# Sage/Breville Barista Touch - Brewing time



## Gee2021 (Dec 19, 2021)

Hi al!

newbie to the forum and to sage machines. Managed to get myself a touch in Black Friday sales, set it up and is so much better than previous pod machines I've used before!

Before I begin I have read lots of threads here including the pinned thread and I have done a lot of research (I feel!) into how to pull a better shot.

I started on stale beans from supermarket before knowing any better but have since upgraded To Pact Ciffee subscription (the one where I get the same beans every week until I get the hang of it). currently beans I'm using roasted on 15th December and received on 17th.

Inside Burr set to 3 and on about a 6 on outside grinder.

Coffee tastes significantly better than previously (especially old beans!) however with coffee scales it's grinding about 16g so I manually get to between 18.5 and 19g (I will change the settings to get this consistently but only once I've got it down properly) however it's pulling out 100g of liquid, so significantly more than the 1:2 ish ratio I've seen.

coffee starts pouring around 5-6 seconds so perhaps I still need it finer?

Just can't seem to get anywhere near the 1:2 ratio and would really like to gain some insight into how as I have done a lot of research and I can't seem to figure it out!

Any help will be much appreciated!!

Also, for cappuccino feel max milk temp of 75 is sufficiently hot but as this is max just want to check people think it's normal

Thanks again!

Gee


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Hi,

If you take a look on YouTube at hoons coffee hes done loads of vids,


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## jansnSennerip (10 mo ago)

Hey there! 
I am quiet new to the sage barista touch, and i am unsure about the brewing time of coffe. 
With some research done, the thing that almost everyone agree on is: 
Ratio 1:2 and extract in 30 seconds. 
I have tried to follow that, and I am currently using 18 grams coffe beans, and looking for extracting 36 grams of espresso shot. 
My machine is as standard set to 30 sec, and I can see that the coffe starts to drip arround 6-7 seconds after pressing start, which everyone calls "preinfusion time" i think. 
My question is tho, are the preinfusion time included in the 30 seconds of extracition time, or should I make the machine brew for 36-37 seconds instead, so that there is extracted 30 sec to the cup? 
Any help is welcome, and have a great day. 

Best Regards


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## spartan (9 mo ago)

Hi Gee,

Did you find a solution to this? I have just bought a Sage Oracle touch and I am having the exact same problem.

Thanks


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## Drlivingstoned (8 mo ago)

Hi Gee.

I suppose you own the Sage Barista Touch (not the oracle). I have one too and struggled week after week after week (wasting kilo's of good beans) to get a good cup of coffee.The problem is that my shots are always sour. Whatever I do.

Different grinds,ordering fresh beans with guaranteed sweetness, use distributor tools, weigthing 18 grams in the basket. I tried more or less yield ... but no happy results. Even setting the temperature to +4 did not do the trick.
My best results came from supermarket coffee in the pressure basket. And that is not a good thing :-(

Sage offers a 1:1 talk with one of their baristas. I got a ticket and recently I had a zoom-call with one of them.
He told me I should stop experimenting and start again with the pre-programmed menu. Because the machine is designed to work best with its pre-programmed choices.

So we started again. Make a cappucino from the menu options.

Set everything back to default (temperature back to normal. +4 makes very bitter dark roast)
Grind 18 grams
Let it flow until it stops (i think it is 30seconds)
Weight it. Yield must be between 54 and 60 grams.
If you got more than 60 gram, adjust grinder to fine (1 or 2 steps)
If you got less than 54 gram, adjust grinder to coars (1 or 2 steps)

It is kind of funny, because I have tried and experimented so much, but this time it did really work !
Finally thr first coffee from this machine that was not sour (or at least a good balance between sourness and bitterness). The first coffee from this machine that I would call "better than you will get in most restaurants"

I still get sour shots sometimes, even without adjusting anything.
I suspect the grinder. If I keep the settings the same (internal burr - 2, adjustable grinder - 14) I sometimes get 18 grams in the basket, but the next time it is 19gr ... And also with the same grinder settings sometimes I get 52 grams yield, and the next one 66 grams yield (sour).
The thing I learned from this :

The internal grinder is not very good / stable
The "window" where my coffee tastes good is very small. Small adjustments make large difference.
This is maybe why all the previous experiments did not work out well.

