# Roast date is the minimum?



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Surely roast date on a bag of coffee is the absolute minimum that should be expected from any decent roaster?

I rang up a local roaster the other day to ask this, as a 'just to check' and was told no in the kind of way which suggested I was an idiot for asking.

With the importance of freshness of beans I wouldn't touch a bag without a roast date.

I went into one of those pretentious food places the other day and they were selling bags of 250g coffee from a local Yorkshire roaster for around £8 a bag, with lots of different beans and blends with tasting notes etc. BUT NO ROAST DATE. Why???


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

It doesn't matter why Tom, the only way they will learn is if you vote with your wallet. If enough people don't care the roaster won't change and you won't convince them. The why is because for some, if they are making money and selling coffee, to them it means their product is good and they stop trying. Blends and tasting notes are the marketing sizzle to entice people to buy.

When I roast I always know I can do better and keep trying to do better every roast....that's the sort of roaster you want to buy from. If they care they will put a roast date on the roast, they will bag up the roast within hours, not leave it in containers to bag days or weeks later. You will certainly never see it served from scoops in an open container into a paper bag.

There is another reason for a reticence to put a roast date on the bag and that is the obsession with freshness and people refusing coffee that was roasted even 2 weeks before. That actually happened to me with one of my roast sharers !? If the coffee is packed right (that's the key thing), it's going to taste and pour fine for months! I could get a coffee 2 months old and from the pour and taste you'd think it had been roasted 7 days ago.

Badly treated (before packing) and badly packed coffee won't last very well at all.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Not all roasters roast every day but they could still add a roast date.

I had a bag off Rave, the light roast to try. No roast date. My first order off them.

Redber appear to roast to order going on a conversation when I stopped using them. All ok for a long time and then a change in the degree of roast - rather noticeable. I phoned after making the order and a lady said she would keep an eye out for my order.  That one arrived with a bit of a burnt smell but it went in a day. Next order back to a poor roast compared with what they did offer. Reviews mention that there roasts vary. Probably down to the method they use to roast to order.

Now I get a roasters name, date and was also told when the source of the bean changed to one that was more traceable but involved a taste change. I also believe they roast to what they feel suites a bean.

To be honest in this area I'd like to see further info. Class of bean and also taste score. Not after the best of the best just for info. I suppose single farm origin is an option but not one that has appealed to me.

Seeing Dave's post 100% correct. Bought in bulk something I don't do often a use by date can be months ahead. Opening the packaging date in some ways.

John

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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

ajohn said:


> I had a bag off Rave, the light roast to try. No roast date. My first order off them.


 That's odd, I don't do many Rave orders but I think they've all had roast dates. Iirc they might be one of the roasters which use those little corner shop stickers which of course promptly fall off!

Only roaster I can recall not having a date is Untold Coffee, that irked me and put me off ordering again.

Something nearly all roasters could improve on is designing to communicate information instead of to look fancy. There's a balance of course but damn sometimes I stare at a bag for 30 seconds before I finally see the tasting notes/origin...


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Not on topic but I notice that Rave's bag is biodegradable. The term makes me shudder. In the future we may find the electronics in our TV's etc last for ever and the casing turns to dust instead. Use is avoiding one problem and in real terms creates another.

John

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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

ajohn said:


> Not all roasters roast every day but they could still add a roast date.
> 
> I had a bag off Rave, the light roast to try. No roast date. My first order off them.
> 
> ...


 All my Rave coffee has had a roast date often tucked in the bottom gusset it is stick on so perhaps you had the odd one out.


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## Jez H (Apr 4, 2015)

I'm intrigued as to which Yorkshire roaster it was Tom?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

catpuccino said:


> Something nearly all roasters could improve on is designing to communicate information instead of to look fancy. There's a balance of course but damn sometimes I stare at a bag for 30 seconds before I finally see the tasting notes/origin...


 I seem to find some now that don't even mention the roast level. Origin / type can be misleading as well. Taste can depend on small areas in a larger one. Columbian supremo is an extreme example of that.

John

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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Jez H said:


> I'm intrigued as to which Yorkshire roaster it was Tom?


