# Another which La Pavoni thread



## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

I'm pretty much sure the answer to my question is the Europiccola Lussio EL but want to check....

First off I like the chrome bass for it's looks and durability, I'd probably not go for the Wood ELH version as maybe getting a well matched bottomless portafilter with wood handle might be an issue. I would probably add a pressure gauge and the stainless steel grid (I think the grid is included with the ELH).

My question is whether I should consider the Professional at all? Mostly I'll be making 1, 2 or 3 shots at a time so the smaller boiler should be fine as per the general advice. I've seen the videos showing how the group head temperature increases at about 10C per shot of water run through it. To obtain the correct temp I'd almost run the boiler out of water. I believe the better approach is to wait for the whole structure to heat up and then run just a little water through it - this takes up to 10 mins? If I went for the larger boiler with the Professional I could run more water through the head but I'd have to wait for the larger boiler to heat up so there'd be little benefit except that the Professional has the gauge. Is my thinking correct?

I'm thinking about a new machine but I ought to contact coffeechap when I have enough posts....


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

CliveM2 said:


> I'm pretty much sure the answer to my question is the Europiccola Lussio EL but want to check....
> 
> First off I like the chrome bass for it's looks and durability, I'd probably not go for the Wood ELH version as maybe getting a well matched bottomless portafilter with wood handle might be an issue. I would probably add a pressure gauge and the stainless steel grid (I think the grid is included with the ELH).
> 
> I'm thinking about a new machine but I ought to contact coffeechap when I have enough posts....


You should be able to swap the handles between a La Pav bottomless and the origional PF supplied.

If going for the cheaper pattern bottomless you could do a size reduction and thread recut on one half of the threaded insert?

Many of your questions are answered here:

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?47916-Which-la-pavoni-to-go-for

@coffeechap is a good idea. Perhaps he will contact you first!

PS.Welcome to the forum!


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

Batian said:


> You should be able to swap the handles between a La Pav bottomless and the origional PF supplied.
> 
> If going for the cheaper pattern bottomless you could do a size reduction and thread recut on one half of the threaded insert?
> 
> ...


Thanks, yes I was thinking about being able to swap portafilter handles. I suppose my choice mostly come down to my view of aesthetics which only I can answer...

New or used is the other choice so yes coffeechap will be great to contact once I've hit the 5 posts requirement.

I just know this is going to be a terrible obsession!


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

CliveM2 said:


> Thanks, yes I was thinking about being able to swap portafilter handles. I suppose my choice mostly come down to my view of aesthetics which only I can answer...
> 
> New or used is the other choice so yes coffeechap will be great to contact once I've hit the 5 posts requirement.
> 
> I just know this is going to be a terrible obsession!


I applaud your approach, and a good amount of research first. The Pav's are one of those rare things in life almost bulletproof, not perfect but respond to someone who takes an interest and learns to understand them. Its almost a machine you build a relationship with and develop a ritual around, its sounds a bit arty farty but the process is lots of fun.


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

jimbojohn55 said:


> I applaud your approach, and a good amount of research first. The Pav's are one of those rare things in life almost bulletproof, not perfect but respond to someone who takes an interest and learns to understand them. Its almost a machine you build a relationship with and develop a ritual around, its sounds a bit arty farty but the process is lots of fun.


Thanks! BTW talking to coffeechap made me realise how much more understanding I need to gain about previous La Pav versions so I can work out whether I want new or a potentially better built older version. There's so much to find out.

To keep all my info in one place here's what I posted in my intro thread:

Hi everyone, I've just joined the forum. To date I've been using 2 cup and 4 cup sized Bialetti stove top moka expresses. I currently get my beans from Rave Coffee - The Italian Job being my favourite with milk; when I move to real espressos I'll need to experiment at lot! I use a Krups GVX242 flat burr grinder which is the improved version of the GVX231 in that it's said grind fine enough for espresso and even Turkish.

My heart is leading me towards the steep learning curve of a La Pavoni Europiccola. I may try starting out with my existing grinder but I expect to need to move to a conical burr grinder (I'd likely go for a manual, Apollo or Lido-E). The main issue with my Krups grinder is likely to be the small number of settings for an espresso grind so fine tuning for the La Pavoni would be tricky.

I'm here to learn and share as and when I learn something useful enough to share.

Cheers!


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

If it helps, all can do the business, each has its own strengths, I would jump in with whichever year or model you fancy, they retain their value so its no great issue to swop for a different version at some point, part of the fun is trying different machines.


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

jimbojohn55 said:


> If it helps, all can do the business, each has its own strengths, I would jump in with whichever year or model you fancy, they retain their value so its no great issue to swop for a different version at some point, part of the fun is trying different machines.


Thanks, it does help and it's where I'm getting to. Before I joined the forum yesterday life seemed much simpler!

I was going to get a new domestic Lusso for £450 plus a few extra parts to go with it, ie naked PF, tamper,stainless steel grid so £550 in total.

My alternative is to get a good used/restored Lusso at £250 and buy the other parts, total cost £340.

Naturally a totally new machine would lose more value than a used one which should be relatively static in value.

Now I have to get into 49mm and 51mm, pre-millennium or not. Pressurestat or not. I don't want to make my learning curve to pull espressos even harder so I suppose I need a pressurestat - does this mean a millennium version?

What I don't want to do is get a model where if I need a new element I'd have trouble, ie no spares or having send it to Hungary.

