# Sage barista pro - startup problems



## smurfine (Aug 6, 2021)

Hi. I'm totally new to this forum.

Yesterday, I got a new Sage barista pro. I've had an automatic Delonghi machine before, but wanted to learn more about coffee. I can see that there's already some posts on barista pro, but I was still hoping someone could read my thread and help me out.

So here's what I've tried since yesterday:

I started out with a single espresso using the 1-cup single wall basket. I used fresh dark roasted espresso blend beans. The grind size (wheel on the left) was set to 10 and the grind time to 9.5 seconds. The coffee that came out was very thin with no crema. I then adjusted the grind size with 2 every steps, from 10 to 8. Still no good. Total brewing time was 10 seconds (at the LCD display)

Then I probably did something stupid. I didn't wanna throw away my new fresh beans, so I switched to a cheap old grocery store bean that I've stored for many months. Now I tried grind size, 6, 4 and finally down to 2. Still not good.

At one point I started to weigh my beans before and after grinding instead of using the timer (What's the timer for actually? Before I bought it, I I thought the machine would dose a perfect dose each time automatically) . I weighed 8 gram of beans, and the outcome was 9 grams (maybe there was some leftovers from before in the macine?)

After that I've used 9 gram of beans every time, and always the 1-cup single wall basket.

Anyway, the total brewing time was still 10 seconds, so I switched the grind size wheel to 1 and pushed the one cup button before inserting the portafiler (to preheat the machine?) Now, the total brewing time was 13 seconds. The result looked better, but not good enough. (By the way, is it necessary to preheat the machine by pushing the one cup button before inserting the portafilter?)

I was still stuck, so I started to read articles (again). I know that you should use fresh beans, so this time I switched to my indian royal malabar beans (which I got perfect espresso from on my old automatic machine). This time I used the 2-cup single wall basket instead. Grind size still on 1. I weighed 18 gram of beans. I had to stop the grinding process halfway and push down the coffee a little bit with my fingers to make space for the rest of it. Is it ok to do so?

Then I pushed the 2 cup button. This time it actually started to look like proper espresso with a nice crema. Total brewing time was 30 seconds.

I also tried with some other fresh beans, an espresso blend this time (not sure about the roast grade, but I guess they are dark roasted). Used 14 gram beans instead of 18. Total brewing time this time was 23 seconds, and it became pretty nice.

I'm not sure if it was the beans or the fact that I used the 2-cup basket instead that made the difference, but I've read that it's much easier to make a double shot. Is that true? Why? Is it the 2-cup basket itself that makes it easier or the amount of coffee?

The double shot espresso was too strong for me, so if you recommend to always use the large basket, how little coffe can I use in this one? Do I need at least 14 grams?

I've also heard that it's possible to adjust the top burr, but I'm not really sure what this is and when you should adjust it?

I'm a little bit stuck here, especially making single shots, so I hope someone can help me out a little bit and maybe give me some advice?

Here is a summary of my questions:

1. Why do I struggle so much to make a descent single shot espresso?

2. Should I always use the 2-cup single walled basket? What's the smallest amount of coffee I can put in to make a good espresso, not too strong?

3. I think my latte is too cold, but the heat on the coffee is set to max in the menu. Any tips to make it hotter? Do I how to preheat the machine in some way?

4. Should I adjust the top burr?

5. What's the point with the grind timer? (set to 9.5 seconds on my machine). Do you use it?


----------



## smurfine (Aug 6, 2021)

Can no one help me?


----------



## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

smurfine said:


> Hi. I'm totally new to this forum.
> 
> Yesterday, I got a new Sage barista pro. I've had an automatic Delonghi machine before, but wanted to learn more about coffee. I can see that there's already some posts on barista pro, but I was still hoping someone could read my thread and help me out.
> 
> ...


 Suggest follow Lifestyle Labs AND Hoon's Coffee Channel on YouTube. Kev's coffee blog is pretty good too!


----------



## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

smurfine said:


> I weighed 18 gram of beans. I had to stop the grinding process halfway and push down the coffee a little bit with my fingers to make space for the rest of it. Is it ok to do so?


