# New machine; lever?



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Thinking of getting a small machine - maybe a lever of some sort - for the office.

I've zero experience of this but looking for something that can produce a good espresso.

Not needing milk steaming and the like, so would a Caravel, for example, do the business?

A bit of advice would be much appreciated! Probably going to pair this with a Major for now but open to alternative suggestions for this too!


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The caravels are great little lever machines however the only set back is that they are tiny baskets, any of the open boiler machines should do the job. Give dfk a tickle for a caravel


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@Jon

The Caravel.....a few on here have experienced them so can comment. I am one of those. If you are in a position to HAVE to use on regularly, then you will soon master it and be producing really good quality shots. It is true as Dave points out, that on the whole you are producing smaller shots. I think the basket I Have in mine takes 12 gms but I will have to check. The upside of this is being smaller, you can drink more!

These are called open boiler so in effect as I am sure you know, a boiler sits on top of a kettle type element. The routine I use and others will agree or not, is to switch it on and either sit and let the small group heat up, or force water through. They have a thermostat on the back but no electronics so you do not really know what the temp is. The answer is to open the boiler lid and insert a temp probe. I used wait until it cycled to about 97/98, switch it off, prepare the shot and pull it. I found that 92/93 tasted fine to me.

With these being vintage they have a certain Heath Robinson appeal but in the right hands they are deadly!

It is just a question of playing around with grind. Raise the lever to fill the cylinder. I often give it 15 to 20 seconds pre infusion then draw the lever down. Since it is not spring assisted then it is you versus machine and you can learn a lot through the simple draw down......ie to fast too slow. You want resistance but not so you feel like you are in a weight training session!


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks for the input guys will reply fully later when not wrestling a wiggly 11 month old baby.


----------



## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Howabout a La Peppina? A little spring lever machine - there was one on fleabay not so long ago so they do pop up.


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Right. Been thinking about this. Thanks again both for input. More thought needed I think.


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Gaggia Achilles,if you can find one


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm now wondering whether the slightly non-creative, forum favourite, Gaggia Classic may be a simpler in-office choice... I just think it'd be nice to have an old lever. Something characterful and different.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Jon said:


> I'm now wondering whether the slightly non-creative, forum favourite, Gaggia Classic may be a simpler in-office choice... I just think it'd be nice to have an old lever. Something characterful and different.


But why would you not want an old lever. What does a Classic offer you? When you own a half decent car and want something for the weekend, you do not buy a Fiesta!


----------



## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

If I was an office worker I'd love a funky lever machine.


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

I don't want my romantic notions to get in the way of a good espresso in a timely fashion!


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The answer is to do a side by side. I am suggesting, that the Caravel will absolutely muller anything the Classic can produce when in the right hands


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

If you are really giving this consideration, I will send you my Caravel to try out. I will pay to send it down, you pay, insured, to send it back


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

That's very, very kind.

But I'm thinking what's the priority here; quality or simplicity. Or what's the ideal balance!

I think I need to ponder my choices before I put you or anyone else to any trouble - beyond sharing an opinion or two that is. Thanks though!


----------



## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Jon said:


> That's very, very kind.
> 
> But I'm thinking what's the priority here; quality or simplicity. Or what's the ideal balance!
> 
> I think I need to ponder my choices before I put you or anyone else to any trouble - beyond sharing an opinion or two that is. Thanks though!


A lever offers both quality and simplicity. My La Pavoni is basically a sealed kettle with a grouphead bolted on. It's quiet, simple and makes lovely coffee. It's also has a smaller footprint than a Classic and uses less coffee (13g or 14g depending on roast). You don't want a vibe pump rattling away in an office.


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Are you expecting others to use it- or purely for you? That will likely impact on the decision-making you don't want to end up running a 6 hour training session!


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Missy said:


> Are you expecting others to use it- or purely for you? That will likely impact on the decision-making you don't want to end up running a 6 hour training session!


I'm secretly hoping that everyone else will be happy with the brewed coffee from the behmor.


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Get a lever then

... You'll end up in a queue for anything else. Only the brave would try a lever in an office blind!


