# Harder than I expected :(



## Crippy (Sep 30, 2017)

Hi Guys,

Finally set up my Silvia and Sage grinder pro tonight.

Pulled about 6 shots and still struggling to get anything worthwhile.

First shot flowed too quick then the rest hardly anything came out.

Grinding between settings 7-13. Using the crappy tamper which doesnt even reach the sides of the basket either.

Not sure what im doing wrong tbh so would be really grateful if you guys to give me some advice.

Thanks


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Crippy said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Finally set up my Silvia and Sage grinder pro tonight.
> 
> ...


I am sure I speak for everyone when I say we've all been there! Don't get disheartened, get a good sleep, relax a bit, and don't panic. The first few days are the stuff of nightmares!

You will need a proper tamper


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

MildredM said:


> I am sure I speak for everyone when I say we've all been there! Don't get disheartened, get a good sleep, relax a bit, and don't panic. The first few days are the stuff of nightmares!
> 
> You will need a proper tamper


Completely echo Mildreds sentiments:

I documented my failings on this thread:

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D37787&share_tid=37787&share_fid=6813&share_type=t

OMG shes a spurter


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I hear you, your not the only one. I jumped in with two feet!! persevere I have no patience.


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## Crippy (Sep 30, 2017)

Probably should have bought some cheap beans to practice with too instead of my nice ones


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## ZappyAd (Jul 19, 2017)

Crippy said:


> Probably should have bought some cheap beans to practice with too instead of my nice ones


I think practicing with the nice beans that you want to end up using is the way to go. In the short term it costs a bit more but you will be getting better making the kind of coffee you want to drink. No real point getting good at making a drink you don't like.

having said that if your grinder is brand new it will probably need a few kg of beans run through it it get it to settle down. That's when you can use the cheaper beans. My experience with a new grinder was that the resulting grind was very variable until it had been used a bit.

There is no way round it though - to start with it is tough to get a good shot. You just have to figure out where your inconsistencies are (grind, weighing, tamp, temperature, pressure etc) and then bring them under control over time with a bit of experimenting and practice.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

As Mildred said we all go through it at first. I probably went through a few bags of beans before I pulled a decent shot.

Are you using scales and weighing the amount of coffee going in the portafilter and then coming out in the cup? When learning you need to be as consistent as possible so use the same amount of coffee, try and tamp the same each time and aim for the same output like a 2:1 ratio. Make sure you time the extraction so the only thing you'll need to adjust is the grind setting. If the coffee extracts too quick, grind finer and if it takes too long to extract grind coarser. Be patient you will get there.


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## Crippy (Sep 30, 2017)

Haven't been weighing anything or timing.

The grinder has a timer on it so you can choose the grind size then the time for how long you want it to grind for.

The thing that's bothering me is that I can't even get a shot let alone a decent one. It just trickles through and usually more from one spout than the other.

im sure I will get the hang of it soon









ordering a proper tamp today as the one with the Silvia is pointless as it's too small for the basket


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Crippy said:


> Haven't been weighing anything or timing.
> 
> The grinder has a timer on it so you can choose the grind size then the time for how long you want it to grind for.
> 
> ...


Scales are an absolute must! Get the Amir ones off of Amazon they're around £8. You need to know how much coffee is going in the basket depending on your basket size but say 18g then aim for 36g in the cup. Once you have those and your new tamper you'll soon start making decent shots. At the moment you're shooting in the dark.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

All the above has cause and effect. Start with set basics. If you are using a "single" basket, these are notorious for being difficult to get consistent shots.

Use the larger , double basket.

Chose a grind setting but not time, grind until the basket is filled (without any compressing) strike off level( back of a knife), now tamp as firmly as you can with the "crap" tamper going N S E W =Nrrth -South etc. With fully warmed up machine try pulling a shot.(note how long it takes to fill the basket )

It should give you a double shot in 25 - 30 secs ( approx 35 ml) but you really need scales for dry coffee and liquid output)

If this comes through too quickly you need to grind finer.

If it struggles to come through you need to grind coarser.

If time is approximately correct the grind is in the ball park for that bean in that age / condition.

AS OTHERS HAVE SAID WE HAVE ALL BEEN THERE. keep trying and practice


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Crippy said:


> Haven't been weighing anything or timing.
> 
> The grinder has a timer on it so you can choose the grind size then the time for how long you want it to grind for.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Quite a few of us use Amir scales as they're cheap (they come up on amazon prime deals quite often) & weigh to 3000/0.1g & are shallow enouh to fit under the portafilter. Weighing in & out removes 2 variables which will aid you in repeating a decent shot.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

To add to the above advice when warming up your silvia, give it at least 20-30 minutes to get up to temperature and whilst it is doing this do a search on the forum for temp surfing a silvia. Whilst no doubt this is another thing for you to do, you need to start with all your basics covered off (machine up to temp, flushed, back up to temp, Fresh quality beans then ground and weighed into basket, scales put under whatever you are going to catch your espresso in, start to pour) before anyone can really help you to fine tune on a decent cup.

Making espresso is by far and away one of the most complex ways of making coffee and frustrating a lot of the time when starting out. But...when you nail it, and you can get a decent shot out of the silvia with some patience and time, reward is something far better than you can get in the chain coffee shops.

Don't lose heart, we all at some point have been where you are now









John


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Crippy said:


> Probably should have bought some cheap beans to practice with too instead of my nice ones


Only teaches you to make crappy coffee that taste bad , nothing else . Cheap beans are bot the answer .

