# X54 vs Mazzer Mini



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

This might be a bit of a contentious one. Also I appreciate the X54 is brand new and there's not a huge amount of info yet.

I recently-ish bought a doser Mazzer Mini. Admittedly it was bought against the general advice and extensive Googling which well documented its shortcomings for the home.

I've used it multiple times a day for a couple of months and in terms of grind quality and the resulting coffee, I love it. I love how it looks and I love that it's built like a tank, is relatively easily serviceable and has been around for many years.

However, things I don't love are:

-It doesn't grind for filter. Or rather it doesn't really grind for filter and espresso interchangeably without faff. I know it isn't really meant to do that but I'm on borrowed time with my partner how long I can keep my Baratza AND the MM.

-It's messy as hell. Even if by some stroke of magic I can land most of the grounds in the basket, the slightest tap, knock or raised voice causes the doser to dump a load of coffee onto the tray/work surface.

-It can be tricky to dial in accurately since the adjuster is heavy. Again, great in a commercial environment so it doesn't get knocked out of place I suppose.

The appeal of the X54 is mainly the timer and the ability to jump between filter and espresso.

However, I'm wondering if I'd be sacrificing quality of grind with the X54 vs the Mazzer, and I'm wondering if there are any other benefits of keeping the Mazzer before I put it up for sale.


----------



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

I've decided to just go for it and find out the hard way if it's right/wrong, life's too short to not repeatedly make impulsive decisions about coffee grinders.

The Mini is up for sale in the classifieds if anyone's looking for a barely used MM!


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Why the x54? Unless I'm missing something I don't see the appeal.

For that money why not go the niche direction? Or one of the new flat burr single dosers.

Are you wanting to dose from a hopper specifically?


----------



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

newdent said:


> Why the x54? Unless I'm missing something I don't see the appeal.
> 
> For that money why not go the niche direction? Or one of the new flat burr single dosers.
> 
> Are you wanting to dose from a hopper specifically?


 Yeah, controversially I tend to find a blend that works as an espresso and filter (currently Origin's Stronghold or Resolute for example) and run through 250g in about 5 days. I'll do two filter in the morning, two flat whites in the afternoon and then perhaps an espresso after dinner. For that reason the hopper setup works and the X54 will hopefully be able to grind both fairly seamlessly. Although I appreciate there will inevitably be some purging required.

The other big appeal is the timer programs. I'm not 100% sure this is how the X54 works but if I'm reading it right, I can preset it to timed grind say 32g of filter or 17g of espresso.

The former is just convenience but I only have a single boiler machine so if I'm making more than one milk drink, any time saved having to grind/weigh/grind/weigh like I do with the Mazzer doser is going to be valuable.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

creationtwentytwo said:


> Yeah, controversially I tend to find a blend that works as an espresso and filter (currently Origin's Stronghold or Resolute for example) and run through 250g in about 5 days. I'll do two filter in the morning, two flat whites in the afternoon and then perhaps an espresso after dinner. For that reason the hopper setup works and the X54 will hopefully be able to grind both fairly seamlessly. Although I appreciate there will inevitably be some purging required.
> 
> The other big appeal is the timer programs. I'm not 100% sure this is how the X54 works but if I'm reading it right, I can preset it to timed grind say 32g of filter or 17g of espresso.
> 
> The former is just convenience but I only have a single boiler machine so if I'm making more than one milk drink, any time saved having to grind/weigh/grind/weigh like I do with the Mazzer doser is going to be valuable.


 Perhaps some people more experienced can chime in but I'd personally be slightly dubious about the air tightness of grinder hoppers. I'd be worried about how fresh the beans would stay. In a commercial environment they are getting through beans very quickly, so less of an issue.

Anyway, I'd be thinking about something like the Eureka mignon XL if a hopper is essential. No idea if you can have multiple timed presents but you can definitely time and you're getting 65mm burrs vs 54mm burrs. I don't think either will be easy to swap back and forth between espresso and filter as it looks like it'd be a pain to keep track of number of rotations on the dial for both, hence recommending the niche or maybe df64 (solo) for flat burrs.

You get 54mm burrs in a Eureka Mignon specialita and you'd save a fair bit of money on the x54.


----------



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

I've actually not looked into the Eureka grinders so that could well be an option.

