# Verona, Veloce or?



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

After a happy 18 months with my Giotto Evo I'm contracting upgradeitis again.

Cannot decide whether to dip a toe in the lever waters or go to a DB pump. Budget is around £1300 and I don't mind almost new/second hand. BB have a Veloce for £1200 and there is a used Verona on here.

Should I be looking at anything else? All thoughts gratefully received. E.g. L1 v Veloce.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Check out this post: An odyssey into the espressosphere!

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30912


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Having owned both pumps and levers, with your mind, personally would go Veloce. It is a hell of a price as long as they still give it some warranty as this was genuinely £1695. Buy it, try it and you then be able to see things from both sides of the fence


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

pessutojr said:


> Check out this post: An odyssey into the espressosphere!
> 
> http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30912


Read the whole of this interesting thread. Thank you for the link. It has helped get me to Verona v Veloce and I'm leaning towards Verona.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Having owned both pumps and levers, with your mind, personally would go Veloce. It is a hell of a price as long as they still give it some warranty as this was genuinely £1695. Buy it, try it and you then be able to see things from both sides of the fence


Thanks David. What are you using these days? Still the Nota? I'm sorely tempted to try the Veloce but I think I'm so used to E61 it might annoy me waiting for the pressure to release when doing back-to-back shots.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Rob666 said:


> Thanks David. What are you using these days? Still the Nota? I'm sorely tempted to try the Veloce but I think I'm so used to E61 it might annoy me waiting for the pressure to release when doing back-to-back shots.


That is the only downside really. Still using the Nota which I really rate. I have 2machines, the Nota and a Profitec 700......I let my son play with that one.....not all will agree but other than a Pid which I see as a red herring because does anyone really adjust the temp very often anyway?Waiting for the pressure to drain away is not that bad.....you just need to learn to loosen the pf handle very slowly otherwise it blows off......loosen solway, vent a little then repeat.....


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> That is the only downside really. Still using the Nota which I really rate. I have 2machines, the Nota and a Profitec 700......I let my son play with that one.....not all will agree but other than a Pid which I see as a red herring because does anyone really adjust the temp very often anyway?Waiting for the pressure to drain away is not that bad.....you just need to learn to loosen the pf handle very slowly otherwise it blows off......loosen solway, vent a little then repeat.....


Yeees! I think I can see how that could be annoying. OTOH we soon get used to these foibles. As for temp, I would like to experiment a bit but it isn't a deal killer.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

@dfk41 While I think about it, I believe you've had both L1 and Veloce? If so I would be interested in your thoughts between the two.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I should have mentioned earlier in this thread that we are into the darker beans and mostly in milk.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Lever lever lever, is there any other way ( says the guy who has l1p and gs3! Although the lever pulls the better shot)


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Rob666 said:


> @dfk41 While I think about it, I believe you've had both L1 and Veloce? If so I would be interested in your thoughts between the two.


Well, I do not want to start a war....so, lets see if I can be objective. Both machines share a lot of components, such as group, thermosyphon design. The Veloce has a smaller boiler. The 2 are similar but the L1 has stood the test of time. By that, I mean what is a coffee machine. It is a variety of components assembled together. Eventually some will fail, as you would expect. The V is no longer being made but it was put together by QuickMill using standard industry stuff. The V is being discounted heavily to pretty much cost price as once the stock goes there will be no more. Is that a problem.....not as I see it. For £1200 you will get a Mark 1 L1, probably 3 years old or you can have a brand new Veloce. I guess which one is better is purely opinion.

Having owned both, I cannot really recall one being much better than the other (because they share so many components). The first run of the QM had temp stability problems as the thermosyphon stalled. This was discovered to be a fault as between the pre production model and the first run, someone increased the boiler size which knocked the geometry out. Fault discovered and fixed and after that, I am not aware of any further issues.

Hope that helps. @Soll is someone who upgraded from aStrega to a VEeoce, and last thing I heard still loved it!


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Well, I do not want to start a war....so, lets see if I can be objective. Both machines share a lot of components, such as group, thermosyphon design. The Veloce has a smaller boiler. The 2 are similar but the L1 has stood the test of time. By that, I mean what is a coffee machine. It is a variety of components assembled together. Eventually some will fail, as you would expect. The V is no longer being made but it was put together by QuickMill using standard industry stuff. The V is being discounted heavily to pretty much cost price as once the stock goes there will be no more. Is that a problem.....not as I see it. For £1200 you will get a Mark 1 L1, probably 3 years old or you can have a brand new Veloce. I guess which one is better is purely opinion.
> 
> Having owned both, I cannot really recall one being much better than the other (because they share so many components). The first run of the QM had temp stability problems as the thermosyphon stalled. This was discovered to be a fault as between the pre production model and the first run, someone increased the boiler size which knocked the geometry out. Fault discovered and fixed and after that, I am not aware of any further issues.
> 
> Hope that helps. @Soll is someone who upgraded from aStrega to a VEeoce, and last thing I heard still loved it!


