# Intermittent flow/pressure issues



## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

Hi,

ive been having an issue lately with my baby gaggia. Sometimes ( normally the second cup) appears to struggle to flow. Nothing seems to come out for around 10 seconds and then I get a very slow dribble of espresso flowing through. The pump doesn't sound like it is struggling, the noise from the pump appears to be the same as before.

i also get condensation behind the buttons after each use. It may have always done this though?

i have changed my coffee so I'm not sure if this could be the issue? I'm now buying ground coffee from Pact.

i wipe the shower disc multiple times along with rinsing clean water through after each use. I last used a de scaler roughly a month ago.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Nick


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

So many questions...

First thing, Pre ground is the devils work, you will always struggle to get good coffee unless you are grinding right before you're pulling a shot, plus it needs to be dialled in for your machine and for the bean, Can you raise the cash to pick up a grinder?

What basket are you using, pressurised or not?

Even though you have descaled, you could still have some scale stuck in your solenoid, i think the baby has one?

What type of tamper are you using?

What water are you using, tap, bottled or filtered?

10 seconds is not that bad for first drops, because its pre ground it could be ground a little too tight and causing your machine to choke, try tamping a little less to see if this fixes it.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

That was going to be my question, is the basket a pressurised or normal? Usually pre-ground is too coarse, so this is odd, but Pact pre-ground might be ground finer than the previous coffee the OP was using. Pre-ground is a lottery, where first prize is an acceptable cup of coffee. The shot times won't tell you much if you're using a pressurised basket (which you may need to if using pre-ground though). Also, how much coffee are you putting in the basket? If too much, it could stall the extraction.


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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

Hi,

thanks for both replies, sorry for the long delay.

i can't stretch to a grinder just yet but I'll look into that.

The ground coffee from pact does seem very fine, almost dusty. I contacted them and they said they'll send my next bag as a "stovetop" grind rather than espresso as its coarser. I'm yet to test. Would this be right?

sorry for the lack of knowledge, I'm not sure if it's a pressurised basket but I think it is? I use all of the standard equipment that came with it. I'm using the 2 cup rather than 1 cup basket. I place 2 scoops of coffee in the basket using the scoop provided and tamper it with the plastic tamper provided.

i always use Britta filtered water.

i believe it does have a solenoid. You can hear this move by half pressing the pump button, then the pump starts when fully pressed in. I've just done 2 consecutive descales today. During this, I noticed the more I make the solenoid move, the more black flakey bits come out whilst cleaning. I had the drip tray removed during this to fit a jug under. Only on the second descale did I notice water flow from the back of the machine down to where the drip tray spout would insert at the rear of the tray. Maybe something was clogged before? The machine was in storage for 3 years following a couple of house moves.

i spent TWO hours doing both of these cleans until it finally ran clear. The more I made the solenoid move, the more tiny black bits/flakes came out. Not loads each time, but a few in the bottom of the jug on every flush. So I was pressing the button on/off to make the solenoid move around 10 times and then running the pump to flush through. I did this over and over until it was finally clear. Maybe it was clogged up? But I thought lime scale was white not black? There were also some bits behind the shower disc, but this doesn't explain my issues as sometimes it ran fine, others it didn't. Right at the end of cleaning the pump did sound quieter.

should I be worried about condensation inside and also a bit of water running from the inside of the machine down onto the outside of the unit? See picture. Also get some sitting along the bottom edge of the outer casing. Do I have a leak inside or do they all do this?

I've attached a picture of the dripping water and a picture of the supplied equipment that I use to help.

thanks again,

Nick


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I recall someone joining the forum to say they were having trouble with pre ground pact coffee chocking their machine, , maybe it is ground too finely

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?24123-Using-gaggia-Classic&highlight=pact


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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

Thanks for that, just had a read.

maybe it is the grind then? I didn't realise expressing coffee was so technical :/ as a novice who bought a machine just to enjoy a nicer brew, I'm starting to realise now that there's a little more to it. I used to buy Tesco extra special range ( I think that's the name?). They do seem to be a much coarser grind and worked fine. Also used Illy which was fine.

I went to pact because of a couple of deals I had and the fact they were freshly ground the day or day before posting, so still fresh. I'll see how I get on with their " stovetop" grind rather than espresso.

is it because I have a slightly cheaper machine ( if you can call £300 cheap), that it can't hack enough pressure to press through a finer grind?

any thoughts on my potential leaks?

i assume a descale and general wipe down is the only maintenance I really need to undertake?

thanks,

Nick


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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

Would someone mind posting a link to the " I just bought a gaggia" thread please? I have a browse and used the search but I can't find it :/

thanks


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

cant really tell where the leak might be coming from from the photo. It may just be a loose connection of a pipe inside or it could be a gasket \ seal.

Does the leak resemble this one ? This was a leak I had, , it was just a loose connection






Heres the link you requested

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?3858-So-you%92ve-just-bought-your-Gaggia-Classic


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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

Thanks again for the help given.

Yes that's where the leak is coming from. It's leaking at a much slower rate than this, but I'd still rather sort it. Please could you tell me how u fixed this loose connection?

thanks,

Nick


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Hi Nick,

My machine was brand new so I got Gaggia to collect it from me and they replaced it with a new machine under warranty. They did get in touch with me to let me know that it was simply a bad connection of one of the pipes inside. It seems the pipes are just push fits now or simple tension clips. In my opinion they should use jubilee clips, but they probably dont due to keeping costs down.

My leak wasnt as fast to start with as in the video, but it got worse over time. I did take the top off to look inside to see if I could detect where the leak was coming from, but couldnt see it. You may have better eyesight !

Now, im not saying it is a poor connection of a pipe, just that it is highly likely. The other reason is a faulty gasket or seal on the boiler somewhere.

