# Graef CM95 grinder - first impressions and review



## MrShades

As you may have noticed from other posts of mine on here, I've recently acquired a Gaggia Classic and have been looking for a suitable grinder to pair with it. I'd narrowed it down to two relatively low-cost options, the Sage Smart Grinder (ideally the newer "Pro" BCG820 with dose timer and adjustable upper burr carrier) or a Graef of some description.

Both seem to offer similar grind performance from a very similar (around 38mm conical) burr set and what looks like largely similar construction. The Sage is £199, and the list price of the Graef's is between £150 and £250ish, depending on model - BUT they seem to crop up on eBay at bargain prices (unlike the BCG820).

So - when faced with a nice chrome Graef CM95 on eBay, with timed on-demand dosing, unused and essentially 'as new' for about half the full retail price, I jumped at the chance and bought it.

I've never seen or used a Sage BCG820, so can't comment on it further, but if anyone wants me to (and can supply one) then I'm willing (and would actually quite like) to compare the Graef and Sage further.

Anyway, it arrived yesterday and was unpacked and sat next to the Gaggia. It's small and light - certainly compared with any other serious grinder that I've owned, but looks very nice and matches the Gaggia nicely.









Obviously, before I did any serious grinding with it I was eager to tear it to pieces and see what was what.

The hopper has a good interlock on it, and the gate (to stop the beans coming out) has a nice positve action when you close it - and when it's closed it's properly closed (unlike my K10 Fresh gate, which is crap compared with the rest of the machine). So the hopper rotates and pops off.









The grind adjustment collar has 1-25 stepped adjustment settings across a fairly small arc of the rotation (some of the other Graef models offer 40 steps, but it appears that Graef have simply widened the scale so that it goes further "fine" and further "coarse" rather than making the steps any smaller - infact the steps appear to be identical). Once rotated to "fully coarse" you can press the lock-release button at the back and continue to rotate the collar until two arrows (one on the base and one on the collar) are aligned, and at that point the grind adjustment collar complete with upper burrs just pulls straight off. Exposing the lower burr - and allowing the upper burr to be lifted out (using the little handle). Simples.

















Other Graef models (other than the 90/95 and 800) have a non-adjustable upper burr carrier (much like the Sage Smart Grinder) and you need to shim the lower burr in order to adjust the grind range into the fine espresso / turkish settings. The CM95 (along with the 90 and 800) have an adjustable upper burr carrier - very similar if not identical to the Sage Smart Grinder Pro. This allows for 'macro' adjustment of the grind through rotation of the upper burr carrier, and then micro adjustment with the grind adjustment collar.

Note: I tried rotating it a stop or two finer - and got what felt like talc out of the machine, slowly. The standard grind setting for the upper burrs will still go fine enough on the normal collar adjustment to choke the Gaggia Classic.









The entire burr set looks very similar, from what I can tell, to the Sage Smart Grinder Pro.

More in the next part...


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## MrShades

The lower burr, with upper sweeper arm (a bent bit of metal) can be removed by unscrewing the nut on top of it - clockwise (the opposite direction to normal, like most burr mountings) and then removing the lock washer, sweeper arm and then the lower burr just pulls straight off.

There's a mounting pin in the bottom of the lower burr mount, and a hole in the underside of the lower burr, so make sure they're aligned and the lower burr is located if you strip it down.

Once the lower burr is removed there are then four cross-head screws (you can almost see the indents for all of them in the pictures above) on the upper plastic cover, that covers the motor, grind chamber and exit chute - and also houses the buttons in the front part of it. It pulls up quite easily once the burr is off and the screws are undone.

The only thing of real interest at this point under there is the grind exit chute, which has a plastic cover to it - that pops off. Again, in the CM90/95 and 800 Graef have carefully positioned a flxible metallic flap (it's about as flimsy as a piece of metallic wrapping paper!) in the exit path. The spare part for this cover is called an "Antistatic cover" so I can only assume that the metallic flap counters some of the static generated.... and I wanted to check if this CM95 had one, and it does. Whether it's good or bad, who knows at this stage - I may try to find one without the flap, as it doesn't appear an easy job to remove/replace one - if possible at all).

The control buttons are in the cover as well, and the control PCB and electronics are under the cover on the right hand side, loosely mounted (dropped in there) vertically. Putting it all back together is a simple process and the reverse of the above.

To fit the upper burr carrier, the grind adjustment collar is dropped on to the top of the grinder and then the upper burrs are located in place. Rotating the grind adjustment collar away from the >

There's a removable catch-plate on the front of the machine, which just pulls straight off - and that has a rubber mat within it, that's also removable.

Graef ship the grinder with two portfilter holders, large and small, with the large suited to 58mm and is the one shown in the pictures. They also supply a ground coffee canister and a small cleaning brush.









Before I started grinding, and whilst it was all new - I thought I'd try to take a quick photo "up its bottom" so to speak... and see what was inside the exit chute. It looks pretty smooth and whilst I know the metallic flap is around the corner at the top (you can reach it with a finger) there doesn't seem to be much else in there to cause problems.









So, grinding....

It has three buttons on the top of it - one shot, Programme, and double shot. The two 'shot' buttons are timed, and when the unit is in "auto" mode, pressing one of the buttons runs the motor for the set time. Factory settings are 12s and 20s respectively.

















