# New upgraded Lelit on the block - Elizabeth



## MediumRoastSteam

Looks like there's a better, upgraded version of the Lelit Elizabeth which will launch this month.

Even better, looks like @DavecUK reviewed it!

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2020/05/08/lelit-elizabeth/

Wondering if Bella Barista will stock it. In my opinion, this is a direct contender to the Sage Dual Boiler and the Profitec Pro 300.


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## cuprajake

Ive been watching his vids on these, they seem a well built machine, not much of a looker though imo


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## MediumRoastSteam

Some idea of price here:

MaraX: €1,090
Elizabeth: €1,040

https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/lelit.html


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## DavecUK

I thought Holy crap that's good, I initially thought, bet it's the old version not the one I had changes made on. However they say coming soon and I know stock goes out next week, well you saw the build line photos in the review.

I actually expected it to be closer to £1200 (pure guess) .. So a lot less than I thought. Perhaps MaraX won't be huge competition unless someone really wants an E61 and it goes on looks.

I suspect Elizabeth might be a really good seller as well.


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## DavecUK

Guys need your help because I've gone word blind. If you guys can proof read for me, I'd appreciate it. In case there's something I've missed or something is not right. You might see it refresh as I am going to get a coffee then come back and look for typos. Steam preinfusion is working very well for my Ethiopian!

I made a small maintenance sway that I will link to in the main review. Hopefully it will cover some key questions such as service boiler water refresh and also descaling.



  

Lelit Elizabeth (PL92T) Maintenance Tips

This is an extra to the review and a living document during the initial launch of the revised Elizabeth and are maintenance tips I'm gradually pulling together as I have time. 




Go to this Sway


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## Skizz

Thanks @DavecUK, been looking forward to hearing about this one. It was an interesting machine before and sounds like they've hit the mark with the latest tweaks.

I wonder if at some point they'll look at implementing onboard or even app-based profiling/logging on a machine like the Elizabeth. Do you get any sense that they're interested in this route or are they happy with where they are?


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## DavecUK

Skizz said:


> Thanks @DavecUK
> 
> I wonder if at some point they'll look at implementing onboard or even app-based profiling/logging on a machine like the Elizabeth. Do you get any sense that they're interested in this route or are they happy with where they are?


 I don't know to be honest. If I had to guess I'd say they are a company never satisfied and always looking to improve. So it's likely but as always, each machine needs to have it's technological and economical place in the range.

Sometimes to make something new you can only enhance the existing so far and it becomes easier to start again.


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## Apr1985

Be interesting to see what connections can be made to the LLC to see if information can be pulled.

Didnt seem to tricky on the MaraX but different kettle of fish


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## MediumRoastSteam

For those interested in this machine, does anyone have any opinions on the following:
- PTFE tubing; (instead of brass)
- steam knob and PF handle material: looks very cheap. 
- two hole steam tip: why not 3 or 4? Personally, I found it difficult to use a two hole steam tip, because it can point at different directions depending on the angle of the steam wand. 
- Lelit CC: do you feel it is too clever? How about being proprietary to Lelit? All good whilst it's made and the machine is being produced/continued and Lelit supports it... but what if the machine is discontinued?

Just trying to get to know your thoughts. It's a great machine, but a couple of the above points do make me think carefully before considering pulling the trigger.


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## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> For those interested in this machine, does anyone have any opinions on the following:
> 1. - PTFE tubing; (instead of brass)
> 2. - steam knob and PF handle material: looks very cheap.
> 3. - two hole steam tip: why not 3 or 4? Personally, I found it difficult to use a two hole steam tip, because it can point at different directions depending on the angle of the steam wand.
> 4. - Lelit CC: do you feel it is too clever? How about being proprietary to Lelit? All good whilst it's made and the machine is being produced/continued and Lelit supports it... but what if the machine is discontinued?
> 
> Just trying to get to know your thoughts. It's a great machine, but a couple of the above points do make me think carefully before considering pulling the trigger.


 1. Prefer it, asked for it on the Vesuvius, makes maintenance much easier, easy to remove and refit. If you ever need to remake an entire tube (unlikely), then you just buy a metre and cut it to length, If the Italians in the old days had had PTFE tubing, they would have probably used it. It's also used on many machines nowadays. I've given the same advice to people who wanted steel pipework on a Vesuvius. Steel looks super nice and may well last for ever... but if I'm doing maintenance give me PTFE every time. I especially like the pushfit connectors as well, they have worked well on various machines over the years and they are easiest of all to play around with..

2. Put a new knob on.....Long story about the knob, I'll tell you one day over a coffee.

3. Put a new handle on, portafilter is really heavy though, very nice weight. I use my Minima naked portafilter. The handle is part of the overall design.

3. It's a domestic machine many/most prosumer machines use 1 or 2 holes to help maintain pressure, the higher the pressure the better the steaming ("drier") and the milk produced.

4. LCC is made by Gicar, the programming is proprietary (as in all machines) Most of the industry uses Gicar control systems. I know because I took one apart and it's written on the rear label. There are 4 types of LCC a white/black and hi/low memory versions. It's used all over their range. On grinders, smaller machines, Bianca, Elizabeth etc.. Only the software is different on each. I can take the LCC out of the Bianca and reflash it for the Elizabeth, or vice versa. A* very few* authorised dealers may have the reflash ability, otherwise they can simply provide a replacement LCC. So even if the machine is ever discontinued (and that's unlikely as it's quite new), they will still be using the LCC in many other machines.

The code of your existing LCC can even be read back and reflashed onto a new unit if you want to keep the same software version, say where programming has accommodated a significant hardware change and your LCC had some other issue like damage to the front..


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## Apr1985

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/lelit-elizabeth-pl91t.html
£1099 seems sensibly priced.


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## DavecUK

Apr1985 said:


> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/lelit-elizabeth-pl91t.html
> £1099 seems sensibly priced.


 Yes, I wonder if that European link holds their price once they actually get stock...or how old that listing was. Much more in line with my expectations as I feel it sits higher than the MaraX.


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## Stanic

Great that they fitted the silent pump and I'm glad this came out after I've got the MaraX


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## MediumRoastSteam

Stanic said:


> Great that they fitted the silent pump and I'm glad this came out after I've got the MaraX


Well... they are different things right. The HX subtle cleverness of the MaraX gives it the edge over other HX machines.

The Elizabeth is an entry level dual boiler, and very, very clever.

It depends what you want really. For me, heat up time and being compact, as being able to manage temperature well for brew and temp (no SBDU) are my top requirements. There are about 3 machines capable of that: The Elizabeth, the P-300 and the Sage Dual Boiler.

I do love the simplicity of the MaraX. If I had the space and I could leave it on all day, it would be a no brainer.


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## DavecUK

Stanic said:


> Great that they fitted the silent pump and I'm glad this came out after I've got the MaraX


 Sorry...but It was a completely confidential project. It doesn't make the MaraX worse, it's still great at a great price and the Elizabeth looks won't be for everyone. It also costs more and it's a dual boiler.


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## Border_all

Stanic said:


> Great that they fitted the silent pump and I'm glad this came out after I've got the MaraX


 For appearances i think you have the nicer machine and at least it never complicated the process of choosing 👍


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## DavecUK

They are both great machines having them side by side showed me that.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Lelit come out with for 2021. I think by pushing the boundaries it keeps other manufacturers on their toes, and we all benefit.


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## Border_all

DavecUK said:


> They are both great machines having them side by side showed me that.
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing what Lelit come out with for 2021. I think by pushing the boundaries it keeps other manufacturers on their toes, and we all benefit.


 They are certainly innovative and the high sales from the lockdown should give then good funding

Mind i hope I won't be looking for a machine in 2021 😂😂


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## MediumRoastSteam

@DavecUK keeps casting doubts in my mind... Shall I wait until 2021 for the solenoid operated half e-61 group with recessive water tap MaraY? 😂


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## Border_all

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @DavecUK keeps casting doubts in my mind... Shall I wait until 2021 for the solenoid operated half e-61 group with recessive water tap MaraY? 😂


 I heard its going to be the MaraZ


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## DavecUK

The good thing about buying a nice machine....how much you enjoy it. The bad thing is the fun of the chase is over for a long time, unless you flip machines often and have severe upgraditis whatever you have.

My problem is I love using different machines as long as they are good and interesting. There's a lot of fun in taming a new machine, learning how to get the best out of it and of course, the different innovations manufacturers have...it means I'm always learning.


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## untoldex

@DavecUK what routine works well for back-to-back shots on such small boiler? Especially for higher brewing temperatures like 95C. How long do you need to wait between shots and if any warming flushes are needed?

And second question, does it work to brew and steam at the same time? Or brew heating element gets priority and steam becoming weaker?


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## DavecUK

untoldex said:


> @DaveC 1.what routine works well for back-to-back shots on such small boiler? Especially for higher brewing temperatures like 95C. How long do you need to wait between shots and if any warming flushes are needed?
> 
> 2. And second question, does it work to brew and steam at the same time? Or brew heating element gets priority and steam becoming weaker?


 1. Just make the shots one after another, it's not a problem. no flushes are needed and it's ready when you are

2. Yes and there is no problem with steam power. It also doesn't affect the pressure of steam preinfusion if you steam during the preinfusion phase.


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## Stanic

@DavecUK thanks for the review of the Elizabeth

I'd be really torn between this and MaraX but fortunately I'm not 😂


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## Apr1985

It does sound but of an ideal machine (other than its more than I ideally wanted to spend). But I think it will last longer than upgraditis and it seems like Lelit make them somewhat upgradable with the new components.

@MediumRoastSteam you get one and let me know what you think 😁


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## MediumRoastSteam

Apr1985 said:


> It does sound but of an ideal machine (other than its more than I ideally wanted to spend). But I think it will last longer than upgraditis and it seems like Lelit make them somewhat upgradable with the new components.
> 
> @MediumRoastSteam you get one and let me know what you think


Working on it, meaning:

- Convincing wife - who doesn't drink coffee - that Liz can come and live with us and it will be just fine. She (Liz) won't get any attention from me; 

- Thinking of selling the trusty old Pavoni and its accessories.

- explaining to the wife that the noise of a vibe pump is not much louder than pulling a lever.

- Planning a click and collect trip to BB - they are planning to offer that service soon. No, I do not trust curriers!

- Explain to my son why he can't have a new laptop this year.

I'll get there. Watch this space.


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## eamon

Thanks for the review. The "new normal" has me thinking about upgrading my coffee setup, and I like the look of lelit.

Are some of these improvements (quieter pump?) coming to the rest of the VIP line, e.g. the Victoria?

I'm a low volume user and will only make one (occasionally 2) cups at a time. Thinking this might be enough for my needs.

Thanks


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## MediumRoastSteam

eamon said:


> Thanks for the review. The "new normal" has me thinking about upgrading my coffee setup, and I like the look of lelit.
> Are some of these improvements (quieter pump?) coming to the rest of the VIP line, e.g. the Victoria?
> I'm a low volume user and will only make one (occasionally 2) cups at a time. Thinking this might be enough for my needs.
> Thanks


The Victoria is an interesting machine. In essence, the Elizabeth with one boiler. But, if you like milky drinks, I strongly advise you go for a dual boiler at least. The SBDU unit "will do", but having to heat up the boiler to steam temp, and then steam, is a pain, IMHO.


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## cuprajake

Alot cheaper too.

Is it an hx machine or more like a sage where your waiting a tad.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake said:


> Alot cheaper too.
> Is it an hx machine or more like a sage where your waiting a tad.


It's a SBDU (single boiler dual unit). One boiler, but the temp of the boiler operates at two bands: brew temp and steam temp. Like a Rancilio Silvia or a Gaggia Classic.


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## DavecUK

eamon said:


> Thanks for the review. The "new normal" has me thinking about upgrading my coffee setup, and I like the look of lelit.
> 
> Are some of these improvements (quieter pump?) coming to the rest of the VIP line, e.g. the Victoria?
> 
> I'm a low volume user and will only make one (occasionally 2) cups at a time. Thinking this might be enough for my needs.
> 
> Thanks


 I don't know I only got involved withe the Elizabeth and asked for changes. The Victoria I never got involved with or discussed with them. Not the level of machine I usually review.


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## -Mac

I think, barring a big lottery win, that this has just gone to the top of my list. Thanks for the details, Dave.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@DavecUK - I have two questions.

1) I could not see I'm the review. Does the Elizabeth comes with a kettle cord / cable like the MaraX?

2) you mention in the maintenance sway: "Use 16g of coffee, this seems to be a sweet spot with the Lelit baskets and the specific group used on the Elizabeth". Why is this the sweet spot for the specific group used on the Elizabeth?

Thanks!


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## DavecUK

1. Yes

2. I think the shower screen is a fraction lower, I just found for me 16g worked well. Of course larger doubles are available I was just using regular baskets usually intended for 14 to 16g that we often overload to 18g.


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## njlhyde

DavecUK said:


> 1. Yes
> 2. I think the shower screen is a fraction lower, I just found for me 16g worked well. Of course larger doubles are available I was just using regular baskets usually intended for 14 to 16g that we often overload to 18g.


Hi Dave

A quick question relating to basket and dosing.

I notice with some coffees that 18g "fills" (not tamped) my 18g VST basket nicely but the same weight with other beans comes a little short.

Is it better to obtain the 2:1 ratio only by grind on the latter or should I increase the dose weight as well?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK

njlhyde said:


> Hi Dave
> 
> A quick question relating to basket and dosing.
> 
> I notice with some coffees that 18g "fills" (not tamped) my 18g VST basket nicely but the same weight with other beans comes a little short.
> 
> Is it better to obtain the 2:1 ratio only by grind on the latter or should I increase the dose weight as well?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 It's never exact...for some higher density coffees I might fill baskets with 1g more than with lower density coffees....it doesn't matter what machine. Then I adjust the ratio to suit. I only do this though if the difference in volume is very marked....after tamping.

Also, some coffees grind up fluffier than others....don't know why, not bothered to think about it (mind too busy, not enough CPU time)...but it does happen for sure.


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## Aamz23

So this is better than a mara x?

Wheres the link to buy?!


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## DavecUK

Aamz23 said:


> So this is better than a mara x?
> 
> Wheres the link to buy?!


 I did a google search for you and came up with this.

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/lelit-elizabeth-pl91t.html


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## Aamz23

DavecUK said:


> I did a google search for you and came up with this.
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/lelit-elizabeth-pl91t.html


 You're a good un!


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## DavecUK

Aamz23 said:


> You're a good un!


 Theres even a very detailed review on it and videos...


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## Aamz23

DavecUK said:


> Theres even a very detailed review on it and videos...


 Brilliant. The mara x looks more appealing. The Elizabeth looks a bit old fashioned but I guess looks arent everything


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## DavecUK

Aamz23 said:


> Brilliant. The mara x looks more appealing. The Elizabeth looks a bit old fashioned but I guess looks arent everything


 That's not true, for many people, looks are everything, for others brand is king..

It's interesting though, I would have said the Elizabeth is the more modern looking machine and the MaraX more traditional...who knows, me I like EM Pinball machines..., so what do I know. 🤣


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## njlhyde

My wife hates the MaraX but likes the Elizabeth.
Birthday present in a couple of months approved 

Guess it's because it's not too dissimilar to my outgoing Silvia.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cuprajake

mara looks nicer but the elizabeth is probably a step up.


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## Groke

Cuprajake said:


> mara looks nicer but the elizabeth is probably a step up.


 It's the same thinking that made me completely blow the budget and order a Bianca 😅 I really love the more traditional look of the E61 group (and the Bianca obviously has other selling points). The Elizabeth looks like a great machine though and I'm enjoying Dave's videos on it even though I have no intention of buying one now!


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## cuprajake

haha you say that .....


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## Aamz23

My mrs likes the look of the Elizabeth too. I guess it will grow on me and look better next to my Niche once that comes


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## DavecUK

Aamz23 said:


> My mrs likes the look of the Elizabeth too. I guess it will grow on me and look better next to my Niche once that comes


 As does mine...I must admit to liking it as well, but from a more practical perspective....very easy to keep clean.


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## Skizz

DavecUK said:


> As does mine...I must admit to liking it as well, but from a more practical perspective....very easy to keep clean.


 Looks like we've found a decision-maker-friendly machine then as smarter-half-of-skizz just expressed what I'm taking as aesthetic if not budgetary approval. Will keep working on the last bit


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## DavecUK

Skizz said:


> Looks like we've found a decision-maker-friendly machine then as smarter-half-of-skizz just expressed what I'm taking as aesthetic if not budgetary approval. Will keep working on the last bit


 Budget is always difficult, I guess if you often have coffee outside and you have a few less a week then it's easy to justify. Even so, it's significant expenditure that is made before joint budget holder can enjoy the results.


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## njlhyde

I think a big benefit here is that the home "barista" can optimise settings and extractions behind the scene and the other half can simply press a button in full auto mode, with a quick flush and clean 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK

njlhyde said:


> I think a big benefit here is that the home "barista" can optimise settings and extractions behind the scene and the other half can simply press a button in full auto mode, with a quick flush and clean


 I didn't want to say that....but yes.


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## spookym

Trying to get my head around how this compares to a Minima (assuming they sort out the reported issue and they become available again..). As I see it the Minima has bigger boilers and a different (but similar!) group. Would I notice much difference in practice using the machines? Is the quality of components etc comparable?


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## MediumRoastSteam

spookym said:


> Trying to get my head around how this compares to a Minima (assuming they sort out the reported issue and they become available again..). As I see it the Minima has bigger boilers and a different (but similar!) group. Would I notice much difference in practice using the machines? Is the quality of components etc comparable?


 I leave to someone else to answer this one. 🙂 - If no one does, I will. 🙂


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## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I leave to someone else to answer this one. 🙂 - If no one does, I will. 🙂


 You go for it...


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## cuprajake

njlhyde said:


> I think a big benefit here is that the home "barista" can optimise settings and extractions behind the scene and the other half can simply press a button in full auto mode, with a quick flush and clean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 cant say that in todays society, someone identifying as a dog from mars may get upset...


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## Apr1985

Yes @MediumRoastSteam has the la pav for sale 😀 my plan is coming together nicely. 
just need him to bring me a cup next time I go to ikea 😁


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## MediumRoastSteam

Apr1985 said:


> Yes @MediumRoastSteam has the la pav for sale 😀 my plan is coming together nicely.
> just need him to bring me a cup next time I go to ikea 😁


 I'm not too far away! 😂


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## MediumRoastSteam

spookym said:


> Trying to get my head around how this compares to a Minima (assuming they sort out the reported issue and they become available again..). As I see it the Minima has bigger boilers and a different (but similar!) group. Would I notice much difference in practice using the machines? Is the quality of components etc comparable?


 I suppose I'll have a go then...

The group of the Minima is very different to the group on the Elizabeth. Yes, it's a 58mm group, the portafilter and the group gasket is the same. And that's it. The Minima has an E61 group (but it's only the top part, so it's solenoid operated. It it's not a full E61 group mechanically operated. The advantage of that is that it doesn't require periodic maintenance and lubrication). The Elizabeth has what they call a "ring group", mounted immediately at the bottom of the boiler (no different to a Rancilio Silvia in that regard).

The Minima was originally intended as a "MINIMum" version of a prosumer dual boiler machine. It has big boilers, an E61 group head (pretty much industry standard). However, the maim objective is to give the best to the user whilst keeping the cost down. So, the pressure gauge is mounted on the group (that's a good thing, IMO). It's basically no frills, no fancy. Just works with trialed and tested components.

The Elizabeth is a domestic machine, full of cleverness and features. It's compact, suitable for a kitchen. It has small boilers, and lots of clever software to manage all the machine functions such as backflushing, timed shots, pre-infusion, etc. Components and software are somewhat proprietary.

In summary: They are different class of machines. Get the Minima if you have the space, and wants to buy something more standard, traditionally made. Or the Elizabeth if you want cool technology and a clever machine which helps you make your coffee, with a fast heat time.

The Minima can be compared, functionality wise to machines like: Expobar Brewtus IV, Profitec 600, Profitec 700, ECM Synchornika, Rocket R58 (any many other dual boiler, E61 machines).

The Elizabeth can be compared to: Sage Dual Boiler, Profitec P-300.

Hopefully the above is useful.


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## spookym

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Hopefully the above is useful.


 Thanks really useful. I am struggling to get that kind of high level overview from reading around... all down to my lack of understanding rather than the lack of information!


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## Aamz23

spookym said:


> Thanks really useful. I am struggling to get that kind of high level overview from reading around... all down to my lack of understanding rather than the lack of information!


 Its an absolute mindful and people have different opinions. I was all set on buying the mara x and now im not sure. I need to know if this is considerably better than the mara x. The faster warmer times sounds appealing


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## Rob1

It seems to me the Elizabeth and Mara X have different selling points and you have to decide which one is better for you. I personally wouldn't go for the Elizabeth over the Mara. Or maybe I would, it's difficult to decide. I like the ability to add the bianca paddle to the E61, but dislike the lack of precise temperature control on the Mara, and prefer the solenoid group to the lever. The ability to alter flow rates on the fly has proven really valuable though...I guess if I didn't want to paddle Mara I'd go for Elizabeth.


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## Aamz23

Im so confused. Dont know which to get. Making 2/3 milk based coffees a day sometimes more if we have guests, niche on the way, upgrading from sage barista express.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Aamz23 said:


> Im so confused. Dont know which to get. Making 2/3 milk based coffees a day sometimes more if we have guests, niche on the way, upgrading from sage barista express.


 Think as this pretty much like a car. They all take you around (make you a coffee). Think of your requirements, think what you need, think of your expectations. Aesthetics. Size. Maintenance. Upgradability. Accessories. Feel. Control. Usage (per day, per session). Longevity. Repairability. Simplicity. Complexity. Quality. Build. Think of what you want and we can help you.


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## Aamz23

Size doesnt matter i have a coffee station in my kitchen. Aesthetics just needs too look appealing. As I have little free time i need something which is mostly easy to maintain and clean. I need something which will last me 5 years. I dont want to mess around with it and change this and that, I need the total package basically. To me spending £1500 is a lot of money and going from a sage BE to something like a mara or elizabeth is a big step up and also waiting on a niche. I need something which is easy to clean, ill make 2 coffees in morning most days and on days off might make an extra 2 in the afternoon. I do get guests often so sometimes i will need something that can make 3/4 milk based drinks in a go with ease.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Aamz23 said:


> Size doesnt matter i have a coffee station in my kitchen. Aesthetics just needs too look appealing. As I have little free time i need something which is mostly easy to maintain and clean. I need something which will last me 5 years. I dont want to mess around with it and change this and that, I need the total package basically. To me spending £1500 is a lot of money and going from a sage BE to something like a mara or elizabeth is a big step up and also waiting on a niche. I need something which is easy to clean, ill make 2 coffees in morning most days and on days off might make an extra 2 in the afternoon. I do get guests often so sometimes i will need something that can make 3/4 milk based drinks in a go with ease.


 No matter what, you need to look after it. Like your car. You can do little or as much maintenance as you want. You can treat it with respect or something which you will replace in 5 years. Gosh, this statement worries me: "I need something which will last me 5 years." - For me, I want something that would last me 20 years at least! Something, that, in 5 years, if I fancy a change, I can confidently sell it on and be sure it will still work as new, because it's been looked after and being taken care of.

Anyway... So looks like you are looking around the £1500 mark. Take a look at the Lelit Elizabeth or the ACS Minima as those are relatively low maintenance.

Not being funny, but wondering whether you are better off with a Sage Dual boiler with some sort of extended guarantee package. When it pops (hopefully within the guarantee period) you can have it replaced.

Question: What type of water will you be feeding your machine with? This is the biggest killer of coffee machines. Feed it with the wrong thing and you'd be seeing all sorts of weird problems, until eventually it breaks.


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## Aamz23

I use Ashbeck water mainly. My Sage is well looked after. The ACS minima seems to have a lot of issue and BB have stopped selling them it seems. I need something attainable soon. This new Elizabeth seems like it will do the job, just a bit iffy on the looks, but guess i can live with that. Whats the real difference between this and the mara x for a user like me, will I notice the difference.

I will look after it for sure and will need it to last me before i do upgrade and sell it on. Just like i look after my BE. I don't want another sage tbh i need something a bit more different.


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## DavecUK

Aamz23 said:


> I use Ashbeck water mainly. My Sage is well looked after. The ACS minima seems to have a lot of issue and BB have stopped selling them it seems. I need something attainable soon. This new Elizabeth seems like it will do the job, just a bit iffy on the looks, but guess i can live with that. Whats the real difference between this and the mara x for a user like me, will I notice the difference.


 Read both reviews carefully, all the information you need is there.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Aamz23 said:


> I use Ashbeck water mainly. My Sage is well looked after. The ACS minima seems to have a lot of issue and BB have stopped selling them it seems. I need something attainable soon. This new Elizabeth seems like it will do the job, just a bit iffy on the looks, but guess i can live with that. Whats the real difference between this and the mara x for a user like me, will I notice the difference.
> 
> I will look after it for sure and will need it to last me before i do upgrade and sell it on. Just like i look after my BE. I don't want another sage tbh i need something a bit more different.


 I wouldn't discard the Minima. There's an issue going on - only in the UK apparently! - but there are other people there who are happy. I don't think the MaraX is for you: The traditional E61 group mechanically operated requires lubrication (takes like 10 minutes every month) after chemically backflushing. The Minima is solenoid operated, so doesn't need that. The E61 takes a little while to come up to temp (40 mins) but after that is a very stable beast! If you plan to leave the machine on all day, then do consider it. Spares are widely available, and you can later add a flow control valve, a thermometer or whatever you fancy. If you plan to turn the machine on, wait 17 minutes and make a coffee, then look no further than the Elizabeth. The other contender is the Profitec-300 - but it does not have any of the bells and whistles of the Elizabeth. The P-300 is rather old school for today's standards.

PS: Do consider an Osmio Zero Water if you have the space and are using bottled water at the moment. I don't think you'd regret it.


----------



## spookym

I have been in a similar position to you. I think there is a tendency to try and find the 'right answer', but the reality is that there probably isnt a right answer. All of the machines mentioned will probably be great in practice. I liked the look and tradition of the Minima, but it seems that you would have to get one direct as BellaBarista suggested to me they wouldnt be restocking. That may not be much of a problem as ACS seem a good company to deal with, but I quite liked potential less hassle of dealing with a retailer, and one who has a good reputation.



DavecUK said:


> Read both reviews carefully, all the information you need is there.


 I would recommend this. I am sure you will have read the reviews before, but if you have narrowed it down to Mara x or Elizabeth, just go through the reviews in detail, thinking about your specific needs and then just make a decision. I did that with Minima v Elizabeth and decided to go with the Elizabeth. I preferred the look of the Minima but liked a few things on the Elizabeth more, specifically for me I realised quiet machine would be good so as not to wake the house up if someone was leaving early for work etc



MediumRoastSteam said:


> PS: Do consider an Osmio Zero Water if you have the space and are using bottled water at the moment. I don't think you'd regret it.


 ..and I took this advice and got one already and they are great. Really surprised that we have dumped the kettle and are not missing it and I am all set for when the new machine arrives


----------



## DavecUK

spookym said:


> I have been in a similar position to you. I think there is a tendency to try and find the 'right answer', but the reality is that there probably isnt a right answer. All of the machines mentioned will probably be great in practice.


 I think this is the key point. For all the machines I've bothered to produce a review, they all make good coffee, they all work they all have certain features I liked. Sure they are different prices but there is something there for everyone at all price points. I don't bother with the very cheap (unless there's something special) and I don't bother with the pointy end because it's a waste of my time. Once machines get super expensive the potential owners have made their decision and are usually looking at reviews to validate said decision....there are much fewer owners and I can help more by reviewing the more accessible machines.

There is a spectrum of cost and diminishing returns as machines get more expensive. At the lower priced end you have to be super careful because significant gotchas can exist between machines of the same price and sometimes vs more expensive machines. One small dual boiler I did an engineering review on wouldn't even come close to Elizabeth and yet costs more!!


----------



## Aamz23

Sounds like Elizabeth or minima will be my best bit, the mara x looks lovely though and i was all sold on that. The faster warm up time and less hassle of the Elizabeth is also an attraction


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> One small dual boiler I did an engineering review on wouldn't even come close to Elizabeth and yet costs more!!


 I'm intrigued!


----------



## Aamz23

How does this compare to the profitec 300 at a similar price point?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Aamz23 said:


> How does this compare to the profitec 300 at a similar price point?


 Man, I trolled the internet. There's a lot of info on the P-300, specially in the German forum Kaffee-netz. Google translate is your friend.

But, from what I gathered:

- P-300, trialed and tested, same design as original. All metal. sturdy. bulky. built like a tank. No bells or whistles.

- Elizabeth: Lots of bells and whistles, modern, clever, an evolving machine for the past 3-4 years. compact, kitchen friendly.


----------



## Aamz23

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Man, I trolled the internet. There's a lot of info on the P-300, specially in the German forum Kaffee-netz. Google translate is your friend.
> 
> But, from what I gathered:
> 
> - P-300, trialed and tested, same design as original. All metal. sturdy. bulky. built like a tank. No bells or whistles.
> 
> - Elizabeth: Lots of bells and whistles, modern, clever, an evolving machine for the past 3-4 years. compact, kitchen friendly.


 So they seem to be quite similar then? Trying to ascertain which makes better coffee, the pro 300 seems to warm up a lot quicker.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Aamz23 said:


> So they seem to be quite similar then? Trying to ascertain which makes better coffee, the pro 300 seems to warm up a lot quicker.


 They are in the same category but they are very different, if it makes sense. Please do some research and look at videos. Look at the inside of them. There are plenty. The Elizabeth is NOT a new machine. people have asked this question in other forums. You just need to do some web search.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I have pre-ordered this machine today. I'll keep everyone posted.


----------



## Stanic

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I have pre-ordered this machine today. I'll keep everyone posted.


 Cool, looking forward to your experience with it


----------



## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I have pre-ordered this machine today. I'll keep everyone posted.


 Elizabeth? From BB? What is the lead time on pre-orders.

Having got rid of one machine, i kept thinking manual (ROK, Robot) was the way forward for me, but i realised 1) i was looking to get away from the faff of E61 lub and 2) i need to feed my machines better water (hence me signing for the Osmio group buy).......Elizabeth looks like it might be perfect for my use.....


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> Elizabeth? From BB? What is the lead time on pre-orders.
> 
> Having got rid of one machine, i kept thinking manual (ROK, Robot) was the way forward for me, but i realised 1) i was looking to get away from the faff of E61 lub and 2) i need to feed my machines better water (hence me signing for the Osmio group buy).......Elizabeth looks like it might be perfect for my use.....


 Looks like we are on the same boat here. 😉. I have no ETA on the Elizabeth, but BB said on their site "early late July" - whatever that means. We are towards the end of July, so presumably not long.

I've been eying out this machine for a while. Please notice the Elizabeth is not brand new. It's been around a little while, and this is technically it's 3rd version. And when Dave said he would do a review on it, I knew that I just had to wait. If the review wasn't so positive, I would have gone for the Profitec 300.
let's not forget this all started with the Londinium Compact, which, apparently it will be released by the end of the year. As The LC had a few delays, I realised I've waited far too long. They lost a potential buyer I suppose. 🤔🤷‍♂️


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Making preparations for the new arrival....







fruit boxes and a piece of string can do wonders.... 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Looks like we are on the same boat here


 I think we might be. To be honest, if I was back in the office, I probably would stick with a manual. But I probably won't be in the office until mid October......


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> I think we might be. To be honest, if I was back in the office, I probably would stick with a manual. But I probably won't be in the office until mid October......


 Yeah. Same here. Man... this boat.... 😂😂😂😂😂 - for us at least until October. And I think dynamics of office work are in for a significant change. I like a change now and again. It seems my pattern is every two years.... watch this space in August 2022! 😂😂😂😂


----------



## Groke

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Looks like we are on the same boat here. 😉. I have no ETA on the Elizabeth, but BB said on their site "early late July" - whatever that means. We are towards the end of July, so presumably not long.
> 
> I've been eying out this machine for a while. Please notice the Elizabeth is not brand new. It's been around a little while, and this is technically it's 3rd version. And when Dave said he would do a review on it, I knew that I just had to wait. If the review wasn't so positive, I would have gone for the Profitec 300.
> let's not forget this all started with the Londinium Compact, which, apparently it will be released by the end of the year. As The LC had a few delays, I realised I've waited far too long. They lost a potential buyer I suppose. 🤔🤷‍♂️


 Not sure how many collections they do per month, so might mean nothing - but BB collected my Bianca on Friday. Should be with them mon/tue and shipped out to me late next week. Hopefully your machine will be in the same shipment, or will follow soon after🤞


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Groke said:


> Not sure how many collections they do per month, so might mean nothing - but BB collected my Bianca on Friday. Should be with them mon/tue and shipped out to me late next week. Hopefully your machine will be in the same shipment, or will follow soon after🤞


 I spoke to someone at BB, and apparently they have arrived... 🙂 - So, with some luck, I'll be drinking espressos again on Wednesday. 🤞


----------



## Groke

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I spoke to someone at BB, and apparently they have arrived... 🙂 - So, with some luck, I'll be drinking espressos again on Wednesday. 🤞


 Nice! Thanks for the update. I'm getting excited now! Think it's going to be a bit of a learning curve going from my Classic - but hopefully it won't take too many duff shots and milk sprayed up the walls before I have something I can drink 😋


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Groke said:


> Nice! Thanks for the update. I'm getting excited now! Think it's going to be a bit of a learning curve going from my Classic - but hopefully it won't take too many duff shots and milk sprayed up the walls before I have something I can drink 😋


 Rumour has it that that paddle is dubbed as "the shot saver". 😂


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/lelit-elizabeth-pl91t.html

WOOP WOOP!









note: Bella Barista does a really lousy job on their website... Look at the URL.... says *pl91t. *I've noticed similar in other products... So bad.

Also the tech Specs.... If you look in the "More Info", I'm apparently buying a "Technika MK IV"

All very well for us who know what we are after... But for a novice who wants to buy a new machine... Doesn't inspire much confidence and can be quite confusing. Shame really.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Note to self: keep machine until the new one arrives. 









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jason11

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Note to self: keep machine until the new one arrives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Was this on purpose incase the wife started questioning as to why you need the Elizabeth ?


----------



## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I spoke to someone at BB, and apparently they have arrived...


 i must wait until i get nice water to feed it with.........


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Jason11 said:


> Was this on purpose incase the wife started questioning as to why you need the Elizabeth ?


 Got shipment tracking number... ????


----------



## spookym

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Got shipment tracking number... 🤞


 me too 😀😀


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## MediumRoastSteam

spookym said:


> me too 😀😀


 For the Elizabeth!?


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## spookym

MediumRoastSteam said:


> For the Elizabeth!?


 yep


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## MediumRoastSteam

spookym said:


> yep


 Cool! You can do the unboxing video. 😂


----------



## zidane72003

Hello guys. Will it be an accurate guess to think that every E61 portafilter will be worked in Elizabeth?🤔


----------



## Stanic

MediumRoastSteam said:


> .. this all started with the Londinium Compact, which, apparently it will be released by the end of the year. As The LC had a few delays, I realised I've waited far too long. They lost a potential buyer I suppose.


 Similar here..I wouldn't hold my breath for this year's release either


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

zidane72003 said:


> Hello guys. Will it be an accurate guess to think that every E61 portafilter will be worked in Elizabeth?🤔


 Yes.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Arrived it has... flushed it's been.... coffee it made...

I was dreading the two hole tip.... worked wonders for a first one!

just couldn't take the case off (no time, was on lunch break). But will do so in due course to check the internals.


----------



## DavecUK

It all fits then


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## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> It all fits then


 Just! And then I was thinking I could fit a MaraX there... No way! 😂

Very pleased with my choice. Can't wait for the next coffee tomorrow


----------



## Stanic

Looking good 👍


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## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Very pleased with my choice


 looks great


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

spookym said:


> yep


 Hey, have you received yours? Have you pulled a few shots yet?


----------



## spookym

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Hey, have you received yours? Have you pulled a few shots yet?


 Yes got it yesterday as well. Really liking it so far, although my workflow is all over the place! Coming from a Pav on which I used the cappuccinatore, so having to learn how to do proper milk! I think the Elizabeth feels well built and solid and think the fast warm up time will be a real benefit for me. Also liking the simplicity, so that when everything is dialled in the family will easily be able to make good coffee as well.


----------



## ZiggyMarley

can i ask, does it have a proper on-off switch so you can put it on a time/internet switch.....


----------



## spookym

ZiggyMarley said:


> can i ask, does it have a proper on-off switch so you can put it on a time/internet switch.....


 yes, it is on the top left hand side of the machine


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

spookym said:


> I used the cappuccinatore,


 😱

Don't speak to me ever again. 🤣

Same here. I came from a Pavoni - although I had a proper dual boiler machine before the Pav - and now have to re-learn all the tricks of the trade again! I'll get there, but I know what you mean.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> can i ask, does it have a proper on-off switch so you can put it on a time/internet switch.....


 Yeah, it has a mechanical switch (did you read Dave's review) - But honestly, unless your morning routine is very tight, you don't need it. It's ready to rock and roll in 17 minutes!


----------



## DavecUK

I just edited the sway review and put the "smart plug and on/off bit" in the key features as well, so people get two chances to see it.


----------



## ZiggyMarley

DavecUK said:


> I just edited the sway review and put the "smart plug and on/off bit" in the key features as well, so people get two chances to see it.


 I did see your review but must have missed the bit about the in/off switch 👍


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I have to say.... I take back everything I said about two hole steam tips. Maybe it was my lack of experience at the time, maybe it was a crappy 2 hole steam tip on a Rocket HX... on this machine.... oh boy.

Look at the orientation of the holes. Make sure they are pointing 12-6 o'clock or thereabouts in relation of the spout of the jug. Place the tip just slightly submerged Towards the rear side of the jug (nearest to you). You do not need to angle the jug. Turn the tap on.... keep it there, guided by sounds, and let it do its thing.


----------



## DavecUK

Having lots of pressure makes a big difference.


----------



## njlhyde

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I have to say.... I take back everything I said about two hole steam tips. Maybe it was my lack of experience at the time, maybe it was a crappy 2 hole steam tip on a Rocket HX... on this machine.... oh boy.
> Look at the orientation of the holes. Make sure they are pointing 12-6 o'clock or thereabouts in relation of the spout of the jug. Place the tip just slightly submerged Towards the rear side of the jug (nearest to you). You do not need to angle the jug. Turn the tap on.... keep it there, guided by sounds, and let it do its thing.


How's the Elizabeth comparing to the other machines you have had previously (hx/ double boilers) - is it you who had the profitec pro 700?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

njlhyde said:


> How's the Elizabeth comparing to the other machines you have had previously (hx/ double boilers) - is it you who had the profitec pro 700?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 I really like it. I don't think you can compare as such.

the Profitec is a different class of machine: very stable, solid, heavy, rotary pump, E61. No frills, someone describing it as "boring". I really enjoyed that machine. But it took 40 mins to heat up. One of the big gripes I had was that I had to plan to have a coffee. 
the Elizabeth is compact, small, clever, but it's a domestic machine, and he price and components used reflect that. I'm not complaining, it's just what it is.

if I had to buy again: the Elizabeth for sure, for what I need and want. If are happy to leave the machine on all day, mod it with paddle paddle, want a rotary pump etc go for an E61 dual boiler... Bianca maybe?

as for HX... cooling flushes and I did not get on. The MaraX being an exception, but in 2014/15 it wasn't an option. 😊


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

So looks like there are two of us who bought the Elizabeth so far. Anyone else?

I've been playing with bloom pre-infusion recently. It makes a hell of a difference to the shot taste, using July's LSOL. With pre-infusion the notes are much more pronounced. Without it, it's more muted.


----------



## DavecUK

I set up one button for bloom and one for steam preinfusion, then I switch the steam boiler on or off with the - button, depending on which type of preinfusion I want to use. I sometimes find steam pressure preinfusion works well...sometimes bloom phase. It's always worth trying both.

I run my steam boiler at 140C


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> I run my steam boiler at 140C


 I left mine at 135C and only using bloom pre-infusion at the moment, comparing to no pre-infusion, until I get to know the machine better.


----------



## njlhyde

DavecUK said:


> I set up one button for bloom and one for steam preinfusion, then I switch the steam boiler on or off with the - button, depending on which type of preinfusion I want to use. I sometimes find steam pressure preinfusion works well...sometimes bloom phase. It's always worth trying both.
> 
> I run my steam boiler at 140C


What are the two different settings you use on the two buttons. I read the review and both button setups seem the same.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## DavecUK

Working from memory I think it's a 12 second preinfusion on button 2 with a 5s pump run bloom and 3 second pump run for steam preinfusion. I'll have to remember to check later. If the boiler is on, switching it off by holding - immediately moves to you bloom preinfusion.

The initial pump run you set in advanced settings.

You can set the other button up for 2 different preinfusions, allowing 4 different shot types ready to rock.


----------



## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Anyone else?


 we are pondering


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

njlhyde said:


> What are the two different settings you use on the two buttons. I read the review and both button setups seem the same.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 You can setup buttons 1 and 2 to whatever you want. You can configure pre-infusion pump run for steam pressure, pump run time for bloom pre-infusion, total pre-Infusion time and shot time. My button 1 is for a 11 second pre-infusion. If service boiler is on, it will use steam boiler pressure pre-infusion. If off, bloom pre-infusion. My button two is configured for no pre-infusion what so ever. The brew time for both my buttons is off at the moment, meaning the pump will continue running until I interrupt it by pressing one of the buttons. However, it would be best to set them to something like 50 seconds as, if anything happens (E.g: you need to answer the door) you know it will stop at some point. You can terminate the shot pouring at anytime.


----------



## njlhyde

I regularly steam 500 or 750ml of milk in one go.
Will there be enough steam available?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Skizz

njlhyde said:


> I regularly steam 500 or 750ml of milk in one go.
> Will there be enough steam available?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Watch @DavecUK's video here:


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Yesterday I discovered a great feature of the machine: LSP, or Last Shot Protection. 
instead of just cutting off the pump because the tank water level fell below a certain level whilst making a coffee, the machine instead warned me via the display and allowed me to finish the shot. After that, I had to fill up the tank in order to carry on operating the machine.

i don't know the specifics, but I'm assuming the pump would've cut off after a certain time if I'd carried on pulling a shot for another minute, as an example (no, I don't want to try it out). 😉

That's a really nice touch. My expensive Profitec 700 when I had it, simply cut everything off if the water level passed a certain point. Incredibly annoying, that was, if you were just about to finish your espresso shot!


----------



## DavecUK

njlhyde said:


> I regularly steam 500 or 750ml of milk in one go.
> Will there be enough steam available?


 My Largest jug can only steam 500ml of milk in one go due to expansion as the foam forms but it will hold 750ml of water. During my tests *with the steam boiler set to 140C Lelit Elizabeth can steam 750ml of water from 5C to 60C in under 2 minutes with no autofill of the steam boiler during that time, the steam temperature as the target temp was reached was 127C (or 1.47 bar).*

I would say that it's a very large quantity of milk to steam in one go and most people wouldn't have a 1.2 litre capacity milk jug?

So the answer to your question is,* yes, no problem*....in fact more so than many other machines..


----------



## -Mac

MediumRoastSteam said:


> So looks like there are two of us who bought the Elizabeth so far. Anyone else?
> 
> I've been playing with bloom pre-infusion recently. It makes a hell of a difference to the shot taste, using July's LSOL. With pre-infusion the notes are much more pronounced. Without it, it's more muted.


 Not yet, but one day. Hopefully within 6 months.


----------



## njlhyde

DavecUK said:


> My Largest jug can only steam 500ml of milk in one go due to expansion as the foam forms but it will hold 750ml of water. During my tests *with the steam boiler set to 140C Lelit Elizabeth can steam 750ml of water from 5C to 60C in under 2 minutes with no autofill of the steam boiler during that time, the steam temperature as the target temp was reached was 127C (or 1.47 bar).*
> I would say that it's a very large quantity of milk to steam in one go and most people wouldn't have a 1.2 litre capacity milk jug?
> So the answer to your question is,* yes, no problem*....in fact more so than many other machines..


Hi Dave

750ml was probably a bit exaggerated.

This morning I steamed 570ml for three large lattes (wife, mother-in-law and me). I usually use a little more (~600ml and overfill the jug) - I know this is not ideal but just trying to cut down the time on my SBU and being a bit lazy first thing.

I guess I was looking for confirmation that I could if I need to and the second question would be if the MaraX can as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DavecUK

njlhyde said:


> I guess I was looking for confirmation that I could if I need to and the second question would be if the MaraX can as well.


 From memory the MaraX would probably not perform quite as well steaming 750ml of milk. The Elizabeth, as I said in one of the review videos, is a better steamer than MaraX.


----------



## ZiggyMarley

ZiggyMarley said:


> we are pondering


 my ponder is whether Elizabeth or Victoria - we havent really made milk based drinks at home (we dont even buy milk) but my wife like them - so we are pondering


----------



## DavecUK

ZiggyMarley said:


> my ponder is whether Elizabeth or Victoria - we havent really made milk based drinks at home (we dont even buy milk) but my wife like them - so we are pondering


 Then definitely get the Elizabeth!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> my ponder is whether Elizabeth or Victoria - we havent really made milk based drinks at home (we dont even buy milk) but my wife like them - so we are pondering


 I was myself in a similar dilemma. But having to wait to steam milk is not great, and you might as well find yourself making more milk drinks because the machine lets you.

Also, I'm glad I didn't buy the Victoria... check this!

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53495-lelit-victoria-pl91t-peoples-thoughts/?do=embed

The pre infusion on the Elizabeth is great. It makes a huge difference, specially with light roasts. I have one button programmed with pre-infusion and another without, and having been playing with them both. A light roast with pre infusion is amazing.


----------



## DavecUK

Looks nice, I should give Paul P a call and see if I can test out some of the cafelat stuff...one day perhaps.


----------



## Aamz23

This is the v3 right?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Aamz23 said:


> This is the v3 right?


 Yes. If you buy new, this is what you'll get.


----------



## eamon

thanks to all for the info, and to DaveUK for the review videos.
box of goodies arrived from Italy today.
The journey begins!









Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dorian

Hi everyone,

How would I know if this one sold from Amazon is the V3?

https://www.amazon.de/Lelit-Elizabeth-PL92T-Semiprofessional-Preinfusion/dp/B07Q5V179F/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=Lelit&qid=1598111820&sr=8-6

I would use the machine for 4/5 espresso a day, milk drinks only when my other half is around...and in the w end, so mainly I would keep the steam boiler off. (I d be thinking about the extra on the bill all the time, I m too much of a cheap bastard)

How long would the steam boiler take to get up to temp?

Finally, does it come with the red tamper like the Mara X? 

I like the Mara X better, but the faster heating time and the availability on Amazon make me think about getting the Elizabeth ( before somebody asks, I d use Amazon vouchers for 70% of the value )


----------



## Jason11

I don't think it comes with a tamper at all.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Dorian said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> How would I know if this one sold from Amazon is the V3?
> 
> https://www.amazon.de/Lelit-Elizabeth-PL92T-Semiprofessional-Preinfusion/dp/B07Q5V179F/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=Lelit&qid=1598111820&sr=8-6
> 
> I would use the machine for 4/5 espresso a day, milk drinks only when my other half is around...and in the w end, so mainly I would keep the steam boiler off. (I d be thinking about the extra on the bill all the time, I m too much of a cheap bastard)
> 
> How long would the steam boiler take to get up to temp?
> 
> Finally, does it come with the red tamper like the Mara X?
> 
> I like the Mara X better, but the faster heating time and the availability on Amazon make me think about getting the Elizabeth ( before somebody asks, I d use Amazon vouchers for 70% of the value )


 It doesn't come with a tamper.

It's impossible to tell if it's a new version or not. You could ask...

boiler takes no time to come up to temp. Like, 5 minutes if that? I never timed.

I take you did read Dave's review?


----------



## Dorian

MediumRoastSteam said:


> It doesn't come with a tamper.
> 
> It's impossible to tell if it's a new version or not. You could ask...
> 
> boiler takes no time to come up to temp. Like, 5 minutes if that? I never timed.
> 
> I take you did read Dave's review?


 Thanks @MediumRoastSteam,

The missing tamper is bummer 🤦

Actually didn't read the review but watched all his videos, I m a subscriber.

I guess I can turn on the steam boiler only when I need it... That s very tempting... 🤔


----------



## DavecUK

Dorian said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> How would I know if this one sold from Amazon is the V3?


 If it's not, then you could get the LCC re-flashed with the latest software. Then the main difference after software would be the older cheapass inaccessible expansion valve which I insisted they change for a good one in an accessible position and the QuietX pump instead of the normal ULKA (which was already fairly quiet in Elizabeth).

New software would give you all the great new functions and fixes though.

P.S. Ask for a photo of the serial number sticker on the back see if it's got a production date....July onwards and it has all the improvements I asked for.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Or... ask them to take a photo of the LCC when it boots up. It should read "Version 5.05a"


----------



## Dorian

DavecUK said:


> If it's not, then you could get the LCC re-flashed with the latest software. Then the main difference after software would be the older cheapass inaccessible expansion valve which I insisted they change for a good one in an accessible position and the QuietX pump instead of the normal ULKA (which was already fairly quiet in Elizabeth).
> 
> New software would give you all the great new functions and fixes though.
> 
> P.S. Ask for a photo of the serial number sticker on the back see if it's got a production date....July onwards and it has all the improvements I asked for.


 Thanks Dave, will do.


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Or... ask them to take a photo of the LCC when it boots up. It should read "Version 5.05a"


 This as well....I forgot because I've so many versions on different LCCs floating around.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> P.S. Ask for a photo of the serial number sticker on the back see if it's got a production date....July onwards and it has all the improvements I asked for.


 Just being pedantic.... mine has a serial number / date of 30th June 2020. Close enough (I don't know where the serial number is on the machine, but that's what it says on the sticker on the box).


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Just being pedantic.... mine has a serial number / date of 30th June 2020. Close enough (I don't know where the serial number is on the machine, but that's what it says on the sticker on the box).


 Yeah end of June should be fine because they didn't build any for april may and most of june.


----------



## eamon

My machine was made July 2020 and has v505.
There was a leaflet with the new features, I'll try to upload tomorrow. 
It comes with a cheap plastic tamper. To avoid confusion the red tamper and wooden handle porta filter in my photo were bought as extras. 
For other eu buyers, I got mine from https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## eamon

Pictures of the leaflet describing the updated software
















Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## Blue_Cafe

The same boiler temp as my V2 Gaggia.

Interesting. I like the techno application.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Blue_Cafe said:


> The same boiler temp as my V2 Gaggia.
> 
> Interesting. I like the techno application.


 That's the temperature in the group, not in the boiler, mind you. There's a 10C difference.


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> That's the temperature in the group, not in the boiler, mind you. There's a 10C difference.


 I still prefer my Sway document on the LCC and it's functions . The maintenance Sway is good as well, even if I do say so myself.


----------



## eamon

DavecUK said:


> I still prefer my Sway document on the LCC and it's functions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The maintenance Sway is good as well, even if I do say so myself.


absolutely. Your reviews and videos are very informative. You should be on commission 
added the pics of the leaflet so people can see what comes with it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## DavecUK

eamon said:


> absolutely. Your reviews and videos are very informative. You should be on commission
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> added the pics of the leaflet so people can see what comes with it.


 Some people are convinced I am


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

More information on this machine. Not all v3, but still very relevant.

Can't understand Russian? Good translate is your friend!

https://prokofe.ru/plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?203037.0

translated: https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=https://prokofe.ru/plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php%3F203037.0&prev=search&pto=aue

and some good lengthy discussions on the Romanian Espressoman forum site:

https://www.espressoman.ro/forum/Thread-Lelit-PL-92-T-Elizabeth

Home Barista..

https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/lelit-elizabeth-owner-experience-t58290.html

and some not so relevant stuff on Kaffee Netz:

https://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/lelit-pl92t-elizabeth-pid-einstellungen-messungen.124174/


----------



## Starred

This machine sounds very promising for my needs.

What are the key things I lose compared to the Bianca besides profiling?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Starred said:


> This machine sounds very promising for my needs.
> 
> What are the key things I lose compared to the Bianca besides profiling?


 They are a totally different class of machine. I don't think you will "lose" anything though, flavour wise. Imagine the Bianca being a nice Audi A5, whereas the Elizabeth is more of an Audi A3.


----------



## Jason11

MediumRoastSteam said:


> They are a totally different class of machine. I don't think you will "lose" anything though, flavour wise. Imagine the Bianca being a nice Audi A5, whereas the Elizabeth is more of an Audi A3.


I have to ask what that makes the MaraX then?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Jason11 said:


> I have to ask what that makes the MaraX then?


 The A4! 🙂


----------



## Jason11

MediumRoastSteam said:


> The A4!


I was hoping it would be an RS model!


----------



## Starred

MediumRoastSteam said:


> The A4! 🙂


 So you also consider the MaraX to be a step above the Elizabeth?


----------



## Inspector

With A4, he interior is far more refined and provides you with more of an executive feel than the *A3*. Furthermore, while the two machines look similar sizes, the *A4* does have more space in the back. 😁


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Starred said:


> So you also consider the MaraX to be a step above the Elizabeth?


 No, I don't. I think they are sideways. They are a different class of machine. I also don't think the A4 is better than the A3. 😊

you get my gist right? The Elizabeth has small boilers. Small group. PTFE tubing. Very basic steam knob. The MaraX has compression steam and hot water taps, an E61 group. Doesn't mean one is better than the other. It's just a different type of machine.


----------



## Starred

Ok, I get the picture.

By the way, is the E61 group still regarded as king of the hill?


----------



## LJDUK

Can't decide whether to go for an Elizabeth or Mara x. Help!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Starred said:


> Ok, I get the picture.
> 
> By the way, is the E61 group still regarded as king of the hill?


 well. There are lots of spares, accessories, trialled and tested, very temp. stable. is it the king of the hill? Perhaps.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

LJDUK said:


> Can't decide whether to go for an Elizabeth or Mara x. Help!


 What do you want from your machine? Name your top 7 requirements. Tell us about your daily/weekly usage. Who's using it? Which grinder have you got.


----------



## LJDUK

I currently have a barista express but now want to upgrade. 
Want a great espresso/americano - not really into lattes tho visitors often do on occasion.

4 of us in the house so guess 4-6 americanos a day, 8 max.

Wife not technical so doubt she'd be happy handling either tho Mara x probably the more user friendly.

Prefer the look of the Mara x to the Elizabeth in the kitchen , tho I know that shouldn't matter.

on grinder front plan to go with specialiti in chrome so it matches- find the sette 270, niche etc pretty ugly (there I go with aesthetics again).

A downside with Mara x is the length of time it takes to warm up tho guess I could get a plug timer to sort out my coffee need first thing.

Why consider the Elizabeth? - cos I'm on a learning Curve and reckon the Elizabeth has a lot more under the bonnet.

We like to entertain (or did pre Covid) and with the BE couldn't make enough coffees in short order, especially if need to use steamer.

From what I see the Mara x holds its own in the steam front?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I think both machines will do the trick for you. If you are talking about making coffees in quick succession (say, four, one after the other) both will handle that job pretty well.

the MaraX is a more basic machine: you have 3 settings for temperature, and that's it (personally, you really don't need anything more then that) and the steam is pretty good.

the Elizabeth offers more features, and it's a dual boiler machine: offer amazing steam, and has timed buttons and pre-infusion. And you can tweak various settings to your heart's content. If you don't drink milk based drinks often, then you can operate the Elizabeth is Eco mode (only the brew boiler is turned on). The machine is ready and temperature stable in about 17 minutes. The MaraX on the other hand only has one boiler and will take at least 30-35 (as far as I know) minutes to stabilise itself.

how about maintenance? The MaraX will require you to lube the cam lever every month or so. On both machines you need to keep things clean and use good water which won't scale. The MaraX consumes more water than the Elizabeth.


----------



## LJDUK

Really appreciate your thoughts MediumRoastSteam. Whichever I go with I know it's going to be a lot better than the BE!


----------



## Andrewczy

Just chiming in here. I upgraded from a barista express to a Mara X recently and love it. I know looks don't always matter, but it's just pleasing pulling a shot on this via the e61 lever.

I've got it connected via a smart plug which makes life convenient, and there's always a possibility of adding the Bianca kit to it in the future if you play around with a lot of lighter roasts


----------



## LJDUK

Like the sound of the Bianca kit!


----------



## Starred

Out of interrest, is the difference in size between the Elizabeth and the MaraX only due to the E61 group in the latter?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Starred said:


> Out of interrest, is the difference in size between the Elizabeth and the MaraX only due to the E61 group in the latter?


 They are completely different form factors. The Elizabeth is wider and shallower.


----------



## njlhyde

MediumRoastSteam said:


> They are completely different form factors. The Elizabeth is wider and shallower.


If you bought again and you had the space, would it be the Elizabeth or the Mara X?

I'd be interested if you are finding that the ease of use and functions of the Elizabeth more benefit to you than the more traditional E61.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam

njlhyde said:


> If you bought again and you had the space, would it be the Elizabeth or the Mara X?
> 
> I'd be interested if you are finding that the ease of use and functions of the Elizabeth more benefit to you than the more traditional E61.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Very good question. I was starting a write up on this. Personally, for *my needs *(this is important), I'd buy the Elizabeth again. I really like the pre-infusion capabilities of the Elizabeth and the fact it heats up in 17 minutes (I can't/don't want to leave the machine on all day) as well as it's very compact size. Moreover, the Elizabeth diverts the excess from the OPV back to the tank, unlike the MaraX. For me, this is not good because I distil and re-mineralise my water. Throwing water away is not an option. But, if I had the space, an Osmio could solve this problem quite easily. The other thing I really like is the fact I can simply backflush the ring group... As often as I want.... Without having to lubricate the cam lever every month, which is the case of a traditional E61 group.

If someone took the Elizabeth away and gave me a MaraX instead (plus an Osmio!) - Would I complain? No I wouldn't.


----------



## Starred

MediumRoastSteam said:


> They are completely different form factors. The Elizabeth is wider and shallower.


 Yes, that is clear. But would it even be possible to make a machine with an E61 group a lot shallower?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Starred said:


> Yes, that is clear. But would it even be possible to make a machine with an E61 group a lot shallower?


 Depends where you place the tank.... Or the boilers.... 🙂

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/48307-new-ecm-machine-puristika/?do=embed&comment=697612&embedComment=697612&embedDo=findComment


----------



## DavecUK

Yeah it is very small, very neat little machine, easy to forget it's there. I have not fired mine up in a while... Job for the weekend I think.


----------



## Starred

@DavecUK: Your next post will be your grand jubilee 😎 🤗 🍾🥂


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I must say... Even after one month and even given the fact that on the Elizabeth the hot water tap mixes the water from the service boiler with the brew boiler, the taste is still rather awful. 🙂. Maybe it will get better with time, in line with other machines.


----------



## Starred

How does the Elizabeth compare to the ACS Minima?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Starred said:


> How does the Elizabeth compare to the ACS Minima?


 See post 59 in this thread.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/?do=embed&comment=757893&embedComment=757893&embedDo=findComment

Also, there's an extensive in-depth review on both machines.


----------



## Starred

Thanks MRS, very nice comparison.

Seems like the Elizabeth is better suited for my needs


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

On the Lelit Elizabeth, for pre-infusion - specially bloom pre-infusion - make sure you flush the group for at least one second, or until water comes up before pulling a shot. This is only really required after the machine has been idle for a while or first thing after turning on from cold.

Note that, when you do so, water does not come out of the group for the first second. I think this is something related to water contraction when the machine gets cold and expansion when it gets hot, or just water evaporating from the top of the dispersion screen creating a void which needs to be filled up again next time. I'm not sure the reason, all I know is that it happens.

Say you have pre-infusion set to 5 seconds pump run and a total of 10 seconds.
The symptom which is more noticeable when using bloom pre-infusion is that, if there's a void, the needle will raise briefly, to about 1-2 bar and decrease slowly. If you have that void filled up, the pressure will raise further, to around 4-5 bar and decrease slowly. The exact numbers depend on coffee and dose.


----------



## Inspector

Available to pre order again from bella barista.


----------



## profesor_historia

In Spain it can be already purchased for 1190€.

Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


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## ZiggyMarley

Inspector said:


> Available to pre order again from bella barista.


 indeed and the deed is done - one Lelit Elizabeth ordered and paid for...... BB tell me it could be end of next week, if not the week after.

Now i need to find a nice tamper....


----------



## ZiggyMarley

oh and thanks @DavecUk it was your in depth review that swung it - even yesterday someone at BB referred me to it again....... i have certainly been cogitating over it for long enough....


----------



## eamon

ZiggyMarley said:


> indeed and the deed is done - one Lelit Elizabeth ordered and paid for...... BB tell me it could be end of next week, if not the week after.
> 
> Now i need to find a nice tamper....


congrats.
The tamper has to be a PLA481R.
And while you're at it might as well get PL106, PLA301S, PLA3800 and the wooden handle portafilter PLA582W as well 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ZiggyMarley

eamon said:


> The tamper has to be a PLA481R.


 red handle 🤮 any other suggestions.......



eamon said:


> PLA3800


 good call



eamon said:


> PL106


 brush i already have a nice new one - from my previous machine.



eamon said:


> PLA301S


 good call on the jug.

😀


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> good call on the jug.


Get yourself any tamper. Doesn't need to be Lelit. Go for a Motta Competition 58.4mm, they are £26, so quite affordable.

Get a tub of PulyCaf - you'll need for backflushing.

As for naked PF, the Rocket naked PF and the ECM fits very nicely.

Welcome to the club!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Go for a Motta Competition 58.4mm, they are £26


 👍



MediumRoastSteam said:


> Get a tub of PulyCaf - you'll need for backflushing.


 already have from my previous machine unless it goes out of date.......



MediumRoastSteam said:


> As for naked PF, the Rocket naked PF and the ECM fits very nicely.


 that might come later....



MediumRoastSteam said:


> Welcome to the club!


 thanks 👍

i'll need a reasonably priced milk jug and thermometer


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> 👍
> 
> already have from my previous machine unless it goes out of date.......
> 
> that might come later....
> 
> thanks 👍
> 
> i'll need a reasonably priced milk jug and thermometer


 Don't worry about the thermometer, honestly. Just use your hand. If you do decide to get a thermometer, just get a temp tag instead. You can get some cheap milk jugs from Amazon, they are actually good.


----------



## zidane72003

After careful thought (and an update email that my Niche is on its way to arrive) a put also my order today.

To better coffees at home .

First home coffee machine. Very excited.

Thanks the topic and@DavecUK who with his review help a bit more to choose this girl for probably a decade.










Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


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## eamon

haaa! I got the 900g puly caff as well.
But the manual says to back flush once a month with 3-5g of detergent, so I calculate I have 15-25 years supply!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Don't worry about the thermometer, honestly. Just use your hand. If you do decide to get a thermometer, just get a temp tag instead. You can get some cheap milk jugs from Amazon, they are actually good.


 thanks


----------



## zidane72003

Hahahah. Well i probably will use it sometimes also for the full group. When we use it as pros we were putting the group the whole night in a bowl full of water and let them all night but we were selling 3-5 kgs per day.

So yeah we will probably have for a couple of years this powder a guess .

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam

zidane72003 said:


> After careful thought (and an update email that my Niche is on its way to arrive) a put also my order today.
> 
> To better coffees at home
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> First home coffee machine. Very excited.
> 
> Thanks the topic and@DavecUK who with his review help a bit more to choose this girl for probably a decade.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


 If you can, get the Motta completion tamper 58.4mm instead of the 58.0 . He 58.4mm is a much better fit to the stock basket and VST and IMS baskets... the 58.0 will leave a gap around the edge of the basket which will become annoying with time.

give them a ring, they will change for you.

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/motta-competition-tamper-58-4mm-brown-wood-flat-base.html


----------



## zidane72003

Oh alright. Hm i will check with Bella barista and see if they can arrange it. Many thanks for the tip .

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


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## TD66

Another soon to be Elizabeth owner here having just placed a preorder. Will be paired with a Niche. Looking forward to exploring all the features. Like a few others here upgrading from a Sage BE and having seen the big improvements from switching to the Niche can't wait to pair this with the Elizabeth.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

TD66 said:


> Another soon to be Elizabeth owner here having just placed a preorder. Will be paired with a Niche. Looking forward to exploring all the features. Like a few others here upgrading from a Sage BE and having seen the big improvements from switching to the Niche can't wait to pair this with the Elizabeth.


 There are a few of us here with Elizabeth + Niche combo! For what's worth, I have my Niche at the exact same position for the beans I'm having (light roasted Ethiopian, so maybe the Niche is not the best grinder for it). Anyway, 18.3g into a VST 18g, and I get bang on consistent shots, with the Elizabeth... 36s seconds, in the morning. I have even set the timer function, it works wonders!

Of course, there are other factors like humidity, temperature, etc. Thankfully the room the machine is at is rather temp stable (i.e.: unlike the kitchen) but I do notice that in the afternoon the shots run slightly faster by a couple of seconds. But we have two buttons right? So one is configured for the morning, and the other for the afternoon! Or, you can just adjust the Niche slightly (potentially that's the *right* thing to do anyway, but I'm not that fussy). 🙂


----------



## -Mac

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Don't worry about the thermometer, honestly. Just use your hand. If you do decide to get a thermometer, just get a temp tag instead. You can get some cheap milk jugs from Amazon, they are actually good.


 Using your hand can be a bad idea, depending on your tolerance for heat. I used to use my hand but when I did check with a thermometer, I found that what I thought was correct was about 15deg too low, so I wasn't getting the sweetness out of the milk. Since I can't tolerate the heat, I use a thermometer all the time now.


----------



## zidane72003

Might also be a thing the metallic blend from which your jug is made (and hot thin it is).

But of course might be a thing with heat tolerance.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jason11

-Mac said:


> Using your hand can be a bad idea, depending on your tolerance for heat. I used to use my hand but when I did check with a thermometer, I found that what I thought was correct was about 15deg too low, so I wasn't getting the sweetness out of the milk. Since I can't tolerate the heat, I use a thermometer all the time now.


I've done the opposite. I always used to use a thermometer but now just use my hand. Use both together for a while and you'll get a good idea of when you're at the right temperature and then you can do away with the thermometer.

Also I'm not sure milk being 15oC cooler (so around 50oC) would affect the sweetness too much as I always thought it remained the same until @65oC when the milk parts started to separate which was what caused the milk to have less sweetness. I may be wrong though.


----------



## -Mac

Jason11 said:


> I've done the opposite. I always used to use a thermometer but now just use my hand. Use both together for a while and you'll get a good idea of when you're at the right temperature.
> 
> Also I'm not sure milk being 15oC cooler would affect the sweetness too much as I always thought it remained the same until @65oC when the milk parts started to separate which was what caused less sweetness, I may be wrong though.


 Your probably right but I find it tastes better at 65deg than at 50deg and my hand can't go above 50 without pain.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

-Mac said:


> Your probably right but I find it tastes better at 65deg than at 50deg and my hand can't go above 50 without pain.


 Get yourself a temp tag (e.g - I can't stand the thermometer being in the way. Pain in the neck.

https://colourchanging.co.uk/products/milk-frothing-liquid-crystal-barista-thermometer


----------



## -Mac

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Get yourself a temp tag (e.g - I can't stand the thermometer being in the way. Pain in the neck.
> 
> https://colourchanging.co.uk/products/milk-frothing-liquid-crystal-barista-thermometer


 Not until they invent one that can go in a dishwasher. I don't mind the thermometer.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

-Mac said:


> Not until they invent one that can go in a dishwasher. I don't mind the thermometer.


 Dishwasher is overrated. 🙂 - Looks like you know what you want then 👍


----------



## -Mac

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Dishwasher is overrated. 🙂


 Not for the chronically lazy


----------



## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Get yourself a temp tag (e.g - I can't stand the thermometer being in the way. Pain in the neck.
> 
> https://colourchanging.co.uk/products/milk-frothing-liquid-crystal-barista-thermometer


 are they accurate? is there a temperature difference between the outside surface of the jug and actual milk? or does it take that into account through its calibration?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> are they accurate? is there a temperature difference between the outside surface of the jug and actual milk? or does it take that into account through its calibration?


 Suppose as accurate as a thermometer can be? With the thermometer, sometimes they are so slow that you need to know when to stop in order to reach your goal. So, say, for milk, you need to stop around 58C in order to reach 65C. (Just as an example, does't mean that 58C is the magic number).


----------



## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Suppose as accurate as a thermometer can be? With the thermometer, sometimes they are so slow that you need to know when to stop in order to reach your goal. So, say, for milk, you need to stop around 58C in order to reach 65C. (Just as an example, does't mean that 58C is the magic number).


 I get what you mean


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Quick update for any current or prospective owners:

- If you think the portafilter is not locking at a safe position (safe position = near or at 6 o'clock) then it might be the screw holding the shower screen is too tight: undo it all, give it a good clean, and squeeze, with your fingers, the group gasket, maki g sure it's all nice and snug. Put everything back in place, but only tighten the screw until it's holding the shower screen snug and it doesn't rotate. That's it. Test it out, make sure the PF locks at the right place. Make a coffee and, it should lock in the same place again!

- don't bother with silicone gaskets or fancy IMS shower screens. I found they add no real benefit to this type of group.

- if you are getting pucks which stick to the shower screen, due to a fine grind (light roasts, VST baskets)... relax when unlocking the portafilter! Don't try to hold it level with the group whilst disengaging. Just disengage it, holding the handle towards the end and loosely, and turn it all the way. Let gravity do its thing. One puck, in one piece, which can easily be knocked into the knock box.

- for consistent timed results and consistent bloom pre-infusions, rinse the group for one second before pulling a shot.

- The machine does not come with a tamper. A good 58.4mm or 58.5mm will do the job nicely.

and that's it. Enjoy the machine!


----------



## ZiggyMarley

Motta Competition Tamper - tick arrived

Milk jug - tick arrived

Pullycaff - tick arrived

need a thermometer,

bottomless portafilter?


----------



## ZiggyMarley

@MediumRoastSteam @DavecUK

Quick question about the Elizabeth - on the BB website the dimensions are given as "38x31x27cms" I assume looking at pictures of the machine these are 38 Wide x 31 High and 27 Deep?

or is it 38 high and 31 wide?

I will need to adjust one of two shelves and which one depends on the height and width!

I checked the manual and it isnt entirely clear as I think they may have retained Italian abbreviations for at least some of what we know as WxHxD

TIA


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

It is: 38cm high, 27cm deep and 31cm wide.

If I were you I'd add an extra 1cm or 2cm to those as the machine comes with a kettle style plug where you connect a lead at the back. And the on/off and steam knobs on the sides. The tank is at the top of the machine too.


----------



## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> It is: 38cm high, 27cm deep and 31cm wide.
> 
> If I were you I'd add an extra 1cm or 2cm to those as the machine comes with a kettle style plug where you connect a lead at the back. And the on/off and steam knobs on the sides. The tank is at the top of the machine too.


 thanks - depth isnt an issue as i have extra worktops where it is going. It is just juggling a shelf to accommodate the width..../height

👍


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> thanks - depth isnt an issue as i have extra worktops where it is going. It is just juggling a shelf to accommodate the width..../height
> 
> 👍


 OK. Treat those measurements as 28cm and 32cm (depth x width) then. Just in case!


----------



## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> OK. Treat those measurements as 28cm and 32cm (depth x width) then. Just in case!


 yes - height isnt an issue (have about 50cm) - but i'll chop about 10cm off of a shelf to give me 35 wide


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> yes - height isnt an issue (have about 50cm) - but i'll chop about 10cm off of a shelf to give me 35 wide


 Just make sure you have room so you can turn that steam tap on/off! 🙂


----------



## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Just make sure you have room so you can turn that steam tap on/off! 🙂


 the right hand side is open to the world - so no access issues there.

