# DSOL coffee circle barnraiser blend



## coffeechap

Ok folks new thread for the new offering from James at coffee circle, this time we know what it is, the barn raiser blend that Glen put in his top 5 espressos of the year, so really looking forward to these beans.

You will receive your beans in 1kg bags as this is a very kind replacement from James and we are keeping the cost down for him as much as possible. The cost of delivery will be absorbed by the subscriptions.

I have a couple of kilos available in 500g batches for guests @ £13 delivered so four batches first come first served.

Many thanks to James again at coffee circle, this is a very kind gesture and one that deserves as much ate potion to the feedback as possible, beans have been roasted and will be on doorsteps on Wednesday having had 7 days of rest.

Enjoy everyone...


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## Glenn

I'm looking forward to trying this blend, which hopefully will be on the bar at Coffee Fix when I visit this weekend...


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## Xpenno

Can't wait for these, Glenn's top 5, high praise indeed!

Thanks so much for sorting this out and thanks to James for giving us another batch.


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## jonners

My beans arrived this morning.

Thanks to James, Dave and Ron.


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## ronsil

I picked up mine on Monday.

Get your first impressions down as soon as poss.

I know James is awaiting initial reactions.


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## jonners

First shot with the new beans was very promising - nutty chocolate, plentiful crema - even though I ground too fine and it took well over 30sec for 27g out from 16g in. No more espressos tonight, look forward to more tomorrow.


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## Xpenno

Got mine this evening. Only one shot in but it was a little slow, initial impressions are great!

18g in - 25g out in 30 seconds @ 94deg

There is much more going on here than in the previous batch. There are a load of nuts upfront and a little berry/citrus kick at the end. Tastes gets even better as it cools and there is a great lingering after taste of the initial nutty flavour. Will try and get a shot in first thing tomorrow and see if I can improve the ratios... must try harder!









Thanks for sorting this out guys, really looking forward to this bag!

Spence


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## bignorry

got my beans today and poured a couple of lovely coffees. Will weigh and measure tomorrow, but initial shots very promising, rich nutty taste and producing a nice thick crema. Night and day from last month.

thanks again James


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## Mrboots2u

Got mine, struggled to get dialled in and got no tastes yet. No choc etc. Certainly looks darker than last time, and grind considerably backed off from the last lot .


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## Mrboots2u

Still slackening off the grind this morning , pour looked a lot better than previous , didn't have time to weigh the output . Seems to be blonding early for me still . I'm not getting any choc tastes. Honesty being the best policy , I'm still undecided on this, as to whether it's my technique or the blend I don't like .

Will be pulling a few drinks tonight in anticipation of the latte of so , ill either have got to grips with it ,or decided it's not for me by then .


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## urbanbumpkin

I'm finishing off my existing beans and will then start on these at the weekend.


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## coffeechap

Just a reminder I have 3 spare kilos of this for guest if they want, cost is £13 per 500g delivered....


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## Mrboots2u

Very quiet on here.


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## Yes Row

Mrboots2u said:


> Very quiet on here.


Using up what I have and should crack these open on Saturday. Looking forward to it


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## Charliej

Won't be opening my 1st bag until tomorrow, hopefully my neck won't be hurting so much then.


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## MarkyP

I'm waiting for the londinium lube to arrive before I turn my machine on again!


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## 4085

I am going to give them a bit longer as I am snowed under with coffee at the moment!


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## Daren

MarkyP said:


> I'm waiting for the londinium lube to arrive before I turn my machine on again!


I must refrain from making obvious Lever Love joke...


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## MarkyP

Lubrication always helps!


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## Daren

MarkyP said:


> Lubrication always helps!


Especially when your trying to turn her on!


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## garydyke1

Sounds a little more promising than the first batch


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## jonners

I'm drinking a very tasty long black at the moment. Definitely better than the last batch, and a I'm finding it a lot easier to get repeatable results with the new beans.


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## 4085

Just pulled 4 shots off. despite all the parameters being correct, taste wise as espresso I did not enjoy it. Will try it in milk later on and change grinders etc to see if that makes a difference


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## garydyke1

What didnt you like? Not sweet enough? Too bitter? Too tangy? Mouthfeel? What 'normal' parameters ? Have you tried differing extraction ratios?


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## coffeechap

Enjoy these folks I will get started once I get back


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## 4085

garydyke1 said:


> What didnt you like? Not sweet enough? Too bitter? Too tangy? Mouthfeel? What 'normal' parameters ? Have you tried differing extraction ratios?


Gary, I am trying to do the bean justice. By that I mean, I get so much in a month and the spirit of this event is to put it though its paces, I do not even count it in my months coffee habit as I am quite happy to waste it by playing around.

