# Barista pro vs oracle



## Lyniix (Feb 17, 2021)

Hey guys

In "these corona times", my entire day is spent at home. Therefore i want to treat myself with some better coffee 

I think i have come to the conclusion that i want either Barista pro or the oracle (NOT touch). Keep in mind im a student, so if I get more quality for more money, I can accept that.

My thoughts are as followed:

From what i have read, the problem with the oracle is the grinding/ tamping. I DONT want to "waste" the extra grams every time i pull a shot. The oracle grinds 22g (read it can go down to 20), but it still seems too much. Optimally i wanted something around the 15-18g. I have also read the tamp is not distributed like really well. Anyway, do you have more options to decide the amount of dose on the barista pro and then tamp yourself?

The problem with the barista pro is, as I understand it that the temperature on the coffee is too cold. I really dont like to drink only lukewarm coffee. Another problem that i have read is the wand is somehow too powerful and that you will have to use alot of milk to not overheat too fast. That is a problem to me as well

So to summarize, what i want is:

1. not wasting too much coffee NOR too much milk.

2. I want my coffee HOT (as the right temperature)

3. I have no problems with steaming my own milk, but I really like the idea of pulling the shot while steaming so you get the right temperature and dont waste more time than needed.

4. I live at a small flat and dont have space for a grinder as well, therefore, these two are in my mind.

5. I mostly drink cappuccinos, and for me the first thing is not making latte art, maybe in the future.

SO, what are you experiences of the two machines?

Thanks


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## SO8 (May 24, 2020)

Lyniix said:


> Hey guys
> 
> In "these corona times", my entire day is spent at home. Therefore i want to treat myself with some better coffee
> 
> ...


 I went through this process last May due to Covid and bought an Oracle.

I was worried the Oracle would be huge. It isn't.

I've not had any issues with the grinder.

I simply love the fact I can set the milk off steaming and get on sorting the coffee at the sane time.

I love the machine and am glad I wentvfor this one as opposed to the others. It is a huge amount of money though !


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## Lyniix (Feb 17, 2021)

SO8 said:


> I went through this process last May due to Covid and bought an Oracle.
> 
> I was worried the Oracle would be huge. It isn't.
> 
> ...


 What about the dose. How low can you get the machine to grind?


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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

Oracle owner of over 3 years here.

Its a good machine if you don't want to fiddle. If all you want is great coffee and are content to follow the rigid "process" then its mostly repeatable with every shot. If you want something that you can tweak, go mad with settings and craft the perfect shot (which implies you have both time and are happy to throw away less than perfect shots) then its the wrong machine for you.

To answer your questions from my lens as a user:

1 - There is little milk wastage; assuming you are pouring the right amount in to start with. I do find that adding more milk than I need and throwing away 20-30ml each time gives me much better milk texture but thats a limitation of the jug and the level of milk.

1 - Grinds - as I said above; My grind doesn't vary much between 13-15 on the dial, my output is consistently in the 60-70g for a known 22g in. So I don't think that it wastes coffee

2 - I set my coffee temp and I get the temp I set. Shrugs, any machine should do that

3 - Yep, do both at the same time; kick the milk off and then when its about 40c then I start the coffee. Both are then ready at the same time.

4 - Its not a huge machine and the top-fill for water makes life easier

5 - I can just about do latte art but thats probably a combination of me being crap and not using a full milk jug (see 1 above). If I use the recommended amount of milk (2/3 full) then the milk has that lovely wet paint look. Thats why I tend to waste milk as the outcome is very tasty.

Its a good machine; its certainly child-proof as my 8 and 10 yo's can both make me a coffee and they have their own settings for steaming milk for hot chocolate. MrsToby likes americano's so again this works well and its a one-button press. If I was doing it all again then I'm about 51% convinced that I would go down the Decent Espresso route but thats coz I'm an engineering geek.


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## Lyniix (Feb 17, 2021)

TobyAnscombe said:


> Oracle owner of over 3 years here.
> 
> Its a good machine if you don't want to fiddle. If all you want is great coffee and are content to follow the rigid "process" then its mostly repeatable with every shot. If you want something that you can tweak, go mad with settings and craft the perfect shot (which implies you have both time and are happy to throw away less than perfect shots) then its the wrong machine for you.
> 
> ...


 Thank you for taking your time with these good answers. I got two follow up questions:

1. 22 gram grinded is for me alot, as i normally use 14g for a cup of coffee (filter coffee). Have you tried to lower the dose?

2. Have you tried with a single basket?


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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

Lyniix said:


> Thank you for taking your time with these good answers. I got two follow up questions:
> 
> 1. 22 gram grinded is for me alot, as i normally use 14g for a cup of coffee (filter coffee). Have you tried to lower the dose?
> 
> 2. Have you tried with a single basket?


 The way the auto-tamp works trying to lower the dose is an exercise in frustration. For me, 22g in and 60-70g out gives me a nice double shot which when topped up with steamed milk is a decent flat white.

