# Extraction issue



## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Hey,

just a quickie...

What would be the problem if my espresso starts at 9 seconds very slowly and drippy but then rapidly speeds up and starts spluttering??? My extraction weights are about where they need to be, but find my self quickly having to stop it at about 25 seconds...

could it be from a too hard tamp? Im tamping a lot harder than i used to, i wonder if i should go a bit finer and tamp a touch lighter....?

thanks for any suggestions.....

Ps. Taste is great but im sure can always be better...


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

I think mostly distribution vs tamping.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

You getting the tell tale signs of holes in your puck afterwards?


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Ah ok thanks...


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

What machine is this?

Most likely distribution issues, the rapid speed up and spluttering sounds like channelling...

Try just a light 'dressing' tamp just to level it... also try WDT to distribute grounds better and see if any change...


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Not really no, i will check the puck from now on tho... Half the time its stuck to the group head which is doing my head in as well... Cheers froggy.

its a classic steven, i always stir and tap the portafilter after filling it... What is WDT?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Yeah dont tap it!

You can cause fractures in the grind, just pile it in, level with finger, then tamp and polish.


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

WDT would be same as your stirring I guess...

After you've locked the PF in place, take it off again check to see if it hit against the shower screen.... if you are dosing the same as always etc, it's possible that you need to adjust grind a little due to temperature, humidity etc...


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Ah i always thought a little tap was needed... Thanks. Ill try again in a couple of hours, ive had far too much coffee today... Could go raving right now the way i feel


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Thanks steven... Appreciate it. Will try that.


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

Just make sure don't tap it after you've tamped it...

A light tap to even out grounds before tamping is fine...


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Big fish, little fish, cardboard box!

Ave it!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Sounds like channelling, either tamp lighter or grind slightly coarser and see what happens but don't do both at once. Seems like the water is struggling to get through at first then the puck is fracturing.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Could be a prep issue too - what's your routine like?


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

Just me but I like to make sure I can choke the machine, then back off a little


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> Could be a prep issue too - what's your routine like?


Its ok i think. Weigh in beans, grind, tap, stir, tamp, brew, 27seconds and weigh....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

You've got a smart grinder don't you? Would avoid stirring if possible


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

stevenh said:


> Just make sure don't tap it after you've tamped it...
> 
> A light tap to even out grounds before tamping is fine...


No tap before or after tamping is fine.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Charliej said:


> No tap before or after tamping is fine.


A tap after tamping can cause a crack in the tamped puck, causing channeling, tap after tamp is bad.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I shall repeat...

pile it in, level with finger, then tamp and polish.

No shaking, no taping, no stirring...

I dont see why people have so many little rituals when preparing the puck!


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> I shall repeat...
> 
> pile it in, level with finger, then tamp and polish.
> 
> ...


I've got two answers this, only one of which |I'll give, basically it's a massage to ones own ego, trying to assure yourself you did everything possible to make it work well. The trouble is most of these silly little rituals get added together and then cause more damage than you would think.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Get your grind right and let the tamper do the rest i say..


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

What grinder you got?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Sage smart grinder


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Whilst grinding and tamping straight away may suit some grinders, it does not suit all. Stirring is necessary to achieve an even extraction in some cases, and to break up clumps in others.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

D_Evans said:


> Whilst grinding and tamping straight away may suit some grinders, it does not suit all. Stirring is necessary to achieve an even extraction in some cases, and to break up clumps in others.


But there again not all cheap grinders require stirring techniques either, I think the issue is some newbies see all these things on here and on Youtube then think that combining everything will make things better than just doing one thing and adding more steps in to the "ritual" adds more places for error to creep in, most certainly a Mignon requires some form of redistributing technique to get rid of the oxo cubes it produces.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Very true, it should be a solution to a problem rather than a required part of the routine.


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