# Extraction and dosage confusion



## dare (May 1, 2013)

Well firstly I'd like to say hi to everyone, fantastic forum you have here, I'm impressed at how helpful and polite everyone appears to be. Well I'm new to the world of espresso making, and have spent a lot of time researching techniques etc on these forums and now I'm concentrating more on perfecting the espresso shot I'm getting more overwhelmed by the information out there. My question is what kind of measurements should I use as a benchmark for BOTH single and double shots? The gaggia manual says *7g grinds in, 1oz out, 15secs* or *14g in, 2oz out, 25sec*. My research which appears to use far more coffee for much less volume than gaggia state led me to the conclusion a 50% ratio might be a good start so: *16g in, 32g out, in 25-30sec*. I contacted hasbean for bean recommendations and they suggested a whopping *18g in, 25-30g out, 25-30secs.* This seems like an awful lot of coffee for very little volume is it necessary? good for their business maybe but costly for me. I'm becoming increasingly confused PLEASE HELP! With 16g of coffee my double basket is full, I always thought a double espresso is 60ml but it seems the above figures use a full double basket to give a quantity closer to a single espresso (what I thought was 30ml). Oh I'm using a gaggia baby, mc2 grinder as well, non-pressurised baskets.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

All those figures are right - they just suggest a different approach to espresso.

Certainly if you are using 'third wave' roasters like HasBean or Square Mile the recommendations will be to dose high (sometimes up to 21g) and pull short, if you are using traditional Italian roast coffee the Gaggia figures will work. In many new coffee shops now the phrase 'double espresso' does not mean very much; whether you ask for a single or a double you will get between 18g and 21g of coffee pulled into something between a traditional single and a double.

Yes indeed, these trends are good news for the roasters. In the end it is up to you to find the sort of espresso you enjoy.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

A bit of this going around the forum at the moment. I think the things is to not worry about terminology and trying to make a single or double. Irrespective of the amount of dry input you want somewhere between 1.5 and 2.0 times the input in the final wet weight. There is no right or wrong amount as it will be down to personal preference. