# As a newbie is the sage really that bad?



## Tiny (Apr 8, 2014)

Hi all, I'm new to all this, love coffee and been running a tassimo and French press. Don't get me wrong the wife loves the tassimo for hot chocolate etc and the longer coffees are drinkable it just doesn't do expresso, so.......

thinking of going the gaggia classic route and was looking at the mc2 on happy donkey, BUT the wife has said as an Easter present she wants to get me something out of the catalogue, so I could get the sage grinder as a present, leaves me more cash for a decent tamper, beans, milk jug etc ( only gaggia machines in catalogue are grangaggia and the pure gaggia)

i know they get mediocre reviews, but as a newbie would it get me started? I mean it's got to be a step up from tassimo and packets of supermarket coffee right?!?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

What Sage model is being offered in the catalogue and the price?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Depends what your going to use the grinder for.....if it's for a carafe, you might as well get a £30 burr grinder, save your pennies and buy what you really want....when you know what that is. If you think all you will ever want is Gaggia, then it almost doesn't matter the sage or any grinder of that I'lk, many are a little cheaper, will probably be OK. If you want to rethink your choice of machine in the light of total cost of ownership, what you want out of coffee, resale value if you want to upgrade, then I would suggest waiting a little while reading more, understanding as much as you can about your choice, before taking the plunge with any equipment. You could be at the stage of not knowing what you really want.



> i know they get mediocre reviews, but as a newbie would it get me started? I mean it's got to be a step up from tassimo and packets of supermarket coffee right?!?


In the same way roller skates are a step up from walking....yes.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

To quote Gary, from a while back, in another thread.

"I would take one over an MC2 any day of the week"

And he is a man who knows his coffee. Oh and someone at some point will pick you up on this so its eSpresso, not eXpresso, a pet hate of many a coffee snob


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

D_Evans said:


> Oh and someone at some point will pick you up on this so its eSpresso, not eXpresso, a pet hate of many a coffee snob


The French have a lot to answer for


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

I'd have to agree with Gary it's better than an MC2 in every way, particularly it's electronic dosing, it has a portafilter holder that unlike the MC2 actually works and is fit for purpose and the consistency of dose, even given that the grind consistency is about the same as an MC2 the electronics put it streets ahead. Something else to be noted is that it's far far easier to take apart to deep clean, unlock the hopper remove it, unlock the top burr and carrier, a pair of pliers or a small spanner will then let you remove the bottom burr, also you don't lose your grind setting when doing this either.

If that's what your wife wants to do and you think that you'll be happy with a Gaggia for a while then go for it. I kept my Classic for 7 years, some of which was due to budgetary constraints, but it never missed a beat and survived being shipped back to the UK from Australia in a shipping container along with a lot of my other wordly possessions, it recently survived a trip to it's new owner in Thailand in his parents hold baggage for the flight. It was a good machine to learn the basics on and if you can get to a point where your shots are consistently good on a Classic it stands you in good stead for whatever you upgrade too.


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## Tiny (Apr 8, 2014)

Cheers for the quick replies, think this is the way forward, wife offered me the sage Batista express, but reading on here having a grinder and machine is one is not the best way forward, can't upgrade one without the other etc

hmm amazon are doing the classic gaggia for £219


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Check amazon warehouse deals..... If you haven't already

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gaggia-Classic-RI8161-Machine-Professional/dp/B0000C72XS/ref=sr_1_1?m=a2oaj7377f756p&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1396962333&sr=1-1&keywords=Gaggia+classic

£177 , price can go up or down on these


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

And Ebay, picked mine up for £75 and its in great condition!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Tiny said:


> Cheers for the quick replies, think this is the way forward, wife offered me the sage Batista express, but reading on here having a grinder and machine is one is not the best way forward, can't upgrade one without the other etc
> 
> hmm amazon are doing the classic gaggia for £219


Is it not worth just taking a few weeks to read the forum, learn a bit more and think about what you really want, before taking the plunge....just give yourself a little more time. There are better machines, better grinders, used bargains etc..