As for on/off on the left, i will be using an internet switch.... but 35cm width (for the lelit alone) should give me ample space to access the on/off


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> the right hand side is open to the world - so no access issues there.
> 
> As for on/off on the left, i will be using an internet switch.... but 35cm width (for the lelit alone) should give me ample space to access the on/off


 absolutely. personally, the machine heats up so fast that I'd not bother with an internet switch (I don't). 35cm is plenty of space. All you need is to be able to slide your finger on the switch, that's it.


----------



## ZiggyMarley

job done a Lelit Elizabeth shaped gap - same location as all my espresso machines have lived, just the Lelit is wider.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

For the sake of transparency, I have asked one of the moderators of this forum to hide a post I made a couple of months ago. It showed my machine, a brand new Elizabeth, with a Cafelat red gasket and an IMS CI 200 MI shower screen. After a lot of experimentation and usage, I found that those things are not beneficial at all for this machine. See post 215 just above this one.

In the interest of not misguiding visitors and members of this forum, I have asked for it to be removed from view.

The subsequent post from DavecUK comments that "it looks nice". Well, it looked, because the post he refers to is no longer visible. 😉

Thanks for the understanding.

and for clarity... it now looks like this (exactly as it came from the factory)


----------



## TD66

just had my FedEx delivery confirmation through for the Elizabeth so looks like those of us with preorders will be getting a welcome delivery tomorrow!


----------



## zidane72003

Same here. According to emai tomorrow will be arrived.

Excited...i will catch up with lockdown v2 whenever that happens 😁.


----------



## ZiggyMarley

yep mine appears to on its way as well 😀


----------



## eamon

Did my first clean with detergent (puly caff) at the weekend, so a backflush with water only, a bf with detergent and a bf with water again. followed by some throw away coffee.

This week some how the pump sounds more 'rattly' (not sure if I'm imaging it. coffee is same as before). Any thoughts?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

eamon said:


> Did my first clean with detergent (puly caff) at the weekend, so a backflush with water only, a bf with detergent and a bf with water again. followed by some throw away coffee.
> 
> This week some how the pump sounds more 'rattly' (not sure if I'm imaging it. coffee is same as before). Any thoughts?


 Skip the water backflush. There's no reason to do this. Go straight to detergent backflush, and then backflush with water afterwards if you really want to. Or, if you want to be pragmatic and efficient, do what DavecUK says in his review. 🙂

Pump sounding rattly: No. A backflush cannot cause that. The reason why is that the hose is rattling inside the tank. As a test, open the tank compartment and position them away from the wall of the tank or hold them: The rattle will go away. The main culprit is the little gauze at the end of the inlet hose. You can simply remove that if you want.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

So, today is the day then ? 🥳 - Christmas coming early for you!


----------



## eamon

Thanks MRS, refilled (removed) the water tank this morning, seems ok again.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

eamon said:


> Thanks MRS, refilled (removed) the water tank this morning, seems ok again.


 Yep! More water, more floating, less rattling 🙂. You do notice the machine gets rattly as the water level in the tank goes past halfway. On mine, I have extended the hose further by splicing another piece of silicone hose with a teflon tube which O.D. is equal to the I.D of the hose. The extension now touches the bottom of the tank and the gauze just sits there. No more crazy rattling 🙂


----------



## TD66

MediumRoastSteam said:


> So, today is the day then ? 🥳 - Christmas coming early for you!


 It is and it's arrived! Unfortunately not going to be home till later but nice knowing it's waiting for me! 😀


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

For all the new owners and prospective owners, before you even turn the machine on, I strongly recommend you read and watch @DavecUK's review of this machine, linked in the first post. Including the advanced settings part. Presumably you already did that and that's one of the reasons you bought the machine, but just a reminder, just in case. 🙂 - Enjoy!

Edit: And looks like it's out of stock again!


----------



## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> For all the new owners and prospective owners, before you even turn the machine on, I strongly recommend you read and watch @DavecUK's review of this machine, linked in the first post. Including the advanced settings part. Presumably you already did that and that's one of the reasons you bought the machine, but just a reminder, just in case. 🙂 - Enjoy!
> 
> Edit: And looks like it's out of stock again!


 already done - several times.

Mine is here - still working from home mainly, so i'll get to unpack after lunch.


----------



## ZiggyMarley

so first shot, some beans roasted medium-light yesterday for pour-over...... choked the grinder on an espresso settting - wasnt very tasty. Second shot, used the beans BB kindly put in the box.... better, nice espresso a bit under extracted, probably needs to be a bit finer....... nicely built machine....


----------



## ZiggyMarley

next shot - slightly finer grind - could possibly go finer - good espresso though. Made a latte (no art!) for the wife - turned out good - she was happy, and you could get the sweetness coming from the milk. I like this machine - even in a few hours it has put the joy back into coffee....

@MediumRoastSteam you were right - it does heat up quickly!

Need a milk thermometer, tamping mat and a knock box might be useful.


----------



## TD66

So finally got everything setup and pulled the first few shots. Still waiting for my VST basket to arrived so been using the lelit basket. Managed to get some fairly decent shots out already which is great. Tried one with pre infusion which completely failed so need to check my settings there. But very impressed so far. And steam wand is another level (or 3!) on the barista express!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

TD66 said:


> So finally got everything setup and pulled the first few shots. Still waiting for my VST basket to arrived so been using the lelit basket. Managed to get some fairly decent shots out already which is great. Tried one with pre infusion which completely failed so need to check my settings there. But very impressed so far. And steam wand is another level (or 3!) on the barista express!


 Glad to hear it! Pre-infusion is so cool. Once you get the gist it works wonders. Aim for the overall shot time to be about the same (maybe a few seconds longer?) - and you'd need to grind slightly finer too. See what works for you.


----------



## ZiggyMarley

a tamping mat my wife insisted i buy









hmm why is this upside down...... it is ok on my PC.


----------



## Inspector

is it a cat or a Bat? 😂


----------



## ZiggyMarley

Inspector said:


> cat


 cat


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

For anyone interested in metrics, I just backflushed the machine as per DavecUK's recommendation in his review:

- 2 times 6 seconds "rinsing" (two top buttons pressed together)
- machine's backflushing auto program (top + bottom buttons pressed in sequence).

The total amount of water used was approx. *250ml*.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Bella Barista decided to increase the price of the Elizabeth to £1,149 (£50 increase), currently sold out.

La Macchina Del Caffe (https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/lelit.html) has it in stock for €1,040. (£946). I hear nothing but great service from them, and they ship to the UK very fast. The Elizabeth has a kettle style plug, so just buy a new one from Amazon (if you do, buy one which is right angled, so machine is flush against the wall) for £5 and Bob is your uncle. No need for adapters!


----------



## Inspector

Tempted but doesnt say if it is V3. I might email them and ask.


----------



## Rickster1978

Can you update if it is the v3. Could be tempted.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Inspector, very confident it is. @eamon bought from them I believe.


----------



## eamon

eamon said:


> My machine was made July 2020 and has v505.
> There was a leaflet with the new features, I'll try to upload tomorrow.
> It comes with a cheap plastic tamper. To avoid confusion the red tamper and wooden handle porta filter in my photo were bought as extras.
> For other eu buyers, I got mine from https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk





MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Inspector, very confident it is. @eamon bought from them I believe.


 Yes, was V3 as you say. Quoted original post above (is V505a to be more specific).


----------



## Rickster1978

eamon said:


> Yes, was V3 as you say. Quoted original post above (is V505a to be more specific).


 Are you based in the UK Eamon? Just wondering if anyone has used this company and had their machine shipped to the UK yet?


----------



## eamon

No, I'm based in Ireland (I've updated my profile). Was shipped with DHL express (tracked)


----------



## Inspector

How much they charged to post it Ireland?


----------



## eamon

€18 for shipping, express courier 1-5 days. "Only Spare parts"

(this included the machine & a bunch of accessories)


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Another thing I noticed with this machine: A 2 second rinse of the group after your session cleans the shower screen quite nicely!

I often use a sponge cloth to clean the group after my espresso shot, without rinsing/flushing the group, and there's quite a lot of grounds on the shower screen that you can then see in the cloth after wiping.

I have since been rinsing the group for 2 seconds and cleaning the screen afterwards, and my cloth comes back pretty clean.


----------



## TD66

I have noticed it is does seem fairly good at cleaning itself with a short burst of water through the group. Makes it a bit easier to keep clean.

Been discovering the delights of bloom pre infusion today. Have been messing with the steam pre infusion over the last few days but tried bloom today and it has transformed the flavours I was getting. Amazing how it can change so dramatically. Love how easy it is to just disable the steam and then reactivate for milk steaming.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

TD66 said:


> I have noticed it is does seem fairly good at cleaning itself with a short burst of water through the group. Makes it a bit easier to keep clean.
> 
> Been discovering the delights of bloom pre infusion today. Have been messing with the steam pre infusion over the last few days but tried bloom today and it has transformed the flavours I was getting. Amazing how it can change so dramatically. Love how easy it is to just disable the steam and then reactivate for milk steaming.


 I couldn't agree more. One of the hidden gems! Dave said that some coffees benefit from bloom pre-infusion, some benefit from steam pre-infusion. I think the coffee I'm drinking at the moment (Ethiopian from Foundry) benefits from bloom pre-infusion. Currently doing a 4s pump / 9s total.

When you do your bloom pre-infusion, how long are you activating the pump for? And how long is the pre-infusion time? Keep an eye on the manometer, you don't want it to go too high (like, you don't want to go up to 9 bar and back).

I already posted here, but if you flush the group before hand (because then the water filled the voids of the dispersion screen + shower screen) the pressure will ramp up faster compared to if you left the machine idle for 5 minutes or warming up.

So, to keep consistent, I always flush the group for 1 second before pulling a shot if I'm using bloom pre-infusion.

Also note that the ideal scenario for pre-infusion is that the pre-infusion ends when the first drop of coffee drops in the cup. 😉


----------



## TD66

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I couldn't agree more. One of the hidden gems! Dave said that some coffees benefit from bloom pre-infusion, some benefit from steam pre-infusion. I think the coffee I'm drinking at the moment (Ethiopian from Foundry) benefits from bloom pre-infusion. Currently doing a 4s pump / 9s total.
> 
> When you do your bloom pre-infusion, how long are you activating the pump for? And how long is the pre-infusion time? Keep an eye on the manometer, you don't want it to go too high (like, you don't want to go up to 9 bar and back).
> 
> I already posted here, but if you flush the group before hand (because then the water filled the voids of the dispersion screen + shower screen) the pressure will ramp up faster compared to if you left the machine idle for 5 minutes or warming up.
> 
> So, to keep consistent, I always flush the group for 1 second before pulling a shot if I'm using bloom pre-infusion.
> 
> Also note that the ideal scenario for pre-infusion is that the pre-infusion ends when the first drop of coffee drops in the cup. 😉


 Was the first time I played with it today so still a lot of tweaking to do. Think I was also a little too fine with the grind so will go slightly coarser to aim for the first drop at end of infusion approach.

the best result I've had so far was 3 seconds of pump and then 9 seconds so 12 seconds total but again haven't tweaked much yet. Useful tip re the short flush. I did notice pressure wasn't that high during initial pump run which that would help with.


----------



## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> When you do your bloom pre-infusion, how long are you activating the pump for?


 I am using the default settings.



MediumRoastSteam said:


> So, to keep consistent, I always flush the group for 1 second before pulling a shot if I'm using bloom pre-infusion.


 tried that, didn't make any noticeable difference for me.



MediumRoastSteam said:


> Also note that the ideal scenario for pre-infusion is that the pre-infusion ends when the first drop of coffee drops in the cup


 yes that is what I'm getting on the default pre-infusion settings


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Paul_from_Oz - welcome to the forum and to a new Lelit Elizabeth.

I'll put your original post here for reference:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/55180-elizabeth-new-user-questions/?do=embed

And, in essence you say:

- you watched DavecUK's review and started with a 16g dose.
- pours are too fast. You are grinding finer and you are reaching the limits of your grinder, a Macap M2M.
- as you go finer, the pucks are getting stuck to the shower screen.

Best thing you can do to get a shot on time;

- Increase the dose to 18g;
- make sure your basket is properly prepared: dose, distribute and tamp well.
- Avoid single dosing (if you are doing so) as you'd need to grind finer. Given you are near the limits, best to operate the grinder as intended.
- if the pressure on the dial is at 10 bar, leave it alone. That's the default factory setting.

Which brings me to stuck pucks. And, I tell you, it drove me mad, for a at least a month. I even went back to my retailer (Bella Barista), to show them. Every puck was stuck. Got there, used their grinder, and guess what? Nothing. Not a single one. I was there for hours. Everything the same, except the grinder. I even tried a chocker (grinding very fine), and no stuck pucks. So, I have to say, the grinder and the coffee used do have an influence on that outcome.

I have fixed the stuck pucks problem though. For reference, I'm using a Niche Zero, VST 18g and light roasts which require a fine grind. 
The trick, at least for me, was on how you disengage the portafilter. I was, without realising, always trying to keeping levelled with the gasket, so suspecting a vacum was formed until the very last moment. Check the post below. That fixed for me.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/?do=embed&comment=777922&embedComment=777922&embedDo=findComment


----------



## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> stuck pucks


 had that once with the Elizabeth, and from memory it was a puck that I gently tampered. I tend to tamp quite firmly.


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Avoid single dosing (if you are doing so) as you'd need to grind finer. Given you are near the limits, best to operate the grinder as intended.


 Could you elaborate? I'd be interested to know the thinking behind this.

And thanks all for the tips so far. I'll bump up the dosing in the morning and see how we go!

By the way, what's the procedure for adjusting the OPV? (Out of curiosity. My unit sits dead on 10bar with the blind basket.)


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Paul_from_Oz said:


> Could you elaborate? I'd be interested to know the thinking behind this.
> 
> And thanks all for the tips so far. I'll bump up the dosing in the morning and see how we go!
> 
> By the way, what's the procedure for adjusting the OPV? (Out of curiosity. My unit sits dead on 10bar with the blind basket.)


 OPV: you take the top off and adjust the screw of the OPV. I don't know if it's clockwise or anti-clockwise. mine sits dead on 10bar.

Single dosing: commercials adapted for home grinders are designed to run with a weight of beans on top of the burr. I'm no expert, and don't know the exact whys and why nots. But that's been my experience. You need to adjust the grinder to grind finer if you single dose compared to not single dosing. And your grinder may not even be suitable for it, unless you can get all the grinds out and make sure nothing is left behind inside the burr chamber.


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

Well, progress has been made. 18g to 18.5g seems to be the working dose with my present beans, and the pour has definitely slowed to a more suitable rate.

With this coffee load, the tamped coffee bed sits about level with the ridge in the basket. It makes a formed puck, a bit wet on top, and the puck drops out of the basket with little effort. Does this seem reasonable?

I don't know my tamping effort force in numbers. I place a fairly dense rubber mat under the portafilter when tamping, and press down until I feel the tamper pushing back.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Paul_from_Oz said:


> Well, progress has been made. 18g to 18.5g seems to be the working dose with my present beans, and the pour has definitely slowed to a more suitable rate.
> 
> With this coffee load, the tamped coffee bed sits about level with the ridge in the basket. It makes a formed puck, a bit wet on top, and the puck drops out of the basket with little effort. Does this seem reasonable?
> 
> I don't know my tamping effort force in numbers. I place a fairly dense rubber mat under the portafilter when tamping, and press down until I feel the tamper pushing back.


 If it tastes good, and it works well... success!


----------



## MichaelKusnadi

@MediumRoastSteam 
Hi, Im new here, and seeing that you have had experience with loads of espresso machines, I just wanted to ask for your opinion on it a bit if you dont mind, right now Im deciding between a few machines being the elizabeth, the profitec 300 or a rocket appartamento or a hx in that category.

I just wanted to ask your opinions on these machines, because this is going to be my first espresso machine and I've never really handled anything before. Was there a reason why you chose the elizabeth over the pro 300? Is it because of the ability for pre infusion?

Ive been trying to research alot this past week and I also dont know if having an e61 would actually change anything for me? Other than that I was thinking about the convenience (with less warm up time) with the pro 300 and elizabeth and that was the main differing factor, because I honestly really like the aesthetics of the rocket machine.

I would love to get a little bit of your opinion on this, and anyone else's opinion as well would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!


----------



## zidane72003

GM lads. Hope you are well and healthy.

Still trying to make pre-infusion without the steam boiler on with a bloom phase. Closing the steam and putting some more fine cut setting in my niche as per Dave's video. I don't know y but the needle remains stuck at 0.

I am putting the same grams (16.5-16.8)in my group however with any button (but 1 preinf time setted at 7" and 2 setted at 10"). But the needle just not move from 0 bar for 10(or7)secs. Do u think i might need to change the gram dose?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

zidane72003 said:


> GM lads. Hope you are well and healthy.
> 
> Still trying to make pre-infusion without the steam boiler on with a bloom phase. Closing the steam and putting some more fine cut setting in my niche as per Dave's video. I don't know y but the needle remains stuck at 0.
> 
> I am putting the same grams (16.5-16.8)in my group however with any button (but 1 preinf time setted at 7" and 2 setted at 10"). But the needle just not move from 0 bar for 10(or7)secs. Do u think i might need to change the gram dose?
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


 How long is the pump on for for the bloom phase pre-infusion? Should be 5 seconds or so. If you do a shot without pre-infusion, how many seconds until the needle move? Should be about 5 seconds or so, depending if you had rinsed the group or not before hand.

let me know and we go from there.


----------



## zidane72003

Hi@MediumRoastSteam . Thanks for the interest.

I might understand what i am doing wrong.

It seems i HAVE to open the steam boiler and close it just prior the shot. I was not doing it like that.l till now

I had the delusion () that the machine will do the bloom pre infu without the steam boiler open AT ALL.

So my routine was:

1)opening the lelit.

2) closing the steam boiler (E symbol)

3) rinse some water

4) take the shot.

So i was waiting that the pump preinfusion would worked without the steam boiler open AT all (which now by rereading and by rechecking the videp)is not the case. You have to open the steam boiler and close it prior.the bloom preinf. I will try and take now the shot and let you know if i understand correctly the process of the pump pre inf.

Sorry if i wasnt clear enough previously (English is not my mother language and i am afraid i m losing some details in reading and when I'm trying to explain some situations ).

Edit:no it's not the above. The pump time(and the 5" can be fixed in the advance menu?(have not touched that). Edit:yes it's in the advance menu which after 2 weeks have not touched yet. So ignore all the above. Will check the advance and update it and after that i will come back. This machine...is so great. So many stuff to cheat and play with. Just so happy i picked it.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

zidane72003 said:


> Hi@MediumRoastSteam . Thanks for the interest.
> 
> I might understand what i am doing wrong.
> 
> It seems i HAVE to open the steam boiler and close it just prior the shot. I was not doing it like that.l till now
> 
> I had the delusion (      ) that the machine will do the bloom pre infu without the steam boiler open AT ALL.
> 
> So my routine was:
> 
> 1)opening the lelit.
> 
> 2) closing the steam boiler (E symbol)
> 
> 3) rinse some water
> 
> 4) take the shot.
> 
> So i was waiting that the pump preinfusion would worked without the steam boiler open AT all (which now by rereading and by rechecking the videp)is not the case. You have to open the steam boiler and close it prior.the bloom preinf. I will try and take now the shot and let you know if i understand correctly the process of the pump pre inf.
> 
> Sorry if i wasnt clear enough previously (English is not my mother language and i am afraid i m losing some details in reading and when I'm trying to explain some situations     ).
> 
> Edit:no it's not the above. The pump time(and the 5" can be fixed in the advance menu?(have not touched that). Edit:yes it's in the advance menu which after 2 weeks have not touched yet. So ignore all the above. Will check the advance and update it and after that i will come back. This machine...is so great. So many stuff to cheat and play with. Just so happy i picked it.
> 
> Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


 No worries.

go to he first post of this thread and read and watch those videos. There's a special one for advanced settings. It's a must. ????

I think, the factory setting for steam ore-infusion is 1 second (too little). And for bloom ore-infusion is 2 seconds (again, too little). Best to stick to Dave's recommended settings if you want to have any benefit of this functionality at all. @ZiggyMarley - FYI.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

MichaelKusnadi said:


> @MediumRoastSteam
> Hi, Im new here, and seeing that you have had experience with loads of espresso machines, I just wanted to ask for your opinion on it a bit if you dont mind, right now Im deciding between a few machines being the elizabeth, the profitec 300 or a rocket appartamento or a hx in that category.
> 
> I just wanted to ask your opinions on these machines, because this is going to be my first espresso machine and I've never really handled anything before. Was there a reason why you chose the elizabeth over the pro 300? Is it because of the ability for pre infusion?
> 
> Ive been trying to research alot this past week and I also dont know if having an e61 would actually change anything for me? Other than that I was thinking about the convenience (with less warm up time) with the pro 300 and elizabeth and that was the main differing factor, because I honestly really like the aesthetics of the rocket machine.
> 
> I would love to get a little bit of your opinion on this, and anyone else's opinion as well would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!


 The Apartmento is a very simplistic HX. I don't understand the fuss, but some like its looks. Just remember it's an HX machine. If you are happy with how it works (cooling flushes etc) - then by all means consider. But if you do, take a look at other HX machines like the Lelit MaraX or the ECM machines. I briefly owned a Rocket HX machine (Cellini) and didn't get on with it at all, which I swapped for a Pro-700 shortly afterwards.

Now, on the dual boiler territory.

I agonised under the Profitec-300 vs Elizabeth for a while too. In the end, I'm glad I chose the Elizabeth. Both machines are well built from what I researched on the Pro-300 and checking the Elizabeth myself.

To me, the Pro-300 is just a bit... Dated and expensive. In its current form, it had its time. I'm sure it was a great machine 3 years ago, but with the Elizabeth, why would you choose the Pro-300, unless you really appreciate the Profitec brand (I think it's great!) and like an old-school machine?

The Profitec is very bulky compared to the Elizabeth. Watching some Pro-300 videos, it doesn't seem that much better laid-out internally than the Lelit. The Profitec has a PID to control temperature, and a pressure stat to control pressure... Why? I really don't understand why they chose to do that rather than a temperature probe. The P-300 operates at 126C (around 1.3-1.4bar pressure for steaming) whereas the Elizabeth operates around 2bar pressure, at 140C. Other Profitec/ECM DB machines also operate around 2bar these days. Looks like the Pro-300 was left behind. This alone puts me off of choosing the Pro-300.

The Elizabeth has far more features (pre-infusion, better steaming). The Elizabeth, unlike the Pro-300, has push-fit PTFE (teflon) tubes instead of metal pipes. Personally, I don't think that's detrimental (now that I understand more about it), but that made me think twice about the Elizabeth, and I'm glad I did. 🙂

The Elizabeth hot water tap mixes cold water from the tank and the steam (service) boiler inside the brew boiler, so the water is just below boiling point. This means, no spluttering. Personally, I prefer the old school approach of forcing water through pressure like the Profitec 300. The main purpose of the tap is to drain the boiler. You can do the same on both, so not a big deal.

So, in summary, the P-300 is a more traditionally built dual boiler which lacks innovation. It's just... yeah, yo old school stuff. You may like that, and that's a decision you'll have to make. The Lelit is more advanced and, in my opinion, a far better and superior machine. It wouldn't surprise me if Profitec decides to refresh the Pro-300 sometime next year and upgrade it to be more up to date with the competition. This was another reason why I didn't choose it.

Hope that helps!

PS: I went from an Profitec-700 to a La Pavoni to the Elizabeth. Why? I value fast heat up time. It's important to me because I want to turn the machine on, wait 15 minutes and have a coffee. I don't want to wait 45 minutes. But if you can leave the machine on all day, or plan when you want to have your coffees, then an E61 can work well too. I'd stay away from an HX (with the exception of the MaraX) though, unless you don't mind cooling flushes.


----------



## Gary5709

Awaiting delivery of my new Elizabeth tomorrow and very excited to finally upgrade to a dual boiler. I'm keen to try VST baskets with this and wondered if anyone has any good advice? Ridged or ridgeless is my first question. I'm used to using around 17-18g in my old Sage Duo temp so was going to go with the 18g size.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Gary5709 said:


> Awaiting delivery of my new Elizabeth tomorrow and very excited to finally upgrade to a dual boiler. I'm keen to try VST baskets with this and wondered if anyone has any good advice? Ridged or ridgeless is my first question. I'm used to using around 17-18g in my old Sage Duo temp so was going to go with the 18g size.
> 
> Any feedback would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks


 For home, VST ridgeless. I use an 18g daily. 
You'll also need a 58.4 or 58.5mm tamper.


----------



## MichaelKusnadi

MediumRoastSteam said:


> The Apartmento is a very simplistic HX. I don't understand the fuss, but some like its looks. Just remember it's an HX machine. If you are happy with how it works (cooling flushes etc) - then by all means consider. But if you do, take a look at other HX machines like the Lelit MaraX or the ECM machines. I briefly owned a Rocket HX machine (Cellini) and didn't get on with it at all, which I swapped for a Pro-700 shortly afterwards.
> 
> Now, on the dual boiler territory.
> 
> I agonised under the Profitec-300 vs Elizabeth for a while too. In the end, I'm glad I chose the Elizabeth. Both machines are well built from what I researched on the Pro-300 and checking the Elizabeth myself.
> 
> To me, the Pro-300 is just a bit... Dated and expensive. In its current form, it had its time. I'm sure it was a great machine 3 years ago, but with the Elizabeth, why would you choose the Pro-300, unless you really appreciate the Profitec brand (I think it's great!) and like an old-school machine?
> 
> The Profitec is very bulky compared to the Elizabeth. Watching some Pro-300 videos, it doesn't seem that much better laid-out internally than the Lelit. The Profitec has a PID to control temperature, and a pressure stat to control pressure... Why? I really don't understand why they chose to do that rather than a temperature probe. The P-300 operates at 126C (around 1.3-1.4bar pressure for steaming) whereas the Elizabeth operates around 2bar pressure, at 140C. Other Profitec/ECM DB machines also operate around 2bar these days. Looks like the Pro-300 was left behind. This alone puts me off of choosing the Pro-300.
> 
> The Elizabeth has far more features (pre-infusion, better steaming). The Elizabeth, unlike the Pro-300, has push-fit PTFE (teflon) tubes instead of metal pipes. Personally, I don't think that's detrimental (now that I understand more about it), but that made me think twice about the Elizabeth, and I'm glad I did. 🙂
> 
> The Elizabeth hot water tap mixes cold water from the tank and the steam (service) boiler inside the brew boiler, so the water is just below boiling point. This means, no spluttering. Personally, I prefer the old school approach of forcing water through pressure like the Profitec 300. The main purpose of the tap is to drain the boiler. You can do the same on both, so not a big deal.
> 
> So, in summary, the P-300 is a more traditionally built dual boiler which lacks innovation. It's just... yeah, yo old school stuff. You may like that, and that's a decision you'll have to make. The Lelit is more advanced and, in my opinion, a far better and superior machine. It wouldn't surprise me if Profitec decides to refresh the Pro-300 sometime next year and upgrade it to be more up to date with the competition. This was another reason why I didn't choose it.
> 
> Hope that helps!
> 
> PS: I went from an Profitec-700 to a La Pavoni to the Elizabeth. Why? I value fast heat up time. It's important to me because I want to turn the machine on, wait 15 minutes and have a coffee. I don't want to wait 45 minutes. But if you can leave the machine on all day, or plan when you want to have your coffees, then an E61 can work well too. I'd stay away from an HX (with the exception of the MaraX) though, unless you don't mind cooling flushes.


 Thank you so much for that long and informative reply!

Im almost set on the Elizabeth now, after researching and knowing how much quieter it is, furthermore its around $250 cheaper than the profitec 300 where im at, did you ever have any experience with hx machines, seems like theyre just more tedious to use but they have e61, not sure the advantage of it except for looks?

Yea I really think the fast heat up time is great so I can just make coffee anytime and if there is sudden guests its much easier to do, hows the steam pressure for back to back drinks on the elizabeth because I mostly drink milk drinks. Also the MaraX seems to have a mod for pressure profiling what do you think of that?

Furthermore would you think the Eureka Mignon Specialista would be a good grinder for it? or would you reccomend others?

Finally based on your usage so far, is there anything that you feel is a neccesity to change? Such as shower screens, bottomless filters, etc.? Also is there a way to know if your version is V3 or V2 in the manual or such would you know?

Thanks again so much this has been so helpful!


----------



## Gary5709

MediumRoastSteam said:


> For home, VST ridgeless. I use an 18g daily.
> You'll also need a 58.4 or 58.5mm tamper.


 Thanks for the advice. I've already got a 58mm tamper ready to go so would it make that much difference? I've always used a Motta 53mm with the duo temp pro which was a tiny bit smaller than the basket.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

MichaelKusnadi said:


> Thank you so much for that long and informative reply!
> 
> Im almost set on the Elizabeth now, after researching and knowing how much quieter it is, furthermore its around $250 cheaper than the profitec 300 where im at, did you ever have any experience with hx machines, seems like theyre just more tedious to use but they have e61, not sure the advantage of it except for looks?
> 
> Yea I really think the fast heat up time is great so I can just make coffee anytime and if there is sudden guests its much easier to do, hows the steam pressure for back to back drinks on the elizabeth because I mostly drink milk drinks. Also the MaraX seems to have a mod for pressure profiling what do you think of that?
> 
> Furthermore would you think the Eureka Mignon Specialista would be a good grinder for it? or would you reccomend others?
> 
> Finally based on your usage so far, is there anything that you feel is a neccesity to change? Such as shower screens, bottomless filters, etc.? Also is there a way to know if your version is V3 or V2 in the manual or such would you know?
> 
> Thanks again so much this has been so helpful!


 I had a brief experience with HX machine. A Rocket Cellini (first paragraph in my reply to you). As stated, I didn't have a good experience and cooling flushes were not my thing. I very much prefer to show up to the machine and pull a shot, knowing the machine has regulated the temperature for me. Apart from the MaraX, no other HX machine can do that to date.

steam pressure, etc... did you open the link on the first post of this thread and read DavecUK review? Did you watch the videos? If you haven't, I'd highly recommend you do. Back to back drinks steam pressure is not a problem. I actually make two every morning, and have made four in a row before. No issue!

You should *really *read this thread.... you are asking questions which have already beeen answered. Mine is a V3. Display says version 5.05a upon turning the machine on. Also, any machine made after the first of July is V3.

in terms of accessories: I'd recommend you change the basket to an IMS or VST, whichever you prefer. The stock basket is poorly made (like many stock baskets).

you'll need a tamper, as the machine does not come with one. A 58.4mm fits the bill nicely. As per a previous post 😂 - I found that the CI200MI shower screen and a Cafelat 8mm silicone gasket (red) brought no benefit to my experience, not to this type of group at least, to the point I have actually reverted to the stock configuration.

with regards to the grinder Eureka Mignon Specialità: you should be good. I never owned one, but from what I read it's a fine grinder which should last you years. I own a Niche: Great grinder, no retention and single dose if that's your thing.

as per the MaraX... there's a bread on this forum called "MaraX". You might want to read that tread: warning:.. much longer then this one. 😊. Ps: I'm unaware of a *pressure* profiling mod for the MaraX. I am, however, aware that some fitted a *flow* profiling kit fitted to the group, similar to the stock configuration of the Lelit Bianca.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Gary5709 said:


> Thanks for the advice. I've already got a 58mm tamper ready to go so would it make that much difference? I've always used a Motta 53mm with the duo temp pro which was a tiny bit smaller than the basket.





Gary5709 said:


> Thanks for the advice. I've already got a 58mm tamper ready to go so would it make that much difference? I've always used a Motta 53mm with the duo temp pro which was a tiny bit smaller than the basket.


 If it works for you, then great. I found annoying to always have those coffee grinds stuck to the side of the basket when tamping. The good thing is that, because you already have a tamper, you are good to go. Get your machine, use it, learn it, get to know it and then add some accessories. Looks like you are all set. 👍


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## Gary5709

MediumRoastSteam said:


> If it works for you, then great. I found annoying to always have those coffee grinds stuck to the side of the basket when tamping. The good thing is that, because you already have a tamper, you are good to go. Get your machine, use it, learn it, get to know it and then add some accessories. Looks like you are all set. 👍


 Cool, I understand what you mean about the grinds round the edges. I've experienced that too. It never really bothered me too much so hopefully it won't but at least now what I need if it annoys me. Looking forward to trying to get the hang of the Lelit!


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## zidane72003

Bloom phase ok. Great difference. Think also my coffee gains more flavour and body by the pump pre inf.

I made all the changes Dave propose at his review. Only thing is a little bit annoying is the unstable (after a shot mainly) temp. Now after a shot seems like is going down 4-5 celcium till restore to the pre set temp (got mine at 92-after taking the shot temp is playing to 87-88 and then play a bit 91-92 for a total of 30-40". Hope is normal).

Machine is really fantastic. Will order my vst basket and think i am ready.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam

zidane72003 said:


> Bloom phase ok. Great difference. Think also my coffee gains more flavour and body by the pump pre inf.
> 
> I made all the changes Dave propose at his review. Only thing is a little bit annoying is the unstable (after a shot mainly) temp. Now after a shot seems like is going down 4-5 celcium till restore to the pre set temp (got mine at 92-after taking the shot temp is playing to 87-88 and then play a bit 91-92 for a total of 30-40". Hope is normal).
> 
> Machine is really fantastic. Will order my vst basket and think i am ready.
> 
> Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


 Mine is the same. I used to have a Profitec 700 and it did exactly the same. This is to do with where the temperature probe is placed at inside the boiler (i.e.: near the top) so it will get any fluctuations of cold water which just got in. From what I read (and there's a video of thermal stability of the Elizabeth on the Russian forum) as the guy was measuring the temperature with a device to mimic a coffee bed inside a portafilter, I'm very reassured! Also after speaking to DavecUK, he also carried out such tests and reassured me the stability and temperature is spot on. Enjoy your coffee!


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## zidane72003

Dave and your posts helped me to pick Elizabeth as my coffee machine. Cant thank you enough via a post . Coffee on me if u ever come to Glasgow.

Great. Was curious as prior the changes in advance menu temp was quite stable. A'm really reassured now.Great machine.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam

zidane72003 said:


> Dave and your posts helped me to pick Elizabeth as my coffee machine. Cant thank you enough via a post   . Coffee on me if u ever come to Glasgow  .
> 
> Great. Was curious as prior the changes in advance menu temp was quite stable. A'm really reassured now.Great machine.
> 
> Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


 That's the video I talk about, from the Russian forum.






And... If you think the factory settings work better for you, just put them back to what they were ????.

For reference:

Default LCC advanced settings. Read: Default settings, followed by a slash if it was recommended by DavecUK to change it. Explanation of why or what it is in brackets.

Brew boiler:

KPc: 2.0 / 0.2

KIc: 0.04 / 0.07

KDc: 1.00 / 10

Bc: 30 (temp range over PID)

Service (steam) boiler PID settings.

KPs: 2.0

KIs: 0.00

KDs: 20.00 / 0.00 (temp range over PID)

Bs: 30 / 1 (temperature range over PID)

Ec: 10 (offset brew boiler)

Es: 5 / 0 (Steam offset)

F01: 1 (illumination)

TR: 0 / 1 (actual vs set temperature )

EVS: 1 (Steam pre-infusion on/off)

BLS1: 1 / 3 (steam pre infusion)

BLS2: 1 / 3

BLP1: 2 / 5 (bloom pre infusion)

BLP2: 2 / 5

PRG: 5 / 6 (purge function)


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## Inspector

I watched his other videos while he was making coffee. Machine is totally quiet. In other videos I watched online, machine was almost louder than my gaggia


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## Stanic

Inspector said:


> I watched his other videos while he was making coffee. Machine is totally quiet. In other videos I watched online, machine was almost louder than my gaggia


 old pump vs. new?


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## Inspector

no even with v3. On youtube there is a guy i think his name was Stefanus he uploaded few videos about latest lelit Elizabeth and his one really loud.






watch after 7:45

Maybe it is all about where he placed the camera. I can only tell when i buy it


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## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> That sounds loud, I must admit. The only way we would find out is if he opens the machine up. The might not have a V3 after all?
> 
> Mine is not like that (and I don't think anyone else's is either).


 Steam/Service boiler on the Elizabeth is 600ml, NOT 900ml!


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## tj893

Regards sound level - I suspect that the difference is whether the little plastic push-on filter on the intake tube that goes into the water reservoir has been removed. With it fitted and without some adjustment to it's position the sound level is not dissimilar to the gaggia classic as it vibrates against the tank. Either remove (assuming good filtered water) or change the tubing in such a way that the end either hangs naturally or (by extending) is forced away from the edge of the tank (both approaches have been discussed a little by other users earlier in the thread).


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## Inspector

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Steam/Service boiler on the Elizabeth is 600ml, NOT 900ml!


 Yes I wanted to comment about it on YouTube


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## MichaelKusnadi

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I had a brief experience with HX machine. A Rocket Cellini (first paragraph in my reply to you). As stated, I didn't have a good experience and cooling flushes were not my thing. I very much prefer to show up to the machine and pull a shot, knowing the machine has regulated the temperature for me. Apart from the MaraX, no other HX machine can do that to date.
> 
> steam pressure, etc... did you open the link on the first post of this thread and read DavecUK review? Did you watch the videos? If you haven't, I'd highly recommend you do. Back to back drinks steam pressure is not a problem. I actually make two every morning, and have made four in a row before. No issue!
> 
> You should *really *read this thread.... you are asking questions which have already beeen answered. Mine is a V3. Display says version 5.05a upon turning the machine on. Also, any machine made after the first of July is V3.
> 
> in terms of accessories: I'd recommend you change the basket to an IMS or VST, whichever you prefer. The stock basket is poorly made (like many stock baskets).
> 
> you'll need a tamper, as the machine does not come with one. A 58.4mm fits the bill nicely. As per a previous post 😂 - I found that the CI200MI shower screen and a Cafelat 8mm silicone gasket (red) brought no benefit to my experience, not to this type of group at least, to the point I have actually reverted to the stock configuration.
> 
> with regards to the grinder Eureka Mignon Specialità: you should be good. I never owned one, but from what I read it's a fine grinder which should last you years. I own a Niche: Great grinder, no retention and single dose if that's your thing.
> 
> as per the MaraX... there's a bread on this forum called "MaraX". You might want to read that tread: warning:.. much longer then this one. 😊. Ps: I'm unaware of a *pressure* profiling mod for the MaraX. I am, however, aware that some fitted a *flow* profiling kit fitted to the group, similar to the stock configuration of the Lelit Bianca.


 Thanks for this, apologies if I repeated a few questions already answered in this post, I've been reading the elizabeth owner experience thread in homebarista's website through all of it but just wanted to more specific answers I didnt see were already answered here, thank you for still being patient with me though, greatly appreciated. Also yea, DaveC's review was really great went through his videos and his blogpost as well.

Ok thank you for that, I just ordered the elizabeth a few minutes ago actually haha, still deciding between the grinders and coffee accesories in general as I am a complete beginner.


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## MichaelKusnadi

> 28 minutes ago, Inspector said:
> 
> no even with v3. On youtube there is a guy i think his name was Stefanus he uploaded few videos about latest lelit Elizabeth and his one really loud.


 I contacted him directly as he's a seller in Indonesia where I am, and he said he was confused as well because lelit says it was indeed a v3, he's trying to check, but from all the other videos I've seen the noise level is similar to the marax no? albeit maybe a little bit louder


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## MediumRoastSteam

tj893 said:


> or (by extending) is forced away from the edge of the tank


 I've done exactly this. Extended the tubing by splicing a smaller silicone tube with a PTFE tube inside. 👍


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## MediumRoastSteam

MichaelKusnadi said:


> Thanks for this, apologies if I repeated a few questions already answered in this post, I've been reading the elizabeth owner experience thread in homebarista's website through all of it but just wanted to more specific answers I didnt see were already answered here, thank you for still being patient with me though, greatly appreciated. Also yea, DaveC's review was really great went through his videos and his blogpost as well.
> 
> Ok thank you for that, I just ordered the elizabeth a few minutes ago actually haha, still deciding between the grinders and coffee accesories in general as I am a complete beginner.


 Nice! Welcome to the club!


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## MediumRoastSteam

MichaelKusnadi said:


> I contacted him directly as he's a seller in Indonesia where I am, and he said he was confused as well because lelit says it was indeed a v3, he's trying to check, but from all the other videos I've seen the noise level is similar to the marax no? albeit maybe a little bit louder


 If the hose with the gauze (pump inlet) rattles inside the tank, it can be very noisy indeed.


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## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Best to stick to Dave's recommended settings if you want to have any benefit of this functionality at all. @ZiggyMarley - FYI.


 mine is set to 5 seconds from the factory.....


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## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> mine is set to 5 seconds from the factory.....


 Really? That's cool! Maybe BB re-configured them whilst bench testing? 👍


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## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Really? That's cool! Maybe BB re-configured them whilst bench testing? 👍


 I got no idea, but i checked the settings. It is making great coffee...... just ordered a VST basket to see what all the fuss is about....


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## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> just ordered a VST basket to see what all the fuss is about....


 Aren't we all a bunch of fussy fuss pots? 😂 - Have fun with the VST. Grind finer, and you'll notice a different in flavours. Did you get the 18g?


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## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Aren't we all a bunch of fussy fuss pots? 😂 - Have fun with the VST. Grind finer, and you'll notice a different in flavours. Did you get the 18g?


 yes 18g


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## ZiggyMarley

ZiggyMarley said:


> yes 18g


 mind you I had no idea whether ridged or ridgeless was "better" perhaps I should have bought both


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## Inspector

There is no performance difference between them according to this article and few others.

https://medium.com/swlh/espresso-baskets-vst-ridged-vs-ridgeless-89ac52767f13


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## Gary5709

MediumRoastSteam said:


> As for naked PF, the Rocket naked PF and the ECM fits very nicely.
> 
> Welcome to the club!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Was just about to ask this question! In terms of changing the handles on these to a bespoke one does anyom=ne know if thats an option?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Gary5709 said:


> Was just about to ask this question! In terms of changing the handles on these to a bespoke one does anyom=ne know if thats an option?


 @Stanic has changed his. I think you can, but you need to know what you are doing (unlike me!!!!)


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## tj893

Gary5709 said:


> Was just about to ask this question! In terms of changing the handles on these to a bespoke one does anyom=ne know if thats an option?


 Related but not exactly what you're asking I think- the standard Lelit spouted PF that comes with the machine is fairly easy to change the handle. Pop the cap off the back of the handle and use a long Allen key to loosen the bolt. This gets the handle off. Then there is the part that accepts the bolt- this is screwed into the PF head. This bit is fairly tough as they've used threadlocker as normal. Happily the part is square in shape so if you use an adjustable wrench and clamp the head of the PF either in a vice or with some quick clamps then it's not too bad.

Finally the replacement handle has to have an M12 bolt and this screws into the PF head.


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## MediumRoastSteam

For anyone interested in water wastage metrics on this machine:

3x coffee daily for a week (21 coffees).

total water in the drip tray: 117ml. That's approx. 6ml wasted water per shot.

this excludes backflushing (which is about 250ml) and any rinsing of the group (I rinse for 1 sec - 5ml - to clean the shower screen and then wipe with a cloth). I also draw 20ml through the hot water once a day at the start to keep that solenoid ticking and that path of the circuit nice and primed at all times.


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## TD66

MediumRoastSteam said:


> For anyone interested in water wastage metrics on this machine:
> 
> 3x coffee daily for a week (21 coffees).
> 
> total water in the drip tray: 117ml. That's approx. 6ml wasted water per shot.
> 
> this excludes backflushing (which is about 250ml) and any rinsing of the group (I rinse for 1 sec - 5ml - to clean the shower screen and then wipe with a cloth). I also draw 20ml through the hot water once a day at the start to keep that solenoid ticking and that path of the circuit nice and primed at all times.


 I have noticed I'm going through water much less than on the BE which is nice as it's not as easy to see water level.


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## thbreith

Hello all, I am a new member of the coffee forum. I read with much interest many of the posts on the Lelit machines and RO systems and went through Dave Corbeys excellent reviews of the MaraX and the Elizabeth. I eventually pulled the trigger for the Lelit Elizabeth which is now the new star of our kitchen, next to the Niche zero. I am attaching a picture as I think it just fits the space perfectly.

My coffee journey started many years ago. Inspired by the excellent Italian cappuccinos I always (for the past 30 years) tried to get something similar but even though I „went through" some good machines (including Gaggia classic) I never developed the knowledge or skills to come even close. Frustration with maintenance of the machines and frequent break downs caused me eventually to move to nespresso systems (which I first saw in some of my Italian friends home). After three years of generating a lot of mediocre espresso and much waste, I felt so bad about supporting Nestle and creating all the non-recyclable waste (we always sent the capsules back to nespresso but I think only 20% get recycled) that I sold the machine and got a delonghi bean to coffee maker which we still have. I discovered a local roaster on our weekly food market and started to appreciate freshly roasted coffee and the fruity taste notes in the lighter roasts. I also developed a liking of pour overs and aeropress and recently participated online in Hoffman's world largest coffee tasting event. Anyway, the espresso of the Delonghi machine was always too acidic and only after much research I came across the reviews of good grinders and HX- and double boiler espresso machines. And here I am. I think I came home and finally found the perfect solution for me. Just a start to further explore the beauties of the world of coffee. I still have lots of questions and unresolved issues and will surely bug this thread and the RO thread with my questions. It looks like a very friendly community.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam

thbreith said:


> Hello all, I am a new member of the coffee forum. I read with much interest many of the posts on the Lelit machines and RO systems and went through Dave Corbeys excellent reviews of the MaraX and the Elizabeth. I eventually pulled the trigger for the Lelit Elizabeth which is now the new star of our kitchen, next to the Niche zero. I am attaching a picture as I think it just fits the space perfectly.
> 
> My coffee journey started many years ago. Inspired by the excellent Italian cappuccinos I always (for the past 30 years) tried to get something similar but even though I „went through" some good machines (including Gaggia classic) I never developed the knowledge or skills to come even close. Frustration with maintenance of the machines and frequent break downs caused me eventually to move to nespresso systems (which I first saw in some of my Italian friends home). After three years of generating a lot of mediocre espresso and much waste, I felt so bad about supporting Nestle and creating all the non-recyclable waste (we always sent the capsules back to nespresso but I think only 20% get recycled) that I sold the machine and got a delonghi bean to coffee maker which we still have. I discovered a local roaster on our weekly food market and started to appreciate freshly roasted coffee and the fruity taste notes in the lighter roasts. I also developed a liking of pour overs and aeropress and recently participated online in Hoffman's world largest coffee tasting event. Anyway, the espresso of the Delonghi machine was always too acidic and only after much research I came across the reviews of good grinders and HX- and double boiler espresso machines. And here I am. I think I came home and finally found the perfect solution for me. Just a start to further explore the beauties of the world of coffee. I still have lots of questions and unresolved issues and will surely bug this thread and the RO thread with my questions. It looks like a very friendly community.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
> 
> View attachment 46955


 Welcome! There are quite a few of us now with the exact same setup! Excellent choice, enjoy!


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## thbreith

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Welcome! There are quite a few of us now with the exact same setup! Excellent choice, enjoy!


Thanks MRS. I am making the first baby steps with dialling in espresso but it is already much better than the delonghi espresso. I am still using the plastic tamper while waiting for the Motta leveller. I might then get a proper tamper but not sure which size is best for the basket that came with the machine.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## zidane72003

As per medium Roaster previous notes, i would recommend the 58.4mm tamper.

Enjoy your setup & welcome.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


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## thbreith

zidane72003 said:


> As per medium Roaster previous notes, i would recommend the 58.4mm tamper.
> 
> Enjoy your setup & welcome.
> 
> Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


Thanks Zidane. I wasn' t sure if that will fit the original basket. I understand that medium roaster has upgraded to a VST basket. But would be great if the 58.4 fits both. Then I can upgrade to the VST later should I wish to do so.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## zidane72003

I am also in research of a ridge VST or IMS basket.

In general i am fond to buy a coffee distributor, a naked portafilter(probably will go for the cheap nuova Ricambi in Bella barista)& funnel and that's me closing my coffee spot for hot drinks .

After those i will wait for next year IF i wanna experiment with new screen shower , and a frotter to make Greek freddo .

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK

So people with an Elizabeth...especially those that have removed the little rattly gauze filter on the end of the inlet pipe (and possibly put 4 little pads under the drip tray rack) 😉. Is it quiet? I felt it was quieter than the MaraX and definitely (not probably) the quietest vibe pump prosumer machine I have ever heard. I think we're pretty much approaching rotary pump noise levels here.

Those who have heard other machines...what do you think.


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## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> So people with an Elizabeth...especially those that have removed the little rattly gauze filter on the end of the inlet pipe (and possibly put 4 little pads under the drip tray rack) 😉. Is it quiet? I felt it was quieter than the MaraX and definitely (not probably) the quietest vibe pump prosumer machine I have ever heard. I think we're pretty much approaching rotary pump noise levels here.
> 
> Those who have heard other machines...what do you think.


 I agree, having owned a rotary pump machine before. I wouldn't go as quiet as a rotary, but it's almost there. Saying that, vibration of drip tray rack, rattle of the tank lid, rattle of the nonsense inside the tank all add to the noise party, and, sometimes not straight forward to distinguish either, therefore easily blamed on the pump. If all of those are tamed, it's a very quiet machine, in my opinion.

I had a rotary pump machine before and the drip tray vibrated like mad!


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## thbreith

DavecUK said:


> So people with an Elizabeth...especially those that have removed the little rattly gauze filter on the end of the inlet pipe (and possibly put 4 little pads under the drip tray rack) . Is it quiet? I felt it was quieter than the MaraX and definitely (not probably) the quietest vibe pump prosumer machine I have ever heard. I think we're pretty much approaching rotary pump noise levels here.
> Those who have heard other machines...what do you think.


I would not call my Elizabeth a quiet machine. Even after removing the gauze filter it is still not at a level that you could call quiet. The pump might be quiet but the drip tray and other loose parts of the exterior may rattle a bit and perhaps cause some noise as suggested by MRS.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Coyney

Hello all,

After so much deliberation I went for an Elizabeth, it arrived recently and I'm so pleased! Thanks for all your help, there was no question that I couldn't find answer to on here somewhere! Was wondering, has anyone managed to or know if it's possible to change the steam knob? Looks and feels so cheap to me, I do think it's a real shame it comes on the machine.

Also, could anyone advise if I should still use the lelit water filter if Im using water from an osmosis zero?

Many thanks


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Coyney said:


> Hello all,
> 
> After so much deliberation I went for an Elizabeth, it arrived recently and I'm so pleased! Thanks for all your help, there was no question that I couldn't find answer to on here somewhere! Was wondering, has anyone managed to or know if it's possible to change the steam knob? Looks and feels so cheap to me, I do think it's a real shame it comes on the machine.
> 
> Also, could anyone advise if I should still use the lelit water filter if Im using water from an osmosis zero?
> 
> Many thanks


 You can replace the knob. Someone in a Russian forum did it. Question is... What would you replace it with? I don't think Lelit offers replacements. It would be great if they did though!

No. You don't need any water filter if the water you are feeding the machine with is already good. You can remove the gauze too if you find it rattles inside the tank.


----------



## DavecUK

Coyney said:


> 1. has anyone managed to or know if it's possible to change the steam knob? Looks and feels so cheap to me, I do think it's a real shame it comes on the machine.
> 
> 2. Also, could anyone advise if I should still use the lelit water filter if Im using water from an osmosis zero?
> 
> Many thanks


 1. You need to find a knob with a grub screw (probably your best bet, or a press fit, flat sided that fits the shaft (It's an odd size). I'm keeping my eye out on ebay for an aluminium one. However there are wood turners on here that could probably make you something nice.

2. No, you don't need to use the Lelit Water filter.

Beaten to it by the speedy @MediumRoastSteam 🙄


----------



## Tempest

It's going to take a few more shots to get dialled in, especially given pre-infusion is totally new to me but I'm already really loving this machine. Even running a bit fast I still got more flavours in my drink than I did this morning on the Gaggia with the same beans. I've set all my options up as per Dave's excellent advice/write-up and put her to bed but tomorrow we really start to play. The milk steaming in like 8 seconds was a revelation haha.


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

Coyney said:


> Was wondering, has anyone managed to or know if it's possible to change the steam knob? Looks and feels so cheap to me, I do think it's a real shame it comes on the machine.


 I've done it. I just used a 45mm diameter electronics knob with grub screw, to suit a 1/4 inch shaft. Gently prise off the existing knob. Slide on the replacement (it will be a loose fit) and gently tighten the grub screw. I aligned the grub screw so aligned with a round section of the shaft.

It feels much nicer to use. Be careful not to crank the steam valve shut - just enough to stop the steam!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Paul_from_Oz said:


> I've done it. I just used a 45mm diameter electronics knob with grub screw, to suit a 1/4 inch shaft. Gently prise off the existing knob. Slide on the replacement (it will be a loose fit) and gently tighten the grub screw. I aligned the grub screw so aligned with a round section of the shaft.
> 
> It feels much nicer to use. Be careful not to crank the steam valve shut - just enough to stop the steam!


 Oh nice! Do you have a picture, and, maybe a link to the knob you bought? Does the Lelit knob have a grub scrub too?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Tempest said:


> It's going to take a few more shots to get dialled in, especially given pre-infusion is totally new to me but I'm already really loving this machine. Even running a bit fast I still got more flavours in my drink than I did this morning on the Gaggia with the same beans. I've set all my options up as per Dave's excellent advice/write-up and put her to bed but tomorrow we really start to play. The milk steaming in like 8 seconds was a revelation haha.
> 
> View attachment 47054


 I have the exact same set of glasses, from Bodum. They are brilliant!


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Oh nice! Do you have a picture, and, maybe a link to the knob you bought? Does the Lelit knob have a grub scrub too?


 I do have a pic, but not sure if I can put it up with my post count. The knob is just a generic knob sourced locally (Australia) from Jaycar Electronics. You'll easily source something in the UK from an equivalent retailer.

https://www.jaycar.com.au/45mm-knob-black-plastic-aluminium-insert/p/HK7742

The existing knob just pulls off (don't reef it) and is secured with a spring clip.


----------



## Tempest

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I have the exact same set of glasses, from Bodum. They are brilliant!


 I actually only use the espresso ones occasionally now. The latte ones are HUGE and as I've gotten better at making the espresso I've wanted less milk not to basically totally hide the coffee taste. I'm mostly using 5oz Ancap flat white cups now. I do love the Bodum ones though, I might need to try and find some 5oz ones. They look nice on the top of the machine though.

I got dialled in and figured out how the pre-infusion works properly this morning. I had it set for 3 seconds in advanced but missed the part where you need to set it for 10 seconds in your options to give the preinfusion time to work. In my defence it was like 9pm last night by the time I'd set it all up and we'd had a chance to eat as well haha. I think I'm pretty much in the close ballpark so it's just fine tuning now. Will switch to the bottomless pf for that step. I loved my GC but this is just in another league and not needing to manually refill or switch the boiler from one job to another is such a breath of fresh air. I'm going to get heart rate issues from all the coffee I'll be drinking while I play as the other half only drinks hot chocolate! The last espresso I made this morning I could almost have drank as it was without milk. Getting the milk right is going to be the biggest learning curve. It's always under or over aerated, haven't cracked just right yet.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Paul_from_Oz said:


> I do have a pic, but not sure if I can put it up with my post count. The knob is just a generic knob sourced locally (Australia) from Jaycar Electronics. You'll easily source something in the UK from an equivalent retailer.
> 
> https://www.jaycar.com.au/45mm-knob-black-plastic-aluminium-insert/p/HK7742
> 
> The existing knob just pulls off (don't reef it) and is secured with a spring clip.
> 
> View attachment 47063


 For the UK, looks like it's readily available:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Large-45mm-Potentiometer-Knob-Volume-Amp-Dial-6mm-Hole-for-Shaft-Radio-Tuner-DIY-/113382231286

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Sizes-Large-Potentiometer-Knobs-Volume-Amp-Dial-for-6mm-Shaft-Pot/232723486786?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131231084308%26meid%3Dfd9cc62a9e544ed9bd973ec84a44185d%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D113382231286%26itm%3D232723486786%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109


----------



## DavecUK

I'd actually considered something like this and was prepared to take material off the inside face if required.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wivarra-38x22mm-Aluminium-Potentiometer-Silver/dp/B08CDMW83L/ref=sr_1_195?dchild=1&keywords=aluminium+knob&qid=1603446767&sr=8-195


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

MediumRoastSteam said:


> For the UK, looks like it's readily available:


 For me, it's a nice enhancement for the cost of loose change. And it takes mere seconds to revert to standard if desired.

I've made a similar mod on my Macap M2M, since I found the little spindly worm screw knob was a bit unwieldly in my fingers.

So many possibilities. Get a solid aluminium unit if you want to go deluxe!


----------



## Coyney

Thanks for all the responses, for anyone concerned, as Paul said the existing knob does pull off very easily!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I'm wondering whether a lever type of attachment would make it look nice too, similar to the Sage Dual Boiler.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Tempest said:


> Getting the milk right is going to be the biggest learning curve. It's always under or over aerated, haven't cracked just right yet.


 Try to picture that the spout of your jug is 12 o clock. The immediate opposite, towards the edge of the jug is 6 o'clock, steam wand pointing down-ish, not towards you. *Make sure that the holes of the tip point to 12 and 6 o'clock too.*

Position the tip of the steam wand just under the surface of the milk, at the 6 o'clock position, very close to the edge of the jug. Crank up the volume steam knob. You'll notice the milk will start rolling inside the jug towards the spout.

Hear the sounds, tsssk tsssk (tearing sound), keep the milk rolling, and place your hand on the bottom of the jug. When it's too hot to touch, stop it.


----------



## Tempest

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Try to picture that the spout of your jug is 12 o clock. The immediate opposite, towards the edge of the jug is 6 o'clock, steam wand pointing down-ish, not towards you. *Make sure that the holes of the tip point to 12 and 6 o'clock too.*
> 
> Position the tip of the steam wand just under the surface of the milk, at the 6 o'clock position, very close to the edge of the jug. Crank up the volume steam knob. You'll notice the milk will start rolling inside the jug towards the spout.
> 
> Hear the sounds, tsssk tsssk (tearing sound), keep the milk rolling, and place your hand on the bottom of the jug. When it's too hot to touch, stop it.


 Yeah, I do just that but I find it either sucks in way too much air and goes crazy or doesn't get enough and stays runny. Clearly just me needing to practise enough to find where the wand tip needs to sit in relation to the surface of the milk to get the constant tearing noise but not the tv static noise.

I can't judge it well by hand but I use a thermometer and I do know what temp to stop at in order for it to come up to just over 60 so I'm good at that part at least. I likely need to do the soapy water trick to learn. I tried that on the GC and the Kitchenaid but it was such a pain in the arse to constantly run out of steam, have to refill the boiler, wait for it to heat and on and on. Obviously I'd be able to do it back to back to back on this one as it'd be refilled and back up to temp on it's own by the time you got the next jug of soapy water ready to go. A weekend task perhaps.


----------



## Coyney

Hello,

hoping someone can help, I think I must've inadvertently done something but I can't for the life of me work out how to stop it. When I turn on my machine water just flows out the group head and doesn't stop, doesn't begin to heat up or anything. Anyone know what I've perhaps done or how to stop it? I set the LCC back to factory presets, if I turn it on to do a cleaning cycle as far as I can gather, nothing happens

Many thanks


----------



## DavecUK

Coyney said:


> Hello,
> 
> hoping someone can help, I think I must've inadvertently done something but I can't for the life of me work out how to stop it. When I turn on my machine water just flows out the group head and doesn't stop, doesn't begin to heat up or anything. Anyone know what I've perhaps done or how to stop it? I set the LCC back to factory presets, if I turn it on to do a cleaning cycle as far as I can gather, nothing happens
> 
> Many thanks


 The software assumes the machines boilers are empty after a reset and will run about 500-700ml through. Just let it do it's thing, there is probably something about it in the manual. Put a container under the group.


----------



## Coyney

DavecUK said:


> The software assumes the machines boilers are empty after a reset and will run about 500-700ml through. Just let it do it's thing, there is probably something about it in the manual. Put a container under the group.


 Thanks so much for the quick response, I missed that in the manual! It ran through a lot of water more like 2 litres. Time to go back to your recommend settings!


----------



## DavecUK

Coyney said:


> Thanks so much for the quick response, I missed that in the manual! It ran through a lot of water more like 2 litres. Time to go back to your recommend settings!


 Excellent news. So many machines to be honest I couldn't remember how much it went through...but yeah it's a lot. 🤣 Lelit were not leaving anything to chance as all brew boilers on dual boiler machines don't have a level sensor, so must be full. If a machine doesn't have a factory start routine (more and more do now), on dual boilers you should always get water running through the group ASAP when commissioning them from new, or after draining.


----------



## zidane72003

Hi guys. Hope you are all well and healthy.

Unfortunately an issue for me and prior calling bella barista was hoping if anyone of the masters of this topic might think smth.

A received 2day my naked portafilter. After 2 perfect shots with my new ims basket a weird sound started as per video. The sound is the same regardless of having off or on the steam boiler(no sound comes from water or steam). The noise is coming with both buttons from 1st second(1+2)






Think at some point there was a Russian video from@MediumRoastSteam doing also a bad noise like mine. Any thoughts will be much appreciated







. Have not touch anything and water is almost always full as usual. That rattle thing was previously missing, and started all of a sudden.


----------



## ZiggyMarley

VST 18g ridgless basket keeps getting pulled out of portafilter and stuck in group head when I remove the portafilter.

Anyone else had this happen. It isnt all the time, seems to happen more frequently when the basket is empty and hot


----------



## Doram

ZiggyMarley said:


> VST 18g ridgless basket keeps getting pulled out of portafilter and stuck in group head when I remove the portafilter.


 Maybe you can take the portafilter spring clip out and bend it a little so that it pushes a bit harder on the basket? I think it is all a function of the tension you have from the spring. With an old machine you sometimes need to replace the spring (as below), but with a new machine I would try to fiddle it to submission first.


----------



## profesor_historia

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I'm intrigued!


Me too!

Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

zidane72003 said:


> Hi guys. Hope you are all well and healthy.
> 
> Unfortunately an issue for me and prior calling bella barista was hoping if anyone of the masters of this topic might think smth.
> 
> A received 2day my naked portafilter. After 2 perfect shots with my new ims basket a weird sound started as per video. The sound is the same regardless of having off or on the steam boiler(no sound comes from water or steam). The noise is coming with both buttons from 1st second(1+2)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think at some point there was a Russian video from@MediumRoastSteam doing also a bad noise like mine. Any thoughts will be much appreciated   . Have not touch anything and water is almost always full as usual. That rattle thing was previously missing, and started all of a sudden.


 I'll have to defer this one to @DavecUK - I have no idea. Doesn't sound right. Maybe the pump?

what's the sound when you use your blind basket / backflush?


----------



## zidane72003

Haven't done any today that the problem occurred. My only one was on Sunday after 40 days or usage I refreshed and empty the water in boiler and cleaned my machine (cleaning it every fortnight).

Will do 1st thing in the morning. Feared might be the pump .

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> VST 18g ridgless basket keeps getting pulled out of portafilter and stuck in group head when I remove the portafilter.
> 
> Anyone else had this happen. It isnt all the time, seems to happen more frequently when the basket is empty and hot


 Yep! Same here. Mine only once got proper stuck to the group head, it more often kind of tries to get out but the spring holds back. Maybe one advantage of ridged baskets... 👍. Happens when, as you say, I leave the PF semi engaged for the next round (I.e: not fully dry). Never happens first thing in the morning when the basket / PF had all night to dry up properly.

Got a mate who has exactly the same problem with a MaraX too.


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

zidane72003 said:


> After 2 perfect shots with my new ims basket a weird sound started as per video. The sound is the same regardless of having off or on the steam boiler(no sound comes from water or steam). The noise is coming with both buttons from 1st second(1+2)


 I have experienced the same thing. But it only occurred for one day. However, I did remove the top cover, and I think that the sound was coming from the 3-way solenoid. It was very obvious during the steam infusion while the pump was off.

I took delivery of my Elizabeth 3 weeks ago, and this sound occurred about 1 week ago. As mentioned, I have only heard this sound over one day.

Will be interested to hear Dave C's take on this one.


----------



## zidane72003

I honestly hope you are right but i fear that isn't the case with the sound in mine.

Machine working perfectly(just drunk one long black and one latte), however even with the stream on i am hearing that sound with both buttons. Will upload a second video later. I already contact with Bella barista via their form waiting for their response. If@DavecUK has any opinion/solution glad to hear it (i think will need to pack it and send it to bb)

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

zidane72003 said:


> I honestly hope you are right but i fear that isn't the case with the sound in mine.


 Will be interesting to see what might be going on. Hopefully a diagnosis will come to light!


----------



## DavecUK

The Elizabeth uses a solenoid valve to control the preinfusion/hot water functions and during certain types of operation this solenoid is open. *For some reason (watching Pauls video), this solenoid is buzzing (50Hz chatter). *There can be 3 main causes for solenoid buzz in any espresso machine



Solenoid not fully pulling in due to contaminants


Faulty Solenoid


Shading coil fault


Spring weak


For new solenoids the first 2 issues are more likely

The first would most likely be the case for one that does it a few times then never does it again..of course if whatever is stopping it pulling in fully doesn't pass through, it won't stop.

Issues 3 and 4 tend only to show up on older solenoids e.g. 7 years plus

P.S. Although it may seem strange that a solenoid can be faulty straight out of the box and pass testing, if there is something wrong it might work for a day or two then start buzzing. This is because it takes some use for the fault to show through.


----------



## zidane72003

Well as long as is not the pump and i can use it till i go for 1-2 days a drive Nottingham (and then pass and leave it to the specialists in BB for 1-2 days to check and maybe if is fault restore/change it)is fine by me. Thanks a lot for the response Dave. Feared at some point it will explode if i continue to use it .

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## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> *For some reason (watching Pauls video), this solenoid is buzzing (50Hz chatter). *


 Thanks Dave. For clarity, do you mean @zidane72003's video?


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Thanks Dave. For clarity, do you mean @zidane72003's video?


 Sorry, yes I do, and quoted by Paul..


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

zidane72003 said:


> Thanks a lot for the response Dave. Feared at some point it will explode if i continue to use it


 @DavecUK This leads me to ask, is there any particular risk in continuing to use the machine while the solenoid noise is evident?


----------



## DavecUK

Paul_from_Oz said:


> @DavecUK This leads me to ask, is there any particular risk in continuing to use the machine while the solenoid noise is evident?


 Nope, no risk at all, it's just the chatter of the pin against the stop. if it's something sticky, it might well free itself and just stop.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@zidane72003 - if you go to advanced settings and set the EVS to 0 (effectively shutting the culprit solenoid valve off and therefore disabling steam pre-infusion) and then make a coffee the normal way, do you still hear the noise?

interesting that you are brewing in eco mode, so the valve should be off anyway, and still makes noise. Intriguing.

@DavecUK - does the above make any sense?


----------



## DavecUK

If he is in ECO mode, yes the valve should be off, but there is another....the valve that vents the group...it could be that one chattering as it's energised during the shot and under pressure it may not chatter, or be disguised by pump sounds. I wan't sure because it's a video

I just listened to it again with the volume up...It must be the vent solenoid, that's pulled in for the entire shot and you can hear it buzzing all the time.

It's actually worth trying a backflush with cleaner, perhaps something got stuck in there and it can be shifted....you never know.


----------



## DavecUK

If it helps


----------



## zidane72003

Right. Ok will do again backflush and let you know. Will also go to advance and switch off to check. The noise however indeed comes up both with steam pre inf or eco and pump.

Bad news in Scotland cant make any trips so i might need to wait for a trip to BB to fix that if the cleaning not help.

Many thanks both of you big guns@MediumRoastSteam@DavecUK for your efforts.

Might also worth it to open the top to check if is just the solenoid.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

zidane72003 said:


> Right. Ok will do again backflush and let you know. Will also go to advance and switch off to check. The noise however indeed comes up both with steam pre inf or eco and pump.
> 
> Bad news in Scotland cant make any trips so i might need to wait for a trip to BB to fix that if the cleaning not help.
> 
> Many thanks both of you big guns@MediumRoastSteam@DavecUK for your efforts.
> 
> Might also worth it to open the top to check if is just the solenoid.
> 
> Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


 Yeah. I don't think you'd gain anything by opening the machine, apart for trying to identify where the sound comes from better. As Dave said, try backflushing with detergent, as per DaveC's review of the machine. If you do open the machine, don't be alarmed, as the picture Dave posted is the old machine. 😉 - the solenoids are in the same place, but the new machine has the OPV at the top and doesn't have those plastic junctions anymore.

this is the newer version, from the top. Image from Dave's review.

View attachment 44997


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

DavecUK said:


> If it helps
> 
> View attachment 47339


 From my initial investigation, the vent solenoid was the noisy solenoid.


----------



## DavecUK

This, meaning the one in the middle?


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

DavecUK said:


> This, meaning the one in the middle?


 @DavecUK I should have been more clear (symptomatic of posting before my morning coffee). I was referencing the vent solenoid from your photo.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Paul_from_Oz said:


> @DavecUK I should have been more clear (symptomatic of posting before my morning coffee). I was referencing the vent solenoid from your photo.


 There are two which he points out: one in the middle and one to the right.😊

edit: ignore me. You say "vent solenoid", so the one in the middle. 👍


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

MediumRoastSteam said:


> There are two which he points out: one in the middle and one to the right. 😊


 Um, yes.... the one in the middle, which Dave helpfully labelled as the vent solenoid, is what I believe was the source of my noise.


----------



## zidane72003

Just make a clean now instead of waiting the morning.

So with a blind i am not hearing a think(aame as.david sound in his walkthrough). When I return back to the naked hearing the same sound as per my video.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam

zidane72003 said:


> Just make a clean now instead of waiting the morning.
> 
> So with a blind i am not hearing a think(aame as.david sound in his walkthrough). When I return back to the naked hearing the same sound as per my video.
> 
> Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


 When you say "naked", you mean using a naked portafilter, presumably loaded with coffee and not empty, correct?


----------



## zidane72003

Ah no. Didnt wanna use some coffee.

Backflush and clean.

Then(always with the blind)just left some water to run and moving the group just so to release the water. Then just used my naked and let some water to run (and the sound was there).

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam

zidane72003 said:


> Ah no  . Didnt wanna use some coffee.
> 
> Backflush and clean.
> 
> Then(always with the blind)just left some water to run and moving the group just so to release the water. Then just used my naked and let some water to run (and the sound was there).
> 
> Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


 So, in summary, you are saying that, with a blind basket, the sound goes away, and without anything attached to the group, and therefore without any pressure build up, the noise is there?


----------



## zidane72003

Hm no.

The noise exist(well... existed all morning at least) both when the basket was full (today made 5-6 coffees heariu the sound-but no other problem)and when the basket is empty(always cleaning after i taking a shot to clean the basket and removed and coffee remaining in the shower). The eco does not play any role. Both buttons made the sound (does not play a role. No difference button 1 or 2).

The sound missed only tonight when i tried witg the blind .

Can i redo one clean tomorrow(or take just a shot with the blind) and take a video. And i can take a video shot if the sound still exists.

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## zidane72003

Good morning to all.

