# Salty Coffee help please



## jivemonley (Oct 8, 2020)

Hi, I have a gaggia classic with the addition of a PID and mignon specialita bean grinder.

I have tried exploring ratios and am currently brewing at 94 degrees with app 14.6 grammes of coffee for a double expresso (if I put more coffee in it gets stuck to the gaggia) and extract about 45 to 50 grammes of brewed coffee. I use mineral water.

Despite changing beans a few times I am getting a persistent salty taste. I have gone about as fine as I can with the grind and lightly tamp, but still salty. Any suggestions greatly appreciated becuase after several months of this I am starting to go back to the aeropress because it makes coffee I am happier with!


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## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

What coffee is it?


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## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

Ps reason I ask is you may be buying locally and roast may be light, make sure it's a medium roast leave for 10 days after roasting then raise the temp a bit until you get a nice taste


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## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

Saltiness can be a sign of underextraction. Has your PID got an offset on so 94 at the sensor means 94 at the grouphead. I think the temperature drop is about 8 to 10 degrees from sensor to grouphead so you need to allow for this in selecting the temperature. Try a big temp increase to 102 on the PID and see if that is any better.


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## simontc (May 21, 2014)

Yeah- Matt Perger is the main voice for saltiness being an indication of under extraction. Its strange that you're going for such a long shot and getting major under extract though... you could be getting uneven extraction across your puck I guess? Are your grinds pretty even? How is the espresso coming out (assuming you're using bottomless). What kind of times are you getting to get the amount out??? If its within 30 secs perhaps flow is too fast?? Id expect an 18g to 36 g in 30 or so secs (although I've been known to go up to a minute and still jave good espresso)


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## jivemonley (Oct 8, 2020)

that's will look at PID.. last few coffee has been decadent decaf fee.. tried all of theirs as cutting down of caffeine for health reasons (sadly)


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## jivemonley (Oct 8, 2020)

that's will look at PID.. last few coffee has been decadent decaf fee.. tried all of theirs as cutting down of caffeine for health reasons (sadly)


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## jivemonley (Oct 8, 2020)

not using bottomless, got one, never used it... grind is even.. but it drips initially and after about 10 secs or so starts to trickle through the into the shot glass


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Use your bottomless to help diagnose your issues. I'm thinking you are getting uneven extraction but you won't know without being able to see what is happening to your puck.


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## jivemonley (Oct 8, 2020)

sorry think I added to topic rather than replying, comments below... increased temp now.. should. I use bottomless filter? wondering if actually too fine... the mignon specialita is a dial adjustment that has endless possibilities... which may or may not be a good thing


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## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

jivemonley said:


> sorry think I added to topic rather than replying, comments below... increased temp now.. should. I use bottomless filter? wondering if actually too fine... the mignon specialita is a dial adjustment that has endless possibilities... which may or may not be a good thing


I use this grinder

It's trial and error yes but when the most sensible thing to do is keep it simple, increase temp first than move from there


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## simontc (May 21, 2014)

Using the bottomless just means you can see how the coffee is coming out of the puck... which is tricky to know when using spouted. Youre aiming to see that the whole of the underside is coming through with coffee, and that it pools in centre to come through as one column. If your coffee comes cascading out at a rate of knots from every part if your portafilter then you have problems. A few spurts/the odd double (or even triple) column isnt the end of the world - your coffee will probably still taste ok- but the closer you get to a good looking pour each time the closer you are likely going to be to a tasty cup.

Some coffee is a bugger to work with and spurts no matter what you do it seems - but tastes good.

Give it a go, see if aiming for the archetypal pour helps out!!


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## jivemonley (Oct 8, 2020)

tried to upload a vid but file size an issue... looks okay.. increased temp and it is a little better but still salty.. bottomless looks OK imo


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## simontc (May 21, 2014)

Go for a lower output see if it helps... I very rarely deviate from 1:2 (although have been playing around with 1:5ish long shots based on conversations with roaster at cartwheel/Scott rao videos/the old matt perger coffee shot)


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## jivemonley (Oct 8, 2020)

will try that... still salty after temp increase 🙄


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## simontc (May 21, 2014)

Oh dear.. perhaps its just the dilution level not being a good fit for you

Give it a shot


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Is it indonesian coffee ? sometimes can seem salty. Try a ristretto with your 14.6 pull about 24 gms. Much better to use cheap scales rather than shot glass.

Ristretto should taste sweeter.


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

Have you tried skimming the crema off? I've been experimenting with that recently and been quite surprised by the impact on flavour.


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## jivemonley (Oct 8, 2020)

will look into ristretto

not tried skimming crema off... been experimenting this morning and now seems more bitter with the bottomless but pouring 40g in 30 secs so a contradiction 🤔


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

One view of lightly tamp is 10kg. Dose - might be a good idea to use what others use with the same machine and basket. Or coin test. Tamp etc, place a 5 or 20p coin on offsetting if a screw sticks out from then shower screen, fit portafilter, remove and see how much of an impression the coin has made. Little is about right and less should be ok until the puck gets very wet / muddy.

The bottomless wont make coffee bitter etc. The idea of using them is to see flow out of the base of the basket. In a perfect world it would be even coloured all over all of the time. No colour stripes and variations over time. Some use a shot mirror on the drip tray to make it easier to see, also a torch or light of some sort.

Ratio in and out is something that has to be tried and tasted. Ones that usually work are around 2 2.5 or 3 but beans vary and some may need higher. Shot time needs to be reasonably consistent for the volume out. Scales are the easiest way to check volume out. A 20sec shot is likely to taste different to a 30. 25, 30 and 35 less so.


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## simontc (May 21, 2014)

Not necessarily a contradiction... you might not be liking that concentration... ultimately you will have broadly similar amounts of particles floating about in your coffee, obviously more with a longer pull gets through but the ratio of dilution is different.


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## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

jivemonley said:


> I have tried exploring ratios and am currently brewing at 94 degrees with app 14.6 grammes of coffee for a double expresso (...)
> 
> Despite changing beans a few times I am getting a persistent salty taste. I have gone about as fine as I can with the grind and lightly tamp, but still salty. (...)


 I've noticed I get "salty" flavours if my grind is on the fine side. You're using a low dose (14.6g) so I'll take a guess you grind fine.

I'd suggest an experiment with coarser grind settings (or for even more impact: higher dose in a basket of the matching volume + coarser still). Hopefully you might notice saltiness going away. And then, if needed, further adjustments according to the taste.

Treat what I'm saying with a pinch of salt as I'm a newbie, but I've been getting lots of salty shots and my notes seem to imply: too fine (even if the shot time looks correct, or short). Also I wouldn't be surprised if the word "salty" means different things to different people because in coffee you get all kinds of flavours/defects mixed in at once at high intensity making distinguishing flavours more challenging.


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