# Hi



## Stueyg

Hi All,

As with many, this is my first post after just browsing for a while. I'm amazed at the wealth of information available here and the help offered by all. Having spent a while researching I will be getting a Gaggia Classic hopefully this week (in the end I was limited by budget and size, as well as "selling" it to the better half, but I expect the mods and upgrades will not be long in coming as the addiction takes hold!). Looking forward to experimenting with coffee

EDIT - Hmmm, my bad, I had already "introduced" over a year ago (sorry forgot and didn't realise until I saw the post count after I submitted) - was it really that long ago! Oh well, finally taking the plunge and getting a machine.

Stu


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## chimpsinties

Glad to hear you've settled on a machine. I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the Classic. Great little machine.

What you going to do for a grinder? That's probably more important than a machine.


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## Stueyg

Hi Chimpsinties,

I spent months drooling over some of the machines you can get, but in the end dreams had to give way to common sense as well as budget, space and the other half. Maybe sometime in the not too distant future

The Classic seemed like the best option to go for at this stage. The next step up is the Silvia, but the benefit of the bigger boiler (I think pretty much the biggest difference once you make the steam wand mod on the Classic - although probably opening myself up for lots of corrections there!) did not really seem to justify being pretty much double the price. You can add a PID, Silvia steam wand and do the OPV mod on a Gaggia and still spend less than a new Silvia. Buying a new Silvia and then adding a PID takes you into low end HX/double boiler territory price wise, so kind of seems pointless.

Regarding the grinder, I quite like the Vario, but its a bit more than I think I can justify at the moment, and I've read that there can be problems with the setting "slipping" during the grind (not sure how justified that is). I see you have one, is this something you have ever had an issue with?

I'll probably go with an Iberital MC2, which I think is the cheapest "recommended" machine. The other option is second hand from ebay, but cautious about buying second hand without knowing what to look for in terms of potential problems, also a quick look does not really turn up anything cheaper but better (at the moment).

If anyone has any recommendations for any other inexpensive, but suitable grinders (ideally new so I have the peace of mind a warranty provides), I'm open to suggestions. I have a had a look at the "Grinder Prices" thread, just not sure if anyone had any other options that might be worth considering.

I have a cheapish burr grinder at the moment that I am pretty sure from what I have read on the forums will not really be suitable, but might just get me by until I get something proper. I am aware of the importance of the grinder but I have a political game to play with the better half, who does not appreciate the science/art behind brewing espresso (I like to think I understand the theory from everything I've been reading, but not had a chance to put into practise yet). I guess I'm not quite the salesman that some on here appear to be (something I think I will need to work on as the addiction grows)


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## thomss

You'll have a lot of fun with a Iberital MC2 and Classic, enjoy!


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## repeat

I started with common sense (Silvia and rocky) and a sceptical wife. Now she has a love hate relationship. She loves the coffee so much we upgraded to a duetto a couple of years ago and are now going to get a speedster (2 month waiting) - yipee! She hates the fact she can't drink coffee on the high street with friends because it is so bad in comparison to home! Good luck with the purchase!


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## chimpsinties

I've never had any sort of problem with the Vario. I think what they're talking about is that the micro adjuster isn't as "clicky" as they'd like so there might be a chance that it could slip between settings. But even if it did it really woulnd't be the end of the world because the micro setting is so fine anyway so I doubt you'd even notice. Like I said, never happened to me anyway.

I'm sure you'll be fine with the Iberital to begin with. You are aware you can't really change between brewed and espresso on the MC2 aren't you?

Also, as you're buying your classic new, you've read all about the pressurised basket/protafilter haven't you? And the steam arm upgrade is worth it's weight in gold. Really improves frothing no end.

Where are you thinking about getting coffee from?

What are you going to do for a tamper?

Have you got any digital 0.1g scales?

So many questions, when will they ever end?


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## Stueyg

Repeat,

LOL, and so the slippery slope begins

Chimpsinties,

Thanks. The ability to switch between brewed and espresso was one of the things that drew me to the Vario, I've also read its very good at not retaining grinds internally. However. I don't really drink a lot of brewed, so I don't think this is that critical to me (but a "nice to have" if budget can stretch). Not sure if its possible to mark the settings on the MC2 to return to a "favourite"?

Yes, I'm aware that it comes with the pressurised baskets (thanks), and have a single and double non-pressurised basket on my "accessories" shopping list. I also gather that that is one reason the OPV mod is needed - to adjust the the pressure from the factory set for ESE and the pressurised baskets to ground with non-pressurised. Although not sure if my "uneducated" taste buds would notice any difference - one for the experiments and tweaks to see what changing things does. I also have a bottomless portafilter on the list to help me see what is going on during the brew (but probably not much point until I get the decent grinder). I definitely had the steam wand upgrade on the list

Where to get coffee from, now that one I have to admit I had not really looked into too much yet, and will probably need to try a few to find one to my taste. Hush my mouth, but to start with I might try supermarket (did I really say that, sorry for the offensive language!), or Costa, which I know people on here say they like and I like from the cafes. However, looking forward to trying different ones (from a proper supplier) to find a nice one. Not sure if there are any recommendations (alhough I apprecaite its a matter of personal taste), at the moment I tend to go for milk based drinks, but if I start managing to make half decent espresso, that might change.