I actually ran a little experiment with the hoppers because I wondered the same thing and I noticed when I got my Mazzer that the hopper is nowhere near airtight. The lid just sits on top and there's slots for things like the gate at the bottom and locking screw. Not that I suppose it's meant to be airtight.

With two bags of the same roast I left them in the hopper one week and then kept them in an Airscape canister the next whilst attempting to single dose. I didn't notice any difference in taste although that could totally be down to my palate and the enormous retention of the Mazzer doser. I'm getting some stale coffee either way!

I'll check out the Eureka options thanks.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

The doser can be easily modified to not retain too much (cardboard under sweeper veins) and the exit of the doser can be modded to be smaller and more accurate. Some grease on the threads of the adjustment collar may help with adjusting, people also add extra screws in the collar to assist turning. I don't blame you for wanting to get rid of you're switching between brew methods though, it's most designed to be left on a setting, perhaps tweaked slightly.

This is why many switch to single dosing. No need for timed doses as you get out what you put in. The niche for example is a dream to switch between grind settings. I've used mazzers and Eureka/x54 style adjusters and I wouldn't again.

I'd seriously have a think on the x54, much of the features seem gimmicky, the burrs aren't particularly big, I think you'd make a huge loss on it if you sold it. If money is no object then maybe it's worth a go! The real Prometheus on YouTube has done a review, he's usually honest and I didn't get vibes he was particularly impressed.


----------



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Yeah the Mazzer wasn't the smartest purchase for the exact reasons you've mentioned. I've had some very good coffee from it but yeah, not really intended for the home.

I think you might be right about the resale on the x54. It's a concern for sure. I can see it going either way, it sells out and receives global acclaim or it flops and they're worth next to nothing. I suppose my slight optimism is that it's still a Mahlkönig and hopefully will be solid and reliable. Although the burrs are smaller, if they're manufactured like the commercial MK burrs they're probably pretty good.

Money is certainly not no object so it needs to be a semi-sensible purchase.

You've got me interested in single dosing now!

It's off-topic but what's the workflow for making sequential shots with single dosing? Weigh out each dose worth of beans prior to grinding the first and then just drop them through one dose at a time? As above, it's the workflow for multiple coffees that's put me off single dosing a bit.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

I don't doubt the x54 will be a good grinder, it's just a lot of money for what it is.

You could pre-weigh for single dosing. I used to weigh and begin grinding for the second shot whilst the first shot was pouring. I now use a manual machine so I grind the first shot, empty into the basket, then weigh the second shot and have it grinding whilst I prepare the first shot.

It's slightly less convenient than a timed dose with a hopper but then there's less waste. The extra step is the weighing part, I guess you have to decide if you're that kinda guy who wants to weigh doses, many people don't!

Single dosing is the best option if you're regularly switching between brew methods or beans though. Even better is a second grinder but not an option for everyone.


----------



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Thanks, that makes sense.

Yeah I had a trusty Encore that did a great job of filter for many years but sadly there's just not enough counter space to have two grinders and the machine.

I actually thought the Niche was a lot more expensive than it is for some reason, so it's definitely an option!


----------



## pphaneuf (Apr 20, 2021)

creationtwentytwo said:


> I actually thought the Niche was a lot more expensive than it is for some reason, so it's definitely an option!


 The availability is the big problem if you want a Niche, but it seems to be getting somewhat better? They send out an email when they release a batch of them, they used to disappear in minutes, now it takes a day or two... Still have to wait for the next batch to be released, though.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

pphaneuf said:


> The availability is the big problem if you want a Niche, but it seems to be getting somewhat better? They send out an email when they release a batch of them, they used to disappear in minutes, now it takes a day or two... Still have to wait for the next batch to be released, though.


 I used my mazzer mini for 2 months until the niche arrived. I am not fond is this arrangement with niche but I do think it was worth waiting for.

I took the doser off the mini and fashioned a funnel for it whilst waiting. It wasn't pretty but it's worth bypassing the doser, the doser really is designed to be full to the top in a commercial setting. It's awful at single dosing.


----------



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Oops&#8230;


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Haha, nice. How have you found it? Does it work well for switching be methods as you'd hoped?


----------



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

newdent said:


> Haha, nice. How have you found it? Does it work well for switching be methods as you'd hoped?


