# Sage Barista Pro - I give up



## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

So I bought a Barista Pro a little while ago for £450 and for one reason or another I'm onto my third replacement. Unfortunately I'm now experiencing an issue with the steam function, which today stopped mid steam and the steam/hot water knob became very stiff. I managed to replicate the problem shortly after. The machine is relatively new and hasn't been used much.

In general I'm simply not convinced by the new thermojet system and the reliability of these machines - I have to admit it's put me off sage. I can return the machine to the retailer for a full refund.

Admittedly I was temped by the Sage DB which is discounted to £900 with the code posted on here - but that might simply lead to a more expensive problem.

Unfortunately it doesn't leave many options around the BP price point. I like the speed and convenience of the thermojet and prefer to buy new machines. Having used a gaggia classic I'm personally not a fan, especially as it seems to run out of...steam.

So that leaves paying more than double for a dual boiler like the Lelit Elizabeth + separate grinder. Are there any other good alternatives? Is the sage DB even worth considering? I prefer a fast start up and relatively low maintenance. I usually make lattes but also learning (slowly) to appreciate espresso and make americanos. There also doesn't seem to be an alternative to a niche for single dosing (less than £500), unless I'm mistaken?

I seem to be getting carried away and I'm not sure I can justify the cost of the above based on my coffee drinking habits (usually weekends but now weekdays as working from home). I do however appreciate that a good machine can last for years if looked after properly and also enjoy the process of making coffee..so there is that.


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Have you considered a pavoni? Easy to maintain, quick to heat up, cheap, plenty of steam

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

MaraX perchance


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

My Granny used to say "if you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything"......in reverence to my Granny i'll keep quiet....post and post title says it all.


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## earthflattener (Jul 27, 2015)

I've got a Sage DB and am very happy with it. I've not seen anyone post serious problems about them - not sayin that that there aren't any.

If you want to dig into some detail about it, this is probably not the site. Try https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/breville-dual-boiler-five-years-on-t45361.html

I'd be tempted by the Lelit ones myself, especially Elizabeth as it's DB, but DavecUK, if I remember right, concludes that the MaraX is almost as good as a DB . They are pig ugly, but then the Sage DB isn't going to win any beauty contests.

You need a thick skin to own a Sage round these parts though!!

As a curiosity, I had a read of Brevill's annual report for fun (a clear case of lockdown fever). Turns out Breville/Sage do release figures about the cost to them of replacements and repairs to their machines in their annual report. It is about 1% of their sales volume (i.e 7MM AUD of a total of 660MM AUD) - which I would suggest implies a fairly acceptable failure rate.


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Relax a bit he just wants suggestions on possible new machines not a massive argument about sage. Mara x not bad looking in my opinion infact it's pretty nice

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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

KTD said:


> Have you considered a pavoni? Easy to maintain, quick to heat up, cheap, plenty of steam
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Initially I thought you meant their lever machine. If not do you have a specific model in mind? Thanks.



DavecUK said:


> MaraX perchance


 I'll have to read through your review of the MaraX and Elizabeth in more detail, as well as two long threads. I actually prefer the more traditional look of the MaraX but the functionality of the Elizabeth. I'm hoping the Elizabeth looks better in person than in pictures - it looks quite industrial to me, like a silvia. Seems like it's easy to get around the slow heat up time on the MaraX with a smart plug. Is it more work to maintain than the Elizabeth e.g. lubrication after backflushing? From a quick read, the Elizabeth is better in this regard. What would be your personal pick of the two? Of course the MaraX is £200 cheaper currently. Cheers.



earthflattener said:


> I've got a Sage DB and am very happy with it. I've not seen anyone post serious problems about them - not sayin that that there aren't any.
> 
> If you want to dig into some detail about it, this is probably not the site. Try https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/breville-dual-boiler-five-years-on-t45361.html
> 
> ...


 I know there is much debate here on Sage machines  Having used a BE and BP now, I have lost a bit of faith. I want to like them but they seem to over-complicate the machines in order to simplify the user experience...which in fact leads to inconsistent results. Maybe the DB with it's more traditional dual boiler set up is better/different. However if other well reviewed machines exist which offer better repairability, maybe its not really worth considering.

Does anyone have any thoughts on a grinder? Or is it basically mignon specialita if you fill the hopper (I don't) and niche for single dosing?


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

I meant a lever, europiccola(smaller, quicker to heat up, needs to be cooled down and filled after every 3 drinks, or professional(5-6 drinks)

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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

The marax would fit the bill and add to it say a mignon grinder 200 to 350 and thats a good setup

Its a hx machine, i have my hx on a wifi plug so it comes on 30mins before i use it.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

> I'll have to read through your review of the MaraX and Elizabeth in more detail, as well as two long threads. I actually prefer the more traditional look of the MaraX but the functionality of the Elizabeth. I'm hoping the Elizabeth looks better in person than in pictures - it looks quite industrial to me, like a silvia. Seems like it's easy to get around the slow heat up time on the MaraX with a smart plug. Is it more work to maintain than the Elizabeth e.g. lubrication after backflushing? From a quick read, the Elizabeth is better in this regard. What would be your personal pick of the two? Of course the MaraX is £200 cheaper currently. Cheers.


 I have the pleasure of both machines, so it's difficult to say what's right for you, I like them both in different ways. You have to read the reviews and make a decision


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

This discussion is getting unproductive, please don't give me work to do (as you will have both posted for nothing)... it's becoming personal and unacceptable, please chill guys.


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## earthflattener (Jul 27, 2015)

I don't want to engage in any flame war.

To be honest, if I was spending £1000+ on a new machine, I would also be looking at a Lelit. Probably the Elizabeth as I'm not sure I'd like to lose the dual boiler.