To programme the timed buttons, it's a bit of a pain (but I figured that I virtually never touch the timer on my K10F so once roughly set it should be OK - if it's consistent!)... Pressing the P button for 1s causes the lights to flash once, and the two shot buttons to dim in brightness. Pressing one of them then starts the grinder.... and when you press the button again it records the time it's been running for and saves it as the timer for that button.

Out of the box, and with "one shot" still set to 12s I ran a few tests on an espresso grind setting.

The output weights of the shots, on grind setting 6 for 12s, were:

12.2g, 12.1g, 11.4g, 11.0g, 11.0g, 11.8g, 11.6g, 11.1g, 12.2g, 12.3g, 11.2g, 11.5g, 11.6g...

...and at this point it started to go a bit odd. I'd ground around 20 double shots literally one after the other (perhaps 10s between them), and the grinds were coming out "warm" at this point. Whilst the machine didn't overheat or stop working, the subsequent grind weights started dropping dramatically... 10.6g, 9.9g, 7.9g, 9.2g, 5.5g. I took that as a hint that it was all a little warm, and left it to cool down for a while. Not a true test, as no-one would grind 20 shots within the space of a few minutes on one of these.

Once it had cooled for a short while I thought I'd try a few grinds at a coarser setting, to see how it went. So - rathern than '6' for espresso, I went to '15' - which was much quicker and probably around what I'd use in an Aeropress:









That dosed, again on "one shot" (12s) - 21.2g, 21.7g, 23.4g, 22.9g, 22.9g, 24.1g. It may have been more consistent had I left it to cool down properly, rather than the 5 mins that I gave it.

Anyway - I've played with it for a while now and have it roughly set to deliver around 17g in about 16s on "one shot" and 20g in 19s on "two shots".

More in the next part....


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## MrShades

After putting a kilo or two through it, I figure that the burrs are probably "not new" any more - not fully seasoned, but starting to bed in... so a proper pour or two is probably required.

Having it set to grind setting 6 again, and using my "two shot" setting of around 20g in 19s - I ground 19.6g into a double basket (it's actually the standard double basket that came with my Duetto rather than a VST or anything - but that reminds me, I must get an 18g VST for it).









The espresso grounds at this point are something like this:









As well as all of the other bits'n'bobs, Graef also supply two dosing cones for the portafilters - again large and small. The large fits a standard 58mm basket and stops any stray grounds going anywhere - works well. So the picture above shows the ground coffee once I'd settled the grind with a couple of taps, and then removed the cone.

Tamping and whacking it into the Gaggia, the pour looked good:









... and resulted in 34.3g in 28s. Not bad at all.









Anyway, the conclusion:

For what I wanted it for, on-demand grinding for espresso with a Gaggia Classic occasionally - it seems to be doing a great job. Whether the timed dosing can produce reasonable results with minimal fuss we shall see, but it's probably less accurate than the timed dosing on my K10F - but still very usable.

Being conical, and with the flappy bit, there does seem to be a reasonable amount of retention - probably (like my K10 again) around a double-shot - so it's not the next shot that sees the grind adjustment, it's the one after. Again, not a problem as I'll be using the same beans/roast day-in, day-out, and with minimal use so don't mind the odd purge.

I'm generally very happy with it as a grinder, and when you look at the eBay pricing of them it really is a bargain.


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## c_squared

Very thorough reviewing here Mr shades...good work. It's a shame I bought that bottomless pf from you, it would be interesting to see a naked pour. Before I bought my grinder I was looking at these as a possible first grinder to match with my classic so I am enjoying the review.


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## Dylan

Great review of one of the cheaper grinders, they aren't common enough!

What have the shots tasted like so far? Do you have experience of the other grinders in this price bracket to compare to?


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## MrShades

Thanks c_squared and D_Evans - I looked for info on the Graef range and didn't find much at all, so just putting out all the info that I sought before buying one.

It is a shame you bought my Gaggia naked PF, cus I could use it again now! Damn.. ;-)

Shots are tasting very good actually - not as good as shots via the K10F but very good. Once the grind was right, pretty tight with a nice slow pour, the espresso is what I was hoping for - very drinkable.

The obvious competition for these Graefs at full RRP is the Sage, and I've no experience of one - but am eager to see if they are better, v similar or worse.

At the price I got this one there's nothing that would touch it - other than a similarly priced Sage if you could find one new on eBay!

If paying full RRP of circa £200 I'd probably purchase a used commercial machine instead... Mazzer SJ or similar, as I've owned an SJ before and the build quality and robustness is just in another league. The Graef's motor sounds like it's working, a Mazzer just gets on with it and crunches beans with zero effort.


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## Dylan

If these are regularly S/H on ebay they sound like a great option for the entry-level setup.


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## coffeechap

First time I posted on the grief I thought it was a really capable grinder for less than 100 which is what you can get them for and easily match of the mc2.


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## MrShades

D_Evans said:


> If these are regularly S/H on ebay they sound like a great option for the entry-level setup.


They seem to be cropping up on eBay NEW at those prices, not 2nd hand, but usually scruffy box or slight scratches (mine supposedly has some light scratches but I can't find them).