My machine is setup based on time, not flow: I did play about ages ago with the "single/double" options but quickly ended up on a defined time. The way I look at it is that if the dose and time are fixed, the only variable is the grind which is why I probably have had an easier time than some others with the same machine. Thats the issue - its a lot of money to spend on something that is inherently not that flexible but for my use-case it was perfect.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

You can't really relate french press or filter to an espresso machine and if you have been using preground or even packs of beans from supermarkets etc that may not relate either. Most people who have an espresso machine at home use fresh roasted and those are very likely to be arabica beans. Those can offer some unusual tastes. Blends for other methods often have robusta beans in them. I also believe they are roasted differently so may taste one way using normal methods and rather different via an espresso machine. Some find them impossible to use in one. It's usually put down to not being fresh enough.

Both of the machines you mention come with 2 baskets. A single and a double. I did use a Barista Express. Single 9.5g and double more than 17 but that depends to some extent on the beans being used. You would best ask with a separate question about using the single on the oracle or maybe someone who has used it on one may pop up on this thread. The Oracle takes some of the variables away so users just need to worry about grinder setting and how much coffee comes out. I've not used one so don't know how well it holds shot sizes. It should handle the grinds side of things pretty well. The variability people who have never used an espresso machine before often comes as a surprise on other styles of machine. They have seen coffee being made commercially.

I use a Sage DB and also a basket that holds ~14g. It's a Fracino 12g basket but is a tight fit in the Sage portafilter as it ridged. I use it for rather strong beans. It should work in an Oracle but can't offer any guarantees and it may get loaded with more in an Oracle. The DB is very similar to an Oracle but without the grinder etc or touch screen if you are thinking about that Oracle. I take a lot of care handling the grinds to get consistency. Some would weigh the shot coming out as well and end it manually. I manage to hold it close enough for me with time only but taste does vary a bit.  Odd whoopsies get drunk for punishment.


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## Lyniix (Feb 17, 2021)

TobyAnscombe said:


> The way the auto-tamp works trying to lower the dose is an exercise in frustration. For me, 22g in and 60-70g out gives me a nice double shot which when topped up with steamed milk is a decent flat white.
> 
> My machine is setup based on time, not flow: I did play about ages ago with the "single/double" options but quickly ended up on a defined time. The way I look at it is that if the dose and time are fixed, the only variable is the grind which is why I probably have had an easier time than some others with the same machine. Thats the issue - its a lot of money to spend on something that is inherently not that flexible but for my use-case it was perfect.


 thank you for taking the time answering!


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## Lyniix (Feb 17, 2021)

ajohn said:


> You can't really relate french press or filter to an espresso machine and if you have been using preground or even packs of beans from supermarkets etc that may not relate either. Most people who have an espresso machine at home use fresh roasted and those are very likely to be arabica beans. Those can offer some unusual tastes. Blends for other methods often have robusta beans in them. I also believe they are roasted differently so may taste one way using normal methods and rather different via an espresso machine. Some find them impossible to use in one. It's usually put down to not being fresh enough.
> 
> Both of the machines you mention come with 2 baskets. A single and a double. I did use a Barista Express. Single 9.5g and double more than 17 but that depends to some extent on the beans being used. You would best ask with a separate question about using the single on the oracle or maybe someone who has used it on one may pop up on this thread. The Oracle takes some of the variables away so users just need to worry about grinder setting and how much coffee comes out. I've not used one so don't know how well it holds shot sizes. It should handle the grinds side of things pretty well. The variability people who have never used an espresso machine before often comes as a surprise on other styles of machine. They have seen coffee being made commercially.
> 
> I use a Sage DB and also a basket that holds ~14g. It's a Fracino 12g basket but is a tight fit in the Sage portafilter as it ridged. I use it for rather strong beans. It should work in an Oracle but can't offer any guarantees and it may get loaded with more in an Oracle. The DB is very similar to an Oracle but without the grinder etc or touch screen if you are thinking about that Oracle. I take a lot of care handling the grinds to get consistency. Some would weigh the shot coming out as well and end it manually. I manage to hold it close enough for me with time only but taste does vary a bit.  Odd whoopsies get drunk for punishment.


 Thank you for the input. I have heard about the Fracino basket, and i will definitely ask out, whether it is possible to use such a one, before buying the oracle. my GF doesnt drink coffee, so It would be nice to dose around that amount instead of 22, if it is possible. Do you use the 14 g as a Double dose?


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## Lyniix (Feb 17, 2021)

.


