# What is the best level to start at?



## NewDJ (Feb 11, 2021)

Hi, I lived in central London for years and was spoilt being able to walk to so many fantastic places to get a coffee (Prufrock, Workshop (used to be St.Ali ), Monmouth. I've always loved coffee and while I do not have the knowledge or palette of the members here, I really miss being able to get an amazing coffee (I moved a couple of years ago).

I have decided (hoped) that the best way to get better coffee is to start making it myself and have been researching which machine and grinder to buy for ages. The difficulty I am having is choosing the machine. I thought that some of the entry models might actually be harder to learn on (while I recognise the heat surfing might be a rite of passage, I don't see how that as a skill it can improve my espresso making later on).

I always have either a latte, flat white or ice lattes in the summer. It is unlikely that I would make more than 2 or 3 drinks a day (very often less). I am pretty methodical and like the idea of learning to try and dial in the best espresso I can so I thought something with a PID (to help with consistency) and good steam ability would suit my needs (because I am not planning on drinking straight espresso).

I have decided on the Niche Zero grinder (if I can get one) but where I have hit a wall is that I could go for Lelit Grace or something of a similar level (PID, pre-infusion) but would (could) I get substantially better results with something at the level of a Lelit Mara X or Elizabeth?

Because this is the first purchase, I was trying to keep my budget for the machine at around £5-600 but could go higher to around £1000 but don't know if it would be worth me spending the extra money. I appreciate that much of the outcome is going to based on my learning and practise but all other things being equal will spending the extra money be worth it (either immediately or in the long run). Or have I got it all wrong and a Gaggia Classic Pro is the way to go? Thank you.


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## stevie6 (Feb 10, 2021)

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/57981-which-lelit-for-a-complete-beginner/?do=embed

I started the above earlier this evening.

Some answers there to your similar question.

I still haven't decided. Grace or Elizabeth? Not sure yet.


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## NewDJ (Feb 11, 2021)

stevie6 said:


> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/57981-which-lelit-for-a-complete-beginner/?do=embed
> 
> I started the above earlier this evening.
> 
> ...


 Stevie6, thank you for linking me to your question. You're were right, it does deal with many of my questions. Our position is almost identical save for the fact I am not wedded to the idea of a Lelit, it was more using their wider range of machines to demonstrate my dilemma (but that said, I keep coming back to them and they would be at the top of my list).

As I have thought about it more, it seems to me that while I like the idea of dialling in shots and getting the best coffee I can, this would not be the beginning of a new hobby for me (or at least, not something I would spend hours a week on). I would like to get a new bag of coffee, find the best grind I can and stick with that for a week until I got a new bag and so on.

I think my answer might be this (I would welcome any view if I am right or not)... I think the usual 'starting point' of a Gaggia Classic etc, would be useful if someone was thinking of starting a new hobby and does not want to spend a great deal of money finding out of it is for them or not, the difficulty this presents for me is, I think it would create a steeper learning curve that ironically, could put people off the hobby (temperature surfing etc) and would mean that I would be limiting my chances of making a good espresso.

Because I think I do not need the new hobby, and by bypassing the usual beginner stage, to a more consistent machine it would help me get better outcomes more often. In my mind at least (considering my expected use) I love the look of the Mara X but the Elizabeth seems to offer that little more practicality and precision but the duel boiler might be overkill. I will be doing milky drinks (always) so I think I need an Elizabeth but with a heat exchange boiler not a duel boiler... is that the Grace??

Daniel


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## CraigS (Feb 9, 2021)

NewDJ,

what's your budget ?

I had a similar story to yours except I've been using a Delonghi for the last 2 years and just upgraded to a MaraX

As you like milk based coffees it kind of rules out single boiler/ thermoblock machines unless you're willing to wait a while in between shots and steaming milk but you'll still have inconsistencies to deal with.

I still have a lot to learn on steaming milk but so far with the MaraX the difference has been huge having instant steam power on tap from having the 1.8L boiler

Craig


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

NewDJ said:


> I will be doing milky drinks (always) so I think I need an Elizabeth but with a heat exchange boiler not a duel boiler... is that the Grace??
> 
> Daniel


 That's the MaraX Daniel. It's a nice little machine! Only "downside" of a lever-actuated E61 machine such as the MaraX to a Gaggia is having to periodically do some lubrication on the cam lever which could be a bit tedious but it's pretty quick to do. If that doesn't bother you (it's not that frequently required, only after backflushing with detergent, so every few weeks), then it hardly has downsides for a beginner!


