# Sage Barista Express Grinder inconsistencies?



## harricam (Apr 9, 2020)

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone is having a similar issue to me. The past few days I have noticed that when I make two double shot coffees in the morning I am getting different results between the coffees and I can't figure out why. I am thinking it could be a grinder inconsistency...

Barista express..My method;

Turn on the machine, weigh exactly 19g of coffee, grind that 19g of coffee (the hopper is always empty), I use my distribution tool, palm tamp, run a single shot to warm up/clean, lock in the portafilter, hit programme/run and my stop watch. I aim for 2:1, 19g to 38g in 20-30 seconds. First coffee I get 24 seconds and the pressure gauge is about the 12/1 o clock position. Purge the machine and repeat. Second time round I get 28 seconds and the pressure gauge is past the 1 o clock position. I also notice when I tamp for the second time that the portafilter feels fuller and the tamper rests slightly higher in the basket than the first time round.

I can only think that the grinder is not delivering the same grind every time? I gave the grinder a clean to make sure no rebel beans where lodged and getting through.

Any ideas?

Thanks!


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

I am not hugely familiar with the BE but it is possible in your first shot you are getting the right weight of coffee but part of that is old retained grounds from your previous day. Then the second shot your get 'fresh' retained grounds plus the remaining weight of the coffee you are grinding for it.

I would suggest that you put a small amount of coffee in the hopper and grind that through as a purge to replace the old retained ground coffee with fresh before you start your routine.

I hope that makes sense and it is just a hypothesis. someone more familiar with them may be able to help you more.


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## harricam (Apr 9, 2020)

@Black Cat Coffee Thanks for the tip! I will give that a go tomorrow and see how it turns out.

This morning it happened again. Even to the point where the second shot was a dud and the pressure was way too high. It took 40s to come through. So I threw that one away and tried again but this time with 18g instead of 19g and it still happened! This time at about 35s. (Intrestingly the pressure started off really high and then eased off and a better flow came through) I even ran the grinder before to be sure nothing was in there. Next time I will physically take the hopper out and see if it is clear to go.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

Could the issue be that as a grinder with a hopper, it is designed to have beans in the hopper as opposed to single dosing so by keeping beans in the hopper the weight of the beans pushing down o the beans being ground will provide a better and more consistent grind?


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## Scwheeler (Jan 13, 2020)

I wonder if it may be temperature related?

Appreciate that the BE is different to my Bambino thermojet however I had a similar problem with the 2nd shot taking longer or choking.

I was running 3 single shots through with the dual wall single shot basket to warm machine up. However when I measured the temperature I could see that the temperature was about 4c cooler until 3 DOUBLE shots had been run through.

Now, as long as I've run 3 double shots through first I get a more consistent second cup and arguably a less sour coffee.


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Have quite a few friends with this machine it's definitely what @BlackCatCoffee ; said. Just dial in once you've got rid of 7-8g of coffee then make your espresso after purging out the stale coffee each morning.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## harricam (Apr 9, 2020)

Thank you for the tips @KTD @Scwheeler@dutchy101 I gave them all a go and I think running 3 double shots for heat and purging out any stale coffee before hand helped! I pulled two shots and they both had the same timings 👍


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## strebor (Oct 20, 2020)

Sounds like you've solved this but wanted to post some thoughts as a long time SBE owner.

I used to find the same problem. The consistency of my shots plagued me for a long time. Eventually once I'd switched to single-dosing, used a rotation-based grind distributor and then a calibrated tamper withI was able to get consistent extraction times. I haven't found the need to purge the stale grounds, but maybe that's shortsighted of me and would help even more.

Basically ironing out any inconsistencies in grind preparation was key for me.


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## brainkite (Nov 18, 2020)

harricam said:


> Thank you for the tips @KTD @Scwheeler@dutchy101 I gave them all a go and I think running 3 double shots for heat and purging out any stale coffee before hand helped! I pulled two shots and they both had the same timings 👍


 Do you do that straighten after turning up the machine in the morning or wait for 15-20min.

My theory was that it was coming from the grinder burrs temperature. I used to always have the grain basket full and after waiting 20min in the morning, shots were very consistent. Since I've tried to work with an empty basket to have the option to change my coffee, the grinds are super inconsistent. I have to dial back the grinder 2-3 clicks in the morning for the shots to go through. Then after a few shot, I have to dial it back to where it was.

My theory is that with the bean basket full. The grains are retaining temperature in the grinder and once it's hot, the shots are consistent. But when the basket is empty, the grinder is longer to build temperature and cooling down a bit between shots.


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## harricam (Apr 9, 2020)

brainkite said:


> Do you do that straighten after turning up the machine in the morning or wait for 15-20min.
> 
> My theory was that it was coming from the grinder burrs temperature. I used to always have the grain basket full and after waiting 20min in the morning, shots were very consistent. Since I've tried to work with an empty basket to have the option to change my coffee, the grinds are super inconsistent. I have to dial back the grinder 2-3 clicks in the morning for the shots to go through. Then after a few shot, I have to dial it back to where it was.
> 
> My theory is that with the bean basket full. The grains are retaining temperature in the grinder and once it's hot, the shots are consistent. But when the basket is empty, the grinder is longer to build temperature and cooling down a bit between shots.


 I keep an empty hopper so I can weigh my beans more accurately. I haven't actually used my machine with the auto grinder, a lot of people say it isn't very accurate but I will give it a go to see if it helps consistency. Thanks for the tip


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I notice this when I decided to taste 3 shots I made on the trot. I always made mine last and the taste of the first one surprised me. The 2nd was better.

It's down to things getting up to the correct temperature nothing to do with weighing beans in or stale coffee left in when used with the hopper on. I used it both ways., Talking in terms of what grinds come out rather than stay in the grinder when the hopper is on not much is retained. I didn't notice any problems using the single.

In theory all including the portafilter needs to be hot before a shot is pulled. On other machines people leave the portafilter on while the machine is heating up. Anything from 1/2hr to even more and then flush a bit. Flushing need a bit of care as it may cool brew water on them. Short and sweet may be needed. To some extent it depends on the size of the boiler.

What I did on the BE was fit an empty pressurised basket and run a moderate shot through it. It gets everything up to suitable temperatures even the portafilter. Then took it out and fitted the basket I intended to use and etc.  It's actually quick and easy to do and doesn't use much water. I think I have read of others running off a bit of steam first. I've no idea what that achieves. It does make some sense as just flushing wont get the thermocoil water flow up to 93C.

Theory and the portafilter. This may vary between machines. I use a Sage DB now so could leave the portafilter in to heat it. The machine takes a couple of mins to fully heat up. Heating the portafilter as well takes a lot longer so tried both ways. No significant difference. On the DB the actual coffee flow is cooled by the portafilter unless it is hot. On Sages other machines they have added a bit of plastic which more or less prevents that.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

harricam said:


> I keep an empty hopper so I can weigh my beans more accurately.


 It's a lot easier working that way. Put the hopper on and you will need to check the weight coming out pretty frequently and adjust the grind time. The other problem is tuning. Each time the setting is changed the output will as well so the time will need changing. That is normal on any grinder.


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