# Cold brew



## hilltopbrews

I'm thinking of getting a cold brew coffee maker but wonder what you would recommend? I've just seen the OXO cold brew coffee maker at Lakeland which looks interesting and it's at £45 which I think is expensive for plastic jug and strainer. What do you think? Otherwise, I'll just use my French press to make cold brew!

http://www.lakeland.co.uk/70584/OXO-Good-Grips-Cold-Brew-Coffee-Maker


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## samjfranklin

Try it with a french press and some v60/chemex filters first!


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## The Systemic Kid

You can pick up a Hario Mizudashi - same as Lakeland for a lot less  *here*


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## krabster

good advice above! wondering if any people have got any reliable cold brew recipes?


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## The Systemic Kid

80-90grms per litre is a good place to begin. Leave it for 24-48hrs and stir occasionally. Filter through any pour method - V60/Chemex/CCD to remove sediment. Dilute to taste.


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## samjfranklin

In a press:

60grams sand consistency coffee of choice

500ml of cold water (filtered/bottled preferred)

36 hours, stir every 6 hours where possible (and just before bed/when you wake up where every 6 hours is impossible!)

Prewash a v60/chemex filter with hot water

Plunge press and pour liquid through filter into a carafe/jug

Give it a try! Best diluted 1:2/2.5


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## smidster09

Any need to cover during storage?


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## samjfranklin

I usually pop some cling film over the top just to stop it tainting the fridge/the fridge tainting it!


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## hotmetal

Saw a guy in Hands coffee (Kingston) making cold brew in a big Kilner jar with some kind of synthetic super-fine muslin type bag. I've commandeered a suitable jar off the Hotmetalette and what may (or may not) be a similar bag thing. How coarse must I grind? Who thinks my 65E will go coarse enough? Not sure what particle size I'm aiming at. French press? I saw 'sand consistency' above but matey in Hands had an EK set wide open. My bag thing that I'm hoping to use as a filter may not be that fine but I also have a newly acquired "micro dripper" which will filter a cup full at a time if the other thing lets too many fines through.


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## johnealey

I used to use a tall kilner jar (spaghetti type from the swedish furniture store for less than a fiver) using 80-90g of grinds per litre of water with a french press grind and no filtration. As an experiment this worked ok but used to use a clever (with filter) sat on top of a v60 02 on top of a smaller jar to filter it out and was a PITA, changing filter sets 2 or 3 times, as used to stir a couple of times over 48hours thus stirring up the sediment. Tried not stirring in the last 24 hours and this, with a steady decanting hand helped. Cheap way of experiencing cold brew but nothing compared to what we tasted at the Rave day that Patrick (TSK) made with a mitzudashi.

Took me till Tuesday last week ( yes, a whole 2 days) to resist a trip to buy one and picked up the brown 1200ml Hario one from Rave, which in fairness was going to ask Rob about on the day, but the queue was building and they looked a "feisty" lot behind me (all pumped up on caffeine







).

Sells for about £19 and comes with a 300g bag of "Cold Brew" which they do sell seperately. On opening the bag was gobsmacked at the size of the what can only be described as boulders, had my doubts that this was going to produce anything of merit. Grinds smell somewhat florally and just can't put my finger on where they from ( need to ask) and doubt highly the 65e is going to grind anywhere coarse enough to match this, I think they used the big Guatamala that was lurking down the bottom but to be honest think you could probably do the same with a pestle and mortar!

From the formum day picked up that Patrick was grinding quite a bit finer than this but filtering using a fair few v60 filters, so maybe this is one of the trade offs. I can't comment on the fineness of grind yet as still going got about 60g of the "cold Brew" ground left, but am going to put some Foundry rocko through it tomorrow ( Patrick: any pointers as to rough grind size greatly appreciated).

Back to the Hario Mitzudashi 80g of coffee in the filter, pour 1150ml water (filtered BWT mg2+ in my case or mineral such as waitrose essential / volvic etc) in the top following I hope the japanese instructions (!) or more correctly the pictures, fit top and in the fridge door.

Now, I completely forgot to stir the first lot over the 48hrs in teh fridge door as pretty much forgot it was there but do think the action of opening closing the door helped to move the water around, which combined with the fairly fine mesh filter, resulted in any fine sediment sitting at the bottom of the brewer. 1 filter through 1 v60 02 brought some clarity and a second just brightened it up having the colour of a well looked after real ale ( tiny haze that most publicans would be proud of).

Diluted at 1:1 with more filtered water ( neat was a bit too strong) lovely boozy smell, slightly sweet, florally and faintly fruity, wow! Ended up with about a litre of concentrate and drank that diluted over a day and a half, lovely and refreshing has replaced the late morning / lunchtime long steep Clever or V60. Even went out and bought some volvic / Ashbeck in both still and sparkling so will brew with some bottled water next; tried some concentrate with sparkling volvic very unusual, pleasant but unusual reminding me of the thread last summer about espresso shots and Tonic water over ice but without the thickness of the shot or the quinnine.

