# Sandbox Smart



## Adam I

anyone come across these before? I'm interested, but any feedback would be great. Nothing coming up on the search.

https://www.sandboxsmart.com/en.html


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## Batian

If that is US $ it's ************* expensive!

https://shopee.tw/Sandbox-Smart-R1-智能烘豆機-220V-i.261887568.4735644761


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## DavecUK

It's Taiwanese Dollars


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## Adam I

yeah, that price works out at about £500 - I must admit i'm interested, i might be the first one on here by the looks of it!


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## DavecUK

Adam I said:


> yeah, that price works out at about £500 - I must admit i'm interested, i might be the first one on here by the looks of it!


 Possibly not....


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## Adam I

have you gone for one too?? 😄


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## DavecUK

Adam I said:


> have you gone for one too?? 😄


 Why have you ordered one?


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## Adam I

yep! although it'll take a while to arrive


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## DavecUK

Adam I said:


> yep! although it'll take a while to arrive


 Hope it works out OK and you don't end up taking one for the team...looks like it has promise...but you never know till you try. I did like the Quest M3 but they wouldn't go for CE

*When I test em, it doesn't cost me anything*...... I have had quite a few failed roasters here over the years, some have gone to the tip. One was particularly extra dangerous, even the black paint melted off and caught fire!

I still have a sort of Alpenroast clone...I keep meaning to try it again for a laugh...just have not felt brave enough.

Tried one of these many, many years ago now...it was called the NitRoaster then <lol>. It's still on sale on ebay (under a number of different names)for the unwary...A definite avoid.


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## DavecUK

The video is great, soft music, pretty Korean girl, fake smoke from the beans, huge oven gloves.....However cheesy though, the infrared heating concept looks interesting..and the drum is nice and large.


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## Adam I

Lol. Yeah I agree the video isn't the best! Fingers crossed it'll be fine when it arrives!!


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## DavecUK

My Sandbox Smart arrived on Saturday and I've done some roasts, made some profiles, especially as I am finding 150g is a good sweet spot for maximum batch size....so that needed some adjustments to the stock profiles. Already trying the coffee as if there are any roasting defects (anything wrong with my profiles) they are apparent quite quickly, no need to rest. No problems so far...very impressed with it, I'm using Android but should be getting my hands on an Ithingy to try the apple version of the app.

The cooler is great and I personally think worth getting unless you can knock one up yourself. It really helps to de chaff the coffee...one a Daterra I tried is a very difficult coffee to roast and super Chaffy. It roasted well and with good bean expansion....tricky with that coffee.

I keep my fingers crossed that things continue as they have started and we will soon have an alternative available other than the venerable Gene Cafe..


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## Inspector

Did you manage to find 220V variant? Or purchased 110V and using it with converter?


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## DavecUK

Inspector said:


> Did you manage to find 220V variant? Or purchased 110V and using it with converter?


 220V


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## Rob1

Maybe it'll be a good little sample roaster for a reasonable price.


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## DavecUK

Rob1 said:


> Maybe it'll be a good little sample roaster for a reasonable price.


 It's certainly closer to and more relevant to a drum profile than a fluid bed air roaster


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## Jony

Who what 🤣🤣keep watching this thread.


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## Rob1

I found a video by Chinese DaveC. It's very thorough and long and he has cats.


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## Rob1

Bella Barista will be the UK distributor for this roaster, which is annoying because I just tried to order one from Taiwan.

Who knows how long CE certification will take and what the markup will be. I will have to wait and see, and probably further mod my gene cafe in the meantime.


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## Lovic

Good news 😊


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## Rob1

Lovic said:


> Good news 😊


 Well, not really. I would be able to order from Taiwan right now if it weren't for BB being the sole UK distributor. As it is I have to wait until they get certification and then pay an additional fee to the middle man. If the roaster improves it will be worth it. If the additional fee is only small (similar to the 1zpresso grinders) it will be worth it for parts.

You're in France so you can probably order direct now or wait for BB, so good news for you I guess....


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## Stanic

It's a tiny unit! Hmm, tempting 😁


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## Rob1

@Adam I

@DavecUK

Any further news, progress, experience to share?


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## DavecUK

Still finishing the review, you just reminded me, I have to go and roast some more coffee in it today.


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## Beowulf

Really looking forward to the review! I've watched all the videos I've found and I'm seriously considering it.


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## mctrials23

Come on @DavecUK, you're retired! 😆


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## DavecUK

mctrials23 said:


> Come on @DavecUK, you're retired! 😆


 It takes a long time to test a roaster and also put the videos together, you will see why when you see the Videos. They have to have the smartphone screen captured separately, then synced up with the main video taken with my camera. I've not used the camera for videos for a year now....usually I use the smartphone. Obviously I can't because the phone is controlling/linked to the roaster.

There's the tasting to do as well, for example I roasted the coffee I'm drinking at the moment last Saturday and it's been steadily improving over the 6 days, I'd like to have left it longer...I need to do another roast with a small adjustment to a profile I made as well, just to check it's all doing what it should. I like it but I have to be sure it's all explained absolutely clearly for people, with videos that show how the experience is. Including the internals and the area that needs maintenance. I've shot the video for the internals, but not edited it yet.

I've also been suggesting improvements to the software and supplied items as well as spares holdings for the Retailer.

If I was just doing a sales vid it would be easy, soft music, quick cuts, roasted beans spilling out of my hands into a cup, beautiful extractions and an attractive girl/guy stating it's the best espresso she they have ever tasted. It might take me a day....but I don't do that.


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## mctrials23

I know, I know. Curse your desire to do actually useful reviews!

The nature of coffee makes testing a roaster a much longer process than most products.

I wait with baited breath.


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## DavecUK

I actually did 5 roasts today with 2 different coffees.....Got to put the roast screen vids into a video and comment on it now. Well once I finished up the internals review video and write up, together with the maintenance tips.


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## Lovic

Sounds good... Smells good ?


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## Rob1

DavecUK said:


> I actually did 5 roasts today with 2 different coffees.....Got to put the roast screen vids into a video and comment on it now. Well once I finished up the internals review video and write up, together with the maintenance tips.


 I downloaded the app out of curiosity and things seem backwards.

Lower heater and higher fan setting early in the roast, higher heat and lower fan settings late in the roast?


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## DavecUK

Rob1 said:


> I downloaded the app out of curiosity and things seem backwards.
> 
> Lower heater and higher fan setting early in the roast, higher heat and lower fan settings late in the roast?


 Well I modded the profiles to my own anyway.....you can change all that and add up to 14 or 16 point where parameters are input on the roast curve prior to first crack


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## Lovic

Can't breath anymore 😅


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## DavecUK

Some photos of last Saturdays Roasts but taken today. Hard to get the colour and exposure right, especially with shadows. They were 150g batches (what I consider to be the maximum). Both tasting excellent.

A nice Burundi Mpanga - Medium roast









Ethiopian Limu, nice light chaff creases.


