# Micro foam with the DTP?



## radam87 (Sep 27, 2017)

Has anyone got any tips for achieving a good micro foam with the DTP? I'm just not quite getting it right?


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Little video I made a while back


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I froth the same way as Joey does. This person swirls the milk a different way but gives an idea of one way of controlling the amount of foam.






The foam tends to stiffen if you get the milk too hot - that's what I find anyway. That's what I generally do for my wife. It wont pour in the same way once it's in that state. She's inclined to say it's too cold if I don't.

John

-


----------



## radam87 (Sep 27, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


>


That's great. In keeping with the Sage thing but slightly off topic: did you keep that plastic piece in the portafilter?

Do you use the bottomless or spouted one most?


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

radam87 said:


> That's great. In keeping with the Sage thing but slightly off topic: did you keep that plastic piece in the portafilter?
> 
> Do you use the bottomless or spouted one most?


No I took the plastic piece out but kept hold of it for cleaning purposes. I only have a naked pf currently so as there's a little ridge left from when I cut the bottom out, the plastic sits nicely still. Otherwise when using a cleaning tab I get mess everywhere!


----------



## Beth71 (Jan 4, 2017)

For those of us who aren't so talented as @joey24dirt







I've found the Espro Toroid 2 pitcher has made steaming milk on the DTP a breeze for me. It's not cheap, but I don't regret spending the money. I have the smaller version (350ml) as I'm generally only steaming milk for flat whites for me, but I believe they do a 500ml version too.

http://espro.ca/toroid/


----------



## radam87 (Sep 27, 2017)

Beth71 said:


> For those of us who aren't so talented as @joey24dirt
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How much did you pay for yours please?


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Beth71 said:


> For those of us who aren't so talented as @joey24dirt
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ha thanks. As always though...... I never show off my fails


----------



## Beth71 (Jan 4, 2017)

radam87 said:


> How much did you pay for yours please?


 @radam87 £25 inc shipping. Amazon has them via a third-party seller - Bear & Bear. That's who I got mine from.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I keep the plastic part in the bottom of Sage portafilters. It helps keep the water hot when it goes through the coffee. A neat idea really. I wonder why they didn't extend it up the sides. It might help further 'cause the temperature there does have an effect on the shot - hotter the better in my view. Hence heated group heads on some machines.








On the other hand it might not help at all but I have noticed that if I preheat the portafilter via a "blank shot" the bottom hardly gains any heat. It does now though. I recently started preheating it and the mug I'm going to use via a pressurised basket. Previously I would only get a mug that looked like this if I made 2 mugs of coffee one after another. The first one would have less and paler crema.
















9.4gm in about 350ml out.

John

-


----------



## Mr Kirk (Oct 5, 2017)

My foam, I think, is too thick.

It stays on top of the milk and I find it hard to pour it out without too much foam and milk coming out and filling the cup too soon.

Any tips?


----------



## Beth71 (Jan 4, 2017)

It sounds like you're stretching the milk too much to me - in other words adding too much air at the start before moving the wand tip lower into the milk. I'm ready to stand corrected by someone more knowledgable than me though


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Beth71 said:


> It sounds like you're stretching the milk too much to me - in other words adding too much air at the start before moving the wand tip lower into the milk. I'm ready to stand corrected by someone more knowledgable than me though


Yeah stretching too long. Do you chill your jug and milk before starting to steam the milk? I pop mine in the fridge while I pull the shot then it's nice and cold, apparently it helps.

I usually add the air up until I start to feel the base of the jug start to warm and then sink the wand and get rolling


----------



## Mr Kirk (Oct 5, 2017)

The milk is chilled but not the jug.

First time I tried I don't think I got any air in before the milk got too hot.

Then next time I had the tip on the surface of the water and I got some air in it before it got too hot.

It seems to get hot really quickly to me.


----------



## Beth71 (Jan 4, 2017)

If you chill the jug first, as Joey says, it'll give you more time to work with the milk before it gets too hot.


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Mr Kirk said:


> The milk is chilled but not the jug.
> 
> First time I tried I don't think I got any air in before the milk got too hot.
> 
> ...


It depends on the size of the jug and how much milk also to how fast it heats up. As mentioned pop the jug in the fridge and see how it goes. Took me ages to get it anywhere near how it looks on YouTube haha


----------



## JaumeMarzo (Oct 6, 2017)

i like to watch your video as it gives me motivation to keep on trying!

so far my latte art consists of strange blobs only







or maybe something that resembles an octopus!!


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

> I keep the plastic part in the bottom of Sage portafilters. It helps keep the water hot when it goes through the coffee. A neat idea really. I wonder why they didn't extend it up the sides. It might help further 'cause the temperature there does have an effect on the shot - hotter the better in my view. Hence heated group heads on some machines.
> 
> On the other hand it might not help at all but I have noticed that if I preheat the portafilter via a "blank shot" the bottom hardly gains any heat. It does now though. I recently started preheating it and the mug I'm going to use via a pressurised basket. Previously I would only get a mug that looked like this if I made 2 mugs of coffee one after another. The first one would have less and paler crema.


Is the plastic part a pressurised widget? If so it's there to create extra pressure in the basket, not extra heat, this is needed for preground coffee if you use it as you can't 'dial in'.

Coffee gets acrid and burnt tasting beyond 97-98deg, and most prefer it around 95. Heated groups exist to manage temps in this range, not to make the group hotter.

Heating the PF is a good idea so long as you do it every time, the heat from the PF transfers to the dry puck and reduces the temperature difference between it and the incoming brew water, this is meant to result in a better extraction.

