# How do you like your Londinium R?



## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

There seems to be a lot of love for the Londinium R on here! Nothing to do with Upgraditis or anything like that (!!!), but I'd be really interested to hear from a few of you LR owners how you like your machines. How does it compare with what you had before, in usability and more importantly the taste of coffee in your cup? Did you feel the need to upgrade your grinder?

Any comments very gratefully received. Thanks in advance.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

LI R is a step up from the original LI but only if your tastes are towards lighter roasts. The R pre-infuses at 1 bar which puts the puck under greater pressure than the original LI. Lighter roasts pose a challenge, extraction-wise, - more so than darker roasts. Darker roasts release the dissolvable elements in the coffee more easily than lighter roasts. You find yourself grinding finer with them as a consequence. Finer grind creates more resistance in the puck during extraction so a 1 bar pre-infusion aids efficient extraction. So, from a lighter roast point of view, the LI R is a step up. However, if you prefer medium plus to darker roasts, you're unlikely to see much if any benefit in the cup. So, if you are thinking of getting an LI and like medium plus roasts, I'd recommend being patient and picking up a second hand LI. Two have sold recently on the forum for £1350 and £1500 which is a big saving on the £2400 cost of an LI R.


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## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

Did anyone switch from an HX or DB machine to the LR? How do you like the change?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

From an R58 here. It felt like I'd found the right machine for me, finally.

I like everything about the L-R


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

MildredM said:


> From an R58 here. It felt like I'd found the right machine for me, finally.
> 
> I like everything about the L-R


Did you taste much of a difference Mildred?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> LI R is a step up from the original LI but only if your tastes are towards lighter roasts. The R pre-infuses at 1 bar which puts the puck under greater pressure than the original LI. Lighter roasts pose a challenge, extraction-wise, - more so than darker roasts. Darker roasts release the dissolvable elements in the coffee more easily than lighter roasts. You find yourself grinding finer with them as a consequence. Finer grind creates more resistance in the puck during extraction so a 1 bar pre-infusion aids efficient extraction. So, from a lighter roast point of view, the LI R is a step up. However, if you prefer medium plus to darker roasts, you're unlikely to see much if any benefit in the cup. So, if you are thinking of getting an LI and like medium plus roasts, I'd recommend being patient and picking up a second hand LI. Two have sold recently on the forum for £1350 and £1500 which is a big saving on the £2400 cost of an LI R.


Think you will find the preinfusion is at 3bar Patrick, unless you have turned yours down!


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## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Did you taste much of a difference Mildred?


Yes, I was going to ask the same. The likes of the Rocket (along with ECM Sync - OK and the Vesuvius) and the LR are my aspirational machines. Did you ever miss the Rocket? (They are all beautiful shiny machines.)


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Thinking of of buying said machine?


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## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

Yes, but at quite early stages (justifying to self - life's too short etc!).


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Yep it is to be without a lever,haha Stage 1 on his website every day, Stage 2 It's in your Basket, Stage 3, W/GF What we eating for the next 3 months!!!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Think you will find the preinfusion is at 3bar Patrick, unless you have turned yours down!


Cheers Chap - thanks for pointing it out.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Banjoman said:


> Yes, I was going to ask the same. The likes of the Rocket (along with ECM Sync - OK and the Vesuvius) and the LR are my aspirational machines. Did you ever miss the Rocket? (They are all beautiful shiny machines.)


I didn't ever miss the Rocket, no. I enjoyed it but the L-R is in another class, imo. The taste . . . Yes, it is so much better (I'm hopeless at describing this). We seemed to nail it right from the start. It just seems to bring the best out of everything we put through it. If a shot isn't spot on it feels intuitive what to do to make it right.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I will say this folks, the shots I get from the LR are better than from the my gs3mp!


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## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

MildredM said:


> I didn't ever miss the Rocket, no. I enjoyed it but the L-R is in another class, imo. The taste . . . Yes, it is so much better (I'm hopeless at describing this). We seemed to nail it right from the start. It just seems to bring the best out of everything we put through it. If a shot isn't spot on it feels intuitive what to do to make it right.


That's what I would call a fairly ringing endorsement! I know there will be other opinions, but it's good to hear an unequivocal vote for a machine - no fence-sitting - thank you.


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## Sparkyx (Oct 23, 2017)

I recently upgraded from a Rocket Giotto V3 to a Londinium R.

All I can say is I haven't had a single bad shot from the LR nor do I miss my Rocket.

I drink 10+ flat whites a day and the enjoyment I get from pulling the lever us unspeakable and I can't see me parting with it for a good few years. (Unless a L-II comes up for sale)


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

TEN!!! whoa boy


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## Sparkyx (Oct 23, 2017)

Jony said:


> TEN!!! whoa boy


And the rest. I need some way of functioning on 3 hours sleep a day. :')


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## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

When using the LR, are there any parameters to set at all? I gather that brew temperature as such is not adjustable and that while pre-infusion pressure can be adjusted, in practice most users will leave it fixed at 3 bar. So, you simply pull the lever and let it deliver, is that right?

