# Considering a new grinder



## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I'm considering a new grinder, and am leaning towards a Versalab

I still love my Vario but it's time for something new to pair with my Alex Duetto MkIV

Although my Anfim Caimano often spends time on the bench it's a wee bit too big for the space my coffee equipment occupies, so a smaller footprint grinder is a high consideration.

I'm only considering a new grinder as well.

What are you all considering as your next grinders? and what draws you to them?


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Go for the Versalab Glenn. You know you want to! I think it is utterly amazing - especially for the size and I cannot wait for mine to come back from Frank! Ever since I saw it in action at Eric's I knew it was the only grinder that I wanted!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Glenn what cash you got to spend ..versalab plus frank ain't cheap ....

Small footprint doesn't leave you a huge amount of options

Hg1 or that too slow ?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Prefer electric

Budget not fixed, but Versalab at top end

Mods not required initially

Doesn't need to look blingy - it's mainly for home / training use


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Glenn - my advice FWIW is to go with the Versalab. For home use it will not be beaten.

The 'mods' which turn it into a monument are an unnecessary expense. Mine worked perfectly with home use for 7 years.

Once you have it for a while you can always pay for the mods if you feel you really need them.


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Glenn,

the first choice for me was the Versalab because I love the size. A modified EK43 (low height, Santos base) is also an excellent proposition but it seems impossible to find one that is already modified for sale. The third choice for me would be a Robur but it is a beast and lots of Retention. I have had excellent grounds and coffees from both the EK43 and the Robur I have played with.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Right, who expects me to put a spanner in the works? This is said without showing off, and simply represents my experiences over the last 18 months. My starting point was a Mignon. I have had several and as a starter type grinder they are fine. I then went onto an HG One, which lasted a week. I simply was not willing to put the effort in when my coffee habit often means making 16 to 20 doubles a day. A Mythos came along and I was simply in love. No need to document anything else, but, I would not want to lug it around continually! Next, a K10 fresh. I would go back to one of these as it is the only grinder I have had that really stood out flavour wise. A Mythos came back at the same time and the K10 Fresh for my taste, absolutely thumped it. The Mythos made dark choclatey beans appear almost fruity, whereas the K10 simply clubbed them over the boundary for six. I then got a K8 fresh whilst having the K10 and liked the K8 even more. It did not have the depth of taste the K10 did but the K10 has major retention problems which for the home user has to cause problems.

Next and currently, the Versalab. The problem I have now, is that everyone tells you that it is the boy to have. It is simple, produces an absolutely beautiful mound of coffee, but as yet, it is not doing it for me in the cup. I am telling myself the burrs are not run in yet and when they are, things will be fine.

From a kudos point of view, added to the ease in which you can transport it, it is a winner. there is nothing nicer than turningup at a clients house and having them go wow at the kit you bring out. So, if I was doing what you are doing, then I would buy a Versalab plus a decent Peli Storm case to transport it safely.

Glenn has enough experience to know that a purchase of this size can only be made after having had hands on experience. There is nothing the VErsalab will not do since you can buy the hopper to allow you go down that road.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

charris said:


> Glenn,
> 
> the first choice for me was the Versalab because I love the size. A modified EK43 (low height, Santos base) is also an excellent proposition but it seems impossible to find one that is already modified for sale. The third choice for me would be a Robur but it is a beast and lots of Retention. I have had excellent grounds and coffees from both the EK43 and the Robur I have played with.


Love the Robur. It's fast, it's oh so fluffy, it's delicious in the cup. It's built like a Rolls. I don't think the M3 matches all of these criteria but the EK43 does.

However, it's as big as my son so can't sit next to my machine without blanking out a cupboard, and hunting the perfect grind requires a LOT of coffee. The EK43 wins on the second criterion. The M3 wins on both.

My logic when considering these exact same grinders was:

Whilst others feel differently, I have reservations about M3 power and build quality and I couldn't justify sending my children to school without shoes so I could buy Frank's upgrades.

Whilst the EK is opening an exciting frontier for coffee I am more traditional (Luddite) in my aspirations. And like you I'd want a Santos base so I'd have to buy two grinders to get what I needed.

Once I'd accepted that no 'perfect' grinding solution yet exists (at least in my eyes), then I felt much more relaxed about buying something in the knowledge that I would probably rotate it. So I pursued the flavour I liked best, a deal I felt was keen (and engineering that to my eye is appealing).

