# Microfoam - tell me it’s not my machine



## nightslayer (May 29, 2016)

I struggle to get consistent microfoam, and I struggle even more to get microfoam of the sort of texture one would find in the best coffee places. Don't seem to be able to find a thread discussing the same issues as I have, but please point me in the direction of one should it exist! I am quite able to get microfoam and pour latte art, but I find that it's either too foamy and so my pours are thick and not well defined/foamy:















or too thin with a not great mouthfeel:









In both instances I also generally tend to find that the foam isn't well incorporated. The sort of milk I'm aiming for is somewhere in the middle of the two and well dispersed all the way through to make the whole drink creamy, maybe more similar to this which I achieved on a rare good day (but ideally even finer, since the leaves are still fairly thick) :









and it's the sort of milk where the patterns mark the surface effortlessly, letting you make all these fine intricate patterns (9 layered tulips? Multilayered hearts?) in your drink.

Have moved from a Gaggia classic to a Fracino little gem and am currently using a Fracino cherub. Both the little gem and the cherub have ridiculous steaming power and I had to swap the 1.5mm hole wands to 1mm holes to tame the steam power because I only steam one drink at a time, so I feel like I can't blame my machine, but I cannot for the life of me fathom what more I can change in my technique, having watched a million different steaming videos. I've also occasionally got a decent pour on the gaggia:









so hopefully it's not the machine (and really, how can there be a difference between the steam on a GS3 and a middle of the line prosumer unit)?

I've found Sainsburys organic milk to be the best for steaming thus far between tesco and sains, but again not sure I should be blaming the milk!

Will try uploading a video when I get the time for people to critique.. initially told myself I just needed practice (making a drink a day doesn't give me too many chances to do this!) but it's now been a couple of years and I have still gotten absolutely nowhere.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

nightslayer said:


> find that it's either too foamy and so my pours are thick and not well defined/foamy:


 Looks likely your pouring technique is great, but it might be that you need to work on your technique to get the right milk texture, e.g.: to inject less air and mix it better.


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

nightslayer said:


> but I find that it's either too foamy and so my pours are thick and not well defined/foamy


 Could it be the quantity of milk and the fit to the size of the jug? I usually try to use the smallest amount of milk I can get away with (to minimize leftover), but I find that this hinders the quality of the foam. If I use a bit more milk the foam improves substantially even if I do exactly the same.


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

I'm also trying to perfect milk texture with my ACS Minima and I understand what you are striving for - glossy milk which effortlessly pours and sits on the surface with clean lines.

Many videos use commercial machines and I don't think the technique always translates to domestic machines - for me it depends on boiler size, pressure/temp, number of holes in steam tip, hole diameter, amount of milk, hole direction etc.

I have a 2 and 3 hole tip and about to purchase a 4. They all seem to require a different technique and the direction of the holes on the tip once tightened seems to play a part. For example if the 2 holes are at 12 and 6 o'clock it will steam differently to 3 and 9 o'clock. You can see what direction the tip steams using water as opposed to milk - this will determine where you place the wand in the jug.

Ultimately I don't think you want to hear too much air being introduced too quickly as this will introduce bigger bubbles and require more time to break down into a dense foam. I'm aiming for placement in the jug which gives me a paper tearing sound. If you can get the placement of the steam tip in the jug just right from the start, you can introduce air immediately without having to move the jug down to find your spot. The sooner you introduce enough air the better (without big bubbles) as you can spend the rest of the time incorporating.

Clearly you can pour well and these are just my observations so far!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

It's all steaming technique, this is the best video I have found for getting to grips with it.


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## nightslayer (May 29, 2016)

> 3 hours ago, DavecUK said:
> 
> It's all steaming technique, this is the best video I have found for getting to grips with it.


 This is new since I was last trawling the inter webs for steaming technique - have just tried this and results are actually promising! I agree with @HVL87's post above about wondering if it's number of holes etc but if he can get something he'd be happy with on a Sage machine this is ample evidence the professional machines don't have a monopoly on the space!


