# Puck screen (Bplus, Flair, mesh screen)



## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

Just would like to share my experience, if someone interested to try one.

I got interested after watching some videos like this, this and this. I got from the Flair official site, which is a bit cheaper(same Bplus made, but it doesn't come in a plastic box, just in a bubble wrap), and shipping cost much cheaper than from Bplus.









And I'm enjoying it. Shots became much more consistent. I had to go a bit coarser. Pucks always come out evenly extracted and uniform. Being an owner of hand grinder it's a nice improvement. One thing to mention is with the puck screen I have to dose lower, 16g in my 18VST.

I found out also this type of puck screen, and wondering if someone has tried it?


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## mathof (Mar 24, 2012)

ting_tang said:


> I found out also this type of puck screen, and wondering if someone has tried it?


 I have been using one that looks like that for about a week. I got it from Coffee Sensor: they call it a lower shower screen. It seems to give the same results as the Robot paper filters that I had been using previously. Sooner or later, I'll do some A-B comparisons.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

mathof said:


> It seems to give the same results as the Robot paper filters that I had been using previously


 thanks for pointing to it, I didn't know that it exists. I have been playing a while with Aeropress filter, but cutting the paper step took me off from it.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I'm interested in trying one. The price is fine but shipping fees are horrible, there's really no reason for shipping to be that expensive for something that can just be sent in a padded envelope. I might email both bplus and coffee sensor and see if they can ship it as normal international mail rather than some parcel service.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> The price is fine but shipping fees are horrible


 Flair shipped for 6$. It's the same bplus made.


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## Gunder (Sep 20, 2020)

ting_tang said:


> One thing to mention is with the puck screen I have to dose lower, 16g in my 18VST.


 Can you elaborate on this? Does it not fit properly? I'm also using a Flare 58 puck screen with my 18g VST, with an 18g dose and find that it fits no problem.


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## Bolta (May 11, 2014)

The screen is 1.7mm thick and I currently use 15g in a 15g AST. I still use a paper filter (cut from a #4 cone) on the bottom, but have replaced the Aeropress filter on top with the Bplus.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Gunder said:


> Can you elaborate on this? Does it not fit properly? I'm also using a Flare 58 puck screen with my 18g VST, with an 18g dose and find that it fits no problem.


 It will depend on the volume your dose takes up in the basket and shower screen depth, volume of dose will vary with different coffee mainly between light and dark roasts.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

ting_tang said:


> Flair shipped for 6$. It's the same bplus made.


 "6 weeks delivery"????


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Found the coffee sensor one sold by Blue star coffee charging 3.50 eur for shipping. Would prefer the bplus/flare so will keep looking.


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## Gunder (Sep 20, 2020)

I bought my Flare screen from them direct. Shipped in about 3 days and took a week to arrive.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> "6 weeks delivery"????


 Was shipped in 1 week after the purchase, took 12 days to be delivered to Ireland.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

Gunder said:


> Can you elaborate on this? Does it not fit properly? I'm also using a Flare 58 puck screen with my 18g VST, with an 18g dose and find that it fits no problem.


 I have a Gaggia Classic and with a normal 18g it doesn't lock in the grouphead. I even got a tiny dent on the puck screen.


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## glenfiddich (Sep 11, 2013)

I have the flair58. Using it with a 17g Strada (VST) basket and a 16g dose.

Getting some mixed results - some much better than I have had without, others not so good. I put the bad shots down to the fact that quite a few parameters change, eg brew temperature, grind size, flow. I also get quite a lot of donutting, which is probably due to the fact that the screen doesn't fit too snuggly in the basket.

I'm going to persist because I definitely think it has value - once I get accustomed to the slight differences, I think I'll be able to consistently get much better shots.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> Found the coffee sensor one sold by Blue star coffee charging 3.50 eur for shipping. Would prefer the bplus/flare so will keep looking.


 Mr.Shades had similar ones in stock, even sold double/triple packs. I usually do 2 milk drinks back to back. And I would avoid cleaning the screen between them. If the ones with holes work the same way, I would prefer to use them.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

ting_tang said:


> Mr.Shades had similar ones in stock, even sold double/triple packs. I usually do 2 milk drinks back to back. And I would avoid cleaning the screen between them. If the ones with holes work the same way, I would prefer to use them.


 That's interesting, I'd have thought the outer rim without any holes would impact things.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@lake_m ^^^^ - (So we don't de-rail Jake's thread 🙂 ) - Apparently you can get something similar from BlueStarCoffee 👍


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Ah.... I didn't know there was a whole thread about these things. (This is what happens when you're a part-timer 😏) I'd better do some reading.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @lake_m ^^^^ - (So we don't de-rail Jake's thread 🙂 ) - Apparently you can get something similar from BlueStarCoffee 👍


 Do you have one like from BlueStarCoffee? Have you had a chance to compare or know what is the difference in action between Bplus and BlueStarCoffee kind one? BlueStarCoffee one is thinner, but outer rim without holes.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ting_tang said:


> Do you have one like from BlueStarCoffee?


 No. I just alerted a member who was interested. 🙂 - I don't own one. As much as I quite like the idea, I'm not sure if that's the right thing for me. I read mixed feedback on puck screens in general.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

I'd never heard of them before, other than Scott Rao and others using aeropress papers to sandwich pucks when doing bloom brews etc.

Are they all pretty much the same or is one better than the other?


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

The BPlus and Flair58 are the same I believe. Some work on the Decent forum seems to show an increase in EY% of c1% vs no screen,

with a more even extraction. Does take about 1-2g of space so need to take into account if you dose close to the screen.

Definately keeps the shower screen cleaner and knocks out easily


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@Stevebee - What about loss of heat to the screen? Does the screen need to be pre-warmed up before hand? Is there any different between the first shot and subsequent shots?


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Stevebee - What about loss of heat to the screen? Does the screen need to be pre-warmed up before hand? Is there any different between the first shot and subsequent shots?