Here is a picture showing the pipes just pushed on to their connections with no tension clips used and also you can see a tension clip on one of the pipes in the photo. You could try fitting the right sized jubilee clips to the pipes you think the leak is coming from and maybe changing the tension clips over to jubilee clips.


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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

Hi,

Thanks again for the great help. I can't work out how to remove the top cover, I can't find any screws it looks sealed?

On another note, my original issue still exists. I now know it's not the coffee grind. Also unsure if it's scale as I spent 2 hours doing 2 thorough descales.

this morning I brewed an espresso fine with the pact coffee. Afterwards, I did my usual wipe down and a few rinses. During the rinses, the water just dribbled out again. So this time, there's no basket in place to choke the machine. So I'm now certain it's not the grind of coffee causing this and it's still completely intermittent.

Ive posted it on YouTube so that you can see how slowly it flows. You can see there's just multiple drips rather than a slow steady flow.






Thanks,

Nick


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

you need to remove the whole casing, I believe it is secured from under the water tank and underneath the top half near the group.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

How much coffee were you using in the basket btw


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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

2 scoops using the scoop provided. When lightly tampered it half fills the basket.

the poor flow seen in the video is with no basket in place so it's not the coffee stopping it..

the amount of water flow I'm missing isn't leaking out from anywhere else so if I took it apart, apart from looking for the very slight leak I may have, I'm not sure what I'm looking for to fix the bigger issue.

Thanks,

Nick


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Chestnutree said:


> 2 scoops using the scoop provided. When lightly tampered it half fills the basket.
> 
> the poor flow seen in the video is with no basket in place so it's not the coffee stopping it..
> 
> ...


Get some scales 0.1g

Weight your dose

16 g to start

Excessive amounts of coffee will choke the machine also


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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Get some scales 0.1g
> 
> Weight your dose
> 
> ...


Hi,

Thanks again for replying.

My issue doesn't appear to be the coffee choking the machine.

The issue shown in the video above is the machine struggling without any coffee or basket placed under it. It is just water running through the shower disk and nothing else ( which was removed and cleaned before this video ) yet it's struggling.

any ideas?

Thanks,

Nick


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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

Just tried to use it this morning, not looking good









Rather than being intermittent, it's now a permanent issue. I always rinse water through without any basket in place before I use it and it's hardly coming through at all. It's running even slower now than in the first video I posted







help!


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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)




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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

Removed - duplicate


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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?6550-Baby-Gaggia-Poor-water-flow

this sounds like it could be related, as it did happen after using the pact coffee which I said was very dusty. I didn't realise coffee/water went back up into the machine? Is that true in my case?

i forgot to mention, I do get water through the steam wand without an issue.

is it safe to run the machine and then blast air back into it?


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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

So I managed to take it apart. 2 screws under the water tank, 2 underneath the casing near the group head and one under the steam knob.

so I've found my leak, it's around the base of the boiler. Can I get a new gasket and can I replace it myself?

the more the pressure builds up, the more it leaks. I.e. When trying to pump water with it apparently blocked, or when I turn on the steam button to heat it up more.

While I had everything apart, although to start with I still hardly had any flow, it did randomly start flowing freely again. Could the boiler leaking have created a lot of gunk inside, like what is seen on the outside of the leaking area? Thus creating a blockage?

i tried this back flushing thing. Whilst blocking the hole in the group head myself, I ran the pump, stopped.... Nothing flowed out of the back into the drip tray? I kept doing it over and over, also just clicking the solenoid by half pressing the button. Eventually I got a bit of back flow come through into the back of the drip tray. But only once.

so I'm wondering, do I have 3 issues here?

Faulty solenoid preventing back flow?

blown boiler gasket ( possibly because of the pressure due to no back flow?)

blockage inside the boiler where the water would flow through the group head?

looking for confirmations on my findings and assistance with resolving. I may have taken it all apart but I still don't really know what I'm doing. I love my machine and can't afford a new one right now.

thanks again,

Nick


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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

Scrap the back flush comment. After having the steam button on, back flush shot through into the drip tray without an issue. So maybe the brewing temperature isn't enough to cause a back flush and I just didn't read up on how to do it properly?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

It looks as if you have a leak from the S/valve along one of the fixing pins /bolts, also a leak from the main boiler seal and along one of the boiler securing bolts judging by the corrosion.

On photo No 3 it is difficult to see clearly but that looks like a short crack vertically with corrosion by it.

To dismantle you will need a set of allen keys ,the corroded boiler bolt may need some (penetrating oil ) to help release the bolt, take care not to shear it off if tight. Applying heat may help to release it. After dismantling you will be able to asses any seals / parts you will need.


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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

Wow, so many seals! Thought there would only be one.

by looking in person, it looks like it is just the base of the boiler but due to the pressure it just spreads it everywhere making it look like it is leaking from other places too. I guess a video would have made it easier to tell.

looks like a few hours of work then. I'm scared taking so many bolts and wires off I just hope I write down correctly where they all go!


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Take plenty of photo's from varying angles to cover all connections, you can also mark cable ends and connections with "sharpies" =coloured pens, this will help with rebuilding.

Lay items out in order as you dismantle.


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## Chestnutree (Jun 16, 2015)

Hi all,

Just to update and let you know that my machine has been working fine ever since I replaced the boiler gasket and gave the inside of the boiler a good clean. No more leaks, steam behind buttons or pressure issues.

I'm pretty certain the pressure issue was to do with the coffee grind. After the repair I did try the " espresso grind" again from pact and on occasion it did loose pressure/flow. I think what's happening is when you stop the pump and it releases pressure through the back, it is sucking up some of the coffee dust with it and blocking my machine. A proper back flush clears it.

Pact " stovetop grind" has been fine.

Nick


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