# How snug should the tamper fit?



## garydyke1

My current equipment is a Happy Donkey tamper and Gaggia Classic standard 58mm basket (again from Happy Donkey).

The tamper measures 57mm, the basket 58-59mm.

When tamping there is 1.2mm+ coffee left round the edges.

I am looking to upgrade to a Torr tamper which comes in either 58mm or 58mm+. The 58mm would still leave 0.6mm gap round the edges but the 58+ would be a truely snug fit.

Which one would be best??

n.b - I emailed Cafe Culture and they recommended 58mm Convex base and suggested that modulation of loose coffee and edge sealing is better achieved with a ''slight gap'', they steered me away from the 58+. Problem is they dont know just how big my basket is, the 58mm would probably still leave a significant gap!


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## Fran

Hi Gary, I'm in exactly the same situation - Classic with HD basket & HD tamper, which is *slightly* too small. I'm mulling over if the size mismatch will have any effect on the espresso. At the moment, after the first tamp, I either give the PF a good slap to dislodge the 'uncompressed rim' and retamp, or use a paperclip to move the rim into the centre and then retamp. How do you currently cope?

Is it really worth the cost of a new tamper? I don't know!


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## garydyke1

I currently let the weight of the tamper push the grind down, add a little pressure, then do a NSEW , then a final harder press down and polish. I used to tap the p'filter until the edges fell in but sometimes cracks would appear = not good.

Looking at spent pucks I sometimes see the edges on the bottom are darker than the middle, leads me to believe an un-even extraction has occured.

My shots are good 60-70% of the time. I truely believe a better fitting tamper should produce better results, if not then at least another variable has been fixed.

I tried using a friends bottomless portfilter using the above technique, it didnt spray everywhere but the shots were consistantly bitter and occasionally would come out in 2 jets rather than one!


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## Glenn

0.6mm is not much of a gap and should be barely noticeable

If the fit is too snug you run the risk of dislodging the grinds with any errant movements

Try to distribute before pressing down and see if that helps with the current tamper


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## MonkeyHarris

I've got a 58.5mm tamper and all my baskets are 58mm so the fit is as snug as it gets. The only problem is you will get the odd stray grinds getting jammed in-between the tamper and basket. Then it's difficult to get it out again without dislodging the rest of the grinds. The trick is to just let the tamper weight push the grinds down a bit the remove and wipe any strays from the edge with your finger then tamp with pressure. This always works for me and I never get any side channeling or mess around the edges.


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## garydyke1

View attachment 554
View attachment 555


some pictures


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## garydyke1

View attachment 556


one more. These pics are just to highlight the current gap


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## garydyke1

MonkeyHarris said:


> I've got a 58.5mm tamper and all my baskets are 58mm so the fit is as snug as it gets. The only problem is you will get the odd stray grinds getting jammed in-between the tamper and basket. Then it's difficult to get it out again without dislodging the rest of the grinds. The trick is to just let the tamper weight push the grinds down a bit the remove and wipe any strays from the edge with your finger then tamp with pressure. This always works for me and I never get any side channeling or mess around the edges.


Interesting, thanks for the input.


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## vintagecigarman

There is a perfect solution, but it's expensive! If you mail your basket to Reg Barber they will make a tamper that fits it perfectly. :>)))

That said, I sometimes wonder how good the tolerance is on baskets as they come from the manufacturer - even on commercial ones.


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## DavidS

Why not get a new basket, rather than tamper? A tamper will be ten times the price of a basket!!

Either way, theres no problem with a slight gap, but that does seem larger than normal...


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## MonkeyHarris

I had a 57mm tamper before and the gap it left at the edges looked exactly the same as yours so you might get away with a 58+. I just couldn't stand the grinds clinging to the edges at all so I wanted a perfect fit. In the mean time look up the nutate style tamp. This is what I used to do before I got the current one and it worked well.


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## MikeHag

vintagecigarman said:


> There is a perfect solution, but it's expensive! If you mail your basket to Reg Barber they will make a tamper that fits it perfectly. :>))).


I asked this question before but didn't get an answer: What happens with a custom-fitted tamper when you subsequently change your basket? Surely it's now just a tamper, not a custom one?


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## Glenn

That's exactly what it will be.


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## garydyke1

I dont fancy shelling out for a full custom, however I want a generic sized one which will fit any 58mm basket. It appears:

58 will fit

58+ will also fit.

Either one will require slightly differing tamp styles/techniques....

58+ may fit my current basket better, however I may end up with another 58mm basket at some stage in the future which is a little smaller.

So 58 may be more 'future proof' although a compromise on my current set-up.


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## MonkeyHarris

Just to confuse matters a bit more... I have 4 58mm baskets from 3 different manufacturers and my 58.5 fits them all.


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## vintagecigarman

Just re-discovered this in Rao's 'Professional Barista's Handbook':

"I have so far found the ideal gap between tamper and basket to be 5/1000th of an inch, ie a difference of 10/1000th (0.25mm)."