 Flair recommend running the 1st shot 1 or 2c hotter then std temp from 2nd onwards. Haven't noticed a real diff but I pour some boiling water on when I pre heat the cup, before putting it in the portafilter. It's not a huge mass so not sure if there is an effect if not pre warmed but it doesnt affect my workflow too much.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

The Blue Star one looks to be a totally different design more like a metal aeropress filter, ultra thin. What are the Flair and BPLus ones made from? They look more fabric-like.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

lake_m said:


> The Blue Star one looks to be a totally different design more like a metal aeropress filter, ultra thin. What are the Flair and BPLus ones made from? They look more fabric-like.


 Metal. Seems to have layers of different mesh like structure. You can see light through it at some angles but it doesn't bent at all.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

lake_m said:


> The Blue Star one looks to be a totally different design more like a metal aeropress filter, ultra thin. What are the Flair and BPLus ones made from? They look more fabric-like.


 I would say a multi layer mesh. You can ignore some threads on the sides, that's after wiping.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

Gunder said:


> I bought my Flare screen from them direct. Shipped in about 3 days and took a week to arrive.


 Could you forward the link? I've been playing with the Flair website and I can't find it for the life of me! TIA! Graham


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

GrahamSPhillips said:


> Could you forward the link? I've been playing with the Flair website and I can't find it for the life of me! TIA! Graham


 https://flairespresso.com/product/flair-58-puck-screen/


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

Not planned comparison (with and without screen).Was playing with some receipt(GC with a dimmer, Kenyan light roast, infusion with 4-5 bars until first drop for 5seconds, and blooming 30 seconds, 12 seconds with 9 bar for 1:2 ratio, 16gr dose). First shot was pretty balanced, not too acidic as before, more sweetness than I expected from Kenyan(I have been drinking another Kenyan for a while, but without dimmer mod, so couldn't say is it receipt or screen). I forgot to put the screen when was brewing the second shot, it required 16 seconds (interesting, as I heard the screen slows down the flow) with 9 bar for the same yield. Bright acidic, not balanced at all, not sure about sweetness, that's how I remembered previous Kenyan. Puck came out messy. Had to clean the shower screen and give a wash to PF. At least the screen keeps everything cleaner

I've put the screen back, and the same result as the first shot.


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## glenfiddich (Sep 11, 2013)

glenfiddich said:


> I have the flair58. Using it with a 17g Strada (VST) basket and a 16g dose.
> 
> Getting some mixed results - some much better than I have had without, others not so good. I put the bad shots down to the fact that quite a few parameters change, eg brew temperature, grind size, flow. I also get quite a lot of donutting, which is probably due to the fact that the screen doesn't fit too snuggly in the basket.
> 
> I'm going to persist because I definitely think it has value - once I get accustomed to the slight differences, I think I'll be able to consistently get much better shots.


 reporting back - after dosing down even more to 15.5g and turning temperature up by 2 degrees, results are now significantly better and really consistent.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

mr shades ones back in stock


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Cuprajake said:


> mr shades ones back in stock


 That's interesting. I just checked them. Price wise, seems very interesting. However, the spec says the screen is very, very thin! - like 0.2mm!

The BPlus one looks quite thick, more like a wafer construction - multiple layers - rather than a single layer.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

Cuprajake said:


> mr shades ones back in stock


 Ordered from them. Will make some comparison, as much as I can with my experience.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Will be interesting to see how this affects the shot. The outer rim of the screen doesn't have holes in and the mesh makes more sense to me, that said the underside of the basket doesn't have holes all the way to the edge either and water will seep around the edges of the screen anyway. It'll tamp harder than I do if pressure builds behind it, that's for sure. Might retry very long pre-infusion and blooming to see if the screen is any help there.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

Was just chatting to Mr Shades- really helpful and knowledgable. Thanks to everyone for flagging up their puck screens. It bought a 2-pack for £14 so a fraction of the cost of the Flair or the b-plus! Will let you know how I get on!


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

GrahamSPhillips said:


> really helpful and knowledgable


 Any interesting insides you could share or tips?


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

@Gunder @Gunder Out of interest how much did it cost, posted? (and are you impressed with the results??)


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

ting_tang said:


> Any interesting insides you could share or tips?


 They offer a single, double or triple pack. I went for the double pack @£14. Mine is an ACS Vesuvius so I can play with flow and temp , so once they arrive I'll let you know how I get on


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

GrahamSPhillips said:


> They offer a single, double or triple pack.


 Is that for some purposes? Like someone prefers to use 3 screens at the same time, or just a purchase options?


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

Hi @ting_tang Well its partly to have a spare and partly to try the effect of a coffee sandwhich within the portafilter! Just playing really


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## Gunder (Sep 20, 2020)

GrahamSPhillips said:


> @Gunder @Gunder Out of interest how much did it cost, posted? (and are you impressed with the results??)


 Total for the Flair 58 screen was £29.60 (including shipping from the US). It certainly cuts down on clean-up in terms of reducing muck on the shower screen. I think it makes light roast extractions a bit more consistent and repeatable. I doubt it'll do much for darker roasts though.

As a light roast drinker, I don't regret spending the money on it. Having said that, if I mostly used medium and dark roasts, I don't think I'd bother.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Another delivery.

<img data-fileid="58789" data-ratio="75.00" width="1000" alt="20210715_172155.thumb.jpg.2d3494296def3e1b81d669326d6d37f6.jpg" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2021_07/20210715_172155.thumb.jpg.2d3494296def3e1b81d669326d6d37f6.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

There not flat, all are warped, so not sure how they will perform ????


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Cuprajake said:


> Another delivery.
> 
> 
> 
> There not flat, all are warped, so not sure how they will perform ????


 That's a shame, I hope mine aren't warped too. They will likely press into the puck when under pressure so I imagine warping is not good.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

@Cuprajake Mine turned up today - flat as a pancake.. maybe yours got bent by the postman?


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

So: Initial results (1st pull) with Mr Shades portafilter screen? The pull on my Vesuvius was marginally faster if anything, but much less channeling evident. Tasted good too!


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

They came in a box?

