# Royal vs Robur: Mazzers head to head



## alexferdi (Aug 4, 2015)

After having my super jolly for only a week I got throttled by upgraditis. Needless to say a few days later I was the proud owner of a Royal. After modding it and only a few major electrical short outs and circuit breaker trips I have finally managed to get it going again (with the much needed advice of some of the great people on the forum) and am loving it. So much better than the super jolly!

Its only been about another week and I'm already thinking about where I go from here. I've been seeing the Robur mentioned as a Titan grinder. As far as I can see it's the same size as the royal and with the same motor but he conical instead of flat burrs.

Has anyone used/owned both and compared them head to head and can tell me what the difference is in the cup (@coffeechap maybe)?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Same size they are not! - Edit: Yes they are! As CC said below, a Major and Royal are not the same thing -_-










And the Robur is a retention beast (20 odd g from memory of reading these forums, not sure if they can be modded much) and you have to make sure you buy a 1-phase for at home use. But the grind is meant to be excellent and you can pick them up much cheaper than other conics in their class.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Actually the toyal and robur are exactly the same size Dylan, that is a major in the photo


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

coffeechap said:


> Actually the toyal and robur are exactly the same size Dylan, that is a major in the photo


>_

Read the title of the thread, clearly says Royal, but my brain heard Major.

Can much be done on the retention front CC?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

retention on the robur is a pain, I am working on a single dosing devise for conics but don't think it will work with the robur. One of the issues is the ability to get the ground coffee out of the exit path. The robur is a monster on retention!


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## alexferdi (Aug 4, 2015)

Hi guys. Can you not do the clean sweep mod on the Robur stopping retention? I thought all the Mazzers were similar from this respect. What about the actual difference in taste in the cup though? Is there any point moving from a royal to a Robur?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

the doser can be modded exactly the same but the retention is in the grind path from burrs to doser!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Clean sweep cleans the doser, but there will be retention in the grind chamber (where the burrs are) and in the exit chute from burrs to doser.

Edit: beaten to it by CC

CC - why does a brush, or scraper not work? Or is this just a bit fiddly?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

alexferdi said:


> Hi guys. Can you not do the clean sweep mod on the Robur stopping retention? I thought all the Mazzers were similar from this respect. What about the actual difference in taste in the cup though? Is there any point moving from a royal to a Robur?


I think its more of an issue that the Robour has conical burrs which tend to retain more.

Beaten to it!


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> retention on the robur is a pain, I am working on a single dosing devise for conics but don't think it will work with the robur. One of the issues is the ability to get the ground coffee out of the exit path. The robur is a monster on retention!


Is this the shaped weight you were talking about for grind consistency that you were also looking at for the SJ and Major?


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## alexferdi (Aug 4, 2015)

Sounds like by definition of getting stale grinds through later that the royal would therefore be superior on taste by nature of the retention aspect alone. Anyone got any tasting experience?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Is this the shaped weight you were talking about for grind consistency that you were also looking at for the SJ and Major?


Yes


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Yes


Are you any further forward it? If you need someone to test it on a Major.........


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

flat burr grinders are proving to be more difficult than the conics, as you can put a weight all the way down on to the top of the burrs in a conic, its harder in a flat.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Just pitching in that until recently the Robur was Tim Windleboes grinder of choice....


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

robur is a great grinder


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Very noticeable difference in the cup between conical and flat burrs ,

having said that IMO all grinders have their own attributes in the cup and the differences are subject to personal tastes.

I personally like the difference a conical makes but the retention can put a dent in your precious bean stock .


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

having just moved from a conical E10 to a flat Mythos, I am actually pleasantly surprised how well the flat handles the darker stuff I like. I do not feel that i am losing out much if anything,in taste which is odd as I always voiced my opinion that the conicals won hands down


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## alexferdi (Aug 4, 2015)

You mentioned retention in the robur @coffeechap. Does the royal have much with its flat burrs? Haven't opened it up to look


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## alexferdi (Aug 4, 2015)

I've also heard that the compak k10 is nearly the same taste as he robur but no retention. Is that true?


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

alexferdi said:


> I've also heard that the compak k10 is nearly the same taste as he robur but no retention. Is that true?


LOL in a word, no... same retention problem in a K10... probably less in an E10 though, but still not as little as some of the flats (Mythos etc.)

K10/E10 burrs are virtually the same size as the Robur ones - though the outer measurement of the upper burr is larger on the Robur (hence 71mm vs 68mm). Internally (where the grinding happens) they are essentially the same size burrs - hence you could expect them to be similar on the taste front.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

You can single dose both the royal and the k10, you need to have some form of weight in the chute, in doing so you will have zero retention, but there is always a compromise on the grind quality


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> having just moved from a conical E10 to a flat Mythos, I am actually pleasantly surprised how well the flat handles the darker stuff I like. I do not feel that i am losing out much if anything,in taste which is odd as I always voiced my opinion that the conicals won hands down


This is good first hand feedback as conics are nearly always touted for being better at bringing the best out of a darker roast.

@coffeechap On a related note I'm having one last look for a tap tomorrow, if not I'll order one. Problem is they are cheap if you order from China (and presumably wait a month for it to arrive), otherwise they're 10x the price!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

the wait is fine dude


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## alexferdi (Aug 4, 2015)

@coffeechap I've just been reading a thread on Robur retention on HB. I've been hearing people talk about grinds in the burr chamber compacting and not being expelled when new beans are ground and therefore not creating the kind of retention calculated by emptying the whole burr chamber. Have you thought about testing this theory? I was thinking you could grind some coffee for a while and then later grind something that has a completely different colour. Some kind of pale nut for example like a peanut. Then when you dosed after the nut grind you could see how much actual coffee came through by looking at the grinds. Do you think this would work and give a better insight into real in the portafilters retention?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)




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## alexferdi (Aug 4, 2015)

Ha! Thanks MrBoots. Being new to the forum I guess it's a bit naive thinking I've thought of something people haven't work d out already!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


>


The problem with this method as I see it is that when he measures the weight he is getting 'mixed' output (as far as we can tell)

The same test, but each time transferring the ground coffee into another container, so you can see when it is mostly 'new' coffee coming out, and not a mix of new and stale would maybe be more useful.

Plus: putting peanuts in your grinder... heh. Pretty sure we could get @jeebsy to chuck a few through his EK


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Dylan said:


> Plus: putting peanuts in your grinder... heh. Pretty sure we could get @jeebsy to chuck a few through his EK


Are you joking?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> Are you joking?


Of course, I think they would take slightly longer to get out than star anise.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

View attachment 16413


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

Yes, I've tested my Brasilia MC like this using Grindz.

see http://www.home-barista.com/advice/which-grinder-is-this-t25125.html (last post)

I first ran the grinder until it was empty of beans, but didn't perform any of the usual single dosing tricks (like brushing out the shoot, puffing air though it or pulsing the motor). I then put 2g of grindz in and ran the grinder until it was all ground, and got 2g of a mixture of grindz and coffee out - mostly coffee. I then put another 2g of grindz through and got virtually all grindz out. It's a good test.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> View attachment 16413


They do look like a weird combination of a peanut and a green coffee bean in his video though


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)




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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

alexferdi said:


> You mentioned retention in the robur @coffeechap. Does the royal have much with its flat burrs? Haven't opened it up to look


Looking back through an older thread from @coffeechap, it appears nothing has more retention than a Royal...


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