# Single shot dosing to on demand grinding



## Scotty (Mar 21, 2011)

Hi

Today I took the plunge and ordered a eureka zenith 65e from bella barista. I have been using a vario and single dosing 15g into the hopper before every drink.

I'd like to start using on demand grinding but not sure of the best way to dial in so would like some advice. When using new beans do you weigh the contents of your basket and adjust the time till you reach the required dose?

The vario is a decent grinder but I recently upgraded my machine from a Sylvia to a rocket evo 2 and I want complete consistency from shot to shot that I'm not getting at the moment.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

I tend to do the time adjustment last of all getting the grind right for the desired pour quantities so in other words first couple of shots you are looking to get your shot tasting right then change the time. As long as you got enough beans in the hopper the times should give you roughly the right amounts out you'll know when theres not enough beans in there as the weights out will start going a bit awry.

Cracking grinder, easy as peas to clean and consistent *if* you keep the hopper loaded.

Would still weight the grinds though and adjust your output if out a little.

Hope of help

John


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I grind into a container and weigh. There is obviously a reciprocal relationship between grind and time. For my dark beans this usually equates to 18g in 8 to 9.5 seconds, depending on age etc.. If you tighten the grind you increase the time and vice-versa. Sorry if I'm teaching granny.









I work this way to minimise waste. I.e. I do a couple of one second grinds (on the one cup setting), to clear the dynamic retention, and discard them. Then do a long grind (between 8 and 9.5 seconds) on the two cup setting and weigh it. If it comes up light, I grind for a second (I have the one cup setting on this) and add from that. If it comes up heavy I just discard the excess. I adjust the two cup time setting accordingly for subsequent doses. If you're doing several in a row you don't need to bother weighing the subsequent ones if the first was on target because the consistency is accurate enough. However, as the beans age and the humidity varies you will need to re-weigh and adjust accordingly.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Why don't you weigh your pf with the grinds in it?


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## Scotty (Mar 21, 2011)

My scales are tiny so the pf won't sit on it. Sure its a maximum of 200g as well.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Might be worth getting some higher capacity ones down the line; on demands are all about reducing faff and grinding into a container adds an undesirable step in


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

Get some new scales and do as jeebsy states

Thats what I do, in fact new PF scales enroute from China as we speak £8 delivered. Dropped the last ones


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## Scotty (Mar 21, 2011)

Thanks for the replies so far but i've got another question after receiving my grinder and putting 1kg through of old coffee to season the burrs.

As i used to single dose i ran the grinder until it was empty. Now with the 65e i'm running with beans in the hopper. I can sit the basket in by itself so i can check the does weight before putting the basket in the portafilter.

Say i started at 15g in with 30g out and it was a little fast (22/23 seconds). Which variable would you go to first?

Adjusting the dose seems easier as i can do it in .1 second increments and because i don't need to purge the grinder of the coarser grind wastes less coffee.

Is my logic wrong and would it be better to adjust the grind? Surely then i need to increase the dose as well as tightening the grind produces less dose...

Sorry if this is obvious, just trying to get my head around it all.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

If the shot is fast tighten the grind and purge a bit of coffee.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Would suggest grinding finer at that speed, not a lot though.

What basket are you using?


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## Scotty (Mar 21, 2011)

VST 15g


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Leave the single dosing for the ek and mazzer boys....

Keep the hopper as full as possible with beans, or weigh the beans down with something.

As Dylan says, tighten it slightly and give it a purge, everyone hates waste but its inevitable sometimes.


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

Only ever change one thing at a time - check the effect and re-adjust.

Typically, determine the dose you want to use and keep this the same. Adjust the grind to get the required extraction (weight and time), generally aiming for 25 to 30 secs. Weight of espresso/dose = brew ratio, typically around 2 for espresso - but can be changed to taste.

When I started weighing the dose and espresso, I found that I had been getting a brew ratio of 3-4 and the espresso (lots of it) was not nice - but okay in a milk drink.

It's all about trial by taste.


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## Sami (Apr 18, 2013)

I have found that adjusting the grind affects the output of a timed grinder. i.e. finer grinds will produce a smaller output. So ideally you'll want to re-weigh when making adjustments so that you know your dose.

Also bear in mind that if you're going to make significant adjustments you should be doing them while the grinder is running, particularly when you go from coarser to finer.

My reasoning for getting a timed grinder was to reduce faff, but what I've found is that I've replaced one kind of faff for another... until it's dialled in. Then life is certainly a lot easier.


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

There are a few things that will affect the dose you get for a given timer setting so generally it's not repeatable enough to rely on. On cheaper grinders, even the timer is not consistent. If you can get within a tenth or two of a gram then great. My Mignon varies by quite a bit so I don't use it. Activate the grinder manually and judge by eye, normally stopping short and topping up as required.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

froggystyle said:


> Leave the single dosing for the ek and mazzer boys....


