# Steam tip solution for cherub!



## shrink

Finally got somewhere with my steam tip dilemma

The standard tip is 4x 1.5mm holes

The two hole tip is 2x 1mm. Meaning that in it is abut four to five times less powerful. Not ideal.

Fracino told me they sell no other tips. Which isn't entirely true (naughty fracino?)

Because they also make a 4x 1mm tip for londinium

http://londiniumespresso.com/products/two-hole-steam-wand-tip

I suspect this is exactly what I've been looking for to get the compromise between too much and too little.

Now to find out who will sell me one!


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## Glenn

shrink said:


> they also make a 4x 1mm tip for londinium
> 
> http://londiniumespresso.com/products/two-hole-steam-wand-tip
> 
> I suspect this is exactly what I've been looking for to get the compromise between too much and too little.
> 
> Now to find out who will sell me one!


Try Londinium Espresso


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## shrink

I thought londinium were really fussy about only selling to known owners?

You think they'll sell a tip?

The four hole tip they sell has 44% of the power of the standard tip, and double the power of my two hole tip. Which sounds like exactly what I'm looking for


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## Glenn

Its in the web shop...

If in doubt call the number on the site. Reiss is very approachable


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## shrink

Thanks Glenn, ill do just that


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## shrink

Well... Ordered from londinium. Watch this space!


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## Eyedee

Do you know if this will fit my Piccino

Ian


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## shrink

Should do. Fracino use tons of the same parts across the range, and the steam wand looks identical to me


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## origmarm

Very interesting. Shrink let me know how you get on as I have exactly this dilemma between the 2 and the 4 also.


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## shrink

I'd say it'll be perfect. I can do good stuff with the two hole now, but a little extra power wouldn't go amiss. Just don't need the brutality of the standard four hole!


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## Steve_S_T

Look forward to seeing the outcome of this one Shrink.

Steve.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## thomss

Yeah, please let us know how you get on - I have a single, double and four hole tip with my Cherub.


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## shrink

Looking at londiniums stats is interesting. The two hole tip having only 22% the surface area of the standard 4 hole tip. The new 4 hole tip should have 44% which seems a perfect compromise!


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## lespresso

you can feel yourself getting old with the 2x1mm, unless you are new to the game or running very small amounts of milk

of course we'll sell you a 4x1mm!


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## origmarm

I wanted to try some beans so I ordered them and one of these also. Will also report back


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## gman147

The 4 hole has the power of a Jumbo Jet engine turbine!

Im finding it hilarious how quickly the temp gauge moves!


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## origmarm

As an update received my 4*1MM tip today so I will likely try it tomorrow/Thurs. I'll report back then on it but it looks good.

Ordered 2 bags beans which look the part. Reiss threw in an extra bag of Malawi (new customer) also which is very much appreciated. Overall a very positive experience so far.


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## shrink

Nothing arrived at this end yet







but my new LM 17-18g basket arrived.


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## gman147

Shrink, it would be ace to see all these tips in action. Maybe a little youtube vid?


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## shrink

You'll be lucky... Would need someone to hold the camera









Just get yourself a few.. Hayley at fracino told me that will sell them direct from spares. You could buy the two you don't have including postage for about £12 lol


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## gman147

Peter from *'espresso underground'* is sending me a 2 hole tip for free!







That guy is a legend!


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## shrink

You did better than me on price and on accessories!!


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## gman147

Haha, he is a top bloke for sure  Now get that youtube vid going


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## origmarm

So I tried the new tip this morning and results are much as expected i.e. probably 50% more powerful than the two hole but still about half the original four hole. For my money it's about ideal i.e. it slows it down enough for small volumes of milk but it's faster and I feel textures better. A+ from me.

As an aside I find Fracino's approach to stuff like this very strange. For example the two hole tip they sell and the 'bottomless' portafilter (another story there) are not listed on their website etc... but if you phone them they are available. This four hole tip, while clearly made by them and available, does not exist according to them, yet clearly does. I understand that manufacturers make things for third parties (i.e. L1 as I understand it) that you wouldn't necessarily sell direct due to commercial agreements but I wouldn't imagine that stuff like steam tips would fall into that category. Especially when one of them (2 hole) appears to be available direct but not the other. Very strange...