I experiment until I get the right grind to give me the right pour. I drink short everything, so never ever pull longer than 20 seconds and extract 30 mls maximum, so it is a different ball game to you. I am currently using a 15 gm VsT dosing at approximately 14.5 gms.

I have just made an espresso, single shot, 3 ounces milk. Bland until I reached the microfoam at the end, and the only taste I could identify then, was cigarette ash or something similar and I am in a house of non smokers.

I am quite happy to plod on with these and accept that others may be pulling great shots, but I suspect it is a personal thing. I would be interested to know if this roast ranks alongside Glenn's experience with the bean. It is still early days though as they are only 7 days old


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## garydyke1

Sure. This blend might suit a differing output ratio?. The only decent 20 seconds shots Ive had have been rapid extractions pulling through say >40g from 20, more like the 'coffee shots' we hear are all the rage now. Granted your lever machine is a different ball game


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## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Sounds a little more promising than the first batch


Much better, still dialling in but feel free to head over for a brew if you like?

Spence


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## Glenn

dfk41 said:


> I would be interested to know if this roast ranks alongside Glenn's experience with the bean.


I don't have any of this bean for reference, so I could not comment.

Although I enjoyed my visit to Coffee Fix on Saturday where the blend was on the bar

I was getting chocolate, nutty notes and a hint of spice

The drinks I had were both Piccolos


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## ronsil

It sure is quiet on here regarding these beans.

I've been holding back waiting for someone to say something but i've had mine since Monday & have had time to consider.

Right then - 18 grams in 25 grams out at 93C for 27 seconds including 3 seconds pre-infusion. This produced a short espresso but very tasty. Good lingering aftertaste.

As a cappa it cuts through the milk (not too much milk) & produces a well rounded drink. Nuts defo to the fore with a rich caramel background & some chocolate tones. Good mouthfeel & excellent after taste.

This Bean is very good, not the best I've ever tasted but in the running along with the best of the roasted beans I have purchased. Would be very happy to buy again.


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## coffeechap

I would if they arrived on time to start them!!!


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## coffeechap

Glenn said:


> I don't have any of this bean for reference, so I could not comment.
> 
> Although I enjoyed my visit to Coffee Fix on Saturday where the blend was on the bar
> 
> I was getting chocolate, nutty notes and a hint of spice
> 
> The drinks I had were both Piccolos


Will get some to you Glenn to try


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## 4085

Well, following a chat with Dave, I thought it only right to try this bean in the K10. SO, I chucked out a couple of shots of Londinium Kenyan, and set it up. Only took two wasted shots to get a nice 22 second pour. Once again, the aroma was bland with nothing coming through. No identifiable taste but what was there was not pleasant. I then made a cappa which was absolutely tasteless, followed by another espresso. Two of us agreed that it was not nice. We could not identify any individual components that usually go with a beans description, making me wonder if my palate (and my sons) have been caught on an off day, or, if this bean is as bad as the last version.

I would never knock another persons roasting. it might be quite nice for some people, but unfortunately, does not suit me


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## urbanbumpkin

Started the beans today.

Still getting dialled in, the 3rd shot this evening was 18g in 27.5 out in 30 secs.

Early doors yet. Slight dark choc taste, bitter stronger than the choc though. Fruit and almond on the aftertaste mixed in with loads of other stuff I can't pick out

Not sure if it's just the fact that I've let the shot run a bit longer than I would do but the "bitter bit" seemed to dominate more than anything else.

Shot was a bit messy, will try going coarser and tamp harder to see if it improves.

Anyone tried higher doses or better results from the ball park 1.6 ratio in 25-30 secs?


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## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> Well, following a chat with Dave, I thought it only right to try this bean in the K10. SO, I chucked out a couple of shots of Londinium Kenyan, and set it up. Only took two wasted shots to get a nice 22 second pour. Once again, the aroma was bland with nothing coming through. No identifiable taste but what was there was not pleasant. I then made a cappa which was absolutely tasteless, followed by another espresso. Two of us agreed that it was not nice. We could not identify any individual components that usually go with a beans description, making me wonder if my palate (and my sons) have been caught on an off day, or, if this bean is as bad as the last version.
> 
> I would never knock another persons roasting. it might be quite nice for some people, but unfortunately, does not suit me


Along the same lines pulled 6-8 shots of this today , tried 14 in 16 vst and 16 in 18 vst, so far getting an ill defined taste that disagrees with me. By this I mean neither bitter or sour, just not to my liking. This is both in milk and espresso. I just can't place any taste profiles I like. Again this may be downtown my skill and palate.

Am open to trying some more , and will do so tomorrow . If anyone with an l1 feels they have a recipe for this that's works well then I'd love to try it.


