# Upgrading to the Barista Touch



## Rickster1978 (Jan 12, 2019)

I currently have the Barista Express but I'm thinking about upgrading to the Barista Touch as I can get it for £550 from Costco with the free gift pack which has some useful extras.

Just wondering if people see it as a worthwhile upgrade?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Don't think it's really an upgrade as such. You're just paying extra for the touchscreen automation.


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

- the grinder and brew group are the same
- the heat up time is rapid on the Touch and the steam is much more powerful
- the Touch has 9 bar OPV
- the Express has the pressure gauge and you can play with pre-infusion time

So the main advantage of the Touch is stronger steam and 9 bar pressure but you lose control over pre-infusion and the gauge.

Not much of a upgrade. A Barista Pro or Dual Boiler would be a better upgrade. My personal opinion is to try to come off the sage grinders. Their quality is v poor.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

Rickster1978 said:


> I currently have the Barista Express but I'm thinking about upgrading to the Barista Touch as I can get it for £550 from Costco with the free gift pack which has some useful extras.
> 
> Just wondering if people see it as a worthwhile upgrade?


 I have the touch, very good beginners machine, milk frothing is very good. I'm not sure it would be much of an upgrade to what you have apart from the touchscreen.

I'm amazed Costco have it for £550, my local stores its £649..


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## Rickster1978 (Jan 12, 2019)

Maybe I'm just getting carried away by it being a good price rather than it being an actual upgrade. Maybe a case of saving a bit longer for the Oracle


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The grinder appears to be the same as the BE other than time setting assuming that it's set by "Touch". Given how sage handle the actual grind setting changes at the burrs it's rather hard to be sure step size is the same as the BE. The manual shows a setting of 14 on one and 15 on the other.

Have you measured the OPV pressure setting on the Touch? My impression is that they all work the same way as they always have.

Both use 1680w thermojets so steam power is likely to be identical. The BE wattage from memory is higher than the DTP, probably because one has a grinder built in.

Personally I would pay the going rate for a touch screen. The manual isn't that clear about what touch adds over buttons but maybe it's easier for some one to steam milk,

£550 is probably enough for a useful grinder upgrade.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Rickster1978 said:


> Maybe I'm just getting carried away by it being a good price rather than it being an actual upgrade. Maybe a case of saving a bit longer for the Oracle


 A DB is an upgrade. That's what is in the Oracle as well.

John

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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

As others have said I don't think this is much of an upgrade.

I have a Barista Pro (same internals as the touch) and I wouldn't say it was any upgrade on a BE.

IMHO the best thing you can do is upgrade the grinder. The sage grinder is ok, I quite like the flavour I get out of a dark roast in the morning with it. (which is what the hopper currently contains)

But its pants for a lighter roast/single origin. There is very little clarity in the cup and the grinder is too inconsistent. Just an effect of a small conical grinder.

I personally went for a Mignon Manuale. A steal at £190.

I now have the BP grinder set for the early morning cup of dark roast. And the Manuale next to it for the late morning espresso/milk drinks with lighter roasts


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## Rickster1978 (Jan 12, 2019)

Thank you all for your comments. I'm now wondering if my money would be better spent on a new grinder instead. I may do a bit more research on that area.


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

I'm currently look at a second grinder, as @TomHughes says the sage one is "ok" but I know the machine can produce s much better shot with better grinds..


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Dalerst said:


> I'm currently look at a second grinder, as @TomHughes says the sage one is "ok" but I know the machine can produce s much better shot with better grinds..


 It really can. 
But as I say it does depend on what you are wanting from the coffee and what coffee you are using.

If you are using a darker roast, lets say Monsooned Malabar (as this was the example I think John has used) then the sage grinder will do a fine job. Its not a complex bean with a complex flavour. The conical burrs will do a good job of grinding it with little retention.

However if you are trying to extract precise flavours from a single origin light roast this grinder will not do that. I think some would even question a better quality conical grinders ability (such as the niche) to do that well.

James Hoffman for one talks a lot about clarity with light roasts and flat vs burr grinders.

That being said my La Pavoni Flat burr grinder which has 64mm burrs did do best out of hopper dosing, so there is that variable too.

If (Like me) you drink a mix of darker roasts and SO and milk drinks then having the two grinder setup is ideal.


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

TomHughes said:


> It really can.
> But as I say it does depend on what you are wanting from the coffee and what coffee you are using.
> 
> If you are using a darker roast, lets say Monsooned Malabar (as this was the example I think John has used) then the sage grinder will do a fine job. Its not a complex bean with a complex flavour.
> ...


