# So... Chaps... Recommend me a machine!



## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Hey all.. May I start by saying happy new year.

2012 was the year that the whole coffee thing really kicked off for me. I had always enjoyed an ok cup of coffee, but having used a bean to cup machine a friend loaned me, I'd just assumed that was as good as coffee needed to be (certainly a huge step up from Starbucks).

But when a friend gave me a gaggia carezza for free, things got serious. I soon became tired of pre ground beans, and got an mc2 for christmas. Now having dialed it in, I'm getting lush, creamy 25 second pours and some great tasting coffee. I've gone from having one shot in a large latte (as it was all I could enjoy) to having two shots in a 9oz cup. Simply because the shots are sweeter.

However, (there's always a however), the gaggia is not without flaw.

- temperature stability, is a tad hit and miss. I need to temp surf to get the most from it, such as pulling water through the brew head, or hitting steam switch for a few seconds. But this is unpredictable and yields variable results.

- steam power. We drink mostly lattes here, maybe two each a day, and steaming on the gaggia is a pain. The rancilio wand helped, but it runs out of puff easily and usually leaves me with watery foam.

- no OPV on the carezza, so have to wait between shots if I don't want to make a huge mess.

- it's fugly lol

So I'm looking to move up. I'm not convinced a rancilio silvia is enough of a step up, and doubt its steaming is a huge amount better, but I'm happy to be corrcted on this. So I was thinking along the lines of a fracino cherub, or if I'm lucky, a used rocket Cellini classic.

I like the chrome, vintage looks of these kinds of machines, rather than the plastic flashing lights look of some other machines. But again,happy to be told otherwise.

I'd also like something easy enough no use, reliable and with decent manufacturer backup for spares etc

Your thoughts gentlemen?


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

If you are mostly into milk drinks you really ought to consider a double boiler. A good one will give you masses of steam & enable you to produce espressos almost continuously.

You are obviously not new to espresso but can I direct you to the Wiki where you will now find the excellent review with current prices of what is available.

Once you have set your budget & consider a short list put it up in a post & I am sure people will comment on the '+/-' of each machine

BTW a Silvia will also limit the number of milk based drinks. It has much more steam than the Classic but still limited.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Which is why I'm not considering a silvia really. But only looking to make two lattes at a time. So don't think I want to go the double boiler route. I think a HX is the way forward for the volume I use. But aside from the Cellini, cherub and Oscar, I don't really know what HX machines are out there


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

I had an Izzo Vivi for a long time which served me very well with its single boiler.

The Mk 2 has PID control. It is a very robust machine & the PID means no/little temp surfing. Circa £1000/£1100. Its a very 'shiny' machine!


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

As you know, I'm in the market for a new Cherub this year. The fact I will be able to steam milk and extract coffee at the same time is very exciting.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I bet you end up not extracting and steaming at the same time. If you get a bottomless PF its irresistible to watch the entire extraction. What is very nice on the cherub is the immense steam power and very little recovery between steaming (if any). Can I recommend you take a look at espresso underground as a possible retailer. Peter is so helpful and will give you a discount if you mention my username 

Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk HD


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Ta chaps. T he cherub still seems like the winner, I just have mild Concerns regards build, reliability and longevity


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Put those concerns to rest. Any Cherub owner (and there are quite a few on the forums now) will attest to the rock solid build quality and commercial components of the Cherub. Its basically the same group as they use on their commercial machines.

Boiler is all copper (the best material for boilers) and the mechanical pressure stat sounds so solid when it kicks on and off. Literally I have no concerns at all about the longevity.

Since I got mine it has not missed a beat. Brew temperature always seems spot on (as long as group is up to temperature) and you never have to wait for steam. Happy to answer any more questions you might by PM?

P.S. I not biased.... honest....


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Haha ta,. Yeah I likely have a tons of questions about getting the best from a machine like that. I should probably stick them in a pm


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## mike 100 (Jul 15, 2010)

sandykt said:


> As you know, I'm in the market for a new Cherub this year. The fact I will be able to steam milk and extract coffee at the same time is very exciting.


Sandy, thought I read that you were going over to the dark side... Bean to cup machine, but a Cherub! thats more like you


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

mike 100 said:


> Sandy, thought I read that you were going over to the dark side... Bean to cup machine, but a Cherub! thats more like you


LOL, it was an illness. I have fully recovered after realising the amount I would spend on a B2c machine would get me the set up I had always been dreaming about (well almost!).

A Cherub has my name written all over it. Just need to source a grinder to compliment it now.


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

shrink said:


> Haha ta,. Yeah I likely have a tons of questions about getting the best from a machine like that. I should probably stick them in a pm


Please share the questions and answers as these will help future owners (and me as well!).


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

sandykt said:


> Please share the questions and answers as these will help future owners (and me as well!).


I'll forward you the PM I sent to shrink


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## Antibubble (Oct 23, 2011)

Hi, I really like the Cherub also. I hope i'm not asking the same questions, if so sorry; but -

What is the warmup time before a shot can be pulled?


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

The steam boiler is up to pressure in minutes. However I find the machine really benefits from at least 40 minutes and preferably an hour for the group to stabilise and the thermosyphon action to get properly established. I have mine on a timer set to switch on 1 hour before I need it in the mornings.


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

Got great prices for Cherub here

http://www.thecoffeebean-vanandroaster.co.uk/Heavenly---Cherub.html

Andy


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

thanks for this. Will be examining all the possibilities and making a choice in feb. I'm sick of the carezzas foibles. Least of which is the drip tray (and they mean "drip").


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## Charlie B (Jan 10, 2013)

fatboyslim said:


> I'll forward you the PM I sent to shrink


Seriouslt considering this myself, could you please forward me the pm too? would be much appreeciated, THanks.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Would you rather have a brand new Cherub or a lightly used Expobar Leva?


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Charlie B said:


> Seriouslt considering this myself, could you please forward me the pm too? would be much appreeciated, THanks.


I've forwarded you that pm


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

shrink said:


> thanks for this. Will be examining all the possibilities and making a choice in feb. I'm sick of the carezzas foibles. Least of which is the drip tray (and they mean "drip").


Londinium I.

Like a Cherub with a fucking great big handle.

Makes the best coffee.


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

Language Timothy!!!! LOL


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## Sticky (Jan 10, 2013)

Alex Duetto for me, great control of the temperatures, decent steaming capacity and as close to a commercial machine, without the huge tank sizes of these machines.

I tried loads of different brands and kept coming back to this model for the consistent milk micro foaming (although you have to throw the no burn tube away to get the performance).

The only downside is the low clearance between the group and the drip tray, if you make mugs of coffee you will probably be transferring from a shot glass.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

I ended up getting a Fracino Cherub









but thanks for pitching in


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## Charlie B (Jan 10, 2013)

Thanls for the PM Fatboy, sorry about the late reply. I'm moving away from the Cherub but thanks for the advice,


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## rharrison163 (Oct 1, 2013)

I dont think you can beat the Rocket R58


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