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## Jony

Looks pretty good Dave. Shame of lockdown, came back up North trains only 2 hrs😁


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## DavecUK

Yup it's a pain.


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## Drasunia

When do you expect to post full review ? I am really considering to buy this machine


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## DavecUK

I should be finished during the next few days.


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## Lovic

Last quote from them about the R1 + C1 + shipping fee = 757,6 euros

At this price, there is no custom duties thus final price will be near from 950-1k euros... Well, I personally (as everybody I guess 😅) waiting the final report from DavecUK however in this price range (1k) others competitors like Kaffee logic nano 7 or even the Quest M3 could also be worth it ?

Who knows... Well...


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## MediumRoastSteam

€1k is not an attractive price for me at least. I'm sure it's a great machine, but, at this price, I think I'll leave the job to the pros.


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## mctrials23

MediumRoastSteam said:


> €1k is not an attractive price for me at least. I'm sure it's a great machine, but, at this price, I think I'll leave the job to the pros.


 Same here. At ~£600 I might have been interested but at that price thats a little too much.


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## Rob1

Lovic said:


> Last quote from them about the R1 + C1 + shipping fee = 757,6 euros
> 
> At this price, there is no custom duties thus final price will be near from 950-1k euros... Well, I personally (as everybody I guess 😅) waiting the final report from DavecUK however in this price range (1k) others competitors like Kaffee logic nano 7 or even the Quest M3 could also be worth it ?
> 
> Who knows... Well...


 The Kaffeelogic is a fluid bed roaster, so not really comparable. You can make something similar yourself with artisan support easily enough, I'm sure there are plenty of instructions online for making that type of roaster suitable for various batch sizes.

With a few mods you could integrate artisan into the gene cafe. Of course if you're not up for that you're not going to be up for building your own roaster and are going to have to pay a premium for somebody else to do it for you but at least you'll get a nicer form factor (probably). I like this one: https://homeroasters.org/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=5742&rowstart=0

The price does seem steep compared to the NTD price that works out less than £600. Anything above £500-600 for the home user is pushing it imo. You'd have to be a real enthusiast to spend more than that (i.e already into home roasting). It illustrates why the home roaster market hasn't taken off. Machines are priced so high as to make it prohibitive for the vast majority to try it; they'd rather spend money on coffee roasted professionally than do it themselves if it costs almost 1k to even get into it.


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## Lovic

@Rob1, Yes exactly, price range above 500-600£ is a different limonade, definitely, however is it worth it for a coffee lover which want to improve his skills ? Is this roaster able to perform as well as a professional sample roaster especially if we want to perform light and medium roast ?
This a small sum-up about the questions I have even if my Gene Café works perfectly, unfortunately the lack of control remains frustrating.


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## DavecUK

Have I missed something, is there a current RRP for the UK CE approved version of the roaster from Bella Barista?


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## Rob1

DavecUK said:


> Have I missed something, is there a current RRP for the UK CE approved version of the roaster from Bella Barista?


 No this is discussion of the price direct from manufacturer including delivery and taxes to France.


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## DavecUK

Ah...I was getting worried for a minute....if there is time the French guy might be able to buy from BB before we leave EU. Even if it's after I expect there will be some exemption period for 3-6 months.


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## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> Ah...I was getting worried for a minute....if there is time the French guy might be able to buy from BB before we leave EU. Even if it's after I expect there will be some exemption period for 3-6 months.


 We have left the EU 1st Jan 2020. This is now the race to get a trade deal with the EU, where everything stays the same until 1st Jan 2021. After that is back to WTO rules if we don't have a deal. So technically... We've left the building 🙂 - So technically, as far as I understand - maybe I don't? - This *is* the exemption period.


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## Rob1

DavecUK said:


> Ah...I was getting worried for a minute....if there is time the French guy might be able to buy from BB before we leave EU. Even if it's after I expect there will be some exemption period for 3-6 months.


 Does this mean you expect BB to have stock in December?


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## DavecUK

Rob1 said:


> Does this mean you expect BB to have stock in December?


 Me, I said nuthin....😉


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## DavecUK

I have completed my review of the roaster if anyone is interested.

This is a direct link to the MS Sway document itself https://sway.office.com/tfqj3vUqjfiA30Eu


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## mctrials23

Cheers Dave, been looking forward to this for a while!

p.s. Whoever chose to use that sway.office for the review should be shot! I hope that wasn't you Dave! If there is one thing that should never be fucked with on the web, its scrolling....


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## DavecUK

mctrials23 said:


> Cheers Dave, been looking forward to this for a while!
> 
> p.s. Whoever chose to use that sway.office for the review should be shot! I hope that wasn't you Dave! If there is one thing that should never be fucked with on the web, its scrolling....


 It was me and I don't see the problem with sway, you can set up the view as you want, or even create a .pdf with links if that's what you want. Sway is free and no adverts. I find it works well with mobiles and PCs. Everything else that's free (for me) like my review site, has a whole load of shitty horrible adverts on it.



My Youtube is not monetised, so unless I make an error...no adverts to hassle viewers


MS Sway is a courtesy of MS and although the free version has limitations they don't affect me much and again no adverts.


It's also very easy to write stuff in sway....it's why from the lelit Elizabeth review, I started using MS Sway. It allows me to do owners manuals, hints and tips guides, as well as dynamically and rapidly edit out problems, mistakes or make updates as required. Wordpress was a PITA, also BB wanted their reviews pulled from wordpress and on their site because of ads, another major PITA for me, especially if I updated anything.

Lastly in MS Sway I and no one else has control of my reviews, so nothing can be changed unless I change it!


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## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> Lastly in MS Sway I and no one else has control of my reviews, so nothing can be changed unless I change it!


 Well.... Strictly speaking, MS has control of that. If they disappear... You had it  (I don't think this will happen, ever, but just for completeness).



mctrials23 said:


> Whoever chose to use that sway.office


 I'm not a fan of Sway either. It feels clunky, bloated... To me at least. it's Microsoft, what else would we expect?

But also it's free, and has no adverts, and its contents can be easily viewed on multiple devices and be printed.

Dave could have written his review in "plain/text" with links. Would be equally worth for me. I really value the content. The format... Meh. Whatever. 🙂


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## DavecUK

I have taken word backups, so I can always recreate if need be...but as you say, it's about content.

If people want glossy, whizzy whatever, they can go and look at the commercial stuff. If they really want to find out, then they have to make the effort to use Sway.

I had wondered whether to go purely video for the reviews....but it's a very limiting medium to get facts across in and for people to easily reference stuff. So I use video mainly for provers.

P.S. I am a Microsoft fanboy....I remember the bad old days before Microsoft. Bill Gates changed the face of computing, in fact was responsible for the biggest changes in our world. Should have given him a Nobel prize. I do admit he stole a lot of stuff from Vax VMS of course, mainly the core of the windows operating system.


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## 7493

My first experience with Sway. I couldn't see anything wrong with it. Just scrolled my way through. Great review! One of these days I might cough up the funds to get into roasting. if I do this would be top of the list.