Thanks again.


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## Sparkyx (Oct 23, 2017)

Banjoman said:


> When using the LR, are there any parameters to set at all? I gather that brew temperature as such is not adjustable and that while pre-infusion pressure can be adjusted, in practice most users will leave it fixed at 3 bar. So, you simply pull the lever and let it deliver, is that right?
> 
> Thanks again.


I'm currently using Coffee Compass' Mediterranean Mocha. 17g dose, light tamp and lock, pull lever down, wait for the first drip (usually 6-7 seconds) gently release the lever until you feel it catch and let the spring do the rest. I get consistent results 17g in, 34 out in 26/27 seconds.

Of course, that's the method that works best for me so other people's may vary.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

This doesn't help when making decisions, give us a bad comment anyone?haha Aldi frozen mince is not appealing.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I doubt you will find a bad word said against the L-R


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

MildredM said:


> I doubt you will find a bad word said against the L-R


That's a dam shame,haha


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Banjoman said:


> So, you simply pull the lever and let it deliver, is that right?


With levers, the mantra is grind fine, tamp light. So efficient pre-infusion is important - particularly with lighter roasts. Reiss used to recommend a 3-5 sec pre-infusion but that was with medium plus roasts and using, if I recall correctly, a 15grm basket. Things have moved on since then. My pre-infusions using an EK43 can hit 12 secs or slightly more with 2:1 extractions (17grms > 35grms out) coming in at 35 secs give or take.

Be interesting to hear how long other L1 R users are pre-infusing and running their shots.


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## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

Do any LR users adjust the pre-infusion pressure down for dark roasts? I'm not sure how this is achieved on the machine but understand it can be done. My understanding is that the pre-infusion pressure at the puck is factory-set as standard to be 3 bar, which is excellent for lighter roasts, but that it can be adjusted down to as low as 1.5 bar for darker roasts. Does anyone make this adjustment? Or alternatively, how are dark roasts at 3 bar - I guess they're still pretty good?! Thanks again.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I adjusted mine. I can't recall now how much but it is back at the original setting now. I don't find the need to adjust it nowadays.


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Banjoman said:


> Do any LR users adjust the pre-infusion pressure down for dark roasts? I'm not sure how this is achieved on the machine but understand it can be done. My understanding is that the pre-infusion pressure at the puck is factory-set as standard to be 3 bar, which is excellent for lighter roasts, but that it can be adjusted down to as low as 1.5 bar for darker roasts. Does anyone make this adjustment? Or alternatively, how are dark roasts at 3 bar - I guess they're still pretty good?! Thanks again.


Banjoman, I'm another extremely happy L-R owner. I came to Londinium via Silvia - Rocket Giotto - Quickmill Verona then the original L1

Never once have I ever regretted Londinium ownership and wished to go back to the E61 genre.

I was very pleased with the L1 and quite frankly there was no real need for me to 'upgrade' to the L-R. But it was there and I could.... so I did!

I echo most of what has already been said in praise of the L-R. As well as being nice to look at,it's satisfyingly tactile, quiet in operation bar for short periods of pump noise when filling boiler. It's so easy to keep clean and maintain, no backflushing etc and it can produce some great coffee.

I do believe that there is a degree of forgiveness in an L-R but forget the idea that you can't pull a bad shot. Obviously, it's still necessary for you to be there or thereabouts with grind, dose, distribution and shot volume.

Re adjustments: The original L-R used a CEME pressure switch to regulate pre infusion pressure. Londinium did suggest that PI pressure could easily be adjusted to suit different roast levels but this meant having to access and adjust the CEME switch. Not only is the switch hidden inside the casework but it is fitted factory sealed by the OEM and it is necessary to break this seal and likely, the OEM warranty in order to adjust the switch. Adjustments are then by quarter turn or half turn etc and see how it goes as there is no direct way to determine the actual pressure set. My machine was one of the first batch to be built and shipped with a lower than intended PI pressure so I did need to adjust mine upwards. I would imagine that most users do not feel the need to tinker. In fact I think I am right in saying that the CEME switch has been replaced with a different, more reliable, make that cannot be adjusted by the end user. In that case the current L-R now comes with a fixed PI pressure of 3bar.

You can if you wish, or maybe need to because of extreme ambient temperature, adjust the boiler pressure via the Sirai pressure switch, thereby adjusting boiler temperature. After a suitable time for the temperature to stabilise, this change is reflected in the front panel pressure gauge. Again I would doubt it necessary to be changing the factory preset, certainly not here in the UK.

I use far more medium / medium+ roasts than I do light roasts and for me it's all good.

Stop messing about man..... go order one.... you know you want to!


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## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

Snakehips said:


> Stop messing about man..... go order one.... you know you want to!


Very sage advice. How can you know me so well?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Do it, do it, do it,haha Dare you!


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

on a side note, regarding the Portaspresso I had a discussion with the maker, Ross, and he suggests, even for lighter roasts, a very gentle and long pre-infusion at 0,5 bar, his argument was that the coffee is sweeter

I usually do a 1 bar pre-infusion and the coffee is great


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