# Nutating Technique. To stir or not to stir?



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm currently trying nutating with my Mignon (now there's a sentence I'd never thought I'd be saying 6 months ago).

I've given this a go a few times and haven't reached a conclusion as yet.

The one thought that's occurred to me is should I still be stirring the grinds first before nutating.

Stirring has improved my shots massively, mainly due to the better distribution of the grinds.

Is nutating just another way to distribute the grind that in theory could replace the stirring?

Also how many revolutions to people tend to do? I'm tending to be doing about 3.

Any nutating advice welcome to reduce bean consumption.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Check out Matt Perger's WBC routine, where he placed 2nd. NB he was using a high-end spice grinder and single dosing and distributing via a jam-funnel!


----------



## MarkyP (Jan 10, 2013)

I must admit I've been levelling and then nutating. I haven't had the guts to just dive straight in with the tamper on the mound of coffee...


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Over the last week or so I've moved away from my traditional method of stirring the grind in the pf WDT to nutating.

I've tried a variety of different ways e.g. nutating straight on the mound, stirring the grind then nutating etc

But the best results I've found so far has been levelling off, nutating and then lightly tamping.

I have also found that shots have tasted better if pulled slightly longer e.g 28-30secs rather than 25. Having said that it might just be a pure coincidence change of beans.

Anyone else mutate with a Mignon?

Gaggia Classic OPV and Silvia steam wand; Eureka Mignon; VST 15g, 18g & 20g Baskets;TORR plan 2 convex Tamper


----------



## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

I've been stirring the grounds with a cocktail stick all through the grind then nutating and tamping.

Using the Espro gives the consistant tamp pressure but I've not been counting the rotations as I didn't realise it would have that much of an effect. This could be why sometimes I've almost choked the extraction.

Ian


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Ha ha .....not sure if it was auto correct or plain old fat fingers!

Gaggia Classic OPV and Silvia steam wand; Eureka Mignon; VST 15g, 18g & 20g Baskets;TORR plan 2 convex Tamper


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Nutating allows a much lower dose and maintains a reasonable flow rate. WOWZERS!

For example I placed 17.8g in a 20g VST basket , didnt adjust the grind setting, didnt pay attention to distrubution, nutated & extracted 29g in 30 seconds, wonderful crema! Dont get excited just yet......It was bitter and thin!

20g in same basket, no nutating, 30g in 30 seconds....balanced shot, nice mouthfeel


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks Gary....doh!! I thought you were going to come up with the nutating holy grail.









At the moment I'm still getting better tasting results from stirring the grind. I was having a play about this morning and the last shot I did was by far the best ( no nutation).

I had been getting channelling with nutating but I seemed to be getting more consistent results with my latest nutating technique.

I think I was looking for an alternative to WDT

I'll give it another go when the DSOL beans have bedded in a bit more and give it a fair chance.

Gaggia Classic OPV and Silvia steam wand; Eureka Mignon; VST 15g, 18g & 20g Baskets;TORR plan 2 convex Tamper


----------



## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

I have been experimenting with nutating too. Just for the hell of it, I just went straight in to the pile of coffee with no distribution or anything else, put the tamper in square with just its own weight, then two nutation revolutions followed by a very light tamp. I got a fab shot. I thought it must have been a fluke, tried it again - identical, and it has been the same today for 4 shots. I am going to stick with it. I am using Revalation from Union if that makes any difference, with a 19.5g dose in a 20g basket, 30g out in 28 seconds. I have one of those Torr Plan to Convex tampers. I am going to stick with it and see what happens, but great so far.


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Cheers Wobin. I did try it straight into the mound but was getting variations in shot and side channelling. I might give it another try though.

Gaggia Classic OPV and Silvia steam wand; Eureka Mignon; VST 15g, 18g & 20g Baskets;TORR plan 2 convex Tamper


----------



## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

I find that a quick smooth over with the finger followed by a very slow start to the tamp, then a small amount of nutation, lessening the angle until the puck just seems to firm up. I find that I don't need to finish the tamp with any extra force just a quick polish. Seems to work pretty well here, no need for stirring and the brew is pretty even.

I think that they key is to use your regular dose of coffee just lower the tamp pressure, at least that's what I found.

Cheers

Spence


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Due to the slowing effect and ability to fit even more coffee in the basket I see potential for a really coarse grind (less likely to channel).

Need to have a play


----------



## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Anyone else mutate with a Mignon?


Only recently started mutating









Was reading a long random thread on here and coffeechap responded along the lines of "no issues I'm nutating". After a little research I have now adopted the technique with a light tamp to finish off.

Definitely stirring first with the grind produced by mignon.


----------



## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

Wobin19 said:


> I have been experimenting with nutating too. Just for the hell of it, I just went straight in to the pile of coffee with no distribution or anything else, put the tamper in square with just its own weight, then two nutation revolutions followed by a very light tamp. I got a fab shot. I thought it must have been a fluke, tried it again - identical, and it has been the same today for 4 shots. I am going to stick with it. I am using Revalation from Union if that makes any difference, with a 19.5g dose in a 20g basket, 30g out in 28 seconds. I have one of those Torr Plan to Convex tampers. I am going to stick with it and see what happens, but great so far.


Just an update. I recently got a bottomless portafilter, and it has revealed uneven extractions. Not spritzers, but not what I was expecting to see. Clearly I have got something wrong. The coffee still seems good to me, but perhaps it can be better...


----------