 The least you have to mess with the grounds the better but some beans (often darker roasts) take up more room in the portafilter. As long as you tap to settle afterwards it should be fine.



smurfine said:


> 1. Why do I struggle so much to make a descent single shot espresso?
> 
> 2. Should I always use the 2-cup single walled basket? What's the smallest amount of coffee I can put in to make a good espresso, not too strong?
> 
> ...


 1. Too vague. Have you read the sticky in the Sage forum? Following all the points there?

2. Yes. The single is harder to get right, more to go wrong, less coffee to work with. Smallest amount...not sure. You said 14g was good, experiment, try 13g, 12g, see if you like the result.

3. Make sure the pf is hot before you start. Either turn machine on earlier (say 25 mins before, with pf in) or run dummy shots through the pf, heating it up. Dummy shots should be run anyway, it brings the water up to temperature. Moving to 3/4 dummy shots was a game changer on my BE. I drink Americano though so water got used.

4. Only do that if you can't grind fine enough. Some people say you should not do that, I've no idea why. It's designed to be changed if need be. Sage will tell you to change it if you feel you should. Like any adjustment, be sure you understand what you are doing before you do it so you don't damage any part of machine. Watch a video or two, make sure you are comfortable with the process.

5. Grind timer I always ignored. I set it to about 4pm and always left it there. Was enough to grind 18g, if it wasn't I just pressed it again.


----------



## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

You mention you are using fresh coffee beans - the best way to gauge how fresh is by the roast date, which should be on the bag if from a good roaster. Best to use fresh coffee at least 7 days from roast date for espresso and up to a few weeks depending on roast level and storage method. You can of course use it longer than a few weeks but this can impact taste in the cup as they stale.

When you refer to total brew time how are you measuring this? Typically it's best to weigh your dose beforehand and then measure the time taken to brew a specific weight of espresso based on a predefined ratio e.g. for a 2:1 ratio you dose 19g in and measure 38g out. This should take around 30s as a starting point. You can then adjust ratio to your preference or grind finer or coarser.

It's probably best to use the 2 cup single walled basket for now. I believe the minimum dose you can get away with is 18g. With the barista pro you need to ensure there is sufficient coffee in the basket as this will determine the flow rate and temp as the water passes through the puck.



smurfine said:


> I had to stop the grinding process halfway and push down the coffee a little bit with my fingers to make space for the rest of it. Is it ok to do so?


 Although not ideal I did something similar. I stopped grinding halfway and tapped the portafilter on a mat to settle the grinds. Then continued with grinding.



smurfine said:


> By the way, is it necessary to preheat the machine by pushing the one cup button before inserting the portafilter?


 It's probably best to do this at least a couple of times and I would do so with the portafilter in the group as you want the PF to be hot as well.

You cannot leave the Barista Pro on and expect it to warm up. It doesn't work in the same way as the Barista Express. It will only get hot when in use and not when idle. That's how the thermojet system works.

3. As previously mentioned the temp of the espresso in the cup is determined by the flow rate which depends on your dose and tamp. You need a minimum of 18g, ideally 19g in the double basket. Run dummy shots beforehand as well. However if you are concerned with the temp of your latte surely this is based on how long you are steaming your milk for? Buy a milk thermometer to practice and aim for 60C in the milk pitcher.

4. If you can't get a 38g shot with a 19g dose in 30s using fresh coffee beans then you may have to adjust the top burr. Not an issue and easy to do.

5. The timer will get you in the ball park for the dose you require. You then simply add or remove a bit off coffee to get your target get dose.


----------



## smurfine (Aug 6, 2021)

CocoLoco said:


> The least you have to mess with the grounds the better but some beans (often darker roasts) take up more room in the portafilter. As long as you tap to settle afterwards it should be fine.
> 
> 1. Too vague. Have you read the sticky in the Sage forum? Following all the points there?
> 
> ...