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## Lovic

Here is finally the review awaited... and you're talking about Sway 😅

Let's see this review now 😊


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## MediumRoastSteam

I started watching whist at work today on the side but, as expected, a high degree of concentration is required. Something for the weekend. One cannot easily multitask. 😂😊

looking forward to watching and reading it!


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## Lovic

Thank you @DavecUK for this complete review, I want to say, it worth it !
I just have further questions:
- Did you notice or measured a behavior change depending the voltage at the socket ?
- It appears some BT deconnexion message during the videos, is it a bug or real instant connexion loss ?
- Is it realistic to lead the roast in "manual mode" with the app or you suggest to keep automatic profil ?
- Is the airflow applied is it relevant ? I mean, you incremented by 5%, is it sufficient to have a noticeable difference ?


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## DavecUK

Lovic said:


> Thank you @DavecUK for this complete review, I want to say, it worth it !
> I just have further questions:
> 1. - Did you notice or measured a behavior change depending the voltage at the socket ?
> 2. - It appears some BT deconnexion message during the videos, is it a bug or real instant connexion loss ?
> 3 - Is it realistic to lead the roast in "manual mode" with the app or you suggest to keep automatic profil ?
> 4. - Is the airflow applied is it relevant ? I mean, you incremented by 5%, is it sufficient to have a noticeable difference ?


 1. I assume there will be a behaviour change, as I don't believe the roaster increases input power as voltage changes, but it's quite small. The roaster isn't particularly demanding only using around 600W. It wasn't noticeable as a problem during testing. What was quite noticeable was wind across the roaster robbing heat if roasting outside....so I would choose a sheltered area, or a day with little wind.

2. That message comes up when making profiles *without the roaster being switched on and nearby.* I wish it was something I could switch off, rather than just keep cancelling. When you start the software on the phone, it continually checks for the roaster every so often. I don't remember ever losing the connection when actually roasting.

3. Personally, I don't think so, so much so, I didn't bother testing it....your mileage may vary. Those sliders might be quite awkward to use.

4. Yes, even 5% it makes a small but noticeable difference.

I also have a profile that's more aggressive at the beginning with heat and this does speed up the time to 1st crack slightly when using 150g, which I personally consider the maximum for decent roasts.


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## Lovic

Great, waiting the pre order from BB now...


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## Rob1

Personally, I think we should all just go with this nice, cheap home roaster. https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/dalian-amazon-300g-smart-roaster.html


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## mctrials23

Rob1 said:


> Personally, I think we should all just go with this nice, cheap home roaster. https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/dalian-amazon-300g-smart-roaster.html


 Dave must have his mitts on this already no?


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## DavecUK

mctrials23 said:


> Dave must have his mitts on this already no?


 no


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## earthflattener

Rob1 said:


> Personally, I think we should all just go with this nice, cheap home roaster. https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/dalian-amazon-300g-smart-roaster.html


 Buying that without negotiations that would make Brexit pale in comparison, I would likely end up in a place where Old Nick supervises the dark roasts personally.


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## DavecUK

I'm just waiting to see the BB preorder page go up...unless I missed it?


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## Beeroclock

Firstly Dave - thanks for the review.

I must confess that are a few points I don't quite get though.

1. There is no bean probe so the curves are very odd. According to the curves you've posted, the finish temp is lower than your first crack temp. This just can't be the case unless you've had a massive stall, which I doubt.

Does this mean that the end temp is just and Environmental Reading?

2. 13 plus mins for roasting a 150g batch - especially a washed Ethiopian seems like a very long roast time.

Looking at the curve data you have a quick turnaround at around 1 min and reach dry end by between 3-4 mins, but then don't hit FC till near 11mins or more - this seems like an extremely long Maillard phase? 
Is this a characteristic of this type of roaster or an issue with the batch size?

Or does the curve not bear any relationship to what the bean is actually doing?

3. What happens if the Bluetooth connection drops during the roast? Is there an option to manually finish the roast.

Thanks Philip


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## DavecUK

Beeroclock said:


> Firstly Dave - thanks for the review.
> 
> I must confess that are a few points I don't quite get though.
> 
> 1. There is no bean probe so the curves are very odd. According to the curves you've posted, the finish temp is lower than your first crack temp. This just can't be the case unless you've had a massive stall, which I doubt.
> 
> Does this mean that the end temp is just and Environmental Reading?
> 
> 2. 13 plus mins for roasting a 150g batch - especially a washed Ethiopian seems like a very long roast time.
> 
> Looking at the curve data you have a quick turnaround at around 1 min and reach dry end by between 3-4 mins, but then don't hit FC till near 11mins or more - this seems like an extremely long Maillard phase?
> Is this a characteristic of this type of roaster or an issue with the batch size?
> 
> Or does the curve not bear any relationship to what the bean is actually doing?
> 
> 3. What happens if the Bluetooth connection drops during the roast? Is there an option to manually finish the roast.
> 
> Thanks Philip


 1. Covered in written review and in videos about probe placement and what I believe it reads, the probe is not in the beans. No there is no stall...jut reflects the fact that the environmental temp goes down 2-3c because the heating elements are reduced to 50% or less. You can hear 1st continuing quite well.. It is infrared heating predominantly, so a reduced environmental temp doesn't mean the bean temp has gone down.

2. 150g is the max, I think you have to look at the curves and decide the answers to the questions for yourself. 1st roast and wind across the roaster is definitely something that gives a much longer 1st crack time when using 150g. I tend to roast, rest the coffee and try it at various days after roast....that's all I can do. It's hard to judge something by charts alone. I put them up so it was clear what the roaster tells you....seems to be useful and consistent in terms of repeatable results and making changes to the profile?

3. *Don't know, never happened*...but as far as I am aware, I don't believe there is a manual option, I think the roast would just stop. You would not have any way to indicate to the roaster the profile, or the beginning of 1st crack. Sandbox say the following below, but if I am honest with no way to indicate 1st, then you're not going to get any sensible roast profile out of it...It will just follow the last programmed profile until it ends but without the 1st crack power reduction and count down until EOR. As my profiles had no data points after 14 minutes, one assumes it will stop at that point. I didn't really test it because as you can see below, there is nothing useful to test

*

*



> *
> Q : Do I need an APP to start Sandbox Smart R1 Roaster?
> *
> 
> A : You can turn on the system by long press the power button. System will automatically be heat up with your previous profile. Since it will only have one default profile, we suggest you to download Sandbox Smart APP for full authority to operate Sandbox Smart R1 Roaster.
> 
> *
> Q : What happened if I did not push the 1st crack button while roasting?
> *
> 
> A : If you forget to push 1st crack button while roasting, you can still push "stop roasting" button and remove your beans. If no buttons were pushed, the system will stop automatically in 20 mins.
> 
> *
> Q : What will happen if my Bluetooth disconnected during the roasting?
> *
> 
> A : This situation is same as above. The system will automatically stop at 20 mins, or you can long push the power button on front panel to stop roasting manually.