In short (pah!) the Hario Mitzudashi has really made life a lot easier and you can get it in different sizes to suit your own personal caffeine consumption. Rave only do the larger one but comes with a starter pack of Cold Brew coffee and Amazon / Bella Barista / coffeehit etc do other sizes so would say possibly so far the least faff of all coffee methods (have no doubt can fine tune the grind, stirs, type of water to reintroduce if get bored  )

Have since done 2 more using same recipe, 1 for 36 hours and 1 for 28 hours ( was going for 24 but was out) so will report back on any changes from the 48hr brew noting Hario talk about 8-12 hours brew time in the fridge.

Genuine thanks to Patrick who has shown that can be a truly surprising way of making coffee.

Hope of help

John

p.s Will try and post a picture of the grind size of the Rave Cold Brew at some point


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## hotmetal

Thanks John, that's a very helpful post. Looks like I may need to get a hand grinder then. I'll look out with interest for your (or others') pictures of suggested grind size. I may end up buying a mizudashi if the filtering becomes too onerous.


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## jamfit

samjfranklin said:


> Try it with a french press and some v60/chemex filters first!


Thats the way I might have to give that a go


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## johnealey

Any of the above methods will work from French presses to jars of coffee grinds / water and no filters and all will give you a result, some might be unimpressive some might be subtle but all it is really is coffee+water+time with the last bit probably being the most important.

Am sure I will mis spell his name (apologies in advance) but MJWB on a previous thread raised the time element; too short and can be a bit, well thin, leave it a bit longer and if you can (without disturbing the mixture too much) try a spoon full until you getting something that tastes better to you, take a note of the time then replicate.

This is slightly simplistic, as something I learnt from the Rave forum day from Patrick's session was that the brew settles out into strata with the oils naturally finding their way to the top. If you are finding this then you may want to either gently stir prior to getting a spoonfull (risk of stirring up out of sequence), stir as part of the process but get a mouth full of silt (maybe not) or take a std straight straw push any grounds away from where you going to sampleand gently push the straw in then when you got enough (not so far as you hand in, but not just below the surface) finger on end of straw and transfer over to cup taking finger off end of straw to let brew sample out which once swirled should give you a very rough mix of any layers. Not scientific and not meant to be especially if using a jar / french press etc

Hope of somehelp and I did promise to post a couple of pictures of the Rave Cold Brew (2nd one has a 2p for scale):









John


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## hotmetal

Wow! I see what you mean about coarse! I could use a hammer instead of a grinder! I made mine using 45g of grinds at the coarsest I could easily go, in one of those fine mesh things they sell for loose tea (a smaller version of the inside of a mizudashi) and 500cc water. Left it 12h and filtered it using my new Rivers micro-dripper. It came out pretty good really, the dripper pulled out most of the fines that a careful decant couldn't hold back. I'll be doing this again. Thanks for the grind pics though. Hand grinder time I think.


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## Rhys

Trying some myself now. Just ground up 60g of some supermarket 'Taylors' beans (although I've got some Whitards in the cupboard I was bought) on the Isomac. I knew it would come in useful for something.. Though I've only ground it to course sand, whereas it looks like I should open it up a lot more judging by the pics above. using a French Press and a litre of water. As this is the first time I've tried it, I'm not using my decent beans until I've got the grind/time/recipe right. It's something I can take to work and dilute with hot water - at least it should be better than instant.


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## Syenitic

I have only just started cold brewing in the last few weeks using the same French Press method as you Rhys, and actually have not tried adding hot water to it yet...simply because I love it over ice there has never been an urge to try it any other way. Delicious.


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## Rhys

Right, filtered it through some kitchen towel yesterday and tried a bit last night. Not bad..

Took a bottle of it to work today and diluted with hot water and a splash of milk. Lovely! And that was with pitiful supermarket 'Taylor's' beans. Will definitely have to make some more and get some proper filters.


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## Glasgow Al

I have the Hario and love it! Had to cut down a bit as I was having a pint of cold brew with breakfast in the morning... Was getting out of hand.


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## Fevmeister

Glasgow Al said:


> I have the Hario and love it! Had to cut down a bit as I was having a pint of cold brew with breakfast in the morning... Was getting out of hand.


I'm with you on that Al

Getting to be a bit of a problem.

Great for work though where the only other alternative is shitty instant!


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## hartshay

Tried cold brew...mm nothing special with the blends I use...better to quick chill a fresh espresso with ice and milk imho


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## Wando64

I am new to cold brewing. I have purchased the Hario jug but I am reluctant to get started until I have acquired the means to filter the results.

Can you please suggest the cheapest, but effective, way to filter?

What do I need to purchase?

Thanks


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## Fevmeister

Wando64 said:



> I am new to cold brewing. I have purchased the Hario jug but I am reluctant to get started until I have acquired the means to filter the results.
> 
> Can you please suggest the cheapest, but effective, way to filter?
> 
> What do I need to purchase?
> 
> Thanks


I have the hario and you don't need to filter the results!!

the 'mesh' in the basket/cradle is certainly fine enough to do that

i tend to do a 48 hour brew in the fridge and fill a mug/glass 4/5 full and top with water

the brew after 48 can be quite concentrated


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## The Systemic Kid

Unfiltered cold brew contains more brew colloids - fines and oils which give a more powerful mouthfeel. If you want to tone this down, run the brew through a V60. The filter paper will take out the fines making the resultant brew much clearer in appearance. The filter paper will also take out some of the oils.


