# Couple of questions



## Andy1164 (Sep 7, 2011)

Still thinking of opening an Artisan Coffee Bar locally (kinda)

Got a couple of questions that some might like to comment on: -

1) Lets say I buy a commercial expresso machine. How do i deal with breadowns. Obviously I don't have an engineer next door. Lets assume I have a service contract with the supplier but an engineer won't be able to get to me for 6/12/24hrs

Do they breakdown, how often, are they really REALLY reliable.

2) Lets say I decide I want to bake on the premises, cakes, biscuits, tarts for sale to my customers. What class of property allows me to do that, just a normal A3 type property?

3) Disaster planning one this time, yeah I know I shouldn't but I DO have to think about it just to be sensible.

If the business is owned as a Husband and Wife partnership I assume that if things go really 'tits up' both of us could possibly be declared bankrupt?

Would a Sole Trader set up be safer so that only one of us carry that risk?

4) There are a few books on the market that offer advice and such like to people wanting to open an independant coffee shop. Could someone recccomend one. I got a Kindle for christmas and some of the books are available in this format.

That's all for now

Fank Yooo







)


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## maarten_booij (Jan 28, 2011)

Hi Andy,

I don't know a lot about the rules/law in England. I'm thinking of opening up a little coffee shop in Norway in a couple of years, so I started reading 'Setting Up and Managing Your Own Coffee Bar', written by John Richardson & Hugh Gilmartin. ISBN 978-1-84528-327-8. It is fairly simple level, but I have learned a lot from it (From not knowing a lot already).

Good luck with living the dream!


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

If you choose Fracino machines, they are produced in the UK and so probably have a very reasonable service contract.

More common and minor breakdowns it may be possible for you or one of your staff to learn how to fix it.

I believe if you are able to make a Ltd. company then no individual is at risk of bankruptcy but not sure how easy it is to set one up.


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## radish (Nov 20, 2011)

Setting up a limited company is pretty easy, but be aware that landlords may ask for a larger rent deposit when dealing with a limited company (there are other considerations when going down the limited company route). Class 3 would allow for cooking but check that ventilation is adequate as well (also, confirm that any property does have class 3 consent with the relevant Council).


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

The sponsor of the Midland UKBC heat, MadAboutCoffee do servicing so it may be worth a chat. With regard to business setup, you would be well advised to take professional advice especially with regard to partnerships. With a Ltd company you can have as many directors as you want, or make the other person the company secretary. However, each carries a responsibility. If you are starting up and your biggest concern is bankruptcy protection then I wouldn't bother - you are obviously not ready or haven't planned very well. Running your own business will always be a risk, but good planning is key to prevent being an "also ran". Risk mitigation isn't a synonym for "Emergency Exit".


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

I can only answer your third question (from previous work experience in actually making business bankrupt) by saying that in a partnership all partners are jointly and severally liable for all the debt - in other words, yes, in the gravest extreme, you could both me declared bankrupt.

And although the Ltd Co route may look attractive in that the liability of the directors has a fixed financial limit, it's worth bearing in mind that no-one is going to loan or grant large amounts of credit to a new Ltd Co with no track record unless someone is backing it with a personal guarantee of repayment.

There are tax/NIC differences between partnership/sole trading that you would need to investigate as well.

If this is a real concern, then you need to be taking qualified professional advice.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

1. Commercial equipment is designed to be reliable. But it depends on so many things, and you should expect breakdowns occasionally... not just the espresso machine but also dishwasher, bakery oven etc. All you can do is reduce that risk by buying good quality products and maintaining them.

2. Cold food... you might manage A1. Speak to your local planning dept.

3. Yes, but take advice from an accountant. There is more to this decision than limiting your liability, and it would have to be done properly.

4. Get more than one. The Coffee Boys two books definitely. Anyone Can Do It by Sahar Hashemi who started Coffee Republic.

And of course if you want to make truly good coffee, David Schomer's book and both of Scott Rao's.

Are you an experienced barista?


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## Andy1164 (Sep 7, 2011)

Thanks for you invaluable help, as always.

I hope I can get some of those books on Kindle. Cool pressie. Consider one, shopping for reading material from you armchair.

Thank's, got some shopping to do, coffee grinder and books/books









A bit more background, just to alay coffeemagics fear's :-

Personal circumstances demand that secure my families future, I HAVE to demonstrate that I am not going to make everyone homless.

Bankruptsy is not my biggest fear, lots of things go through my mind that I don't have answers for.

No I have not planned very well, I'm creating an image of what I'd love to do, to create a great atmosphere, supplying unenviable demand where people feel at home and relaxed.

As I create this image, I find more questions that I can't see the answer to. this is a good place to get those answers

I'm not a Barista, I've never used a commercial expresso machine in my life. I'm a guy with a dream and determination to decide to do something he would enjoy doing for the rest of his life.

Cliche? soundbite? Wannabe?

Maybe, but I 'aint sitting infront of a PC for the next 20 years


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## Barry Cook (Feb 14, 2012)

1. As already mentioned, espresso machines are designed to be reliable BUT rely heavily on being looked after, not only serviced regularily but cleaned & looked after properly by you and your staff. Some fall into the trap of thinking that by buying a top drawer machine that it will behave well even when abused by staff - big mistake. We have used a Wega Nova for 6 years, with the only issue being scale build up due to the local water quality. We didn't have a water filter (hurl abuse at me is you wish) to start with due to relying on advice from the project manager when we first opened, but now filter fitted so no further issues. My calculations reckon on over 1/4 million coffees without any other issues, so we have just bought another larger Wega to cope with demand. As for service contracts, we don't have one but have a very good engineer (also machine supplier) and he has been known to drop everything to get to us when we've had issues, even though he is a 4 hour drive away!

2. Each council seem to operate planning consent differently. It may well even dictate which type you have dependent on how much of your trade will be take-away. Again, as previously recommended, call your local planning dept. They may well even have a leaflet to send out to you relating to this.

3. Limited Company would be an option, as it is what it says - limited liability. BUT you may find you are asked to provide personal security by the bank for any loan, and maybe the landlord especially in the current economic climate, in which case you could still end up with big personal losses if it does go belly up. As above, speak to your accountant.

4. Both Coffee Boys books have provided us with many helpful pointers. Even though we've been trading for a little over 6 years now, there are still things that I am taking from them now to improve what we do.


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