# What's happened to the Versalab thread?



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

As the title says.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Wondering the same thing?


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

There never was a Versalab thread, charlie, and if you don't pipe down there never will have been a charliej


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Book burners!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Versalab paid the mods off to delete it and cover up the scandal


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

It went so far off thread that (as the thread starter) I asked for it to be taken down, quite frankly I am not interested in resurecting old beefs from 10 years ago between old men with too much time on their hands, my original post was about customer care (communication) and nothing else. for the record I am delighted with the grind consistency of my versalab!!!!!!!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

No - mods. Thread taken down as it veered off OP which was about customer service. Awaiting Glenn's thoughts.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> It went so far off thread that (as the thread starter) I asked for it to be taken down, quite frankly I am not iterested in resurecting old beefs from 10 years ago between old men with too much time on their hands, my original post was about customer care (communication) and nothing else.


Aha, censor what we don't like, leave what we do.....that's the way.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

you are one of those old men with too much time on your hands that inspired my decision dave


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

OH MY GOD. Seriously? Soon, before posting there is going to be a requirement to start saluting with a straightened hand 45 degrees towards the sky.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

.....So, who's had a nice coffee today?


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

Burnzy said:


> .....So, who's had a nice coffee today?


I think your post is off topic and will probably be removed by the moderators.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Hoffmonkey said:


> OH MY GOD. Seriously? Soon, before posting there is going to be a requirement to start saluting with a straightened hand 45 degrees towards the sky.


Hoff

lets be clear about this please, before this becomes some debate on moderation and the moderators on the forum

Coffeechap requested this thread be removed under his own volition and choice and not from prompting from anyone else ....


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

So if I start something, say I have an idea I want to share. Say twenty people then get involved with me on that idea and become interested in the ideas outcome. Do I still own it outright? Or has it moved on and become something OWNED BY THE COMMUNITY?


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Hoffmonkey said:


> I think your post is off topic and will probably be removed by the moderators.


Just trying to de-rail the thread before we all fall into a debate about moderation and blah blah.... Lets just chat the hobby that we are all here for...


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> you are one of those old men with too much time on your hands that inspired my decision dave


I didn't have any 10 year old beefs, but thanks for the compliment. you started up about a problem, then didn't like the way the thread went. In fact the thread wasn't useful you're right. *What would have been useful would have been knowing exactly what went wrong, something you didn't seem to want to do. *Then you did not like people airing theire views on Versalabs customer service.

I must remember that unless posts you right go exactly the way you want them to, you will want them to be removed, perhaps I'm old, you will be one day and perhaps a bit wiser.


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

Burnzy said:


> Just trying to de-rail the thread before we all fall into a debate about moderation and blah blah.... Lets just chat the hobby that we are all here for...


Versalab was on my list to buy in future. I mentioned somewhere else about getting a "semi-on" when I saw pics of it.

Debate was very interesting with lots of points I was hoping to see resolved. I was also hopeful that at some point Versalab themselves might have waded in, explained some stuff, defended themselves. This cannot now happen.

Yes, I agree, let's just chat the hobby that we are all here for. That's the essence of it. Debate, chat, opinion. NO CENSORSHIP.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Everyone please chill please

Take a step back

None of this is stopping the world from turning

Start a thread up on the pros and cons of a versalab Hoff, if you want ....

its a nice day outside , i might go out


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

FFS guys !! The answer to the question I asked was given no real need for bagging on people about it, as TSK has said it's awaiting Glenn's thoughts as well. If you have any beefs with forum management regarding moderation either start a thread up in the lounge of off topic forums or take it up directly with Glenn.

I started the thread as I was curious to why it had been removed and didn't want to have to send a series of pms to find out, it was not meant to critical of moderation just a question, on occasions where I have had thoughts regarding moderating decisions I have taken it up with the mod concerned and/or Glenn as in my opinion that is the way to handle anything of that nature.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Dave, I have asked to remove one post in all the time that I have been on here, I did not want the grind consistency of the versalab dragged into it, as I am completely satisfied with the grind consistency of my grinder and that is where the thread was starting to go.

