# Another Sage BE newb with a problem



## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

I've started using the BE today and I'm struggling.

Although I seem to get the pressure up into the right zone the water just seems to stop about 15 seconds after pressing the button no matter what. Getting the 25 seconds seems impossible.

It's like it suddenly cuts out. I've been playing with grind size, tamping and grind amount but although I'm assuming it's user error I can't seem to increase the time the extraction runs.


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

It's volumetric and will dispense until a set amount of water has passed through the coffee puck.

Make the grind finer and it will mean that the same amount of water (ml) will pass through over a longer duration.

Trail and error it until you reach desired taste (usually guideline is between 25-35 seconds)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

What coffee are you using


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

I'm using a Douwe Egberts espresso roast but I do have these I could try when I know I'm not going to waste it


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

The grind is already on 14, I think it goes Upto 16


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Have you had the white gloves service?


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

I have no idea what that is?


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

Looked online don't believe the BE has that sadly


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

Looks better, if a little short, on 15 on grind and amount at 12 o'clock.

Very bitter and sour though.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MatthewBw said:


> Looks better, if a little short, on 15 on grind and amount at 12 o'clock.
> 
> Very bitter and sour though.


Which Coffee ? The Dowe stuff won't be the freshest


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

I'll give it a go with the other stuff, that was roasted 2 weeks ago.

The one in the image is Douwe


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

you will never pull a decent shot with the egberts. chuck them and hone your skills on the fresh stuff. we cannot help you if you are using that sort of bean


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

Cheers I've chucked them as suggested. First extraction from the fresh beans had double the creme on it and was actually quite nice.

Realised I was using the grind size backward which made things worse (blush) .

Appreciate all the advice and help. It's a massive shock after a bean to cup machine ;-) still not right but getting closer.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Sounds like you're now heading in the right direction... Good luck


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

After playing I was getting somewhere but today I seem back to square one. I made the mistake of moving from a single to double and the machines haywire now.

The manual isn't helping because it's indicating I'm both underextracting based on the lack of pressure and over extracting based on the lack of flow, which clearly is not possible to be both?

Should I be using the double wall filters? I'm beginning to think this machine was a mistake for a newb. I've wasted 2 bags of good coffee so far and barely had a drinkable shot.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

throw the pressurised baskets away! throw the single basket away! you will be left with one double with lots of holes in......only use this one!!!!!


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

no

use the single wall filters and stick to the same size basket until you are comfortable with your variables.

dose 18g into your double basket and extract 36g in 30s, go from there.

Use that as square one, only v small tweaks will be needed from that as a starting point


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Fevmeister said:


> no
> 
> use the single wall filters and stick to the same size basket until you are comfortable with your variables.
> 
> ...


18 + 60% is 28.8......you sure about extracting 40 gms


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

perhaps a 1:2 ratio is easier to grasp at this point

aim for 36g from 18g


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Fevmeister said:


> perhaps a 1:2 ratio is easier to grasp at this point
> 
> aim for 36g from 18g


straws.....clutching.......


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> straws.....clutching.......


not going anywhere near your straw


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Fevmeister said:


> not going anywhere near your straw


don't blame you!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Probably the machine is as easy or hard as many others. It'll always take time with something new to you and you're going through the usual learning curve that everybody goes through. Changing the basket will always necessitate a change in grind (or almost always, or more than likely) so it's understandable it's thrown things out a bit. Probably the double basket is a better one to use - as mentioned above - so stick with that and definitely single walled one. Take a bit of time to review some videos, read some information and be patient with yourself. You're definitely making progress, at first we all assume something is pretty easy, then we start to find out that there are things we don't know (before you didn't know what you didn't know and now you have an idea of what you don't know and eventually you'll know it - simple right?) that can be daunting, with perseverance it gets better and hopefully you'll stick to it.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

If you tell us where about you are, perhaps some kind soul if there is anyone near, can pop round and help you


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

Thanks folks, really appreciate the help. I know you no doubt get these same questions every week. I'm near Coventry (Bedworth) in Warwickshire.

Had a go as recommended, interesting seeing the difference. Measured 18g exactly, tamped on scale (developed a blister from repeat tamping this morning haha), did a few attempts ground to a few different levels too. Even went as fine as it would go on the last test, still can't get any pressure from the machine above pre infusion level.

Just having the confidence the machine is fine and its me that's a numpty would give me peace of mind Im not flogging a lame Sage and to persevere. I knew it would be harder thats probably why I left it in the box for 2 weeks.









Also is it normal to be utterly wired, I haven't even been drinking it only tasting but wow!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

MatthewBw said:


> Also is it normal to be utterly wired, I haven't even been drinking it only tasting but wow!


That sounds pretty normal to me, sometimes I feel like I've drunk less coffee with sips to taste but that gets to me more than if I was actually drinking my usual amount of coffee...

