# A long term plan to learn roasting?



## MikeHag

My long term (say 3-5 year) goal is that my cafe business will become a micro-roastery too. However, at the moment I have no knowledge of the subject. Could anyone suggest a very high level approach to gaining the relevant skills...AND being good at it?

E.g.

1 start Home roasting

2 lots of cupping

3 followed perhaps by a commercial course at London School of Coffee

4 get commercial machine

(very simplistic, I know.)


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## chimpsinties

Have you thought about just ringing round a few Roasters and seeing if they'll let you hang out with them for a day/morning/afternoon and watch what they do? I'm sure some of the smaller ones won't mind if you approach it from the "bloody keen amateur" side of things.


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## coffeebean

Hi Mike

I have a Toper Cafemino which is a small batch roaster built along the same lines as the larger commercial roasters. Mine is in a cabin in the garden and I sell small quantities to customers at my coffee van, some through the website and also use it for home roasting. What sort of budget do you have? If you want to roast for your cafe - this sort of machine would be great for you! http://www.thecoffeebean-vanandroaster.co.uk/Roastery.html


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## MikeHag

Nice looking bit of kit there! I had a quick look on the Cafemino website... can only see 1kg batch sizes with both the gas and electric roasters... is that what yours is? If so, is it not a bit of a slog roasting enough for selling? No idea, myself... although on reflection, you probably only need to roast maybe 5kg per week for your own use, and another 5-10kg for bagged sales(?) so that's a morning's work perhaps?

Very interested in learning more. It's way too soon for me to make a purchase, as roasting is a 'phase 2' initiative for me and I first need to get the cafe up and running, but it's certainly not too soon to be learning more









Really like the website and your setup, by the way.


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## coffeebean

Cheers Mike! Yes, the Cafemino is a 1kg roaster and it takes around half an hour on average to roast depending on the beans. I use around 4kg on the van and sell a few bags so it's not on 24-7. If the roasting side of things really took off I would have to get a bigger one!! Let me know if there is anything I can help you with setting up the Cafe!


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## MikeHag

Brilliant







Thanks very much for the help.


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## Edward

coffeebean said:


> Cheers Mike! Yes, the Cafemino is a 1kg roaster and it takes around half an hour on average to roast depending on the beans. I use around 4kg on the van and sell a few bags so it's not on 24-7. If the roasting side of things really took off I would have to get a bigger one!! Let me know if there is anything I can help you with setting up the Cafe!


Think I'll have to try yours out. Got 3 kilos or so to finish here first though lol


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## CoffeeMagic

You may be interested in a similar setup to my own, as the combination is designed to support a retail/cafe environment. I use a Solar 2kg roaster coupled to a smoke eliminator. There is a degree of semi-automation in that once your bean/blend profile has been set you can start the roast and it will carry on to cool down if you don't want to interrupt it manually. Sort of copes with consistency of roast and my main interest in this roaster.

I have been roasting for about 2 years now and find that you learn something with almost every batch. Subtle tweaks here and there can dramatically change the result (or turn it to a bag of carbon). There are many variables and would say that the first thing would be to understand the roasting process and what happens within the bean at each stage - roast, first crack, second crack, cooldown - endothermic/exothermic reaction, pirolysis, etc. You could spend a lifetime studying the physics and chemistry of it, but in my view not necessary to produce an outstanding roast. Passion for quality will help there.

As you say, courses are available but there's nothing like hands-on. Happy to answer questions where I can,too.


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## MikeHag

Thanks for the steer, Ron







Being a roasting-virgin I only have a rough idea of what size roaster I'd need, so maybe a 2kg is indeed large enough for my needs. In my head I reckon something like 10kg per week for the cafe plus maybe 5 kilos per week for retail/online sales, but I could be way off. Assuming I need anywhere between 10 and 20kg per week, and initially wanting to roast perhaps only once per week (to minimise setup/cleaning etc), sounds like a 2kg machine would allow me to get it all done in perhaps 4-5 hours all in.

(I'll probably read this again in a few months/years and say to myself "what was I thinking?!")


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## speedstead

chimpsinties said:


> Have you thought about just ringing round a few Roasters and seeing if they'll let you hang out with them for a day/morning/afternoon and watch what they do? I'm sure some of the smaller ones won't mind if you approach it from the "bloody keen amateur" side of things.


Nice idea, I would have thought that the smaller ones might still share the same level of enthusiasm. Best of luck with your project Mike!


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## MikeHag

Thanks









Yeah, I've watched Lisa at CC&T Glasgow a little and chatted to her during roasting, but it's quite difficult to gain someone's trust when they don't know you very well. After all, for all she knows I might be planning to open a roastery just around the corner, despite what I tell her about my chosen location being 90 mins away. I did ask if she thought about running roasting classes and she wasn't averse to the idea, but the problem is just that she doesn't have enough hours in the day for it. (Actually, I don't either right now







)

I'd ask Megan at Artisan Roast but I already know from experience that she's quite protectionist - which I don't mean offensively. This is business, after all.

But I agree that getting to know a roaster somewhere within 100 miles of me would be a good thing. Fiona at Glen Lyon Coffee Roasters might be helpful.


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## CoffeeMagic

It is certainly a good idea, especially if they can describe each stage as it happens and you are getting the visual and aural feedback at the same time. Many won't divulge their 'recipe', since it has probably taken them ages to create and perfect.

Check out Coffee Tech Engineering on facebook to see some of the project photos relating to cafe installations.


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## MikeHag

I guess one could argue that it's a good thing that nowhere in the UK offers a good programme for learning to roast, as it means that the existing roasters can develop their businesses without too much competition. Micro-roasting is a fairly new and growing market and it would be a shame to flood it with badly trained roasters. But still, it's a pain that there isn't something along the lines of the Roasters Guild programme in the US, which seems to be an extremely well thought out, thorough and quality-controlled training scheme - at least on paper.


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## CoffeeMagic

I totally agree. In any business that requires the application of a skill (however learnt) there ought to be an organisation that maintains the standards. In saying that, though, there are some that go overboard in terms of ethics. The only course I know of in UK is the London School of Coffee that runs a commercial roaster course and setting up a roastery.

One of the major hurdles in dealing with home roasting is the variety of machines. Generally they work on the same principles and it would not be too hard to put together something that describes the process. Invariably it also has to get around people's prejudice for one machine or another


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## MikeHag

Yeah, I saw the LSC course and it looks quite insubstantial when you consider that someone is likely to be investing their life savings and future livelihood on the back of 18 hours including breaks. The SCAA definitely seems to have a better grasp on how to help build a skilled workforce than the SCAE, it pains me to say.

If I were an experienced roaster in the UK I'd consider setting up my own thorough training programme. There's a gap in the market.


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