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## MrShades

Quick update:

I've been quite surprised this morning. Turned the Graef on and ground a dose, weighing it at 17.5g

A few minutes later I ground another.... 17.5g again (mild surprise at this point).

A few minutes later, another... and tentatively weighed it..... 17.5g (quite shocked now).

This was with the grinder cold, having been off all night, and grinding for about 16s on my espresso grind (6 currently).

My K10F, for comparison, is also set to dose circa 17.5g - which it does in 3.4s


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## Mrboots2u

Would you be comfortable talking it apart and seeing what's retained in the grind chamber exit path ( there will be some I suspect )


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## MrShades

Yes, no problem Bootsy - I've had it apart to that level when new so don't see a problem doing it again!

Personally I'd be surprised if there wasn't quite a lot packed in there... we shall see. Will report back, hopefully with more photos.


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## Mrboots2u

MrShades said:


> Yes, no problem Bootsy - I've had it apart to that level when new so don't see a problem doing it again!
> 
> Personally I'd be surprised if there wasn't quite a lot packed in there... we shall see. Will report back, hopefully with more photos.


Excellent , clean it out , weight wants in there

Blast a shot through see what's retained

Plus if it becomes a good entry level go to grinder then having some pics and clips of now to clean it would be really helpful


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## MrShades

Will have a play later. Will try single dosing, weighing in and out once clean as well.


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## MrShades

You may regret asking for it Bootsy - but here it comes...


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## froggystyle

Please be zero retention!!


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## MrShades

OK - the next installment... disassembly and cleaning inside the grinder.

Removing the hopper is a simple case of closing the 'bean gate' with a positive click, and rotating the hopper counter-clockwise slightly. It's located on the grind adjustment collar, so good practice to hold the collar with the other hand if you want to retain your current grind setting.

With the hopper removed there's beans and part-beans above the burr set:









Not that it means very much, but I got as many of the whole/part beans out from above the burr set as I could (with a teaspoon) and weighed them: 12.3g. These are essentially still "in the hopper" so the amount here is largely irrelevant.

Once scooped out, the burrs are visible:









...and following the standard upper-burr removal procedure described in the manual, you rotate the grind adjustment collar to "fully coarse" and then depress the lock release button on the rear of the motor body, to enable you to rotate the adjustment collar further and then lift it upwards once the two arrows (one on the motor body, the other on the collar) are aligned:

















Flipping the grind adjustment collar upside down typically causes the upper burr to drop out, as can be seen:









You then set about cleaning the upper burr with the small brush supplied with the grinder and a piece of kitchen towel...


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## jeebsy

froggystyle said:


> Please be zero retention!!


4 grams i'm guessing


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## MrShades

The small brush supplied is pretty soft, but useful for getting grinds out from the burr teeth. The rim of ground coffee under the rim of the burrs required a piece of kitchen towel and a light rubbing:









But after cleaning it came up as good as new (which is a good job, as I've only had it for 48hrs and put about 3kg of beans through it!):









For the sake of completeness I carefully collected all of the coffee dust and particles that I cleaned from the upper burr and weighed them at 0.2g.

Now, to continue the disassembly. I choose to lock the lower burr with a wooden spoon against the burr, enabling a 10mm socket on the top nut to be rotated clockwise (the opposite way to normal) to remove it.









...and then once undone, remove the nut, lock washer and stirring arm (or whatever it's properly called) and the lower burr lifts straight off:

















I then cleaned the lower burr with the same brush and kitchen towel technique, collecting the dust that came off it - weighing at 0.0g (there was almost nothing but light coffee dust).

continued...


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## MrShades

With the burrs clean, a quick shot them against a ruler:









Now the trickier part... To start with I tipped the grinder upside down and tipped out everything that would come out onto a piece of paper:









Appreciating that some of this was from within the burrs or even above them, and some of it was ground coffee from within the lower part of the burrs or from underneath them - I decided to roughly sieve this, to separate anything that was reasonably obviously "in or above" the burrs.

This gave me 1.4g of coarse particles - whole and part beans mainly, and 1.0g of finer ground coffee:

















With the burrs out and the bulk of the loose grinds out, it's a simple case of removing the four cross-head screws that hold the motor body cover in place:









continued...


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## MrShades

With the screws out, this cover can be lifted up. It's located on plastic tabs at the end nearest the buttons, but lifts up easily if you simply hold it by the burrs and lift:









Once released it's best to lift it from the front, as there are fairly tight wires at the rear that make complete removal of it difficult. Here you can see under the cover, but there's obviously a further small black cover over the main grind exit chute:









Pulling up the flat end of the grind exit chute cover (nearest the burrs) pops it off. It's this piece that contains the flexible metallic 'antistatic' flap - that I'm sure improves the static situation, but as can be seen is the main problem when it comes to retention:

















Putting a piece of paper under the grind exit chute, in order to catch everything, I started sweeping the chamber and exit chute clean. By holding the sweepers from above it's possible to slowly rotate the burr mount and motor, and this helps in the cleaning process as the sweeper arms appear to do a reasonably good job:









continued...


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## MrShades

Once thoroughly swept out, and using a Dyson handheld for the very final last few bits of dust, you can reassemble by snapping the exit chute cover back in place first - being conscious of the need to locate the front, curved end first and the pushing down the flat end until it clicks back into place.









