# Problems with pressure



## jason Smith (Jan 29, 2020)

Hi All,

Bought a Sage Barista Express a few days ago after years with a DeLonghi auto machine and am having a few problems. I've purchased fresh beans, am following tamping to the letter of the official video and yet the coffee shot is still not good. Interestingly, the pressure guage starts the first 10-15 seconds in the correct place and then spins all the way clockwise and stays there (suggesting over extraction). I've adjusted the gring level from 6 to 2 (one step at a time) and still get exactly the same results! The flow itself is slower than it should be and takes around 25 seconds. I am using the single shot, single walled baskets. I've sent a video to Sage customer services and they haven't got back to me yet. Anyone else seen this issue?


----------



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Personally I'd stop using the pressure gauge. 
go on shot time and weight.

How long does it take in seconds to see the first few drops of espresso? 
How much are you putting in the basket? 
How much in weight are you getting out over what time?

What is the roast level of the bean you're using?

You say flow is slower than it should be? How do you know this? 25 seconds seems more than reasonable


----------



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Also each time you're changing the grind are you purging through at least 5-10g of beans? Otherwise you'll end up chasing your tail.


----------



## Scwheeler (Jan 13, 2020)

Sorry for slight threadjack. Tom - While practicing dialling in, I've been just loading 19g so it is empty when when I move steps on grinder otherwise I was wasting so much coffee. Any downside to this method?


----------



## Wgl2019 (Dec 1, 2019)

Forget the chaff.... What does the coffee taste like?

Have you tried using the double basket? It's more forgiving and should allow greater control.

So long as the pressure gauge isn't way over I would not worry, the Sage recommended range seems to be on the low side.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

If the gauge is going that high during infusion your grinding too fine.  That makes a change as usually people aren't grinding fine enough. may have machine problems or bad beans.

 Tom hasn't got a gauge and it does have it's uses. In an ideal world the gauge shouldn't go past the grey sector. The lines after that get thinner. Some way into that is ok too. In some ways it good to see where it goes when the machine has choked and can't force any water through at all. It's best to stop a bit short of that with coffee flow of course.

The dashes in the infusion area are a decent indication of where the pressure should go initially but higher is ok. Sages comments about the needle going to 12 o'clock max for a perfect shot are very misleading. It may work out but higher is likely to be more usual. Lower may even be.

Most of this is covered in the manual. Manual use isn't really if some one weighs shots out. The machine measures volume so if that is limiting output program it for more. Press the button to start and again to stop. It will hold a shot weight rather well though providing the pressure gauge doesn't go too high. The difference between ok and too high doesn't move the needle much. The espresso sector should hold a shot weight as well as the machine can.

The machine benefits from preheating certain parts. People wont be keen on the way I did that. If for instance some one is making milk drinks steam that first and then pull shots as soon as the machine allows. If espresso or americano run steam briefly before pulling the shot. I prefer a shot through an empty dual wall filter basket.

Dose of grinds - simple - get an idea what it should be by using the razor tool or at least use it as a gauge to check your fill height. In use dose can be higher or lower than that. Maybe 2g less on the double without finishing up with a soggy puck. More is a bit trickier. Might be 1g. What has proved to be popular on the BE is a slow increase. At some point the used puck sticks to the shower screen *1 or 2/10 g* more stops that from happening. Jump up too much and this point will be missed. This mostly relates to people who want to maximise the strength of a drink. Increase further and a significant coarser grind is needed and there isn't enough room for the grinds to expand. If the drink suites with an overloaded basket ok but without getting it right first people have no idea what they are actually doing. Even a particular beans density can need a dose change.

The other aspect is using a stepped grinder. Change settings one step at a time and don't jump all over the place. It's best to start too coarse and work down. If there is a need to go coarser go too coarse and then finer. Not an unusual feature of grinders. Stepped versus stepless grinders have their interesting aspects that I wont go into other than at least with stepped it is easy to go back to a previous setting. Tuning can be varied a bit via changing the dose of grinds - less in = more out at any grinder setting. More in = less out and slight overloading may suite.

The other variable is time. There is a significant difference in output between 25 and 30sec shots and times longer or shorter might give a better taste.

The other variable is the ratio of grams of grinds in and grams of shots out. Usually as many people weigh shots out that is fixed so time varies by some limits. It's a bit difficult to make grinds preparation dead constant. Many sources say the ratio must be 2 or people are double dammed and will produce crap. Looked at this way Sage's BE manual suggest slightly over 3 for the double and double dammed if you don't meet their spec - pressure gauge as well. A commercial double basket holds 14g and a double is 60g. A light double holds 12g but might also be used for a single, 30g. In practice with fresh roasted something from less than 2 to 3 or bit more is most likely to work out. Usually over 2.

In short there are a lot of variables to look at before some one is likely to find their ideal drink and they may even start off with a bean that they will never like what ever they do with it. More usually some variation will deliver something that is acceptable. It all boils down to taste.

John

-


----------