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## Steve_S_T

origmarm said:


> As an aside I find Fracino's approach to stuff like this very strange. For example the two hole tip they sell and the 'bottomless' portafilter (another story there) are not listed on their website etc... but if you phone them they are available. This four hole tip, while clearly made by them and available, does not exist according to them.


They strike me as a slightly old school operation. Their operation is set up over several separate factory units on one industrial estate and the buildings are a bit tired, including a few letters of the Fracino sign being missing. I visited then and picked up a 1, 2 and 4 hole tip prior to the arrival of my heavenly and they are kept in one of those plastic draw type units that you might keep screws in for DIY purposes. The one hole had obviously been rolling around for a whole as some of the chrome was worn off, and when the last at the trade counter handed them to me she'd given me two 2 holes because they were all mixed up. She also had never heard of the bottomless portafilter needing an 8.5mm gasket to work without leaks. They are doing a job to earn a living and not because they are coffee machine enthusiasts, and that shows at times.

Steve.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


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## The Systemic Kid

Steve_S_T said:


> They strike me as a slightly old school operation. Their operation is set up over several separate factory units on one industrial estate and the buildings are a bit tired, including a few letters of the Fracino sign being missing. I visited then and picked up a 1, 2 and 4 hole tip prior to the arrival of my heavenly and they are kept in one of those plastic draw type units that you might keep screws in for DIY purposes. The one hole had obviously been rolling around for a whole as some of the chrome was worn off, and when the last at the trade counter handed them to me she'd given me two 2 holes because they were all mixed up. She also had never heard of the bottomless portafilter needing an 8.5mm gasket to work without leaks. They are doing a job to earn a living and not because they are coffee machine enthusiasts, and that shows at times. Steve.


Your post reminds me of the mad, bad 1970s when British industry/engineering was a joke. Anyone remember BLMC and the Morris Marina with its suspension lifted from the pre-war Morris Minor design? But I would not agree that Francino are in it, 'to earn a living and not because they are coffee machine enthusiasts'. They build great and value for money machines; they also make the Lonidinium which is beautifully put together. I guess British industry just can't shake off that 'men in brown lab coats' image which is a shame because Francino are actually doing pretty well and exporting machines all over the world including Italy as this link shows.

http://www.midlandsbusinessnews.co.uk/2013/02/fracino-crowed-uks-number-1-manufacturer-and-uks-outstanding-exporter/


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## series530

I suspect its less an issue of "old school" and more an issue of "growing pain". Three or four years ago they really were a small player. I get the impression that once Adrian took the helm and Frank took more of a back seat, there has been a drive to increase the order book especially through export. Old established companies (Fracino is 50 years old through various incarnations) has always been a family business. Businesses tend to change over night either through a forced event (administration, for example) or through the introduction of new people who wipe away the old practises. I suspect that, with Adrian following on from his father, there is a reluctance or even an inability to make a step change in the way that they operate. If it works, why change it? So, I see Fracino changing through evolution rather than revolution and, in many ways, they are doing a pretty decent job already. It will look old fashioned to many (especially people who work in large multi national companies) but, somehow, pretty effective to others.

As I see it, their endeavours are to be applauded: how many companies are expanding business while still manufacturing in our British industrial heart lands while, in the main, giving customers what they want, at affordable prices and with decent service?


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## RoloD

I think the other thing to remember is that modern computer controlled engineering enables a company like Fracino to make a handful of steaming tips for Londinium - or even one-offs. Because they make them, doesn't mean it is a 'stock item', so don't be surprised if it's not in the catalogue. In a way Fracino are the exact opposite of an old style British company - they are lean and flexible.

And why would anyone expect a lady on the trade counter to be a 'coffee machine enthusiast'? Do you expect an architect to serve you at Wickes?


