# 6 months from now , upgrading .



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Ok so hypothetically ( that's what I tell the Mrs....) upgrade advice wanted.

If in 6 months ( less if the PPI pays out ..... ) wanted to move up from the Silvia , what should I be looking for , given the following criteria.

Can't be plumbed in

footfall of say a cherub or rocket Ish

drink mainly milk based drinks currently , although am expanding my palate to espresso more

shiny and pretty (would keep mrs boots of my back )

i normally drink 4-5 lattes etc a day , but there are a couple of days a week when friends come round wanting more .

address the short fall of Silvia - temp surfing pain, small boiler , struggles to steam milk for more than 2 drinks quickly .

not a lever ( sorry coffee chap would not be step son friendly )

Budget £ 700-800 Ish ( am open to either new or refurbished if from somewhere/ someone reputable )

would be paired with a beast grinder

I throw myself on the mercy of the forum ......

Thanks in advance


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Cherub and Rocket (ish) in the same sentence?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

If you are wanting new, then a Cherub is hard to go past. If it is second hand, at that price you can find a bargain if you wait long enough. Go to B, look at their machines, draw up your short list and go hunting!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Cherub and Rocket (ish) in the same sentence?


I meant in the type of space that's available in the kitchen


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> If you are wanting new, then a Cherub is hard to go past. If it is second hand, at that price you can find a bargain if you wait long enough. Go to B, look at their machines, draw up your short list and go hunting!


I'd love to go to bella vista but , they don't stock fracino? Plus admission , I don't drive and live in the north, so wellingborough could be prohibitive for me on the train ( plus £80 plus for a ticket ! )


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> I'd love to go to bella vista but , they don't stock fracino? Plus admission , I don't drive and live in the north, so wellingborough could be prohibitive for me on the train ( plus £80 plus for a ticket ! )


Might be a good idea for a forum database where members can list their equipment and location and willingness to demo for forum members considering buying/upgrading. I would be happy to take part.

You've highlighted an issue that probably affects a lot of us when it comes to considering upgrading - that is, having hands on experience with machines on our short list but for various reasons, can't get to places like BB.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Might be a good idea for a forum database where members can list their equipment and location and willingness to demo for forum members considering buying/upgrading. I would be happy to take part.
> 
> You've highlighted an issue that probably affects a lot of us when it comes to considering upgrading - that is, having hands on experience with machines on our short list but for various reasons, can't get to places like BB.


 That's a great idea, I can't believe that there isn't a decent supplier of machines in the north of England . Seems madness but hey


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I've see a few cherubs on ebay recently , but going for silly prices give their age. Looking around you don't see many rockets come up second hand but I might be wrong .


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Never get one of BB boxes on a train, they are massive! Cherub is very good value and seem a lot of people are happy with them. When i looked to upgrade i had to decide on budget, Hx or db , E61 or not, specs based on boiler size, heating element etc , drip tray & quality of build all from a very good dealer.

If you put your budget up £300 you would have a lot more choice


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> I've see a few cherubs on ebay recently , but going for silly prices give their age. Looking around you don't see many rockets come up second hand but I might be wrong .


That says a lot, people are very happy with Rockets and BB sell a lot. ECM also very good. dont seem many quickmill owners on here. Expobar DB excellent machine for the money


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Sound advice , the £1000 barrier may be too much for me though . The guilt , the guilt .....

Correct me if I am wrong , the cherub is HX with a faux e61 head ?

I know there is tons of debate re HX and dual , but anyone care to offer a opinion re benefits.

Would any cherub owners care to comment on what volume of milk it's capable of steaming in one jug possibly?


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

I dont own a Cherub, but looking at the specs its possibly an excellent steamer with its large boiler and very big heating element


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> I'd love to go to bella vista but , they don't stock fracino? Plus admission , I don't drive and live in the north, so wellingborough could be prohibitive for me on the train ( plus £80 plus for a ticket ! )


Bella Barista you mean? Carrying a 20kg+ machine in a box the size of large microwave on the train?

Im knackered after carrying Brewtus from one room to another


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

A Mark One Alex has just sold to someone on here but on another forum for £200. Thats a dual boiler with a rotary pump. Personally, I would not look too hard until you have the money. new machines will always be there but if you see second hand and it is a bargain you need to be able to move immediately.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

steaming capability on a Cherub is very good - too good (until you get the hang of it) for the four hole wand


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> A Mark One Alex has just sold to someone on here but on another forum for £200. Thats a dual boiler with a rotary pump. Personally, I would not look too hard until you have the money. new machines will always be there but if you see second hand and it is a bargain you need to be able to move immediately.


If I saw a bargain I have the money, I guess part of me was getting advice for that reason, in case something withing my criteria came up.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Might be a good idea for a forum database where members can list their equipment and location and willingness to demo for forum members considering buying/upgrading. I would be happy to take part.
> 
> You've highlighted an issue that probably affects a lot of us when it comes to considering upgrading - that is, having hands on experience with machines on our short list but for various reasons, can't get to places like BB.