It seems there will be loads of people happy to lead you down the path you seem to want to tread...and that could lead to 5 years with a classic Gaggia and a poor grinder. For the same amount of money (or perhaps 100-200 more) for an excellent grinder and decent machine which will give you many years of good service and good coffee....it would be a used machine and grinder, but it's going to be a whole lot better than what you are thinking of buying and they come up all the time as forum members upgrade.

Take your time....there is no rush!

Just wait a little while...


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Dave the thing is not everyone has the budget or the inclination to spend the sort of money a lot of do/ have done on our home espresso setups and for some weird reason a lot of people just will not buy used items of whatever variety. If the OP's wife has a fixed budget or it absolutely has to come from a catalogue on the never never then the Sage grinder is his best bet. For me personally I had a Sage grinder as part of the package deal on the review gear and as I had a much much better grinder I didn't keep it, it has a lot of fans in Australia that pair it with some rather pricey machines, I wouldn't go there myself but not knowing the OPs personal circumstances it's hard not to just advise him on the question he asked. If it were me making the decision a used Classic and a good used ex commercial grinder for a total outlay would be my path of choice, paired with a decent grinder the Classic will deliver far far better shots than you give it any credit for, although I guess if you are used to driving Ferraris then a Fiat 500 is a huge come down.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Charliej said:


> Dave the thing is not everyone has the budget or the inclination to spend the sort of money a lot of do/ have done on our home espresso setups and for some weird reason a lot of people just will not buy used items of whatever variety. If the OP's wife has a fixed budget or it absolutely has to come from a catalogue on the never never then the Sage grinder is his best bet. For me personally I had a Sage grinder as part of the package deal on the review gear and as I had a much much better grinder I didn't keep it, it has a lot of fans in Australia that pair it with some rather pricey machines, I wouldn't go there myself but not knowing the OPs personal circumstances it's hard not to just advise him on the question he asked. If it were me making the decision a used Classic and a good used ex commercial grinder for a total outlay would be my path of choice, paired with a decent grinder the Classic will deliver far far better shots than you give it any credit for, although I guess if you are used to driving Ferraris then a Fiat 500 is a huge come down.


Well I think I totally realise the statements about budgets...my advice to the other person is to wait learn and not rush into anything. I've made no assumptions about him or what he want to spend, or even the type of machine. I am not going to lead him by the hand to what he asked for, because I'm not so sure he knows what he really wants. *I am only asking him to slow down, wait, look and learn a bit before he rushes to buy.*



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## Tiny (Apr 8, 2014)

Cheers all, defo taking my time and reading up, it's one of the downfalls of reading and reading is information overload!

i prefer new to second hand as my run of bad luck with 2nd hand anything apart from furniture is diabolical!

my budget is not great


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## Tiny (Apr 8, 2014)

> I guess if you are used to driving Ferraris then a Fiat 500 is a huge come down.


used to instant or a tassimo so anything has got to be better than that!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Tiny said:


> used to instant or a tassimo so anything has got to be better than that!


He doesn't mean you he means me. I realise you have been turned off second hand, but a well cared for machine from a forum member can be a bargain. you say

Why not post your budget in the wanted section and see what you get offered for grinder and machine.....


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Dave the thing is, and I know you are kind of a sceptic about the whole business of better grinder rather than better machine, but generally the standard sort of advice to new members looking for a setup with a budget of around £500, generally this is also to include extras like tamper, milk jugs scales cups etc, is to go for something like a Classic and look for a good 2nd hand ex commercial grinder. Now for any of us with experience buying a good used grinder for £175 and having to do a little work on it like deep cleaning and new burrs etc is easy enough, but spending between £250-300 with Coffechap or other forum members selling their grinders for upgrades will get you a grinder in almost "as new condition". It also means your budget may also be able to accommodate some training too.

The considered opinion seems to be that particularly at the lower end of the market the grinder is way more important than the machine, a Classic with a good grinder will produce better shots than a £400 machine with a cheap grinder. When I upgraded my MC2 to the Brasilia RR55 with the Classic it was a night and day difference in quality of the shots produced, with experience a Gaggia Classic with a decent grinder will make good coffee reasonably consistently and when one decides to upgrade from the Classic you will lose very little or no money at all if you bought a used one.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Charliej said:


> Dave the thing is, and I know you are kind of a sceptic about the whole business of better grinder rather than better machine, .


