# Such a Slow Flow Rate



## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

Hiya,

I have a Gaggia Classic and have been mainly using about 14/15g of Costa pre-ground, which tastes great, has a nice crème and good flow rate to pour.

I recently got some pre-ground Hasbean Brazil Fazenda Cachoeira da Grama Bourbon Pulped Natural 2012, which is absolutely divine, BUT it flows so so so slowing through the portafilta. Now I use the same 14/15g and have tried various tamping pressures, but to no avail.

Any tips or tricks to get my flow rate backup would be greatly appreciated









EN4


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

Really ?! I can't get over 20s no matter how hard I tamp or how much I put in, I've tried a few from hasbean, just tried union but that's even faster


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

Are you using the pressurized basket ?


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

brun said:


> Are you using the pressurized basket ?


Yes I am....

Its fine with all other coffee, inc Costa


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

To get a good result from pre-ground Costa I'd probably have to stick the group handle in my dad's vice, put a lead weight on my already heavy tamper and hammer it in ... Then updose the basket again and repeat.

The pressurized baskets are designed for you to not tamp at all, and they fake the crema. So while what you get looks good, it actually isn't. Try a non pressurized basket.


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

SlowRoast said:


> To get a good result from pre-ground Costa I'd probably have to stick the group handle in my dad's vice, put a lead weight on my already heavy tamper and hammer it in ... Then updose the basket again and repeat.
> 
> The pressurized baskets are designed for you to not tamp at all, and they fake the crema. So while what you get looks good, it actually isn't. Try a non pressurized basket.


On a side note... Do Costa sell pre-ground Decaf Coffee?


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

Until I get my grinder I think I'm going back to the pressurized basket


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

We never have. Decaf comes in pods at work, and we have seperate pod handles just for decaf. You might get away with asking to buy some of their decaf pods, but it's not available in tins as far as I'm aware.


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

Just tried my pressurized basket again, can't get over 20s with that either, grinder most definitely required, I've no idea how your managing to near choke the machine on ground from hasbean


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

To the OP, what is the timing you're getting from the Hasbean grinds for 2oz? This might provide some more information.


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

SlowRoast said:


> To the OP, what is the timing you're getting from the Hasbean grinds for 2oz? This might provide some more information.


ummmm, got to be like 40 sec minimum! oh and is there any way I could be doing my machine \ pump harm?


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

I've never got pre ground from hasbean, but I'd imagine it's probably finer than what you are used to. If you are using it in a pressurised basket then don't tamp it. But you will only get about a 20s pour.


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

seeq said:


> I've never got pre ground from hasbean, but I'd imagine it's probably finer than what you are used to. If you are using it in a pressurised basket then don't tamp it. But you will only get about a 20s pour.


I did try a light tamp a moment ago and the coffee started spluttering from the Portafilter... So maybe I need less coffee in the basket and a medium tamp??


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## onemac (Dec 15, 2011)

I got the introductory pack from Hasbean just before Christmas - all pre-ground and in stages I stuffed/tapped/tamped until my feet were off the ground (probably 20g+), only then I could get 20-25 seconds out of the pressurised filter. In reality 18g tamped hard came out around 15 seconds but it wasn't until I ground fresh beans myself that I choked the Classic. Not a lot of help I know but I've only just begun the home espresso journey myself and find I've more questions now than I did to begin with, even though I'm getting fairly tasty shots.

Al


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

40s !? Seriously, did you order Turkish grind ?


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

brun said:


> 40s !? Seriously, did you order Turkish grind ?


No Espresso!


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## robmx (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm getting really long extractions using some lavazza pre ground (forgive me, but, I'm not buying anything good until I get a grinder) and the pressurised basket. I've not timed it yet, but I've got a feeling it is over 25s. The grind of this stuff is miles finer than the whittards tobacco grind I got bought for Christmas.