I have a 58mm flat Motta tamper (part of a set - stand, tamper and holder) on my list, seems OK, I know there are loads of lovely deisgns out there some going for silly money, but unless anyone says different I think this should be OK to replace the plastic one that comes with the machine.

Also got a knock box, shot glasses, milk jug, and thermometer on the list, but no scales (yet!). I've also been looking at the Auber PID (with steam and pre-infusion - try to make the process easier for the other half, and me when I'm in a hurry), but might be getting ahead of myslef there. Got the bug and haven't even got the machine yet!!! Might just start with the basics...


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## chimpsinties

I'd definitely hold off on the PID for now. That's very advanced stuff right there.

I was only asking about tamper in case you were planning on sticking with the basic plastic one.

If you get your grinder from HappyDonkey they'll probably throw in a bag of beans for you to try. I'd suggest somewhere like coffeebeanshop.co.uk as they'll roast them fresh and not break the bank. they do a deal where you get 4 bags for £15 + £4 P&P so all in about a fiver a bag. Not much more than "posh" stuff from the super market (spit) but a million times better. It's all in the freshness you see, that's time from roasting regardless of how "foil fresh" they say they are in the super market (spit) they've probably been sat in a warehouse or on a shelf for months.

Sounds like you've got the accessories sorted. I'd say you could hold off on the naked PF if you were short of money. It's a nice to have but not really necessary. Also, you'll probably realistically never use a single basket. Maybe just once to see. I actually use mine as a tamper stand









Scales are important because you want to know you're chucking the right amount of beans in your grinder each time (don't store them in the hopper or they'll go stale unless you're using loads in a day). You can get a nice cheap set for about a fiver on ebay. Also it means you can weigh your espresso on the way out (of the machine not your body







) so you can roughly work out your TDS.

The grinds retention thing is more to do with between drinks rather than type of brew. Imagine your grinder retains a few grams of grinds, then you don't use it for 2 days. If you were to then chuck some fresh beans in it, you'd be getting a couple of grams of horrid stale grinds in with you nice fresh beans.

There's really no way to alter the MC2 as far as I know. It's a worm drive which means hundreds of turns on the tiny knob to go between grinds. You'd never get it back anywhere near where you wanted to. Well, you probably could if you counted accurately but would you want to? I doubt it.


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## jimbow

Also worth looking at are HasBean and Square Mile. These both roast to order and post out to you and offer subscriptions too.

As Chimps said, freshness is key with coffee and unfortunately supermarket and the Costa coffee tend to sit on shelves for quite a long time before they are opened. They also do not tend to carry a roast date on them which makes it difficult to tell how old they are. Generally, most people tend to consider anything over 3 to 4 weeks past roast old and pretty stale.


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## lookseehear

repeat said:


> now going to get a speedster (2 month waiting) - yipee!


You nutter! What grinder will you be pairing it with?


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## repeat

Managed to get hold of a second hand Elektra Nino. Way over the top for my needs/ability (nino+speedster) but I can't help myself. You only live once or so I'm telling myself. Just about got the space for it as no overhead cabinet.


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## Stueyg

Thanks all for the help and advice.

HappyDonky is the most likely place for the grinder, they seem to be the cheapest about.

Added the scales to my shopping list Makes perfect sense.

Not too bothered about changing the grind setting, like I said I probably wouldn't use it for much else than espresso.

Thanks for the tips on bean sources, I'll have a look at those.

Had a look at the Speedster - nice machine, I think I had better start saving and working on the "sales pitch" to the mises (as well as practising, better not run before I can walk!!). And maybe a bigger kitchen

Thanks again to all for the help, really appreaciate it.


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## chimpsinties

It's all about practice. A newbie would probably make a horrible first few shots and what ever machine you put them in front of. It's an ongoing process to a) get used to your equipment and b) get used to have coffee should taste. Get away from this idea that Costa or Super market (spit) beans are ok.

Enjoy the journey.


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## Stueyg

Cheers. Don't worry, any thought of supermarket or Costa beans has been well and truely quashed

Not expecting anything great from the first shots; but as you say, hopefully as I get used to the equipment and techniques (along with all the helpful advice here) things will progress.


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## repeat

Buy extra bags of coffee to dial in, practice on and taste (don't necessarily drink or you could get a bit twitchy) everything. I agree, stay with the proper roasters (hasbean, square mile, etc) as it makes a huge difference. The smell of the non fresh stuff is not good once you have used good coffee for a while.


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## chimpsinties

RaveCoffee are my supplier of choice at the moment. Mainly because they do free P&P if you spend over £25. I share my order with a colleague so we get 8 bags at a time working out at about £16 each. So that's great if you can get someone to club together with you for an order.


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## thomss

That's exactly what me and a friend are doing 3 bags each every 2-3 weeks of Rave Coffee, had some good beans so far too!