As i was starting my routine the noise stop. I got a video with the noise and one without (will upload it later-seems like my manager insists to work- just for future reference).

Happy days for me. If you hear a same noise again would higly advise just do a backflush as per Dave and mediumroster correctly comment.

Edit:well is just a job

Prob noise when i started the day






The shot






Edit2:A big thank you to both mediumroster and davec. A last q regarding this:you believe still need to contact with BB to request a check for my only 1 month sweet Eli?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

zidane72003 said:


> Good morning to all.
> 
> As i was starting my routine the noise stop. I got a video with the noise and one without (will upload it later-seems like my manager insists to work- just for future reference).
> 
> Happy days for me. If you hear a same noise again would higly advise just do a backflush as per Dave and mediumroster correctly comment.
> 
> Edit:well is just a job
> 
> Prob noise when i started the day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The shot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit2:A big thank you to both mediumroster and davec. A last q regarding this:you believe still need to contact with BB to request a check for my only 1 month sweet Eli?


 I'm not sure... the noise seems to have gone away, but, what I find odd - or maybe I'm hearing things - is that I, on you first video, I hear the pump kicking after you draw water from the group. For quite a bit. On your last purge, you can hear the pump still running after the purge function ends. Does this happen all the time? @DavecUK - thoughts?

@zidane72003 - second video sounds like mine. ????


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@zidane72003 - on an unrelated note: is that a Britfit scale? I was thinking of getting one. If so, what's it like? Could you do a video focusing more on the scale one day? Interested in seeing its responsiveness. Thank you!


----------



## zidane72003

@MediumRoastSteam unfortunately is not . Is a very low quality (called Amir).

Would look for a scale probably with the next bonus payment just so to be able to produce better filter coffee. For this one is a very negative feedback very slow (and fear not 101% accurate-moving a bit the beans prior grind them will might change 0.1 g).

Truth been told the pump seems working a bit more. Since yesterday put more bottles of volvic. Will keep a memo and check next week how much i spent to see if machine "consume"(?)more water in a way.

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## DavecUK

If sa shot is drawn



MediumRoastSteam said:


> I'm not sure... the noise seems to have gone away, but, what I find odd - or maybe I'm hearing things - is that I, on you first video, I hear the pump kicking after you draw water from the group. For quite a bit. On your last purge, you can hear the pump still running after the purge function ends. Does this happen all the time? @DavecUK - thoughts?
> 
> @zidane72003 - second video sounds like mine. 👍


 If the boiler was close to autofilling, then the purge just took it down enough past the probe, it will do a full fill...remembering all well designed machines give a period of overfill in seconds.

probably some issue causing the plunger not to seat properly and use/backflushing has stopped it, then let BB know, what you did and that it's no longer a problem. At least by registering it with them, they know about it.....so if it does start up again, you can go back to them. I imagine if it doesn't do it again for a few days it will be fine.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Just thought I'd share a video of my routine from start to finish, unedited.

Staring: Decent PF holder, La Pavoni distribution tool, Scarlet Espresoo leveller, Nicknak's tall funnel, Rhinowate 58.4mm tamper. VST 18g, Foundry Rocko mountain coffee, ECM gran crema naked PF. Lelit Elizabeth, Niche Zero, NASA slippers from Tesco, my son as the camera man and I.

note towards the end it was going to be a stuck puck. This coffee seems to stick, as it requires a fine grind. But, with the right technique, you can avoid it sticking to the shower screen.


----------



## arturhoo

Yesterday I joined the Elizabeth club. Got the machine from lamacchinadelcaffe, fantastic service from them, which included a sneak peak of the package before it was posted over WhatsApp. Left Italy on Monday and delivered yesterday by TNT.

Still waiting for my Niche do be delivered (expected by December). Bough a 58.4mm tamper as recommended by some here but Bella Barista unfortunately sent the wrong one so I'm still waiting for a proper tamper. I did get a ridgeless VST 18g.

First few shots were with pre-ground (espresso) coffee from Pact. It was extremely coarse, so I tested the pour over capabilities of the Elizabeth 😝. This morning I popped by Milk Beach and asked them to grind their El Salvador beans on the setting they use on their La Marzocco. It was much better, but it could've been ground finer (acidic/under-extracted: 19s, 17g in, 36g out) and using the plastic tamper that comes in the box definitely doesn't help.

I've been practising frothing with water and washing up liquid and am surprised by the pressure in the steaming wand. I'm only used to an Astoria Core, so a lot of learning ahead.

Thank you everyone on this thread for all the tips, especially @DavecUK and @MediumRoastSteam. Anxiously waiting for the Niche now.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

arturhoo said:


> Yesterday I joined the Elizabeth club. Got the machine from lamacchinadelcaffe, fantastic service from them, which included a sneak peak of the package before it was posted over WhatsApp. Left Italy on Monday and delivered yesterday by TNT.
> 
> Still waiting for my Niche do be delivered (expected by December). Bough a 58.4mm tamper as recommended by some here but Bella Barista unfortunately sent the wrong one so I'm still waiting for a proper tamper. I did get a ridgeless VST 18g.
> 
> First few shots were with pre-ground (espresso) coffee from Pact. It was extremely coarse, so I tested the pour over capabilities of the Elizabeth 😝. This morning I popped by Milk Beach and asked them to grind their El Salvador beans on the setting they use on their La Marzocco. It was much better, but it could've been ground finer (acidic/under-extracted: 19s, 17g in, 36g out) and using the plastic tamper that comes in the box definitely doesn't help.
> 
> I've been practising frothing with water and washing up liquid and am surprised by the pressure in the steaming wand. I'm only used to an Astoria Core, so a lot of learning ahead.
> 
> Thank you everyone on this thread for all the tips, especially @DavecUK and @MediumRoastSteam. Anxiously waiting for the Niche now.


 Welcome to the club @arturhoo, and welcome to the forum.


----------



## Inspector

> 2 hours ago, MediumRoastSteam said:
> 
> Just thought I'd share a video of my routine from start to finish, unedited.
> 
> Staring: Decent PF holder, La Pavoni distribution tool, Scarlet Espresoo leveller, Nicknak's tall funnel, Rhinowate 58.4mm tamper. VST 18g, Foundry Rocko mountain coffee, ECM gran crema naked PF. Lelit Elizabeth, Niche Zero, NASA slippers from Tesco, my son as the camera man and I.
> 
> note towards the end it was going to be a stuck puck. This coffee seems to stick, as it requires a fine grind. But, with the right technique, you can avoid it sticking to the shower screen.


 Have you ever tried back to back 2-3 espresso shots to see if that temp drop affects taste at all?

In the video after ending the shot machine was showing 92 degrees and it took about 1min 20 seconds for machine hitting back up to 94 degrees again.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> Have you ever tried back to back 2-3 espresso shots to see if that temp drop affects taste at all?
> 
> In the video after ending the shot machine was showing 92 degrees and it took about 1min 20 seconds for machine hitting back up to 94 degrees again.


 I have tried back to back shots, yes. Tastes good to me! The probe is at the top of the boiler, so it doesn't quite reflect the temperature at the group - similar to a DB machine. For example, when I had my Profitec 700, the PID display showed 89C after a shot (from 94) and took some time to recover. This does not mean the temp in the group has changed.

@DavecUK has done extensive testing on temperature stability, so might be able to comment further.

Edit: I'll keep and eye on recovery times based on what's shown in display (and will post here of course) but I really don't think it affects usual back to back shot routines.

edit again: you can always tune the PID values for a more aggressive recovery if you know what you are doing if you feel the need for it.


----------



## Rickster1978

> 2 hours ago, MediumRoastSteam said:
> 
> Just thought I'd share a video of my routine from start to finish, unedited.
> 
> Staring: Decent PF holder, La Pavoni distribution tool, Scarlet Espresoo leveller, Nicknak's tall funnel, Rhinowate 58.4mm tamper. VST 18g, Foundry Rocko mountain coffee, ECM gran crema naked PF. Lelit Elizabeth, Niche Zero, NASA slippers from Tesco, my son as the camera man and I.
> 
> note towards the end it was going to be a stuck puck. This coffee seems to stick, as it requires a fine grind. But, with the right technique, you can avoid it sticking to the shower screen.


 That steaming seemed ridiculously quick! I'm still on the Sage BE and steaming takes quite a long time.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Rickster1978 said:


> That steaming seemed ridiculously quick! I'm still on the Sage BE and steaming takes quite a long time.


 That's 2 bar pressure steaming with a well thought-out steam wand for you! For all intents and purposes, that was 105ml of milk straight out of the fridge.


----------



## DavecUK

I think by the time you have ground and prepped the next shot it was fine...it will take a moment to settle because the PID settings are fairly heavily damped (my tuning) to prevent overshooting on the boiler...so that last little bit takes a while...but it's so close as won't make a huge difference.

If you want exactness, wait until it reads the target temp, or to within 1C of it. this is because it might set at 93 for a while when actually it is closer to 94, but the derivative is trying to prevent the system overshooting.


----------



## thbreith

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Just thought I'd share a video of my routine from start to finish, unedited.
> 
> Staring: Decent PF holder, La Pavoni distribution tool, Scarlet Espresoo leveller, Nicknak's tall funnel, Rhinowate 58.4mm tamper. VST 18g, Foundry Rocko mountain coffee, ECM gran crema naked PF. Lelit Elizabeth, Niche Zero, NASA slippers from Tesco, my son as the camera man and I.
> note towards the end it was going to be a stuck puck. This coffee seems to stick, as it requires a fine grind. But, with the right technique, you can avoid it sticking to the shower screen.


That's really interesting. Thanks for sharing, MRS. Particularly the tall funnel for the Niche zero and the combination of Pavoni distribution tool, leveller and tamper. Does it make a big difference? I am still using the niche cup. I put filter basket over coffee filled cup and then tilt, shake and knock on table before using either leveller of tamper but not both - too much faffing I thought. But I am still not completely happy with the result. I have a South American blend, described as "Classic dark roast. Baker's chocolate. Low acidity. Big body. Caramelised sweetness." and what I get is still pretty acidic, although the time (today I had 35s with 14s bloom preinfusion for 33ml of 16g coffee) seems alright, ground with Niche at 17 with the standard Lelit filter basket. I guess there is quite a bit of channeling going on although I try to get a level surface by also knocking on the side of the basket before I tamp. What do you think makes the biggest difference for getting low acidity and sweetness in the taste? Are you happy with the taste of your espresso shots?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## allyburns

> 6 hours ago, MediumRoastSteam said:
> 
> Just thought I'd share a video of my routine from start to finish, unedited.
> 
> Staring: Decent PF holder, La Pavoni distribution tool, Scarlet Espresoo leveller, Nicknak's tall funnel, Rhinowate 58.4mm tamper. VST 18g, Foundry Rocko mountain coffee, ECM gran crema naked PF. Lelit Elizabeth, Niche Zero, NASA slippers from Tesco, my son as the camera man and I.
> 
> note towards the end it was going to be a stuck puck. This coffee seems to stick, as it requires a fine grind. But, with the right technique, you can avoid it sticking to the shower screen.


 Haha! what are the chances I ended up ordering the same Tamper as my Jedi Master @MediumRoastSteam without even realizing

Thanks for sharing your routine, these are useful to watch, to see the order of things, lengths of purges etc.

I flush the water from steam wand into a small glass thing, I seem to have a thing about avoiding any water going into drip tray for some reason!

I'm also getting pucks stuck to shower screen so I pull out portafilter in a special way too.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

thbreith said:


> That's really interesting. Thanks for sharing, MRS. Particularly the tall funnel for the Niche zero and the combination of Pavoni distribution tool, leveller and tamper. Does it make a big difference? I am still using the niche cup. I put filter basket over coffee filled cup and then tilt, shake and knock on table before using either leveller of tamper but not both - too much faffing I thought. But I am still not completely happy with the result. I have a South American blend, described as "Classic dark roast. Baker's chocolate. Low acidity. Big body. Caramelised sweetness." and what I get is still pretty acidic, although the time (today I had 35s with 14s bloom preinfusion for 33ml of 16g coffee) seems alright, ground with Niche at 17 with the standard Lelit filter basket. I guess there is quite a bit of channeling going on although I try to get a level surface by also knocking on the side of the basket before I tamp. What do you think makes the biggest difference for getting low acidity and sweetness in the taste? Are you happy with the taste of your espresso shots?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Try without pre-infusion or an 8s bloom pre-infusion. Also, which temperature are you on?

yes, I'm very happy with the taste of my espresso shots. In fact, I couldn't have been happier with this machine.

as for the Niche cup... yeah... It's a workflow thing. Started that way with the La Pavoni, as the cup did not fit. I never went back. Does it make a difference? I don't think so. It's all about doing what works for you. I'm sure the cup is fine, just make sure you stir/mix the grinds beforehand - if you can't be bother stirring mixing, try s gentle tap on the counter and then level tamp - and do not tap before tamping.


----------



## thbreith

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Try without pre-infusion or an 8s bloom pre-infusion. Also, which temperature are you on?
> 
> yes, I'm very happy with the taste of my espresso shots. In fact, I couldn't have been happier with this machine.
> as for the Niche cup... yeah... It's a workflow thing. Started that way with the La Pavoni, as the cup did not fit. I never went back. Does it make a difference? I don't think so. It's all about doing what works for you. I'm sure the cup is fine, just make sure you stir/mix the grinds beforehand - if you can't be bother stirring mixing, try s gentle tap on the counter and then level tamp - and do not tap before tamping.


Yes, I thought about No preinfusion. I'll give that a try. So much to test... the temperature was 94, then I increased it to 95. But that did not remove acidity. Perhaps it's the water. From Monday I'll join the Osmio RO group. Unfortunately I can only drink so much coffee in a day and I still like some of it, the medium roast Guatemalan La Bolsa, from my aeropress.  
BTW, I liked how you are saving energy and water in your workflow...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam

thbreith said:


> Yes, I thought about No preinfusion. I'll give that a try. So much to test... the temperature was 94, then I increased it to 95. But that did not remove acidity. Perhaps it's the water. From Monday I'll join the Osmio RO group. Unfortunately I can only drink so much coffee in a day and I still like some of it, the medium roast Guatemalan La Bolsa, from my aeropress. 🙂
> BTW, I liked how you are saving energy and water in your workflow...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Am I saving energy and water? How? Honest question, really!

try reducing that temperature to 92 and see how it goes. 95C, That's too high, borderline for a light roasted bean!


----------



## thbreith

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Am I saving energy and water? How? Honest question, really!
> try reducing that temperature to 92 and see how it goes. 95C, That's too high, borderline for a light roasted bean!


Your cleaning rinse after the shot was extremely short and you turned off the machine immediately after the rinse and even before clean wiping the shower screen with the cloth. I thought 'maybe I am wasting energy' with my longer rinse time and keeping the machine on for much longer.
As to temperature, I thought the hotter, the more extraction, the less acidity. Of course it could turn bitter (overextraction) at some point but I think I am still dealing with underextracted sour coffee. I am still very much at the beginning of my speciality coffee journey and could easily be mistaken, though. So many parameter to consider...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam

thbreith said:


> Your cleaning rinse after the shot was extremely short and you turned off the machine immediately after the rinse and even before clean wiping the shower screen with the cloth. I thought 'maybe I am wasting energy' with my longer rinse time and keeping the machine on for much longer.
> 
> As to temperature, I thought the hotter, the more extraction, the less acidity. Of course it could turn bitter (overextraction) at some point but I think I am still dealing with underextracted sour coffee. I am still very much at the beginning of my speciality coffee journey and could easily be mistaken, though. So many parameter to consider...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Ha! Yeah. I like saving water, because I distil it and re-mineralise it. Electricity wise, I often don't do that, it was just the last shot of the day. 

I rinse the group briefly, as per video, and then wipe the screen with a pre-wet sponge cloth. It keeps the screen nice and clean, on both sides, I checked!

This is what it looks like on the other side... after one week, no backflushing, 3 shots per day, short rinse and wiping as per my video:










You are right on the temp aspect... it was just a thought, since you are increasing temp and not liking it.... and I bought you might be confounding bitterness with sourness - some do.

as you say... so many parameters. Change one thing at a time and go from there. Try reducing or eliminating pre-infusion and see how it goes. Or maybe try a longer shot.


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## Paul_from_Oz

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Just thought I'd share a video of my routine from start to finish, unedited.


 Slightly off-beat question, but what is behind the Elizabeth. Looks like a fruit packaging tray or similar?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Paul_from_Oz said:


> Slightly off-beat question, but what is behind the Elizabeth. Looks like a fruit packaging tray or similar?


 It's my designer anti-splash system,😂 just in case, as my machine is not in the kitchen. Indeed, a fruit packaging tray. I need to think of something better, but don't want anything permanent. Suggestions are very welcome!


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## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> Have you ever tried back to back 2-3 espresso shots to see if that temp drop affects taste at all?
> 
> In the video after ending the shot machine was showing 92 degrees and it took about 1min 20 seconds for machine hitting back up to 94 degrees again.





MediumRoastSteam said:


> Edit: I'll keep and eye on recovery times based on what's shown in display (and will post here of course) but I really don't think it affects usual back to back shot routines.
> 
> edit again: you can always tune the PID values for a more aggressive recovery if you know what you are doing if you feel the need for it.


 Checked this morning. After brewing a shot. 12s steam pre-infusion, 42s total time. Boiler set at 94C, DavecUK recommended PID parameters:

Recovery after brewing the shot:

20s: 92C
40s: 93C
60s: 94C

In my experience, this is "normal" as the probe is at the top of the boiler, where the cold water enters. It was similar on my Profitec 700. Personally... simply don't worry about it. By the time I grind the coffee, prep and tamp, it should be all good.


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## Paul_from_Oz

MediumRoastSteam said:


> It's my designer anti-splash system,😂 just in case, as my machine is not in the kitchen. Indeed, a fruit packaging tray. I need to think of something better, but don't want anything permanent. Suggestions are very welcome!


 Mmm. Maybe a sheet of clear acrylic would do the job and would not be visually intrusive.

Endless possibilities!


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## MediumRoastSteam

Paul_from_Oz said:


> Mmm. Maybe a sheet of clear acrylic would do the job and would not be visually intrusive.
> 
> Endless possibilities!


 Yeah... I want something light weight. The top is granite, so not straight forward to fix to it. Also, I don't want anything too expensive, as it's not easy to obtain a sheet of acrylic of that size. (60cm by 40cm). I was toying with the idea of a foam board. As you can see, I don't have an eye or dexterity for practical things! 😂


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## Paul_from_Oz

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Yeah... I want something light weight. The top is granite, so not straight forward to fix to it. Also, I don't want anything too expensive, as it's not easy to obtain a sheet of acrylic of that size. (60cm by 40cm). I was toying with the idea of a foam board. As you can see, I don't have an eye or dexterity for practical things! 😂


 Mmm. What about some cardboard sheets (cheap from any office supplier or newsagent) and cover it with adhesive plastic protective sheet. We have stuff called Contact, which generations of Aussie mums have used to cover their kids' school books. At the moment, I can't conceive anything more simple!


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## thbreith

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Ha! Yeah. I like saving water, because I distil it and re-mineralise it. Electricity wise, I often don't do that, it was just the last shot of the day.  I rinse the group briefly, as per video, and then wipe the screen with a pre-wet sponge cloth. It keeps the screen nice and clean, on both sides, I checked!
> 
> This is what it looks like on the other side... after one week, no backflushing, 3 shots per day, short rinse and wiping as per my video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are right on the temp aspect... it was just a thought, since you are increasing temp and not liking it.... and I bought you might be confounding bitterness with sourness - some do.
> 
> as you say... so many parameters. Change one thing at a time and go from there. Try reducing or eliminating pre-infusion and see how it goes. Or maybe try a longer shot.


Shower screen looks nice and clean. Thanks for the advice. I received the Osmio Zero today. Water tastes really good but espresso even more acidic. Then I met my local roaster to collect my weekly pack of beans and discussed the roast and my preparation technique with him. He said I am not the only customer who found the bean too acidic. His light roasts are fantastic for V60 and aeropress but it could be that the darker roast does not hold what's promised. I thought I'd try a safe dark roast Brazilian espresso bean with little acidity as a reference. Just ordered the Pact House espresso. I might have to add bicarbonate to increase pH.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## TonyBatty

Hi all, I've (today) replaced my Izzo Vivi PID with a Lelit Ellizabeth after much reading of this and the Mara thread, and am looking forward to getting to know her.

The water in my area is pretty good and I haven't had a noticeable problem with scale over the 10 years I've had the Vivi but thought I might as well use the softener cartridge supplied. After removing the filter and putting the cartridge on the tube, it won't go through the water filler hole without some force and I'm concerned about not being able to get it out again if I do force it through. Before contacting BB I thought I'd check if anyone else has had this problem? ( And yes I have taken the return tube out before trying to put the cartridge in 😉)


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## eamon

I'm using the softener cartridge also. By water filler hole I assume you mean the hole at the top of the removable water tank.

I would say it's a snug fit, but no force needed.

I'm using the 35l version of this

https://espresso.lelit.com/accessorygroup/5


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## thbreith

TonyBatty said:


> Hi all, I've (today) replaced my Izzo Vivi PID with a Lelit Ellizabeth after much reading of this and the Mara thread, and am looking forward to getting to know her.
> The water in my area is pretty good and I haven't had a noticeable problem with scale over the 10 years I've had the Vivi but thought I might as well use the softener cartridge supplied. After removing the filter and putting the cartridge on the tube, it won't go through the water filler hole without some force and I'm concerned about not being able to get it out again if I do force it through. Before contacting BB I thought I'd check if anyone else has had this problem? ( And yes I have taken the return tube out before trying to put the cartridge in )


Congrats to your new machine. Great choice!! I am really enjoying mine. I still do lots of experimenting with all the different settings. It's great that the machine allows you to change so many variables so easily. 
I used the filter initially but recently got the Osmio zero which made the the softener redundant. The filter just fitted through the opening of the reservoir without need to use force or squeezing it in. But it was a very close fit. It should not touch the plastic of the reservoir when you introduce it. I would ask BB for advice. Perhaps they can send you a new reservoir.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Inspector

Well, i finally took the plunge and ordered Elizabeth from BB.

£200 saving would have been great from La machina but i chose two years of waranty and peace of mind. I am usually lucky with electronic stuff but you never know haha.

Also ordered Osmio Zero. Just moved to Cheshire from London, water is much softer here but brita couldnt get rid of the chlorine taste unfortunately. All arriving tomorrow. 👍


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## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> Well, i finally took the plunge and ordered Elizabeth from BB.
> 
> £200 saving would have been great from La machina but i chose two years of waranty and peace of mind. I am usually lucky with electronic stuff but you never know haha.
> 
> Also ordered Osmio Zero. Just moved to Cheshire from London, water is much softer here but brita couldnt get rid of the chlorine taste unfortunately. All arriving tomorrow. 👍


 Another one to the club! Don't worry, I'm just keeping an spreadsheet with date/time of order and your forum names, so I can get my commission from Bella Barista! 🤣🤣 (.... I wish!!!!!!!!)

Excellent choice! Enjoy it!


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## profesor_historia

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Another one to the club! Don't worry, I'm just keeping an spreadsheet with date/time of order and your forum names, so I can get my commission from Bella Barista!  (.... I wish!!!!!!!!)
> Excellent choice! Enjoy it!


Well to be honest I am also thinking a lot to buy one. Here in Madrid at ecafe.es the price is 1190€ shipping included , I am weighting a lot between the Elizabeth and the Silvia Pro which until December in Spain I think will have almost the same price. I know Elizabeth packs mucho more inside but I think I am Rancilio man .....or was.

Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Rickster1978

It's going to be my first purchase once the house move goes through


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## Inspector

This is very satisfying 😆 Elizabeth's water tank fits there nicely.


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## Inspector

Would Profitec naked portafilter fits Elizabeth? Anyone knows?

Strangely they are £7 cheaper than ECM, Rocket or Lelit ones on Edesia Espress.


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## DavecUK

Inspector said:


> Would Profitec naked portafilter fits Elizabeth? Anyone knows?
> 
> Strangely they are £7 cheaper than ECM, Rocket or Lelit ones on Edesia Espress.


 Almost certainly....


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> Would Profitec naked portafilter fits Elizabeth? Anyone knows?
> 
> Strangely they are £7 cheaper than ECM, Rocket or Lelit ones on Edesia Espress.


 Out of curiosity, do you have a link to such item?


----------



## Inspector

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Out of curiosity, do you have a link to such item?


 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284032136499


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## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284032136499


 Thought so. It's not OEM. It's just an aftermarket generic brand Edesia Espress. (See box). It will fit, but it's not a genuine Profitec one.

pother people here have bought that brand. Apparently the PF quality is good, but the basket is poorly made (not and issue if you are not going to use it).

and the reason I ask.... it's because I never seen a Profitec branded bottomless PF! Only ECM! 👍


----------



## Inspector

Yes, it's not OEM. They are probably all the same portafilters, I still don't know why this one is £25 and others are £32.50.

Walnut handle naked portafilter for £25, can't complain really. I should have mentioned it in my first question as Profitec compatible aftermarket rather than Profitec 👍

I won't be using triple shot basket that comes with it, I will add it to the bundle when I am selling Gaggia Classic 😁


----------



## ZiggyMarley

can someone remind me, is there anyway to switch off the 30 minute energy saving mode?

It is a pain to wait for it to heat up when I rush downstairs to make a coffee in the 2 mins I have between meetings. Yes it gets back to temp fast, but not fast enough for me.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> can someone remind me, is there anyway to switch off the 30 minute energy saving mode?
> 
> It is a pain to wait for it to heat up when I rush downstairs to make a coffee in the 2 mins I have between meetings. Yes it gets back to temp fast, but not fast enough for me.


 First post on this thread... there's a link with a review. It shows you how to do it.


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## Inspector

To do so switch the machine on whilst holding in coffee button 2, the water button LED will be flashing if standby is on, and off, if standby is disabled.


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## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> First post on this thread... there's a link with a review. It shows you how to do it.


 ta, I knew I'd seen it before somewhere. Strange Lelit don't give users the full info the manual


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## ZiggyMarley

Inspector said:


> To do so switch the machine on whilst holding in coffee button 2, the water button LED will be flashing if standby is on, and off, if standby is disabled.


 so this is every time you switch it on? or will the change we permanent.


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## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> ta, I knew I'd seen it before somewhere. Strange Lelit don't give users the full info the manual


 I was going to mention that. Mine came with an additional leaflet. I think it tells you there. Not sure.


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## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> so this is every time you switch it on? or will the change we permanent.


 Permanently. It's like a toggle switch.


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## arturhoo

Got a proper 58.4 tamper yesterday and managed to get the first decent espresso:

VST 18g basket, 20g in, 40g out in 27 seconds using Milk Beach El Salvador (https://www.milkbeach.com/shop/duromina-azpsf-ns9ge) that was ground for me on purchase last week (kept in an Airscape) - I believe the key was really updosing to 20g, I might even push it to 20.5g as there seemed to be enough room in the basket still. This was also the first time the puck didn't stick to the shower screen.

To prepare for the lockdown I went to Kaffeine yesterday and got some freshly ground Red Brick (asked them to not change the grind setting) and will try to dial it in just based on dose and tamp pressure while I wait for my Niche (hoping for an early dispatch).

Also, I just noticed that the double basket that came with the Elizabeth is different from the one that came with the naked portafilter - one is smaller than the other. I might experiment with those as well as I remember reading that the VST requires a finer grind.


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## profesor_historia

arturhoo said:


> Got a proper 58.4 tamper yesterday and managed to get the first decent espresso:
> VST 18g basket, 20g in, 40g out in 27 seconds using Milk Beach El Salvador (https://www.milkbeach.com/shop/duromina-azpsf-ns9ge) that was ground for me on purchase last week (kept in an Airscape) - I believe the key was really updosing to 20g, I might even push it to 20.5g as there seemed to be enough room in the basket still. This was also the first time the puck didn't stick to the shower screen.
> To prepare for the lockdown I went to Kaffeine yesterday and got some freshly ground Red Brick (asked them to not change the grind setting) and will try to dial it in just based on dose and tamp pressure while I wait for my Niche (hoping for an early dispatch).
> Also, I just noticed that the double basket that came with the Elizabeth is different from the one that came with the naked portafilter - one is smaller than the other. I might experiment with those as well as I remember reading that the VST requires a finer grind.


You will buy a grinder I imagine no?

Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## arturhoo

profesor_historia said:


> You will buy a grinder I imagine no?
> 
> Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


 Yes, as mentioned I have a Niche on pre-order due to be delivered in December 😀 - it's going to be a long wait.


----------



## profesor_historia

arturhoo said:


> Yes, as mentioned I have a Niche on pre-order due to be delivered in December  - it's going to be a long wait.


Sorry, didn't see that. Did you think of grabbing some used economic grinder to use it until Niche arrives? Or the Rok for example, new is not so expensive.

Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## arturhoo

profesor_historia said:


> Sorry, didn't see that. Did you think of grabbing some used economic grinder to use it until Niche arrives? Or the Rok for example, new is not so expensive.
> 
> Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


 Yeah, I considered it. I wasn't planning to get the Elizabeth until the Niche arrived, but a combination of Covid uncertainties, limited stock with lamacchinadelcaffe and Brexit looming made me pull the trigger earlier.

The hassle of selling it later is worse than the one month (which is not terribly long of a wait) and hey, it will make me appreciate the Niche more once it arrives 😛.


----------



## L2en

arturhoo said:


> Yeah, I considered it. I wasn't planning to get the Elizabeth until the Niche arrived, but a combination of Covid uncertainties, limited stock with lamacchinadelcaffe and Brexit looming made me pull the trigger earlier.
> 
> The hassle of selling it later is worse than the one month (which is not terribly long of a wait) and hey, it will make me appreciate the Niche more once it arrives 😛.


 I'm on a very similar boat. I have a grinder, but still waiting for the Niche before I order. Honestly, I would probably wait longer, but Brexit is the nightmare situation which made me decide to upgrade earlier. Is your italian lamacchinadelcaffe Elizabeth the V3?

Fingers crossed the December delivery dates will come early.


----------



## arturhoo

L2en said:


> I'm on a very similar boat. I have a grinder, but still waiting for the Niche before I order. Honestly, I would probably wait longer, but Brexit is the nightmare situation which made me decide to upgrade earlier. Is your italian lamacchinadelcaffe Elizabeth the V3?
> 
> Fingers crossed the December delivery dates will come early.


 Yes. I got mine (V3) from lamacchinadelcaffe - I chatted with them before buying and they mentioned they only had 2 in stock. I know another person who bought one after me, so I assume they got more stock this week.

Yeah, Brexit could mean a weaker pound and import hassles, so I wanted to move fast since the 1040€ price tag was very attractive (I was originally considering the Victoria).


----------



## L2en

arturhoo said:


> Yes. I got mine (V3) from lamacchinadelcaffe - I chatted with them before buying and they mentioned they only had 2 in stock. I know another person who bought one after me, so I assume they got more stock this week.
> 
> Yeah, Brexit could mean a weaker pound and import hassles, so I wanted to move fast since the 1040€ price tag was very attractive (I was originally considering the Victoria).


 Good information, thank you. I'm still undecided if I want MaraX or Elizabeth. Elizabeth is the cheaper option in some european countries (I've checked german, dutch, czech and slovakian shops + those few italian I know from here). Normally I would much prefer to buy from a british shop, but I'm absolutly not sure, if I will be here for long, I may move back to Europe next year after the 22 years in the UK, so that european plug would be actually useful😀 plus the guarantee is not as important issue as it would have been before. I think I will really have to toss a coin in the end🙂


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

L2en said:


> Good information, thank you. I'm still undecided if I want MaraX or Elizabeth.


 What do you want from your machine? Do you plan to leave it on all day? Do you value fast heat up time? Do you rate the E61 group, with its pros and cons? Do you want a top-end HX machine or do you want an entry level, feature-rich dual boiler machine? Do you care about wasted water? Forget price for the moment, as in the grand scheme of things, it's irrelevant in the long term. You need to ask yourself what do you want..


----------



## Doram

L2en said:


> I may move back to Europe next year after the 22 years in the UK, so that european plug would be actually useful


 The EU vs. UK plug isn't an issue for Mara X and Elizabeth, as they are both powered with a simple detachable kettle/computer lead, which you can very cheaply replace according to which sockets you have (the machines have a socket at the back, so you just pull out the lead and replace it with whatever lead you want).


----------



## L2en

MediumRoastSteam said:


> What do you want from your machine? Do you plan to leave it on all day? Do you value fast heat up time? Do you rate the E61 group, with its pros and cons? Do you want a top-end HX machine or do you want an entry level, feature-rich dual boiler machine? Do you care about wasted water? Forget price for the moment, as in the grand scheme of things, it's irrelevant in the long term. You need to ask yourself what do you want..


 I did ask myself all these questions, but still can't decide. It swings slightly the Elizabeth way because of the water wastage, to be honest. And i do prefer to have the machine on all day, but I have probably missed the information on which one is better in that respect. I'm not that concerned about the price, it just surprised me that the Elizabeth is cheaper than MaraX elswhere.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

L2en said:


> I did ask myself all these questions, but still can't decide. It swings slightly the Elizabeth way because of the water wastage, to be honest. And i do prefer to have the machine on all day, but I have probably missed the information on which one is better in that respect. I'm not that concerned about the price, it just surprised me that the Elizabeth is cheaper than MaraX elswhere.


 What's your budget? Have you considered the Minima or the Bianca?


----------



## L2en

MediumRoastSteam said:


> What's your budget? Have you considered the Minima or the Bianca?


 i have considered the Minima, I love the look of Minima, however some experiences I've read have put me off, namely leaking boilers and sharp edges, I have autistic child at home, have to be careful. Bianca is a bit of overkill for me, I think. i'm the only coffee drinker in the house, I just don't want to spend that much on myself.


----------



## Doram

L2en said:


> And i do prefer to have the machine on all day, but I have probably missed the information on which one is better in that respect.


 Elizabeth with both boilers on uses more energy than Mara X. With the steam boiler off, it uses less energy than Mara.

Mara heats up in 24 minutes, Elizabeth in 17 (I think).

While there are differences, I don't think you will get a definitive answer from small spec differences. It's going to be an emotional choice and experience, so ultimately gut feeling? 🙂

On the positive side, you probably can't go very wrong with either of them, and you can probably sell any of them and get the other one if you change your mind, as they are so popular.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

L2en said:


> i have considered the Minima, I love the look of Minima, however some experiences I've read have put me off, namely leaking boilers and sharp edges, I have autistic child at home, have to be careful. Bianca is a bit of overkill for me, I think. i'm the only coffee drinker in the house, I just don't want to spend that much on myself.


 OK. So maybe you don't want the exposed E61 group, very hot, exposed and protruding on the machine? If that's a concern, combined with water wastage issues currently with the MaraX, makes the Elizabeth the machine for you, by elimination. If you can buy cheaper in the continent, why not? Even better. Remember that both machines use a kettle/computer lead/cord, so there's no need to swap plugs. All you need is a new cord with the right plug, it's readily available from many places.


----------



## arturhoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Remember that both machines use a kettle/computer lead/cord, so there's no need to swap plugs. All you need is a new cord with the right plug, it's readily available from many places.


 Exactly! I bought this cheap £3.50 cord (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01ITNKMV6) since mine came with a EU plug. The only issue would be with voltage if moving to a 110v country.



Doram said:


> Mara heats up in 24 minutes, Elizabeth in 17 (I think).


 I need to measure the heat up time for my Elizabeth - I believe mine comes to temperature in less than 10 minutes, especially if you run some water through.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

arturhoo said:


> Exactly! I bought this cheap £3.50 cord (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01ITNKMV6) since mine came with a EU plug. The only issue would be with voltage if moving to a 110v country.
> 
> I need to measure the heat up time for my Elizabeth - I believe mine comes to temperature in less than 10 minutes, especially if you run some water through.


 @L2en says he might be moving to Europe. Nowhere in Europe is 110v 🙂 - not that I know of, at least!

Heatup time of Elizabeth is around 17 minutes. This is NOT the boiler getting up to temperature: This is the time the group is stable and ready to brew. This consists of:

- Machine heating up from cold, and brew boiler heating to approx 120C on display (130C) inside boiler;
- Cooling all the way down to 93C on the group (103C) inside the boiler;
- Wait two minutes at that temperature.

(you'd only be able to see this if you switch the machine to show you the *actual* temperature and not the *target *temperature, which is the default setting.

The steam boiler comes up to temperature in no time, like, 5 minutes from cold, if that.


----------



## arturhoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> (you'd only be able to see this if you switch the machine to show you the *actual* temperature and not the *target *temperature, which is the default setting.


 Yeah, my measurements are not after OK is displayed, but checking manually the temperature by pressing the + button twice.


----------



## eamon

arturhoo said:


> Exactly! I bought this cheap £3.50 cord (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01ITNKMV6) since mine came with a EU plug. The only issue would be with voltage if moving to a 110v country.
> 
> I need to measure the heat up time for my Elizabeth - I believe mine comes to temperature in less than 10 minutes, especially if you run some water through.


 The power rating on that lead looks ok, but as a warning for others, when I was browsing amazon sometimes the "kettle lead" is in quotes. As in the fitting is a kettle lead but it only has the power rating for a computer monitor or similar, not an actual kettle (or coffee machine).


----------



## DavecUK

arturhoo said:


> Yeah, my measurements are not after OK is displayed, but checking manually the temperature by pressing the + button twice.


 I'd recommend you use the settings in my review for Elizabeth.....there is an LCC settings sway document as well, handy to have on the phone next to the machine.

Niche will rock your world compared to pre-ground beans...you are in for a treat in December!


----------



## L2en

MediumRoastSteam said:


> OK. So maybe you don't want the exposed E61 group, very hot, exposed and protruding on the machine? If that's a concern, combined with water wastage issues currently with the MaraX, makes the Elizabeth the machine for you, by elimination. If you can buy cheaper in the continent, why not? Even better. Remember that both machines use a kettle/computer lead/cord, so there's no need to swap plugs. All you need is a new cord with the right plug, it's readily available from many places.


Why have I not thought of the hot E61? You are right of course. I think that is decided then. It will be Elizabeth.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## arturhoo

DavecUK said:


> I'd recommend you use the settings in my review for Elizabeth.....there is an LCC settings sway document as well, handy to have on the phone next to the machine.


 Thanks for the reminder. I'll be setting TR1 = 1 on it.

Out of curiosity, what are the different values for `PRG` actually changing? Is it the purge pressure/volume? And once again, thanks for making it available to us


----------



## DavecUK

arturhoo said:


> Thanks for the reminder. I'll be setting TR1 = 1 on it.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what are the different values for `PRG` actually changing? Is it the purge pressure/volume? And once again, thanks for making it available to us


 Just the duration, if I remember correctly.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

arturhoo said:


> Thanks for the reminder. I'll be setting TR1 = 1 on it.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what are the different values for `PRG` actually changing? Is it the purge pressure/volume? And once again, thanks for making it available to us


 Man! You'll be in for treat in December for sure! It makes a lot of difference, taste wise.

For the LCC, stick to the values below, as per Dave's review.

Default LCC advanced settings: (default / recommended (explanation))

KPc: 2.0 / 0.2

KIc: 0.04 / 0.07

KDc: 1.00 / 10

Bc: 30 (temp range over PID)

KPs: 2.0

KIs: 0.00

KDs: 20.00 / 0.00

Bs: 30 / 1 (temperature range over PID)

Ec: 10 (offset brew boiler)

Es: 5 / 0 (Steam offset)

F01: 1 (illumination)

TR: 0 / 1 (actual vs set temperature )

EVS: 1 (Steam pre-infusion on/off)

BLS1: 1 / 3 (steam pre infusion)

BLS2: 1 / 3

BLP1: 2 / 5 (bloom pre infusion)

BLP2: 2 / 5

PRG: 5 / 6 (purge function)


----------



## Del

eamon said:


> The power rating on that lead looks ok, but as a warning for others, when I was browsing amazon sometimes the "kettle lead" is in quotes. As in the fitting is a kettle lead but it only has the power rating for a computer monitor or similar, not an actual kettle (or coffee machine).


 That lead is rated for 10 amps (says on one of the pictures and also 2300w/230v=10A (note, this is a rough calculation but there or there about with AC power). I'd put money on a 13A fuse being in the plug though, though it's not a huge problem.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Del said:


> That lead is rated for 10 amps (says on one of the pictures and also 2300w/230v=10A (note, this is a rough calculation but there or there about with AC power). I'd put money on a 13A fuse being in the plug though, though it's not a huge problem.


 The Elizabeth "herself?" Will draw 1300W, so under 6A on 230V. In the eventuality that the Elizabeth decides to draw twice as much power - very unlikely - the lead might melt before the fuse and catch fire in the process.

I just looked at the one I have: it says the wire is 0.75mm2, and it has a 13A fuse fitted. Suppose, in the grand scheme of things, I could just fit a 6A fuse on my plug, just to be on the safe side?

I just checked the leads that came with the machine. Both are 1mm2 wires, and, as far as I know , rated for 10amp at 230V (2300W approx).

the UK version has a 13A fuse.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

arturhoo said:


> Exactly! I bought this cheap £3.50 cord (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01ITNKMV6) since mine came with a EU plug. The only issue would be with voltage if moving to a 110v country.
> 
> I need to measure the heat up time for my Elizabeth - I believe mine comes to temperature in less than 10 minutes, especially if you run some water through.


 Mine took, from 8C on the display, machine using both boilers:

- 11 minutes until OK - display shows 118C (took 8 minutes from 34C in Eco mode - 3.5h hours later after my first round in the morning)
- another 8 minutes to go down to 93C and stabilise there.


----------



## Del

MediumRoastSteam said:


> The Elizabeth "herself?" Will draw 1300W, so under 6A on 230V. In the eventuality that the Elizabeth decides to draw twice as much power - very unlikely - the lead might melt before the fuse and catch fire in the process.
> 
> I just looked at the one I have: it says the wire is 0.75mm2, and it has a 13A fuse fitted. Suppose, in the grand scheme of things, I could just fit a 6A fuse on my plug, just to be on the safe side?


 That'd be the safest bet, but it's unlikely that the cable will spontaneously combust either way at that current draw. The only problem would be if the boilers were overdrawing power as they got older or the pump was struggling but that's unlikely to happen for a long duration so unlikely to damage the cable. Also I'm assuming it's a short lead so again, not a major problem.

Plugs are only usually an issue if the plug itself is of poor quality (they can weld themselves into sockets) or the lead is poorly made and has loose connections and/or is on for a long time (fan heaters are the worst!).


----------



## kico

arturhoo said:


> Yes, as mentioned I have a Niche on pre-order due to be delivered in December  - it's going to be a long wait.


I'm also waiting for the niche zero for my mara x. Hopefully it arrives in a week or so!!

Waiting patiently for the dispatch email as I placed one of the first orders for Dec delivery.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## arturhoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Mine took, from 8C on the display, machine using both boilers:
> 
> - 11 minutes until OK - display shows 118C (took 8 minutes from 34C in Eco mode - 3.5h hours later after my first round in the morning)
> - another 8 minutes to go down to 93C and stabilise there.


 Measured this afternoon, machine was turned off. Starting from 16º:

- 8 minutes to OK
- another 4 minutes to go down to 94º (I ran hot water for 2s)
- another 2 minutes to stabilize (hovering between 93-95º)



kico said:


> I'm also waiting for the niche zero for my mara x. Hopefully it arrives in a week or so!!
> 
> Waiting patiently for the dispatch email as I placed one of the first orders for Dec delivery.


 Same here!! Would love to get it in November still.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

arturhoo said:


> Measured this afternoon, machine was turned off. Starting from 16º:
> 
> - 8 minutes to OK
> - another 4 minutes to go down to 94º (I ran hot water for 2s)
> - another 2 minutes to stabilize (hovering between 93-95º)
> 
> Same here!! Would love to get it in November still.


 Which settings are you using in the PID? Factory or Dave's?


----------



## arturhoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Which settings are you using in the PID? Factory or Dave's?


 Still factory, planning to update the settings this weekend.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

arturhoo said:


> Still factory, planning to update the settings this weekend.


 Cool. I'll do this again tomorrow just to double check, and stay by the machine this time, instead of trying to cook breakfast and get my son out of bed and get him ready to go to school! 🤣


----------



## profesor_historia

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Cool. I'll do this again tomorrow just to double check, and stay by the machine this time, instead of trying to cook breakfast and get my son out of bed and get him ready to go to school!


Tomorrow's Saturday, there is no school 

Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam

profesor_historia said:


> Tomorrow's Saturday, there is no school
> 
> Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


 Precisely! Unlike today! ????


----------



## Del

So this happened....


----------



## Inspector

Members in the club are getting more and more. Nice.

I should change my signature at some point btw 😀


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Del said:


> So this happened....https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wj50IpkvneFgp2rh03B3r39-Q-LDGiIi3mG94KBXrhv7nkuu9TctvxyxDztnst1JFgE92CYLSAuAHFaGxLPLEGITTWVM14SJuGcKx8Gu-pwzVhS148ZzVjan3KXSjSodDBc8Y6Mt6DUznhirH3VOJIHgXl6jCLO7N54EzU1EYCHBh2HWlPwu16GImQFWX1YV_OfAp9YpnhJrklMdph3az__JyvN0dbosc0Lj5uoltQs7rHz8rTt0z64GBgCNW5vNwdxbI7dpFbTEnnMyvxswZQCNDKJpidZiUHlcDmW8XTeYSXI1rtyPn5ldYQKyI8KZiGE9lgI4rL1Ls2XYNbEBkuET4co9GON6WsqBsMwwGU-8N0b-p8ZuDTa6KkQX9H9Aup4yzY8_sAMfvbT-uDhtSurC9wnP_N13Ml07J8YKBLZs1SJyLhj5_LQ4TvxQpc56a5y8jI5QR_2A3v-0R3aDkFTPWXDu6CAwQgyHSaRgOV64bgXixnZx291EGRUyPxn8poSeCoqEdlyEOxG_w5dV1M8BQiceELI1BC_adp3hM1p7yPjLsmmKuyIsuBBwvsob3lMq0e4DKbpkGcsw7R7y5jueYVZDCTQ7ZeGP8Uy6MZe69PvjozB066uS-8U7gK3SVDZYPxJncu0ll5SU60NEp5fK_VVqlzTKpjB50Jl0Y3HxKwp31OLwwGxV-8MgEss=w1204-h903-no?authuser=0


 Can't see your photo! But assuming it's a new shiny machine?


----------



## Del

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Can't see your photo! But assuming it's a new shiny machine?


 Edited! Yea, after much procrastinating we went for the Elizabeth!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Del said:


> Edited! Yea, after much procrastinating we went for the Elizabeth!


 I can see your photo on Tapatalk! Very nice! Any plans to upgrade that Encore?


----------



## Del

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I can see your photo on Tapatalk! Very nice! Any plans to upgrade that Encore?


 I have a Niche coming in the December batch. Seems to be a very popular combination!


----------



## thbreith

Del said:


> I have a Niche coming in the December batch. Seems to be a very popular combination!


Very popular combination indeed. They work very well together. We can share recipes...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam

thbreith said:


> Very popular combination indeed. They work very well together. We can share recipes...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 At this rate, we can have an Elizabeth forum meet up!


----------



## Del

Pulled 5 shots though it now, seem to have it pretty much dialled in for some local roasted beans, 18g/~38g out (not used to the buttons yet, they require more of a push then I've been giving them!) at about 37 seconds on default button 2 at 93c. Coffee out is really good!

Made some hot chocolates with the steam last night. Wasn't quite ready for the power of that wand, need to practice that part!

Going to have a play with it and try DaveC's settings, 100% need to change the display to show current not target temp.

Love it so far!!! Quiet pump, smooth and controlled water and not to mention it's a beautiful lump of metal! Thought I'd be itching to change the portafilter for a naked one like I had on the Gaggia but I do like the weight of the default one. Something about it being terribly balanced, all the weight at the end, that I really like...

...yea, I'm odd.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

So, monitored again. From 8C, both boilers heating, using Dave's PID settings:

5:30 - Service/steam boiler was up to temp to 140C.
7:20 - Brew boiler reaches target temperature of 93C (103C real temperature inside the boiler).
11:40 - OK displayed. LCC shows 120C.
20:30 - target temperature of 93C displayed.
22:00 - group stable.

So, from what I gather, it might be that using Lelit default settings the machine heats up faster it seems?


----------



## arturhoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> At this rate, we can have an Elizabeth forum meet up!


 Not a bad idea once the whole thing is over 



MediumRoastSteam said:


> So, from what I gather, it might be that using Lelit default settings the machine heats up faster it seems?


 I can't think of any other reason. I'll change the settings today and report back tomorrow or the day after.



Del said:


> (not used to the buttons yet, they require more of a push then I've been giving them!)


 It also took me some getting used to. You need to be firm when pressing them (not necessarily hard).



Del said:


> Thought I'd be itching to change the portafilter for a naked one like I had on the Gaggia but


 I'm on the opposite side - I've only used the naked PF so far, in an attempt to debug my shots a little better. While they're getting less messy as I get used to the setup, there's still some cleaning up to do after pulling shots. I might switch back to double PF until my Niche arrives.

Welcome to the club!!


----------



## Del

MediumRoastSteam said:


> So, monitored again. From 8C, both boilers heating, using Dave's PID settings:
> 
> 5:30 - Service/steam boiler was up to temp to 140C.
> 7:20 - Brew boiler reaches target temperature of 93C (103C real temperature inside the boiler).
> 11:40 - OK displayed. LCC shows 120C.
> 20:30 - target temperature of 93C displayed.
> 22:00 - group stable.
> 
> So, from what I gather, it might be that using Lelit default settings the machine heats up faster it seems?


 Are you using an external temperature monitor or the internal ones to test this? I've a rather nice dual channel thermometer I 'acquired' (legally, just about) that I've used once in 3 years that's crying out to be used.



arturhoo said:


> Not a bad idea once the whole thing is over
> 
> I can't think of any other reason. I'll change the settings today and report back tomorrow or the day after.
> 
> It also took me some getting used to. You need to be firm when pressing them (not necessarily hard).
> 
> I'm on the opposite side - I've only used the naked PF so far, in an attempt to debug my shots a little better. While they're getting less messy as I get used to the setup, there's still some cleaning up to do after pulling shots. I might switch back to double PF until my Niche arrives.
> 
> Welcome to the club!!


 Thanks! Are you also a December Niche recipient?


----------



## arturhoo

Del said:


> Thanks! Are you also a December Niche recipient?


 Yes, order placed on October 7th.


----------



## L2en

arturhoo said:


> Yes, order placed on October 7th.


 I ordered Niche on the exact same day. They still have not released new preorder batch, so I'm not holding my breath for early delivery. I'm waiting for Niche to order the new machine, I'm incredibly patient😄


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Del said:


> Are you using an external temperature monitor or the internal ones to test this?


 No. Just reading whatever the LCC display reports back. You can press + once / twice to see the actual temperature of steam/brew boilers (this includes the programmed offsets, of course - so 93 in the display for brew is actually 103C if the offset is 10C).



arturhoo said:


> in an attempt to debug my shots


 Are you a software engineer by any chance?



Del said:


> not used to the buttons yet, they require more of a push then I've been giving them!


 Think I read somewhere they are micro switches, positioned right in the middle. As long as you hit the button at the centre, It'll respond well.



arturhoo said:


> I'll change the settings today and report back tomorrow or the day after.


 👍 - not that it matters in the grand scheme of things, but we must know this for the sake of science and Proportional, Integral and Derivative algorithms for temperature management devices. 😂😂


----------



## arturhoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Are you a software engineer by any chance?


 Yup 😅



MediumRoastSteam said:


> 👍 - not that it matters in the grand scheme of things, but we must know this for the sake of science and Proportional, Integral and Derivative algorithms for temperature management devices. 😂😂


 My thoughts exactly!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Are you a software engineer by any chance?





arturhoo said:


> Yup 😅


 Welcome to the club! 🤣


----------



## Tempest

Gave the Mignon a good deep clean today and had to dial back in after because I'd done some shimming to align it better as well as started a new bean. This process was so much easier with a machine that becomes temp stable again in less time than it takes you to prep the basket for the next shot. Latte art is coming along slowly but surely! Those are layers in the heart, picture seems a bit blurry.


----------



## Gavin Beckett

Great thread, I'm heading rapidly towards buying an Elizabeth now! @DavecUKyour video reviews are really great. One question - where's the outlet for the purges and backflushes? I'm used to seeing the water come out of my Gaggia Classic through the metal tube into the drip tray - I assume there's a hidden pipe somewhere behind the fascia going into the drip tray?


----------



## Del

Gavin Beckett said:


> Great thread, I'm heading rapidly towards buying an Elizabeth now! @DavecUKyour video reviews are really great. One question - where's the outlet for the purges and backflushes? I'm used to seeing the water come out of my Gaggia Classic through the metal tube into the drip tray - I assume there's a hidden pipe somewhere behind the fascia going into the drip tray?


 I discovered the outlet when I removed the drip tray, it's like you said, behind the facia somewhere.


----------



## Gavin Beckett

Thanks @Del I'm rapidly getting to the "how quickly will it arrive if I buy it now" phase 😂


----------



## DavecUK

Gavin Beckett said:


> Thanks @Del I'm rapidly getting to the "how quickly will it arrive if I buy it now" phase 😂


 It's an exciting time 😉


----------



## Del

I ordered one on Thursday at 1100, turned up on Friday at 1230 from Bella Barista. It can be quick!


----------



## DavecUK

Del said:


> I ordered one on Thursday at 1100, turned up on Friday at 1230 from Bella Barista. It can be quick!


 If they have stock, they turn orders around rapidly.


----------



## Gavin Beckett

Del said:


> I ordered one on Thursday at 1100, turned up on Friday at 1230 from Bella Barista. It can be quick!


 Wow! That's brilliant... i just set up an account and have the Lelit Elizabeth page open in browser 😂 there goes my savings... 💷🔥


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Gavin Beckett said:


> Wow! That's brilliant... i just set up an account and have the Lelit Elizabeth page open in browser 😂 there goes my savings... 💷🔥


 Question is... did you you click "pay now" in the last step? 😂


----------



## Gavin Beckett

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Question is... did you you click "pay now" in the last step? 😂


 I did!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Gavin Beckett said:


> I did!


 Welcome to the club!!!


----------



## L2en

Gavin Beckett said:


> I did!


 Congratulations, I hope you will enjoy it. I'm still waiting for the grinder as I want to try it with my Silvia first, I want to experience the difference. Don't want to have two machines next to each other, they would fit no problem, but I'm worried I would keep them both forever😄


----------



## Tempest

Gavin Beckett said:


> I did!


 You won't regret it!


----------



## Gavin Beckett

My Lelit Elizabeth has shipped already... should arrive tomorrow


----------



## Inspector

Is there a way to bypass steam pre infusion while the steam boiler is on and make a bloom pre infusion instead. Or only way is to steam milk first then switch off steam boiler and pull a shot?

I liked the taste of bloom pre infusion with mystery 13 beans.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> Is there a way to bypass steam pre infusion while the steam boiler is on and make a bloom pre infusion instead. Or only way is to steam milk first then switch off steam boiler and pull a shot?
> 
> I liked the taste of bloom pre infusion with mystery 13 beans.


 Turn the steam boiler off. It will be for 1 minute, max. The steam boiler would not suffer that much.

Alternatively......

in advanced settings, switch the setting EVS from 1 to 0. This will disable steam pre-infusion all together.


----------



## Inspector

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Turn the steam boiler off. It will be for 1 minute, max. The steam boiler would not suffer that much.
> 
> Alternatively......
> 
> in advanced settings, switch the setting EVS from 1 to 0. This will disable steam pre-infusion all together.


 EVS 0 is the one. How did I miss this in the sway document. Thanks.


----------



## Gavin Beckett

And here it is... now to familiarise myself with the controls... and then make a coffee


----------



## spookydoo

I've noticed a slowing up of the steam activation on the Elizabeth over the past week or so. It's now taking a few seconds for the steam to come through properly and is preceded by drips of water. Steaming power is unaffected, it's just the time it takes to get there. Previously the steam was pretty much instantaneous.

I've been pretty diligent with purging and wiping after use so wouldn't expect any blockage or contaminant inside the wand. Machine is still at factory settings and warmed up to the OK before use.

Anyone had this problem/any ideas what may be wrong?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

spookydoo said:


> I've noticed a slowing up of the steam activation on the Elizabeth over the past week or so. It's now taking a few seconds for the steam to come through properly and is preceded by drips of water. Steaming power is unaffected, it's just the time it takes to get there. Previously the steam was pretty much instantaneous.
> 
> I've been pretty diligent with purging and wiping after use so wouldn't expect any blockage or contaminant inside the wand. Machine is still at factory settings and warmed up to the OK before use.
> 
> Anyone had this problem/any ideas what may be wrong?


 Hello. So that I understand:

when you say "it's taking a few seconds for the steam to come through" - what do you mean? They you open the steam tap, count to 3 and steam shoots out? Or is it preceded by condensation? You know what I'm going to ask next don't you? It would be great if you could video this, focusing on the steam wand and the tap.


----------



## spookydoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Hello. So that I understand:
> 
> when you say "it's taking a few seconds for the steam to come through" - what do you mean? They you open the steam tap, count to 3 and steam shuts out? Or is it preceded by condensation? You know what I'm going to ask next don't you? It would be great if you could video this, focusing on the steam wand and the tap.


 From memory - turn tap on, water drips briefly come out of wand then steam kicks slowly at first and ramps up to full pressure shortly afterwards. I'll attempt to upload a video in the morning.


----------



## Inspector

spookydoo said:


> I've noticed a slowing up of the steam activation on the Elizabeth over the past week or so. It's now taking a few seconds for the steam to come through properly and is preceded by drips of water. Steaming power is unaffected, it's just the time it takes to get there. Previously the steam was pretty much instantaneous.
> 
> I've been pretty diligent with purging and wiping after use so wouldn't expect any blockage or contaminant inside the wand. Machine is still at factory settings and warmed up to the OK before use.
> 
> Anyone had this problem/any ideas what may be wrong?


 A video showing that would be very helpful for us to comment.


----------



## spookydoo

Here is the video showing the machine spluttering before the steam came through.

/monthly_2020_11/20201114_114942.mp4.ca218a8442aa6ba053a02ab0b9bb28e0.mp4" type="video/mp4">
View attachment 20201114_114942.mp4


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@spookydoo - is there no audio on that video? I can't tell when the steam starts or ends?

also, where the steam temperature set to? Could you click on the plus button on the LCC once/twice to check the actual boilers temp?

it's hard to tell without audio, so no comments for now.


----------



## spookym

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @spookydoo - is there no audio on that video? I can't tell when the steam starts or ends?
> 
> also, where the steam temperature set to? Could you click on the plus button on the LCC once/twice to check the actual boilers temp?


 Audio is there for me. Definately takes longer to come through than my machine


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

spookym said:


> Audio is there for me. Definately takes longer to come through than my machine


 Oh. Let me try different computer. Thanks!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Damn Safari! Works fine on Google Chrome. Doesn't work at all on Tapatalk...

Anyway. Yeah. Something seems odd.

@spookydoo - Have you tried removing the steam tip and see if there's a blockage there? Do that, and check the holes. And blow steam out without the tip on just to rule that out.

On mine, I do get quite a bit of condensation on the first blast from cold.

Also, Let us know your steam temperature, and whether you have changed anything from the factory settings.

At a guess... Something is blocked somewhere.

See my video here, at around 2:20. It's almost instant!

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/?do=embed&comment=787785&embedComment=787785&embedDo=findComment


----------



## spookydoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Damn Safari! Works fine on Google Chrome. Doesn't work at all on Tapatalk...
> 
> Anyway. Yeah. Something seems odd.
> 
> @spookydoo - Have you tried removing the steam tip and see if there's a blockage there? Do that, and check the holes. And blow steam out without the tip on just to rule that out.
> 
> On mine, I do get quite a bit of condensation on the first blast from cold.
> 
> Also, Let us know your steam temperature, and whether you have changed anything from the factory settings.
> 
> At a guess... Something is blocked somewhere.
> 
> See my video here, at around 2:20. It's almost instant!
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/?do=embed&comment=787785&embedComment=787785&embedDo=findComment


 Yeah, sorry about the rotation on the video. I couldn't get sound either (running firefox on windows) but glad it's now been heard. I was getting the steam to come through as per your video until recently so may well be a blockage inside. steam was at 135c, all settings as per factory.

how do you remove the steam tip?


----------



## Del

It's just threaded on.


----------



## DavecUK

This is how it should be depending on whether the temperature is right. I probably had it set to 135C


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I have changed the Bc parameter from 30 (default). Bc is defined as "temperature range over PID", which, to my understanding, means the temperature range in which the PID works from the set point. This means that, if your temperature is set to 93C and Bc is 30, then the PID algorithm will be applied when the temperature is is within the range from 78C to 108C, so 15C (half of 30) each side of the target temperature. If outside of that range, the element will be fully on when below and off when above, as opposed to trying to climb and get there carefully, without overshooting when is within range.

Using @DavecUK recommended settings, I have now changed Bc to 16, as an experiment.

So... what happened? Well, the obvious! 😂 - The machine took less time to heat up from cold (3 to 4 minutes quicker overall) and it seems to recover quicker from a shot - I think it was @Inspector who made an observation by watching my video that the machine took about 1 minute to go back to 93C and stabilise. For the past few coffees, I noticed that, by time I went to steam milk, the temperature was already back where it should've been.

Anyway, not that this really matters in the grand scheme of things, but, in the interest of science and boredom, I thought I'd share. 🤣👍😊


----------



## spookydoo

> 18 hours ago, DavecUK said:
> 
> This is how it should be depending on whether the temperature is right. I probably had it set to 135C


 I've removed the steam tip and there was a small amount of stuff in there that I managed to get out. Figured that was the culprit but when I came to steam some milk the problem remains. Dripping water and then steam coming through but doesn't seem an even flow and not as powerful as it should be. Tested without the tip on the wand as well but no improvement. Assuming there could be a blockage further up I guess the next step is to remove the entire steam wand.

Is this advisable and if so anything to be aware of? Or should i contact Bella Barista before attempting this?


----------



## DavecUK

spookydoo said:


> I've removed the steam tip and there was a small amount of stuff in there that I managed to get out. Figured that was the culprit but when I came to steam some milk the problem remains. Dripping water and then steam coming through but doesn't seem an even flow and not as powerful as it should be. Tested without the tip on the wand as well but no improvement. Assuming there could be a blockage further up I guess the next step is to remove the entire steam wand.
> 
> Is this advisable and if so anything to be aware of? Or should i contact Bella Barista before attempting this?


 I think you should contact Bella Barista.....When the tip is not on the wand steam is always weak because it drops the pressure dramatically. It would be nice also if you did a video and pressed the button on the display, so we could see the actual steam temperature. And whether something weird is happening *e.g. machine dropping into power saving mode without you being aware of it...releasing steam won't bump it out of that state etc..*

P.S, I assume power saving mode is off?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

spookydoo said:


> I've removed the steam tip and there was a small amount of stuff in there that I managed to get out. Figured that was the culprit but when I came to steam some milk the problem remains. Dripping water and then steam coming through but doesn't seem an even flow and not as powerful as it should be. Tested without the tip on the wand as well but no improvement. Assuming there could be a blockage further up I guess the next step is to remove the entire steam wand.
> 
> Is this advisable and if so anything to be aware of? Or should i contact Bella Barista before attempting this?


 What was inside the steam tip? We're the holes blocked in any way? If you put the tip back, holes clean, does it work as per videos?

@DavecUK - according to his video, machine is not in eco mode nor has gone to sleep.

I have also asked for @spookydoo to use the + button and check the real temperature inside the boiler.


----------



## MichaelKusnadi

I just wanted to ask if anyone is experiencing the same thing as me, when I backflush, I use the two brewing buttons, not the hot water and brewing 1 button.

Next, I wanted to ask when I backflush the pressure gauge doesnt go up at all... not sure if that is a problem because DaveC's videos show the pressure gauge going up... thanks in advance


----------



## DavecUK

If the PRG time is not set to 6s you might not be filling the portafilter/blind filter. Thus no pressure is generated.


----------



## spookydoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> What was inside the steam tip? We're the holes blocked in any way? If you put the tip back, holes clean, does it work as per videos?
> 
> @DavecUK - according to his video, machine is not in eco mode nor has gone to sleep.
> 
> I have also asked for @spookydoo to use the + button and check the real temperature inside the boiler.


 Hi, so i've drained the steam boiler as it occured to me I hadn't done this since I've had the machine. The steam wand tip is clean. The tiny bits i got out of it weren't blocking the holes.

I turned the steam temp up to the maximum 145c in case this was any better. Steam was more powerful but still drips and splutters. The attached video will hopefully show the problem. Temp was 135c at the the start but steam very slow to come through. I made a coffee shortly afterwards and it took about 30 seconds to steam 4oz/100ml of milk. Problem seems to be getting worse.

/monthly_2020_11/video.mp4.fa961fe4635c5ed31cb8bb2bc4cb6110.mp4" type="video/mp4">
View attachment video.mp4


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

spookydoo said:


> Hi, so i've drained the steam boiler as it occured to me I hadn't done this since I've had the machine. The steam wand tip is clean. The tiny bits i got out of it weren't blocking the holes.
> 
> I turned the steam temp up to the maximum 145c in case this was any better. Steam was more powerful but still drips and splutters. The attached video will hopefully show the problem. Temp was 135c at the the start but steam very slow to come through. I made a coffee shortly afterwards and it took about 30 seconds to steam 4oz/100ml of milk. Problem seems to be getting worse.
> 
> View attachment 48120


 Have you changed any of the advanced settings?

Something is not right. I think there's a blockage somewhere. It shouldn't be like this. I'd send those videos to Bella Barista and let them know. alternatively, if you are inclined to do it, you can take the top cover of your machine off and see if you can spot anything abnormal there. It's a clear PTFE pipe from the top of the boiler to the steam tap, so you should be able to see any water being pushed out.

I wouldn't bother undoing the steam wand just yet, as there's more to go wrong there in terms of cross-threading the nut or damaging the ball valve.

Phone Bella Barista up. There's a two year warranty, so might as well use it.

Sorry to hear that though, very annoying.


----------



## Inspector

Try resetting the machine as well.


----------



## spookydoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Have you changed any of the advanced settings?
> 
> Something is not right. I think there's a blockage somewhere. It shouldn't be like this. I'd send those videos to Bella Barista and let them know. alternatively, if you are inclined to do it, you can take the top cover of your machine off and see if you can spot anything abnormal there. It's a clear PTFE pipe from the top of the boiler to the steam tap, so you should be able to see any water being pushed out.
> 
> I wouldn't bother undoing the steam wand just yet, as there's more to go wrong there in terms of cross-threading the nut or damaging the ball valve.
> 
> Phone Bella Barista up. There's a two year warranty, so might as well use it.
> 
> Sorry to hear that though, very annoying.


 No, nothing changed in the advanced settings. I'll give BB a call tomorrow and see what they have to say. Thanks for your help, i'll report back once a diagnosis has been made.


----------



## wave

arturhoo said:


> Yes. I got mine (V3) from lamacchinadelcaffe - I chatted with them before buying and they mentioned they only had 2 in stock. I know another person who bought one after me, so I assume they got more stock this week.
> Yeah, Brexit could mean a weaker pound and import hassles, so I wanted to move fast since the 1040€ price tag was very attractive (I was originally considering the Victoria).


I am also considering buying one Elizabeth + Eureka Specialita from lamachinadelcaffe; price difference is significant compared to UK retailers.

Do you still recommend this machine and lamachinadelcaffe?

I may wait to Black Friday in case some good UK deals come.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

spookydoo said:


> Hi, so i've drained the steam boiler as it occured to me I hadn't done this since I've had the machine. The steam wand tip is clean. The tiny bits i got out of it weren't blocking the holes.


 I wonder though if whatever it was that was found in the steam tip, there may be more further back up the system? Maybe something block the inlet side of the steam valve. Definitely not normal behaviour. When I purge my Elizabeth's steam wand, I get a short burst of water then steam whooshes out of the tip.


----------



## arturhoo

wave said:


> Do you still recommend this machine and lamachinadelcaffe?


 Yes, pretty happy with the machine so far and service from lamachinadelcaffe has been great. As I mentioned, a friend also purchased a machine from them and had a smooth experience. Keep in mind that unlike @spookydoo, you won't have a local support in case a fault develops with the machine.

@MediumRoastSteam last week has been a bit chaotic, but I finally managed to update the advance settings and got times closer to yours: from 10º, 11m to OK displayed, 19m30s to temperature stabilized at 94º.


----------



## wave

arturhoo said:


> Yes, pretty happy with the machine so far and service from lamachinadelcaffe has been great. As I mentioned, a friend also purchased a machine from them and had a smooth experience. Keep in mind that unlike @spookydoo, you won't have a local support in case a fault develops with the machine.
> @MediumRoastSteam last week has been a bit chaotic, but I finally managed to update the advance settings and got times closer to yours: from 10º, 11m to OK displayed, 19m30s to temperature stabilized at 94º.


Thanks, great to hear that.

I case you need to use the warranty do you have to send it back to the retailer you bought it from or is there a global warranty hence you can use a local representative?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MichaelKusnadi

Has anyone had any problems or have any experience as to the pressure gauge and the lcc screen fogging up because of steam? Like it disappears after turning it off but it fogs up after powering like 30 minutes.

furthermore has anyone experienced any leaking like on the right side of the machine near the steam wand (in front of it) ?

any help would be appreciated!


----------



## MichaelKusnadi

Thanks in advance for any tips, it seems to be coming from that valve/tube maybe it came loose during shipping, I have watched 1st line opening their lelit and there wasnt this tube, does anyone know what this tube is for and any tips on fixing this, for now I just tried pushing it further but not sure if itll work. Thanks again everybody!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

MichaelKusnadi said:


> View attachment 48209
> 
> 
> View attachment 48210
> Thanks in advance for any tips, it seems to be coming from that valve/tube maybe it came loose during shipping, I have watched 1st line opening their lelit and there wasnt this tube, does anyone know what this tube is for and any tips on fixing this, for now I just tried pushing it further but not sure if itll work. Thanks again everybody!
> 
> View attachment 48212


 They tube does nothing. It's sole purpose/told is to plug one of the ports in that X fitting. They should really have used a Y fitting. As you can see, there's a screw at the centre of your circle. I'm not a fan of this "design" by Lelit. I have no idea why they did that.

anyway, have you identified where the leak is coming from exactly? If it is from the area you identified, where *exactly *is the drip or jet or steam coming from? If you could video, for 1 minute, up close, that is always helpful in diagnosing things like that.

fine exactly where you have a leak. Let us know if also happens in ECO mode, as we can then rule out a few things.

I have a guess, but please report back.

ps: 1st line video is an older version of the Elizabeth.


----------



## MichaelKusnadi

MediumRoastSteam said:


> They tube does nothing. It's sole purpose/told is to plug one of the ports in that X fitting. They should really have used a Y fitting. As you can see, there's a screw at the centre of your circle. I'm not a fan of this "design" by Lelit. I have no idea why they did that.
> 
> anyway, have you identified where the leak is coming from exactly? If it is from the area you identified, where *exactly *is the drip or jet or steam coming from? If you could video, for 1 minute, up close, that is always helpful in diagnosing things like that.
> 
> fine exactly where you have a leak. Let us know if also happens in ECO mode, as we can then rule out a few things.
> 
> I have a guess, but please report back.
> 
> ps: 1st line video is an older version of the Elizabeth.


 Yea so I found that there is water in that tube(is there supposed to be?), the only place where it drips is right below the pipe i circled... I am away from home right now but I will update you once I get back home, Thank you!


----------



## arturhoo

wave said:


> I case you need to use the warranty do you have to send it back to the retailer you bought it from or is there a global warranty hence you can use a local representative?


 Lelit states that the warranty is just between the seller and buyer, so if I were to get it serviced, at leas in theory, I'd have to send it back to Italy. Whether it is more expensive to pay for servicing with Bella Barista or send it over to Italy (packaging would be a pain) I hope to never have to figure out


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

MichaelKusnadi said:


> is water in that tube(is there supposed to be?)


 Yes, given the current design where the OPV goes into that X fitting. Therefore, water will flood towards the safety valve and towards the steam tip. Functional, but poorly thought out. Although I understand that this might be due to other reasons (parts available, COVID-19 pandemic, etc).

As per my previous post, you'll need to be a bit more specific. Read that and let us know more when you get home.

irrespectively, I'd let the place where you bought the machine from know and at least register the fault with them, so everything is recorded from the outset.

On the easy side of things you have a pierced hose. Easy fix. The other possibility is that your steam tap is leaking where the screw is, or somewhere else. That's why it's important for you to dry everything up (unplug the machine from the mains electricity!!!!) and turn the machine on in eco mode and let us know he exact location of where the drip is coming from, not where it's ending up at.

DO NOT touch the inside of the machine when the machine is on and plugged in! Always unplug it!


----------



## MichaelKusnadi

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Yes, given the current design where the OPV goes into that X fitting. Therefore, water will flood towards the safety valve and towards the steam tip. Functional, but poorly thought out. Although I understand that this might be due to other reasons (parts available, COVID-19 pandemic, etc).
> 
> As per my previous post, you'll need to be a bit more specific. Read that and let us know more when you get home.
> 
> irrespectively, I'd let the place where you bought the machine from know and at least register the fault with them, so everything is recorded from the outset.
> 
> On the easy side of things you have a pierced hose. Easy fix. The other possibility is that your steam tap is leaking where the screw is, or somewhere else. That's why it's important for you to dry everything up (unplug the machine from the mains electricity!!!!) and turn the machine on in eco mode and let us know he exact location of where the drip is coming from, not where it's ending up at.
> 
> DO NOT touch the inside of the machine when the machine is on and plugged in! Always unplug it!


 Ok so I got home and tested the machine, turned it on eco, so far no drip... still waiting to see if it will drip, but after looking it might be the steam valve tap... any tips if it is?

Im gonna try turning it on not on eco to see after a bit

update* after turning on the steam it starts dripping from the side of that valve part. In the video, any tips on fixing it? Or should I go send it back? If possible I want to avoid that because shipping and everything takes pretty long... Thanks again! Your answer has been extremely helpful.

On eco, nothing drips, I tried backflushing making espresso and it doesnt drip but as soon as the steam gets up to pressure theres small drops starting to form on the top of the plastic pipe

View attachment IMG_8953.mp4


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

MichaelKusnadi said:


> Ok so I got home and tested the machine, turned it on eco, so far no drip... still waiting to see if it will drip, but after looking it might be the steam valve tap... any tips if it is?
> 
> Im gonna try turning it on not on eco to see after a bit
> 
> update* after turning on the steam it starts dripping from the side of that valve part. In the video, any tips on fixing it? Or should I go send it back? If possible I want to avoid that because shipping and everything takes pretty long... Thanks again! Your answer has been extremely helpful.
> 
> On eco, nothing drips, I tried backflushing making espresso and it doesnt drip but as soon as the steam gets up to pressure theres small drops starting to form on the top of the plastic pipe
> 
> View attachment 48217


 Great assessment. So, the reason why nothing happens in ECO mode is because there's no steam being generated, therefore no pressure on the steam tap, therefore no leak. So now we understand that the reason is the steam travelling from that PTFE tube onto the steam tap, and, for whichever reason that I do not understand, that steam is leaking from the back of the steam tap.

Are you in the UK?

I'm not sure if this would suffice, but you could try screwing that screw at the back - which is inside the silicone hose - tighter. It might be that you'd need to undo the screw, maybe put some thread locker or PTFE tape to completely seal it.

Undo that hose very carefully so it doesn't get damaged. If it does, not a big deal as there's enough there for a slack.

So, this is what I'd try first. I'd try to avoid sending the machine back as it's just hassle. If it doesn't work, then you can just put the hose back and then file a warranty claim so they can fix it.

I don't know the relationship with your reseller, but you could talk to them, explain your findings and ask them if they are comfortable for you to try that first.

Good luck and so sorry to hear that about your machine. It should be a quick fix either way.


----------



## Doram

MichaelKusnadi said:


> update* after turning on the steam it starts dripping from the side of that valve part. In the video, any tips on fixing it? Or should I go send it back? If possible I want to avoid that because shipping and everything takes pretty long... Thanks again! Your answer has been extremely helpful.


 Wow, this doesn't look good at all. @MediumRoastSteam is the source of the dripping water the steam tap, or does it come from the hose?

@MichaelKusnadi - there are a few things you could try to make the seal between the hose and tap better, such as cutting the last bit of the hose (currently on the tap) and re-connecting the new end to the tap, or securing the connection with a cable tie or a hose clamp. However, on a new machine I wouldn't want an improvised solution. If the water shouldn't be there (I don't know if it should), I would want to get rid or the cause, and not just provide a remedy. I hope you can identify the source of the problem and sort it out yourself (maybe with help or parts from the retailer), but if not - I would send it back. Good luck with it!


----------



## MichaelKusnadi

Doram said:


> Wow, this doesn't look good at all. @MediumRoastSteam is the source of the dripping water the steam tap, or does it come from the hose?
> 
> @MichaelKusnadi - there are a few things you could try to make the seal between the hose and tap better, such as cutting the last bit of the hose (currently on the tap) and re-connecting the new end to the tap, or securing the connection with a cable tie or a hose clamp. However, on a new machine I wouldn't want an improvised solution. If the water shouldn't be there (I don't know if it should), I would want to get rid or the cause, and not just provide a remedy. I hope you can identify the source of the problem and sort it out yourself (maybe with help or parts from the retailer), but if not - I would send it back. Good luck with it!


 So im thinking its from the the silicon tube, not sure if water can come from the steam tap part through the screw but correct me if im wrong haha im not even sure why they have that pipe in the first place. So when I turn on steam it drips alot more than if i just leave it as shown in the video below.

@MediumRoastSteam thanks for the tips, ill do that tomorrow morning, hopefully plugging the pipe back in will solve it. Can water come through the screw part? Ill try to screw it back in without tape first and try to put it back on to see if it still leaks. Also do you think I should completely take the screw out first or just tighten it? Thanks everybody!!

View attachment IMG_8955.mp4


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Doram - From the video, it appears the steam comes from the tap side of the screw, not from the X fitting. Hence why it only drips/manifests itself when the steam is ON - i.e.: machine is not in ECO mode. That's what @MichaelKusnadi said and what I understand.

Michael, to be honest, I don't know why the screw is there on the Elizabeths. I can only assume this is how the steam tap is built/made. Tightening the screw is a best guess. I've never tried it, I have no idea if it will work or not.

I just re-watched your latest video: The steam tap should not leak from there what so ever, specifically not on that side of the screw. That side of the screw (between the body and the head for a better explanation) should be bone dry. *Mine is.*

At a wild guess, the leak is where the green arrow is pointing to:









Maybe @DavecUK knows best.


----------



## Del

What size tamper do people use for the VST baskets? Noticed they seem a touch wider then my 58mm.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Del said:


> What size tamper do people use for the VST baskets? Noticed they seem a touch wider then my 58mm.


 I have a 58.4 mm and works for me. 58.55 also works, and that's the standard tamper which comes with the MaraX.


----------



## FrancescoS

Hi guys,

Could any of you tell me the depth of the Elizabeth, including the cm needed for the power cord?

I saw online that the machine itself is just 31 cm deep, which is great for my small countertop. But i am wondering how many extra cm the power cord in the back will require.

(i.e. I read in the other thread that Bianca needs an extra 8 cm just for the cable)

Sorry for the dumb question but my kitchen is very small 😅


----------



## eamon

I think 31cm is the width.

website gives 27cm as the depth (I think it's a little less), but this is excluding the portafilter handle.

I changed my power lead to a "right angled kettle lead", so save a little space. I need 4cm for the lead, 30cm depth in total (i.e. from wall to front of tray)


----------



## FrancescoS

eamon said:


> I think 31cm is the width.
> 
> website gives 27cm as the depth (I think it's a little less), but this is excluding the portafilter handle.
> 
> I changed my power lead to a "right angled kettle lead", so save a little space. I need 4cm for the lead, 30cm depth in total (i.e. from wall to front of tray)


 Thanks for the info! it's indeed 27 cm, I misread.

30 cm depth in total is great, it will fit perfectly


----------



## wave

One more to the Lelit Elizabeth club .

It should arrive tomorrow.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@MichaelKusnadi - Just wondering if you managed to get any further with the leak on your steam tap?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@spookydoo - Just wondering if you managed to get any further with the steaming issues you were having?


----------



## spookydoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @spookydoo - Just wondering if you managed to get any further with the steaming issues you were having?


 It's going back to BB tomorrow. They agree that it's something that needs looking at in the workshop and have said they'll repair or replace within 24 hours so should hopefully hear back on Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Thought I'd share a video of steaming milk on the Elizabeth using he "ghosting" technique. Dead simple easy, and great results. Keep the wand in a suitable position just on top of the surface so you can hear the "tearing" noises. Eventually the milk will rise and the noise will stop. So the milk is stretched dor you, all the sir injected, it just needs to keep rolling.






and for anyone wondering... no, it doesn't look like I'll take part in the Latte Art contest at this rate! 😂

for anyone wondering, that was 240ml of cold milk. 😬 - yes, I like milk. 😊


----------



## BiggieBig

I have a Lelit Anita PL042TEMD been pretty happy with it over the last 5 years.

Decided on an upgrade and ordered the Lelit Kate from coffeeitalia on Thursday. Primarily because I wanted an all in one for convenance and space etc. Just emailed for cancellation hopefully won't be an issue as it's only been 1 working day.

After reading this thread and researching decided to take the plunge and go for Elizabeth probably from lamacchinadelcaffe lol.
Any recommendations on a grinder lots of talk of the niche I like the fact it's compact but not sure I can stomach £500 just on a grinder. 
Was considering Lelit William - PL71 any experience with this ?

any other recommendations or pointers ..


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

BiggieBig said:


> Was considering Lelit William - PL71 any experience with this ?


 I can't remember who, I think it was @L&R who mentioned something about this grinder - I don't think it was positive. I read good things about the William PL72 though.


----------



## wave

Got it today









I have been dialing it in but still more adjustments are needed.

So far very impressed with it. Frothing is amazing; now trying to play with all espresso options.

Just some quick questions.

- what brewing temperature are you using? I started with the 95C standard but have now reduced to 93C

- what infusion setting do you have? I am currently using 6s and total 33s shot seems ok

- coming from a B2C I am trying to understand some settings for my wife. She likes single shoots. Used the single filter but results are not as good and is a hassle to change it each time. Tried to read in the forum and it seems there is easy way rather than pour in to glasses. Any suggestion?

Here a picture:


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

wave said:


> Got it today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been dialing it in but still more adjustments are needed.
> 
> So far very impressed with it. Frothing is amazing; now trying to play with all espresso options.
> 
> Just some quick questions.
> 
> - what brewing temperature are you using? I started with the 95C standard but have now reduced to 93C
> - what infusion setting do you have? I am currently using 6s and total 33s shot seems ok
> - coming from a B2C I am trying to understand some settings for my wife. She likes single shoots. Used the single filter but results are not as good and is a hassle to change it each time. Tried to read in the forum and it seems there is easy way rather than pour in to glasses. Any suggestion?
> 
> Here a picture:
> 
> https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201121/5b5241093bfb3aa0e1dcb886f4db9162.jpg


Looking good. Temperature.... it depends on the beans. 93 and 94 are popular. But... adjust to taste. I'd you think it's too bitter, decrease temp. If too sour, increase temp.

As for pre-infusion... I like light roasts. Intend to pre-infuse for 12 seconds, total time 40 seconds. Again; see what works for you. There's no right or wrong.

Make sure the steam pre infusion pump run is for 3 seconds, and the bloom phase 4 or 5 seconds.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wave

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Looking good. Temperature.... it depends on the beans. 93 and 94 are popular. But... adjust to taste. I'd you think it's too bitter, decrease temp. If too sour, increase temp.
> 
> As for pre-infusion... I like light roasts. Intend to pre-infuse for 12 seconds, total time 40 seconds. Again; see what works for you. There's no right or wrong.
> 
> Make sure the steam pre infusion pump run is for 3 seconds, and the bloom phase 4 or 5 seconds.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks!!!

Checked the manual and cannot find how to activate the pump 3 seconds and then the bloom. Is this automatically done within the pre infusion time?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

wave said:


> Thanks!!!
> 
> Checked the manual and cannot find how to activate the pump 3 seconds and then the bloom. Is this automatically done within the pre infusion time?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Check Dave's in depth review. First post in this thread. Read/watch the advanced LCC settings.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wave

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Check Dave's in depth review. First post in this thread. Read/watch the advanced LCC settings.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Tx, I watched many of his videos but not that particular one. This is very useful but I am not a bit confused with other parameters that I understood were not needed to be changed.

e.g. Dave has KPc as 0.2 and mine is 2.0 by default. Shall I change this and other as per Dave's set up?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

wave said:


> Tx, I watched many of his videos but not that particular one. This is very useful but I am not a bit confused with other parameters that I understood were not needed to be changed.
> 
> e.g. Dave has KPc as 0.2 and mine is 2.0 by default. Shall I change this and other as per Dave's set up?


 I did. 😉. My premise was simple: Dave reviewed the machine extensively, has the right equipment to measure temperature, has the experience on testing other machines and understanding what each of the values do. I have tried to understand those again at depth, but I stoped short of going back to my books of analytical geometry and calculus. Besides, I don't have the time or the ability to qualify or quantify anything I potentially decide to change.

Dave knows what he is doing so I just trust him.


----------



## wave

Thanks a lot!! I changed them as per Dave's recommendation but some are big changes (e.g. KDs). Will test; I am still not getting the timing right. Also need to learn/dial in the Specialita grounder...

If these settings are better I am surprised that Lelit is not using them by default or at least closer.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

wave said:


> Thanks a lot!! I changed them as per Dave's recommendation but some are big changes (e.g. KDs). Will test; I am still not getting the timing right. Also need to learn/dial in the Specialita grounder...
> 
> If these settings are better I am surprised that Lelit is not using them by default or at least closer.


 If my memory serves me right, it's something related to what Gicar leaves them as default out of the factory. Doesn't mean it's good or bad, it's just not optimal. As an example, it even comes with an offset by default of 5C for the steam boiler. Why is an offset required there? Makes no sense what so ever.

as an example, let's pick he first "big change": the "P" in PID, the proportional value for coffee. That's the tolerance range from/to the target temperature the algorithm is trying to aim at. The default is 2C degrees, so 1C either way. But if you can set to 0.1C (I.e: a value of 0.2), wouldn't it be it be much better?

as for the "D" - Derivative value in kDs (s for steam), Dave says it's irrelevant. As far as I understand, that's the value which defines the rate of recovery once it overshoots. as far as I know, the settings Dave provide (pretty much all off, meaning it's a full on or off element) there's no need for it. You can actually hear it when the machine is cold and warming up: if you leave the default settings, the steam boiler heats up much slower, because it uses the PID algorithm to try and get there. Fact is, for the steam boiler, this is completely not required. If you overshoot the steam temperature by 1 or 2 degrees C either way, it makes no difference in terms of performance. So, when it's out of the lower boundary it applies full nest, when it's out of the upper boundary it just turns off. Now, for the coffee boiler, it's a total different argument.


----------



## DavecUK

wave said:


> Thanks a lot!! I changed them as per Dave's recommendation but some are big changes (e.g. KDs). Will test; I am still not getting the timing right. Also need to learn/dial in the Specialita grounder...
> 
> If these settings are better I am surprised that Lelit is not using them by default or at least closer.


 They don't because those are Gicars factory defaults.....in the USA settings might be different. Use my settings and all will be good. You can tweak mine slightly if you want a slightly different response...but wait until you have more experience.

What @MediumRoastSteamsaid above.


----------



## wave

DavecUK said:


> They don't because those are Gicars factory defaults.....in the USA settings might be different. Use my settings and all will be good. You can tweak mine slightly if you want a slightly different response...but wait until you have more experience.
> 
> What @MediumRoastSteamsaid above.


 thanks a lot both!! @MediumRoastSteam & @*DavecUK*

Very informative


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> What @MediumRoastSteamsaid above.


 Please do tell me if I'm waffling nonsense! 😂😂😂😂


----------



## wave

I have been doing a few espressos today and kept playing with all the options. Got a bit better shots than yesterday but still a long way to go.

I have also changed to DaveUK suggested settings and tried both type of infusion but difficult for me to describe any difference.

What are supposed to be the pros/cons of steam vs bloom method?


----------



## Lumini

I have had a scary time this morning, probably due to clumsy fingers. I got an Elizabeth about a month ago (I came to this forum for the MaraX and stayed for the Elizabeth) followed a few days ago with a Niche. I have been very happy, especially since the Niche arrived, and kept to the factory settings.

This morning I decided to put in DavecUK's settings and, as I couldn't see in the instructions how to exit from the advanced menu, turned the machine off. I turned it back on and, after the usual version number, got a flashing Lelit sign and water gushed non-stop from the group head. Nothing else was lit, neither the buttons nor the pressure gauge. Pressing plus or minus on the LCC had no effect and all I could do was switch the machine off. I tried this a few more times, same result, before pressing the plus button while switching on to reset to the factory settings, bringing up a legend of Preset Done. Still water gushed.

Eventually, I just let the water flow. I started with a full tank and, with about a quarter left, the flow suddenly stopped, all the lights came on again and the machine appears to be fine. I have espresso, which I really, really needed.

Any idea what I did and shouldn't have done? Needless to say, I am not touching anything again.

Geoff


----------



## woodymogs

I joined the Elizabeth owners club over the weekend and have been enjoying getting to grips with my first proper espresso machine after years of B2C usage. Yesterday I decided to input the settings as recommended by @DavecUK and, at the same time, I also had a go at setting up the 'purge water through the group' feature which seemed like a good idea. I didn't use the machine after adjusting everything but I've obviously messed something up because this morning when I turned it on it's purging cold water through the group continuously 

I've managed to check the settings in the advanced menu and everything is as per Dave's suggestions but whenever I turn it on, it just does the continuous purge. I've clearly messed something up so if anyone has any advice I'd be very grateful for some help please.

Edit: just noticed the previous post on the same subject!


----------



## DavecUK

woodymogs said:


> I joined the Elizabeth owners club over the weekend and have been enjoying getting to grips with my first proper espresso machine after years of B2C usage. Yesterday I decided to input the settings as recommended by @DavecUK and, at the same time, I also had a go at setting up the 'purge water through the group' feature which seemed like a good idea. I didn't use the machine after adjusting everything but I've obviously messed something up because this morning when I turned it on it's purging cold water through the group continuously
> 
> I've managed to check the settings in the advanced menu and everything is as per Dave's suggestions but whenever I turn it on, it just does the continuous purge. I've clearly messed something up so if anyone has any advice I'd be very grateful for some help please.


 I think you accidentally reset it to factory settings, so it's going to want to push a litre or so through. If you check your settings you will probably see they are gone, unless you reset it and then input every setting correctly in my LCC guide. It's Gicars little joke...they programmed advanced settings to be + and - held simultaneously during power on, and only + pressed to be a factory reset, the stupidity of this is obvious. A factory reset puts it in new machine mode.

I have asked Lelit to apply pressure on Gicar to change this...as Lelit order enough LCC units for Gicar to take notice.


----------



## DavecUK

Lumini said:


> I have had a scary time this morning, probably due to clumsy fingers. I got an Elizabeth about a month ago (I came to this forum for the MaraX and stayed for the Elizabeth) followed a few days ago with a Niche. I have been very happy, especially since the Niche arrived, and kept to the factory settings.
> 
> This morning I decided to put in DavecUK's settings and, as I couldn't see in the instructions how to exit from the advanced menu, turned the machine off. I turned it back on and, after the usual version number, got a flashing Lelit sign and water gushed non-stop from the group head. Nothing else was lit, neither the buttons nor the pressure gauge. Pressing plus or minus on the LCC had no effect and all I could do was switch the machine off. I tried this a few more times, same result, before pressing the plus button while switching on to reset to the factory settings, bringing up a legend of Preset Done. Still water gushed.
> 
> Eventually, I just let the water flow. I started with a full tank and, with about a quarter left, the flow suddenly stopped, all the lights came on again and the machine appears to be fine. I have espresso, which I really, really needed.
> 
> Any idea what I did and shouldn't have done? Needless to say, I am not touching anything again.
> 
> Geoff


 You accidentally reset it to factory settings the first time, input your values and the machine then performed it's new machine routine.


----------



## Lumini

DavecUK said:


> You accidentally reset it to factory settings the first time, input your values and the machine then performed it's new machine routine.


 Many thanks for this. So I was right, it was my clumsiness! I feared I had completely b*ggered the machine.

My thanks also for your reviews as they led me first to the MaraX and then to the Elizabeth.

Geoff


----------



## woodymogs

DavecUK said:


> I think you accidentally reset it to factory settings, so it's going to want to push a litre or so through. If you check your settings you will probably see they are gone, unless you reset it and then input every setting correctly in my LCC guide. It's Gicars little joke...they programmed advanced settings to be + and - held simultaneously during power on, and only + pressed to be a factory reset, the stupidity of this is obvious. A factory reset puts it in new machine mode.
> 
> I have asked Lelit to apply pressure on Gicar to change this...as Lelit order enough LCC units for Gicar to take notice.


 Thanks Dave, very helpful and yes, the settings were gone which was why I re-input them and double checked they were right. All good now and enjoying my first coffee of the day, albeit a bit late


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Lumini said:


> Many thanks for this. So I was right, it was my clumsiness!


 Don't worry - You are not alone 🙂


----------



## arturhoo

Having received the Niche last Friday, I can only attest to the night and day difference in terms of control, aroma and flavour. I ran 250g of Lavazza beans on the Niche before dialling in the Rave.

Here's a barely decent effort I just recorded after lunch today.

Rave Colombia El Carmen No 50, 18g in and 35g out in 34 seconds. It could've run a couple of seconds shorter, but the Niche still has some break-in ahead of its peak and constant performance, so some micro adjustments in between shots are expected.

I'm trying to use @DavecUK's tamping technique, but as seen on the video, extraction is still far from ideal - feedback on distribution and tamping are appreciated (I need to get rid of the tamper spinning at the end for example 😛).


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@arturhoo - Looking good.

Sounds like the gauze at the end of the hose is rattling insanely inside the tank. Check that. If you use filtered water, you can remove the gauze at the end of the hose.

Also... Check this post: 👍

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/?do=embed&comment=777922&embedComment=777922&embedDo=findComment


----------



## arturhoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Sounds like the gauze at the end of the hose is rattling insanely inside the tank. Check that. If you use filtered water, you can remove the gauze at the end of the hose.


 I removed the tiny plastic filter as I installed Lelit's filter inside the tank - the noise is probably of the big filter rattling inside. I'm using Volvic.



MediumRoastSteam said:


> If you think the portafilter is not locking at a safe position (safe position = near or at 6 o'clock)


 Thanks for the tip! It indeed doesn't lock at 6 o'clock, but only with the VST basket. If I switch back to the stock basket if fits nicely at 6. Would you recommend your procedure nonetheless?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

arturhoo said:


> I removed the tiny plastic filter as I installed Lelit's filter inside the tank - the noise is probably of the big filter rattling inside. I'm using Volvic.
> 
> Thanks for the tip! It indeed doesn't lock at 6 o'clock, but only with the VST basket. If I switch back to the stock basket if fits nicely at 6. Would you recommend your procedure nonetheless?


 Don't rush it. Next time you backflush the machine and take the shower screen and dispersion plate out for cleaning, take a look. I find that, when the shower screen is too tight, water gets trapped behind the group gasket somehow.


----------



## Del

Great video!!

How is the bottomless portafilter, I used my Gaggia today with it's naked filter and I really miss it. Is the Lelit one worth it?


----------



## arturhoo

Del said:


> How is the bottomless portafilter, I used my Gaggia today with it's naked filter and I really miss it. Is the Lelit one worth it?


 I like how it feels on the hand and the build quality seems decent, but I don't have experience to compare it with whatever else is available on the market. What problems did you have with the Gaggia that made you consider getting a new one?


----------



## Del

Can you tell me where you got it from, I can only see them on Amazon?

No reasons for upgrading other than I wanted to try a new machine, the Classic is still working perfectly and I never had any problems making great coffee with it. In fact I'm probably getting better coffee with it than the Lelit simply because I'm more used to the Gaggia (but don't tell the wife that!). Just need a bit more practice with the Lelit I think!!


----------



## arturhoo

Del said:


> Can you tell me where you got it from, I can only see them on Amazon?


 I got it from https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/ when I bought my machine.



MediumRoastSteam said:


> Don't rush it. Next time you backflush the machine and take the shower screen and dispersion plate out for cleaning, take a look. I find that, when the shower screen is too tight, water gets trapped behind the group gasket somehow.


 So I couldn't wait until next Saturday (when I'm going to backflush the machine for the 2nd time). Procedure was smooth, even though the o-ring fell down I reinserted it and it stayed in place without the need for vasiline. I gave the shower screen a light brush and ran some water on the dispersion block.

The portafilter now reaches the 6 o'clock position with a bit of force. Once I removed it I noticed quite a bit of what I'm assuming was coffee oils, so it is probably a good idea to backflush the machine before and/or after removing the shower screen.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

arturhoo said:


> I got it from https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/ when I bought my machine.
> 
> So I couldn't wait until next Saturday (when I'm going to backflush the machine for the 2nd time). Procedure was smooth, even though the o-ring fell down I reinserted it and it stayed in place without the need for vasiline. I gave the shower screen a light brush and ran some water on the dispersion block.
> 
> The portafilter now reaches the 6 o'clock position with a bit of force. Once I removed it I noticed quite a bit of what I'm assuming was coffee oils, so it is probably a good idea to backflush the machine before and/or after removing the shower screen.


 Coffee detergent will remove all of the stuff when you backflush.

after brewing s shot, flush some water. Then, wipe it clean with damp cloth/sponge. I left mine for two weeks, no backflushing, 3 coffees a day, and remove the shower screen. Remarkably clean on the other wise.

it's all on this thread. There are photos and I did a video with my routine, which shows what I do at the end. Works for me. 👍


----------



## arturhoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> it's all on this thread. There are photos and I did a video with my routine, which shows what I do at the end. Works for me. 👍


 Yeah, I've checked all of it in the months before making the purchase and incorporated most of the recommendations at this point, but sometimes details are indeed forgotten so I appreciate the reminders  .

In terms of cleaning, my procedure is almost identical to yours. Note that the screen and blocks were super clean - it was actually the edge of the basket, after inserting and removing the portafilter, that had some oils.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

arturhoo said:


> it was actually the edge of the basket, after inserting and removing the portafilter, that had some oils.


 Every day day, with the same cloth you use to wipe the shower screen, wipe clean where the PF locks (between the group and the dispersion plate) and where the gasket is. Make sure that's clean, because, if it's not, the portafilter won't lock where it should, a seal won't be form and you'll have a leak whilst brewing 🙂

Alternatively, you can use a group cleaning brush. I find a combination of both works best.


----------



## wave

Quick question, after a few days (I think will take weeks) I am yet to find the right setting.

Brewing pressure is just a bit above 8; what is usually your pressure when you get a good shot?

Currently I am using Rave Blend I beans; pucks seem too wet after each shoot. I assume is due to the lowish pressure.

I am using 16g as advised by Lelit. Tried 17g same results.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Inspector

mine always sits between 9 and 10 bar


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

wave said:


> Quick question, after a few days (I think will take weeks) I am yet to find the right setting.
> 
> Brewing pressure is just a bit above 8; what is usually your pressure when you get a good shot?
> 
> Currently I am using Rave Blend I beans; pucks seem too wet after each shoot. I assume is due to the lowish pressure.
> 
> I am using 16g as advised by Lelit. Tried 17g same results.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Which grinder? What's the pressure when backflushing (I.e: using blind basket)?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wave

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Which grinder? What's the pressure when backflushing (I.e: using blind basket)?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Grinder is an Eureka Specialita.

I will try a backflush soon and report back.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wave

wave said:


> Grinder is an Eureka Specialita.
> 
> I will try a backflush soon and report back.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting enough doing a backflush gets same pressure and reaches only 9.

I have noticed the portafilter is a bit further 6 o'clock.

Is there a way to adjust the pressure or means I need to send it back?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@wave
Most of the machines show 10 when backflushing. You can adjust yourself.

Take the top of the machine off and locate the OPV. Can't be missed. 👍 Turn the nut and that's it. Job done.
Aim for 10 when backflushing.

Turn that nut pointed by the two arrows. Try a quarter turn and go from there. I don't know if it's clockwise or anti clockwise. Maybe @DavecUK knows and can advise you better. The other arrow pointing towards the top points to the safety valve.

View attachment 44611


----------



## wave

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @wave
> Most of the machines show 10 when backflushing. You can adjust yourself.
> 
> Take the top of the machine off and locate the OPV. Can't be missed.  Turn the nut and that's it. Job done.
> Aim for 10 when backflushing.
> 
> Turn that nut pointed by the two arrows. Try a quarter turn and go from there. I don't know if it's clockwise or anti clockwise. Maybe @DavecUK knows and can advise you better. The other arrow pointing towards the top points to the safety valve.
> 
> <img alt="14FBC6E7-FFB3-4F33-8C0C-0A1631F21C04.thumb.jpeg.aee850d6cb75a0990fb0f37b4f734c10.jpeg" data-fileid="44611" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_08/14FBC6E7-FFB3-4F33-8C0C-0A1631F21C04.thumb.jpeg.aee850d6cb75a0990fb0f37b4f734c10.jpeg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


Thanks a lot!!

Do I need to take the screws off?

Is this OK with warranty? Not extremely happy/impressed I need to do this myself and was not factory tested...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Shouldn't invalidate your warranty I wouldn't think. Did you buy from Bella Barista? If so, give them a ring and clear the process with them. It should be fine.

It's very easy. See this video. It's the old Elizabeth, mind you. It's the same case though. All you need is to take the top off, so only the first minute or two is relevant.


----------



## DavecUK

Facing the plastic tube end, clockwise to increase pressure


----------



## wave

Thanks a lot @*MediumRoastSteam*

I managed to fix it and and how I have 10 as pressure.

Tried a shot and difference is huge now; it is late so I just tried just a little but definitely was much better.

16g in and 35 out in 26 secs; still some improvement to be made but much happier 

Video:

https://streamable.com/wbhp8b

Picture:


----------



## Inspector

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/lelit-elizabeth-pl91t-1.html

£70 saving on an ex demo item. Used twice.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

wave said:


> Thanks a lot @*MediumRoastSteam*
> 
> I managed to fix it and and how I have 10 as pressure.
> 
> Tried a shot and difference is huge now; it is late so I just tried just a little but definitely was much better.
> 
> 16g in and 35 out in 26 secs; still some improvement to be made but much happier


 Excellent! That's great news! And thanks to @DavecUK who actually managed to evaluate the previous machine and suggest a few modifications to Lelit, including a better expansion valve and, very important, in an easy accessible place! If this was in the previous version (as per 1st line equipment video) you'd need to pretty much take the hole machine apart in order to adjust the pressure. Not great.

As per the coffee.... try grinder a tad finer and aim for 33 seconds instead at a 2:1 ratio (e.g.: 17g in, 34g out).


----------



## MichaelKusnadi

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @MichaelKusnadi - Just wondering if you managed to get any further with the leak on your steam tap?


 Havent been able to get it fixed have sent it to repair a week ago but they just sent it back saying there was nothing wrong even after i gave then videos and everything... but i recieved it back and it just did it again so I tried to put cable ties and it lessened the drips but it squirts out little splashes everywhere, i called the repair place and showed them clearly and they told me to send it back again... this is really frustrating haha but what can I do? Thanks for the concern though


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

MichaelKusnadi said:


> Havent been able to get it fixed have sent it to repair a week ago but they just sent it back saying there was nothing wrong even after i gave then videos and everything... but i recieved it back and it just did it again so I tried to put cable ties and it lessened the drips but it squirts out little splashes everywhere, i called the repair place and showed them clearly and they told me to send it back again... this is really frustrating haha but what can I do? Thanks for the concern though


 That's very frustrating. Next time you send it back - and I hope you are not paying for this - make sure you put a piece of paper on top of the machine explaining what's going on. Who's the service agent? Is this in the UK?


----------



## Chrism09

*Elizabeth Optimal PID Settings*

Hi guys, anyone struggling with optimal settings for temp stability and intro shot recovery I managed to borrow the Scace again and have had a play with some different settings. Here's what I've found to be optimal, recovery time is near instantaneous after the shot (less than 20s) overshoot is zero or 1 degree after longer pulls/purges and intrashot stability holds within 0.3 degrees. Heat up time isn't overly compromised either as more extreme settings Give them a try if you're having issues:

Kpc 0.7

Klc 0.03

KD 15


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Chrism09 said:


> *Elizabeth Optimal PID Settings*
> 
> Hi guys, anyone struggling with optimal settings for temp stability and intro shot recovery I managed to borrow the Scace again and have had a play with some different settings. Here's what I've found to be optimal, recovery time is near instantaneous after the shot (less than 20s) overshoot is zero or 1 degree after longer pulls/purges and intrashot stability holds within 0.3 degrees. Heat up time isn't overly compromised either as more extreme settings Give them a try if you're having issues:
> 
> Kpc 0.7
> 
> Klc 0.03
> 
> KD 15


 Thanks Chris, will give this a go at some point. 
What about the brew temp offset? Is 10C a good value as far as you know?

also, more importantly and relevant, what were you struggling with? Where you using the factory defaults or DavecUKs suggestions?


----------



## Chrism09

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Thanks Chris, will give this a go at some point.
> What about the brew temp offset? Is 10C a good value as far as you know?
> 
> also, more importantly and relevant, what were you struggling with? Where you using the factory defaults or DavecUKs suggestions?


 Hi buddy, I checked the offset on mine with the boil test and it seems to be accurate, with the saturated design of the ring group there's less movement and less chance for air temperature to interfere with group temperature stability.

Not struggling per se lol (I was playing with PID's in a commercial setting as a barista 13 years ago) just tweaking and seeing what I can do to make this incredible machine even better. The factory settings on 5.05 software had the machine going up and down like a whores drawers, given the design of the group I knew it was capable of excellent stability, now have stability better than a Bianca (although I've only played with one once, I'm sure they can be tweaked to be a little better!)the E61 group design is a beautiful piece of history and an elegant engineering solution perfectly mated the HX design, double boilers are a different animal and I feel there are better solutions, particularly saturated and or heated groups, Lelit need to make more of this design on other prosumer models.

I haven't seen DaveC's PID values, where are they?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Chrism09 said:


> Hi buddy, I checked the offset on mine with the boil test and it seems to be accurate, with the saturated design of the ring group there's less movement and less chance for air temperature to interfere with group temperature stability.
> 
> Not struggling per se lol (I was playing with PID's in a commercial setting as a barista 13 years ago) just tweaking and seeing what I can do to make this incredible machine even better. The factory settings on 5.05 software had the machine going up and down like a whores drawers, given the design of the group I knew it was capable of excellent stability, now have stability better than a Bianca (although I've only played with one once, I'm sure they can be tweaked to be a little better!)the E61 group design is a beautiful piece of history and an elegant engineering solution perfectly mated the HX design, double boilers are a different animal and I feel there are better solutions, particularly saturated and or heated groups, Lelit need to make more of this design on other prosumer models.
> 
> I haven't seen DaveC's PID values, where are they?


 Hi! - I made a post about them, but Dave also documented his suggested PID values in his review (Advanced PID settings):

Review: https://sway.office.com/YUuIpMmQlYAFkxIO?ref=Link
Advanced PID settings: https://sway.office.com/S5J4d9Jp4Y9LdVFx

Let us know your thoughts! 👍


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I have changed the Bc parameter from 30 (default). Bc is defined as "temperature range over PID", which, to my understanding, means the temperature range in which the PID works from the set point. This means that, if your temperature is set to 93C and Bc is 30, then the PID algorithm will be applied when the temperature is is within the range from 78C to 108C, so 15C (half of 30) each side of the target temperature. If outside of that range, the element will be fully on when below and off when above, as opposed to trying to climb and get there carefully, without overshooting when is within range.
> 
> Using @DavecUK recommended settings, I have now changed Bc to 16, as an experiment.
> 
> So... what happened? Well, the obvious! 😂 - The machine took less time to heat up from cold (3 to 4 minutes quicker overall) and it seems to recover quicker from a shot - I think it was @Inspector who made an observation by watching my video that the machine took about 1 minute to go back to 93C and stabilise. For the past few coffees, I noticed that, by time I went to steam milk, the temperature was already back where it should've been.
> 
> Anyway, not that this really matters in the grand scheme of things, but, in the interest of science and boredom, I thought I'd share. 🤣👍😊


 Looks like my rationale here about the Bc is totally off. I don't think it does what I said above, because I the temperature seems to overshoot by two degrees from the set temp. So the above makes no sense. So, for now, ignore that nonsense. Keep at 30. 🙂


----------



## DavecUK

BC is 30 something's but it's not degrees C 🙄


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> BC is 30 something's but it's not degrees C 🙄


 That's what I figured too. It's something. I just need to figure out somehow what is it. 🙂 👍


----------



## arturhoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Looks like my rationale here about the Bc is totally off. I don't think it does what I said above, because I the temperature seems to overshoot by two degrees from the set temp. So the above makes no sense. So, for now, ignore that nonsense. Keep at 30. 🙂


 I think your interpretation is correct. Checking [1] and [2]:

B: It is the proportional range, within which the temperature is regulated by the PID, outside it the heating element is regulated by ON/OFF.
E.G.: if the value is 30 (around 16°C), and the set-point temperature is 95°C, the PID will start to work at 79°C, (95-16=79) 
Allowed values 1÷40
Set value by us 30 (around 16°C)

My naive hypothesis: the overshoot you're seeing is due to the short amplitude of temperatures that the PID has to operate on, and/or the fact that the PID engages from a high temperature with more momentum. You could experiment with decreasing Kp a bit.

And yes, it is expressed in F.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

arturhoo said:


> My naive hypothesis: the overshoot you're seeing is due to the short amplitude of temperatures that the PID has to operate on, and/or the fact that the PID engages from a high temperature with more momentum. You could experiment with decreasing Kp a bit.
> 
> And yes, it is expressed in F.


 Thanks. I think "30" means 15 units each way. If it's set in C, then it's C?

it doesn't make sense though... unless like you are saying, it IS 30F, meaning A much smaller range in Celcius. but that contradicts the explanations you referenced.

with the value set to 30, it's quite stable. If I set to 20 (so 10 each way), it jumps from 94 to 96. But, in theory there shouldn't be a problem because on both scenarios it's well within range, as the machine was idling. Confused.


----------



## arturhoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Thanks. I think "30" means 15 units each way. If it's set in C, then it's C?
> 
> it doesn't make sense though... unless like you are saying, it IS 30F, meaning A much smaller range in Celcius. but that contradicts the explanations you referenced.


 I think it is always expressed in F, regardless of the temperature display setting.



MediumRoastSteam said:


> with the value set to 30, it's quite stable. If I set to 20 (so 10 each way), it jumps from 94 to 96. But, in theory there shouldn't be a problem because on both scenarios it's well within range, as the machine was idling. Confused.


 If you TºSET is 94C/201F, a Bc of 16 as you had meant the PID would be acting over the range of 193-209F, or 89-98C. A Bc of 30, would be from 186-216F or 86-102C.

My understanding (not to be taken as correct) is that the bigger amplitude allows for less variance (assuming the parameters are set sensibly) at the cost of a slower ramp-up time. Decreasing the amplitude without changing the other parameters changes the PID output once it is activated at a higher temperature, potentially leading to the overshoot you're seeing (hence my recommendation to decrease the Kp). You can tinker a bit with http://grauonline.de/alexwww/ardumower/pid/pid.html to try to simulate the above.


----------



## DavecUK

It's not in farenheit, I can't remember exact;y but Gicar used an arbitrary scale for this on many devices and I forget, but it could be something like 5 units is 1C

I'll try to remember to ask...but stick to 30, because that's the right value from my testing.


----------



## arturhoo

DavecUK said:


> It's not in farenheit, I can't remember exact;y but Gicar used an arbitrary scale for this on many devices and I forget, but it could be something like 5 units is 1C


 Interesting. The document lamacchinadelcaffe sent me lists B as "(expressed in °Farenheit)". I would share the document if I had permission.

At the same time it is dated 2016, so I'm more than happy to take your word as the correct one .


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

arturhoo said:


> A Bc of 30, would be from 186-216F or 86-102C.


 This is quite interesting. If you look closely when the machine warms up, it goes really fast up to... yes! 86C. Now... presumably it would go down real quick from 120C to 102C if the theory is correct on warm up. I'll watch this tomorrow as the machine warms up.



DavecUK said:


> Gicar used an arbitrary scale for this on many devices and I forget, but it could be something like 5 units


 And, if we use Dave's recollection... each unit meaning 0.2C (so, 5 units meaning 1C) 15 units each side - 30 in total - would would mean 91C - 97C if the set temp is 94C. Now, if the value set is 20 (10 each side) so 2 degrees either way, then we are talking 92C to 96C, which is more plausible for the overshoots.

Again, either way my brain does not compute the overshooting I'm seeing if the machine is idling, irrespective of the amplitude set and the potential meanings as per above...

I'm intrigued. 😊👍


----------



## spookydoo

spookydoo said:


> It's going back to BB tomorrow. They agree that it's something that needs looking at in the workshop and have said they'll repair or replace within 24 hours so should hopefully hear back on Monday or Tuesday.


 Further to the issues I've had with the steaming power it appears that 'someone' had been overtightening the steam tap when closing it.

The message from the servicing team at BB in relation to the attached picture was: 'this is the damaged seal, instead of being flat at the tip it is pointed and this is where it has been overtightened. This causes the flat surface to be driven into the outlet and produces this raised part.'

This may be a rookie mistake but message for those who have this machine is don't overtighten the tap otherwise you'll likely block the valve.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

spookydoo said:


> Further to the issues I've had with the steaming power it appears that 'someone' had been overtightening the steam tap when closing it.
> 
> The message from the servicing team at BB in relation to the attached picture was: 'this is the damaged seal, instead of being flat at the tip it is pointed and this is where it has been overtightened. This causes the flat surface to be driven into the outlet and produces this raised part.'
> 
> This may be a rookie mistake but message for those who have this machine is don't overtighten the tap otherwise you'll likely block the valve.
> 
> View attachment 48831


 This ^^^^ - This applies to any tap really, kitchen tap, bathroom tap, garden tap, steam tap, hot water tap...

This was a something I learnt when I had my Pavoni... The golden rule was never to over tighten the steam tap, otherwise it would start dripping eventually. I think @DavecUK mentions this on the Minima review too as those taps are not spring loaded. They will last a long time, providing you know when to stop. 🙂

I'm so careful with the steam tap on my Elizabeth that I usually find that I don't tighten enough, sometimes finding it dripping slightly or "steaming" during warm up. 🙂 - But I'd rather it to drip a tiny amount into the drip tray (it eventually stops anyway) rather than over-tightening it.

And that's why I made a comment here:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/9978-what-did-the-postie-bring-you-today/?do=embed&comment=793402&embedComment=793402&embedDo=findComment

Hope you managed to get this repaired/fixed.


----------



## DavecUK

I don't steam very often, but If I was...My steam jug would live under the steam wand...just to catch those odd drips that may happen when a machine is warming up (often a symptom of overtightening at some point). Decades ago it was a very common sight and one of those "habits" that has largely been forgotten by those getting into things now.

Funnily enough I prefer compression wands because for "me", they give less trouble than their "no compression" counterparts which can be tightened fully and close the valve by means of spring pressure alone. The compression type, I find if gently used last literally decades.

When I use a machine with the compression type of valve I am very careful from new to close it just enough for the steam to stop (you can usually tighten them a whole turn after that point!)...super gentle.


----------



## spookydoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> This ^^^^ - This applies to any tap really, kitchen tap, bathroom tap, garden tap, steam tap, hot water tap...
> 
> This was a something I learnt when I had my Pavoni... The golden rule was never to over tighten the steam tap, otherwise it would start dripping eventually. I think @DavecUK mentions this on the Minima review too as those taps are not spring loaded. They will last a long time, providing you know when to stop. 🙂
> 
> I'm so careful with the steam tap on my Elizabeth that I usually find that I don't tighten enough, sometimes finding it dripping slightly or "steaming" during warm up. 🙂 - But I'd rather it to drip a tiny amount into the drip tray (it eventually stops anyway) rather than over-tightening it.
> 
> And that's why I made a comment here:
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/9978-what-did-the-postie-bring-you-today/?do=embed&comment=793402&embedComment=793402&embedDo=findComment
> 
> Hope you managed to get this repaired/fixed.


 Hi, thanks for that tip and i'll definitely be careful now with the tap. Machine has been repaired and I collected yesterday but when I got back discovered they'd forgotten to put the power cord back in the box so no coffee yet grrrr!


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

spookydoo said:


> Hi, thanks for that tip and i'll definitely be careful now with the tap. Machine has been repaired and I collected yesterday but when I got back discovered they'd forgotten to put the power cord back in the box so no coffee yet grrrr!


 Just nick the cord from a nearby desktop computer!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

spookydoo said:


> Hi, thanks for that tip and i'll definitely be careful now with the tap. Machine has been repaired and I collected yesterday but when I got back discovered they'd forgotten to put the power cord back in the box so no coffee yet grrrr!


 If you are desperate... check your desktop computer power cord or your tv power cord or

https://www.screwfix.com/p/uk-plug-to-iec-cable-2m/68085?tc=KT9&ds_kid=92700055281954487&ds_rl=1249401&gclid=Cj0KCQiAh4j-BRCsARIsAGeV12CYtGmCLPjCHG7FWaore7-rv6uovXSC2LCuaOgcb5D_ETfgvGO087oaAp40EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Or

in your Lelit box... the original European one is still there. Stick an adapter on it, or cut it and wire a new plug. Simples.


----------



## wave

I also noticed some water coming from the steam wand during the day.

Also when closing the tap makes a little squeaky noise.

I try not to close it too strongly but if loses some water then something does not look good.

The steam tap is my only complain about the Elizabeth; it is just a cheap plastic one.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

wave said:


> I try not to close it too strongly but if loses some water then something does not look good.


 Some condensation forms inside the tube between the boiler and the tap. That's the water which will be "lost" if it drips. Mine doesn't drip as such, but if I don't close the tap fully - and when I say fully I don't mean anywhere near tight - obviously that condensation will make its way out. Maybe I am too careful when closing the tap. But I'd rather it be like this than to have problems later on.


----------



## spookydoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> If you are desperate... check your desktop computer power cord or your tv power cord or
> 
> https://www.screwfix.com/p/uk-plug-to-iec-cable-2m/68085?tc=KT9&ds_kid=92700055281954487&ds_rl=1249401&gclid=Cj0KCQiAh4j-BRCsARIsAGeV12CYtGmCLPjCHG7FWaore7-rv6uovXSC2LCuaOgcb5D_ETfgvGO087oaAp40EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
> 
> Or
> 
> in your Lelit box... the original European one is still there. Stick an adapter on it, or cut it and wire a new plug. Simples.


 Luckily DPD turned up shortly afterwards with the lead so coffee has been made (and steaming back up to full power). Happy days!


----------



## FrancescoS

The machine just arrived 😍

1 day before expected and because of that I still don't have a tamper (should arrive tomorrow).

to be honest - coming from nespresso I feel a bit intimidated. And the first two espresso were extremely bitter, i guess I went too fine.

I have also tried backflushing to check the pressure and it stops at 9 bars. I suppose it's best to increase it to 10?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

FrancescoS said:


> The machine just arrived 😍
> 
> 1 day before expected and because of that I still don't have a tamper (should arrive tomorrow).
> 
> to be honest - coming from nespresso I feel a bit intimidated. And the first two espresso were extremely bitter, i guess I went too fine.
> 
> I have also tried backflushing to check the pressure and it stops at 9 bars. I suppose it's best to increase it to 10?


 Congratulations! Don't worry about the pressure yet. Get to know your machine first, specially if this is your very first one! (Sorry, I don't consider Nespresso an espresso machine)  . Get to know the machine, its features, its quirks. Don't look at that pressure dial during extraction for the time being - Do look at it to tune bloom pre-infusion though.

I'm assuming you have a good grinder to pair it with.

In a couple of month's time, when you know your machine better, then open that top of and tweak the pressure if you so wish. But for the moment, just let it be.


----------



## DavecUK

9 is good, leave it alone. 🙂


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> 9 is good, leave it alone. 🙂


 Mine is 10? Should I change it? 🤣 Only joking. Can't be bothered, and the coffee it makes taste good. So, happy days 🙂

I think it's safe and fair to say that wether it's 9 or 10... They are both within acceptable parameters. Will you be able to tell any difference in the cup if it's 9 or 10? Probably not. I don't think I would.


----------



## DavecUK

Agreed, both values are OK, it's just not worth him/or you playing about with it, both will work fine.


----------



## FrancescoS

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Congratulations! Don't worry about the pressure yet. Get to know your machine first, specially if this is your very first one! (Sorry, I don't consider Nespresso an espresso machine)  . Get to know the machine, its features, its quirks. Don't look at that pressure dial during extraction for the time being - Do look at it to tune bloom pre-infusion though.
> 
> I'm assuming you have a good grinder to pair it with.
> 
> In a couple of month's time, when you know your machine better, then open that top of and tweak the pressure if you so wish. But for the moment, just let it be.


 Thank you! And thanks Dave for the input - I will leave it as it is.

I have a Mignon Perfetto as grinder; I will adjust in the afternoon the grind setting. 😅


----------



## jhf

Does the backflush work for you by pressing 1 and Water at the same time? I can't start it.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

jhf said:


> Does the backflush work for you by pressing 1 and Water at the same time? I can't start it.


 I think we all fall for this one.

It's *hold button 1 and then water*. If you try to press them at the same time, it won't work. I fell for the same thing.


----------



## FrancescoS

jhf said:


> Does the backflush work for you by pressing 1 and Water at the same time? I can't start it.


 It does. Follow @MediumRoastSteam instructions, I was confused at the beginning as well 😂


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

FrancescoS said:


> It does. Follow @MediumRoastSteam instructions, I was confused at the beginning as well 😂


 I'm sure we all were! I thought my machine had an earlier firmware version without that capability! 😂 - And then I realised... 

On a very minuscule point @DavecUK review does say to press them simultaneously. It does work for the purge function, but not for the backflush. If you watch the video though, you notice that Dave holds bottom 1 first and then presses the hot water button soon after. One of the little quirks


----------



## jhf

Yes, it already works!! Thanks! 👍


----------



## DavecUK

My bad...good job I use video as provers 🤣


----------



## FrancescoS

Quick question (you will get many of these in the following weeks 😅 )

what's the consensus in using the water tap for tea and such?

If I am not mistaken @MediumRoastSteam once said that the water didn't taste great. Is it still the case?

I don't plan to get rid of the kettle, but if the machine is already pre-heated, could I just use it for hot water?


----------



## DavecUK

FrancescoS said:


> If I am not mistaken @MediumRoastSteam once said that the water didn't taste great. Is it still the case?
> 
> I don't plan to get rid of the kettle, but if the machine is already pre-heated, could I just use it for hot water?


 After plenty of use e.g. a months or so, the water will taste OK, but you will have to use the hot water regularly, or it will get a bit stale. I always think it's best to use a kettle though!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

FrancescoS said:


> Quick question (you will get many of these in the following weeks 😅 )
> 
> what's the consensus in using the water tap for tea and such?
> 
> If I am not mistaken @MediumRoastSteam once said that the water didn't taste great. Is it still the case?
> 
> I don't plan to get rid of the kettle, but if the machine is already pre-heated, could I just use it for hot water?


 On what @DavecUK - Yes. The coffee machine is not a kettle. However, you should cycle the water in the boiler from time to time, otherwise all the dissolvable solids will end up at the bottom of the boiler. Drawing a cup once a week will do that for you nicely. Taste wise... yeah... It will get better.

Remember that the Elizabeth mixes the mater from the brew boiler and the service boiler, providing the machine is up to steam temperature. Otherwise it will just draw water from the brew boiler.

I'm not a fan of Americanos, so I don't really do this. But what I do is every month or so to drain the service boiler and replenish it with fresh water. But if you like Americanos etc, you might as well draw one once a week 👍


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> providing the machine is up to steam temperature. Otherwise it will just draw water from the brew boiler.


 Which is actually OK, because it means he doesn't have to run with the steam boiler on all the time.


----------



## jhf

*DavecUK: *Moje špatná ... dobrá práce, používám video jako prověrky 🤣

Like Leonardo da Vinci, he made small mistakes in the plans that only he knew about 😄


----------



## L2en

jhf said:


> *DavecUK: *Moje špatná ... dobrá práce, používám video jako prověrky
> Like Leonardo da Vinci, he made small mistakes in the plans that only he knew about


Cesky? I am not sure Dave understands. Ja jo

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jhf

*DavecUK: *My bad...good job I use video as provers 🤣

Like Leonardo da Vinci, he made small mistakes in the plans that only he knew about 😄


----------



## DavecUK

jhf said:


> *DavecUK: *My bad...good job I use video as provers 🤣
> 
> Like Leonardo da Vinci, he made small mistakes in the plans that only he knew about 😄


 I make loads of big mistakes I forget to say anything about...your lucky I can even remember the machine a month after I reviewed it. When the manufacturers come back to me to ask me to do more work on a machine, I often have to reread my review and watch the videos to remember how to use it.

e.g. The MaraX I have needs to be unboxed, opened up, have a new Gicar fitted with some programming I suggested to them, for me to test, before it possibly goes on general release in an updated version. I've not used it for months.. Same with the Crem One 2B LFPP, in fact Crem talked about sending me the latest machine and taking back the one I have, which is probably even more work for me!

They, all assume these machines are on my counter just ready to be switched on, instead of stored away (in many cases)! In fairness though, it's been a godsend during lockdown and during the long winter months.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> They, all assume these machines are on my counter just ready to be switched on, instead of stored away (in many cases)! In fairness though, it's been a godsend during lockdown and during the long winter months.


 Imagine... If you have them around your house, and switched on, you could actually keep the central heating off! 😂


----------



## FrancescoS

hi guys, one question - after turning on the machine, it starts heating up and it makes some hissing sounds (like water boiling). it then stops after few seconds.

Is this normal?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

FrancescoS said:


> hi guys, one question - after turning on the machine, it starts heating up and it makes some hissing sounds (like water boiling). it then stops after few seconds.
> 
> Is this normal?


 Have you configured the machine to display the actual temperature? If so, at what temperature are those noises starting? If you haven't press the + button and check.

And yes, after all the water is boiling there. Mine makes that noise briefly. However, if you hear a quick "clang" type of noise as soon as the elements get hot, this could indicate limescale. What water are you using in the machine?

Needless to say, video it next time so a better diagnostics can be given.


----------



## FrancescoS

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Have you configured the machine to display the actual temperature? If so, at what temperature are those noises starting? If you haven't press the + button and check.
> 
> And yes, after all the water is boiling there. Mine makes that noise briefly. However, if you hear a quick "clang" type of noise as soon as the elements get hot, this could indicate limescale. What water are you using in the machine?
> 
> Needless to say, video it next time so a better diagnostics can be given.


 hi! thanks for the help!

yes, the machine shows the actual temperature but I forgot to check when it starts. I don't hear a 'clang' noise at all, it's just a bit of hissing/boiling - but I will pay more attention and let you know.

I am using tap water with the lelit filter in the machine. As far as i know Amsterdam water is quite soft (7.8dh according to my water provider). Do you think it would be better to use distilled water?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

FrancescoS said:


> hi! thanks for the help!
> 
> yes, the machine shows the actual temperature but I forgot to check when it starts. I don't hear a 'clang' noise at all, it's just a bit of hissing/boiling - but I will pay more attention and let you know.
> 
> I am using tap water with the lelit filter in the machine. As far as i know Amsterdam water is quite soft (7.8dh according to my water provider). Do you think it would be better to use distilled water?


 I don't know how good the filter is, so I can't say much. My water here is far worse than yours so yes, I do distil + remineralise with sodium bicarbonate.

Plenty of water threads in this forum, with all sorts of details. 🙂


----------



## Inspector

Mine does it after few minutes when i turn the machine on, when service boiler reaches exactly 100 degrees it stops. it is exactly like what a pressure cooker does. Noise comes from behind the drip tray from one of those outlets. I thought that was normal.


----------



## DavecUK

Inspector said:


> Mine does it after few minutes when i turn the machine on, when service boiler reaches exactly 100 degrees it stops. it is exactly like what a pressure cooker does. Noise comes from behind the drip tray from one of those outlets. I thought that was normal.


 It is


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> Mine does it after few minutes when i turn the machine on, when service boiler reaches exactly 100 degrees it stops. it is exactly like what a pressure cooker does. Noise comes from behind the drip tray from one of those outlets. I thought that was normal.


 That's the vacuum breaker closing, i.e.: pressure has built up inside the boiler, so it pushes the bung up and seals it. The brief steam and condensation is diverted into the drip tray. In some machines, they don't even bother with that, and it just evaporates on top of the boiler. 👍

nb: I don't think that's what @FrancescoS was referring to though. If it is, then apologies Francesco. I completely overlooked what you wrote.


----------



## FrancescoS

MediumRoastSteam said:


> That's the vacuum breaker closing, i.e.: pressure has built up inside the boiler, so it pushes the bung up and seals it. The brief steam and condensation is diverted into the drip tray. In some machines, they don't even bother with that, and it just evaporates on top of the boiler. 👍
> 
> nb: I don't think that's what @FrancescoS was referring to though. If it is, then apologies Francesco. I completely overlooked what you wrote.


 It could as well be the pressure from this vacuum breaker you mention.
I hear these 'noises' around the 100 degrees mark and then they stop after few seconds

but I was indeed going to ask that these 'outlets' behind the drip tray were! 🤣 noticed them today for the first time


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

FrancescoS said:


> It could as well be the pressure from this vacuum breaker you mention.
> I hear these 'noises' around the 100 degrees mark and then they stop after few seconds
> 
> but I was indeed going to ask that these 'outlets' behind the drip tray were! 🤣 noticed them today for the first time


 Right, so everything is fine then! Nothing to worry about. Just the vacuum breaker shutting off as the pressure builds in the service boiler. 👍


----------



## Inspector

Cant believe no one bought that opened box elizabeth in Bella Barist yet


----------



## cuprajake

Its not worth the saving really is it. If your up for dropping a grand plus on a machine whats £70 lol for that bew car smell


----------



## ZiggyMarley

Cuprajake said:


> Its not worth the saving really is it. If your up for dropping a grand plus on a machine whats £70 lol for that bew car smell


 I agree they need to kill 20% to be attractive


----------



## Inspector

People bargaining for £1.15 postage here 😅

Thought it was an OK saving for a tested and full warrantied machine.

Of course if they don't send it with a free bag of coffee just because it is a used machine, I would say no! 😂


----------



## cuprajake

No, but what im saying is if i wanted a brand new machine the £70 off isnt an incentive for me, the joy of getting a bran new machine, un wrapping and setting up is worth more sadly, when your at that money

If it were a £400 machine with £70 thats different.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake said:


> No, but what im saying is if i wanted a brand new machine the £70 off isnt an incentive for me, the joy of getting a bran new machine, un wrapping and setting up is worth more sadly, when your at that money
> 
> If it were a £400 machine with £70 thats different.


 I totally agree. £70 on £1150 is a mere 6% off. Imagine the advert: "ex-demo machine, used twice. Save 6%". I know that, in reality, the fact it's been out of the box tested means nothing on this kind of item. I get if they offered £115 off, 10%, it would sell much faster.


----------



## FrancescoS

hi guys,

another question, not necessarily related to the machine but to espresso in general.

My espressos have a bit acidity / sourness as aftertaste and I would like to try to minimize it as much as possible, but I am not sure which variables I should change.

Currently I am brewing 18 grams of coffee (with standard basket), 94 degrees and my last shot was 38 gr in 30 seconds if i am not mistaken. Tamping wise I am following Dave's recommendations in one of his videos, but I think I put too much pressure.

The espresso looked very good, thick crema and very smooth - it was just a bit sour and I couldn't taste the chocolate, nuts, etc. 😅

I still need to play around with ratios and such, but maybe you have recommendations for me!

edit: forgot to mention that it's a dark roast. and the machine hits the 9 bar and I am using the 5 seconds steam pre-infusion (initially set-up in the machine. still haven't touched anything 😆)


----------



## DavecUK

What's the brew temperature set to?


----------



## FrancescoS

DavecUK said:


> What's the brew temperature set to?


 hi Dave, I have set the machine at 94 degrees for brewing and i think 135 for steaming


----------



## bk85

FrancescoS said:


> hi guys,
> 
> another question, not necessarily related to the machine but to espresso in general.
> 
> My espressos have a bit acidity / sourness as aftertaste and I would like to try to minimize it as much as possible, but I am not sure which variables I should change.
> 
> Currently I am brewing 18 grams of coffee (with standard basket), 94 degrees and my last shot was 38 gr in 30 seconds if i am not mistaken. Tamping wise I am following Dave's recommendations in one of his videos, but I think I put too much pressure.
> 
> The espresso looked very good, thick crema and very smooth - it was just a bit sour and I couldn't taste the chocolate, nuts, etc. 😅
> 
> I still need to play around with ratios and such, but maybe you have recommendations for me!
> 
> edit: forgot to mention that it's a dark roast. and the machine hits the 9 bar and I am using the 5 seconds steam pre-infusion (initially set-up in the machine. still haven't touched anything 😆)


 I'd say temperature is not a problem here, but try to increase your shot time (maybe in combination with a finer grind).


----------



## beanere2long

Just pulled the trigger finally on an Elizabeth 😎...

Would be good to know what peoples' cleaning regimes/practices are?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

beanere2long said:


> Just pulled the trigger finally on an Elizabeth 😎...
> 
> Would be good to know what peoples' cleaning regimes/practices are?


 This is what I do:

- Warm the machine up for 25 minutes;
- Before first shot of the day, pull a bit of water via the water tap less than a sec, just to keep that path ticking;
- Pull shots;
- Rinse shower screen;
- Wipe shower screen with sponge cloth;

- Every two weeks: Backflush;
- Every 4 weeks: Remove shower screen, dispersion plate, gasket and clean it all up. It's incredibly clean behind there with the daily cleaning regime... Unlike an E61 machine, there's no need to drop the shower screen every other day.
- Every two months: Drain service boiler.
- Every year: Open machine up for annual inspection.

IMMV.

I've documented all of this in this thread somewhere with videos and pictures.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

MediumRoastSteam said:


> This is what I do:
> 
> - Warm the machine up for 25 minutes;
> - Before first shot of the day, pull a bit of water via the water tap less than a sec, just to keep that path ticking;
> - Pull shots;
> - Rinse shower screen;
> - Wipe shower screen with sponge cloth;
> 
> - Every two weeks: Backflush;
> - Every 4 weeks: Remove shower screen, dispersion plate, gasket and clean it all up. It's incredibly clean behind there with the daily cleaning regime... Unlike an E61 machine, there's no need to drop the shower screen every other day.
> - Every two months: Drain service boiler.
> - Every year: Open machine up for annual inspection.
> 
> IMMV.
> 
> I've documented all of this in this thread somewhere with videos and pictures.


 I also forgot...

- wash and clean the tank every month
- empty the drip tray when full. I do mine when I backflush. When I rise the group, I always catch it into a container, so there's hardly any water in the drip tray. The solenoid outputs about 6ml to 8ml when venting the group. Hardly anything. This might sound too much. 
- wipe the group gasket and dispersion plate sides at the end of your day. 
- keep the machine overall appearance nice: periodically wipe out the exterior with a moisten microfibre cloth followed by a dry wipe with a microfibre cloth. The backsplash panel and group area can get dirty easily. I also keep my machine covered to avoid getting dusty or kitchen grime. Machines I had look like brand new even after 2 years! 
- after backflushing, I empty the drip tray, clean the inside and the outside and wipe it dry. The drip tray is also part of your machine. Keep it nice.


----------



## FrancescoS

bk85 said:


> I'd say temperature is not a problem here, but try to increase your shot time (maybe in combination with a finer grind).


 Thanks for the suggestion! 
I have followed it and the acidity indeed went down a bit!

I will keep playing around with ratios but the espressos are already better than the cafe next door.😌


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

FrancescoS said:


> Thanks for the suggestion!
> I have followed it and the acidity indeed went down a bit!
> 
> I will keep playing around with ratios but the espressos are already better than the cafe next door.😌


 Is it bitterness or sourness? You say acidity, you say a dark roast. Try the opposite for the sake of the experiment: decrease the temperature to 90, no pre-infusion. let the machine stabilise - 10 minutes. What do you get? Then go to 92. Let us know.


----------



## FrancescoS

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Is it bitterness or sourness? You say acidity, you say a dark roast. Try the opposite for the sake of the experiment: decrease the temperature to 90, no pre-infusion. let the machine stabilise - 10 minutes. What do you get? Then go to 92. Let us know.


 thanks for the suggestion! 
I will play around with the temperature and pre-infusion tomorrow (still using the factory settings). I let you know!


----------



## Doram

MediumRoastSteam said:


> keep my machine covered to avoid getting dusty or kitchen grime. Machines I had look like brand new even after 2 years!


 What do you cover the machine with? (I hope it's clear. It would be a shame to keep it beautiful but not get to see it when it's not used, lol).


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Doram said:


> What do you cover the machine with? (I hope it's clear. It would be a shame to keep it beautiful but not get to see it when it's not used, lol).


 An XL T-shirt.... 😊 and no, it's not clear 😂


----------



## Doram

MediumRoastSteam said:


> An XL T-shirt.... 😊 and no, it's not clear 😂


 Buttoned? What type of collar? Sorry, but this really does need a pic. 🤣😂


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Doram said:


> Buttoned? What type of collar? Sorry, but this really does need a pic. 🤣😂











for the record, no buttons or collar. Otherwise that might scratch the machine. 😬

also, you can see I have upgraded the fruit trays with foam boards. 👍


----------



## Doram

MediumRoastSteam said:


> for the record, no buttons or collar. Otherwise that might scratch the machine. 😬
> 
> also, you can see I have upgraded the fruit trays with foam boards. 👍


 ROTFL.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Doram said:


> ROTFL.


 When I had my Pro-700, my dear wife made a custom made cover for it. I need to convince her to make me a new one... pics below:


----------



## Doram

MediumRoastSteam said:


> When I had my Pro-700, my dear wife made a custom made cover for it. I need to convince her to make me a new one


 Lol, That will be a significant upgrade indeed! (tell her you posted a picture of the worn out t-shirt on the forum. I bet you will have the new cover made in no time. ;-)).


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Doram said:


> Lol, That will be a significant upgrade indeed! (tell her you posted a picture of the worn out t-shirt on the forum. I bet you will have the new cover made in no time. ;-)).


 PS: that t-shirt has never been used. 😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Northern_Monkey

@MediumRoastSteam - So that is your secret on keeping your machines so immaculate! 😂

I do like the spots on the old one she made, it does look quite jolly and nicely done.


----------



## bk85

I received my Elizabeth today  great machine! I've been cleaning and setting it up so far. I checked @DavecUK's guides, which are super helpful. I've 2 questions though.

The LCC quick reference guide tells I should change the KDc value to 10 (default is 1). But I can't find the function of this value, so I'm a bit hesitant to make such a large change without knowing why. Could anyone tell me what it does?

Also, it takes a lot of force to lock the portafilter in just before 6 o'clock (can't reach 6 o'clock). I've already removed and checked the head, but it all seems fine. Is it supposed to be this difficult with a new machine?

thx!


----------



## DavecUK

Its function is the "derivative" of the brew boiler "K derivative, coffee", P is proportional and I is integral. With a small boiler you need a touch more derivative to prevent overshoots and 10 is a good value for that boiler. I understand though if you wish to use the Gicar default values for that PID.

Don't worry about the portafilter reaching 6, it just needs to be locked in far enough that the ears are on the flats and pretty much fully engaged so it won't come off under pressure. Don';t pull the bejesus out of it trying to get it to 6 if 7:30 is far enough.


----------



## bk85

Wow that's a quick response. Thank you! I understand it better now, ill try the setting you advise. Also good to hear about the portafilter. I come from a quickmill 820, it's amazing how my shots are already so much easier to predict and tweak.


----------



## DavecUK

It's quick because I don't have to look the information up.... 😉


----------



## HVL87

DavecUK said:


> Its function is the "derivative" of the brew boiler "K derivative, coffee", P is proportional and I is integral. With a small boiler you need a touch more derivative to prevent overshoots and 10 is a good value for that boiler. I understand though if you wish to use the Gicar default values for that PID.
> 
> Don't worry about the portafilter reaching 6, it just needs to be locked in far enough that the ears are on the flats and pretty much fully engaged so it won't come off under pressure. Don';t pull the bejesus out of it trying to get it to 6 if 7:30 is far enough.


 I'm curious about this and quite ocd when it comes to locking in at 6. Will it eventually move closer with time? Almost settled on an Elizabeth purchase. Glad to see many are enjoying it.

Dave what are your thoughts on long term reliability of Lelit machines compared with other well known manufacturers?


----------



## DavecUK

HVL87 said:


> I'm curious about this and quite ocd when it comes to locking in at 6. Will it eventually move closer with time? Almost settled on an Elizabeth purchase. Glad to see many are enjoying it.
> 
> Dave what are your thoughts on long term reliability of Lelit machines compared with other well known manufacturers?


 You mean like the old it will "ride up with wear" saying.......

It's difficult to know, I have not had any trouble with the review machines, the components seem decent enough. That said all prosumer machines will be much of a muchness once they hit maturity in terms of build. Sometimes with machines very new to the market, there can be teething problems. My experience has been that most peoples problems are caused by water quality and often they don't even realise there is a problem until it's caused a more expensive one.

I simply don't generally get problems with my machines and if i do get the odd one it's simple to fix.

e.g. a buzzing vent solenoid on my prototype Minima (the profiling one). Few minutes with a screwdriver and a spanner, off with the coil, twist of the valve (fits light a lightbulb), pull out the thing that slides when the solenoid pulls in, remove a tiny teeny bit of metal from the valve seat...god knows where it came from, probably during build. 5 mins later, all fixed. Had I left it the buzz would have turned into chatter, hammered the valve seat, overheated the coil. 5 minutes of action now and that solenoid will last a decade or more, as it should. It did prompt me to get a few of the slidy bits that go inside the valve though, just in case...they are quite inexpensive.


----------



## bk85

HVL87 said:


> I'm curious about this and quite ocd when it comes to locking in at 6. Will it eventually move closer with time? Almost settled on an Elizabeth purchase. Glad to see many are enjoying it.
> 
> Dave what are your thoughts on long term reliability of Lelit machines compared with other well known manufacturers?


 Actually it seems I was too impatient. After a day of use (about 8-10 shots) its locking much much easier and nearly at 6. Seems like it needed to wear in a bit.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

bk85 said:


> Actually it seems I was too impatient. After a day of use (about 8-10 shots) its locking much much easier and nearly at 6. Seems like it needed to wear in a bit.


