# Gaggia Achille



## VTG

Hi all,

Recently got myself a Gaggia Achille machine to see how much a lever differs from a pump machine like my Gaggia Classic. Upon receipt, it seems to be in a good condition. However I'm not sure if this is normal but do manual lever machines tend to slant a bit forward? Meaning, if I put in a bottomless portafilter with an empty (or full) basket and pull rather than the stream of water/coffee be coming out around the center it would just be around the 6 o'clock area of the basket but not at the edge.

Saying that, the resulting espresso shots from this machine is an eye opener, even on my first few shots.

Any advice on how I could make the most of the Achille? Looking to replace the steam wand with a rancilio silvia one..

Also.. I not sure if this would help others but whilst surfing the net I found that wholelattelove in the US ships parts (that are currently in stock) for the Achille, so it looks like I am kind-of covered if I am desperate to replace something.

Thank you!

Alex


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## GS11

VTG said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Recently got myself a Gaggia Achille machine to see how much a lever differs from a pump machine like my Gaggia Classic. Upon receipt, it seems to be in a good condition. However I'm not sure if this is normal but do manual lever machines tend to slant a bit forward? Meaning, if I put in a bottomless portafilter with an empty (or full) basket and pull rather than the stream of water/coffee be coming out around the center it would just be around the 6 o'clock area of the basket but not at the edge.
> 
> Saying that, the resulting espresso shots from this machine is an eye opener, even on my first few shots.
> 
> Any advice on how I could make the most of the Achille? Looking to replace the steam wand with a rancilio silvia one..
> 
> Also.. I not sure if this would help others but whilst surfing the net I found that wholelattelove in the US ships parts (that are currently in stock) for the Achille, so it looks like I am kind-of covered if I am desperate to replace something.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Alex


lovely machine, saw a couple of these go recently on ebay.

very well paired with the mazzer sj


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## coffeechap

Mine doesn't slant forward!

These are capable of fab shots of coffee, you need to treat it like an hx as essentially that is what it is, so a cooling flush required before pulling the shot, I find you need two pulls on the lever for a double shot of coffee, grind fine and tamp light as with most levers, what beans are you using?


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## VTG

oh... I got this off ebay and looks like the previous owner must have pressed really hard over time. Tried to push it a bit backwards (well upwards) with the portafilter locked in but no luck









As it's a HX would you say to do a cooling flush until no "large amounts of steam" from the group head? Yeah, I noticed that if I tamped as usual I had to use my whole body strength when pulling and I get tired afterwards lol

Generally I roast my own using a gene cafe and the greens from the BB bulk buy. Still learning though!


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## coffeechap

Sorry I didn't get back to you, yes flush it like you would an hx, unless you have just pulled a shot then no need, the key is if the machine has been sat on for a prolonged period of time.

The key with most lever is a slightly finer grind and light tamping, gets a really good extraction from the coffee. How are you getting on with it?


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## VTG

Simply amazing. The shots pulled on the Achille is a lot different to the shots on the Classic- a more fuller body and a tad sweeter. Had some guatemala el bosque decaf from hasbean last night and it was simply just nice.

Apart from the occasional leak, I am generally happy it.

Still got loads to learn though with lever machines, it's just opened up a whole new world to me. Might suddenly have a look at the L1 but that's way down the road.


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## Mrboots2u

VTG said:


> Simply amazing. The shots pulled on the Achille is a lot different to the shots on the Classic- a more fuller body and a tad sweeter. Had some guatemala el bosque decaf from hasbean last night and it was simply just nice.
> 
> Apart from the occasional leak, I am generally happy it.
> 
> Still got loads to learn though with lever machines, it's just opened up a whole new world to me. Might suddenly have a look at the L1 but that's way down the road.


Same experience for me when I went lever side ..it's a new world of taste !


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## Milanski

I was looking at getting one of these... and might still...

What is it that makes levers taste different from machines Coffeechap?


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## rodabod

Quick question. I'm just getting around to experimenting with mine. I already own an HX pump-driven machine, so am familiar with heat exchangers.

Anyway, sometimes while experimenting with grind and tamp, I get a slightly thin shot with doesn't have as much crema as expected, and tastes a little like brewed coffee. Is that more likely to be pressure or temperature related?

Cheers,

Roddy


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## rodabod

Looks like I've at least got the temperature wrong, as I measured the temp today in the portafilter using a thermocouple in a sponge block.

This is what I see on the gauge:

30 min warmup

First pull and second pull 60 - 80 degrees C.

Third and fourth pulls 92 - 94 degrees.

Then ten minutes later

First pull 60 - 80 degrees.

Second pull rises to 92 degrees.

Basically, this thing needs a couple of cooling (warming) flushes before you go.

Now to get the grind right....


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## VTG

The Gaggia Achille does need a few good flushing pulls to get it to brewing temperature since it's an HX, especially after leaving it on for a while.

How much pressure are you exerting when pulling a shot?

From experience you shouldn't need to exert all your body strength and just enough to feel a "strong" resistance, but obviously not without a sweat


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## rodabod

Thanks. The odd thing is, when it has been on for a while, and flash boils when you first pour (you can hear gurgling as the water comes out) it's actually cold for the first pull, which I can only assume is because the grouphead is not held as hot as the water. I'm measuring just below the shower plate, and the hottest it went was 95 degrees.