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## garydyke1

vintagecigarman said:


> Just re-discovered this in Rao's 'Professional Barista's Handbook':
> 
> "I have so far found the ideal gap between tamper and basket to be 5/1000th of an inch, ie a difference of 10/1000th (0.25mm)."


Wow , that is a tight tollorance. Think Ill shoot for the 58+ then!

Cheers all for the input


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## PaulN

garydyke1 said:


> View attachment 554
> View attachment 555
> 
> 
> some pictures


I hope you brush off the excess... lol I have the same kit as you and find i do a few light tamps around the edges not even using the weight of the tamper then one true tamp in the centre does the trick. I do use the WDT before tamping though.

Another question is that a single basket? Looks pretty full to be a double? With a double basket and 16.6g grind My tampers angle is in line with the top of my basket by the time in done.

Cheers

PaulN


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## PaulN

Whats the next standard size up i could quite easily turn the OD down to fit a basket here at work.... lol When i say me i mean our tool shop chap as my hands are too smooth to use machines......

Measuring the ID of the basket would need a vernier to measure close enough.


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## garydyke1

PaulN said:


> I hope you brush off the excess... lol I have the same kit as you and find i do a few light tamps around the edges not even using the weight of the tamper then one true tamp in the centre does the trick. I do use the WDT before tamping though.
> 
> Another question is that a single basket? Looks pretty full to be a double? With a double basket and 16.6g grind My tampers angle is in line with the top of my basket by the time in done.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> PaulN


Yep, normally wipe of the excess haha.

It is a double basket. Gets overfilled, excess levelled off, ends up weighing about 16-17g. After the final tamp it almost lines up.

The pics were just to show the gap , that isnt a normal prep for a shot.


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## garydyke1

PaulN said:


> Whats the next standard size up i could quite easily turn the OD down to fit a basket here at work.... lol When i say me i mean our tool shop chap as my hands are too smooth to use machines......
> 
> Measuring the ID of the basket would need a vernier to measure close enough.


Its either 58 or 58+. The 58+ is 58.4-58.6 depending on how the wind blows, cant get a clear answer from Cafe-Kultur/TORR/Pasmarose.


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## BanishInstant

I had the HD 57mm and replaced it with a 58mm convex - I am much happier with the new one.


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## AndyL

Here's my ten pence worth. I also use the HD tamper 58mm in the standard Gaggia double basket and like you there is a gap of course. I personally haven't found issue with this since I improved my technique somewhat. I always let the tamp do the work first and settle evenly in the basket with the addition of a NSEW movement, then apply pressure. At this point I was tapping the side of the PF with the tamper to free the grinds that accumulate up the side of the basket but like others realised this wasn't the way to go and now use a 1/4" paint brush around the inside edge of the PF which works fantastically. I then flip the PF over and lose the loose coffee and finish with a final polish. Having said all that it would be interesting to see how things pan out whichever way you decide to go.


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## garydyke1

Andy - I got a TORR 58+ Convex, it fits perfectly in both Baskets I have ,and, the results are noticably better!


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## AndyL

Oh that's great, I will have to have a look at that for myself. thanks for letting me know. A


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## altyris

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but this seems to be relevant to the question I currently have. I am having the same doubts about the tamper I got, which was from HD (with the usual 57mm advertised)but upon measuring it, I think I have one with a diameter of about 56-56.5mm. I've included a pic to help illustrate the size in relation to the filter basket. To me, this gap is too big: can anyone offer their thoughts?

For information, the tamper is almost flush with the rim of the PF and the gap you can see is consistent around the whole basket (though it doesn't seem that way from the photo!).

Cheers everyone


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## MikeHag

That looks a typical gap for the HD tamper, although if it's that big all the way around then that's exceptionally large. They're a poor fit in my opinion. We see it again and again... people start with a HD tamper because they're relatively cheap (I did), but it's usually only a few months before they find that they've ironed out a lot of other weaknesses in their technique and now need a better fitting tamper.


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## altyris

Ah it is as I thought then! Thanks for the help - looks like I'm saving for both a grinder and a tamper in the coming months in that case. Are there any recommendations you would kind enough to make? There is of course the RB and other £50+ tampers but that is a little on the pricey side for the time being...


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## MikeHag

I haven't come across a mid-price tamper that I'd be willing to risk wasting money on. Personally I've waited until I was prepared to pay £70. It's really surprising how little is out there.


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## garydyke1

altyris said:


> Ah it is as I thought then! Thanks for the help - looks like I'm saving for both a grinder and a tamper in the coming months in that case. Are there any recommendations you would kind enough to make? There is of course the RB and other £50+ tampers but that is a little on the pricey side for the time being...


I can highly recommend Torr via Pasmarose, I love mine!


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## chimpsinties

Thought I'd share my experience with the Classic basket and my Rocket 58mm Tamper

Pt 1 of 2

Straight from the grinder 19g of Ethiopian Harrier from CoffeeBeanShop.co.uk (Just Look at those clumps)










Evened out and flattened off with the back of a knife










Tamper rested on top (quite snug but could be tighter, probably about 0.5mm all around










Tamper removed so you can see whats left in the gap


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## chimpsinties

Pt 2 of 2

After full tamp & polish










I usually just blow the excess off into the sink










Ahhh, the resulting 32g of coffee goodness


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## thomss

Looks nice. I've been grinder some beans and then gently tapping the PF of my tamping mat and then grinder some more and then using a fork to move it around a little and wipe away any excess (Not much at all) a good firm tamp and polish a little blow in to the sink to get any grinds off the edges and its ready to go.