 Good stuff. Yeah, there's no point in overnighting. That's in fact, for anything... And that includes the steam tap. Just be gentle with the machine and it will give you many years of wonderful coffee.

For the PF, the only important thing is that it's locked roughly at 6 o'clock. Doesn't need to be exact. Just about there.

Enjoy the machine!


----------



## Inspector

I just made a frothy hot chocolate using steamer.

From cold machine to job done took 6.5 minutes.

Wish there was an option to give priority to steam boiler or eco mode for brew boiler 😄


----------



## bk85

I've been experimenting with preinfusion since a few days now. What I notice when viewing some videos on youtube pulling a shot with preinfusion, is that their pump starts after preinfusion (no pre-run to build pressure). But this doesn't seem to be an option on my elizabeth. Does anyone know how to set this up? Or was this unique to the older versions?

See for example: (start at 60 seconds)


----------



## DavecUK

> 20 minutes ago, bk85 said:
> 
> I've been experimenting with preinfusion since a few days now. What I notice when viewing some videos on youtube pulling a shot with preinfusion, is that their pump starts after preinfusion (no pre-run to build pressure). But this doesn't seem to be an option on my elizabeth. Does anyone know how to set this up? Or was this unique to the older versions?
> 
> See for example: (start at 60 seconds)


 *The older versions do this* and it was something I insisted was changed (along with 2 other changes) before I would produce a review of the machine I have.

The reason I had the programming changed for this (and extended) was because it was not right before....didn't work as it should for thermal management and gave me problems when I did thermal testing. It takes about 50 ml of water, perhaps more (depending on preinfusion time), to fill the headspace and soak the coffee to drip out. To give the push from the steam boiler it was often up at 3 bar, that's a hell of a lot of 140C water to introduce into a small 300 ml brew boiler. It caused temperature stability problems and the PID didn't like it much with the thermal sensor at the top.

The new software gives a small pump run, which is enough to fill the headspace and introduce a small amount of cold water into the brew boiler, which immediately is balanced by the infusion phase which puts a lot less water into the brew boiler from the steam boiler. It's why the small pump run should be enough to just start raising pre pressure, showing headspace is filled.

There is some very clever stuff going on in the software of Elizabeth, and a lot of testing to ensure it was thermally stable and OK.

P.S. At the price point, the Elizabeth is pretty much as good as it can be, compared to the older version, all without any increase in price!


----------



## FrancescoS

Hello! 
How do you guys clean the plastic water tank?

I was thinking of using a vinegar solution.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

FrancescoS said:


> Hello!
> How do you guys clean the plastic water tank?
> 
> I was thinking of using a vinegar solution.


 I clean with washing up liquid and rinse it thoroughly. I think Dave recommends Milton tablets now and again, and there was something else he mentioned recently... But I don't remember.... 😞


----------



## bk85

DavecUK said:


> *The older versions do this* and it was something I insisted was changed (along with 2 other changes) before I would produce a review of the machine I have.
> 
> The reason I had the programming changed for this (and extended) was because it was not right before....didn't work as it should for thermal management and gave me problems when I did thermal testing. It takes about 50 ml of water, perhaps more (depending on preinfusion time), to fill the headspace and soak the coffee to drip out. To give the push from the steam boiler it was often up at 3 bar, that's a hell of a lot of 140C water to introduce into a small 300 ml brew boiler. It caused temperature stability problems and the PID didn't like it much with the thermal sensor at the top.
> 
> The new software gives a small pump run, which is enough to fill the headspace and introduce a small amount of cold water into the brew boiler, which immediately is balanced by the infusion phase which puts a lot less water into the brew boiler from the steam boiler. It's why the small pump run should be enough to just start raising pre pressure, showing headspace is filled.
> 
> There is some very clever stuff going on in the software of Elizabeth, and a lot of testing to ensure it was thermally stable and OK.
> 
> P.S. At the price point, the Elizabeth is pretty much as good as it can be, compared to the older version, all without any increase in price!


 Thank you for the detailed explanation, so much to learn!


----------



## upinsmoke

Hi All, new to the forum and just wanted to say hello and thanks for the information in this thread. I went for the Elizabeth after a bit (lots) of research that started with me looking at De'longhi bean to cup machines, moved on to looking at the Sage Barista Express or Pro and then looking at the Sage Dual Boiler. Nearly bought a second hand one but got cold feet and then just stumbled over this thread and made my mind up in a couple of days that the Lelit looked like the one for me despite blowing my initial budget out the water.

Ordered this morning from Lamacchinadelcaffe and looking forward to getting it.

So now I start the search for a grinder which I just hadn't factored in before. While I do like the look of the Niche I have no idea when they would be available again so i need something to tide me over or do as good a job and maybe have a good resale value if I go for the Niche later. I had looked at the Eureka Mignon Facile or maybe i should be looking at something second hand. £250 - £300 max budget. What should I be looking for?


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I clean with washing up liquid and rinse it thoroughly. I think Dave recommends Milton tablets now and again, and there was something else he mentioned recently... But I don't remember.... 😞


 I used to use Milton but for my birthday (back in May) I got a hypochlorite generator, mine makes up to 2 litres of solution (basically same stuff as Milton) by electrolysing water and salt. I decant it into a number of spray bottles for round the house use. I now use the solution for:



My plastic water tanks


sponges


Grindenstien Knockbox (countertop version) and soon my Motta one


Osmio supply pitcher


Minima Plastic drip tray


I basically spray the inside of a tank, kockbox etc.. leave for 5-10 minutes, then rinse...for my sponges, I spray and soak and leave...then rinse out before I use.

Of course I have uses other than coffee...shower grout/silicone (mould prevention), toilet, toothbrush (spray and leave, then rinse before use), weaker solutions for anticovid on my mums stuff etc..

The problem with my Milton tablets was finding them and in the kitchen often the foil packs let moisture get through and the packs had "blown" with the tablets all funny?

I did get a little Osmio Sanser to test and I still need to make a video and put together a mini review, but I tried it last week and made a full strength solution and it seems to work fine. I must admit, I did a 10 minute and then a 5 minute cycle, because I think it might make it super strong and I like to get the most out of my 12g of salt 😉

The actual mister which is part of the Sanser (no decanting into spray bottles), is actually pretty fantastic. Anyone who has one knows what I mean.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/56093-osmio-sanser-a-revolutionary-cleaning-and-sanitising-innovation-saves-you-money-single-use-plastic-and-a-plethora-of-fragrance-chemicals/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=796757&embedComment=796757&embedDo=findComment#comment-796757


----------



## DavecUK

bk85 said:


> I've been experimenting with preinfusion since a few days now. What I notice when viewing some videos on youtube pulling a shot with preinfusion, is that their pump starts after preinfusion (no pre-run to build pressure). But this doesn't seem to be an option on my elizabeth. Does anyone know how to set this up? Or was this unique to the older versions?
> 
> See for example: (start at 60 seconds)


 Oh, I should have mentioned, you can have your LCC updated with the new firmware and it will work fine on your machine to give you all the new facilities....including the fixes for preinfusion. Or you could buy an updated one (or non updated one and have it loaded with the latest firmware).


----------



## bk85

DavecUK said:


> Oh, I should have mentioned, you can have your LCC updated with the new firmware and it will work fine on your machine to give you all the new facilities....including the fixes for preinfusion. Or you could buy an updated one (or non updated one and have it loaded with the latest firmware).


 Sorry maybe I was unclear (I'm not English), I do have the latest version (V3). But I was wondering why I saw videos where the pump didn't start during preinfusion. Mine does


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> I used to use Milton but for my birthday (back in May) I got a hypochlorite generator, mine makes up to 2 litres of solution (basically same stuff as Milton) by electrolysing water and salt. I decant it into a number of spray bottles for round the house use. I now use the solution for:
> 
> 
> 
> My plastic water tanks
> 
> 
> sponges
> 
> 
> Grindenstien Knockbox (countertop version) and soon my Motta one
> 
> 
> Osmio supply pitcher
> 
> 
> Minima Plastic drip tray
> 
> 
> I basically spray the inside of a tank, kockbox etc.. leave for 5-10 minutes, then rinse...for my sponges, I spray and soak and leave...then rinse out before I use.
> 
> Of course I have uses other than coffee...shower grout/silicone (mould prevention), toilet, toothbrush (spray and leave, then rinse before use), weaker solutions for anticovid on my mums stuff etc..
> 
> The problem with my Milton tablets was finding them and in the kitchen often the foil packs let moisture get through and the packs had "blown" with the tablets all funny?
> 
> I did get a little Osmio Sanser to test and I still need to make a video and put together a mini review, but I tried it last week and made a full strength solution and it seems to work fine. I must admit, I did a 10 minute and then a 5 minute cycle, because I think it might make it super strong and I like to get the most out of my 12g of salt 😉
> 
> The actual mister which is part of the Sanser (no decanting into spray bottles), is actually pretty fantastic. Anyone who has one knows what I mean.
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/56093-osmio-sanser-a-revolutionary-cleaning-and-sanitising-innovation-saves-you-money-single-use-plastic-and-a-plethora-of-fragrance-chemicals/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=796757&embedComment=796757&embedDo=findComment#comment-796757


 Lame question: Mark Osmio says his machine makes bleach (sodium hypochlorite). Are Milton tablets effectively bleach? Can't I use a weak bleach solution to clean the tank therefore?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

> 21 hours ago, bk85 said:
> 
> I've been experimenting with preinfusion since a few days now. What I notice when viewing some videos on youtube pulling a shot with preinfusion, is that their pump starts after preinfusion (no pre-run to build pressure). But this doesn't seem to be an option on my elizabeth. Does anyone know how to set this up? Or was this unique to the older versions?
> 
> See for example: (start at 60 seconds)


 You can configure the pump run prior to pre-infusion (V3 models, made from 1st July 2020) in the advanced settings. Please refer to the review on the very first post of this thread. There's a section there which covers the Advanced LCC features with in-depth explanation.


----------



## Coffeetoffi

Hi everybody,
just wanted to say thanks to DavecUK and MediumRoastSteam for all the infos about the Elizabeth - i just ordered one this morning and you guys were a big help in deciding which machine to buy.

Needless to say i can't wait for it to arrive, should be here next monday, fingers crossed!

(The Specialita arrives one week later, thankfully we've got quite a lot of interesting little roasters in Cologne who could supply me with freshly ground coffee - i'm not so sure my trusty old Hario Skerton would be up to the task!)


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Coffeetoffi said:


> little roasters in Cologne who could supply me with freshly ground coffee - i'm not so sure my trusty old Hario Skerton would be up to the task!)


 Welcome! You might be better off with your Hario! It's going to be hard work, but it's only for one week! 👍


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Lame question: Mark Osmio says his machine makes bleach (sodium hypochlorite). Are Milton tablets effectively bleach? Can't I use a weak bleach solution to clean the tank therefore?


 Milton Tablets also make Sodium Hypochlorite....which of course can be used on stainless steel, but should be wiped off with a damp cloth afterwards, or rinsed away...there is, as always, a risk of pitting. Probably due to the salt more than anything.

Household bleach has the addition of Sodium Hydroxide (Caustic Soda) to Hypochlorite. This makes it quite a lot stronger and gives it that slippery feel and fairly unpleasant smell (althougn I don't mind it). Same risks on steel apply...but again I use it on my sinks and it's always been OK.

I wouldn't use household bleach in my coffee machine water tank...very hard to rinse away...whereas Hypochlorite can be misted on and it's very easy to rinse away...even if you misted it on, left it 10 minutes and emptied any out from the bottom, then refilled the tank without rinsing, it's unlikely to hurt you....or even taste of anything.


----------



## L2en

upinsmoke said:


> Hi All, new to the forum and just wanted to say hello and thanks for the information in this thread. I went for the Elizabeth after a bit (lots) of research that started with me looking at De'longhi bean to cup machines, moved on to looking at the Sage Barista Express or Pro and then looking at the Sage Dual Boiler. Nearly bought a second hand one but got cold feet and then just stumbled over this thread and made my mind up in a couple of days that the Lelit looked like the one for me despite blowing my initial budget out the water.
> 
> Ordered this morning from Lamacchinadelcaffe and looking forward to getting it.
> 
> So now I start the search for a grinder which I just hadn't factored in before. While I do like the look of the Niche I have no idea when they would be available again so i need something to tide me over or do as good a job and maybe have a good resale value if I go for the Niche later. I had looked at the Eureka Mignon Facile or maybe i should be looking at something second hand. £250 - £300 max budget. What should I be looking for?


 Congratulations. I'm still here sitting with my finger on the buy button, mainly because covid just sweeped through my family, so I have put everything on hold and waited. It has become worse decision today as they have just discounted the MaraX and what's more, the Bianca. Decisions decisions. When did you order?

I would happily go with one of the Eurekas, I have seen it working, drank the coffee, and it was very nice. I do love my Niche as I do single dose and change the coffee all the time. But if I had to wait for months without grinder, the Eureka would be very good.

Edit: I checked again and they are back on the original prices, so that is the end of excitment and hope for Bianca😄 Should have jumped when I had the chance, but maybe it was just some mistake.


----------



## Betta

Hi from across the pond. came over this thread while trying to decide which machine to purchase. Finally decided on the elizabeth. Everybody here seems to like the niche to pair with the Elizabeth, particularly for trying different roasts and beans. The unfamiliar with the niche purchasing process do I just sign up and wait until there is an opening? If not what other grinders would you folks recommend?


----------



## DavecUK

Betta said:


> Hi from accross the pond. came over this thread while trying to decide which machine to purchase. Finally decided on the elizabeth. Everybody here seems to like the niche to pair with the Elizabeth, particularly for trying different roasts and beans. The unfamiliar with the niche purchasing process do I just sign up and wait until there is an opening? If not what other grinders would you folks recommend?


 It's really just sign up and wait, if you want the Niche.


----------



## Betta

DavecUK said:


> It's really just sign up and wait, if you want the Niche.


 Lol yeah, but in the meantime I would have to be buying pre-ground beans I guess thats not a bad thing. I have an old mueller grinder I guess I could use. Is there a cadence to their shipments eg. once a month?


----------



## DavecUK

Betta said:


> Lol yeah, but in the meantime I would have to be buying pre-ground beans I guess thats not a bad thing. I have an old mueller grinder I guess I could use. Is there a cadence to their shipments eg. once a month?


 God knows...I think they were shipping out to February 21, but I can't see any order slots, so presumably they are waiting to release them for march onwards?


----------



## Betta

DavecUK said:


> God knows...I think they were shipping out to February 21, but I can't see any order slots, so presumably they are waiting to release them for march onwards?


 Oh wow. so 3 months is too long to wait, presumably more? so what would you recommend as an alternative?


----------



## DavecUK

At the price of the Niche...nothing really for single dosing...you could go for a Nice Flat burr Eureka Speciality 75E, a very nice grinder.


----------



## FrancescoS

I got few other questions 😅

The first button has been set-up without pre-infusion.

I have noticed that for the first 3/5 seconds, the needle in the pressure gauge doesn't move. Afterwards it goes to 9 bar and the extraction starts.

Is this normal? And what happens exactly in these 5 seconds ? And finally, should I start 'timing' my shot right after pressing the button or should I wait until I see coffee drops?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## DavecUK

The headspace above the puck fills


----------



## FrancescoS

DavecUK said:


> The headspace above the puck fills


 makes sense 🙂 thank you


----------



## profesor_historia

DavecUK said:


> At the price of the Niche...nothing really for single dosing...you could go for a Nice Flat burr Eureka Speciality 75E, a very nice grinder.


By the way, what do you think about the Arco project 2 in 1 grinder?

Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## DavecUK

profesor_historia said:


> By the way, what do you think about the Arco project 2 in 1 grinder?
> 
> Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


 No idea to be honest, it's a Kickstarter...but an interesting idea. The price does seem a little high but the market will decide I guess.


----------



## bk85

Betta said:


> Hi from across the pond. came over this thread while trying to decide which machine to purchase. Finally decided on the elizabeth. Everybody here seems to like the niche to pair with the Elizabeth, particularly for trying different roasts and beans. The unfamiliar with the niche purchasing process do I just sign up and wait until there is an opening? If not what other grinders would you folks recommend?


 Not necessarily a single dose grinder: But I own a eureka mignon specialita since 2 weeks, and I love it. It's fast, quiet, low retention and grinds very well.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

FrancescoS said:


> I got few other questions 😅
> 
> The first button has been set-up without pre-infusion.
> 
> I have noticed that for the first 3/5 seconds, the needle in the pressure gauge doesn't move. Afterwards it goes to 9 bar and the extraction starts.
> 
> Is this normal? And what happens exactly in these 5 seconds ? And finally, should I start 'timing' my shot right after pressing the button or should I wait until I see coffee drops?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/?do=embed&comment=781003&embedComment=781003&embedDo=findComment


----------



## upinsmoke

L2en said:


> When did you order?


 I ordered early yesterday morning. Good service so far, photos of the package ready for shipping were texted to me within 2 hours.

I went for the Eureka Mignon Facile in the end from BB. And a tamper that was talked about earlier in this thread. Looking forward to decent coffee (and getting rid of my knackered Magnifica B2C machine) Now to order some beans.


----------



## L2en

upinsmoke said:


> I ordered early yesterday morning. Good service so far, photos of the package ready for shipping were texted to me within 2 hours.
> 
> I went for the Eureka Mignon Facile in the end from BB. And a tamper that was talked about earlier in this thread. Looking forward to decent coffee (and getting rid of my knackered Magnifica B2C machine) Now to order some beans.


 Sounds very good. I give it the weekend and then I will finally commit one way or the other. I hope you will be very happy with the machine. Silvia produces much better coffee than an expensive B2C, so I'm hoping in even better coffee from the Lelit, mainly because of temperature control.

Beans, I personally love Django and Craft House Coffee, I'm after lighter roasts.


----------



## upinsmoke

L2en said:


> Beans, I personally love Django and Craft House Coffee, I'm after lighter roasts.


 I'll take a look, thanks. First order will probably be from Coffee Compass as I'd settled on them after trying a few on my old machine (Dark Roast and Espresso selections). It will be good to see the difference on something I've tried before.


----------



## L2en

upinsmoke said:


> I'll take a look, thanks. First order will probably be from Coffee Compass as I'd settled on them after trying a few on my old machine (Dark Roast and Espresso selections). It will be good to see the difference on something I've tried before.


 I like Coffee Compass too, they have some great single origins as well as their mystery coffee. B2C is problematic with the lighter roasts, always very sour, but when I catch the right temperature on Silvia, lighter coffee is the winner. I do want to try some of the selections from Coffee Compass.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

upinsmoke said:


> I'll take a look, thanks. First order will probably be from Coffee Compass as I'd settled on them after trying a few on my old machine (Dark Roast and Espresso selections). It will be good to see the difference on something I've tried before.





L2en said:


> I like Coffee Compass too, they have some great single origins as well as their mystery coffee. B2C is problematic with the lighter roasts, always very sour, but when I catch the right temperature on Silvia, lighter coffee is the winner. I do want to try some of the selections from Coffee Compass.


 You guys will be in for a treat with lighter roasts and the Elizabeth. On a B2C machine, the water is often on the cooler side, similar to the Silvia when not at the right temp spot. With the Elizabeth, follow Dave's review and adjust the pre-infusion parameters as such... and use it. It makes a massive difference.

Crafthouse is a great roaster. Coffee Compass roasts on the darker side. I used to buy from the often a few years ago, and I tried them again a couple of months ago, but my tastebuds now prefer a lighter roasted coffee from Crafthouse or Foundry. Those two are my go-to roasters, but I do order from others too.

Edit: Don't forget that, for anyone interested, this forum has an LSOL (Lighter Side of Life) Coffee subscription where guest slots are open every month too. Just keep an eye out for it.

December thread:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/56086-lsol-december-obadiah-coffee-edinburgh/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=793987&embedComment=793987&embedDo=findComment#comment-793987


----------



## L2en

I have sub with Foundry, expecting the latest bag today, hopefully it will be ready just in time for the new machine arrival.


----------



## L2en

I have read the news and then pressed the buy button. So hopefully Elizabeth will be with me next week.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

L2en said:


> I have read the news and then pressed the buy button. So hopefully Elizabeth will be with me next week.


 Imagine if I were a salesperson... 🙂 - Great choice, and welcome to the club!


----------



## L2en

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Imagine if I were a salesperson... 🙂 - Great choice, and welcome to the club!


 Yes, Lelit shoul put you on their payroll!


----------



## 9719

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Imagine if I were a salesperson...  - Great choice, and welcome to the club!


I thought you were there #1  with lots a shares


----------



## L2en

And it's shipped already.


----------



## Coffeetoffi

Just got news that Lelit stopped shipping to Germany due to a new lockdown in Italy so after 24 hours of happiness about the order i'm now properly disappointed, no christmas present for me this year : -/


----------



## upinsmoke

I'm already getting ahead of myself eyeing up Timemore scales and various other stuff in anticipation. I'm going to be sensible and figure everything out and wait to see if there are any sales coming up.

I do like the look of a wooden handled bottomless portafilter and VST basket. Is there a recomendation for what one to go for? Is the Lelit one the best option?


----------



## upinsmoke

L2en said:


> And it's shipped already.


 Excellent. Did you order from Italy?


----------



## L2en

upinsmoke said:


> Excellent. Did you order from Italy?


 Yes, lamacchinadelcaffe. I have DHL tracking number and it is in transit, expected delivery 18th, so we'll see how messy it is on the borders. What about yours?


----------



## upinsmoke

I didn't get a tracking number. Just a couple of pics of the package and that it was shipping yesterday. Yeah slightly concerned that it ends up in a lorry park for weeks.


----------



## L2en

My tracking number came by text message as well as email, try checking. It is in Ancona, place where I have spent many happy holidays 20+ years ago. Such a lovely part of Italy. I think they expect delays since delivery is expected in a week. Who knows, my daughter's birthday card took 3 weeks to arrive from CZ last month, so I'm really wishing for the best.


----------



## L2en

Just an info, if someone wants Bianca, they really have reduced price to 1691,- euro, just one in stock left though. MaraX is for 981,- but as the conversion rate changed a lot, it is not really that exceptional price compared to the current BB offering.


----------



## BlackCatCoffee

I'd be very careful ordering from the EU at the moment given the uncertainty and likelihood of serious delays.


----------



## upinsmoke

L2en said:


> My tracking number came by text message as well as email, try checking. It is in Ancona, place where I have spent many happy holidays 20+ years ago. Such a lovely part of Italy. I think they expect delays since delivery is expected in a week. Who knows, my daughter's birthday card took 3 weeks to arrive from CZ last month, so I'm really wishing for the best.


 You were spot on. In the junk folder. Mine's shipped with TNT though, not DHL and an estimated delivery date of the 15th. I think I trust DHL a bit more tbh but as BlackCatCoffee says they could all be a bit of a gamble with our glorious leap into Brexit.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

upinsmoke said:


> You were spot on. In the junk folder. Mine's shipped with TNT though, not DHL


 TNT = FedEx Express


----------



## L2en

upinsmoke said:


> You were spot on. In the junk folder. Mine's shipped with TNT though, not DHL and an estimated delivery date of the 15th. I think I trust DHL a bit more tbh but as BlackCatCoffee says they could all be a bit of a gamble with our glorious leap into Brexit.


Well, hopefully it will go more smoothly than we expect. 
I am really homesick today, so it is a good thing I finally pressed the button, something to look forward to this strange Christmas. I think I will get the Osmio too to round it up nicely


----------



## HVL87

So I'm very seriously considering buying an Elizabeth and I'm interested to know how many owners experience some of the issues highlighted on this thread and elsewhere:

1) Pucks which stick to shower head. I know the angle you remove the portafilter can help but that's not ideal

2) Rattling inlet hose in water tank caused by gauze. Is this very noisy? Is removing the gauze the only option to reduce noise? Also the drip tray is apparently quite rattly which I know could be irritating

3) I believe someone mentioned that the steam wand can easily unscrew itself in regular use?

It's also a shame about the plastic parts used on the machine like the steam dial with I believe detract from an otherwise good value machine.

Thanks


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

HVL87 said:


> So I'm very seriously considering buying an Elizabeth and I'm interested to know how many owners experience some of the issues highlighted on this thread and elsewhere:
> 
> 1) Pucks which stick to shower head. I know the angle you remove the portafilter can help but that's not ideal
> 
> 2) Rattling inlet hose in water tank caused by gauze. Is this very noisy? Is removing the gauze the only option to reduce noise? Also the drip tray is apparently quite rattly which I know could be irritating
> 
> 3) I believe someone mentioned that the steam wand can easily unscrew itself in regular use?
> 
> It's also a shame about the plastic parts used on the machine like the steam dial with I believe detract from an otherwise good value machine.
> 
> Thanks


 I can attest for 1 and 2. with regards to sticky pucks... that drove me insane. And I can say it's not only related to this machine. Maybe the Elizabeth is more susceptible to it, but some people never had it. It's dependent on your coffee, your dose, your grind. As highlighted already, there are ways to mitigate that. Conversely, with the beans I'm using now (From Foundry) it's just not happening.

rattling... yes. It's annoying. The way the hose is positioned inside the tank makes all the difference. I have extended my hose with a PTFE tube so it's always "parked" at the bottom. I eventually have rattling, but not all the time. It could be a great thing if Lelit sorted that out, maybe by having the ability to just slot the hose into a "nipple" at the bottom of the tank, something similar to the filter assembly on the MaraX - @DavecUK - maybe a good one to feedback to Lelit. 😉. As for the rattle on the drip dray, it's the grill that rattles. You can fix that by adding some rubber or furniture pads on the drip tray where the grill slots to so it stops it moving. This was a common issue on my previous machine which is way more expensive than one... 😉 this:

















and lastly... unscrewing of the steam wand: never had with the Elizabeth. But had with previous machines which were more expensive than the Elizabeth. Easy fix if it happens. PTFE can do the trick, or a very tiny amount of threadlock (so you can break it if you ever need it) can sort that out.

conclusion: all niggles. You'll get those things in pretty much any machine of that class (and sometimes even on superior classes)


----------



## eamon

1) puck sticking seems to depend on the basket size and volume of coffee. for me with the double basket, 16g would stick frequently, 18g very rarely.
2) for me the rattling stoped when i started using the filter they provide (PLA930S I think), the extra weight probably stops the hose moving

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## HVL87

Thanks both for the feedback. I have to say it does put me off slightly but there aren't many alternatives to the Elizabeth at this price point. The Profitec 300 apparently has better build quality, but steam power is weaker and it may not be suitable for back to back milk drinks with its small boilers. Preinfusion is lacking but I would take superior build instead. Does anyone have experience with the Profitec 300?

Of course there is also the ACS Minima but again I was slightly put off by the Bella Barista overview which mentions cheap and sharp metals used, on the drip tray for example. @DavecUK what are your thoughts in this regard?

Thanks.


----------



## DavecUK

HVL87 said:


> Of course there is also the ACS Minima but again I was slightly put off by the Bella Barista overview which mentions cheap and sharp metals used, on the drip tray for example. @DavecUK what are your thoughts in this regard?
> 
> Thanks.


 Elizabeth and Minima are both great machines. I enjoy using them both. Read the reviews I did, and make an informed decision about what will suit* you* best. Since the review of the Minima is has been updated a bit with electronic float level detection, better expansion valve, 5th leg to reduce banana bend risks in transit (common type damage most traditional espresso machines shapes are prone to), thicker metals, range of powder coated finishes (over stainless).

Elizabeth, modern cleverness, very quiet, good performance (partly because of modern cleverness), preinfusion options, low energy usage (30W less than Minima with brew boiler only mode on both), faster warm up than minima 17m as opposed to 35 minutes. Modern and different type of look footprint.

Minima, built like a tank, very large boilers for class of machine, huge performance for price, vibration pump quite a bit louder than Elizabeth, good gentle ramp to pressure (no built in preinfusion options)...extremely low maintenance E71 solenoid operated group. Even easier to maintain than Elizabeth. Lelit Flow control can be easily added to the Minima. Black powder coated ones look stunning.

Both machines can be run on a smart wifi switch and both are excellent choices.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

HVL87 said:


> I have to say it does put me off slightly but there aren't many alternatives to the Elizabeth at this price point. The Profitec 300 apparently has better build quality,


 Believe me, I was in the same boat as you not long ago. Dave is witness 

the Pro-300... had its day really. Hey riding on a reputation. In comparison:

- The P300 is bulkier;
- it has a PID for brew boiler, and a pstat for service boiler. Why oh why??? Click... clack.... click... clack...

the boiler sizes are the same. So I'm not sure why you think the P300 is inferior in that aspect. Also, the group (ring group) is of a very similar design. I'm wondering whether you'd get sticky pucks with the P300 too.

the Minima is at a different class all together. Big boilers, E61... At that price point, it cannot be beaten. If that's what you want... it's a no brainier, IMO.


----------



## HVL87

DavecUK said:


> Elizabeth and Minima are both great machines. I enjoy using them both. Read the reviews I did, and make an informed decision about what will suit* you* best. Since the review of the Minima is has been updated a bit with electronic float level detection, better expansion valve, 5th leg to reduce banana bend risks in transit (common type damage most traditional espresso machines shapes are prone to), thicker metals, range of powder coated finishes (over stainless).
> 
> Elizabeth, modern cleverness, very quiet, good performance (partly because of modern cleverness), preinfusion options, low energy usage (30W less than Minima with brew boiler only mode on both), faster warm up than minima 17m as opposed to 35 minutes. Modern and different type of look footprint.
> 
> Minima, built like a tank, very large boilers for class of machine, huge performance for price, vibration pump quite a bit louder than Elizabeth, good gentle ramp to pressure (no built in preinfusion options)...extremely low maintenance E71 solenoid operated group. Even easier to maintain than Elizabeth. Lelit Flow control can be easily added to the Minima. Black powder coated ones look stunning.
> 
> Both machines can be run on a smart wifi switch and both are excellent choices.


 Thanks for the overview Dave, very useful. I have read both your review but will read them again...and again 😄



MediumRoastSteam said:


> Believe me, I was in the same boat as you not long ago. Dave is witness
> 
> the Pro-300... had its day really. Hey riding on a reputation. In comparison:
> 
> - The P300 is bulkier;
> - it has a PID for brew boiler, and a pstat for service boiler. Why oh why??? Click... clack.... click... clack...
> 
> the boiler sizes are the same. So I'm not sure why you think the P300 is inferior in that aspect. Also, the group (ring group) is of a very similar design. I'm wondering whether you'd get sticky pucks with the P300 too.
> 
> the Minima is at a different class all together. Big boilers, E61... At that price point, it cannot be beaten. If that's what you want... it's a no brainier, IMO.


 I thought that maybe the modern cleverness, as Dave describes it, on the Elizabeth may allow it to make better use of the same sized boilers which leads to improved steaming potential and/or efficiency when compared to the P300.

After speaking with a certain retailer they confirmed the sticky puck issue on the Elizabeth but didn't mention it being an issue on the P300. They also mentioned the Elizabeth uses for example a Chinese heating element vs. the German one on the P300. Not sure if this makes a difference, but just an example of how they are put together differently.

The Minima is looking more appealing now...decisions decisions!


----------



## FrancescoS

Concerning the puck issue I can say that I had it happening the first week or so. 
after changing the dose (18gr now) and the beans, no more 😅


----------



## DavecUK

HVL87 said:


> Thanks for the overview Dave, very useful. I have read both your review but will read them again...and again 😄


 It's the best thing to do and watch the videos, listen very carefully to everything and make notes about the things you value most. The problem is they are both good machines, but one of them will be a better fit to you than the other. As for what retailers say, as always be very careful. Neither of those reviews was done for a Retailer, or commissioned by them. For each the manufacturer asked me to review the machine. I review as I find and with the Elizabeth, until they made the changes I insisted on, I refused to review it.

Personally, it matters not to me what machine you buy and I can only speak for machines I have reviewed. I have never reviewed the Profitec but I have reviewed other machines made by Michaels companies, and they have all been all nice quality. If you find other reviews, look for the detail and the evidence and the videos that prove what's being said. Don't worry if the videos have not been edited well, nice cuts to music and the like. Look for videos that have little editing, that show you what's actually happening from end to end.

Finally accept that any machine new to market will have teething problems initially. Both machines I reviewed are fairly mature now....the Elizabeth although new, was revisions of a mature design and the revisions I asked for were carefully thought through and tested. Minima has has the major issues worked through...I have a couple of them and have not had any major problems...apart from a bit of swarf causing a vent solenoid to buzz last week, took literally 5 minutes to fix. I just removed the swarf by opening the solenoid valve (once the coil is off, the body untwists like a bayonet lightbulb) and removing it.

I review primarily to inform the customer and help the manufacturers improve machines...because I enjoy doing it as a hobby.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@DavecUK, for the Minima, how hard would it be to swap the pump out with a quieter version, "pumpX" like the Elizabeth?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

HVL87 said:


> After speaking with a certain retailer they confirmed the sticky puck issue on the Elizabeth but didn't mention it being an issue on the P300.


 Interesting, I can see that. When I was having issues with the stuck pucks, I researched this a lot and found very little on the same happening with the Pro-300. I'm not sure if it would work, but it occurred to me to try and use the Pro-300 dispersion plate on the Elizabeth to see if the problem goes away. Not an easy spare to source though.


----------



## L2en

My Elizabeth has arrived to England last night, I strongly suspect not on the back of a lorry, but rather airplane.
However I've just lost all sense of taste this morning, and I've spent last two days in bed, so I have no idea when I'll be able to appreciate it properly.

I've chosen Elizabeth for the preinfusion capabilities as I rarely drink other than light roasts. I do think it will excel in this. Love the Profitec look.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## L2en

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Interesting, I can see that. When I was having issues with the stuck pucks, I researched this a lot and found very little on the same happening with the Pro-300. I'm not sure if it would work, but it occurred to me to try and use the Pro-300 dispersion plate on the Elizabeth to see if the problem goes away. Not an easy spare to source though.


Pucks get stuck on the Silvia too, different grinder helped and using the 18g basket as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @DavecUK, for the Minima, how hard would it be to swap the pump out with a quieter version, "pumpX" like the Elizabeth?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 £70 odd quid hard...as I think that's what a Quiet X pump costs retail ATM. You also have to have the skills of a midwife to get things out of confined spaces.

It's a slight PITA because the pump is here...not super difficult but a few bits have to come out.


----------



## upinsmoke

L2en said:


> My Elizabeth has arrived to England last night


 My tracking still showing mine is stuck in Marly La Ville in France since Saturday early hours. Good news on yours though.


----------



## L2en

upinsmoke said:


> My tracking still showing mine is stuck in Marly La Ville in France since Saturday early hours. Good news on yours though.


 Oh, so obviously very different shipping methods then. Hopefully yours will make it across the Channel soon. Mine has moved from Midlands to Heathrow and now departed from there, it is supossed to be dispatched to my address from Luton, so hopefully it is on its way there.


----------



## upinsmoke

Yeah I have no idea why. Did you go for the £18 delivery option at the top? (Spare parts I think it was). Mine still says that it was requested delivery prior to 18:00 tomorrow so fingers crossed that it's just the tracking updates that are stuck.


----------



## L2en

Yes, the 18 euro option, I don't think there was any other possibility, England was listed just in that first option. Possibly they do use various carriers depending on the day of week or something like that. It is strange.


----------



## L2en

And I just had an email from DHL, that Elizabeth will be delivered today!


----------



## arturhoo

L2en said:


> However I've just lost all sense of taste this morning, and I've spent last two days in bed, so I have no idea when I'll be able to appreciate it properly


 I wish you a speedy recovery!


----------



## L2en

arturhoo said:


> I wish you a speedy recovery!


 Thank you.


----------



## L2en

Liz has arrived, she is rather beautiful, I just really like this style. Letting her to come to room temperature.

DHL delivery driver was the only weak link in the delivery service, could not read the house number 6 and tried to deliver to number 5, no one at home there, so I got text message saying delivery was attempted. Luckily it got sorted in the end.


----------



## L2en

upinsmoke said:


> My tracking still showing mine is stuck in Marly La Ville in France since Saturday early hours. Good news on yours though.


 Any news on your machine?

I'm very very pleased so far, can't taste the coffee, but the extraction looks very nice😃 Made myself milk with honey and garlic, very easy to work with the frothing wand, much less technique required in comparison with Silvia. Have changed the advanced settings as adviced by DavecUK and only managed to reset the machine once😆 I think it will require a bit finer grind than Silvia as my morning espresso for americano was done in 26 seconds including 10 sec preinfusion, the day before it was 40 sec with Silvia.


----------



## Inspector

Liked your tamper collection 😁


----------



## L2en

Inspector said:


> Liked your tamper collection 😁


 I have the Rancilio and Lelit plastic tampers there because of my inability to decide, if I should bin them or put them in storage😃


----------



## upinsmoke

L2en said:


> Any news on your machine?


 Hey, Sorry to hear about your Covid situation and hope you have a speedy recovery and can taste that coffee soon.

Nope, still nothing so far. I've raised a ticket with TNT and Lamacchinadelcaffe are chasing from their side but no update from them as yet. As soon as I saw TNT were being used the alarm bells were ringing. Useless 12 years ago when I used to ship a lot of kit around and they were always last, last resort. Good to see they've really kicked on in the intervening years


----------



## L2en

upinsmoke said:


> Hey, Sorry to hear about your Covid situation and hope you have a speedy recovery and can taste that coffee soon.
> 
> Nope, still nothing so far. I've raised a ticket with TNT and Lamacchinadelcaffe are chasing from their side but no update from them as yet. As soon as I saw TNT were being used the alarm bells were ringing. Useless 12 years ago when I used to ship a lot of kit around and they were always last, last resort. Good to see they've really kicked on in the intervening years


 I have never used TNT before, nor was send anything with their service. I will keep your experiences in mind. Hopefully they will move their asses - lorry very soon, fingers crossed.

I did half-enjoy latte this afternoon, it looked nice and kept me warm. But the machine is really a dream to work with, no temp surfing, no waiting and the heat up time for steam boiler is so fast, really do not have to have it on all the time.


----------



## upinsmoke

All is not lost; they might have missed their slot but the tracking page has finally updated and it is in Dartford 

{Edit} Have you gone into the advanced menu yet and used any of Dave's recommended settings?


----------



## L2en

Great, it should be with you soon then.

Yes, I have changed the settings according to Dave's suggestions. The look of the espresso changed a lot after updating the advanced settings probably due to different length steam preinfusion. Still need to dial it up properly after the taste returns, play with the preinfusion timings etc.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Question to the ever growing audience: Does anyone here ever steam and brew at the same time? How do you find it? If you do, what PID settings do you have?

What I find is that... Steam definitely suffers. Brew temp maybe too, but I it's harder to measure. The steam temperature goes from 140C down to below 130C. Presumably the machine heats up the boilers in quick succession, trying to keep steam and brew temperature at bay, and the heating elements cannot keep up in parallel. The same issue was observed in my old Pro-700, which costs almost twice the price, so no news here, it's just how it is. More expensive machines suffer from the same issue. 🙂

I was wondering if anyone has tried and whether anyone had good results. my PID settings are as per DavecUK's settings.

To be clear: I have no issues with steaming what so ever, as long as I brew first and steam afterwards. 🙂

And an important detail: I usually steam 230ml of milk straight out of the fridge.


----------



## Inspector

I am using Dave's settings and I haven't noticed that on mine when brewing and steaming at the same time but I will check tomorrow on final temps and update here.

(I steam 180ml of milk)


----------



## profesor_historia

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Question to the ever growing audience: Does anyone here ever steam and brew at the same time? How do you find it? If you do, what PID settings do you have?
> What I find is that... Steam definitely suffers. Brew temp maybe too, but I it's harder to measure. The steam temperature goes from 140C down to below 130C. Presumably the machine heats up the boilers in quick succession, trying to keep steam and brew temperature at bay, and the heating elements cannot keep up in parallel. The same issue was observed in my old Pro-700, which costs almost twice the price, so no news here, it's just how it is. More expensive machines suffer from the same issue.
> I was wondering if anyone has tried and whether anyone had good results. my PID settings are as per DavecUK's settings.
> To be clear: I have no issues with steaming what so ever, as long as I brew first and steam afterwards.
> And an important detail: I usually steam 230ml of milk straight out of the fridge.


I have the Rancilio Pro. The service boiler temperature is 122C from the factory and didn't touch it as I am happy with the steaming power. Cannot see the drop in temperature during steaming as the PID only shows the brew pressure. Although I could brew and steam in the same time I prefer to steam after brewing. Until now my machine works like clockwork







.

Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

profesor_historia said:


> I have the Rancilio Pro. The service boiler temperature is 122C from the factory and didn't touch it as I am happy with the steaming power. Cannot see the drop in temperature during steaming as the PID only shows the brew pressure. Although I could brew and steam in the same time I prefer to steam after brewing. Until now my machine works like clockwork   .
> 
> Sent from my ALP-L09 using Tapatalk


 Give it a go Professor. See what happens. On my old Pro-700, there was a simple solution to that: one of the options in the machine settings was to slow both boilers to work together (I.e: both drawing energy at the same time.) When that was enabled, steaming and brewing st the same time was not an issue. More recently however, that option no longer exists, and the machine only draws energy alternating brew and service boiler. Presumably the Elizabeth does something very similar, as most of modern machines.


----------



## Inspector

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Question to the ever growing audience: Does anyone here ever steam and brew at the same time? How do you find it? If you do, what PID settings do you have?
> 
> What I find is that... Steam definitely suffers. Brew temp maybe too, but I it's harder to measure. The steam temperature goes from 140C down to below 130C. Presumably the machine heats up the boilers in quick succession, trying to keep steam and brew temperature at bay, and the heating elements cannot keep up in parallel. The same issue was observed in my old Pro-700, which costs almost twice the price, so no news here, it's just how it is. More expensive machines suffer from the same issue. 🙂
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has tried and whether anyone had good results. my PID settings are as per DavecUK's settings.
> 
> To be clear: I have no issues with steaming what so ever, as long as I brew first and steam afterwards. 🙂
> 
> And an important detail: I usually steam 230ml of milk straight out of the fridge.


 Ok. I have just tested this on mine. Made two lattes both 180ml milk, brewed for 36seconds.

Brew temp93

Steam temp141

Brewed and steamed at the same time : After seeing OK on the screen when brewing was done, brewing temp was 86degrees steaming temp was 141.

Brewed first : After seeing OK on screen, brew temp was 91 degrees.

I gave the first one to my wife for testing purposes 😋 , she said her latte is delicious as usual 😊

But this means, when brewing and steaming at the same time machine gives priority to steam boiler. From 86degrees to come back up to 93 degrees took about 20 seconds.


----------



## DavecUK

Inspector said:


> But this means, when brewing and steaming at the same time machine gives priority to steam boiler. From 86degrees to come back up to 93 degrees took about 20 seconds.


 That's quite correct, this is because during the shot, the drop in brew boiler temperature, doesn't affect shot temperature as the entry water is near the thermal probe and the shot is already so far through with about 30+ ml of brew water above the puck, that there is no effect on shot temperature at all.

By the time the next shot is prepped the system has recovered


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> Ok. I have just tested this on mine. Made two lattes both 180ml milk, brewed for 36seconds.
> 
> Brew temp93
> 
> Steam temp141
> 
> Brewed and steamed at the same time : After seeing OK on the screen when brewing was done, brewing temp was 86degrees steaming temp was 141.
> 
> Brewed first : After seeing OK on screen, brew temp was 91 degrees.
> 
> I gave the first one to my wife for testing purposes 😋 , she said her latte is delicious as usual 😊
> 
> But this means, when brewing and steaming at the same time machine gives priority to steam boiler. From 86degrees to come back up to 93 degrees took about 20 seconds.


 You'll find it's not quite that simple I don't think. The fact is, the service boiler, configured as a full on/full off and with a dead band of 1C - if you use DavecUK's settings - recovers at an incredible fast speed. So, but the time you see the OK screen (20 seconds have passed) the brew boiler has recovered somehow.

Next time you steam after brewing - so there's no "OK" interference - keep pressing the "+" button on the display so you can monitor the steam temp whilst steaming. You'll notice it goes down by almost 8C-10C during steaming, but by the time you finish steaming, clean the the wand and purge (say, 10s) it's already back to 141C or thereabouts.

Conversely, you will also notice that the brew boiler temp doesn't stay put either during steaming. It goes up. Meaning that, as far as I can see, both get power in an alternate way.

We are basically being very picky about our machine, and this is, really, a non-issue, as I've seen this in others machines too. But I do like to understand what goes on behind the scenes. The only test though is to open the machine up and put a multimeter on the heating element and brew boiler element to see what is exactly happening. But I do not think there's a "steam priority" or "brew priority" mode at all - of course, I can always be wrong. So happy to be corrected by someone who knows it for sure.


----------



## DavecUK

It definitely moves to steam priority...the reason you see a temp drop is because water flashing off to steam at reduced pressure when you open the valve removes vast amounts of energy from the steam boiler.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> It definitely moves to steam priority...the reason you see a temp drop is because water flashing off to steam at reduced pressure when you open the valve removes vast amounts of energy from the steam boiler.


 Thanks. I understand that. But the steam priority does not explain the brew boiler temperature going up whilst steaming, that's my point.

In fact, there's a very simple test that can be done without the interference of the timer value and the subsequent "OK"

- Set brew temp to 86C;
- Let it stabilise;
- Turn brew temperature to 94C;
- Start steaming;

Watch the brew temperature and also do spot checks (with the "+" button) on the steam temp. If the brew temperature creeps back up whilst the steam tap is open, and the steam temp is stable around 132C-135C, then somehow it's trying to keep both going.

If the brew temp only goes up once one stops steaming and the steam temp goes back to within the target temperature range, then we know it has steam temp priority.


----------



## DavecUK

The key here is Priority, not exclusivity


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> The key here is Priority, not exclusivity


 Ha! OK! 🙂 - That makes sense in my world then. 👍 - I was going to edit my previous post and say "FULL priority" but you clarified it for me first. And "exclusivity" is a much better word! Thank you!


----------



## upinsmoke

And it's here. First shot pulled and not bad considering my lack of skills. 2 shots to get the grinder in the rough vicinity and the third was drinkable.


----------



## woodymogs

Had my machine for just about a month now but have only previously done the automatic backflushing process. So today I decided to have a go at the 'hybrid' backflush as recommended by @DavecUK I think it all went well but I've a couple of questions that hopefully someone can answer. First, the pressure when backflushing never goes beyond around 10, whereas in Dave's video it looks to go all the way to 12. Second, when the pressure cycle finishes, some water is released into the drip tray from somewhere towards the rear of the machine - is this normal? I'm just a bit paranoid as it's my first ever non-automatic backflush!


----------



## Inspector

upinsmoke said:


> And it's here. First shot pulled and not bad considering my lack of skills. 2 shots to get the grinder in the rough vicinity and the third was drinkable.
> 
> View attachment 49735


 😁 Queen of the chess board.


----------



## Inspector

woodymogs said:


> Had my machine for just about a month now but have only previously done the automatic backflushing process. So today I decided to have a go at the 'hybrid' backflush as recommended by @DavecUK I think it all went well but I've a couple of questions that hopefully someone can answer. First, the pressure when backflushing never goes beyond around 10, whereas in Dave's video it looks to go all the way to 12. Second, when the pressure cycle finishes, some water is released into the drip tray from somewhere towards the rear of the machine - is this normal? I'm just a bit paranoid as it's my first ever non-automatic backflush!


 1 normal

2 normal

👍


----------



## woodymogs

Inspector said:


> 1 normal
> 
> 2 normal
> 
> 👍


 Many thanks


----------



## Chrism09

Solenoid failure 1 month in......#facepalm

I hope I didn't make a mistake going for another Lelit 

Excuse the awful coffee choice (I needed something nasty to burn through as Lelit and the dealer have asked for videos of the fault and my good stuff aint getting used for that!)

@DavecUK Coil failure on the three way valve would you say? The dealer says they can't 'hear' the problem just the pump, it's extremely clear during the preinfusion stage when the group valve operates without the pump. I've heard some machines have a very slight buzz during the preinfusion and others seem silent (like yours @DavecUK) my only experience is with Parker valves, not sure if these Olab valves are any good, hopefully I am just unlucky.

I will take apart and clean first then if that doesn't help hopefully the dealer will send replacement FOC.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ajhyiw66rtz6mox/IMG_0913.MOV?dl=0


----------



## DavecUK

Just something caught under the seat of the valve

On my Minima the other day I got a lout buzzing, on that the solenoid pulls down a metal slug with seals on it and there was a tiny fleck of metal lodged on the bottom seat, enough to the solenoid started chattering, because the slug couldn't go down all the way..

F









For a Minima solenoid it's easy, drop the coil off and the metal pipe with the slug and seal inside twists of like a lightbulb bayonet fitting, no tools required. Took me a few minutes to fix.


----------



## Chrism09

Brilliant thanks for that Dave, I'll give it a clean and let you know!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Chrism09 said:


> Brilliant thanks for that Dave, I'll give it a clean and let you know!


 Good stuff! Please paste a few pics and let us know how hard or easy it was. Good luck.


----------



## DavecUK

Chrism09 said:


> Brilliant thanks for that Dave, I'll give it a clean and let you know!


 Obviously the Elizabeth one won't be exactly the same, but look for something preventing it from pulling in completely. What happens is the little gap and the spring tension allow them to buzz at 50Hz. I don't think there will be anything wrong with the coil. When they get old sometimes the shading coil can go, bit it's fairly rare. The coils on those valves have a very long service life (I have solenoids in my Pinball tables that are over 50 years old and still working fine). The little sealing slug with a pin and the sealing o'ring on the stem of the minima, sure I might have to replace those in 10 or 15 years, but they are a few euros.


----------



## HVL87

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Question to the ever growing audience: Does anyone here ever steam and brew at the same time? How do you find it? If you do, what PID settings do you have?
> 
> What I find is that... Steam definitely suffers. Brew temp maybe too, but I it's harder to measure. The steam temperature goes from 140C down to below 130C. Presumably the machine heats up the boilers in quick succession, trying to keep steam and brew temperature at bay, and the heating elements cannot keep up in parallel. The same issue was observed in my old Pro-700, which costs almost twice the price, so no news here, it's just how it is. More expensive machines suffer from the same issue. 🙂
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has tried and whether anyone had good results. my PID settings are as per DavecUK's settings.
> 
> To be clear: I have no issues with steaming what so ever, as long as I brew first and steam afterwards. 🙂
> 
> And an important detail: I usually steam 230ml of milk straight out of the fridge.


 I have to say this is convincing me to go with a Minima with its bigger boilers, or would it have the same "issue"? With steam power on the Minima being so powerful you can finish steaming before the espresso is pulled!


----------



## cuprajake

Why do people make such a deal out of having to steam and pull a shot at the same time?

Takes 30s for the shot and about 20s for the milk,

Might be me, but whats the thinking behind it


----------



## HVL87

I don't think it's a big deal, I would just like the option of being able to do it with a dual boiler, without sacrificing performance.


----------



## Chrism09

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @DavecUK, for the Minima, how hard would it be to swap the pump out with a quieter version, "pumpX" like the Elizabeth?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 The mounts will be the biggest issue as the new 'Silent' (psss, it's not Silent!) uses a clip in mount with notched holes, you might need the dremmel. Great price on the pump here: https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/pompe-valvole-lelit.html



MediumRoastSteam said:


> Good stuff! Please paste a few pics and let us know how hard or easy it was. Good luck.


 Will do mate, I'm used to the innards of machines and have taken apart a Parker solenoid before although that actually had a bad shading coil so hopefully it won't be too difficult, access is the Elizabeth's biggest problem, so much quality stuff packed into that tiny chassis, I wish it were about half as deep again tbh, would make my pump mod way easier! It looks like the solenoid I need to access is easy to get to though fingers crossed!


----------



## DavecUK

I just bloody realised, Lelit are sending me a package, already shipped and I forgot to ask them to stick a couple of QuietX pumps in.

I should have done, so I could change out one of the Minima pumps. Even though the mounts be attach to the case in different ways, the pump fittings are standard.


----------



## HVL87

DavecUK said:


> I just bloody realised, Lelit are sending me a package, already shipped and I forgot to ask them to stick a couple of QuietX pumps in.
> 
> I should have done, so I could change out one of the Minima pumps. Even though the mounts be attach to the case in different ways, the pump fittings are standard.


 Is the Minima pump significantly louder?


----------



## DavecUK

HVL87 said:


> Is the Minima pump significantly louder?


 Yes, although the Minima is not too bad, the Xpump is very quiet for a vibe pump and in the thick Minima case should work really well.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

HVL87 said:


> I have to say this is convincing me to go with a Minima with its bigger boilers, or would it have the same "issue"? With steam power on the Minima being so powerful you can finish steaming before the espresso is pulled!


 Not sure. It doesn't mean the Elizabeth can't do it, but I find it's not as effective as if it was done in sequence rather than parallel. To your point, my Profitec with s service boiler 3.5 times the size of the the Elizabeth, I had the same issue if not worse. Irrespectively, why are you choosing the Elizabeth over the Minima? Why not go for the Minima or the Bianca?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake said:


> Why do people make such a deal out of having to steam and pull a shot at the same time?
> 
> Takes 30s for the shot and about 20s for the milk,
> 
> Might be me, but whats the thinking behind it


 Did I ever said it was a "deal" or an issue? Nope. It was just a comment based on experience, which caused a debate and asked other people's experiences. In my case, sometimes I enjoy doing so, and thus made the observation.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Another thing I was wondering, overall with Lelit machines in that class... Why don't they add increments of half degrees Celcius rather than one? It's not that they can't fit into the display... and it's not that they can't handle it, because if you change to Fahrenheit, you technically achieve exactly that of an approximation, e.g: 92.8C = 199F, 93.5C = 200F, 93.8C = 201F, 94.4C = 202F.


----------



## HVL87

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Not sure. It doesn't mean the Elizabeth can't do it, but I find it's not as effective as if it was done in sequence rather than parallel. To your point, my Profitec with s service boiler 3.5 times the size of the the Elizabeth, I had the same issue if not worse. Irrespectively, why are you choosing the Elizabeth over the Minima? Why not go for the Minima or the Bianca?


 Both the Elizabeth and Minima have pros and cons which I continue to debate. I am leaning towards the Minima at the moment, although this can change on any given day 😄

Not sure I can justify the Bianca at this point, otherwise it would be an easy decision. Can I ask why you chose the Elizabeth over the competition?

@DavecUK would you see a similar drop in steam performance on the Minima when brewing and steaming simultaneously?


----------



## DavecUK

HVL87 said:


> 😄
> 
> @DavecUK would you see a similar drop in steam performance on the Minima when brewing and steaming simultaneously?


 Minima steam performance exceeds that of most prosumer machines.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Elizabeth... pulling a shot and steaming at the same time ❤


----------



## Inspector

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Elizabeth... pulling a shot and steaming at the same time ❤
> 
> View attachment 49782


 If you brewed first then steamed, I am fairly sure that latte art would have been better.

😂😜


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> If you brewed first then steamed, I am fairly sure that latte art would have been better.
> 
> 😂😜


 Thing is... Wondered why I only took a photo post-event? 😂 - It's always hit and miss, whether it's steaming at the same time or afterwards, no matter the methodology used! 👍😂

On a serious note... I turned the machine on in Eco mode. Waited until it fully heated up and stabilised, and then turned eco mode off. As predicted, the temperature of the brew boiler went down from 93 to 89. This proves the theory that the steam boiler has priority. Whether it's full priority or just some sort of preference at times, I'm not sure, but presumably if it was full priority we would have seen a further decline in temperature rather than a mere 4C.


----------



## upinsmoke

I have drunk so much coffee today 😵 Quite interesting chasing the taste rather than the buzz though. I used to just set the B2C machine to as fine as it could push with the biggest dose available. Looking forward to getting some new beans in and learning how to dial them in.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Quick update on this steam and brew at the same time. I realised I was making a gross mistake, and hence I was getting some suboptimal results. I don't often steam and brew at the same time, but sometimes I just fancy it.

TL;DR: if you want to steam and brew at the same time, make sure you only start steaming *after* the steam pre-infusion phase is over.

long version:

So... I drink medium/light roast beans. I have my Elizabeth setup with a *steam* pre-infusion of 12s, so quite long.

So, today, I started steaming as soon as the pre-infusion ended. And guess what? Absolutely fine! So, the mistake I was making before was to start steaming as soon as I hit the brew button. Big mistakes: with steam pre-infusion, all of a sudden the little 600ml steam boiler (I think it's ok to call this in the Lizzy rather than service boiler because it doesn't really serves the hot water) has to apply pre-infusion pressure on the brew boiler AND serve the steam wand. Of course steam would suffer as a consequence.

Kudos to Lelit for a wonderful machine. The steam performance - and brew performance - of this little machine, combined with the clever controller impresses me every day.


----------



## L2en

upinsmoke said:


> I have drunk so much coffee today 😵 Quite interesting chasing the taste rather than the buzz though. I used to just set the B2C machine to as fine as it could push with the biggest dose available. Looking forward to getting some new beans in and learning how to dial them in.


 I still can't taste much, even if this morning americano with milk tasted very much like strawberries with milk, the coffee being Ibanda from Django, which does say strawberry flavour. But I think it is just taste buds confusion at the moment. I can't wait to start playing with espressos.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

L2en said:


> I still can't taste much, even if this morning americano with milk tasted very much like strawberries with milk, the coffee being Ibanda from Django, which does say strawberry flavour. But I think it is just taste buds confusion at the moment. I can't wait to start playing with espressos.


 I love strawberry milk smoothie... Not too bad then 🙂 - Get well soon!


----------



## beanere2long

Just updating the advanced settings as per @DavecUKsway document.

For this setting, my machine was at 20.0 and yet this suggests 0.0 (but seems to imply this is not a change from the factory setting)

KDs = 0.0 (PID derivative value steam boiler - not required, no benefit to changing this value you don't really want derivative on this boiler)

Can someone confirm?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

beanere2long said:


> Just updating the advanced settings as per @DavecUKsway document.
> 
> For this setting, my machine was at 20.0 and yet this suggests 0.0 (but seems to imply this is not a change from the factory setting)
> 
> KDs = 0.0 (PID derivative value steam boiler - not required, no benefit to changing this value you don't really want derivative on this boiler)
> 
> Can someone confirm?


 Just key in whatever is in Dave's review - you won't regret it.

PS: I can confirm that the factory setting is 20. You can check all the factory settings if you reset your machine. I wouldn't bother. 😉

Also, in terms of steam temperature, stick to 140C (default from the factory, but the settings from the factory were 135C + Offset of 5C. But we don't want an offset there because we want to read the steam temperature inside the boiler, not at the steam wand nozzle. 🙂


----------



## beanere2long

Ok, will do thanks - just wanted to double check I'd read it right!

Now the journey begins to trying to make good coffee...

Can't blame the kit 😂


----------



## wave

My Elizabeth came from factory with low brewing pressure so following help from forum members I adjusted it.

Currently it brews at 10 bars; I am wondering if this is now too high and needs to be spot on 9bar.

Any advice?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DavecUK

I wouldn't over worry...


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

wave said:


> My Elizabeth came from factory with low brewing pressure so following help from forum members I adjusted it.
> 
> Currently it brews at 10 bars; I am wondering if this is now too high and needs to be spot on 9bar.
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Don't worry about it. Mine is the same.

Also check here (this thread)

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/?do=embed&comment=795789&embedComment=795789&embedDo=findComment

There's a video of me somewhere in this thread and I show the pressure on mine machine if you want to be doubly sure.

If you read around the post above, anything between 9 and 10 should be within the acceptable range. I honestly would not bother changing it further - doesn't mean you can't - but 10 seems fine to me.


----------



## wave

Thanks all, I will then leave as is.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## beanere2long

Probably a silly question, but in the process of the machine starting up and getting up to temperature I assume it's normal for it to go way up over the 93 degrees I have it set at (see pic) and then come back down?

It goes up to about 117 degrees in 10 mins, then slowly back down to 93 after another 5 mins.

Also - there isn't any sort of beep or visual cue when it's 'ready' right?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

beanere2long said:


> Probably a silly question, but in the process of the machine starting up and getting up to temperature I assume it's normal for it to go way up over the 93 degrees I have it set at (see pic) and then come back down?
> 
> It goes up to about 117 degrees in 10 mins, then slowly back down to 93 after another 5 mins.
> 
> Also - there isn't any sort of beep or visual cue when it's 'ready' right?
> 
> View attachment 50003


 All normal. And no beeps or any other visual clues apart from the temperature indicated in the display. Question: are you still using DavecUK's PID settings or are you using the factory settings?


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

beanere2long said:


> Probably a silly question, but in the process of the machine starting up and getting up to temperature I assume it's normal for it to go way up over the 93 degrees I have it set at (see pic) and then come back down?
> 
> It goes up to about 117 degrees in 10 mins, then slowly back down to 93 after another 5 mins.
> 
> Also - there isn't any sort of beep or visual cue when it's 'ready' right?


 This is normal behaviour, and only occurs at the initial switch-on. My supplier believes that this is by design, and is part of getting a quick warm up. In use, following the initial warm-up, the Elizabeth quickly recovers and maintains your set brew temperature. There is no auditory cue.


----------



## beanere2long

Great thanks both - yes, this is with @DavecUK settings.

My output 😬


----------



## DavecUK

Paul_from_Oz said:


> This is normal behaviour, and only occurs at the initial switch-on. My supplier believes that this is by design, and is part of getting a quick warm up. In use, following the initial warm-up, the Elizabeth quickly recovers and maintains your set brew temperature. There is no auditory cue.


 This is absolutely correct.


----------



## DavecUK

beanere2long said:


> Probably a silly question, but in the process of the machine starting up and getting up to temperature I assume it's normal for it to go way up over the 93 degrees I have it set at (see pic) and then come back down?
> 
> It goes up to about 117 degrees in 10 mins, then slowly back down to 93 after another 5 mins.
> 
> Also - there isn't any sort of beep or visual cue when it's 'ready' right?


 There isn't any visual cue and it's ready when I said it was ready in my review...which I think was 17 minutes....I actually tested all the different brew temps to come up with that time.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

beanere2long said:


> It goes up to about 117 degrees in 10 mins, then slowly back down to 93 after another 5 mins


 There are some discussions about this in this thread to... mine takes about 20 minutes in total from a cold start in the morning.

maybe mine is a slow coach. 😂😉

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/?do=embed&comment=789265&embedComment=789265&embedDo=findCommenthttps://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/?do=embed&comment=789596&embedComment=789596&embedDo=findComment


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> There isn't any visual cue and it's ready when I said it was ready in my review...which I think was 17 minutes.


 The visual cue is when the target temperature after the initial warmup time is reached, that's my understanding.


----------



## beanere2long

As a novice I was just slightly worried I'd maybe tweaked a setting by accident when inputting Dave's settings - wanted to make sure I hadn't set it up to explode every morning!

Fears allayed, coffee consumed. All is well


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

beanere2long said:


> As a novice I was just slightly worried I'd maybe tweaked a setting by accident when inputting Dave's settings - wanted to make sure I hadn't set it up to explode every morning!
> 
> Fears allayed, coffee consumed. All is well


 Well, when I was keying in Dave's settings and messing about, I managed to reset the settings twice. 😂😊

let us know how you get on with the machine.... and welcome to the club.


----------



## jhf

beanere2long said:


> Pravděpodobně hloupá otázka, ale v procesu spouštění a zahřívání stroje předpokládám, že je normální, aby se dostal nahoru přes 93 stupňů, které mám nastavený (viz obrázek), a pak se vrátil dolů?
> 
> Za 10 minut stoupá na asi 117 stupňů, poté se po dalších 5 minutách pomalu vrací zpět na 93 stupňů.
> 
> Také - neexistuje žádný druh pípnutí nebo vizuální signál, když je „připraven", že?
> 
> View attachment 50003


 Set the LCC to display the desired temperature (94-95 ° C), not current. Then the display will flash for about 12 minutes before "O.K." appears. and the blinking stops. The boiler is heated at that time. Wait another 10 minutes for the head and lever to warm up.


----------



## BiggieBig

Started to use my Machine on Christmas day

brought from lamachinadelcaffe excellent service and even sent what's app pics prior to posting.

@DavecUKand @MediumRoastSteamthanks for all the advice.

Just waiting for Niche grinder now which was mean't to be due in Feb but believe it's been delayed.

Been using the grinder on my Lelit Anita which seems sufficient for now. Loving the coffee and setup using Daves setup.


----------



## BiggieBig

Just ordered 18g VST basket and about to pull the trigger on a Lelit bottomless portafilter.

Now just need to practice my latte art.

Also is the preinfusion of 9 seconds ok for dark roasts ? would you recommend less preinfusion time ?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

BiggieBig said:


> Just ordered 18g VST basket and about to pull the trigger on a Lelit bottomless portafilter.
> 
> Now just need to practice my latte art.
> 
> Also is the preinfusion of 9 seconds ok for dark roasts ? would you recommend less preinfusion time ?


 Start of without pre-infusion. Then try a bloom pre-infusion and then steam pre-infusion. Let your tastebuds guide you.


----------



## Gary5709

Just a quick query, anyone have a problem with coffee puck sticking to the shower screen? I'm using a VST 18g basket and only dosing between 18-18.5 max. Always tamp well and using a naked portafilter which seems to show that I'm not getting any major flow issues so must be prepping basket ok. Just wondering why it seems to happen most times


----------



## DavecUK

@MediumRoastSteam ^^^^^


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Gary5709 said:


> Just a quick query, anyone have a problem with coffee puck sticking to the shower screen? I'm using a VST 18g basket and only dosing between 18-18.5 max. Always tamp well and using a naked portafilter which seems to show that I'm not getting any major flow issues so must be prepping basket ok. Just wondering why it seems to happen most times


 Yes. I mentioned a few times in this thread, and there are ways to solve it. Have you modified the machine in any way? Which grinder are you using? Which coffee?


----------



## cuprajake

When the puck sticks is it a vacuum that causes it to stick?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake said:


> When the puck sticks is it a vacuum that causes it to stick?


 Yes.


----------



## Gary5709

I'm have a Eureka Specialita and currently using some Thailand Doi Pangkhon Natural from Hasbean. Very interesting coffee if you've never tried it, as is the Honey washed version. 
I'm not sure the coffee is specifically to blame as the issue was there previously


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Gary5709 said:


> I'm have a Eureka Specialita and currently using some Thailand Doi Pangkhon Natural from Hasbean. Very interesting coffee if you've never tried it, as is the Honey washed version.
> I'm not sure the coffee is specifically to blame as the issue was there previously


 Ok.

What happens when you use the stock basket? Presumably it gets stuck too?

Next time, try this: when you make your coffee, don't disengage the PF straight away. Wait a couple of minutes if you can. Hen when disengaging, hold the PF from the edge of the handle, and push it down, gently, slightly whilst disengaging. Let me know what happens.

are you using the stock group gasket or have you replaced with a silicone version?


----------



## Gary5709

Just using the regular setup, I haven't replaced anything. I'll give the tip a try and see what happens. Will do a shot with the stock basket as well just to see what happens as haven't actually used it since getting the vst. Thanks


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Gary5709 said:


> Just using the regular setup, I haven't replaced anything. I'll give the tip a try and see what happens. Will do a shot with the stock basket as well just to see what happens as haven't actually used it since getting the vst. Thanks


 Yeah, keep me posted please. I'm very interested. I have also recently used an IMS basket with a concave bottom, and it's slightly taller than the VST18g. I can easily fit 20g. Anyway, I've been using with 18g, and no matter what I do, I don't get sticky pucks. At all. With the VST, unless I do the above, it's a sticky puck for sure. For completeness, I used a VST 18g and an eureka Helios grinder and again, no issues what so ever. So it must be a combination of factors which cause this. Anyway, keep me update please,


----------



## ZiggyMarley

I get more stuck pucks with an 18g VST, although sticking pucks seem to occur rarely (maybe once a week). I cannot establish any particular reason, although it does seem to happen more with newly roasted beans

Apart from the mess I am not concerned.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

ZiggyMarley said:


> maybe once a week


 That's normal. I wouldn't worry about that. Can be the coffee as you say. I was getting 3 out of 3 sticky pucks daily..., regardless of the coffee. thankfully not anymore!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Ps: I've started this thread:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/56781-are-you-getting-stickystuck-pucks-please-give-me-your-feedback/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=802114&embedComment=802114&embedDo=findComment#comment-802114


----------



## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> That's normal. I wouldn't worry about that. Can be the coffee as you say. I was getting 3 out of 3 sticky pucks daily..., regardless of the coffee. thankfully not anymore!


 I know and I have no worries.


----------



## Nleng

This thread has helped me understand what to expect from the Elizabeth and I've finally decided to join the club and order one.

I need scales, but I want to get one that fits nicely on the drip tray.

I wondered whether the digital drip scale from BB is a good option or does the inbuilt shot timer negate the need for a timer in the scale?

I'm interested to hear what other Elizabeth owners use?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Nleng said:


> This thread has helped me understand what to expect from the Elizabeth and I've finally decided to join the club and order one.
> 
> I need scales, but I want to get one that fits nicely on the drip tray.
> 
> I wondered whether the digital drip scale from BB is a good option or does the inbuilt shot timer negate the need for a timer in the scale?
> 
> I'm interested to hear what other Elizabeth owners use?


 I use a £4.50 one from eBay... it's crap, laggy, but kind of does the job.

I was thinking of treating myself to an Xmas present and buy the Brifit pocket scales. Check out on Amazon.

welcome to the club. 👍


----------



## cuprajake

The yuaga sclaes blackcat sell are good


----------



## Nleng

Thanks, I'll check them out.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Nleng said:


> Thanks, I'll check them out.


 Link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/High-precision-Back-Lit-Features-Stainless-Batteries/dp/B01JKX4QAC/ref=asc_df_B01JKX4QAC/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309918314783&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11280215075383268041&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007158&hvtargid=pla-488729210360&psc=1


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Gary5709 said:


> Just using the regular setup, I haven't replaced anything. I'll give the tip a try and see what happens. Will do a shot with the stock basket as well just to see what happens as haven't actually used it since getting the vst. Thanks


 Hey there, any updates on this?


----------



## TonyBatty

There are quite a few sellers with similar scales to the one MRS linked to above, one of which I bought in Nov. Works well for me and sits nicely on the drip tray.


----------



## FrancescoS

Hi! Quick question, do you guys use any solution like Puly Milk for the steam wand?

I wipe and purge regularly after every steaming session, but I am not sure if that's enough to keep the wand and tip clean. Thanks!


----------



## L2en

FrancescoS said:


> Hi! Quick question, do you guys use any solution like Puly Milk for the steam wand?
> 
> I wipe and purge regularly after every steaming session, but I am not sure if that's enough to keep the wand and tip clean. Thanks!


 I do, have done it on Silvia and I continue with the same cleaning regime with Elizabeth. I just fill milk jug with water and Rinza milk solution, dip in the steam wand, leave it for a while and then steam the jug of water with solution, afterwards steam a jug filled with clean water.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

FrancescoS said:


> Hi! Quick question, do you guys use any solution like Puly Milk for the steam wand?
> 
> I wipe and purge regularly after every steaming session, but I am not sure if that's enough to keep the wand and tip clean. Thanks!


 I don't. I wipe it clean straight away, and blast steam out. Been using coffee machines since 2011, never used it and never had a problem either.


----------



## wave

Happy New Year Forum!!

I've being further enjoying my Elizabeth during lockdown but still having same issue that from day one.

The seam valve does not seam to close properly except is I do it very strongly. Most of the time stem wand remains hot as some steam keeps coming out.

How strongly do you have to close the valve? I am concerned that if I apply all the pressure needed it could break but maybe this is just normal.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

wave said:


> Happy New Year Forum!!
> 
> I've being further enjoying my Elizabeth during lockdown but still having same issue that from day one.
> 
> The seam valve does not seam to close properly except is I do it very strongly. Most of the time stem wand remains hot as some steam keeps coming out.
> 
> How strongly do you have to close the valve? I am concerned that if I apply all the pressure needed it could break but maybe this is just normal.


 I certainly don't tighten it. I just close it gently - Like, very loosely grip, with two fingers and as soon as it slips, I stop. Doing so, it inevitably drips a bit and spits out a bit if I leave the machine on. I notice that during the morning warm up.

I never really quantified it. I just notice sometimes it makes noises. Then I tighten it a bit further. But it always gently tight, to the point I reckon I could tighten it much, much further.

Maybe do a video of the symptom you have so I can compare to mine?


----------



## FrancescoS

wave said:


> Happy New Year Forum!!
> 
> I've being further enjoying my Elizabeth during lockdown but still having same issue that from day one.
> 
> The seam valve does not seam to close properly except is I do it very strongly. Most of the time stem wand remains hot as some steam keeps coming out.
> 
> How strongly do you have to close the valve? I am concerned that if I apply all the pressure needed it could break but maybe this is just normal.


 Same thing for me. 
I try to not tighten too much - if I am not mistaken another Elizabeth owner had steaming issues because he was tightening the valve too much. Since then I am scared of breaking it 😅

Usually if there is still same steam coming out I close it a bit further, until it stops. I do see water drops every now and then though, but I am assuming is normal since the valve is not fully closed


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

FrancescoS said:


> Same thing for me.
> I try to not tighten too much - if I am not mistaken another Elizabeth owner had steaming issues because he was tightening the valve too much. Since then I am scared of breaking it 😅
> 
> Usually if there is still same steam coming out I close it a bit further, until it stops. I do see water drops every now and then though, but I am assuming is normal since the valve is not fully closed


 Exactly the same here.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@wave @FrancescoS - here

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/?do=embed&comment=795164&embedComment=795164&embedDo=findComment


----------



## spookym

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Like, very loosely grip, with two fingers and as soon as it slips, I stop


 I was interested you used 'slips' , I noticed that when first got the machine I thought the steam knob was a bit rubbish as it seemed to slip on the shaft. I took it off to see how it worked and then pushed it back on harder and it was much better and no more slipping on the shaft.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

spookym said:


> I was interested you used 'slips' , I noticed that when first got the machine I thought the steam knob was a bit rubbish as it seemed to slip on the shaft. I took it off to see how it worked and then pushed it back on harder and it was much better and no more slipping on the shaft.


 Wait: just to be clear: I mean, the steam knob slips on my fingers, not on the shaft.


----------



## wave

Thanks all for your replies.

I do not want to overtight for the reasons given but it seams that if I do not do steam keeps coming out a bit.

It is not an issue to to have some drops but not if wand keeps too warm to hold.

It seams to be a wider design issue but maybe mine is a bit more.


----------



## spookym

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Wait: just to be clear: I mean, the steam knob slips on my fingers, not on the shaft.


 I did wonder! but thought it may be useful if anyone else is having a similar issue!


----------



## wave

spookym said:


> I was interested you used 'slips' , I noticed that when first got the machine I thought the steam knob was a bit rubbish as it seemed to slip on the shaft. I took it off to see how it worked and then pushed it back on harder and it was much better and no more slipping on the shaft.


How did you take it off? Is it just pulling it out out?

Maybe mine is not in the right position.

I love the machine and is very solid except the knob made of cheap plastic.


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

wave said:


> How did you take it off? Is it just pulling it out out?
> 
> Maybe mine is not in the right position.
> 
> I love the machine and is very solid except the knob made of cheap plastic.


 I've replace my steam dial. I used a 45mm diameter electronics knob with grub screw, to suit a round 1/4" (6.35mm) shaft. Gently prise off the existing knob. Slide on the replacement (it will be a loose fit) and gently tighten the grub screw. I aligned the grub screw to secure against a round section of the steam valve shaft.

It feels much nicer to use. Be careful not to crank the steam valve shut - just enough to stop the steam!


----------



## ZiggyMarley

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I don't. I wipe it clean straight away, and blast steam out. Been using coffee machines since 2011, never used it and never had a problem either.


 same here - never a problem When I ran our staffroom b2c commercial machine we were told it was only useful if your machine sucked up cleaner through the wand during its cleaning cycle or we had the add on milk unit


----------



## spookym

I was interested to see how many shots I had pulled on the Elizabeth since receiving at at the end of July. The LLC shot count is 1146 partial, 1148 total (not sure how these are calculated, and took me a while to find out where the shot counter was! It is the last item in the LLC settings menu). Additionally I added up all the coffee I had bought, and divided by dose to get a number of shots that way, which was 930 This equates to 5.5 shots per day which feels about right. Anyway more to say that I havent had any problems and am really happy with the machine given my usage.


----------



## FrancescoS

Hi! My machine started acting up today.

after doing a chemical back flush, it started making weird noises when brewing. See video:






the first shot was button 1, no preinfusion. Second shot has preinfusion set-up.

any idea?


----------



## FrancescoS

to give some extra info

it has been on since 1 pm and I have used it for maybe 8 espresso and a bunch of cappuccino (trying new beans, i don't drink that much!). No weird noises before the backflush, which i have done using Lelit method (button1+water tap)

edit. i apologize for the potato quality video

I have opened up the machine, just to check if there was something obvious to 'fix' - haven't done anything besides touching here and there. the noise seems to have disappeared, but i still have no clue where it came from 😒

edit2: I tried again and after pressing the button I hear a buzzing sound. After that the extraction continues 🤔


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

FrancescoS said:


> to give some extra info
> 
> it has been on since 1 pm and I have used it for maybe 8 espresso and a bunch of cappuccino (trying new beans, i don't drink that much!). No weird noises before the backflush, which i have done using Lelit method (button1+water tap)
> 
> edit. i apologize for the potato quality video
> 
> I have opened up the machine, just to check if there was something obvious to 'fix' - haven't done anything besides touching here and there. the noise seems to have disappeared, but i still have no clue where it came from 😒
> 
> edit2: I tried again and after pressing the button I hear a buzzing sound. After that the extraction continues 🤔


 Some discussion about a similar noises starts here and proceeds over the next page or two...

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/?do=embed&comment=787337&embedComment=787337&embedDo=findComment


----------



## FrancescoS

Paul_from_Oz said:


> Some discussion about a similar noises starts here and proceeds over the next page or two...
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/?do=embed&comment=787337&embedComment=787337&embedDo=findComment


 Thank you again! 
the sound from that video is exactly the same as mine - I suppose same problem. 
I will do some more backflush tomorrow and hopefully the issue fixes itself.

in the meantime I have written Lelit and the seller, maybe they have other recommendations as well


----------



## DavecUK

Solenoid buzz, probably some debris preventing it from opening fully, so it chatters at 50hz.

It might flush out ? If not contact the retailer. I'm not sure which solenoid it is, but try a backflush with cleaner. It could alternatively be the solenoid from steam boiler that does the preinfusion.


----------



## FrancescoS

Hello!

I did another chemical backflush this morning and the machine sounded ok for the whole duration. 
also normal brewing with or without preinfusion sounds ok.

bizzare 🤔 I let you know if Lelit says something else, but for the time being everything seems to be working! 
thanks for the help everybody!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

FrancescoS said:


> Hello!
> 
> I did another chemical backflush this morning and the machine sounded ok for the whole duration.
> also normal brewing with or without preinfusion sounds ok.
> 
> bizzare 🤔 I let you know if Lelit says something else, but for the time being everything seems to be working!
> thanks for the help everybody!


 Something might have got stuck in the solenoid, and now it's cleared off. 🤞


----------



## RobDGio

Had a knock on the door at about 8am.....very pleased to have received my new Elizabeth!

tried Dialling in (never had an espresso machine before) so that's still a work in progress but the wife was happy enough with the latte. Said she'd pay for it in a cafe!

ps any advice on setting depth for a lever and tamp? Currently my puck is about 2-3mm below the basket ridge post tamp (18g dose in stock basket)


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

RobDGio said:


> ps any advice on setting depth for a lever and tamp?


 Try setting to maximum and compress the puck gently. See where it's at and adjust accordingly. You want the grinds to be nice and compressed, but don't over do it.


----------



## RobDGio

Makes sense, thanks. Think my tamp was pretty much set to max depth. I'll do the same with the leveler too.

now I just need to learn how to pull decent shots!


----------



## BiggieBig

I'm starting to like Flat whites with single shots so I can have twice as much 🙂

I have a VST 18g and can tell the quality 🙂 also finding this a little strong at times wonder if it's worth investing in 15g basket to dose less for my doubles ?

Also Is it worth buying the 7g VST will it be massive upgrade over the stock basket ?


----------



## RobDGio

Need a quick bit of help. Trying to do an auto back flush (which I though was coffee button one and hot water button) but this doesn't do anything. I can obviously do it manually by using the purge function with coffee button 1 & 2 (with a blind filter basket for all of the above) but wondered if there is something wrong with my settings. Would prefer to be able to do the "hybrid" back flush that Dave reccomends

I have changed all the advanced lcc settings as per @DavecUKguide and videos. Purge setting for 1&2 set to 6 seconds but as I say the auto back flush doesn't do anything

any advice would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Del

RobDGio said:


> Need a quick bit of help. Trying to do an auto back flush (which I though was coffee button one and hot water button) but this doesn't do anything. I can obviously do it manually by using the purge function with coffee button 1 & 2 (with a blind filter basket for all of the above) but wondered if there is something wrong with my settings. Would prefer to be able to do the "hybrid" back flush that Dave reccomends
> 
> I have changed all the advanced lcc settings as per @DavecUKguide and videos. Purge setting for 1&2 set to 6 seconds but as I say the auto back flush doesn't do anything
> 
> any advice would be greatly appreciated


 You have to press and hold the 1 button THEN the water button. If you press them at the same time it won't start the auto back flush


----------



## RobDGio

Thanks @Del for the quick response. All sorted. Me being daft.


----------



## Del

RobDGio said:


> Thanks @Del for the quick response. All sorted. Me being daft.


 I only know because I did exactly the same thing 🙃


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Del said:


> I only know because I did exactly the same thing 🙃


 I'm pretty sure every single Elizabeth owner has done exactly the same! I actually thought my machine had a version of the software which didn't support automatic backflushing! 🤦‍♂️


----------



## RobDGio

DavecUK said:


> I set up one button for bloom and one for steam preinfusion, then I switch the steam boiler on or off with the - button, depending on which type of preinfusion I want to use. I sometimes find steam pressure preinfusion works well...sometimes bloom phase. It's always worth trying both.
> 
> I run my steam boiler at 140C


 Sorry if this has been asked before.....

Just to clarify.....will the Elizabeth utilise steam pre infusion if the service boiler is on, And only switch to "bloom" pre infusion if switched off (once these parameters have been set)? Does that mean you've set the times you want as per a bloom vs steam preinfusion for the different buttons and access bloom preinfusion by turning steam boiler off? Or do you mean you have specifically been able to eg set button one to do bloom

Struggling to get my head round all Elizabeth's functions

sorry to be a pain as I've been asking a lot on the forum recently


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

RobDGio said:


> Sorry if this has been asked before.....
> 
> Just to clarify.....will the Elizabeth utilise steam pre infusion if the service boiler is on, And only switch to "bloom" pre infusion if switched off (once these parameters have been set)? Does that mean you've set the times you want as per a bloom vs steam preinfusion for the different buttons and access bloom preinfusion by turning steam boiler off? Or do you mean you have specifically been able to eg set button one to do bloom
> 
> Struggling to get my head round all Elizabeth's functions
> 
> sorry to be a pain as I've been asking a lot on the forum recently


 No worries? Did you read / watched Elizabeth's review by @DavecUK? (Very first post of this thread) - If not you, should. It will answer your question here.

In answer to your question:

- Steam pre infusion when steam boiler is ON;
- Bloom pre infusion when steam boiler is OFF; There are other factors explained in the review, not worth mentioning here)

Each button is able to have a pre-set timer for the shot, and a pre-set time for the pre-infusion, irrespectively of what type of pre-infusion you are using.


----------



## RobDGio

MediumRoastSteam said:


> No worries? Did you read / watched Elizabeth's review by @DavecUK? (Very first post of this thread) - If not you, should. It will answer your question here.
> 
> In answer to your question:
> 
> - Steam pre infusion when steam boiler is ON;
> - Bloom pre infusion when steam boiler is OFF; There are other factors explained in the review, not worth mentioning here)
> 
> Each button is able to have a pre-set timer for the shot, and a pre-set time for the pre-infusion, irrespectively of what type of pre-infusion you are using.


 Thank you

that's what I though. I have read the review and have watched Dave's video. Think the sheer level of information was a bit overwhelming and was getting myself confused.

thanks for clarifying


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

RobDGio said:


> Thank you
> 
> that's what I though. I have read the review and have watched Dave's video. Think the sheer level of information was a bit overwhelming and was getting myself confused.
> 
> thanks for clarifying


 Yes. It's best to take bit by bit. It's a lot of info to take in. How are you finding the machine?


----------



## RobDGio

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Yes. It's best to take bit by bit. It's a lot of info to take in. How are you finding the machine?


 Really enjoying things. Steep learning curve as never owned an espresso machine before but getting there. Having said that I feel I'm getting better shots at home with Elizabeth than your typical high street cafe. So very pleased so far.

thought I'd got the hang of dialling in but still getting different flow rates for shots so wondering if this is more puck prep variations (trying to be consistent) guessing it will all come with practice - also assuming will need to tweak grind with different preinfusion slightly too

pleasantly pleased with ease of steaming milk too. Having never done this before wasn't expecting anything remotely good but other than not knowing how to do latte art the milk seems perfect for us at home


----------



## Nleng

When backflushing my machine, I've noticed the pressure displayed doesn't match up with the DaveC's tutorial.

With a blind basket running the auto flush it reaches 8 bar on the first flush and then 9/10 bar for every other flush. For a manual flush it barely reaches 1 bar on the first flush but then reaches 9/10 for every other flush.

I have the manual flush set to the 6 second maximum. However it appears to dispense slightly less water than the auto flush.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Inspector

If you are using the blind basket came with machine, it is quite deep hence does not fill up properly on first time. Mine does the same.


----------



## FrancescoS

> 35 minutes ago, Nleng said:
> 
> When backflushing my machine, I've noticed the pressure displayed doesn't match up with the DaveC's tutorial.
> 
> With a blind basket running the auto flush it reaches 8 bar on the first flush and then 9/10 bar for every other flush. For a manual flush it barely reaches 1 bar on the first flush but then reaches 9/10 for every other flush.
> 
> I have the manual flush set to the 6 second maximum. However it appears to dispense slightly less water than the auto flush.
> 
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


 Mine does the same


----------



## Nleng

Yes I'm using blind filter. What is the max pressure yours gets to on the back-flush? From DaveC's video it looked like it got to 12/13 every time. He also said that it was only the speed to which it got to max pressure which reduced after the first flush.

Did you watch the end of the video where the manual back-flush only resulted in a 1 bar pressure reading. Is that the same for you? DaveC's video had it go straight to 12/13 bar


----------



## Nleng

FrancescoS said:


> Mine does the same


 Well that's reassuring. It seemed odd to me, but at least I'm not alone!


----------



## FrancescoS

Nleng said:


> Yes I'm using blind filter. What is the max pressure yours gets to on the back-flush? From DaveC's video it looked like it got to 12/13 every time. He also said that it was only the speed to which it got to max pressure which reduced after the first flush.
> 
> Did you watch the end of the video where the manual back-flush only resulted in a 1 bar pressure reading. Is that the same for you? DaveC's video had it go straight to 12/13 bar


 My machine has factory setting of 9 bars, therefore when i use the blind filter it stops there.

For the manual back-flush, I have the same thing....maybe it's what Inspector said and the 6 seconds flush is not enough to fill the blind basket. I am not sure.

What I do instead is using Button 1 alone, I wait until pressure goes to 9 bars (i think it takes 10 seconds?), then stop it and let it sit for 30 sec. And then start again following Dave's recommendations.


----------



## Nleng

FrancescoS said:


> What I do instead is using Button 1 alone, I wait until pressure goes to 9 bars (i think it takes 10 seconds?), then stop it and let it sit for 30 sec. And then start again following Dave's recommendations.


 Thanks, seems like a good work around.

I'm probably just being paranoid that something might have gone wrong! 😅


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Nleng said:


> Thanks, seems like a good work around.
> 
> I'm probably just being paranoid that something might have gone wrong! 😅


 There's nothing odd. If the basket is empty, then it will take longer to pressurise fully. 6 seconds is not enough, pressurises to almost 8 bar or so... And vents. At this point, basket is full. Subsequent flushes will require less headspace to fill inside the dispersion/shower screen, hence the pressure builds up quicker. After 6 seconds, it should reach full pressure - approx. 10 bar. Anything after 10 bar will force the expansion valve open. Unless you change that - You do not want or need to do that, because it's perfectly fine as it is! - otherwise the pressure will also be higher when you brew shots. You want the pressure to be between 9 and 10 bar.

If you want to prove the concept:

- Disable pre-infusion on button 1;
- Insert an empty blind basket in the PF;
- Lock the PF;
- Hit button 1;
- See how long it will take to build up to full pressure.
- Hit button 1 to vent;
- Hit button 1: It will now take less time to do so.

Alternatively:

- Disable pre-infusion on button 1;
- Insert an empty blind basket in the PF;
- *Fill up the basket with water to the brim;*
- Lock the PF;
- Hit button 1;
- See how long it will take to build up to full pressure. It will take less time, because the basket is already full.


----------



## Nleng

MediumRoastSteam said:


> If the basket is empty, then it will take longer to pressurise fully. 6 seconds is not enough.


 Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense.

I'm still a bit confused why it only gets to 1 bar of pressure after 6 seconds of pumping. When Dave's gets to max:






I've time stamped the video at his first 6 second flush (2:40).

I'm fine if it's normal, I just don't understand why it's different.

View attachment 20210111_113853_1_1.mp4


View attachment 20210111_113853_1_1.mp4


View attachment 20210111_113853_1_1.mp4


----------



## Inspector

> 17 minutes ago, Nleng said:
> 
> Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense.
> 
> I'm still a bit confused why it only gets to 1 bar of pressure after 6 seconds of pumping. When Dave's gets to max:


 As I said earlier Dave's blind basket is a very shallow one. Lelits original blind basket is very deep therefore takes more water to fill up.


----------



## Nleng

Inspector said:


> As I said earlier Dave's blind basket is a very shallow one. Lelits original blind basket is very deep. So it takes more water to fill up.


 Apologies, I must have missed where you said Dave's basket was shallower.


----------



## Inspector

Nleng said:


> Apologies, I must have missed where you said Dave's basket was shallower.


 Well, I didn't say Dave's basket is a shallow one but I said Lelit's blind basket is very deep 😆 I should have said it that way earlier. Apologies

Ps. My machine behaves exactly the same way as yours. Nothing to worry about there. 👍


----------



## Nleng

Not wanting to drag out a dead topic... But do people think investing in a shallow blank basket could be worth it?

I imagine it might allow for a more concentrated cleaning solution. No idea if this would be more beneficial when chemical back-flushing, or effect the amount of cleaning powder needed 🤔


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Nleng said:


> Not wanting to drag out a dead topic... But do people think investing in a shallow blank basket could be worth it?
> 
> I imagine it might allow for a more concentrated cleaning solution. No idea if this would be more beneficial when chemical back-flushing, or effect the amount of cleaning powder needed 🤔


 Nope. Makes no sense. If you want to increase the concentration... Add more detergent. Also cheaper. I just do as per the instructions 3g or 4g and move on with my life.


----------



## RobDGio

Nleng said:


> Not wanting to drag out a dead topic... But do people think investing in a shallow blank basket could be worth it?
> 
> I imagine it might allow for a more concentrated cleaning solution. No idea if this would be more beneficial when chemical back-flushing, or effect the amount of cleaning powder needed 🤔


 I have one of the shallow ones, came with a group head cleaning brush. Was very inexpensive but it gets stuck to the gasket/grouphead so will be using the provided lelit.


----------



## FrancescoS

Concerning the solenoid issue I had last week, Lelit after watching the video confirmed that most likely something was blocking the valve and causing the issue. So thanks a lot to everyone for understanding the issue and helping me!

They also say that if the machine doesn't respond properly I would need to replace that part. However so far everything is working fine, I hope it continues like this

However I was wondering, let's imagine that maybe some debris is still stuck in the solenoid, would this cause any issue to the machine? Can something 'break' or is it ok to use?

EDIT: I also got an answer from the retailer I bought the machine from, who said: 'it sounds great, nothing wrong with it' 🙄


----------



## mart242

Just a quick note to say that thanks to MediumRoastSteam, other members, and mainly DaveC I have ordered an Elizabeth to replace my old Brasilia Lady. While the Lady could pull some really nice shots thanks to its Rossi group, steam was sub par and I want to see what pre-infusion is like. I looked at the MaraX and a few others but am definitely not a fan of the E61 group even though I've never tried one (long heat time, maintenance, ..) and did not want to spend too much (although the Elizabeth is pretty damn expensive here in Canada).

So Dave, your review was really appreciated and the fact that you refused to review the crap machines (including the Elizabeth initially) validates that. I wanted to point that out.

Looking forward to it and hoping that it's a good match for my mignon specialita grinder because I've already spent too much!


----------



## Tempest

mart242 said:


> Looking forward to it and hoping that it's a good match for my mignon specialita grinder because I've already spent too much!


 You'll be fine! I have no intention of upgrading mine any time soon


----------



## arturhoo

Small update after ~1 month. Still very happy with the investment on the Elizabeth. I've managed to get consistent shots with the following routine:

1. Coffee ground into the Niche basket
2. Portafilter/basket fitted with a dosing funnel (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07R8ZRTGS/)
3. Coffee into the basket
4. Distribute the coffee with a wooden toothpick
5. Tap the portafilter twice in the mat
6. Distribute the coffee with a coffee distributor (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B077BZ4CV6/) - this also tamps it very slightly
7. Tamp using the 58.4 tamper

A bit involved but it doesn't take long and is definitely worth it in my case.

Quick video of yesterday's coffee:


----------



## BiggieBig

> On 11/01/2021 at 12:17, Nleng said:
> 
> When backflushing my machine, I've noticed the pressure displayed doesn't match up with the DaveC's tutorial.
> 
> With a blind basket running the auto flush it reaches 8 bar on the first flush and then 9/10 bar for every other flush. For a manual flush it barely reaches 1 bar on the first flush but then reaches 9/10 for every other flush.
> 
> I have the manual flush set to the 6 second maximum. However it appears to dispense slightly less water than the auto flush.
> 
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


 Lol I just came on here about to ask the same question. Only to see the response from usual helpful members here 🙂

amazing how we all seem to be going through the same motions 🙂


----------



## DavecUK

FrancescoS said:


> Concerning the solenoid issue I had last week, Lelit after watching the video confirmed that most likely something was blocking the valve and causing the issue. So thanks a lot to everyone for understanding the issue and helping me!
> 
> 1. They also say that if the machine doesn't respond properly I would need to replace that part. However so far everything is working fine, I hope it continues like this
> 
> 2. However I was wondering, let's imagine that maybe some debris is still stuck in the solenoid, would this cause any issue to the machine? Can something 'break' or is it ok to use?


 1. yes, although you can actually dismantle and remove...it's really unlikely that it cannot be fixed. e.g. a defective shading coil or something.

2.Nope, no problem, nothing can break and it's fine to use.

In all probability you won't ever get this problem again. Solenoid valves on all machines seem to be an incredibly reliable...component. Rarely do they give problems and often last decades.


----------



## stassinari

Just want to shout out to this forum, and DaveC in particular for being the main culprit for sending me into this crazy rabbit hole.

The Elizabeth + Niche combo is a really satisfying one (albeit quite daunting for a first-time espresso noob).


----------



## DavecUK

@stassinari In no time at all you will be wondering what all the fuss is about....It will be as easy as putting on a pair of comfortable slippers. Just follow the simple guidance from people here and all your shots are going to look/taste great.


----------



## Del

stassinari said:


> Just want to shout out to this forum, and DaveC in particular for being the main culprit for sending me into this crazy rabbit hole.
> 
> The Elizabeth + Niche combo is a really satisfying one (albeit quite daunting for a first-time espresso noob).
> 
> View attachment 51387


 Here here, but I think @MediumRoastSteam has a lot to answer for too!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Has anyone in this fine club been getting stuck pucks with an IMS basket? If so, which one?


----------



## Del

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Has anyone in this fine club been getting stuck pucks with an IMS basket? If so, which one?


 I've a 18g ridgeless IMS (EDIT, VST!!) basket and got my first stuck puck in ages a few days ago on the first shot after doing a full backflush cycle. None since.

I'm loading in 16g of coffee.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Del said:


> I've a 18g ridgeless IMS basket and got my first stuck puck in ages a few days ago on the first shot after doing a full backflush cycle. None since.
> 
> I'm loading in 16g of coffee.


 Good to know this.

Could you let me know the model of the basket when you have the chance? Thanks!


----------



## Del

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Good to know this.
> 
> Could you let me know the model of the basket when you have the chance? Thanks!


 It's a VST Precision Filter Basket 18g. The coffee is blooming (pun intended) delicious too!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Del said:


> I've a 18g ridgeless IMS basket and got my first stuck puck in ages a few days ago on the first shot after doing a full backflush cycle. None since.
> 
> I'm loading in 16g of coffee.





MediumRoastSteam said:


> Good to know this.
> 
> Could you let me know the model of the basket when you have the chance? Thanks!





Del said:


> It's a VST Precision Filter Basket 18g. The coffee is blooming (pun intended) delicious too!


 I'm confused! Is it an IMS or VST basket?


----------



## Del

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I'm confused! Is it an IMS or VST basket?


 Ha! I'm a moron, it's a VST! Sorry for the confusion!
https://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/vst/products/vst-filter-basket?variant=33183861932085


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Del said:


> Ha! I'm a moron, it's a VST! Sorry for the confusion!
> https://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/vst/products/vst-filter-basket?variant=33183861932085


 Ha! I want someone to disprove my experiment. I've been testing IMS 26.5h baskets - and I haven't had a stuck puck yet, no matter how hard I try! With a VST basket, I have to be careful not to have one. I'm conscious this is grinder and beans dependent, but the fact that the IMS baskets seem to effectively solve it kind of solve the issue for me, is something!


----------



## bk85

I'm using the stock basket, had no stuck pucks until I recently switched beans. Now about 25% of my pucks get stuck. I've the feeling that a finer grind causes more stuck pucks. I dose 16g of coffee, as i said stock basket and portfilter.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

bk85 said:


> I've the feeling that a finer grind causes more stuck pucks.


 Of course it does. 🙂 - That's just physics. I was getting 99% of pucks stuck with Niche and light roasts, stock basket or VST. Went to Bella Barista, tried my machine there, with their grinder (Eureka Helios) for two hours. Not a single stuck puck. 🙂

I can say confidently now that the IMS baskets I tested don't seem to cause stuck pucks. Very weird.


----------



## spookydoo

> On 17/01/2021 at 17:01, arturhoo said:
> 
> Small update after ~1 month. Still very happy with the investment on the Elizabeth. I've managed to get consistent shots with the following routine:
> 
> 1. Coffee ground into the Niche basket
> 2. Portafilter/basket fitted with a dosing funnel (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07R8ZRTGS/)
> 3. Coffee into the basket
> 4. Distribute the coffee with a wooden toothpick
> 5. Tap the portafilter twice in the mat
> 6. Distribute the coffee with a coffee distributor (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B077BZ4CV6/) - this also tamps it very slightly
> 7. Tamp using the 58.4 tamper
> 
> A bit involved but it doesn't take long and is definitely worth it in my case.
> 
> Quick video of yesterday's coffee:


 Hiya, that's pretty much my routine as well. I haven't got a dosing funnel or the naked portafilter but grinding into the cup, invert onto the portafilter, little stir with a cocktail stick to even out the void, spinning with the Motta 58.5 leveller and tamp with the Motta 58.4 seems to get consistent results.


----------



## spookydoo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Has anyone in this fine club been getting stuck pucks with an IMS basket? If so, which one?


 No, i upgraded to an IMS shortly after purchasing the machine and it's all been good. I got the Competitizione B68 2T H24.5. I usually dose 18g and there seems to be fair bit of headspace. Usually very minor residue left on the screen after pulling a shot.

On a similar but slightly unrelated note i unscrewed the twin spouts from the portafilter recently. I saw the spouts seemed a bit dirty and wasn't sure if it was coffee residue or not, figured they would be easier to clean if detached. Unscrewing took a fair bit of effort but getting it back on was a bit stressful. It seemed like it needed a final turn as there was still a bit of exposed thread and was a bit loose but couldn't even get a quarter turn. I had some threadlocker so just applied it and it's been fine since.

Ever since then the spent pucks have dropped out of the basket super easy, sometimes not even needing a tap. Coffee is unaffected and pucks are still firm and not soupy so i am not worried about this. Just a coincidence maybe?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

spookydoo said:


> Just a coincidence maybe?


 most likely a coincidence - I'd say so.


----------



## Inspector

Yeah whatever i did, after a backflush, first puck always sticks to shower screen. Does not matter how gently i twist and remove the portafilter.

Niche + VST 18 gram 18 gram filled tried with various beans and rested-unrested beans.

It does not bother anymore...


----------



## BiggieBig

I think I've done so much reading and videos that I've confused myself.

so I have the machine setup using daves settings and I'm now experimenting with my Niche to get the ideal recipe for medium/dark roast using book values.

So I'm aiming to dose 18g in and 36g out or 8g in and 16g out.

if I use the 14 sec pre-infusion (option 2) bloom pre-infusion then Daves example mentions 24s (pump run) would this be too short or do I aim for 28-32 ish hence total 42s-46s total.

Also would it be same timing for a 8g single ?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@BiggieBig - Which VST baskets? I'm assuming you have an 18g and a 7g one?

It depends. You need to find what suits your taste. Personally, I think the pre-infusion adds very little to the overall time, as the shot will run faster after pre-infusion compared to if you didn't have it. So...

For a 14s pre infusion, your *overall *shot time should around 35s or 40s.

Now... For a dark or medium dark roast... You might be better off without pre-infusion. 🙂 - Maybe a 30s or 35s shot tops.

Is it the same for an 8g in -> 16g out shot using the appropriate basket... Great question. I think so. When I had a VST 7g back in the day, it was hard work. Try it, see how it tastes. That's the best parameter.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

So... I've been bored recently... And I've been watching the temperature display on my machine and playing with PID parameters. The point of this post is not to say what is right or what's wrong, but just means of illustration of how each of them behave. All of them were tested with the machine in Eco mode, where only the brew boiler is on. All of those were gathered by simply watching the displayed temperature at a given point in time.

The target temperature was 93C or 200F.

I have compared mainly three PID settings:

Lelit's out of the box PID settings: P=2.0, I=0.04, D=1.0 (grey)
DavecUK suggested settings: P=0.2, I=0.07, D=10 (Green)
Clive Coffee Profitec 300 settings: P=1.5, I=0.01, D=11 (The Pro-300 which has a very similar configuration to the Elizabeth). (Blue)

*Heat up times*
Every day, in the morning, I monitored the temperature when heating up the machine from cold.









*Recovery time*

Recovery after an 18g -> 36g shot over approx. 37 seconds. Timings are as soon as the shot finishes.When the shot finishes, the machine displays the shot time for approx. 20s, and then an OK message for another few seconds.

In order to have a better, more accurate results, I used the Fahrenheit scale as it's more precise. Unfortunately the Lelit does not show or allow any decimal places or at least half increments for the Celcius scale, which would've been helpful. Below is a quick conversion:

194F = 90.00C
195F = 90.55C
196F = 91.11C
197F = 91.66C
198F = 92.22C
199F = 92.77C
*200F = 93.33C*
201F = 93.88C
202F = 94.44C
203F = 95.00C
204F = 95.55C
205F = 96.11C
206F = 96.66C
207F = 97.22C








*Idling*

I also plotted a chart of the temperature over time when the machine is idling. It's not worth putting the chart here as it is nothing to look at and adds no value.

Have fun!

PS: @Paul_from_Oz - FYI.


----------



## Inspector

What settings have you decided to use in the end?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> What settings have you decided to use in the end?


 Well, defo not Lelit's! 

I've got Clive Coffee's key'd in at the moment. Not that it makes much difference, because either that one or Dave's both do a great job in terms of stability and recovery. Have a go and see if one works better than the other for you.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

When I was doing those temperature studies, I started to wonder how come I changed the brew temperature from C to F and did not notice any difference in taste? "Going mad must you be, hmmm?"

Well... In the advanced settings, the Ec settings is the "brew boiler temp offset". For instance, if that value is set to 10, it means that the temperature in the boiler is 10 degrees hotter than the group. Meaning that, when the display reads 93C, the temperature inside the boiler is therefore 103C.

So, if you go and change to display the temperature in degrees Fahrenheit, the brew temperature would display 200F. (instead of 93C). However, the offset in the advanced settings is still 10. If that "10" was related to the unit being displayed, then I would expect the temperature inside the boiler to be 210F right? (Wrong! Because that would be 99C - almost 4 degrees difference. However, nor do I notice a difference in taste nor do I see my the boiler all of a sudden working harder when I change back to C.

After some analysis and playing with wild offsets, I have concluded that the parameter Ec in advanced settings is always in degrees Celsius, irrespective of the unit your machine is displaying in the LCC.


----------



## DavecUK

@MediumRoastSteam You should have just asked


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Quick update...

these are my shower screen and dispersion plate after 4 weeks. I backflush every two weeks, so this is after backflushing today. The photos are as they came out. I didn't clean or scrub anything. Goes to show that, my cleanliness is next to godliness regime of flushing the machine for approx. 1 second and immediately wiping the shower screen with a sponge cloth afterwards is worth the while.


----------



## Del

Looks good! I'm due to clean mine tomorrow after about a month so I'll compare (though I also flush it every couple of weeks and run it for a second or 2 after pulling the shots)


----------



## Doram

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Quick update...
> 
> these are my shower screen and dispersion plate after 4 weeks. I backflush every two weeks, so this is after backflushing today. The photos are as they came out. I didn't clean or scrub anything. Goes to show that, my cleanliness is next to godliness regime of flushing the machine for approx. 1 second and immediately wiping the shower screen with a sponge cloth afterwards is worth the while.
> 
> View attachment 52160
> 
> 
> View attachment 52161


 So it's cleaning show off day today, is it? 🙂


----------



## DavecUK

@Doram



Difficulty = 9


Execution = 10


Artistic = 8


very good.


----------



## Nima

Loving my machine but the cheap steam knob bothers me. Has anyone been able to upgrade the steam knob ?


----------



## cuprajake

Some one used a knob off a stereo


----------



## Nima

Cuprajake said:


> Some one used a knob off a stereo


 Thank you for your reply. I was hoping for something nicer, possibly something from Lelit 😃


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Nima said:


> Thank you for your reply. I was hoping for something nicer, possibly something from Lelit 😃


 Nothing from Lelit. If you read up on this thread, someone replaced the steam knob with something off eBay.


----------



## DavecUK

Lelit know I personally hate the knob 😂 a satin used metal alloy would have been nice...even in a contrasting colour.


----------



## cuprajake

Exactly for a 1k machine that bloody knob is awful lol


----------



## Nima

DavecUK said:


> Lelit know I personally hate the knob 😂 a satin used metal alloy would have been nice...even in a contrasting colour.


 Maybe you can convince them to make a replacement part !


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake said:


> Exactly for a 1k machine that bloody knob is awful lol





Nima said:


> Maybe you can convince them to make a replacement part !


 Apparently it was so it matched the portafilter handle... Also distasteful in my opinion. Just the ya oldie box standard bakelite would've done the trick nicely.... For both!


----------



## eamon

I have the wooden portafilter PLA582W, would be nice to have a matching steam knob


----------



## Ando

So after a lot of deliberation, a good few hours reading various threads on this forum, Dave C's excellent reviews etc.. my shiny new Elizabeth arrived this afternoon, and I absolutely love it!

My preference had been the Minima, as I prefer the traditional look of it (the black version looks stunning), but my wife wanted the ability to just push a button on the rare occasions she makes coffees so the Elizabeth won.

I think it looks fantastic in the flesh, certainly much better than I was expecting based on photos online. And I am finding it a dream to use so far. I am not at the stage of trialling all the pre infusion stuff just yet, once I get consistent shots using standard method I will dabble with that.

Thanks to all the regulars on this thread - your comments and advice to others went a long way in helping me reach my decision.


----------



## Nima

I am not sure if this was discussed before but during the dialing in process should I add the pre-infusion time to the total desired extraction time? For example if I am shooting for 25 -30 seconds of extraction time and I have 6 seconds of pre-infusion should I aim for to 31-36 seconds ?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Nima said:


> I am not sure if this was discussed before but during the dialing in process should I add the pre-infusion time to the total desired extraction time? For example if I am shooting for 25 -30 seconds of extraction time and I have 6 seconds of pre-infusion should I aim for to 31-36 seconds ?


 Yes. Count pre-infusion in as the shot will run faster after pre-infusion anyway.


----------



## zidane72003

Really? I was targeting always for 25-27" for 1-2 ratio.

Well i had always good shots and good flavour but now will live it for the 6" of pre infusion a bit more. Will target for 30" shot hoping this would work better.

Haven't written anything on the topic, but my impression with Eli is so positive and guys (MediumRoster and Davec) are answering all the possible q.

Really fantastic VFM machine.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

zidane72003 said:


> Really  ? I was targeting always for 25-27" for 1-2 ratio.


 I don't know what type of coffee you like, whether naturals, light, or more on the dark side sort of thing... But if you like naturals or honey processed, or even just lighter roasted coffee, do try a 35s shot (with or without pre-infusion). If you notice, unlike a rotary pump equipped machine, it takes a good 10-12 seconds for any drips to come out of the bottomless PF with the Elizabeth, as the pump seems to have a very slow and steady ramp up. Common wisdom with rotary pumps is that it should take 4s.


----------



## Alfieboy

@MediumRoastSteam working my way through this great thread although it would be great to have the machine in front of me to check what is being talked about

What would be the "Essential must have accessories" for this machine?

I'm coming from PID Gaggia Classic using a bottomless portafilter with VST basket and a Mignon grinder - I've been weighing the Mignon ground coffee and timing the shot


----------



## cuprajake

Imo - good water

Key to keeping the machine in tip top condition.

Something like ro, distilled or if you have the space/money and osmio


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Uncletits said:


> @MediumRoastSteam working my way through this great thread although it would be great to have the machine in front of me to check what is being talked about
> 
> What would be the "Essential must have accessories" for this machine?
> 
> I'm coming from PID Gaggia Classic using a bottomless portafilter with VST basket and a Mignon grinder - I've been weighing the Mignon ground coffee and timing the shot


 Keep the grinder and the basket. The naked PF won't fit, as Gaggias PF have a different orientation of the lugs/ears than standard E61 PFs which are compatible with the Elizabeth. You'll also need a tamper as the machine does not come with one.


----------



## Alfieboy

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Keep the grinder and the basket. The naked PF won't fit, as Gaggias PF have a different orientation of the lugs/ears than standard E61 PFs which are compatible with the Elizabeth. You'll also need a tamper as the machine does not come with one.


 Thanks @MediumRoastSteam & @Cuprajake I ordered the naked PF too from BB with the machine

How do filter jugs rate? We're not a bad area for water and I don't have any room for RO equipment - I guess you buy bottled distilled?


----------



## cuprajake

I struggled to find a supplier for distilled water

Think the jugs aint much cop


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Uncletits said:


> Thanks @MediumRoastSteam & @Cuprajake I ordered the naked PF too from BB with the machine
> 
> How do filter jugs rate? We're not a bad area for water and I don't have any room for RO equipment - I guess you buy bottled distilled?


 You need to determine the quality of your water and evaluate whether a Brita filter is enough.

I personally use a water distiller and, very important, remineralise the water. Another popular alternative is the Osmio Zero, a counter top reverse osmosis unit.


----------



## BiggieBig

I know it's been discussed before but my steam wand starting to drip a little after just 2 months use.

but annoying as I've been conscious about not over tightening


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@BiggieBig - when does it drip? And, presumably you have not over tighten it, does the drip stop if you tighten it a bit more? Mine drips, but it only drips because It's often not closed properly because I never tighten enough.


----------



## BiggieBig

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @BiggieBig - when does it drip? And, presumably you have not over tighten it, does the drip stop if you tighten it a bit more? Mine drips, but it only drips because It's often not closed properly because I never tighten enough.


 I'll try next time but don't want to over tighten it.

it starts to drip as soon as switch the machine on now. My Lelit Anita was exactly the same so guess you just get use to it.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

BiggieBig said:


> I'll try next time but don't want to over tighten it.
> 
> it starts to drip as soon as switch the machine on now. My Lelit Anita was exactly the same so guess you just get use to it.


 Weird. I only turn the knob until my fingers slip on it, holding it very lightly. I often find he machine making noises when I leave it on for my next milk drink, just to find I didn't tighten it enough to shut the valve.


----------



## Flamingo

Any suggestions for a matching bottomless portafilter?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Flamingo said:


> Any suggestions for a matching bottomless portafilter?


 I've seen it. But why would you?


----------



## Flamingo

I want to buy a bottomless portafilter for the Elizabeth and want it to match if possible so checking if anyone has suggestions.

I really like wooden handle ones but don't think it will look any good!



MediumRoastSteam said:


> I've seen it. But why would you?


----------



## eamon

i believe the VIP line bottomless is PLA580V and the wooden one is PLA580W.

https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/en/portafiltri-beccucci-lelit.html


----------



## Inspector

Dark brown wooden handle goes well with brown plastic knob and brown gasket on top of the machine 😁


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Flamingo said:


> I want to buy a bottomless portafilter for the Elizabeth and want it to match if possible so checking if anyone has suggestions.
> 
> I really like wooden handle ones but don't think it will look any good!


 I can't remember where I've seen it, whether it was on Amazon or elsewhere. Try Amazon, you can get official Lelit stuff there.


----------



## Nima

Another rookie question : Does anyone know if the pump ramps up after the first use of the machine in the morning ? My second shot of the morning ( maybe 2 minutes later ) is always faster. Nothing is changed between the shots. I use Eureka Specialita which is supposedly a low retention grinder. Anyone has experienced this ?


----------



## Zoltan

Good morning everyone,

I've just received my Elizabeth few days ago (after deciding I don't need espresso machine and sold my Mara X in December... 🤔 ) and I like it but there is one weird thing straight:

I switch on the machine and pull my first shot with the second (steam?) preinfusion button when it says 95° OK (didn't change any factory settings yet) It normally takes few minutes only.

The weird thing is the first shot (~17in 34out ~35s) is warm only. I mean not even hot. Warm like I'd left it for 10 mins on the table. But it's straight after pulling it. Also much less crema. If I pull a second one in few minutes it is hot as it should be and has much more crema.

Is it possible that the steam boiler isn't hot enough or the machine isn't really ready for the first shot even when it says OK?

Also would you recommend Mignon Specialita for this machine? Yes, I also sold my Niche with Mara X and now it's not really possible to get a new one so I use my Sage Smart Pro (what I usually use for V60)

Thank You 

(I read this topic and haven't seen any of this issue but I could be word blind 😯 )


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Zoltan said:


> I switch on the machine and pull my first shot with the second (steam?) preinfusion button when it says 95° OK (didn't change any factory settings yet) It normally takes few minutes only.


 I don't think you understand how the machine works by what I'm reading here, in all honesty. The buttons don't perform specific functions. They are presets for shot time snd pre-infusion time (but not the pre-infusion type)

on the first post of this thread there's a link to DavecUK's review. I'd strongly recommend you watch, rewatch and read and re-read. Also do read the advanced settings part, don't change the PID parameters if you don't want to, but some of the settings there such as "displaying actual temperature" are essential for you to know what goes on.

please report back.

edit: oh... welcome to the club. 👍


----------



## Inspector

Nima said:


> Another rookie question : Does anyone know if the pump ramps up after the first use of the machine in the morning ? My second shot of the morning ( maybe 2 minutes later ) is always faster. Nothing is changed between the shots. I use Eureka Specialita which is supposedly a low retention grinder. Anyone has experienced this ?


 Before pulling a shot in the morning, do a quick flush to fill the chamber. Like a second or two.


----------



## Zoltan

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I don't think you understand how the machine works by what I'm reading here, in all honesty. The buttons don't perform specific functions. They are presets for shot time snd pre-infusion time (but not the pre-infusion type)
> 
> on the first post of this thread there's a link to DavecUK's review. I'd strongly recommend you watch, rewatch and read and re-read. Also do read the advanced settings part, don't change the PID parameters if you don't want to, but some of the settings there such as "displaying actual temperature" are essential for you to know what goes on.
> 
> please report back.
> 
> edit: oh... welcome to the club. 👍


 You're right I don't really understand it yet 😁

Of course I do and will read/watch that review and the manual too because I want to change settings but had no time to do it yet.

Settings: I thought there are already some factory settings for the two buttons as they act differently straight out of the box. Then I guess they do some changes at Bella Barista when checked the machine.

Do you say that I'll find the solution of the only warm first shot if I re-read/re-watch Dave's review? I do it hundred times I'm sure as I did previously with Mara X as he has deffo useful articles.

"edit: oh... welcome to the club. 👍" - Thank You and I knew it will be different compare to Mara but still looks magic for me. Never been good with smart devices 😁


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Zoltan said:


> You're right I don't really understand it yet 😁
> 
> Of course I do and will read/watch that review and the manual too because I want to change settings but had no time to do it yet.
> 
> Settings: I thought there are already some factory settings for the two buttons as they act differently straight out of the box. Then I guess they do some changes at Bella Barista when checked the machine.
> 
> Do you say that I'll find the solution of the only warm first shot if I re-read/re-watch Dave's review? I do it hundred times I'm sure as I did previously with Mara X as he has deffo useful articles.
> 
> "edit: oh... welcome to the club. 👍" - Thank You and I knew it will be different compare to Mara but still looks magic for me. Never been good with smart devices 😁


 Personally... I think the machine is not hot enough. If you at least change the setting which displays the actual temperature, you'll see how the machine behaves for real. It's a really silly setting which comes out from the factory to display the target temperature.

Also, the machine needs to heat up for 18 minutes, and the portafilter MUST BE hot, in synch with the group (i.e.: leave the portafilter lovely engaged during warm up).

I think that's the basic. But the review from Dave is instrumental in understanding this machine.


----------



## Inspector

Anyone else having a loud buzzing noise time to time and it disappears when I push the case or move it a little. I think pump is touching case I might just open it and see. It's not solenoid or sth else related. Just pump is being so close or touching I guess.

It comes and goes when I press on the panel where VIP is written


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> Anyone else having a loud buzzing noise time to time and it disappears when I push the case or move it a little. I think pump is touching case I might just open it and see. It's not solenoid or sth else related. Just pump is being so close or touching I guess.
> 
> It comes and goes when I press on the panel where VIP is written


 The pump is on the opposite side. Are you sure it's just not rattling of the drip tray or the grate on top?


----------



## Zoltan

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Also, the machine needs to heat up for 18 minutes, and the portafilter MUST BE hot, in synch with the group (i.e.: leave the portafilter lovely engaged during warm up).


 18 mins? That could be the reason. Now I feel silly... It always happens after 5-6 mins when says 'OK'. I trust the display too much even if I knew maybe more time needed. Using the machine too early in the morning  But it's a new system for me and they said it's quick. Actually it is, but the first one isn't hot enough.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Zoltan said:


> 18 mins? That could be the reason. Now I feel silly... It always happens after 5-6 mins when says 'OK'. I trust the display too much even if I knew maybe more time needed. Using the machine too early in the morning  But it's a new system for me and they said it's quick. Actually it is, but the first one isn't hot enough.


 Yeah. If you read Dave's review, and I quote:



> It uses Lelit's special techniques for Elizabeth to be ready to use in just 16 or 17 minutes from switching on.


 So, I re-iterate: The best thing you can do is to spend some time and read all the three review documents Dave carefully wrote. You'd have saved a lot of time, less disappointments and most of the questions you have will be answered there.

The documents are, namely: "The Lelit Elizabeth Review", "LCC Quick Reference Guide" and "Maintenance and Pro Tips".

Have fun! 👍


----------



## profesor_historia

Zoltan said:


> 18 mins? That could be the reason. Now I feel silly... It always happens after 5-6 mins when says 'OK'. I trust the display too much even if I knew maybe more time needed. Using the machine too early in the morning  But it's a new system for me and they said it's quick. Actually it is, but the first one isn't hot enough.


My Rancilio Silvia Pro reaches 94°C in about 5 minutes but I don't pull the shot, always leave it minimum 35-40 minutes. Elizabeth is quicker but give her at least 20 minutes.


----------



## Inspector

MediumRoastSteam said:


> The pump is on the opposite side. Are you sure it's just not rattling of the drip tray or the grate on top?


 No not the grill definitely it does it without drip tray even. I might make a video today if it buzzes again


----------



## Nima

Inspector said:


> Before pulling a shot in the morning, do a quick flush to fill the chamber. Like a second or two.


 Thank you ! This fixed the issue


----------



## Zoltan

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Yeah. If you read Dave's review, and I quote:
> 
> So, I re-iterate: The best thing you can do is to spend some time and read all the three review documents Dave carefully wrote. You'd have saved a lot of time, less disappointments and most of the questions you have will be answered there.
> 
> The documents are, namely: "The Lelit Elizabeth Review", "LCC Quick Reference Guide" and "Maintenance and Pro Tips".
> 
> Have fun! 👍


 Thank You again. A watched these but tbh I didn't know that time that I am going to buy the machine. I thought I remember what I read and watched. Looks like not 😁

There are no disappointments, I knew it must be myself and I definitely remember 4-5 minutes warning up time. Anyway. Lucky there are very friendly and helpful people here and we can ask and these people can tell off us very politely 😁😁


----------



## Zoltan

profesor_historia said:


> Zoltan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 18 mins? That could be the reason. Now I feel silly... It always happens after 5-6 mins when says 'OK'. I trust the display too much even if I knew maybe more time needed. Using the machine too early in the morning    But it's a new system for me and they said it's quick. Actually it is, but the first one isn't hot enough.
> 
> 
> 
> My Rancilio Silvia Pro reaches 94°C in about 5 minutes but I don't pull the shot, always leave it minimum 35-40 minutes. Elizabeth is quicker but give her at least 20 minutes.
Click to expand...

 Yes I realized my mistake and I will do this next time


----------



## Nima

Inspector said:


> Anyone else having a loud buzzing noise time to time and it disappears when I push the case or move it a little. I think pump is touching case I might just open it and see. It's not solenoid or sth else related. Just pump is being so close or touching I guess.
> 
> It comes and goes when I press on the panel where VIP is written


 I had this issue. I thought maybe a small particle was stuck somewhere so I back flushed it multiple times with the cleaner and it went away.


----------



## Inspector

Ok here is the video.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WrNVn7JeKPCOG8KSDQxYfu_fzY_SDYUw/view?usp=drivesdk


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Inspector - I see what you mean now. How weird? Maybe one for @DavecUK


----------



## Inspector

I believe I solved the issue by tightening the screws on each side.

I still get occasional buzzing noise if I hold the top front corners of the case and try to twist whole machine left or right but why would I do it in normal use 😃


----------



## 27852

I joined Team Elizabeth today. The insight and information within this thread is phenomenal and was a huge factor when weighing up machine choices (it was between an Elizabeth or a Minima). Looking forward to enjoying better coffee!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Kjk said:


> it was between an Elizabeth or a Minima)


 Hang on... And you chose the Elizabeth? 😂 - Only joking! Welcome to the club!

Edit: Actually, it's a valid point. What made you go for the Elizabeth over the Minima? I know a few people who deliberated the same question and went for the Minima, so would love to know your rationale.


----------



## cuprajake

I think there so close its hard to choose, i struggled for ages


----------



## 27852

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Hang on... And you chose the Elizabeth? 😂 - Only joking! Welcome to the club!
> 
> Edit: Actually, it's a valid point. What made you go for the Elizabeth over the Minima? I know a few people who deliberated the same question and went for the Minima, so would love to know your rationale.


 There isn't much between them but a few things swayed me towards the Elizabeth:

1) Cost: if I were to get the Minima I'd want it in black so that's nearly £1,500. For about the same amount I got this machine, upgraded kit, and an Osmio Zero unit.

2) Preinfusion: playing around with LCC parameters seems interesting as well as offering some consistency from shot to shot.

3) Accessibility: I see my wife learning how to pull shots on the Elizabeth with simple instructions (grind coffee and press button 1). Silly as it sounds I think my wife would get confused with the Minima (cue arguments over the on/off vs brew switch).

4) Finishing: a special mention goes to @Cuprajakeand his video walkthrough. Those little snags he points out would drive me nuts after putting up that much money on a machine. Some may not like the looks but I think the Elizabeth is very nicely designed and well finished.

Also, my use case doesn't demand a big double boiler. I will make max 6 drinks a day and never more than 2 in a row. I think I'd struggle to cycle the water fast enough through the Minima.


----------



## Alfieboy

Well there's a massive box in my lounge!


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

Uncletits said:


> Well there's a massive box in my lounge!


 Hopefully, that box is opened by now?


----------



## Alfieboy

Paul_from_Oz said:


> Hopefully, that box is opened by now?


 We're moving stuff around including (Classics yes plural) so although I've had a peek I'm also not using it until we sort good water and I've watched @DavecUKvideos again

Great Service from Bella Barista

Where are you in Oz?


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

Uncletits said:


> We're moving stuff around including (Classics yes plural) so although I've had a peek I'm also not using it until we sort good water and I've watched @DavecUKvideos again
> 
> Great Service from Bella Barista
> 
> Where are you in Oz?


 I'm in Brisbane.


----------



## Alfieboy

Paul_from_Oz said:


> I'm in Brisbane.


 I lived in Sydney for 9 years but now back in Blighty


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

Uncletits said:


> I lived in Sydney for 9 years but now back in Blighty


 Ever get up this way? Have to say I'm a bit envious of Northern Hemisphere winters...


----------



## BiggieBig

My steam wand has started to get super hot. 
I took the end out and purged a couple of times. Seem to cool it.

but issue is still there super hot especially after steaming


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@BiggieBig - if you touch it - is it like impossible or can you still touch it? 
basicslly there's a teflon tube inside it, and the steam runs inside that. It's normal for it to get hot, but not so hot that it's impossible to touch it - unless steam is leaking from the inner teflon tube.


----------



## BiggieBig

Yeah it's more like impossible to touch 😞

actually almost burnt my hand


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

The teflon must have got disconnected from the top then. You could undo it to check it over, or contact the retailer.


----------



## simplyme

What pre infusion times does every one have set?

Ive not tried them yet but plan on doing so today, Dave recommends BLS=3 and BLP=5 in advanced settings. What do you run the seconds as in the standard menu?


----------



## Inspector

BiggieBig said:


> My steam wand has started to get super hot.
> I took the end out and purged a couple of times. Seem to cool it.
> 
> but issue is still there super hot especially after steaming


 Same here. I thought that was normal 🤔


----------



## 27852

simplyme said:


> What pre infusion times does every one have set?
> 
> Ive not tried them yet but plan on doing so today, Dave recommends BLS=3 and BLP=5 in advanced settings. What do you run the seconds as in the standard menu?


 I've been keeping open notes of my experimentation with PI Here. This morning a pulled a shot with 6s initial pump run and 16s total PI under 2bar. It ran just as long as 4s initial / 12s total PI. Wasn't really able to tell a difference between the two. I think the key is being able to see coffee covering the bottom of the filter before the PI is complete - that way you know you've got a water saturated puck before the pressure ramps up.


----------



## Inspector

simplyme said:


> What pre infusion times does every one have set?
> 
> Ive not tried them yet but plan on doing so today, Dave recommends BLS=3 and BLP=5 in advanced settings. What do you run the seconds as in the standard menu?


 If my BLP less than 6-7 seconds in the beginning, pressure doesn't reach to 8, depends on the coffee dose I think.


----------



## 27852

Inspector said:


> If my BLP less than 6-7 seconds in the beginning, pressure doesn't reach to 8, depends on the coffee dose I think.


 Do you mean for the entire shot or for the PI? I think the point of the preinfusion is that you saturate the puck with water before you ramp up to full pressure so you wouldn't want to see 9bar during the initial pump run.

The writer of This article seems to advocate for pressurised pre-infusion vs pre-wetting. I think his point is that under bloom PI you don't know if the puck is adequately wet before you ramp up to extraction pressure, but you can pretty easily tell under 2bar (drops will form/fall during the PI) with the visual cue of coffee covering the entire bottom of the filter.


----------



## Inspector

Not for the entire shot. Initial pump run for 6 seconds so pressure builds up to just below 8 or so, then another 6 seconds for bloom. Pressure gradually drops to about 4 bar at the end of bloom phase then when the pump kicks in it goes back to 9.5bar for the rest of the shot. Same as in this video minute 2:45 afterwards.


----------



## simplyme

I've just knocked out 18in 38 out in 40 secs using the LSOL offering this month, bloom infusion (6 BLP and 8 secs on button 2) for 14 second pre infusion total and this bean certainly benefits from this rather that steam, it is singing! Not sure I will be sleeping tonight if I have another haha


----------



## cuprajake

That's the only thing i miss going for the minima, the option to pre infuse.


----------



## HaggisMoose

simplyme said:


> I've just knocked out 18in 38 out in 40 secs using the LSOL offering this month, bloom infusion (6 BLP and 8 secs on button 2) for 14 second pre infusion total and this bean certainly benefits from this rather that steam, it is singing! Not sure I will be sleeping tonight if I have another haha


 Sleep is overrated. Have another espresso!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake said:


> That's the only thing i miss going for the minima, the option to pre infuse.


 You can always add the flow valve!


----------



## cuprajake

@MediumRoastSteam yeah i know, but the llc would be better controlled

Im looking at control valves, i dont like the big blocky wooden valve of the lelit. But atm its the only one known for sure to work on the minima.

Ive not done enough research yet but from @DavecUK vids you have to ramp up to full pressure then adjust down? Id like to know if you could hold it at say 2bar then just open to 6bar and pull the shot that way.

Shame i didnt have 2k for a Vesuvius 😂😂😂


----------



## DavecUK

Cuprajake said:


> @MediumRoastSteam yeah i know, but the llc would be better controlled
> 
> Im looking at control valves, i dont like the big blocky wooden valve of the lelit. But atm its the only one known for sure to work on the minima.
> 
> Ive not done enough research yet but from @DavecUK vids you have to ramp up to full pressure then adjust down? Id like to know if you could hold it at say 2bar then just open to 6bar and pull the shot that way.
> 
> Shame i didnt have 2k for a Vesuvius 😂😂😂


 Yes, you can hold it at 2 bar, then open to 6. It's tricky because you have to close the valve completely at 2 bar and if the puck is permeable...which it needs to be, open it slightly and watch the pressure rise, then close again as it will rise fast (incompressibility of water.

I would actually say don't bother...the minima can produce a great shot without it and I was playing with a prototype device with a control panel, very big (prototype), where there are other ways of achieving it.


----------



## cuprajake

Yeah thats why ive not bought one yet, not repeatable. That was my trade off between the minima and Elizabeth.


----------



## 27852

simplyme said:


> I've just knocked out 18in 38 out in 40 secs using the LSOL offering this month, bloom infusion (6 BLP and 8 secs on button 2) for 14 second pre infusion total and this bean certainly benefits from this rather that steam, it is singing! Not sure I will be sleeping tonight if I have another haha


 Interesting, what differences in results do you see between steam and bloom?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake said:


> Yeah thats why ive not bought one yet, not repeatable. That was my trade off between the minima and Elizabeth.


 The grass is always greener... 😉


----------



## cuprajake

@MediumRoastSteam just always been curious of the whole pressure profile thing, when i was looking at the londinum etc where the pressure tails off.

In an ideal world i suppose something like the decent would be ideal. Sadly im no bill gates


----------



## simplyme

Kjk said:


> Interesting, what differences in results do you see between steam and bloom?


 Everybody has a different palate but for me it was slightly less acidic and the flavour was more fruity, not by miles obviously 😀


----------



## Baffo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> The grass is always greener... 😉


 I think people should say

Coffee is always browner...

Or even

Coffee has always more crema..


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

BiggieBig said:


> Yeah it's more like impossible to touch 😞
> 
> actually almost burnt my hand


 Just wondering if you managed to get to the bottom of this?


----------



## 27852

Baffo said:


> I think people should say
> 
> Coffee is always browner...
> 
> Or even
> 
> Coffee has always more crema..


 Too generic - we need to make this inaccessible!

"someone else's bean always has a higher cup score"

"there is always a more optimal water"


----------



## BiggieBig

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Just wondering if you managed to get to the bottom of this?


 Ahh sorry about not updating.

it's a strange one intermittent happened a few times. But seems ok recently. Will keep an eye on it and if it persists may open it up to check all is ok.


----------



## Blues

Hi guys,

I'm happy owner of Elizabeth but last week my 2 months machine started to make weird noise and I had to send it to service. Diagnosis- 3 way solenoid valve. I'm still waiting for service to send it back. Meanwhile I have to drink coffee ☕ ( I'm not sure if it can be called coffee ) form McDonald.


----------



## DavecUK

Blues said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm happy owner of Elizabeth but last week my 2 months machine started to make weird noise and I had to send it to service. Diagnosis- 3 way solenoid valve. I'm still waiting for service to send it back. Meanwhile I have to drink coffee ☕ ( I'm not sure if it can be called coffee ) form McDonald.


 probably a bit of something stuck at the bottom of the moving metal slug that seals and unseals the valve. When the coil pulls in, it can't quite get to the bottom and the spring vs magnetic force makes it buzz.


----------



## Doram

How come *your* machine doesn't do that? 😉

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/lt18cl/let_there_be_light/


----------



## 27852

Doram said:


> How come *your* machine doesn't do that? 😉
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/lt18cl/let_there_be_light/


 Because I'm not cool enough


----------



## 27852

Gicar strikes again... make sure you push both those buttons down, all I wanted to do was change preinfusion pump run.

Tasting note: very well extracted, albeit a little weak. May grind slightly finer.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Kjk said:


> Gicar strikes again... make sure you push both those buttons down, all I wanted to do was change preinfusion pump run.


 Baptism of fire. It happens to us all. You'll only do it once (twice maybe). 😂


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Baptism of fire. It happens to us all. You'll only do it once (twice maybe). 😂


 With various machines over the years, I have cursed Gicar many times.


----------



## 27852

DavecUK said:


> With various machines over the years, I have cursed Gicar many times.


 So... grind finer?!


----------



## DavecUK

Kjk said:


> So... grind finer?!


 no, Gicars stupid system on a soft touch panel (well any panel really)



press the right hand button and power on = Factory reset


press both buttons in and power on = advanced settings


How did no one at Gicar see this as a potential problem, and I've been banging on about it for almost 15 years. Gicar seem to be a law unto themselves though.

How it should work (only here for Gicars benefit):



press the right hand button and power on = advanced settings


press both buttons in and power on = Factory reset


----------



## 27852

DavecUK said:


> no, Gicars stupid system on a soft touch panel (well any panel really)
> 
> 
> 
> press the right hand button and power on = Factory reset
> 
> 
> press both buttons in and power on = advanced settings
> 
> 
> How did no one at Gicar see this as a potential problem, and I've been banging on about it for almost 15 years. Gicar seem to be a law unto themselves though.
> 
> How it should work (only here for Gicars benefit):
> 
> 
> 
> press the right hand button and power on = advanced settings
> 
> 
> press both buttons in and power on = Factory reset


 I think I had both down and released them before the boot screen switched over so thought it was due to releasing them too soon (could just be making it up too).

Thanks for the explanation, your PID instructions are my reference document so that was called up as soon as it said "Factory OK". It was supposed to be a quick tweak!


----------



## Zoltan

Doram said:


> How come *your* machine doesn't do that? 😉
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/lt18cl/let_there_be_light/


 Same here, another Elizabeth with leds 😁


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Zoltan - did you connect them to the machine's own supply or external?


----------



## Zoltan

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Zoltan - did you connect them to the machine's own supply or external?


 External. I'm not a great handyman. It's just attached to the machine and to the plug. So individual switchable, useful when dark in the kitchen


----------



## RobDGio

Think I'm going to have to copy this. Looks great 👍


----------



## Zoltan

RobDGio said:


> Think I'm going to have to copy this. Looks great 👍


 I bought this from Amazon, length is perfect for Elizabeth.

Sticked to the bottom of the top area and on the side.


----------



## RobDGio

@Zoltan

thanks for the idea, love the look


----------



## Ando

RobDGio said:


> @Zoltan
> 
> thanks for the idea, love the look
> 
> View attachment 54051
> 
> 
> View attachment 54052


 That looks great. Where did you get your shot mirror from?


----------



## RobDGio

@Ando

mirror

Round Circular Mirror Disc 25 SIZES TO CHOOSE - Silver Circular Acrylic Mirror Round Wall Safety Wedding Table Centre Stand Mirror (65mm) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00PQN0FPG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_N3E0ZQGASFN9VS1TG7ZC?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

phone mount for car

Mpow Upgraded Magnetic Car Phone Holder,Dashboard Car Phone Mount,Mini Magnetic Stylish Metal Phone Holder for iPhone https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08FBVCFF1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_XPAXJ4GX3Y7F3F2WXS7W?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Ando

@RobDGioFantastic, thanks for the links.


----------



## Zoltan

RobDGio said:


> @Zoltan
> 
> thanks for the idea, love the look
> 
> View attachment 54051
> 
> 
> View attachment 54052


 To be honest it's not my idea, I'm a copycat 😁 Saw it before on the forum. I was looking for a light as my kitchen is dark in the morning (my light is ridiculous slow after switching on) and found this as a unique solution


----------



## Maximum_RnB

Hey guys - been following this great thread since buying a Lelit Elizabeth in September (upgrade from a Sage Oracle). Thanks for all the great advice/tips.

All good with it so far, except...does anyone have an issue with the water tank getting a bit funky?

I have installed the Lelit filter (and changed it within the prescribed time) and also use Brita-filtered water in the tank. But I noticed that the water in the tank had a bit of a musty smell a couple of months ago, so I pulled it out and washed & sterilised it.

But, again this morning, I've noticed the same thing. Again, I've washed it out but this time I pulled the water right through the boiler until it ran clear and tasted OK from the hot water spout.

I'm wondering if by filtering the water before filling the tank I might be pulling out the stuff that keeps the water from getting a bit manky. I never had this issue with the Sage.

Also, I'm only pulling a couple of shots every day so maybe I shouldn't keep the tank topped-up completely?

Any thoughts?


----------



## Maximum_RnB

Maybe I should add that I live in South Wales and the tap water is pretty good. The hardness is under 100ppm and, after going through a new Brita filter, it's under 25ppm.

It also tastes quite reasonable - not too chlorinated and no other noticeable taste that I'm aware of.


----------



## Nleng

I've only had my Elizabeth for a couple of months now but I've never had an issue with the water tank.

I do clean it out (rinse with soapy water) every couple of weeks. I also go through a reasonable amount of water so it's never sat for very long in the tank.

I'd recommend stepping up how often you clean it. Leaving it a couple of months, or waiting for a smell to develop, before cleaning is the likely culprit.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Maximum_RnB - Had my Elizabeth since July last year. I use exclusively distilled water, remineralised, and never had an issue with the water smelling musty. I go through a tank of water every 6 days or so.


----------



## Maximum_RnB

Thanks fellas.

I'm now well and truly down the rabbit-hole of water filtering/purification and am currently on page 5 of Dave's Osmio Zero review so fully anticipate spending another £400 on my coffee habit next week 🤑


----------



## Inspector

Maximum_RnB said:


> Thanks fellas.
> 
> I'm now well and truly down the rabbit-hole of water filtering/purification and am currently on page 5 of Dave's Osmio Zero review so fully anticipate spending another £400 on my coffee habit next week 🤑


 If you decide to go ahead don't forget forum discount.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/57514-new-osmio-water-exclusive-coffee-forum-member-offers/?tab=comments#comment-811261


----------



## L2en

Maximum_RnB said:


> Thanks fellas.
> 
> I'm now well and truly down the rabbit-hole of water filtering/purification and am currently on page 5 of Dave's Osmio Zero review so fully anticipate spending another £400 on my coffee habit next week 🤑


 I have done it ten days ago and I'm really happy with Osmio. Cannot drink much coffee at the moment due to health reasons, but the taste is much improved in my morning americano as well as all the tea and water consumed throughout the rest of the day. Great addition to any kitchen (especially with disgusting north London water).

I clean the water tank with Milton every two weeks.


----------



## 27852

Maximum_RnB said:


> Thanks fellas.
> 
> I'm now well and truly down the rabbit-hole of water filtering/purification and am currently on page 5 of Dave's Osmio Zero review so fully anticipate spending another £400 on my coffee habit next week 🤑


 You didn't buy the bianca so there are some rationalisation £s to spend...


----------



## Maximum_RnB

Kjk said:


> You didn't buy the bianca so there are some rationalisation £s to spend...


 LOL, true. But I did buy a Niche Zero around the same time.

And I have other expensive fads to funds...


----------



## 27852

Maximum_RnB said:


> LOL, true. But I did buy a Niche Zero around the same time.
> 
> And I have other expensive fads to funds...


 Focus, you are making money on this deal!


----------



## Bainbridge

Just joined the Elizabeth owners club - moving from a Rocket HX.

Feels like a massive jump forward in tech, and it's so compact. Just getting to grips with the preinfusion options.

Main issue I've had so far is a sticking puck and actually the steaming does seem to be less powerful than the Rocket. Still very adequate but just takes a bit longer to get the milk up to temp.


----------



## 27852

Bainbridge said:


> Just joined the Elizabeth owners club - moving from a Rocket HX.
> 
> Feels like a massive jump forward in tech, and it's so compact. Just getting to grips with the preinfusion options.
> 
> Main issue I've had so far is a sticking puck and actually the steaming does seem to be less powerful than the Rocket. Still very adequate but just takes a bit longer to get the milk up to temp.
> 
> View attachment 54598


 Welcome to the club. We will have very similar set ups when my niche comes next month!

Try upping the temp on the steam boiler which results in higher pressure, I think it is 135c shipped but you can take it up to 140 (I found that too strong so settled on 137).

It is worth setting your PID parameters while you're at it - @DavecUK's Guide is an excellent starting point.


----------



## Bainbridge

Kjk said:


> Welcome to the club. We will have very similar set ups when my niche comes next month!
> 
> Try upping the temp on the steam boiler which results in higher pressure, I think it is 135c shipped but you can take it up to 140 (I found that too strong so settled on 137).
> 
> It is worth setting your PID parameters while you're at it - @DavecUK's Guide is an excellent starting point.


 Thanks, yeah just getting to grips with it.

Just used the bloom preinfusion with a Brazilian natural process from Dog and Hat. It gave me probably the best espresso I've made at home. That's about 15 years and counting! 6 second pump on and 12 second overall preinfusion. A little bit of bitterness came through at the end so I need to tweak it a bit still, but the bar is set.


----------



## Inspector

My osmio gives around 20ppm TDS I add bicarbonate of soda to bring it up to 100ppm to feed Lelit. Today I replaced the water in steam boiler via getting water out from hot water tap fully twice and first draw cooled down result was 125ppm tds from boiler. And it tasted same as from osmio (like no weird taste or smell)maybe even slightly sweeter. Haven't done this before. Is that normal/acceptable result?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> My osmio gives around 20ppm TDS I add bicarbonate of soda to bring it up to 100ppm to feed Lelit. Today I replaced the water in steam boiler via getting water out from hot water tap fully twice and first draw cooled down result was 125ppm tds from boiler. And it tasted same as from osmio (like no weird taste or smell)maybe even slightly sweeter. Haven't done this before. Is that normal/acceptable result?