So please provide any evidence if you will of where I ask for posts to be removed as I do not, I started this thread and wished I hadn't (therefore asked it to be removed as it was not a reflection of what I had asked), so perhaps that is certainly where I need to learn my lesson, think a lot harder before I respond to a question I had been asked, thankyou for your suggestion. I dont think versalab deserved to have the "old grind consistency" debate aired all over again.


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

Well the thread title would have you think it's going to be about a grinder, not the customer service of the company who made it so its little wonder it veered off "point" when the "point" so was poorly Advertised . Not an attack at cc just an observation.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Its times like this when i think "we" show a lack of perspective about a hobby with a brown drink ......

Im not saying any of this for sympathy or effect , just sometimes you take for granted the ability to be able to communicate with people , how you do it and what a simple joy it can be ....And perhaps use it to bring a smile or help someone .......

I have a ten year old step son..

he can't talk, can't communicate or sign , he will probably never be able to , he gets really frustrated at not being able to make me understand what he wants sometimes

He never lashes out , he never screams and cries about it ........he is for the most part a very happy boy

I am damm sure that if he could communicate he would put his communication skills to better use than arguing with people on the internet like we seem to be doing today

Im going to "talk to him " instead though .....

Try and be nice to each other please

Life is too short ....


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

I wasnt going to post on this - partly because , as Boots alluded, its only coffee - its not my life.

A post gets removed. So what ? I doubt I would have noticed if it wasnt pointed out. And, all being well, the sun will rise again in the morning - despite this outrage.

All that said, the moderation is becoming stifling at times.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

working dog said:


> All that said, the moderation is becoming stifling at times.


The thread was removed by the OP. This is quite different to heavy handed moderation, certainly not censorship. We all have the ability to edit our posts & remove/correct things that, in retrospect, appear to be erroneous, discourteous, unwise, mipselled .

I don't see this as being any different.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> So please provide any evidence if you will of where I ask for posts to be removed as I do not, I started this thread and wished I hadn't (therefore asked it to be removed as it was not a reflection of what I had asked), so perhaps that is certainly where I need to learn my lesson, think a lot harder before I respond to a question I had been asked, thankyou for your suggestion. I dont think versalab deserved to have the "old grind consistency" debate aired all over again.


I didn't debate grind consistency at all, you said I was one of the old men bringing up 10 year old beefs, but I never mentioned grind consistency, just the customer service and the fact that it would be very good to know what component failed. As far as evidence of post removal, I am referring to this post you had removed. How would I know or care what other posts you had removed.



> MJWB said The thread was removed by the OP. This is quite different to heavy handed moderation, certainly not censorship. We all have the ability to edit our posts & remove/correct things that, in retrospect, appear to be erroneous, discourteous, unwise, mipselled .


Hey Mark, completely agree with you on editing our posts, but having the thread removed also edits/deletes everyone elses posts. Not what I think you meant.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

MWJB said:


> The thread was removed by the OP. This is quite different to heavy handed moderation, certainly not censorship. We all have the ability to edit our posts & remove/correct things that, in retrospect, appear to be erroneous, discourteous, unwise, mipselled .
> 
> I don't see this as being any different.


I wasnt referring to the thread being deleted. I did say that "the thread was removed -so what" in my post.

My comment was more generally about moderation. Other non coffee forums have a much lighter touch and the community behaves fine.

I realise that its not my forum, its not my rules. Its just my view.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I think it's generally quite a light touch round here.


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

I think that this thread should also be removed as it is not helping anyone or anything. CC made a decision, the mods acted thereon. End of discussion!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Eh? This is just about the lightest touch forum I've ever seen.

Anyway, this is just bickering. Perhaps the protagonists could take it to pm?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

DavidBondy said:


> I think that this thread should also be removed as it is not helping anyone or anything. CC made a decision, the mods acted thereon. End of discussion!


....If only!!


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

DavidBondy said:


> I think that this thread should also be removed as it is not helping anyone or anything. CC made a decision, the mods acted thereon. End of discussion!


I did debate asking for this thread to be removed given the way it has gone, but thought doing that would just feed any of those who seem to feel the removal of the other thread is censorship and almost akin to book burning.