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## urbanbumpkin

Have pulled a couple more shots this morning.

18g in 25.5 out 30 secs

18g in 27.5g out in 25 secs

The latter seemed the better of the two. Not getting the stronger bitterness that I did yesterday (think that was just me).

The initial taste is smoke I think but it's colliding with a load of other stuff. Mouthfeel / texture seems good on the second shot but I don't think I've got it dialled in right yet.

How's everyone else getting on?


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## coffeechap

Come on folks get down your thoughts on this so we can work through some options


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## ronsil

urbanbumpkin said:


> 18g in 25.5 out 30 secs 18g in 27.5g out in 25 secs


Your quantities are not too dissimilar to my result as in my earlier post.

The tastes I stated are certainly there. As always they suit your palette or they do not.

With this particular Blend I think machine differences are playing their part in the perception of taste.

This exact Blend has been used at Coffeefix for the past 9/10 days. The result is very good. See Glenn's post regarding his visit last weekend.

For sure different beans are more suited to certain equipment & I think this is a case in point. The Londinium DSOL was not for me or my ways of preparation but on the other hand it suited others in particular those with lever machines.

However if you are prepared to persevere & adjust your methods (recipe if you like) you should achieve a reasonably acceptable result. If you do a set method of preparation & expect a bean to fit you may not always be so fortunate.

Whatever, its making for interesting comparisons & I for one am enjoying the journey


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## 4085

Ron, do you think they have roasted this bean darker than their usual offering, and if so, might that be responsible? I pulled one shot thi morning. Had the faintest hint of chocolate in smell but not in taste. that is better than yesterday


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## Yes Row

3 shots this morning

1st for the sink and then with maybe some fluke dialled in and got

19.5g in 31g out in 40s!

Sour initial taste and faded to dark choc ( bitter choc)

Ok not great, but long extraction

Then

19g in 29.5 out in 28s 1st pour at 7 secs. It produced great leoparding and had a slight sour taste really getting the top back of the cheeks but this faded to bitter choc. Not massive flavour but not unpleasant. Both shots similar but the second being noticeably nicer

Then made my wife a flat white, she said it was lovely, I had an long black (7oz) I am afraid, quite watery no depth of flavour

In summary, so far, not memorable but ok

Had enough caffeine now, will try again tomorrow. I am sure I can produce better shots from this bean and I hope I am rewarded with better taste


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## Xpenno

I'm finding the bean hard work but I'm still learning with regards to how to make great espresso.

In a straight up espresso I'm getting a nuts, then a big bitter hit. Following that the after taste lasts for quite a while and tastes of nuts/chocolate. So far I've found that this bean works very well in a long espresso (at least I think that's what it's called). I third fill a coffee mug with water and then pour the espresso straight in and using this method I get the good flavours and the bitterness seems to disappear. The Mrs said that this mornings attempt was the best coffee she's had.

I'll keep experimenting and let you know how I get on.

Spence


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## 4085

tried an 18 gm VST and upped the dose to 15.5. gms. You have to remember, on an Lever you are restricted to the amount of water that goes into the group head, so you cannot go above 15.5 gms and get any sort of result. The espresso had a slight chocolate taste again with nothing else to note. In a cappuccino, a blind test would not identify a coffee flavour at all. the nearest I could get to it with my son, was akin to one of those malt based drink mixes you get in a jar. I will persevere though as if others can do it.......what do the other lever monkeys make of it then?


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## ronsil

dfk41 said:


> do you think they have roasted this bean darker than their usual offering, and if so, might that be responsible?


Its a difficult question to answer. The whole conception of this roast was to produce something darker for us.

Our order would be too much to roast in one go. There may be a slight discrepancy between roasts. They are very experienced roasters & I would think they have that covered.


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## 4085

That is fair Ron, but, the point I am making is if yout ake a recipe for a cake that you make regularly, and then someone comes along and says, thats nice, but make it darker. there must be a fair chance that by extending the roast time or temperature, then the end result MUST be different. I am not talking about the difference between individual roast, but the new profile used for us DSOl people compared to the origial formula. Unless my memory s wrong, these beans are a fair bit darken than the last offering.


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## ronsil

True what you say but this batch contained two new beans that were not in the first go. So really a horse of a different colour.


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## Xpenno

Ok, I dropped the temp on my machine down to 92deg and swapped my basket over (I'll post some pics of the differences later) and it's changed things greatly and for the better! The new basket has a larger, flatter bottom with more numerous, bigger holes. I think it's probably a triple basket as 18g looks dwarfed inside it! So I've had to tighten the grind a fair few notches on the Royal to counteract this. Well, the change is taste is astonishing!