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## shrink

Still not received my tip from londinium







sad times


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## Steve_S_T

The Systemic Kid said:


> I would not agree that Francino are in it, 'to earn a living and not because they are coffee machine enthusiasts'.
> 
> http://www.midlandsbusinessnews.co.uk/2013/02/fracino-crowed-uks-number-1-manufacturer-and-uks-outstanding-exporter/


I didn't really mean the whole company sorry, that was down to my badly phrasing that part of my post, I was referring to the people manning the trade counter. It would be unfair of me to comment on any other employees as I didn't see any let alone meet them.

Steve.


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## Steve_S_T

RoloD said:


> And why would anyone expect a lady on the trade counter to be a 'coffee machine enthusiast'? Do you expect an architect to serve you at Wickes?


I'm in the building trade and wouldn't use Wickes at all unless desperate







Anyway, I don't recall saying that I *expected* her to be an enthusiast, I stated that she wasn't an enthusiast to (perhaps) explain a lack of in depth knowledge about some of the stuff she was selling. To be clear my previous post wasn't a criticism of Fracino, it was merely my observations, some fact, some opinion.

Steve.


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## series530

I'm NOT in the building trade and I wouldn't use Wickes either !!


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## RoloD

Neither would I.

Actually, if trade counters were all staffed by enthusiasts, life would get a little wearing.


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## origmarm

RoloD said:


> I think the other thing to remember is that modern computer controlled engineering enables a company like Fracino to make a handful of steaming tips for Londinium - or even one-offs. Because they make them, doesn't mean it is a 'stock item', so don't be surprised if it's not in the catalogue. In a way Fracino are the exact opposite of an old style British company - they are lean and flexible


Overall I think the company does a very good job, especially in terms of the value they offer. For me though it's exactly this, if you can run off a handful fairly easily, why not run off an additional 10 and just put them in as a stock item? If someone else is requesting them, presumably it means there's a market of some kind and it just seems an easy win for me. That and I find some of their business practices a little questionable. The whole 25% restocking for parts for example.

Overall A grade company. Very easily could be an A+ though with very little effort is what I'm getting at. All the gripes are very minor indeed in the grand scheme of things.


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## lespresso

im not trying to cause trouble, but has anyone actually made a formal request to the company for this item to be made available?

i could be wrong, but i would be surprised if they turned you down for a request for the 4x1mm tip

get on the phone, or email, and see what comes back - if you draw a blank let me know

you might also be surprised at the lack of interest in 'coffee' at the trade counter if you visit a few manufacturers in europe - a bit silly to single fracino out unless you have a basis for comparison

here's what first caught my eye about fracino - they give you a machine with serious grunt, yet no one seems to remark on it here - go & compare the specs with their more illustrious competitors

if you've got any interest in owning a machine that you can open the steam wand to full throttle & never run out of steam and make an espresso at the same time on an 'entry-mid range' price point you should at least consider a fracino

and should something fail you can look forward to not waiting weeks/months for a replacement


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## shrink

Oh I've always agreed about the value fracino represent. The nearest machine in my eyes, is the rocket cellini, and that's a good £500-600 more expensive. Yes it may be a little more polished overall, but it won't make a better coffee. I've been delighted with fracinos support.

For what it's worth Reiss, when I spoke to fracino about steam tips, they quite clearly stated that no others were available aside from the two hole or the standard tip. I guess if pushed again, they may change their mind on this item.


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## lespresso

i think its worth asking again - dial (1) for sales & ask for Hayley

we also plan to offer a 4 x 1.2mm when fracino have time to make it - there just so may things happening at Fracino at the moment that we have to be a little bit patient


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## shrink

Not fancy trying a three hole tip?

