# Pimp my Pavoni!



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

With the purchase of a new to me pre-millenium Europiccola I am after a shopping list to pimp it up a bit.

Here goes. 
1. I want more temp stability, do I need it? It's the I/II version so temp surfing needed!
I was going to go for PID etc. but apparently that causes issues with the steaming. So just a stick on digital temp probe, that do the job?

2. New 1 hole steam tip (check!) ordered one from Nick.

3. Bottomless PF, seems these are out of stock, I might just take the angle grinder to the current one! Although it could do with a retaining clip!

4. Better basket, anyone tried the IMS one? Currently struggling to get more than 12g in the basket without disturbing the puck. (quite low density bean that one) 
IMS screen worth it too?

5. Pressure gauge. Apparently needs an adaptor to fit? I measured the thread diameter on the screw in cap on the sight glass and it came up around 11mm. So I'm guessing thats M11? 
So I need an M10-M11 adapter to fit the pressure gauge?

6. Heatsink, struggling to find one of the cooling fin type models. Any ideas?

Anything else obvious I'm missing?

Also, is there an easy way of draining the drip tray without having to pick the whole machine up???

Thanks!


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

1)This PF will take average and depending on grind 15>17gm. In stock at posting. Others available on eBay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/La-Pavoni-49mm-Bottomless-Naked-Portafilter-Handle-Old-Group-Pre-Millenium-Lever/164148533376?hash=item263803d880:g:jyMAAOSwKZtahsWp

2)The plastic drip tray just lifts out. Simples.

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/La-Pavoni-Lever-Plastic-Drip-Tray---371104/m-2232.aspx

I let the machine cool down without the drip tray to so the heat dries any trapped water between the tray and the base.

3) If it had not been done before you purchased, a thorough descaling and replacement of piston washers, piston shaft washer, PF seal and steam tap washers.

4)Tube of food safe grease.

5) Patience.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Nice thanks. I'll get the PF.

my drip tray is missing that piece I think


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

TomHughes said:


> Nice thanks. I'll get the PF.
> 
> my drip tray is missing that piece I think


 I suggest buying two of those drip trays. Mine developed a fatal crack underneath after a few months of use.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

I haven't seen anyway of getting temp stability from Pavonis and for me adding PIDs aren't what these machines are about but each to their own. A bit like taking an old E-type Jag and converting it to electric.

Bottomless portafilters are great, just because they're nice to watch when pulling the shot.

Ive been using this basket for the last few years and depending on beans I get between 14-15g in on my pre millennium. https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/La-Pavoni-Lever-Double-Filter-Basket-Old-Group---327051/m-2191.aspx

I have just received an IMS screen and basket today but yet to try them.

The finns are supposed to help but I've never used one. As @Batian said be patient and you'll soon get used to the machine, learn its quirks and pour great shots.


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@TomHughes - If you are OK with the LCD stickers the ones from Bluestar/Coffee Sensor work really well and are pretty cheap ~£6

I bought my boiler pressure gauge and adapter from Coffee Sensor along with the brew pressure kit. More expensive but the dials are a matching design (I am a bit fussy 😭). Tudor is a really nice bloke to deal with.

Might be worth a check with @coffeechap in case he could get some cheaper genuine OEM Pavoni ones.

https://coffee-sensor.com/product/coffee-sensor-complete-set-pressure-gauge-and-adapter-for-la-pavoni-europiccola-ss304/

https://coffee-sensor.com/product/coffee-sensor-full-piston-pressure-kit-for-the-la-pavoni-europiccola-pre-millennium-and-millenium-machines/


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

I found the lugs tiny on the eBay bottomless handle I bought and sold on, the one I kept was from these guys and had a spring clip.

https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/en/portafiltri-la-pavoni.html


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## GrowlingDog (Apr 10, 2016)

In my experience you soon learn how to use the Pav with the two switches. I'm fairly sure I use the standard basket and usually put 14.5g in mine, but I will check as I think I get a new one when I got my Naked PF.

I did put a pressure gauge on mine, can't say I ever look at it now, I use mine based on the sound the pressure release is making.

I will check what bits I purchased for mine.


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## GrowlingDog (Apr 10, 2016)

Just checked

I bought the M11 Gauge adapter From Espresso shop along with the pressure gauge. Make sure you have some ptfe tape to fit it.

i use the standard La Pavoni double basket froM Espresso shop.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

@TomHughes I hve loads of spares and a pressure profiling kit, drop me a pm with what you want.


