# The Push Tamper -Maxwell's WBC 2015 Act



## Xpenno

Did anyone else catch the livestream of Maxwell's performance?

He's got a new tamper that looks similar to the Londinium one but it overhangs the basket to you always tamp to the same height. He looks like he's basically leaning on the basket...

As with most coffee related gadgets I'm interested to know more









The rest of the performance was pretty good as well!


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## Xpenno

http://livestream.com/worldcoffee/events/3952840

Here is the stream.


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## Mrboots2u

Maxtamp?

Dashtamp?

Tampwell?


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## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Maxtamp?
> 
> Dashtamp?
> 
> Tampwell?


Yes, I think we do need a new signature product, it's been at least a couple of months since the Pergtamp....


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## mremanxx

That looked like a very heavy tamp no?

I thought grind fine/tamp light was the way now???


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## Xpenno

mremanxx said:


> That looked like a very heavy tamp no?
> 
> I thought grind fine/tamp light was the way now???


Agreed, might be an EK thing. Matt Perger mentioned heavy tamping as well.

I still don't think there is a definitive tamp pressure I know people who like it different ways.


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## Xpenno

Xpenno said:


> Agreed, might be an EK thing. Matt Perger mentioned heavy tamping as well.
> 
> I still don't think there is a definitive tamp pressure I know people who like it different ways.


One thing I wondered is if by putting a load of weight on the puck that you even out distribution in the basket just through sheer force. Is distribution more important than total tamp pressure.

It could be just down to the coffee used, it looked pretty lightly developed.

It could just be consistency and having the tamper come to rest on the basket rim you achieve the same tamp every-time....


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## mremanxx

Just wondered if things were going backwards, as a noob I asked about the "30lb" tamp pressure quoted on various sites but was informed that that wasn't the norm nowadays.

Might make the Espros popular?


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## Xpenno

There is no right or wrong, if someone told you otherwise then I don't think that's correct. Espresso is all about consistency, if you grind fine and tamp lighter all the time you will dial in everything to make good coffee, if you grind course and tamp hard then you will also be able to make great coffee, it's when you switch things up every 5 minutes (guilty!) then you end up in a mess in the middle.


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## Xpenno

Website down but this is the tamper

http://www.clockworkespresso.com/

From twitter

"It's our new PUSH. The world's most precise tamper"


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## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> There is no right or wrong, if someone told you otherwise then I don't think that's correct. Espresso is all about consistency, if you grind fine and tamp lighter all the time you will dial in everything to make good coffee, if you grind course and tamp hard then you will also be able to make great coffee, it's when you switch things up every 5 minutes (guilty!) then you end up in a mess in the middle.


Lol....Every 5 minutes

Lightweight

Mess in the middle sums up my spro at mo


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## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Lol....Every 5 minutes
> 
> Lightweight
> 
> Mess in the middle sums up my spro at mo


It's ok mate, you're in the middle of a 3 day post-barista meltdown.


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## Pompeyexile

I think you're right Xpenno. Surely once the tamp rim rests on the basket edge no more pressure can be put on it so no matter how little or much pressure you put on it that's got to give a consistent tamp. I guess the only thing which would make a difference is the amount of grinds and the grind, but again if that stays the same the compaction stays the same surely. Oh and I suppose the depth of the tamper to the overhang stays the same too.

Wouldn't that have the same effect as the tamper with the built in pressure click that stops you over egging it?

Takes the guesswork out of how much or little pressure to apply.


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## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> It's ok mate, you're in the middle of a 3 day post-barista meltdown.


Post barista

End of half term

Middle life crisis


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## Xpenno

Pompeyexile said:


> I think you're right Xpenno. Surely once the tamp rim rests on the basket edge no more pressure can be put on it so no matter how little or much pressure you put on it that's got to give a consistent tamp. I guess the only thing which would make a difference is the amount of grinds and the grind, but again if that stays the same the compaction stays the same surely. Oh and I suppose the depth of the tamper to the overhang stays the same too.
> 
> Wouldn't that have the same effect as the tamper with the built in pressure click that stops you over egging it?
> 
> Takes the guesswork out of how much or little pressure to apply.


You get the added bonus of the level edge of basket that the tamper ends up on I guess? If you use any manual tamp it's all down to the user.


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## "coffee 4/1"

thought i was settled on the tamping journey, i seem to have gone back a decade to the "staub tamp"

don't know why i ditched that method.


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## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> Website down but this is the tamper
> 
> http://www.clockworkespresso.com/
> 
> From twitter
> 
> "It's our new PUSH. The world's most precise tamper"


I could still tamp skew wiff with that tamp


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## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> I could still tamp skew wiff with that tamp


Haha, I know what you mean mate, some of Maxwell's didn't look perfect. The pours looked nice on that black eagle thing.


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## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> Haha, I know what you mean mate, some of Maxwell's didn't look perfect. The pours looked nice on that black eagle thing.


still racing a little

interesting to see the recipe looked like a 25 second shot ....


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## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> still racing a little
> 
> interesting to see the recipe looked like a 25 second shot ....


In UKBC I'm sure he said he was doing a 52g spro or something.


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## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> In UKBC I'm sure he said he was doing a 52g spro or something.


thats a big dose


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## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> thats a big dose


Sometimes I wish there was knob smiley







xx


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## jeebsy

Pompeyexile said:


> I think you're right Xpenno. Surely once the tamp rim rests on the basket edge no more pressure can be put on it so no matter how little or much pressure you put on it that's got to give a consistent tamp. I guess the only thing which would make a difference is the amount of grinds and the grind, but again if that stays the same the compaction stays the same surely. Oh and I suppose the depth of the tamper to the overhang stays the same too.


Your tamp pressure might not necessarily be consistent between coffees as 17g of one coffee might take less room in the basket than 17g of another coffee but like you say, as long as it's the same for each coffee then that's fine - although 18g would be tamped harder than 17g


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## garydyke1

The tamper is height adjustable , the depth = force/compression









Ive tasted his comp coffee , using that tamper and the EK and its a force to be reckoned with .


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## jeebsy

Xpenno said:


> Website down but this is the tamper
> 
> http://www.clockworkespresso.com/
> 
> From twitter
> 
> "It's our new PUSH. The world's most precise tamper"


Website up now. WANT


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## garydyke1

They are pretty cool


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## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Website up now. WANT


Yeah saw the vid, was that a VST though? I presume it will be made to fit VST....

Looks stunning though, do you think they'll do an orange one for you mate?


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## froggystyle

Ok I don't get, you still have to set it up, in terms of the depth from of pf top rim and bed of grinds. So do you need to change for different beans?


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## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> Website up now. WANT


Balls , reading this shit costs me money....

Interest registered


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## garydyke1

froggystyle said:


> So do you need to change for different beans?


Yes.


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## jeebsy

Price point will be interesting for this, as well size



garydyke1 said:


> Yes.


Given it'll tamp the same each time, do you think it matter if the equivalent pressure on one bean is 20lbs, another 15, another 18? If it's the same for each bean each time then you'll adjust with your grind


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## DoubleShot

Mrboots2u said:


> Balls , reading this shit costs me money....
> 
> Interest registered


Ditto!


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## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Price point will be interesting for this, as well size
> 
> Given it'll tamp the same each time, do you think it matter if the equivalent pressure on one bean is 20lbs, another 15, another 18? If it's the same for each bean each time then you'll adjust with your grind


Switch from a peaberry to pacamara with same dose and you'll need to adjust it slightly. Its not a an issue tho, really.


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## hotmetal

It seems to me like this tamper will do 2 things: a nice flat puck and consistent headroom. But unless you're dosing exactly the same each time, you'll get fairly large differences in compaction between say 17.5g and 18.5g. This will presumably be more of a problem if you set it up to apply light pressure but then put slightly too much coffee in the basket. The Espro by comparison will give you a more even pressure regardless of exact dose, but will do nothing to help you get it level. I guess you just have to decide which aspect you think you need more help with. Or which looks coolest (this bad boy wins on that front!)


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## froggystyle

I like it, but then I do like the feel of a nice tamper in my palm...


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## garydyke1

hotmetal said:


> But unless you're dosing exactly the same each time


Why wouldn't you be?

Dont forget :

Less RSI for staff

Less inconsistency between tamping pressure from different staff

Even tamp every time


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## hotmetal

It is a cool product, I'm not criticising it and you're right about the other benefits Gary. I'm just wondering how much variance could creep in if the dose isn't carefully weighed and corrected to the nearest 0.1g? The intention is to dose consistently but even on demand grinders vary a bit in output from one grind to the next.


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## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Why wouldn't you be?
> 
> Dont forget :
> 
> Less RSI for staff
> 
> Less inconsistency between tamping pressure from different staff
> 
> Even tamp every time


cafe quality , consistency across staff is key from the head barista to the weekend person that covers shifts

ti the student who just has a beard and a snood , and likes talking to chicks who order hot chocolate

Getting them all to delver the same , it what makes good =great


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## froggystyle

Beard and a snood, is that the new hipster look?


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## garydyke1

hotmetal said:


> It is a cool product, I'm not criticising it and you're right about the other benefits Gary. I'm just wondering how much variance could creep in if the dose isn't carefully weighed and corrected to the nearest 0.1g? The intention is to dose consistently but even on demand grinders vary a bit in output from one grind to the next.


Mythos One is 0.2g variance which most serious shops are shooting for right now. Perfectly acceptable.

Existing tampers have the same dose variance issues to deal with but have added variables to throw into the mix


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## Mrboots2u

froggystyle said:


> Beard and a snood, is that the new hipster look?


I dunno daddio

I live up north


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## DoubleShot

Mrboots2u said:


> I live up north


Your accent isn't very strong Boots. Was expecting...norff!


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## froggystyle

He's posh!


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## DoubleShot

Ah, explains it then!


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## Milanski

love the button design as with the londinium tamper but always found it hard to get a level bed. looks like it's problem solved!


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## jeebsy

froggystyle said:


> He's posh!


It's Lord Boots to you


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## jeebsy

Xpenno said:


> Looks stunning though, do you think they'll do an orange one for you mate?



View attachment 13305


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## samjfranklin

It sounds like Maxwell may be a subscribee of the barista hustle? "I'll be using horizontal and vertical taps"


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## Geordie Boy

Why did I open this thread....I want!

Loving the different colours, and all from a UK company as well is a bonus


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## Mrboots2u

Geordie Boy said:


> Why did I open this thread....I want!
> 
> Loving the different colours, and all from a UK company as well is a bonus


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## 4085

even to me, these look interesting. I wonder how you get one


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## DoubleShot

dfk41 said:


> even to me, these look interesting. I wonder how you get one


Subscribe via this link to be kept up to date with details:

http://www.clockworkespresso.com


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## froggystyle

Anyone want to hazard a guess at pricing?


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## Flibster

I've seen something a few years back that was kind of similar... Was ground from stone iirc so wasn't adjustable, but had the lip for level tamping.

This is an interesting development on it though.


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## Xpenno

froggystyle said:


> Anyone want to hazard a guess at pricing?


I'm guessing £100-£130... No idea though


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## NickdeBug

froggystyle said:


> Anyone want to hazard a guess at pricing?


Sounds like they are pitching for the commerical market, so who knows. Looks good anyway. Got to be better than the cursory tamp that the coffee usually gets from the doser mounted spring tamper they use in Costalot.