Surely the two hole and four hole solutions available cover most of the bases. Might be intesting to see the potential for milk folding that could come from a three hole tip


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## lespresso

I'm sure this will generate more heat than light, but in my opinion it is large holes that are difficult for inexperienced operators, not a large number of holes (as long as the holes are small enough)

So&#8230; the tip i want to make is a 6 hole tip with perhaps 0.7mm holes

(a larger number of holes distributes the steam through a greater volume of milk i think)

The trouble is when you drop below 1.0mm drill bits you bust a lot of drill bits, so its a bit of a hard sell to Fracino, understandably


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## shrink

interesting!

i think the problem as home users, is that you're generally steaming very small amounts of milk. The Cherub/Londinium with a standard 4x 1.5mm tip, absolutely blasts through milk and would have no trouble frothing a reasonable sized jug of milk. But to control that in the home environment is a lot harder.

I thought the two hole tip would be the answer, but as many have said, it goes too far the other way. Its massively restrictive and a bit too slow. something inbetween is what is required.

would you get enough force from a 6x 0.7mm tip to get a nice whilrlpool?


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## lespresso

yes, its the total surface area that matters not the number of holes

i.e. a small reduction in the diameter of the hole makes a big difference to the surface area

its so dramatic that we'll probably settle for a 6 x 1.0mm

example surface areas:

4 x 1.5mm = 7.07sqmm

6 x 1.0mm = 4.71sqmm

4 x 1.2mm = 4.52sqmm

6 x 0.9mm = 3.82sqmm

4 x 1.0mm = 3.14sqmm

2 x 1.0mm = 1.57sqmm

you can feel yourself growing old with the 2 x 1.0mm i think

the surface area figures give you a clear picture of why the 4 x 1.5mm is a bit much for small volumes of milk


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## series530

I cannot comment from experience as yet because although I have an additional tip I don't have the Cherub to go with it.

If I think about my experiences with the Gaggia, the speed of milk frothing was about acceptable for home use. The issue was that it wasn't possible to do milk frothing at the same time or even in close time proximity to espresso extraction.

Most of us in a domestic situation, and I could find myself wrong when I get to play with my machine, will find the ability to do two jobs together or very near apart more than a match of having milk steaming that little bit slower than ideal. Unless that is, people are saying that a two hole tip is much slower than a Gaggia with a steam wand addition would end up faster than the Fracino with a two hole tip?


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## shrink

oh god no... even with the two hole tip the cherub completely destroys the gaggia for steam power, consistency and quantity (nice dry steam). it'll just keep on giving you steam for as long as you have the valve open! But theres the definite feeling that the two hole tip holds the machine back, whereas on the gaggia, it could just about keep up with its single hole tip.

with the standard 1.5mm 4 hole tip, it has enough steam power to move a small locomotive i suspect.

I havent timed it exactly, but suspect with the two hole tip, it takes me about 30 seconds or so to steam milk. With the 4 hole tip, its more like 10 seconds! Blink and i've got huge froth


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## origmarm

lespresso said:


> yep, its the total surface area that matters not the number of holes
> 
> i.e. a small reduction in the diameter of the hole makes a big difference to the surface area
> 
> its so dramatic that we'll probably settle for a 6 x 1.0mm
> 
> example surface areas:
> 
> 4 x 1.5mm = 28.3sqmm
> 
> 4 x 1.2mm = 18.1sqmm
> 
> 4 x 1.0mm = 12.6sqmm
> 
> 6 x 1.0mm = 18.8sqmm
> 
> 6 x 0.9mm = 15.3sqmm
> 
> you can feel yourself growing old with the 2 x 1.0mm i think (6.3sqmm)
> 
> the surface area figures give you a clear picture of why the 4 x 1.5mm is a bit much for small volumes of milk





origmarm said:


> *So I tried the new tip this morning and results are much as expected i.e. probably 50% more powerful than the two hole but still about half the original four hole*. For my money it's about ideal i.e. it slows it down enough for small volumes of milk but it's faster and I feel textures better. A+ from me


Based on the above it looks like I was about right with the estimate. 6*1 would work well also I think as I still find the 4 * 1.5MM agressive even for larger volumes. I can deal with it but you have to be on the ball which is not necessarily the case for my morning (5.30AM typically at the moment







) coffee.