 Overall, if you want to roast 150g you can and get nice tasting results, if you want more control, faster first crack etc.. simply reduce the batch size and if necessary go down to it's rated batch size of 100g.


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## MediumRoastSteam

So... I'm starting to watch the videos and read the review. But I keep thinking... What if the manufacturer decides to discontinue or no longer supports the mobile app? Or update the app and you don't have the latest phone?

As much as I quite enjoy being able to control a devices using a mobile phone, I don't think it should be the primary way, but an alternative way. At least a very basic way to input a profile and feedback from the probes should be part of the roaster itself, via a simple control/display (Lelit Control Centre - LCC like hardware springs to mind).

Will I end up with a door stopper if the app or the company goes bust or changes tactic? That worries me quite a bit.


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## Rob1

MediumRoastSteam said:


> So... I'm starting to watch the videos and read the review. But I keep thinking... What if the manufacturer decides to discontinue or no longer supports the mobile app? Or update the app and you don't have the latest phone?
> 
> As much as I quite enjoy being able to control a devices using a mobile phone, I don't think it should be the primary way, but an alternative way. At least a very basic way to input a profile and feedback from the probes should be part of the roaster itself, via a simple control/display (Lelit Control Centre - LCC like hardware springs to mind).
> 
> Will I end up with a door stopper if the app or the company goes bust or changes tactic? That worries me quite a bit.


 Not really a risk. Decent have basically locked the bulk of their controls behind an android tablet that ships with the machine. Logically this no different to buying a cheap tablet and installing the sandbox app on it (if you're worried about updates breaking the app.....just don't update it).The company should definitely make the app open source so anyone can write a program to interact with the roaster using ehatever device they want. If pairing with the roaster is locked behind encryption there's really no need for that.

Anyway you can theoretically download and backup the app and run it on whatever version of android it requires using an old phone or raspberry pi/arduino/tablet running android, or windows/linux/chromebook running android studio.

That's all in theory. The app could be locked to specific devices with bluetooth pairing unnecessarily encrypted....

I agree the roaster should have physical control and readout. Bluetooth is much more reliable than it used to be and drop outs are rare now but they can and do still occur.


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## DavecUK

Rob1 said:


> Bluetooth is much more reliable than it used to be and drop outs are rare now but they can and do still occur.


 I did actually drop the connection when I tried to take a video with the same phone I was controlling the roast with, but as soon as I went back to the app the connection resumed...the roast/roaster wasn't affected at all. A temporary loss of connection, I didn't find ended the roast..


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## Rincewind

Rob1 said:


> ...The company should definitely *make the app open source* so anyone can write a program to interact with the roaster using ehatever device they want...


 I agree 100% but i somehow doubt they will....IMO corporate greed will keep you tied/locked to *their* software; it's a £££win win win


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## MediumRoastSteam

Rob1 said:


> Not really a risk. Decent have basically locked the bulk of their controls behind an android tablet that ships with the machine. Logically this no different to buying a cheap tablet and installing the sandbox app on it (if you're worried about updates breaking the app.....just don't update it).The company should definitely make the app open source so anyone can write a program to interact with the roaster using ehatever device they want. If pairing with the roaster is locked behind encryption there's really no need for that.


 Well.... for the price... I'd expect at least a good backup plan. Looks like Decent Espresso is very open and have done their homework to an extent. With regards to Sandbox, we'll have to see.


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## Rob1

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Well.... for the price... I'd expect at least a good backup plan. Looks like Decent Espresso is very open and have done their homework to an extent. With regards to Sandbox, we'll have to see.


 Aside from the open source issues.....if it turns out there's some stupid subscription fee to properly use the roaster it will rapidly become a candidate for having its electronics ripped out and replaced with new ones. It's a simple device at the end of the day, a motor, a couple of fans, a thermocouple, and some tube heaters. They might be able to lock it all behind encryption and an app but they can't do anything if you decide you're going to make your own controller. Of course this would void the warranty, the question is so what. The bulk of the value is in the construction, any parts you might want to replace should be cheap.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Rob1 said:


> Aside from the open source issues.....if it turns out there's some stupid subscription fee to properly use the roaster it will rapidly become a candidate for having its electronics ripped out and replaced with new ones. It's a simple device at the end of the day, a motor, a couple of fans, a thermocouple, and some tube heaters. They might be able to lock it all behind encryption and an app but they can't do anything if you decide you're going to make your own controller. Of course this would void the warranty, the question is so what. The bulk of the value is in the construction, any parts you might want to replace should be cheap.


 Thing is... The appeal to me, at least, is the App and the software. The ability to store profiles, the ability to exchange profiles, reproduce it, tweak it... Surely a lot of effort went into it and of course, as we all know, creating/building software is not cheap.

Something for me to do at the weekend. I'll watch the videos and read with a fresh mind. I really like the look of the roaster, and, if it delivers a great roast, light, medium or dark... Even better.


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## Rob1

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Thing is... The appeal to me, at least, is the App and the software. The ability to store profiles, the ability to exchange profiles, reproduce it, tweak it... Surely a lot of effort went into it and of course, as we all know, creating/building software is not cheap.


 You can do all that on Artisan, which is free and open source, as is the stuff it's based on (eg matplotlib and python libraries). The app looks nice though. You're paying for the software with the roaster the subscription is more of an extra that presumably they try to justify with server costs.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Rob1 said:


> You can do all that on Artisan, which is free and open source,


 but it doesn't control the roaster 🙂 - that's my point. As much as I enjoy working and being a software engineer, at my spare time I just want to deal with things which work. I really don't want to reverse engineer things and/or deal with python libraries.


----------



## DavecUK

Rob1 said:


> Aside from the open source issues.....if it turns out there's some stupid subscription fee to properly use the roaster it will rapidly become a candidate for having its electronics ripped out and replaced with new ones. It's a simple device at the end of the day, a motor, a couple of fans, a thermocouple, and some tube heaters. They might be able to lock it all behind encryption and an app but they can't do anything if you decide you're going to make your own controller. Of course this would void the warranty, the question is so what. The bulk of the value is in the construction, any parts you might want to replace should be cheap.


 There is no subscription fee to properly use it. There is VIP access which at the time of writing gives you more history, more shares, more stored profiles but you don't need it and I don't believe you could even buy it if you wanted to at this time. The free trial of member sharing and re-roast (which I never saw the point of) is still working after 3 or so months.

I can share profiles, member or social sharing, download and load profiles, store 20 profiles, although if you add more they simply roll off the bottom...but are still there...when you delete the latest ones, they roll back up (if that makes sense).

I am not sure VIP will ever be a thing that people pay for because BB want to have it all included for nothing and are negotiating for this. However, *you will never have to pay for basic* *and that's everything you need to use the roaster.* Software, as I said in the review, is still being developed and the stuff for VIP being finalised. Personally I don't think VIP will be a thing.


----------



## Beeroclock

I think one needs to use the word "profile" very carefully here. The thermocouple is just giving an environmental reading.