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## hotmetal

I'd hope they were comparable in price to a decent Torr or top end MBK. They would appear to be 2 pieces of precision machined metal with a fine thread and possibly an o ring to prevent adjustment drifting. Add a few quid for coolness factor and maybe they're £50-60? Pure guess/wishful thinking on my part. I'd be surprised and maybe a bit gutted if they're in Pullman territory.


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## mremanxx

Just watched the video of this tamper, very clever and simple, however how would you compensate for using different types of basket? Surely if you got one for a standard would you not need one for say a VST due to the basket dimensions? Am I not correct in saying that 16g coffee in a standard basket takes more space up than in a VST one, hence the ability to put say 18g in a VST.


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## StuartS

I was thinking the same but i assume the tamper part screws into the top part so you can adjust the depth.


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## mremanxx

StuartS said:


> I was thinking the same but i assume the tamper part screws into the top part so you can adjust the depth.


Didn't think about that, but that could pose two issues, how to maintain the same depth as it doesn't look like it has a locking system and would you not risk getting grinds between the head and body?


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## garydyke1

It does have a locking mech


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## Flibster

Just watched the video again... that is the mankiest portafilter I've seen in a while.









Looks like it's been used as a hammer.


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## hotmetal

Flibster said:


> Looks like it's been used as a hammer.


maxwell's silver hammer?

Sorry I couldn't resist!


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## unoll

On, how it locks up: I think if you watch Maxwell's routine (3:23:50 on the bar),you can see that it perhaps uses a grub screw on the side to prevent further turning.

I was surprised to see this design as I had the same idea a while back after seeing the razor tool that came with the Sage DB (although it stayed in autocad and went no further). I'm sure that whoevers come up with it is now going to be flooded with orders from all over, hopefully they can meet demand.


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## Dylan

Great idea, I think it is perhaps underestimated how much a small variance in the level-ness of the tamp can affect the pull.


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## Clockwork

Hi Everyone,

I'm Pete, the designer of Maxwell's tamper, PUSH, and founder of Clockwork Espresso. Thanks for all your support - I came across this thread because coffeeforums.co.uk was one of the biggest referrers to our website. I'll do my best to answer your questions, but some things won't be announced just yet. You will hear that info first if you sign up here - http://www.clockworkespresso.com/register-interest

If you want to post some questions below, I'll try and answer them some time soon. Pricing and availability will be announced when pre-orders open.

Thanks, Pete


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## Mrboots2u

Clockwork said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I'm Pete, the designer of Maxwell's tamper, PUSH, and founder of Clockwork Espresso. Thanks for all your support - I came across this thread because coffeeforums.co.uk was one of the biggest referrers to our website. I'll do my best to answer your questions, but some things won't be announced just yet. You will hear that info first if you sign up here - http://www.clockworkespresso.com/register-interest
> 
> If you want to post some questions below, I'll try and answer them some time soon. Pricing and availability will be announced when pre-orders open.
> 
> Thanks, Pete


What diameter is it please


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## Daren

Will you also be offering different shaped bases ie convex?


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## Daren

Oh - and a forum discount?







(if you don't ask.....)


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## ronsil

If we get enough interest might be a subject for a group buy.

Happy to take that on if we get that far & subject to price???


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## Mrboots2u

Ta ron. Again lets refrain from starting any lists of interest in this till we have a price etc . Cheers


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## jeebsy

Ballpark on when they'll be available?


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## Glenn

Hi Pete

Great to see you Coffee Forums UK

With nearly 10000 members we are a noticeable bunch









Have a great time in Seattle and enjoy Maxwell's performance today!

We look forward to receiving details in due course, and many have signed up to receive information (myself included) upon your return

All the best, Glenn


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## MarkyP

As these guys are pretty local to me, I'd be happy to run a group buy...

If it were possible of course!


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## Mrboots2u

Ok lets wait and see please

thanks for all the offer of group buy organisers

Until this is launched with prices , lets leave it for now


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## El carajillo

I think I will design an ornate display cabinet for all the tampers that we buy to add to our paraphernalia.

Any recommendations / suggestions for the number it should accommodate ?

Any one with CAD who could assist with design and 3 D printer for fabrication ?


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## Mrboots2u

El carajillo said:


> I think I will design an ornate display cabinet for all the tampers that we buy to add to our paraphernalia.
> 
> Any recommendations / suggestions for the number it should accommodate ?
> 
> Any one with CAD who could assist with design and 3 D printer for fabrication ?


One in one out

Thats my tamper philosophy


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## coffeechap

Mrboots2u said:


> One in one out
> 
> Thats my tamper philosophy


that is almost mine


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## El carajillo

coffeechap said:


> that is almost mine


You are telling "PORKIES"


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## Dylan

Mrboots2u said:


> Ok lets wait and see please
> 
> thanks for all the offer of group buy organisers
> 
> Until this is launched with prices , lets leave it for now


Such a killjoy boots


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## coffeechap

El carajillo said:


> You are telling "PORKIES"


of course, my coffee corner/avenue would be nothing without at least 5 tampers


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## DoubleShot

coffeechap

And do you regularly use them all or often just your favourite one?

Since getting my hands on a Torr Titanium TI 58.55mm, I've never used the Goldfinger. Sold my other two tampers also.


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## Xpenno

DoubleShot said:


> coffeechap
> 
> And do you regularly use them all or often just your favourite one?
> 
> Since getting my hands on a Torr Titanium TI 58.55mm, I've never used the Goldfinger. Sold my other two tampers also.


I think he's got a Pergtamp hidden behind his machine that he uses


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## coffeechap

DoubleShot said:


> coffeechap
> 
> And do you regularly use them all or often just your favourite one?
> 
> Since getting my hands on a Torr Titanium TI 58.55mm, I've never used the Goldfinger. Sold my other two tampers also.


I use the 58.55 the most and the new londinium button tamper, I occassionally use the torr goldfinger as it has a convex base I also use the other sizes that I have for the la pavonis, but I pretty much go to the 58.55 most times. (time to get rid of some tampers me thinks).


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## DoubleShot

To make room for a Clockwork Espresso Push tamper?


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## Phil104

Mrboots2u said:


> One in one out
> 
> Thats my tamper philosophy


Mmmm, that's where I have already started to go wrong.

Incidentally, does this thread now deserve to be relabelled as a Push tamper thread?


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## dwalsh1

hotmetal said:


> It seems to me like this tamper will do 2 things: a nice flat puck and consistent headroom. But unless you're dosing exactly the same each time, you'll get fairly large differences in compaction between say 17.5g and 18.5g. This will presumably be more of a problem if you set it up to apply light pressure but then put slightly too much coffee in the basket. The Espro by comparison will give you a more even pressure regardless of exact dose, but will do nothing to help you get it level. I guess you just have to decide which aspect you think you need more help with. Or which looks coolest (this bad boy wins on that front!)


Perhaps you need to weigh, add/subtract to the desired amount of grams in the portfilter and that way the weight stays consistent



mremanxx said:


> Just watched the video of this tamper, very clever and simple, however how would you compensate for using different types of basket? Surely if you got one for a standard would you not need one for say a VST due to the basket dimensions? Am I not correct in saying that 16g coffee in a standard basket takes more space up than in a VST one, hence the ability to put say 18g in a VST.


Not sure why you would want to change baskets. I've had the same 18g strada basket clipped into my handle for some time.


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## Sk8-bizarre

Hmmmm not sure if I like it or not. I almost bought one of those Londinium buttons as loved the look and kinda made sense to me in my head but Coffeechap came through with a lovely looking and turned out working/feeling Torr at exactly the right time.

Only an immediate coolness level and what grabbed me fully it has Clockwork as a name and if it was orange well that for me would hold massive levels of cool!

Not sure I like the CNC clean look of it kinda brand new sports car/bike vs classic car/bike if you get me but looks are such a personal thing mine being old school.

Get the level setting ideas and such but makes me think of the Espro click which I looked at and didn't buy as it took away a challenge and also was expensive for what I saw as a little immediate gain over trial, error and learning to becoming consistent/good (I'm not by the way, no where near but still trying to be EVERY TIME).

Maxwell is using it which pushes me to want one almost out of loyalty for some stupid reason as its due to his cafe and an espresso I was served there that I became so interested in all of this, ridiculous of me but there you go.

On name and possible colour orange yes.....on 'modern' machined nope.....

On helpful 'settings', lip of basket vs being consistent or trying.....Hmmmm no and yes....

All that being said it's all very personal as ever and yeah I registered my interest, well come on, just in case you know....


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## Rhys

..wonder how much they'll be..?


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## Clockwork

Hi All,

So since Maxwell competed, we've been completely swamped. Demand is considerably higher than we expected. I have an inbox full of emails which are well overdue a reply to, but since you guys sent a lot of traffic to our site in the first few days, I thought a quick post here was only fair. Apologies to anyone who's emailed us and not had a reply yet - it's on the way.

Given that demand is so high, if we want to have any hope of fulfilling all the orders we're having to rethink manufacturing methods/processes. Don't worry - this doesn't mean we're handing it over to China - current plans are still for 100% UK manufacture. This is going to take a bit of time, but also has the potential to change the cost of the product, which is why we haven't announced pricing yet. We promise, we'll let you know about availability and pricing as soon as we can. The first people to know will always be the people who have signed up here.

As for the product, the first release will be a VST size flat base, but there is a good chance we will offer other sizes and shapes soon after. The precision of the diameter will be considerably tighter than anything else on the market. For anyone that missed it, there's a small non-marking screw on the side which locks the base in position. The base screws in and out of the handle, allowing you to set the tamping depth to incredible accuracy. Current plans are for the handles to be available in 4 colours to begin with - Blue, Green, Pink and Orange, with more to follow.

Hope that answers your questions, and once again thanks for all your support. I'll be at the London Coffee Festival, not exhibiting, but wandering around with the few PUSH tampers that currently exist. It's unlikely that I'll be able to arrange to meet individuals, but there's a good chance you might bump into me at some point.

Cheers,

Pete


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## Neill

Did you hear that Jeebsy, it comes in ORANGE!


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## jeebsy

Neill said:


> Did you hear that Jeebsy, it comes in ORANGE!


I'm cleaning up the mess I just made


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## DoubleShot

Clockwork said:


> Current plans are for the handles to be available in 4 colours to begin with - Blue, Green, Pink and Orange, with more to follow.


froggystyle plus others might be a little disappointed there's no love for a red handle in the initial run?


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## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> I'm cleaning up the mess I just made


Is the mess Orange too.....


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## froggystyle

Its ok, i can live without this.


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## Mrboots2u

froggystyle said:


> Its ok, i can live without this.


But there is blue froggy and as you well know

Blue is THE colour


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## froggystyle

Indeed.


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## gman147

... Football is the game ️


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## Milanski

They'd better be working on the black and brushed steel finishes is all I can say...


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## coffeechap

Clockwork said:


> Hi All,
> 
> . The precision of the diameter will be considerably tighter than anything else on the market.
> 
> Pete


that is a bold statement, there aree already to very accurate 58.55 tampers on the forum, lets hpe that statement is backed up.


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## 4085

coffeechap said:


> that is a bold statement, there aree already to very accurate 58.55 tampers on the forum, lets hpe that statement is backed up.


