# Long extraction do any damage? (R58)



## lee1980

As I am experimenting and only had a few weeks. Sometimes must be fine grind or tamped to hard, taking like over 30 seconds for anything to come through, pump stays in green zone. Is there any likely damage from the pressure or anything?


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## MildredM

Not sure about damage (although . . . I don't expect it's doing it any good) but it will surely be affecting the taste of the coffee.


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## lee1980

MildredM said:


> Not sure about damage (although . . . I don't expect it's doing it any good) but it will surely be affecting the taste of the coffee.


Oh yeah of course I realise that just meant in these learning stages, hopefully won't do to much harm. if more than say 20 secs maybe should one start again.


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## MildredM

I would, yes.


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## Mrboots2u

Once unlikely , I wouldnt recommend it as a long term thing .Your weighing your dose each time ?


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## RDC8

I would think that if the pressure gauge stays in the green zone then it is still operating at a safe level. (normally this is 8-10 bar of pressure). However, the long delay could mean one of two things:

1)the PID has been adjusted to too low a pressure to force the water through the puck

2) the grind is too fine. In which case you will need to make it a little coarser. Just back it off a little and try another shot. By grinding a little coarser each time you will eventually get the flow rate which delivers around 2oz in 30 seconds. Do you have a shot glass to measure the output? Even better, consider getting scales to weigh the ground coffee going into the basket, and then weigh the shot once it is poured. A good starting point is 18gm of ground coffee to produce 36gm of espresso in around 30 seconds. Of course, if the flow rate is too fast it means your grind is too coarse and you will need to make it finer to slow it down.

IMHO - the pressure of the tamp is not a significant factor - as the water is delivered at 9-times atmospheric pressure! The tamp should be sufficient to compact the coffee and to produce a flat,smooth surface to aid even dispersion of the water.

It is not unusual to waste a good number of shots until you find the best grind setting!


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## lee1980

Next step, got some scales so thats the plan as been mentioned to do in my other thread on here. The PID is as is from bella barista, I have not connected it yet.

I am trying to do the same pressure on tamp as you say just to flatten it really.

It sure is the grind and amount of in basket that affects this.

I maybe jumped the gun and got the naked porta filter with 21g basket to.


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## MildredM

Maybe get some confidence using the spouted p/filter and 18g basket for a bit. I know the naked forces you to do it 'right' but in the very early days it's good to get some confidence (and decent coffee)!


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## lee1980

I will go back to spouted one, though the shower of espresso coming through is amazing to watch! need more practice.


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## lee1980

In weighing, i tare scales with porta filter on then add coffee, for 18 should get 18g and for 21 get 21g, as it seems not enough as on baskets i have there is line to fill up to so if weight is correct maybe its to fine?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Dose 18g. The standard basket should be able to take that amount. Aim for 36g output in around 30s. Adjust finer/coarser and longer/shorter by taste.

You can do a simple test:

- Dose 18g and tamp. Put a 10p coin on top of the puck and lock the PF in. DO NOT run water through it!

- Take the PF out and check: If there's a slight indentation, all is good. If there isn't an indentation, dose higher. If there is a massive indentation, then the dose is too high, so dose less.

Hope that helps!


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## DaveP

> as it seems not enough as on baskets


Try it and see how it tastes, then try a coarser grind of the same weight and see if that takes up more room and tastes even better


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## lee1980

Thanks will, do. On Standard 18g there is a groove line it says to fill up to in manual, and have same on rocket naked 21g basket. Maybe is to fine.

I think as we generally have milk based drinks, I also don't really know how a good epsresso should taste like. So far only had 2 coffee's milk based where it left a yucky after taste, I think under extracted.


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## johnealey

Ignore the line in the basket, it is there solely as a manufacturing byproduct of the ridge being formed to hold the basket against the spring in the portafilter.

Each different bean you come across could have a different density so sit higher or lower in the basket for the same weight; if you are not weighing at all then you could be getting different weights every time thus no consistency.

At very least buy a set of scales capable of weighing to 0.1g increments and start from there. If grinds sitting low in the basket pull a shot to a given ratio i.e. 1:2, 1:2.5, 1:3 etc or other words 18g in basket to 36g out, 18:45 etc etc (you can go 1:1 and up as well, aiming for approx. 30 seconds (this is not written in stone, have had many a tasty shot at 50s plus).

The key thing here is Taste first and foremost plus the elimination of variable allowing you to repeat or change slightly the constituent parts of weight in vs Weight out and time. If you find the 18g in the basket sits low and produces your desired ratio output tastes good to you then don't sweat the height in the basket; by all means add more (or less) and experiment till you find a taste you like.

The 18g into 36g over 30 seconds is just a guide to work from not a guarantee of tasty.

Hope of help

John

p.s. Scales!


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## johnealey

Both Extract and Clifton run coffee course in Bristol which might be worth looking into if the scales don't help or shout out for a local forum member who does training and discuss costs as training on your machine(s) will be best option if you decide to go down this route.

John


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## lee1980

Thanks John, I see so won't follow the line, I think at the mo I am going to fine a grind.

I do have scales think it was in another thread I said I did.

Trying to go to the epsressofest at Bristol to next weekend, might be a good place to taste!


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## matisse

Stop by my shop , full court press. Happy to talk through things with you.


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## lee1980

matisse said:


> Stop by my shop , full court press. Happy to talk through things with you.


Hi, thanks where abouts is it? Couldn't see in profile etc


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## Mrboots2u

lee1980 said:


> Hi, thanks where abouts is it? Couldn't see in profile etc


Google is your friend

https://www.fcpcoffee.com


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## matisse

What he said. Next in the shop on thurs.


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## Stanic

matisse said:


> Stop by my shop , full court press. Happy to talk through things with you.


Hey, nice website and good price on courses!


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