# Sage DB multiple issues



## timaldridge8 (May 17, 2015)

Hi all,

Considering calling Sage up to potentially sort this under warranty - anybody have any experience of this?

Issues I'm experiencing:


If it's not a warm day, then when the machine is getting up to temperature, it will cut the power 2-3 times. I switch it back on at the circuit breaker and eventually it gets to temperature and works

When I press the button to bring water through the group head, it makes an horrendous sound (see video) but does not seem to affect functioning of machine. Does this once then no horrible noise in subsequent shots

There is water leaking through the bottom of the machine onto the counter

Occasionally (maybe 1 in 4 times) the machine will overheat the water (and the temperature display will flash on 199 F) - turn off and on and it's sometimes at 220 F. Steam coming through water tap to bring back down to temperature


As I say, I can always get it to work, but all this is becoming a joke. Is there an obvious fix here?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Sounds like a warranty job to me - how old is the machine?


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

None of that is normal behaviour, I'd definitely get on to sage


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Water flying around inside the machine could cause all sorts of grief so any on the counter means stop using it - maybe checking it's not just down to the drip tray being too full or a spill which is easy when it's being removed to empty it.

Can only guess but the pump initially sounds like it's not really pumping water, and might be loose and etc. There can be a bit of a delay before water comes out of the group head that lessens after that has been done once. Some makes have a one way valve that prevents water running back - Sage ?? Some view the pump as providing that function. I haven't looked in mine yet.

Water on the electronics could cause all sorts of odd behaviour so that probably is why it decides to switch off etc. Sage aren't the only ones that come to grief if that happens.

There is a view around that the DB may develop or start developing leaks after they are 3 years old down to O rings perishing. That and similar can be a problem on other makes. Best option really on all machines is to open them up and check from time to time - not something that Sage would be entirely happy about.

John

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## timaldridge8 (May 17, 2015)

Thanks for the comments guys, doesn't seem to be an easy fix. I'll get onto Sage on Monday.


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

The noise in the video is a faulty solenoid, mine had this problem and an easy fix. Hot water leaking I think is the internal water tap, can't remember the correct name but mine also had this problem but it only happened as I had it serviced so it was fixed before causing a problem. Both of these shouldn't happen to a young machine but they are easy fixes and should be covered under warranty.

No idea about the water temp and power trip though.

My machine is at least 3-4 years old and the only other problem it's had is leaking o-rings, again very easy to fix. Solid machines normally.


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

O rings will be leaking on Steam boiler which is below the triac board this is probably why your RCD is tripping. Easy to replace. As already said faulty solonoid valve.


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## timaldridge8 (May 17, 2015)

Spoke to Sage, they said it was all due to scale build up - seems unlikely given that I only ever use bottled water and have descaled a few times. Anyway.. they are sending out an engineer no issues. Greta service so far.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Craig-R872 said:


> O rings will be leaking on Steam boiler which is below the triac board this is probably why your RCD is tripping. Easy to replace. As already said faulty solonoid valve.










Maybe I should have an unprotected socket installed in our new kitchen especially for Sage.

There are suggestions around the solenoid problems are down to muck getting into the 3 way and that they can be restored by dismantling and cleaning. This makes sense given the quantity of grinds that get into the drip tray. It suggests that more frequent back flushing would probably prevent the problem appearing in the first place. That would be a lot more regular than when the machine requests a cleaning cycle.

John

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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

ajohn said:


> Maybe I should have an unprotected socket installed in our new kitchen especially for Sage.
> 
> There are suggestions around the solenoid problems are down to muck getting into the 3 way and that they can be restored by dismantling and cleaning. This makes sense given the quantity of grinds that get into the drip tray. It suggests that more frequent back flushing would probably prevent the problem appearing in the first place. That would be a lot more regular than when the machine requests a cleaning cycle.
> 
> ...


Can't say I have noticed an usual amount of grinds in the drip tray.

I back flush fairly regularly anyway as a matter of course.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

timaldridge8 said:


> all due to scale build up - seems unlikely given that I only ever use bottled water and have descaled a few times.


Depends what that bottled water is - to an extent?


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

They don't half seem to have a lot of trouble, these DB's. Lot's of grief threads about them lately.


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

spoxehub said:


> They don't half seem to have a lot of trouble, these DB's. Lot's of grief threads about them lately.


Really, I can't see any threads for problems with the DB's. The descale seems to be the only issue I am aware of with these machines.


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

I was told by sage and their engineers it's best to descale every 6 weeks regardless of what water you use.


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

AndyJH said:


> Really, I can't see any threads for problems with the DB's. The descale seems to be the only issue I am aware of with these machines.


I noticed a few pop up recently, seen a fair few in the past. There always seems to be someone posting about some drama or other with them. Sound like a machine I'd be happy steering well clear of tbh.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Can't say I have noticed a particularly large amount of Sage DB threads, especially considering there are probably more owners of them out there than any other DB/HX machine on the market.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I think Sage have far more problems than any other single brand on here though. The issues always seem to be in the same area. Coffee Classics say descale every 6 weeks. they told me that as well even knowing I like in a fairly soft water area and that I run a commercial filter system and my kettle has no signs of scale, so in other words it is bollocks.


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

When the CC engineer came out to fix/service mine he also carried out a descale. When I asked how often I should do this he just advised to wait for the machine to tell me.

I have to say this is the one point I don't like about this machine as it obviously has a design flaw with the probes still being wet and flagging an error. Mine did this when the engineer did the descale and he said it's very common. He did tell me a procedure to overcome it but I didn't have time to write it down and it's now gone from my memory.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

spoxehub said:


> I noticed a few pop up recently, seen a fair few in the past. There always seems to be someone posting about some drama or other with them. Sound like a machine I'd be happy steering well clear of tbh.


