# Updosing - too much coffee in 15g VST



## hippy_dude (Sep 22, 2015)

mmmatron said:


> Tried a longer ratio which tasted much better, thanks for the tip. Getting a lot of spritzing and uneven extractions which I don't normally have a problem with. I'll need to take a bit more care with prep/distribution I think!


I've found the need to updose with these beans, the same weight amount compared with others isn't filling the basket anywhere near the same volume. Maybe lowered volume could be having an effect on channelling?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

hippy_dude said:


> I've found the need to updose with these beans, the same weight amount compared with others isn't filling the basket anywhere near the same volume. Maybe lowered volume could be having an effect on channelling?


I've found that going finer tends to make the dose take up less space in the Pf. Finer can increase clumping.


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## hippy_dude (Sep 22, 2015)

Can anyone help, I'm getting pretty poor crema from this and it's overly acidic and can't tell whether I'm getting a poor extraction or if I'm burning the shot with temp surfing.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

hippy_dude said:


> Can anyone help, I'm getting pretty poor crema from this and it's overly acidic and can't tell whether I'm getting a poor extraction or if I'm burning the shot with temp surfing.


Don't worry about crema. What dose/out put time are you currently using?

Overly acidic could be a number of things, but the main culprit is probably under extraction.

Are you using a naked PF? Are there any noticeable distribution issues e.g Channelling. If not try finer or longer or both.


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## hippy_dude (Sep 22, 2015)

No naked portafilter ATM, and have been grinding fine and letting it out today as it seemed to be over extracted. Problem is the shot looks great to begin with and after a short while goes into clear brown liquid instead of bonding.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Does the shot speed up towards the end compared to your other ones?

What dose/output time?


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## hippy_dude (Sep 22, 2015)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Does the shot speed up towards the end compared to your other ones?
> 
> What dose/output time?


Yes, exponential speed up. Dose is 19g (in a 15g vst as my crappy machines shower screen is oddly high up so dose is machine dependant rather than basket) into 35g in anywhere between 22-30 seconds with the grinds I've played about with today.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

19 in a 15 g vst is helping no one ....

With those doses in that basket you might as well go back to a stock one for all the good it's doing


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## hippy_dude (Sep 22, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> 19 in a 15 g vst is helping no one ....
> 
> With those doses in that basket you might as well go back to a stock one for all the good it's doing


The stock basket was needing 23g... It's a temporary thing until I can get a better machine, I understand the basket is formed fora certain dose but figured I could counteract it with grind? I shall give it a try altering back to 16g max, but still not sure where the issue could be coming from? Possibly too high pressure?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

How do you teach at 23 g for a stock basket ? That's more than a normal triple basket needs . I think you need to reevaluate your dose and headroom and start another thread


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Sounds like some crazy up dosing. I've always found 15g VSTs quite fickle.

Sounds like it could be Channelling. Difficult to say without seeing it. Might be worth doing a clip of your prep and shot.

I've had better results with longer time shots 37-38sec shots.

Might be worth the Mods moving this to a separate thread.


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## hippy_dude (Sep 22, 2015)

Yeah sorry everyone I didn't mean to hijack the thread ? I know it doesn't make sense, it baffles me.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

hippy_dude said:


> Yeah sorry everyone I didn't mean to hijack the thread  I know it doesn't make sense, it baffles me.


You are massively over dosing - coffee needs headroom - you don't need to dose to the rim of the basket ...

Mods can you split this off into another thread (@risky @Rhys )


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

What machine have you got. 23 in a standard basket is loads. What makes you think you need to dose so much?


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## hippy_dude (Sep 22, 2015)

Not sure whether I should answer seeing as it's still there lsol thread (don't wanna get on anyone's nerves)


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

No worries the Mods will tidy this up, or start another thread.


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## hippy_dude (Sep 22, 2015)

urbanbumpkin said:


> No worries the Mods will tidy this up, or start another thread.


Ok well, in the standard basket with a lower dose than 22/23g the puck ends up obliterated, with holes in where the water hit it. With the vst I've got ok results with 16g unless it's light Roast like the lsol (which is why I posted here to begin with). I've just pulled a short with 16g of rave Suarez and it's come out ok.


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## hippy_dude (Sep 22, 2015)

urbanbumpkin said:


> What machine have you got. 23 in a standard basket is loads. What makes you think you need to dose so much?


And btw it's a Gaggia espresso pure machine, which I bought 3 months ago rebuilt by the Gaggia service guy of these forums.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

hippy_dude said:


> Ok well, in the standard basket with a lower dose than 22/23g the puck ends up obliterated, with holes in where the water hit it. With the vst I've got ok results with 16g unless it's light Roast like the lsol (which is why I posted here to begin with). I've just pulled a short with 16g of rave Suarez and it's come out ok.


What a puck looks like after its extracted tells you nothing as a rule . Does your machine have a three was solonoid valve ? ( i dont think it does ) Do you know what pressure it's set at ( more than 10 bar )

Edit pures look like they are set at 15 bar from factory

@Glenn wanna split this off


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Split from LSOL thread


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I've not used espresso at 15 bar, but I think overdosing by that amount wouldn't help. I'm thinking it would just be under extracting.

@gaggiaservicemanual, any pointers regarding dosing?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Ive got a 15g VST ridgeless and have found I need to put in 17.5gs of one type of bean or 15 gs with another type to fill the basket to the same level of puck after pour.

As Hippy dude has mentioned there might be extended headroom on his machine which he bought second hand and might be a frankenstein machine ( no disrespect intended) It may well accommodate a few more grams than a standard machine.

This is how I like my puck to look, no more impression on it than this, and infact i am now redusing the amount. Ignore the basket in the back, that was just to show what my old gaggia OE basket looked like.

These are from my 15g VST, the one on the right has .2gs less that the one on the left and is what I think to be correct but welcome any comments on if it is over filled or not


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