# sage smart grinder pro, upper burr settings



## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

I'm currently using a sage grinder pro for my espressos. I was wanting to ask if we should be messing around with outer burr setting as I've seen a few people say we shouldn't and that they only should be changed if the burrs are starting to wear out.

I messed around a bit with the settings

outer burr - 3

knob adjustment - 2

and my espresso extraction time 20s

achieved bean:coffee ratio 1:2.5

Somehow it just doesn't feel right for me. any tips or comments on it?

but I'm also afraid to adjust outer burr more in case I cant adjust it anymore when it wears out, is that a concern at all?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Can you hear the tinkling of metal on metal contact when running the grinder with no beans? If not, you're good.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@TheHToad .

I don't know what machine your using with SGP your experience etc ,you are the third person recently having problems using a SGP on here .

I beginning to feels I was lucky with mine ..

I use mine 5 months from new no shims etc with Decaf ( normally requires a finer grind) still on upper burr setting 6 and never been below grinder setting 4 ..

I used it with a sage oracle and then Profitec 700 with a Dualit expressivo thing in between.

Ill ask the normal questions

Are you using freshly roasted beans firstly ?

Are you preparing everything with a proper tamp and preparation..

how old Is your SGP ?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Remember, without calibrating to zero, these numbers don't mean a whole lot as they're pretty arbitrary, is '4' 4mm, 40thou, 400microns, or French hens?

1:2.5 in 20s might be OK if it tastes OK. If it's sour go finer.

Other than shots running a little quick, the only problem so far identified is 'number worry'.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@MWJB .. Yes I did that on my Zenith.. never did it on my SGP I just followed the instructions started on no 8 on the lcd and worked from there . I don't know how the burrs are calibrated to the numbers on the LCD

can conical burrs be zeroed as flats ?

If they can the writer of the thread could try to zero his machine on the original burr setting 6 as they come out of the factory.. and see how much extra he can get finer after getting to one .

The only problem is if zero/ touching is a long way off 1 the LCD become useless unless it goes to minus ..he has no way of working out where he is unless he marks the machine and knob..

If it a new machine I wouldn't want to do that .

The advise from Sage/Breville was to only move the upper burr for wear ..

If it is ok to Zero conical burrs without damage whilst running I would try on mine .


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Initially, I would see if I could get tasty shots at 1:2.5 to 1:3 at 20s+ & ignore the LCD & numbers.

Yes, both types of burrs are zeroed when the burrs touch & whine. But by this time you may be too fine anyway. I'm not a believer in 'choke the machine & work back', I prefer to brew at coarsest setting that gives a good extraction. I'm mainly saying, don't worry about the numbers on the grinder being too fine unless you hear the burrs touching, even then if you do hear it occasionally when adjusting (not grinding for days like that) you still won't damage them.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

You could check the SGP as I did see

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?46032-Sage-Smart-Grinder-Pro-Espresso-setting

The only thing I didn't mention there is the weight of grinds used in the basket - that matters as well. In fact certain sources would suggest using that to tweak the settings of grinders that have steps rather than continuous adjustment. It's a little more complicated than that comment might suggest.

Starting at 8 doesn't ring any bells with me other than on the Barista Express. My recollection is 15 on the SGP but could be completely wrong.

The last thing I would recommend on these grinders is starting fine and coarsening up even though it avoids running the grinder when making significant adjustments finer. A certain quantity of grinds gets packed into the grind chamber and needs to build up and once it has it stays there and is best left alone. The carry over to a new bean is very low after 2 shots, I'd say zero.







It's worth doing that just for reassurance.

I've long suspected that people who have problems tuning with them forget to waste some grinds each time an adjustment is made. Actually on Sage not that much needs to be wasted but it's standard practice on all usual grinders unless weighing beans in and virtually all comes out. That's not mentioned very often. Beans can be weighed in on an SGP as well but sticky ones may collect getting out of the grind chamber and mess that up. Otherwise expect +/- 0.1g to no error at all.

John

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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@ajohn

You might be right re 15 but on my machine 8 is my start point ..