Has anyone ever measured their tamper or do we buy these things acceptng and expecting them to measure up. I suspect it would take an expensive bit of kit toaccurately detect differences of 0.05 mm


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## coffeechap

i have measured mine and it is spot on, well at least to the calipers i am using


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## dwalsh1

Are you speaking on behalf of Jens or yourself Dave.


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## El carajillo

Does anyone really believe that these infinite degree's of precision add anything to the "CUP" ,taste , flavour?









With so many other variations it makes a total nonsense that fractions of a "thou" on a tamper will make so much difference.

If you want a tamper because you like it fine, but do not delude yourself that it will miraculously improve your coffee, no matter who promotes it.








:exit:


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## coffeechap

dwalsh1 said:


> Are you speaking on behalf of Jens or yourself Dave.


hey? I am refferring the the measurement of the 58.55 torr that I own,. measured with electronic calipers that I own.


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## coffeechap

El carajillo said:


> Does anyone really believe that these infinite degree's of precision add anything to the "CUP" ,taste , flavour?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With so many other variations it makes a total nonsense that fractions of a "thou" on a tamper will make so much difference.
> 
> If you want a tamper because you like it fine, but do not delude yourself that it will miraculously improve your coffee, no matter who promotes it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :exit:


I agree, a tamper will only make slight improvements, what people that use the prgr and the torr (58.55)have noticed is that in the VST you completely tamp the puck without leaving an edge, surely someone as facinated with precision as you are i engineering should appreciate that it would make a small difference?


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## DoubleShot

coffeechap said:


> I agree, a tamper will only make slight improvements, what people that use the prgr and the torr (58.55)have noticed is that in the VST you completely tamp the puck without leaving an edge


This is the reason, once I tried a Torr Titanium TI 58.55mm in a VST basket, I not only stopped using two of my other tampers (MBK 58.35mm flat and Torr Trapez Convex 58.4mm) but then I decided to move them on.


----------



## Mrboots2u

I like my tamp , i still think the biggest factor in the variation in the cups i make is me ......Having said that though ...

Wait until my bespoke nutating joystick tamper is ready Frank....









When you hit the desired pressure it will speak to you , there will be a series of voices and phrases to choose from..

Currently in trial

Mr T " I pity the fool that says says that isn't level "

Cybermen from Dr Who " You have been upgraded "

Sean Connery Bond " This is not shaken or stirred "


----------



## bronc

This might be the tamper that will replace my trusty 15 quid Motta that I've used for the past 2-3 years. Looks like it'll be able to take one more variable out of the equation making for a more consistent cup.


----------



## 4085

I remember having a chat withsomeone a couple of years ago when we both agreed that the odd 0.5 mm here or there could not affect the shot. What has moved on is the design of the available bottoms which probably can influence (to a degree) the result. But, whether you can repeat that shot time after time is doubrful because there are too many variances. Idoubt the calipers you have DAve are really good enough. If you are manufacturing a product these things are done by laser so I doubt any product for the home will be that accurate.


----------



## El carajillo

Mrboots2u said:


> I like my tamp , i still think the biggest factor in the variation in the cups i make is me ......Having said that though ...
> 
> Wait until my bespoke nutating joystick tamper is ready Frank....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you hit the desired pressure it will speak to you , there will be a series of voices and phrases to choose from..
> 
> Currently in trial
> 
> Mr T " I pity the fool that says says that isn't level "
> 
> Cybermen from Dr Who " You have been upgraded "
> 
> Sean Connery Bond " This is not shaken or stirred "


Additions could include :

You Pl*%^&er Or

What the *%"£& are you doing ?

Go to S/bucks


----------



## Mrboots2u

El carajillo said:


> Additions could include :
> 
> You Pl*%^&er Or
> 
> What the *%"£& are you doing ?
> 
> Go to S/bucks


Robocop movie

" 2o seconds to comply "

or for the lonely perhaps just a " oooooh " in a female voice of your choice....


----------



## jeebsy

Lots of small differences add up to a big one


----------



## 4085

jeebsy said:


> Lots of small differences add up to a big one


try replicating them though


----------



## jeebsy

The sub 20%ers might as well just tamp with their thumbs. I'm after every extra gain i can get


----------



## dwalsh1

jeebsy said:


> I'm after every extra gain i can get


So is everyone but seriously would you know the difference in the cup between a 58.4 and 58.5 tamper?


----------



## garydyke1

You can taste the difference in a 1% increase in extraction , its quite remarkable and very obvious .

Whether 0.1mm difference in tamper width alone is enough to facilitate such an improvement is another matter


----------



## DoubleShot

garydyke1 said:


> You can taste the difference in a 1% increase in extraction, its quite remarkable and obvious.


*closes eyes and imagines what it would be like to have similar taste buds/palate!*


----------



## MWJB

dwalsh1 said:


> So is everyone but seriously would you know the difference in the cup between a 58.4 and 58.5 tamper?


That might be a 1.1mm difference in reality.

EDIT: 2.1mm difference.


----------



## MWJB

DoubleShot said:


> *closes eyes and imagines what it would be like to have similar taste buds/palate!*


You probably have a palate reasonable enough to detect 1%EY difference, especially around tipping points of good flavour. Remember we're typically talking 1% of a 5-6% range, not differences at 1/100 graduations.


----------



## DoubleShot

Was thinking 1% as in 1 out of 100.  Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## Obnic

El carajillo said:


> Does anyone really believe that these infinite degree's of precision add anything to the "CUP" ,taste , flavour?....do not delude yourself that it will miraculously improve your coffee, no matter who promotes it.


Right! If that's the way you want it -- Cardinal! Poke [him] with the soft cushions!


----------



## garydyke1

MWJB said:


> You probably have a palate reasonable enough to detect 1%EY difference, especially around tipping points of good flavour. Remember we're typically talking 1% of a 5-6% range, not differences at 1/100 graduations.


each 1% is a 20% improvement


----------



## hotmetal

Mrboots2u said:


> Robocop movie
> 
> " 2o seconds to comply "


Come on Mr Boots, surely that should be "you have between 25-30 seconds to comply"


----------



## urbanbumpkin

At what point does a tamper become too good a fit for a VST?

i.e. It fits the basket so well that the act of removing it from the basket pulls your nicely tamped puck back out of the VST by suction. Surely there's always got to be a bit of a gap.


----------



## gman147

I tried 58.55, trap sharp edged flat didn't like it; went back to 58.4. Much prefer the curved trap


----------



## garydyke1

urbanbumpkin said:


> At what point does a tamper become too good a fit for a VST?
> 
> i.e. It fits the basket so well that the act of removing it from the basket pulls your nicely tamped puck back out of the VST by suction. Surely there's always got to be a bit of a gap.


Pergtamp is about as wide as I would want


----------



## gman147

I like the fact that I have to employ some level of skill of tamp level. Still interested in this new design however.

Also wondering re the 'contact points' ie underside of PUSH contact with Top side of basket. I envisage some wear and tear there over time? The same contact point on the basket that seals water against the gasket.


----------



## Glenn

Baskets naturally wear and need to be replaced

This is not much of an issue for home users but its not uncommon to replace baskets in a commercial environment - especially if you're making 500+ coffees each day


----------



## gman147

Agreed; but metal on metal wear is much accelerated vs metal on rubber especially with the added pressure of tamping, hence the question.


----------



## El carajillo

coffeechap said:


> I agree, a tamper will only make slight improvements, what people that use the prgr and the torr (58.55)have noticed is that in the VST you completely tamp the puck without leaving an edge, surely someone as facinated with precision as you are i engineering should appreciate that it would make a small difference?


Yes Dave I do like to be precise/ accurate in what I do ,make or mend. That aside I do not think tiny fractions of a millimeter in the size of a tamper can make a" measurable " improvement in the coffee. I would say the helpful improvement is the sharp edge that does not leave a raised loose untamped ridge at the perimeter, which N S E W tamping does not over come (with a rounded edge tamper)

The VST basket I have measures 58.84 mm. Personally I think the 58.55mm tamper is getting a little too tight.

Some members with the 58.55mm tamper are finding that the vacuum created is lifting /disrupting the puck which defeats the object of precise fit.

The tampers are elegant pieces of workmanship with good balance and feel and it is easy to see why members "lust" after them, but as for measurable improvement in tamping I am not convinced.

As has been said many times and quite accurately, "there are more problems on the handle side of the equipment"


----------



## MWJB

I don't think anyone has said that tiny fractions of a millimetre make a significant difference.


----------



## nostream

The Pergtamp has a slanted edge to prevent suction. (Also to allow nutation, but please let's not get into that discussion.)

In my refractometer measurements, I've noticed some improvements from 58.0 to 58.4 but only minor differences between 58.4 and 58.55 (perg). It's possible that the last .15 mm extracts, say .2-3% more, which is not all that significant. It's also very possible that edge sharpness is important - might as well have the sharpest edge you can get. (I don't have the tampers to test that.) Also, curved or ribbed bottoms produce atrocious extractions. Please don't buy one.

So get a 58.4 or larger and you're done. The PUSH seems like it will fall in the >58.4 range, so I'm excited for it. Improvements in average shot quality are more important than improvements in best shot quality to me.


----------



## Mrboots2u

nostream said:


> The Pergtamp has a slanted edge to prevent suction. (Also to allow nutation, but please let's not get into that discussion.)
> 
> In my refractometer measurements, I've noticed some improvements from 58.0 to 58.4 but only minor differences between 58.4 and 58.55 (perg). It's possible that the last .15 mm extracts, say .2-3% more, which is not all that significant. It's also very possible that edge sharpness is important - might as well have the sharpest edge you can get. (I don't have the tampers to test that.) Also, curved or ribbed bottoms produce atrocious extractions. Please don't buy one.
> 
> So get a 58.4 or larger and you're done. The PUSH seems like it will fall in the >58.4 range, so I'm excited for it. Improvements in average shot quality are more important than improvements in best shot quality to me.


There is probably a bigger gain in pairing that plus 54.4 tamper of choice with a decent basket.... ( VST ftw btw .... )

Presume you use VST , if your refracting ?


----------



## Garry

have you guys seen the MBK 58.6 I had the chance to play with one for a few days and compared to the 58.4 we seen a huge drop in channeling and thing it's self was a 520g beast that made me feel like a child could have made the exact same tamp as me


----------



## MWJB

nostream said:


> In my refractometer measurements, I've noticed some improvements from 58.0 to 58.4 but only minor differences between 58.4 and 58.55 (perg). It's possible that the last .15 mm extracts, say .2-3% more, which is not all that significant. It's also very possible that edge sharpness is important - might as well have the sharpest edge you can get.


Did your 58.4mm tamper have a radiussed edge? If so, couldn't the increase be as much down to that, rather than just another 0.1mm overall diameter (Pergtamp claims 58.50 diameter)?


----------



## AussieEx

coffeechap said:


> that is a bold statement, there aree already to very accurate 58.55 tampers on the forum, lets hpe that statement is backed up.


I am also highly sceptical of this claim.


----------



## simontc

Im sceptical, but tamper looks cool. I have to admit the londinium button tamper looks wonderful- if these guys come up cheaper then I may have to jump aboard.