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## Fevmeister

The Systemic Kid said:


> Unfiltered cold brew contains more brew colloids - fines and oils which give a more powerful mouthfeel. If you want to tone this down, run the brew through a V60. The filter paper will take out the fines making the resultant brew much clearer in appearance. The filter paper will also take out some of the oils.


or add water to dilute.....


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## hilltopbrews

I don't use hario but oxo cold brew maker. I use rave's cold brew which is very coarse and I never find the need to filter it. If I have to grind it myself, I tend to grind it finer than rave's cold brew and then use v60 to filter it. It comes out a lot clearer.


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## The Systemic Kid

Fevmeister said:


> or add water to dilute.....


Diluting doesn't remove brew colloids.


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## risky

The @Sk8-bizarre method is a triple Chemex filtering.


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## johnealey

Double filtered via v60-02 with a clean filter each time some Rave finca el bosque this evening after 36 hours in a 1300ml hario (80g at 1 full revolution lido 3 to 1100ml) .

Tried some pre filtering, slightly chewy, 1st filter, cleaner, 2nd filter, smoother. Seems to get smoother still with another 48hours.

Yes, you can try it unfiltered if the grind is very chunky and has few fines in there ( see earlier post of mine on this thread of Raves cold brew, which was ground on a big Mahlkonig I think?). But, any filter paper and something to hold it, will do wonders if you like a cleaner brew doesn't have to be a v60 (plastic ones can be had for around a fiver with a pack of filters the same) you could just buy some no 4 filters from a supermarket for a couple of quid and see if that improves it. Am sure someone earlier in this thread filtered their cold brew from a cafetiere through kitchen roll with some success.

If you have a mizudashi the a gentle removal of the filter with grounds and a steady pour will help to ensure most of the sediment remains. I do exactly this and still suprised at how much is left on the filters after a run through.

Right off to grind some Foundry Rocko Mountain for the next cold brew, coarser grind for this one and a longer steep (48+hours) really makes it pop!

John


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## Sk8-bizarre

Hmmm I think depending on your tastes will depend on how you want to filter.....

My first attempts were just some random filter papers I bought it was ok but I didn't like it as much as what I do now. I only happened to try using the Chemex as I bought one for brewing.

It's also technique aswell once it starts slowing down on filtering you may aswell change that filter paper as its because it's clogged with fines and oils (it just looks dirty and full of liquid with a Chemex filter like it should still strain which just shows how fine those filters are). This will mean multiple changes of filter paper on the first pass of the cold brew. It's all in the keeping an eye on it and learning from each attempt and then how you find it tastes when done.

I did filter one with just under a litre yield on Sunday and it took all day.

Another factor will be your recipe. I used to do about 1:8 ratio but am now at about 1:5 grind to water. I get a very clean but black brew now which is big on mouthfeel and strong but close to what in looking for as I only drink about a 3oz cup of it. I'm nearly there but not quite. I am still learning.

This was Sundays attempt at said ratio. It's clean cut clear black. Big body apple acidity with treacle sweet. Not to be served in big glasses, it's strong but lovely. I want to try with a more red fruit sweet next.


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## grumpydaddy

Want to give this a go....on the cheap..... have cafetiere, Drip machine and the filters for it. Need a recommend for beans.

Sure I'll get the right gear sometime soon but what do you think of trying with the above?


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## Sk8-bizarre

That was 235g grind to 1300g water and a yield of 925g.

I can't remember how many times through the 1-3 Chemex but as I said all day. I pour carefully also so its only fines and oils the Chemex take out no grinds go in till the very last of the first pour through. I think I used about 6-8 filters in the end I don't remember exactly.


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## Wando64

Do you keep the jug in the fridge while brewing or do you keep it at room temperature?

I am asking as I have just brewed my first lot over 24 hours, kept in the fridge throughout.

i was expecting a concentrated drink requiring dilution, instead the result is drinkable as it is. Definitely not concentrated.

By the way, as this was my first brew, I have decided to use Rave Decaf so that I could experiment with various drinks without over caffeinating.


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## The Systemic Kid

Room temp.


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## jeebsy

I keep it in the fridge


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## Fevmeister

jeebsy said:


> I keep it in the fridge


same


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## MWJB

Either, or.


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## Fevmeister

MWJB said:


> Either, or.


Nope, otherwise it'd be called room temperature brew


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## MWJB

Fevmeister said:


> Nope, otherwise it'd be called room temperature brew


Unless it's a hot day, then it would be hot brew, but not as hot as hot, hot...colder than hot, hot, but not as cold as frozen...hotter than that, but colder than boiling...darn it, if only there was some sort of scale to express hot/not hotness...

I don't think the ~20C range from room temp to fridge temp makes a lot of odds.


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## Wando64

OK, like the length of a piece of string, got it.

So, for the fridge brigade, do you expect a concentrate after 24 hours brewing in the fridge?

(Definition of concentrate: Something that you need to dilute to taste)


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## MWJB

Wando64 said:


> OK, like the length of a piece of string, got it.
> 
> So, for the fridge brigade, do you expect a concentrate after 24 hours brewing in the fridge?
> 
> (Definition of concentrate: Something that you need to dilute to taste)


What was your brew ratio? It'll never be as strong as espresso & people drink that undiluted. I tend to brew 48hours with a fine grind, longer with a coarse grind.