This just isn't the same as getting an accurate bean temp reading. I've spent the last year really drilling into this and making sure that my probes are giving the best data possible. It's made a huge difference to the quality of my roasts. Without a bean probe you'll have no idea of how/when/if your beans are crashing/flicking after FC etc.

This is where the real magic happens - the difference between "meh" and "wow".

I've just spent £500 on a proper twin wall stainless steel flue with Swedish cowl because having installed first a Magnehelic and then a Phidgets 1136 differential pressure sensor - I could properly see house outside weather especially on windy days was affecting my roasts, something I see Dave noted when he roasted out doors.

So let's say you have a profile you want to share it with someone. You load the profile and your green beans are warmer or cooler, or your environment is different from the person who you shared profile with. The beans just won't follow the same path.
But without accurate readings you won't know.

Voltage differences may also play a big factor - I know it did when I owned the Quest M3.

I am really interested to see what BB sells these at because at the moment - I'm struggling to see a huge advantage over the latest Behmor which can be had for under £400. Can also be modded simply enough to add a TC and give environmental readings which you can input into Artisan.

Cheers Phil


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I started reading the review yesterday. Haven't watched the videos "in depth" yet, just flicked through them.

Question: will the UK version have a 240V heating element? I remember the Gene Cafe CBR 101 had specific versions of the nesting element, even if the rating variation was only 10V. For instance, there was a 230V Euro and a 240V UK.

Will the sandbox smart also have different heating elements to suit a the adequate electric voltage or will not be required? If so, why?


----------



## Rob1

Beeroclock said:


> I think one needs to use the word "profile" very carefully here. The thermocouple is just giving an environmental reading.
> 
> This just isn't the same as getting an accurate bean temp reading. I've spent the last year really drilling into this and making sure that my probes are giving the best data possible. It's made a huge difference to the quality of my roasts. Without a bean probe you'll have no idea of how/when/if your beans are crashing/flicking after FC etc.


 Due to the method of heating the placement of the probe the design of it (to read air temp blowing off the beans) should be very consistent as a marker. It won't reflect actual bean temp but should work as a reference point. However I do agree there might be concerns over how well this method of 'profiling' will measure small and rapid changes to bean mass temperature. Dave could perform a simple test: perform a full roast without changing heat and fan settings and see if there is a flick at first crack; deliberately decrease heater power or fan speed too much and see if there's a crash. If the roast curve doesn't show anything wrong the probe placement doesn't really work, if it does then the probe placement at least shows larger errors.



> So let's say you have a profile you want to share it with someone. You load the profile and your green beans are warmer or cooler, or your environment is different from the person who you shared profile with. The beans just won't follow the same path.
> But without accurate readings you won't know.
> 
> Voltage differences may also play a big factor - I know it did when I owned the Quest M3.


 It's a problem with any machine that allows you to share profiles aside from something like the Bullet that compensates for voltage fluctuations (or so I hear). You'd have to have the same beans stored in the same way too. At some point the user will have to accept they're better off learning how to adjust profiles themselves rather than rely on other people sharing profiles and at that point the point of spending extra money on software that allows sharing or roasters that come equipped with profiles at huge expense will feel a little silly.


----------



## Beeroclock

Agreed, however when you look a profile graph with bean temp readings, you can at least see where the phases have occurred and get a feel for the coffee.

Also agree re ET probe, it's incredibly useful to get an idea of where a roast is going, however in the case of the Sandbox, I'm not convinced that it's placed correctly.

My ET probe is placed in the drum at the top near the exhaust out of bean strike. It never gives a reading below FC temp.

To me knowing the end temp of one's bean is crucial to developing profiles. Roasting coffee is in essence cooking after all. Many chefs use probes to measure meat/fish or at the very least touch - but that of course isn't an option either - with no trier.

I'm just interested to see how much extra is going to be charged for the Bluetooth/profile capabilities of this roaster, because I see these as a bit of a red herring, honestly.

On a positive note however, I think the form factor and design is very nice.

Cheers Phil


----------



## steffanjtaylor

DavecUK said:


> I have completed my review of the roaster if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is a direct link to the MS Sway document itself https://sway.office.com/tfqj3vUqjfiA30Eu


 I read with some interest this document comparing the perception of taste between like coffees (roasted with a comparable roast profile) on a Probat and an Ikawa Pro (i.e. to illustrate the caveats of using the latter as a sample roaster for the former). https://caravela.coffee/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/A-Heated-Comparison-Ikawa-vs-Probat-FINAL.pdf

The review does state that the roast results are broadly similar due to similar methods, however, I was wondering whether you had noticed any flavour profiles that could be said to be a 'feature' or characteristic of the Sandbox Smart when comparing to the Amazon Dallian using the same green beans?


----------



## Rob1

It's up on BB now. £699 without the cooling tray and currently only in Red but they might still be updating the website.

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/sandbox-smart-roaster.html


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## DavecUK

Rob1 said:


> It's up on BB now. £699 without the cooling tray and currently only in Red but they might still be updating the website.
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/sandbox-smart-roaster.html


 Possibly because I know they will offer the cooling tray and then the Roaster+cooling tray as a bundle...but have no idea what the detail will be on the price


----------



## Turnado

DavecUK said:


> Possibly because I know they will offer the cooling tray and then the Roaster+cooling tray as a bundle...but have no idea what the detail will be on the price


 I spoke to Dave at BB and he suggested near £800 for Sandbox+cooling tray.


----------



## Rob1

Pre-order bundle is up at a somewhat reasonable cost. I don't know who they're kidding with the cost of the cooling bin alone.


----------



## DavecUK

Rob1 said:


> Pre-order bundle is up at a somewhat reasonable cost. I don't know who they're kidding with the cost of the cooling bin alone.


 I'd click on the Bella Barista advertising banner (they are now a forum advertiser), as there is a special offer for forum members purchasing the Roaster bundle


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> I'd click on the Bella Barista advertising banner (they are now a forum advertiser), as there is a special offer for forum members purchasing the Roaster bundle


 How do you click the banner? Do you just keep refreshing until the banner is displayed?


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> How do you click the banner? Do you just keep refreshing until the banner is displayed?