----------



## nostream

Mrboots2u said:


> There is probably a bigger gain in pairing that plus 54.4 tamper of choice with a decent basket.... ( VST ftw btw .... )
> 
> Presume you use VST , if your refracting ?


I've been using VSTs for years and wouldn't want anything else. 17.0-18.0 in a VST 18, most of the time.



MWJB said:


> Did your 58.4mm tamper have a radiussed edge? If so, couldn't the increase be as much down to that, rather than just another 0.1mm overall diameter (Pergtamp claims 58.50 diameter)?


58.4 didn't have a perfectly-straight edge, but the edge was pretty sharp. It was a good edge but not as ultra-sharp as the Perg. A really sloppy-edged tamper might perform worse. I think a 58.4 is more than good enough for most.


----------



## bronc

You May Be Interested In This Hockey Puck Lookin' Coffee Tamper


----------



## jeebsy

bronc said:


> You May Be Interested In This Hockey Puck Lookin' Coffee Tamper


Interesting. Wonder how close we are to ordering stage


----------



## bronc

I'm definitely going to pre-order one. It will mark the end to a period of a couple of months during which I haven't bought a single coffee-related item (excluding beans of course).









By the way, this is the latest info from their Twitter:



> How works the PUSH tamper: discover it at Simonelli&Friends event @PrufrockCoffee 30th april


----------



## bronc

Two photos of the Push from the London coffee festival:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/594205990746202113


----------



## DoubleShot

Our very own Flibster no less!


----------



## Mrboots2u

bronc said:


> I'm definitely going to pre-order one. It will mark the end to a period of a couple of months during which I haven't bought a single coffee-related item (excluding beans of course).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, this is the latest info from their Twitter:


Genius ....

your logic is undeniable .....

I feel the same way after a few weeks and get coffee accessory cold turkey


----------



## Flibster

Here's another shot that kind of shows the scale on the side.









You can also see that the green one has a groove around the bottom edge, but the grey one has a solid, straight tamper.

There was also a couple of different weights. There was a black one that was substantially heavier. Perhaps ~100-150g more. I weighed what I thought was one of the lighter ones while playing with the Brewista scales and it came in at about 350g.


----------



## Milanski

The grey one was one of the very first prototypes apparently and standard 58mm as opposed to a VST fit.


----------



## jeebsy

My wee baby is lurking at the back right of the pic.


----------



## froggystyle

jeebsy said:


> My wee baby is lurking at the back right of the pic.


Looks more like my kind of colour (Red)!


----------



## Phil104

I completely missed this at the Festival - unless it had disappeared on the Saturday - so was disappointed not to see it in the flesh.


----------



## jeebsy

froggystyle said:


> Looks more like my kind of colour (Red)!


It's orange


----------



## Phil104

jeebsy said:


> It's orange


You must have influenced them on this&#8230;..


----------



## jeebsy

View attachment 13777


One of my favourite shops in Glasgow last week - everyone is getting in on it now


----------



## Phil104

jeebsy said:


> View attachment 13777
> 
> 
> One of my favourite shops in Glasgow last week - everyone is getting in on it now


And just to think, it all started here, with you!


----------



## simontc

Phil104 said:


> I completely missed this at the Festival - unless it had disappeared on the Saturday - so was disappointed not to see it in the flesh.


He was roaming. I caught him whilst he was at faema with max.


----------



## jlarkin

I was hoping to find it as well on Sunday but didn't see it around. I was pretty wired though - by halfway through - so I probably just strode straight passed it.


----------



## DoubleShot

The last newsletter email did imply he would be roaming around the festival. Wonder if the decision not to have a proper stand throughout the whole festival (I'm presuming there wasn't one judging by comments above, I myself didn't attend) has anything to do with these tampers yet to hit mass production?

Flibster managed a photo of them (see post #146)


----------



## Phil104

I have been following this thread and am signed up to their site - I guess I just wasn't in the right place at the right time on Saturday as well as there being a lot to take in, a lot of people, and as jlarkin notes, the caffeine effect.


----------



## froggystyle

jeebsy said:


> It's orange


Ahh the twitter pic, was looking at the other one.

You can have it then, ill hold out for the red one.


----------



## Thecatlinux

This has gone quiet have any of these surfaced yet .


----------



## Mrboots2u

Thecatlinux said:


> This has gone quite have any of these surfaced yet .


Would seem not

I think the Iron that needed striking while it was hot , is now a rather tepid warmth.....


----------



## Thecatlinux

I was in bath the day before the Rave forum day , I should have asked about it then .


----------



## Xpenno

Thecatlinux said:


> I was in bath the day before the Rave forum day , I should have asked about it then .


Maxwell wasn't using them in the shop post WBC, that speaks volumes to me.


----------



## Obnic

Xpenno said:


> ?.. that speaks volumes to me.


Me too

Reckon this is still born


----------



## Thecatlinux

Dropped clockwork a PM to see if there is any news


----------



## froggystyle

Stuck my email in the site ages ago and not had one single mail.


----------



## coffeechap

Xpenno said:


> Maxwell wasn't using them in the shop post WBC, that speaks volumes to me.


spoke to Maxwell about this and he said it was more to do with the fact that the black eagle has each of the three groups set up differently and would then require three of these tampers.


----------



## Xpenno

Fair enough, interested to see how people get on with them once they appear.


----------



## jeebsy

coffeechap said:


> spoke to Maxwell about this and he said it was more to do with the fact that the black eagle has each of the three groups set up differently and would then require three of these tampers.


Surely a man of his means and ability could have one colour coded for each group


----------



## Phil104

jeebsy said:


> Surely a man of his means and ability could have one colour coded for each group


 It's the obvious way to go - I was planning on buying at least two for different size baskets or doses, and especially if I can't decide between colours or would like to use a particular colour depending upon my mood that day - which might mean more than two. On the other hand, if there was a version that used thermochromic material, two would still do it (or one, if I was prepared to alter the height).


----------



## Thecatlinux

jeebsy said:


> Surely a man of his means and ability could have one colour coded for each group


from what I saw it's a very busy workflow and judging by how slick and well it runs I would think it would have been considered .


----------



## Dylan

Its also worth saying that this product is aimed at getting consistency among a team of baristas, or in the home. For it to replace the hand of a World Barista Champion would be to suggest he was unable to maintain his own consistency.

For Maxwell it is much less of an 'innovation' than to those of us who don't make enough coffee to maintain near perfect consistency.


----------



## 4085

Dylan said:


> Its also worth saying that this product is aimed at getting consistency among a team of baristas, or in the home. For it to replace the hand of a World Barista Champion would be to suggest he was unable to maintain his own consistency.
> 
> For Maxwell it is much less of an 'innovation' than to those of us who don't make enough coffee to maintain near perfect consistency.


Thats a duff argument Dylan.....the same could be said then of any extra produced to help a barista....why tamp with a tamper when you can use a nice turnip?


----------



## froggystyle

Torr Turnip, liking the sound of that.


----------



## Dylan

dfk41 said:


> Thats a duff argument Dylan.....the same could be said then of any extra produced to help a barista....why tamp with a tamper when you can use a nice turnip?


With an analogy like that, how could I argue with you.


----------



## Xpenno

Dylan said:


> Its also worth saying that this product is aimed at getting consistency among a team of baristas, or in the home. For it to replace the hand of a World Barista Champion would be to suggest he was unable to maintain his own consistency.
> 
> For Maxwell it is much less of an 'innovation' than to those of us who don't make enough coffee to maintain near perfect consistency.


By this argument then the push would improve consistency within C&S as when Maxwell steps off the espresso machine someone else has to take over, when they do they will have a different tamping technique, push would negate this.

I liked the idea of it at first but I can just see me tweaking it all the time and I really don't need any more excuses for things to tweak


----------



## garydyke1

I dont think it works for Maxwell if he's doing different things on different groups, he'd need 2/3 different pushes set to different heights


----------



## 4085

Dylan said:


> With an analogy like that, how could I argue with you.


Flexible things, turnips....ask Baldrick!


----------



## Dylan

Xpenno said:


> By this argument then the push would improve consistency within C&S as when Maxwell steps off the espresso machine someone else has to take over, when they do they will have a different tamping technique, push would negate this.
> 
> I liked the idea of it at first but I can just see me tweaking it all the time and I really don't need any more excuses for things to tweak


I was imagining a setting where Maxwell was the sole user like at WBC, but in his cafe you would be right (I just re-read your above post and realise you did say he wasn't using them in shop).

Think of it like shot jiggers in a bar. TGI Fridays took The Government to court to prove that a skilled barman could pour 25ml more accurately than an unskilled barman with a 25ml jigger as it was a legal requirement to use them and affected their bar work, they were right and they won.

The Push Tamper can improve consistency in many places, but can be a hindrance to a pro.


----------



## jeebsy

froggystyle said:


> Torr Turnip, liking the sound of that.


Turnip base with trumpet handle


----------



## 4085

takes me back to my old school days. at 12, we had an art master who smelt of digestive biscuits. His first set of art classes for new entrants, was to get them to cut a potato in half and etch a design into its face, and then use it to print designs. Funny, many teachers at school all had similar designed potato printed ties.

I think they were all lad when he passed on!


----------



## Tewdric

My guess is he was paid to use it at the champs to create a frenzy of interest amongst gullible coffee nerds. It's worked!


----------



## Spazbarista

Tewdric said:


> My guess is he was paid to use it at the champs to create a frenzy of interest amongst gullible coffee nerds. It's worked!


Oooh you'll have a few of them here hopping up and down in fury with an inflammatory statement like that!

It's funny because my morning coffee preparation goes like this:

Roll out of bed, literally.

Grab some form of clothing shaped object to cover my genitals

Walk down the stairs using memory and feel as my eyes arent open yet

Fumble at the portafilter, and wave it in the direction of the grinder

Force one eye half open, scratch my balls and pass wind

Do some kind of vestigial Stockfleith move as a tip of the hat to you all

Plug in the portafilter and stab at what I hope is the right button

Stand in a daze for a while then remember that I am supposed to be awake

Try and remember where the ****ing fridge is

Oh its underneath the coffee machine

Get out the milk

Slop some into the steaming jug that I will have placed on the drip tray the night before in order to avoid waking the family with the strange mid-pitched bellow I do when I can't find it at 6am

Shove the jug under the wand

Steam on

Cogitate on the the fact that the steaming noise is making me want to go for a piss

Realise that my hand is getting uncomfortably hot

Recognise this as meaning it is time to turn the steam wand off

Wipe the wand in order not to invoke the wrath of the coffee-nazis

Pour the milk, with feelings of immense surprise as to how it always comes out best when I pay the least attention to it

Suddenly towards the end of the pour decide to attempt some sort of latte art flair

Experience mild feelings of regret at doing so

Sip a fantastic cup of coffee

There is no way this stupid bloody tamper could fit into this


----------



## coffeechap

Did something similar, but ended up in a lovely little italian bar and let someone else make it for me.


----------



## Neill

coffeechap said:


> Did something similar, but ended up in a lovely little italian bar and let someone else make it for me.


Hope you remembered point 2 before heading out the door.


----------



## Spazbarista

Neill said:


> Hope you remembered point 2 before heading out the door.











Guess which one is Coffeechap...


----------



## coffeechap

Must be time for that photo @mrboots2u


----------



## Phil104

What photo? That's toooooo tantalising.