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## Fevmeister

MWJB said:


> Unless it's a hot day, then it would be hot brew, but not as hot as hot, hot...colder that hot, hot, but not as cold as frozen...hotter than that, but colder than boiling...darn it, if only there was some sort of scale to express hot/not hotness...
> 
> I don't think the ~20C range from room temp to fridge temp makes a lot of odds.


I think common sense probably comes into it at some point marky


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## Fevmeister

Wando64 said:


> OK, like the length of a piece of string, got it.
> 
> So, for the fridge brigade, do you expect a concentrate after 24 hours brewing in the fridge?
> 
> (Definition of concentrate: Something that you need to dilute to taste)


when I take the basket out my hario cold brew I tend to top the water level back up to around the plastic handle level. That's diluted enough for me

24h in the fridge gives me good results


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## Wando64

MWJB said:


> What was your brew ratio? It'll never be as strong as espresso & people drink that undiluted. I tend to brew 48hours with a fine grind, longer with a coarse grind.


Just following Raves guidelines.

90gm coffee, coarse grind, 1000ml water.

You mention 48 hours fine grind, longer for coarse grind.

Does this give you a concentrate result?

I see your point about espresso though.

Of course espresso is drunk undiluted, but it is also strong enough to dilute into an Americano.

What I got from my first brew is nowhere as strong as an espresso.


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## MWJB

People drink hot brews & cuppings at 90g/l, it's what I prefer to make cold brews at, without dilution (but watch your cup size, remember each 200ml of finished coffee was brewed with a 22.5g dose). So you're probably still in regular brewed coffee territory.

If you want something that stands up to dilution (say 2:1 water:brew) maybe think in the region of 200-250g/l? You will probably struggle to get above 5%TDS, whatever you do, this could theoretically be achieved at 260g/l.


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## johnealey

probably better to think of it as similar to brewed than espresso and noting you were using decaf may also come out a bit thinner.

Even on long 72 hour steeps (using either 80 to 90g and 1100ml water in a brown mizudashi), mine never comes out what you would think of as concentrated at least viscosity wise, however there is a definate caffeine hit that needs to be watered down a bit to avoid running round like the joker for the remainder of the day.

I also wedge mine in the fridge door which seems to do the stirring for me.

John


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## insatiableOne

These brewers take out all the bitterness & acidity.

Give this a look at for real coldbrew, Yama Glass Cup Cold Drip Maker.


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## Whitefiver

Before purchasing anything, I tested the cold brew technique using a kilner jar, and filtering through a standard cone coffee filter. I used 50g medium fine ground coffee to around 600g water, and left it to brew for 3 days in the fridge.

I find that diluted 50:50 with hot water it makes a very nice cup of coffee - very smooth, clean and almost sweet. Not what I'm used too, but I find that I always go back for a second cup. Also diluted 50:50 with cold milk, it makes a pleasant cold coffee. I need to experiment more, particularly with some better beans, but it is a welcome change. May have to request a Hario for Christmas! Thanks for all the info on here.


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## Eyedee

I made my first foray into cold brew and sampled the results this morning.

45g in 500ml, left to steep 36 hrs with a stir every 6, opened the Hario WIDE for the course grind, filtered through a drip machine to clean the brew up.

My first comment was I could have done this with my aeropress and caused both less mess and less effort.

What's the deal here as to the advantages, I expected more or different a flavour out of the cold brew ?

Ian


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## MWJB

Have you tried plunging a cold Aeropress? 

Advantages, harder to burn your mouth on cold brew, needs no heat source to make it...;-)

You don't need to grind very coarse, in fact I'd specifically advise against it.

Try different ratios & steep times. When I'm making cold brew I'm just making a colder, stronger version of a hot brew, I'm not looking to make the coffee taste a certain way, if doesn't taste that way when made normally.


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## jeebsy

I tried filtering cold brew through an aeropress and ended up wearing more of the drink than I had finished product


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## hartshay

I am still struggling with getting a nice enough tasting cold brew... Perhaps I am just accepted to espresso type flavour....


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## MWJB

hartshay said:


> I am still struggling with getting a nice enough tasting cold brew... Perhaps I am just accepted to espresso type flavour....


Espresso isn't a flavour, it's a concentration (strength). You should still be able to get a good, thick mouthfeel with cold brew. What is your current method & ratio?

On the other hand....it doesn't take long for espresso to go cold ;-)


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## jakebyrne

I use a large Hario cold brew maker. I used to use a large mixing bowl but the Hario makes it much easier.

I use 100g coffee to 1.1l water. I grind rather coarse. Coarser than a French press, but then leave it at room temperature for 24 hours, and fridge for another 12-24 depending on concentration wanted.

I have no idea why I use a split temperature method, I've just found it works best after months of trial and error.

Through the summer I usually make a less concentrated brew, then winter a thicker brew to be diluted with hot water.


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## Nod

I am ready to take frist steps in cold brew...

I was going to brew coarse but I am interested in MJWB view of grinding finer..

So if the coarseness of grind scale is:

Espresso: aeropress: clever dripper: kalita: Chemex

Where on this scale approximately do you grind?