I don't believe I have ever expressed that view and I am simply suggesting the other person not rush into things. Considered opinions are just that, considered opinions, not facts. Why do you want this person to rush down the road of a particular grinder and machine, just let them have a bit of time. I could have jumped in and said, look I got a fully working HX machine for £250, go get a used grinder for £175 and your sorted for less that £425...miles better than anything you will get new for the money. Did I...no, I didn't. Simply because I am not sure I know what he wants, you perhaps think you do, he might think he does...You are simply arguing with me over my statement that he take much more time over the decision, explore the options for longer, think about what he really wants and post in the wanted section.....I really can't see why you would want to do that?

I think



> generally the standard sort of advice to new members looking for a setup with a budget of around £500, generally this is also to include extras like tamper, milk jugs scales cups etc, is to go for something like a Classic and look for a good 2nd hand ex commercial grinder.


 Is a little one size fits all. Equally good advice could be, get a decent used commercial grinder, then use a carafe and save up a little, lurk a little, ask questions and decide what machine you might want to pair with it. You never know, the guy might decide he wants a Lever machine. perhaps he doesn't have the space for an ex commercial grinder and is force to look for a used Eureka Mignon, or Mazzer Mini.

I remember another forum where the advice to new members was always "get the Iberital MC2", from a particular vendor. I didn't much like that as advice either.

P.S. No one ask me about the HX machine, I already sold it earlier this evening.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

HI Dave, I'm sorry if it came over as trying to start an argument with you, I guess what I was trying to say is that at times you come across as seeming to say go for the better machine rather than the better grinder. I was also maybe overstating my case, but experience has taught me that the grinder can make a huge difference, moving to an ex-commercial 64mm burr grinder paired with my Gaggia produced good and reasonably consistent espresso that was leagues ahead of the Classic and MC2. I then moved to the Sage Dual Boiler still using my Brasilia RR55 and I was making great espresso, I then recently changed to a Eureka Mythos and again got a huge leap forward in the quality of my shots.

The larger beasts like a Mythos excepted there are things that can be done to make ex commercial grinders fit into your space more easily and make them easier to use in the home environment. So for me, along with a lot of other forum members, my advice to a new member with a £500 budget would be Gaggia Classic preferably a used one off a forum member, a used grinder again off the forum maybe a Mazzer Mini or SJ, it's always worth seeing what Coffeechap has, and spend the rest on some training.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Tiny said:


> i prefer new to second hand as my run of bad luck with 2nd hand anything apart from furniture is diabolical!


Buying a second hand Mazzer mini or the like will lead to less problems than buying a new Sage Smart. Especially if you buy from this forums classifieds. Something like a mazzer mini will live longer than you!


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Hello tiny, and welcome to the forum.

You will find a lot of members who are quite happy to help you on your coffee journey, so read as much as you can before you jump in.

My ten cents for what its worth : Don't forget to add into the mix . Cups, scales, tamper and milk jug(s). This may sound obvious but you would be suprised how much this lot will cost . Oh and don't forget the beans you going to need a few of them to get going.

You will also need a bit of patience and a bit of time , and if you have a friend who has a machine already , hook up with them and see how pull their shots.

And of course if you need help and advice, this forum seems to be the best place to get it, as their are lots of friendly members with a lot of knowledge and experience to help you on your journey.

If you decide to buy a secondhand Grinder you will soon find out through reading the forum that Coffeechap is the person to go to, which like so many other members I can personally vouch for.

If you decide to buy new Equipment there are also traders who support the forum and will match if not better any deal you can find.

Enjoy the journey.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Just dont get the gran gaggia, you must be talking about very, as they sell the sage grinder...

i got the gran from them and it was boxed up and sent back the next day... Cheap and nasty... The classic is a minimum must, honestly the difference is night and day... Got my classic from amazon £228 and now tempted to order sage grinder from very... But i just dont know....... So confusing for a noob, one things for sure my £100 bodum is already starting to show consistency issues....


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