 I'm currently using a medium roast Brazilian from a local roaster to me, but would like to try some lighter roast.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Some people have used the SGP for lighter roasts and been happy.  One sold it because the grinder's speed varied so assumed it was struggling. No, it's a characteristic of the motor etc that they use and nothing to worry about. Then there are Oracle users. I didn't put any true light roasts through it but plenty of variations of medium. One so called special roast of MM was rather light - hopeless to drink though. I'm not inclined to put that down to the grinder.

Initially I put all sorts through the BE grinder with it's hopper on using the timer. That is not easy to set up at all when beans are changed so it finished up with 2nd crack monsooned in it all of the time. That can be tuned to provide a mix of flavours or pushed in one particular direction which is what I do as that is how I like it. My wife prefers it pushed in a different direction, a more traditional one. It can be brewed for a mix of tastes. Medium roast MM is a different animal. It needs a good bean and the right level of roast. It then gets rather complex taste wise. I couldn't find a roaster that produced it consistently enough and one well known source was useless - the one I mentioned. Odd batches from another were great,

So bought an SGP and used it purely for weighing in on beans I wanted to try. I sold it with a warning about grinding beans coated in oil. Might do 20 weighed in shots before choking. No problems with any other beans I used and no problems getting the taste they should have. In fact for 3 very distinct taste sensations using Mandhelling. I haven't matched it on the DB with any grinder I have used since. That one like some others is a rather strong bean that brewed the normal way wont match cupping notes. It needs a considerably weaker final drink. Forget it in milk brewed that way.

New grinders will never provide the best clarity they can until the burrs have run in.

One thing I did find on both Sage grinders is cleaning it out especially the grind chamber - don't. Leave the compacted grinds that build up in the grind chamber as long as possible. The carry over when a bean is changes is slight and gone after a couple of doses so waste grinds or drink it. Changing the grinder setting also disturbs it. What's going on is that the surface of the compacted grinds is being renewed all of the time.  When I cleaned mine for the 2nd time I didn't tighten the nut enough got loads of fines and broke the grinder. At least that is what I think broke it. Then bought a refurbished DB.

Comments from James and similar, maybe but don't forget that tuning can be changed. Actually I think a lot of this is often repeated theory that doesn't have much bearing in practice and differences are largely down to other reasons not the type of burrs. It's looking that way with Niche for me at the moment. A true light roast I have tried mentions cocoa something that should be easy on conical - it isn't. Green apple and blackcurret ( sharp final taste) is easy. One miss fire bought out cocoa and pushed green apple into the back ground. Need more beans. 250g wasn't enough. Interesting subject - just how apparent should the different tastes be. Cocoa is mentioned last, A mildly fruity medium was no problem at all. Can't say I like using the can really but I feel grinders have to be judged on an all round balance. It makes other aspects much easier.

John

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## Rjmc01 (Jun 17, 2021)

We have Touch - great machine for our first foray into coffee machines - screen is quick and intuitive showing drink defaults which can be customised and saved such as grind time, milk froth setting, milk temp, brew time etc grind setting set by turnwheel on side , cleaning and other maintenance tasks guided via screen and simple clear instructions. Now getting barista quality drinks with great beans from local supplier. Express nay have pressure gauge but once you learn how to tamp coffee not an issue - we rarely over or under extract now - latte art also improving with great froth from steamer which can be operated in manual mode or fully automatic mode stopping when temp hits set value


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Rjmc01 said:


> Express may have pressure gauge but once you learn how to tamp coffee not an issue


 Agreed. The pressure gauge isn't worth much past the very beginning. It's useful for newbies (like I was) to understand the machine is working/how it works, that you get one low pressure with pre-infusion and then a higher one with the actual pour, but outside that you'll never look at it again unless the machine breaks and then it maybe becomes an indicator (you'll know you're not getting any pressure, or low pressure constantly for instance).

Basically if you're not brand new, don't factor 'has pressure gauge' into the calculation.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I found the pressure gauge very useful to make the volumetrics work as they should. It's reading needs to be related to water flowing out of the over pressure valve. That has to be kept on the low side.

I managed push button coffee that way with constant weights out. The grinder was tricky to set to maintain the dose. The time adjustment is rather coarse for sub 1/2g accuracy. Best add with an edit - unlikely to be achievable unless there is always the same bean in the hopper.


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