# Why is VST rated so highly.......



## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

I am new to the forum and in the process of placing an order for a decent machine and grinder, so in the meantime I am satisfying my lust for somewhere near the Holy Grail in scouring the forum, time permitting, in doing so I note several references to like minded people swapping out the machine manufacturers porta filters and baskets in favour of a VST replacement.

What is so different that warrants such a change ?.

Jon-Willy.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

In short, consistency.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

VST baskets are made consistently, so someone with a 18g VST basket will have one exactly the same as yours.

They are made for a specific dose, with a 1g tolerance.

Once you master it, it provides consistency in your extractions, and will reveal any flaws

As it extracts more evenly due to greater surface and extraction area, you get better tasting coffee and subtle flavours are more noticeable.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Switching to VSTs doesn't automatically produce better coffee. Baskets are engineered to higher tolerances than stock baskets. There is a learning curve with VSTs - they are unforgiving of sloppy barista technique. But if you are looking to get the best out of your shot and are prepared to focus on weighing in/out, distribution and tamping consistency - they have few rivals.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

they also work well with precision tampers (such as 58,5 mm ones)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

shape and more holes, more even holes across the basket> allowing a finer grind to be used > increased extraction ( if you have a grinder capable of delivering this )


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Stanic said:


> they also work well with precision tampers (such as 58,5 mm ones)


Good point.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> more even holes across the basket> allowing a finer grind to be used > increased extraction


the possibility of using a finer grind is very important with lighter roasts


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Many Thanks Folks for that insight, I just found it strange investing so much into a machine that the manufacturers fail to fine tune such a small, yet important item, but inexpensive taking the machine as a whole.

Please excuse me not responding after several posts but obviously I failed to select the right tick box to be notified of replies ....... where is the little tinker ?.

Jon-Willy


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

xpresso said:


> Many Thanks Folks for that insight, I just found it strange investing so much into a machine that the manufacturers fail to fine tune such a small, yet important item, but inexpensive taking the machine as a whole.
> 
> Please excuse me not responding after several posts but obviously I failed to select the right tick box to be notified of replies ....... where is the little tinker ?.
> 
> Jon-Willy


If you think thats strange, what about the tampers that come or don't come with machines.... These are shite


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> If you think thats strange, what about the tampers that come or don't come with machines.... These are shite


I'm still trying to work out what to do with my crappy double ended plastic thing. It has to have some viable use but it certainly isn't tamping.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Really bit of Lube,haha


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Mrboots2u said:


> If you think thats strange, what about the tampers that come or don't come with machines.... These are shite


Mmmmm that makes you think what you should actually use it for ..







.

Jon-Willy


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

the 58.5mm Torr sharp-edge tampers are a really nice fit.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Stanic said:


> they also work well with precision tampers (such as 58,5 mm ones)


58.4 or 58.5 fits well


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

Interesting so will, a double shot 18g VST basket fit my handle on Rocket R58? are they all the same in will fit any handle?


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Yes, 58mm 18g VST will fit it


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

lee1980 said:


> Interesting so will, a double shot 18g VST basket fit my handle on Rocket R58? are they all the same in will fit any handle?


 yep still a E61 group head do you have a Neked one?


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

Jony said:


> yep still a E61 group head do you have a Neked one?


I do have rocket naked one to, but stopped using and really needed to master more with normal double shot handle.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

igm45 said:


> Yes, 58mm 18g VST will fit it


So can I draw from this that it's the VST baskets that are the important factor and not the filter holder ?, and there is still clearance, just, when using a 58.5 tamp.

Jon-Willy


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## CageyH (Oct 8, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> If you think thats strange, what about the tampers that come or don't come with machines.... These are shite


The tamper that came with my ECM Synchronika is not too shabby at all.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

xpresso said:


> So can I draw from this that it's the VST baskets that are the important factor and not the filter holder ?, and there is still clearance, just, when using a 58.5 tamp.
> 
> Jon-Willy


58.5mm tamper fits all sizes of VST baskets perfectly.


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## EricC (Apr 25, 2011)

Yes, in response to post #20


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

xpresso said:


> So can I draw from this that it's the VST baskets that are the important factor and not the filter holder ?, and there is still clearance, just, when using a 58.5 tamp.
> 
> Jon-Willy


Also, not all oem (one supplied with the machine) baskets are made equal in quality.