DO you have scales ? are you weighting the dose , is the dose appropriate to eh baskets size ? How much espresso is being made ( grams ) in how much time .

What is your team surfing routine ( when do you press the button to make the shot start ) . The silva is crap at temp management ( one of the reasons i always say don't get one ) this can can be a major reason in poor espresso but id look at the dose , grind , weigh out first .

What is wrong the the espresso ? Bitter ? weak ?

Yes you absolutely need a new tamper also .

Good luck , been there with the Silvia , It can make good espresso for sure , the rain with it is getting it to do it consistently .


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## Badgerman (Nov 23, 2017)

Just spotted the scales on sale for £7.19 on a lightening deal.


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## Crippy (Sep 30, 2017)

Ok, so now have a scales and tamper. Im defo on the right track now and getting decent espresso's. However...... my milk frothing is p1ss poor. Burning the milk and not getting the required texture.

Is there a good go to vid on how to steam milk correctly.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Crippy said:


> Ok, so now have a scales and tamper. Im defo on the right track now and getting decent espresso's. However...... my milk frothing is p1ss poor. Burning the milk and not getting the required texture.
> 
> Is there a good go to vid on how to steam milk correctly.


A milk thermometer is a boon, ensures you get the same temp time after time!

There are lots of vids, yes. I will have a look and post a link if I find one before I go out


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Different machine, I know, but it should give you an idea:

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?36400&p=474923#post474923


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## Crippy (Sep 30, 2017)

So.... I have my new tamper and scales. Finally on the right track although my coffee still tastes rubbish.

Tastes like Costa... burnt and bitter.

Tonight i measured 16g and output was 32g in 20 seconds which i know is too fast but i thought over extraction causes a bitter taste?

I know i will get there in the end.

I also almost always get the shower screen screw mark in the puck too.

Any suggestions or good videos to learn from?

Thanks


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Crippy said:


> So.... I have my new tamper and scales. Finally on the right track although my coffee still tastes rubbish.
> 
> Tastes like Costa... burnt and bitter.
> 
> ...


Very unlikely you are over-extracting, especially at 1:2 in 20s.

You don't really need a video, you need to grind finer & maybe pull a bit longer.

Bitterness causes a bitter taste, this can have a range of causes, not solely over-extraction.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Very unlikely you are over-extracting, especially at 1:2 in 20s.
> 
> You don't really need a video, you need to grind finer & maybe pull a bit longer.
> 
> Bitterness causes a bitter taste, this can have a range of causes, not solely over-extraction.


Couple of things,

1. remind me, what beans are you using?

2. There needs to be space for the puck to expand. Prepare your puck as you would normally, place a small coin (2p) on top and lock it in the machine. It shouldn't leave a massive dent. If it does, decrease your dose.

Generally over extraction is what leads to bitterness yes, but so can the roast profile/bean. Or it could be channeling - over extracting some parts and under others.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Crippy said:


> So.... I have my new tamper and scales. Finally on the right track although my coffee still tastes rubbish.
> 
> Tastes like Costa... burnt and bitter.
> 
> ...


DOn' think about under or over extraction , describe taste in simple terms.

As said 1:2 in 20 seconds is unlikely to be " over extracted "

What is the coffee again ? What is your temp surfing routine ( when are you hitting the button in relation to the light coming on and off )

Grind finer try to get to at least 25 seconds as a time , don't worry it its more than that.

Taste , if it helps , dilute and little and taste again .


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## Crippy (Sep 30, 2017)

these are the beans:

https://www.olfactorycoffee.co.uk/collections/coffee/products/jackrock-seasonal-espresso

Im measuring out at 16g. Grind number 8 on Sage pro grinder.

Will try a finer grind tomorrow and the penny on top of the puck.

Also, anyone know where i can get a dosing cylinder? Look pretty handy to get lumps out of the grind without making a mess


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Crippy said:


> these are the beans:
> 
> https://www.olfactorycoffee.co.uk/collections/coffee/products/jackrock-seasonal-espresso
> 
> ...


Could try here.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?22400&p=495894#post495894


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Crippy said:


> these are the beans:
> 
> https://www.olfactorycoffee.co.uk/collections/coffee/products/jackrock-seasonal-espresso
> 
> ...


Don't grind into the PF, grind into a cup & give it a shake, then transfer to pf. Lumps in the grind?


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Crippy said:


> these are the beans:
> 
> https://www.olfactorycoffee.co.uk/collections/coffee/products/jackrock-seasonal-espresso
> 
> ...


I take it you mean a pf collar?

If so there are these:

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36715

Or cut a pot down to size


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## Crippy (Sep 30, 2017)

Thanks guys


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Crippy said:


> these are the beans:
> 
> https://www.olfactorycoffee.co.uk/collections/coffee/products/jackrock-seasonal-espresso
> 
> ...


Good coffee you have, cant go wrong


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

I'm not sure how others get on however historically I struggle with Rwandan beans. I find they can be more temperamental than most beans.

Even when extracted well on the naked pf I've only ever found one Rwandan I liked. It's all personal taste though.


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## theothernickh (Oct 9, 2015)

I went through a similar situation recently.

I was surprised at the difference fresh beans made. It was night and day!

That would be the first thing I would look at.

Then try and grind fine and break up any clumps.


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