Continuing to then replace the motor and grind chamber cover:









and then the lower burr, being careful to locate the pin in the base with the hole in the burr. The sweeper arm then goes on first, followed by the lock washer and then finally the securing nut - again being sure to tighten it by rotating counter-clockwise, and again I used the wooden spoon to hold the (sharp) lower burr:









Dont replace the upper burrs yet, but instead locate the grind adjustment collar on top of the grinder - ensuring that the arrows on the base and collar are aligned. At this stage you can drop in the upper burrs and finally rotate the adjustment collar clockwise to lock them in place and set the grind.









It's then a simple job to replace the hopper - and there you have a clean grinder.

However, let's look at single dosing and retention now...


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## MrShades

To check retention, having seen from the retained grounds above that it should be something like 1.0g(below)+6.0g(chute/sweepers) I ran a quick test with this completely clean grinder and burr chamber:









18g in to the hopper:









...and then flicking the grinder to "on" (rather than "auto" for timed dosing) I ran the motor until ground coffee stopped exiting from the chute.

Weighing the output from a clean grinder showed:









So - there's 5.6g in there somewhere... and you can bet your life that it's all behind that metallic 'antistatic' flap - where we saw it compressed in the pictures above. If I could easily remove this, or had access to another cover without the flap then I'd try it again - as I suspect it would be MUCH better, as the sweepers seem to be doing a very good job.

However, I tried a further 18g dose. 17.0g out.

3rd 18g dose gave 18.1g out

4th 18g dose gave 17.9g out

It would be very interesting to perform the same test with the different exit chute cover, as I suspect retention would be much closer to zero.

Anyway - that's it for now.

(I've fixed all the photos now, so they should all be in the correct orientation.)


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## Mrboots2u

Brilliant stuff cheers !!


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## MrShades

Well...

Not one to ignore a very obvious challenge - so I've stripped it down again, and cleaned it all out completely.

Once the grind exit chute cover is removed, it's fairly obvious (if you take the time to look at it properly!) that the 'antistatic' metallic flap can be removed and replaced quite easily:

















If you look at the first shot, above, you'll see that there are two little black tabs sticking out of the top of the cover. These are what's holding the (roughly oblong) piece of plastic in place, that can be seen in the lower picture. With a flat-blade screwdriver you can just push one of the tabs towards the other, and fowards at the same time (quite hard, as it's pretty tight fitting) and it literally pings off.

The metallic flap then just falls off:









..and you can snap the piece of plastic back in to smooth the holes left in the cover.









Continued...


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## MrShades

Now then, with the cover back in place and the motor cover replaced and screwed down - it looks 'interesting'...

You can see the motor spindle when looking up the exit chute:









and clear fresh air when looking from the grind chamber down towards the exit nozzle:









Hmmm.... this looks promising for a nice clear exit path, downward sloping and pretty direct and smooth..... but - that "antistatic" flap.... was it really helping with static and would that be a problem?

So, let's put it all back together and grab some beans:









18g going in!

Again, straight into an empty hopper and running the motor until nothing more comes out. Once the grinder sounded like it was running clear of any beans and there was no obvious grounds exiting the chute, I tapped the top of the grinder at the back and the last remaining 'bits' came out.

However...









...as with all of the other weight tests, I'd been grinding into a small plastic beaker (conveniently about 65mm wide in the middle, so it fits in the holder nicely). This beaker looked like it had been spray painted with ground coffee, and the exit nozzle itself was similarly 'splattered' with coffee grounds.

Static was very obviously a big issue without the metallic flappy thing in place. Just watching the ground coffee exiting the chute and it was obviously flying around... nothing like what it had done before, when it came out quite neatly with zero apparent static.

Due to the time that I'd taken (a) being amazed at the static, and (b) tapping the beaker to get the grinds off the side, running my finger round the outside of the exit nozzle, and © tapping the back of the grinder to get any final bits that I could - my digital scales had turned off . So, I had to carefully transfer the grounds from the one cup to another, that I'd tared again, and I made pretty sure that every last piece of dust came out of the original beaker.

I weighed the ground coffee.... 18g in and... 17.8g out. So - there's 0.2g in there somewhere.










continued...


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## MrShades

With the mess that the lack of the antistatic screen made, I wanted to put it back - so I stripped it down yet again:









Burrs and grind chamber looking pretty clean - and the sweepers do appear to be doing a pretty good job as there's not much at all in the grind chamer that's visible at this point. So - let's look deeper:









There she blows! With the cover off you can see a small collection of grinds at the very top of the exit chute... out of reach of the sweepers but not on the downward slope enough to fall out. Oh well, I guess if I'd actually tipped thr grinder forward and given it a heart pat on the back it would probably have spat that out as well.

So - without the metallic flap, you can easily run with 0.2g retention - but it splatters coffee everywhere, and if I'd been trying to get it into a basket/portafilter I have no idea what the catch tray and work surface beyond it would have looked like!

Part of me wants to try other antistatic solutions - perhaps a Mazzer-esque grid of wire or something. Because of where the flap is, there's force behind it from the sweepers that will eventually push coffee through - and that's what seems to happen, and in the process there's zero static in the grinds that do eventually exit. What would happen if a simple three wire x three wire grid of fuse wire was in the downward slope of the exit funnel...???? Not enough to stop the grinds exiting, but something metallic to remove the static????