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## Lyniix (Feb 17, 2021)

ajohn said:


> You can't really relate french press or filter to an espresso machine and if you have been using preground or even packs of beans from supermarkets etc that may not relate either. Most people who have an espresso machine at home use fresh roasted and those are very likely to be arabica beans. Those can offer some unusual tastes. Blends for other methods often have robusta beans in them. I also believe they are roasted differently so may taste one way using normal methods and rather different via an espresso machine. Some find them impossible to use in one. It's usually put down to not being fresh enough.
> 
> Both of the machines you mention come with 2 baskets. A single and a double. I did use a Barista Express. Single 9.5g and double more than 17 but that depends to some extent on the beans being used. You would best ask with a separate question about using the single on the oracle or maybe someone who has used it on one may pop up on this thread. The Oracle takes some of the variables away so users just need to worry about grinder setting and how much coffee comes out. I've not used one so don't know how well it holds shot sizes. It should handle the grinds side of things pretty well. The variability people who have never used an espresso machine before often comes as a surprise on other styles of machine. They have seen coffee being made commercially.
> 
> I use a Sage DB and also a basket that holds ~14g. It's a Fracino 12g basket but is a tight fit in the Sage portafilter as it ridged. I use it for rather strong beans. It should work in an Oracle but can't offer any guarantees and it may get loaded with more in an Oracle. The DB is very similar to an Oracle but without the grinder etc or touch screen if you are thinking about that Oracle. I take a lot of care handling the grinds to get consistency. Some would weigh the shot coming out as well and end it manually. I manage to hold it close enough for me with time only but taste does vary a bit.  Odd whoopsies get drunk for punishment.


 Perhabs you can send a link to the francino 12g basket? Cant seem to find one, but i live in EU?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Lyniix said:


> Perhabs you can send a link to the francino 12g basket? Cant seem to find one, but i live in EU?


 I ordered mine off them directly by phone

https://www.fracino.com/

There are other makers that produce 12g baskets but it's hard to be sure how much they hold on different machines. I also ordered their standard single and double at the same time. They are not expensive. Shipping may be. They are a tighter fit in the Sage portafilter as they are ridged and need an extraction tool to get them out.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B073JP7KLD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Which basket weight I use depends on the bean. I drink americano. Using the 12g as a for instance on one bean I use 13.5g of coffee for 38g of shot out for a ~300ml americano with very little milk. That is with a 30sec shot. If I make one for my wife I cut the shot time to 20sec and add more milk.

These are 58mm baskets. The small Sage machines use 54mm that take a 53mm tamper. Finding different weight baskets other than what Sage supply is difficult. La Spaziale can be used but need modifying and generally hold even more coffee. Their rim size is too big and has to be reduced. Ebay sells a Spaziale coffee pod basket that holds ~14g when used with grounds.


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## woodbar (Aug 28, 2020)

Hi, Just my 2 pence worth.

I have had an Oracle since last July. It was a little frustrating to start with as it did not make good coffee with the type of beans I had got used to using with my previous De'Longhi Bean to Cup, which were darker roast and slightly oily.

However changing to fresh (ish) beans and choosing a medium to lighter roast I am now generally delighted with the results and reasonable consistency. My favourites at the moment are Kenyan which are giving me a fruity, winy, sweetly acidic cup which appeals to me - not into chocolaty flavours at all.

I was also a little concerned about the 22g dispensed amount and tried the single basket on numerous occasions (adjusting the grind size accordingly etc.) but I honestly never got a good brew from it at all so I gave up.

I did purchase a VST 15gm basket which when the tamper is adjusted to its lowest setting and a tamp value of 4 in the menu consistently gives an 18gm dose and extracts very well. The puks are dry, solid and consistent - that does not really affect the taste but its just clean and tidy and they knock out easily. I have been using this now for about 5 months without any problems.

The only downside, for me, is I do not think it's the best machine if you like trying a multitude of different beans as I find it quite difficult to dial it in quickly. You can only really adjust the grind size and the menu tamp value as well as the temperature to try and get the desired yield and taste in your preferred time. You can alter the dose by a gram or two if you want to remove the tamper blade and fiddle about with an allen key to tweak its height up or down - but as mine is already at the lowest setting I can only get a higher dose, not lower!

With some coffees I just wish it had a grinder with more settings - I often feel I need 2 intermediate ones between each of the 45 "notches"!

As I say, if you find a few types of bean that work, that you like, stick to them and do not want to try a new type too often (because you will waste quite a bit dialing it in) then it is a good machine

Hope that helps.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Not being able to easily adjust the dose to tune a little when a grinder has steps is perhaps a bit of a problem but making tiny adjustments to many grinders is by no means easy. The grinder adjustment is very similar to the Sage Smart Grinder pro and neither that or the rather limited number of steps on a standard BE caused me any problems but I tune several ratios and choose the one that gives the correct taste for the bean I am using. 1 to 2 is unusual. Shot time can also be varied - that is what people who weigh shots out do to get the ratio they are after. A bit of latitude on time and ratio and the steps are not a problem. Best option is to taste what you can brew at several ratios. Brew pressure on the large basket machines is rather different to the small basket machines and most if not all bean to cup machines. That alone can change taste.

The Barista Pro uses the small baskets. Getting different sizes with that is tricky as the ones that are available need modifying. This was one of the main reasons I switched to a DB. The DB fully exposes people to grinds prep as will the Barista Pro unless they haven't added fan tamping. The DB of course also needs a suitable grinder.

Tuning on an Oracle might mean disposing of some grinds each time the setting is changed, It's a relatively small effect on their other grinders but still there.


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