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## shrink

lespresso said:


> yep, its the total surface area that matters not the number of holes
> 
> i.e. a small reduction in the diameter of the hole makes a big difference to the surface area
> 
> its so dramatic that we'll probably settle for a 6 x 1.0mm
> 
> example surface areas:
> 
> 4 x 1.5mm = 28.3sqmm
> 
> 4 x 1.2mm = 18.1sqmm
> 
> 4 x 1.0mm = 12.6sqmm
> 
> 6 x 1.0mm = 18.8sqmm
> 
> 6 x 0.9mm = 15.3sqmm
> 
> you can feel yourself growing old with the 2 x 1.0mm i think (6.3sqmm)
> 
> the surface area figures give you a clear picture of why the 4 x 1.5mm is a bit much for small volumes of milk


superb post.. thanks









the standard tip, has larger holes than is found on an LM commercial machine. Its all a bit much for my morning latte


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## gman147

I can tow a broken down car with my 4 x 1.5mm tip


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## Steve_S_T

Finally tried my standard Fracino 4 hole tonight. It certainly steams the milk quickly and, based on two tries, is ideal for creating Cappuccinos as it generates so much foam. I'll persevere with it until the 4 x 1mm to that I just ordered from Londinium arrives. All good fun.

Steve.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## lespresso

please note my correction to surface areas above. what a plonker.


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## shrink

lespresso said:


> please note my correction to surface areas above. what a plonker.


Busy week?


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## lespresso

no excuses. less haste, more speed, comes to mind. sorry.


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## gman147

We won't hold it against you. Haha


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## origmarm

lespresso said:


> please note my correction to surface areas above. what a plonker.


Looking back I'm amazed I didn't notice that. Big multiplier! Relationship still holds which was the point though.


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## gman147

Ok just used the 2x1mm tip... Gawd, it's awful. Feels like the machine has no power. Think I'll go back to the 4x1.5mm until I hear feedback about the 4x1mm


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## shrink

I get on very well with my two hole tip. You think it's low o power but actually you can get a very nice whirlpool going. It's not for huge amounts of milk, but for my little 12oz rattleware jug it's lovely. Not saying its perfect, but I get much better milk with that, than I do with the oem.


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## gman147

Yeah got a little 8oz pitcher from the charity shop down the road for 50p earlier! Got lovely milk using it with the 2 hole!


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## gman147

p.s really love those cachoeira beans!


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## series530

First day with the Cherub (a proper write up will come later) and I find the two hole tip fine. Much better than the steam wand on the Gaggia.


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## shrink

poona said:


> p.s really love those cachoeira beans!


They are my favourite offering from hasbean. The most sweet and rich tasting of all the ones I've tried.


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## gman147

Yeah they're fantastic.

P.s Ian, put the 4 hole tip on and see how you go


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## shrink

well today i got the 4x1mm tip. Its excellent!!!

its very much what I expected it to be. Far far more forceful than the 2 hole tip, but without the rowdiness of the standard tip.

In fact even this 4 hole tip provides quite a blast for milk in small containers, but its easilly managed and even first time, gave me lovely microfoam.

this feels more like the 4 hole tip on the LM commercial machine I used!


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## gman147

Sounds like it could very well be the next purchase!


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## gman147

Londinium 4x1mm tip arrived and I have to say that it is a MUST purchase for the machine. The 4x1.5mm it too powerful and the 2x1mm is too wimpy and doesn't get the milk whirl pooling fast enough. The 4x1mm is a great compromise between power and finesse. They also sent me a free bag of beans which I wasn't expecting. bonus!!!


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## gman147

p.s If I get time, I'll do a youtube vid of all 3 steam hole tips in action.


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## thomss

That would be cool!


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## Steve_S_T

I'm still struggling to find the difference between the two different four hole tips. Even the 4 x 1mm is too fierce for steaming the very small quantity of milk I use for my own drinks, creating too much froth BUT ........ it's Sunday tomorrow so might just have a more scientific experiment with them all.