----------



## DoubleShot

Phil104 said:


> What photo? That's toooooo tantalising.


The one apparently Boots has of Spazbarista!


----------



## Phil104

DoubleShot said:


> The one apparently Boots has of Spazbarista!


Ah, the one that is the photo of legend and so X-rated that there isn't a rating for it.


----------



## Clockwork

Hi Everyone, just wanted to let you know PUSH is on the way, and we haven't forgotten about you all. I could only spare Maxwell 1 PUSH for the moment, not the 3 he needs for his busy setup, but I'm sure he'll be using them in the shop again soon.

We're about to run a beta test with lots of people in the coffee industry, to make sure PUSH is as good as it can possibly be. Just a heads up though - almost all of this small batch are already spoken for, so the majority of you will be disappointed. If you really think you'd be the best person on the forum to test it, ping me a short message and we'll see what we can do. 

As for the rest of you, don't worry, we're not far off now. Interest in it has been incredible, but we've always been focused on making a quality product with no sacrifices. Despite these volumes, we're still manufacturing in the UK, and maintaining the same standards we set at the start. Thanks for all your support - we really appreciate it!


----------



## Thecatlinux

Just a thought , if we could nab one of the betas , wouldn't it be nice to have a forum raffle


----------



## jeebsy

No one else both messaging, i've got this one in the bag


----------



## Thecatlinux

With your weekend work I am sure you're a worthy contender , my few Tamps a day possible won't warrant it.

But that's not to say I wouldn't want a Beta to review , as a typical 'home wanna be barista ' .


----------



## Sk8-bizarre

jeebsy said:


> No one else both messaging, i've got this one in the bag


I sent them a pic of the tamp you sent me, a plea of help and looking for their pity.

Well I didn't but..........


----------



## jlarkin

It's OK guys, I've got it in the bag (just confirmed) no need to submit your appeals. A mod could close this thread now.

------

They're mostly new and might go for it


----------



## Sk8-bizarre

I think they may have a few pm's to work through........


----------



## jeebsy

Sk8-bizarre said:


> I think they may have a few pm's to work through........


Mine is the bestest


----------



## Sk8-bizarre

jeebsy said:


> Mine is the bestest


I can see why you testing would make sense with the stall and such so you have my backing, unless of course they want to send yourself and me one for testing at opposite ends of the spectrum









I am interested in seeing if one would solve my consistency of pressure and even more so making the flipping thing perfectly or near as damn it level on a regular basis. Looking at it, it should and well like you I suppose with the Droog it would have to be orange now....


----------



## Mrboots2u

Did anyone take up the offer of " beta testing ( buying ) this?


----------



## Thecatlinux

Mrboots2u said:


> Did anyone take up the offer of " beta testing ( buying ) this?


I asked but they had all been allocated , missed the boat


----------



## jeebsy

Yep


----------



## Mrboots2u

For once i didn't have more money than sense . I passed


----------



## jeebsy

It's what credit cards were made for


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> It's what credit cards were made for


Money laundering PayPal pal


----------



## jeebsy

Mrboots2u said:


> Money laundering PayPal pal


And this, stealing money off yourself in the future


----------



## Thecatlinux

Would be no use at the moment as I am in mutating nutation nirvana


----------



## 4085

the firm are near me and i had lengthy chat with the owner. I got the impression that he was looking for a big payday from this ands not really interested in anything else. He had just returned from Seattle and the WBCbut nothing has really happened since then. Does not interest me, and I was offered one initially but nothing ever came of it


----------



## Sk8-bizarre

I did also......it wasn't as straight forward a decision as I thought.


----------



## jeebsy

dfk41 said:


> the firm are near me and i had lengthy chat with the owner. I got the impression that he was looking for a big payday from this ands not really interested in anything else. He had just returned from Seattle and the WBCbut nothing has really happened since then. Does not interest me, and I was offered one initially but nothing ever came of it


Profit is as valid a reason as any for pursuing something, as long as it results in a good product I couldn't give a monkey's fart

I'm looking forward to trying it


----------



## 4085

jeebsy said:


> Profit is as valid a reason as any for pursuing something, as long as it results in a good product I couldn't give a monkey's fart
> 
> I'm looking forward to trying it


I hope you like it. Wonder why Maxwell has stopped supporting it......


----------



## jeebsy

dfk41 said:


> I hope you like it. Wonder why Maxwell has stopped supporting it......


Answers are in the thread


----------



## 4085

jeebsy said:


> Answers are in the thread


I mean the real answer, not the one in the thread


----------



## Sk8-bizarre

Logically and with no other reasoning it has the potential of removing two of the inconsistencies I have or suffer with. A tamp that is consistent in pressure, which if I'm honest has got better of late and it being a tamp that is level which hasn't.

We will see.


----------



## jeebsy

I'm hoping it means I can get someone else to do the mechanical grind-tamp-shot while I do milk/keep an eye on extraction and not have to worry about them arsing it up


----------



## Sk8-bizarre

and it's not me Jeebsy is on about but to be fair it could be lol


----------



## jlarkin

I took them up on the offer as well. In for a penny in for several more...


----------



## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> I mean the real answer, not the one in the thread











or possibly not........

or perhaps it just doesn't really matter


----------



## risky

So who from the forum got into the beta test? If I read clockwork's post correctly one person from here should have got in?


----------



## jlarkin

risky said:


> So who from the forum got into the beta test? If I read clockwork's post correctly one person from here should have got in?


You didn't read it correctly. Paraphrasing but he said most were already taken so that most people would be disappointed but a small number were available


----------



## jlarkin

dfk41 said:


> I hope you like it. Wonder why Maxwell has stopped supporting it......


I know he used them in a competition but is that the same as supporting them? I imagine the requirements are pretty different from a shop. Just wondering if he said he'd use them or not basically rather than we're inverting things from the absence of him using them.

I haven't checked into it, just wondered this when something similar was posted initially.


----------



## Sk8-bizarre

risky said:


> So who from the forum got into the beta test? If I read clockwork's post correctly one person from here should have got in?


It was four in all. I specifically asked Clockwork how many and who after also suggesting if i had one other should deffo have the option also in my view.

One person responded to clockwork with what I am sure all four of us were thinking and it did make me laugh and who it was but I also came very close to doing the same as them as did another person I was chatting to about it via pm before committing to it.

As I said before it wasn't as straight forward a decision or how you would generally expect to be beta 'testing' something and providing feedback.

I spent nearly two days going Hmmmm before agreeing to it but a simple as the way it works well if it doesn't do what I'm looking for I'd be surprised and well what price is one willing to pay for perfection.......

I'm not sure if the forth that was turned down was offered elsewhere as it's only Jeebsy, Jlarkin and myself who have shouted out.


----------



## bronc

Any guesses for the price when it goes retail? I'm thinking 30-40 quid.


----------



## jeebsy

Think less made by knock and more pergtamp


----------



## Milanski

Yep I was told £100 ball-park at LCF


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Has anyone tried these? I'm in the cynical camp still.


----------



## jeebsy

Three or four of us are getting some this month, me included. Will be posting plenty once i get it.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Nice one, look forward to your findings. Will be good to hear how it compares to the Perg tamp or Torr.


----------



## Phil104

Or given the PUSH button like appearance, the Londinium tamper.


----------



## garydyke1

I like the idea of enforced standardisation of tamping. always level and always the same depth. Remove another variable. Great for a shop with multiple baristas.


----------



## bronc

Here is a tamper with a similar concept: https://www.thegreatleveller.com.au/


----------



## Sk8-bizarre

garydyke1 said:


> I like the idea of enforced standardisation of tamping. always level and always the same depth. Remove another variable. Great for a shop with multiple baristas.


Or me haha exactly the reason it interests me, reduction in variables.



Phil104 said:


> Or given the PUSH button like appearance, the Londinium tamper.


Something I nearly bought as a first tamper.

My Torr won't be going anywhere though as I like it. Be using that for the larger basket and splits, the Push will be for my 18g shot as I don't want to be chopping and changing level basket to basket.


----------



## Dallah

At £100 I would far rather have a Torr as while these push tampers look to be a good thing I think they are fugly looking. I signed up for early access and heard nothing back. It sounds like its going to be MBK service with Torr pricing. Not a great combo.


----------



## jeebsy

ridland said:


> It sounds like its going to be MBK service with Torr pricing. Not a great combo.


I reckon they would have got loads of messages about early access so getting back to everyone might not have been practical, but my experience with clockwork has been good so far. Comparisons with knock are unfair.


----------



## jeebsy

If you make coffee in the house and know you can tamp well then this probably isn't going to be worth the money, but for a shop where you have to trust someone else with the tamping I reckon it'll be invaluable. Even with grinder with good distribution and a consistent timer and a good machine, the tamp is the point in the process things can go wrong and quality is compromised. This might solve that


----------



## urbanbumpkin

garydyke1 said:


> I like the idea of enforced standardisation of tamping. always level and always the same depth. Remove another variable. Great for a shop with multiple baristas.


Completely agree, but isn't the compression of the grinds going to differ depending on how fine or coarse its ground?


----------



## garydyke1

urbanbumpkin said:


> Completely agree, but isn't the compression of the grinds going to differ depending on how fine or coarse its ground?


Fractionally . But the dialling in is done , the tamper is adjusted easily . Headspace is always constant - Variances between barista is huge .


----------



## urbanbumpkin

garydyke1 said:


> Fractionally . But the dialling in is done , the tamper is adjusted easily . Headspace is always constant - Variances between barista is huge .


Aha. That makes more sense, I only watched the clip. I've just re-read the details on it, I didn't realise the depth could be adjusted on it.

Ok....there could be something in this.


----------



## Sk8-bizarre

garydyke1 said:


> Headspace is always constant


Hmmmmm this has made me think a little. Head heights should change very little over all then regardless of grind and even bean to bean as if you are putting in for instance 18g then the bean type be it large, small, light, dark etc once ground should compress to about the same depth as end ground weight is the same regardless.

I can't believe I never even thought about that before, total duh!! Have had my head all focused on pressure. The depth being the same near as damn it every time due to the weight being so never even crossed my mind......Sometimes it's the simplest things haha pffft


----------



## garydyke1

Try fitting 19.5g of pacamara in an 18g VST basket


----------



## Sk8-bizarre

Good then it doesn't! Cause that's not what I was finding bean to bean, phew.

As for the Pacamara well that was one I was cutting back to 17g in my 18g basket due to it trying to choke the machine and or swell and making the PF turn/undo.


----------



## AussieEx

jeebsy said:


> If you make coffee in the house and know you can tamp well then this probably isn't going to be worth the money, but for a shop where you have to trust someone else with the tamping I reckon it'll be invaluable.


In a shop you should pay someone who you know can tamp, dose, pull, steam and pour, (and as a bonus have a good yarn with the customer about the particular beans etc if that's what they want), rather than the trained monkey approach. If you can't trust your staff to tamp then buy a b2c, pay a teenager minimum wage, and target a different customer base I reckon...


----------



## jeebsy

Nah. Make it easy as possible. If there's the ability to tamp in a way that removes the risk of the operator doing it wrong i'm all for for it. It removes variations between individual baristas too, regardless of how skilled they are. A skilled barista should be able to make a good shot without stuff like volumetrics/gravimetrics but they're great for consistency which is the goal.