I think that some care is needed when comparing reliability. They sell a lot of them probably a lot more than other available dual boiler machines and even other types in that price range and more.

Perhaps you should steer clear of them. After all it's only effectively a pressure profiling dual boiler machine that owners unlike many others can descale easily themselves. I do know of another similar spec'd machine that costs a lot more and may or may not be better that offers the same only the owner uses re mineralised RO water, strips it for inspection every 6 months and back flushes every week. Maybe people should stick clear of these too as the owner must be worried about scale.

Sage customer services seem to put everything down to scale. This may be down to many people buying them and not worrying about the water they put in it. It's hard to compare apples with apples in this area anyway. Me for instance, very soft water but the machine boils water up to temperature 3 to 5 times and a day. Probably unusual usage. Water hardness varies enormously across the UK. Best include the USA, Australia and parts of Europe in Sage's case as they sell plenty in all of those areas. Complaints in real terms are few . 'hit happens on all machines from time to time. I use ' to replace s on some words.








On the other hand the DB does have it's foibles so take your pick. It has many happy owners.

John

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## markthorpw (Jan 21, 2014)

Craig-R872 said:


> O rings will be leaking on Steam boiler which is below the triac board this is probably why your RCD is tripping. Easy to replace. As already said faulty solonoid valve.


Agreed.


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## Tanguero (Mar 29, 2018)

Have happily owned Gaggia classics for about 30 years and about 6 months ago read the reviews for the Sage Oracle.

Having used it regularly can honestly say it is a pleasure to use!


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## Tanguero (Mar 29, 2018)

With all electro mechanical equipment a certain amount of care must be taken. I have always used a Brita filter jug to eliminate the scaling problems some machines are prone to. The inbuilt filter in the Oracle is on the small side but better than nothing. After every coffee session I back wash a couple of times for 10 secs with the rubber plug without chemicals...I give the full detergent clean once a week. The Auto clean program makes this an easy task. The inbuilt grinder is slightly more problematic as you cant just take the hopper off and tip out the excess beans etc from the body of the machine which I do with a freestanding sage grinder. The best I can do is use the brush and vacuum out the bits. With the hopper empty but locked on it is a good time to adjust the grind if it needs it. It can be adjusted with the beans in but better from too fine to less fine is best.

I clean the grinder out after every bag of beans.

It may not be the worlds best coffee machine, but can with care produce Espresso or whatever you like easily. I never wanted a bean to cup machine but think the Oracle has delivered a labour saving unit which gives you more time to enjoy the coffee.

My only complaint is it is too noisy!

I hope this experience helps others to make their mind up about the qualities of this machine.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Tanguero said:


> With all electro mechanical equipment a certain amount of care must be taken. I have always used a Brita filter jug to eliminate the scaling problems some machines are prone to. The inbuilt filter in the Oracle is on the small side but better than nothing. After every coffee session I back wash a couple of times for 10 secs with the rubber plug without chemicals...I give the full detergent clean once a week. The Auto clean program makes this an easy task. The inbuilt grinder is slightly more problematic as you cant just take the hopper off and tip out the excess beans etc from the body of the machine which I do with a freestanding sage grinder. The best I can do is use the brush and vacuum out the bits. With the hopper empty but locked on it is a good time to adjust the grind if it needs it. It can be adjusted with the beans in but better from too fine to less fine is best.
> 
> I clean the grinder out after every bag of beans.
> 
> ...


The built in filter they now supply is likely to be way better than a pour over Brita filter. Another post loosely went through the economics of replacing this filter regularly against using certain brands of bottled water. The bottled water won easily. If some one lived in a harder water area the use of bottled water would extend the life of the filter. One of the curious aspects of filters that do actually soften - they deplete at a rate dependent on how hard the water is.







So Sage must think that they will cope with X L of water from any area in the UK and elsewhere.

Scale a problem - depends. All Sage machines are easy to descale. Many machines aren't.

Going on the machines I have used more regular back flushing of machines based around a DB is a good idea. I get a lot more grinds in the drip tray than I did on the BE for instance even though I was probably grinding finer on it. eg 15 bar brew with 9.2g of coffee against 14.5g at 9 maybe 10 bar for similar outputs.

The Oracle weighs the grinds. On the BE and the SGP I only cleaned the grinder when it really needed it. That's down to using the timer especially on the BE. It takes a number of shots for the output to get stable. All I did when changing beans was shut the hopper off, pick out the whole beans from under the hopper and then run the grinder until it was empty. Then fill the hopper. The first shot out would have a noticeable blend taste. 2nd a lot less. Past that nothing I could notice.







Then I bought another grinder so I could run with 2 different beans with less messing about but treated them the same way.

I suspect it really is a good idea to run Sage grinders when the settings are being changed finer. Not sure if this can be done on the Oracle. I did this pretty early on with the BE to get rid of grinds from the previous setting even though the retention of what comes out of their grinders is rather low it can make a difference. Only a few grams need to be wasted. Even so the output via the timer will change a bit over a couple of shots and then settle down again. I also always finished off any setting change by going finer - attempt to take out any play in the adjustment.







Mostly on the SGP as I always ran my usual drink through the BE grinder and usually found that the only adjustment that was needed was the timer setting.

John

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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

ajohn said:


> The built in filter they now supply is likely to be way better than a pour over Brita filter.


Why?


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## Donscarlet (Oct 21, 2018)

Have Sage sorted out your problems?it sounds very much like water getting into the control electronics,especially if it is tripping out a mains RCD.


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