And are you extracting 350ml through the portafilter from 9g in? Each to their own but I can't imagine that being a nice coffee.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I made no mention of plastic in the pressurised baskets only in the portafilter. It's just a "lining" in the base of Sage portafilters that can be removed formed by what is probably a clip in teflon moulding.

Sage refer to the pressurised basket as dual wall. 2 at the base effectively, one with the usual perforations followed by one with a single hole so the flow has to run through both. The single hole restricts the flow rate and generates typical brew pressures when a shot is run. Gaggia do one as well but the single hole is in the centre of the basket so they also add a plastic bit that drops into the portafilter to disperse the pretty high pressure jet that comes out. Sage simply offset the hole so the portafilter disperses it.

Prior to buying and espresso machine I would generally drink americano from the usual sources when out and about or brewed other ways at home. I did with the sage for a while but it's more convenient to make what some call long blacks where shots get run into hot water which tends to preserve the crema. I tamp the coffee while the hot water is running into the mug = quicker. Might be a problem with some beans as the crema may be too bitter. Trying to fill that mug via the portafilter would take for ever.

I always do preheat the portafilter. If I didn't and as often happens and made more than one drink on the trot the taste of them would be very different. Just flushing brew water through an ordinary basket helps but I find that using one of the dual wall baskets is better. We used ordinary mugs initially and found that they took so much heat away that it was best to preheat them. Using the borosilicate ones some beans seem to benefit if they are left for 5min or so before drinking them but I still always preheat.

The BE has 3 brew temperature settings. I generally use the higher one which I think is 95C. Done for taste. Logic when that water hits the coffee it wont remain that hot for long even with a preheated protafilter. I feel it helps the plastic grouphead on the BE. It's good in that it doesn't take much heat away from the brew water but doesn't transfer any heat to the portafilter. Compared with the usual boiler arrangements convenience wise it's an asset really as it takes a lot less time to heat it all up - including the portafilter.

John

-


----------



## Gaz| (Nov 29, 2017)

Nice Art Joey! I am trying to get to this stage, and glad to see you using the sage as I am trying to get a hold of a DTP or BE to start out there.


----------



## Gaz| (Nov 29, 2017)

@joey24dirt , may I ask what jug you are using for your latte art with the DTP? I'm hopefully (touch wood) picking up a BE from someone local tomorrow after work, and want to order a jug, the one I've got at the moment is some standard throthing jug, with a big lip on the front.

cheers.


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Gaz| said:


> @joey24dirt , may I ask what jug you are using for your latte art with the DTP? I'm hopefully (touch wood) picking up a BE from someone local tomorrow after work, and want to order a jug, the one I've got at the moment is some standard throthing jug, with a big lip on the front.
> 
> cheers.


I'm using the rhinowares stealth black 12oz and 20oz pitchers, depending on what drink I'm making. I just got mine from amazon 

Congrats on to BE by the way. Hopefully you get it sorted


----------



## Gaz| (Nov 29, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> I'm using the rhinowares stealth black 12oz and 20oz pitchers, depending on what drink I'm making. I just got mine from amazon
> 
> Congrats on to BE by the way. Hopefully you get it sorted


thanks, will look into them along with knock out box and towel.

and cheers, hopefully they play ball, and all is as described when I get there tomorrow. Just got to find a decent grinder now, and slip it in without the Mrs seeing lol


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Gaz| said:


> thanks, will look into them along with knock out box and towel.
> 
> and cheers, hopefully they play ball, and all is as described when I get there tomorrow. Just got to find a decent grinder now, and slip it in without the Mrs seeing lol


Always tell her it's half of what it actually cost also haha. So you're planning on an additional grinder to go with the one in the BE?


----------



## Gaz| (Nov 29, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> Always tell her it's half of what it actually cost also haha. So you're planning on an additional grinder to go with the one in the BE?


Haha I already do that! I was thinking of this one being "it came with the machine" if I was fast enough lol.

well I was on the fence with this, as I originally thought stick it out with the built in grinder on the BE (part of me still might), but have read mixed response regarding how well it performs (mainly due to it being stepped and being onto of the boiler?). Cheers


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Gaz| said:


> Haha I already do that! I was thinking of this one being "it came with the machine" if I was fast enough lol.
> 
> well I was on the fence with this, as I originally thought stick it out with the built in grinder on the BE (part of me still might), but have read mixed response regarding how well it performs (mainly due to it being stepped and being onto of the boiler?). Cheers


I haven't used one so I can't comment. It was an option though when trying to get a work rig sorted out again, I just haven't found one cheap enough yet lol.


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

joey24dirt said:


> I'm using the rhinowares stealth black 12oz and 20oz pitchers, depending on what drink I'm making. I just got mine from amazon
> 
> Congrats on to BE by the way. Hopefully you get it sorted


I do have a Rhinowares green one (Teflon coated, I believe it's exactly like yours except the colour). I am nowhere your level in latte art!

Just proves a point that the jug isn't the most important thing.

Just for the record, I also use DTP. That's one of the attempts that looks better than my usual pours.


----------



## Gaz| (Nov 29, 2017)

PPapa said:


> I do have a Rhinowares green one (Teflon coated, I believe it's exactly like yours except the colour). I am nowhere your level in latte art!
> 
> Just proves a point that the jug isn't the most important thing.
> 
> Just for the record, I also use DTP. That's one of the attempts that looks better than my usual pours.


wow looks a lot better than I've tried so far (manual throthing though lol) can't wait to get going on the sage aswell lol


----------



## JaumeMarzo (Oct 6, 2017)

Looks great to me!







if you have the time i would like to see a video of you making one as i'm using the DTP too and am not getting results like yours.


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

JaumeMarzo said:


> Looks great to me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I added a vid to this thread for microfoam but don't know if you can see that well, unless you zoom in


----------