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## NewDJ (Feb 11, 2021)

CraigS said:


> NewDJ,
> 
> what's your budget ?
> 
> ...


 I was hoping to spend around £600 on the machine but could go up to around £1000 or a bit more if it got me a machine that better suited my needs and provided a better outcome.

You have hit the nail on the head with the single boiler type machines, although I think that I could handle waiting for the steam because I would not be making many a day it is more about the inconsistencies for me.

Daniel


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## CraigS (Feb 9, 2021)

I think dual boiler or MaraX would definitely help to reduce any inconsistencies.

The Elizabeth has some nice software features and likely faster warmup but the steam boiler is 800ml compared to the MaraX's 1800ml meaning less steam output if you ever needed to produce more milk drinks for friends etc.

Also, as the MaraX has the e61 group you can buy plenty of upgrades later on down the line such as a flow valve for profiling.

I was thinking about a Rancilio at first but then went for the MaraX for similar reasons to you and I love the combination of it being more 'mechanical' and classic yet still being easy to use thanks to the clever programming.

You'll also need to factor in a grinder too


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## stevie6 (Feb 10, 2021)

Been reading and watching more reviews today. Hard to decide if I would care about the smaller, non-standard filters on the Lelit Grace. Suspect if I did ever want to upgrade stuff, I'd know enough by then to go and get another more capable machine. My fear is that would be about a month or two. And also unsure of waiting another minute for steam with a single boiler would trouble me at all - very possible. Probably best for me to just skip that lower level - just in case. My budget can stretch to a good bit over £1000 if I really have to go there.

So I am thinking Lelit Elizabeth again. And then I read a review of the ACS Minima - and that looks good too. It is narrower than the Elizabeth, which might suit me. But, like the Lelit Marax, not available to buy anywhere.

I am now thinking I may just use up my current stocks of Nespresso pods and get some ground coffee for Aeropress and postpone making a decision until I run out and maybe stocks of machines get back to sensible levels. Might take few weeks / months - who knows. Or I might just impulse buy the Elizabeth and save having to think about this much more! Knowing my luck, I'll make that decision and they'll be out of stock that day too.

I've put my name down for a Niche grinder. But still got to think about what to get in the meantime.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Best level is a minima










Jokes aside

If your looking at the mara or the Elizabeth go for the liz, its a better future proof machine, the minima is worth a look though, its like the Elizabeth just bit better ????????????


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

stevie6 said:


> So I am thinking Lelit Elizabeth again. And then I read a review of the ACS Minima - and that looks good too. It is narrower than the Elizabeth, which might suit me. But, like the Lelit Marax, not available to buy anywhere.


 If you want a good steamer and stability of a PID it's between the Elizabeth and Minima. If you want a steaming powerhouse and E61 group, get the Minima. I don't think it will be too long before @BlackCatCoffee gets new stock in.


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## NewDJ (Feb 11, 2021)

After much thought, I reduced my list to the Elizabeth or Mara X.

I would suggest to any person faced with indecision like mine to read all of @DavecUK reviews and watch all his videos. I have done so focussing on the two machines above. Beyond that I have also read the forum post for the Elizabeth and have tried to be really focused on what I need/want out of an espresso machine. One thing that I ought to say is that I have been so impressed with the help and support members provide to each other in the 'New upgraded Lelit on the block - Elizabeth' forum (whether that be to a new or experienced user), it is so refreshing to see real support provided with no eye rolling, particularly to people like me, with no experience (thank you in particular to @MediumRoastSteam)

Back to which I want, I have found it hard to divorce what would suit me best from what the machine looks like. To my eye at least, I love the look of the Mara X, I can imagine that whatever the result in the cup, it would taste better to me on that factor alone!

I am sure that I will not be the first person to say this, but I have relaxed my budget from when I started my research (when I first got the idea, I thought I could do it all for £500!!).

I have said before that I am quite a methodical person. By what I have read, I feel that making good espresso is a bit like photography, where each adjustable factor may have a positive or negative effect on the end result and the art is in the balance!

