# Gushing Second Stage



## Dunk (Mar 26, 2015)

So recently when i have been pulling shots i am finding the fist stage of the shot (1-20 second or so) have been clean and consistent but then the last 5-10 second the shot shart to "gush" / run super quick. I am assuming this is more a technique thing that anything but ay idea how to fix it?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Dunk said:


> So recently when i have been pulling shots i am finding the fist stage of the shot (1-20 second or so) have been clean and consistent but then the last 5-10 second the shot shart to "gush" / run super quick. I am assuming this is more a technique thing that anything but ay idea how to fix it?


Which machine and which grinder? Single sousing by any chance?

This used to happen to me when I was single dosing a grinder not designed for it.


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## Dunk (Mar 26, 2015)

Grinder is EK43 and yes single dosing.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Is the gushing confined to one bean? Have experienced same thing - no change in barista technique. The grind setting I've used was correct - going coarser would not help. When I've changed to another bean, problem goes away.


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## Dunk (Mar 26, 2015)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Is the gushing confined to one bean? Have experienced same thing - no change in barista technique. The grind setting I've used was correct - going coarser would not help. When I've changed to another bean, problem goes away.


 Thats a fair point, not sure as only have one been on the go at the moment. Though i do remember it happening with outs before.


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## Dunk (Mar 26, 2015)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Is the gushing confined to one bean? Have experienced same thing - no change in barista technique. The grind setting I've used was correct - going coarser would not help. When I've changed to another bean, problem goes away.


 Just tried with another bean and getting a similar result. Taste is also not completely there definite notes of bitterness evening though ratios are ok. 18g-40-45g in 30s.


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## ArisP (Dec 17, 2019)

How old is the espresso machine? Any chance of pump/OPV/scale buildup messing with the flow of water?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Are you stirring the grinds in the portafilter? Also, tap the dosed portafilter on the bench to settle any caverns. If using an 18grm VST, cut dose to 17.5 or 17grm and adjust grind to get 1:2 ratio. Are you preinfusing? On my L1r, I am preinfusing for around 10secs to first drips. Shot complete in 30-40secs.


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## Dunk (Mar 26, 2015)

ArisP said:


> How old is the espresso machine? Any chance of pump/OPV/scale buildup messing with the flow of water?


 This isn't an issue its clean and new ish!



The Systemic Kid said:


> Are you stirring the grinds in the portafilter? Also, tap the dosed portafilter on the bench to settle any caverns. If using an 18grm VST, cut dose to 17.5 or 17grm and adjust grind to get 1:2 ratio. Are you preinfusing? On my L1r, I am preinfusing for around 10secs to first drips. Shot complete in 30-40secs.


 Not stirring. Is this recommended? Do tap before tamping to try and distribute evenly. Yep using an 18g VST. Sure can down the dose a little or i can use a 20g VST which i also have.

As for pre infusion i am around 5s but the pre infusion isn't strong enough pressure to get and first drips if that makes sense?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Good idea to stir the grinds to ensure fines are evenly distributed - can be done in the dose tumbler. Alternative to stirring is a damn good shaking before dumping into the portafilter. Pre-infusion ensures the puck is fully saturated before being hit by full pressure. Wondering if your puck isn't properly saturated and the possible cause of channeling.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

If stirring doesn't help...Are you using a light tamp by any chance? When I had problems with pucks eroding rapidly half way through a shot with a blend and found tamping hard stopped it from speeding up before the shot was done. You might also try grinding finer and running the shot for longer but no idea if an EK43 would produce good results like that (heard somewhere EK shots tend to run best at about 20-25 seconds??) but if you get chanelling or you start to get sourness again you'll probably have to dial back.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

You may be getting late channelling of some form. In addition to what has been mentioned basket fill height may have something to do with that. Too light a tamp as well. My view on that is 15kg is ok but I wonder about 10 especially if there is some grinds clumping. Really bad firm clumping may need more than that.

A question on testing fill height with a coin is well up the new posts at the moment. No point in repeating. Too low might cause this sort of thing.

John

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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Not decaf by any chance is it? I've experienced that sometimes as the beans can be so brittle and the puck can break-down quickly early in a shot

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dunk (Mar 26, 2015)

Not decaf.

Stirring and dosing 17.5g in 18g VST did seem to help a bit. See video below of the shot. Much better than the one i posted about initially but still has a little gush at the end.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rm5fk066cu1c5bn/Extraction.mov?dl=0


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## Michael87 (Sep 20, 2019)

Is there normally no blonding? I've never seen the liquid turn thin before it blonds.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

That looked pretty bad, a dead spot that never filled in and multiple streams that form one that starts splurting and gushing. Channeling is your cause. If the coffee doesn't have room to expand that could be the cause. I assume harder tamping hasn't helped any if so the only way I've got around extractions like that is by changing the grind. Try dosing 16/17g and see if it helps.


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## Dunk (Mar 26, 2015)

Rob1 said:


> That looked pretty bad, a dead spot that never filled in and multiple streams that form one that starts splurting and gushing. Channeling is your cause. If the coffee doesn't have room to expand that could be the cause. I assume harder tamping hasn't helped any if so the only way I've got around extractions like that is by changing the grind. Try dosing 16/17g and see if it helps.


 Could always use the 20g VST to increase the head room as well?


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## brewslew (Aug 8, 2019)

I have been using this columbia from bella barista and I got the same problem, ended up just up dosing until it stopped. was channelling in my case, probably because the beans are quite dense.


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