# How does the Niche compare on pure grind quality ? (£400-600 range)



## Michael87 (Sep 20, 2019)

I am interested in the Niche Zero but I want to understand the alternatives at this price point purely in terms of grind quality. Single dosing is nice but absolutely not essential to me.

I found the following in that price range:



Eureka Mignon Specialita (55m flat) - £380


Rocket Faustino (50mm flat) - £ 495


*Niche Zero (63mm conical) - £500*


Eureka Zenith 65E (65mm flat) - £550


Reviews I have read of the Niche are a bit limited in comparison of grind quality against these types of grinder. I'd like to know if the popcorning behaviour (and resulting wide grind variety), even when mixed up, puts the Niche at a disadvantage to non single-dose machines in this range.

Also are there any other good ones in this range? (new, not used).


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

What is the grind quality parameter you are most interested in & do you have it for the other grinders?

You can pull normally extracted shots on the Niche around 1:2 ratio.


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## Michael87 (Sep 20, 2019)

I suppose by grind quality I mean how good does the espresso taste with everything else held the same.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Michael87 said:


> I suppose by grind quality I mean how good does the espresso taste with everything else held the same.


 Fair enough, but that's not a question about grind quality per se. It's a question about taste preference.

Good luck with it though


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

you cannot compare 50 and 55 mm flat burrs to 65 mm flats, or any of them to a conical. Smaller burrs tend to clump at espresso settings. I think the Niche is well documented on here. Sorry, you sound like the normal person who wants to swim against the tide! Best try and find folks near you that have the grinders you adore and try them out


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Michael87 said:


> I suppose by grind quality I mean how good does the espresso taste with everything else held the same.


 You're comparing a conical to flats...

With all else the same you'd be better off comparing it to a Pharos, HG1, Kony, Robur, Compak, Monolith and Ceado conicals.

Home barista tests compared it to an EK43 and shouldn't be hard to find. They did a bit of taste testing against different grinders.

Got a large flat ceado to compare it to at some point but I switched from that to the Pharos with no complaints and from Pharos to Niche with some improvement, though my technique has probably improved a lot in that time.

You should be able to find the comparisons you're after over on home barista quite easily.


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## Michael87 (Sep 20, 2019)

dfk41 said:


> you cannot compare 50 and 55 mm flat burrs to 65 mm flats, or any of them to a conical. Smaller burrs tend to clump at espresso settings. I think the Niche is well documented on here. Sorry, you sound like the normal person who wants to swim against the tide! Best try and find folks near you that have the grinders you adore and try them out


 But that's the thing. I want to compare them. Why can't I? They are in a similar price range and I'm thinking about upgrading. Is it because it is subjective? Or is it really obvious that bigger is better?

I guess my fundamental question is: if the niche was not single dose, would it stand up to the competition in is price range?


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## Michael87 (Sep 20, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> You're comparing a conical to flats...
> 
> With all else the same you'd be better off comparing it to a Pharos, HG1, Kony, Robur, Compak, Monolith and Ceado conicals.
> 
> ...


 My difficulty is that these are all far outside my price range. I googled the EK43 and it's £2,200! So the comparisons are not going to affect my buying decision. I will have another check on home barista but I found most of the grinders mentioned are either very expensive (e.g. comparing single dosers) or they are less common in the UK (e.g. not sold by a reputable outlet with a trustworthy returns service).

Is flat just better than conical and that's why people are saying I shouldn't compare them? I don't understand.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Michael87 said:


> But that's the thing. I want to compare them. Why can't I? They are in a similar price range and I'm thinking about upgrading. Is it because it is subjective? Or is it really obvious that bigger is better?
> I guess my fundamental question is: if the niche was not single dose, would it stand up to the competition in is price range?


I'd encourage you to think differently.

What do you want, single dose or hopper fed?

If you want single dose, go for the Niche, as it's designed to do that.

If you want hopper fed, get the zenith, as it has bigger burrs.

You can definitely taste the difference between the smaller burrs and the bigger burrs. Flat vs conical will give you different taste profiles, and taste is subjective.

I currently have a Niche and I'm really happy with it.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

People will tell you flat and conical are very different but I don't see why it would be silly to compare similarly priced grinders. I think it's actually very hard to get any feedback that's going to compare those particular grinders though because who ends up with 2 at a very similar price? Even then taste is both subjective and kind of nebulous - like I could have used a grinder a while ago but how will I know if the taste I had that day was down to the beans, machine, actually what I had eaten or drunk that day etc.