Until the toad chap comes back we don't know what his setup is and are chatting amongst ourselves.

He has already moved his upper burr quite a lot finer .

If you are using one , haveyou had to do that yet .?

MWJB also made a good point re zero .. the op I think that what you call may have a machine that the LCD numbers don't match the grinder ..


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Nicknak said:


> @ajohn
> 
> You might be right re 15 but on my machine 8 is my start point ..
> 
> ...


Other than the initial bur adjustment I had no problems with mine at all. I sold it. My main reason was what happened when I weighed in my favourite bean, it's heavily coated with oil. All ok for about 20 odd shots then the exit from the grind chamber needed brushing out. This doesn't happen when it's used with the hopper loaded.







The other reason of course was upgraditus.

If he has adjusted it that far the numbers probably don't mean anything at all. I sometimes used mine at a setting of 15 to 12. Much less than 8, don't think so. All sorts of beans went through it but my main grinder was the one built into a BE at the time. The SGP was mostly used for guest beans.

John

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> Beans can be weighed in on an SGP as well but sticky ones may collect getting out of the grind chamber and mess that up. Otherwise expect +/- 0.1g to no error at all.
> 
> John
> 
> -


This sounds a little optimistic, you seemingly never get the same out as you put in. Most people don't have scales sensitive enough to determine +/-0.1g (what is this, 6/10 doses within 0.04g?). +/-0.2g would be good for any grinder & double doses.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MWJB said:


> This sounds a little optimistic, you seemingly never get the same out as you put in. Most people don't have scales sensitive enough to determine +/-0.1g (what is this, 6/10 doses within 0.04g?). +/-0.2g would be good for any grinder & double doses.


Buy one and do and then find out also the problems with certain beans.

John

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> Buy one and do and then find out also the problems with certain beans.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Save me £200 and measure 10x ~18.0g doses of beans in & out, no faffing, just in & then out.

Take charge of those troublesome beans, or stop buying them.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Nop. I checked in excess of 30 shots which is why I know it held that limit. It wont do this until it has settled down - permanent retention. The variation once that has happened could be down to broken beans on top of the burrs. Then stopped checking and later used my favourite bean in it that way. After somewhere around 20 shots it went haywire for the reason mentioned. I didn't use it with the same bean and hopper on. I'd just expect more but not problematic clumping than the BE gives. The grinds come out of the BE grind chamber tangentially which explains that.

I'm weighing those beans in with my mazzer mini at the moment and no longer checking what comes out but have concluded that I may not need the lens hood so if I drop that I'll start checking again. That's been ok for around 2kg of beans now but I do need to change the grinder settings from time to time. Something I didn't need to do with the same bean in the hopper on the Barista Express or when I used the SGP. On the BE from clean and settled I just needed to adjust the grind time to maintain the dose, it just got longer and longer and then hardly needed touching at all.







Leaves me with a feeling that the actual grind can be more stable when conical and flat are compared.

John

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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

I'm currently using the sage duo temp pro espresso machine. And some of my beans might be a bit old as I started off buying quite a bit to store without know better.

I have just tested it with some new beans following @Nicknak comments and ended up with 25 seconds before extraction even begins, when previously it would be around 8 seconds. So I guess the problem is with the beans then?

Also I pre-weigh my beans before use as I switch between normal and decaf beans on a daily bases.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@TheHToad

Yes of all the advice I have read on here and in my own experience fresh roasted beans make all the difference..

I store all of mine in Vacuum type canisters which work for me ..

I use my as a single dose , once all the gaps especially around the fan thing fill up you will get more consistent doses..

But you will get some of the old grind thru with the new . I normally run until empty, shake and tap and give it another few seconds ..

After reading some of the other posters on here I measured 19 in and got 19.5 out so you will get transfer from normal to decaf . Unless you clean it each time .. The stuff around the fan seems to stay put ..

It will really help others who have more experience than I help if you answer some of their questions.

Where are you now with your grinder settings , such as upper burr etc ???

