# Naked portafilter test



## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Now a couple of weeks in with my new machine and I think I'm making some progress. I plucked up the courage to try the naked portafilter this morning. On the plus side, the room doesn't resemble Spud's bed sheets. On the other hand, I don't really know what to conclude from what I'm seeing. The main thing it seems to me is it's all coming through from round the edge rather than in the middle of the basket, so I guess I'm not distributing evenly enough yet. I have also moved to a finer grind than before with a move to some new beans, so even though I'm on 2:1 in 30s, I wonder whether I've got that right - it was a bigger move of the knob than my previous adjustments.

What say you experienced folk?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

How does the coffee taste?

Baskets will make a massive difference to the extraction process too


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

You ratio is 1:2?

What's your prep Method?

And how did it taste?


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

It's a bit on the thin and sour side I'd say. I chose the beans for a sweet nutty description and I'm not achieving that.


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

It's a bit on the thin and sour side I'd say. I chose the beans for a sweet nutty description and I'm not achieving that.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

LukeT said:


> It's a bit on the thin and sour side I'd say. I chose the beans for a sweet nutty description and I'm not achieving that.


Work on distribution before changing grind.

Shots channeling producing sourness.

Prep clip please.

What dose also in what basket.


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Mignon grinder with settings settled over a couple of shots, 18g vst basket, levelling device. 18.3g in, 37 out (aimed for 36 but overran slightly) in about 30 secs. 93 degrees on the PID I think (I've not touched this yet, I figure it's above my pay grade!).


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

I'm on my first day with the levelling device. I wonder whether I'm compressing the middle with it before evenly distributing, so that after tamping the middle may be more compressed than the outside. I set it so it sits just low enough that I'm left with a visibly flat surface before tamping.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I'm not contradicting Bootsy where he says fix your prep before adjusting grind. But I will just say that often when I've ground too fine and tamped too hard (well, ground too fine really) a 'doughnut extraction' can often be the result. Definitely look at prep first, especially as your shot time seems good. But just worth bearing in mind. (Also bear in mind I'm not a coffee trainer!)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

hotmetal said:


> I'm not contradicting Bootsy where he says fix your prep before adjusting grind. But I will just say that often when I've ground too fine and tamped too hard (well, ground too fine really) a 'doughnut extraction' can often be the result. Definitely look at prep first, especially as your shot time seems good. But just worth bearing in mind. (Also bear in mind I'm not a coffee trainer!)


Fair point. My Comment was based around the Op adjusting finer which I wouldn't be doing based on the channeling I saw on that clip.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The VST basket does this kinda thing a lot, sometimes a weird looking extraction still tastes good, but as you said - not in this case.

It can be a lot of things, you just have to go through them one by one until something makes a positive difference.

-Your starting ratio should be 1:2 - so 18g of coffee into 36g of espresso. However different coffees prefer different ratios, as do different palettes. I cut pretty much all my shots off at 25-32g

-The amount of coffee in the basket - first of all make sure there isn't too much as this is a sure fire way to get channeling. Put a penny on your dry puck, lock in and then remove PF - the penny should barely have dented the puck. Even then just try down dosing to 17g, extra headroom can help with a good extraction (or maybe its just the finer grind required that helps out).

- Distribution - as above, this can be key. Try grinding into a cup (preferably metal, helps with static) and mixing the grinds about before placing in PF and tamping.


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Thanks all for the comments. Another go today with video of my prep...











In 2 clips because the phone fell off its precarious perch.

Video of the resulting shot to follow also. The taste of my shots is generally improving a little over time, although I'd still make similar comments as before. This one brought in a hint of bitterness that wasn't there before.

I have noticed, although perhaps not specifically on this one, that I often tamp not quite level, leaving the surface a little lower on the left. However, my shot where this was most pronounced was actually one of my better tasting ones.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

LukeT said:


> Thanks all for the comments. Another go today with video of my prep...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd say you're tamping too hard. Looks like you picked yourself off the ground then lol. Try a lighter tamp and see what happens


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Agree with Joey, also you seem to be 'faffing' to much before tamping, take a look at the links below, hope they help

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/3-press-tamping-technique


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Ah ha. I've over compensated and am now tamping like a farmer...

The shot that this prep was for is here:






A bit more even I think than the previous one.

I guess on lightening the tamp I may then need to take the grind a little finer?


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Does the 3 press technique mean fingers on the metal pressing only, nothing on the knob?


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

If you wish to hold your 'knob' at the same time as tamping, that's your prerogative 

Tamper handle in my palm, it sits there naturally and use it to apply pressure, fingers and thumb to keep tamper base level with the portafilter rim.


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Appearance is still quite similar (more coming from round the edge than the middle) with a lighter and level tamp but nothing else changed. Shot time has reduced a couple of secs I assume as a direct result. Taste is with my best so far and I feel I'm now making a flat white I'd be quite happy with in a cafe, albeit I'm still a way off what I think I should really be getting out of these beans. I'm certainly improving from this advice and using the naked pf. Thank you all for putting up with my numpty questions. I think I'll persevere with the naked pf and small changes and see where that takes me over the next week.

Out of interest, anyone fitted a shorter handle to a Motta tamper?