 The first one was Caffe Society, which Im not surprised at it's bulk order to coffee shops.

I am trying to find the second one as I can't remember the exact name, they supply Yorkshire wildlife park.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Remembered now, it was the heavenly coffee company. 
The website seems to suggest they are just bulk order but they were selling 250g bags to customers.

There was also another one, might have been Foundry.


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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

Even if they put a roast date on the pack you cannot always trust it, I know a couple of high profile roasters that are not always honest with the dates.

The beans never lie however!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I have said this on many occasions ^


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I sometimes wonder how roasters start up at times. People sometime want to make money and think what business to try - oh I know roasting coffee beans. Buy a machine, go on a course etc bound to be a winner.

Another type might roast for themselves, later also for friends, then maybe sell at markets and at some point buy a larger machine, find premisses and start a business. Later buying even more machines as it expands.

 Perhaps DaveC will start one to augment his pension. (  Not sure he needs to) Probably a lot easier than lugging espresso machines into a crowded kitchen, getting strife off a few misbegotten idiots.

John

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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

ajohn said:


> I sometimes wonder how roasters start up at times. People sometime want to make money and think what business to try - oh I know roasting coffee beans. Buy a machine, go on a course etc bound to be a winner.
> 
> Another type might roast for themselves, later also for friends, then maybe sell at markets and at some point buy a larger machine, find premisses and start a business. Later buying even more machines as it expands.
> 
> ...


 The problem that most roasters have is how only a very small percentage of coffee drinkers will ever value their craft and pay them for it. 
For instance, most coffee at a supermarket you're looking at £2.50 a bag, that's insane. Got to Costco and you can get a kilo for £7!

It's therefore a pretty hard sell to charge maybe 2-3x as much. Especially as nobody knows what that bean will taste like until its brewed and dialled in! Yes you can obviously strive for consistent roasts but it's still a bit of a shot in the dark.

I roast at home, in part because I couldn't afford my coffee habit otherwise. Plus I like the freedom to do what I want. 
I also haven't had that many great coffees from roasters if I'm honest . Although I am looking forward to getting some next week from James Gourmet.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

NikonGuy said:


> Even if they put a roast date on the pack you cannot always trust it, I know off a couple of high profile roasters that are not always honest with there dates.
> 
> The beans never lie!


 That's a very strange thing to do, if you think about it... because putting false information on a product is a criminal offence. Even if it's information that's not required to be on packaging in the first place.

It's happened to us that a roasting session got delayed and the last batch or two took place after midnight. I scrapped the labels and made new ones with correct date on it. In the worst case, officials come and take a look to find a mismatch between roasting log and labels... no bonus points there.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Hasi said:


> That's a very strange thing to do, if you think about it... because putting false information on a product is a criminal offence. Even if it's information that's not required to be on packaging in the first place.
> 
> It's happened to us that a roasting session got delayed and the last batch or two took place after midnight. I scrapped the labels and made new ones with correct date on it. In the worst case, officials come and take a look to find a mismatch between roasting log and labels... no bonus points there.


 You're a good lad, Hasi ?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Jesus it happens wake up will you, do you really think those dates on some are true You actually believe some companies not every one does this. Being a few of you are well travelled you should know better, makes me laugh that peolple actually believe this, yes truth is in the beans.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Jony said:


> Jesus it happens wake up will you, do you really think those dates on some are true You actually believe some companies not every one does this. Being a few of you are well travelled you should know better, makes me laugh that peolple actually believe this, yes truth is in the beans.


 well... there's EU-wide consumer protection laws in place that every producer in food sector needs to adhere to. I take it that some roasters handle things loosely or haven't been made aware of certain regulations. That doesn't take away from every tiny bit of information given on any packaging needing to be correct so that consumers are not being mislead.

I've worked in beverage industry almost all my working life, dealing with all sorts of packaging problems the world over. There are nitpicking examiners who can put companies in knee-deep shit even if regulations cannot be followed for technical/physical reasons (limited space on small packaging, printing colour limitations, date application technology...). Better do it right the first time or you might face a sudden stop of all activities.