I'll pour some more shots later as I've had far too much this am but I don't know if my previous basket was adding false pressure to the extraction because of the smaller, less numerous holes and this meant I had to grind less fine to get a good ratio on the pour.

This afternoon/evening I'm going to do two things, calibrate my PID and order a couple of VST baskets









Things are on the up for both this bean and my coffee making in general!

Spence


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## coffeechap

I was under the impression that this combo is as per the barnraiser that Glenn speaks so highly of so not sure what is going on here. I won't be able to dig in until I get back on Friday, would have been gray to have brought a kolo over with me to Italy but alas it was not meant to be.


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## ronsil

The Barnraiser on the counter at Coffeefix for the past 7/10 days is exactly the same as sent out to us.

It was on this Blend that Glenn made his favourable comments last weekend. I picked up my beans on the Monday. Whilst there I enjoyed a cappa & reproduced the same when I got home. All the DSOL beans were about to be sent out at that time.

I know that Barnraiser does contain different beans from time to time but always with the same taste objective in mind.


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## urbanbumpkin

Xpenno said:


> Ok, I dropped the temp on my machine down to 92deg and swapped my basket over (I'll post some pics of the differences later) and it's changed things greatly and for the better! The new basket has a larger, flatter bottom with more numerous, bigger holes. I think it's probably a triple basket as 18g looks dwarfed inside it! So I've had to tighten the grind a fair few notches on the Royal to counteract this. Well, the change is taste is astonishing!
> 
> I'll pour some more shots later as I've had far too much this am but I don't know if my previous basket was adding false pressure to the extraction because of the smaller, less numerous holes and this meant I had to grind less fine to get a good ratio on the pour.
> 
> This afternoon/evening I'm going to do two things, calibrate my PID and order a couple of VST baskets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Things are on the up for both this bean and my coffee making in general!
> 
> Spence


Thanks Spence, I might try 19g in a 20g VST


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## Spukey

Can someone not ask coffeefix what their brew ratios are? I have found this bean alot better than the last and i am getting some nuts/choc notes but they are too faint to enjoy properly. Its just ok


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## urbanbumpkin

I'm in agreement with Spukey at the moment on the beans. Would be good to get some pointers from the roaster if possible.


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## Daren

Me to. I have to agree with Spooky.

I've tried 15g in a 15g vst - output 22g in 27secs. It was not for me as an espresso and couldn't really cut it in milk.

18g in - 27 out in 27secs was nicer - but again I couldn't drink it as espresso. It was just OK in milk for me.

It's certainly nicer than the last DSOL bean and I will use them all (unlike last time). I've just got to find that winning formula. I'll keep trying.


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## coffeechap

Ok folks some of the suggestions of you guys is right on the money I received an email from the roaster and thought it might help if a share it.....

"As per questions on forum, the blend is the same as has been enjoyed by Glenn as a sample bag, but for this batch for DSoL, I pushed on 12 secs/ 2 degrees and dropping with first cracks of second. It was the same roast batch Ron and Glenn had at Coffee Fix, but was darker than the sample Id sent Glenn.

40 Brazil Pantano pulped natural bourbon

40 El Sal Bosque Lya washed bourbon

20 Rwanda Shara washed bourbon

As I said, the roast was left another 12 seconds/ 3 degrees before dropping, with first few cracks of second in the cooling tray. When cupped, there was less acidity than normal, but fuller mouthcoating body. The chocolate and caramel qualities were there in enhanced texture and mouthfeel, although this will have lost an element of demerara flavour and berry acidity. There was more roast in the cup than I would normally go for, but my understanding was to provide a darker bean, thus I pushed slightly past the normal medium roast I take Barnraiser to."


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## ronsil

Tomorrow, Monday, I will be making my usual weekly visit to Coffeefix.

I will find out the ratios they are using for their machine. I will do a post from there with the info.


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## CamV6

well I'm a very happy bunny in all this. maybe I just have poor undiscerning palate but I am really enjoying this latest version of the blend and I liked the first version too.

The first one needed the finer grind of the two (same as I use for londinium decaf) and was not chocolaty with fruitier notes and a bit of citrus and slightly buttery taste but not too acidic for it. I found 16g in a 15g VST basket using a lighter tamp of the espro 58mm calibrated convex tamp got good results.

This second version is darker for sure, and you can see that in the richer colour of the crema. It has chocolatier and sweeter notes and is really good in short milk drinks. It wants to be two notches coarser on the RR55 and I am getting a slightly short double shot with 15g of grinds in a 15g VST basket, using a flat base 58.35mm reg barber base on a kinetic handle set to a stronger tamp than the espro.

This second offering is definitely changing as the days pass. I starter with this offering yesterday and its definitely a little smoother today.

