# Best bang for buck grinder to go with an R58



## W88 (Nov 25, 2017)

I bought an R58V 2 earlier this year.. I wanted a more base model but since my local dealer had a good stock of the r58 he gave me a very reasonable price.

So no grinder which is a bit like having a ferrari with no steering wheel...

Like the look of the eureka atom but its quite pricey - anyone had one that can recomend it? Other grinders I was considering eureka mignon and the sage pro. Countertops dont allow a huge hopper height...

Thanks in advance!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Not really if you can afford maybe the Zenith 65e at BB, 600 pounds is ok I would say

or this

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?40494-Brand-New-Boxed-Never-Used-Mazzer-Super-Jolly-Timer-Grinder


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Do you realise that the grinder is more important than the coffee machine? You can have an R58, La MArzocco, SLayer or Speedster......if you put badly ground coffee into it you will just produce a crap cup of coffee. You can have a brilliant grinder paired with a basic cheap machine and make a brilliant cup, but not the other way round


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## Stevied62 (Jun 19, 2016)

Agree with above post entirely I also find its much easier to make a good cup with a decent grinder

If i was buying from scratch again I would definitely spend the most on the grinder.


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## W88 (Nov 25, 2017)

so the eureka atom then... the zenith looks like a tank and weighs 13kg, bit sumo size for my kitchen. Is there a big difference between the atom and the mignon.. to warrant paying double the price? I mean 50mm to 60mm burs hard to imgaine a noticeable difference.


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## MatBat (Feb 15, 2017)

Although the above two posts are correct, I'm not sure they are partcuaurly helpful to the OP. Yes he has a great machine, but is asking for advice on spending ~£600 on a new grinder which is a hefty budget and should be enough to get great results with the R58...

not sure I can offer much help but have heard the zenith 65e is a solid grinder, as with the Atom. A second hand Olympus 75 would be even better however they don't come up here all too often.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

MatBat said:


> Although the above two posts are correct, I'm not sure they are partcuaurly helpful to the OP. Yes he has a great machine, but is asking for advice on spending ~£600 on a new grinder which is a hefty budget and should be enough to get great results with the R58...
> 
> not sure I can offer much help but have heard the zenith 65e is a solid grinder, as with the Atom. A second hand Olympus 75 would be even better however they don't come up here all too often.


Sorry to disagree with you but my advice is particularly relevant. It will make the op realise that to get anything like the best from his Rocket he needs to substantially up his budget if he wants to buy new, or consider used. I speak as someone with a fair bit of experience and when giving advice, I give it from that experience and not a guess, like your advice.

When the op has sat and thought, if he then tells us how much he wants to spend, advice as to what to buy will be given


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## MatBat (Feb 15, 2017)

Want to give some specific examples on what he should consider then? And why £600 isn't going to cut it in your opinion?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Sure, if buying new, then all you will get is a 65mm burr size grinder. Things have moved on and the old 65mm is now 75mm or 83mm if you have the dosh. With the exception of some Mahlkonig 65mm burrs, things have moved on so why would you not buy something from the top end unless finance dictates. You will taste the difference between small burrs and bigger burrs although some will see that as a generalisation.

Used will open up the market a bit more but to get an 83mm Compak or Ceado will take a bit more, but there again a Fiorenzato 83mm will be cheaper than both of those two


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> Sure, if buying new, then all you will get is a 65mm burr size grinder. Things have moved on and the old 65mm is now 75mm or 83mm if you have the dosh. With the exception of some Mahlkonig 65mm burrs, things have moved on so why would you not buy something from the top end unless finance dictates. You will taste the difference between small burrs and bigger burrs although some will see that as a generalisation.
> 
> Used will open up the market a bit more but to get an 83mm Compak or Ceado will take a bit more, but there again a Fiorenzato 83mm will be cheaper than both of those two


 @W88 mentions height is an issue which could easily rule out the best commercial grinders regardless of price.

Without knowing the max clearance, it's gonna be difficult for anyone to advise unless they have experiance of the atom. Isuspect it would be better than both the mignon & sage pro though.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

ashcroc said:


> @W88 mentions height is an issue which could easily rule out the best commercial grinders regardless of price.


The Ceado E37S is as small as they come......we need more info to help.......it is all a bit vague


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

Yep your defiantly generalising, the k30 is IMHO better than the Major and compak K/E/F8, the reason for this can probably be explained by a somewhat more precise alignment and vastly superior burrs.

And Yes I owned those, never fancied Mazzer that has an absolutely horrible construction if you care for alignment and Compak isn't really any better. Well not the ones I owned anyway.

However I do agree with you, that you can get vastly more for the money if you buy secondhand/used

It is not entirely without reason Mazzer finaly is on the way to replace its dreadful collar adjustment if what was shown at expo come to fruition


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@malling......mahlkonig have lead burr design but their grinders are crap (and that is not generalisation!)


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## W88 (Nov 25, 2017)

Hi again fellows...

Being a new member there seems to be a delay in my posts reaching the thread so dont know if this ends up in the right place conversation wise. The grinder is for my out of UK home... plenty of good cafes in London with fresh beans etc but very hard to find in middle east! I have to take the grinder on plane hence 13kg is a realy pain in the ***. The R58 barely fits under the cupbaords above the counter top there is a (without measuring) a few cm to spare but I have a pipe and funnel to get the water tank filled up..! Hence atom and mignon being in my sights. Also having looked at a few grinders in that price range eureka seem to have the best adjustment technology. Open to being corrected if wrong...