I feel that to have the best chance of achieving the balance is with a machine that provide consistency and measurability. I think that the Elizabeth will help me in a methodical approach where variables can be identified and learned from (save for learning the skills to tamp/stream etc). I will only be drinking milk drinks so I think the steaming capability will be more than I need. I will still be learning what type of coffee I enjoy, and the Elizabeth seems to be able to deal with a wider range of roasts well (2 x pre-infusion etc). Finally, the size suits my kitchen more and not having the heat of an exposed E61 group head is an advantage to me.

So as hard as it is, ignoring the aesthetics and trying to be realistic, I have decided to go with the Elizabeth as I think it fits what suits me the most.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The great thing is...they're both excellent.

Thanks for watching all my videos..you must be a glutton for punishment 🤣

P.S. I hope you saw the latest one of Ernie and the thumb game, must not miss what's really important


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## NewDJ (Feb 11, 2021)

No, I have not see the thumb game but I have seen this, and now I think I back to square one!!!


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

NewDJ said:


> No, I have not see the thumb game but I have seen this, and now I think I back to square one!!!


 Yet another victim of the Minima.

I think the black looks nicer with the wooden details though. On the other hand, black/white chassis already cost an additional £100 over stainless steel, seems a bit steep to add another £100 on top for a couple wooden bits.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

The handles are gloss, not matt as in the pic there, the wood is bakerlite not wood


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

Baffo said:


> Yet another victim of the Minima.
> 
> I think the black looks nicer with the wooden details though. On the other hand, black/white chassis already cost an additional £100 over stainless steel, seems a bit steep to add another £100 on top for a couple wooden bits.


 I'm not a fan of the wooden accents to be honest, much prefer the black bakelite. Here is mine for reference with the stainless drip tray:









The Specialita will be replaced with a Niche 😄 I hope...


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

@HVL87 That's a *very well balanced mixture* of black-n-chrome you have there in your setup....i like black; i like chrome...it's a win win win 😎


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

Rincewind said:


> @HVL87 That's a *very well balanced mixture* of black-n-chrome you have there in your setup....i like black; i like chrome...it's a win win win 😎


 Haha thanks, that's what I was going for. Although I don't particularly enjoy keeping the chrome finish clean! If I owned a Crem One, I don't think it would ever get used 😄

Hopefully a Niche won't change balance too much 🤔


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## NewDJ (Feb 11, 2021)

@HVL87 and @Baffo, I thought I had made my mind up about the Elizabeth but looking at the reviews of the Minima it has caused me to pause... the only only real criticism I have seen on (some) of the reviews is the suggestion that the metal work is sharp (not well built) etc. Have you found this to be the case?

I must say I really like the black with black handles, is this finish harder to keep clean?

Many thanks,

Daniel


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

NewDJ said:


> @HVL87 and @Baffo, I thought I had made my mind up about the Elizabeth but looking at the reviews of the Minima it has caused me to pause... the only only real criticism I have seen on (some) of the reviews is the suggestion that the metal work is sharp (not well built) etc. Have you found this to be the case?
> 
> I must say I really like the black with black handles, is this finish harder to keep clean?
> 
> ...


 @HVL87 will surely be able to give you more details than me - at least for a while. I did read pretty often that the metalwork can be sharp, but not so sharp that you can get cut. in @Cuprajake's words, if you get annoyed at the small details, then it might bother you. But I'd say it's not going to hurt you, if that's what worries you.

Another potential issue - that might not be exclusive to the stainless finish, but I guess it might be worse - is rusting, which should not happen at all, but apparently the machine laser cuts can leave some areas to be prone to rust. And likewise, the drip tray is a bit wonky - but again @Cuprajake has modded it and can share some info. You will find examples in the ACS section.

The black is surely easier to clean than the stainless steel. At least with my experience with other machines, the latter can be a real pain as it will show every little fingerprint, every little droplet of coffee, and wiping it can make it worse unless you do it properly.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)




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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)




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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

@Cuprajake out of curiosity, do you have a link for those magnets? Asking for a friend..


