# Cleanliness - an unscientifc test



## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

For those of you that have seen the cleanliness is next to Godliness thread will know that @DavecUK advocates removing the shower screen (SS) for cleaning.

Others argue a backflush will do.

I usually remove the SS when I'm washing up however in the name of 'science' I've decided to run a test.

For 3 days I will backflush after every shot and will document at the end of each day how it looks.

I will do the same with no cleaning (eeek)

And my usual routine of quick wipe down of SS and wash at the end of the day.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

The machine before the test begins:


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

After one shot and backflush.

Will photograph after my last shot of the day.

Before the backflush:










After:


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

SS after backflush


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

Interesting topic, this... It is going to create very divisive opinions too. Do continue with your experiment, interested to know what conclusions you reach ☺

It is a subjective matter, so as long as it is clean enough for the user, in the sense that it isn't negatively affecting the cup taste, then I think everybody will have different cleanliness levels.

Then again, people have different perceptions of taste. People have different tolerance levels too.

From a hygiene perspective, IMHO there's no such thing as "too clean". I invest more time cleaning up than making coffee. That's me. I'm sure there are some who are cleaner than me, but many who are too busy or cannot be arsed to invest as much effort to uphold my level of cleanliness.

After every session, my routine is flush to get residue off the shower screen, then wipe with damp cloth. Then I backflush (not chemical). Chemical backflushing once every 100 shots (pid tells me to). Grouphead brush at the end of the day.

Every 3 days or so, I take the shower screen off, and soak the SS along with baskets in hot bath of cafiza. Before the soak, things look clean, but judging by how the water goes brown and murky, the soak in my eye is warranted.

I used the machine from new for 1 month with the standard rubber group head gasket. When I noticed that the smell was transferring onto the basket, I changed to Silicone. Part of the rubber gasket had melted/imprinted onto the Grouphead, which no matter how much I scrubbed, wouldn't come off. It took over a month of routine use and regular cleaning before the trace smell of that horrid rubber went away. Anyone who's sniffed the basket after it has been left locked in the hot grouphead might know the chemical rubber smell I'm on about..


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I forget to clean for too long then when I remember to do so I take the shower screen off and wrinkle my nose as how gross I let it get.

I repeat this process every once in a while.


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

With the E61 head, removing the shower cup also involves removing the group seal....so some damage is possible to the seal with frequent removals.


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

espressotechno said:


> With the E61 head, removing the shower cup also involves removing the group seal....so some damage is possible to the seal with frequent removals.


I understand what you mean.

My first E61 machine, my first attempt.. I was petrified that I was going to break, rip or scratch something... It was so stiff!

My little trick is to use a tiny bit of silicon lubricant (the same stuff as for Grouphead levers) smeared on the outer sides of the gasket. After doing this, it glides in, and glides out so easily, flimsiest of teaspoons will pull it out with minimal effort.

With so little force exerted, there's hardly any chance of accidentally breaking something. That in turn, allows me to frequently remove the shower head for regular cleaning ☺


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

u2jewel said:


> I understand what you mean.
> 
> My first E61 machine, my first attempt.. I was petrified that I was going to break, rip or scratch something... It was so stiff!
> 
> ...


Also if you keep the portafilter in as the gasket hardens over time, it doesn't fall out of the group and once it warms expansion keeps it there. The gaskets are so cheap anyway, people should change them more often. I bought a pack of 20 last time, which should last me a few years. I think they were 20 or 30p each.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

End of day 1...


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

I'm now out all day so no more coffee. Below are today's photos.

This is after 6 espresso, 4 yesterday, 2 this morning.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Day 3.

Another 4 coffees today, building up a bit now (particularly on the inside of the SS)


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

As backflush ia finished, here is day 1 v day 3 side by side images.

3 days, 10 coffees:

SS clean:










3 days later










Inside SS clean










3 days later










Underneath mushroom clean









3 days later


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## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

It must be killing you


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

When I click 'Like', I don't mean it. These pics set my teeth on edge


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

How's the taste day 3?


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

How many days till it tastes like *$ coffee?


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

To conclude (phase 1 of my very unscientific test), @DavecUK was correct again. Backflushing your machine does NOT do a good job of cleaning it.

Those results were after 3 days, 10 coffees. Thats it, 3 days. It certainly is worse than I anticipated.

Re taste; here it becomes even less scientific due to no blind testing. I'd say it gives the coffee a muted, stale flavour.

Which test next?

1) No cleaning (excited by the prospect of this one)

2) Backflush with chemicals every time.

3) 'aquire' one of those grouphead cleaners you attach like a pf. For the life of me I cannot recall what thats called.

4) Usual routine - clean with cloth after each coffee and wash up at the end of each day.


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

igm45 said:


> 2) Backflush with chemicals every time.


I don't want to say anything to dampen your enthusiasm. However, going above and beyond the recommended user instruction has its pros and cons.

Pro is obviously that your group head will be super clean. For cons.. There a couple I can think of..

Be prepared to lubricate the lever cam very soon. It will strip all the moving parts of the food grade Silicone grease, making the brew lever very stiff to move up and down. Left unmaintained, it will start to squeak, and make metal parts wear out prematurely if left untreated.

If you are familiar with the routine, cool. If not, we can all chip in to point you in the right direction (I learnt from YouTube) and give practical advice.

Secondly, I think this will take its toll on the rubber parts like seals and gaskets. I understand that this will be a short term experiment, so should be ok, but after the stint, you might want to check for wear, cracks or brittleness.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

u2jewel said:


> I don't want to say anything to dampen your enthusiasm. However, going above and beyond the recommended user instruction has its pros and cons.
> 
> Pro is obviously that your group head will be super clean. For cons.. There a couple I can think of..
> 
> ...