Accusing roasters of lying to their very own customers is pretty strong. Generalising hurts the whole trade, even though there are plenty honest producers out there. I would like to see things like this settled directly with affected parties, but hey ho...


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Or in the case of one of the roasters mentioned above, the roast / batch details are on a sticker on the base of the stand up bag  Having watched them put this sticker there on more than a few visits over the years, whilst there is always the opportunity for human error / glue failure this is where you would find on the whole.

John


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Hasi said:


> well... there's EU-wide consumer protection laws in place that every producer in food sector needs to adhere to. I take it that some roasters handle things loosely or haven't been made aware of certain regulations. That doesn't take away from every tiny bit of information given on any packaging needing to be correct so that consumers are not being mislead.
> 
> I've worked in beverage industry almost all my working life, dealing with all sorts of packaging problems the world over. There are nitpicking examiners who can put companies in knee-deep shit even if regulations cannot be followed for technical/physical reasons (limited space on small packaging, printing colour limitations, date application technology...). Better do it right the first time or you might face a sudden stop of all activities.
> 
> Accusing roasters of lying to their very own customers is pretty strong. Generalising hurts the whole trade, even though there are plenty honest producers out there. I would like to see things like this settled directly with affected parties, but hey ho...


 So what you saying is it doesn't happen this is what it says to me.


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## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

Jony said:


> So what you saying is it doesn't happen this is what it says to me.


 Not really, he was saying if this happens it's a serious thing and you should speak to or report the roaster directly, because the generalised comments make it sound more common than it is which damages trust in roasters who are honest (the vast majority). You can disagree on that kind of biting your tongue, mind.

I do think it's rubbish to say the proof is in the beans. Two beans roasted on the same date can be very differently aged if one is stored badly for a couple days before packing (or packed in a non-sealing bag) and one is immediately packed into well sealed bag.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The roaster I mostly buy off mentions fresh roasted beans. They told me that they generally roast several times a week - a while ago. Updated now.

"Fresh Roasted Coffee Beans We roast coffee beans (almost) everyday to ensure you receive truly fresh coffee every time."

So it really comes down to what fresh roasted means. They roast with 2 Probat roasters, not small ones, 1 first 2 later. May also be a Toper around, their first machine, don't think it's a small one.

I have no idea what machines like this can roast but wonder if it's even possible to roast 250g in a Probat. Doesn't look like it from the data on them. The order of Rave was just 250g.

John

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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

Hasi said:


> well... there's EU-wide consumer protection laws in place that every producer in food sector needs to adhere to. I take it that some roasters handle things loosely or haven't been made aware of certain regulations. That doesn't take away from every tiny bit of information given on any packaging needing to be correct so that consumers are not being mislead.
> 
> I've worked in beverage industry almost all my working life, dealing with all sorts of packaging problems the world over. There are nitpicking examiners who can put companies in knee-deep shit even if regulations cannot be followed for technical/physical reasons (limited space on small packaging, printing colour limitations, date application technology...). Better do it right the first time or you might face a sudden stop of all activities.
> 
> Accusing roasters of lying to their very own customers is pretty strong. Generalising hurts the whole trade, even though there are plenty honest producers out there. I would like to see things like this settled directly with affected parties, but hey ho...


 So a struggling business with bills to pay has a decision, throw stock or send it out hoping nobody notices, 90% of customers probably would not notice old beans...


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

NikonGuy said:


> struggling business with bills to pay has a decision, throw stock or send it out hoping nobody notices


 A struggling business should surely look at their business management and practices rather than let their customers take the hit.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Dear me the angry brigade are out today with conspiracy theories regarding the veracity of roast dates. Surely, it's pretty simple. If the coffee tastes good, the roast date doesn't matter. If it tastes off - take it up with the roaster. Has anyone had the experience of a roaster refusing to replace 'defective' beans? Obsessing over roast date is pointless.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

NikonGuy said:


> So a struggling business with bills to pay has a decision, throw stock or send it out hoping nobody notices, 90% of customers probably would not notice old beans...


 I thought you were talking about "high profile" roasters, not small businesses that are struggling?