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

LukeT said:


> Appearance is still quite similar (more coming from round the edge than the middle) with a lighter and level tamp but nothing else changed. Shot time has reduced a couple of secs I assume as a direct result. Taste is with my best so far and I feel I'm now making a flat white I'd be quite happy with in a cafe, albeit I'm still a way off what I think I should really be getting out of these beans. I'm certainly improving from this advice and using the naked pf. Thank you all for putting up with my numpty questions. I think I'll persevere with the naked pf and small changes and see where that takes me over the next week.
> 
> Out of interest, anyone fitted a shorter handle to a Motta tamper?


I've got some fancy skateboard ones but they aren't shorter


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Search for wdt and give that a go, those big old clumps will be causing uneven grinds in the basket and will be breaking the overall extraction.

Tamp lighter.

Don't tap the handle after you've used the distribution tool.

That should get you into a better place but mostly the first one


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

May I add my two penneth worth. Regarding tamping pressure, one way to get a feel for, say, 30lb would be to press your tamper down on some bathroom scales. You are looking to create a compressed, level bed of coffee of even density. I find holding that picture in my mind as I tamp helps.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

MildredM said:


> May I add my two penneth worth. Regarding tamping pressure, one way to get a feel for, say, 30lb would be to press your tamper down on some bathroom scales. You are looking to create a compressed, level bed of coffee of even density. I find holding that picture in my mind as I tamp helps.


I definitely have found the best method for me is to have the pf angled when I tamp. Gives me a lovely even bed and stops me from tamping too hard also. I think it was @Obnic who mentioned it a while back so thanks for that


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

LukeT said:


> Ah ha. I've over compensated and am now tamping like a farmer...
> 
> The shot that this prep was for is here:
> 
> ...


Taste?


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Taste is improving. (Untrained palate says) more balanced than before although I think you'd expect more sweetness still. I have avoided changing any more variables so far, instead concentrating on distribution and tamp to ensure I know whether I'm improving and what the effect is. I suspect I should tamp lighter still and work on this alone for a few days. I also think many of my previous shots were marred by a slight overrun on time and therefore ratio.

That said, they appear under the naked pf to be getting a bit more even now. The naked pf is invaluable for visual feedback on what's really going on. I'm very glad I followed that piece of advice and so far I'm yet to make a mess with it.


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Glad to hear your heading in the right direction always a positive. I believe your doing the right thing concentrating on one aspect at a time, far to easy to go fiddling with this, then that and then the other, ending up going in circles and getting frustrated, been there.

Taste, ie does it taste good to you is your main goal, you say its improved, hurrah a step forward, and a huge positive, tiny steps they say


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Definitely improving and also enjoying the process.

Unfortunately I'm now away with work for a few days so my voyage of discovery is on hold. But, then again, a bit of decaffeination may be sensible...

Next instalment: "stupid questions about milk" but one thing at a time...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tamping can get confusing , yet as long as it is level. , it has the least impact of most variables ( IMHO ) . People really get hung up on too hard , or too soft , key is , do it the same ish each time . Hard enough to keep the coffee on the basket.

30lbs or whatever. You hear alot of things , grind fine , tamp light, but you have to have a grinder capable and a machine with good soft pre infusion to get the best from this motto. So get a mojo going , level and same ish ( 5 lbs with way aint gonna hurt ) . The reasons to tamp too hard os a physical one for those making huge amounts of shots a day .

Get repeatable on whats comfortable with the knowledge that its having the least impact on taste , so you can concentrate on the other stuff.


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

I'm another week now into working largely on my distribution to improve my shots. I've got to a stage where my shots are a little bit better than they were, and results are essentially the same across 2 or 3 distribution methods, but channelling can still be seen on every naked PF shot. The first drips can be slow to come through (so I'm not driven to go finer, and have tested to choking point before) but a few more seconds in and I feel the shot is coming too fast and thin. To a varying extent there's this sourness always there and almost all shots are thin. Shortening shot time and ratio seems like treating the symptom rather than the cause.

Distributions methods are:

1. just a spin with the distribution tool then tamp

2. stir (with now a mini whisk, previously just a little stick) with a funnel to keep the grinds from falling out, then a downward tap, remove filter and tamp.

3. stir then spin with the distribution tool then tamp.

4. A poor imitation of the Stockfleths thing, but with enough other options I haven't worried about that.

With results essentially the same across 1-3 here, and probably even 4, makes me think it's not a glaring deficiency in one technique, since the deficiency appears the same when different techniques are compared. Not saying my technique's great, just that I'd expect different results across different methods if one were at major fault.

As above I've tried to keep tamping force consistent, and gentler than I was originally, and small variations now don't seem to be having further effect. Possibly nutating makes for a small further improvement but I couldn't say so with certainty. So it seems to me that just follows what others have said about this being the least important variable.

I also note on only a couple of goes with a new whisk that it's definitely not moving through a light fluffy bed of grinds, rather it feels like it's dragging or sort of compressing them. This makes me think perhaps I have some wide variation in particle size in there, and also reminded me that someone remarked to me that they would just replace the burrs if buying a second-hand grinder they weren't 100% sure about. So at only £20 that is my next move.


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