I can't pay the couple of people who help me out from time to time (apart from in coffee) and they aren't skilled tampers. Three hours a fortnight isn't really enough for them to develop the muscle memory to get it consistently right to the point where I don't occasionally worry how that shot might come out. They take orders and do shots, i do milk and chat where required. Division of labour.

Just because tampers have been made in a way that makes it a bit tricky doesn't mean it's always got to be that way. Do you eschew improvements in other areas of your life too?


----------



## Dallah

What about that Macap mechanical tamper that is being introduced into a lot of the Cafe Nero. I spoke to a barista in one of those, someone who knew what he was doing, well enough to be a better than average Nero barista. He said it tamped to the same pressure every time and was helping them to eliminate sink shots. I think Coffee Omega stock it for about £200.


----------



## garydyke1

ridland said:


> What about that Macap mechanical tamper that is being introduced into a lot of the Cafe Nero. I spoke to a barista in one of those, someone who knew what he was doing, well enough to be a better than average Nero barista. He said it tamped to the same pressure every time and was helping them to eliminate sink shots. I think Coffee Omega stock it for about £200.


You could get 2, possibly 3 PUSHs for that + they are mobile


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> You could get 2, possibly 3 PUSHs for that + they are mobile


You certainly couldn't get 3 push , possibly not even 2


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> You certainly couldn't get 3 push , possibly not even 2


Im sure the wholesale prices which shops pay are a different kettle of fish to published RRPs


----------



## jeebsy

ridland said:


> What about that Macap mechanical tamper that is being introduced into a lot of the Cafe Nero. I spoke to a barista in one of those, someone who knew what he was doing, well enough to be a better than average Nero barista. He said it tamped to the same pressure every time and was helping them to eliminate sink shots. I think Coffee Omega stock it for about £200.


The puqpress? They're 300+vat. Says they come in custom sizes but can only see 53 and 58 available


----------



## jeebsy

Mrboots2u said:


> You certainly couldn't get 3 push , possibly not even 2


Almost three


----------



## AussieEx

Cafe Nero, Costa etc are an entirely different proposition for such a product. I wouldn't call their baristas trained monkeys, but their business model is a trained monkey business model - remove as much human skill as possible. Thats not what I want from specialty coffee. Consistency is a good thing, to a point. I mean, if all we wanted was consistency then Illy or <ahem> Nespresso do that.</ahem>

I'd prefer some artisanal inconsistency, just like you get with a live band or a great chef.


----------



## jeebsy

For me the skill is fine tuning the recipe and checking extraction to get the best out the bean, making any grind adjustments. The rest can be automated - see black eagle


----------



## forzajuve

Interesting that tampers are being pushed towards automation yet distribution gets overlooked. From my (admittedly limited) experience distribution makes a big difference to evenness of extraction and is much harder to get consistent than tamping. So how might you automate distribution? Essentially are we just trying to create a level bed prior to tamping, which in turn should help increase tamping consistency. Something like a vibration plate as an example?

Anyway off topic. I will be interested to see how this performs and the amount of adjustment that is required. Presumably it is dialled into a bean/blend with a set density so then volume is controlled by weight output, theoretically meaning that once dialled in by weight at the grinder, the tamper is set and wouldn't need adjustments with grind?


----------



## DoubleShot

Latest update via email.

We've got some PUSH news

We're sorry if we've been a bit quiet recently - we've been working super hard on getting ready to launch PUSH.

We know how frustrating it can be to pre-order a product and then it be delayed with manufacturing problems. That's why we wanted to make sure any problems were found and solved before we take orders from you all.

We've been making a small batch of beta editions, which are going out to a handful of people around the world who have all agreed to test them thoroughly and provide us with lots of feedback. This includes boffins, experts, ex-world barista champions, hobbyists, roasters, baristas, barista trainers and many more. Put simply, if there's a way PUSH could be any better,we want to know about it, so we can make your tamper as good as possible. There might be a few spots left for beta testers, but we'll announce how to get one of them in a future email.

In the mean time, help us out by telling us what your favourite tamper colour is here.

Thanks for your patience. We're really excited to put a PUSH in your hands very soon.

Best,

Pete & Team Clockwork


----------



## jlarkin

The PUSH tamper beta edition is supposed to be arriving any day for those who had signed up for it...which I know is me and Jeebsy and perhaps somebody else on here? Oooh exciting...


----------



## jeebsy

They missed post yesterday for delivery today, but the guy is coming to the festival tomorrow and apparently bringing mine with him


----------



## jlarkin

Cool, that's genuinely exciting then! Sounds like him and MBK could have a chat about delivery of promises etc. :-D


----------



## jeebsy

I will believe it when I have my hands on it.


----------



## jlarkin

Yes exactly! Although my indiegogo backed ROK hand grinder literally just arrived, so I'm starting to feel a little positive towards these sorts of things again


----------



## Thecatlinux

jeebsy said:


> I will believe it when I have my hands on it.


don't forget to post pictures


----------



## jeebsy

Well me of little faith - I emailed this morning to say if it was being hand delivered could I have a refund of postage costs, and I just got an email confirming postage had been refunded and that Pete's train was getting in at 9.20 tomorrow and he'd see me at the festival.


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> Well me of little faith - I emailed this morning to say if it was being hand delivered could I have a refund of postage costs, and I just got an email confirming postage had been refunded and that Pete's train was getting in at 9.20 tomorrow and he'd see me at the festival.


----------



## jeebsy

>


----------



## Mrboots2u

Think you'll get to say hello to his little friend tomorrow


----------



## jlarkin

Mrboots2u said:


> Think you'll get to say hello to his little friend tomorrow


In an effort to get more Pushes out of him, perhaps?


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Well me of little faith - I emailed this morning to say if it was being hand delivered could I have a refund of postage costs, and I just got an email confirming postage had been refunded and that Pete's train was getting in at 9.20 tomorrow and he'd see me at the festival.


Looks like you might get No1!










__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/655129052559331330


----------



## jeebsy

I take it all back


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/655132785607315460


----------



## Thecatlinux

Xpenno said:


> Looks like you might get No1!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/655129052559331330


 @jeebsy , you chancy git


----------



## jeebsy




----------



## Mrboots2u

Did salt and pepper come with it . Want a 10 second clip or won't believe it works


----------



## coffeechap

Nice enjoy the lever dude


----------



## DoubleShot

Niice one. Número uno! 

Starting to feel I should have popped my name down to be a beta tester. Just wasn't sure how much detailed analysis I'd be able to offer as feedback so didn't bother.


----------



## Mrboots2u

DoubleShot said:


> Niice one. Número uno!
> 
> Starting to feel I should have popped my name down to be a beta tester. Just wasn't sure how much detailed analysis I'd be able to offer as feedback so didn't bother.


Does it tamp level

Yea / no


----------



## DoubleShot

Good one boots! 

Now, why didn't I think like that, lol!


----------



## Thecatlinux

Mrboots2u said:


> Does it tamp level
> 
> Yea / no


Are you a trouble maker ?

yes/no


----------



## Mrboots2u

Thecatlinux said:


> Are you a trouble maker ?
> 
> yes/no


Yes


----------



## DoubleShot

@jeebsy

Was it worth the wait? How did it perform? Too early to say this will be your new first choice go to tamper?


----------



## jeebsy

Lee from Foundry loved it, it's dead simple to use, push with your palm and you've for a completely level tamp that's sealed right to the edge.

You've got to be quite careful taking it out, i got a couple of fissures on the top of the puck which can only assume was doing to vacuum caused by removing it incorrectly but they got fewer as the day went on and when we checked the extraction it didn't really seem to affect it.

Very promising.


----------



## DoubleShot

How fiddly is it to adjust/set to a required dose straight out of the box, say you want a 18g dose? From the photos I see there's some kind of adjustment screw that presumably you use an allen key to adjust?


----------



## Daren

Diplomatic answer Jeebs?


----------



## jeebsy

We were doing 15g doses yesterday, and I use 20 at home so this is the first tamp and adjustment:






Little bit of crap left on the top of the bed but think this is a user issue - Lee an Callum didn't have any problems yesterday.


----------



## jeebsy

Today I enjoyed using the Push tamper about 10x more.


----------



## doolallysquiff

As it has now been well used, I'll give you a fiver for it. Posted that is.


----------



## Sk8-bizarre

You have lovely hands. I like the colour (of the PUSH not your hands, but they are still lovely).

Looks like the logical bits in my head that should work do.

My hands are old and dry and cracked. It's a good job it was yours in the video.


----------



## Daren

Sk8-bizarre said:


> You have lovely hands. I like the colour (of the PUSH not your hands, but they are still lovely).
> 
> Looks like the logical bits in my head that should work do.
> 
> My hands are old and dry and cracked. It's a good job it was yours in the video.


Far too 50 shades - get a room


----------



## hotmetal

50 shades of orange? From 'FT' to 'Tango' via 'David Dickinson off that antiques programme' with 42 intermediate shades. Well worthy of a trilogy and a film.


----------



## jeebsy

Other beta models going out the post today


----------



## jlarkin

Today is a big day...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D11Nyzq1n0&t=0m57s

*assuming no delivery issues etc*


----------



## jeebsy

Loving mine loads now. Haven't picked up my other tamper all week.


----------



## risky

What kind of price were they talking about for a production model again?


----------



## jeebsy

risky said:


> What kind of price were they talking about for a production model again?


Hasn't been mentioned yet


----------



## jlarkin

it's arrived. Won't have much time to play today but whipped it out (the tamper, cheeky!) and it seems really nice. Had one try and it's satisfyingly weighty in the hand. It's nice and easy to change, as Jeebsy's vid showed and I'm looking forward to getting more use out of it over the weekend. Happy!


----------



## jlarkin

p.s. ultra low friction - like this vid:


----------



## jeebsy

jlarkin said:


> it's arrived. Won't have much time to play today but whipped it out (the tamper, cheeky!) and it seems really nice. Had one try and it's satisfyingly weighty in the hand. It's nice and easy to change, as Jeebsy's vid showed and I'm looking forward to getting more use out of it over the weekend. Happy!


What colour? Give us some pics


----------



## jlarkin

jeebsy said:


> What colour? Give us some pics


Dis one


----------



## Phil104

That's a very elegant black&#8230; it could be the new orange.


----------



## jeebsy

How are you getting on, @jlarkin?


----------



## jlarkin

jeebsy said:


> How are you getting on, @jlarkin?


Very well! It's something I'll definitely keep and continue to use. The adjustment is very easy and it just takes any guess work out of the tamp, IMO. I haven't had any occasions where it fractured or visibly sucked the puck. I'm very happy with it. Are you still enjoying it?


----------



## Rhys

jlarkin said:


> it's arrived. Won't have much time to play today but whipped it out (the tamper, cheeky!) and it seems really nice. Had one try and it's satisfyingly weighty in the hand. It's nice and easy to change, as Jeebsy's vid showed and I'm looking forward to getting more use out of it over the weekend. Happy!





jlarkin said:


> jlarkin processing...* Too many potential innuendos, total reboot initiated *


Touché mon amie


----------



## jeebsy

jlarkin said:


> Very well! It's something I'll definitely keep and continue to use. The adjustment is very easy and it just takes any guess work out of the tamp, IMO. I haven't had any occasions where it fractured or visibly sucked the puck. I'm very happy with it. Are you still enjoying it?