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## nightslayer (May 29, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Looks likely your pouring technique is great, but it might be that you need to work on your technique to get the right milk texture, e.g.: to inject less air and mix it better.


 Was well aware of this in theory but it's the practice of mixing/incorporating that I've found difficult indeed..


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

nightslayer said:


> Was well aware of this in theory but it's the practice of mixing/incorporating that I've found difficult indeed..


 I've been doing this for 10 years... Still struggle! 🤣

In a coffee shop however, say, they make 50 or 100 drinks a day, they can up their technique in a matter of days rather than months or years! 🙂


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

@nightslayeri think your latte art looks fantastic... I wish i could pour half as well! One tip i've heard (although it doesn't seem to help me) is to steam in a smaller jug (which you fill to just below the spout) and then transfer to a larger jug before pouring.

I'd suggest you post a video of your whole process; that way people can give you suggestions. In fact i plan to do exactly that at some point!


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

@MediumRoastSteam My son is a good example of what happens to latte art when you pour a hundred a day. He's gone from just as bad as me to expert in a few weeks of working as a pro barista.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

@nightslayer I will be over the moon even if I get a quarter closer!

They look awesome. 😊


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

@DavecUK I watched that video yesterday and have been putting it into practice today. I didn't think i was doing too badly before but using this technique has transformed my milk stretching from so-so to exactly what I've been looking for for years! Many thanks!!


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## nightslayer (May 29, 2016)

Have tried it now - still seem to be over aerating (you can hear the foam as I swirl it at the end)? Thoughts anyone?


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

nightslayer said:


> Have tried it now - still seem to be over aerating (you can hear the foam as I swirl it at the end)? Thoughts anyone?


 You are spending more time introducing air than incorporating it - maybe that's why?


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

nightslayer said:


> Have tried it now - still seem to be over aerating (you can hear the foam as I swirl it at the end)? Thoughts anyone?


 Seemed like a lot of stretching to me, like a 50/50 split in time. I've been introducing air for less and less time recently and have been pleasantly surprised with just how little air you need.

I've started keeping my pitcher in the fridge too (saw sprometheus do it in one of his videos). This keeps everything colder for longer and gives you more time to incorporate the foam. Highly recommend a thermometer so that you can be consistent and stop steaming as late as possible.

I'd add that your pouring technique is clearly excellent, so once you get the milk sorted you'll be laughing. What type of milk are you using?


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## stingray (Aug 4, 2020)

milk jug in the fridge, sometimes I put in the freezer for a short while. I'm no expert and have no interest in latte 'art' but try to keep pressure fairly low and steady when steaming. It IS very tricky, even baristas in good cafes fail.

Liked the video, though how he managed to get decent results from a Sage (product placement alert) defeats me, I never could !


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

I've taken to 'ghost surfing' (i.e. not holding the jug). I put the steam wand in the milk at 7 o'clock (at the surface and near the edge of the jug) and really listen to it. If it's an overly high note (like a fast 'psshpsshpssh') I play with the depth until it's just a chirping/ripping noise (about 3 chirps every 5 seconds). After that, I make sure it's vortexing around. If it stops chirping before 30degC is reached, I add a bit more air and sink the wand when it hits 30deg and keep vortexing until 60degC.

Upon pouring, if it's too thin I know I needed more air before 30, if too thick I know I needed less air - I learn every day and make micro adjustments the next time I steam. I tend to really get it swirling strongly before I concentrate on adding the air (or not). Obviously, 'bloopbloopbloop' noises is way to much air. I find if I get it going 'psshpsshpssh' and leave it (as long as it's swirling) it will then start to chirp after a little while on its own.

Wish I could pour as well as you, though.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Trying to follow videos is where I was going wrong. You have to just do it according to the temp of the milk as described above. In my case when it go to just above room temp I'd stop steaming and start the swirling/mixing (could be tumbling) and then keep going till too hot to touch.


