# Is there a trick to getting Jailbreak right?



## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I got some HasBean Jailbreak espresso blend with my Vario recently.

I just can't seem to get a good shot out of them. I mean, technically I get get a good shot but it just doesn't taste that good to me. I'm used to smooth, sweet, choclatey from other coffees. So far with the Jailbreak I get his kind of acrid, bold shot that I find a bit jarring. I know it says its supposed to be bold on the bag but I'm not sure I like it. Maybe that's it? Maybe I just don't like it. I can make quite a nice brew in my AeroPress with it but it's still got that slight acrid taste in there somewhere.

When I make a shot with some Mexican Altura from coffeebeanshop I get what I've learnt expect from freshly roasted coffee and it's lovely.

Nearly at the end of the bag now cos I've been using it with my AeroPress the last couple of days to get through it so it doesn't really matter. I'm just wondering.

If I was going to order from HasBean in future I'd probably want to avoid this particular one tbh.

Maybe it's just me? Any ideas?


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

A few people have said that about Jailbreak, as an espresso I don't really like it, I do find it works very well in milk based drinks as it cuts through the sweetness of the milk, for that purpose it's one of my favourite blends. It's a pretty light roast (as is most of Hasbeans) so you dont get some of the bolder flavours you get with darker roasts. People may have tips to get the best out of it, but I think it's just a fairly acquired taste to be honest.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I don't really drink milky drinks, I only tend to make them for the other half. Maybe I'll try one tomorrow just to see if it's any better.

Cheers


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## JamesG (Mar 29, 2012)

Have you tried lowering the dose and grinding slightly finer to compensate? This in theory should bring out more sweetness and less acidity.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Its shame you dont have a PID. From memory this was very temperature dependant, liking a long slow extraction and cutting a little short


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I'll give it a try.

Today I think I got a bit less that 18g in my PF (grinder must have retained some) as the coffee looked a little lower before I tamped so maybe I already tried this by accident. Could go lower still I suppose.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Try raising the brew water temperature a little, as follows:

- switching the steam button on for perhaps 15 seconds to raise the boiler water temperature a bit. It won't be perfect, because the group head temperature won't be increased, so....

- flush some of that hotter water through the group before pulling the shot. Only perhaps 2oz tho... no more or the boiler water will cool too much due to new water coming in.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I never did get around to checking the temp coming out of my Classic Mike. I have been tending to flush about 4oz before any shot and waiting for the light to come back on again to keep things consistent with how I've always done it as I've usually been happy with the shots that way. I'd have to be careful not to change 2 params at once or I won't know which is having an effect.

Maybe tomorrow will be a smaller dose finer grind and if that doesn't solve it then the day after will be revert back to 18g and try raising the temp. Then if that doesn't work I'll try both together. That'll probably exhaust my supply


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

If youre ever in Brum then go to 6/8Kafe they have it as the house blend and by all accounts the espresso goes down very well - compare it to yours


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

I always get reasonable results with jailbreak if i pull the shot above 70% brew ratio. Any lower and i find it too acidic.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Monkey_Devil said:


> I always get reasonable results with jailbreak if i pull the shot above 70% brew ratio. Any lower and i find it too acidic.


So 26g from 18


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

Yeah basically. That said i think I've gone to pull as much as 28g and still be satisfied enough to drink it. Always pulled in 25-30 seconds, slow and gloopy.

And you got my dose bang on


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Oh no! Another variable to try. At this rate I'll have to buy another bag to get through them all


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Did you season your burrs? I'm not sure if you need to season ceramic ones.

I'm still awaiting a decent shot using the super jolly due to seasoning related issues.

I'm seeing greater consistency with every shot but I can't go wasting my lovely Loayza.

Also, get a PID


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm saving for a Giotto so can't go wasting money on PID, however good they are.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

chimpsinties said:


> I'm saving for a Giotto so can't go wasting money on PID, however good they are.


Forget saving up... there's another Home Barista competition taking place at the London Coffee Festival... first prize looks very nice!

http://www.londoncoffeefestival.com/Partners/LaCimbali.aspx


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)




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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

http://www.casadio.com/eng/scheda_prodotto.asp?prod=22


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

I discovered this machine the other day, and could find very little info about it.

I think it could be my dream espresso machine.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

The only thing I'm not that keen on is that it hasn't got a lever switch to start the brew. It's buttons. I love that little lever on the Giotto's etc.


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

Yes. Good point. Shame that.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Are most of these prosumer machines software driven? Puts me off a bit. I like the simplicity of an espresso machine, if something breaks it's easy to fix, it's easier to look after and maintain, etc.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

seeq said:


> Are most of these prosumer machines software driven? Puts me off a bit. I like the simplicity of an espresso machine, if something breaks it's easy to fix, it's easier to look after and maintain, etc.