If they are struggling they shouldn't have coffee sitting around waiting to be sent out. They will only be earning £10-£20 a kilo. If they are struggling they should have a small 1kg roaster. Which means they need 4 customers per batch. It wouldn't be difficult to limit variety and set a roast day to deal with low demand and if they are struggling so badly even one or two roast days a week are too much they would surely just cease operation and sell up rather than earn less than £10-£20 a week...especially considering there's a pretty wide definition of fresh roasted e.g. roasted within the past two, maybe even four, weeks.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Rob1 said:


> ...especially considering there's a pretty wide definition of fresh roasted e.g. roasted within the past two, maybe even four, weeks.


 Is there even a binding definition at all?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Been enjoying some excellent but rather expensive beans that are described as 'pineapple'. Brewed through Chemex, the result is intensely sweet honey but not pineapple. Should I have complained??

Just brewed the same, by now really out of date same beans through a long steep Sowden. Result - pineapple in spades. Well, well.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

MWJB said:


> Is there even a binding definition at all?


 Well no, it just depends what the roaster says they do. Roast to demand or roast on limited days of the week and/or send coffee out roasted up to x weeks before. No reason to break laws with false information when you can just quietly change your T&Cs.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Which brigade is this, is this not true then so you honestly think it doesn't go on. Any way I have had my opinion, we will agree to disagree then shall, because obviously your right.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Been enjoying some excellent but rather expensive beans that are described as 'pineapple'. Brewed through Chemex, the result is intensely sweet honey but not pineapple. Should I have complained??
> 
> Just brewed the same, by now really out of date same beans through a long steep Sowden. Result - pineapple in spades. Well, well.


 I think Caravan Coffee as this really tempted is good.


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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

Rob1 said:


> I thought you were talking about "high profile" roasters, not small businesses that are struggling?
> 
> If they are struggling they shouldn't have coffee sitting around waiting to be sent out. They will only be earning £10-£20 a kilo. If they are struggling they should have a small 1kg roaster. Which means they need 4 customers per batch. It wouldn't be difficult to limit variety and set a roast day to deal with low demand and if they are struggling so badly even one or two roast days a week are too much they would surely just cease operation and sell up rather than earn less than £10-£20 a week...especially considering there's a pretty wide definition of fresh roasted e.g. roasted within the past two, maybe even four, weeks.


 With regard to high profile roasters, date manipulation just comes down to pure greed and arrogance...

For Hipster startups date manipulation comes down to fighting to survive...

You only have to look at some of these web sites, they post stock images of farmers and then state things like "our farmers..." "We work with...", no they don't, they buy green beans from UK based Wholesalers, they have no contact with any farmers! All BS...


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

NikonGuy said:


> With regard to high profile roasters, date manipulation just comes down to pure greed and arrogance...


 How would anyone determine that this was happening, or be able to pursue it? The only sure way to know the beans you have were roasted on the wrong day is to receive some beans with a future date on them.

If people were so good at dating roasts by their senses, roast dates would be irrelevant. You would just taste the coffee, strike off the roaster from your list (for whatever reason) & move on.

This is all getting a bit 'turquoise track suits & lizard people'.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

NikonGuy said:


> You only have to look at some of these web sites, they post stock images of farmers and then state things like "our farmers..." "We work with...", no they don't, they buy green beans from UK based Wholesalers, they have no contact with any farmers! All BS...


 Not true. There are some UK roasters who work in partnership with farmers and buy direct. That said, buying direct comes with drawbacks. The UK roaster has to pay up front and wait until the coffee is harvested and finally shipped which can take several months. Buying through a UK specialist supplier, the roaster can receive the goods and begin roasting and shipping before the usual 90 day invoice payment becomes due thereby minimising cash flow problems.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

The ethos behind the 3rd wave movement is to work with farmers and encourage them to improve method, consistency and quality. The advent of the 'coffee of excellence' award is a case in point. Growers get a premium for their crop. The old saying, 'you get what you pay for' is true when it comes to coffee. It is in the interests of all those involved in the 3rd wave movement to encourage the pursuit of quality and that means paying a fair price at source which involves collaboration between grower and buyer be it direct or through via a wholesaler who is committed to quality.