 Sadly, yes....it's something I want to get Tait to fix...and I will

I mean I could have just posted the link here I suppose....but that wouldn't be any fun would it 🤣

P.S. They have also posted details in this area

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/forum/100-discounts-special-offers-from-our-advertisers/


----------



## Ilves

Hello! I'm looking forward to buying this roaster and try to find some info about it. I just found the first review on Amazon US - the owner, in general, is satisfied with it, only mentioned the lack of quality as the latch is not very well aligned. I hope they pay attention to this minor issue. Also, I still can't understand what a power cord do they use - is it detachable or not? They state that there are two versions - 110V and 220-240V, but I couldn't find if I could choose the right EU plug. Well, DIY or an adapter UK EU, not a big deal, but buying something more-less expensive, better to have an appropriate power cord. Another question is how to buy it - it was so nice to buy anything from BB, as I live in Estonia. We don't have any local market and got used to buying such stuff in the UK, but now it seems I have to pay double tax getting something from the UK. Sorry for these irrelevant thoughts; it's just so painful.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Ilves said:


> Hello! I'm looking forward to buying this roaster and try to find some info about it. I just found the first review on Amazon US - the owner, in general, is satisfied with it, only mentioned the lack of quality as the latch is not very well aligned. I hope they pay attention to this minor issue. Also, I still can't understand what a power cord do they use - is it detachable or not? They state that there are two versions - 110V and 220-240V, but I couldn't find if I could choose the right EU plug. Well, DIY or an adapter UK EU, not a big deal, but buying something more-less expensive, better to have an appropriate power cord. Another question is how to buy it - it was so nice to buy anything from BB, as I live in Estonia. We don't have any local market and got used to buying such stuff in the UK, but now it seems I have to pay double tax getting something from the UK. Sorry for these irrelevant thoughts; it's just so painful.


 Did you see the extensive review from DavecUK? Why double tax? Doesn't the agreement currently proposed cover free tariff of goods within the EU and the UK or doesn't this qualify if you buy from Bella Barista?

BB listing: https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/sandbox-smart-r1-roaster-and-cooler-package-deal.html

There's a link to Dave's review there.


----------



## Ilves

Of course, I did watch; I decided to buy the roaster after the review. But there I couldn't find the info about the plug. I only mentioned the review from Amazon as the only end-users review I found. 
About the possibility to order from the UK, there is a big mess, our postal services still state about VAT I have to pay in case I get something from the UK. Maybe they didn't update the info after the deal, but ok, that's a different story


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Ilves said:


> Of course, I did watch; I decided to buy the roaster after the review. But there I couldn't find the info about the plug. I only mentioned the review from Amazon as the only end-users review I found.
> About the possibility to order from the UK, there is a big mess, our postal services still state about VAT I have to pay in case I get something from the UK. Maybe they didn't update the info after the deal, but ok, that's a different story


 Maybe worth dropping Bella Barista an email and ask about the plug, or Dave may know. From my experience, changing the plug does not invalidate the warranty in any way. I've bought a couple of machines and grinders from Bella Barista, and s coffee roaster (Gene cafe) and always changed the plug. At the time, my machine developed a fault (Gicar box) and they never question the fact I had changed the plug.


----------



## mathof

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Why double tax? Doesn't the agreement currently proposed cover free tariff of goods within the EU and the UK or doesn't this qualify if you buy from Bella Barista?


 To the best of my non-expert understanding, goods exported from the UK to the EU will be subject to Rules of Origin to determine whether they are tariff free. That means a specified proportion of the exported product's value must derive from materials manufactured in the UK. The Sandbox Smart is made in Taiwan, I believe.


----------



## il_guru

Since i'm interested too, but could benefit other readers, i just asked BellaBarista and was told the roaster comes with a UK plug, apparently with no detachable cord since they specified i will need an adapter.


----------



## DavecUK

I'm using mine with an adaptor, just make sure you verify there is an active earth on the adaptor..


----------



## il_guru

DavecUK said:


> I'm using mine with an adaptor, just make sure you verify there is an active earth on the adaptor..


 Thanks for the feedback! And obviously for the review, it is really interesting!


----------



## 17845

@DavecUK,

I would like to add an extract fan to the exit vent, how hot does the casing get.

Would I/we be able to fix a fan to the side of the casing ? or could you suggest how to extract etc'.


----------



## DavecUK

I'm sure it's in the review, I'm roasting right now, see what you find and come back to me later.


----------



## 17845

@DavecUK,

Yes you did mention extracting - sorry.

You mention "not too close", so my initial idea of sticking a fan to the casing is perhaps not a good idea.

I'll have to figure out some kind of fan mounting away from the machine.

Thanks for a great review, which I obviously missed parts of.


----------



## Artie

Hi all,

I received this roaster and cooler two weeks ago from Bella Barista. I left a review on their Web site last week. The review is still being moderated, so here's my review in full. I hope it helps to answer any of the previous questions on this thread. (To answer a previous poster's question about the plug - the roaster and cooler both have a standard UK plug.)



> *New to roasting - positive results!*
> 
> I received this roaster last Thursday, roasted my first 3 x 100g green beans on Saturday, and AeroPress'ed my first batch of roasted beans 30 mins ago (I couldn't wait any longer).
> 
> I'm a complete newbie to roasting, so I can't give any comparison to other roasters, but so far I am very impressed with this machine.
> 
> Pros:
> 
> 
> 
> The roaster is compact, surprisingly quiet (compared to YouTube's I've watched of other machines in action) and it has that premium look (well to my taste anyway). It does not look out of place in my kitchen.
> 
> 
> The cooler did its job of rapidly cooling the beans and it also helped to filter away the remaining chaff. The post chaff cleanup operation was made easier with this device, which I was not expecting. The cooler comprises of one of those large PC fans covered by a fine metal mesh under a sieve. If you're handy, you could make one of these yourself, but I'm glad I bought this. It works.
> 
> 
> Further to the above, it's easy to clean and the manufacture even supplies a brush.
> 
> 
> I was impressed with the heat resistant gloves. These are not mitts - I think these must be the improved version compared to the ones I had read about in other reviews. They are similar if not the same as the heat resistant gloves you would use with a BBQ.
> 
> 
> I found the phone app (on Android) intuitive to use and the instructions during the roasting process easy to follow. All made even easier by Bella Barista's guidance on choosing the correct roasting profile for the 1kg of supplied green beans (Espirito Santo - Brazil - Camocim - Organic). The app feels like a v1.0 so I expect further improvements in time.
> 
> 
> The extractor fan above by kitchen hob (Rangemaster cooker hood) easily extracted the smoke produced after first crack. This was a medium roast and didn't produce as much smoke as I was expecting, I noticed very little.
> 
> 
> My first coffee was&#8230;.good! I didn't spit it out. It reminded me of the coffee served in those small Spanish cafes in quaint town squares. I think the taste will improve further after a few more days of degassing.
> 
> 
> Cons:
> 
> 
> 
> The door to the roaster does not close flush with the catch. You have to lift the door just a touch to ensure that it is locked into position. Perhaps the manufacture could consider a carefully placed magnet to give it that snappy premium feel. (The chaff collecting tray could also benefit from this too). However, I consider this a very minor annoyance.
> 
> 
> I am yet to play with the roast profile sharing feature of the application. If this gains popularity, it has the potential to reduce much trial and error, thus less wasted green beans. However, I was dissapointed to see that the manufacture has tried to monotize this feature as well as other features, calling them 'member benefits' with 'free trials'. They even cap the roast history to 20 roasts. This is a deliberate software 'feature' and I doubt it has anything to do with the memory capacity of my own phone, just a cheap ploy for me to part with more money. I hope the manufacturer reconsiders this paritcular business model.
> 
> 
> So far I am very impressed with this roaster. It's early days and I have 3kgs of 12 varieties of green beans arriving today. I might update this review with something long-term, including the quality of the espresso.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I have asked this question before but no one answered. So I'll ask again, as maybe now that the roaster is out there, more is known.