Anyway - that's probably someone elses problem - as I'm going to grind on-demand with a hopper of beans, and keep the metallic flap.


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## truecksuk

some fab espresso mugs... mmm


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## Dylan

Fantastic tear down and guide MrShades, can imagine it will be very useful to others.

This thread should maybe be in the grinders section however!

Does the metal flap contact ground through that little hole above where it is mounted?

Worth trying other anti-static solutions like spraying the beans, and grinding into a metal container touching earth.


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## Dylan

whoops....

13 chars


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## PeterF

Brilliant review, loved it!


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## MrShades

Dylan said:


> Fantastic tear down and guide MrShades, can imagine it will be very useful to others.
> 
> This thread should maybe be in the grinders section however!
> 
> Does the metal flap contact ground through that little hole above where it is mounted?
> 
> Worth trying other anti-static solutions like spraying the beans, and grinding into a metal container touching earth.


No, metal flap isn't connected to anything conductive - it's mounted in plastic.

Curious isn't it!


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## Dylan

MrShades said:


> No, metal flap isn't connected to anything conductive - it's mounted in plastic.
> 
> Curious isn't it!


I saw its mounted in plastic, but that the metal is visible through a small hole in the top, and that the circuit board is directly above this, this definitely doesnt have a connector that touches the metal?

Grounding definitely helps static, and as the flap is metal is would indeed be very curious if it wasn't grounded.


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## MrShades

Yeah, I see what you're saying and would explain the visible metal - but I cant remember and don't have the grinder here to take another look. I agree that it would seem logical that it was grounded if it was to make any difference to the static (and it does).


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## jackk

MrShades said:


> Yeah, I see what you're saying and would explain the visible metal - but I cant remember and don't have the grinder here to take another look. I agree that it would seem logical that it was grounded if it was to make any difference to the static (and it does).


Hi MrShades, I have a quick and probably noobish question. When you adjust the grind size, do you have to "flush" much coffee out of it before getting the finer/coarser grind. Just asking as I'm curious how easy it is to alternate between espresso and pour over, and how much waste is involved


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## MrShades

Not too sure if you'd get espresso and pour over within the same band of 25 stepped adjustments (it may need. Turn of the top burr carrier in order to adjust the macro range - before the adjustment collar then does 25 micro steps).

Either way , it wouldn't be the first grind after adjustment - it'd need at least a double shot purge before the different grind came through.


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## bronc

When I had an Iberital MC2 I read a tip from a thread about the HG One that adding a drop or two of water to the beans before grinding solves most of the static issues. I tried it and it really helped. I usually added a few drops to my beans after I had weighted them and swirled the cup to distribute the water evenly.


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## jackk

MrShades said:


> Not too sure if you'd get espresso and pour over within the same band of 25 stepped adjustments (it may need. Turn of the top burr carrier in order to adjust the macro range - before the adjustment collar then does 25 micro steps).
> 
> Either way , it wouldn't be the first grind after adjustment - it'd need at least a double shot purge before the different grind came through.


Thanks MrShades. Another quick question. With this machine, do you tend to dispose a double shot each time when using it? I'm assuming grinds from the previous run will always come out first. If so, is this also a double shot, the same as when adjusting grind?


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## MrShades

I just use it - much as I do with my K10F... And yes every bit of coffee that comes out of it (unless adjusting the grind for a new bean etc).

First thing in the morning I'll usually offer to make someone else in my office a coffee first- especially if it's been sat unused for a few days (I'm not in my office every day - and the Graef is my office machine) - but it's drinkable coffee, just not the best!

I adopt the same strategy with the K10Fresh that I have at home - but it gets used MUCH more (around 1kg a week)


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## jackk

MrShades said:


> I just use it - much as I do with my K10F... And yes every bit of coffee that comes out of it (unless adjusting the grind for a new bean etc).
> 
> First thing in the morning I'll usually offer to make someone else in my office a coffee first- especially if it's been sat unused for a few days (I'm not in my office every day - and the Graef is my office machine) - but it's drinkable coffee, just not the best!
> 
> I adopt the same strategy with the K10Fresh that I have at home - but it gets used MUCH more (around 1kg a week)


So, to be clear, the first dose is always going to be "yesterdays grind"? Is this what the 5.6g relates to? Sorry for the noobish questions, I just don't know a lot about grinders and am curious how your retention figures affect day to day usage.









It will probably become more clear when I open it tomorrow.


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## MrShades

Yes, you're basically correct


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## jackk

MrShades said:


> Yes, you're basically correct


Hi MrShades, I have the grind at 3/4 and it's still quite coarse. Any ideas?


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## MrShades

Yes, remove the upper burrs and turn the macro adjustment


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## jackk

MrShades said:


> Yes, remove the upper burrs and turn the macro adjustment


Have the burrs out, not sure how to macro adjust. Any chance you can take a photo of how yours are set or explain it to me?


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## MrShades

Look in my first post on this thread - the upper burr carrier has two screws and "finer coarser" on it. You remove the two small screws, turn one or two notches finer and then put the screws back in and refit the burrs.

Do you have a 95 or 800 - or another Graef model?