Steve.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## Eyedee

If your problem is too much froth surely that means you are putting too much air into the milk. Try inducing air right at the beginning of the steam process then drop the steam tip below the surface to try and texture that air into the milk. If I use a thermometer I only let air in up to about 15degrees. Too much air will probably look like an ice cream cone on top of your drink









Ian


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## Steve_S_T

Eyedee said:


> If your problem is too much froth surely that means you are putting too much air into the milk. Try inducing air right at the beginning of the steam process then drop the steam tip below the surface to try and texture that air into the milk. If I use a thermometer I only let air in up to about 15degrees. Too much air will probably look like an ice cream cone on top of your drink
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ian


Although I don't get it right all of the time I do know how to create frothy and less frothy milk with a steam wand. My "problem" is that when I'm using the four hole tip on 30/40ml of milk I don't have the same level of control, or more accurately the time to gain control because it's "cooked" in just a few seconds, so for those occasions I switch back to the two hole.

Steve.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## gman147

30 mls of milk?! Why so little? That's only like 6 teaspoons of milk. I think you could froth that better by blowing on it with a straw mate


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## Steve_S_T

poona said:


> 30 mls of milk?! Why so little? That's only like 6 teaspoons of milk. I think you could froth that better by blowing on it with a straw mate


Erm, because that's the amount of milk I like sometimes I suppose, why else?

Steve.


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## shrink

It's really hard to steam such a small amount of milk. You can go with the 2 hole tip which will help, but ultimately sometimes it's easier to accept a little wastage and steam 50-60ml


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## Steve_S_T

shrink said:


> It's really hard to steam such a small amount of milk. You can go with the 2 hole tip which will help, but ultimately sometimes it's easier to accept a little wastage and steam 50-60ml


I have a lifelong love of milk and a lifelong aversion to wasting the stuff for some strange reason. It all works fine with the two hole so I just switch tips around which is not the most laborious of chores. If you think about it btw, the end result of 30/ 40ml milk mixed with a 30g shot is pretty much a Cortado by definition, so not unusual other than not steaming 60ml and throwing 20ml or so of froth and milk away.

Steve.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## gman147

Yeah it's not like milk is that expensive anyway it's worth the little waste to gain the quality of the foam


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## thomss

Just ordered the smaller 4 hole tip for my Cherub, looking forward to having a try!


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## gman147

Best investment you will have spent for it. Its a fantastic wand tip!


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## lookseehear

Would anyone be able to measure the thread on the Londinium/Fracino tip? I am looking for a 4x1mm hole tip for my duetto and wonder if this would fit.


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## MrDecaf

Just thought I'd give an update. Phoned Fracino today and they have 4x1.0mm and 2x1.5mm tips only. 2.50 each (+VAT I suspect) though the minimum order value is 10.00 which is a bit of a blocker when you just want one tip...


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## thomss

Yeah the 4x 1mm is absolutely the boy like, I'm still getting used to it but already getting fantastic textured microfoam! Sticking with this tip now


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## origmarm

Which is strange as they quite happily sent me a 2*1.0mm tip a while back no problem. They however refused to supply me head gaskets in units of less than 5. I ended up getting them from Espresso Underground who did a great job. I think this company is great in so many ways but a bit of consistency in supply and service would go a long way. Awesome machines etc... and want to support a British company but it's little things like this that make me laugh a bit.

**Edit - I reckon it strongly depends on who you get on the phone as to what reply you get on many things


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## beedj

So I still haven't mastered consistently good microfoam from my Cherub 2-hole tip - though unsure whether this is jug-related (i'm usually using small milk quantities in a large jug), technique, or the 2-hole tip being 'wrong' - I suspect a combination but mostly down to bad technique 

I'm in process of acquiring a Motta or Rattleware 12oz jug which will be better suited to the volumes of milk I typically want to use - any thoughts on whether I should bite the bullet and acquire a 4-hole tip now and develop my technique with this and the new jug which would be my 'permanent' setup ? ....or stick to using the 2-hole with the new jug then graduate to 4-hole once I've mastered technique with 2-hole ?