So this roaster has quartz elements. Are they not as sensitive to voltage as the Gene was? By that I mean that the 230V heating element of the Gene is not good for the UK with mains voltage being 240V. A 230V was said to shorten the life of the heating element.

On the Behmor, you can choose which voltage you are operating at: 220V, 230V or 240V.

But how about the Sandbox Smart R1? How does it know which voltage it has to deal with? Is it part of the initial setup?


----------



## DavecUK

@MediumRoastSteam it doesn't know what voltage it is, it just detects temperature and adjusts heater power accordingly.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> @MediumRoastSteam it doesn't know what voltage it is, it just detects temperature and adjusts heater power accordingly.


 Thanks. So there's no risk of shortening the life of the heating element in the same way as it was the case with the Gene? (I.e.: using a 230V element in the UK)


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Thanks. So there's no risk of shortening the life of the heating element in the same way as it was the case with the Gene? (I.e.: using a 230V element in the UK)


 I wouldn't have thought so because the elements have overheat protection.

I did not want to mislead earlier the element can be turned up to 100%< even so that type of element should be fine. Also easy and cheap to replace. As there are multiple elements, a single one can be replaced. I meant to search for them on eBay.


----------



## Sixty9

Hi

I just got this roaster yesterday. I'm curious if anyone knows if the fan on the r1 affects convection heating like on propane drums. I found a post to suggest that for ir roasters fans don't. (https://www.home-barista.com/roasting/rubasse-infrared-roaster-t48374.html#p548823)

Otherwise what would manipulating fan spend do. Dave c's profiles from YouTube don't seem to really touch the fan speed.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Sixty9 said:


> Hi
> 
> I just got this roaster yesterday. I'm curious if anyone knows if the fan on the r1 affects convection heating like on propane drums. I found a post to suggest that for ir roasters fans don't. (https://www.home-barista.com/roasting/rubasse-infrared-roaster-t48374.html#p548823)
> 
> Otherwise what would manipulating fan spend do. Dave c's profiles from YouTube don't seem to really touch the fan speed.


 I did a few roasts on that roaster recently. Fan operating at 30% going to 40% towards the end and through first crack works really well. My understanding is that it's main function is to expel smoke out. As you know, some coffees smoke more than others.


----------



## Sixty9

Hi, just providing my feedback with the smartbox so far.

I've roasted 10+ Of 100g batches, tweaking my parameters until i finally got what i consider to be a really nice roast. Sweet and rich with a nice lingering finish (for espresso).

I find the fan is great for fine tuning the temperatures, and probably does work towards convection heat. More fan = more convection heat but less overall heat.

Based on my results on 100g batches, i've since tried to increase the charge size while attempting to keep the same curve profile. I've maxed out at 130g. I can still get a similar curve and crack time (at under 10 minutes) but i'm pushing the machine as far as it will go. At a 130g batch, the machine set to 100% power and 0% fan after the soak. (130g is better than 100g cause that's gives me 6 shots of espresso instead of 4)

Really enjoying the roaster. It's somewhat automated but i do wish there was a way to trigger events based on temperature, and not just time. But still, it really let's you make somewhat repeatable roasts and lets you tweak the parameters to get nice results.


----------



## Callum_Pg

> On 20/09/2020 at 20:23, Rob1 said:
> 
> I found a video by Chinese DaveC. It's very thorough and long and he has cats.


 He is a Taiwanese who sells coffee beans. His shop name is Tiger.


----------



## Beeroclock

Don't speak Taiwanese

But 12 minutes to reach FC on a 100g load and then just over a minute development time - seems like a very odd profile. Let's just assumie that those temps have any sort of correlation to a conventional roast and dry end was somewhere between 150 and 160c. This would give a Maillard phase of in the region of 8mins - really??

It would seem that he is logging his FC time at 196c and dropping at 199c - really??

No way to tell what the end temp of the bean is.

Then he pulls the cage out of the unit and instead of emptying the beans out so that he can cool them quickly - he leaves the whole unit in the cooler and gets busy cleaning the inside of the roaster - really?? Imho -t's pretty crucial to get those beans cool within 2-4mins after dropping or they're just continuing to "cook".

Then there's the cupping session and instead of breaking the crust - he scopes it all out - rather than letting it settle and just removing the top slurry, odd technique.

Hmmm...


----------



## Mark T

Just started using the Sandbox Smart (your review was really helpful Dave C, and really enjoying over my previous FreshRoast), the only problem I have is roasting a Tanzanian Peaberry with it...

It seems like first crack is both hard to hear, but also comes late for these beans. First time I tried running the standard dark roast profile, but it temperature max'd out at 215-220c (I didn't hear any cracks before then). I then tried with the medium roast profile guessing FC was at 200c, but this resulted in the beans not even being lightly roasted. A couple more tries have similar resulted in temp max outs and/or under roasted beans.

Does anyone have an advice, or even a profile, for how to roast Peaberry in the Sandbox?


----------



## Rob1

Mark T said:


> Just started using the Sandbox Smart (your review was really helpful Dave C, and really enjoying over my previous FreshRoast), the only problem I have is roasting a Tanzanian Peaberry with it...
> 
> It seems like first crack is both hard to hear, but also comes late for these beans. First time I tried running the standard dark roast profile, but it temperature max'd out at 215-220c (I didn't hear any cracks before then). I then tried with the medium roast profile guessing FC was at 200c, but this resulted in the beans not even being lightly roasted. A couple more tries have similar resulted in temp max outs and/or under roasted beans.
> 
> Does anyone have an advice, or even a profile, for how to roast Peaberry in the Sandbox?


 You can't increase the temp?


----------



## DavecUK

@Mark T Peaberrys should take on heat very well, so I'm surprise...what weight of beans are you roasting, can you put your roast curves/charts up?


----------



## Mark T

Thanks for the quick replies!

I've mostly been trying the Sandbox official profiles so haven't played around with the temperatures - although my issue seems to be the roaster getting too hot before the beans reach FC.

I'm roasting 100g of brans at a time.

Apologies had issues uploading images... Here's a link to two on a Google drive.

1) With the official medium roast profile - this time I tried hitting First Crack mark in the profile at 200c (as I assumed even if I couldn't hear it, FC must be around that temperature). This was a complete disaster as the beans weren't even light roasted.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zoff1OOpeUEERsZROJxHB2FgZ7Eri5Ye/view?usp=sharing

2) With the official dark roast profile - this time I tried hitting First crack mark in the profile at 210c. This came out better (at least the coffee was roasted), more like a medium roast at most than dark though.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hc28NOUOpl_Ab_HjMt6z30z8_f9OuFnr/view?usp=sharing


----------



## DavecUK

The roasts are far too fast, so they are almost certainly not cracking. The temperature is read from a probe, so bean temperature will lag behind...especially with a lot of heat rapidly applied. you need to slow it all down and look for 1st in about 10-12 minutes.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Mark T - There's no reason those profiles shouldn't work... Providing you have picked up the right voltage! 