Very much so. As someone who chops and changes beans all the time it can be slightly annoying when you get a bean that sits 'higher' and the lip doesn't quite make the basket or one that sits lower and the tamp is a bit light but that's a minor thing.


----------



## foundrycoffeeroasters.com

I just wish they'd get these out! Il be down for a couple as soon as they do.


----------



## DoubleShot

Any more news of when this might be available to the masses (aka us mere mortals!)?


----------



## jlarkin

As a Beta tester I've heard nothing since it was sent to me either in terms of future release info or anything else.


----------



## jeebsy

Pete said he's going to do a feedback survey of the beta testers before moving to production but not sure when that will be.


----------



## DoubleShot

Sounds like it'll be some time yet?! 

Might just have to pull the trigger on a Pergtamp in the meantime...


----------



## foundrycoffeeroasters.com

You could do a lot worse. The Perg is our roastery tamper at the moment and it's great to use.


----------



## DoubleShot

Do you stock or can you source them?


----------



## jeebsy

DoubleShot said:


> Do you stock or can you source them?


http://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/pergtamp


----------



## Mousey

Hi, anyone know when will push tamper be available for sales to public?


----------



## risky

Mousey said:


> Hi, anyone know when will push tamper be available for sales to public?


There was rumour of sale units for the London coffee festival but I'm not sure if that's still the case.


----------



## Phil104

risky said:


> There was rumour of sale units for the London coffee festival but I'm not sure if that's still the case.


I'm not sure if that is a reason to go - I had half an idea that I wouldn't go there to spend much money this year. It would be good to see it in action though rather than vicariously through jeebsy's road testing.


----------



## Dallah

The supply of PUSH beta units is completely exhausted now. So going to LCF to snag one isn't going to work


----------



## Mousey

I message Pete about 2 weeks ago, he says that he hope to open a pre-order in the next couple of weeks. Hope we don't have to wait too long


----------



## Mrboots2u

Mousey said:


> I message Pete about 2 weeks ago, he says that he hope to open a pre-order in the next couple of weeks. Hope we don't have to wait too long


Fingers crossed .. I think we have been here before tho ( @jeebsy )


----------



## MarkyP

I'm hoping to pick one of these up when the pre-order starts up, to see what all the fuss is about!


----------



## Blackstone

Preorder has started


----------



## bronc

That price tho..


----------



## Flibster

Damn.... £150 including delivery.

Yeah... I'm out.


----------



## DoubleShot

One word...DEAR! 

*Wishes he applied to be a beta tester now!*


----------



## jeebsy

DoubleShot said:


> One word...DEAR!
> 
> *Wishes he applied to be a beta tester now!*


Beta testers still had to buy them.


----------



## DoubleShot

Oh, what?  Didn't realise that!


----------



## Yes Row

Yeah right £10 delivery

I'm out aswell


----------



## malling

Taken into consideration what I paid for a Torr TI, I can't say the price is unreasonable. It is only £30 more, so not something that scares me away from purchasing one, especially not if this improves upon consistency.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## coffeechap

Really? It's £50 more than a ti torr


----------



## 4085

It is overpriced by a long way.It is also seriously disappointing for those who have waited and waited and waited a bit more, for this to come out in such a manner. Whilst I hope this does well, I cannot see it happening from forum members. Perhaps the wider Barista community will take to it. Would @jeebsy having used it, buy it at that price, not to use on your commercial stall but as a home user?


----------



## Nod

Don't solve problems of inconsistent/imperfect distribution either... Which I think is more of an issue than tamp...


----------



## Brewster

A shame really, massively overpriced, I'll wait for a competitor to come out with one under £100...


----------



## Drewster

jeebsy said:


> Beta testers still had to buy them.


At 150 squids?

(or £129-sh I've just seen on t'web)

NB: I don't really care/want to know how much you paid..... just that £129-£150 is an awful lot!


----------



## Phil104

foundrycoffeeroasters.com said:


> I just wish they'd get these out! Il be down for a couple as soon as they do.


Still in for two?


----------



## malling

For someone who happily splashed out almost 10x the amount on a grinder and an equally amount on a machine it is a relatively small investment.

I really don't see much difference between this a Torr Ti, Pergertamp or Mahlgut all of them are listed at £100+

All of these special fit, sharped edge/ flat bottom tampers are high end luxury items, and I don't think many who has bought any of the others are getting scared away from a PUSH when it eventually or hopefully hit the shelfs around the globe.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## malling

I have seen allot of geeks spending an equal amount on steam tips, shiny or wooden knock boxes, custom wood

And people also spend a substantial amount on fancy pithers, demitasse, precision screens and other gadgets that dosen't improve a thing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jeebsy

dfk41 said:


> Would @jeebsy having used it, buy it at that price, not to use on your commercial stall but as a home user?


I had to use an old fashioned tamper for a week when I lent Boots my PUSH to try...it was not an experience I want to repeat soon. £150 is a lot of money but it really makes life so simple.



Drewster said:


> At 150 squids?
> 
> (or £129-sh I've just seen on t'web)


That was the ballpark


----------



## jeebsy

Phil104 said:


> Still in for two?




__
http://instagr.am/p/BChkCfqCLKC/


----------



## Phil104

jeebsy said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BChkCfqCLKC/


 That's just a picture of yours isn't it?


----------



## jeebsy

Phil104 said:


> That's just a picture of yours isn't it?


That's Foundry's. We have matching orange ones.


----------



## Daren

jeebsy said:


> That's Foundry's. We have matching orange ones.


Arrr - fwends....


----------



## DoubleShot

Starting to wonder now if I should have purchased either the Mahlgut equivalent or Pergtamp that both recently appeared in the for sale section here!

For some reason, I 'expected' this to come in at around the £70 to £80 mark. Wishful thinking, I know. Lol! 

Disappointed, doesn't even start to cover it!


----------



## jeebsy

Daren said:


> Arrr - fwends....


Besties

  P1040978 by wjheenan, on Flickr


----------



## Daren

jeebsy said:


> Besties
> 
> P1040978 by wjheenan, on Flickr


Where's Callum?


----------



## NickdeBug

Received an email inviting me to pre-order one of the 250 special numbered PUsh tampers for £139.

er, no thank you

I used to think that was a lot of money for a grinder!


----------



## PPapa

Daren said:


> Where's Callum?












FTFY


----------



## DoubleShot

NickdeBug said:


> Received an email inviting me to pre-order one of the 250 special numbered PUsh tampers for £139


Question is...how many do you order, lol!


----------



## bongo

so as per one of my previous posts. all this stuff can be ordered from china cheap as chips.

near any manufacturer there can replicate the push, and probably for pence.

the last 2 tampers I ordered came to about £30 inc postage (came to about £10 if i wanted to order a batch). Made to measure, and checked with home calipers.... it's beyond me why given the market, this site doesn't invest in it's own. Buy 100-200, 58.5 and other common sizes (or what ever a poll suggests as most popular) and help raise funds to support it.

Push is a bit different in design admittedly... but it'd also be a pain in the ass to adjust each change of grind size etc... ITS ANOTHER UN_NEEDED ADJUSTMENT... run for your lives!!!


----------



## Mrboots2u

Bongo have you used a push ?


----------



## 4085

I have a Mahlgut, and have never used it....hope that helps


----------



## DoubleShot

dfk41 said:


> I have a Mahlgut, and have never used it....hope that helps


Pop it in the post and I'll happily test drive it for ya!


----------



## Jason1wood

dfk41 said:


> I have a Mahlgut, and have never used it....hope that helps


Got my name all over it.


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## Mrboots2u

DoubleShot said:


> Pop it in the post and I'll happily test drive it for ya!


it's about as much to post as it is to buy,.......


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## DoubleShot

Yeah, read that they're HEAVY! Shouda/woulda bought aphelion's had I known PUSH would cost around 50% more than what he ended up selling his for including postage!


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## Phil104

DoubleShot said:


> Yeah, read that they're HEAVY! Shouda/woulda bought aphelion's had I known PUSH would cost around 50% more than what he ended up selling his for including postage!


 It would have been a gamble as I recall because of the diameter of it and if it would fit in a VST.


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## DoubleShot

So...I dodged a possible bullet? 

Phew! Takes a *sigh*'of relief!


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## jeebsy

Phil104 said:


> It would have been a gamble as I recall because of the diameter of it and if it would fit in a VST.


Production PUSH is 58.5mm so shouldn't be any issues with that


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## malling

For most VST yes it shouldn't be a problem, but there has been reports that 58,5-58,6 got stuck in the baskets

That said I have no problems with my Torr Ti 58,55mm

And yes lets just replicate every european invention with a little help from a Chinese favtory - and see how it goes - sounds like a great plan!


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## jeebsy

My 58.65 PUSH got stuck in two baskets. Was fine in all the others I tried. No issues with 58.55 Torr and Pergtamp so don't expect any problems at 58.5


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## bongo

Mrboots2u said:


> Bongo have you used a push ?


i invented it... told some bloke in a pub about it a while back... now he's selling them... cheeky bugger!

2 bits of cheaply machined metal, v pretty colours... £130 + £10 post... I'll take 3 please.... he called it push, which was more PC and shorter than the name i used..."crap pusher"

what makes me feel better is that i wasn't one of the three original apple owners who sold his shares.... though imagine if push went digital... not only even level but if it said how much pressure was being applied... "PUSH MK 2"

or

"I push crap 2"


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## 4085

Oh,the humour this place at times is really good......as long as no one takes it seriously, which unfortunately will not happen!Come on then, lets have a disclosure list of who has bought them. Not interested in nearly bought, just actual......and, who is going to be first to find the Chinese company Glenn referred to last week!


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## jeebsy

Pergtamp is £100, Torrs are £95ish, there's a bit of extra design and engineering in the PUSH so it costs a bit more.

If you don't think it's worth it bore off and buy a Motta


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## 4085

jeebsy said:


> Pergtamp is £100, Torrs are £95ish, there's a bit of extra design and engineering in the PUSH so it costs a bit more.
> 
> If you don't think it's worth it bore off and buy a Motta


Why would you use a jug to tamp coffee?


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## jeebsy

dfk41 said:


> Why would you use a jug to tamp coffee?


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motta-Tamper-Flat-Wooden-Handle/dp/B003ICKH3M


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## 4085

jeebsy said:


> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motta-Tamper-Flat-Wooden-Handle/dp/B003ICKH3M


I ma not sure whether to tell youI was just kidding, or thank you for the link!


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## jeebsy

dfk41 said:


> I ma not sure whether to tell youI was just kidding, or thank you for the link!


Suspected you might have been but can never be sure...


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## orphanespresso

I think that most coffee gear makers recognize the growing lack of respect for intellectual property these days for manufactured objects..particularly if the item can be made by CNC machining. But I do want to take a moment to address a seeming misconception referencing China or Chinese knockoffs.....

Orphan Espresso has come up with quite a few ideas over the last decade or so and our products have been adapted into identical or similar products, with no recognition and certainly no compensation ( read ripped off). Espresso dosing funnels and cylinders, pour over brew stands, manual grinders, Compak mini hopper, even our entire espresso parts business model....and none of our admirers, so far, have been Chinese companies or individuals.

