# Is the Londinium 1 worth a grand more than the Fracino Retro? If so, why?



## Lord Fluff (Jul 27, 2015)

I've seen neither in person, but given Fracino make the Londinium I am imagining a similar build quality to both - 7.5 litre boiler in both....ok nice handles on the L1...what am I missing?

Is the Thermosiphon worth the extra cash? Does it produce much better shots than a dipper, even in the small numbers you see for home use?

I'm prepared to be educated here, it just seems like they are quite similar, built by the same people, and it's considerable price differential...


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

If you are seeing a 7L boiler then you are referring to the old L1-P which has an HX circuit not a thermosiphon which was fitted to the previous older L1 which has now become the L-R.

If have got the above right, then HX compared to dipper comes down to consistency of shot temp, the L2 being just a bigger boiler'd version of the L1 @Sharkie has an L1(-P) and may be able to confirm what am about to say.

My previous "big" lever was a dipper (conti cc-100) and it was ok for 2-3 one after another shots then would need a bit of rest to stabilise otherwise water was coming out the head much hotter than useful for espresso, the group functioning more to cool the shot water than maintain temp as you would with an HX.

Now, have to state, have no direct use with the Fracino so just comparing dipper experience vs HX so may be other differences not aware of (assuming you are not running on LPG as well)

Hope of help

John


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

There have also been differing groups fitted dependant on where you have seen the Fracino for sale so could be another potential difference.

John


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## Lord Fluff (Jul 27, 2015)

johnealey said:


> If you are seeing a 7L boiler then you are referring to the old L1-P which has an HX circuit not a thermosiphon which was fitted to the previous older L1 which has now become the L-R.
> 
> for espresso, the group functioning more to cool the shot water than maintain temp as you would with an HX.


Reiss really doesn't help with the nomenclature

The L1 (as of now) has a 7L boiler and is a mains-connected machine

https://londiniumespresso.com/specifications/espresso-machine-specifications

The Fracino retro is a current model commercial machine, with the same group (seemingly - it's hard to imagine it is any different), at 1100 GBP less than the L1

https://www.cs-catering-equipment.co.uk/fracino-retro-fcl1-one-group-semi-auto-coffee-machine


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

ah, now you see I did a quick search and found same site but differing power options and also had a different group (hence ask about LPG)

https://www.cs-catering-equipment.co.uk/fracino-retro-fcl1-dual-fuel-lpg-gas-coffee-machine

difference will no doubt be more than skin deep / difference between HX and dipper etc but see your point (and your original question







)

John


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## Lord Fluff (Jul 27, 2015)

Sorry yes, I think the dual fuel looks to have a different group, I had missed that


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