For new users, writing positive things about machines is useful especially when it is backed up. Writing negative things about a machine is useful only when it is backed up


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

The thing that is tough to fulfil in your brief is the quick to heat up. You can get machines to speed up their heat up time by drawing water through the group but that is not always a practical solution.

If you have a fairly regular usage pattern then a smart plug to switch it on for you is a great solution.

If you do not have a regular use pattern, then a good option is a Bezzera BZ10 as they have heating elements in the group. They are ready a lot faster than a thermosyphon group. The problem with the BZ10 is that you will need to import one from somewhere as we are the only UK retail and I am afraid we are sold out.

David


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

I know I'm going to sound like a broken record- but. Having started with a classic, moved through a couple of HXs to a Fracino Cherub (on a WiFi plug so smart timed and with the ability to switch on from my office or car) today I brought home my pavoni,and wondered why I didn't do it years ago- under £500 new, heats like a kettle- so easy to use- I'd always thought it was some sort of mystical higher plane of coffee pretension, but it's one of the easiest coffees I've made and beautiful to look at. (And a small footprint so happy husband!)

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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Missy said:


> I know I'm going to sound like a broken record- but. Having started with a classic, moved through a couple of HXs to a Fracino Cherub (on a WiFi plug so smart timed and with the ability to switch on from my office or car) today I brought home my pavoni,and wondered why I didn't do it years ago- under £500 new, heats like a kettle- so easy to use- I'd always thought it was some sort of mystical higher plane of coffee pretension, but it's one of the easiest coffees I've made and beautiful to look at. (And a small footprint so happy husband!)
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 8T using Tapatalk


My thoughts exactly. I followed a similar path. I buy other machines because I want to use them but I certainly don't need them, I have a few more on the list and after I've tried them I'm almost certain I'll end up back with a europiccola.

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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> I have the pleasure of both machines, so it's difficult to say what's right for you, I like them both in different ways. You have to read the reviews and make a decision


 I thought you might say that  I'll have a good read through both reviews.

@Cuprajake from what I've read you can't single dose with a mignon which would be my preference. MaraX definitely being considered, thanks.

@Black Cat Coffee thanks, I'll take a look at the Bezzera BZ10. How does it stack up against a MaraX or Elizabeth? As per DaveC's review either machine can switch on/off in the morning/evening with a smart plug at minimal cost for the day.

@Missy@KTD I definitely see the appeal of a pavoni but for my second machine I like the idea of it doing more of the work but also having control of preinfusion, temp etc. The ability to make a number of drinks in quick succession is another requirement for me. That's why the barista pro was appealing at its respective price point and now more so the Elizabeth as a DB. If you went from a classic directly to a pavoni surely you would have felt like you were missing out? It seems like a machine you end up with once you tried everything else on your list, as you mentioned KTD.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I may end up with a new machine and fresh beans with no grinder 😄 The options seem limited. A hand grinder seems like far too much work..


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

I went from a Sage BP (thermojet is pants as you say)

to a Pavoni. Couldn't be happier. One day I might experiment with a Mara or similar but for now I love it!


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## Coffeenoobster (Nov 24, 2018)

Whelp I guess I made a mistake getting a Sage BP.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

earthflattener said:


> I don't want to engage in any flame war.
> 
> To be honest, if I was spending £1000+ on a new machine, I would also be looking at a Lelit. Probably the Elizabeth as I'm not sure I'd like to lose the dual boiler.
> 
> For new users, writing positive things about machines is useful especially when it is backed up. Writing negative things about a machine is useful only when it is backed up


 I came across this thread again recently, and I fully agree with you.




Coffeenoobster said:


> Whelp I guess I made a mistake getting a Sage BP.


 I'm sure you're getting the hang of it and for some...it's the first step to enter the world of coffee and perhaps the limit to what they can afford. If I wanted my son to have a machine at university....I'd probably buy him this machine.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I'd be inclined to tell people to buy a Bambino and an SGP these days but wish I had used a Bambino. I have used a BE and am fully aware of it's limitations and what to do about them. The thermocoil does have a limitation. The jet - pass but Sage usually improve rather than going backwards. They improved when they went from a block to a coil. I see people measuring brew temperature in completely stupid ways when there really are simple methods of telling if there is a problem in that area. Sage machines are waiting to break - all machines do. I sometime think about John Lewis in London and imagine them selling to a local and saying you do realise that you live in a very hard water area. Maybe in a perfect world but I'll bet no retailers mention this aspect. Sage provide a true softening filter now. Not cheap but they generally aren't. Some use bottled water and choose the wrong brand.

Personally an earlier view of them is better. A lot for people's money when all factors are taken into account. All of their machines. Thermo machines do need looking after a bit better due to scale. The effects will be more apparent sooner than on a boiler machine. On the other hand all of their machines are easy to descale. Pretty unique that. Many need spanners.

Some parts are available. If the electronics go awol that can be a problem. It doesn't seem to figure much but can happen. A few people resurrect them by fitting different parts. Piping in particular but apart from O rings lots seem to go on for ages. Way too many O rings can be bought for a few quid. The DB is prone to problems with them but only a particular pair. There is plenty of info on what can be done to DB's and some of the same things could be done to their others.

They are all turn on and use machines even the DB. Bit longer with that one - 3mins. That can be extended if the portafilter is also heated but personally I find it makes no difference. It probably would for a pure espresso drinker but lots probably allow shots to cool anyway. Usual full heat up time of an E61 machine is well over 1/2hr. Other type of groups pass but take a Picino for instance that is 1/2hr as well. Some would say longer and add temperature surfing as many cheaper machines do. When PID is add to this range and some one actually measures brew temperature they are usually a touch disappointed. Single boiler dual use is not ideal for all people anyway.


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