I've got a feeling I tamp wayyyyyy too hard


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Just so everyone is clear, you DON'T tamp when using a pressurised basket, all you need to do is make the surface flat. The idea of the basket is that it builds up the pressure and forces the coffee through the small pin point hole creating a 'crema' the flow and pressure is dependent on the size of that hole. If you tamp (and it would have to be at a pretty huge force) the pressure will be almost entirely on the point with the hole and channel the water through the middle rather than across the basket resulting in a weak tasting coffee.


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

i do actually have a pack of lavazza which im yet to try

ive no clue how you guys are getting decent flow rates, the Union ive just used comes in 12-16s !!!

the absolute max ive got IIRC is 20s from any pre ground


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## robmx (Dec 20, 2011)

I'll time mine tonight and see what I'm getting with it. I know I got about 18s from the whittards stuff tamping quite hard.

At some points I feel like I'm really labouring the machine with this lavazza stuff.

I also dont see how channelling would occur if you tamp too hard, the water still has to pass through the puck before it gets to the hole below! So a consistent density would still mean a consistent flow through it.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

A pressurised basket is designed to build the pressure up so that the loose grinds swish aroubd and get infused into the water and then forced through the hole creating small bubbles and therefore a 'crema' (true crema is actually co2 produced from the coffee bean, which you wont get with pre ground coffee, as after about 10 minutes of being ground its no longer fresh enough). If it works properly when you knock the grinds out they will come out as a slush.

If you tamp hard then you will force the grinds together, as the pressure builds up the only escape is the small hole, the least resistance for the water is straight down the middle. Try it, when you knock the puck out most of it will still be dry.

If you want to improve your shots and be able to have more say in what you produce then buy an unpressurised basket. Trust me, tamping in a pressurised basket will decrease the quality you get.


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

Yeah.. I will eventually get a naked filter.. This morning it took a good Minute to get a double shot. I'll use my Costa stuff tomorrow or lightly tamp the Hasbeans..


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

did you get any other HasBean ?

does that flow the same ?


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I know it's not a fashionable thing to say but use the single filters PLEASE!

Brun 8 or 9 g into the single filter and tamp hard and straight down AFTER having made sure there is a level amount of grinds through the filter.

EN4CER, using a very light tamp with 7g of coffee in the single filter will probably help you.

People try and run before they can walk. You can't do miracles with your machines until you know them well. I remember my frustrations with my machine at first but once you get to know it, you'll be happy with your results.


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

brun said:


> did you get any other HasBean ?
> 
> does that flow the same ?


No just Costa pre-ground.

I'll try a single shot later on in the week. But tomorrow, I'll go for a double shot of Costa







.. I fancy it


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

Tried the lavazza, no crema, watery, super fast, 10 to 12s, rubbish


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

With Lavazza, you'll have to tamp 3 times. Put a little into the filter, tamp hard, a little more, tamp hard again and the finish it off. There is a Lavazza blend that the Italians love but it's best in bean form (obviously).


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

UPDATE

Single shot didn't make a difference.. but if I just flatten and NOT tamp I get a 45 sec extraction, with nice Creme and taste







)


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

so what happens if you do tamp ?


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

brun said:


> so what happens if you do tamp ?


80 sec extraction, bitter taste and no creme.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

All this talk of pre-ground / pressurised filters ....to quote Brock Lesnar ''You can't make chicken out of chicken sh1t''

Sorry , not very helpful ...im poorly right now & feeling miserable .


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> All this talk of pre-ground / pressurised filters ....to quote Brock Lesnar ''You can't make chicken out of chicken sh1t''
> 
> Sorry , not very helpful ...im poorly right now & feeling miserable .