This is a good point but I bet the extent of the "software" is a timer for when you hit the button and enough to make it display the temp on the LCD.

I remember when they started flogging toasters with "Electronically controlled" on the side and it being a major selling point. Haha!


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Ok, 3 days trials and 3 results


DayIn (g)Out (g)TimeGrindComment116.532281LDose less.2185027.52HIncrease heat using steam switch31826291LStop short (1fl/oz)

I definitely think the stopping short got the best results. Still not particularly to my liking but better than the others.

I also realised today that I mucked up my experiment a bit. Day 1 I did my usual temp surfing of drawing about 4fl/oz then waiting for the light to come back on. Day 2 obviously I was over heating the water so I only vented the steam and a bit of water. Day 3 I litterally drew 0.5fl/oz if that into my cups to warm them.

Never mind. I've run out now so don't have to worry


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I like this.

So it looks like you didn't just stop it early, as it was still a 29s pull... it appears that what you've done is raise the strength of the extraction (TDS). A true ristretto, perhaps.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Yeah sorry. Stopping short wasn't really the right word to use. I meant making a short shot.


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## JamesG (Mar 29, 2012)

Does anyone know where the ratio 1:1.55 comes from - 1 being the dose weight and 1.55 being the shot weight? I remember James Hoffmann and Colin Harmon talking about it on their respective blogs but can't remember the reasoning behind the ratio.

Anyway on Day 3, you came closest to that ratio. Maybe one setting finer would have took you up to 27.9g.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

It's just a popular ratio... possibly because luminaries like JH have said in the past that they like espresso in that range so others have followed suit, and I think also because of a trend towards ristrettos that developed a few years ago. I've seen signs that the trend is coming to an end though, and the 50% (1:2) normalle making a resurgence.

Here's an old thread from this forum, with links back to an older thread on Home Barista.

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?3641-Weighing-espresso-and-brew-ratios


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

I seem to remember James Hoffman and Vince Fedele conducting a survey a number of years back and 55% approx. was the most popular ratio based upon people's taste.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

@ MikeHag "I've seen signs that the trend is coming to an end though, and the 50% (1:2) normalle making a resurgence."

This is where I get confused, 50% equates to 2:1 extraction vs grinds by weight. 15g dose & 30ml/g (~1oz) liquid out. Isn't that what is typically referred to as a "ristretto" (assuming corrected finer grind, shot stopped at blonding, as opposed to a regular/normale grind shot merely stopped early)?

Isn't a single "Normale" typically 7-9g dose at ~22-40g out (roughly 18%-40% range & allowing for some dovetailing between normale/lungo & normale/ristretto & putting personal dose preference aside...)

Ristretto originally being a max of 30g/1oz drawn from a 12-14g dose in a lever machine (45%-65%)?

It's entirely possible that I am a complete wuss of course...;-)...but I'm pretty sure that 1.55 ratio with the beans I am using at the moment (not Jail Break) would put me in A&E (plus I'd have to be force fed it), if I could even grind them that fine...?


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

To be honest, it depends upon the freshness of the coffee and hence how much crema is produced. With fresh beans, the crema will make up a significant proportion of the total volume of the beverage and so it is possible to get a 2 fl.Oz. shot weighing 30g. This is one of the reasons many people prefer to measure the quantity of beverage produced by weight rather than volume.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

MWJB said:


> @ MikeHag "I've seen signs that the trend is coming to an end though, and the 50% (1:2) normalle making a resurgence."
> 
> This is where I get confused, 50% equates to 2:1 extraction vs grinds by weight. 15g dose & 30ml/g (~1oz) liquid out. Isn't that what is typically referred to as a "ristretto" (assuming corrected finer grind, shot stopped at blonding, as opposed to a regular/normale grind shot merely stopped early)?
> 
> ...


Completely understandable to find this all a bit confusing, unclear or contradictory. There is no single definition of a ristretto, and people (me included) often talk about these things in a very factual way when actually we are basing our statements upon our own informal experiments and upon what credible people have said in the past, which has become 'lore'.

I'm basing my definitions upon the work of Andy Schecter, and his chart shown below. Again, it isn't a factual table and is just his own version of things... but I buy into it.

View attachment 1114


As per this chart, a double normalle at 50% (regular espresso) has ... at the mid-point of the range... a 2:1 brew ratio (a weight of double the dose i.e. 16g dose gives a 32g espresso), and the volume in ml can be anywhere between 40 and 76.



MWJB said:


> 15g dose & 30ml/g (~1oz) liquid out.