I kept 500g out and put 500g in two 250 sealed bags in the freezer. I have another 500g of the 1st blend in the freezer also so will maybe do a side by side comparison at some point on the future if the Mrs gives me 2 minutes peace ever.

Must be said, I much prefer the second batch to the second. Don't get me wrong. I like both for different reasons but the second I would buy again.The first, I don't think I would now I have had the second but am happy to have it in my store and to drink it. I loved it when I first got it but once it fully settled it wasn't as lovable but still good.

I can see why this second version would be in a person's top 5 of the year, and as I say it is really good in a short milk drink like a macciato


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## Gangstarrrrr

I had a very interesting shot this morning. 21g in and around 23g out. Lots of sharp, not unpleasant flavour.


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## urbanbumpkin

CamV6 said:


> well I'm a very happy bunny in all this. maybe I just have poor undiscerning palate but I am really enjoying this latest version of the blend and I liked the first version too.
> 
> The first one needed the finer grind of the two (same as I use for londinium decaf) and was not chocolaty with fruitier notes and a bit of citrus and slightly buttery taste but not too acidic for it. I found 16g in a 15g VST basket using a lighter tamp of the espro 58mm calibrated convex tamp got good results.
> 
> This second version is darker for sure, and you can see that in the richer colour of the crema. It has chocolatier and sweeter notes and is really good in short milk drinks. It wants to be two notches coarser on the RR55 and I am getting a slightly short double shot with 15g of grinds in a 15g VST basket, using a flat base 58.35mm reg barber base on a kinetic handle set to a stronger tamp than the espro.
> 
> This second offering is definitely changing as the days pass. I starter with this offering yesterday and its definitely a little smoother today.
> 
> I kept 500g out and put 500g in two 250 sealed bags in the freezer. I have another 500g of the 1st blend in the freezer also so will maybe do a side by side comparison at some point on the future if the Mrs gives me 2 minutes peace ever.
> 
> Must be said, I much prefer the second batch to the second. Don't get me wrong. I like both for different reasons but the second I would buy again.The first, I don't think I would now I have had the second but am happy to have it in my store and to drink it. I loved it when I first got it but once it fully settled it wasn't as lovable but still good.
> 
> I can see why this second version would be in a person's top 5 of the year, and as I say it is really good in a short milk drink like a macciato


Thanks Cam. How long are you letting the shot run for in secs and output?


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## CamV6

28 seconds, sometimes a second or three longer

ooh, I forgot to say, the second batch also passes my (I say vital) sugar test. i.e. sugar lingers/sits on the crema for a second or so before its weight takes it through to the dark abyss beneath


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## urbanbumpkin

Thanks Cam.

I generally pull shots on 25 secs. Looking back, the shots where I was getting more of a choc taste were the longer ones at 30 secs at about 25g output.


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## Mrboots2u

CamV6 said:


> 28 seconds, sometimes a second or three longer
> 
> ooh, I forgot to say, the second batch also passes my (I say vital) sugar test. i.e. sugar lingers/sits on the crema for a second or so before its weight takes it through to the dark abyss beneath


May I ask Are you drinking it with sugar as a matter of course ? Or just this particular espresso ?


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## jonners

urbanbumpkin said:


> Thanks Cam.
> 
> I generally pull shots on 25 secs. Looking back, the shots where I was getting more of a choc taste were the longer ones at 30 secs at about 25g output.


I agree. Shots over 30 secs on my Cremina give more choc/nuts taste, 16g in 26g or so out.


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## coffeechap

Oh just drop the Cremina in from out of nowhere let's see a photo or two.


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## Mrboots2u

jonners said:


> I agree. Shots over 30 secs on my Cremina give more choc/nuts taste, 16g in 26g or so out.


Yes rather nonchalant there , is it shiny and red by any chance ?


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## Daren

Mrboots2u said:


> Yes rather nonchalant there , is it shiny and red by any chance ?


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## Mrboots2u

Happy with my machine thanks Daren.......


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## jonners

coffeechap said:


> Oh just drop the Cremina in from out of nowhere let's see a photo or two.


Ah.... I announced its arrival a while ago here:#355

Since then I have stripped it down, replaced most of the seals and sprayed the case - not red, but black. The restoration was fairly straightforward thanks to the OE videos. There was a leak from the sight glass and a load of scale crusted round the element, but no real problems. I'll post a pic in its restored state sometime.


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## jonners

Mrboots2u said:


> Yes rather nonchalant there , is it shiny and red by any chance ?


My reply has been detained for moderation for some reason, so I'll try again without the link: It's shiny but not red, and I posted a pic of it when it arrived and before I restored it: Page 36 of the "What did the Postie bring" thread ,post no. 355. Will post a pic in its shiny and black state soon!