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## Stueyg

And the help just keeps coming Thanks all, will have a look at the suggested suppliers, and fully expecting a fair amount of wastage at the start.

I quite like the look of the subscriptions, seen it mentioned before and was confused as to what people were on about (thought there was some sort of CoffeeForum magazine initially OK, spot the noob!), but then read the info on the beans forum. Great idea to try lots of different types, but need to have a look at which subscription will suit me best.

Such a wide range of coffee out there, so confusing, not sure what to try!!! I know taste is a personal matter, but I don't suppose anyone has any suggestions of a decent one to try for getting me started - I have a farily sweet tooth, so probably something with a sweeter taste. As I said in an earlier post, I tend to have more milky drinks; but with the potential of getting decent, fresh espresso from a machine, I might start drinking more neat espresso. Not sure if the type of drink affects the type of bean that goes best?


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## thomss

Give it a few weeks mate you'll be brushing your teeth with espresso and chewing on beans for a laugh, whilst dipping coffee pucks in a cup of tea.


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## chimpsinties

Don't sign up for anything yet. Just buy some bags as and when you need them. Get about 3 or 4 at a time so they don't hang around too long going stale. Your idea of great tasting might be totally different to someone elses. Just experiment a bit with different regions. That's why I suggested coffeebeanshop.co.uk because it's a no fuss deal that gets you a few different coffees each time you buy it and it doesn't break the bank


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## Spazbarista

thomss said:


> That's exactly what me and a friend are doing 3 bags each every 2-3 weeks of Rave Coffee, had some good beans so far too!


Me too. Top tip: get a big bag of Harrar, and an equally big bag of of El Salvador Sante Adelaide. Mix 50/50, 18g and you'll get a fantastic flat white espresso.

He's got some nice Old Brown Java in at the moment and some Guatemala (Santa rosa?) that is very nice.


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## chimpsinties

I'm really looking forward to trying the Kenya Peaberry that I'm going to open tomorrow. They've not had that in stock for ages.

Also this time I got a bag of their swiss water decaf and you know, it's really not that bad. Very dark though, almost black.


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## RobD

the iberital MC2 is a very good machine for espresso for the price and once the burrs have settled in you will get very little clumping/lumps in the grind which makes tamping lots easier i think i have a pic of the grind,










the MC2 only has 2 real downsides, one its butt ugly and two your wrist will fall of if you ever tried to switch between espresso and brewed, but this is the best bit as well, as you can adjust your shot time by just a few seconds very accurately thanks to the very fine worm drive, i have had mine for quite a few months but upgradeitis took hold and i was starting to think about a Compak K3 touch, but after reading some of the reviews and seeing some of the marbles it produces i think i will stick with the MC2 . unless you are willing to spend around £300 for the likes of a vario or similar you wont find much that is significantly better.


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## Spazbarista

The decaff is a funny one, and I agree that it is not bad at all. It comes out deceptively dark, but if you ask Rob about it, he'll explain why. The decaff process does alter the greens. They are quite strange to look at.

Not had the Peaberry since last year, and he was still working out an optimum roast profile for it. He's awaiting an exciting looking Yirgachef that is not the same as the one listed now, but at the moment it's the Harrar that is floating my boat. It is so versatile.


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## dan1502

repeat said:


> I started with common sense (Silvia and rocky) and a sceptical wife. Now she has a love hate relationship. She loves the coffee so much we upgraded to a duetto a couple of years ago and are now going to get a speedster (2 month waiting) - yipee! She hates the fact she can't drink coffee on the high street with friends because it is so bad in comparison to home! Good luck with the purchase!


Does that mean there will be a Duetto coming up for sale soon?


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## repeat

Yes - expecting to get the speedster installed week of 5th November (being built the week before and apparently Kees is never late) so would be looking to sell around that time (a week before max as my wife would kill me). It's a mark II which I bought new from BellaBarista in August 2010. If you are interested let me know and I can send you some recent pictures.

Paul


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## Jason1wood

What sort of price bracket would the Duetto be, looking to upgrade my Classic? :thumbsup:


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## repeat

Brand new from BellaBarista it's £1649 (last time I checked). I haven't thought about what I'd sell mine for yet.


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## Jason1wood

Ouch, think this'll be well above my bracket. Haha


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## Stueyg

Hi all,

Just wanted to say thanks again to everyone for all the help and advice.

Well, that's it, all ordered, just wating on delivery now. Some bits arriving today, but unfortunately the machine will not be here until next week:waiting:

I went for a bag of Ethiopian Harrar 4 Longberry and El Salvador Santa Adelaida as suggested by Expobarista (thanks for the tip) - I can try the 50/50 mix as well as the coffees separately. I also went for a bag of Peru Cafe Femenino Cecanor. The "in the cup" description looked to appeal to me (its how I buy a lot of wine, and even though I rarely pick up on all the flavours they go on about, I usually end up liking it). Probably more coffee than I will drink before it starts to go stale, but expecting to "waste" a bit dialling everything in and practising.


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