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

Northern_Monkey said:


> I found the lugs tiny on the eBay bottomless handle I bought and sold on, the one I kept was from these guys and had a spring clip.
> 
> https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/en/portafiltri-la-pavoni.html


 Highly recommend for genuine La Pav parts. Purchasing several items smooths the postage cost.

They are very good at helping with problems.

I have bought both 49 and 51mm bottomless porta filters from these people on eBay and direct.

Includes basket and spring clip. No problems with the lugs.

https://www.edesiaespress.com/la-pavoni-49mm-bottomless-naked-portafilter-handle-for-europiccola-stradivari/


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Batian said:


> Highly recommend for genuine La Pav parts. Purchasing several items smooths the postage cost.
> 
> They are very good at helping with problems.
> 
> ...


 Yes, I have one of their funnels, it was very nice!


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> I haven't seen anyway of getting temp stability from Pavonis and for me adding PIDs aren't what these machines are about but each to their own. A bit like taking an old E-type Jag and converting it to electric.
> 
> Bottomless portafilters are great, just because they're nice to watch when pulling the shot.
> 
> ...


 Ooo let me know about the IMS basket and screen as the order from espresso shop goes in!


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

GrowlingDog said:


> In my experience you soon learn how to use the Pav with the two switches. I'm fairly sure I use the standard basket and usually put 14.5g in mine, but I will check as I think I get a new one when I got my Naked PF.
> 
> I did put a pressure gauge on mine, can't say I ever look at it now, I use mine based on the sound the pressure release is making.
> 
> ...


 I wish mine was red. 
Maybe I'll crack out the paint.

Although I currently have an idea of new base.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> I haven't seen anyway of getting temp stability from Pavonis and for me adding PIDs aren't what these machines are about but each to their own. A bit like taking an old E-type Jag and converting it to electric.
> 
> Bottomless portafilters are great, just because they're nice to watch when pulling the shot.
> 
> ...


 Any update on the basket? 
I am debating between an IMS one, at £18 from espresso shop, which is only 22mm deep or this one that apparently fits? 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELEKTRA-49mm-14g-Double-Shot-Replacement-Portafilter-Basket-Coffee-Espresso/282513923027?hash=item41c7245bd3:g:jdsAAOSwJo1bYva5#rwid

Just wondering if the extra depth is really needed? It's 4mm deeper


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

TomHughes said:


> Any update on the basket?
> I am debating between an IMS one, at £18 from espresso shop, which is only 22mm deep or this one that apparently fits?
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELEKTRA-49mm-14g-Double-Shot-Replacement-Portafilter-Basket-Coffee-Espresso/282513923027?hash=item41c7245bd3:g:jdsAAOSwJo1bYva5#rwid
> 
> Just wondering if the extra depth is really needed? It's 4mm deeper


 The microcasa one should fit. I've been using the one from the espresso shop for the past few years which holds 15g. I only started using the IMS one today and it only holds 14g with the same beans. It's clearly a quality product but whether it makes any difference over the standard basket is still up to debate.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> The microcasa one should fit. I've been using the one from the espresso shop for the past few years which holds 15g. I only started using the IMS one today and it only holds 14g with the same beans. It's clearly a quality product but whether it makes any difference over the standard basket is still up to debate.


 Thanks. Still don't know if I'm going to keep hold of it as currently it's causing more strife than it's worth


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

TomHughes said:


> Thanks. Still don't know if I'm going to keep hold of it as currently it's causing more strife than it's worth


 Patience! I felt the same the first few weeks I had mine and never thought I'd get a hang of it but then it just clicks. Try and have as few variables as possible so the only thing you have to adjust is the grind. Buy a kilo of beans you like and try and get that right before trying others. I've been a big fan of these over the last year and probably bought 5 kilos of it. For me it just makes a good espresso and it's a bargain. https://www.horshamcoffeeroaster.co.uk/collections/single-origin-coffee-beans/products/pioneer


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Ah not that kind of strife, the other kind. 
Apparently I have too many hobbies so this one is going to the back of the cupboard for now.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

TomHughes said:


> Ah not that kind of strife, the other kind.
> Apparently I have too many hobbies so this one is going to the back of the cupboard for now.


 Ah fair enough, I'm probably also guilty of that


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

edit. Reread above and got my answer!


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Another question if possible.

Are there any particular gaskets/seals/o rings which tend to need replacing? Or is it all of them? 
I am changing the steam arm o rings as they are definitely in need of a change, new piston gaskets and the showerscreen/filter gasket. 
Anything else?

Thanks


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

TomHughes said:


> Another question if possible.
> 
> Are there any particular gaskets/seals/o rings which tend to need replacing? Or is it all of them?
> 
> ...