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## MWJB

I use about the same grind in both Aeropress & Clever, fine drip. It's a slow process, but coarse grinds slow it down further.


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## Missy

I love the fact you guys were discussing this in the dead of winter.

It's glorious here today, and after the raging success of yesterday's half litre of yum, I stuck another batch in the fridge.

Have people found using a dedicated pot worthwhile? Mines in the French press jug, and I used v60 papers, but will probably repurpose a muslin, though the mesg filter jugs don't seem expensive and may be easier, plus I wondered about the improvement around the coffee being suspended rather than stuck in the bottom between stirrings.


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## jeebsy

Might be time to get hot chocolate off the specials menu and the cold brew back on


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## Schmy

I tried a cold brew for the first time today. 35g of very coarsely ground and 250ml of cold filtered water into my small cafetière. Covered and into the fridge for ~16hrs. Filtered through V60 paper to get rid of the sediment.

I made an espresso this morning with the same beans and I can't believe how different the flavour was. Fruity, fragrant and incredibly refreshing. Looking forward to it as a summer drink.


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## Missy

It's incredible isn't it!


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## hotmetal

I'd forgotten about this thread, I enjoyed the results I had back in last June but somehow forgot about it. This has inspired me to have another go.


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## Missy

I should add I've got myself a hario cold brew pot thing. It's great. Super easy.


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## Spooks

Meant to make this last year and never did but need to get this on the go soon. Enjoyed some cold brew after a few cycles last summer but I would prefer to make my own this year


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## Hairy_Hogg

OK so I received the Hario cold brewer (1l size) for Fathers day and set of my first cold brew yesterday morning.

My normal grind size is around 1+8 on a Feldgrind so I went a little courser and took it to 2+0 using 90g of Rave Hakuna Matata and 1l of water, 24 hours later and 5 or 6 good stirs in-between I ended up with this.









As my grind was quite fine (especially compared with the pictures of the Rave pre ground earlier in the thread) I thought I would set up the leaning tower of Hario to filter my finished brew via an automatic dual stage filtration system







.









Whilst this looked good in theory the papers soon became clogged with fines so I ended up pouring brew into one whilst I cleaned the other paper under a cold tap to remove the fines, then had to swap over and repeat. Probably had to do this 8 times with both set of papers before the whole output had run through a filter paper.

Just finished drinking my first glass of the filtered finished product and it is a very interesting drink.









There is a real toffee taste that dominates, a creamy toffee. Not really getting a hint of the lemon and floral notes that the beans have but this is a lovely smooth drink. I am quite surprised about the caffeine hit you get from it as well, I have had one glass and feel like I have had two normal coffees. Going to try it warmed up later to see what that is like.

I think I will try a much coarser grind next, probably 3+0 on the Feldgrind and maybe a 48 hour brew rather that the 24 hours I just did to compensate for the courser grind.


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## James811

I've found a medium grind not too far from an aeropress type grind with a 12 hour steep works well, filtered through a chemex though so that will probably make a difference


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## MWJB

Hairy_Hogg said:


> OK so I received the Hario cold brewer (1l size) for Fathers day and set of my first cold brew yesterday morning.
> 
> My normal grind size is around 1+8 on a Feldgrind so I went a little courser and took it to 2+0 using 90g of Rave Hakuna Matata and 1l of water, 24 hours later and 5 or 6 good stirs in-between I ended up with this.
> 
> As my grind was quite fine (especially compared with the pictures of the Rave pre ground earlier in the thread) I thought I would set up the leaning tower of Hario to filter my finished brew via an automatic dual stage filtration system
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Whilst this looked good in theory the papers soon became clogged with fines so I ended up pouring brew into one whilst I cleaned the other paper under a cold tap to remove the fines, then had to swap over and repeat. Probably had to do this 8 times with both set of papers before the whole output had run through a filter paper.
> 
> Just finished drinking my first glass of the filtered finished product and it is a very interesting drink.
> 
> There is a real toffee taste that dominates, a creamy toffee. Not really getting a hint of the lemon and floral notes that the beans have but this is a lovely smooth drink. I am quite surprised about the caffeine hit you get from it as well, I have had one glass and feel like I have had two normal coffees. Going to try it warmed up later to see what that is like.
> 
> I think I will try a much coarser grind next, probably 3+0 on the Feldgrind and maybe a 48 hour brew rather that the 24 hours I just did to compensate for the courser grind.


Remember that you used 90g of coffee, so what you are left with after filtering is around 6 servings worth. It's easy to over caffeinate on cold brew.

When filtering, start pouring around the top of the filter paper, yes, it's likely to clog and drain slowly, that's typical.

3+0 on a Feldgrind sounds pretty coarse, I'd be tempted to give that 72 hours if it were me?


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## Hairy_Hogg

3 is nothing like the boulder size earlier in this thread from the Rave pre ground cold brew coffee.

My 2 and 3 look like this.









No problem with steeping a bit longer though, so will try a 3 day.


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## MWJB

Hairy_Hogg said:


> 3 is nothing like the boulder size earlier in this thread from the Rave pre ground cold brew coffee.
> 
> My 2 and 3 look like this.
> 
> No problem with steeping a bit longer though, so will try a 3 day.


