# Bottomless Portafilter spraying coffee everywhere



## yossarian

Hi,

I recently changed over to using a bottomless portafilter. At first it was fine, worked better and had a nice flow in the middle as long as I managed to get the grind and tamp right. Now it seems to have a smaller flow in the middle and some fine random sprays that go off at the side and make a mess of the wall. Sometimes some of the coffee will flow onto the handle of the portafilter holding thing too. When its particularly bad I notice there is water on top of the coffee in the filter so I wonder if its that I have not got the right grind and tamp for the beans I am using now?

I also need to descale the machine, not done that yet and its a hard water area.


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## DannyMontez

I think that'll be the grind or tamp mate. I get the same problem sometimes which is just another reason for me to upgrade.


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## Glenn

Make sure you are forming a good seal with clean gaskets and also all the excess grinds brushed off the rim of the basket

Mostly the spray is indicative of a poor tamp or distribution


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## m4lcs67

I got a new Gaggia bottomless portafilter a few weeks ago myself and posted that I had similar problems to you. I still am not 100% there yet but the advice I got was to make sure that you tamp well and also stirring the ground coffee to prevent channeling and help with distribution. What grinder are you using? I get small cubes coming out with my Mignon, so I have to always stir and break it up before putting it into the portafilter. Once you have nailed it, it will be great, but unfortunately it needs practice at the beginning. It is one of those things that doesn't happen overnight.


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## Eyedee

Get some cheepo throwaway plastic drink cups, use one to grind into, cut another one so it fits your PF and use it as a dosing funnel. It's sorted me out with clumping and distibution plus it makes weighing your grind dead easy.

Available from Poundland .

Ian


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## Charliej

As the other have said grind and distribution are key here, it's important to remember that every lot of beans need dialling in, some may need a large change others not so much, but even a new batch of the same coffee you just finished will need the grind fine tuning.

What grinder and tamper are you using? if it's still the nasty throwaway plastic thing then throw it away and buy a real tamper.


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## 4085

Hi John, long time no see!


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## yossarian

Hi, My grinder is a La Cimbali Max Hybrid and I got a metal tamper from happy donkey with the portafilter. There is a bit of clumping which I try to sort out with a staple. Perhaps I should try the plastic cup tip to make it sit in the portafilter more evenly though, I can see how that could be an issue at the moment.

I had not done a very good job of keeping the grinder clean so I put through 2 doses of this stuff: https://www.happydonkey.co.uk/puly-grind-grinder-blade-cleaning-powder/

Whats concerning me now is that I cant seem to get the last bits of crystals out. I just bought some new beans and ground up a couple of portafilters worth to clean out the crystals but there is still bits of white crystal in the grind. I don't want to waste loads of these lovely beans on cleaning the grinder. Can I still make coffee if there is a bit left or is there another way to get rid of this cleaning stuff?


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## Mrboots2u

Gonna sound patronising now apologies but other than take the machine apart and clean it ? Or Can you get a Hoover nozzle in there somewhere ?

Or run loads of coffee through it and hope it blows out the retained crystal .


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## Charliej

yossarian said:


> Hi, My grinder is a La Cimbali Max Hybrid and I got a metal tamper from happy donkey with the portafilter. There is a bit of clumping which I try to sort out with a staple. Perhaps I should try the plastic cup tip to make it sit in the portafilter more evenly though, I can see how that could be an issue at the moment.
> 
> I had not done a very good job of keeping the grinder clean so I put through 2 doses of this stuff: https://www.happydonkey.co.uk/puly-grind-grinder-blade-cleaning-powder/
> 
> Whats concerning me now is that I cant seem to get the last bits of crystals out. I just bought some new beans and ground up a couple of portafilters worth to clean out the crystals but there is still bits of white crystal in the grind. I don't want to waste loads of these lovely beans on cleaning the grinder. Can I still make coffee if there is a bit left or is there another way to get rid of this cleaning stuff?


You can actually drink the coffee with the residue of the grind crystals in as it is food safe and supposedly inert tasting, other than that try the hoover I guess. I generally tend to just strip a grinder down to the burr chamber to clean thoroughly, but very very occasionally if I'm feeling massively lazy I'll put a dose of Grindz through it and usually a couple of doses after thats all ground is enough to get rid of of any left over bits.


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## yossarian

I tried hoovering it already but there was still some crystals left. I was hoping to get away without taking the burrs apart as the cleaning crystals page said that you could use them to avoid having to take the whole thing apart. I know I need to do that at some point though.

If they are inert as Charlie says then its not a problem then. I was wondering whether I would have to run rice through or something to clean it out so its a relief I wont have to.


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## Jonathan007

Would the fact the Classic comes with such a high pressure rating (for use with a pressurised basket) be a factor here?

Maybe the OPV mod would help?


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## Neill

Jonathan007 said:


> Would the fact the Classic comes with such a high pressure rating (for use with a pressurised basket) be a factor here?
> 
> Maybe the OPV mod would help?


The higher pressure was never that big a deal when it came to naked portafilter used prior to reducing it in my experience.