I repeat the thread was started to ask a question not start a debate regarding the level of moderation. To that end I would ask that one of the moderating team, rather than removing this thread simply lock it and leave it to die a natural death.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Yes, some forums (of any kind) are well behaved, others are, or appear to be, a constant battleground...I think CFUK has balance & a good mix of characters & opinions generally.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Firstly let me apologise , as I am unsure wether to post this or not! I like to think I am sitting on the fence with this one , and I am hoping that the perception of me and my posts doesn't upset or cause offence, I agree that sometimes threads can run a little bit of the original post , but I also recognise that sometimes interesting posts can arise.

I am of the mindset that we are all on a journey of discovery in the pursuit of a great cup of coffee and the forum is a great place to share our experiences and give help and guidance to our fellow members.

perhaps it is my naivety to not understand the implications of making posts to a thread , but I was under the belief the forum was a place for discussion and to voice opinions, I understand that people may use this tool to grind their axe or air their laundry in public , but surely thats the point , the freedom to express oneself, you may or may not like the post that others put up or wether you agree with their opinions is up to you, you have option to reply .

I am really not trying to stir up a hornets nest , I have no ulterior motive for this post. But I have been left a bewildered and left with a bit of anxiety at deciding at what or what is not a suitable post and wether I am being judged by my posts or causing offence or distress to others.

Hope this is not the beginning of the end , as I have enjoyed my time here.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Thecatlinux said:


> perhaps it is my naivety to not understand the implications of making posts to a thread , but I was under the belief the forum was a place for discussion and to voice opinions, I understand that people may use this tool to grind their axe or air their laundry in public , but surely thats the point , the freedom to express oneself, you may or may not like the post that others put up or wether you agree with their opinions is up to you, you have option to reply .
> 
> I am really not trying to stir up a hornets nest , I have no ulterior motive for this post. But I have been left a bewildered and left with a bit of anxiety at deciding at what or what is not a suitable post and wether I am being judged by my posts or causing offence or distress to others.
> 
> Hope this is not the beginning of the end , as I have enjoyed my time here.


Hopefully everyone will continue to enjoy posting here. I don't think you typically have need to feel anxious, nor to apologise.

But it's a double-edged sword...we want the freedom to post completely uncensored, with that comes the inevitable risk of causing offence or distress, maybe even damaging someone's reputation/business, or occasionally flirting with libel? Freedom brings with it responsibility. I think, because we access internet forums from the comfort of our own environments, we often run the risk of stating things that we would maybe only normally say in the comfort of our own environments, rather than posted with world-wide access.

It's not realistic to expect everyone to just say educational/positive/sensible/logical things, it would be dull & not the place it is, if they did. Besides, we often learn by airing differing views and by being wrong sometimes & benefitting from alternative views to our own.

We all have opinions, sometimes maybe we should ask ourselves what value certain opinions bring to the discussion. Coffeechap is a much liked & influential forum member, it's good to see the loyalty that the community showed in response to the OP, but really was a moot point for all but a tiny, tiny percentage, of a small percentage of the population. A potential buyer would surely do their own research before biting the bullet?

We respect CoffeeChap's thoughts, opinions and efforts in supporting forum members with gear advice, raffles & get-togethers, why not support his decision, as a member, to pull a thread as well? If anyone here deserves a little 'benefit of the doubt', he does. This isn't a regular occurrence as far as I can tell.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> Aha, censor what we don't like, leave what we do.....that's the way.


Like someone's nickname?


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

I can see all sides of this... but ultimately, I guess, he who starts a thread "owns" it - and irrespective of who else contributes to that thread by posting additional comments it's still a thread owned by the OP.

As such, I assume the OP can elect to have the thread removed, renamed or locked or whatever he/she desires (within the realms of what mods agree to do). If they hadn't started the thread then the other posts wouldn't have existed.

I think 'thread ownership by the OP' is something that we should, simply, all just be conscious of. I'm certainly not getting stressed or worried about it!


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## Jon V (Feb 24, 2014)

DavidBondy said:


> I think that this thread should also be removed as it is not helping anyone or anything.


