the machine so not to spoil its looks perhap they should have done a wireless device. For me, i think that detachable lead is outdated.


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## IanP

Great to see you were so impressed with the Duetto Glenn. My few weeks of amateurish dabbling with mine have already wowed me with its performance, so can only imagine what it is capable of in expert hands like yours. Looking forward to seeing you leading on the new Duetto forum......?

Hope you continue to be thrilled with it.


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## Glenn

This Alex Duetto forum?


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## lookseehear

Great write up Glenn and congrats on the purchase. The new steam tips arrived yesterday so I'll send you a pm now.


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## RoloD

glevum said:


> This might sound unrealistic, If Rocket did not want the PID on the machine so not to spoil its looks perhap they should have done a wireless device. For me, i think that detachable lead is outdated.


 I agree. I think having the PID separate 'so as not to spoil the looks' is bad design - it's form winning over function or a digitally-controlled machine pretending it isn't. Last year I was just about to buy the R58 when the separate PID control put me off - in the end I went the lever route.

Just as a matter of interest, Glenn, did you consider a lever machine at this point?


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## CoffeeDoc

Thank you Glen for the detailed description of your day at Bella Barista and your conclusions on the machines. Your choice has reassured me that having done the same thing two weeks ago but in a much more amateurish way that I made the right choice.

Paul


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## reneb

Great review Glenn and congratulations - it's a really lovely machine and I can see why you chose it over the R58. I think the R58's PID solution is a very poor compromise. The R58 is the prettier of the two, but the Duetto is still a very pretty looking piece of kit and seems to be the better of the two overall, though it's obviously very close.

Echo what you say about the ECM as well, it is a great machine and really good value and very forgiving - well if i can pull half decent shots on it it must be







.


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## Glenn

RoloD said:


> Just as a matter of interest, Glenn, did you consider a lever machine at this point?


Yes and No

On this occasion a lever machine does not meet all my requirements - which mainly are the ability to change brew temperature and steam pressure on the go - to test a range of espresso and milks and creatively explore coffee.

I needed a machine that my home barista training clients can relate to (and operates in a similar way to theirs)

At this stage they are 5:1 pump:lever machine owners

I will purchase a lever machine in the future. Most probably a Londinium I. The shots I enjoyed during the testing period were stellar and my wife is still going on about how good the coffee she enjoyed from that machine (yours I think) is.


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## RoloD

Glenn said:


> On this occasion a lever machine does not meet all my requirements - which mainly are the ability to change brew temperature and steam pressure on the go - to test a range of espresso and milks and creatively explore coffee.
> 
> I needed a machine that my home barista training clients can relate to (and operates in a similar way to theirs)
> 
> At this stage they are 5:1 pump:lever machine owners
> 
> I will purchase a lever machine in the future. Most probably a Londinium I. The shots I enjoyed during the testing period were stellar and my wife is still going on about how good the coffee she enjoyed from that machine (yours I think) is.


That all makes absolute sense.

Yes, indeed, my Londinium I is the very same one you had on trial (except now it is plumbed in). Still delivering the stellar goods.


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## Big Tony

Great little write up there Glenn, thoroughly enjoyed the read


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## shrink

a great read... and food for thought, as they are the two machines i'd find myself upgrading to over the cherub (unless I win the lottery, and then i'm getting a GS3







)


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## Pablo

Superb review, especially I've been eyeing up the R58 and Duetto for a purchase in the next couple of months.

Thanks


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## Glenn

For those asking about the ECM Barista espresso machine, here it is next to the R58 and Alex Duetto


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## Glenn

Here's a look inside the Alex Duetto Mk IV










Pump is top left

Service Boiler is Bottom Left

Steam Boiler is Bottom Right

Note the vented holes in the inner case

The outer case is cool to the touch.


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## Father_Java

Hi Glenn, what a lovely 'work of art' your new Duetto is. Enjoy.

Now, here's an offer I don't think you will be able to refuse&#8230; I have given this considerable thought since I saw your first post on your new Duetto&#8230;.. although I know you will think my offer is too good to be true, and I guess it maybe is from your perspective&#8230;however, I am willing to offer you a straight swap. I am willing to let you have my new (well, almost new) De'Longhi EC820.B in exchange for your Alex Duetto Mk IV. I know that you have removed the cover from the Duetto and drooled over the internals but I am willing to over look this fact. As a token of sincerity and good will on my part, I am willing to deliver my De'Longhi to your home address and collect my new Duetto in person ( I can be with you first thing in the morning). I know you are probably familiar with the phrase 'if an offer looks too good to be true, it probably is'.. but, I can assure you that on this occasion my offer is a truly fantastic one for you.