I also understand that the latest models use more plastic and this can be an issue - does this mean pretty much all millennium models are similar in terms of plastic vs the current ones available new?


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

Spares are not usually a problem in the UK.

Here is a good starting place:

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/La-Pavoni-Domestic-Diagrams/cc-48.aspx


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

Batian said:


> Spares are not usually a problem in the UK.
> 
> Here is a good starting place:
> 
> https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/La-Pavoni-Domestic-Diagrams/cc-48.aspx


That's the site I've mostly been using, they seem very reputable.

For my greatest concern - the element - when I checked there they have one described as: "The old 2 stage element used on Pavoni lever machines till the mid 90's.". It does indeed sound like an older machine would be fine. Why have I read about some elements being unobtainable and need to be fixed by a guy in Hungary. Are these _really_ old machines?

Sorry everyone, there's so much to get up to speed with!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

CliveM2 said:


> That's the site I've mostly been using, they seem very reputable.
> 
> For my greatest concern - the element - when I checked there they have one described as: "The old 2 stage element used on Pavoni lever machines till the mid 90's.". It does indeed sound like an older machine would be fine. Why have I read about some elements being unobtainable and need to be fixed by a guy in Hungary. Are these _really_ old machines?
> 
> Sorry everyone, there's so much to get up to speed with!


The simple answer is yes! The 695 machines first and second generation have a unique base plate in which the element is integral, these are the machines often referred to Gabor for replacing the element.


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

One last question.....(I'd like to think so anyway!). For a person new to LPs how much tougher would it be to learn to control the group head temperature on a pre-millennium vs a millennium? I believe the difference aside from the size of the group head is due to the milleniums have a thermostat which helps somewhat.

Thanks guys, this forum really IS very friendly!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Temp is controlled by the pressure stat, simple, they don't have a thermostat, they have a thermal cut out fuse and a pressure stat, the pressure dictates the temp.


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

coffeechap said:


> Temp is controlled by the pressure stat, simple, they don't have a thermostat, they have a thermal cut out fuse and a pressure stat, the pressure dictates the temp.


This I think is where my confusion lies. I've seen people talk about waiting for the light to go off and on a couple of times and assumed this was switching the element off. Does this occur with pre-millenium as well as millennium? I get that it's driven by pressure and pressure directly correlates with temperature.

Apologies of the basic questions....and big thanks for your patience.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

CliveM2 said:


> This I think is where my confusion lies. I've seen people talk about waiting for the light to go off and on a couple of times and assumed this was switching the element off. Does this occur with pre-millenium as well as millennium? I get that it's driven by pressure and pressure directly correlates with temperature.
> 
> Apologies of the basic questions....and big thanks for your patience.


It does on any Pavoni that has a single element - from 91 onwards - although they also continued to make duel elements up to 97 or 98

both are simple to use, well simplish - have a look at this http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/lapavoni_ep_eng.htm


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## sumatra (Oct 3, 2018)

CliveM2 said:


> My question is whether I should consider the Professional at all? Mostly I'll be making 1, 2 or 3 shots at a time so the smaller boiler should be fine as per the general advice. I've seen the videos showing how the group head temperature increases at about 10C per shot of water run through it. To obtain the correct temp I'd almost run the boiler out of water. I believe the better approach is to wait for the whole structure to heat up and then run just a little water through it - this takes up to 10 mins?


If you will only make 1-3 cups then I think Europiccola will be enough. But I heard the Pro is better at steaming though.

To warm up the group head you don't need to actually pull water through it. It's a waste of water. Just do a "dry pump" by raising the handle just to the point before the water come out. It will raise the grouphead temp in a more controllable manner. If you let water through the group head, it will raise the temp so quick making it way too hot. My EP pre-mill is ready in about 5 minutes from a cold start with the dry pump move.

My suggestion is to get one with a pressure stat as it is easier to control. Some later pre-mill have it as well as the millennium. I heard the millennium has a more stable group head temp due to the sleeve inside but if you decide to buy the pre-mill there's always a way to achieve that as well either by putting a heatsink on the group head or modifying the group to be water heated. And temp strips/digital thermometer on the grouphead will help a lot and it is one of the must have add-on for a LP.

Happy hunting and be sure that you will have a lot of fun with your LP, not to mention the excellent shots you will get from it.


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

Thanks sumatra, the dry pump sounds like a good method. I have a digital thermometer on the way already. I've plumped for a Pro as the deal includes moths of the accessories I need and indeed a manual grinder I was already considering. I expect to to have months of experimentation ahead of me and that's part of the fun.


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## sumatra (Oct 3, 2018)

CliveM2 said:


> Thanks sumatra, the dry pump sounds like a good method. I have a digital thermometer on the way already. I've plumped for a Pro as the deal includes moths of the accessories I need and indeed a manual grinder I was already considering. I expect to to have months of experimentation ahead of me and that's part of the fun.


Just saw the other thread. You have a really good deal there with all that accessories. That's a complete package to start your journey. And the Lido ET is a good grinder, one of the recommended hand grinder around.

Have fun!


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

Whilst I await my pre-mill professional (I'm collecting it next week) I'm wondering whether I should get a single hole steam/milk nozzle. I'll give it a go with the 3 hole in case the steam abilities from the professional boiler overcomes the 3 holes. Or is this a forlorn hope? It's not like a single hole nozzle will break the bank..and anyway initially I'll focus on espressos.


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