Should be bent


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## jscott (Jun 25, 2019)

Two arrived for me today as well.. box intact but both warped, one worse than the other. First pulls using a 15g VST seemed good though, further testing needed though


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Not sure it makes a difference or not

https://youtube.com/shorts/xwqUr6GSOEA?feature=share


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

fwiw i really dont see the point in them after using them. just more faff that i fell into because of forum whispers......something else for the bin


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

Cuprajake said:


> fwiw i really dont see the point in them after using them. just more faff that i fell into because of forum whispers......something else for the bin
> 
> View attachment 58799


 If you interested to compare, I can post you my flair/bplus puck screen for a temporary use. I'm waitingy Mr.Shades ones, so will have some time to play with them.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

@Cuprajake @Cuprajake Seemed to me to keep the screen clean(er), the pour more even and I thought the taste was more balanced. But then its really easy to play with pump pressure on the Vesuvius and I'm pulling 45second shots atm


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Mine is slightly warped too. Haven't used it yet, will tomorrow and see if there's any difference.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

Warped? Like my sense of humour??

🤣


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Cuprajake said:


> Another delivery.
> 
> 
> 
> There not flat, all are warped, so not sure how they will perform ????


 Many are slightly warped - but when sat on a flat coffee bed and with 9 bar above them, they'll be flat very quickly.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Used mine today. Didn't notice any significant difference. Maybe very slightly cleaner and there appears to be very slightly less sediment in the cup (but I could be imagining that). Could be that the screen helps prevent fines migration and it might help if you need a very fine grind. Otherwise it keeps the shower screen clean.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

ting_tang said:


> (interesting, as I heard the screen slows down the flow


 A quick update. I was logging and experimenting with some my shots for the last 2-3 days, and just was curious. Medium blend, 16 in 32out, first 5 seconds with 5-6 bar PI. With a puck screen (flair) I had 27-28 seconds pretty stable result. Without it I was always over 30 seconds, in 32-34s range. Same grind setting etc. I initially dialed in at 27-28 seconds with a puck screen, and 30s+ shots are bit muted, less acidic without puck screen. Does that mean, that puck screen allows to grind finer? i.e. to have similar result I need to go coarser without it. Interesting how will act Mr.Shades's ones, when they arrive.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

I've noticed a big difference in the puck with the screen.. albeit only small differences in taste. I keep meaning to try a turbo shot with and without the screen..


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## Denis S (Jul 31, 2020)

More options:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002963213381.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.521e88ab4lE9or&algo_pvid=59a55209-ae9a-4615-ada2-20931d08e163&algo_exp_id=59a55209-ae9a-4615-ada2-20931d08e163-3

Taobao has one too cheaper.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

I got Mr.Shades's ones. Made a few shots for the iced latte, so can't say much about the taste difference. These days a bit warm for me to make a taste comparison of the espresso.

By real measurements: similar time like without shower screen(16 in 32 out in 30-31 seconds, a bit faster probably. With a multilayer screen I'm always within 26-28s range). Puck came out wet. With a multilayer screen I have always dry, cookie shaped puck. Just reminder: because of thickness of the multilayer screen (flair one), I'm dosing 16g in a 18g VST basket without screen and with Mr.Shade's one as well. So not sure how adequate is this comparison. Maybe need 18g dose with and without screen comparison.

But definitely they act in a different way. Also what I noticed - it looks like a ground coffee doesn't stuck inside of the multilayer screen, holes are too tiny and I never seen on top of the screen any particulars after brewing. With Mr.Shades one I can see some stuck coffee within the holes and it needs some wiping. Also like @Cuprajake I had some coffee grounds on top of the screen after the brewing, looks like it doesn't protect well the shower screen.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Ive tried a few times now and not seen much difference tbh, makes the pull tiny bit slower not much.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

Cuprajake said:


> Ive tried a few times now and not seen much difference tbh, makes the pull tiny bit slower not much.


 Multilayer is opposite, makes shots faster, so I have to grind finer. Without screen it's slower and this blend doesn't taste well in 29-30s+ range. Could be that because of I'm using 16g in a 18g screen without screen?

But initially I dialed in with the multilayer screen, if I reduce the temperature (for 1-2 degrees for instance), in theory, shots should go faster?

But overall, I like how clean portafilter and screen comes out with a multilayer one. One knock and puck comes out like in the videos.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I haven't seen grinds on top of the Mr Shades screen and it does keep the shower screen spotless. Will have to backflush and clean the screen and then use it for a week or two to see how dirty it gets. Want to try the bplus style screens because they'll probably make more difference to the shot. As I suspect, these thin screens don't make much difference, if any.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

ting_tang said:


> Ordered from them. Will make some comparison, as much as I can with my experience.


 So, I had a chance to compare a single layer (Mr.Shades one) vs a multilayer (flair).

The taste improved with both of the screens. Probably, just my puck preparation is not too good, without screens I have more unbalanced shots, and a brew time fluctuates noticeable without them.

I have been using the same blend for a month. Sweet spot which I found was around 26-28 seconds, with 5 seconds of PI with 3-4 bars, and 9 bar for the rest of the time. PID/Dimmer mod Gaggia Classic, Kinu Phoenix grinder, 18g VST basket.

1. I have been pulling shots without changing the grind settings and dose. 2-3 shots with each set up. Target: 16g in 32g out, in 26-28seconds. Dialed in with a multilayer screen.

Multilayer: 26, 25, 28 seconds.

Single layer: 31, 30, 32 seconds.

Without screen: 34, 36. It was a really slow shots and messed pucks, so I stopped after the second one. Definitely it was requiring coarser grind and higher dose.

2. I have been comparing a single layer vs no screen, using a correct dose in 18g basket. Initially dialed in with a single layer screen. I needed to decrease the temperature for 1 degrees (multilayer really requires a bit higher temperature). With 18g dose, I found the sweet spot at around 27-28 seconds.

Single layer: 27, 29, 30.

Without screen: 31, 32, 33.

If someone interested in 'puckology', below some photos.

Multilayer:









Single layer:


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I've been using a single layer puck screen - from Shades of Coffee - for a few days now with the Elizabeth. my main observations were:

- no stuck pucks, ever.
- clean shower screen. But, after flushing for cleaning after a shot, brown water still comes out. So it's not that no fines go behind the shower screen; it's simply significantly, if not almost fully, reduced. 
- I had to grind finer, just over a full mark on the Niche to achieve the same time with the same 18g dose, exactly as mentioned in the post above. In other words, shots ran faster (e.g: 34s without the screen, 27s with the screen) if the grind size was unchanged.
- The thermal mass is negligible: It heats up as fast as it cools down.
- I didn't notice any difference in flow. Yet, I don't understand how it can make the shots run faster.
- I didn't pick any "wow" factors in terms of taste. My tastebuds are not amazing, however.
- the screen needs to be thoroughly cleaned (rinsed) afterwards as you can clearly see coffee blocking the very small holes.