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## yossarian

Ok so all is well now. The last bits of cleaning crystal came out and the flow is better again with the portafilter now I have cleaned everything and got some new beans. They are some of the nicest beans I have tried too (Monmouth coffee brazilian espresso I think, they put the wrong label on so can't be sure). Thanks for the advice everyone.


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## yossarian

Actually all is not well, Im getting the same problem again now. I have been trying different grind combos (between 5.75 and 7 on the La Cimbali Max hybird) and tamping at different pressures but still get some coffee coming out of the bottom of the filter (not the sides) at crazy angles spraying on the walls. It seems to either take ages and extract with little crema or wash through far too quickly and barely be espresso. Either way I get tend to get some side spraying at some point during extraction. Iv tried two different baskets in there too - my old double one and the triple that came with the bottomless portafilter. It seems like this is a worse problem now the beans are a week older.

I will try the cup thing although I think I get fairly even distribution by stirring with the paper clip. Any other ideas? Should I try further out of my grinding band?


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## Charliej

yossarian said:


> Actually all is not well, Im getting the same problem again now. I have been trying different grind combos (between 5.75 and 7 on the La Cimbali Max hybird) and tamping at different pressures but still get some coffee coming out of the bottom of the filter (not the sides) at crazy angles spraying on the walls. It seems to either take ages and extract with little crema or wash through far too quickly and barely be espresso. Either way I get tend to get some side spraying at some point during extraction. Iv tried two different baskets in there too - my old double one and the triple that came with the bottomless portafilter. It seems like this is a worse problem now the beans are a week older.
> 
> I will try the cup thing although I think I get fairly even distribution by stirring with the paper clip. Any other ideas? Should I try further out of my grinding band?


When you say "grinding band" do you mean that so far all the beans you have used in the grinder have worked somewhere within that range of settings? If so try going finer and see how that works, compensate for the finer grind by not tamping quite as hard. Do you do anything else to the coffee in the basket other than stirring with a staple before tamping? e.g knock the whole portafilter to settle the grinds, flatten the mound of coffee with a finger etc?

Go back to 1st principles and forget any fancy rituals, grind the coffee, (I'm assuming your grinder is a doser version) dose the coffee into the basket, then just tamp straight down on the mound of coffee, a convex base tampers really does help at this point but isn't critical. Whatever is going wrong sounds like some sort of distribution issue, which shouldn't be much of a problem with a dosered grinder, the doser should take care of any clumps and distribution in the basket. If any clumps are loosely held together don't worry about them, tamping will sort those out. Simply stirring with a staple after dosing the portafilter could undo the good work a doser should do, so by going back to basics and eliminating steps in your prep routine allows you to work out what is causing the issues.


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## Gangstarrrrr

Could the burrs be knackered?


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## yossarian

Charliej said:


> When you say "grinding band" do you mean that so far all the beans you have used in the grinder have worked somewhere within that range of settings? If so try going finer and see how that works, compensate for the finer grind by not tamping quite as hard. Do you do anything else to the coffee in the basket other than stirring with a staple before tamping? e.g knock the whole portafilter to settle the grinds, flatten the mound of coffee with a finger etc?
> 
> Go back to 1st principles and forget any fancy rituals, grind the coffee, (I'm assuming your grinder is a doser version) dose the coffee into the basket, then just tamp straight down on the mound of coffee, a convex base tampers really does help at this point but isn't critical. Whatever is going wrong sounds like some sort of distribution issue, which shouldn't be much of a problem with a dosered grinder, the doser should take care of any clumps and distribution in the basket. If any clumps are loosely held together don't worry about them, tamping will sort those out. Simply stirring with a staple after dosing the portafilter could undo the good work a doser should do, so by going back to basics and eliminating steps in your prep routine allows you to work out what is causing the issues.


Yeah all the espresso I made I used that range. I found when I went finer before it was choking the machine a bit. The machine has a doser although I usually just pull the lever repeatedly until the portafilter reaches the level I aim for. I used to weigh the portafilter and then add the ground coffee and weigh again to reach 18g but to be honest I dont like throwing the coffee away and so I now just fill it till it reaches the level I am used to. I know this isn't ideal practice but it seems to be the best comprimise for using this machine that isnt designed for making one shot a day. I don't quite understand how the doser works actually as I cant get hold of a manual. Is there a way to adjust it so it would give me a bigger dose? Whatever it is set to now seems far too low. Apologies for my ignorance here!

Anyway, I tried a finer grind at 4 just now and had interesting results. It took about a minute to pull the shot and I think was over extracted (little crema, a bit bitter) with a light tamper. To be fair I did over fill it a bit by accident as I was trying to use the doser properly and failing. I didn't get any side spraying though so I think I will try somewhere in between the grind and play around with dosage again.

I think the burrs should be okish, I got this from a forum member via ebay and if I recall correctly he said there should be some wear left in them. The grind looks even to me although I don't know much about this stuff yet.

Thanks for the help again I will update once I have experimented a bit more.


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## Kofe

You can put white rice through a coffee grinder to clear it out. Apparently.


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## Neill

Kofe said:


> You can put white rice through a coffee grinder to clear it out. Apparently.


Needs to be minute rice not just any white rice.


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## Kofe

Ok that's clarified what I read then. : ))


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