# 2 days with the Sage Barista Pro - some thoughts



## ImthatGuy (Dec 4, 2015)

Bought to fill the coffee gap while I decide what to do about my trusty Silvia (heating element gone).

Things I like:

- Ready to brew within seconds
- Fast switch back and further between brew and steam
- Lots of scope to tune the brew
- Excellent instruction manual (!) and easy setup
- Oh - and produces a very good shot and steams milk nicely (much to do to get it fully dialled in, but it's started very well)

Things I don't like so much:
- 54mm portafilter - I was happier with the 58mm on the Silvia - just felt right
- Feels less robust (because it's a third lighter in weight) than the Silvia
- Cup warmer doesn't warm cups

Overall, I'm pleased with it. I now have to decide what to do with the Silvia (diy repair, pro repair, sell as is).

Things I miss abut the Silvia:

- Simple, fully manual, robust, no-nonsense feel. It's a little like handwriting with a fountain pen, vs (Sage) using a word processor)
- 58mm portafilter (see above
- Nuclear powered steam wand
- Can switch it on remotely (via Homekit-enabled mains adapter). But the, that's how I killed the heating element, so maybe not.
- Can be user-repaired (even though I might not - thanks @Norvin for the responses)

Things I don't (and won't) miss about the Silvia

* Long warm-up time (20-30-minutes) before brew
* Long lag between brew and steam; longer between steam and brew
* The tiny tiny tiny drip tray. It's really very tiny. Really.
* Having to install and manage a PID

Shout out to @TomHughes, whose post at the top of this forum provided loads of useful info (especially about warming the group.filter/cup) without which I'd have struggled to produce the nice drinks I'm getting (full disclosure - a jumped into producing a shot straight away without any of that stuff and it was disgusting)


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

Interesting to read your perspective as a Silvia owner. As you have a Silvia I assume you have a separate grinder - are you using the built in grinder when brewing on the barista pro? How does the espresso shot quality compare?


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## ImthatGuy (Dec 4, 2015)

HVL87 said:


> Interesting to read your perspective as a Silvia owner. As you have a Silvia I assume you have a separate grinder - are you using the built in grinder when brewing on the barista pro? How does the espresso shot quality compare?


 I have a Sage Smart Grinder Pro - had it for coming up to 5 years (bought just after the Silvia) and it's been very good. I'm currently using the built-in grinder on the Barista Pro as I experiment to find a consistently good setup, so I can't give a useful comparison yet. I'd also have to set up the Smart Grinder differently to handle the smaller Sage portafilter.

I can say that getting a sufficiently large dose into the Sage portafilter is much more of a challenge than with the (58mm) Silvia. I'm having to work quite hard to get any more than 16-17g into the basket, and that's affecting the shots. When new beans arrive (day or two), I'll be able to get a better picture.

I'll be keeping the separate grinder for non-espresso grinds in any case


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

ImthatGuy said:


> I have a Sage Smart Grinder Pro - had it for coming up to 5 years (bought just after the Silvia) and it's been very good. I'm currently using the built-in grinder on the Barista Pro as I experiment to find a consistently good setup, so I can't give a useful comparison yet. I'd also have to set up the Smart Grinder differently to handle the smaller Sage portafilter.
> 
> I can say that getting a sufficiently large dose into the Sage portafilter is much more of a challenge than with the (58mm) Silvia. I'm having to work quite hard to get any more than 16-17g into the basket, and that's affecting the shots. When new beans arrive (day or two), I'll be able to get a better picture.
> 
> I'll be keeping the separate grinder for non-espresso grinds in any case


 I also own a barista pro - it may take a while for the grinder to produce a more consistent grind although shouldn't be too difficult to dose 19-20g if the grind is fine enough.

I usually run the grinder into the portafilter for 10 seconds or so, tap the portafilter on a mat to distribute and then grind the remaining dose up to 19-20g. I also use a distribution tool to level.

I'm now experimenting with wdt and possibly grinding into a cup first as the grinder does produce quite a clumpy grind, as you may know from the smart grinder pro.


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## ImthatGuy (Dec 4, 2015)

HVL87 said:


> I also own a barista pro - it may take a while for the grinder to produce a more consistent grind although shouldn't be too difficult to dose 19-20g if the grind is fine enough.
> 
> I usually run the grinder into the portafilter for 10 seconds or so, tap the portafilter on a mat to distribute and then grind the remaining dose up to 19-20g. I also use a distribution tool to level.
> 
> I'm now experimenting with wdt and possibly grinding into a cup first as the grinder does produce quite a clumpy grind, as you may know from the smart grinder pro.


 Thanks for the tips. I have a portafilter funnel on the way, which Im hoping will help with the volume. I may need to adjust the grinder burr to get a finer grind, but I'm waiting until I have some fresher beans before I go that way


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

ImthatGuy said:


> Thanks for the tips. I have a portafilter funnel on the way, which Im hoping will help with the volume. I may need to adjust the grinder burr to get a finer grind, but I'm waiting until I have some fresher beans before I go that way


 I've also ordered a portafilter funnel to help with the wdt process, if I choose to continue with that method.

Makes sense regarding waiting for fresher beans. I guess it will also take time to get used to the narrower but deeper sage basket. I've had to adjust the upper burr on a barista express before but having used a few barista pros the grinders have been a bit more consistent across machines as far as calibration is concerned, with the default setting usually being sufficient. Although that may have changed.