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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Not true. There are some UK roasters who work in partnership with farmers and buy direct. That said, buying direct comes with drawbacks. The UK roaster has to pay up front and wait until the coffee is harvested and finally shipped which can take several months. Buying through a UK specialist supplier, the roaster can receive the goods and begin roasting and shipping before the usual 90 day invoice payment becomes due thereby minimising cash flow problems.


 I did not say all...

But how many of these third wave hipsters would know how to buy coffee directly and manage there exposure to the commodities market?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

There was an interesting booth at host, the "laser securedate system" LSS. It was quite clever and achieved this.









The clever part was the laser etching of a small % of beans only in the cooling tray or on a belt of a roaster. The device can be clipped to the tray and whenever a flat sided bean comes with exactly the right distance and orientation to the camera, it zaps it. It might seem a bit hard, but it only needs to do a relatively small % of the beans for sufficient beans in the bag to have a marking. It's small and doesn't affect taste, fast too. it can be programmed not only with date, but it can alternate as many things as you want....so it can do date, batch number, date again etc..

Or even have the roaster name every 3rd zap, you get the idea.. They told me that a 30g sample was enough to ensure at least 3 beans had something on them and if the roast date was every 3rd item printed a roaster would only need to get 30g back to identify the batch.

It was designed to be used on any small product with a definable face that an AI can recognise, and will tumble in front of the laser eye, as long as it's laser etchable....Probably solve all these problems if it ever catches on....I know quite a few roasters were interested.

P.S. It obviously doesn't work on Peaberrys and very dark roasts are problematic....


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Maybe some one who does commercially roast tell me what they would use to roast say 250g to 1kg order when they have several similar orders on the same one day but all for different beans and nothing to increase the batch size? Even a smaller commercial roaster can need at least 1kg in it. Throw the rest away if they have to roast more than is ordered? At some point they will have to throw beans away.

Surely the important thing with any roaster really is taste and reliability of the roast. I don't freeze beans and if I had a batch significantly older than others I am sure I would notice while using them up.

Dave's zapper sounds like an excuse for a price hike to me - until more have it. Any idea of the cost?

John

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> Dave's zapper sounds like an excuse for a price hike to me - until more have it. Any idea of the cost


 It was quite expensive John, there were a few comments around the fact that any marketing messages would be quite small e.g. tasting notes, or temperature recommendations etc.. and in a dark bar even Baristas with very good eyesight wouldn't be able to read it. interestingly they did talk about a small loupe hung from the hoppers of the grinders, so Baristas and customers alike could inspect a small sample of the beans (contained in the hopper) in a tray.

I think the main interest was in traceability, customer confidence and of course anti-counterfeiting, so even if they got the packaging right it would be hard to get the beans marked correctly. Thus the customer would know they had not got the real thing but some perhaps some cheap chinese copy.


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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> There was an interesting booth at host, the "laser securedate system" LSS. It was quite clever and achieved this.
> 
> 
> View attachment 36414
> ...


 ? Very funny, it's not April the 1st yet! That's a really badly retouched Photoshop image!

Nearly as bad as the images in your reviews!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

ajohn said:


> Maybe some one who does commercially roast tell me what they would use to roast say 250g to 1kg order when they have several similar orders on the same one day but all for different beans and nothing to increase the batch size? Even a smaller commercial roaster can need at least 1kg in it. Throw the rest away if they have to roast more than is ordered? At some point they will have to throw beans away.
> 
> Surely the important thing with any roaster really is taste and reliability of the roast. I don't freeze beans and if I had a batch significantly older than others I am sure I would notice while using them up.
> 
> ...


 Managing the number of varieties they offer to customers would be a smart move. Limiting roast days to once per week would go some way to limiting losses. They might also sell beans from old batches up to two or three weeks from roast date, use them in blends, or offer subscription services. They could also sell them not for profit when they do get old to prevent losses. All preferable I imagine to losing customers.


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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

Or as one roaster does, repack and sell old beans on Amazon...