I gave myself permission to keep looking whilst I gained a new experience. I'm happy with this path.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Thanks dfk, great writeup

I have had some hands-on time with Versalabs recently, and also most of the grinders you mentioned

Will most certainly be getting more grind time before making a decision

Some I have ruled out to retention issues (K10 Fresh) and others are simply too big for my space

I'm not interested in an EK43

A K8 Fresh is also a consideration, but I'm still leaning towards the Versalab


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I think from a practicality point of view, the M3 has to win. I do not say that because I own one either. Mine is on probation still and not guaranteed a permanent place on the shelf. But, Glenn visits peoples houses with his coffee gear to deliver training. I would not want to lump a big grinder all over the place either. With The M3 and a decent case, he can jump on the Tube with all belongings in one case. No other grinder would let him do that.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Glenn said:


> What are you all considering as your next grinders? and what draws you to them?


A big mazzer and or an HG1 (only when funds permit) so impressed with both of these grinders after the grinder event.

, I am guessing there is validity in the EK but not sure i have the skill or patience to warrant ownership just yet in my coffee journey.

From what I have seen of a k30 I would happily live with one of these, and would probably suit my needs at the moment , but they don't come up very often and I am not sure of its longevity within my coffee journey.

Would love to spend some time with the compak r120 and on reflection wish I had of spent more time with it at the grinder event as this may be a grinder that is being overlooked , not sure how it would work with single dosing , probably extremely fast LOL


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

dfk41 said:


> I think from a practicality point of view, the M3 has to win. I do not say that because I own one either. Mine is on probation still and not guaranteed a permanent place on the shelf. But, Glenn visits peoples houses with his coffee gear to deliver training. I would not want to lump a big grinder all over the place either. With The M3 and a decent case, he can jump on the Tube with all belongings in one case. No other grinder would let him do that.


Seems to me Glenn, that if you wait for long enough, you will replace Mr K here as number five! I get the feeling that he won't be hanging on to his M3 for too long! In my case, you will have to prise it out of my cold, dead hands!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Glenn said:


> I'm not interested in an EK43


Is this based on size/cost or taste?


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> Is this based on size/cost or *taste*?


Yep Glenn has some. [snigger]


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Based on size and taste.

I've had about 20 shots from an EK43 at various places.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Get one of bonday s Roscoe grinders and use that to stick in a box to lug around for training...


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Next and currently, the Versalab. The problem I have now, is that everyone tells you that it is the boy to have. It is simple, produces an absolutely beautiful mound of coffee, but as yet, it is not doing it for me in the cup. I am telling myself the burrs are not run in yet and when they are, things will be fine.


David, are you sure it is the Versalab and not the new Veloce? Or put it in another way do you get the taste you want with the Veloce and another grinder (e.g. your K8)?

Also how long have you had the Versalab, how many kgs through it, isnt seasoning very important?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The Veloce is largely the same as the L1, so I am pretty familiar with what to expect. The M3 is highly regarded for a number of reasons, such as zero retention, single dosing etc. but, at the end of the day the burrs that grind are quite small at 63 mm I think, and I suspect it is the flavour profile that they produce which does nothing for me..

I admire it in all other aspects but, you have to own knee in order to find out! The jury is out still but remembering just how for me, the K10 destroyed the Mythos on depth of flavour, perhaps it is no big surprise.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Probably needs some more grindz thro the m3

Plus without sounding disingenuous this is a fairly standard pattern for mr Kidd and a new grinder


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> The Veloce is largely the same as the L1, so I am pretty familiar with what to expect. The M3 is highly regarded for a number of reasons, such as zero retention, single dosing etc. but, at the end of the day the burrs that grind are quite small at 63 mm I think, and I suspect it is the flavour profile that they produce which does nothing for me..
> 
> I admire it in all other aspects but, you have to own knee in order to find out! The jury is out still but remembering just how for me, the K10 destroyed the Mythos on depth of flavour, perhaps it is no big surprise.


David, it surely needs seasoning and lots of kgs of beans. The Versalab has two sets of burrs: 68mm flat burrs and 68mm (not sure) conical burrs - these are not small burrs in any way and the conicals will need their time to settle in. Actually your beloved K10 also has 68mm conical flat burrs and the massive Mazzer Robur has 71mm burrs. Basically at this level I think only the EK43 and the new huge Compaq R range have bigger than 70mm burrs.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

charris, the conical burrs on the M3 play no part, other than to crush the bean in preparation for the flat burrs to grind. So, the point I was making was that the flat burrs are pretty small when being compared to other flat burred grinders like the K8 at 81 mm. I know the burrs need further seasoning as I have stated that. They will get the chance to bed in properly before I make my mind up!


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

charris said:


> David, it surely needs seasoning and lots of kgs of beans. The Versalab has two sets of burrs: 68mm flat burrs and 68mm (not sure) conical burrs - these are not small burrs in any way and the conicals will need their time to settle in. Actually your beloved K10 also has 68mm conical flat burrs and the massive Mazzer Robur has 71mm burrs. Basically at this level I think only the EK43 and the new huge Compaq R range have bigger than 70mm burrs.


Mazzer Royal and Major have 83mm burrs Mythos has 75mm burrs as does a Cimbali Magnum and a Eureka MDL plus there is a Ceado with 80+ mm burrs too in the line of flat burr grinders and others too that I have missed out.


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Charliej said:


> Mazzer Royal and Major have 83mm burrs Mythos has 75mm burrs as does a Cimbali Magnum and a Eureka MDL plus there is a Ceado with 80+ mm burrs too in the line of flat burr grinders and others too that I have missed out.


Yes, I was just mentioning conicals.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

M3 conical burr is basically a pre breaker-not a full conical burr set and R120 and EK43 are flat burrs anyway, there is Ceado big conical burr grinder, a Brasilia/Rossi with the same 68mm burrs as the K10, there is a set of 83mm conical burrs available for the 3 phase Robur, which I believe is the largest generally available conical burr set and not to forget the Mazzer Kold which uses the same burrs as a Robur.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Can't see Glenn wanting to hump many of those around!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Skateboard ?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I can see the connection. You can grind on a skateboard but I'm not about to start commuting on one


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

If Glenn can teach me how to pour a Rosetta he can have my old Panic UK skateboard for grinder transporting duties!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Glenn said:


> I can see the connection. You can grind on a skateboard but I'm not about to start commuting on one


Make a robur easier to carry ........( or drag )

You need a hover board


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

DavidBondy said:


> Seems to me Glenn, that if you wait for long enough, you will replace Mr K here as number five!


I've got dibs! Contacted him the day he took delivery. Think I could hear Steve Earle 'I ain't ever satisfied' playing in the background


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

R120 would fit nicely in one of those little trailers I've seen people using with bikes, the trouble there is shifting the damn thing on and off.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Or monolith....

It's a shame this doesn't seem like beyond this one or two more will be made, at least to se one anyway ...

http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/monolith-t27175.html


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

For practical size and grinding capability with the ability to single dose the versalab pretty much ticks all your boxes, that said in terms of in the cup ability the versalab is eclipsed by the big conicals and the Ek and r120 possibly the royal and the k8, but all of these except the r120 and ek43 have retention. The versalab is good but not amazing


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Charliej said:


> R120 would fit nicely in one of those little trailers I've seen people using with bikes, the trouble there is shifting the damn thing on and off.


You could rig up the back wheel to the burrs and then no need to unload it - a mobile grinder!!

(A bit like the first car phones were "mobile")


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I was really impressed with the shots from the a Versalab at the forum day at Rave. As others have said there's no perfect grinder. Theres always compromises (retention, size, single dosing, budget etc....)


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## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

coffeechap said:


> For practical size and grinding capability with the ability to single dose the versalab pretty much ticks all your boxes, that said in terms of in the cup ability the versalab is eclipsed by the big conicals and the Ek and r120 possibly the royal and the k8, but all of these except the r120 and ek43 have retention. The versalab is good but not amazing


The versalab is eclipsed by the big conicals?


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## Orangertange (Jul 4, 2013)

just on the big conicals thing,

is there much or in cup difference between the robur and Kony e, being

doing a bit of reading on other forums and it doesn't appear there is, according to some,

anyone tried the two side buy side?


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## Lighty (May 31, 2013)

There's a working windmill about 5 miles from my gaff ....

how big are we going with 'burrs' ???


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Lighty said:


> There's a working windmill about 5 miles from my gaff ....


Next Titan jam at yours then


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Obnic said:


> Next Titan jam at yours then


Hmm artisan stone ground coffee eh?


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