Well, I guess there's 2 ways to look at it: Set out to make a different kind of drink, or set out to make a colder, maybe stronger version of what you are used to from that coffee. I don't really expect any brew method to transform a coffee, more subtle changes & mouthfeel.

If you brew very coarse & 12-24hours, you will hit a lower extraction than you typically will with hot brews. This often shows itself as a lack of acidity, maybe simpler choc & toffee like flavours...which isn't a problem, but it's got nothing specifically to do with cold brew.

I guess I'm just saying play around & no need to shy away from finer grinds (speeds up the brew).


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## Hairy_Hogg

Next lot is in, some Foundry Rwandan, ground on a 3.0 and in for 3 days. Looking forwards to playing around with grind and beans with this.

@MWJB - Does water have as big an impact on cold brew flavour as it does on a hot extraction?


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## MWJB

Hairy_Hogg said:


> Next lot is in, some Foundry Rwandan, ground on a 3.0 and in for 3 days. Looking forwards to playing around with grind and beans with this.
> 
> @MWJB - Does water have as big an impact on cold brew flavour as it does on a hot extraction?


Good question...um, I don't know  I have only used Volvic for cold brews. Personally I think it has a bigger effect for brews that have a long contact time, I played safe as I can't think of anything more galling than waiting 2 days for a brew, then not enjoying it. ;-)


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## letthemeat

I can't chip in with advice on cold brewing as I've never done it. However I can recommend trying it with kenyan beans from Nude Coffee Roasters. We had the same beans as a filter and a cold brew at Full Court Press in Bristol a few weeks back and couldn't believe the difference between the 2 drinks. The cold brew smelt like blackcurrant cordial (no hint of coffee) yet when you drank it it was clearly coffee with a strong blackcurrant flavour. The filter had blackcurrant flavours but nowhere near as strong. Really interesting cold brew.


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## Pseudonym

I've got the Hario Mizudashi 1l jug- about £17 delivered.

I used rave fudge blend & asked for a cafetière grind for ease. 24hr soak of 100g.

Delicious. A drop of simple syrup to taste if your that way inclined or dissolve your regular sugary dose in hot water before adding to your drinking vessel of choice.


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## AndyDClements

Chatting to a colleague in another office, about my time off sick (a few months with slipped disc) and mentioned the time spent trying out coldbrew, he said he needed coffee near instantly so couldn't see it working for him. Next day he commented that he'd spent that evening looking at coldbrew info, realised he didn't need immense amounts of kit (but had been looking at fancy wooden towers with pretty glass works), I think he'll be trying coldbrew in a jug or similar within the week.


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## hilltopbrews

AndyDClements said:


> Chatting to a colleague in another office, about my time off sick (a few months with slipped disc) and mentioned the time spent trying out coldbrew, he said he needed coffee near instantly so couldn't see it working for him. Next day he commented that he'd spent that evening looking at coldbrew info, realised he didn't need immense amounts of kit (but had been looking at fancy wooden towers with pretty glass works), I think he'll be trying coldbrew in a jug or similar within the week.


I started off with just a 2l Kilner jar and Lakeland's jelly strainer with stand. All in all £20.

I was given oxo cold brew system which isn't bad at all. It's just bulky.


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## AndyDClements

I started by using a 2.6l lunchbox and a jelly strainer, but it was a problem with not being able to stand or lift even 1kg of weight so purchased an Oxo system and now just use that. If I was organised I'd have it brewing and just have the jug out, then only need the stand and carafe for when I'm filtering it, but I'm not so whole thing sits on the worktop for two days out of seven (1x 1/2lb brew of normal and 1 x1/2lb brew of decaf each week).


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## filthynines

Time to resurrect for the new year! Am I first one to have gone mad with the hour of sunshine we had?

Well worth filtering your brew...


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## Hairy_Hogg

I had a cold brew of last months LSOL offering, it was enjoyed in brief moments of sunshine.


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## Marc Nephtali

Hi

I am a coffee aficionado, but it has lately been acting up on my stomach. Do you have any hints or a special kind of coffee that would be easy on the stomach? Marc


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## MildredM

Marc Nephtali said:


> Hi
> 
> I am a coffee aficionado, but it has lately been acting up on my stomach. Do you have any hints or a special kind of coffee that would be easy on the stomach? Marc


Is that all coffee or only cold brew, Marc? What kind of coffee do you drink?


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## Hairy_Hogg

To agitate or not to agitate....

Normally when making my cold brew I agitate quite vigorously the grinds as I pour the water in which results in quite a murky brew that takes a few filter papers to "clean" when I am decanting after the 18 - 24 hours in the fridge. Yesterday I made a batch and I did not stir the grinds at all when pouring the water in and you could see the results in the Mizudashi pitcher immediately, a very clear light brown rather than a sludgy brown. During the brews tenure in the fridge I swirled the brew rather than stirring every 3-4 hours and this morning you could see that the final result was a lovely clean dark brown brew. I pulled the results out and filtered the liquid as normal through a V60 02 and only needed one filter paper.

The taste is spot on, there is (for me) a positive difference it tastes like a cleaner drink although it is not "thinner" in taste. I am going to stick another batch on today but based on a tighter grind (was 2.5 on my Feldgrind going to try at 2.0)


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## Hairy_Hogg

The tighter grind just took the Cold Brew to the level it needed to be, brings out a little more sweetness and a touch more body. No stirring is definitely the way forwards for me.