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

the tray is a thinner gauge so it has a slight spring, this keeps it tight against the frame, stops any rattling, there's no 'sharp' edges, they may not be beveled, but you're not cutting yourself,

ive found the stock basket to be really well made, and back to back shots show no really difference in terms of shot.

its a cracking machine, and while not as quiet than the elizabeth, it makes up for it with looks imo..less appliance like, not that i wouldn't be happy to own the lelit,


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

@Baffo https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnet-Expert®-Rubber-Coated-Neodymium/dp/B077WTL8FP


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

@NewDJ the machine is always evolving, the boilers are stainless steel and very high quality


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Cuprajake said:


> @Baffo https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnet-Expert®-Rubber-Coated-Neodymium/dp/B077WTL8FP


 Was this you?


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

ive used reef glue, never bought frag plugs though  made my own


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

NewDJ said:


> @HVL87 and @Baffo, I thought I had made my mind up about the Elizabeth but looking at the reviews of the Minima it has caused me to pause... the only only real criticism I have seen on (some) of the reviews is the suggestion that the metal work is sharp (not well built) etc. Have you found this to be the case?
> 
> I must say I really like the black with black handles, is this finish harder to keep clean?
> 
> ...


 The only "sharp" metal work is where the drip tray slides onto. I don't find it that sharp to be honest, it's a non issue as far as I'm concerned - like you this was something I thought about before buying the Minima. I don't really have a problem with the drip tray itself either. The rest of the machine is very solid and it's built like a tank.

Internals:











Baffo said:


> Another potential issue - that might not be exclusive to the stainless finish, but I guess it might be worse - is rusting, which should not happen at all, but apparently the machine laser cuts can leave some areas to be prone to rust. And likewise, the drip tray is a bit wonky - but again @Cuprajake has modded it and can share some info. You will find examples in the ACS section.


 The concern @Cuprajake raised about rust only related to the drip tray. Again not too much of an issue with mine. I guess it depends on what you get when you buy the machine. If you have concerns you can always raise it to the retailer.

The black Minima is powder coated. I would say it's much easier to keep clean than the all stainless steel finish. Although relatively resilient, the only concern is making sure you don't scratch the powder coating. Something to keep in mind. For example where the drip tray meets the main body, I've used a bit of electric tape to ensure the powder coating doesn't wear off.

For me the Minima was eventually a clear winner over the Elizabeth due to its build, very large stainless boilers and solenoid operated E61 group. Just depends on what suits you best really.

I am a new owner so can only provide initial impressions so far.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

fwiw i cleaned the underside of my tray with a scouer and wd40 and its not come back, but black cat said he'd replace if there was an issue


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Was that a "ding/bell" i heard at 1:05 on your workflow vid ? ....did you toss something into the left cup at some point ?

Another nice video matey...take your nightgown off though 😂


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

Rincewind said:


> Was that a "ding/bell" i heard at 1:05 on your workflow vid ? ....did you toss something into the left cup at some point ?
> 
> Another nice video matey...take your nightgown off though 😂


 😂


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

@Rincewind thats the magic pill i give the mrs that allows me to spend way tooo much on coffee equipment 😂😂😂


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Rincewind said:


> Another nice video matey...take your nightgown off though ????












????


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

Rincewind said:


> Another nice video matey...take your nightgown off though 😂


 Maybe take this to PM?


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)




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## NewDJ (Feb 11, 2021)

I got in touch with a reputable seller today, I wanted to buy from a company that would provide proper support after purchase and I have read great reviews about them. I was told that they no longer sell the Minima because they would only sell when on sale and it was the most problematic machine they have ever sold. Because I will only be making milk drinks they suggested the Mara X because the nuances that changing the temperature would provide would be drowned out by the milk, which seems to make sense to me!


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

No guess who that was then...bet they didnt tell you about the marax that have been having issuses.

Fwiw that was an old run of machines were the boiler was overfilling. I too had that worry.

They made a video which imo was deigned to create maximum damage.

Oh and just because your making milk drinks if you put $hite espresso in it they your going to taste it.

For the 940 youd spend on the marax the extra £200 for the Elizabeth or minima is sooooo worth it.


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## Ando (Jan 11, 2021)

Cuprajake said:


> Oh and just because your making milk drinks if you put $hite espresso in it they your going to taste it.


 I can confirm that this is true ...


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

NewDJ said:


> I got in touch with a reputable seller today, I wanted to buy from a company that would provide proper support after purchase and I have read great reviews about them. I was told that they no longer sell the Minima because they would only sell when on sale and it was the most problematic machine they have ever sold. Because I will only be making milk drinks they suggested the Mara X because the nuances that changing the temperature would provide would be drowned out by the milk, which seems to make sense to me!