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I've been using a single layer puck screen - from Shades of Coffee - for a few days now with the Elizabeth. my main observations were:
> 
> - no stuck pucks, ever.
> - clean shower screen. But, after flushing for cleaning after a shot, brown water still comes out. So it's not that no fines go behind the shower screen; it's simply significantly, if not almost fully, reduced.
> ...


 Pretty much the same as my experience. A relatively cheap and reusable solution to the stuck pucks / cleaning situation is enough of a win for me!


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> In other words, shots ran faster


 Does that mean it increases the extraction?


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## Chriss29 (Oct 21, 2020)

Kjk said:


> Pretty much the same as my experience. A relatively cheap and reusable solution to the stuck pucks / cleaning situation is enough of a win for me!


 Me too! I've used it for a month now and can't see me stopping anytime soon.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ting_tang said:


> Does that mean it increases the extraction?


 I suppose, if it forces you to grind finer, yes. But what do I know... Tastes the same to me! 🙂


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## Denis S (Jul 31, 2020)

Just a few considerations:

- if you use a darker bean or medium + the screen wont help you, it will make shots taste worst, cause you extract too much

-if you do not leave enough headspace for the 1.7mm thick screen, the puck wont swell during extraction so the top later 0.5mm will compress and the water wont wash the bottom part of the puck, so you get a really uneven extraction

- the bplus was made for light roasts, to extract more out of them so they are not that sour (by experiments it shows a 2-3% extraction increase)

- you must wash it after each shot, and you must soak it in cleaning solution or dish washer every 1 max 2 weeks. If you put it into a bowl with cleaning solution you will see the water gets brown, it can mold, so deeply clean it often

For people who are pulling more shots, and enjoy it, make sure you buy 2-3 of these and you dump with the screen and recover it after it cools down from the puck bin.

For example if you use 18g dose into a 18g basket and add the bplus, you might want to drop the dose to 16.5 or 17g and use the bplus. Or move to a 20g basket with a 18g dose.

The screen (bplus,flair,chinese) is 1.7mm thick, this correlates with ~ 1.5-2g of coffee


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

@Denis S have you tried that one from Shades of Coffee?


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

Shots running faster with the screen: due to less compression of the puck? More consistent flow of water? I've only got experience of the Mr Shades Screen using on my Vesuvius. Seems to produce more consistent results and a better taste.. not bad for a 7quid investment! ??


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

Does anyone know, what is the holes size of flair screen?

Looking for to get one from AliExpress to pair with my Flair screen, but they have options from 50 to 150 microns.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

ting_tang said:


> Does anyone know, what is the holes size of flair screen?
> 
> Looking for to get one from AliExpress to pair with my Flair screen, but they have options from 50 to 150 microns.


 I think shades will have a bplus style screen available very soon.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@rusty pie - the only "explanation" is from @GrahamSPhillips on why the shots run faster. I'm finding the same with Mr. Shades screen.

I don't know why that is either.


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @rusty pie - the only "explanation" is from @GrahamSPhillips on why the shots run faster. I'm finding the same with Mr. Shades screen.
> 
> I don't know why that is either.


 The effect on shot speed is puzzling. It seems that everyone on this thread (@MediumRoastSteam, @ting_tang, @GrahamSPhillips) report that shots run faster with the puck screen (both mesh and holes types). However, a few videos I have seen report that shots run slower, for example:






I thought common sense is that if the puck screen reduces channelling as it claims to do, that should result in slower shots, or am I missing something?

Yet some people are getting the opposite. It is interesting that the science behind something which looks so simple isn't that simple after all.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Doram said:


> Yet some people are getting the opposite. It is interesting that the science behind something which looks so simple isn't that simple after all.


 My thoughts exactly Doram! With the Mr. Shades screen (not the mesh one, aka. Flair, BPlus) - The shots are running faster for sure. I've been using for just over a week now, and the experience for me is still very much the same:

- Shots run faster (meaning I have to grind finer with the screen. About 1 mark down on the Niche Zero);
- No noticeable difference in the cup taste wise;
- No difference in terms of consistency (But I'm not a good example as I only have two coffees a day);
- Shower screen is nice and clean.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

@MediumRoastSteam The Bplus is a MUCH thicker screen than Mr Shades. So maybe that explains the difference? @ting_tang did you compare the two in the end and if so what did you find?


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

GrahamSPhillips said:


> did you compare the two in the end and if so what did you find?


 The last comparison is this for now.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/60969-puck-screen-bplus-flair-mesh-screen/?do=embed&comment=853160&embedComment=853160&embedDo=findComment

I have been using Kinu Phoenix grinder that time. I have DF64 now, but didn't compare yet.



MediumRoastSteam said:


> The shots are running faster for sure.


 I think Sprometheus tried to explain what we are noticing with a faster flow at this time point, but by some reason he experienced the opposite. Could be because of the pressure? (I'm using 6 bar with my screens).


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

GrahamSPhillips said:


> @MediumRoastSteam The Bplus is a MUCH thicker screen than Mr Shades. So maybe that explains the difference?


 I'm not comparing the two (As I never seen or used a mesh one). I'm just stating the facts I found with Mr. Shades one (non-mesh) compared with not using one at all.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ting_tang said:


> I think Sprometheus tried to explain what we are noticing with a faster flow at this time point, but by some reason he experienced the opposite. Could be because of the pressure? (I'm using 6 bar with my screens).


 I did watch that video. And I have no idea. His findings are with the meshed (flair, bplus) version, so I just deemed as his findings as non-applicable to my case (because I'm not using the same type of screen).


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I just deemed as his findings as non-applicable to my case (because I'm not using the same type of screen).