A million times this. No point having an OD grinder then single dosing it.


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400820269585?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I just bought a cheap non-waterproof 1000g scales

the display faces you - good for when the cup is under the PF


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## Scotty (Mar 21, 2011)

Thanks. I'm having a bit of inconsistency in dose from the same settings. Sometimes I get 14g and sometimes I get 12g. The hopper is full. I'm guessing this is because the grinder is new and will settle down?


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Will take a while to season those burrs. Probably 10kgs plus.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Mine was like yours, big varying outputs at first, its settled down now and is very consistent with a full hopper of beans, took a few months though.


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## Scotty (Mar 21, 2011)

A few months. Wow. Just need to run with it. Thanks.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I cut my coffee intake a fair bit the last 3 months so it should not take that long.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

You could find the 65e settles down after about 3-4 kilos and until then will just be a bit up and down on the weights, first one out in a run if not purging with a quick blast will be slightly higher than those that follow on in the same run.

Have just changed the burrs on mine as whilst not worn were getting similarly erratic weight wise, I think i worked out with BB that had way more than the average household through ours into the hundred and something kilo and not expensive to replace to return to a level playing field ( less end of life, more useful life)

If ordering beans from your preferred roaster ask if they got any QC failures or seasoning beans, some are happy to pass on if you are a customer.

John


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Do you also notice that the shots are a bit erratic when the burrs are new, like, the shot tends to blond earlier or tend to run faster towards the end?


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Sounds odd @johnealey as burrs are usually rated for thousands of kilos?

Normally in a home Environment you would never go through a set of burrs.

Always worth checking if you've taken the grinder apart for cleaning that the burrs are aligned and there is nothing caught underneath them.


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## Scotty (Mar 21, 2011)

@johnealey is your grinder really clumpy? Never seen clumps this big before.


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## Scotty (Mar 21, 2011)

Actually just worked it out (i think).

When the grinder first arrived the exit chute plugged completely. I used a pipe cleaner to clear it. I've looked up the exit chute and there are two prongs shaped like lighting that appear to be to break up clumps. These were bent upwards so I've bent them back down.

I was also grinding at 3.5ish which I'm guessing is pretty fine. Might explain why it's both clumpy and inconsistent. I've backed off to 4 and it seems better. Strangely 0 on this grinder is where the burrs touch. Never had that before.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Hi Scotty

The clump breakers, the two prongs, are not the most obvious of things when you cleaning and easy, as you have discovered, to bend back or even bend up out of shape. When you take the top burrs off to clean the chamber out which is a doddle, 3 screws and you in once hopper and cover off, just remember to finish by pushing your pipecleaner out though the chute exit and only pull though from the other end, this should then ensure they are in the right direction.

The 75e has a different clump crusher and keep meaning to ask BB if they are a straight swap or require a modification. The 65e can produce a boulder like most others would in the right circumstances (super fine grind, humidity, static etc) but is normally pretty good. It will settle down once seasoned and the variable nature time or weight wise, whilst a bit a of a pain during this time, wont really affect the cup too much.

To answer the question on the burrs: Eureka 65e burrs (which are actually 64mm) are rated commercially at about 350-400Kg as they are steel and not coated like the TiN ones found in the 75e or Mythos which are rated into the thousands of kilos. The figure quoted of 350Kg is life expectency not life usefulness which can be a bit lower. In a commercial environment these are being swapped out at 350kg ish from conversations at BB. To be fair to them they also said mine should not be worn out but...worn out and going off the boil are slightly different and the last set, knowing that had started on own roasted Daterra full bloom at 6, recently down to 3.9- 4 and a couple of Pacamaras / Geishas was well into the 0.3 to 0.4 range so took this as a cue to replace.

Burrs are £29 from BB so not a huge cost and now back into the 6's range so, just using this as a gauge, old burrs were no longer at their peak. Sat down and tried to work out what had actually gone through them and in the 18 months of ownership 2kg ave of personal use ( don't ask) and at least 1 and sometimes 1.5kg ground for family per week = 78x 3kg = 234kgs which is way more than most households and a little less than the commmercials so probably not far off.

To put the cost in context of the above, about 12.5p per kilo of beans if they were to wear out at the same rate or another 18 months for us or possibly 6-7 years for others 

Never took the burrs off the top or bottom carriers until replaced however did open it up 3-4 times a week on the volume we on or on change of beans and vac, brush out which is easy to do on the eurekas (5 mins) as no dialling in afterwards as is the bottom carrier that moves up and down.

Hope this answers some questions asked and some yet to ask.









John


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## Scotty (Mar 21, 2011)

After loosening the grind to 4.5ish ended up with 18g after 11.5 seconds. Decided just to run with the shot and see how it went.

43g shot after 25 seconds so a bit on the quick side. Surprisingly was quite tasty as a flat white.


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