Thanks David, a very balanced view. I'm more inclined to trust Quickmill as a builder, so I guess I'm answering my own question. It's back to one of the two Quickmill machines, Verona or Veloce.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Releasing any pressure , should you desire, is not an issue.

its so much easier with a lever , and in my opinion a no brainier

i upgraded from an evo and tbh although I loved the rocket to pieces and enjoyed it every day and would still be happy to own one , it's no where near as easy and consistent to achieve great shots as the L1.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Lever.(am a biased convert based on taste in the cup







)

You could always use the time whilst waiting for the lever to release pressure to steam your milk or get a 2nd portafilter & use the time to grind your beans ready for next shot.

Was tempted by the verona before christmas till the idea of a bigger roaster took prescedence

John


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

I love a lever .... But I am not sure I could live with it full time.

The pump gives you greater flexibility pulling longer shots, easier than trying to get more volume from a lever where you have to either double pull risking puck fracture or trying to remove cup and scales from beneath the group without making a mess OR having multiple baskets and having to adjust grind for each one as you swap on a whim

then there is the annoyance of having to make lots of coffee for friends and fearing the sneeze ... Still gets me from time to time

but ... They are more consistant AND the lever profile seems to bring a lot more to the cup ..... Guess it's like MP suggesting we all try 6bar ... With a lever you try ALL the bars in the same shot as it goes from 9bar and tails off as the shot progresses.

if it was me ... I would buy the Verona on here for your main machine and go pick up a cheap lever (la pav, microcimbali, Elektra, caravelle) to itch the lever scratch and have a play).

i did that with a la pav and it ended up being my favorite machine of all time .... Wouldn't be with ought a pump though


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

I've found since the L1 went on the bench I have spent less time worrying about the machine and more time concentrating on the coffee .

PS. Plus There is no magic with a pump


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Owning an L1, it would be easy for me to say buy an L1.

But with the Veloce being at £1200, it would take a really strong argument not to buy. An argument that I cant come up with.


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## KopiO (Nov 8, 2014)

Any advantages with New Veloce with PID over the Original Veloce?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

KopiO said:


> Any advantages with New Veloce with PID over the Original Veloce?


You have seen an advert which should have been pulled. The machine is advertised as a Veloce but is actually a Pompei. The Veloce is no longer made and other than a prototype, never had a pid


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Well, I do not want to start a war....so, lets see if I can be objective. Both machines share a lot of components, such as group, thermosyphon design. The Veloce has a smaller boiler. The 2 are similar but the L1 has stood the test of time. By that, I mean what is a coffee machine. It is a variety of components assembled together. Eventually some will fail, as you would expect. The V is no longer being made but it was put together by QuickMill using standard industry stuff. The V is being discounted heavily to pretty much cost price as once the stock goes there will be no more. Is that a problem.....not as I see it. For £1200 you will get a Mark 1 L1, probably 3 years old or you can have a brand new Veloce. I guess which one is better is purely opinion.
> 
> Having owned both, I cannot really recall one being much better than the other (because they share so many components). The first run of the QM had temp stability problems as the thermosyphon stalled. This was discovered to be a fault as between the pre production model and the first run, someone increased the boiler size which knocked the geometry out. Fault discovered and fixed and after that, I am not aware of any further issues.
> 
> Hope that helps. @Soll is someone who upgraded from aStrega to a VEeoce, and last thing I heard still loved it!


The BB version is discontinued true, as is the Achille, but QM have made a new version of the Veloce, build on the same ideas, from I have been told. It uses different panels, PID etc. but should be basically the same machine. But the price won't be as nice as the one found at BB

http://www.quickmill.it/eng/domestic-coffee-machines-traditional-professional-quick-mill-model-veloce-0987.aspx


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

malling said:


> The BB version is discontinued true, as is the Achille, but QM have made a new version of the Veloce, build on the same ideas, from I have been told. It uses different panels, PID etc. but should be basically the same machine. But the price won't be as nice as the one found at BB
> 
> http://www.quickmill.it/eng/domestic-coffee-machines-traditional-professional-quick-mill-model-veloce-0987.aspx


Thanks for that info. I was not aware.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Well, I got distracted by other stuff. (Prevaricated) So I missed out on both possibilities. My fault. I have no doubt there will be further opportunities in the future.


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