Note that 32g of espresso does not equate to 32ml. Grammes are a weight-based measure and millilitres are volumetric. A common error is for people new to brew ratios to think they can use g and ml interchangeably.

So using this definition, a ristretto has very little to do with the volume of espresso produced. It is all about the weight of the espresso in relation to the dose of grinds used.

For example, let's look at two possibilities on this chart, both using a 16g dose.

1. The Double Ristretto line. At the mid point (100%) it might have a max volume of 38ml.

2. The Double Normalle line. At the mid point (50%) it might have a min volume of 40ml.

These two are very close in volume terms... only 2ml difference... but they will have very different espresso weights (16g and 32g respectively), and will taste completely different.

So I hope this has helped, rather than confused things even more!!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

"Note that 32g of espresso does not equate to 32ml. Grammes are a weight-based measure and millilitres are volumetric. A common error is for people new to brew ratios to think they can use g and ml interchangeably."

OK, I need to start weighing stuff on the way out too, rather than "guesstimating" via graduations on the vessel. Looks like you are including crema as part of beverage volume? I had been focussing on settled liquid (as if a pint at the pub). So my ml/g observations are perhaps a little skewed in that respect, only a nominal deviation between g/ml at time of consumption.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

TBH I don't know whether Mr Schecter included crema or not, but even if you let the crema dissipate then there should be a few units difference between the ml and the g measurement, because over 20% of the grinds (i.e. maybe 3.5g) will now be in your cup in addition to the weight of the water.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Just to add a little more to this, when using VST's ExtractMojo (the software that goes with the VST refractometer), a default chart is included relating to espresso extraction. It gives the 'ideal' zones for TDS and Extraction Yield, and overlays the definitions of Lungo, Normalle and Ristretto, based upon the TDS strength.


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## truecksuk (Sep 22, 2011)

Monkey_Devil said:


> I always get reasonable results with jailbreak if i pull the shot above 70% brew ratio. Any lower and i find it too acidic.


what do you mean 'brew ratio 70%' monkey?


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

Brew ratio is the ratio of final product to the amount of beans used.

So if I use 18 grams of beans, and pull a shot that weighs 25g then that has a brew ratio of 72%







there's a thread on it here:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?5213-Volume-vs-Brew-Ratio-amp-weight&highlight=brew+ratio


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

@ Truecksuk - He means 18g dose giving

@ Mike, is there another chart specifically for Ristretto? If I'm reading that right (probably not) it's showing ~20% as Normale?

It's not that I am OCD about pidgeon holing & categorising (I dose, pull the shot, stop at blonding & what I get, within a reasonable timeframe, is "what I get"...then adjust dose & grind to taste)...I'm just having trouble grasping what a 100% brew ratio (Schecter's "Ristretto") extraction would taste like, especially using the Monsooned Malabar beans I had last week. Though, I suspect, like the Jail Break seems to be from this thread, they are not a regular, middle of the road, type bean/dose/extraction...either that or I seriously need to "grow a pair" 

I'll start another thread on my dosing & results, let this one get back on topic....


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Not sure where you're getting that, buddy. The chart shows all three main types of shot. Ristretto is in the range of 12-18% Total Dissolved Solids (x-axis), i.e. the most amount of solids compared to a normalle (medium amount) or lungo (least amount). Put another way, the most concentrated liquid. Hence it can in theory taste more concentrated. But in practise it depends on the coffee used, and also a large factor in how it tastes is the Extraction Yield (y-axis), showing what percentage of the coffee grinds ended up in the cup. Different Ext % gives different flavours. A ristretto can be much easier and sweeter to drink than a normalle in my experience.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Me personally - most coffees get pulled somewhere between a ristretto and a normale. So if you ask me to pull you a shot round mine you get 15g into 22-24g.

If I was asked to pull someone a ristretto I would probably go 15g into 16-19g, and asked for a normale would go 15g into 27-28g.

This is all based on taste however, each coffee is different


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

I know this is an old thread, but I just accidentally pulled a 1oz shot from 17g in 30 secs from jailbreak roasted 28th may. Sadly I didn't weigh the output, but it's well in the ristretto range. Amazingly though this is the best shot I've pulled from jailbreak.


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

That's because like most of hasbean coffee it's best pulled very tight. I'd suggest tasting it at 25secs without changing a thing see what you think


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

yeah, 75-85% brew ratio is great with jailbreak, sweet and delicious!


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I think that's how I nailed it in the end. Of course typically on my last shot before the bag ran out


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

I've been playing about and I have to agree, it's best between 75%-80% extraction. I've always had a bit of a thing for jailbreak anyway, but have a new found love recently.


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