I have also good results with pre-heating the machine. I have no proof, only a strong feeling, that warming up the machine makes a great difference :

heat up the boiler by using the steam wand
warm up the equipment by running one dummy shot !

Good luck and please share your experience with the Sage Barista Touch


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## Drlivingstoned (8 mo ago)

hi @jansnSennerip

i posted above a comment that might answer your question.

dose 18 gram
i have about 8 seconds pre-infusion
after pushing the menu button it is about 30 seconds until it stops
yield should be 54-60 gram

please share your results


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## scottriglar8 (8 mo ago)

Hi buddy been enjoying my coffee thought I would turn my touch back to its factory settings. Have to say the original settings are alot better at my attempt to dial it in. I bought a bellow hopper to replace
























the factory hopper, it really clears the residue left after grinding.


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## Drlivingstoned (8 mo ago)

Hi, scottriglar8

That is really an interesting hopper! Until now i had not seen it but it looks great. Somewhere in the future I hope to buy a good grinder since the breville/sage grinder is not that good. So I wonder if the small investment in this hopper + weight + bellow is worth its money. If it makes the grinder just good enough it will save me a few hundred euro's and also some free space in my kitchen.

What is your advise ? And do you need the weight also ?


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## Drlivingstoned (8 mo ago)

I also like to continue my post from may 19th. After the zoom session with the sage barista I went back to factory settings and was advised to use the pre programmed menu options. First results made me happy, but the sour taste came back. To my dispair.

I was very lucky I got the chance to meet another owner of the sage barista touch. 
We did some test and experiments, and finally I got some good results.
This is what made the difference :

Cleaning and descaling. Not only the machine but also all the tools
Only put 18 grams in the hopper. Dont use it as a storage container.
Take the efford to heat up the machine. One blanc shot with portafilter first, and just before you make the coffee make one blanc shot again. (there should be a little steam by now).
The barista touch really really really really HATES grinder adjustments. If you adjust the grinder it takes ages before you get a nice tasting shot. Just find a grinder setting that gives 18gr in / 36gr out, flows good, smells good, looks good. If it does not taste good, just wait one day and try again. This strange rule was magic to me !
Use all the tools (WDT, calibrated tamper, leveler).
-I recently got the "puck re-usable screen" and that works better than I ever expected. Not very expensive too.

Another thing ...
I never tasted coffee "roasted on date", only supermarket coffee.And I used always a full automatic machine.
So I have nothing to compare to. Fresh coffee is so powerfull, strong and alive that my senses and taste got off the rails.
I started to taste sour where there is no sour, just bitterness. If you get in the situation that everything tastes bad, it just could be yourself instead of the machine. 

Take a few days off, find someone who can make good coffee and compare and re-adjust your sense of taste.

It took me a long journey to produce a good cup of coffee. I hope this short story can help others on the right track without all the frustration and kilo's of wasted beans.

Good luck !


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## scottriglar8 (8 mo ago)

Drlivingstoned said:


> Hi, *scottriglar8
> 
> That is really an interesting hopper! Until now i had not seen it but it looks great. Somewhere in the future I hope to buy a good grinder since the breville/sage grinder is not that good. So I wonder if the small investment in this hopper + weight + bellow is worth its money. If it makes the grinder just good enough it will save me a few hundred euro's and also some free space in my kitchen.
> 
> What is your advise ? And do you need the weight also ?*


Well the hopper itself is made to an absolutely fantastic degree of engineering. It fits effortlessly onto the machine. The amount of coffee grinds that come out when the hopper is pressed is unbelievable. The weight is to stop the beans from flying about, was not sure myself but I can see its use. Its not necessary if money is tight.
I weigh 18 grams into the hopper. It cuts waste and is a major help in getting a more even coffee.
I know people say the hopper is weak, but this raises the bar for me.

This is made in Seattle and was sat on my coffee machine in just over 8 days.

Thumbs up from me.


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