# need a little help fine tuning the extraction on a Silvia



## lucky13 (Dec 30, 2011)

Hi Guy's,

Just looking for some advice on how to fine tune a little quicker.

I've just received my 1st espresso machine (rancilio silvia), I'm using it along side a rocky grinder and a hasbean 58mm tamper.

The beans i've been using to fine tune were roasted on the 22 of dec, so pretty fresh but not ideal. I have beans less than a week old but don't want to waste them on fine tuning extractions.

I think i've got temperature surfing down after watching some you tube vids.

I've got a 2 ounce (2 x shot glasses with measuring lines on them) extraction out in 27 seconds.

My current issues are:

There are some signs of coffee grinds in the bottom of my espresso cup, which I understand is an indication of an issue somewhere along the line.

The crema is lightish with darker marble effect running through it. I think it may be a little thin, as it can break apart when walking with the cup from the machine to the couch. I don't know if i'm being overly fussy here. My thoughts on this are that maybe it's the age of the beans?

I'm getting ~18g of coffee grounds into the double shot basket.

Oh 1 other thing, the tamp fits nice and tight in the top of the basket, but won't go past the 1st lip, is that correct?

Thanks for any help offered.

Hopefully day 2 of owning the machine will lead to some more progress...


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

A video of your shot prep and subsequent shot would help people on here give some advice


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Personally I would try decreasing the dose to something like 15-16g and try a coarser grind but tamp harder, however every machine/grinder works differently.

It may be that these old beans benefit from a slightly shorter than normal extraction time.

When you do get a shot you love then make sure to remember how you got there and what you changed.

Its never too soon to start developing your pro technique.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

As beans age, they tend to produce less crema in espresso, which means when you measure their volume there will be more liquid to crema in the espresso than with fresher beans.

Instead of measuring the espresso by volume, try weighing it. This should negate differences in the amount of crema due to bean freshness. To start with, aim to produce an espresso that is exactly double the weight of the ground coffee you used to produce it e.g. if you use a 15g dose of ground coffee you would produce 30g of liquid espresso. With older beans, when there is less crema, this will probably be less than 2 fluid ounces but do not worry.


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

The amount you can fit in the basket will depend on the beans and their age. I always fill my basket to the brim and level before tamping. This will help you produce a more even extraction. The Silvia double basket has a ridge and you will not be able to tamp deeper than that. I used to find it was a good reference that the tamp was level. The grinds in the cup are more than likely loose grinds sticking to the bottom of the PF when you are tamping. I always wipe it just before attaching the PF. It's a great machine I've had some other worldly shots from mine. You definitely need to experiment with some different beans though. Good Luck.


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## lucky13 (Dec 30, 2011)

Today I used the beans roasted a few day's ago.

This solved the crema issue straight up and I managed to pull some beautiful espresso. I still have a very small amount of grounds left in the espresso cup, so I think I may just be nit picking.

Thanks to all for the advice.

Unfortunately I don't have the equipment to film my self... maybe the mrs will hold the phone and film... we shall see.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Hi Lucky

I think you have just discovered two of the signs of old beans, fast blonding and the need for a finer grind... hence having to grind so fine that you ended up with grains in your cup.

I agree with the advice to lower the dose. 14g in a double basket is plenty (I used a Silvia for about 8 years until quite recently). I must admit to giggling to myself when I see that roasters are recommending these new huge doses of 20g+. I would too, if I was a roaster









If you can, fit a PID unit to your Silvia, it makes a huuuuuuuge difference to consistency and takes all that silly faff out of making a coffee.

The other thing to say is that in my experience (which may count for little) the Silvia is a little fussy about what you put into it in terms of bean. My Silvia matched my new E61 machine for quality of shot when using fresh quality beans, but it didn't take kindly to more economical blends going in.


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## lucky13 (Dec 30, 2011)

Fantastic feedback.

Not sure I can affort to fit a PID for a while yet.