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

NikonGuy said:


> Or as one roaster does, repack and sell old beans on Amazon...


 If a roaster dropped the price on old beans, then it wouldn't be so bad. Use in aeropress etc. or just people with no issue with older beans.

In the same way when my coffee is made badly, I refuse to pay the same amount for inferior product.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

TomHughes said:


> If a roaster dropped the price on old beans, then it wouldn't be so bad. Use in aeropress etc. or just people with no issue with older beans.
> 
> In the same way when my coffee is made badly, I refuse to pay the same amount for inferior product.


 I've used several roasters that use the term fresh roasted and had no complaints. Also some that state roasted to order which is somewhat different. One that did say that used several small batch roasters and 1 larger machine. They used to get feedback about roast variations and may still do. 1kg off them use to be a better option but too much for me to consume reliably in a sensible time. It also came with a use by date which I suspect would be essential these days when used in commercial premises.

Go to much higher volumes, Ily and Lavazza for instance and they may examine the colour of every bean they make and automatically reject beans that don't roast correctly. These too make packs specifically for espresso machines and they are an entirely different animal to what to what Lavazza for instance is usually associated with. They come in 1kg packs.

I had a big surprise recently. Coffee in a Starbucks while travelling - bit of a shock nothing like what I have had from CostaBucks in the past.  So maybe not a good idea to knock them now.

Sometimes some one wants a few kg of beans to run their new grinder in - ask your roaster is sometimes suggested. Might be badly roasted but I suspect more likely to be some that they would be throwing away for other reasons.

Really the fact that some one states fresh roasted should be fine because if they provide beans that vary they will loose business. That could be roast or taste. The difficulty explains the cost.

John

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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

I think the term 'freshly roasted' has become synomynous with quality which is definitely not the case.

I think many use it as a distinction from what people can buy at the supermarket. Much like 'all natural' or 'homemade'. 
We went to a food festival a while back, my wife came back with two 'homemade' pies, which contained more palm oil and E numbers than I've ever seen in a home!

I recently has a bag of SO from a well known roaster (given as a present otherwise I would have complained) it was terribly roasted, very inconsistent. It was a bean I have roasted myself and mine was far better. 
As a result I just found it impossible to dial in.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

What do you roast with @TomHughes just curious.

John

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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

ajohn said:


> What do you roast with @TomHughes just curious.
> 
> John
> 
> -


 Yesterday it was with a giant stock pot, on a camping stove with a heat gun! 
But it used to be an enclosed spinning rotisserie basket with multiple heat guns and infrared thermometer. But that ones in the repair shop!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Ohh treat your self


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Jony said:


> Ohh treat your self


 Me? 
I actually get better roasts from this than I've seen from a lot of other roasters like the Gene.

I love the idea of building something simple from scratch.

There is just no fun in just buying stuff. Theres no endeavour, no set backs, no thrill of seeing it work.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

TomHughes said:


> Me?
> I actually get better roasts from this than I've seen from a lot of other roasters like the Gene.
> 
> I love the idea of building something simple from scratch.
> ...


 It depends who's using it. Would agree if you can build something better principle though... The enclosed basket set up might have been good especially if you had a way of adding a fan to the chamber.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> It depends who's using it. Would agree if you can build something better principle though... The enclosed basket set up might have been good especially if you had a way of adding a fan to the chamber.


 yes it has a fan that comes in from side which I switch on when the roast is done.

All in all it cost me an additional £20-30 as the heat guns I had around. Most expensive bit was the basket.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

TomHughes said:


> Yesterday it was with a giant stock pot, on a camping stove with a heat gun!
> But it used to be an enclosed spinning rotisserie basket with multiple heat guns and infrared thermometer. But that ones in the repair shop!


 I had a go with popcorn roasters and concluded could improve it but decided not to waste my time  after starting. It was going to get temperature measurement, an energy regulator and a switch to turn to cooling. Not worth doing for a very small batch of beans. Also tried a flying saucer popcorn roaster off amazon that some one reckoned was great for beans - sent it back. Rather fundamental problems, worst beans not turning over.