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## coffeechap

Perfect and congrats on a great machine.


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## urbanbumpkin

I tried swapping for the 20g VST with a 19g dose this morning.

First shot 19g in, 35g out in 30 secs.

Second 19g in, 25.5 out in 28 secs (panicked on the volume).

I tamped both shots much harder than previously.

Both significantly better tasting shots than I've previously got. Stronger choc and fruits.

So have these improved from using a bigger basket or from letting the shot run longer?


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## ronsil

My thoughts would be 'the larger basket...


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## coffeechap

It may be similar to the first lot as they were better longer, so no reason why these would not be similar, the shot parameters on the second one are not high at all.


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## ronsil

OK folks - here we go, straight from the 'horses mouth', Coffeefix at Gatley

19 grams in 28.5 grams out at 93C for 27 seconds incl 3 secs pre-infusion.

Well enjoyed my Cappa this morning. Same Beans (blend) as this months DSOL.

Finished off with an espresso - excellent!


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## urbanbumpkin

19g in, 32 out in 32 secs. Much stronger choc, nuts and fruit. Slight hint of bitterness but not over powering


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## ronsil

urbanbumpkin said:


> Slight hint of bitterness but not over powering


Perhaps try it a little cooler temp if possible, may remove any bitter taste.


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## coffeechap

Will be interesting to see what results I pull out of this, as I really don't believe it has anything to do with lever machines not being able to extract a good shot from it.


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## Mrboots2u

Today is Barnraiser day ,gonna up dose ,down dose , put my left leg in and my left leg out . I refuse to shake it all about tho .....

Seriously gonna play with some bigger doses , longer preinfsuion and bigger ratios , and see what happens .

Ill report back later ....


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## garydyke1

Anyone fancy lobbing me a 250g for analysis, I got sent the previous 'duff' batch & wouldnt mind comparing?!


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## coffeechap

I will be sending you some when I get back as there are 5 kilos at my house, hopefully


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## Xpenno

19g at 93deg. Out of three shots one was fantastic, loads of choc and nuts with a great citrus kick at the end, no bitters at all. The other two were better than previous attempts but with slightly more bitterness, probably due to my technique more than the bean. Certainly a good step forward but I'm starting to run out if beans now


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## coffeechap

Do you want some more?


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## garydyke1

Sound.







The last lot ended up being 'good for latte art' Laura quite enjoyed the flat whites, but sweet creamy milk improves many 'meh' blends


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## urbanbumpkin

ronsil said:


> Perhaps try it a little cooler temp if possible, may remove any bitter taste.


Thanks for the tip, its a bit tricky controlling the temp with a Classic.


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## coffeechap

I am sure you can improvise


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## garydyke1

urbanbumpkin said:


> Thanks for the tip, its a bit tricky controlling the temp with a Classic.


Use a cold portafilter


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## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Use a cold portafilter


Nice cheat , wish I'd thought if that when I had the silvia


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## garydyke1

We all started with humble classic beginnings , I remember the hours of temperature surfing and frustration .


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## Xpenno

coffeechap said:


> Do you want some more?


Go on then


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## urbanbumpkin

garydyke1 said:


> Use a cold portafilter


Thanks Gary I'll give it a go.


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## coffeechap

Are there anymore takers for this blend in 500gram lots?


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## Mrboots2u

Right today I've tried a plethora of doses and times.

18g in 10 second pre infusions to 14 g in 3 second pre infusions, and in-between . All in VST , using naked PF so i can check the pours aren't channeling . I weighed in and out all of them .

Updosing beyond 18 g doesn't really suit the lever in my opinion. Although i would question why we are having to go to 19-20g doses on a darker bean to pull out any hints of the chocolate nutty flavour.

The bigger doses flattened the taste profile out , which meant as espresso i was getting predominantly nutty flavours, although to my palate i still found this nuttiness overpowering . I don't drink espresso with sugar i hasten to add.

There just something in there , which i taste predominantly in the mid to lower doses ( where the lever in theory starts to pull taste profiles apart ) that i find not to my taste. I can't put my finger on it . Tobacco , ashiness , i don't know . Ive tried short stopping it , playing with the grind. The things that would normally counter this . To no real avail.

In milk i just can't get it to work ( tried 3-4-5 ounce drinks ) , something happens to it and i find it unpleasant .

Id like to stress this is just my opinion and my palate at work.I think its important to put an opinion out , rather than stay quiet, otherwise , there is not point being part of this . At the same time I'm tried to be scientific and constructive when using the coffee.

Ive swapped successfully between 4-5 beans ( Rave , Londinium, Atkinsons ) in the last week or so and feel confident enough in my prep and technique to discount that as driving the taste profile.