 We are the retailer for the Minima now and very proud to be. As @Cuprajakesaid, there was an issue with an early batch of machines but ACS are very proactive and resolved it quickly. We have sold many Minimas now and have many happy customers.

They are actually such good sellers we are OOS currently but have more landing shortly!

I am more than happy to talk through the Minima on the phone if you wish. If not, I hope you enjoy whatever you pick.

David


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

NewDJ said:


> I got in touch with a reputable seller today, I wanted to buy from a company that would provide proper support after purchase and I have read great reviews about them. I was told that they no longer sell the Minima because they would only sell when on sale and it was the most problematic machine they have ever sold. Because I will only be making milk drinks they suggested the Mara X because the nuances that changing the temperature would provide would be drowned out by the milk, which seems to make sense to me!


 You've been through the same process as I did. I spoke to the same retailer which did initially put me off. Then I discussed with @DavecUK and @BlackCatCoffee along with a number of existing owners which put my mind to rest. I also spoke with the owner of ACS who you can get in touch with directly on this forum. He did say there were previously issues with the Minima which are resolved and the machines are more efficient now.

Of course any machine can still have issues, and it's good to know we have the support of BlackCatCoffee as well as ACS when needed. DavecUK knows the machine inside out, and is very generous with his help (sorry Dave 😄), so there is quite a good support base on here. Although that goes for the MaraX as well.

The MaraX seems to be having its fair share of issues now; of course it's hard to gauge what percentage of machines sold are problematic. Putting that aside, for me personally the MaraX is no competition for the Minima in terms of repeatability (consecutive milk based drinks) and continuous steaming performance. Both are solid machines though.



Cuprajake said:


> They made a video which imo was deigned to create maximum damage.


 To be fair, I think the video was made when they were still selling the machine - seems like they were just trying to provide honest feedback and highlight pros and cons.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

The problem with choosing "what level to start at", is that:

- entry level (£1-500) machines come with plenty of compromises (usually no PID, lesser than ideal experience in some cases, inability to use pressurised PF, etc), so you think "well, why not get a premium SBDU machine".

- premium SBDU machines (£900+) cost so much more than the previous category, usually have better build quality, and yet they still might not offer an ideal experience *especially for some people who need to make more than 1x coffee at a time*, so you think "well, why not get a MaraX, same price but better experience.

- the MaraX (£1000) does give you the ability to steam on demand, and yet it might struggle a little bit with temperature stability and steam with back-to-back shots. So you think "well, why not get an entry level DB machine".

- entry level DB machines (£1100+) can give you even more bells and whistles, but allegedly come with other compromises (eg the Elizabeth might have small boilers, the Breville DB may have questionable durability, the Minima might have less-than-ideal detailing and had some teething issues, etc). So you think..

It's easy to get caught in this "upgraditus whirlwind" even before starting out. One must come to terms with the fact that no machine at any pricepoint (even £5000+) comes with no compromise whatsoever. You just decide what you are willing to compromise on and what you aren't. For some, the balance will be found with an entry level De Longhi, and for some it might be an entry level DB machine.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Baffo excellent summation


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## NewDJ (Feb 11, 2021)

Baffo said:


> It's easy to get caught in this "upgraditus whirlwind"


 This sums up perfectly how my research has progressed over the last couple of weeks and I have reached the following conclusion.

The entry and premium entry solutions provide many variables that would take lots of practise to overcome. I can see this fun in this but being realistic I do not think I would have the time to devote to it. However, I expect this practice would prove invaluable if one upgraded to a Mara X type machine because more than enough experience would have been obtained to deal the (slight) variables that type of machine. That practice would also help in a more general sense to understand what is happening in the cup. I expect any variable in the Mara X would be beyond my ability to distinguish but I think constancy and ease of use will be met best by the Elizabeth or Minima (I have contacted @BlackCatCoffee through their webpage about the later). On that basis, I have stopped at those two (also because they put me slightly above my top budget)!!

Thank you again for all of your help.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@NewDJ I think you have made some good choices if you want to keep life simple, but still get great shots.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

@NewDJ Keep in mind that in the Elizabeth vs Minima debate (which has recently become a daily occurrence on this board), most people have either strong personal preferences due to their needs and their wants (and I'm not saying that other forum users shouldn't be trusted, just keep this in mind, their needs and wants might differ from yours), or financial interest (and I'm not saying that David at Black Cat or the people at Bella Barista shouldn't advise you, just keep this in mind..)