Our $10K cost to patent our latest whiz bang idea will have to be passed on to the consumer as the get in first, make your money, and move on model does not hold up well in today's coffee gear market/environment, particularly if any long term investment or slow return on investment is involved. Even a patent does not deter a copy cat ( refer to the OCD, whch claims a patent, now available from a German company) but most distressing is supporting the copy cat because their take on the idea is more economical. I don't want to step on any toes (bad for business), but there is certainly a lot of smarmy behaviour in an area defined by "I just want a good cup of coffee".

Just sayin'.


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## malling

I agree in principle, that we should be supporting those who invent, the small companies, and stretch us a long way to purchase the original product, instead of some cheep replica.

That said, there is one barrier, and that is VAT and customs duties.

This should not be neglected, as it can be quite expensive to import goods from America after VAT and import duties has been added.

In fact it can become so expensive, that it exceeds the products real value. And not many people are willingly to pay an overprice, when they can get a similar product at a price closer to it's real value.

And we should not forget that innovation almost always build on existing products and ideas. People rarely invent something out of the blue sky.

And personally I'm not a big fan of patent

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NickdeBug

malling said:


> And personally I'm not a big fan of patent
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


no patent = no innovation

What business in their right mind will be the first to step up to the plate and spend all the money required to take a novel product to market, knowing full well that others will just ride their coattails and undercut them?


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## malling

There where innovation long before patent came into play.

And there are many products launched every year that isn't patented.

patent is always down to coast benefit analysis, especially if one need to get these in different countries/regions. It is extremely expensive procedure to get a patent and equally expensive to upheld it. It is not something you just do.

And there is also allot of issues that relates to patents. It is simply not all positives and is not always in the interest of the common people or small companies.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NickdeBug

malling said:


> There where innovation long before patent came into play....
> 
> ....And there is also allot of issues that relates to patents.


it used to be much cheaper to get a product to market

I quite agree on the issues. I am listed as the inventor on 18 separate patents. The week after next I am having to take holiday to attend an arbitration in London on one of them for a company that I don't even work for any more!


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## Drewster

jeebsy said:


> Suspected you might have been but can never be sure...


I'd always tend towards "Yes"...... and take the hit when he isn't (and bites hard  )


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## PPapa

orphanespresso said:


> I think that most coffee gear makers recognize the growing lack of respect for intellectual property these days for manufactured objects..particularly if the item can be made by CNC machining. But I do want to take a moment to address a seeming misconception referencing China or Chinese knockoffs.....
> 
> Orphan Espresso has come up with quite a few ideas over the last decade or so and our products have been adapted into identical or similar products, with no recognition and certainly no compensation ( read ripped off). Espresso dosing funnels and cylinders, pour over brew stands, manual grinders, Compak mini hopper, even our entire espresso parts business model....and none of our admirers, so far, have been Chinese companies or individuals.
> 
> Our $10K cost to patent our latest whiz bang idea will have to be passed on to the consumer as the get in first, make your money, and move on model does not hold up well in today's coffee gear market/environment, particularly if any long term investment or slow return on investment is involved. Even a patent does not deter a copy cat ( refer to the OCD, whch claims a patent, now available from a German company) but most distressing is supporting the copy cat because their take on the idea is more economical. I don't want to step on any toes (bad for business), but there is certainly a lot of smarmy behaviour in an area defined by "I just want a good cup of coffee".
> 
> Just sayin'.


I think most people would think that buying from a respectable manufacturer would ensure proper customer support. However, replying to the initial email 75 days later (and 2 reminding emails!) isn't what I would expect from a reputable company.

If you don't get the after-sales support, what's the difference between a knock off and an original item?


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## Toby-IOM

PPapa said:


> I think most people would think that buying from a respectable manufacturer would ensure proper customer support. However, replying to the initial email 75 days later (and 2 reminding emails!) isn't what I would expect from a reputable company.
> 
> If you don't get the after-sales support, what's the difference between a knock off and an original item?


In the above situation, I would take the £10 knock-off anyday.


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## PPapa

Toby-IOM said:


> In the above situation, I would take the £10 knock-off anyday.


Well, the scenario described above was my experience with Orphan Espresso.

I remember reading this thread on HB some months ago:



> I suppose that I, as one of the principles of Orphan Espresso, should view imitation as a some form of flattery, but I must protest. I, Doug Garrott, came up with the term "Popper- Stopper" as applied to a manual coffee grinder hopper cover over 4 years ago in a moment of creative inspiration and although we did not register trademark the term, which at the time, and even now, seems ludicrous, it seems that other coffee kit manufacturers could flex their own creative faculties and come up with their own names for their own stuff and not just casually rip off other people.
> 
> We have not granted permission for Peter or anyone else to use this or any other of the names we have applied to any of our products or parts of products and a name as ludicrous as popper stopper can't really be argued as being a generic term or anything more than an obvious rip off.
> 
> With righteous indignation,
> 
> Doug Garrott
> 
> Naming Specialist
> 
> Orphan Espresso


How ridiculous is that...


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## jeebsy

20160410_112317 by wjheenan, on Flickr


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## PPapa

jeebsy said:


> 20160410_112317 by wjheenan, on Flickr


I thought relevant replies to the thread were not allowed.

Looks great by the way.


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## Daren

Mmmmm caayyyk

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## bongo

Whst were the ukBc results?

all sites seem to either be down or simply hsvent been updated going by my browse thst AM

back to patents... I hate them. They hold back technology and limit progress. In the drugs world, if patents were abolished we'd be so much further ahead if manufacturers of drugs focussed on helping rather than profit....

goes all the way to apple v samsung on rounded corners on phones....

but im more interested in the ukbc results tbh


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## PPapa

bongo said:


> Whst were the ukBc results?
> 
> all sites seem to either be down or simply hsvent been updated going by my browse thst AM
> 
> back to patents... I hate them. They hold back technology and limit progress. In the drugs world, if patents were abolished we'd be so much further ahead if manufacturers of drugs focussed on helping rather than profit....
> 
> goes all the way to apple v samsung on rounded corners on phones....
> 
> but im more interested in the ukbc results tbh


Do you believe one is going to put a lot of money and effort into the R&D if someone is going to copy that next day?

I don't think there would be so much drive into innovation if we didn't have patents, but it also goes over the top...


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## jeebsy

bongo said:


> Whst were the ukBc results?
> 
> all sites seem to either be down or simply hsvent been updated going by my browse thst AM
> 
> but im more interested in the ukbc results tbh


Not in the PUSH thread. Try here http://sprudgelive.com/


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## bongo

Cheers... I knew someone on this thread would have the answers!

Didn't want to 'push' my luck too far though


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## jlarkin

bongo said:


> back to patents... I hate them. They hold back technology and limit progress. In the drugs world, if patents were abolished we'd be so much further ahead if manufacturers of drugs focussed on helping rather than profit....


A completely different question, but who is going to spend millions to do the regulatory enforced research, if they can't even turn a profit on it afterwards. Some drugs companies make crazy profits - as do so many other large corporates - but it is always a gamble on the research they do or increasingly the small company they buy

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## bronc

jeebsy said:


> 20160410_112317 by wjheenan, on Flickr


Those look delicious. What are they?


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## 4085

jlarkin said:


> A completely different question, but who is going to spend millions to do the regulatory enforced research, if they can't even turn a profit on it afterwards. Some drugs companies make crazy profits - as do so many other large corporates - but it is always a gamble on the research they do or increasingly the small company they buy
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


My original invite to subscribe to pre order came on April 10th 2015.....a year is a long time to wait. perhaps this was slightly pre mature, by 11 months or so


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## jeebsy

bronc said:


> Those look delicious. What are they?


Strawberry meringues from www.bakery47.com - i do a popup there once/twice a month


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## bongo

jlarkin said:


> A completely different question, but who is going to spend millions to do the regulatory enforced research, if they can't even turn a profit on it afterwards. Some drugs companies make crazy profits - as do so many other large corporates - but it is always a gamble on the research they do or increasingly the small company they buy
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


millionairres and billionaires who loose loved ones to a disease.... the research councils funded by donation...

Money can still be made on a product, which can be re-invested in future research rather than lining the pockets of indivuals pockets. while other industries may vary, I feel quite strongly about 'health' and the BS systems that are in place....


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## michaelg

bongo said:


> millionairres and billionaires who loose loved ones to a disease.... the research councils funded by donation...
> 
> Money can still be made on a product, which can be re-invested in future research rather than lining the pockets of indivuals pockets. while other industries may vary, I feel quite strongly about 'health' and the BS systems that are in place....


I don't think you quite get the amount spent to bring drugs to market and the attrition rate through each stage of the process from finding the one molecule of 10s of 1000s synthesised that *might* make it through pre-clinical testing through phase 1-3 and eventually get marketing approval. The Ph3 study u currently manage has a budget of $45million and that isn't even at the large end either. So given most drugs never make it they have to make something back on the few that do unless the government (via more taxes) can find the shortfall.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


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## Mousey

http://www.coffeetamping.com.au/collections/5-star-pro-and-original-eazytamps/products/eazytamp-5-star-pro

https://www.thegreatleveller.com.au

Not sure if you guys already know about both the tamper above, both made in australia and cost around 60-70, my personal opinion, the 5 star pro have the best of both, level & pressure tamping, and I dont remember any tamper that could do this. BTW, the great leveller have their latest version 2 (upgraded), the whole tamper is in brushed aluminium, looks very nice and premium


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## Dallah

Mousey said:


> http://www.coffeetamping.com.au/collections/5-star-pro-and-original-eazytamps/products/eazytamp-5-star-pro
> 
> https://www.thegreatleveller.com.au
> 
> Not sure if you guys already know about both the tamper above, both made in australia and cost around 60-70, my personal opinion, the 5 star pro have the best of both, level & pressure tamping, and I dont remember any tamper that could do this. BTW, the great leveller have their latest version 2 (upgraded), the whole tamper is in brushed aluminium, looks very nice and premium


Sorry but those are both butt ugly. Like make an Espro look good kinda ugly.


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## Jon

jlarkin said:


> A completely different question, but who is going to spend millions to do the regulatory enforced research, if they can't even turn a profit on it afterwards. Some drugs companies make crazy profits - as do so many other large corporates - but it is always a gamble on the research they do or increasingly the small company they buy
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Totally agree. Look at the long development cycle, long regulatory process and associated costs then tell me that some exclusivity term is unreasonable. I don't believe it is.


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## Jon

michaelg said:


> I don't think you quite get the amount spent to bring drugs to market and the attrition rate through each stage of the process from finding the one molecule of 10s of 1000s synthesised that *might* make it through pre-clinical testing through phase 1-3 and eventually get marketing approval. The Ph3 study u currently manage has a budget of $45million and that isn't even at the large end either. So given most drugs never make it they have to make something back on the few that do unless the government (via more taxes) can find the shortfall.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


^ what he said ^


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## DoubleShot

For anyone who hasn't already seen it, Maxwell Colonna-Dashwood's WBC performance where he used a green PUSH tamper (around 11 mins 15 secs into the video).

"Let's go CRAZY for cappuccinos!" - quality quote, lol!


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## Dallah

So has anyone else placed their order? Or is it just me?


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