 Thanks. As you can see in my first post I've tried several things to get a single shot, but can't manage to get a good shot. When I switched to the 2-cup basket everything was much easier, so I think I'll stick to double shots from now on 😀


----------



## smurfine (Aug 6, 2021)

HVL87 said:


> You mention you are using fresh coffee beans - the best way to gauge how fresh is by the roast date, which should be on the bag if from a good roaster. Best to use fresh coffee at least 7 days from roast date for espresso and up to a few weeks depending on roast level and storage method. You can of course use it longer than a few weeks but this can impact taste in the cup as they stale.
> 
> When you refer to total brew time how are you measuring this? Typically it's best to weigh your dose beforehand and then measure the time taken to brew a specific weight of espresso based on a predefined ratio e.g. for a 2:1 ratio you dose 19g in and measure 38g out. This should take around 30s as a starting point. You can then adjust ratio to your preference or grind finer or coarser.
> 
> ...


 Thanks 😀

There's a timer on the display which I guess shows the total brewing time. It starts approx. at the same time as pre-infusion.

By the way, is it ok to always use the hottest coffee temp? I use indian malabar beans on the hottest available temp, and it tastes really good.

If I want to adjust the top burr to a step finer, should I then adjust the external grind size as well? Example: if I had the external grind size (wheel) on 1, and the internal (top burr) on step 6 and then switch the top burr to step 5 (finer), should i then start the external grind on level 30 next time?


----------



## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

smurfine said:


> There's a timer on the display which I guess shows the total brewing time. It starts approx. at the same time as pre-infusion.


 Yep I know but are you just pressing the two cup button and letting it run (volumetric) or are you measuring the weight of espresso in the cup and manually stopping the shot?

If I remember correctly you can manually run a shot by holding down the button, letting go when you want preinfusion to end (let's say 8 seconds) and then pressing the button again when you want the shot to end i.e. when you reach your desired output in weight.



smurfine said:


> By the way, is it ok to always use the hottest coffee temp? I use indian malabar beans on the hottest available temp, and it tastes really good.


 You can do what you like 😄 taste is most important. Typically you would brew cooler with medium/dark roasts and hotter with light/medium roasts.



smurfine said:


> If I want to adjust the top burr to a step finer, should I then adjust the external grind size as well? Example: if I had the external grind size (wheel) on 1, and the internal (top burr) on step 6 and then switch the top burr to step 5 (finer), should i then start the external grind on level 30 next time?


 Have you really determined yet whether it's necessary for you to adjust the upper burr?

Based on your example if you adjust the upper burr from 6 to 5, the external grind size of 1 will now be at around 4 or 5 (rough estimate). Could be higher or lower.

Before adjusting the top burr it is helpful to move the external grind size coarser (15-20); this will make it easier to remove the upper burr.


----------



## smurfine (Aug 6, 2021)

HVL87 said:


> Yep I know but are you just pressing the two cup button and letting it run (volumetric) or are you measuring the weight of espresso in the cup and manually stopping the shot?
> 
> If I remember correctly you can manually run a shot by holding down the button, letting go when you want preinfusion to end (let's say 8 seconds) and then pressing the button again when you want the shot to end i.e. when you reach your desired output in weight.
> 
> ...


 I just pushed the button, but I weighed the coffee before/after. The weight before was 18 and after 36, so it looks right.

I guess I'll always be using medium/dark roasts. Will the hottest temp ruin the coffee in some way? I think it tastes good.


----------



## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

smurfine said:


> There's a timer on the display which I guess shows the total brewing time. It starts approx. at the same time as pre-infusion.


 Run the shot manually, don't just press the button and stand back. Press (two cup button) and hold for however long you want the preinfusion, let's say 7 seconds, then release and run your shot for say 29 seconds. Press the 2 cup button again to stop he shot, you have your 36 seconds. Play around with these numbers, maybe you want a 38 second, maybe more, may be less.


----------



## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

smurfine said:


> I think it tastes good.


 Then you've won! That's the only metric that matters.


----------



## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

smurfine said:


> I guess I'll always be using medium/dark roasts. Will the hottest temp ruin the coffee in some way? I think it tastes good.


 No it won't ruin the coffee. What you enjoy matter most. Typically higher temps extract a bit more which you don't necessarily want from a darker roast (bitterness/astringency).

It won't do any harm though.


----------