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## JohnnieWalker

I have the HD bottomless PF, a new shower screen, also from HD and an Espresso Gear Luce 58mm Tamper which has a convex base.

Surely the shape of the shower screen is important when selecting the type of tamper, as well as the diameter.

My replacement shower screen isn't flat like the original, it has a slight convex shape to it, so in my opinion this tamper matches my setup better than a flat base tamper.

I also think the Espresso gear Luce is good value and a great tamper without paying silly money.


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## MikeHag

JohnnieWalker said:


> My replacement shower screen isn't flat like the original, it has a slight convex shape to it, so in my opinion this tamper matches my setup better than a flat base tamper.


Nice looking tamper and fit. Are you getting better results? Better tasting espresso?


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## JohnnieWalker

Yes Mike, in the last few weeks my shots have improved dramatically, obviously my technique and understanding is much better, largely due to the help and advice from the members here!

This is the video I posted on G+: http://yfrog.us/nflljz

Although not perfect, I'm very happy with the results, especially considering my relatively small budget setup, I was also pleasantly surprised that my grind and tamp must be reasonably ok to produce pretty decent results, I was expecting much worse!

I may look at getting the Sylvia wand, but to be honest I think I would have to spend several hundred pounds to improve my setup, and I can keep improving my skills with practice.

The fresh beans I got from Hands-On-Coffee are great, but as I've mentioned elsewhere, I personally didn't find a huge difference in the quality and taste of my shots compared to a freshly opened tin of costa beans, although maybe I just need to develop my tastebuds!


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## MikeHag

JohnnieWalker said:


> in the last few weeks my shots have improved dramatically, obviously my technique and understanding is much better





JohnnieWalker said:


> as I've mentioned elsewhere, I personally didn't find a huge difference in the quality and taste of my shots compared to a freshly opened tin of costa beans, although maybe I just need to develop my tastebuds!


Thanks for this, Johnnie. I really appreciate the way you're providing almost a step-by-step account of your learning process. It's very useful for others taking the same journey. Your above two posts are similar to what I experienced around the same stage you're at... visibly better technique (and also better equipment helping out) but not enough experience in tasting to distinguish A from Z. It should come naturally in time, but I believe you can easily and quickly train your palate to begin recognising differences/characteristics, and from then on it *really *gets interesting









There are many ways to do it... For me the essence of getting it started is to have a day, or 2 days, where you drink more coffee or espresso than you're used to drinking... each one being somehow different. For example, make 5 or 6 shots concurrently... the first one 14g, then 15g then 16g, 17g, 18g and 19g. OR, if you don't have scales, try 15 seconds, 18 seconds, 21s, 24s, 27s and 30s. Or maybe 0.5oz, 0.75oz, etc etc.

They will hopefully each taste different... especially if you consciously think about what you're seeing, tasting and smelling. Colour, Mouthfeel, Body (e.g. light/heavy?), Taste (sweet/sour/bitter/salt), and then the all important aromas... the fruits, nuts, etc etc. You probably won't get any of the latter immediately, but maybe by the end you'll get something that you think might be more than just 'coffee'! That's the start. The door is open. Brilliant.

Keep up the good work


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## chimpsinties

MikeHag said:


> For example, make 5 or 6 shots concurrently... the first one 14g, then 15g then 16g, 17g, 18g and 19g. OR, if you don't have scales, try 15 seconds, 18 seconds, 21s, 24s, 27s and 30s. Or maybe 0.5oz, 0.75oz, etc etc.


I was just thinking about this the other day. I measure out usually 18g on my digtial scales and I'll even take out one or two beans if I get 18.1g









Then when I grid them coffee goes everywhere as the PF starts to get full, on the grinder, on the counter etc. Then a bit more inevitably falls out as it even them out with my bent safety pin, then maybe a bit more falls out as I level the top with a knife. Eventually I guess there's a couple of grams of coffee on the counter and not in my PF. I wonder how much I'm actually brewing with? I can only imagine others are the same as me. Very accurate measurements only to screw it up by being messy


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## Phil66

I have a similar "issue". My basket is 59mm and my tamper is 57.8. Should I go for a bigger one?

Thanks


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## Mad Wally

Phil66 said:


> I have a similar "issue". My basket is 59mm and my tamper is 57.8. Should I go for a bigger one?
> 
> Thanks


5 year old thread:coffee:


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## hotmetal

Lol yeah zombie thread alert! The answer is yes though Phil. Get a tamper 58.35 or thereabouts. They're a bit more expensive than the bog standard ones (Knock Heft 58.35 maybe £35-40 these days? Torr 58.4 maybe even more, 58.55 =£££) but it needs to fit well enough to not need "N-S-E-W" motion to seal the edges.


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