 Fair enough, but it would still be interesting to find a sciency-ish explanation to why a thin screen with holes creates faster shots while a thicker mesh screen would have the opposite effect, wouldn't it? Can't coffee be a little simpler? 🤣


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Doram said:


> Fair enough, but it would still be interesting to find a sciency-ish explanation to why a thin screen with holes creates faster shots while a thicker mesh screen would have the opposite effect, wouldn't it? Can't coffee be a little simpler? 🤣


 I'll buy a thicker mesh screen once Mr. Shades stocks it. Then I'll try to add method to the madness. I'm sure it will be nonsense, but I can try! 🤣

Currently, this post seems to sum up. @ting_tang - Do you have any ideas/rationale in terms of behaviour between both versions?

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/60969-puck-screen-bplus-flair-mesh-screen/page/4/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=853160&embedComment=853160&embedDo=findComment#comment-853160


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Do you have any ideas/rationale in terms of behaviour between both versions?


 Dunno, I ended with using the non-mesh to keep the shower screen cleaner. And using the mesh one only for a light roasts, as it gives more tastier and balanced shots with them by my experience. Tested with some nice Kenya Kiangoi AB. Screen was laying around for a while without usage(it requires some additional steps, like cleaning etc), because I was using a medium blend , and shots were nice without the screen. So after struggling to dial-in Kenyan with 5-6 shots without screen, tried with it, and got acceptable results in 2 shots.

I'm dosing 18g with non-mesh, and 16g with a mesh one in a 18g VST. I will probably make an additional test with a DF64 grinder, as there is a noticeable improvement in compare with Kinu Phoenix(which I have used during the previous test).

What is noticeable is, that mesh screen requires less pressure to pass the water through (because of it's a mesh?), it's noticeable when washing or when removing the portafilter after the shot, non-mesh has some water on top of the screen with a floating coffee grind, and mesh is dry, same as the pucks coming out from the mesh and non-mesh.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ting_tang said:


> non-mesh has some water on top of the screen with a floating coffee grind, and mesh is dry, same as the pucks coming out from the mesh and non-mesh.


 What machine do you have? This is not my experience with the non-mesh one! 😂

The puck is dry, knockable and solid. There's no water on top of the screen, and very little coffee grinds (maybe 10? - yes, that little!).

So maybe it's dependent on different machines?

I'm using VST 18, Lelit Elizabeth and Niche Zero with a medium/light roast from Ethiopia.

This is crazy... I feel like people are experiencing completely different results, which may be dependent on what machines/grinders/baskets they have?


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> What machine do you have? This is not my experience with the non-mesh one! 😂
> 
> The puck is dry, knockable and solid. There's no water on top of the screen, and very little coffee grinds (maybe 10? - yes, that little!).
> 
> ...


 My combo is Niche Grinder/Vesuvius. I tend to use a lever profile or a flat 6bar; I'll try with a more conventional E61 profile and report back


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> What machine do you have?


 Gaggia Classic pre2015.



MediumRoastSteam said:


> There's no water on top of the screen, and very little coffee grinds


 The puck more solid than without the screen, but still have some stuck grounds on the bottom of the basket.

It's a very similar to this:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/60969-puck-screen-bplus-flair-mesh-screen/?do=embed&comment=851735&embedComment=851735&embedDo=findComment

What kind of pressure do you use with the screen?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ting_tang said:


> What kind of pressure do you use with the screen?


 9 bar flat. On mine, it's not as much fines as Jake's.

Photo here:

View attachment 59810


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> On mine, it's not as much fines as Jake's.


 I have a similar time to time, but mostly like on the photo below:


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

I emailed Ade @ Mr Shades yesterday @DavecUK I know they are forum sponsors. Incredibly friendly, helpful and responsive. Ade confirmed they will be stocking the bPlus type screens for around £15 (so a fraction of the Bplus price). At that price I plan to order one and do the comparison

G


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

GrahamSPhillips said:


> and do the comparison


 I can send you mine for comparison, if it takes a while until Mr.Shades will stock. Drinking mediums these days, so don't really need it for now.


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## Bicky (Oct 24, 2019)

GrahamSPhillips said:


> I emailed Ade @ Mr Shades yesterday @DavecUK I know they are forum sponsors. Incredibly friendly, helpful and responsive. Ade confirmed they will be stocking the bPlus type screens for around £15 (so a fraction of the Bplus price). At that price I plan to order one and do the comparison
> 
> G


 Hurray! I looked into the Bplus and Flair ones, but they seem stupidly overpriced for what they are! Worth a go for ~£15


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

GrahamSPhillips said:


> I emailed Ade @ Mr Shades yesterday @DavecUK I know they are forum sponsors. Incredibly friendly, helpful and responsive. Ade confirmed they will be stocking the bPlus type screens for around £15 (so a fraction of the Bplus price). At that price I plan to order one and do the comparison
> 
> G


 Unfortunately, they have not renewed their sponsorship, it ran out about a week ago. :classic_sad:


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> Unfortunately, they have not renewed their sponsorship, it ran out about a week ago. :classic_sad:


 That's a surprise tbh.. ah well..

@ting_tang Th@ting_tang Thanks and yes please if the Shades ones don't arrive soon.. very kind!


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Mesh style screens from shades in 58.5mm and 57.5mm (robot) now up! https://www.shadesofcoffee.co.uk/stainless-steel-mesh-puck-screen-or-contact-screen-585mm-575mm---50-micron-mesh

I have one for the robot but won't be able to test properly until next week. Can only confirm that it fits and works right now!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> What machine do you have? This is not my experience with the non-mesh one! 😂
> 
> The puck is dry, knockable and solid. There's no water on top of the screen, and very little coffee grinds (maybe 10? - yes, that little!).
> 
> ...


 Using an 18g VST, the shades thin screen and a light/medium Ethiopian ground with the Niche my experience seems identical to yours. The top of the screen is almost completely clean when the shot is finished and everything is dry.


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## Roko (Apr 23, 2021)

Unsure if this has been mentioned before, but both mesh and non mesh screens can also be found on aliexpress for those looking after non-standard pf sizes (eg 49, 51, 53mm).