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## Jacko112

I've not long been making cold brew for the wife, I'm not a big fan so haven't been drinking it, but I haven't been filtering once it's been left in the fridge for 18 ish hours - is this something that's "done"?

Bearing in mind that she takes it with milk & syrup,does it make a difference?


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## MWJB

It's done if it's needed. Sounds like 'not needed' in your case. Too much silt might make the drink more bitter, so maybe give it a go & see if it improves things? I like a rinsed, white Chemex filter or Filtropa for this if your brews are small enough.


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## gracy

Is it cold coffee give you the same effect as hot?


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## AndyDClements

If by effect you mean a brown liquid to drink that tastes of coffee and has a caffeine hit, then Yes. It is definitely not the same drink that would come from the same roasted beans,made using any hot water method.


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## gracy

Yes, I meant caffeine effect.


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## AndyDClements

Don't be surprised if you get more of a hit.Some of the chemicals that make up the coffee taste, aren't as effectively extracted but cold brewing as they are hot brewing, but caffeine is, so you can end up with a higher caffeine:taste ratio with cold brew.


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## MWJB

AndyDClements said:


> Don't be surprised if you get more of a hit.Some of the chemicals that make up the coffee taste, aren't as effectively extracted but cold brewing as they are hot brewing, but caffeine is, so you can end up with a higher caffeine:taste ratio with cold brew.


Isn't that just because people have a habit of brewing cold brew at very high brew ratios (more grounds per mL of beverage)? If overall extraction drops due to cold temp brewing (no reason why it should if you brew long & fine enough) caffeine has been shown to drop proportionally.


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## AndyDClements

The solubility of the different chemicals varies with temperature, so yes theoretically you could drop the grind size and extend the brew time to get full extraction but you'd be looking at days not hours for some chemicals, yet others would be at saturation in just a few hours.

It's just the same as the differences between espresso, brewed, filtered, percolated etc. Different conditions means a different proportion of chemicals at the end.

The brew ratios have an effect on strength, but you water down the result to taste, so it's not the isolated reason that you get more caffeine relative to a certain strength in a finished cup.

What I mean is, you get less "taste" due to lower extraction of some things (such as the oils), so subconsciously you create a drink that users more ground coffee, rather than it just being determined by the amount of water initially used in the brewing process.

Not sure if that articulates what I mean, but it's an attempt.


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## MWJB

If your extraction is lower, whether hot brewed, cold brewed, filter, or espresso, the caffeine content will also be lower. I don't believe there is any evidence that cold brewed coffee has more caffeine, for an equivalent extraction?

If you paper filter the coffee it will not have significant oils (


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## AndyDClements

Depends how you define an equivalent extraction, The extraction isn't proportional, it depends on factors, mainly the solubility of the substances. Hence cold brewed coffee would use more coffee grinds to get the same strength of taste in the same volume of final drinkable beverage, but caffeine is very soluble so you'd end up extracting (by volume) more of it due to the greater volume of grinds.

Edit: I should say, this is my view without my own empirical data to back it up. A quick search for "cold brew coffee caffeine level" shows it's not all one sided but most of the results seem to indicate cold brewed = higher caffeine level in the end product


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## MWJB

AndyDClements said:


> Depends how you define an equivalent extraction, The extraction isn't proportional, it depends on factors, mainly the solubility of the substances. Hence cold brewed coffee would use more coffee grinds to get the same strength of taste in the same volume of final drinkable beverage, but caffeine is very soluble so you'd end up extracting (by volume) more of it due to the greater volume of grinds.
> 
> Edit: I should say, this is my view without my own empirical data to back it up. A quick search for "cold brew coffee caffeine level" shows it's not all one sided but most of the results seem to indicate cold brewed = higher caffeine level in the end product


I think I covered that when I said, "Isn't that just because people have a habit of brewing cold brew at very high brew ratios (more grounds per mL of beverage)?"

An equivalent extraction might be 2g of dissolved coffee solids for every 10g of grinds used.

If you use less water the strength goes up but if you have 2g of dissolved solids in the brew, whatever the strength, that is an equivalent extraction. Strength & and extraction are only comparable at the same brew ratio/beverage:dose ratio.

Extraction of coffee solids & caffeine has been previously shown to be largely proportional between 93C & 38C (MIT).


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## AndyDClements

MWJB said:


> I think I covered that when I said, "Isn't that just because people have a habit of brewing cold brew at very high brew ratios (more grounds per mL of beverage)?"
> 
> An equivalent extraction might be 2g of dissolved coffee solids for every 10g of grinds used.
> 
> If you use less water the strength goes up but if you have 2g of dissolved solids in the brew, whatever the strength, that is an equivalent extraction. Strength & and extraction are only comparable at the same brew ratio/beverage:dose ratio.
> 
> Extraction of coffee solids & caffeine has been previously shown to be largely proportional between 93C & 38C (MIT).


Here it's about cold brew, by definition it will be well below 38C, so that MIT-proven fact isn't necessarily true at 0C to 37C.