There are people like DaveC who wrote the original review very in depth review who went from a grinder with bigger burrs - can't remember which - and said the Niche was just as good or better. There are also people like ppapa and coffeechap who said the Niche isn't as good as everybody is saying.

I'm somewhere in the middle but towards the end that thinks it's a really good grinder. It's not as good as my EK or my Mythos but I don't use the mythos at home for shots. I use the Niche and EK depending on how I'm feeling. I can change beans and it's so simple to clean etc. that it's really ideal for me.

Don't underestimate how much coffee you can waste with a grinder with a hopper. I'd be interested to try and do blind tests with grinders one day but if you think about properly blind taste tests and how it would work, it's quite hard to see how it would be done very well.

Anyway, in case you haven't seen it, James Hoffman reviewed it a while ago, I can't remember exactly but pretty sure it was overall positive < link to it...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Michael87 said:


> But that's the thing. I want to compare them. Why can't I? They are in a similar price range and I'm thinking about upgrading. Is it because it is subjective? Or is it really obvious that bigger is better?
> 
> I guess my fundamental question is: if the niche was not single dose, would it stand up to the competition in is price range?


 Without sounding like a Niche owners club member, you are not setting a sensible parameter to test. If it is taste you are after, then the rule of thumb is if you want a flat go as large a burr set as possible. The bigger the burr, the bigger the crushing/grinding area. Flats generally work by throwing the coffee out with centrifugal force which requires RPM. Conicals tend to work as slower speeds with the force of nature pointing downwards. A lot say flats suit medium and lighter, conicals medium plus and darker.

The best thing you can do, is go and try them since the taste tetst cannot be stressed enough. But to find a small grinder using Mazzer Kony burrs with a slow spin speed. next to no retention, kitchen friendly is pretty unique. We need some lighter roasted Niche owners to tell us their experiences taste wise. And do not forget, if you ask a Porsche owner what the best car in the world is, then you already know the likely response


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have a Niche and a Mythos. It really does depend on the bean but sometimes the Niche brings out flavours the Mythos does not, and vice versa. Not everyone can have 2 grinders that I accept. But the one thing the Niche does really well, and I do not think anyone will argue, is its ability to switch grind levels quickly and accurately. I can go from brewed to espresso to anywhere I want, as long as I remember the setting at the flick of the wrist


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Michael87 said:


> My difficulty is that these are all far outside my price range. I googled the EK43 and it's £2,200! So the comparisons are not going to affect my buying decision. I will have another check on home barista but I found most of the grinders mentioned are either very expensive (e.g. comparing single dosers) or they are less common in the UK (e.g. not sold by a reputable outlet with a trustworthy returns service).
> 
> Is flat just better than conical and that's why people are saying I shouldn't compare them? I don't understand.


 Yes but you should be able to find comparisons to those grinders and smaller flats. As dfk says the larger the better. I had a Mignon and it was good but not as good as the Ceado 83mm, not as good as the Pharos or Lido E, of course that's subjective and could be down to my personal preference and abilities improving over time. In fact my brew water is completely different now to the brew water I was using with the Mignon though it wasn't far off 'ideal' parameters. So really I can't compare them despite having owned them used and upgraded.

I can say I find the Niche is easier to use than all of them. No purging, no tapping, quick and easy to adjust across a wide range with repeatability.

As jlarkin says blind taste testing is very difficult to do. Do you set an average particle size using sieves and taste shots made from "the same grind size" or do you measure extraction yield and compare tastes of shots at the same EY? Or do you adjust each grinder to deliver the same yield in the same time and compare taste, EY, and average grind size? The testing on home barista is as thorough as you're going to find and their conclusion tends to be that you can pull comparably rated shots on any decent grinder, it's just a matter of dialling in.


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## birel101 (Dec 28, 2019)

Would this grinder be ok for a beginner? I'm coming from a barista express and have only ever used a grinder that's built in with the machine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Yes.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

birel101 said:


> Would this grinder be ok for a beginner? I'm coming from a barista express and have only ever used a grinder that's built in with the machine.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 It would be just fine for a beginner.
I'll echo dfk41's comments. I'm lucky enough to have a Niche and a 65e. These days, I mostly use the Niche. However, I do like coffee at the darker end of the roast spectrum.


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

FWIW, I have a Niche and a BE.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

One persons god-shot is another persons bog water. It's a very personal thing. Depends on your preferred bean and roast levels. I wouldn't swap the NIche for any of those grinders you mentioned in the OP. You'd get a different response from someone else.


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