I don't need it for cleanliness but I'm keen to try if it does anything to the flavour. Might be a while until they arrive.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I ordered a MR Shades mesh screen yesterday but just cancelled it.....I noticed the mesh size was 50um which sounds really fine to me. I can't find info on the B plus or Flare mesh size but it looks coarser to me in images. Anyone any idea what the ideal size is? On one hand paper filters are finer than 50um, and the finer the mesh the better it's going to be at keeping the shower screen clean, but on the other hand the finer the mesh the more pressure will build up behind it and compress the puck. Does anyone know what the B plush mesh is? In the absence of knowing what is best I can at least go for the tried and tested......or maybe somebody has compared multiple different mesh sizes from aliexpress or wherever.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Rob1 said:


> I ordered a MR Shades mesh screen yesterday but just cancelled it.....I noticed the mesh size was 50um which sounds really fine to me. I can't find info on the B plus or Flare mesh size but it looks coarser to me in images. Anyone any idea what the ideal size is? On one hand paper filters are finer than 50um, and the finer the mesh the better it's going to be at keeping the shower screen clean, but on the other hand the finer the mesh the more pressure will build up behind it and compress the puck. Does anyone know what the B plush mesh is? In the absence of knowing what is best I can at least go for the tried and tested......or maybe somebody has compared multiple different mesh sizes from aliexpress or wherever.


 I'd have to grab mine to check but I'm pretty sure that on the shades mesh screen, the top branded layer is a smaller holed mesh but the rest of the layers is a mesh with larger holes.

Maybe the finer mesh is meant to go up against the puck to make it less likely to pull coffee into the screen when the OPV kicks in? Must admit, I've been using it with the logo facing up but will try the opposite way around tomorrow. Certainly haven't noticed any flow issues due to finer mesh, if anything the puck has been saturating slightly faster than with the robot stock screen. Can't comment on taste differences until a coffee I'm familiar with arrives this week.

On the robot there's quite a few areas where there are no holes in the stock screen. Around the edges and in the middle where the silicone piece is to insert/remove the screen. Interested to see if the extra holes in the mesh screen mean a more even extraction. There must be some restriction to flow in those areas with the stock screen but I'm no physicist so can't make a truly scientific assessment.


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

I ordered a pair of mesh screens for E61. Got the thin single disc one too so interested to do some comparative testing between the two.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Update on my post, not sure having the finer mesh being against the puck makes any difference on my robot as when lifting the levers, coffee seeps around the the screen as the puck lifts anyway, not sure that would happen on a pumped machine though as the headspace is very small but the puck lifts a fair amount on the robot.

I'm now sure shots are running slightly faster with this screen. Not a huge amount but the cone on the bottomless shot seems to be larger than usual during the shot. Typically, the robot doesn't get a large cone as per pumped machines. If I ever try to push a higher flow through to create a larger cone, it usually results in surges (kind of like mini channels) from certain areas of the basket whereas this screen seems to allow an evenly distributed higher flow through the whole puck. I think this is a robot specific issue, perhaps the holeless areas of the stock screen cause some weird flow paths/restrictions. Want to experiment more before confirming this though, just an early observation.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

With the single layered screen, for this Kenyan Coffee from Foundry I'm drinking, very difficult to extract, I'd even go as far as saying this type of puck screen encourages channeling, very visible. Removed the screen and no channeling visible.


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## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

Did anyone compare the mesh screen with paper filter?

The ones from Cafelat fits the regular 58 basket:

https://www.cafelat.co.uk/products/robot-paper

You can put them at the bottom and/or at the top of the puck, they allow finer grind and higher extraction.


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## Ren (Oct 27, 2019)

H


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

Mesh type screen finally arrived from China. It looks well made and is quite thick (need to hold it against the window to see any light come through, as seen in photo). Had a few tries and it seems to stop most of the slurry from getting to the shower screen (and beyond into the group). Shots from a bottomless look good. Possibly run faster but I'm not sure - didn't do a proper experiment. Pucks look neat, but the screen is stuck to them when knocked out (at least with the coffee I am currently using which is on the darker side). This isn't an issue for me.

Do shots taste better? I don't know, but it seems logical that the screen can reduce the risk of channelling as it keeps the puck together. I can't see why it would have a negative effect on shot quality, and it does help to keep the machine cleaner, so for now I am happy with it.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I ordered some from China after cancelling my order from Shades. I got three one 150um, one 100um and one 50um so will probably be selling one or two on the forum at some point. Only tried one so far and the shot does seem to run faster. Might need to grind finer and dose a bit less, I don't know.

I also got a bunch of other stuff from China I'm pretty impressed with. Two needle style distributors that are very different and a Tiamo portafilter cradle you can tamp onto to replace an old tamping mat. Also got a few silicone stands for the tampers and various distributors I've got.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

Rob1 said:


> I got three one 150um, one 100um and one 50um so will probably be selling one or two on the forum at some point. Only tried one so far and the shot does seem to run faster.


 How did you find these three please ? Which one of them do you plan to keep ? Thx


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I've not done enough testing yet and only used one so far.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

I bought a couple of thin puck screens from Mr SHADES. Definitely reduced channelling and improved both consistency and taste. Then I saw an offer on the Flair puck screen. It's way way thicker and very dense. It has all the same benefits just more so. Highly recommended based on my experience


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> I've not done enough testing yet and only used one so far.


 Have you had a chance to test these to the point you've decided which one(s) you like/ don't like?

Cheers


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

Is anyone using puck screens from AliExpress in pair with a flair/bplus one? Which thickness and hole size would you recommend to have the same effect?


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

So after extensive trial and error I'm convinced of the overall benefits of puck screens.

The Flair screen is a definite albeit small improvement over the Mr Shades thin version

Other versions are available!


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## Denis S (Jul 31, 2020)

bplus or flair is 1.7mm thick, with a mesh of 150microns.

Aliexpress ones work but they can have sharp poorly finished edges (so you might want to finish them with sandpaper) some of them are not even - look into the light- and some of them have a problem with grinds going inside the mesh and they are really hard to take out (dont know why-probably mesh screen size is different).

If you want to compare a knock-off with the real deal (flair/bplus) look into a light or into the sun and you will see what I mean.


