# Sage barista express over pressure problem



## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

Hi, I am new to the forum and new to coffee machines!

I have just brought a new sage barista express machine and I am struggling to use it.

It continually over pressurises, so put the dual wall single shot in the portafilter and Selected one shot, ran some water through with out any coffee and it virtually goes to the top of the pressure gauge.

Any ideas why this would be?

Thanks,

Luke


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

I am not 100% familiar with these models but I think they work on resistance. So if the dose and coarseness of grind are correct then the pressure will be where it needs to be.

Running it without water is not an accurate test of pressure I think. If you are still getting high pressure and poor/slow extraction with coffee in try making your grind more coarse.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Get some tape, or a large sticker, place it over the pressure gauge so that it no longer distracts you.

Grind 18.0g into a cup/pot/dry milk jug. Shake it. Transfer carefully to the PF. Tap it a couple of times with the heel of your hand to get the bed fairly level & make sure the coffee is distributed evenly accross the depth & width of the basket.

Tamp to the depth of the metal band on the tamper.

Manually pull 54g into your cup (using your scales on the drip tray).

How long do you have to run the pump for?

How does it taste?

When you report back, we can think about the next step.


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

Hi, really appreciate the replies. I will do as you have suggest and report back.

Currently once I have pulled a single shot through the grinder, then go to pull a single shot it is only taking 16.5seconds,. Doesn't taste horrible.


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

Just to add, I'm also struggling to understand how I'm getting high pressure and quick extraction rates?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Luke17q said:


> Hi, really appreciate the replies. I will do as you have suggest and report back.
> 
> Currently once I have pulled a single shot through the grinder, then go to pull a single shot it is only taking 16.5seconds,. Doesn't taste horrible.


 How much are you getting in the cup in 17s?

Is it strong enough?

What's the dose (I use 11.0g)?


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Get some tape, or a large sticker, place it over the pressure gauge so that it no longer distracts you.


 Yep.

Get your in / out right. Judge it on how it tastes, not what the dial tells you. Once you have nailed a pull of say 18g in 40g out over 28 seconds that tastes good take the tape off and have a look at the dial. I think you will be a lot happier then.


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

I'm struggling to understand the measurement side of things.

So I have got the grind size setting to 12 the grind amount to to clicks away from less, even though the gauge is going above the espresso range I like the taste.

On a single shot it takes 16 secs and produces around 40ml.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Is this a new or 2nd hand?


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

Brand new


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Yep.
> 
> Get your in / out right. Judge it on how it tastes, not what the dial tells you. Once you have nailed a pull of say 18g in 40g out over 28 seconds that tastes good take the tape off and have a look at the dial. I think you will be a lot happier then.


 No matter what I do, I can only pull a single shot for 16secs?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

As others have said ignore the gauge, the dropped it on the later models for good reason. 
Follow the advice above. 
Your extraction rates are very fast, likely under-extracting the coffee.

What beans are you using?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Luke17q said:


> No matter what I do, I can only pull a single shot for 16secs?


 Grind finer, and use the manual settings.

FWIW I have a SBP and generally pull over 30-35 seconds.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Luke17q said:


> No matter what I do, I can only pull a single shot for 16secs?


 Are you using preground coffee?


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Are you using preground coffee?


 No beans, from my local coffee shop roasted a few days ago.


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

TomHughes said:


> Grind finer, and use the manual settings.
> 
> FWIW I have a SBP and generally pull over 30-35 seconds.


 When u say manual settings, what do you mean? Apologies for being thick!


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Ok, Weigh and grind 18g of coffee. Put it in to the non-pressurised double basket, tamp, on to the machine, press the manual button so you control the flow not the machine. Start a timer as soon as you start. Pull through either 40g of espresso if you can weigh whilst you are extracting with scales under the portafilter. If not extract 2 fluid oz in volume. If you do not have a marked container for now just work it out and mark up a cup of something. 2 Fluid oz in volume not 2 oz in weight of course!

If it comes out faster than 28 seconds adjust your grind finer, if it is slower then make it more coarse.

Keep going until you get there or there abouts either the 2floz in 28seconds or 40g in 28 seconds. Then taste it and start to tweak.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Luke17q said:


> I'm struggling to understand the measurement side of things.
> 
> So I have got the grind size setting to 12 the grind amount to to clicks away from less, even though the gauge is going above the espresso range I like the taste.
> 
> On a single shot it takes 16 secs and produces around 40ml.


 Measure the weight of the ground coffee that you put in the portafilter to 0.1g (11.0g for a single, 18.0g for a double).