Hope you sort it out and start enjoying it as you can get good coffee with your set up

All the best


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

I have yet to try make a second espresso with the fresh beans. I made a habit of not drinking more than 1 caffeinated drink per day. And I currently don't have any decaf beans fresh enough to test it out.

I plan to revert upper bur back to 6 and work from there, will see how it goes tomorrow.

Thanks for your advice.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@TheHToad

Just thought .... what baskets are you using ,What I read it comes with four, two pressurised and two not .

That will make a difference .... I would try to use the ones with loads of holes on the bottom of the basket (non pressurised )


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

@Nicknak

Yea, im using the non-pressurised ones, but i've been wondering if the pressurised ones might increase the extraction time for my old beans


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

I would persevere with the fresh stuff and the unpressurised filters..

Firstly you can get your grinder dialled in properly and the coffee in my opinion will taste better ..

I used some pressurised ones with a Dulait and supermarket coffee years ago and put the machine away..

When I was in between machines when the oracle broke I dug it out with the pressurised ones it was even more difficult to get anything tastey out, but the non ones with the right grind and tamp the dualit actually did ok .

Your machine is better and if you use stale stuff , the new stuff will start will get older.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@TheHToad

Just to be clear and you have likely read it on here elsewhere .. so apologise if you know this

Try and buy beans with a roast date on.. I get by from Redber at the moment ..

I start using them after about 4-5 days after roast date ..

I buy a kilo at a time but have about 4 doubles a day , so it's a lot easier for me to dial in .

As the coffee ages you do have to tweak the grind a bit finer .

Hope this helps


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

outer burr:6

Knob: 10

18g bean - 40g coffee

28 seconds extraction

quite happy with that, I know i've got wiggle room to adjust now

seems like the old beans was the problem


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@TheHToad ... hurray well done ..I bet they taste better as well..

I know the SGP is not the highest regarded grinder , but it is more than capable of doing espresso .

Once you get to know the machines better try for longer times , sometimes it will surprise you .

Good luck and well done .


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

FWIW I have the same grinder and my settings are nowhere near what has been spoken about.

My outer burr is on 2

Dial is on 11

Time 14.4 secs for an 18grm dose. I normally do a 1:3 ratio 18 in and 54 out with 85grms of steamed milk.

I then started on Cartados with 18 in, 45 out with around 45 milk. It was working well till I read the read.

Jumped in and changed the settings to what was previously stated 6 outer, 10 knob, 18grms with a 44grm extraction in 16secs, beat that!

So, I'm not going to fix it till its broke, but revert back to what was working for me first place. I was just a bit concerned that the burrs would wear quickly, but there is not metal on metal noise when grinding


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

My SGP when I received it had the outer burr set way too fine for some reason. I mentioned how I checked that and reset it via a link earlier on. Other than worn burrs there is no point in setting it finer than it needs to be. All that does is change the numbers that need to be set for a particular grind. Same if it's set coarser but at some point it wont grind fine enough.

The grinder in the barista express is very similar as far as burrs are concerned but just like the SGP it needs to settle down to give consistent weights with either the hopper on or when weighing in. Just sticking to weighing in which is how I mostly used the SGP the reason for this is simple. Compacted grounds in the grind chamber. They need to build up and compact. Once that has happened dose out for dose in is very consistent. Change beans and some consistency is usually lost for a couple of shots and there is a bit of taste carry over especially on the first shot after a change. The only exception to that was some vanilla flavoured beans. I reckon I could just about taste traces of that on the 4th shot after thank heavens they had gone. It has a very strong flavour though and I may have been imagining it.







No one here will ever get beans like that in the grinders again.

I check weighed a lot of shots for several weeks and then stopped as no point doing it any more. Then came the sticky bean problem. Ok for a while and then jammed up at the exit from the grind chamber. These beans are literally coated in oil. It's what I mostly drink so sold the grinder and now weigh the same bean into a mazzer mini. I don't check the weight out on that now either but getting what went in to come out does need more faffing about than certain video's suggest. I do have to put up with a bit of static though. it doesn't show in the grinds that come out, only on very light coatings in places inside the funnel. I brush those out too.

John

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