It seems you have chosen 110V? You need to choose 220V.

Make sure you have set up your sandbox smart correctly, to the right voltage, otherwise you will wear out the heating elements in no time.

This would also explain why your temperature was maxing out.

Of course, I'm assuming you are in the UK/Europe.


----------



## Mark T

@MediumRoastSteamI'm actually am in the US now (moved from UK a few years ago).

@DavecUKThanks, that makes sense (I wondered if the temperature was measuring the bean). The Sandbox does seems to error out when the probe measures 220c - that's the reason why i started hitting First Crack at 200c or 210c despite not hearing it.

I'll try modifying the official sandbox profiles to reduce power for the Peaberry and hopefully that will manage the bean temperature lag while keeping roaster temp below 220c.

Thanks for the advice


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Mark T - Oh! That's a relief! 

I had a brief experience with the Sandbox smart, and I never managed to hit such a high temperature (usually first crack + 1 minute). The highest temperature it ever hit was around 207C after FC.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

That's what I had&#8230;

@Mark T - PM me your email you used for the sandbox and I can share the profile with you if you wish. 😉👍


----------



## Mark T

@MediumRoastSteam

Thanks very much, will do!

I'm also waiting for some new non-Peaberry beans to arrive, I suspect my challenges are because of the smaller than normal size of the Peaberry - certainly it doesn't seem to work well with the official profiles unaltered. But regardless would love to find the right profile for it.


----------



## Onemoredrink

Hello everyone! I am a fan of specialty coffee brewed in all possible ways from Italy (Sorry for english I use the Google trad lol), I came across this topic looking for information on this roaster that I have bought and have.

I have already done some roasts to understand the behavior of this machine, I always try to make clear profiles for filter (Nordic style) and clear / medium for espresso.

Recently, the day before yesterday to be exact, I made this Colombia Natural

100 g





































I tries to use Scort's Rao advice Reading his book (aggressive Heat at beginning and decling RoR and dtr %).

I'm still experimenting (my adventure on home roasting Is Just begin) I have to try this cup of coffee (the First roast that I made were no so good and I used for cold Brew and cocktails) ????

Unfortunately I don't know anyone here who has the same roaster as me and I would like to share the experience of use with other people ????

And thanks to Dave for his rewiev that convinced me to buy ????


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Onemoredrink said:


> Unfortunately I don't know anyone here who has the same roaster as me


 Benvenuto! 🙂

@Mark T has one (post above yours) and if memory serves me right there are a couple of other people in this forum who have one too. Also @Artie and @Sixty9. 🙂


----------



## Onemoredrink

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Benvenuto! 🙂
> 
> @Mark T has one (post above yours) and if memory serves me right there are a couple of other people in this forum who have one too. Also @Artie and @Sixty9. 🙂


 Thank you 😁

I'm curious to see the roasting profiles and opinions on the best approach with this machine, for now I'm Happy with the usage experience but I Need much practice 😬


----------



## DavecUK

@Onemoredrink Welcome aboard...you would be better just to post the links without the BB tags...which don't work on this forum.


----------



## Onemoredrink

DavecUK said:


> @Onemoredrink Welcome aboard...you would be better just to post the links without the BB tags...which don't work on this forum.


 I have edited 😬 Thank you! And thanks for the rewiev, I bought this machine reading your opinions 😁


----------



## Onemoredrink

I'm so disappointed.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sandbox-smart/sandbox-smart-roaster-kickstarter-edition/description

From 100 g official to 150 g.

Also on the software side, practically series A customers (who buys new machine) and series B (who has the old one).

Just bought the black model last month, if I knew I was waiting to buy it 😕


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Onemoredrink - I don't understand your post. Has anything change on the product or software since you bought it? The video is just advertisement?


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## Onemoredrink

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Onemoredrink - I don't understand your post. Has anything change on the product or software since you bought it? The video is just advertisement?


 Sorry I forgot to paste the link on Kickstarterhttp://kck.st/3i5SBgQ

For hardware update, we had design updated to our power related circuits which we are successfully to improve our power performance by 15%! Also due to this change, we are willing to enlarge the roasting amount by 50% from the original limitation of 100g to 150g.

"

For software and APP related updates, we have chosen 3 most wanted features that will help our user to explore more during their own coffee roasting journey.

150g official roasting profiles

Roasting history data comparison

Roasting history data output "


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## Onemoredrink

Some days ago, I had already seen their warning of a blue model on Kickstarter and had written to Sandbox support to find out what was changing.

Only the color ... Not accurate 😕


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## B1RMA

Just thought I would add to this section. I've just bought a Sandbox Smart and Bella Barista kindly provided a 1 Kilo pack of Espirito Santos Camocin organic green beans with the machine. Wow they are lovely, I did them on the slow medium roast setting and after grinding them at 9 on the Niche grinder they made a really, really nice cup of coffee not only do they smell nice throughout the process the taste has me hooked. I shall be buying more and trying one or two others in their range. For the record I'm new to all this so don't necessarily take my word as gospel as I only have very little experience in this section of the coffee makers world.


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## B1RMA

I'm a week or so into my Sandbox Smart roaster and just thought I'd share my findings with anyone who may be interested.

3 different green beans have been roasted to date, all are on the Slow medium roast 100g per time.

Espirit Santos from Balle Barista that came with the machine, superb smooth coffee with a wonderful taste.

San Patricio El Limon from Hasbean, superb smooth coffee same lovely texture and taste as Espirito Santo.

Jailbreak from Hasbean, okay but nothing near as smooth as the two above.

All ground on 9 on the Niche, 18g in the Portafilter same temperature and 9 bar on the Pavoni.

I would add I like milk in my coffee all heated to 65 and full fat.

I may well try them as black coffee.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@B1RMA - the sandbox smart, as far as small roasters go, is really good. I had the opportunity to roast on one for a couple of months, and, despite the niggles (handling a hot cylinder with gloves after pre-warm up, roasting through the app exclusively etc) produces an amazing roast in comparison to a Gene Cafe, in my opinion.


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## B1RMA

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @B1RMA - the sandbox smart, as far as small roasters go, is really good. I had the opportunity to roast on one for a couple of months, and, despite the niggles (handling a hot cylinder with gloves after pre-warm up, roasting through the app exclusively etc) produces an amazing roast in comparison to a Gene Cafe, in my opinion.


 Yes as you say handling the basket etc can be a bit awkward but after a few times it's no problem at all. For something that is very much plug in and play it works perfectly every time so far, there are other roast profiles available on the app but I haven't bothered purely and simply because the first results on slow medium were good and I'm still learning how to use the Pavoni so doing everything at one setting at the moment does at least help me understand the results I'm getting and can consistently monitor my results.


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