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## shrink

well in the end I gave up on the two hole as it was just too slow. The 4x1mm tip is the best all rounder. Its a genuinely great balance of power and finesse on the cherub. Peter at espresso underground informs me that he's able to get these at a competitive price, so it would be worth contacting him if you're after something different.

For the record, these tips are universal across the Fracino range, so this applies to those of you with a Piccino too, although with the smaller steam boiler, the two hole tip may be a better overall idea.

Its nice to see Fracino adjusting with the times and offering good compromise tips between their old 4x1.5mm which was brutal and the 2x1mm which was far too slow. I'd be interested to try a 2x1.5mm versus my 4x1mm. But reality is, the 4x1mm is perfect for me.


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## aphelion

shrink said:


> well in the end I gave up on the two hole as it was just too slow. The 4x1mm tip is the best all rounder. Its a genuinely great balance of power and finesse on the cherub. Peter at espresso underground informs me that he's able to get these at a competitive price, so it would be worth contacting him if you're after something different.
> 
> For the record, these tips are universal across the Fracino range, so this applies to those of you with a Piccino too, although with the smaller steam boiler, the two hole tip may be a better overall idea.
> 
> Its nice to see Fracino adjusting with the times and offering good compromise tips between their old 4x1.5mm which was brutal and the 2x1mm which was far too slow. I'd be interested to try a 2x1.5mm versus my 4x1mm. But reality is, the 4x1mm is perfect for me.


Yeah, I've found the 4 x 1mm tip to work pretty good.

I'm happy enough with the strength (its still potent)


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## gman147

Yeah same here for the 4x1.

If I'm steaming a large amount of milk then I simply just pop on the 4x1.5


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## MrDecaf

And just when you thought the steam tip solution couldn't get any more complicated, Fracino are now offering 4x1.2mm tips. So they now have 4x1mm, 4x1.2mm and 4x1.5mm tips along with the 2x1.0mm tips. All have just been manufactured, plated and are now in stock.

EspressoUnderground have the 4x1.0 and the 2x1.0 tips in at 2.45+VAT plus 4.80 postage.


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## shrink

4x 1.2 sounds interesting.

I think it was reiss at londinium that did some basic sums suggesting the volume of steam output dependent on the surface area of each tip.

if you took the beast 4x1.5mm as 100%, the 2x1mm was 22%, the 4x1mm was 44%. So i'd guess the 4x1.2mm is an attempt to get nearer the 50-60% mark.

Im not sure its enough of a difference to make me want to try one. I get just lovely milk from the 4x1mm tip.


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## gman147

Yeah to be fair with the small amounts of milk that I steam, I've just about enough time to get a long roll after stretching as the Cherub serves so much steam power that even through the 4x1mm, time is precious and you need to be very adept. It most certainly has made me so much more skilled than when I had my Silvia. I'd like to try the 4x1.2 but only out of curiosity but I think it may be a step too far toward the rowdy massacre of the 4x1.5, I think the 4x1 is perfect and you could even argue that perhaps a 4x.08 or .09 would be excellent.


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## MrDecaf

EspressoUnderground now has all the tips in stock:


4 x 1.2

4 x 1.0

2 x 1.0


http://www.espressounderground.co.uk/fracino%20parts.html

I've order a set of all three sizes. Worked out at just under 15 quid delivered (2.45 per tip + postage + VAT) which is quite reasonable considering the price from either Londinium or direct from Fracino.

Happy frothing!


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## Steve_S_T

Initially I used to switch nozzles (4 x 1.2, 4 x 1 and 2 x 1.0) according to the amount of milk I wanted to steam but revisiting this thread it has just occurred to me that I stick entirely to the 4 x 1mm for all steaming now. It still works better for larger quantities if I'm honest but I can control it well enough for really small amounts.

Steve.


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## nekromantik

anyone know any cheaper place to get 4 x 1mm?


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## coffeechap

Is thevthread internal or external on the tip as I might have one you can have


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## nekromantik

coffeechap said:


> Is thevthread internal or external on the tip as I might have one you can have


Not sure I not got my Cherub yet.

I will let you know once I get it next week.

Thanks


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