For the machine - have you changed the programming of the cup sizes at all, or is it still out of the box settings for 1 and 2 cup? I hadn't realised that it had those dials to show you if it thinks it's got too much pressure etc. Pretty interesting but also I guess can be confusing. Personally I try not to worry about tamp pressure too much but aim for consistency, it's really easy to start changing everything at once and then you don't know where you are. Sage say on the website that the double basket can take 18 - 20 grams. You might want to try and find a level of fineness that seems about right and then tweak the amount of coffee you're using but you wouldn't want to do both at once.

So you put 18grams in, ground as finely as possible and the pressure dial didn't move above pre-infusion level? Are you able to tell if the machine does ramp up after the pre-infusion (if it changes sound or volume that's extracting?) otherwise you could check just putting an empty cup under with no portafilter in place and see that it definitely changes the amount of water after X amount of time (I don't know what the preinfusion time is)?


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

Haha I'll have to keep my eye on the tasting 

It's out of the box and I did reset to factory just to be sure. The pump does change sound and ramp up but the needle only moves a little. Only time I've got it slightly into the espresso range was with a double wall filter or single wall 1 dose filter.

I'll give the water a measure thanks and pay attention to the tamp.


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

MatthewBw,

I have absolutely zero knowledge of your particular machine and some might say zero knowledge full stop but if you think you might benefit from me trying to help then feel free to PM me.


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

Just managed to get an almost perfect extraction (by my standards anyway) . Concentrating on a consistent tamp seems to have really made a difference. I'm being softer now.

Reduced the dose very slightly and set the grind to quite fine with some Kenyan karimikul coffee.

Pressure was spot on and extraction was the right length of time.

Tasted amazing to my untrained mouth. I nearly did a little dance in the kitchen!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

That's great! Now I think try and stay with that or very near that for while. Natural tendency seems to be to keep playing trying to get even better and its easy to lose where you are.

Also remember for future each bean can be different so your next one may favour a coarse grind with slightly higher dose, so don't be put out if when you start another bag you have yo make changes. Just try to keep it methodical and keep track of what you're doing ideally one thing at a time.


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

That's good to hear Matt. Enjoy!


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

So it's nearly two weeks and I've definitely made progress. I can get a good shot from it every time but it's still varying on the pressure which I assume is my tamping.

I'm not a big fan of the Kenyan roast I currently have. Glad it's ran out.

Things I've discovered so far: the Manual for the sage seems to suggest too much tamping pressure at 15-20kg. Tamping considerably less seems to work well but I'm not sure if that's because I'm missing something else?

Generally getting a good drinkable shot now every time although the pressure seems to vary (tamping?)

I've actually became aware of the coffee quality reducing over time or again perhaps I've missed something. I've had to gradually adjust the grind over time as the coffee has aged. Using the fresh bag I had to adjust it back, interesting.

The steam wand is good but is a massive pain to clean.

Next coffee I just bought is Egyptian Harrar Longbean. Heard good things about it.

I had a go at a popcorn roast really enjoyed it to my surprise. Would like a proper roaster some day


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## kevin (Sep 21, 2014)

I've been using a Sage BE for a year or so, and I can identify with your journey. Definitely freshly-roasted beans make a difference, I usually try to start using beans 3-7 days after they've been roasted and then a week or two after that I need to start making the grind a touch finer each day. Consistent tamping is good, but doesn't make as much difference as the grind courseness and weight of coffee in basket. I got a small cheap set of scales from ebay to help get a consistent amount of coffee into the basket.

On the subject of cleaning the steam wand, as long as you purge it straight after use and then wipe the end with a damp microfibre cloth then it's not too bad. As with most coffee-related things, it's a matter of having a routine and sticking to it.


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## Condyk (Jan 9, 2011)

On cleaning the milk wand ... the standard in a shop is to clean immediately as part of your standard habit rather than leave it to dry. I bulk buy scentless baby wipes and keep a pack close to the machine. They are a little wet and so clean straight away with zero effort. Bulk buy via Amazon means they're super cheap. If you do forget the wand will still clean quickly using a wipe. Much easier/quicker than pretty much anything else. You can also use a standard flannel to clean the portafilter. I bought about 10 brown ones from IKEA several years ago and just replace every few days. They can be washed in the washing machine.


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

I'm finding that it's already welded on even if I wipe it immediately, like the milk is burning onto it. I've taken to using a rough backed sponge which seems to remove it.

I definitely need a good set of scales next. As I tend to change my coffee quite often I am wasting coffee to work out each coffees grind requirements.


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## Condyk (Jan 9, 2011)

Your wipe needs to be wet. A dry wipe, like tissue or cloth, won't cut it. Check your water temperature too. It may be too high so milk is drying quicker than it 'should'. Perhaps unlikely, but worth a check. If it is high then coffee may even taste better turning it down. I'd aim to start at 94-96 but taste counts at the end of the day, so could go either way and it'll also depend on your beans.


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## Flibster (Aug 15, 2010)

I clean the steam wand with a cheap *poundland* damp microfibre cloth. Works well.


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