# Espresso / Water / Milk ratios



## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

anyone have some guidelines on the ratios for different drinks

especially interested in americano's as thats what i drink but i need to know the others too

i bought some 7oz cups from Ikea the other week and at the moment they are getting 1 shot of espresso with water and milk, i think with 2oz in they might be too strong but ive not tried it yet


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)




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## lucky13 (Dec 30, 2011)

How do you approach preparing the milk for the different drinks?

Currently I can only manage a nice layer of microfoam at the top of the drink... under the above classing i'm not sure what that would be classed as.

When it refers to steamed milk, is that just hot milk with no texture?

When it refers to milk foam, does it mean micro foam?

How do you approach the different levels of foam/milk?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

When it shows a distinction between milk foam (microfoam) and steamed milk (yes, hot milk, but IMO with a very slight element of air incorporated), this is kinda how it looks after you have poured it and it has come to rest in the cup. But when you're steaming the milk the difference between, say, a latte and a cappuccino, where the latter has more foam, simply comes down to stretching the milk more. In both cases, when the milk is still in the pitcher it should not be separated, and instead should be nicely integrated into one single mass of voluminous foamy milky loveliness that looks like a tin of white paint. Achieving that is part of the skill to be attained by a barista.


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## lucky13 (Dec 30, 2011)

Cool, as I've been trying to work out quite how you split a cappa into a 1:1:1 for example. But i'm guessing the real difference is in the thikness of the paint? thicker paint will give you a cappa, thiner paint a latte....

Am I along the correct lines here?

So in addition would you say that the size and shape of the cup may have alot to do with weather you have a cappa or a latte?

6oz cup with a 2oz shot may give a cappa, where as a 10oz cup with a 2oz shot would be a latte? or was I closer with the thick/thin paint analogy?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Flat white is an interesting one!


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Yes. There are some pouring techniques that will also help ... such as pouring from the spout for a latte to hold back the foam, and pouring off the side of the jug for a cappuccino... but I wouldn't worry about that for the moment.

Size... yes. Cup sizes have been discussed in other threads but basically a cappuccino comes in a smaller cup than a latte, is stronger because it has proportionately less milk and more foam (foam having a larger amount of air, and hence less liquid). But the definitions of latte and cappuccino are a different debate and I feel like in some good modern '3rd wave' shops (versus traditionalists, and also versus crap shops) these names and definitions are losing favour a little.

http://youngandfoodish.com/coffee/2009-world-barista-champion-gwilym-davies-is-done-with-lattes-and-flat-whites/

Have a look for the other threads. 6oz with a double shot could be a cappuccino, but a single shot is also, as is a double shot in an 8oz. Opinions vary depending upon which ethos you're loyal to.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

There is also another factor determining ratios... What tastes nice?

I tried 2oz espresso 2 oz steamed milk (approximately) and it was so delicious and strong.

For me the lower the ratio the better.


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## lucky13 (Dec 30, 2011)

Thank you, you have cleared my cloudy little mind. I'll have a crack at the old side pour later to see what happens.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Cool. A side pour will often make something like this relatively easy... it's a bit old school but good to be able to do.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

OK Here is the way things are done at my place! All shots are 'doubles', well erm approx 21-25g extractions depending upon input dose!

Not strictly in accordance to any industry standards, this is what we call the drinks and the actual volume of liquid each one holds....I never steam my milk any differently for any drink either I cant be arsed (only the amount of milk I steam changes)

Espresso - nadda additivo

Macchiato - 'marked with microfoam' no liquid added, just a dollop of paint

Cortado - 50/50 espresso and steamed milk

Piccolo - espresso + enough steamed milk to fill the glass, usually a heart on top

Cappuccino - espresso + enough steamed milk to fill the cup , usually a heart on top

**Americano - espresso on top of approx 130ml hot water in the same cup as Cappa - personally prefer brewed coffee so these are usually only for guest's benefit**

Flat white - espresso + enough steamed milk to fill the cup, usually a tulip type thing on top (see #freepourfriday)

Latte - espresso + enough steamed milk to fill the beaker, usually a tulip type thing on top

My Macchiato recipient is actually a Jing tea-glass, double-walled and great for capturing the aroma of espresso, I sometimes use it to assess a new bean or blend as pure espresso.

The Latte beaker is a bodum double walled, insulated item which we sometimes use for hot choc


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

so what would you say the ratio is on that for americano, 3:1 or maybe 4:1 ?

considering at least 1oz of the cup would be empty, maybe another 1oz would be my milk, leaving probably 5oz of space, so 4oz water 1oz espresso which is what im doing now seems about right ?

anyone know what starbucks/costa/nero use ?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

It really depends how much you want to dilute it. 1:3 or 1:4 is about right but a long black is a version of an americano with less water.


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## lucky13 (Dec 30, 2011)

@garydyke1 thank you great post


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

lucky13 said:


> @garydyke1 thank you great post


Its the geek in me


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