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## jackk

MrShades said:


> Look in my first post on this thread - the upper burr carrier has two screws and "finer coarser" on it. You remove the two small screws, turn one or two notches finer and then put the screws back in and refit the burrs.
> 
> Do you have a 95 or 800 - or another Graef model?


Thank you! It's the 95. I shall have a crack at it later. But the two screws have to be fully removed?


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## MrShades

Yes - I think so; I don't think you an rotate it otherwise.

My CM95 is in my office and not at home with me so difficult for me to do anything other than try to remember!


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## knightsfield

On my 800 both screws need to be fully removed I assume on the 95 it's the same


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## jackk

I'll check it out later







Thanks so much guys


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## jackk

knightsfield said:


> On my 800 both screws need to be fully removed I assume on the 95 it's the same


I took them out and rotated it about two increments, should this have a significant difference?


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## jackk

Did about 3-4 more now, little bit finer. Shall adjust more. Is this normal?


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## MrShades

Hmmmm... I think I went 2 or 3 - so within the realms of reasonable I guess... Though I would think that s total of 6 or 7 macro adjustments is probably too much.

Just make sure that the upper burr is properly seated when you put it back in.

If you go too far (too fine) then the motor spins and virtually nothing (if not nothing at all) comes out.


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## jackk

MrShades said:


> Hmmmm... I think I went 2 or 3 - so within the realms of reasonable I guess... Though I would think that s total of 6 or 7 macro adjustments is probably too much.
> 
> Just make sure that the upper burr is properly seated when you put it back in.
> 
> If you go too far (too fine) then the motor spins and virtually nothing (if not nothing at all) comes out.


Yeah I think something is up. Wasting so much coffee


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## jackk

I give up for today


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## jackk

Sorted


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## MrShades

What did you do?


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## jackk

MrShades said:


> What did you do?


Put the macro setting back to what I think was the default (one of the screws is at the same position as the arrow of "fine coarse"

Put it on fully coarse, was getting quite a fine grind but still a little coarse. Just dialed it in from there, however I just realised I made it more coarser last night by a couple of clicks and can't remember how many. I thought it was choking my classic, but turns out I had the steam switch on. I think it was at 15 when it was giving me proper timed shots.


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## hubrad

If it helps at all, I have the 'old' model CM80, which is very manual adjustment.. washers under the lower burr. About 2 1/2 of the supplied washers (i.e. one of the originals plus a mid-thickness one from the garage) did the trick to get the burrs just starting to clash at about 1 or 2. Now I get good espresso results with Limini Cameroon at about 9 or 10 depending which week I'm on. Flip all the way round to 30 - the coarsest setting - and the little cafetiere I keep at work works nicely. I found a particular glass, possibly a sherry one, which gives a fairly consistent double espresso shot. Only one glass goes in the hopper at a time, so this way I completely empty the coffee (make sure you give it a good shake!) so no retention of stale grounds unless there's an odd flat step inside there.

I have an Anfim project on the go, but this Graef means there's no stress to finish; terrible move! :-D

There are undoubtedly better grinders out there, but I have no regrets at having bought the Graef a couple of years back.


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## jackk

hubrad said:


> If it helps at all, I have the 'old' model CM80, which is very manual adjustment.. washers under the lower burr. About 2 1/2 of the supplied washers (i.e. one of the originals plus a mid-thickness one from the garage) did the trick to get the burrs just starting to clash at about 1 or 2. Now I get good espresso results with Limini Cameroon at about 9 or 10 depending which week I'm on. Flip all the way round to 30 - the coarsest setting - and the little cafetiere I keep at work works nicely. I found a particular glass, possibly a sherry one, which gives a fairly consistent double espresso shot. Only one glass goes in the hopper at a time, so this way I completely empty the coffee (make sure you give it a good shake!) so no retention of stale grounds unless there's an odd flat step inside there.
> 
> I have an Anfim project on the go, but this Graef means there's no stress to finish; terrible move! :-D
> 
> There are undoubtedly better grinders out there, but I have no regrets at having bought the Graef a couple of years back.


Hi hubrad, I'm starting to get the hang of it. 15 coarseness works well for me, anything lower seems to choke my classic. I think my macro adjustment is one step from default. You're right about giving it a bit of a knock/shake to get the old grinds


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## Scotford

If it helps, Limini Cameroon can take a really tight grind to squeeze the life out of it.


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## hubrad

Cheers, Scotford , I'm onto my 4th kilo now, I think. Any finer than i have it and it chokes.

Marvellous blend, my favourite so far.


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## craigdwilliams

hubrad said:


> If it helps at all, I have the 'old' model CM80, which is very manual adjustment...


Hey Hubrad, how is your grinds retention/vs static on the CM80?

I have an early Sunbeam EM0480 which is the same machine, but they didn't have the extra spout when I bought mine.

Really enjoyed your review MrShades! I was initially thinking the 95 could be worth looking at for me as an upgrade and solution to my static issues, but it seems it's essentially the same as the CM80 with the different chute assembly/static flap and programmable grind. I tend to only fill the hopper with what I'm about to grind so I don't think the extra electronics are what I need. Then after reading everything I thought it might be worth looking into an anti static mod like the 95, but not sure if I could deal with that much retention of ground coffee!


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## djedga

Been reviewing this thread with interest. About to take first step into the grinding world!

Like the look of the graef but can anyone tell me if I've correctly identified the differences between the models??