Just not for me .

Edited please see Gary suggestion for dose and time which I gave a go with better results.


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## garydyke1

Have you tried a diluted recipe, say 14g in 30g out?


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## coffeechap

Tis perhaps a blend of two halves, if certainly can't please everyone, just wish the roaster had stuck to the tried and tested recipe however won't judge till I have put it through its paces


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## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Have you tried a diluted recipe, say 14g in 30g out?


I couldn't be sure looking at my list of ins and outs so went back now

second try in got it . 14 g in 30 g out in 28 seconds . 3 second pre infusion . Was that kinda what you had in mind Gary ?

Pulled 2 one for espresso , one for milk .

To be fair , this one in milk was better without being spectacular . Nutty without being overpowering , drinkable , but not sure I'd go back to it .

30g of Barnraiser










In milk


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## garydyke1

Was worth a go. Sometimes a longer shot can push past the roast and get more sweetness, perhaps at a loss of some mouthfeel


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## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Was worth a go. Sometimes a longer shot can push past the roast and get more sweetness, perhaps at a loss of some mouthfeel


Yep thanks for the suggestion , I think I was trying a longer shot , but with bigger doses . I've got a bit left so at least can find something palatable for it .


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## coffeechap

I think this needs more rest


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## MarkyP

coffeechap said:


> I think this needs more rest


if it's anything l the last lot then I would agree... The last batch got a lot better with age... 3-4 weeks rest for me and I was getting hints of chocolate and nuts but without any of the nasty stuff!


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## urbanbumpkin

I'm getting better results on the longer extractions / ratios.

18g in, 32g out in 35 secs

18g in 35g out in 30 secs.

Is it the longer extraction or just the bean improving with age?

Great tip regarding trying the cold naked PF to lower the temp. Have tried it a couple of times with this bean an it seems to have taken the bitter edge away with the Classic.


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## Chris_on_caffeine

coffeechap said:


> Tis perhaps a blend of two halves, if certainly can't please everyone, just wish the roaster had stuck to the tried and tested recipe however won't judge till I have put it through its paces


But did you ask him to take it darker? Or is it normally dark?


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## ronsil

We pointed out to James (Roaster) that the initial batch barely met the DSOL criteria.

Personally, whilst its difficult to manage, I have no problems with batch 2.


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## coffeechap

smokeybarn said:


> But did you ask him to take it darker? Or is it normally dark?


I don't wish to disclose what was discussed with the roaster


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## Chris_on_caffeine

coffeechap said:


> I don't wish to disclose what was discussed with the roaster


Oh..... okay.


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## Spukey

I am now enjoying this, choc and some nuts in milk. Sometimes faint caramel i think too. I am using as per the coffee shop, 19 in with 28/29 out in 27ish seconds. Not too kean on this as espresso but really liking this as a flat white. The wife describes it as easy drinking


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## coffeechap

Is that you or the coffee


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## Spukey

Not sure haha


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## Yes Row

Just made a flat white with 20g in 28s and it is great. Maybe not dark choc tasting as I would prefer but good

Came back to this bean after a few days and it seems to have developed into a smoother taste

Working from home and will have espresso later and maybe an americano, hope it has improved (to my taste) in non milk shots


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## Geordie Boy

I'm a bit late to the party on this as I've been away however have tried a few different doses based on the feedback so far.

First off tried a 15g dose (24g out in 27s) and get the bitterness (although not overpowering) and tobacco aftertaste that others have mentioned as an espresso. Having this in a Flat White didn't quite work for me either.

Dosing at 19g (30g out in 30s) gave a much more rounded espresso which had less bitterness and also appeared to remove the tobacco aftertaste and was certainly much more pleasant.

I'm now too wired for the evening so will see what it's like tomorrow, though I'll try and stick to the higher dose.


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## Xpenno

Just got home from work and ran off a few shots, these beans are certainly getting better for me!

Recipe 93deg, 19g In, 27g out in 27 seconds (including a 3 second pre-infusion)

I'm getting a mouth full of flavour, big nuts and chocs up front and some big fruit (red berries) towards the end. There is no bitterness now and the fruit is much more in your face. I'm a happy camper.

Spence


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## Geordie Boy

I couldn't tell if I was picking up berries or sourness with the higher dose (my taste buds are pretty shot for the day). Amazing though what difference a few grams makes


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## Xpenno

I've not been on it today so these were my first shots and it was all good flavours here although I need to practice putting tastes into words









Spence


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## bubbajvegas

Just cracked into these tonight,took a while to get grind summat like,coarsest I've been on the mythos,16g in 26 out,27secs,loads of crema,fantastic tiger striping,bags of body,bitter,smokey,just what I like,didn't pick up any subtleties as I had a big choccy cupcake before so taste was tainted with that,but have high hopes for this been&#8230;nice and dark roast aswell


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## bignorry

Had my best so far this evening. 16 in and pulled it at 22 seconds lovely crema (striped)and a full taste, rich and deep.If it was in a coffee shop I'd be recommending it to everyone.