Wanting to highlight a few differences that are more or less objective, make of this what you will:

- the Elizabeth comes with a longer warranty

- the Elizabeth has a smaller footprint (depth especially)

- the Elizabeth is a more complex machine (ie it uses software and stuff) which can be good (Lelit can update it over time, but "flashing" new firmware could prove to be difficult for users every time there's an update, or could require a new software unit thingy or whatever it is called for some £££.. @DavecUK will probably expand on this) but also means more things can go wrong

- the Elizabeth comes with a few nice features out of the box such as customisable preinfusion BUT the Minima can be upgraded with a flow paddle which (whilst coming at a cost of ca. £200) can give it an edge and put it on par with machines costing far more.

- the Elizabeth has considerably smaller boilers (this is the flipside of the smaller footprint)

- the Elizabeth is far quieter (the Minima can be upgraded with a MaraX pump but still, costs money, time, and should only be done after warranty expires..)

I won't comment on stuff like build quality as I think both are above a reasonably good level, especially for a beginner, whose attention would be better spent on other things such as the aspects above. From a routine maintenance point of view there shouldn't be much of a difference, at least not to a level that I would take into account over the looks of the machine (which to be honest are as important as anything else at this point, both machines are very capable).

As a personal note, which reflects my opinion only, the Minima can be a better platform if you're a handy person who likes to keep equipment for years. After one year you can replace the pump for a quieter one, after two years you can add a flow paddle, etc. With the Elizabeth you have a great machine out of the box but if you find that you'd like bigger boilers you can't quite do much about it. So the Minima is more "modular", if that makes any sense.

If instead you know that you're not handy and/or you might want to sell within 2 years, then the longer and transferrable warranty of the Elizabeth can help you.

If the machines looked exactly the same, I would be in a real pickle having to choose.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

there both good machines and each persons view will vary,

problem is there are very few who have used both of these machines, let alone either of them,

the sound of the elizabeth to minima is quieter, but there both vibe pumps, and lets face it, unless your making brews at silly oclock, 30sec run time isnt going to be an issue, atleast not for me,

i plumbed for the minima forgoing the digital elizabeth purely as it had bigger boilers, boilers that are to be used in the vostok, as 2.5k priced machine...

all you can do, is watch daves internal tour vids and decide which one you want - but either will be a cracking buy


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## NewDJ (Feb 11, 2021)

Thank you all very much for your help and the videos. I have more or less decided on the Minima (but I can see it is £150 more now than the start of the year... more upgraditus??).

Now I just have to find somewhere that it is in stock... (and in steel or black or white!!!)


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

@BlackCatCoffee is the uk distributor and we get forum discount from him, the coloured versions are more expensive, as is adding wood to it


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

@NewDJ it should be in stock by mid March or sooner. Prior to ordering talk with David @BlackCatCoffee and he can help with the discount.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Thanks folks. We haven't changed the price of the stainless Minima since we started stocking it.

Happy to help @NewDJ if you want to go ahead. We are doing everything we can to expedite arrival of machine and hopefully we will have them in a couple of weeks 😁


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## NewDJ (Feb 11, 2021)

@Baffo and @Cuprajake, thanks again, the steel model is still at £1250 so I guess it has gone up from when you got yours. I emailed David last week and was really helpful and explained the issues from last year.

So... Steel, black or white?

Daniel


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

NewDJ said:


> @Baffo and @Cuprajake, thanks again, the steel model is still at £1250 so I guess it has gone up from when you got yours. I emailed David last week and was really helpful and explained the issues from last year.
> 
> So... Steel, black or white?
> 
> Daniel


 The stainless steel model has always been £1250 + any applicable forum discount.

@Cuprajake has the stainless steel version and I have the black (with black handles). I really like the black Minima and I think it's worth the extra £100, although haven't seen the stainless in person. If you go for black, in my opinion the wood trim is not worthwhile.

Ultimately it depends on what you like and what fits well in your kitchen!