 Honestly I'm hugely impressed. I tried to be objective as it's a really solid, good looking grinder and I didn't want to get biased by the shiny factor.

I've only done filter, to espresso and back and it works great. The dial is surprisingly light and whilst I had to dial the espresso a bit obviously I can't see why it won't be straightforward to jump back and forth.

Its quieter than the Mazzer but slower, and It's a LOT less messy too.

The timer works great too, the presets were a bit off but 24 seconds grinds 17g consistently at the espresso setting.

It's early days obviously but really pleased so far.


----------



## Roko (Apr 23, 2021)

@creationtwentytwo nice! I am looking at this grinder with interest. I am of the opinion that by removing the flapper, somehow adding some 3d printed SD mod, and (if one prefers light roasts) swapping the burrs for some ditting steels, one can get a pretty good grinder for the price.

It would not cost much more than the Solo, and in theory it is not meant for SD but - perhaps naively - I like the idea of owning a MK much more. And to my own eyes, the X54 looks far better. Burr alignment, whether it matters or not, in theory should be better on the MK.

Both grinders need to be modded to perform at their best, so I don't see the X54 as being more of a pain to mod for SD.


----------



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

So far I'd highly recommend it and I will post if that changes.

I'm not typically single dosing but what I would say is that whilst some of the very early reviews seem to report as much as 7g retention, I'd be interested to see if that drops off at all after a couple of weeks use. It might not of course, but I might do some tests once I've had some more beans delivered.

I also just really like the dimensions. It's big and solid enough to look like a serious grinder, but without looking commercial. It also has a really nice 'engineered' feel to it. Everything clicks solidly and turns smoothly.


----------



## Roko (Apr 23, 2021)

creationtwentytwo said:


> So far I'd highly recommend it and I will post if that changes.
> 
> I'm not typically single dosing but what I would say is that whilst some of the very early reviews seem to report as much as 7g retention, I'd be interested to see if that drops off at all after a couple of weeks use. It might not of course, but I might do some tests once I've had some more beans delivered.
> 
> I also just really like the dimensions. It's big and solid enough to look like a serious grinder, but without looking commercial. It also has a really nice 'engineered' feel to it. Everything clicks solidly and turns smoothly.


 I have spoken with an user who removed (or swapped - can't remember) the declumper and their retention (right after cleaning) dropped dramatically.


----------



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Good news and less good news today.

The good news is I really like the x54. I've gone back and forth between filter and espresso a few times now and it's consistently great in the cup. It's also enjoyable to use which I have to say wasn't really the case with the Mazzer, despite the resultant cups being good. Still producing very consistent doses using the timer.

The bad news (for me!) is I made a HUGE loss on the Mini. A four month old, warrantied model and it went for £170! And there's me thinking the resale on Mazzer is pretty good. I guess I should've bought used. Or bought the more desirable electronic model.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

creationtwentytwo said:


> Good news and less good news today.
> 
> The good news is I really like the x54. I've gone back and forth between filter and espresso a few times now and it's consistently great in the cup. It's also enjoyable to use which I have to say wasn't really the case with the Mazzer, despite the resultant cups being good. Still producing very consistent doses using the timer.
> 
> The bad news (for me!) is I made a HUGE loss on the Mini. A four month old, warrantied model and it went for £170! And there's me thinking the resale on Mazzer is pretty good. I guess I should've bought used. Or bought the more desirable electronic model.


 Where did you sell it? Didn't you have it advertised for 300? People generally expect to pay less on this forum but you'll get more for things on eBay or Facebook marketplace. I paid £180 for a used, 2007 mini and sold it for the same price 2 months later. Unless you're desperate and in a hurry, £170 seems low to me.


----------



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

newdent said:


> Where did you sell it? Didn't you have it advertised for 300? People generally expect to pay less on this forum but you'll get more for things on eBay or Facebook marketplace. I paid £180 for a used, 2007 mini and sold it for the same price 2 months later. Unless you're desperate and in a hurry, £170 seems low to me.


 eBay, I should've put a reserve really but I haven't had great results with that. It's unusual because when I listed it there was an older one (same doser model) at £233.

I was expecting to take quite a hit since I'd paid the premium of buying new but £250 or so would've been good.

I'm not going to dwell on it, I still came out of it with a grinder I really like!


