# Barista Express - problem after cleaning



## dyfrigj (Feb 3, 2021)

I got a Sage Barista Express at Christmas, and after some fiddling have managed to get it all running nicely. Had dialed in all the settings, and was able to get a lovely shot out of it every time, without needing to change anything......until I cleaned it.

The "clean me" light came on yesterday, so I followed the instructions and cleaned the machine using the tablet and the cleaning disc. The tablet wasn't fully dissolved, so I ran the cleaning cycle again, and that was that.

When I went to make my next shot, however, the machine wasn't producing any pressure, and was under-extracting. What's weird is that this under-extraction isn't causing a sour espresso, but a bitter one, and the yield is higher than it previously was.

These are the ratios that I was getting this morning, after cleaning the machine, and grinding on setting 2: 16g dose, 18 second extraction, 56g of yield. Like I say, the pressure dial is showing under-extraction, and the taste is bitter.

I was previously using the same dose and grind, getting a slightly longer extraction time (20-ish seconds), and getting about 46g of yield, with a nice, balanced taste.

Any ideas what has gone wrong here? I have to say, I'm completely baffled, and annoyed at having to start fiddling with the machine all over again.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Cleaning wont do that. The grinder setting and the quantity of grinds set that. Are you checking the weight of grinds that are being used? Bit more info about how you are working with the grinds might help.


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## JCROW84 (Mar 8, 2021)

Sounds like the normal inconsistency's of the Barista Express Burr grinder.

Bare you mind you have now cleaned it, I assume the grinder as well? If so, it will need some slight tweaks and make sure you're tamping consistently.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

dyfrigj said:


> The "clean me" light came on yesterday, so I followed the instructions and cleaned the machine using the tablet and the cleaning disc.


 No point in assuming anything.


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## dyfrigj (Feb 3, 2021)

ajohn said:


> Cleaning wont do that. The grinder setting and the quantity of grinds set that. Are you checking the weight of grinds that are being used? Bit more info about how you are working with the grinds might help.


 I weigh my dose and yield every time, and it's been consistent for a few weeks, since I switched to new beans (fresh North Star El Salvador Chelazos) and dialed them in. I put in 16g, and I normally get out a 46g yield (sometimes a bit less, but no major variation). The flow's usually bit fast - 20 seconds or so - but the coffeee tastes good so I don't worry about it.

I haven't done anything different to what I've been doing twice a day for the past three weeks, which is why I'm confused. I appreciate that I'm not using professional equipment, so there isn't absolute consistency, but it has been remarkably good until yesterday. I didn't give the grinder a clean, so I'll do that tomorrow and see if it makes any difference.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

No I'd leave the grinder alone. You'll get more variable dosing if you clean it out and also need a new fibre washer if you take the centre burr out. In practice all that really needs to be done is remove the outer burr and brush out what you can see.

How many doses of the new bean? A change may alter things for a couple of shots and new beans can need different grinder setting. It is likely to change the dose if you are using the timer.

The only grinder setting I can think of that could cause this sort of thing is setting coarser. There is a some play in the adjustment on a number of grinders but it's usually small. Sage's is bigger so go several setting too coarse and then fine to where you want to go. If you don't the burrs will open up to take out the clearance when you grind. If you knew how little the burrs need to move to make a significant change you'd be surprised. Also always waste a few grams when you change the setting.

The other possibility is too low a dose maybe made worse with light tamping. 16g does sound a bit on the low side to me but bean densities vary. As I used one that is unusually light so takes up less space for a weight I always used the razor tool to check the dose. That can be adjusted up and down.  Also tuned beans with it, me being lazy maybe as every time the grinder setting is changed the output against time changes too. Trouble with the BE is it can need very small twitches of the timer knob. I eventually switched to weighing beans in trial beans on an SGP and only used my usual in the BE. The timer needed miniscule adjustment maybe a couple of times a week but more often when a new bean went in for a while. That is pretty normal for a grinder. Even beans ageing makes a difference.


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## Callum_Pg (Oct 28, 2020)

ajohn said:


> Cleaning wont do that. The grinder setting and the quantity of grinds set that. Are you checking the weight of grinds that are being used? Bit more info about how you are working with the grinds might help.


Ajohn got the point. I measure dose in and also dose out. If you skip dose out, you could get a lower dose for brewing your coffee due to the grinder is not zero retention.


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## dyfrigj (Feb 3, 2021)

Thanks everyone for their suggestions. The issue seems to have resolved itself, without me having to do anything. I think it was just a temporary blip, and all is fine now.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

There isn't much retention in them that comes out when grinding. There is retention that stays there. It gets very compacted after say a week of use and hardly plays any part at all after that. The surface gets refreshed each time it's used is a better way of looking at that.

If people weight beans in the retention is pretty close to zero once the initial stuff is compacted. Some bean's grinds are rather sticky and may spoil that - goes much the same as things are with the hopper on. A couple of grams wont get swept out.


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