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## Petre (Dec 20, 2021)

nightslayer said:


> I struggle to get consistent microfoam, and I struggle even more to get microfoam of the sort of texture one would find in the best coffee places. Don't seem to be able to find a thread discussing the same issues as I have, but please point me in the direction of one should it exist! I am quite able to get microfoam and pour latte art, but I find that it's either too foamy and so my pours are thick and not well defined/foamy:
> 
> View attachment 61111
> 
> ...


 Those pics look pretty great to me tho!


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## Mikegm (Jan 15, 2021)

I have been using my ECM since around August 2021. Watched loads of videos with reference to Milk texturing & latte art. Have varied timings when 'steamimg' but still not getting a good 'latex' consistency for good latte art. More recently I have started to swirl the milk in jug post steaming to give a good mix prior to pouring. So six months down the road I am still struggling....

Anybody else still struggling??


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## nightslayer (May 29, 2016)

Mikegm said:


> I have been using my ECM since around August 2021. Watched loads of videos with reference to Milk texturing & latte art. Have varied timings when 'steamimg' but still not getting a good 'latex' consistency for good latte art. More recently I have started to swirl the milk in jug post steaming to give a good mix prior to pouring. So six months down the road I am still struggling....
> 
> Anybody else still struggling??


 Lol you're not alone - am still trying to figure this gig out! Currently at a point where I'm wondering if the 4x1mm holes on my steam wand (which I swapped down to in an effort to control the steam power of the 1.2mm tip) are not powerful enough to properly incorporate all the air in the milk, but then I briefly swapped back to the 1.2mm tip and found it completely uncontrollable (complete overaeration or nothing at all) for the ~120ml of milk I'm trying to steam in my 300ml jug!


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## ZwiGGy (Jun 21, 2020)

also struggling on the new bianca i've had for almost a month now. using the 2 hole tip on the default temp setting. I find my steamed milk to be rather thin and not hold its shape for my art, although i wonder if its partly because my beans are over a month old now. will try a new bag tomorrow.

previously used a barista express and found it extremely easy, in fact after stretching the milk i would just rest the pitcher on the drip tray while it incorporated and leave it alone (quite a slow steamer).


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ZwiGGy said:


> also struggling on the new bianca i've had for almost a month now. using the 2 hole tip on the default temp setting. I find my steamed milk to be rather thin and not hold its shape for my art, although i wonder if its partly because my beans are over a month old now. will try a new bag tomorrow.
> 
> previously used a barista express and found it extremely easy, in fact after stretching the milk i would just rest the pitcher on the drip tray while it incorporated and leave it alone (quite a slow steamer).


 If i were a betting man I'd say its you , i think i use the 4 steam tip on mine and i get good milk


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## ZwiGGy (Jun 21, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> If i were a betting man I'd say its you , i think i use the 4 steam tip on mine and i get good milk


 yes most likely unfortunately.

did you increase the default temp also?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ZwiGGy said:


> yes most likely unfortunately.
> 
> did you increase the default temp also?


 Not sure , I'll check when i get home


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## nightslayer (May 29, 2016)

Does anyone know if it is possible to steam single-flat-white quantities of milk in a 12oz pitcher with a 1.2mm 4-tip hole? Is that ever done in proper cafes, or do they always steam in the large pitchers and divide the milk?


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## nightslayer (May 29, 2016)

I understand the LM GS3 uses 4 hole 1.2mm tips so I imagine if the pros are using that it can't be the diameter that is at issue. Nonetheless, as a last hail mary before I conclude I just have to live with overfoamed milk until I git gud or swap back down to the 1mm for subpar foam incorporation, does anyone know how much the angle of the steam wand holes affects microfoaming performance? The steam tip I've got seems to have the holes projecting out at less of an angle and more straight down towards the bottom of the pitcher than the LM tip seems to be.

On a related note, how interchangeable are steam tips across wands from different brands and makers? The Fracino steam tips have female threads.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

nightslayer said:


> Does anyone know if it is possible to steam single-flat-white quantities of milk in a 12oz pitcher with a 1.2mm 4-tip hole? Is that ever done in proper cafes, or do they always steam in the large pitchers and divide the milk?