Get the group service kit and replace the whole lot if you are at it.

They don't require replacing as such, as long as you look after them (clean, lube every 6 months or so).

Had mine going now for two years, good as gold!

I wouldn't bother with the manometer. You can check he pressure by attaching a home made one to the steam wand. I check mine every 6 months to make sure it's still at 0.85 bar.

Get a seal for the boiler cap and replace it. Yours might have hardened, but since you are ordering spares, why not.

Also, piston seals.... can be a daunting job... get a spare set, just in case you mess up.

And a boiler to element gasket (keep it in case yours go bad or you need to remove the element - don't change if you don't need to).


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Get the group service kit and replace the whole lot if you are at it.
> 
> They don't require replacing as such, as long as you look after them (clean, lube every 6 months or so).
> 
> ...


 Great thanks, I'll get those.

Is the manometer really not worth it for £25? Wouldn't it be good to help regulate pressure whilst temp surfing? Also doesn't Ferrari sell an adjustable pressure release so you can tune that side of things too?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Get the group service kit and replace the whole lot if you are at it.
> 
> They don't require replacing as such, as long as you look after them (clean, lube every 6 months or so).
> 
> ...


 Do you mean this?

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/La-Pavoni-Lever-Fibre-Element-Gasket---465226/m-2197.aspx

have been removing the element a few times undoing the 3 bolts on the bottom to get inside the boiler, to tighten a bolt, but didn't even see a gasket.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

TomHughes said:


> Do you mean this?
> https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/La-Pavoni-Lever-Fibre-Element-Gasket---465226/m-2197.aspx
> have been removing the element a few times undoing the 3 bolts on the bottom to get inside the boiler, to tighten a bolt, but didn't even see a gasket.


Or this

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/La-Pavoni-Lever-Heating-Element-Seal-Black-Rubber---465225/m-2215.aspx

Depending on the machine year/model


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Or this
> 
> https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/La-Pavoni-Lever-Heating-Element-Seal-Black-Rubber---465225/m-2215.aspx
> 
> Depending on the machine year/model


 Ah I didn't know there were different ones! when I undid I didn't even notice it had one! 
It looked like the bottom of the boiler had a screw thread but it had the 3 bolts. 
I'll go take a look.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

So some success! 
my wife (unknown to me) bought me a naked PF which arrived today.

So I had to test it of course!

A Brazilian I roasted about 3 days ago, so a little fresh. 14g in the now humongous basket that came with it (a full 6mm deeper than the stock)

heated up the machine on the II, waited for steam out of the valve, switchef to 1, Purged off the false pressure. Flushed the group which then climbed to 80C. 
Pulled the shot with 30g out. Then steamed some milk. Still crappy latte art but it was delicious!

Looks like the Sage is on the way out!


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> The microcasa one should fit. I've been using the one from the espresso shop for the past few years which holds 15g. I only started using the IMS one today and it only holds 14g with the same beans. It's clearly a quality product but whether it makes any difference over the standard basket is still up to debate.


 How are you getting on with the IMS? I got the larger basket today, probably under-dosed it as I reckon it could have fit 15-16 in, but potentially getting the IMS screen and basket. Did you get the screen too?


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

TomHughes said:


> How are you getting on with the IMS? I got the larger basket today, probably under-dosed it as I reckon it could have fit 15-16 in, but potentially getting the IMS screen and basket. Did you get the screen too?


 It's a quality item and maybe improves the shot slightly or maybe that's just my wishful thinking. I did buy the screen but I haven't had time to fit. I should be able to get it on the next day or two.


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

With time, it cleverly disguises itself in the groove in which it is seated. Last one I did needed to be chipped out carefully in several pieces and the groove cleaned with a Dremmel type tool.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Batian said:


> With time, it cleverly disguises itself in the groove in which it is seated. Last one I did needed to be chipped out carefully in several pieces and the groove cleaned with a Dremmel type tool.


 The gasket? Maybe I will just leave it alone as it's not leaking at all


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> It's a quality item and maybe improves the shot slightly or maybe that's just my wishful thinking. I did buy the screen but I haven't had time to fit. I should be able to get it on the next day or two.


 Great, do you know if it's deeper than the standard basket, I am getting the standard basket at 20mm deep, with a bowed bottomed, the new basket is 26. The IMS is 22 correct?


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

TomHughes said:


> The gasket? Maybe I will just leave it alone as it's not leaking at all


 Sorry, I thought my post was following on from yours!