Patrick, that is brilliant! People benefit so much from having a play with something first!


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## Southpaw (Feb 26, 2012)

For a £800ish budget I'd opt for second hand over the new options available under £800. I waited 6 months + for the exact model to become available, but if you're not picky on the model you could do very well.

£200 for an Izzo Mk1 = stonking bargin. I think it might not be PID but still


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Patrick, that is brilliant! People benefit so much from having a play with something first!


Agreed , In part the people ask on the forum because we can't go and experience this equipment , and are looking for advice from owners . Plus I love a healthy debate and seeing the diverse opinions on subjects like this . Two minds are better than one etc.....


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> A Mark One Alex has just sold to someone on here but on another forum for £200.


Bargain. I wouldn't have had the gall to seagull-swoop that as a first post!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Agreed , In part the people ask on the forum because we can't go and experience this equipment , and are looking for advice from owners . Plus I love a healthy debate and seeing the diverse opinions on subjects like this . Two minds are better than one etc.....


Have emailed Glen to see if we can get something set up. Am sure plenty of forum members would be happy to showcase their equipment (?) warts and all (????)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Have emailed Glen to see if we can get something set up. Am sure plenty of forum members would be happy to showcase their equipment (?) warts and all (????)


Cool, although ill pass on the warts though. If you are ever up in Lancaster by the way and fancy a brew in priory hall , the drop me a line , I work close by. Always nice to meet me people .


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Cool, although ill pass on the warts though. If you are ever up in Lancaster by the way and fancy a brew in priory hall , the drop me a line , I work close by. Always nice to meet me people .


That would be great. Next time we're over in Lancaster, I'll PM you.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

If someone wants to sell me a mint LM Linea 1 group for 2k then you can have Brewtus for 800 quid


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Thats a dual boiler with a rotary pump.


You're thinking of the Alex Duetto. The regular Alex is an HX machine, and this is an early one. Should still make nice coffee though!


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

I'm sure the MK1 Alex was not built very well and had quite a few problems. probably priced about right.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

glevum said:


> I'm sure the MK1 Alex was not built very well and had quite a few problems. probably priced about right.


What problems? There were only slight changes between the mkii and mki as far as I was aware.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

To answer an old question, a cherub will steak through as much milk as you sensibly need. It's a large boiler running at pure steam pressure. It can maintain that pressure constantly even under use. I can steam enough for one drink in about 15 seconds, two drinks worth takes perhaps 20-25 seconds or so and I'm using a steam tip smaller than the one it comes with. With the original tip you could probably steam a litre in no time! But I find the standard tip unruly and rough.

The 4x1mm hole tip is in my opinion the best balance on this machine between speed and quality


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

RisingPower said:


> What problems? There were only slight changes between the mkii and mki as far as I was aware.


Im sure they had a lot returned due to leakage from a return valve. This was addresses in verion 2. See if i can find it on the net somewhere. Lovely machines. like Glenn said great coffee makers. I pine for a Duetto db


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

i pine for a faema lambro


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> i pine for a faema lambro


Not really within my budget .....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

shrink said:


> To answer an old question, a cherub will steak through as much milk as you sensibly need. It's a large boiler running at pure steam pressure. It can maintain that pressure constantly even under use. I can steam enough for one drink in about 15 seconds, two drinks worth takes perhaps 20-25 seconds or so and I'm using a steam tip smaller than the one it comes with. With the original tip you could probably steam a litre in no time! But I find the standard tip unruly and rough.
> 
> The 4x1mm hole tip is in my opinion the best balance on this machine between speed and quality


so how long have you had your cherub now shrink? May I ask are the replacement tips cheap , and easy to swap over ? Think you will stick with the machine for a while or seen anyhting better ? Love to hear your opinion


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

I've had my cherub for about 6 months. It's been great. Tips cost about £2.50 and just screw on and off.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

glevum said:


> Im sure they had a lot returned due to leakage from a return valve. This was addresses in verion 2. See if i can find it on the net somewhere. Lovely machines. like Glenn said great coffee makers. I pine for a Duetto db


If you're talking about the anti backflow valve, it's a very cheap and easy part to replace. I don't recall it being modified between versions either.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

These are the changes so far as i'm aware.

http://www.stoll-espresso.de/downloads/dl/file/id/107/izzo_alex_duetto_information.pdf


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

I paid £750 for my Isomac Tea, it produces a beautiful espresso and is very capable steamer!

Much better looker than a cherub IMO


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Walter Sobchak said:


> I paid £750 for my Isomac Tea, it produces a beautiful espresso and is very capable steamer!
> 
> Much better looker than a cherub IMO


You cant say that! You will start another v's debate.


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## bubbajvegas (Jan 26, 2013)

I reckon for circa £700 you can't beat the expobar DB aka brewtus,hell of a machine


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

tick tock tick tock, just waiting for the fracino owners to jump in!


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