 When you did that, did you notice the auto fill of the steam boiler afterwards? I.e: once it stopped dispensing water through the tap, did the pump run constantly for about 45 seconds to refil the boiler? Did you notice that?

And when you did it twice, did you wait for the steam boiler to get back to temp to draw it again?

125ppm seems low from my experience, too low given your TDS is already 100ppm in the tank.

Let me know the answer to those questions please. I'm quite interested on this.


----------



## Inspector

MediumRoastSteam said:


> When you did that, did you notice the auto fill of the steam boiler afterwards? I.e: once it stopped dispensing water through the tap, did the pump run constantly for about 45 seconds to refil the boiler? Did you notice that?
> 
> And when you did it twice, did you wait for the steam boiler to get back to temp to draw it again?
> 
> 125ppm seems low from my experience, too low given your TDS is already 100ppm in the tank.
> 
> Let me know the answer to those questions please. I'm quite interested on this.


 Yes when it stopped it refilled about 45 seconds, and at first I didn't wait steam boiler to come up to temperature, I tried to draw water but I realized it was coming from brew boiler at that time, then I waited steam boiler to come up to temp and then draw fully again. Maybe the reason I use hot water tap from machine sometimes to make americanos. Half of the time from brew boiler (as machine was in eco mode) half of the time when steam was on.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> Yes when it stopped it refilled about 45 seconds, and at first I didn't wait steam boiler to come up to temperature, I tried to draw water but I realized it was coming from brew boiler at that time, then I waited steam boiler to come up to temp and then draw fully again. Maybe the reason I use hot water tap from machine sometimes to make americanos. Half of the time from brew boiler (as machine was in eco mode) half of the time when steam was on.


 Ha! Good stuff. Perfect! Looks like you are on the ball then. 👍

ps: do you have EVS set to 0 or 1?


----------



## Inspector

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Ha! Good stuff. Perfect! Looks like you are on the ball then. 👍
> 
> ps: do you have EVS set to 0 or 1?


 I keep Evs set to 0. I don't do steam pre infusion only bloom pre infusion


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Inspector said:


> I keep Evs set to 0. I don't do steam pre infusion only bloom pre infusion


 I was wondering whether that had an effect in draining the boiler. Which you confirmed it did not.


----------



## Zoltan

Good afternoon,

Did anyone change the screen shower yet or doesn't really matter using the original one or a new IMS for example?

Also did you ever try to use it with an external water tank or do you always fill it up? My Elizabeth just fit under the cupboard and need to pull it out and push it back when the tank is empty. I thought I maybe could use an external one what is standing next to the machine and easy to refill.


----------



## eamon

Zoltan said:


> Good afternoon,
> 
> Did anyone change the screen shower yet or doesn't really matter using the original one or a new IMS for example?
> 
> Also did you ever try to use it with an external water tank or do you always fill it up? My Elizabeth just fit under the cupboard and need to pull it out and push it back when the tank is empty. I thought I maybe could use an external one what is standing next to the machine and easy to refill.


 My guess is that an external water tank won't work; The machine has a low water level alarm, which is probably activated by the magnetic sensor in the tank.


----------



## Inspector

If you keep the original tank quarter or so full in the machine and keep an eye on the external one and keep it topped up all the time(well, most of the time 😀), I don't see why not. Obviously metal lid won't close properly as pipes would be hanging out from side.


----------



## Bainbridge

Since getting the Elizabeth last week I gently mentioned to my wife how simple it was to use.

Today she asked if I could show her how to make a latte - by the end of the evening she made one without supervision and it was great - even the milk.

Such a refreshing change from the E61 HX I had before!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Zoltan said:


> Did anyone change the screen shower yet or doesn't really matter using the original one or a new IMS for example?


 I have. Ended up reverting back to the stock one. I didn't like the IMS CI200IM screen.



Zoltan said:


> an external water tank


 There's no reason why you can't try it out. The machine has a presence sensor for the tank, and a float sensor on the side of the tank.

As long as you keep the float floating, there's no reason why you couldn't drop the hose into a bottle of water. Just mind the return from the OPV hose (the shorter one). If you leave inside the tank, it will overflow eventually. So best if both hoses are into the water source.


----------



## 27852

I noticed during yesterday's "cleanliness is next to godliness" routine that my OPV is running at 9bar. I remember the first couple of times I backflushed it was reaching 11.5bar. Does anyone know why? Is it just a matter of the OPV getting 'broken in'?


----------



## RobDGio

i've noticed a few times that on first power up in the morning (in economy mode) the brew boiler can overheat above target temp. i've noticed it seems to coincide with when the water tank is running low on water but not low enough for the low water alarm (maybe 1/3 or 1/4 left in it). This usually resolves either with a flush of the group or the hot water tap (would this be pretty much the same process when steam boiler is off anyway??) as this drops the temp then it seems to stabilise following this. Just wondering if this is normal, as it doesn't bother me, but want to make sure its not a fault?

any advice would be great

Thanks


----------



## Bainbridge

Has anyone considered putting the Elizabeth on some taller feet? I sometimes spill some water when removing the drip tray (usually when I've left it too long so it's overfull). This would be easier to clean if the based was raised.

Is there any reason why that would be a bad idea?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

RobDGio said:


> i've noticed a few times that on first power up in the morning (in economy mode) the brew boiler can overheat above target temp.


 You do realise the machine, from cold, first heats up to approx. 120C (on the display) and then cools down to the set temperature? - This is irrespective of whether the tank is full or not.

Is this what you are referring to? If so, there's nothing wrong.

Did you read DavecUK's review? link on first post in this thread. If you haven't, make sure you read that thoroughly and use the recommended settings for the PID, specially with regards to showing the actual temperature rather than the set temperature.

If you've done all of the above and it's something completely different, a video or something like that would be great.


----------



## 27852

MediumRoastSteam said:


> You do realise the machine, from cold, first heats up to approx. 120C (on the display) and then cools down to the set temperature? - This is irrespective of whether the tank is full or not.
> 
> Is this what you are referring to? If so, there's nothing wrong.
> 
> Did you read DavecUK's review? link on first post in this thread. If you haven't, make sure you read that thoroughly and use the recommended settings for the PID, specially with regards to showing the actual temperature rather than the set temperature.
> 
> If you've done all of the above and it's something completely different, a video or something like that would be great.


 Mine does it too, but I only notice it on the weekend. On weekdays the timer switches the machine on 30mins before I want to use it.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Kjk said:


> On weekdays the timer switches the machine on 30mins before I want to use it.


 The machine is ready to roll in 17 minutes (20 max). I go downstairs, turn it on, make breakfast, and by the time I'm ready to make my coffee, it's fully warmed up.

I used to do that with my Pro-700 (E61). One of the reasons I chose the Elizabeth over others. 🙂


----------



## 27852

MediumRoastSteam said:


> The machine is ready to roll in 17 minutes (20 max). I go downstairs, turn it on, make breakfast, and by the time I'm ready to make my coffee, it's fully warmed up.
> 
> I used to do that with my Pro-700 (E61). One of the reasons I chose the Elizabeth over others. 🙂


 Yeah, it's more the variability of when I am forced downstairs to feed children than anything else! The quick heat up is great though, allows for a leisurely first shot.


----------



## RobDGio

MediumRoastSteam said:


> You do realise the machine, from cold, first heats up to approx. 120C (on the display) and then cools down to the set temperature? - This is irrespective of whether the tank is full or not.
> 
> Is this what you are referring to? If so, there's nothing wrong.
> 
> Did you read DavecUK's review? link on first post in this thread. If you haven't, make sure you read that thoroughly and use the recommended settings for the PID, specially with regards to showing the actual temperature rather than the set temperature.
> 
> If you've done all of the above and it's something completely different, a video or something like that would be great.


 That would explain it! I have it set on a smart plug so not usually up and downstairs to witness the initial heat up. I saw it at 117C this morning and was worried but that now makes sense. Thank you.

I must have missed that point in DavecUKs review but reassuring to know it's normal

thanks again


----------



## jonnycooper29

Since buying an old house that needs some tlc this time last year, I haven't had much time for coffee based shenanigans.. but I recently decided to upgrade but I'm stuck between the Marax and the Elizabeth, such a hard decision to make! Any wise words would be appreciated


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

jonnycooper29 said:


> Any wise words would be appreciated


 Personally, I'd never buy anything with an "X" in the name.

😂

"Z" is fine.

Jokes aside: What do you like better? Have you read and watched the reviews DavecUK made?


----------



## jonnycooper29

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Personally, I'd never buy anything with an "X" in the name.
> 
> "Z" is fine.
> Jokes aside: What do you like better? Have you read and watched the reviews DavecUK made?


Luckily I have a niche Zero! 
I've read both in quite a bit of detail and they both looks great and suit me in different ways. I typically make 3 or 4 coffees a day, 50/50 between espressos and flat whites. When we are allowed to have people visit, I tend to make a few back to back too.


----------



## Zoltan

jonnycooper29 said:


> Since buying an old house that needs some tlc this time last year, I haven't had much time for coffee based shenanigans.. but I recently decided to upgrade but I'm stuck between the Marax and the Elizabeth, such a hard decision to make! Any wise words would be appreciated


 I've had a MaraX for half year and now bought an Elizabeth couple of months ago. For now I prefer my lovely Lizzy. Why? Temperature control.

With the MaraX I wasn't sure about the temperature. Especially after I attached a thermometer to the head. It's a really good machine I definitely loved it but the temp stability was an issue for me. Also changing it...

At Elizabeth you use the screen and the boiler/tank is above the group head so it's more accurate. Also you can choose preinfusion.

I loved MaraX's leveler and its more pro home barista looking and I would buy it again if Elizabeth wouldn't exist 

My only issue with it that the puck stuck so many times to the shower screen and can't figure why.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Zoltan said:


> My only issue with it that the puck stuck so many times to the shower screen and can't figure why.


 Ha! Story of my life! They was my gripe with this machine. Infuriating stuff! Took to Bella Barista, tested it over there... no issue. Nothing. Same everything but the grinder and location. I use a Niche Zero.

I learnt to live with it. I found that, if you gently undo the portafilter applying downward pressure - very gently - then the puck doesn't stick. Or... Use an IMS basket. No stuck pucks for me.

It's coffee dependent too: some coffees stick more than others. 👍

Check

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/56781-are-you-getting-stickystuck-pucks-please-give-me-your-feedback/?do=embed


----------



## jonnycooper29

Hmm interesting, temp consistency is something I'm very keen on given the machines I've had before. Hence the upgrade to a 'proper' machine. I'm swayed by the Elizabeth at the moment, i think it's a more complete package, but wanted to check what the pros are for the marax on a day to day basis..


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

jonnycooper29 said:


> Hmm interesting, temp consistency is something I'm very keen on given the machines I've had before. Hence the upgrade to a 'proper' machine. I'm swayed by the Elizabeth at the moment, i think it's a more complete package, but wanted to check what the pros are for the marax on a day to day basis..


 Do you temp control? - Elizabeth;
Do you pre-infusion out of the box? - Elizabeth;
Do you want fast heat up time? Elizabeth;
Do you want very little maintenance and hassle free? Elizabeth;
Do you want timed buttons, shot timer? Elizabeth.

Do you want E61 (you'll need to lube the lever cam every month, and after back flushing chemically)? MaraX;
Do you want to add a flow control valve later? MaraX;
Do you want more traditional looks? MaraX;
Do you want more refined finish? MaraX. (comes with a nice tamper too!)


----------



## Zoltan

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Ha! Story of my life! They was my gripe with this machine. Infuriating stuff! Took to Bella Barista, tested it over there... no issue. Nothing. Same everything but the grinder and location. I use a Niche Zero.
> 
> I learnt to live with it. I found that, if you gently undo the portafilter applying downward pressure - very gently - then the puck doesn't stick. Or... Use an IMS basket. No stuck pucks for me.
> 
> It's coffee dependent too: some coffees stick more than others. 👍
> 
> Check
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/56781-are-you-getting-stickystuck-pucks-please-give-me-your-feedback/?do=embed


 Same here, using Niche Zero again.

I'm using VST 18g, IMS E&B Lab 16-18g and IMS Ultra-fine 16-18g.

At 94°C Ultra-fine almost always stuck, E&B Lab sometimes, VST bit more often. At 92°C it's a bit better. Most of the time I use 18g.


----------



## Zoltan

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Do you want more refined finish? MaraX. (comes with a nice tamper too!)


 Yeah that tamper comes with Elizabeth... How come?!?! A machine worth £1200 and you get a £5 plastic tamper usually given to £50-100 machines. It's a shame in my opinion 🙄


----------



## jonnycooper29

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Do you temp control? - Elizabeth;
> Do you pre-infusion out of the box? - Elizabeth;
> Do you want fast heat up time? Elizabeth;
> Do you want very little maintenance and hassle free? Elizabeth;
> Do you want timed buttons, shot timer? Elizabeth.
> Do you want E61 (you'll need to lube the lever cam every month, and after back flushing chemically)? MaraX;
> Do you want to add a flow control valve later? MaraX;
> Do you want more traditional looks? MaraX;
> Do you want more refined finish? MaraX. (comes with a nice tamper too!)


Okay, so all those videos I've watched and reviews I've read have been summed up in a few lines I think I'm pretty much settled on the Elizabeth then, just need to sell my other machine to part fund this new one (and a tamper upgrade it seems...)! Thanks both of you


----------



## jonnycooper29

I was so close to pulling the trigger on the Elizabeth, then I started thinking about the Minima.. I've done a lot of reading so I know most of the pros and cons of it, but I'm just wondering whether when we are out of lockdown and I have 5 or 6 people wanting a flat white, will the Elizabeth boiler size keep up?

The minima will clearly be able to steam enough milk and brew enough espressos, but will the Elizabeth cope?


----------



## 27852

jonnycooper29 said:


> I was so close to pulling the trigger on the Elizabeth, then I started thinking about the Minima.. I've done a lot of reading so I know most of the pros and cons of it, but I'm just wondering whether when we are out of lockdown and I have 5 or 6 people wanting a flat white, will the Elizabeth boiler size keep up?
> 
> The minima will clearly be able to steam enough milk and brew enough espressos, but will the Elizabeth cope?


 No one has been able to (legally) test it! You'd probably trigger a boiler fill on the way but it's very quick to recover. How fast is your workflow? I don't imagine you'd have a counter full of ready and waiting doses to be pulled back to back.

Steaming may be different but again it recovers quick. How much milk would you do at a time?

You may find that the best result would be doing it in batches of 2/3 at a time, but you might want to do that anyway rather than have your first shot on the counter cooling for 3-4 minutes (at the quickest) if you were to pull them continuously.


----------



## jonnycooper29

Kjk said:


> No one has been able to (legally) test it! You'd probably trigger a boiler fill on the way but it's very quick to recover. How fast is your workflow? I don't imagine you'd have a counter full of ready and waiting doses to be pulled back to back.
> Steaming may be different but again it recovers quick. How much milk would you do at a time?
> You may find that the best result would be doing it in batches of 2/3 at a time, but you might want to do that anyway rather than have your first shot on the counter cooling for 3-4 minutes (at the quickest) if you were to pull them continuously.


That makes sense, I'm just trying to gauge what 'very quick' is. Will my guests be waiting 10 minutes for their coffee after the first 2 people get theirs? If it is a couple of minutes then that is okay. This is what put me off the marax, 3 shots then having to wait 15 mins for it to stabilise again is too long.

I seem to have my workflow down, just before I pull a shot, I'll weigh out the dose for the next and start grinding whilst I pull the shot. Then I can knock out the puck, load up and tamp and repeat. I was thinking I would pull 2 shots then steam enough for those two, and continue in batches like that.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@jonnycooper29 - personally, I don't understand what you are alluding to. By the time you grind, prep and tamp, the machine is recovered. Unless you are using a super fast, hopper fed grinder that you just dose, level snd tamp, I don't see any issues with the Elizabeth.

There were a few people in the same dilema here, and, faced with this situation, they chose the Minima - a very different machine to the Elizabeth, and one Id be delighted to have if I had the space.


----------



## jonnycooper29

I just want to make sure I get the right machine when spending this much money. I wasn't sure if it'd be a problem having not seen videos of someone doing it or read something that says the recovery time is quick enough to not worry about it.

I've got space for the minima, it sounds like you think it might be a better machine? Or am I mistaken?


----------



## Ando

Making 5 or 6 drinks back to back is going to be a time consuming on most machines is it not? 
The most I have made back to back on my Elizabeth is 4 and it handled it fine - I did want to throw my hand grinder through the window however ...


----------



## jonnycooper29

Ando said:


> Making 5 or 6 drinks back to back is going to be a time consuming on most machines is it not?
> The most I have made back to back on my Elizabeth is 4 and it handled it fine - I did want to throw my hand grinder through the window however ...


I agree it will be time consuming, but it will be even more time consuming if I have to wait 10 minutes between every 2 shots! 4 on the trot sounds promising though.

You've got more patience than me, I would have given up halfway through the second shot if I was using my aergrind


----------



## 27852

jonnycooper29 said:


> I just want to make sure I get the right machine when spending this much money. I wasn't sure if it'd be a problem having not seen videos of someone doing it or read something that says the recovery time is quick enough to not worry about it.
> 
> I've got space for the minima, it sounds like you think it might be a better machine? Or am I mistaken?


 They're just different. Minima packs the potential for big performance into a more affordable package at the cost of some finishing. However you can add flow profiling and with its large boilers could scale up in use. Elizabeth is a tidier package and very much geared to home use - some advanced features but you could never run a coffee cart with it.

For me the Liz is great in fulfilling my everyday use case (2 caps back to back in the morning and assorted single shots throughout the day). The boiler size is just right (smaller thermal mass to heat quickly but also large enough not be completely thrown off when it cycles) though if I were brewing or steaming more I might consider how often I'd need to refill the tank.

Comparison to the Mara is not valid as the reason you're spending more is for the two boilers to eliminate the problem of overheating, flushing, and destabilising temperature.

I just made a cappuccino for my wife - used the water wand to preheat the cup and the brew boiler filled - 28s (88c to 93c). Finished steaming and the service boiler cycled - 24s (131c to 138c). It is fast!


----------



## jonnycooper29

After stewing this over in my mind all day, the Elizabeth is pre ordered!


----------



## postexitus

Thanks to @DavecUK's amazing in depth reviews and @MediumRoastSteam's advocacy here, I just pre-ordered a Lelit Elizabeth and Mignon Specialita from BB (And a 5L ashbeck from tesco 😇). Can't wait to get my first shots out.


----------



## jhf

I tried the IMS shower screen Cl 200 IM several times, but I always got 4 dimples on the coffee puck.
For the double filter (18 g) they were absolutely clear, for the single filter (10 g) they were not so visible, but they were there. Dishes I have a precise IMS. I tried different coffees, but it was the same. The original Lelit screen doesn't do that. Am I doing something wrong, or should I keep the original Lelit screen?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

jhf said:


> Am I doing something wrong, or should I keep the original Lelit screen?


 Been there. I didn't like the IMS CI 200 IM. I've reverted a long time ago. Stock one is perfectly fine.


----------



## jhf

Thank you for a quick response. I read earlier in the forum that you had it and returned to the original. I just wanted to make sure in the right procedure . IMS like it to be so smooth. What would this IMS: Cl 35 WM (https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/ims-cl-35-wm-shower-screen-9303-p.asp) be better than the original?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@jhf - it has a mesh like the original. Personally... I'd give it a miss. 😊

Are you having issues with the original shower screen?


----------



## jhf

No, none . I'm just thinking about how to improve the espresso equipment )


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

jhf said:


> No, none . I'm just thinking about how to improve the espresso equipment )


 Use as is to start with. Personally... I don't think the shower screen will improve anything.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Present from the wife!


----------



## jonnycooper29

I got a call from Bella barista yesterday saying the Elizabeth is going to be a while longer before I can get it, having already waited a month. So a rash decision and call back to BB, I have a bianca arriving next week.. whoops!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

jonnycooper29 said:


> I got a call from Bella barista yesterday saying the Elizabeth is going to be a while longer before I can get it, having already waited a month. So a rash decision and call back to BB, I have a bianca arriving next week.. whoops!


 Excellent! 👍


----------



## Dumlovesyou

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Present from the wife!
> 
> View attachment 56548


 Looks good, but the machine looks better.


----------



## postexitus

I finally got my Elizabeth after a long wait! Being the noob I am, still trying to figure out how to balance many options, but regardless, I have a question to the experts. The hot water spout is steaming during heat up and then starts to drip after reaching target temperature. Is this expected?

The Steam:


----------



## DavecUK

@postexitus It might drip a few drops after drawing water, but if the hot water tap continually drips while the steam boiler is on...that's not right.

Steam should not come out of the hot tap when warming up.....are you sure it's coming out of the hot tap?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@postexitus - I agree with Dave. Maybe a drip after drawing water is normal... But I've never seen after almost 1 year of Elizabeth ownership what I see in your video.

*Something is not right.* If I were you I would:

- Report this back to your retailer and log a case under warranty 😞 
- With their permission, ask them if you can open the top of the machine, so you can see what might be going on there.


----------



## postexitus

Noted, sent a mail across to Bella Barista support, thank you very much both!


----------



## Ando

Has anybody experienced issues with the steam wand on their Elizabeth? 
Mine is too hot to touch after steaming one jug of milk, which I am sure isn't right.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Ando said:


> Has anybody experienced issues with the steam wand on their Elizabeth?
> Mine is too hot to touch after steaming one jug of milk, which I am sure isn't right.


 It gets hot, as the heat from the PTFE tube transfer to metal. But you should be able to touch, although hot, without having skin burn and a subsequent blister - which is exactly what you'd get if you touch a box standard steam wand without the inner PTFE tube, I.e.: a 130C burn! Ouch!

if it's so hot you burn yourself, then something is wrong, but it should be an easy fix.

let us know.


----------



## Ando

@MediumRoastSteam Thanks, I found an old thread of yours discussing this issue on a different machine after I posted. 
Fairly certain I don't have issue, just ran loads of steam into a jug and it's not as hot as I thought it was earlier! 
Thanks


----------



## Maximum_RnB

Ando said:


> Has anybody experienced issues with the steam wand on their Elizabeth?
> Mine is too hot to touch after steaming one jug of milk, which I am sure isn't right.


 Mine is fairly cool to the touch if I keep away from the tip.

My issue with it is that the steam continues for a while after I turn it off. It's like the washer/gasket is starting to fail. It's not yet a year old and I've been careful not to over tighten it.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Maximum_RnB said:


> steam continues for a while after I turn it off.


 How much steam? I never overtightened mine, also under a year old. It does dribble a bit sometimes, and then I tighten it a bit more - still just very gently - I could go much, much further!


----------



## DavecUK

@Maximum_RnB steam, or drips can come from any steam wand after steaming. A small amount is quite normal.

Often people overtighten compression valves when they see this


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

I apply a very light hand closing of the steam tap. I've gotten into the habit of pushing the steam wand over the drip tray when switching off the machine. This allows any drips from the steam wand during the next warm up to land in the drip tray rather than the bench top.


----------



## yahyoh

Hey im joining the Elizabeth team tomorrow hopefully ,after suffering with Dedica for almost 2 years lol,

any tips? should i let the boilers fill then get to temp then empty them? i saw you can empty the service boiler simply by keeping the hot water tap open, what about the coffee boiler?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@yahyoh - welcome to the forum. Follow the instructions manual for instructions on how to setup the machine for the first time.

Then, read and watch and read again and watch again Dave's review of the machine, on the very first post in this thread.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

yahyoh said:


> keeping the hot water tap open


 There's no water tap on the Elizabeth. It's a micro switch on/off.


----------



## DavecUK

@MediumRoastSteam if I start using the Elizabeth again even I have to reread my review 🤣


----------



## yahyoh

Finally received my elithabeth & Mignon XL this morning before going to work,,,can't wait to get back to test them 🤩


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Has any Elizabeth owner changed the original gasket to a Cafelat, silicone red gasket? I've done that in the beginning but quickly reverted because I didn't like it. I felt I was getting stuck pucks, portafilter not locking in the right position, and since reverted to the stock, rubber gasket.

As the machine now heads to its first anniversary, I'm thinking of swapping it again. Would be great to hear your experience.


----------



## RobDGio

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Has any Elizabeth owner changed the original gasket to a Cafelat, silicone red gasket? I've done that in the beginning but quickly reverted because I didn't like it. I felt I was getting stuck pucks, portafilter not locking in the right position, and since reverted to the stock, rubber gasket.
> 
> As the machine now heads to its first anniversary, I'm thinking of swapping it again. Would be great to hear your experience.


 Same experience for me. Didn't feel like the red cafelat gasket allowed the portafilter to lock in at the right position as needs to go all the way to 4 o clock position and doesn't feel smooth either when locking in.


----------



## 27852

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Has any Elizabeth owner changed the original gasket to a Cafelat, silicone red gasket? I've done that in the beginning but quickly reverted because I didn't like it. I felt I was getting stuck pucks, portafilter not locking in the right position, and since reverted to the stock, rubber gasket.
> 
> As the machine now heads to its first anniversary, I'm thinking of swapping it again. Would be great to hear your experience.


 I swapped the stock rubber over to the cafelat red as it was feeling brittle and I was having difficulty getting a good seal for backflushing (I use bottomless with 15g VST and then have a backflush disc permanently in the Lelit coffee slide holder). I now get a good seal for the backflush, but I have been getting more stuck pucks that I attribute it to going down to the 15g basket. I employ the technique you've described of sliding the puck slightly when taking off the PF holder - it's not really too bad to do.

It doesn't feel as nice as when I swapped the silicone one in my GCP - that was nice and gummy.


----------



## yahyoh

The new toys










LMAO I wasted like half a kilo of coffee trying to dial things in,,,its still coming kinda sour.

im dosing around 18.5grams in IMS barista pro basket,,i tried to raise the temp to 94c and still came out little sour. should i try lelit basket maybe?

the machine is beast...literally it reach temp in 6-8 minutes (but still not ready fro brewing)

and the miganon XL is really fast..it grind 18-19 grams in 5.5-6 secs...and the grinds are fluffy.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

yahyoh said:


> still coming kinda sour.


 Did you read Dave's review (very first post here)? Did you change the PId settings?


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Did you read Dave's review (very first post here)? Did you change the PId settings?


 yep i already did and changed the PID setting as per Dave recommended setting.

also the pre infusion pressure seems kinda low, the pressure gauge barely move up while preinfusing, my steam boiler temp is set to 136c.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

yahyoh said:


> yep i already did and changed the PID setting as per Dave recommended setting.
> 
> also the pre infusion pressure seems kinda low, the pressure gauge barely move up while preinfusing, my steam boiler temp is set to 136c.


 Ok. So, assuming you are talking about steam pre infusion given you mention steam boiler temp.

if your boiler is at 136C, then the needle will move to 1.5 bar or thereabouts. We're you expecting more? Mine is set to 140C and it's just under 2 bar.

my pre-infusion lasts 10 seconds, 3 of which is pump run.

What readings and settings do you have?


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Ok. So, assuming you are talking about steam pre infusion given you mention steam boiler temp.
> 
> if your boiler is at 136C, then the needle will move to 1.5 bar or thereabouts. We're you expecting more? Mine is set to 140C and it's just under 2 bar.
> 
> my pre-infusion lasts 10 seconds, 3 of which is pump run.
> 
> What readings and settings do you have?


 i think around 1.2-1.5 bar


----------



## yahyoh

do you think if i grind finer and dose like 17 grams instead of 18.5 grams, it will decrease the sourness.

should the lelit basket do any better? 😅


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

yahyoh said:


> do you think if i grind finer and dose like 17 grams instead of 18.5 grams, it will decrease the sourness.
> 
> should the lelit basket do any better? 😅


 That's up to you to find out 

Experiment, try different things, different ratios, see what works for you. I've set on 18g in -> 36g out, VST 18g, over 35 seconds with 10s pre-infusion. Currently at 93C.

Just make sure the machine is on for at least 24 minutes before pulling a shot. Oh... And make sure the portafilter is as hot as the group. Cold portafilter = cold, sour coffee.


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> That's up to you to find out
> 
> Experiment, try different things, different ratios, see what works for you. I've set on 18g in -> 36g out, VST 18g, over 35 seconds with 10s pre-infusion. Currently at 93C.


 Thanks,,



> Just make sure the machine is on for at least 24 minutes before pulling a shot. Oh... And make sure the portafilter is as hot as the group. Cold portafilter = cold, sour coffee.


 Almost burned my hand yesterday as the portafilter was super hot 🔥 🥵

i'm used to dedica cold filter,,lmao. (used to pull 2-3 blank shots to heat it up)


----------



## 27852

yahyoh said:


> yep i already did and changed the PID setting as per Dave recommended setting.
> 
> also the pre infusion pressure seems kinda low, the pressure gauge barely move up while preinfusing, my steam boiler temp is set to 136c.


 It could also be headspace, and you should watch this whilst using steam preinfusion to prevent too much hot water entering the brew boiler. You want to make sure the initial pump run fills the headspace up completely so that the service boiler is only providing line pressure to the puck. Also, if you have ground too coarse or dosed too much then you may end up with extraction occurring through the preinfusion stage (although I use 18s preinfusion) either situation is bad because you don't want the superheated service boiler water to be flowing through the puck. I like a bit more steam power so have mine set to 145c - I think 140c is 2bar.

For that reason I have disabled preinfusion on my button 2 so when I am dialling in a new coffee I can get the grind right and determine the correct dose size - darker roasted beans are less dense so will take up more volume than lighter roasts. You can also use this to determine how long the pump needs to run to fill the brew chamber headspace so you can safely use the steam preinfusion. You can either alter your dose or change the initial pump run time to get optimum headspace fill (but that leads you to having to enter the PID settings menu so I opt for dose).

I hope this is helpful, it's a nice machine once you get your head round it.


----------



## yahyoh

For some reason, the pre infusion pressure seems too low?

i tested with coffee in. and with blind basket, tried to raise and service boiler temp to 142c but still the pre infusion pressure seems too low. Even tried to reset the setting to factory setting and to increase the pre infusion pump on to 6 secs.

I saw dave review and pressure almost reached 3-4 bars.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eJXhYs6g-SHd2xEkl0rrT6IuHDjg2LyJ/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QySaAJXagng2PGbO-XefeGvb2bVOlYeP/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TOaDSiJNN5RLdANX8udl1ErcwBZg2PDX/view?usp=sharing

edit:

attathced screenshot


----------



## 27852

yahyoh said:


> For some reason, the pre infusion pressure seems too low?
> 
> i tested with coffee in. and with blind basket, tried to raise and service boiler temp to 142c but still the pre infusion pressure seems too low. Even tried to reset the setting to factory setting and to increase the pre infusion pump on to 6 secs.
> 
> I saw dave review and pressure almost reached 3-4 bars.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eJXhYs6g-SHd2xEkl0rrT6IuHDjg2LyJ/view?usp=sharing
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QySaAJXagng2PGbO-XefeGvb2bVOlYeP/view?usp=sharing
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TOaDSiJNN5RLdANX8udl1ErcwBZg2PDX/view?usp=sharing
> 
> edit:
> 
> attathced screenshot
> 
> View attachment 57725


 That is 3s of pump run which means that gap between the shower screen and puck filled with enough water to generate 3bar of pressure. You have to set the initial pump run to fill the headspace and then worry about the line pressure once that is achieved. You cannot test this with the blind basket as it takes 7-8s for it to fill and there is no puck to give the resistance you need (you have to run 2 manual purges to get the OPV to kick in when backflushing).

What size dose is your basket? Dose to that nominal and pull a shot with no preinfusion. Video both the shot timer and the manometer and as soon as the pressure starts to ramp set your initial pump run to 1s before the dial shoots. That is the amount of water needed to fill up the headspace and then the line pressure will correlate to your service boiler temperature.

If you do not manage to fill up the headspace with water in the initial pump run you will never see the manometer hit the pressure you expect, regardless of service boiler temperature. It will always be under until sufficient water fills the void.

It doesn't matter what pressure is achieved in any video because you don't know what dose they are using. The key point is that you understand the interplay between dose and pump run needed to fill the headspace.


----------



## bk85

yahyoh said:


> The new toys
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO I wasted like half a kilo of coffee trying to dial things in,,,its still coming kinda sour.
> 
> im dosing around 18.5grams in IMS barista pro basket,,i tried to raise the temp to 94c and still came out little sour. should i try lelit basket maybe?
> 
> the machine is beast...literally it reach temp in 6-8 minutes (but still not ready fro brewing)
> 
> and the miganon XL is really fast..it grind 18-19 grams in 5.5-6 secs...and the grinds are fluffy.


 You could also try lowering your dose to 17g, or even 16g (depending on your basket). Sour means underextracted, and a lower dose is easier to extract.


----------



## bk85

My Portafilter needs to be tightened quite firmly (to at least 6 o'clock), otherwise water will leak from between the filter basket and the shower gasket when pulling a shot. Also sometimes my filter basket (IMS 18g ridgeless) gets stuck to the shower screen when removing the portafilter (empty or full). 
Is this normal behavior? I always clean the shower screen and gasket after every shot, and remove and clean the gasket every 4 weeks. I pull around 2-4 shots a day.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

bk85 said:


> stuck to the shower screen when removing the portafilter (empty or full


 It happens to me if I wash the basket, and then out it back in the group without driving it well. Never happened with a full basket though.


----------



## 27852

MediumRoastSteam said:


> It happens to me if I wash the basket, and then out it back in the group without driving it well. Never happened with a full basket though.


 I can get it if I try to take it off when the machine is cold.

Never thought about it being wet, at least it means it's a good seal!


----------



## bk85

MediumRoastSteam said:


> It happens to me if I wash the basket, and then out it back in the group without driving it well. Never happened with a full basket though.





Kjk said:


> I can get it if I try to take it off when the machine is cold.
> 
> Never thought about it being wet, at least it means it's a good seal!


 Ok nothing to worry about then I guess  It only happens with an empty basket here too. Still super happy with this machine after almost 6 months.


----------



## yahyoh

Kjk said:


> That is 3s of pump run which means that gap between the shower screen and puck filled with enough water to generate 3bar of pressure. You have to set the initial pump run to fill the headspace and then worry about the line pressure once that is achieved. You cannot test this with the blind basket as it takes 7-8s for it to fill and there is no puck to give the resistance you need (you have to run 2 manual purges to get the OPV to kick in when backflushing).
> 
> What size dose is your basket? Dose to that nominal and pull a shot with no preinfusion. Video both the shot timer and the manometer and as soon as the pressure starts to ramp set your initial pump run to 1s before the dial shoots. That is the amount of water needed to fill up the headspace and then the line pressure will correlate to your service boiler temperature.
> 
> If you do not manage to fill up the headspace with water in the initial pump run you will never see the manometer hit the pressure you expect, regardless of service boiler temperature. It will always be under until sufficient water fills the void.
> 
> It doesn't matter what pressure is achieved in any video because you don't know what dose they are using. The key point is that you understand the interplay between dose and pump run needed to fill the headspace.


 actually i tried to dose 19 gram in IMS 18 gram barista pro basket and set the pump to run 3 secs to fill the gab but still,,pressure barely going to 0.7-1 bar even with steam boiler set to 140 c

edit: it could be EVS valve issue? or im overthinking it? or could be the IMS basket?


----------



## 27852

IMS are weird in that they can dose in a range. I'm guessing your '18' is the 18-22g which would make sense that there is more headspace hence a lack of pressure build during steam PI.

Video a shot with no preinfusion and report back the second before pressure ramps from 2 to 9 bar. I think you've probably got headspace to run the pump for 4-5s (maybe even 6).


----------



## yahyoh

Kjk said:


> IMS are weird in that they can dose in a range. I'm guessing your '18' is the 18-22g which would make sense that there is more headspace hence a lack of pressure build during steam PI.
> 
> Video a shot with no preinfusion and report back the second before pressure ramps from 2 to 9 bar. I think you've probably got headspace to run the pump for 4-5s (maybe even 6).


 Ill try to increase it to 5-6 secs and report back

thanks.


----------



## 27852

yahyoh said:


> Ill try to increase it to 5-6 secs and report back
> 
> thanks.


 I really suggest observing it with the preinfusion turned off. This is the safest way to determine your initial pump run.

If you run the pump too long and the pressure spikes to 8/9bar cut the shot and program at least 1s earlier. You do not want superheated water in the brew boiler.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

yahyoh said:


> could be EVS valve issue


 Is EVS = 1 in advanced settings?

quick way to test if steam pre-infusion is working:

- both boilers up to temp;
- pre fusion time set to 10s:
- no portafilter.
- hit the brew button: pump will run for 3 seconds depending on what you set:
- if water keeps coming out after the pump run through the duration of the pre-infusion, then it's working.

headspace is key. If the pre-infusion needs to fill the headspace, then it will take longer to build the pressure. Same with bloom ore-infusion.

IMS 26.5h will take 20g of a medium roasted coffee with the ideal headspace for the Elizabeth. 18g will leave you with a lot of head space.


----------



## yahyoh

Kjk said:


> I really suggest observing it with the preinfusion turned off. This is the safest way to determine your initial pump run.
> 
> If you run the pump too long and the pressure spikes to 8/9bar cut the shot and program at least 1s earlier. You do not want superheated water in the brew boiler.


 Ill try it today.

i tried this morning 5 secs with 10 sec pre infusion, the manometer needle barely even moved. ( i decreased the steam boiler to 136c as it was too powerful at 140 😅 )


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Is EVS = 1 in advanced settings?
> 
> quick way to test if steam pre-infusion is working:
> 
> - both boilers up to temp;
> - pre fusion time set to 10s:
> - no portafilter.
> - hit the brew button: pump will run for 3 seconds depending on what you set:
> - if water keeps coming out after the pump run through the duration of the pre-infusion, then it's working.
> 
> headspace is key. If the pre-infusion needs to fill the headspace, then it will take longer to build the pressure. Same with bloom ore-infusion.
> 
> IMS 26.5h will take 20g of a medium roasted coffee with the ideal headspace for the Elizabeth. 18g will leave you with a lot of head space.


 Yes EVS=1 in advance setting,

i already did test it, and water keeps coming out when no portafilter in while pump is off, the IMS basket i have is the 24mm which said to take 15-18 grams,

https://www.barista.gr/en/barista-pro-ims-competition-filter-basket-18gr

I'm starting to think its something maybe related to the scale? maybe the portafilter is not sitting probably on the scale which affecting the weight accuracy?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

yahyoh said:


> Yes EVS=1 in advance setting,
> 
> i already did test it, and water keeps coming out when no portafilter in while pump is off, the IMS basket i have is the 24mm which said to take 15-18 grams,
> 
> https://www.barista.gr/en/barista-pro-ims-competition-filter-basket-18gr
> 
> I'm starting to think its something maybe related to the scale? maybe the portafilter is not sitting probably on the scale which affecting the weight accuracy?


 Yes. 18g for the 24mm. That's good.

I'll shoot a video for you so you can see what happens on mine shortly.

edit: video below:

3 seconds pump run, 10 seconds in total.
steam temp 140C, offset 0 - important!
VST 18g, 18g of coffee, light/medium roast. Total shot time 39 seconds, 37g out.


----------



## 27852

You can see that 3s initial pump run is perfect for @MediumRoastSteam's shot. You get that little ramp up and then at 4s it holds steady until PI is done.

I dose 15g of light roast or 14.5g medium roast into my 15g basket with 4s of initial pump run. I like my steam a bit stronger so my service boiler is at 145c so approaching 3bar.

To illustrate volume/headspace differences there is 15g in the tube on the left and 14.5g on the right. This is why a basket will give you a nominal size +/- 1g. To be honest I've never gotten the wide range of dosing that IMS quote but I would guess the average dose to be the midpoint in that range. Bean density matters though, especially for preinfusion.


----------



## JahLaza

Kjk said:


> You can see that 3s initial pump run is perfect for @MediumRoastSteam's shot. You get that little ramp up and then at 4s it holds steady until PI is done.
> 
> I dose 15g of light roast or 14.5g medium roast into my 15g basket with 4s of initial pump run. I like my steam a bit stronger so my service boiler is at 145c so approaching 3bar.
> 
> To illustrate volume/headspace differences there is 15g in the tube on the left and 14.5g on the right. This is why a basket will give you a nominal size +/- 1g. To be honest I've never gotten the wide range of dosing that IMS quote but I would guess the average dose to be the midpoint in that range. Bean density matters though, especially for preinfusion.
> 
> View attachment 57744


 Do you mean the other way round with the tube illustration?


----------



## JahLaza

@MediumRoastSteamyou put something up a few posts ago about cafelat gasket. I was just about to order one for my one month old Elizabeth as I was getting leakage of water during the shot dripping down to the spout (of double spout pf) and down along the pf handle. I have been cleaning the shower screen every 3 days or so and took the gasket out just to be nosy! And give it a clean. Not sure if I'd put it back in correctly but leakage continued. There is the circular mark of the basket on one side, which also has a slightly wider circumference and lip, and a flat surface on the other. So I put the flat surface up into the slot leaving the side with basket and slight lip facing down to meet the pf and basket, is that correct?

So, after ensuring all was in correctly I still get leakage but not always. Pf locks at 6, I push it a little further to try prevent leak. It was locking at about 7 with the gasket in the other way round. The gasket is flexible and only a month old but can't think of what else could allow the leaking, and ideas? I was going to get the cafelat silicone one but will hold off for now after reading your piece


----------



## 27852

JahLaza said:


> Do you mean the other way round with the tube illustration?


 No the one on the left has 15g of a lightly roasted Tanzanian coffee. The one on the right is 14.5g of a medium roasted Brazilian. If I were to (and have made the mistake of) dosing 15g of the medium coffee I would not have enough headspace for a 4s initial pump run - the machine actually hit 8 bar and full on extraction flow through the preinfusion which is not good!


----------



## JahLaza

Aha,I understand you now, and I think that's what has happened me recently when I changed bean from Guatemala to Ethiopian, Ethiopian much smaller beans, grinder needed to be much coarser but eventually realised I had to also up the dose of the Ethiopian due to stuck pucks and sometimes significant channeling. Now at 17g dose (up from 16g with stock lelit double) started Pre infusion on it today it's improved dramatically with the above realisations!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza said:


> So I put the flat surface up into the slot leaving the side with basket and slight lip facing down to meet the pf and basket, is that correct?


 That's incorrect! The flat side faces the portafilter basket.


----------



## 27852

@JahLaza I took my rubber gasket out and replaced with the cafelat as it was getting hard and I really had to wrench to get a good seal. From a design perspective I feel rubber to be a poor choice as it hardens over time and retains a ridge from the PF, undermining the seal.

Glad the preinfusion is working better for you. Dosing by eye doesn't seem to be too bad a strategy once you take density into account!


----------



## JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam said:


> That's incorrect! The flat side faces the portafilter basket.


 Ah no! It doesn't fit 'correctly' if I try place it flat side down, and pf will only go to about 7 o'clock! Here's three pics, one of either side and one of side profile of my gasket, I had been putting the narrower diameter/flat surface up into the group head, are you saying the flanged side with what looks like basket groove on under side should be facing up into the group head then? Seems a natural fit the other way round


----------



## 27852

Smooth side up, ridged side down - that groove is from your portafilter.

With that amount of compression it is no wonder you're getting some leaks!


----------



## JahLaza

Ha ha fair enough! So back to the source of this, is cafelat silicone a better option than the lelit stock rubber? I figured the silicone a better option due to all the obvious and stated advantages but then there's a couple of not so happy campers here with the cafelat on this machine?


----------



## 27852

JahLaza said:


> Ha ha fair enough! So back to the source of this, is cafelat silicone a better option than the lelit stock rubber? I figured the silicone a better option due to all the obvious and stated advantages but then there's a couple of not so happy campers here with the cafelat on this machine?


 I'm happy with my cafelat, it's a better seal and I was getting stuck pucks when moving down to 15g doses, just do the patented "unlock and slide" move to get it off.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Kjk said:


> Smooth side up, ridged side down


 With a new gasket, the flat side, not bevelled, should touch the filter basket. There for any machine.


----------



## JahLaza

Ok cool cheers @MediumRoastSteam I'm going to order a couple new gaskets now anyway to have might try one of each and that's good to know. I've had to tighten the pf pretty tight from start as it leaked a bit from new unless I did. So folks, for the replacements is it 8mm, not 8.5? And I've found it difficult to confirm which o ring seal is correct for this machine also as I might as well get one while I'm ordering the others!


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## MediumRoastSteam

@JahLaza - it's 8mm, standard E61 seal.

when you install it, make sure you don't tighten the shower screen too much. Literally finger tight - no tools up to this point - and then a 1/2 turn with a screw driver. I found that, with the screen too tight, water can get behind the gasket when under pressure, and push the gasket forwards just slightly. Youll notice that your portafilter will start locking before the locking point, and you really need to apply some force to lock - which is just wrong. You'll see when they happens as literally you can poke the gasket with a chopstick and water squirts out. By not doing it so tight, water then have means to escape out. In my experience.


----------



## JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @JahLaza - it's 8mm, standard E61 seal.
> 
> when you install it, make sure you don't tighten the shower screen too much. Literally finger tight - no tools up to this point - and then a 1/2 turn with a screw driver. I found that, with the screen too tight, water can get behind the gasket when under pressure, and push the gasket forwards just slightly. Youll notice that your portafilter will start locking before the locking point, and you really need to apply some force to lock - which is just wrong. You'll see when they happens as literally you can poke the gasket with a chopstick and water squirts out. By not doing it so tight, water then have means to escape out. In my experience.


 Ah, that may explain the leaks to date as I would hazard a guess that I've tightened the screen excessively each time in that case. I had read something you had posted before on this but now it's more real! Regarding the o-ring, is it advisable to change at same interval as gasket or just as needed(damaged/broken)?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@JahLaza - there's no need to change the o-ring.


----------



## yahyoh

> 22 hours ago, MediumRoastSteam said:
> 
> Yes. 18g for the 24mm. That's good.
> 
> I'll shoot a video for you so you can see what happens on mine shortly.
> 
> edit: video below:
> 
> 3 seconds pump run, 10 seconds in total.
> steam temp 140C, offset 0 - important!
> VST 18g, 18g of coffee, light/medium roast. Total shot time 39 seconds, 37g out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (please ignore any voices in the vids 😂)


----------



## 27852

> 55 minutes ago, yahyoh said:
> 
> Here's a test with 19gram and 5 secs BLS (pump on time froe pre infusion) - steam boiler temp set to 140c with no offset as per dave setting. ( pressure barely reached 0.5 bar)


 Can you do a shot with no preinfusion? The blind basket will have different headspace to your dosed basket - I'm assuming there is a lot more room in your IMS so the dosed vs blind times for pump ramp aren't comparable.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza said:


> View attachment 57757


 I have to say, if this is the side that faces the portafilter basket, and that's the indentation, you must be tightening your portafilter with some considerable force! My gasket is now almost one year old, and it looks as good as new!


----------



## JahLaza

Hi, yes, well firstly thank you for your advise on shower screen torque value! It had been too tight which was causing the leakage around top of pf, which in turn had me unknowingly over tightening the pf. Me thinks the shower screen was too tight from new as I had to tighten it past 6 o'clock from new to prevent leakage. So, in conclusion, I have had no leaks since adjusting shower screen a little looser, gasket is compressed but still working as it should. I'll be buying a spare so I have one and will monitor all of above going forward but all great advise here folks I've a better understanding of this most basic of operation! Focus on great coffee now👍


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## yahyoh

Kjk said:


> Can you do a shot with no preinfusion? The blind basket will have different headspace to your dosed basket - I'm assuming there is a lot more room in your IMS so the dosed vs blind times for pump ramp aren't comparable.


 it took around 5-6 secs

for some reason i'm having really hard time dialing things in,,,today i got new coffee to test it,,and already wasted like one hour and 300 grams of coffee, tired to adjust grind & dose & tamping pressure. For some reason the extraction starts at 9 bars then drops to 8-7 bars? which indicate of channeling i guess? already tried to go finer and to change the does. Still happening.

also pre infusion pressure still always very super low, like the manometer needle barley even moving now even with 6 secs BLS, tried to dose more,,to use lelit basket, to change tamping pressure, to increase steam boiler temp to 140-142c, to remove any offset for steam boiler, to use dave setting... and nothing is helping

I thought dialing things in gonna be easier, i'm really getting frustrated 😤

edit: could be EVS issue? Manometer issue?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Which grinder have you?

5-6s no pre-infusion seems fine. It would take this long depending on head space, coffee, etc. You might need to work on your technique, but that's for another day. What we are trying to solve here is steam pre infusion reaching 2bar after 5 seconds or so, and staying there.

so:

-EVS=1, which you have;
-pump run for about 3 seconds, which you have;
-pre infusion for button 1 is set to 10 seconds;
- machine is not in Eco mode and, if you open the steam tap, steam comes out?
- you then dose 18g of coffee into your basket, and lock. You press button 1 and the gauge doesn't move past 0.5bar during the first 10 seconds?

can you confirm please.


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Which grinder have you?
> 
> 5-6s no pre-infusion seems fine. It would take this long depending on head space, coffee, etc. You might need to work on your technique, but that's for another day. What we are trying to solve here is steam pre infusion reaching 2bar after 5 seconds or so, and staying there.
> 
> so:
> 
> -EVS=1, which you have;
> -pump run for about 3 seconds, which you have;
> -pre infusion for button 1 is set to 10 seconds;
> - machine is not in Eco mode and, if you open the steam tap, steam comes out?
> - you then dose 18g of coffee into your basket, and lock. You press button 1 and the gauge doesn't move past 0.5bar during the first 10 seconds?
> 
> can you confirm please.


 Eureka mignon XL

-EVS=1

-tried 3 to 6 and made not much difference

-yep set to 10secs

-not in eco mode. both boilers are on and confirmed steam boiler at 140c

-yes, even tried 19 grams to decrease the head space.

even tried to reset the setting to default incase something is messed up and made no difference.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@yahyoh - ok. As a test, set you pre-infusion total time to 30 seconds. Does the pre-infusion ever reaches 2 bar pressure? It it does, then we will have to keep banging on head space. If it doesn't, and coffee starts coming out eventually, then it might be the manometer - I doubt it though.


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## 27852

@yahyoh here are the settings on my machine, if helpful:

KPc 0.2

KIc 0.07

KDc 10.0

Bc 30

KPs 2.0

KIs 0.00

KDs 0.0

Bs 1

Ec 10

Es 0

F01 1

TR 1

EVS 1

BLS1 4

BLS2 5

BLP1 5

BLP2 6

PRG 6

What is happening with the puck during PI - are you getting flow through? You should see beading of coffee on the bottom of the filter screen and maybe a few drips but no flow. If you get flow then the grind needs to be finer. How long did it take for you to yield a 2:1 ratio with you non PI test shot?


----------



## jhf

Ask another topic. Does anyone know of a replacement water container that is narrower than the original? It earns very poorly for cleaning.


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @yahyoh - ok. As a test, set you pre-infusion total time to 30 seconds. Does the pre-infusion ever reaches 2 bar pressure? It it does, then we will have to keep banging on head space. If it doesn't, and coffee starts coming out eventually, then it might be the manometer - I doubt it though.


 tested with 15 secs pre infusion this morning but pressure still did not go past like 0.3-0.5 bar.

the extraction time was fine : 15 secs per infusion, 27 secs extraction. total time around 40 secs. (didnt check the manometer was just woke up lol)

although upon checking the puck after extraction there was a hole in the puck,,totally im getting a distributor today even though the coffee grounds seems to get distributed well enough in the basket.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@yahyoh - so that I understand: for 15 seconds the needle didn't move? Has any coffee dripped in those 15 seconds?


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## 27852

Don't want to mess with YouTube but stills from a shot I did earlier to give you a guide as to what you should be seeing.

4s - end of IPR - 3bar

11s - midway through PI - coffee is "sweating" - 3bar

20s - extraction pump up to 8bar (my OPV is set to 8bar)


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## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @yahyoh - so that I understand: for 15 seconds the needle didn't move? Has any coffee dripped in those 15 seconds?


 it moved a lil til like 0.3-0.5 bar,and nope not at all.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@yahyoh - if you haven't got any coffee out, then something is not right. If it's not building pressure, it's because something is not sealed. The boiler will exert 2 bar pressure. If that's not happening, then het pressure must be venting out elsewhere. When you do this next, could you check if there's water coming into the drip tray whilst your brew? @DavecUK - any clues here?

Summary: even after 15 seconds of steam pressure-infusion, pressure does not build up to 2 bar. We have checked:

- boiler is at 140C;
- water comes out of the group during PI after pump run, checked without the PF in place)
- EVS is set to 1.
- pressure builds up to barely 0.3 bar or so. Even after 15 seconds of pre-infusion, coffee does not drip and pressure does not build up.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@yahyoh - where did you buy your machine from? You should log this case with the retailer.


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## DavecUK

@yahyoh I watched the videos, were they being done against a blind basket...if so, the basket may not be filling enough, then the steam comes in and can't make pressure, but I don't know.

The only other cause could be a wire off on the solenoid valve controlling the steam preinfusion, or the valve not working.

Do a video without a portafilter in, make sure the machine is set to show the actual temperature in the brew boiler and not the preset...show the group, then after the preinfusion once the shot begins...stop the shot and video the brew boiler temperature for a bit.


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## yahyoh

@DavecUK already tried with coffee, using lelit basket, IMS basket, Using 18/19 grams, blind basket, grind finner to choke the machine, even tried to increase PI pump on time to 5-6 secs and all made no difference honestly.

i think steam pre infusion is already working but not pressurizing the basket for some reason,

here's a test i already done without portafilter in,machine was set to TR:1 and steam boiler temp of 140c.


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @yahyoh - where did you buy your machine from? You should log this case with the retailer.


 from https://www.barista.gr/, already contacted the seller to double check with lelit regarding the issue.


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @yahyoh - if you haven't got any coffee out, then something is not right. If it's not building pressure, it's because something is not sealed. The boiler will exert 2 bar pressure. If that's not happening, then het pressure must be venting out elsewhere. When you do this next, could you check if there's water coming into the drip tray whilst your brew? @DavecUK - any clues here?
> 
> Summary: even after 15 seconds of steam pressure-infusion, pressure does not build up to 2 bar. We have checked:
> 
> - boiler is at 140C;
> - water comes out of the group during PI after pump run, checked without the PF in place)
> - EVS is set to 1.
> - pressure builds up to barely 0.3 bar or so. Even after 15 seconds of pre-infusion, coffee does not drip and pressure does not build up.


 yes no coffee were coming from the spouts. it maybe the 3 way solenoid stuck and venting? but i'm seeing no water dripping in the tray!



> - boiler is at 140C; yep
> - water comes out of the group during PI after pump run, checked without the PF in place) yep
> - EVS is set to 1. yep
> - pressure builds up to barely 0.3 bar or so. Even after 15 seconds of pre-infusion, coffee does not drip and pressure does not build up. no coffee coming out at all.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@yahyoh - have you ever dismantled the group for cleaning? If so, did you ou the shower place the right way up, did you put the red o-ring back and is the group gasket facing the correct way up? If you haven't, bayberry worth a check. When you put it back together, make sure the screw is not too tight.


----------



## DavecUK

@yahyoh that video doesn't show what I need to see.


----------



## yahyoh

Sadly i tried to back flush clean it, and now the OPV seem stuck venting. and making some weird noises. ( actually i heard the same noise on first run then it disappeared after first shot)

so the issue since the start was the OPV i think. Oh well.

I'm really disappointed. do you have any idea what could be the fix?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zAq3kFPFu3fw9trh7NShR6AYmWjCaf--/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1puGooC7zNctV-4Yj3BpZR-8Dv3BoZCuq/view?usp=sharing

edit: tried to run a shot and water only went out of OPV vent instead of going to shower head.

edit: its working kinda...

now back to very low pressure infusion & losing pressure while extracting. (no leaks from group head either)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CJbNln8faXzrU2Xib7sF9QaBzradmVrP/view?usp=sharing

edit 2 : i guess its the 3 way solenoid not OPV lol.


----------



## DavecUK

@yahyoh Yes, sound like a little debris under the seat (causes them to buzz)...it's easy to fix, just open it up and remove it, clean it and put it back. Depending on your warranty and who it's with.

Bit of a pig to get to though...so might be best to do a warranty return.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

yahyoh said:


> it maybe the 3 way solenoid stuck and venting? but i'm seeing no water dripping in the tray


 So earlier you said there was nothing on the drip tray, but now there is?

The solenoid is right behind the group, and, in order to get there, you need to take the top, the sides and the tank assembly off. It's a pain.

speak to your retailer. Let them deal with that. Good luck!


----------



## yahyoh

for some weird reason, now its brewing ok besides the pressure drop & very low pressure infusion.

Could be the rubber gasket not sealing well? i'm really disappointed in lelit QC honestly. 

anyway im looking with the reseller into the issue(he told he will contact lelit), i might let them send a replacement despite being pain in the ass to ship it back to them.


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> So earlier you said there was nothing on the drip tray, but now there is?
> 
> The solenoid is right behind the group, and, in order to get there, you need to take the top, the sides and the tank assembly off. It's a pain.
> 
> speak to your retailer. Let them deal with that. Good luck!


 maybe it was not so obvious, it just go way worse after i did back flush cleaning for some reason,, i think there is a leak somewhere or the 3 way solenoid not fully sealing? could be OPV issue?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@yahyoh - if it was the group gasket&#8230;. It would be leaking all over the show. It's most likely it's the solenoid, but, if it's that, you should see water entering the drip tray whilst pre-infusing.

if it's the OPV, then you'd see water going back to the tank whist pre-infusing. I very much doubt it's the OPV.


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @yahyoh - have you ever dismantled the group for cleaning? If so, did you ou the shower place the right way up, did you put the red o-ring back and is the group gasket facing the correct way up? If you haven't, bayberry worth a check. When you put it back together, make sure the screw is not too tight.


 do u have any reference pic how the correct way is to put the o ring in


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@yahyoh - there's no side for the red o ring. For the group gasket (black) it's flat side facing down, meaning the side with a bevel and indentation face the group.

https://sway.office.com/qoXHjmMAg4DeFX8b


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @yahyoh - there's no side for the red o ring. For the group gasket (black) it's flat side facing down, meaning the side with a bevel and indentation face the group.
> 
> https://sway.office.com/qoXHjmMAg4DeFX8b


 I removed the group gasket and double checked, for sure its in the correct way as the flat the side is facing up.

anyway i did extensive testing yesterday before going to sleep, removed the drip tray and monitored if the 3 way solenoid is letting the pressure vent and nothing is coming out no water no nothing while pre infusion so its closing correct? im not sure why it gut stuck after back flush cleaning yesterday.

Im really out of ideas, even with blind basket full of water it wont pressure enough with PI, and pressure still drops mid extraction to like 5-6 bars ( maybe my machine has some kind of pressure profiling? JK 😅)

I'm really disappointed with lelit QC for now. its my first professional machine and its has been depressing experience till now


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@yahyoh - sorry to hear your experience. Given everything you are showing us, something is not right, IMO. Hopefully the retailer can sort it out.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza said:


> Ha ha fair enough! So back to the source of this, is cafelat silicone a better option than the lelit stock rubber? I figured the silicone a better option due to all the obvious and stated advantages but then there's a couple of not so happy campers here with the cafelat on this machine?





Kjk said:


> I'm happy with my cafelat, it's a better seal and I was getting stuck pucks when moving down to 15g doses, just do the patented "unlock and slide" move to get it off.


 Just re-installed my Cafelat gasket. Now that I understand and know the machine much, much better, I would definitely recommend it. It's much softer, and, contrary to what I was doing before, I don't need to lock until I can no longer: I simply lock to roughly the same position as I was locking with the rubber stock gasket, just before 6 o'clock kind of thing.

there's no need to be heavy handed, just lock, gently, until it's right. No need to use the full strength of your wrists, only your fingers. I was doing that right at the start, but that was because the shower screen was in too tight, and water would go behind the gasket when under pressure and stay there afterwards, pushing it forwards. As discussed before, no need to tighten the shower screen so much.

with regards to stuck pucks, there's no real difference whether you use one or the other. Just remember, don't go crazy overtightening shower screens or portafilter. 😊


----------



## 27852

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Just re-installed my Cafelat gasket. Now that I understand and know the machine much, much better, I would definitely recommend it. It's much softer, and, contrary to what I was doing before, I don't need to lock until I can no longer: I simply lock to roughly the same position as I was locking with the rubber stock gasket, just before 6 o'clock kind of thing.
> 
> there's no need to be heavy handed, just lock, gently, until it's right. No need to use the full strength of your wrists, only your fingers. I was doing that right at the start, but that was because the shower screen was in too tight, and water would go behind the gasket when under pressure and stay there afterwards, pushing it forwards. As discussed before, no need to tighten the shower screen so much.
> 
> with regards to stuck pucks, there's no real difference whether you use one or the other. Just remember, don't go crazy overtightening shower screens or portafilter. 😊


 Yup I had a play with the shower screen screw and loosening it has significantly improved matters. Stay loose out there muchachos!


----------



## JahLaza

Exact same experience for me. I haven't had any leakage since loosening the screen, and don't need to tighten portafilter so much (even though as you can see I've left my mark on the gasket!) so, cheers for the advice, not sure I would have copped that one, and how much frustration and waste would have resulted! I'll be ordering a silicone gasket to have as my spare. Stuck pucks I think were due to low dosage, when I increased to 17g from 16g in the stock double that went away, due to a different bean. Oh, and, isn't that pre- infusion a wonderful thing with slow roasted coffee!👌


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

That's how much I tighten my screen:


----------



## JahLaza

May I request this 'everyone should know' tip to be added to Dave's document for 'pro' results? ! Really is an important point for machine operation, I've been able to concentrate on extracting coffee since that became sorted for me! cheers mediumroast


----------



## yahyoh

*Im slightly disappointed in lelit support/customer service @*DavecUK* what do you think? Lelit still going back and forth with retailer i bought from since almost a week and telling me to send a videos testing this and that. Even though i already explained to the retailer that i did every step to try to fix it , it is not even funny as i bought a new machine which cost around 1200 euros which came not working as intended, and another issue which totally turned me off the back flush cleaning issue where the 3 way solenoid stuck venting i think? it was just making weird noises and water going to drip tray instead of group head which fixed itself after like 1 hour. *

edit: also im getting stuck pucks in the basket either or on the shower screen like 90% of the time with really weird channeling. which did not even happened that bad in previous dedica. tomorrow the distributor will be delivered, i hope its going to make things better. i tried to dose less and more and it didn't help at all.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@yahyoh - I believe the warranty is with the retailer. They should fix it and contact Lelit, not you.

I don't know the laws of your country, or where you got it from, but I would make sure you know your rights as a consumer and make sure you don't get fobbed off.


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @yahyoh - I believe the warranty is with the retailer. They should fix it and contact Lelit, not you.
> 
> I don't know the laws of your country, or where you got it from, but I would make sure you know your rights as a consumer and make sure you don't get fobbed off.


 Yes, they are contacting lelit and looping me in, but i feel like lelit is acting like it is not a big iseeu, lets whats gonna happen next week.

I got it form a retailer from greek. they keep assuring me if the the issue is big they will replace it.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

yahyoh said:


> they keep assuring me if the the issue is big they will replace it.


 Well&#8230; it's simply not working as intended is it. Keep pushing, it's not a cheap machine, it's quite a considerable amount of money and it should work as intended. Emphasise to them that steam pre-infusion should be under steam boiler pressure, and, in your case, it's not happening.


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Well&#8230; it's simply not working as intended is it. Keep pushing, it's not a cheap machine, it's quite a considerable amount of money and it should work as intended. Emphasise to them that steam pre-infusion should be under steam boiler pressure, and, in your case, it's not happening.


 Finally we agreed that he will send me a replacement.

I requested him to test the machine before sending it to avoid any issues.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

yahyoh said:


> Finally we agreed that he will send me a replacement.
> 
> I requested him to test the machine before sending it to avoid any issues.


 Result! And on a Sunday! 😊👍 - if you can, go and pick the machine up yourself, (and bring the old one back) if at all a possibility. This way you can see things for yourself rather than rely on someone else.


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Result! And on a Sunday! 😊👍 - if you can, go and pick the machine up yourself, (and bring the old one back) if at all a possibility. This way you can see things for yourself rather than rely on someone else.


 Sadly it is not possible as i live in Saudi Arabia and the retailer is in greek 😂

tbh the owner is a good person, he even gave me free IMS basket & IMS shower screen & tamper.

he is following up with me directly on whatsapp.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

yahyoh said:


> i live in Saudi Arabia


 Minor detail! 😂😂😂😂😂😂 - good luck!


----------



## JahLaza

Hi, just asking a little question here and please excuse the lack experience as this is my first home espresso machine! I'm wondering about the amount of energy used by the Elizabeth. I know @DavecUKhad quoted a minimal draw in his review, which I'm sure is correct and was one of the reasons I was drawn to this machine. I have it turning on at 6:30am and off at 4pm, I notice the press above it holds a lot of heat when it's on. It leads me to question its efficiency in this regard, now, I know it might be more hassle than it's worth but, would it be silly to attempt insulating it a bit or something?! Just wondering peoples thoughts on it. Not in any way questioning Dave's figures but it seems it must be using a fair bit for the amount of heat it emits. If it's normal for these machines fine, but just wondering folks?


----------



## DavecUK

@JahLaza Small boiler, best not to insulate so it can lose heat as fast as it can gain it....allows the PID to work well. With steam off, it only uses same power as 50W bulb, so can run for 15 hours less than 16p.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza said:


> If it's normal for these machines fine, but just wondering folks?


 I think Dave quotes something like 50W/h? I mean, for 9 hours, that's 450W. The kettle is like 3kW/h, so, if you use the kettle for 10 minutes, or, an electric heater for 15 minutes, that's the same? I wouldn't worry about it, honestly.


----------



## JahLaza

Hi Both. That's very good to hear. Wow, that's impressive, yeah I won't go messing with it so! I just thought I'd ask as I noticed a lot of heat from it.


----------



## 27852

I used to leave mine on for hours at a time but have gotten into the habit of turning it off and on again when I want a coffee - it is so quick to get to temp I didn't see the point of keeping it on. The most efficient use of electricity is not using it when you don't need it!


----------



## JahLaza

Kjk said:


> I used to leave mine on for hours at a time but have gotten into the habit of turning it off and on again when I want a coffee - it is so quick to get to temp I didn't see the point of keeping it on. The most efficient use of electricity is not using it when you don't need it!


 Yeah that's my thinking too but smart design may in fact enable less usage by leaving it on, think stop start in cars etc.. I've been leaving it on all day coz I may not have the time to wait for it to reheat with unexpected meetings etc so it's good to hear it's minimal usage


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Kjk said:


> I used to leave mine on for hours at a time but have gotten into the habit of turning it off and on again when I want a coffee - it is so quick to get to temp I didn't see the point of keeping it on. The most efficient use of electricity is not using it when you don't need it!


 Not necessarily (yet, I do the same as you). It depends on your usage. Just to heat up, the Elizabeth will consume approx. 250W-300W.


----------



## yahyoh

guys, do you think it is worth it to pay (400-500) EUR more for Bianca ( for the replacement),

i feel like:

1-elithabeth is easier to use for family members

2-faster heat up time & faster PID adjustment responses

3-easier to clean

4-bloom phase and steam PI

5-timed shots (easier for family members)

for Bianca

1-flow control

2-bigger boilers - takes longer to reach temp and to adjust

3- rotary pump

4-can be plumbed in

5-E61 (as positive and negative thing)

6-nicer looking


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@yahyoh - I think that's a decision only you can make. The Bianca is Elizabeth's big sister, so, in that sense, yes, makes sense to upgrade.

But, is that what you want? Looks like you know very well the advantages and disadvantages of both.


----------



## sean2earth

@yahyoh Another difference for your list is size. Bianca consumes a larger footprint & thus may require extended, possibly protracted negotiations, whereas Elizabeth may be a more acceptable compromise!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Elizabethans... Please watch the video from Lelit insider and read this post. Keep your machine clean!

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/26511-coffee-cleanliness-is-next-to-godliness/?do=embed&comment=846493&embedComment=846493&embedDo=findComment


----------



## supertom44

Happy to report I am now a member of the Elizabethans club!


----------



## DavecUK

@supertom44 Elizabethans Club....love it 😁


----------



## BerKon

Firstly a big big Thank you to @DavecUK and @MediumRoastSteam for your valuable input! It helped me a lot to take an informed decision for the PL92T.
So being in the Elizabethans Club now for only one week I couldn't be happier! (Hope that there is not a V4 version planned for July ...)

Coming from a VBM Domobar over the last 7 years I really enjoy the machine and it's a big improvement for me and make things a lot easier. No more temperature surfing, no more guessing, no more endless waiting, just beautiful espresso.

Still waiting for my Niche Zero in July so my old Macap M2D has to do the job in the meanwhile in combination with Commandante C40 I normally only use for Aeropress.

Have read through all the 63 pages (yeah that takes a while) and already applied DavecUKs recommended settings. Working flawlessly so far.

Tried to replace the steam knob for looks but I definitely cannot recommend a replacement knob made of aluminum. Even I kind of liked the industrial look it gets too hot to touch. Was not smart enough to think about that before ....










I wonder if anyone has tried the IM200NT (NanoQuartz) version of IMS shower screen? I know that MRS didn't see too much benefit with the CI 200 IM but I could imagine that the Nano coating on the NT helps with sticky puck. Can't speak for Elizabeth but in the past the Nano coating helped me to keep the shower screen clean.

Greetings from sunny Vienna!


----------



## DavecUK

Welcome to the forum, great first post.


----------



## yahyoh

replacement arrived 🤩

should i clean flush the water inside boilers?

View attachment IMG_6234.mp4


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@yahyoh - success! Yes, flush the boilers though. 500ml though the brew boiler, and maybe twice the flushing routine for the steam boiler:






make sure the boiler steam temp is as high as you can - 145C - before starting the procedure, so you get more water out. Remember, on the Elizabeth, the water always mixes with the brew boiler.


----------



## yahyoh

For some reason, the new one is not holding the temp as per LLC.

machine is set to 91c for brew boiler and 140c for steam boiler. i woke up this morning the temp was only 88-87c? and 129c for steam boiler! i did reset the LLC and ill try to reconfigure the setting again.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@yahyoh - did you switch off the standby/sleep function? Did you run low on water?


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @yahyoh - did you switch off the standby/sleep function? Did you run low on water?


 yes its off, today its better after LLC rest, but Steam temp dropping a bit still not holding at 140c, it was at like 134-135c. is it normal? i remember on the previous one it used to hold it stable at the set temp. Im already using Dave LLC settings,


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

yahyoh said:


> till not holding at 140c, it was at like 134-135c. is it normal?


 as you stem the temp will drop. But if you are not steaming, it should hover around the set point.


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> as you stem the temp will drop. But if you are not steaming, it should hover around the set point.


 i mean it's dropping without streaming ( while machine is on and without streaming), it seems the PID acting lazy? and letting the steam boiler temp drop almost 5-10C for some reason.


----------



## DavecUK

@yahyoh Could you give us your advanced settings...these things usually work or they don't...laziness doesn't come into firmware.