 I steam one cup at a time , my pitcher is the smaller one 350 ml so 12 oz with a 4 whole steam tip on the Bianca . My local cafe tends to do one drink at a time in small pitchers


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ZwiGGy said:


> yes most likely unfortunately.
> 
> did you increase the default temp also?


 Steam temp I haven't touched, in terms on turns i seem to do about 1,5 rotations ish


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## nightslayer (May 29, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> I steam one cup at a time , my pitcher is the smaller one 350 ml so 12 oz with a 4 whole steam tip on the Bianca . My local cafe tends to do one drink at a time in small pitchers


 Do you know the hole diameter of the steam tip on the bianca? I think the Cherub has actually got 1.5mm holes - I can get a ferocious whirlpool going but so much so that the milk oftentimes gets air in the middle of the process because the surface gets pushed below the steam wand tip by the whirlpool, but if I bury the wand any deeper then the milk starts screaming at me/no incorporation happens, so it's almost as if I have to track the wand downwards as the whirlpool intensifies across the course of microfoaming, which makes for very finicky steaming!


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

nightslayer said:


> Do you know the hole diameter of the steam tip on the bianca? I think the Cherub has actually got 1.5mm holes - I can get a ferocious whirlpool going but so much so that the milk oftentimes gets air in the middle of the process because the surface gets pushed below the steam wand tip by the whirlpool, but if I bury the wand any deeper then the milk starts screaming at me/no incorporation happens, so it's almost as if I have to track the wand downwards as the whirlpool intensifies across the course of microfoaming, which makes for very finicky steaming!


 I own an ACS Minima and I'm experimenting with different steam tips, 1.2mm and 1.5mm, 2, 3 and 4 holes. With the larger holes I have the same problem as you, the steam pressure or flow is so strong it pushes the milk downwards and upwards. I have to angle the pitcher downwards and place the steam tip close to the back of the pitcher (right or left side) to get a more horizontal whirpool. It's worth experimenting with different angles and steam tip placements. Lowering the temperature helps too. Steaming 120ml of milk in a 300ml pitcher is going to be very challenging though?


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## nightslayer (May 29, 2016)

I know it's challenging from experience (and I think I often use closer to 140ml and have a bit left over) - I just need to know that there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with the machine I have; steam power seems fantastic (and even too much) but if the pros can do good with the same then I'll just stick at it for however long it takes to git gud!

That being said the Slayer has tips with 1mm holes so maybe it wouldn't be giving up if I were to go back to the 1mms (and maybe the 1mm should work as well and again it's just my technique that's not getting me there!)


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

@nightslayer I understand your frustration as I'm trying to perfect my milk steaming before I can even draw art like yours. I know there will be some wastage but is it not better to use more milk in a 350ml jug, maybe 180ml and see how you get on?

Whilst many think they create excellent milk texture, when you are striving to create intricate latter art like yourself it really does require the milk to be homogeneous. You can tell when you pour - if there is too much or too little foam at the beginning or end of the pour it isn't properly incorporated. Have you tried pouring into another jug?

Although it is tricky I'm trying to aerate the milk as quickly as possible (without large bubbles) so I can spend more time incorporating.

Currently I have settled with two options. 3 hole tip with 1.2mm holes at 130C or 2 hole tip with 1.5mm holes at 125C. Both seem to require different steam tip placement.


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## SurreyAlan (8 mo ago)

I have much the same problem on my Profitec 400, as occassionally it comes out OK I'm sure it's me and not the machine.


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## coff33_life (4 mo ago)

Doram said:


> Could it be the quantity of milk and the fit to the size of the jug? I usually try to use the smallest amount of milk I can get away with (to minimize leftover), but I find that this hinders the quality of the foam. If I use a bit more milk the foam improves substantially even if I do exactly the same.


That's your problem your using too little milk and towards the end of the milk it's thicker . Also make sure your pitcher is the correct size . I fill mine just above the spout . Drink what's left or swish it round so it's thinner and pour into your cup . It will lift the art up to the top . I do a lot of art with the Moka pen and the end milk is perfect as my art sauce just sits on it )


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