# Which Espresso Machine



## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

Okay, finally decided to change my espresso machine and would like some advice on what to get. I only drink espresso and I hate milk so I don't really care about double boilers etc - only a couple of my friends drink milk too so it's not that important. I need the best value machine that makes great espresso. I can buy the Iberital machines really cheap but I don't really like them although I may change my mind if someone makes a compelling argument. I don't really want to spend more than €1000 unless there is a really good reason for doing so. I have grinders etc so it's just the machine I need. Thanks.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

What machine did you have before may I ask , and has it broken down or are you changing it because it doesn't meet your needs. Just out of interest what grinder are you pairing your new machine with ( I know you say you have one , but would be interested to see which one ) . If just espresso , then it may be worth considering a small lever machine , of which there are others on here that will be able to recommend one within our price bracket. Last question, are you looking to purchase new , or would you be happy with a well looked after 2 nd machine ?

Cheers


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

It is important to match a grinder equal to your machine of course. At 1000 euros there are lots of choice , but, where do you start. A ;lever machine or an E61 type pump driven machine. Some of the bigger 'small' levers like the Gaggia Achille or La Pav Pro series can make very good shots, but are definitely more of a faff than simply chucking in some coffee to a handle, tamping and pressing a button! But, the reward in in the taste, certainly at that price point.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

I don't know what you have now though, what you want in terms of a machine will depend on how much work you are prepared to do.

Do you have a good grinder?

Are you prepared to work hard for your coffee or do you want to get simple extractions?

Do you want a machine which is relatively stress free or do you mind trouble-shooting a lot?

A lot of people here love levers, and rightly so I imagine, but I get the feeling that you need to love the process of making coffee to get the most out of one.

I also hear that some levers, particularly the cheaper LP are quite picky about grind.....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

hi kyle re grind pickiness levers can be no more picky than say a Silvia ( which is also labelled grind specific ). I suspect a lot of the grind picky machines get their label from being paired with grinders not up to the job or lack of experience using them .


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I have an iberital commercial grinder and a Super Jolly as well as an MDF, DeMoka and a Rocky. I also have a Gaggia Classic, a Silvia and a DeMoka espresso machine. I love my classic and produce a very acceptable espresso with it which is why I have been loathed to go for another machine. I've tried a few machines and did not see a great deal of difference between my Classic and them - always when everything is prepared and done 'properly' (thorough warming, good grind, even tamp, etc). I think if I were a Latte or Capuccino drinker, it would be different as the boiler and steam would be insufficient.

For those who do not know, DeMoka was a Catalan espresso machine maker, especially popular in Germany, which went out of business about 5 years ago. I used to work for them. I really am looking for a top espresso machine which will allow me to produce a coffee that will knock my socks off. If not, I'll stick with the Gaggia.

I have tried the iberital machines and do not like them. I was thinking about a La Pavoni. What's the difference between the Lusso and the EL? I had a Gaggia lever pump machine 15 years ago which produced fantastic velvet shots but it got 'lost' in my move to Spain :-(.

Thanks.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

As nobody has any suggestions I thought I'd ask opinions about the La Pavoni lever machines. I have seen that the Europiccola and the Professional are basically the same apart from deposit size and manometer. Is the Pro worth the extra 50 or so quid? Are they reliable machines? Do they still have the same overheating problems they had a few years back? I'd really like some advice before buying. Thanks.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

I think you are likely to get the biggest change in your shot from a lever machine compared to just upgrading to another pump machine.

But to be honest, you might just be better off modifying your classic with a pid or something or add some copper tubing until you can find a machine you really want.

At the least it should make your shots more consistent....


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I don't have a problem with consistancy from my Gaggia - my shots are really nice. I just feel like a bit of an upgrade and I think the lever machine may be the way to go. Just wondering what the difference was between the europiccolo and the professional models and I want to know if they are reliable or if they overheat.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

La pavonis have a reputation for overheating however new variants seen a little better than the older ones due Tia polymer piston being used. They produce amazing shots I. The right hands and you seem to know what you are doing so will be able to get the best out of it. If you follow some simple regimes then a great shot will be had every time.

The key difference between the ep and prof is the boiler size and a manometer, if milk is not you thing then the ep will be perfect ( steam pressure is a little better on the prof version) you already know how good these can be as the gaggia 105 is virtually the same machine.

Other options for you if you want amazing short shots of espresso is to hunt out a pristine arrex caravel you can get them for between 200 and 300 euros, great temperarure control and simple to use and clean, they are old (50s and 60s) but they fab


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

For example. this one in my viw is overpriced since it has been restored. They are old so do not work any the worse for the odd ding!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Restored-vintage-Arrarex-Caravel-espresso-machine-/251318783435?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_146&hash=item3a83c44dcb


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I must say I love the simplicity of using a manual piston machines - it's almost like being close to nature. It is how God, or at least Achille Gaggia and Desiderio Pavoni intended. I love the personality in each shot - never consistant but are consistantly good, if you get my drift. The main problem I remember with my old Gaggia lever was when I had more than three people to make coffee for.

I like the look of the manometer but if it is unnecessary, I may save some money and just get the europiccollo which is a really cute machine.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The gaggia Achille is a fab machine never over heats as it is a heat exchanger so you can flush it


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