----------



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Updating this with a bit of a review after a couple of weeks use.

Firstly, I'm really happy with the x54. It's clearly not for everyone, but for my needs, it's been a joy to use and I've had great results.

Whilst irrelevant to the function it's also just a really nice looking machine and despite not being quite as weighty as some of the commercial grinders, it's solid and feels well put together.

It's probably worth noting that we kind of moved away from lighter, fruity coffees in recent years and tend to default to darker Brazilian styles with chocolate notes. The last couple of weeks have been Origin's Stronghold and New Ground's Mug Shot. Controversially I'm using the same bean for espresso, flat white and filter (Moccamaster). If you're single-dosing and carefully measuring/timing every shot and taking time over multiple coffees at once it's almost certainly not the right grinder.

My daily pattern, which hugely inspired the purchase of the x54 tends to be 2 filter in the morning, 2 flat white in the afternoon and then 1 espresso in the evening. I fill the hopper with about 200g beans and just refill when the hopper is empty. Given that we're using almost 80g+ purging a day that doesn't take very long. Remaining beans are kept in an Airscape canister.

Pros:

- Most importantly, in the cup results are really enjoyable.

- Timed grinding is amazing and seems to be plenty consistent enough to get decent extractions repeatedly.

- Switching between coarseness settings via the dial on the side is a breeze.

- Easily the quietest grinder I've heard.

- Adjustable PF holder is a nice touch for hands-free grinding (although see caveat below).

- Presets are handy for different brew methods (I set one to be 1 dose of filter, and the next 1 dose espresso).

Cons:

- Not the fastest grinder. 17.5g of espresso on setting 2 takes around 18 seconds.

- Pretty significant wastage due to large purges required when moving from filter to espresso (due to having to run the grinder to adjust and then purging about 10g).

- Grind chute doesn't seem to be angled right if using the PF activated switch. If I use that switch and leave the PF in the holder, most of the grinds miss the basket towards the end of the dose. This might be dependent on which manufacturers PF you're using (mine is Rancilio). I tend to just hold the PF to more evenly distribute grinds anyway.

Overall, I can't see a grinder that suits my requirements better. If I was single-dosing then it totally wouldn't be the best option. But for making coffee for multiple people, multiple times a day and in two brew methods, the efficiency and simplicity is arguably worth the compromise for me.

I'd highly recommend it if you're looking for a 'does it all' grinder and aren't single dosing.


----------



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Updating this again since my latest findings&#8230;

Having switched to a slightly lighter roast at the weekend (still dark), I'm unable to grind fine enough to extract a 1:2 espresso in more than 20 seconds. This is a concern because even if I could tweak the dial to work with this coffee, there's no way I'll have headroom to go lighter and get a decent extraction

I've actually requested a return, mainly because my 30 day return window is up.

It's a shame because it works great for filter and the timed grinding is great for dosing out however many cups worth.


----------



## Dadcyclist (Jan 2, 2022)

1984FXSB said:


> Updating this again since my latest findings&#8230;
> 
> Having switched to a slightly lighter roast at the weekend (still dark), I'm unable to grind fine enough to extract a 1:2 espresso in more than 20 seconds. This is a concern because even if I could tweak the dial to work with this coffee, there's no way I'll have headroom to go lighter and get a decent extraction
> 
> ...


 What Grinder are you moving to?


----------



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Dadcyclist said:


> What Grinder are you moving to?


 I ended up keeping the x54 and four months on I'm really pleased. Part of that success is giving up on the idea of ever having a 'one grinder for every brew method' and just accepting it as an espresso grinder (or a brew grinder) which it does a great job as.

Granted there are better options for less money, and it's not a single doser, but I get fantastic results in the cup and the timer is useful. In my opinion it's also the best looking grinder too (other than an E65S/EK43), but that's subjective I suppose and I just like the look of MK grinders.

The clumping isn't really an issue now either and I'm getting consistently good grinds with plenty of headroom on fine-ness after properly adjusting the burrs.

I'm strongly considering a second one just for brew&#8230;


----------



## Hamsando (Jan 13, 2022)

Thanks for the ongoing dialogue on this - about to hit purchase on an x54.

I currently have an ECM Best (pre Anfim), which is still going strong - i chose it over the Mazzer years ago and don't regret it.


----------