It might lead to a What's happened to the What's happened to the Versalab thread thread.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

MrShades said:


> I can see all sides of this... but ultimately, I guess, he who starts a thread "owns" it - and irrespective of who else contributes to that thread by posting additional comments it's still a thread owned by the OP.
> 
> As such, I assume the OP can elect to have the thread removed, renamed or locked or whatever he/she desires (within the realms of what mods agree to do). If they hadn't started the thread then the other posts wouldn't have existed.
> 
> I think 'thread ownership by the OP' is something that we should, simply, all just be conscious of. I'm certainly not getting stressed or worried about it!


Why should the OP own a thread?

They may own their own posts and have the right to ask them to be deleted, but I can't see how someone has ownership of a thread of opinions and comments because they originated it.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I just wish all this bickering about 'who knows more about coffee machines' would stop.

Every time it starts I have a mental image of two naked paunchy middle-aged men cockfighting.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

does that involve chickens


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I wish it did


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## Jon V (Feb 24, 2014)

Is this a bad time to ask "What happened to the Verona thread(s)"?


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Jon V said:


> It might lead to a What's happened to the What's happened to the Versalab thread thread.


I think that is a great idea! Let's hope that this thread gets deleted so we can start one!!


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

I can't believe what I'm reading here - I might switch my computer off and watch the Jeremy Kyle show instead - slightly more grown up debate!

Put things in perspective - it's only a hobby. If the free forum run by volunteers isn't run to your liking you're welcome to try alternatives. Start your own forum


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Daren said:


> I can't believe what I'm reading here - I might switch my computer off and watch the Jeremy Kyle show instead - slightly more grown up debate!
> 
> Put things in perspective - it's only a hobby. If the free forum run by volunteers isn't run to your liking you're welcome to try alternatives. Start your own forum


But my human rights! What about the human rights! I'm going to Strasbourg


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

This is an appeal to please lets draw a line, for better or for worse, under this thread.

I am making this appeal not with a mod hat on but because I enjoy this Forum & am just sick of how degrading this is to the very standards & respect shown on here.

Lets talk about the nicer things we do, like coffee, machines, raffles & helping new joiners to get on an enjoyable coffee road.

Please! & thanks.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I vote for this thread to be deleted too.

All in favour click 'like'


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> ....perhaps I'm old, you will be one day and perhaps a bit wiser.


I get older, none the wiser but occasionally better informed


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Really hope this thread gets locked pronto. The OP has been answered.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Given the feelings on the last piece of moderation

I will leave any decision on locking a thread to Glenn, when he has a chance to look at this later today .

I know in general Glenn doesn't like to lock threads as a rule if it can be helped

"we" can simply choose not to post on here , as requested by Ron above .


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Omg could,this whole thing get any more tiresome ?

Can everyone just ask themselves one simple question and answer it honestly and with a sense of proportion bearing in mind the world we live in beyond the front door and all the things going on in it..........here it comes.........brace yourselves...........

DOES IT REALLY MATTER? I MEAN COME ON EVERYONE SURELY YOU MUST HAVE SOMETHING ELSE IN YOUR LIFE THAT IS FAR MORE VALUABLE OR REWARDING TO DO THAN THIS BICKERING DRIVEL

BORING NOW


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

FFS let's stop now! PERLEASE!


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

Not sure I agree a forum topic should be moderated because an OP requests it, let alone deleted, where does that end? However it's not my forum/decision but if it really goes against he grain I could move on?

Not me though...this time!!?!


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> I agree that sometimes threads can run a little bit of the original post


Nowt wrong with that - if there were a rule that threads could never veer off topic then most forums (fora?) would be about 90% smaller


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Where is Noah?

If he were a true Troll he would be in here gently goading everyone into a full scale internet forum post war.


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## LaCoruna (Nov 15, 2013)




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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

CamV6 said:


> Omg could,this whole thing get any more tiresome ?
> 
> Can everyone just ask themselves one simple question and answer it honestly and with a sense of proportion bearing in mind the world we live in beyond the front door and all the things going on in it..........here it comes.........brace yourselves...........
> 
> ...


plenty im off for a cycle ride, you coming?

in a Hunded years we will all be dead and none of this will matter, enjoy what you have


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