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

ting_tang said:


> Is anyone using puck screens from AliExpress in pair with a flair/bplus one? Which thickness and hole size would you recommend to have the same effect?


 I have this one from AliExpress (pics available a few messages above). There are others which are even cheaper, and from my experience with AliExpress they are probably all the same and come from the same place, though I can't be sure of course. (I also wouldn't be surprised if the ones sold for $35 are actually the same thing from the same factory in China with a brand name printed on them, but again - maybe I'm wrong).

I can't compare it to anything else because this is the only one I tried, but the quality seems decent. It fits well in a standard 58 mm basket, easy to clean and doesn't show any signs of rust or deterioration. It is excellent for keeping the shower screen clean - after a shot with it there seems to be nothing on the shower screen, compared to visible grinds on the screen without it. I still wipe the screen with paper after every shot, but with the puck screen the paper usually comes out almost completely clean.

I can't say for sure that it reduces channelling, but maybe it does have this effect. I definitely didn't see any negative effect on shot quality.

Only negative point is that when I knock out the puck, the puck screen usually sticks to it. I try to do little sharp knocks to get the puck screen out before the puck, but often they come out together and I need to separate the puck screen by hand from the puck. This isn't a big deal at all but thought it's worth mentioning. I certainly think this small niggle is worth it, as I don't need to drop the shower screen for cleaning so often (though I still drop it every few days, I just can't help myself, lol)


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## dré (Dec 26, 2020)

GrahamSPhillips said:


> I bought a couple of thin puck screens from Mr SHADES. Definitely reduced channelling and improved both consistency and taste. Then I saw an offer on the Flair puck screen. It's way way thicker and very dense. It has all the same benefits just more so. Highly recommended based on my experience


 Where was the flair screen offer (pretty please)


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

I think I read the closest to bplus is 150um but I doubt it makes much difference.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> How did you find these three please ? Which one of them do you plan to keep ? Thx





PortafilterProcrastinator said:


> Have you had a chance to test these to the point you've decided which one(s) you like/ don't like?
> 
> Cheers


 I've tested two, one 150um and one 100um. I have no reason to believe I'll see anything substantially different from the 50um.

With the same dose and grind setting I don't notice any real difference to shot quality. If my prep was flawed they would probably make things more forgiving so I might see a difference in that case. They do a very good job of keeping the shower screen clean though. The pucks are drier, however I have noticed holes getting blocked much more often in the VST basket despite slightly less residue left behind.

I have a flow profiling machine and using an ordinary profile the screens cause a slower ramp up to pressure so on a non-profiling machine I can see the advantage. I also see an advantage with long low pressure 'pre-infusion' (which is really a 'blooming time'). In the past when restricting or stopping flow for a period, my theory was the puck would expand and result in channelling, and shots were never very good. These screens seem to cause extreme compression similar to what I saw when I was experimenting with one of those spinner distribution tools by hacking the adjustment mechanism to allow the tool to be screwed down into the coffee compressing it as it moved grinds around. The effect on shot quality was not great in that case and I stopped doing it even though the flow from the bottomless portafilter was visually better. The screens have a positive effect on the visuals (even with very old coffee) without the negatives of the spinner.

The main advantage of them as far as far as I can see is the allow a lower dose and finer grind in baskets designed for bigger doses as the thickness of the screen artificially increases puck depth. The right puck depth is necessary for a good extraction and is the reason you can't stick 9g in an 18g VST and get a good shot. Decreasing dose and grinding finer will make achieving a higher EY easier, which is helpful for light roasts and tight ratios people commonly use. I don't believe the screens have a significant effect on EY beyond this, though perhaps they force a puck to hold together longer too.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

Rob1 said:


> extreme compression


 Thanks Rob.

I did grab a 100um from etsy, paying ~£18. This is very well made and is of similar thickness.

The shots on Evo consistently hits 10+ bar pressure and we have always pulled lovely shots. She is pretty forgiving even if the beans are a bit out of date or the puck prep is not good.

I do think, on Evo, it pushes the extraction to two extremes.

Without offending anyone, who may love the puck screen, we didn't like the cup. I found the pour a little rushed.

Using the same grind settings, dose and output, we pulled a few shots from dark, medium dark and medium beans on Evo. The shots were too sour, which I think is specific to Evo. It's just not me, my wife and daughter couldn't drink the coffee. I had to cut their coffee with milk. As we don't like sinking the coffee, I had to grit my teeth to finish the cups. The same set of beans, without the puck screen, gave us nice shots.

One of the Evo users, who exclusively drinks dark beans only, had a similar experience. I have heard this screen comes good on light beans. I do like light beans; but, given my experience, I am not all keen to give it a try and waste the expensive beans.

In a nutshell, I am afraid, it wasn't a pleasant experience and it's gathering dust. 😊


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> Thanks Rob.
> 
> I did grab a 100um from etsy, paying ~£18. This is very well made and is of similar thickness.
> 
> ...


 If the shot ran faster and the shots were sour can you not just grind finer to compensate? If you're not pre-heating the screen, you might see a slight temperature drop that won't help.

@Rob1 I thought I read somewhere that the holes on calibrated baskets were sized for a particular dose, is that not the case? I could be remembering this fact completely wrong.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

@newdent I could and did think on those directions. The screens are dipped in hot water and/or the temp was put up by 1.5C each on the group and the brew boiler on my Evo!

On these beans, the lack of screen gives me a great cup. I just don't see any an advantage. It's just the curiosity of what if, which, IMO, requires measuring the TDS and EY to compare the outcome with and without the screen. 😊


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

newdent said:


> @Rob1 I thought I read somewhere that the holes on calibrated baskets were sized for a particular dose, is that not the case? I could be remembering this fact completely wrong.


 I'm not sure about size of holes. Possibly. I remember positioning and number of holes but don't remember size (aside from holes of a consistent size compared to stock baskets)...

The stated dose is just an approximation for fill height though and probably based on the assumption an average medium/light roast is used. I think IMS do things differently to VST by focusing on basket depth and translating that to a dose range.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

How do you clean your puck screens? I used to clean with a steam and have been soaking in cafiza once a week. Wondering am I overcleaning or undercleaning.


