# Using lever: fresh grind still too sour



## Buckley (May 15, 2014)

Don't want to use up the entire pound dialing it in, so I am looking for advice.

Machine: Londinium I

Heat: boiler 1.3 bar (at coast), ambient 22C, grouphead 85C.

Roast: Counter Culture Rustico, 4 days old. (medium roast espresso blend).

Grinds: Compak K-10. Dose 14 gm. First grind too fast, second 28 gm in 30 secs

Tamp: grounds sieved, WDT, Espro round bottom calibrated spring tamper

Notes: Naked PF. Twice mild inhomogeneity to stream. Tail-end catch cup after main cup removed actually tastes good (for a tail-end, not for a main shot).

In absence of advice, might updose with same grind setting or grind finer with same dose, but, to repeat, would prefer enlightened advice to schlogging around.

It will take me a while to get back on line - but I am caffeinated for now.

Buckley


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Hi, if it is the stock L1 basket, up the dose to 16 gms. If your beans are 4 days old, they are oprobably too fresh for use yet. The resting period varies form as little as 3 days with up to 23 days on some beans I have seen.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Yeah beans are probably still too fresh. I tried some yesterday that were roasted Monday and they tasted horrible, today they are slightly better but they will killer next week


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Updose, 14g is too low. for a medium-dark roast try 16g, for a light-medium roast 18g maybe even 20g.

For doses higher than 17 you'll need a different basket to stock, I can recommend the IMS ones.

Should taste a bit better in another couple of days as others say it's still a bit too fresh, but you should get drinkable shots with it.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Could I ask why you are dosing at 14grms? Certainly, for Reiss's bean offerings, ballpark dose is around 16grms.


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## Buckley (May 15, 2014)

Thanks, all. Will wait (using Redbird) then updose.









B


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

In the stock basket go to 16 g for a decent extraction .....


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Try a *tiny** bit coarser grind and a gram or so higher dose.

*only so you aren't clagging up the brew head.


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## Buckley (May 15, 2014)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Could I ask why you are dosing at 14grms? Certainly, for Reiss's bean offerings, ballpark dose is around 16grms.


Misremembered Reiss's advice, I set my mind on 14 instead of 16. 16 makes more sense.


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Reiss told me 15.7g to make 27g in 27sec.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

For a medium, I'd still go higher. Reiss himself said he had good results going up to 20g with the IMS basket.

I consistently dosed 15.8g when I first got the L1, since switching to the IMS basket and an 18.0g dose the coffee has improved a lot. This is with Light-Medium roasts.


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## Buckley (May 15, 2014)

Update to my OP:

All parameters the same except roast is now day 7: still sour. (35gm in 27 sec - grind setting unchanged from previously)

Updosed to 16 gm: improved but still too citric/malic for my enjoyment. (35gm in 37 sec - grind setting unchanged)

This is reminding me that a previous roast tasted much brighter than it did in the cafe; fortunately, it had plenty of depth of dark notes and body, which could be brought to complement the brightness. I think I should pay attention to my water (this is a pourover version of L1). The water from the tap is very soft, 1 degree both KH and GH, and I Brita filter it for taste, and the L1 has a filter residing in the tank. I think that i need to supplement it, but I will be moving, so this will have to wait. Meanwhile, with or without further advice, I will probably continue to updose and then tweak the grinder when close.

Buckley


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Just as a matter of interest, when do you (and other L1 owners) measure the time from?

Reiss said from when the first drops appear but I sometimes get a few dribbles during pre-infusion (generally when the pump kicks in to refill the boiler). I disregard these and time from when I lift the lever to start the extraction.

What does everyone else do??


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

DavidBondy said:


> Just as a matter of interest, when do you (and other L1 owners) measure the time from?
> 
> Reiss said from when the first drops appear but I sometimes get a few dribbles during pre-infusion (generally when the pump kicks in to refill the boiler). I disregard these and time from when I lift the lever to start the extraction.
> 
> What does everyone else do??


I start from when I release the lever now, but as I use lighter roasts I frequently let it run over 30 secs as I get better results


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Buckley said:


> Update to my OP:
> 
> All parameters the same except roast is now day 7: still sour. (35gm in 27 sec - grind setting unchanged from previously)
> 
> ...


Try higher still, if using the stock basket go for 17g or if using a bigger basket 18g. Try running slightly shorter (~27 secs) and longer (~40 secs) but with the same dose. If all of these taste sour too you, then maybe it's just the roast isn't particularly to your liking and you should go for something a bit darker? Some lighter roasts have tiny windows where they taste awesome though, and big windows where they taste nasty - hence trying a longer and shorter shot with a higher dose to see if you can get an improvement.


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## Orangertange (Jul 4, 2013)

DavidBondy said:


> Just as a matter of interest, when do you (and other L1 owners) measure the time from?
> 
> Reiss said from when the first drops appear but I sometimes get a few dribbles during pre-infusion (generally when the pump kicks in to refill the boiler). I disregard these and time from when I lift the lever to start the extraction.
> 
> What does everyone else do??


i count from first drip, but strange, never get drips before I lift the lever, well only if on for a gusher


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Orangertange said:


> i count from first drip, but strange, never get drips before I lift the lever, well only if on for a gusher


That is interesting. If I tighten the grind or tamp harder to stop the odd drip then I can be sure that I will choke the machine and probably get a messy sneeze on removing the PF!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Drop lever, wait 6-10 seconds, usually no drips but can see bleeding from the basket, raise lever start time, remember folks 27 seconds is the ballpark, some roasts well taste better quicker, some longer, it is down to you to play with the parameters, oh and try to record what you do then you have something to refer back to when you have that bean again.


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## Orangertange (Jul 4, 2013)

Cheers chap, never look for bleading , maybe I'll try a slightly longer pre infusion, ether way getting some pretty awesome coffee,


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

This is something that has always puzzled me, general advice for a lever machine being to start timing from the 1st drips or raising the lever, but for a pump machine no matter what you time from the moment you press the swutch or do whatever starts the pump. So if you have a pump machine that you can change the preinfusion time to whatever you want and adjust the pressure of the preinfusion ( as a percentage of 9 BAR) then why would you not time the shot the same way as a lever machine?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I had an amazing shot of coffee from Callum's roast (that boy can roast) that involved a 45 second preinfusion, amazing fruit and beautiful extraction. ( this length or pf preinfusion is not recommended as it may and I mean may cause a thermosyphon stall)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I had an amazing shot of coffee from Callum's roast (that boy can roast) that involved a 45 second preinfusion, amazing fruit and beautiful extraction. ( this length or pf preinfusion is not recommended as it may and I mean may cause a thermosyphon stall)


What grinder was that with ? One of the mazzers ?


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## Buckley (May 15, 2014)

Sorry to reply late. Although the spring on the L1 is single, it is quite powerful. I take advantage of this by grinding fine enough that preinfusion never breaches the basket. Therefore I start timing from the point that I can feel the hydraulic damping of the spring tension on the uplift; this is exactly when the 'bleeding' appears, but when I watch for and rect to the bleeding I will be starting the timing a fraction of a second later. As coffeechap said, it's all relative,

B


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