Measure the weight of the espresso as it lands in the cup, by putting your scales on the drip tray under the cup.

Grind setting of "12" is not a standard measurement that means anything to anyone else. Sounds like you have lots of scope to grind fiiner if your shot takes 16s.

ml is no good, parallax error will make it difficult to read, crema will hide the meniscus, you vessel isn't likely to be accurately lined anyway, but 40g of espresso is always 40g of espresso (using the same scales).


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

From the user instructions for manual dosing -

Manual Shot Volume - Press and hold the 1 CUP or 2 CUP button. The extraction will enter low pressure pre-infusion until the button is released. When the 1 CUP or 2 CUP button is released, extraction will continue at full pressure. Press the 1 CUP or 2 CUP button again once the desired volume of espresso has been extracted.

Use the single wall basket not the double wall with fresh ground coffee.


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

Ok will try, thanks very much. I have just pulled a double shot that took 27seconds on the dual wall. Pressure not right ( but I think as everyone said I am getting hung up on the pressure) just don't want to be using something that could be broken.

will report back.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Luke17q said:


> Ok will try, thanks very much. I have just pulled a double shot that took 27seconds on the dual wall. Pressure not right ( but I think as everyone said I am getting hung up on the pressure) just don't want to be using something that could be broken.
> 
> will report back.


 Do not use the double wall pressurised basket.

That is for the coarse preground stuff.


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

Ok will try no pressurised. Thanks again


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Luke17q said:


> Ok will try no pressurised. Thanks again


 Do not be alarmed if your results then become wildly out again. You just have to work until it is correct. This is the process known as dialling in.


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

Right, so I have changed to non pressurised basket (single) and have played around with the grind size and manual setting. But the coffee tastes bitter now compared to pressurised one?


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Luke17q said:


> Right, so I have changed to non pressurised basket (single) and have played around with the grind size and manual setting. But the coffee tastes bitter now compared to pressurised one?


 Coffee weight in and out over what time?


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

18g in over 16seconds


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

18g in a single basket!?!?

Surprised you got it to fit.

What weight out?


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

Oh sorry, so I measured 18g off coffee out and put it into the grinder, but haven't got a scale small enough that fits under to measure what comes out. Do you mean the weight once ground?


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

I'm a prat! So 18g in a single won't go will it.

what amount of grams do you recommend for a single basket?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Luke17q said:


> I'm a prat! So 18g in a single won't go will it.
> 
> what amount of grams do you recommend for a single basket?


 10g or 11g (one or the other, start with 11g).


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Ok so to get a (very) basic idea of how to brew espresso we often talk about a ratio.

The ratio is in reference to the dry coffee in ie the coffee that is in your basket when you begin to brew and the amount of liquid espresso you get out.

So 1:2.

1 is 18g of ground coffee IN and 2 is 36g of liquid coffee OUT.

In order to find the weight of coffee out people often put a scale on the drip tray, tare the scale to 0 then start the machine. They stop the extraction when they get the correct amount of coffee, in the example we are talking about 36g.

As you do not have a set of scales, I would advise you to go by volume. This is not perfect but it will get you started. If you have espresso shot glasses they often have fluid oz marked on them. Just do you 18g in and try and get 2 fl oz out. If you don't have them then find a container you can out a mark on at 2floz. So use a measuring jug to get 2 floz of water, pour it in a container and mark the line. Extract your espresso in to this.

So your routine would be as follows.



Start with an empty grinder.


Place in 18g of beans


Grind in to the DOUBLE non pressurised basket


Tamp


Place on the machine


Press to brew manually


Start timer immediately


Stop extraction at your 2floz mark


Stop timer.


If it is at 28 seconds or so then you are roughly where you need to be. Any faster then keep all other variable the same just make the grind slightly finer. If it is over 28 seconds then all variables the same just make it coarser.

Keep repeating until you get to the right time for your 2oz volume.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Ok so if you want to brew singles, do 11g as suggested by MWJB and mark you container up for 1floz.

If you find it tough to measure 1 floz to mark up a container you can weigh out 28g of water in to a vessel and mark this as 1 floz.


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

So I just did 11g and pressed one shot to let the machine do it ( instead of manual) and it ran for 22 seconds but it's at the top of the pressure gauge, and tastes disgusting . I know you say not to look at the gauge, but when I was researching the product before I bought it, they said 9 bar is the optimum, and i am no where near.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Luke17q said:


> So I just did 11g and pressed one shot to let the machine do it ( instead of manual) and it ran for 22 seconds but it's at the top of the pressure gauge, and tastes disgusting . I know you say not to look at the gauge, but when I was researching the product before I bought it, they said 9 bar is the optimum, and i am no where near.