If you are struggling like I was to get perfect microfoam with the barista pro (you might not be coming from a Silvia) I have found the below video to be invaluable to find the right angle with the 4 hole tip:






Let us know how you get on with fresh beans.


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## Alex.Spamps (Jul 27, 2013)

I was just having a look through the forums and was shocked to see the above video @HVL87 glad you found it useful! There are two little hacks you can use for fitting a larger volume of grind into the basket.

1) grind half light tamp and grind the rest. This isn't ideal but does give you the ability to fit up to 19g in the basket

2) give the handle a shimey while it's grinding, this will level off the grinds and allow a more even fill of the basket.

3) be sure to be using a fresh, quality, medium-medium dark roast this will make a world of difference!


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

Alex.Spamps said:


> I was just having a look through the forums and was shocked to see the above video @HVL87 glad you found it useful! There are two little hacks you can use for fitting a larger volume of grind into the basket.
> 
> 1) grind half light tamp and grind the rest. This isn't ideal but does give you the ability to fit up to 19g in the basket
> 
> ...


 Good to see you on the forum! The video was certainly useful at demonstrating where to place the steam wand, using the barista pro specifically. It behaves quite differently to the express with more steam holes.

It seems like the pro is very capable of producing good microfoam for latte art given the right technique, something I am hoping to demonstrate to @TomHughes soon in a video as he's not so convinced 😄

@ImthatGuy how are you getting on with the pro?


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## Alex.Spamps (Jul 27, 2013)

It's absolutely do able! The two tricks are purge the steam wand in advance, and wait about 2 seconds after steaming before you remove the wand. Failing to do either of these can cause big chunky bubbles, and big bubbles are bad!

Also the drink prep order makes the biggest difference, do your shot first and your milk second, I know it's not ideal but it keeps your milk from separating or going to thick.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

HVL87 said:


> Good to see you on the forum! The video was certainly useful at demonstrating where to place the steam wand, using the barista pro specifically. It behaves quite differently to the express with more steam holes.
> 
> It seems like the pro is very capable of producing good microfoam for latte art given the right technique, something I am hoping to demonstrate to @TomHughes soon in a video as he's not so convinced 😄
> 
> @ImthatGuy how are you getting on with the pro?


 Haha, yeh you can get ok microfoam with the pro, just annoying that the steam is so wet it waters it down. The difference in microfoam quality with the Pavoni is remarkable. 
I think it was probably more pronounced as we use jersey milk, which is so creamy I didn't want to lose that texture.


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## ImthatGuy (Dec 4, 2015)

HVL87 said:


> @ImthatGuy how are you getting on with the pro?


 Short answer - not bad, but not perfect.

I'm now on fresher beans so off the pressurised portafilter (more on beans below). I think I've just about got the Pro dialled in, but it's taken a long time. It seems to be a lot more sensitive to grind size and amount, and tamper pressure, than the Silvia. It might be that I'm being more careful, of course.

Issues I've had to deal with:

1. I need a portafilter funnel to get the recommended 19-122g into the basket without losing a lot over the side. I haven't tried the grind-half-shake-down-grind-the-rest technique yet - maybe that'll work as well. (For those interested the funnel I got was this one - works well and inexpensive.

2. I've really struggled with the tamp. In the end, I bough a distribution tool (this one). This, together with the funnel and a relatively light tamp, seems to work consistently.

3. I had to customise the pre-infusion (would not move above 6 seconds, whatever grind size or weight I used) and the pour time to get a good balance - I used scales to target a 2-1 ratio. I imagine I'll have to tweak each time a switch beans.

I haven't tried any single dose - I'm the only coffee drinker in the house, so I can just stick with double doses.

I'm still working on steaming. It's coming along OK. I feel as if the Sage jug is too large for the amount of milk I use, so I'm swapping between it and a smaller jug I already had to see which is most consistent.

I always use skimmed milk, so I'm making life harder for myself. I can get a reasonable micro-foam - I just need to keep practising.

Overall, the Sage seems much more finicky than the Silvia - but that might just be because the Silvia had so little to adjust that I'd got into a comfortable rut.

On beans:

- Modern Standard Momentum Espresso - roasted 25/09. Could not get them dialled in - always sour. Whether that's me or the beans, I don't know. I'll try them agin some time.

- James Gourmet Coffee Formula 6 - roasted 19/10, so fresh as fresh could be. Closer to what I wanted, but inconsistent extraction. Probably down to me.

- Union Revelation - roasted 1/10. The most successful so far, but that might be because I'm getting the hang of the Sage.

Part of the problem is that my taste in coffee is old-fashioned (darker roasts, more bitter than sweet) and roasting styles have moved away from that.

Sorry for the long post.


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## Alex.Spamps (Jul 27, 2013)

ImthatGuy said:


> Short answer - not bad, but not perfect.
> 
> I'm now on fresher beans so off the pressurised portafilter (more on beans below). I think I've just about got the Pro dialled in, but it's taken a long time. It seems to be a lot more sensitive to grind size and amount, and tamper pressure, than the Silvia. It might be that I'm being more careful, of course.
> 
> ...


 That's a quality long post! You've certainly been thorough in your drink prep which is fantastic! It seems like everything that you're doing is spot on. My only other recommendation would be to recalibrate the grinder itself, that is of course if you're still having a hard time getting a quality shot. It's an easy process and makes a massive difference to the overall "ease" of pulling quality shots. Skimmed milk will certainly make things tricky for you but "practice makes better".


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