# Coffee problem. Help/advice appreciated...



## Eddie (Jun 20, 2015)

Evening guys,

Google has not been able to answer my question so I thought I'd ask some humans!

I recently purchased a Krups XP5620 espresso machine, which I've been quite pleased with up to now. I also purchased a blade grinder. Initially I was using pre-ground espresso and had no issues however when I ground my first batch of beans I came across the below issue.

Basically I ground the beans as fine as the grinder allowed, as it was my understanding the finer the grind the better for espresso machines with a filter handle? Anyway I got powder like grain out the grinder, unfortunately the water merely dripped out the filter as opposed to a steady flow. I only got half an espresso cup in 25 seconds. Obviously waiting for the cup to fill resulted in burnt coffee.

I got the grinder back out and made a courser grind. Everything was fine, great coffee.

Ground the last of my beans earlier and managed to overgrind them. Once again the water seemed to struggle to get through the finer grind. Does anyone know the reason behind this? I had to throw the remaining coffee out as it just wouldn't work despite several attempts.

The grinder is electric but manual (button press) so there's a good chance I may mess up in the future. I'd just like to know if there's anything I can do so it doesn't go to waste?

Cheers!


----------



## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

As much as I know, blade grinders won't be very good for grinding for espresso...may need to think of getting a better grinder.


----------



## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

There are at least 2 variables that will lead to the inconsistency

1. Blade Grinder

2. No downward pressure (if you are at the end of the beans)

Grinders are designed so that beans are fed between the burrs (see point 1 as this is a big difference) at a constant rate and perform best when pressure is applied from above (usually the weight of the beans in the hopper regulates this)

If you have only enough beans then the burrs (or blades) take chunks out of the bean at differing sizes, usually leading to too fine or too coarse grind in the portafilter.

What grinder do you have?

Do you have a budget for upgrading the grinder?


----------



## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Blade grinder? Ditch it (sorry, they are for grinding herbs not coffee). if budget allows, buy an electric burr grinder or a hand grinder if not. Blade grinders will burn the beans from friction and they don't 'grind' but chop instead. A hand-grinder, even though it is slower, will produce better coffee.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Hi Eddie,

I don't like being the bearer of bad news, but the blade grinder may not be making your life easier? It will be difficult to maintain a consistent grind setting when compared to a burr grinder. You could try going back to pre-ground, or buy a burr grinder (handgrinders from £40-£150, electric really start ~£250 new, but watch the for sale forum for used grinders).

Whatever grinder/coffee you use it may be useful to buy some small jewellery scales so you can weigh the coffee dose that goes into the portafilter, as well as the weight of the drink produced.


----------



## Eddie (Jun 20, 2015)

GCGlasgow said:


> As much as I know, blade grinders won't be very good for grinding for espresso...may need to think of getting a better grinder.


Thanks for your reply. As I mentioned everything is great if I don't make the coffee powdery fine. If I get it to pre-ground coffee texture I get great results. I'm just confused at to why the finer grind isn't making coffee. Is it because it's too dense for the water to travel through, for example?


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

It's clogging the basket. I suspect.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Eddie said:


> Thanks for your reply. As I mentioned everything is great if I don't make the coffee powdery fine. If I get it to pre-ground coffee texture I get great results. I'm just confused at to why the finer grind isn't making coffee. Is it because it's too dense for the water to travel through, for example?


Yes, too high a resistance in the portafilter for the water to flow through as normal.


----------



## risky (May 11, 2015)

In my experience it will be grinding too fine. I had a cheap Delonghi blade grinder that could easily choke my machine if you 'over ground'. I'm guessing the coffee is so fine it clumps together in a massive way?

As others have pointed out there are numerous difficulties with a blade grinder and it will really hinder your ability.


----------



## Eddie (Jun 20, 2015)

Yeah there's a pattern to the replies here! It's just a cheap krups 'grinder'...£20 from John Lewis. Got good reviews online so didn't think I'd have issues. I guess I'll look at upgrading.

Even still won't I have the same problem with fine grinds from a burr grinder?


----------



## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I bet you are using a pressurised basket in the portafilter?

I blew up my old Dualit when I bought a proper grinder as it blocked the single exit hole on the basket. Find a non-pressurised basket (if you can get them for your machine) and go from there (you will see straight through a non-pressurised one when holding it up to a light)


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Eddie said:


> Yeah there's a pattern to the replies here! It's just a cheap krups 'grinder'...£20 from John Lewis. Got good reviews online so didn't think I'd have issues. I guess I'll look at upgrading.
> 
> Even still won't I have the same problem with fine grinds from a burr grinder?


Yes. But you'll have control over the fineness with a burr grinder.


----------



## Eddie (Jun 20, 2015)

risky said:


> In my experience it will be grinding too fine. I had a cheap Delonghi blade grinder that could easily choke my machine if you 'over ground'. I'm guessing the coffee is so fine it clumps together in a massive way?
> 
> As others have pointed out there are numerous difficulties with a blade grinder and it will really hinder your ability.


Yes, the coffee does clump together when I grind it too thin.

Good stuff, glad I know what the problem is. I'll start shopping for another grinder then!

Appreciate your help guys.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Eddie said:


> Even still won't I have the same problem with fine grinds from a burr grinder?


Yes, it ill still be possible to grind too fine with a burr grinder & you'll have to make adjustments when dialling in new beans, but you will be able to set a consistent burr gap, that will give more consistent a grind, for the same beans, compared to relying on looks/feel with the blade grinder.


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Check the for sale thread here chap - there's a rr45 cheapish in there. There's a few grinder guides on here too.


----------



## risky (May 11, 2015)

Eddie said:


> Good stuff, glad I know what the problem is. I'll start shopping for another grinder then!


And so the slippery slope begins...


----------



## Eddie (Jun 20, 2015)

Thanks again guys, great site.


----------



## Eddie (Jun 20, 2015)

risky said:


> And so the slippery slope begins...


Haha...where does it end!?


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Eddie said:


> Haha...where does it end!?


It doesn't.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Eddie said:


> Haha...where does it end!?


When you pop your clogs


----------