 How much did you get out?

In what way was it disgusting?

There is no right pressure. There is only:

Grind setting.

Weight in (grounds)

Weigh out (espresso in cup)

Time the pump runs for.

Taste evaluation (weak/sharp/sour/balanced).

The machine doesn't have to drink the coffee, it can't evaluate taste, so don't let it make the coffee. You make the coffee by controlling the machine.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Luke17q said:


> So I just did 11g and pressed one shot to let the machine do it ( instead of manual) and it ran for 22 seconds but it's at the top of the pressure gauge, and tastes disgusting . I know you say not to look at the gauge, but when I was researching the product before I bought it, they said 9 bar is the optimum, and i am no where near.


 The problem is if you let the machine send the water through, we do not know what volume you are getting out so the espresso ratio 1:2 could be totally out.

Even if by some miracle you were hitting a perfect ratio, 22 seconds is still quick and I wouldn't think it would be decent.

It is really tough for us to help if you are not happy to follow the advice we are offering.


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

Ok, I do appreciate your help. Will measure a single shot and report back


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

How many seconds should I let it pre infuse for?


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

So single at 11g in and 1floz out was 18 seconds


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Ok now we are getting somewhere!

Grinder finer and repeat


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

I am pressing the single shot button and holding for 7 seconds then letting go and waiting for 1floz then pressing to stop. Is this correct.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Luke17q said:


> I am pressing the single shot button and holding for 7 seconds then letting go and waiting for 1floz then pressing to stop. Is this correct.


 If you let it get to 1fl oz (whatever that is), then you stop the pump, don't you end up with more than 1fl.oz?


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

MWJB said:


> If you let it get to 1fl oz (whatever that is), then you stop the pump, don't you end up with more than 1fl.oz?


 I know, I know. Volume isn't perfect but it'll get ball park whilst he doesn't have suitable brew scales.


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

So I am pressing the button and holding for 7seconds to pre infuse and nothing comes out then let go and wait to get the 1floz then press again to stop. Is this correct? Thanks


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> I know, I know. Volume isn't perfect but it'll get ball park whilst he doesn't have suitable brew scales.


 But resolution is so poor, it's either 1 or 2....likely somewhere in between.

To be honest, whilst we're on the coarse/fast side, I'd still aim for 2fl.oz even with 11g dose.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Maybe hold for 3-4 for the pre infuse but I really wouldn't get too hung up.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Luke17q said:


> So I am pressing the button and holding for 7seconds to pre infuse and nothing comes out then let go and wait to get the 1floz then press again to stop. Is this correct? Thanks


 It's correct if you're getting 1 fl oz whilst aiming for 1 fl oz, but it sounds like you will be getting more than that?

Show s a pic of the glass with the shot in it.

It's important because the amount you get out relates directly to extraction & flavour balance.

11g in & 1fl oz out in 22s will likely be awful. 2 fl oz out in 25s might be weak but tasty.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

MWJB said:


> But resolution is so poor, it's either 1 or 2....likely somewhere in between.
> 
> To be honest, whilst we're on the coarse/fast side, I'd still aim for 2fl.oz even with 11g dose.


 It is. If he weighs out water as suggested to 28g then the volume will be spot on. Stopping bang on that is another matter of course but either way it is just a compromise. I would obviously advocate the purchase of scales.


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

Right. Will start agin tomorrow as I have got through a whole bag of beans.

The kitchen looks like a bomb site. I will report back again tomorrow.

thanks for all the input.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Luke17q said:


> Right. Will start agin tomorrow as I have got through a whole bag of beans.
> 
> The kitchen looks like a bomb site. I will report back again tomorrow.
> 
> thanks for all the input.


 Make a coffee, make a note of what you did, what you got. Post it here, then walk away from the machine for a while. Think over the last shot & what might be needed?

If you get into a frenzy, then you're going to get frustrated, waste coffee & not learn much.


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## Luke17q (Apr 11, 2020)

Appreciate that, what I don't get is that when I used a pressurised basket I managed to get a really nice taste, will I be able to replicate the same taste through the non pressurised one that I am currently trying.

As currently I am on 11g for single non pressurised shot grind size 7 and 1floz after 22 seconds. But I can't replicate the taste.

what type of scales would you guys recommend?


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

Size 8 or 7 was what I used to find acceptable for most dark/medium fresh roasts when I used the BE grinder, going finer as the beans became weeks older. FWIW, I use 20g in the non-pressurised double basket (never bothered with singles) and tamp to the top of the line on the BE tamper flush with top of the portafilter.


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