You can, if the chicken ate a chicken and had very poor digestion









I'm off sick myself.. and drinking shots


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

EN4CER said:


> I'm off sick myself.. and drinking shots


good remedy! im working tho....lemsip it is : (


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

ref @robmx

seems strange the same machine would experience such different results with the same pre ground

the stuff i used was lavazza espresso in a black pack from the supermarket, use by date of 09/13

ive tried the pressurised basket, and the normal basket, tamped both and it wont go past 15s

stuff ive had from HasBean, the best ive got is 20s and thats tamping super hard and stuffing the basket with 18g

so far for me, nothing is working as it should, a grinder is defo required


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

brun said:


> seems strange the same machine would experience such different results with the same pre ground
> 
> the stuff i used was lavazza espresso in a black pack from the supermarket, use by date of 09/13
> 
> ive tried the pressurised basket, and the normal basket, tamped both and it wont go past 15s


It's pre ground, therefore as obvious as it sounds, you can't grind finer and unless you use an industrial press to tamp the grinds you won't get much more than 15 seconds, pressurised or not. You need a grinder to be able to adjust variables. If you have a pressurised filter, or you are using pre ground coffee then you have to put up with the results I'm afraid.


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## robmx (Dec 20, 2011)

I was using lavazza crema e gusto, I never even got round to timing it after being berated for using the pressurised basket haha

I'll have a go at timing it tomorrow for the sheer hell of it


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

seeq said:


> It's pre ground, therefore as obvious as it sounds, you can't grind finer and unless you use an industrial press to tamp the grinds you won't get much more than 15 seconds, pressurised or not. You need a grinder to be able to adjust variables. If you have a pressurised filter, or you are using pre ground coffee then you have to put up with the results I'm afraid.


But these guys are gettin 40s+


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

Just got some more Brazil Fazenda Cachoeira da Grama Bourbon Pulped Natural 2012 but for filter. The flow is excellent now, and the taste out of this word. I think I've found my ideal grind, until I get my own grinder









Big Up Has Bean


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

Filter grind in your espresso machine ?


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

Correct, and with a good tamp.. a 25 sec extraction and lovely taste. Although Has Bean filter grind is more like Costa Coffee's espresso!


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

I'm starting to think one of us has a faulty machine lol


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

Examples of grinds I've been using


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

brun said:


> I'm starting to think one of us has a faulty machine lol


I think you have ,.. As I only every had issue with the Hasbean espresso grind and now other.. All hunky dorry now.. Off for another brew to double check


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## robmx (Dec 20, 2011)

Well, I've just got some of the lavazza espresso stuff from Tesco, was only £1.80 a pack. Anyways, I've just run some through at about 16 seconds lol

I'm fully giving up on this until I get a grinder and a normal basket


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

robmx said:


> Well, I've just got some of the lavazza espresso stuff from Tesco, was only £1.80 a pack. Anyways, I've just run some through at about 16 seconds lol
> 
> I'm fully giving up on this until I get a grinder and a normal basket


Try some pre-ground from Costa and report back.. Sure you will be happy


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

Edit: [Oops, meant to reply to a message on the first page...]


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

robmx said:


> Well, I've just got some of the lavazza espresso stuff from Tesco, was only £1.80 a pack. Anyways, I've just run some through at about 16 seconds lol
> 
> I'm fully giving up on this until I get a grinder and a normal basket


I've got a normal basket and it flies through, can't wait get my grinder


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

brun said:


> I've got a normal basket and it flies through, can't wait get my grinder


I'd be very interested to see how you fair with HasBean espresso grind.. Fancy placing an order??

I would have given you some of mine, but its now amalgamated with the filter grind


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

I've had a few bags from hasbean, best I can get is 20s


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

Does sound like you have a machine problem!


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

Not really, pre ground shouldn't really get any longer as its not fresh, you shouldn't be seeing 40s+ from pre ground, and definitely not from filter grind !


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

brun said:


> Not really, pre ground shouldn't really get any longer as its not fresh, you shouldn't be seeing 40s+ from pre ground, and definitely not from filter grind !


I normally get 25-35 sec from espresso grind, only had issue with Hasbean espresso grind taking 50 + secs, now HasBean filter takes 25-35 sec.... So all good


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