Yes the gasket. Take care in ordering, there are two different sizes. Check the click on info and Q&A's here:

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/Element-SealGasket/pg-1-8.aspx


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

TomHughes said:


> Great, do you know if it's deeper than the standard basket, I am getting the standard basket at 20mm deep, with a bowed bottomed, the new basket is 26. The IMS is 22 correct?


 Here are the three double baskets. Left is the original Pavoni double, middle is the IMS and right is the larger Microcasa basket. The Microcasa looks significantly bigger but it's slightly narrower so my 49.5mm tamper wouldn't fit in it, it is 49mm. The Pavoni tapers in slightly at the bottom where as the IMS doesn't so I would say the IMS holds between .5-1g more than the Pavoni and the the Microcasa holds 1g more than the IMS


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> Here are the three double baskets. Left is the original Pavoni double, middle is the IMS and right is the larger Microcasa basket. The Microcasa looks significantly bigger but it's slightly narrower so my 49.5mm tamper wouldn't fit in it, it is 49mm. The Pavoni tapers in slightly at the bottom where as the IMS doesn't so I would say the IMS holds between .5-1g more than the Pavoni and the the Microcasa holds 1g more than the IMS
> 
> View attachment 41666
> 
> ...


 Thanks! I appreciate you doing that. I think the IMS is worth getting for a smaller shot, I like around 14g. The basket I have is tiny, much smaller than the one on the left so no idea where it came from (it's not a single, have one of those too)

It's only £18 or so so worth the punt with the screen too.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

TomHughes said:


> Thanks! I appreciate you doing that. I think the IMS is worth getting for a smaller shot, I like around 14g. The basket I have is tiny, much smaller than the one on the left so no idea where it came from (it's not a single, have one of those too)
> 
> It's only £18 or so so worth the punt with the screen too.


 Yes it's only a few quid more than a standard basket so definitely worth it.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Batian said:


> Sorry, I thought my post was following on from yours!
> 
> Yes the gasket. Take care in ordering, there are two different sizes. Check the click on info and Q&A's here:
> 
> https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/Element-SealGasket/pg-1-8.aspx


 So I've opened it up again and there does not appear to be a gasket??? Just a groove that needs a good clean! 
Any ideas? Which one would it take?








edit did some googling and I think it's the flat one


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

TomHughes said:


> So I've opened it up again and there does not appear to be a gasket??? Just a groove that needs a good clean!
> 
> Any ideas? Which one would it take?
> 
> ...


Isn't that green thing around the edge the gasket?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Isn't that green thing around the edge the gasket?


 It's rock solid so presumed it was brass!


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

TomHughes said:


> It's rock solid so presumed it was brass!


 That element is different to mine but pretty sure the gasket is the green thing. They do go rock hard overtime.


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

TomHughes said:


> It's rock solid so presumed it was brass!


 That is exactly what I thought when I did the same job. It turned out to be a set solid fibre gasket. It also took a fair bit of prying and cleaning with the Dremmel to get the surface prepped for the new gasket. With hindsight perhaps a bit of a soak with WD40 may have helped?

Pic is from my photo record of the tear down of my March 1996 Pro showing groove after gasket removed.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Added the pressure profiling kit today thanks to @coffeechap truly enlightening! 
first shot I pulled was preinfused nicely at 2bar, but could barely hit 5bar on the main extraction, probably due to some channeling.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

TomHughes said:


> Added the pressure profiling kit today thanks to @coffeechap truly enlightening!
> first shot I pulled was preinfused nicely at 2bar, but could barely hit 5bar on the main extraction, probably due to some channeling.


 From what I've read I don't think you'll get much higher than 6bar with a manual lever


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> From what I've read I don't think you'll get much higher than 6bar with a manual lever


 I've seen a few videos going to 9-10 bar but the lever was almost bending!

I've just realised I was never getting rid of the 'false pressure' that might explain my crappy shots.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

You can get 9bar, even more. I've tried it myself on the lever day last year on one of CoffeeChap's machine.

Now, it's an incredible amount of force. It's not your usual Pavoni pull, that's for sure!


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## lhavelund (Dec 28, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> You can get 9bar, even more. I've tried it myself on the lever day last year on one of CoffeeChap's machine.
> 
> Now, it's an incredible amount of force. It's not your usual Pavoni pull, that's for sure!


That jump from the shop down the stairs onto the lever doesn't count!









Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Best pour on the La Pavoni yet! 
getting the hang of the pressure purging, dosing, light tamp and pressure profiling,

Pre-infuse at 2bar for 20 seconds. Refill chamber, 40 second pour at 8 bar, 16.5g in 38g out. Then ruined it with milk 

yum yum.


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