So have a 3rd hand Gene and followed instructions provided by a gent on here. Didn't work at all and was miles out. Opened it all up and cleaned the air inlet, dismantled the chaff collector and cleaned that and had another go. World of difference especially after adding a mic to here cracks. Then tried my own idea of roasting using temperatures measured in commercial roasters and had a reasonably roast.  Can't roast in the kitchen any more so a bit stuck at the moment until the garage is sorted following it being fitted with a new roof. Wont happen until the weather warms up. Then I'll get down to all of the must does and must not does associated with the Gene. Most of them make me frown and feel there must be a better way.  All of them really. I suspect that if I use it regularly the chaff collector will get replaced with something else.

To be honest I would rather have something that would handle more beans. Prices put me off. I was looking at the CBR1200 said by the makers to be cheaper than similar conventional roasters ......................... Maybe it was once and a true 500g would be ideal for me.

John

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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

TomHughes said:


> yes it has a fan that comes in from side which I switch on when the roast is done.
> 
> All in all it cost me an additional £20-30 as the heat guns I had around. Most expensive bit was the basket.


 Airflow during the roast should improve things. Should add some more control and remove smoke and chaff.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> Airflow during the roast should improve things. Should add some more control and remove smoke and chaff.


 Yep, I have that from the heat guns and the chaff remover (part of an old extractor fan)


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Rob1 said:


> It depends who's using it. Would agree if you can build something better principle though... The enclosed basket set up might have been good especially if you had a way of adding a fan to the chamber.


 Some one could make there own Amazon like roaster if they wanted. It would need the right fabrication kit mostly a decent tube roller. Decent ones are rather expensive and as usual with metal working kit there is some junk about that looks like it should be ok. Some tubing can probably be bought but the chances of larger sized radii parts being in suitable sizes are remote. It probably is possible to find something suitable for the inner drum.

John

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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

TomHughes said:


> Yep, I have that from the heat guns and the chaff remover (part of an old extractor fan)


 I was picturing a closed drum with heat guns outside and then a perforated drum spinning around within that....



ajohn said:


> Some one could make there own Amazon like roaster if they wanted. It would need the right fabrication kit mostly a decent tube roller. Decent ones are rather expensive and as usual with metal working kit there is some junk about that looks like it should be ok. Some tubing can probably be bought but the chances of larger sized radii parts being in suitable sizes are remote. It probably is possible to find something suitable for the inner drum.
> 
> John
> 
> -


 Think I saw a project on homebarista where someone was building their own roaster. They got a big steel drum fabricated I think from thick sheet metal that was rolled and welded. Result looked good but it wasn't cheap.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Not sure but doesn't the Amazon use a mesh inner basket? There may be steel or stainless steel tube around of suitable size for a small inner drum. Some people have fabricated there own mesh drum. Stainless mesh is available but think they used aluminium - youtube maybe. For an outer skin I would look at aluminium sheet - double skin with ceramic fibre blanket between them. Aluminium plate for the ends for something to fasten onto. Aluminium for bits to stir the beans. The edges of aluminium plate can be finished off with a router - even on a trammel.

Heating - these things are available in several sizes and also with a built in thermocouple

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/245-60-mm-9-6-2-4-Ceramic-Infrared-Heater-Elements-250-400-500-750-1000W/253219638776?hash=item3af5110df8:m:mEIiNDLQ7JKC9DjP-jDDp2w

Enclosed they will get too hot so a thermocouple would be needed. There are plenty of options in this area. Used in series from 240v they may be ok as could other styles or might still get too hot.

The whole thing might benefit from some lateral thought to make it simpler but achieving the same features from a use point of view. I'd guess that on some the stirrers might be the only parts that rotate for instance.

LOL I'm probably too old now to take on something like this but you never ever know with me. Making something work more effectively is more likely hence the Gene.

 I have wondered about a mesh drum, some of those heaters and a tangential fan for cooling. Worrying about chaff later.

John

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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

DIY is not only about the results, love the approach of building stuff myself! When I finally find time to finish my Frankenroaster, I'll let you guys know ???


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