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## W88 (Nov 25, 2017)

49cm clearance folks... again thank you all for the input. Local dealer has most of the range of compak mega grinders but they are pricey and the only one that had the nice looking grind adjustment was like £1k... the other compaks have what looks like the mazzer way of adjusting (coming from someone who has never owned a proper grinder ;-)


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## W88 (Nov 25, 2017)

How is the nuova simonelli MDJ looks like a clone of the eureka zenith (same factory i think) but specs say 3kgs lighter...? Perhaps a plastic body?


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

Mahlkonig are by no means worse than the rest of the pack, not a single one of the major manufacturers is capable of grinding light roasts when hopper fed. I basically stalled every note worthy mazzer model, top end Compaks and Mahlkonigs, I experienced Mythos stalling and Chocking with the roast i prefer.

The only good thing about Mazzer is that it can be abused, but that is also the only positive thing I have to say about them.

Mahlkonig bulk work quite well and can handle the same abuse as Mazzer, if not more, probably because Mahlkonig have a long tradition in building those grinders, it might be due to the workers having the necessary know how, Mahlkonig is not a traditional espresso grinder manufacturer, those products is something they started to build quite recent. The k30 is in most aspect not really a Mahlkonig production, to my knowledge most part of the k30 is made by suppliers and the grinding chamber it self is a Ditting product.

Mahlkonig is mostly just assembling it.

And one explanation for our negative experience and findings, is related to user errors as we tend to use them not as designed. Eg. SD espresso grinders, using a roast that the grinder is not design for, most grinders are designed for either medium or medium dark roasts so isn't built to handle anything "lighter" or when we decide to go agains the guidelines of on/off circles pointed out in the manual.

Bulk grinders aren't build to handle short on/off usage, so when you decide to do exactly that your putting the grinder under a type of stress it is not designed for.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

But a K30 is underpowered which if they fixed, would go a long way towards the stalling of lighter roasted beans


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

only critizing Mahlkonig for it, seems just a little odd, as pretty much all grinders are underpowered, something that is well known in the industry, as I pointed out I have manage to stalled every single one I ever laid my hands on, mahlkonig is by no means more prone to stalling with very light roasts, all grinders stall as those type of grinders are not designed to handle it, those are designed for the avarage cafe where their main profit is, not the home market nor the speciality industry that only make up a fraction


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## Floss (Dec 13, 2016)

75mm Atom coming out early next year.


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## W88 (Nov 25, 2017)

Why aren't my replies coming into the thread...??

Is is there really going to be a huge difference between a zenith and a mignon for home use?


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## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

... just a minor point to add to the mix: where height is a restriction, you don't need to keep the hopper on your grinder (and probably many of us don't), as it's completely superfluous for single shot grinding.


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## W88 (Nov 25, 2017)

Apparently the system thought I was a robot hence no reply from me till now! I found a mignon at what seems a good price £275 for the chrome model new, I have ordered it. Small size wins the day however I will watch out for the 75mm burr atom next year.

Having watched the Seattle coffee gear comparison vid on YouTube it seems the mignon has an excellent grind comparable to larger machines however does seem to have some clumping...


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Clumping is overemphasised as a 'problem'. The forces that hold the particles together are pretty weak. The Mignon has had this reputation for clumping and still remains the most recommended grinder in its price/size class on here. When you tamp, the clumps will all break up. If you still find that the clumps are causing channeling due to uneven density of the tamped puck, you can always WDT. A cork with a couple of pins stuck in the bottom is all you need to break up any clumps. If you find that fixes the 'problem' but feel the cork is too Heath Robinson you can put a Londinium whisk on your Christmas list, I think they're about £25 or so.


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## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

W88 said:


> Apparently the system thought I was a robot hence no reply from me till now! I found a mignon at what seems a good price £275 for the chrome model new, I have ordered it. Small size wins the day however I will watch out for the 75mm burr atom next year.
> 
> Having watched the Seattle coffee gear comparison vid on YouTube it seems the mignon has an excellent grind comparable to larger machines however does seem to have some clumping...


Hi

Out of interest, where did you find the chrome for £275?

Cheers


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

everything is additional faff, but you could grind into a container and shake the clumps out. They fall apart pretty easily and will help with the distribution into the pf. I used to use a metal cup that fitted inside the pf basket, but the basket over the cup once you have de clumped, then invert. Once you get used to it you end up with a nice mound to tamp.


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## W88 (Nov 25, 2017)

Hmmm faff indeed... would have thought the clumps press out with a good tamp... life is too short to waste precious social media browsing time on coffee ;-) lol

Salty and any others interested:

https://www.maxicoffee.com/moulin-cafe-eureka-mignon-istantaneo-chrome-p-3759.html?osCsid=1dhpaajuoseled4n6667oupd21

Please bear in mind I have not received my order yet and will update once it gets here.. also the plug is bound to be European...

had a look on on their site and they also have the silver one for GBP equiv of 260 ish (296 euro) with free shipping so prices seem good but hey if you have to return anything your bound to have to pay extra to ship it to France so there's some give and take either way


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