LM users get better stock baskets than others.

My ECM came with a very good stock basket.


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Can anyone recommend the best place to buy good value reasonable baskets for my fracino Classico?


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

For my R58, can I use VST for naked holder to? is so whats best ridged or ridgeless? then its either 18 or 22g. I have had mine since July so still a newbie lol.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

lee1980 said:


> For my R58, can I use VST for naked holder to? is so whats best ridged or ridgeless? then its either 18 or 22g. I have had mine since July so still a newbie lol.


Using it in a naked pf is probably the best idea.

As to what size basket it depends on what your usual dose is. 22g will probably REQUIRE a naked pf.

18g seems to be the most popular size


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

igm45 said:


> Using it in a naked pf is probably the best idea.
> 
> As to what size basket it depends on what your usual dose is. 22g will probably REQUIRE a naked pf.
> 
> 18g seems to be the most popular size


Until our kit arrives I'm hoping to learn from the forum, so many of my questions may appear juvenile, please bear with me.

An 18 or 22g basket, can I take it that a 22g basket is not best used for both capacities as the lesser weight of the two would see a greater gap from the shower head and a breakup of the tamped coffee ?.

I did note in one thread to check the clearance by placing a coin on the tamp and offer up the PF then remove and check for an imprint OR not, I may have answered my own question but best be assured.

Jon-Willy


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

xpresso said:


> Until our kit arrives I'm hoping to learn from the forum, so many of my questions may appear juvenile, please bear with me.
> 
> An 18 or 22g basket, can I take it that a 22g basket is not best used for both capacities as the lesser weight of the two would see a greater gap from the shower head and a breakup of the tamped coffee ?.
> 
> ...


VST are +-1g IMS seem more flexible:

https://www.coffeehit.co.uk/ims-precision-filter-basket-18-22g.html


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

No questions are juvenile - we've all been there at some point. VST baskets have a supposed dose tolerance of plus or minus one gram. I dose my 18grm VST with 17grms of coffee - that's just my preference. You're right about puck clearance. For even saturation of the puck, there has to be some head space so it can expand during preinfusion or the beginning of extraction if the machine doesn't have a pre-infusion option. If you can see an imprint on the puck after extraction, the puck has come into contact with the shower plate. Solution is to dose a little less with that particular basket.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Many Thanks Folks, we are looking forward to the learning curve and challenge ahead.

Jon-Willy


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## RobW (Dec 24, 2017)

I dose 18g in my 18g VST basket and on my Rancilio Silvia that fits perfectly. I have a flush shower screen now but when I had the stock one I got a slight impression from the screw so I'd say that was the right amount of clearance.

I don't get my some people say these baskets are finicky. With an accurate dose weight I find very little variation in shot quality and extraction time.

The increase in flavour extraction over the stock Silvia basket is huge.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

RobW said:


> I don't get my some people say these baskets are finicky. With an accurate dose weight I find very little variation in shot quality and extraction time.


More so with lighter roasts where you have to grind finer to achieve decent extraction yields. Grinding finer requires more attention to distribution and tamping to ensure consistent extractions.


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

RobW said:


> I dose 18g in my 18g VST basket
> 
> I don't get my some people say these baskets are finicky. With an accurate dose weight I find very little variation in shot quality and extraction time.


It seems your skills are up there to get along well with the vst.

I hear many people say 18g is forgiving, 15g vst is the devil.

I've never used the 15g so can't speak for sure, but my 18g VST, if anything, is more forgiving than my stock double basket (which I really, honestly believe is as good as the vst).

I guess smaller the dose, less margin of error affordable for puck prep..


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Yep.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

VST are easy AF to use. If you have a finely tuned Mythos. And a snug tamp. And good technique. And patience. And a good temperament. And a ready disposal of souls to sacrifice to the extraction gods.

I love them.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

VST also autocorrects to BEST on my phone and that says all you need to know!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Well when I read it I did have a smile to myself,haha



Scotford said:


> VST also autocorrects to BEST on my phone and that says all you need to know!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

15g vst here, usually dose 15.3g. It is just right for our Acme flat white cups (190ml).

Just seem to get shot after shot of yumminess!


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