# Need a new machine



## saturn9 (Jan 1, 2017)

Hi, new here but am looking for a machine to replace my defunct Gran Gaggia.

Will be looking around for recommendations and sage advice!

Cheers,

John


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

What type and budget do you have in mind?


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

saturn9 said:


> Hi, new here but am looking for a machine to replace my defunct Gran Gaggia.
> 
> Will be looking around for recommendations and *sage* advice!
> 
> ...


So it's a Sage then









Plenty on here that can recommend them


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

It would be foolish not to checkout the Sage stable according to your budget available. They really are value for money. I've owned quite a few top of the range machines but never been happier meeting my current requirements than with the Sage Oracle.


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## saturn9 (Jan 1, 2017)

ronsil said:


> It would be foolish not to checkout the Sage stable according to your budget available. They really are value for money. I've owned quite a few top of the range machines but never been happier meeting my current requirements than with the Sage Oracle.


Hi,

Ihaven't heard of sage. The Gaggia classic looks to be a decent starter but I like the look of the lever machines.

Cheers


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

saturn9 said:


> Will be looking around for recommendations and sage advice!


Hi, there!

I think people got a bit confused by your opening post as you say "sage advice".

Maybe a typo?

What kind of lever machine are you interested at?


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## saturn9 (Jan 1, 2017)

pessutojr said:


> Hi, there!
> 
> I think people got a bit confused by your opening post as you say "sage advice".
> 
> ...


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

They are two completely different type of machines. I had a Classic for a few years, and that was my first "proper" coffee machine. I never used an Europiccola, so can't say much.

What grinder do you have?


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

I have both just now, both are great machines but different, the europiccola probably needs a bit of patience and skill but once you get used to it it's easy to produce good shots, The classic is probably easier to get used to. As above, you will need a decent grinder for both.


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## Samduncombe (Dec 29, 2016)

pessutojr said:


> They are two completely different type of machines. I had a Classic for a few years, and that was my first "proper" coffee machine. I never used an Europiccola, so can't say much.
> 
> What grinder do you have?


Hi, sorry to hijack but.... I have classic. I have ordered a non pressurised filter basket, will my encore grinder grind fine enough do you think? Seems to be possible according to a few but not to others.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

The Sage comment was tongue in cheek btw, but very valid nonetheless. They look very kitchen friendly as well.

In respect to the Classic vs LaPavoni, two very different machines, with advantages/disadvantages for both.

Classic +

No need to cool down before filling up

can pour longer drinks

easy to mod

plenty around

Classic -

one boiler so have to wait for it to get up to temp for steam/cool back down for brew

steam pressure isn't brilliant but does

supplied steam wand is rubbish

no pre-infusion (unless you open the steam knob to drop the water pressure reaching the grouphead)

brilliant machines though for the price, I loved mine.

LaPavoni +

instant steam and decent steaming power

full control over brew pressure as you are the pump

about as loud as a boiling kettle when getting up to pressure

silent in use

small footprint

very kitchen friendly, style icon

amazing results when you get it right

true pre-infusion

LaPavoni -

can't top up water while in use

prone to overheating

steep learning curve

limited to amount of water in the grouphead, unless a felini method is used.

LaPavoni has smaller baskets (either 49mm or 51mm dependant on age) as well, so a double uses 15 to 16g (which I find enough).

To me, the Pavoni was an upgrade - but the Classic was a great place to start.


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## saturn9 (Jan 1, 2017)

Forgot to say I don't have a grinder. Currently making do with the self grind option in Booth's supermarket. I need to include this in the price. If I were to set aside £400,that would seem to be enough for a classic and £150ish for a grinder? Does that sound reasonable? Love the look of the LaPavoni though.

@Rhys - thanks for the comparison, food(!) for thought.

John


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

saturn9 said:


> Forgot to say I don't have a grinder. Currently making do with the self grind option in Booth's supermarket. I need to include this in the price. If I were to set aside £400,that would seem to be enough for a classic and £150ish for a grinder? Does that sound reasonable? Love the look of the LaPavoni though.
> 
> @Rhys - thanks for the comparison, food(!) for thought.
> 
> John


Preground is a step up from instant, and requires a pressurised portafilter.

£400 is a good budget for what you want. Classics usually go for around the £150 mark, and a Mazzer Super Jolly would see you under budget for both (around £200, depending on condition). Eureka Mignon is another kitchen friendly alternative. With what's left, get a proper tamper (ditch the plastic rubbish that you often get, it's a dolls house table and not worth using for anything else). Motta do decent ones (I still have mine from my Classic). Other accessories you might want, tamping mat to save the worktop, milk pitcher and maybe a milk thermometer like the Rhinowares one. Shopping by around could net you the lot for your budget (not including beans).

Check the sales section of the forum. Classics often come up, as do decent grinders.


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