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## bubbajvegas

Just had my first milky drink,cappa,very nice,cuts through a dream.had tightened grind up so was only 15.4 in the basket but gave me a high ratio of 29g in 25secs,has a great bitter kick that I associate with traditional espresso but it's smooth with no unpleasant bitter aftertaste...love these beans


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## Daren

These are definitely getting better with age. Nice and rich, slight chocolate followed by a hint of bitterness (no fruit). It cut through the milk really well in a 5oz cup.

27 sec pour (inc 3 sec pre) - 18.4g in and 27g out.

I was a little sceptical about these after the last batch and my early experiences with these didn't help, however they have developed into a lovely shot for milk drinks.


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## ronsil

Very happy to note that most folk are now enjoying these beans.

Anyone wishing to try some, Coffeechap still has the Beans available at £13 per 500 grams.

Contact CC to order.


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## urbanbumpkin

Agree with Daren.

I have to say the beans do seem to have improved in the last few days.

Shorter extractions still don't work for me, but am getting good results with 18g in 28g out in 27 secs. Anything below this still isn't to my liking.

The tobacco flavour seems to have diminished dramatically.


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## Geordie Boy

A few days on and I'm really loving these beans. Great as an espresso though even better as a flat white where the red berry flavour shines with a subtleness I really like in a coffee.

Probably my favourite bean in a flat white to date

I'm mostly sticking with 19g into 30g and letting the Strega pump run a bit longer than normal, 8s, before releasing the lever


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## urbanbumpkin

18.5g in 30g out, 30 secs. Completely different bean compared to a week ago or which was different to how it 2 weeks ago.


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## CamV6

Well, i too found these improved over the weekend.

16g in basket 44g out in 28 seconds. Nice sweet (i.e. it didnt actually need sugar) full bodied 'fat' mouthfeel. Chocolatey, dark berries, very slight acidity but still very smooth


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## urbanbumpkin

Had an attempt at pulling shorter this morning.

Tried 18g in 24g out in 27 secs this morning. More mouth feel but I prefer the longer (at least 28g) extractions on this bean.


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## Xpenno

CC dropped off my new VST Basket at the weekend so I've spent some time dialling this back in over the last few days.

In the VST I've dropped the beans in to 18g and the pour is around 28g in 30 seconds inc 3 second pre-infusion.

Things are tasting good here still, maybe a little hint of sour coming in now but it could be just as I get used to the VST.


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## Charliej

Well tomorrow is the day when I finally crack mine open. Should have been at the weekend but as my mind was elsewhere I forgot it was in a 1kg and grabbed the 1st 250g bag I could see that was in a buff sort of coloured bag which turned out to be Pact's Espresso #2 and very tasty it's been too. Looking forward to the Barnraiser as I'll have the Classic and the Sage DB to use tomorrow which should be fun.


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## urbanbumpkin

18.5g in 28g out in 30secs in an 18vst. Seems to be the winning formula with this bean and the Classic.

I've got fudge and Italian job arriving from Rave so it would be good to compare them to this.


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## Charliej

Sounds a perfect recipe to try there then Clive. Anyone with a PID machine non-Classic preferably got any brewing temperature suggestions for it as well?


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## ronsil

I've been using 93C on the La Spaz.


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## urbanbumpkin

Charliej said:


> Sounds a perfect recipe to try there then Clive. Anyone with a PID machine non-Classic preferably got any brewing temperature suggestions for it as well?


Try the naked portafilter from cold on the Classic. I found I got better results doing this with this bean.


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## Xpenno

93c for me also.


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## Charliej

Thanks guys, guess I'm in for a well caffeineated few days didn't expect a Smart Grinder too so now it's going to have to be shots on both machines from the RR55 and from the Smart Grinder just to compare lol. I guess I may end up heading over to Roberts and Co for some extra beans.


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## GS11

Daren (bless him) dropped round some barnstormer the other day ( I know it's called barnraiser but I have a habit of re-naming things) this helps me out as the last of my jampit has gone and fudge is resting.

Anyway back to the bean. I've not had the wait you guys have had but this is a nice bean. Requires a tighter grind than my previous experience with rave beans. Smells gorgeous in the cup. I'm getting toffee and sweet plum slight acidity but very agreeable. 94c 14g in 22g out in 20sec ish.

Goes very well in a flat white ...will be grinding a little tighter for my second morning cup


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