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> When you own a half decent car and want something for the weekend, you do not buy a Fiesta!


depends on how good you are at having fun .... There is more to life than driving to country casuals


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

h1udd said:


> depends on how good you are at having fun .... There is more to life than driving to country casuals


Looks like a beast.


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Right. So on further consideration I'm tending towards a la pav. The thinking now is I'll want to make one espresso probably most the time but having the option to get steamy with my milk is one worth having... Should I consider any other machines?


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

I also have a microcasa a leva ..... Far more attractive than the la pav, and spring assisted, so more consistent. But, I prefer a full manual lever, sometimes it's nice to have more control over the pressure, some of the lighter roasts I prefer to grind slightly coarser than I would for a 9bar pull and go for a soft 6bar pull .... And some darker roasts benefit from grinding too fine and having to wrench that lever down ending up with a cup and half of crema

i also have a 1970's microcimbali .... Spring assisted and short shots ... Makes an awesom ristretto but often you need to double cock it .... Kind of fun though

prefer the la pav of all of them now ... On my 3rd one .. 1 professional and 2 europiccolas ... I prefer the smalker machine as I only ever use it for my self


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

h1udd said:


> I also have a microcasa a leva ..... Far more attractive than the la pav, and spring assisted, so more consistent. But, I prefer a full manual lever, sometimes it's nice to have more control over the pressure, some of the lighter roasts I prefer to grind slightly coarser than I would for a 9bar pull and go for a soft 6bar pull .... And some darker roasts benefit from grinding too fine and having to wrench that lever down ending up with a cup and half of crema
> 
> i also have a 1970's microcimbali .... Spring assisted and short shots ... Makes an awesom ristretto but often you need to double cock it .... Kind of fun though
> 
> prefer the la pav of all of them now ... On my 3rd one .. 1 professional and 2 europiccolas ... I prefer the smalker machine as I only ever use it for my self


So shoot for a la pav ya think? Or should I just go all out and buy something ludicrous.


----------



## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Jon said:


> So shoot for a la pav ya think? Or should I just go all out and buy something ludicrous.


L1P seems logical?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

jlarkin said:


> L1P seems logical?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Tempted apart from the cost.


----------



## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

I've just bought a vintage Europiccola and it makes fantastic espresso, actually can't believe how, A) easy is to use after reading all of the stuff on the internet about them being 'difficult' to get the hang of and, B) I'm making the most consistent coffee I've ever made in a machine.

For ref I've had a Gaggia Classic, an Expobar DB, an Aeropress, V60 and Mochapot, The La Pav is the best of the lot IMO.


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks.

So what La Pav is good? I hear the pre-millennium is better than later ones, no?


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

I would go for the la pav. Second hand they hold their money, so if you don't get along with it, or want to downgrade to an L1 (







) it's easy enough to do without loosing money.

i bought my first as a "teach my self how to repair stuff" project and fell in love with them ..... If it's only me drinking coffee I use the la pav ... It makes better tasting coffee AND more fun coffee than my hx that I power up for guests and my wife at the weekend or for tasting a new bean as its s lot more consistant for back to back shots

the Elektra I use if I have "a" friend or my parents coming over just for the theatre of using s stunning machine and I mostly just look at the microcimbali for fear of the boiler rotting through if I add water









definately get a la pav though, it will teach you all about how temperature and pressure affects your shot .... And the emense satisfaction you get from nearing a god shot


----------



## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Watch out for tin worm if you get one off fleabay/glumtree as they tend to rot in the tray. A lot of pics don't show this, or show them with the plastic tray in. As for pre/post millennium, I couldn't comment but mines ok.


----------



## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

Jon said:


> Thanks.
> 
> So what La Pav is good? I hear the pre-millennium is better than later ones, no?


Mine is circa 1978 I believe and is in near mint condition, I bought it from Coffeechap (Dave) who is very knowledgeable about them so I would suggest that you get in touch with him if you want to buy one and I sure he'll sort you out with something suitable, as to which one to buy consensus seems to be pre-millennium down to the brass sleeve in the group head but I'm no expert.

Tony


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks. @coffeechap do you have anything suitable please?