Please PM me your home address so that I can make arrangements with you to complete the hand over&#8230;. I know,&#8230; you probably won't be able to sleep tonight with the excitement that you will shortly be the owner of a new (almost) De'Longhi EC820.B. I can fully understand you anticipation&#8230;&#8230;

PS Forgot to add, just to 'sweeten' the deal, I am willing to throw in the plastic tamper that came as standard with the De'Longhi&#8230;.. Now, with the tamper thrown in. I just know you won't be able to refuse my offer


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## Glenn

You had me until the tamper. I didn't want to double up


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## Beemer

Glen,

Is your supplied basket stamped with the capacity? My Duetto MkIII basket is unstamped and even Claudette could not confirm its capacity. To me it seems that is a triple, i.e 21gm

Ian


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## lookseehear

I would buy an EP HQ basket from coffee hit. They're good quality and you can choose double/triple. The standard baskets supplied with most machines are pretty basic.


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## Glenn

I've swapped out for the VST 15g & 20g ridgeless baskets

I would also guess at 21g without weighing as it looks larger than the VST which handles 19-21g


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## Beemer

Glenn,

I have read here that VST are the Dog's Bxxxoxks so I might just dump the stock baskets and spend that bit extra. That said, £1850 or so for a Duetto should surely have been factory shipped with the best basket/s available? (Not a dig a you Collette).

Ian


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## Glenn

Sadly most machine manufacturers provide basic baskets and substandard tampers.

The Izzo tamper was okay but not in the same league as my Reg Barber copper base tamper.

Basic baskets are fine but I happened to have some VST baskets already


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## Beemer

Glenn,

Yes I noticed that the Izzo tamper was a slack fit so I have to do the "tamps round the circumference" method, or a feather-light tamp then a slight tap on the rim method to dislodge the coffee on the upper wall before the final tamp. Also disconcerting is using this heavy tamper in the supplied single-shot basket. Is it, or is it not, bottoming on the basket shoulder! My solution is not to use the single basket at all.

Ian


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## coffeechap

Beemer said:


> Glenn,
> 
> I have read here that VST are the Dog's Bxxxoxks so I might just dump the stock baskets and spend that bit extra. That said, £1850 or so for a Duetto should surely have been factory shipped with the best basket/s available? (Not a dig a you Collette).
> 
> Ian


Second glen here, pretty much most manufacturers will only ship basic parts, that is why there is such demand for la marzocco and vst baskets, oh ps Colette is claudette....


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## reneb

So Glenn, now that you've been living with your duetto for a while, I thought it might be worth hearing your views on how much of a step up a machine like this is from your trusty classic, bearing in mind that (or a Silvia) is the machine many of us start out with. What are the key differences you've noticed in terms of shot quality and consistency etc? How do you find steaming? Also, have you used the PID much?


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## Glenn

I'm loving the Duetto. I haven't had enough of a chance to test all of its features yet, therefore a write-up may be a little premature.

However, I am loving the easy ability to change temperature and explore different milk steaming pressures as well.

I will be removing the no-burn steam arm tube this weekend as well. This will give me the ability to explore some of the 10mm female steam tips in the market.

Thanks to Luke (lookseehear) I have the 8mm Female to 10mm Male adaptor and a 4 x 0.9mm steam tip from Chris Coffee to explore these options.

The step from a Classic / Silvia or similar single boiler machine is huge. It's like driving a Ford Capri and then jumping into an Aston Martin.


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## Sticky

Now that you have removed the no burn tube, what is your verdict?

It has made the world of difference for me, I am also more confident with larger milk capacities.

I would be interested to hear about the different steam tips.


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## dgac

Thanks for that review - I am considering the upgrade to the MK IV so the comments were informative.


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## Prusev71

Glenn said:


> The review below is a summary of my thoughts and not intended to be a full in-depth analysis of each machine
> 
> Today I had the pleasure of spending a delightful 4 hours at Bella Barista, hosted by Claudette and her team.
> 
> The aim was to evaluate the R58 vs Alex Duetto Mk IV (aka new Alex Duetto III in the US) side-by-side and walk away with the winner.
> 
> I had previously narrowed my search to replace my home machine to either of these dual boiler espresso machines.
> 
> 
> 
> click to enlarge
> 
> Also on the bench was the ECM Heidelberg espresso machine (HX), which I used to dial in the grinder (the Eureka Mignon) and pull reference shots on, for a coffee that I was familiar with.
> 
> This machine was so forgiving and produced not only lovely espresso but some of the best milk I have steamed in a long time - a glossy paint finish which was perfect for latte art.
> 
> I would have happily parted with £1099 if I was in the market for this type of machine.
> 
> Of the 3 machines this had the best drip tray too, shallow and wide, with plenty of cup clearance and ample room to move cups around.
> 
> I initially pulled shots using the stock basket before switching to a 20g VST basket for the evaluation of the R58 and Alex Duetto Mk IV.
> 
> The same coffee, grinder, basket, portafilter, tamper and milk was used for all tests.
> 
> The Rocket R58 was up next. The first shot ran a little too fast, so a tweak to the grind was required, and the next shot was sublime. Easily one of the cleanest espresso's I had tasted this year. You could pick out the individual flavours and the aroma was more intense than on the ECM. With a rotary pump the Rocket R58 was also quieter than the ECM. There was no 'whine' as reported on earlier models and the pressure was pretty steady - no flickering of the manometer needles at all.
> 
> Both the Rocket R58 and the Alex Duetto Mk IV were set to the same service boiler temperature and held steady at 93c throughout the evaluation period.
> 
> Changing the settings using the external controls on the R58 was easy and the interface is fairly intuitive, but I wasn't a fan of the coiled cable connecting the control box to the chassis, cluttering up the workspace. If you intend to 'set and forget' then this is not an issue.
> 
> The Rocket R58 is a real looker and wins the beauty contest - but I wasn't judging beauty so tested the steam capability to see what I could achieve.
> 
> Better than expected is how I would describe the steaming on the R58. Noticeably more powerful than the ECM the steam through the standard 2 hole steam tip was consistent and handled different volumes of milk with ease. My second jug was the best from this session. I would have liked to spend more time adjusting steam boiler pressure to see how the different increments affect the milk. This however would be best achieved when I could focus on the one machine.
> 
> The shots and milk I enjoyed would have justified the £600 price difference between these machines.
> 
> After spending 20 minutes on the machine, tweaks and changes to the grind produced some lovely looking (and tasting) espressos and my wife was starting to feel the effects of the coffee.
> 
> We took a quick break and Claudette roasted some Tanzanian coffee on the Gene Café roaster. I was genuinely surprised at how little smoke there was. My wife was showing a lot of interest in the Gene Café roaster as well, which is encouraging! Although for the time being I'm quite happy to let the experts roast and discover the fruits of their labour.
> 
> After a pint of water later and a quick tour of the Towability factory next door it was time to evaluate the Alex Duetto Mk IV. I pulled a shot on the R58 then tried to replicate on the Duetto.
> 
> A minor tweak to the grind was required (again a fraction finer) and the resulting shot was excellent - with more crema and viscosity than on the R58.
> 
> I had to check this was no fluke and pulled several more in quick succession - each tasting the same - rich and silky smooth. I could have had another but needed to evaluate the steaming capability so set about preparing my milk jug. The Alex Duetto Mk IV steam is very dry. Plenty of power behind it and that's with the no-burn steam arm insert still in. I have been told by a couple of owners that I spoke to earlier this month that one of the first mods to make after getting to grips with the machine is to remove the tube - giving you even more steam power.
> 
> However, putting aside those thoughts I gave the steaming a shot. I hadn't expected such power and too many bubbles were created. Starting afresh I adjusted the angle and depth and turned the steam knob. Not as easy as the R58 but I'm glad that no 'radiator tap' retrofits have been made as some distributors in the US have done. This jug was pretty good and I could see what to do to make the next one even better. Several small adjustments later (this biggest change to me was steaming on the left instead of on the right like I'm used to) and I could produce lovely milk time after time. I still have a way to go but already notice an improvement on my previous technique.
> 
> So, the Alex Duetto Mk IV was producing nicer espresso than the R58 and milk every bit as nice as the ECM. Although I think the R58 has the edge in milk steaming (that is until I remove the no burn steam arm and evaluate again)
> 
> The R58 won on looks and had better cup clearance than the Duetto. However removal of the drip tray was not as smooth on the R58 compared to the Duetto (which also holds more water / liquid).
> 
> The rotary pump on the Alex Duetto Mk IV was even quieter than the R58. I hadn't anticipated the difference would be so tangible.
> 
> By this stage I had written out the cheque in my mind, and nearing the edge of my caffeine tolerance levels (I think I pushed them a little today) decided upon the Alex Duetto Mk IV as my new home espresso machine. After informing Claudette of my decision all that remained was to choose the box from the stock room and get the machine bench tested.
> 
> The bench testing process was very thorough and Bella Barista's techie Jordan ran me through the PID settings and set the defaults based on testing undertaken by their reviewer. The factory defaults are also provided for future reference.
> 
> After the great service provided of loading the machine into the car, carrying an awkwardly shaped 44kg+ box containing the machine and accessories up 3 flights of stairs by yourself isn't fun. But after mounting the feet and warming up the machine, pulling a shot was the best reward.