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

I bought the 50 micron puck screen from shades of coffee and used it with an ACS Minima without flow control and an 18g VST. Grinding with Niche.

When using the puck screen with an 18g dose the shot slowed and under extracted. A lower dose is required to account for the thickness of the screen.

Using a 17g dose and the same grind setting, a shot with the puck screen consistently ramps up to full pressure faster and the overall shot time is lower.

I was able to grind one step finger with the puck screen. Visually bottomless shots didn't look any better (maybe worse) with lighter roasts. So far the shots seem more balanced and sourness is reduced (possibly due to finger grind). May benefit lighter roasts although I have to do more testing. I wouldn't use it with a medium/dark roast.

If the screen does not improve shot quality I wouldn't personally use it to keep the shower screen clean, especially if you pull multiple shots. Bit of a faff in my opinion. Then again using an Minima I can backflush with chemical without worrying about other maintenance steps.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

ting_tang said:


> How do you clean your puck screens?


 Is there any pressure built in an empty pressurised basket which can help to wash the puck screen?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ting_tang said:


> Is there any pressure built in an empty pressurised basket which can help to wash the puck screen?


 You could try with a blind basket, see what happens. I don't think it will work.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

I think a blind basket won't work, as there is no water flow, once pressure built.

I have a pressurised basket and tried this morning, I did cleaning of the screen(soacking+under the steam) and machine yesterday. After first try I got clean water. I made a shot, and checkout what I got.

View attachment 61721


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

Actually, I did a stupid thing (apologies, was just before my first cup of coffee). Photo on the previous post is 'just after the shot', I didn't make sure that the shower screen is clean etc. I sacrificed another shot to myself, of course, for science purposes.

1. I made a shot
2. Rinsed the shower screen
3. Put the pressurized basket without puck screen, and made sure that a clean water coming out
4. Also, I rinsed the puck screen in a cup with shaking in the water before washing it in the pressurized basket (to check if there is any benefits using the pressurized basket against the normal rinsing).

And here is my result:









Will continue during the next few days.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I don't think it will work.


 You were right. Have been cleaning in pressurized basket for the last days. But today did a control cleaning with a steam (after cleaning in pressurized basket). And got this:


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

I made a bigger hole in a pressurized basket (1.5mm), and amount of the debris coming after each shot are very similar to what I have after the steam cleaning. However, steam cleaning still extracts additional amount of debris. But I liked the workflow, so will try to play with a different hole diameters etc.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Does soaking in cafiza get it properly clean?

The pressurised basket sounds like a good idea if it works.


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

newdent said:


> Does soaking in cafiza get it properly clean?


 It does, water gets brown. But there are particulars which should be washed out with a pressure. So I normally have been soaking, and cleaning with a steam. But it's a bit messy, and there is always stuck coffee grounds after each shot.

Testing with 1.5mm for now, which looks like generates a certain pressure, but it's under 9 bar, as no water coming out from the OPV. With a standard size hole on a pressurized basket there was some water coming out from OPV, so flow was not maximized and the hole was too small to wash out those particulars, now they are coming out.

But some water still coming out from 3 ways valve, maybe need to to reduce the pressure with a dimmer before switching off the pump, so particulars won't stuck again because of 3 ways valve.


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## darkstefano (Jan 19, 2020)

Someone tried the puck mesh of bluestarcoffee? They are good?


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

No but the screens from Shades of Coffee are very reasonably priced and work well


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

darkstefano said:


> Someone tried the puck mesh of bluestarcoffee? They are good?


I’ve got their screen but not the mesh one for my Pavoni and I’m not a fan of it. This isn’t specific to Blue Star as I found their products and service to be very good, I just don’t like the screen and find a aeropress paper works much better.


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## darkstefano (Jan 19, 2020)

Thanks.
But anyone who uses 54mm unconvetioanl baskets have an suggest? I would like to try one.
Thanks again


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## TRatcliffe (Jun 15, 2020)

Has anyone had much success using one of these solving or reducing channeling issues? Reluctant to throw more money at my gaggia classic trying to make it less frustrating.


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

@TRatcliffe I used one with my Elizabeth which worked well for me but I used it to keep the group head cleaner rather than because of channeling and I have one I can send you if you want it - it worked well 

Can I ask what grinder you have? I stopped using mine after upgrading my grinder

Neil


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## TRatcliffe (Jun 15, 2020)

Alfieboy said:


> @TRatcliffe I used one with my Elizabeth which worked well for me but I used it to keep the group head cleaner rather than because of channeling and I have one I can send you if you want it - it worked well
> 
> Can I ask what grinder you have? I stopped using mine after upgrading my grinder
> 
> Neil



Ahhh thanks for the offer but I was too impatient and ordered one already…

I’m have a Mazzer Royal and a mignon specialita so I don’t think it’s the grinder unless they’re both faulty.

The positioning of the holes on the classic mean that a stream of water bores holes in the puck which must negatively impact the 2nd half of the shot (shot speeds up). This is with stock screen, ims screen and both screens at the same time. Pucks are really disturbed and I don’t like it. I suspect part of the problem is the temperature dropping off through the shot because the boiler is so small. 

I’ll update when I’ve had a play with it and hopefully someone finds the information useful.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

TRatcliffe said:


> Has anyone had much success using one of these solving or reducing channeling issues? Reluctant to throw more money at my gaggia classic trying to make it less frustrating.


Yes its certainly worked for me.. to the extent its become a permanent part of my work flow


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## TRatcliffe (Jun 15, 2020)

16.5g dose, Gaggia Classic with Mazzer Royal.

1.7mm thick cheap multi mesh type screen from Amazon.

first attempt, dramatic improvement in the cup. No channeling, less time to first drips but slower flow at the end of the shot. Probably have to grind a bit finer than usual

I think the resistance provided by the screen Mimics a low pressure pre infusion in a way, ramps up to pressure more slowly (which is why you have to grind finer) and the more even and steady distribution of water doesn’t damage the puck as much which slows the flow and increases extraction on the 2nd half of the shot.

With this in mind, I would hazard a guess that these screens would be better for sbdu machines without pre infusion and with poor water dispersion, but for e61, flow profilers and levers it might mess things up if they already slowly ramp up to pressure and have good water distribution?


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