CM702 - basic entry level plastic but same burr set

CM80 - old model fine adjustment via adding washers on bottom burr

CM81 - newer model fine adjustment via screws on top burr

All below are programmable with fine adjustment on top burr

CM90 - older model?

CM800 - replaces CM80 and CM81 adds programmable timer and dosing

CM95 - Same as 800 but Chrome?

?? Very confusing lack of real info..


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## djedga

Should have read the OP properly!

"The CM95 (along with the 90 and 800) have an adjustable upper burr carrier"


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## djedga

Just grabbed one for £130 brand new from Harts of Stur (CM95). Not as good as the £75 deal last year but still pretty happy at that price!

Hadn't heard of the shop but seems to be well regarded in general. It was, alas, the last one on clearance otherwise I'd have posted it in the deals section...

Now to get some beans!


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## StuartS

I bought my Classic from them 2 years ago for the bargain price of £149 with a couple of free espresso cups. Proper bargain!


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## djedga

All arrived ok so will be dialling it in tomorrow!


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## cbean

Great review Mr Shades and very informative, bought the CM800 after reading this thread, had it a couple of days now and very pleased with it.


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## athan

Hello,considering upgrade from porlex to graef cm 800(espresso and drip use),is it worth it in terms of cup quality? My english is weak!


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## Hairy_Hogg

Just ordered one from Germany, worked out at £107.95 delivered including all currency fees.


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## yardbent

Hairy_Hogg said:


> Just ordered one from Germany, worked out at £109.75 delivered including all currency fees.


sounds good

would be interested in your thoughts on delivery, packing, courier, customs(?), setup etc

is it rated 220V or 240V


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## Hairy_Hogg

230v it seems...









Ordered from Coffee Universe but via their website not ebay, currently has a 14% discount making it €129 plus shipping. I used a money transfer service (transferwise) so only had to pay £1 in currency fees so total of €140.49 cost me £107.95 with all the fees included


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## Fevmeister

yardbent said:


> sounds good
> 
> would be interested in your thoughts on delivery, packing, courier, customs(?), setup etc
> 
> is it rated 220V or 240V


No duty it's an eu country


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## Django57

Is this the company you bought your Graef from by chance? looks a good deal , also you can pay with PayPal .

http://www.computeruniverse.net/en/products/90509440/graef-cm-800.asp


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## Hairy_Hogg

Django57 said:


> Is this the company you bought your Graef from by chance? looks a good deal , also you can pay with PayPal .
> 
> http://www.computeruniverse.net/en/products/90509440/graef-cm-800.asp


Yes it was. I chose not to go via Paypal as I did some googling and it seems you can get stiffed on the currency conversion, they do not use optimum rates and there is a charge involved. As I would have been stiffed on currency + charge with my bank as well I choose the money service I mentioned above as they give market rate plus only cost me £1 in fees.

Typically, I only bought this as I was outbid on an ebay auction for different grinder that was very competitively priced and that took it outside my upper limit. The other bidder withdrew their bid about an hour ago so I am now the highest bidder again so I may need to cancel the order for the Graef or move it on straight away!


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## Django57

Thanks Hairy_Hogg appreciate getting back so quick . Not ready to buy just yet but the more info i can get on grinders hopefully will help me choose wisely.


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## Hairy_Hogg

Mine just arrived from Germany


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## jakebyrne

How are you guys getting on with this grinder? I'm very tempted to order one.

Is it just a case of switching the plug to a UK model?


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## Jumbo Ratty

Hairy_Hogg said:


> Typically, I only bought this as I was outbid on an ebay auction for different grinder that was very competitively priced and that took it outside my upper limit. The other bidder withdrew their bid about an hour ago so I am now the highest bidder again so I may need to cancel the order for the Graef or move it on straight away!


I would refuse to pay.

Im a very skeptical \ cynical person by nature and would think to myself the bid was upped by a friend of the seller who was trying to push the price up.


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## Dylan

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I would refuse to pay.
> 
> Im a very skeptical \ cynical person by nature and would think to myself the bid was upped by a friend of the seller who was trying to push the price up.


Whilst possible, unless he upped his bid in response he is not out of pocket, and can retract his own bid if he wants to.


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## Hairy_Hogg

jakebyrne said:


> How are you guys getting on with this grinder? I'm very tempted to order one.
> 
> Is it just a case of switching the plug to a UK model?


I have only had a little play so far, it comes with a euro style plug so needs a cheap converter plug.


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## Django57

Be careful with the cheap converter plugs as i am nearly sure they don't earth the appliance just check especially if using in a kitchen .


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## Hairy_Hogg

Django57 said:


> Be careful with the cheap converter plugs as i am nearly sure they don't earth the appliance just check especially if using in a kitchen .


It is just a stop gap solution. I bought one of these off Ebay









but the Graef comes with a right angled plug so I have just bought one of these









It is fused so should make it kitchen safe.


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## Django57

The second photo looks like it has the correct prongs inside that earth the appliance i would go for that one , an alternative if you check with the supplier that it won't invalidate the guarantee is just to cut the EU plug off and change it for a UK plug but you would need to make sure before .