Dear Glenn, taking into account the date of your comparison review, I guess that R58 had been the first version. Have you taste so far R58 v2 (changed algorithm of PID giving SSR of brew boiler priority over that of S/HW boiler during heating plus cosmetic change of fixing the drip tray to the body with magnets) compared with its first version?

P.S. How are you sure that you have got to the set PID temperature before start the shot? Do you count on red light indicators? Or it is just enough to leave the machine to heat all internals for 30 min?


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## Mrboots2u

Glenn is away for a week now and not on the internet so don't hold your breath . Plus I'm not sure he has done side by side after his purchase


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## mrsimba

Prusev71 said:


> P.S. How are you sure that you have got to the set PID temperature before start the shot? Do you count on red light indicators? Or it is just enough to leave the machine to heat all internals for 30 min?


The PID displays the temp in 'real time' once you save & exit the settings on the controller. after 30 min the machine will be up to temp nicely


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## Prusev71

mrsimba said:


> The PID displays the temp in 'real time' once you save & exit the settings on the controller. after 30 min the machine will be up to temp nicely


BTW, Rocket Marketing Department doing their job pretty well - facebook page, etc. , while the guys from Izzo even had not created a Facebook page for Alex machines series. I suppose they think that being the Mercedes in the field of DB machines, there is no need for huge marketing efforts 

Markus has excellent - 19 % discount which makes me seriously considering to buy one:

http://m.stoll-espresso.de/item/363730

Only the huge weight of Alex stops me for now, because I cannot imagine how I will get it in my home when FedEx deliver the pallet, because I live at 6th floor. 

Also I could not imagine the how the descaling of the beast can be done and will ask Glen to share if he had already done it 2.5 years after the purchase.


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## bulletjie

I would love either of these two wonderful machines. I agree, Rocket has good marketing where as Izzo is relying on its reputation. Almost like Rolls Royce and Ferrari


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## Fevmeister

I think rockets marketing goes somewhat further than a Facebook page!


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## PeterF

I aspire to the Alex Duetto. Maybe next year??!!


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## Rhys

Fevmeister said:


> I think rockets marketing goes somewhat further than a Facebook page!


I doubt the phrase "Sky's the limit" comes into it..


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## Prusev71

Mrboots2u said:


> Glenn is away for a week now and not on the internet so don't hold your breath . Plus I'm not sure he has done side by side after his purchase


Thank you! Actually, there is no need to wait an answer from Glenn. I doubt that changes would have contribution to the espresso quality of v2. AD will stay my dream machine so far. Unfortunately, I have problems with waist and that is why not the price of 1950 €, but its 36 kg impedes me for buying. QM suggested by Dave really worth its money, but I do not like it's design and could live with Alex deficiencies compared to QM Verona cited by Dave.

Guys, I really cannot understand how is it possible the difference between Alex and R58 to be only 100 £? It must be at least 600 £ [sS chassis, much better (thicker) boilers, build quality]. In the US R58 with its 2700$ is 100 $ over the Alex price?!

Obviously, we live in the Times when the good marketing is very, very important for sales. So, we can congratulate Mr. Meo for his strategy. The next step would be to replace big R with his picture. ?

So, I am buying Brewtus for 1149 € and one day when I have no waist problems will buy Alex for sure!

Thank you very much for your support! It is very, very , very valuable to me!!!

P.S. Stay tuned for this weekend exhibition in Milan - new machine models are expected from Izzo, Rocket, etc.


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## amalgam786

Prusev71 said:


> P.S. Stay tuned for this weekend exhibition in Milan - new machine models are expected from Izzo, Rocket, etc.


where in Milan? any details for exhibition?


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## Prusev71

I do not know exactly. You can ask Google. ?


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## Prusev71

Hi Amalgam! Most probably you already had known where this exhibition has been hosted. The most important fact about it is that it is being organized once per two years and it is called Host Exhibition. This is the place where all manufacturers shows new models. I already saw couple of clips of new machines shown at Host Milan 2015 - Rocket R60, ECM DB 75, etc. So the next event will be held in 2017.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Prusev71 said:


> Hi Amalgam! Most probably you already had known where this exhibition has been hosted. The most important fact about it is that it is being organized once per two years and it is called Host Exhibition. This is the place where all manufacturers shows new models. I already saw couple of clips of new machines shown at Host Milan 2015 - Rocket R60, ECM DB 75, etc. So the next event will be held in 2017.


Also known as "Fiera Milano".


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## icom102

Have you any pictures of your set up?


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