Adjusted to 14/15g now. Need to tamp a little harder or perhaps adjust the grind as the extraction has got quicker and a little bitter.

I'm loving the Silvia, however... My attempts at frothing milk are bloody terrible!

Either the texture is too thin and it's just milky coffee or it's too thick and won't come out of the jug...

I'm using a 500ml motta jug.

I will keep trying


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Try angling the wand in so that the jet of steam will hit a sort of glancing blow on the side of the jug in order to make the milk spin. Lower the tip into the milk and raise it until you hear that sucking sound you get just before the tip comes out of the milk...this isn't actually where you want the tip, you want it slightly lower so that the sucking sound just disappears.

The key is to get the milk to spin in a circular motion round and round the edge of the jug. When the jug becomes too hot to bear, sink the wand in as you turn the steam off to avoid bubbles, and then waggle the jug to spin the milk round. It should be like wet paint.

Re: extraction. If you can afford £25, go to Happy Donkey and order a bottomless portafilter. You will see straight away if you are getting an even pour, and any faults in your loading and tamping will show themselves as little jets pissing out all over the place, or parts of the basket having coffee pour through and others not. This is channelling, and causes the coffee to run too fast, making you thing that you need to grind finer when in fact it is loading and tamping causing the issue.

If you get a fast pour, check your puck afterwards for little holes on the surface, often round the edges. This is channelling and if you are getting this, maybe trying the WDT technique and pay attention getting a level tamp.

Apologies if you know all this already.

P.s you can return the favour by finding out how to make acidic coffees taste nice in espresso and letting me know


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Just keep with it, making small changes to what you are doing and it will all fall into place, watch out for technique vids on the likes of YouTube which can be most helpful when learning.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Expobarista said:


> ...
> 
> P.s you can return the favour by finding out how to make acidic coffees taste nice in espresso and letting me know


I struggled with acidic espresso for ages until finally working it out. These coffees are often quite dense and so benefit from a finer grind and also longer contact time with the brew water. I found that producing a more ristretto shot with a lower dose, finer grind and short brew ratio combined with a slightly longer extraction time produced lots of sweetness that balances out the acidity. I found 32 seconds seems to be a magic number - any less and it starts getting sour.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

jimbow said:


> I struggled with acidic espresso for ages until finally working it out. These coffees are often quite dense and so benefit from a finer grind and also longer contact time with the brew water. I found that producing a more ristretto shot with a lower dose, finer grind and short brew ratio combined with a slightly longer extraction time produced lots of sweetness that balances out the acidity. I found 32 seconds seems to be a magic number - any less and it starts getting sour.


This post blows my mind...

Loser dose, finer grind, longer extraction = better shot from denser coffees. Probably saved me years of playing around.

How low a dose are we talking?


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## mike 100 (Jul 15, 2010)

Have a look at the videos at http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com and also http://www.metropoliscoffee.com well worth a look. Seattle have a number of videos that are Silvia related, they will help you get the best from your machine and also help you look after it.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> ...
> 
> How low a dose are we talking?


With these sorts of beans I usually start with 14g of ground coffee producing 23g of espresso in 32 seconds. I then adjust according to taste and tend to increase the dose as the beans age.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks Jim

I've made a couple of shots of Red Brick today. The first was too acidic to have more than a couple of sips, but the aftertaste was wonderful...like a mouthful of just-ripe cherries.

This evening's shot had a finer grind, and was much better, but still not right.


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## lucky13 (Dec 30, 2011)

Finally, this morning I think I managed my 1st (ugly) textured milk drink... Had to use skimmed milk as it was the only one left









http://t.co/Ko5G78Bc

http://t.co/rvv9JLqE

Thanks for the advice it really helped.

A naked portafilter will be on next months shopping list. I know my tamps aren't always even as the extraction isn't the same between the two shot glasses. Think i need to tone down the pressure and concentrate on accuracy.

Now to work on making it look pretty...


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