As you've defined equivalent extraction as total of dissolved solids (which seems sensible), then I strongly state that caffeine will be a greater proportion of that volume of solids because of its nature. So, no I'm not saying that the higher caffeine level is due only to more grinds per litre of brewed beverage, I'm saying it's also due to a brewing process where caffeine is a higher proportion of the amount of caffeine in the grinds.


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## MWJB

AndyDClements said:


> Here it's about cold brew, by definition it will be well below 38C, so that MIT-proven fact isn't necessarily true at 0C to 37C.
> 
> As you've defined equivalent extraction as total of dissolved solids (which seems sensible), then I strongly state that caffeine will be a greater proportion of that volume of solids because of its nature. So, no I'm not saying that the higher caffeine level is due only to more grinds per litre of brewed beverage, I'm saying it's also due to a brewing process where caffeine is a higher proportion of the amount of caffeine in the grinds.


It's certainly not true for 0C, that's an ice lolly with coffee grounds in it 

The amount of caffeine in the grinds is set by the coffee beans themselves (av. ~1.1% for roasted Arabica), you can't increase it, you can only fail to get all of it. The vast majority of it comes out in any brew method with a ball-park extraction, cold brew can't pull out more than is there in the first place, especially if extraction is the low side of normal.


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## gracy

How good to drink caffeine free coffee? And does it worth to buy it to try?


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## gracy

I guess when is brew is cold that caffeine works just slower for youer body than if it was hot.


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## MWJB

gracy said:


> I guess when is brew is cold that caffeine works just slower for youer body than if it was hot.


I don't know if there is any reason to believe that, caffeine seems effective even in cold drinks other than coffee & in tablet form.


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## gracy

Yeah I read a few articles about that some people say it is better to drink cold because of less caffeine but some saying is no difference.


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## Mmiah

gracy said:


> I guess when is brew is cold that caffeine works just slower for youer body than if it was hot.


anything you eat or drink will quickly change to body temp once inside you

500g can of cold drinks Vs (me) 94000g of body mass at 36 degrees C

i think cold brew has a higher caffeine content as the water is in contact with the coffee longer therefore extracting more

less oils as its cold the oil will not be as fluid and stay in the grinds

but ye different brew methods extract things in different amounts

i wonder what would happen if you mixed a shot of espresso with some pour over and cold brew using the same batch of beans lol


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## MWJB

If cold brew is under-extracted (as it often is), then the caffeine content per ml of drink, for the same brew ratio, will be less than a well extracted hot brew....but I don't know why you would deliberately under-extract cold brew & some folk under-extract hot brew too. So, it can have less caffeine, but it's not a given & many people updose considerably when making cold brew, which will increase caffeine content.


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## gracy

thanks for detail explanation


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## gracy

I tried decaf coffee seems alright almost not difference for me


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## jogantas

Ι use Mizudashi 80-90 gramms to 1,15 liter cold water , coarse grind to very coarse grind for 24 hours . I don't filter it , i used to but i was losing the oils of the coffee and the bitterness . The oils give better mouthfeel. I don't dilute the coffee anymore.


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## Dappertime

*Filtron Cold Water Coffee Concentrate Brewer*

*
*I've made cold brew coffee that was far better than the stuff I could find in a store, for far less money! Be careful though, it can be incredibly strong. You'll want to dilute the resulting concentrate by at least 1:3. Also, you don't need to order the Filtron-specific filters, just a large coffee filter that covers the bottom is enough (you're really just trying to keep the grinds from touching the felt pad directly).


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## DougalMcGuire

I've been dabbling in cold brew since around April this year.

Unlike lots of others here though I'm making it in the aeropress... Grinding a little coarser than I would for a 'normal' aeropress of Jericho Coffee Traders 'The Source' beans. 35g in with 140ml of filtered water. A good stir and then leaving, inverted, (with a couple more stirs when I remember) for 18-24 hours. I'm then either using the results for a Cold Brew Tonic with some ice and a decent tonic water (you can tell the difference with good and bad tonic with it) or having it mixed 50/50 with boiling water as an americano-esque drink before dashing out the door in the morning.

As a hot drink I enjoy it. Definitely no sugar needed. It has a natural sweetness and a flavour that I really enjoy.

It's as the tonic though that it has been a revelation. The first time we drank it (the aeropress makes enough for 2 drinks and so I share with MrsDoyle) we were both a little unsure. It has an almost alcholic and bizzarely medicianal taste. It reminded both of us of something that we had drunk in our past, possibly on holiday? But that which neither of us could put a finger on. I think it took about 2-3 drinks of both of us not being that sure of the taste for us to become hooked. We now have about 2 per week as a treat. Occasionally we have it with some gin thrown in too! Though I'm not actually sure that adds to my enjoyment of it at all. Which is a bit of a shock.

We've also tried mixing it with other drinks as well (a bit of rum, ginger and lime juice) and whilst nice, they haven't been anything that would make me choose it over the tonic.

I think that I'm about ready to move on from James' Yirgacheffe and try some other beans. Anyone have any recommendations?

I've also toyed with buying something more specialised than the aeropress to make it in, but I'm not sure that I would see any benefits from it? I guess making larger volumes? Though I notice that quite a few of you are using a much smaller dosing for yours than I am for mine. Though I think that I quite like the concentrated nature of mine for mixing.


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