----------



## yahyoh

DavecUK said:


> @yahyoh Could you give us your advanced settings...these things usually work or they don't...laziness doesn't come into firmware.


 temp is almost 3 degree lower than target temp for brew boiler and 12c lower for steam boiler 😐

https://i.imgur.com/qxJl0bC.mp4

LLC setting

https://i.imgur.com/r6Lx000.mp4


----------



## DavecUK

@yahyoh All looks good as far s settings go...I've no idea...if that has warmed up fully (and sleep mode is not enabled), it doesn't look right to me.


----------



## yahyoh

DavecUK said:


> @yahyoh All looks good as far s settings go...I've no idea...if that has warmed up fully (and sleep mode is not enabled), it doesn't look right to me.


 Yes fully warmed up. 
guess im just really lucky with lelit!! Or they just have very bad QC. 
2 machines have deferent issues. Oh well.


----------



## yahyoh

WTH 😭

https://i.imgur.com/7g3SVRq.mp4

https://i.imgur.com/V2YmUDe.mp4


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

This is crazy. How unlucky can you be? Didn't the reseller check the machine over before shipping?


----------



## yahyoh

MediumRoastSteam said:


> This is crazy. How unlucky can you be? Didn't the reseller check the machine over before shipping?


 Actually the reseller offered full refund. I really like the machine it's modern and easy to use but I guess lelit still didn't get their head around good QC for such expensive machine, although im still not sure what could be the issue beside broken gicar? Bad connections? Water issue? Im using water from RO system and tds set to about 125ppm.

it's funny now I have 2 broken Elizabeths 😂

As i still didn't receive the return label from them.


----------



## JahLaza

Has the reseller offered any troubleshooting advice? Are they waiting to get some from Lelit?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

In all honesty @yahyoh , if you are OK with opening the machine up etc, I'd suggest you exchange the LCC around and see if it fixes the issue. It's quite a straight forward replacement. You can even suggest to replace the Gicar box, but that's a bit more involved. Given your reseller seems to be top notch, you could even run it past them? I doubt it's sensor etc as the issue seems to be with both temperatures - brew and steam).

it's such a shame. Anyway, good luck with your espresso machine journey, but I bet by now you must be fed up of Lelit!


----------



## yahyoh

haha things are getting worse, now the PID doesnt even kick on the element after brewing coffee!!

https://i.imgur.com/ePQMw4M.mp4

Temp way below target temp, also no matter what the steam boiler never got higher than 135c despite setting it to 145c.

https://i.imgur.com/MaKAxLT.mp4


----------



## yahyoh

i did some testing, turning off steam boiler seem allowed coffee boiler to maintain correct temp(even tho it seemed slower to recover after brewing).

Could be Steam boiler element broken? drawing too many amps tripping some safety mechanism cutting power to both elements? even the steam boiler never reaching the set temp which indicates something is wrong inside the the steam boiler.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

yahyoh said:


> Could be Steam boiler element broken


 I have no idea.


----------



## AS100

I got my new Elizabeth last week. After reading the 64 pages of the thread a big thanks to Dave and MediumRoastSteam for the tips.

For the steam knob i found this:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_vKldwf

https://a.aliexpress.com/_v468b9

Also swap out the awkward power cord for this one

https://www.amazon.es/gp/aw/d/B008BR4MYE?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


----------



## BerKon

AS100 said:


> I got my new Elizabeth last week. After reading the 64 pages of the thread a big thanks to Dave and MediumRoastSteam for the tips.
> 
> For the steam knob i found this:
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_vKldwf
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_v468b9
> 
> Also swap out the awkward power cord for this one
> 
> https://www.amazon.es/gp/aw/d/B008BR4MYE?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


 Congrats on your Elizabeth!

I exchanged the steam knob with the one from your first link (45mm). Not exactly the look I wanted but still lot better than standard one and works perfectly fine. Just not to crank the dial too much closing the steam off.

As I wrote a couple of posts before the aluminum one was too hot to touch after a while. But maybe there are some isolated ones out there. Also thought about a d-shaft knob as used on gas cooker but haven't looked into that.

Latest upgrade was IMS CM200NT screen and silicon gasket but had just a couple of shots and couldn't notice too much difference.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

BerKon said:


> IMS CM200NT screen and silicon gasket


 what did you expect to gain from this "upgrade"?


----------



## BerKon

MediumRoastSteam said:


> what did you expect to gain from this "upgrade"?


 Fair question.
Non sticky puck with my VST basket. But this didn't happen too often lately for whatever reason. So hard to judge if it makes a difference or not.

Beside that I always had IMS screens before and think they have a better water distribution which helps to reduce channeling. But this could also be just in my head haha


----------



## yahyoh

I tried to replace the LLC between the 2 machines, which totally did not fix the issue at all still the same behavior oh well. 😭


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

yahyoh said:


> which totally did not fix the issue


 😞


----------



## DavecUK

@yahyoh Can you contact [email protected]

They have simulated the issue and the owner has asked me to get you to contact them, so they can fix the problem quickly.


----------



## yahyoh

DavecUK said:


> @yahyoh Can you contact [email protected]
> 
> They have simulated the issue and the owner has asked me to get you to contact them, so they can fix the problem quickly.


 Sure, i can
although think the reseller already contacted them.


----------



## yahyoh

Hey i got this reply from lelti care @DavecUK

I'm still not sure how it is related? if the issue is the thermostats it would cut the power totally to heating element! correct? but heating element is working but the temp not stable and dropping way below set temp.






*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
*



11:17 AM (29 minutes ago)


























to me, NicoleAntimir










 

hello Yahia,









thanks for your mail and for using our coffee machine.

We kindly ask you to set the machine to the temperature of 135°.

We noted that you have already setted it to the value ES0 and we suggest you to use it in this way.

You should note that the machine will work perfectly without any thermical jumps.

It would be necessary to replace the 2 thermostats of the steam boiler MC521 (we highlighted these sparts in the draw in attachment).

Can you pls share more details where you bought the product? As it is under warranty, we suggest you to contact your reseller.

We remain at your complete disposal,

kind regards


----------



## DavecUK

yahyoh said:


> Hey i got this reply from lelti care @DavecUK
> 
> I'm still not sure how it is related? if the issue is the thermostats it would cut the power totally to heating element! correct? but heating element is working but the temp not stable and dropping way below set temp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  


 It's not quite how it works.. the thermal probes can take readings very fast...when it shows you a low reading it may then send the computer a high reading.The low reading, or high reading may be false, or even both. The system will do it's best to turn heating elements on/off as required and may not even be showing you every value the PID sees.


----------



## JahLaza

Hi folks, I noticed steam is only jetting from one of the steam holes of the steam wand on my Elizabeth. I removed the tip, it's clean, clear, I ran steam through the plastic steam tube with tip removed, doesn't seem to be any issue. I wiggled a toothpick around the inside of the tube, no issues, replaced the tip, still only through one hole. Set point is 135 degrees, not that that would have any effect but just listing! Anyone experience this/any ideas?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza said:


> Hi folks, I noticed steam is only jetting from one of the steam holes of the steam wand on my Elizabeth. I removed the tip, it's clean, clear, I ran steam through the plastic steam tube with tip removed, doesn't seem to be any issue. I wiggled a toothpick around the inside of the tube, no issues, replaced the tip, still only through one hole. Set point is 135 degrees, not that that would have any effect but just listing! Anyone experience this/any ideas?


 Are you sure? It doesn't make sense, unless:

- one of the holes are blocked; (you said they were not, but have you taken the steam tip off and put a needle through or a ping on each?

- the teflon sleeve is cut at an angle, it's going all the way down to the that steam only comes out of one hole, the hole the aperture of the cut is directed at.

- you have bias steam? 🤣😉

To make sure the holes are not blocked, you could remove the steam tip and blow air through it, and check whether the air is being vented out from one or both holes.

More importantly... This wasn't an issue right at the start. So, how did you notice it? Have you changed anything?


----------



## JahLaza

You were right, the steam was biased😂😂 so had a chat, two hole jet now! But will I need to have a new chat every time I refill the water reservoir?😢😂 ok joking aside, I hadn't changed anything except remove and clean the tip a few times. So it is the tubing, it runs down to the very tip and as it's at an angle it is 'unintentionally' biased!! If I loosen the tip (tube is not pushing against the end of the tip) I get dual steam! So, I might just cut a little off. Will investigate a little more next time before jumping to the forum! Thanks though @MediumRoastSteam


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza said:


> I might just cut a little off.


 Don't do it. If it was working originally, there's no reason for it to stop working, unless the tubing is growing :LOL

So try to figure out what could have possibly changed and go from there.

The teflon sleeve is secured at the top of the valve (not sure exactly how), and then kept in place by an o-ring inside the steam tip. The o-ring will effectively seal and prevent the steam backflow travelling up the steam wand outside of the teflon sleeve, thus making it insulated.


----------



## JahLaza

Didn't do it. I'm not even sure it was firing through both at the start, I assume it was or I would have noticed. Tbh I haven't done anything with that except remove the tip a couple of times. Unless I pulled the Teflon out a bit? I say that because the length of the tubing is slightly longer than the length of the tip, so the tubing gets pushed back when the tip is screwed in place. The tubing appears well positioned in place however so unlikely I pulled it out any with the tip removal. Have had another look and can't see anything. It's like the open side of the tubing is facing one hole and the back of it facing the other as it is pushed down to the end of the tip


----------



## yahyoh

DavecUK said:


> It's not quite how it works.. the thermal probes can take readings very fast...when it shows you a low reading it may then send the computer a high reading.The low reading, or high reading may be false, or even both. The system will do it's best to turn heating elements on/off as required and may not even be showing you every value the PID sees.


 Well, I agreed with reseller to return the Elizabeths and get Bianca.

Hopefully it won't arrive broken *finger crossed*


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

yahyoh said:


> Well, I agreed with reseller to return the Elizabeths and get Bianca.
> 
> Hopefully it won't arrive broken *finger crossed*


 As they say, third time lucky! 👍🤞


----------



## DavecUK

yahyoh said:


> Well, I agreed with reseller to return the Elizabeths and get Bianca.
> 
> Hopefully it won't arrive broken *finger crossed*


 Bianca is a beautiful machine and one of the quietest rotary pump machines out there.


----------



## RobDGio

Hello, looking to pick the brains of the collective hive mind! hoping to get people's thoughts and advice on the two types of pre infusion on the Elizabeth. I've not really used them much as seem to get better results without preinfusion, or at least I've found it easier to keep things consistent without PI so far

my questions are, what is the in-cup difference supposed to be with the bloom vs steam preinfusion and would one work better for a different type of drink than another. Ultimately I imagine it comes down to personal taste preference but wondered if there were any "rules of thumb"?

on reading some of the other posts in here too it seems that I need to consider how long it takes for the headspace in my portafilter to fill with regards to how long the initial pump run should last&#8230;..something to do with not sending over heated water to the brew boiler&#8230;.? I'm a bit lost with how all that works so would appreciate some advice on that.

also from what I gather I should be grinding fine enough that I shouldn't be getting drips into the cup during the PI phase but only beading on the underside of the portafilter. Drips only on the second pump phase. Is this correct?

just wondering how others are using their PI if at all.

Thanks in advance. sorry for the long post


----------



## 27852

Hello, there are two articles that I have found particularly useful:

https://towardsdatascience.com/espresso-pre-wetting-ecd9a895ed5f

https://towardsdatascience.com/pre-infusion-for-espresso-visual-cues-for-better-espresso-c23b2542152e

The first question to ask is why do we pre-infuse? The answer is that it acts as a mitigant to deficiencies in puck preparation to help achieve a more even extraction. A fully water saturated puck will channel less easily than a dry one because all the pathways water can take have been established, if you start forcing water through a dry puck, the water will find and flow through the easiest path it can take to the bottom of the portafilter - eg a channel. It also buys you some time before a puck will fracture, so is particularly useful when trying to pull a finely ground lighter roasted coffee at a more traditional ratio.

Second, on to the style of preinfusion. The steam preinfusion mimics a traditional lever by running the pump to fill the brew chamber and then uses the line pressure from the service boiler (there is some clever piping connecting the service and brew boilers) to push on the puck at approx 2bar. This pressure is valuable as if you read the 1st article it explains that puck saturation follows capillary action - it basically speeds up the process of getting a fully saturated puck. The same mechanics are at play if you were to pre wet the puck (run the pump with no line pressure) but you will get there slower and lose some temperature along the way. Therefore, in my estimation the bloom style PI is of limited use - I can control more using the steam PI and my goal is for the puck to be very saturated by the time the pump cycles on for the main brew.

Regarding headspace, it is important to measure it for accurate fills of the brew chamber. You don't want much of the superheated service boiler water in your brew boiler. The machine could think it is overheating and trip its temperature "fuse".

With respect to how much stuff can land in the cup during PI, some Decent owners using the very popular "Londinium" profile get 3-7g in during PI before the pump cycles. If you read the 2nd linked article, the author correlates better quality shots when preinfusion is held for 3x the time it takes for the bottom of the basket to be fully saturated. He also measures "time to get 10g in the cup" which indicates a decent amount of output during PI.

Of course, these are just suggestions/opinions and aren't intended on dictating how you like to use your machine or make coffee. I like lighter roasts, use precision baskets, and like to make espresso at more traditional ratios (anything too long and watery and I'd rather have it as a filter). As a result I have to grind considerably finer and see real benefit in using the steam preinfusion.

Hopefully you find this helpful!


----------



## RobDGio

@Kjk thanks for the detailed response and the link to the articles. I will give them a read tonight.

just to clarify with regards to measuring time to fill headspace, is this the time from pump starting to seeing the pressure gauge start to go up (as in the headspace needs to fill before pressure will increase)? And would I want to set my PI initial pump run to that time and under. Or is this more to do with how long the pause phase goes for? Sorry if this should be an obvious thing for espresso machine users

thanks


----------



## 27852

RobDGio said:


> @Kjk thanks for the detailed response and the link to the articles. I will give them a read tonight.
> 
> just to clarify with regards to measuring time to fill headspace, is this the time from pump starting to seeing the pressure gauge start to go up (as in the headspace needs to fill before pressure will increase)? And would I want to set my PI initial pump run to that time and under. Or is this more to do with how long the pause phase goes for? Sorry if this should be an obvious thing for espresso machine users
> 
> thanks


 Yup so initial pump run is the fill with the objective to take up the headspace - these are the settings accessed via the advanced PID settings (hold down + and - buttons when turning on the machine), these are the BLS1/2 and BLP1/2 figures (S steam P pump and 1 and 2 for the respective button).

An easy way to figure the brew chamber fill time is to run a shot with preinfusion set to 0 and take a video of the shot timer and manometer. Note the time taken for the manometer to edge up to 2bar and take the nearest second under.

The general PID Settings will let you program the total preinfusion time before the pump cycles to full flow. For example if you program 5s initial pump run and 15s PI for button one, then you will get 5s IPR and 10s of pump off (or steam pressure, depending on if you have the machine running in eco mode). At the end of that, 15s in total have passed and the pump will give you full flow to whatever your OPV is set to. Put another way, the pump off time is the difference between total PI time and the IPR time.


----------



## postexitus

I will be (hopefully) going away for 2 months of summer. How should I prepare my Elizabeth for this period of disuse? Is just pulling all the water from hot water tap enough?


----------



## DavecUK

postexitus said:


> I will be (hopefully) going away for 2 months of summer. How should I prepare my Elizabeth for this period of disuse? Is just pulling all the water from hot water tap enough?


 Yes, that should be enough use the process where I refer to the hot water maximiser system. once your back, refill it, let it heat up both boilers...pull all the water through again...let it refill once more and you should be good to go.

https://sway.office.com/qoXHjmMAg4DeFX8b


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@postexitus - On top of what @DavecUK said, I think it would also be a good idea to purge approx. 400ml from the group when you are back.

When you carry out the procedure to drain the steam boiler, make sure you turn the machine off as soon as the hot water tap stops dispensing. You don't want to refill it again. You want to do that once you are back 🙂


----------



## DavecUK

@MediumRoastSteam Good point..It can't hurt even though the water all comes from the brew boiler anyway...cleans up that little area below.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> @MediumRoastSteam Good point..It can't hurt even though the water all comes from the brew boiler anyway...cleans up that little area below.


 Ha! Yeah! Always forget! Good point! 👍


----------



## Mike Graham

Hi.

What tamper would anyone recommend. Had the machine a few weeks, and the plastic one has run its cause!!

Don't mind spending a bit. Torr seem to get recommended, but I can' find anywhere to buy them.

Thanks


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Mike Graham said:


> Hi.
> 
> What tamper would anyone recommend. Had the machine a few weeks, and the plastic one has run its cause!!
> 
> Don't mind spending a bit. Torr seem to get recommended, but I can' find anywhere to buy them.
> 
> Thanks


 You can go as expensive as you want... 🙂

I have a rhinowares (because I bought second hand and that's what was available)... It's a 58.4mm.

Motta competition range are good, and cost like £30 or thereabouts. BB and BlackCatCoffee sells them.

58.5mm will also do the trick, if you choose to buy the Lelit branded one.


----------



## Mike Graham

Thanks Motta ordered!! Will let you know how I get on.

I'll find something else to blame if I keep on making poor shots!


----------



## Mike Graham

Tamper is spot on thanks. Allowing for much more consistency.

I'm wondering about the portafilter now, just because it has two spouts (I'm sure there's a technical term). Not an issue when I'm making americanos etc, but for espresso, it is pain to have to transfer from one shot to another. I know I can get wider vessels, but presumably it is better to better to drink espresso out of a small espresso vessel? Sorry, for asking obvious questions, but I'm new to all this.

Finally, I'm starting to wonder if I need to get a new grinder. Which I kind of thought would be the case when I bought the Elizabeth. I have the Rocky Rancillo. Which I am sure is a decent grinder, but I want to be able to switch to a courser grind for aeropress coffee, especially when I am back in the office a few days a week. I'm also not sure the Rocky can quite manage to grind fine enough for some beans (not all). Depends on the bean of course. Plus, is I go down the VST route, it sounds like you need a finer grind for that? The Rocky also retains the grind from the previous grind, which is not exactly ideal when using a great machine like the Elizabeth!!

I'll do some research on the grinders, unless someone can recommend an ideal grinder for the Elizabeth. Cost not an issue, as long as it is proportionate to the Elizabeth!


----------



## RobDGio

The double spout portafilter should still allow you to pour into a shot glass. Just need the glass high up close to the spouts and should pour into one shot glass easy enough

sounds like you are describing a low retention single dose grinder designed to allow regular changing of beans. Depending on budget that's basically the Niche or the Solo (sub £500)


----------



## Mike Graham

To be honest I will probably keep the Rocky anyway and use for Aeropress/pour over so the regular changing of beans isn't so much of an issue. Will be a nice to have I guess, just a case of what I can get for the money. I will take a look at both of those options for a starter, and the one that Dave uses for his video content.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Mike Graham said:


> To be honest I will probably keep the Rocky anyway and use for Aeropress/pour over


 You'll find that if you get the Niche I only used the Solo once - You'll want to use your Rocky as a door stopper rather than a pour over grinder. 🙂


----------



## Mike Graham

It's pretty big and heavy so will make a good door stop. I suppose the only reason to use would be if I prefer flat burrs for aeropress coffee and or if I can tell the difference, which is doubtful!

Niche waiting list is till Sept, which I can live with if it is the right grinder for me, which it looks like it may well be. I like the look of it and it looks compact, and obviously does a great job, and can switch to different grinds easily enough.


----------



## Mike Graham

Hi. I finally made Dave's changes to the advanced settings yesterday. I would have done earlier, but didn't realise that the preinfusion could and needed to be adjusted.

I'm struggling to understand the temperature now, as since changing to TR1 the temp fluctuates. It went up to 113 degrees I think and then started dropping back down to 93. Do I wait till it drops back, cause previously when the temp always said 93, I just went ahead and pulled a shot. Where as now, I'm confused as to what is going on. Same goes for when you warm up shot glasses with water, and the temp now drops. . Appreciate there may be another thread explaining this. How can the temp of the boiler be greater than 100 degrees anyway?!! Is this anything to do with the Ec setting being 10? That means the boiler is always 10 degrees warner than the target temp to allow for cooling before infusion?

Plus side is coffee was much better with the 3 sec pre infusion!! Even though it was overextracted!


----------



## RobDGio

I had the same confusion. So the boiler heats up to 120 I believe on initial start up and settles to what ever temp is set to. There is a chance you have also changed the display to show ACTUAL temp as opposed to PROGRAMMED temp. If you press and hold the + button it will show brew boiler temp, then quickly press and hold again to view steam boiler temp. If you have it set to display the actual brew boiler temp the first press and hold will appear to have done nothing as it's already showing actual boiler temp. I suspect you originally had it to display programmed temp so will always show your set temp of I assume 93


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Mike Graham said:


> Hi. I finally made Dave's changes to the advanced settings yesterday. I would have done earlier, but didn't realise that the preinfusion could and needed to be adjusted.
> 
> I'm struggling to understand the temperature now, as since changing to TR1 the temp fluctuates. It went up to 113 degrees I think and then started dropping back down to 93. Do I wait till it drops back, cause previously when the temp always said 93, I just went ahead and pulled a shot. Where as now, I'm confused as to what is going on. Same goes for when you warm up shot glasses with water, and the temp now drops. . Appreciate there may be another thread explaining this. How can the temp of the boiler be greater than 100 degrees anyway?!! Is this anything to do with the Ec setting being 10? That means the boiler is always 10 degrees warner than the target temp to allow for cooling before infusion?
> 
> Plus side is coffee was much better with the 3 sec pre infusion!! Even though it was overextracted!


 Mike, there are some misconceptions on your part here. The temp doesn't fluctuate as a result of you changing the TR setting. It always fluctuated. The difference is that you now see the fluctuation. Before you were only seeing the set temperature, which is somewhat unhelpful and meaningless.

The reason the temperature fluctuates when pulling a shot, or when warming up glasses is that the temp sensor is very near the inlet of cold water at the top of the brew boiler. The group and the rest of the water in the boiler should have enough thermal capacity to handle that, but what you see is not necessary what the temperature is throughout the system. The exact same happens on machines with a boiler twice or three times as big, but the recovery is much faster as there's more thermal mass (more water in the boiler), so the recovery is much faster.

The Ec setting = 10 is the brew boiler temperature offset. That's the difference between the temperature of the water inside the boiler and what you'd get in the puck. This has been tested by Lelit and DaveCUK with the appropriate device to measure temperature in the group.

The Elizabeth is programmed to shoot up the temperature during warm up, to around 120C (130C inside the boiler when you consider the offset). This speeds up heating up. You should wait until the machine shows your preset temperature in order to pull a shot.

I recommend you read (and watch) the Elizabeth review again, with time, as most of the above is explained in great detail. There's a lot of material covered there and a lot to take on. I read it (and watch it) a few times myself.

So, the rule of thumb is: Before you brew, always make sure the display shows the temperature you have set it to.



RobDGio said:


> There is a chance you have also changed the display to show ACTUAL temp as opposed to PROGRAMMED temp.


 That's what TR = 1 do. That's what Mike refers to "as since changing to TR1 the temp fluctuates.", I believe.


----------



## Mike Graham

Thanks, that all makes sense. Should start pouring more consistent shots now!!


----------



## andye2004

Hey guys, I'm a bit new around here, but having read loads on the Elizabeth I can't find anything anywhere that gives an idea on boiler recovery time after pulling a shot. I wonder if any of you kind gentlemen would be able to say?

Normally we'd be pulling two shots and frothing milk for both but occasionally would need to be pulling 4 and very occasionally maybe 6. There is a Lelit Insider vid on ewetoob that shows a guy pulling 6 shots but it's impossible to know if all are up to temp.

Thanks in advance, Andy!


----------



## DavecUK

@andye2004 Welcome to the forum. Boiler recovery time is about 20 seconds, after the shot finishes. your sort of usage wouldn't be a problem.


----------



## andye2004

DavecUK said:


> @andye2004 Welcome to the forum. Boiler recovery time is about 20 seconds, after the shot finishes. your sort of usage wouldn't be a problem.


 Thanks for the welcome and more so for the info, was really the last thing holding me back on this. I guess I'm going to have to dig out the wallet now


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## Mike Graham

Morning everyone. I'm looking into making Macchiato put it is difficult to froth small quantities of milk? I read somewhere you could buy different nozzles that in effect adjust the pressure to give you a bit more control. Can you recommend one for this machine? thanks

Managed to I think dial in my first really decent shot yesterday, which was fun. Unfortunately I only had 16g left this morning of the same coffee so couldn't see if I could replicate it!! todays shot was horrible which was fun!!

Next batch of coffee is lighter roast, so will have to try again! Guess at early stages it makes more sense to buy the same coffee, if you like it, and try and replicate it, rather than changing beans all the time.

This hobby is fun! Which I'd done it sooner!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Mike Graham said:


> Morning everyone. I'm looking into making Macchiato put it is difficult to froth small quantities of milk? I read somewhere you could buy different nozzles that in effect adjust the pressure to give you a bit more control. Can you recommend one for this machine? thanks


 The easiest thing to do is to block one whole of the steam tip with a toothpick or something. Personally... Steaming small quantities of milk will always be a challenging prospect, no matter what.

I believe the Expobar one hole steam tip will work. Will it make any difference? I don't know.

The solution is to learn how to tame the beast. You don't need to open the steam tap fully, for example. Perfection will come with practice. A lot of it.


----------



## Nima

Has anyone adjusted their pump pressure ? Mine is always around 11 bars and I am wondering if I should bring it down to 9.

Thank you for your input.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Nima said:


> Has anyone adjusted their pump pressure ?


 Yes. Mine was just over 10 bar. I have now adjusted to just below 10. 🙂

Very easy.


----------



## simplyme

I need to transport my Liz to my new house, 35 miles away. What is the best process ?


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## DavecUK

simplyme said:


> I need to transport my Liz to my new house, 35 miles away. What is the best process ?


 Empty the plastic water tank and drip tray....pick it up, place it upright in a car (towel around it and up against the front seat) and do the reverse when you arrive.

P.S. I don't recommend any of the espresso machine pheromone sprays 😉


----------



## simplyme

DavecUK said:


> Empty the plastic water tank and drip tray....pick it up, place it upright in a car (towel arround it and up against the front seat) and do the reverse when you arrive.


 Thanks Dave, no need to drain the boiler?


----------



## DavecUK

@simplyme Nah, you'll be good without having to do all that.


----------



## simplyme

Thanks mate


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

simplyme said:


> Thanks mate


 I took my Elizabeth to Bella Barista once - that's like 80 miles one way. As per Dave's comments, just make sure the tank is empty and all is good. There's no need to drain the boilers.

If you want to be extra careful, remove the drip tray, or at least make sure it's fastened and secure in a place where it can't wobble about.

Make sure the machine is padded well around it and doesn't move due to inertia. The best thing would be to use the original box and packaging.


----------



## bk85

I keep getting frequent leaks from between the filter holder and the group head, both with an original basket/portafilter as with a IMS basket. Only way to prevent this is to lock the portafilter in really tight, almost moving the whole machine. When I expect the group gasket it has a noticeable groove (see image behind link). Would it help if I replace the group gasket?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9pi9emv7v2lyb5a/IMG_5661 copy.JPG?dl=0


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@bk85 - Replace the gasket. That looks like you've been over tightening.

When you do that, make sure that YOU DO NOT over tighten the shower screen. It needs to be very gently tight, to the point that the shower screen doesn't spin on the dispersion plate.

If you over tighten it, water will get behind the group gasket and the dispersion plate will form a seal, not allowing the water to escape, pushing the gasket out and forcing you to lock in harder and harder.

I've posted about this on this thread a while ago, and also told Lelit. Mine came very tight from the factory.

I had mine from 1 year, and the gasket is good as new.


----------



## bk85

@MediumRoastSteam Thank you for your reply. Ok, I've made sure not over tightening the screen from the beginning (I read that in this topic). But if I don't tight it enough, it will leak like crazy. Maybe it's because my shower screen came overtightened from the factory. I'll order a new gasket and hopefully that will solve this issue.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@bk85 - get a silicone one so you won't need to change again for a long while. E61, 8mm thick.

Edit: Initially I thought that contributed to me getting stuck pucks, but, after trying it again - after experimenting with the original rubber gasket for a while - I found the silicone gasket does not influence anything on that regard.


----------



## bk85

@MediumRoastSteam I just installed a new 8mm E61 silicon group gasket, thanks for specifying which one. It was quite an easy task. The leaking seems to be solved.

I did notice that the old rubber gasket was already pretty dried out. Surprising because the machine is from December last year. (See last photo)


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@bk85 - Looking good. Clearly illustrates that the dispersion plate was fasten too tight against the gasket!


----------



## delta76

New joiner here - and new buyer of Elizabeth. My Elizabeth will only come next week, to my sadness (thank you DHL). One stupid question: how do you refill the water tank? Do you take it out and refill with the water tap (seems like a lot of work), or do you use some water sprout to fill it?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

delta76 said:


> New joiner here - and new buyer of Elizabeth. My Elizabeth will only come next week, to my sadness (thank you DHL). One stupid question: how do you refill the water tank? Do you take it out and refill with the water tap (seems like a lot of work), or do you use some water sprout to fill it?


 Welcome. I use a funnel and pour water from a bottle.


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## BerKon

delta76 said:


> New joiner here - and new buyer of Elizabeth. My Elizabeth will only come next week, to my sadness (thank you DHL). One stupid question: how do you refill the water tank? Do you take it out and refill with the water tap (seems like a lot of work), or do you use some water sprout to fill it?


 Have this tank for my Lizzy from where I purchased my machine. Makes refill super easy and no funnel needed.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@BerKon - that's cool! Is that the new tank which comes with the Lizzy or is this some sort of aftermarket tank? Or is it Lelit branded?


----------



## BerKon

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @BerKon - that's cool! Is that the new tank which comes with the Lizzy or is this some sort of aftermarket tank? Or is it Lelit branded?


 Yes, it cool and works like a charm. It's an aftermarket part they sell, so no original Lelit. I think they just cut the original Lizzy tank and stabilize with the connector you see. Advantages is in any case that there is no difference to the original as the magnet is in there as well.

If somebody is interested I think they send to any country for very reasonable price. something around 9 EUR I think. I'm not affiliated with this shop, just bought my machine there.

https://espressokultur.at/produkt/lelit-wassertank-mit-sensor-fuer-pl60-pl82-pl91-und-pl92/


----------



## 27852

BerKon said:


> Have this tank for my Lizzy from where I purchased my machine. Makes refill super easy and no funnel needed.


 That is good, I take my tank out to fill direct from the Osmio. I'm always pinching my fingers holding the side and then end up putting one in the hole at the top - the design above is far better!


----------



## delta76

I'm officially new member of Elizabeth club! (Apologies, I am yet to clean/tidy thing up, just tried to cram things into place)

To my discontent, two other packages (the grinder and accessories) will not arrive until who-know-when (thank you again DHL), so I will need to use the grinder from my old Barista Pro (the main reason I wanted to upgrade). But well, better than nothing.

My first impression is that the water tank filling will be a chore, not easily accessible like the Barista Pro. I ordered a gooseneck kettle which is on the way. The lack of tamper is a bit bumper (I have that covered fortunately), the lack of milk jug is not the best but I guess it's pretty standard (except for Sage which includes it by default).

Other than that, the look and finish of Elizabeth is excellent. It definitely looks better in real life than in picture.

My questions (apologies if they have been answered here. I have been going through the pages but far from complete and I might have mixed things up, so just to be clear)



I suppose I will need to follow Dave's guide first thing? (changing LCC settings etc.)


Do I need to use the water filter? I am living in Stockholm which pretty soft water, but it seems that you should avoid descaling as much as possible (= should only perform by a professional), so it's important to avoid scale build up?


Will have a meeting very soon, but I'm eager to pull my first shots!


----------



## DavecUK

@delta76 Looks great, be even better when the rest of the stuff comes. Welcome to the forum.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@delta76 - welcome to the club!

it's advisable you follow Dave's parameters for the PID. The original ones are very aggressive. Also, it's worthwhile reading the whole review, including the advanced settings and the maintenance section. Read it and watch it a couple of times, at leisure.

do you need to use the water filter? That's a decision you'll have to make. Personally, I don't, as I know exactly the composition of my water. I know I would never need to descale because there are no minerals in it which will cause it.

even with soft water, the steam boiler will eventually scale, as steam water is pure and the minerals are left behind. Because of this, it's advisable you flush the steam boiler periodically (one a month maybe), again, by following Dave's maintenance guide.

if you do have to descale, again, follow Dave's maintenance guide. It does not need to be done by a professional.


----------



## delta76

Just turned it on, followed Dave's guide to set the settings. It was easy enough but coming from Sage I wish it could be more intuitive. (maybe they did that intentionally, so only people who really knows what they are doing, can change the settings. Fortunately for me at least, I do not know/do not have to know what I was doing, and I have @DavecUK and @MediumRoastSteam to thank for!)

I'm impressed with the quietness. Much quieter than the Sage, and most noise is from the drip tray (seems to be an easy fix). I pulled a shot with an empty portafilter, as I usually did with Sage. The portafilter is then really hot. It means my Sage is normally way colder than it should. Grind, tamp, and pull a first shot (coming from 54mm to 58mm, and a real tamper is really nice. No more "nasty coffee ground everywhere")

It was very quick, like first drop after 3s, and I stop after 15s, drawing about 50gr. Definitely under extracted, and I will need to grind finer next time. But to my surprise, the espresso was drinkable. Decent even. Most of my shots from Sage is terribly sour even with "proper time brew" (30s range - which is now clear to me, the temp is way lower than it should). I usually drink latte so it's kind of OK, but I have always wanted more.

I'm not very impressed with the steam wand yet (Did not dare to go full power), but a big plus from it is that it's no burn one. Not that I usually burn myself, but it is much easier to clean. The sage's one can become nasty easily if I don't have a wet cloth readily available after frothing my milk. Now I can relax and take it easy.

In short, I'm pretty impressed with my limited time playing with it. I know upgrading from the Sage would be a difference. I didn't expect this level of difference. The workflow, the brewing experience, the espresso quality are huge steps up.

In a last couple of days while waiting for the machines to arrive I was wondering myself if upgrading was a right move. I could still use the Barista Pro. It's not the best, but it does the job, fits in my kitchen counter nicely. Upgrading is like spending almost x3 the money, while I might not get the x3 quality in return. But now I'm totally convinced!


----------



## DavecUK

@delta76 Moving from the Barista Pro would be a huge difference in, getting the right temperatures and steaming power.


----------



## Nadavar

delta76 said:


> Just turned it on, followed Dave's guide to set the settings. It was easy enough but coming from Sage I wish it could be more intuitive. (maybe they did that intentionally, so only people who really knows what they are doing, can change the settings. Fortunately for me at least, I do not know/do not have to know what I was doing, and I have @DavecUK and @MediumRoastSteam to thank for!)
> 
> I'm impressed with the quietness. Much quieter than the Sage, and most noise is from the drip tray (seems to be an easy fix). I pulled a shot with an empty portafilter, as I usually did with Sage. The portafilter is then really hot. It means my Sage is normally way colder than it should. Grind, tamp, and pull a first shot (coming from 54mm to 58mm, and a real tamper is really nice. No more "nasty coffee ground everywhere")
> 
> It was very quick, like first drop after 3s, and I stop after 15s, drawing about 50gr. Definitely under extracted, and I will need to grind finer next time. But to my surprise, the espresso was drinkable. Decent even. Most of my shots from Sage is terribly sour even with "proper time brew" (30s range - which is now clear to me, the temp is way lower than it should). I usually drink latte so it's kind of OK, but I have always wanted more.
> 
> I'm not very impressed with the steam wand yet (Did not dare to go full power), but a big plus from it is that it's no burn one. Not that I usually burn myself, but it is much easier to clean. The sage's one can become nasty easily if I don't have a wet cloth readily available after frothing my milk. Now I can relax and take it easy.
> 
> In short, I'm pretty impressed with my limited time playing with it. I know upgrading from the Sage would be a difference. I didn't expect this level of difference. The workflow, the brewing experience, the espresso quality are huge steps up.
> 
> In a last couple of days while waiting for the machines to arrive I was wondering myself if upgrading was a right move. I could still use the Barista Pro. It's not the best, but it does the job, fits in my kitchen counter nicely. Upgrading is like spending almost x3 the money, while I might not get the x3 quality in return. But now I'm totally convinced!


 Wow, happy to read your last sentence.

Set to recieve my Elizabeth in a few days also upgrading from sage.

Had the same wanders is it would be worth it, and also has a hard decision between this and the mara x.

How I enjoy it as well


----------



## delta76

Finally, my proper setup.

I'm quite impressed with how Elizabeth handles the bad shots. I mean judging from the espresso flow, it's definitely a disaster - under/over extracted, and/or heavily channeling. But the espresso itself never tastes as bad as it did with the Barista Pro. At worst, still tolerable, and mostly drinkable.

I wonder how much accurate temp (and pressure handling) could affect the output compared to the grind settings.

I'm happy now. Waiting for my gooseneck kettle to arrive to I can fill the tank easier, and I will be "complete"


----------



## delta76

Nadavar said:


> Wow, happy to read your last sentence.
> 
> Set to recieve my Elizabeth in a few days also upgrading from sage.
> 
> Had the same wanders is it would be worth it, and also has a hard decision between this and the mara x.
> 
> How I enjoy it as well


 Me too, it's close one between Mara X and Elizabeth. Bianca is well over my budget, even though I think it combines the best from Mara X and Elizabeth.

Only after using the Elizabeth, I realized it was the right choice. The machine is quite warm during operations. Not exactly hot, but can be quite uncomfortable for a long time. Mara X with the E61 head which is hot and exposed could be an issue for me, especially within tight space and with kids.


----------



## delta76

Wet pluck - I am using 18-19gr of coffee, IMS Competition 18-22gr. The espresso is good, but the puck is wet and when I knock it out, it is not in the cylinder shape. Too fine? Too little coffee in the basket?


----------



## DavecUK

@delta76 Try leaving the portafilter out of the machine for 15 seconds before you knock it out....some coffees do give wetter pucks than others, nothing to be concerned about.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

delta76 said:


> Wet pluck - I am using 18-19gr of coffee, IMS Competition 18-22gr


 Add 20g of coffee to that basket. You are dosing too little.

And as Dave says, if it tastes good, nothing to worry about. You are potentially having to grind a lot finer if you are underdosing the basket like that.


----------



## delta76

DavecUK said:


> @delta76 Try leaving the portafilter out of the machine for 15 seconds before you knock it out....some coffees do give wetter pucks than others, nothing to be concerned about.


 yes I leave it for about 1m (steaming milk and making lattes first)



MediumRoastSteam said:


> Add 20g of coffee to that basket. You are dosing too little.
> 
> And as Dave says, if it tastes good, nothing to worry about. You are potentially having to grind a lot finer if you are underdosing the basket like that.


 will try next time. yeah I'm not quite worried, just want to make sure if there are improvements that can be made.

Thank you both.


----------



## bk85

delta76 said:


> yes I leave it for about 1m (steaming milk and making lattes first)
> 
> will try next time. yeah I'm not quite worried, just want to make sure if there are improvements that can be made.
> 
> Thank you both.


 If you keep having troubles, you could also consider a smaller basket. A larger amount of coffee in general is harder to extract well. But if you keep using this basket I agree with upping your dose and grinding slightly coarser. This might give you a better puck (although taste is leading of course).

---
I also wanted to share a small update about my recent group gasket replacement from original to an 8mm silicon gasket. I wasn't expecting this, but it really has made a huge difference in user experience. From the start of using my brand new Elizabeth it took quite some force to lock the portafilter in, enough to not leak (I even shared my concerns about that in this topic back then). I'm not sure if this is because I got a machine with a badly installed gasket (maybe too tight as @MediumRoastSteam suggested), or because of the group head.

Now with the new gasket it locks in very smoothly. So easily actually, that I was first a bit worried if it would seal at 6 o'clock (because i could easily push it further to 5). But it has a perfect seal, and the smoother/lighter operation makes the whole experience much more enjoyable. I wish I had replaced it from the start.

So if anyone struggles with a portafilter that needs considerable force to lock in, go replace your gasket. It's a cheap and super easy replacement.


----------



## JahLaza

bk85 said:


> If you keep having troubles, you could also consider a smaller basket. A larger amount of coffee in general is harder to extract well. But if you keep using this basket I agree with upping your dose and grinding slightly coarser. This might give you a better puck (although taste is leading of course).
> 
> ---
> I also wanted to share a small update about my recent group gasket replacement from original to an 8mm silicon gasket. I wasn't expecting this, but it really has made a huge difference in user experience. From the start of using my brand new Elizabeth it took quite some force to lock the portafilter in, enough to not leak (I even shared my concerns about that in this topic back then). I'm not sure if this is because I got a machine with a badly installed gasket (maybe too tight as @MediumRoastSteam suggested), or because of the group head.
> 
> Now with the new gasket it locks in very smoothly. So easily actually, that I was first a bit worried if it would seal at 6 o'clock (because i could easily push it further to 5). But it has a perfect seal, and the smoother/lighter operation makes the whole experience much more enjoyable. I wish I had replaced it from the start.
> 
> So if anyone struggles with a portafilter that needs considerable force to lock in, go replace your gasket. It's a cheap and super easy replacement.


 I experienced the same from new but turns out it was really down to the fact that the shower screen was too tight. Only after a few weeks of use did I realise this. @MediumRoastSteam has commented pretty often on the forum about this and helped me diagnose it. It really only takes a hand tighten after cleaning/removing the shower screen and I find I need to then loosen it some. I bought a silicone gasket to have as spare but haven't needed to change yet as the shower screen adjustment means the machine works fine with no leaks or over tightening of the portafilter - locks in at about 6:30 even though I'd worn a track in the original gasket before realising this.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

When the shower screen / dispersion block is too tight against the gasket, seems like water somehow gets behind the gasket, but then can't escape. Sounds crazy, but it's a fact, to the point you can squeeze the gasket and water squirts out, or, if you undo he shower screen immediately afterwards, you get a "pop" and water comes out. I actually videoed the last part and sent to Lelit, and they sent me a few bits and bobs to try out to see if it fixed it. There was nothing wrong, all it needed was a not so tight shower screen/dispersion block.


----------



## delta76

Another seemingly stupid question: how do you make 2 single espresso with a bottomless portafilter? I would want to use my BP, as it's just great to look at (not to mention much better to diagnose my shots). But I usually need to do 2 single shots to make lattes for me and my wife, and wonder how could I divide it. I saw someone switches cups in between, which looks like less than optimal (accuracy, potential mess, different exaction between the first and second cup). Sounds like an espresso cup with sprout is my best bet, but I wonder if there is a better way?

Thanks


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Sarcastic answer:

@delta76 - This problem has been solved a long time ago: They have invented the double spouted portafilter.

👍

Honest answer: There isn't.


----------



## delta76

Have anyone tried the lelit red wood tamper (58.55mm)? I think it's included with Mara X, but not lelit. I'm using Motta 58.4, it's good but it does not perfectly fit into the basket (no idea why I bought it, probably because the 58.5mm version was out of stock?). it's pretty cheap here (~33e, less than 30 pounds). the handle looks ugly but it is not really important to me.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@delta76 - I very much doubt you'd get much advantage/difference between a 58.4m and a 58.55mm. Yes, one is wider and therefore will be closest to the wall of the basket... But... Does it matter? I don't think so.


----------



## Zoltan

DavecUK said:


> @delta76 Moving from the Barista Pro would be a huge difference in, getting the right temperatures and steaming power.


 Does it mean we don't have to fully open the steam (I mean turn the knob as much as possible) when steaming milk? I just started to do lattes with my Elizabeth and definitely struggling... Until now I had espressos only but decided to try latte as there is a steam wand


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Zoltan said:


> Does it mean we don't have to fully open the steam (I mean turn the knob as much as possible) when steaming milk? I just started to do lattes with my Elizabeth and definitely struggling... Until now I had espressos only but decided to try latte as there is a steam wand


 I always open the steam wand in full. But you don't need to (I don't know why you'd do that, unless you are steaming an insanely low amount of milk)


----------



## Zoltan

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I always open the steam wand in full. But you don't need to (I don't know why you'd do that, unless you are steaming an insanely low amount of milk)


 I do it because didn't watch any information/video/suggestions about steaming with Elizabeth as I said: not my cup of tea, but recently I try to use it. Maybe better to read and watch reviews


----------



## Paul_from_Oz

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I always open the steam wand in full. But you don't need to (I don't know why you'd do that, unless you are steaming an insanely low amount of milk)


 My impression is that the steam valve does not need to be fully opened in order to deliver full steam power (going by my eyes and ears). Maybe a little past half open?

One a couple of occasions I've actually had the steam valve stick open because I opened it all the way, and something must have expanded with the heating. Just required a firm twist to unstick it.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Paul_from_Oz - Good point. I thought about this after writing. By "fully" opening I mean "the flow of steam is at maximum". What I was saying is that there's no reason - unless one wants to steam a very small amount of milk - to use the steam tap to restrict the flow.


----------



## Alfieboy

Element straight down to Earth!
9 months old - Gutted

Some corrosion on the overheat stat too but can't check for other issues yet


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

what has happened to your boiler @Uncletits ????? Has it been leaking or something?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Uncletits said:


> Element straight down to Earth!
> 9 months old - Gutted
> 
> Some corrosion on the overheat stat too but can't check for other issues yet
> 
> View attachment 60302


 This is what mine looks like. It's not a recent photo, but it was very much the same last time I opened her up to adjust the OPV.

View attachment 44611


Regardless, It's still covered by warranty. Time to contact your vendor. This is not your fault.


----------



## Alfieboy

@MediumRoastSteam very much leaking but not when cold I can't fire it up to temperature until I get the element replaced


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Uncletits - That's very annoying. Do you know where it was leaking from?

I hope you get this sorted out soon.


----------



## Alfieboy

There was nowhere obvious but it's worked like a dream since new

Spoke to Bella and told them I could do it but I was concerned about the likelihood there is a leak

I'll call them back tomorrow as I sent photos


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Uncletits said:


> Spoke to Bella and told them I could do it but I was concerned about the likelihood there is a leak


 Smart move. There must be something which caused it. The corroded contacts aren't very inspiring either. It could be that there was a leak, it evaporated, condensed on the top lid and then precipitated back on top of the contacts, or just created general moisture around.

What's the steam boiler looking like?


----------



## Alfieboy

I'll take a better look tomorrow but it all seemed perfect (like yours 😎)


----------



## Alfieboy

So I spoke to Bella Barista and the "Manager" was looking at emails including mine I hoped today to assess what could be done but there was no reply or contact which is disappointing to say the least


----------



## DavecUK

@Uncletits "Possibly" leaking in the areas indicated....you should get that limit stat replaced as well. As heating element replacement requires boiler removal, I think....you will have to remake those joints with PTFE anyway.


----------



## El carajillo

Observations.

Is the corrosion around the perimeter from welding flux ?

The corrosion on the limit stat looks more like chemical corrosion rather than water ?

In order to reseal the pipe fittings it looks as if they will require the L/stat, tem/sensor and possibly the element out to enable the fittings to be rotated.

The wires to the sensor need repositioning to remove the sharp kink as this is a common breaking point.


----------



## Alfieboy

@DavecUKThanks that seems logical looking again at the photos

Ill try to speak to them again on Monday


----------



## Alfieboy

@El carajillo yes that looks odd when you compare it to @MediumRoastSteam


----------



## Alfieboy

Couple of more photos which backs up @MediumRoastSteamtheory about condensation from a leak

Still no reply or acknowledgment from Bella


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Uncletits - I hope this gets sorted out soon. It just goes to show how important it is to have a prosumer coffee machines checked over every now and again. On that front, as an Elizabeth owner, it just sucks. Instead of the traditional 4 very accessible screws, the machine relies on 3 torx-20 screws located in the most awkward positions. And, to top it up, it has a rubber bumper which goes around the top panel, and requires elaborate manoeuvring to fit it back. It's not difficult, it's just hassle. I hope Lelit revises that one day.


----------



## Zoltan

Hey everyone.

Could you help me please. I would like to change my settings as Dave Corby recommends but can't find that video. Feel like my YouTube account has some issues and I'm censored 😱😀 Also I just realized that we can see the actual temperature on the screen instead of the target temp. Am I right? How can I change that setting?

I can't find my factory manual. I've found Dave's videos on YouTube but as I said only few and I remember well that he has much more about the machine 🤷

So if someone would copy here a link... Thank You


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Zoltan said:


> Hey everyone.
> 
> Could you help me please. I would like to change my settings as Dave Corby recommends but can't find that video. Feel like my YouTube account has some issues and I'm censored 😱😀 Also I just realized that we can see the actual temperature on the screen instead of the target temp. Am I right? How can I change that setting?
> 
> I can't find my factory manual. I've found Dave's videos on YouTube but as I said only few and I remember well that he has much more about the machine 🤷
> 
> So if someone would copy here a link... Thank You


 Check the very first post on this thread. The link is there. See LCC and Advanced settings. 👍


----------



## Zoltan

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Check the very first post on this thread. The link is there. See LCC and Advanced settings. 👍


 Amazing, thanks. Just had a quick look and found everything I need.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Zoltan said:


> Amazing, thanks. Just had a quick look and found everything I need.


 That review is pretty comprehensive. I suppose I kept bugging Dave with questions and he kept telling me "wait until the review is published!!!" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 - it answered all my questions too! 👍👍👍👍👍


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> That review is pretty comprehensive. I suppose I kept bugging Dave with questions and he kept telling me "wait until the review is published!!!" ???????????????????? - it answered all my questions too! ????????????????????


 Well it's amazing they are useful really, considering I have been accused of doing sales puff pieces by complete twats over the years....


----------



## europa

Hey, everyone. Just wanted to introduce myself and say hi!

After weeks of deliberation (and lurking on this forum), i have just ordered an Elizabeth (from amazon.de) - i can't wait! I have also ordered an 1zpresso J Max hand grinder (from Sigma Coffee). I am sure some of you will question that choice, but i can't justify the cost of a decent electric grinder (like the Niche Zero). And, correct me if i'm wrong, but i think the J Max is only a tad inferior (albeit more work lol)!

I'll have a steep learning curve for sure as i am coming from a Delonghi Magnifica ESAM 4200! Was originally looking at a Gaggia Classic, then the Europiccola and finally the Mara X, but i am first and foremost a cappuco/caffe-latte guy and i decided it was worth investing in a DB machine instead.

Although i have read a lot of reviews and watched loads of vids, i am yet to read through this entire thread - i will get there! In the meantime, thanks to everyone on here, especially @DavecUKand @MediumRoastSteam, for so much helpful information about the Lizzy!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@europa - Welcome aboard! I take you are based in the EU?


----------



## europa

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @europa - Welcome aboard! I take you are based in the EU?


 Thanks. Nope, i am in London.


----------



## DavecUK

@europa Welcome to the forum..


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

europa said:


> Thanks. Nope, i am in London.


 Ha. I was curious because you said you bought it from amazon.de. - Any reason why you didn't consider buying from a UK shop?

Presumably with Amazon DE it was cheaper, but, was VAT added?


----------



## DavecUK

@MediumRoastSteam I think some of the European companies have got their sales systems in order and either cover the VAT and handling themselves, so you pay a known price...or simply sell them Ex VAT and you pay VAT and handling.


----------



## europa

@MediumRoastSteam



MediumRoastSteam said:


> Ha. I was curious because you said you bought it from amazon.de. - Any reason why you didn't consider buying from a UK shop?
> 
> Presumably with Amazon DE it was cheaper, but, was VAT added?


 I would have ordered from bella barista, BUT over 200£ more is too big a difference to ignore! @DavecUK is correct: Amazon DE includes import duties in its price. So i paid ca. 940£ inclusive of taxes and delivery.

I also confirmed with Amazon DE that they include two years' warranty, and that they will cover return shipping costs in the case of a warranty return.

I also considered la macchina del caffè, but they said their warranty is only for Italy-based customers and were rather unclear on the tax issue.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@europa - this is great to know! Many thanks!


----------



## delta76

To add to the discussion - yes most ecommerce sites (at least major ones) do it that way - if it to be sent to a country with different VAT percentage, they will calculate the price with the VAT percentage of the destination country. in case of Amazon they usually do the import duty for you if you ship cross EU border (and that'd be cheaper than you do it yourself).

The notably exception in this case, is, well, NIche Zero. Even if I order it to Sweden, they will charge me the full 499GBP, and then I will have to pay import declaration fee and VAT on that, ending up like ~30% more. Nope, Niche Zero is good, but not 700 GBP good.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I remove and clean my shower screen every 2 months. Backflush every two weeks.

2 coffees per day (breakfast and lunch), sometimes a cheeky one after dinner.

Those photos were taken straight after taking it apart.




















I then soaked in Puly for 30 mins and scrubbed with washing up liquid, but there's no difference.














A very easy machine to keep it in tip top condition!


----------



## BiggieBig

My Elizabeth has started to play up after 10 months.

The steam wand now constantly drips and has now become extremely stiff gets hot and the pressure has dropped.

I remember some posts about over tightening causing issues with the valve. Through I'm conscious not to do this.

any pointers on how to fix ?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@BiggieBig - what water are you using?


----------



## BiggieBig

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @BiggieBig - what water are


 I do live in hard water areas but use filtered zip water


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

BiggieBig said:


> I do live in hard water areas but use filtered zip water


 I just googled that. I don't believe it removes any hardness. There's no claims they do that either.

This one right? https://www.zipwater.co.uk/products/filtration

if I were you, I'd check your water hardness and alkalinity. There are drop kits for you to test.

I do believe your machine is scaled up. The tap has potentially built up sediment around it, and now is leaking.

Could you remove your shower screen and dispersion block, and take a picture on both sides? I've seen a picture in one machine on the Lelit Group on Facebook where you could clearly see calcium build up there, so this could be a good indicator.


----------



## BiggieBig

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I just googled that. I don't believe it removes any hardness. There's no claims they do that either.
> 
> This one right? https://www.zipwater.co.uk/products/filtration
> 
> if I were you, I'd check your water hardness and alkalinity. There are drop kits for you to test.
> 
> I do believe your machine is scaled up. The tap has potentially built up sediment around it, and now is leaking.
> 
> Could you remove your shower screen and dispersion block, and take a picture on both sides? I've seen a picture in one machine on the Lelit Group on Facebook where you could clearly see calcium build up there, so this could be a good indicator.


 Thanks for your response

yeah that's the one

I'll check it out tomorrow and report back.


----------



## delta76

More than one month in, and I'm happy to say I grow to love my Elizabeth even more. It feels so good to have something that is well built, reliable, and produces consistent espresso in your kitchen (if the espresso is great or not is another topic, and that's not the machine fault). I have my eyes on Bianca, but that will have to wait =))

Now, only if I can settle on a scale ...


----------



## BiggieBig

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I just googled that. I don't believe it removes any hardness. There's no claims they do that either.
> 
> This one right? https://www.zipwater.co.uk/products/filtration
> 
> if I were you, I'd check your water hardness and alkalinity. There are drop kits for you to test.
> 
> I do believe your machine is scaled up. The tap has potentially built up sediment around it, and now is leaking.
> 
> Could you remove your shower screen and dispersion block, and take a picture on both sides? I've seen a picture in one machine on the Lelit Group on Facebook where you could clearly see calcium build up there, so this could be a good indicator.


 Have attached a pic of bottom some stains there which may show signs of scaling I guess.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@BiggieBig - I was more after the dispersion block and shower screen.



MediumRoastSteam said:


> Could you remove your shower screen and dispersion block, and take a picture on both sides


 😊


----------



## Capo29

Hello all. Been browsing this forum for a bit, currently have a niche and a sage bambino plus. Feel like the sage is holding things back so bit the bullet and just ordered the Elizabeth from bb.

Looking forward to using it and hopefully pulling some better shots. Will watch Daves videos again and print out the guides for settings etc.


----------



## Capo29

Will need to wait a few more days for delivery, FedEx have been slow and its now the weekend 😭


----------



## europa

Apols if this has already been addressed - i still haven't had time to read thru all 71 pages of this thread - but is it normal that, upon heat up, the brew temp increases to about 118C before dropping back to the temp that you set - in my case, 93C?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

europa said:


> Apols if this has already been addressed - i still haven't had time to read thru all 71 pages of this thread - but is it normal that, upon heat up, the brew temp increases to about 118C before dropping back to the temp that you set - in my case, 93C?


 Yes. Did you read Dave's review, linked on the very first post of this thread? That's one of the features, amongst others.


----------



## europa

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Yes. Did you read Dave's review, linked on the very first post of this thread? That's one of the features, amongst others.


 Yes, i have read it and watched all the vids - will take another look now...i wonder how i missed it! 🤔

Edit: Found it! I guess i missed it as i wouldn't have understood it before getting the machine...probably like a lot of features!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

europa said:


> Yes, i have read it and watched all the vids - will take another look now...i wonder how i missed it! 🤔
> 
> Edit: Found it! I guess i missed it as i wouldn't have understood it before getting the machine...probably like a lot of features!


 Good stuff. In a week's time, watch it all again. I'm sure you missed more things 🙂 - That's what I did when I got mine! 👍


----------



## Alfieboy

Uncletits said:


> Couple of more photos which backs up @MediumRoastSteamtheory about condensation from a leak
> 
> Still no reply or acknowledgment from Bella
> 
> View attachment 60345
> 
> 
> View attachment 60346


 Just as a follow up my machine got repaired

They replaced the elbow circled below as it is now brass coloured (this photo is before the repair) they intimated it was the push fit leaking and dripping down onto the mains connector even though the element terminal was blackened as was the inside of the top of the machine in my previous pictures

When I asked them if the element had been replaced whilst replying to their advice that it was repaired I received no reply

I feel the communication was quite poor with BB but it is now back and repaired


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Uncletits said:


> mains connector even though the element terminal was blackened


 What does it look like now? Is it still the case? Keep an eye on it every week or so just in case it still leaks. 🤔👍


----------



## Alfieboy

@MediumRoastSteam I ran it with the top off for 2 days and it was dry

I can only think moisture got into the element as they are susceptible to that like when a Classic boiler is cleaned

Very odd though as I know my way around a megger and the element was straight down to earth 0.1 Mohm


----------



## Capo29

So I'm heading to work for 3-4 weeks..

Done the backflush clean, drained the service boiler and tank and gave it all a general wipe over. Anything else I need to do?

Don't want to come back and find the pipes have gone mouldy or something.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

That's all you can do. Have fun! 🙂


----------



## JahLaza

Capo29 said:


> So I'm heading to work for 3-4 weeks..
> 
> Done the backflush clean, drained the service boiler and tank and gave it all a general wipe over. Anything else I need to do?
> 
> Don't want to come back and find the pipes have gone mouldy or something.


 I'm just back from a 3.5 week trip away, I did exactly as you did. I gave the water reservoir another Milton wash when I got back last night and just started as normal this morning with no issues, had nice coffee today!


----------



## europa

I'm having trouble dialing in (16 -> 32g), and i'm finding different extraction times depending whether i use no preinfusion, steam preinfusion (@ 9 secs) or bloom preinfusion (@ 14 secs).

Let's say i manage to get 32g out in 25 secs with no pre infusion, i would expect it to take 34 secs with steam preinfusion and 39 secs with bloom preinfusion. But that doesn't happen - it is taking a fair bit less than 34 (&39) seconds.

So, my question is: should i first be dialing in with no preinfusion? And, if so, when then using preinfusion (after having dialed in), should i simply stop the extraction at 32g (and ignore the time)?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

europa said:


> Let's say i manage to get 32g out in 25 secs with no pre infusion, i would expect it to take 34 secs with steam preinfusion and 39 secs with bloom preinfusion


 Your expectations are incorrect. Just because there's a 10 second pre-infusion doesn't mean that all of a sudden the shots are going to take longer. Remember, the pre-infusion will saturate the puck, so the shot will run faster after that if compared to no pre-infusion.

In my experience, the time with a 10s pre infusion, steam or bloom pre infusion, is pretty much the same as the shot running without pre-infusion.


----------



## europa

> On 30/10/2020 at 15:18, MediumRoastSteam said:


 @MediumRoastSteam, in your vid (which is great, btw) your shot runs for 39 secs (with 10s SPI). 39-10=29, hence my idea to add on the PI time. Based on what you say above, however, with a 39s pull time aren't you over extracting your shot?

Edit: everything i've read tells me to aim for a 25-30s pull time.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

europa said:


> with a 39s pull time aren't you over extracting your shot?


 Tastes good to me. 😊😉

In other words, see what works for you. If 30s tastes good, then great. But do try 40s, 35s&#8230; try longer ratios, shorter ratios. See what works for you.

edit: Check out what you tongue tastes, not what your eyes see. 👍

Honestly, though, aim for a 35s with 10s pre-infusion and then try without it. You'll see the timing is not much different.

And&#8230; thanks for the compliments on the video. I'll pass it on to my son, the cameraboy. 🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## JahLaza

Just watched this on Lelit insider, should anyone need to empty the brew boiler at some stage (and a noted warning at the end of the video!)


----------



## delta76

delta76 said:


> Wet pluck - I am using 18-19gr of coffee, IMS Competition 18-22gr. The espresso is good, but the puck is wet and when I knock it out, it is not in the cylinder shape. Too fine? Too little coffee in the basket?


 I bought a puck screen from normcore, and that problem is solved nicely. Now I get beautiful puck almost everytime, and even more than that, a nice clean group head. A simple wipe with a wet cloth is all I need afterward. I didn't recognize any change in tastes, but for the puck alone, would definitely recommend it.


----------



## big dan

Hello all! Been away from the forum for a good few years but just sold my Rocket HX to a buddy to use in his cocktail bar, and I have decided to replace with the Elizabeth.

Just wondering regarding water, I have always used volvic as back in the day this was the consensus on the best to use.

Is that still the case or does anyone have any other recommendations? I live In Brighton (UK) and we have terribly hard water.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@big dan - Volvic will scale eventually, Ashbeck will as well, eventually.

these days, the recommendation is the Osmio Zero, or distilled / RO water remineralised with non scaling minerals (e.g.: sodium bicarbonate, potsssium bicarbonate).

There's a new device coming called Skuma. But its eta is June 2022.


----------



## big dan

Thanks mate super helpful. I descaled my boiler last year in lockdown and was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't too bad having just used Volvic.

Will definitely take a look at your recommendations! 👍


----------



## Capo29

I've been using Scottish tap water so far. It's soft enough, but will have chlorine etc in it so have ordered a zerowater jug to get me through until the skuma release.


----------



## big dan

I'm looking at Skuma now, definitely going to back it as it looks ace!


----------



## OCHSPB

Hello everyone
Sorry for my English, I use a translator.

First of all, thank you for this forum thread, your answers and all the useful information that you have.

@MediumRoastSteam @DavecUK Need your help

It happens that Elizabeth does not warm up the steam boiler to the temperature set in the PID, or it warms up, but does not support

The PID is set to 140 for steam, the machine has been turned on for more than 30 minutes. I approach it, look at the actual steam temperature on the display - 136 degrees, i.e. less than the set one, which is strange.

I turn on the steam and it ends very quickly (in 20 seconds), the temperature drops to 110 degrees, the heating element in the steam boiler does not turn on during the temperature drop, after the steam is closed, the pumping of water into the boiler turns on, the heating element still turns on, then everything works fine.

By normal, I mean that the heating element in the steam turns on almost as soon as you start whipping milk, the temperature in the boiler drops very slowly (after 40-50 seconds of whipping, the temperature in the boiler is 132-135). It's all good. You can beat 3 pitchers, everything will also be fine.

And so on until the next oddity with the unwillingness to maintain temperatures in the steam boiler.
DavecUK settings. Reset the PID to factory settings. it didn't help. During the first month since the purchase of the car, there was no such thing. Steam was always on top. Heating of the boiler was always turned on instantly with the opening of the steam tap.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@OCHSPB - Hello and welcome! What's your native language, out of curiosity? I noticed it translated "machine" to "car". So I can think of a few languages already. 😊👍

So, you are saying that:

- when the machine was new, it was working fine?
- you use DavecUK settings;
- after some time, the machine started to cause this strange behaviour?

if so, what's your water like? At a guess, I bet you have limescale build up, causing the probe to record false readings.


----------



## OCHSPB

@MediumRoastSteam

Russian
Translated "machine" to "car" is my oversight, because I typed a large text from my phone 😃

- when the machine was new, it was working fine? - Yes
- you use DavecUK settings; - Yes, configured after purchase machine.
- after some time, the machine started to cause this strange behaviour? - I usually start making coffee and milk 30 minutes after switching on. And I notice that the steam in the boiler is not at the right temperature.

The water is very soft. Kettles and other heating elements are in perfect cleanliness. And the coffee machine is only a month old.

I also noticed a small leak of water on the steam boiler. Is it important?

I made some videos for you.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

OCHSPB said:


> Russian


 Ha! I thought so! Fun fact: I work with a colleague from Russia, and we were talking about similarities between words of other languages, like "machine" for car or automobile, for instance. 🙂



OCHSPB said:


> I also noticed a small leak of water on the steam boiler. Is it important?


 That could be it. Also, I take you turned off the standby - auto-off mode?

(will watch videos soon)


----------



## OCHSPB

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Ха! Я так и думал! Интересный факт: я работаю с моим коллегой из России, и мы говорили о сходстве слов в других языках, например, «машина» для автомобиля или автомобиля. 🙂
> 
> Это могло быть так. Кроме того, я так понимаю, вы отключили режим ожидания - автоотключение?
> 
> (скоро посмотрю видео)


 😃 👍

Standby mode is disabled. Power is controlled via a smart socket.

It leaks from a nut with a blue sensor wire. What is this sensor?

I'm waiting for your opinion after you watch the video


----------



## DavecUK

@OCHSPB The nut with the blue sensor wire is the level probe. This detects the level of water in the steam boiler.

The fitting is like this (generic example). The metal probe tip is insulated, but when the water drops below the tip, it starts filling, when it touches the end, it grounds it and stops the boiler filling with water a specified time later (e.g. 5 seconds).

It does depend where your leak is as to the fix....*the red arrows show two possible places*, but I can't tell which one from the video. You will have to watch it as it warms up and see where it's coming from. Once you have identified the leak, you can try some teflon tape to resolve it, but* check with your retailer first, if it's still under warranty..*


----------



## OCHSPB

DavecUK thanks for the information
I think it's leaking from under the gaskets (right arrow).
See the video. I don't see any water on top of the nut.

Can this be the reason for the strange behavior of heating the boiler?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@OCHSPB - I'd say so. You can either undo that nut and seal with PTFE (Teflon tape) and then put it back.

Personally, since the machine is one month old, I'd contact your retailer and have it repaired under warranty.


----------



## OCHSPB

@DavecUK @MediumRoastSteam

I tightened this nut by 0.5 mm . The leak has disappeared so far.
The strange behavior doesn't seem to have gone away.
I sent the question to the seller. Local Lelit promised to watch the video later and try to help.
I would like to understand if the relationship between the steam temperature and this leak.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@OCHSPB in my simple world, to me it's like having the steam wand slightly open constantly. Also, you are getting water in there, rather than only steam, which might also indicate the boiler is overfilling.


----------



## OCHSPB

@MediumRoastSteam

If I remember correctly, @DavecUK said that the heating can be turned off when the water level in the boiler decreases until the pump is turned on and filled to the desired level.
If there is enough water or even more, how is the problem with the sensor and not turning on the steam heater connected?


----------



## DavecUK

I think the leak is not related to anything, but at least you have now stopped it.


----------



## OCHSPB

@DavecUK
Then what is the reason for not turning on the steam heating element when the temperature drops in the boiler (opening the steam tap)?

All other elements inside the coffee machine look great.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@OCHSPB - you could have a faulty probe. 🙂 - I don't think anyone here said that the leak was the only problem. 🙂


----------



## DavecUK

OCHSPB said:


> @DavecUK
> Then what is the reason for not turning on the steam heating element when the temperature drops in the boiler (opening the steam tap)?
> 
> All other elements inside the coffee machine look great.


 I watched the video carefully....the pump didn't turn on during steaming, but it appeared that the heating elements didn't fire up. Tell me, if it does this, and you leave it....what happens *exactly what happens, steam temperature pump running everything that happens.*


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## OCHSPB

@DavecUK

I didn't understand you, what does "... you leave it..." mean?

On the recommendation of Lelit, I reassembled the level sensor with a sealing tape. At least it eliminated the leak completely.
Everything is working now, but it doesn't mean anything. I'll check it out in the morning.


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## DavecUK

@OCHSPB When your video ended.....if you didn't do anything to the machine (*leave it* alone), what happens?


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## OCHSPB

DavecUK said:


> When your video ended.....if you didn't do anything to the machine (*leave it* alone), what happens?


 @DavecUK

Two options.
If the water pumping was not activated after the steam valve was closed, then nothing will happen.
If the water is pumped into the boiler, then the heater will start working.

The problem has not appeared yet, after yesterday's operation to seal the sensor.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@OCHSPB - keep us posted. That might have been all 🤞


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## big dan

@OCHSPBHope all it well now.

I have just ordered an Elizabeth myself so fingers crossed i don't have any issues.

And many thanks to @DavecUK and @MediumRoastSteam for answering some of my questions and providing me all the info i need.

Looking forwaring to having my first dual boiler macine!


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## OCHSPB

@MediumRoastSteam @DavecUK

There is a small update.
The level sensor was not directly the cause of the strange behavior of the coffee machine. Therefore, eliminating the leak did not solve the problem.
Together with the local representative office and the Italians, it was decided to replace the safety thermostats, because the leak was very close, they could fail.
Today I received and replaced them, so far everything is fine, I'm watching my Elizabeth.

@big dan Congratulations on your purchase. The coffee machine is excellent, is simply and logically made, minor problems are compensated by the quickness of the solution on the part of the seller and Lelit, everyone responds very operatively and sends the necessary spare parts.


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## OCHSPB

@DavecUK @MediumRoastSteam

Latest news. Replacing the MC521 safety thermostats completely solved the steam problem. Perhaps a leak from the level sensor led to their breakdown or it's just a coincidence.
Now the coffee machine works as on the first day after purchase.
Thank you all for your advice and support.


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## JimPT

Hello all,

still going through this thread, currently on page 44, and.. have decided to pull the plunge and buy this beauty.

Also buying a 58.4mm tamper since I use an 18gr ridgeless VST and the grounds on the sides drive me a bit crazy (always passing my finder to drop them on the coffee bed)

Upgrading from a Gaggia Classic, bought here 2nd hand in 2017, has suffered a bit no my hands. Mainly because only recently i learned that not all bottle water is good and won't be making the same mistake with Lizzy.

For a grinder I've a Mazzer Royal, also 2nd hand and bought it from @coffeechap in this forum, still going strong if you wonder how it's doing. An overkill for my 1-2 coffees a day, and have consider replacing it for a smaller one due to lack of counter space, but couldn't do it since it will probably outlast me.

Thank you @MediumRoastSteam and @DavecUK for all the help they have been giving to everyone on this thread, apologies if I am missing someone else equally helpful (still reading the thread).


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## JimPT

edit: moved to a topic of it's own, not specific to this machine

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/63103-espresso-machine-longivity-water/?do=embed


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## OCHSPB

Hello everyone!
I printed Steam Knob on a 3d printer in several colors. If anyone is interested, I attach a photo
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4909724


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## bk85

My LCC display is having some issues. Some pixels seem to not operate correctly, this is especially noticeable after a shot when the shot time is shown (see attachment). A line of pixels through the cup symbol, doesn't light up. The subtle brightness differences are just in the photo.

Anyone else who has noticed the same, or maybe know a fix?


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## Blaze

Hi Everyone! new member here.

Just received a new Elizabeth with new firmware 5.06 and I am curious what changes have been done compared to previous one?

Settings in the hidden menu are way far away from Daves ones. 

Do I suppose to change them to Daves ones or stay with stock settings?

Thanks for any help.


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