Love this forum,

Thank you for looking after me and my machine 

I chose to do this experiment when I was due to lubricate anyway.

Part of my cleaning and maintenance routine is to check the gasket/seal anyway.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

igm45 said:


> 3) 'aquire' one of those grouphead cleaners you attach like a pf. For the life of me I cannot recall what thats called.


Do you mean the cafelat cleaning brush?


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Dylan said:


> Do you mean the cafelat cleaning brush?


Yes,

Yes I do


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Cancel that,

I meant the espazolla

https://prima-coffee.com/equipment/protonea-senger/espazzola


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

igm45 said:


> Cancel that,
> 
> I meant the espazolla
> 
> https://prima-coffee.com/equipment/protonea-senger/espazzola


 @igm45 found a UK source of these?


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

ATZ said:


> @igm45 found a UK source of these?


Nope. Not particularly searched for one though.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Londinium sell them on their website


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

https://londiniumespresso.com/store/accessories/espazzola


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

igm45 said:


> Cancel that,
> 
> I meant the espazolla
> 
> https://prima-coffee.com/equipment/protonea-senger/espazzola


Use mine once or twice per day. It's all I do use, of course. And I don't remove the screen every day to clean, shock/horror! I checked it tonight and honestly, it was virtually as new. Hadn't removed/cleaned it since Friday night.


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## destiny (Jun 4, 2015)

MildredM said:


> Use mine once or twice per day. It's all I do use, of course. And I don't remove the screen every day to clean, shock/horror! I checked it tonight and honestly, it was virtually as new. Hadn't removed/cleaned it since Friday night.


How good are these? Does it work with any size group?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

destiny said:


> How good are these? Does it work with any size group?


E61 only, I would think. It cleans all round the screen and round that area. It doesn't back flush.


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> https://londiniumespresso.com/store/accessories/espazzola


24 quid!!!!!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

ATZ said:


> 24 quid!!!!!


You've omitted VAT


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Whilst deep cleaning this morning I realised that I omitted to mention one element of the experiment.

I ran the test naked (pf not me, dont get all excited @MildredM) and as expected the dirtier the machine the harder a decent extraction became. To the point that I had some dirty squirters and I don't mind telling you its been some time since I've had one of those!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

igm45 said:


> Whilst deep cleaning this morning I realised that I omitted to mention one element of the experiment.


and having read read the next bit I am wondering if it may have been wise to carry on omitting that one element. Do you have any more elements up your sleeve?



> I ran the test naked (pf not me, dont get all excited @MildredM) and as expected the dirtier the machine the harder a decent extraction became. To the point that I had some dirty squirters and I don't mind telling you its been some time since I've had one of those!


See! Look what happens if you're not scrupulously clean!


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## Prusev71 (Mar 19, 2015)

igm45 said:


> Whilst deep cleaning this morning I realised that I omitted to mention one element of the experiment.
> 
> I ran the test naked (pf not me, dont get all excited @MildredM) and as expected the dirtier the machine the harder a decent extraction became. To the point that I had some dirty squirters and I don't mind telling you its been some time since I've had one of those!


Which brand and model is your E61 machine?


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Prusev71 said:


> Which brand and model is your E61 machine?


Lelit PL62


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## floydo (Dec 22, 2017)

And what is behind the screen......

To add another simple cleaning step, remove the dispersion screw, wiping it and the area behind. Be careful on removal, using a good fitting (coin) if never previously removed. Use of a little silicone grease on the threads, lightly tightening makes the process easy in the future. Some pics...did not take a pic of the cleaned screw, but you get the idea. Warm water wipe can clean it up after initially soaking the screw in a cleaner. Now you are cleaning without chemicals washing the lubricant from the lever parts..


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## viveur (Oct 22, 2017)

destiny said:


> How good are these? Does it work with any size group?


I have the espazzola, using it with an E61 too (Expobar Leva DB).

It works quite well in getting bits of the shower screen - I used to use the cafelat grouphead brush for the sides, and a normal grouphead brush for the bottom of the shower screen, now I use just the espazzola. It doesn't seem to perform better or worse, but it's so much easier to use than fiddling around with two group brushes and having to look under the machine to make sure I've cleaned everything. Yes it's a touch expensive, but worth it for the convenience IMHO.

As others have mentioned, you'll still need to backflush separately (I do a quick clean with the espazolla and backflush water-only after every shot).

However I only take off the shower screen every 4 days or so (and soak in cafiza). If I don't clean for 6+ days I get off flavours in my coffee, but 4 days has been fine (and there's extremely little visible on the back of the shower screen at that point). Somehow even adding silicone grease hasn't made the grouphead much easier, otherwise I'd do it more often.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

floydo said:


> And what is behind the screen......
> 
> To add another simple cleaning step, remove the dispersion screw, wiping it and the area behind. Be careful on removal, using a good fitting (coin) if never previously removed. Use of a little silicone grease on the threads, lightly tightening makes the process easy in the future. Some pics...did not take a pic of the cleaned screw, but you get the idea. Warm water wipe can clean it up after initially soaking the screw in a cleaner. Now you are cleaning without chemicals washing the lubricant from the lever parts..


Is this counter threaded?

Seems somewhat tricky to move in either direction


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

igm45 said:


> Is this counter threaded?
> 
> Seems somewhat tricky to move in either direction


Looking at the pic it,s a standard right hand thread.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> Looking at the pic it,s a standard right hand thread.


Thanks, I thought as much.

Cannot get it off whilst machine is hot. Will try again later.


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