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## Hairy_Hogg

Hmm, on lowest setting I was getting 18g g of grinds to produce 40g of coffee in 18-20 secs which is too fast so I have taken in apart and moved it two notches towards fine and after reassembly I am getting boulders out now









ETA - Phew.... sorted it out


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## yardbent

@MrShades

thanks for the great informative analysis

i can not afford a CM95, but on the strength of your review, I have purchased a Graef CM800

cheers


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## jimbocz

Give us some details on the fix, I am struggling to dial in my greaf grinder


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## Hairy_Hogg

For me I had to remove the top burr set, remove the two screws and adjust 5 places in the fine direction.

Not resolved my problem totally as per this thread but I am not sure if that is a problem with the grind or the Gaggia at the moment


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## djedga

Hairy_Hogg said:


> For me I had to remove the top burr set, remove the two screws and adjust 5 places in the fine direction.
> 
> Not resolved my problem totally as per this thread but I am not sure if that is a problem with the grind or the Gaggia at the moment


In your pics it looks like you could still go much finer to me... on the CM 95 I didn't have to do anything other than adjust the top burr and the grind setting (I can't remember how many notches now but I think maybe 4 - *Edit on reflection I think it may have been 2 settings - I am grinding roughly around the "10" setting at the mo).

I plan to give the grinder a clean up at the weekend so I'll see if I can take some pics of the top burr for you. I'm grinding fine enough for 20-30 depending on bean age etc. and I could definitely go fine enough to choke my machine. A couple of things to consider:

Macro adjustment of top burr should be sufficient you shouldn't need a spacer washer. Can you adjust it a little further? You can always change it back later if you need.

Bean storage. If you leave it in the hopper you will have to adjust more as it ages (finer I seemed to find). I keep mine sealed in the bag in a cupboard now with a clip as it means less adjustment needed later.

How old is the grinder was it brand new? It apparently sometimes takes a bit of time for the burrs to run in (mine did maybe a kg or so of beans at least) I would say it only started coming into it's own after a few months when it became very consistent...

Just a few thoughts really it may be a little different on the 800 though.


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## Hairy_Hogg

@djedga - It is brand new. I managed to get it pretty fine now and I think the problem is more to do with me knowing how to use the Gaggia properly now...

Will season it with some stale beans as my next task.


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## Hairy_Hogg

Decided to attempt to return the grinder as it is just winding me up now, starts and stops of its own accord in auto mode. Let's see how good the Germans are at refunds...

Think I will throw a few more quid at a new grinder when I get my money back.


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## jlarkin

Germany had stronger laws around online sales and what needed to be in place etc than UK, at least they did a couple of years ago. So it's pretty likely in my mind that they'll be good.

Good idea, grinder is crucial


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## Hairy_Hogg

Emailed them and they sent me a label to stick on it straight away, just need to drop off at the PO. Very impressed with their service


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## Hairy_Hogg

yardbent said:


> @MrShades
> 
> thanks for the great informative analysis
> 
> i can not afford a CM95, but on the strength of your review, I have purchased a Graef CM800
> 
> cheers


Hey @yardbent - how you getting on with your Graef. I sent mine back in the end as per the above (which I much admit was really easy with that German company and they even refunded the postage costs) and now have an MC2 from here which I found much easier to dial in (the Graef I found impossible). Just wondering if you are enjoying yours?


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## yardbent

Hairy_Hogg said:


> Hey @yardbent - how you getting on with your Graef. .............. and now have an MC2 from here which I found much easier to dial in (the Graef I found impossible). Just wondering if you are enjoying yours?


I'm surprised.?

took mine apart upon delivery - it was used - cleaned all residue and burrs [mint]

re-assembled leaving top burr carrier setting as it was

only took 3 adjustments to correct grind for Foundry Rocko Mountain beans....at step 15

then went down 6 steps with new beans from Coffee Compass Jampit

any more choked the Gaggia

hence I'm surprised cos my Graef 800 is working very well

good luck with the MC2....


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## Hairy_Hogg

Hopefully you did not get my old one







- I assume not as you managed to get it to work well...

MC2 is working well and is a great teething machine for me, will get used to it then suffer from upgraditis after 3 -6 months and probably look for a used Mignon.


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## jeebsy

yardbent said:


> I'm surprised.?
> 
> took mine apart upon delivery - it was used - cleaned all residue and burrs [mint]
> 
> re-assembled leaving top burr carrier setting as it was
> 
> only took 3 adjustments to correct grind for Foundry Rocko Mountain beans....at step 15
> 
> then went down 6 steps with new beans from Coffee Compass Jampit
> 
> any more choked the Gaggia
> 
> hence I'm surprised cos my Graef 800 is working very well
> 
> good luck with the MC2....


Did you buy my mates in the end?


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## Blue_Cafe

A fantastic thread.

And i am awaiting a CM800 myself so very interesting to read


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## potter985

Me too. Very instructive!!


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## Blue_Cafe

Blue_Cafe said:


> A fantastic thread.
> 
> And i am awaiting a CM800 myself so very interesting to read


 recieved.

Well, its well built for the money and is very "Germanic" in its execution.

I really like it on first use.


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## potter985

Sorry about the double post but i wonder if i ask for any help here

When handling for deep cleaning, rotation and face down the grinder CM 800, the pulser that activates grinding directly on the filter came out. Now it is completely loose although it works. I´d appreciate some advice

Thank you very much in advance!!


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