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

My current is a 1995 ... Just before they upped the basket size and starting using nylon and plastic ..... The worst one I had was a 2001 it just didn't taste the same or feel the same and the liner split twice on me .... Definately go pre millennium

the 80,s modules don't have a pressure stat and you have to manually turn on and off the extra 300w element to make steam

they are a lot of fun ... BUT if you are like me and forget to turn things off you might run it dry as it boils it's water off ... Almost did this with my microcimbali but caught it in time.

i would love an older one 1963-1979 ... But don't trust me with no pressure star


----------



## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

h1udd said:


> My current is a 1995 ... Just before they upped the basket size and starting using nylon and plastic ..... The worst one I had was a 2001 it just didn't taste the same or feel the same and the liner split twice on me .... Definately go pre millennium
> 
> the 80,s modules don't have a pressure stat and you have to manually turn on and off the extra 300w element to make steam
> 
> ...


Aye I nearly boiled mine dry last week when I thought I had switched it off and had in fact turned on the high power switch, steam city

BTW, don't know about anyone else but my machine does fantastic milk steaming.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

a little different?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mini-gaggia-lever-espresso-machine-/111947812319?hash=item1a109c0ddf:g:5jsAAOSwqYBWpiSc


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Interesting; don't think I've seen one before.


----------



## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Jon - if you can try before you buy then I would go for it. Nothing to do with quality of machine/shot - more to do with practicality of using espresso machine at work.

I had a Classic in my office and found that I hardly ever got round to making a coffee. Even worse was when a colleague (or two) decided that they fancied one as well. Much faff later I would be drinking an espresso that I would inevitably be disappointed in compared to what I produced at home.

End result - I passed the Classic on and bought a Behmor (which I think you already have). Use it everyday at work with a Feldgrind. Occasionally throw in a cheeky aeropress or sowden for a change.

I'm not saying that you will be the same - but good to have a think about it.

Lastly - one point regarding some of the vintage machines out there - best check and make sure that they are compliant with office regs, i.e. PAT, moulded plug, hot surfaces etc. If your work is anything like my old mob then the H&S reps eyes come out on stalks at the thought of office coffee machines.


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

NickdeBug said:


> Jon - if you can try before you buy then I would go for it. Nothing to do with quality of machine/shot - more to do with practicality of using espresso machine at work.
> 
> I had a Classic in my office and found that I hardly ever got round to making a coffee. Even worse was when a colleague (or two) decided that they fancied one as well. Much faff later I would be drinking an espresso that I would inevitably be disappointed in compared to what I produced at home.
> 
> ...


Thanks. That's a fair consideration about getting the time to make one! Today I craved an espresso all day. If Colonna were selling their pods I'd get a Nespresso - but they're not!

Maybe I should wait.

H+S will be ok.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Jon said:


> Thanks. That's a fair consideration about getting the time to make one! Today I craved an espresso all day. If Colonna were selling their pods I'd get a Nespresso - but they're not!
> 
> Maybe I should wait.
> 
> H+S will be ok.


Buy Nespresso then you can buy pods that you fill yourself.....the best of both worlds.....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-x-Refillable-Reusable-Capsules-Pods-For-Nespresso-Coffee-Machines-/131744836276?hash=item1eac9aaab4:g:xC0AAOSwZ8ZW2xY6


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

dfk41 said:


> Buy Nespresso then you can buy pods that you fill yourself.....the best of both worlds.....
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-x-Refillable-Reusable-Capsules-Pods-For-Nespresso-Coffee-Machines-/131744836276?hash=item1eac9aaab4:g:xC0AAOSwZ8ZW2xY6


But don't you need some magic formula or special grinder or something. Or a vacuum packer. I can't believe mine would taste like Colonna's.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Buy a WilfA for work. Grind, fill the pod, press the button whenever you feel the need


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

dfk41 said:


> Buy a WilfA for work. Grind, fill the pod, press the button whenever you feel the need


Surely there's more magic to it? I assumed they had a super consistent grinder producing a very uniform grind size?


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

dfk41 said:


> Buy Nespresso then you can buy pods that you fill yourself.....the best of both worlds.....
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-x-Refillable-Reusable-Capsules-Pods-For-Nespresso-Coffee-Machines-/131744836276?hash=item1eac9aaab4:g:xC0AAOSwZ8ZW2xY6


"Creates a foam layer on your coffee"

Is that what we're looking for?!


----------

