# Novice, all the gear... No idea... [emoji85]



## leo-lincoln (Jan 4, 2015)

Ok so my Sage Dual Boiler has arrived as has the Mignon.

So I've read through some beginners guides and I just dosed 18g of coffee and extracted 37g espresso over 30 seconds...

First question is that 18g seems to much in the single basket, it takes some force to twist it into the machine - if I had used the 'razor' dosing tool - that would have removed a lot of the coffee...

I tamped with about 25-30kg of pressure too.

What do you experts think?

Thanks.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

18g is for a " double " basket . Ditch the single. Ditch the razor too .


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Boots covered the main bits.

Also it's 30lbs not kg that is the most widely spread measure for taping, but really dont get too hung up on tamping pressure. Technique (level tamp) and consistency is much more important. It's one of many variables you will learn to tweak to best suit your style and taste in coffee. Some people tamp at 2lb, some 35+.

Remember the 1:2 ratio (as in 17g of coffee = 34g of espresso) over 25-30 seconds is a guideline only, and most coffees will need a variation of this to get the best out of them.

Good reading here:

http://www.baristahustle.com/coffee-extraction-and-how-to-taste-it/

And here:

http://www.baristahustle.com/8020-method/


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## leo-lincoln (Jan 4, 2015)

Ok so now 18g in the double basket is getting like 130g espresso over 30 seconds, beans are ground quite fine.

Only getting 1.5 bar pressure where as with single basket was getting about 7 bar


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Keep grinding finer till you get around 30-40g out. The mignon should be able to grind fine enough.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Where are the beans from.... how old are they ?


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## leo-lincoln (Jan 4, 2015)

They are Peru beans roasted this week... I'll get a picture


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## leo-lincoln (Jan 4, 2015)




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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Then yea keep going finer until you get to the right ballpark on the timing.

Lighter roasts also require a finer grind.


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## leo-lincoln (Jan 4, 2015)

Ah ok, so basically more coffee and watch pressure v. Time and quantity of espresso. So the 1:2 ratio will go out the window?

Just as much coffee to get roughly 36g of espresso, extracting around 8 bar between 25-30 seconds... And importantly see how it tastes?! Tricky as at the moment I only like a good latte!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

No no, the amount of coffee remains the same, 18g. Unless you have exhausted all other variables which shouldn't happen with a decent grinder which the Mignon is. Change the length of the extraction with the fine-ness of grind, the finer the grind the slower the flow.

The 1:2 ratio only goes out the window if you have got to this stage and the coffee is either too bitter or too sour so you need to tweak you grind for a longer or shorter extraction.


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## leo-lincoln (Jan 4, 2015)

Ah ok, will put some more practise in tomorrow. Thanks for your help.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Just so the above is completely clear here is an excerpt from the Barista Hustle link I posted



> Extract More = Grind finer AND/OR brew for a longer time AND/OR use more water.
> 
> Extract Less = Grind coarser AND/OR brew for a shorter time AND/OR use less water.


Basically do that until you have a balanced shot.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Firstly, repeatability and consistency is absolute king.

Ignore tamp pressure. The 30lbs thing is an outdated recommendation, try grinding finer and tamping light (apply pressure until the coffee stops moving down in the basket, that's all).

Keep as many things a constant as possible. Don't play with brew pressure at first, that just opens up a whole other playing field. Choose a dose weight, a target yield and brew temperature. Aim to tamp the same way with the same force every time. Change only one variable at a time. The first one you should look to change is grind size which will in turn affect the brew time.

Manipulate the brew time by manipulating the grind size. Going finer will increase the brew time. Coarser, the opposite.

Taste every shot you pull. Once you get something you like, see if you can make it better by going a tiny bit finer and increasing your brew time. If you preferred it the time before, go back to your old grind setting and maybe see if a tad coarser would be better.

Once you get the hang of hitting your target yield in the right time, then try bigger or smaller yields. Remember to make note of everything you do and what is affected when you change a variable.


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## wilse (Nov 14, 2013)

Also your beans are fresh.

When I use beans within a few days of roasting [which I try not to do] it's quite foamy when it extracts and means I have to grind finer.

I like to leave 7-10 days, then I get really good pulls.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Personally I now tamp exceedingly lightly and grind very finely.

Barley finger tip pressure, just a light polish. As long as I can turn the portafiler upside down and the grinds stay in place im happy.

Just tested and would say I put about 1kg of pressure and that includes the weight of the tamper.

This is my current prefered tamping,, I may go back to tamping harder in the future


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Whatever you do, tamp-wise, do it consistently!


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Light-tamping?! Arrrgh. Right, back to basics, curious as to how this will change things. There must be a difference in results between fine, lightly tamped coffee and coarser, heavily tamped. I've been using the 30lb rule until now and was feeling pretty happy with myself.

Off to experiment...


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## leo-lincoln (Jan 4, 2015)

Holing to get some more practise tonight, will see how I get on!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The only experiment I saw suggested that there might be a difference between a very light tamp and a heavier one, but it makes little difference 10lb+

Theory being that the water from the machine being injected into the basket quickly builds up pressure which is forcing the coffee together in any case, the initial tamping doesn't affect the process that much.


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