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

NewDJ said:


> @Baffo and @Cuprajake, thanks again, the steel model is still at £1250 so I guess it has gone up from when you got yours. I emailed David last week and was really helpful and explained the issues from last year.
> 
> So... Steel, black or white?
> 
> Daniel


 Steel for bling, black for ease of clean, white only if it really suits your home (it's a relatively large appliance, and white is hardly discreet as a colour).

All of this IMO.


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## NewDJ (Feb 11, 2021)

Baffo said:


> Steel for bling, black for ease of clean, white only if it really suits your home (it's a relatively large appliance, and white is hardly discreet as a colour).
> 
> All of this IMO.


 Thanks again, I will let you know how I get on in March.


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

When I asked the opinion of others (going by pictures), many didn't like the appearance of the stainless Minima. It can look quite fussy with the angled body, placement of hot water and steam wand, manometer on the group etc. It is also very shiny. It may look different in person. @Cuprajake may be able to give feedback.

The black body on the Minima provides a nice contrast against the chrome and stainless fittings.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

the stainless isnt chrome nor is it dull, its not like a mirror though


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

Cuprajake said:


> the stainless isnt chrome nor is it dull, its not like a mirror though


 Are you sure? Pretty sure I've seen a clear reflection of you in your playboy gown filming a bottomless shot 😂 not to sound weird or anything..


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

the group is, but not the case


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Not again.. Guys just get a room already.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

^ wrong person,


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## Drinks (Feb 19, 2021)

Having a major case of budget creep looking at the minima as a starting machine. Came here looking for a gaggia - now look what's happened!


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

It makes sense.

At first it may seem counter intuitive, spending so much, but as someone bew to coffee if you can limit most of the variables then its so much easier to get great coffee.

No temp surfing, merry little jiggs or plain praying to the coffee gods.

Same goes for the liz tho too


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Drinks said:


> Having a major case of budget creep looking at the minima as a starting machine. Came here looking for a gaggia - now look what's happened!


 Listen to me, it can get worse. The more days pass until you buy, the worse it gets. There is no way you can get back knowing what you know now. You can only start desiring more.

Buy before it's too late!


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## P1Fanatic (Mar 6, 2021)

Just read all 3 pages and have spent most of it nodding along as this is just my predicament as another decent espresso at home noob. I saw the thread on "upgradeitus" - never mind that it starts with "howdoIstartus" 😆

It's only me and the mrs and she doesn't really drink coffee (maybe the odd latte here and there) and I am also not a huge milk drinker - maybe the odd cappucino or flat white at the weekend but in the week prefer americano or just espresso. That said I would like to cater for friends and family when they pop over.

I was drawn to the Mara X on looks, footprint and reviews as well as the 2yr btb warranty with BB. Also the lack of need for flushing if left too long between shots. The Elizabeth doesnt really float my boat looks wise tbh. I saw the Minima in Silver and it looked ok but in black it looks really great.

One thing I was not aware of with these prosumer espresso machines (probably due to coming from a Lavazza Blue Pod machine and Moka pot background) is the amount of time it takes to heat up so it was a surprise to me to learn that most are around 30mins and folks have all kinds of timer setups for their morning routine. So does the Minima warm up quicker as that may draw me in that direction? And if so why is that - just as its a dual boiler or something else?

Solenoid Operated means push button rather than lever like the Mara X correct?


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

P1Fanatic said:


> Just read all 3 pages and have spent most of it nodding along as this is just my predicament as another decent espresso at home noob. I saw the thread on "upgradeitus" - never mind that it starts with "howdoIstartus" 😆
> 
> It's only me and the mrs and she doesn't really drink coffee (maybe the odd latte here and there) and I am also not a huge milk drinker - maybe the odd cappucino or flat white at the weekend but in the week prefer americano or just espresso. That said I would like to cater for friends and family when they pop over.
> 
> ...


 Yes the Minima is just push button. Or flick switch should I say.

It too takes a long time to heat up though. The E61 group is a big, heavy chunk of metal and it takes time for water from the boiler to syphon round the group and warm it up. The actual water in the boiler of these machine is up to temperature within a few minutes, it is just the rest of the machine that takes the time.

The solutions are to either switch it on 30 mins or so before use with a smart plug or stand and pull water through the group once the boiler hits temperature.

If your schedule is erratic and you want a machine that heats quickly we also stock the Bezzera Crema which has an actively heated group and is ready to go in under 10 minutes. It is a heat exchange machine rather than a dual boiler though.

David


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