This morning's shot required too much force, so was definitely too fine. I had to push really hard. Will need to experiment more.

I have attached a portafilter pressure gauge so that I can get the feel for 9 Bar of pressure ;-)


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## Joe the fish

Really a thing of beauty, no doubt you will get things ironed out and make some stonking shots. What size is the PF on these?


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## Charliej

58mm same as a Classic, lot of the same group parts as well.


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## rodabod

Charliej said:


> 58mm same as a Classic, lot of the same group parts as well.


Yep, that's one of the things I liked, so I could keep my bottomless portafilter and VST basket.

Something which I never realised before with a manual lever is that you get immediate feedback through the handle which lets you know how the beans are reacting. I have a Rwandan from Climpson's here, and it always significantly reduces in resistances towards the last third of the shot (no channeling) at which point I can respond by reducing the pressure.


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## coffeechap

The temp at the group on this machine is different to other small levers due to the fact that the group does not receive much heat from the boiler, with a la pavoni the group is directly fed and fused to the boiler, therefore heat transference is much greater and thus the group over heats over time. The achillies requires the heating flush when it has been left dormant as the group actually cools over time. The flashing will occur as the initial pull of water us coming from inside the boiler which begins heating up the group, softer the two pulls the temperature returns to optimal and great shots can be had.


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## rodabod

^ That's exactly it.

Seems to be pretty good so far. I have it sitting next to my Expobar Pulser (E61-style HX) and it's very good, but I'm probably still pouring better shots on the Expobar.

I remember your advice with levers of grinding fine and tamping light so will try that, assuming it still applies to the 58mm group, and not just the smaller levers.

I currently have my grind around the same as for my pump machine which is set to 9 Bar.


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## VTG

Rodabod, when you heat up your machine do you release the "false pressure" after the heater element has turned off? I find that if this "pressure" isn't released then cold water comes out as you say on the first flushing pull. After the initial warm up time, try opening up the steam wand and the pressure reading on the gauge should drop and heater element kicking in. Last night I let my Gaggia Achille warm up for 40 mins and did a flush for the first time and it was hot not cold.

This is what I think may be happening and possibly I could be entirely wrong... I do not mean to conflict with coffeechap.

If you look at the parts diagram in the instruction manual or even take the side panels off, you'll see that both the top and lower part of group is directly bolted but not fused onto the boiler.

So yes, on the first few flushes, the group head will get warmed up by the water coming from the boiler. But then after time the group head will get hot and will need to flush it to cool it down for optimum brewing temperature.


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## rodabod

I forgot to release the false pressure when I first used it, and yes, it was cold!

I don't believe that the group does rise up to a particularly warm level; I can touch the group without burning my hand even after it has been on for a while. Unlike the E61 grouphead which burns your hand after twenty minutes.

It definitely requires less warming after a longer duration, but I don't believe that the group ever needs to be cooled down. All you sometimes need is to clear the HX when it gets particularly hot.

If I can find a spot to do so, then I could always try measuring the temperature of the grouphead.


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## coffeechap

VTG said:


> Rodabod, when you heat up your machine do you release the "false pressure" after the heater element has turned off? I find that if this "pressure" isn't released then cold water comes out as you say on the first flushing pull. After the initial warm up time, try opening up the steam wand and the pressure reading on the gauge should drop and heater element kicking in. Last night I let my Gaggia Achille warm up for 40 mins and did a flush for the first time and it was hot not cold.
> 
> This is what I think may be happening and possibly I could be entirely wrong... I do not mean to conflict with coffeechap.
> 
> If you look at the parts diagram in the instruction manual or even take the side panels off, you'll see that both the top and lower part of group is directly bolted but not fused onto the boiler.
> 
> So yes, on the first few flushes, the group head will get warmed up by the water coming from the boiler. But then after time the group head will get hot and will need to flush it to cool it down for optimum brewing temperature.


No conflict taken, not all lever machines are equal, the Bosco one group that I had required a heating flush as the group cooled from optimal during long periods of inactivity as does in my experience the gaggia achille that I own, I have not noticed cold water coming out, just exceptionally hot on the first pull, the key difference with the achille and say the factory or lapavoni is that they work on a dipper system taking water directly from a boiler which is at 135 degrees, and this is a very short feed to the group so over time the group completely over heats, this is not the case the with the achille as it is fed via a pipe running through the boiler to the group, but only the water in the part of the pipe actually gets hot, so the heat is not transferred to the group. The group will still get hot just not optimal brew temp.


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## ile

rodabod said:


> ^ That's exactly it.
> 
> Seems to be pretty good so far. I have it sitting next to my Expobar Pulser (E61-style HX) and it's very good, but I'm probably still pouring better shots on the Expobar.


Hey, I came by this thread with Google.

I'm interested to hear how your experimentation turned out, if you are still reading these.

I have Expobar Leva on order, and just found out about Gaggia Achille, which seems like it should be a great machine. How did it perform in the end?

Thanks.


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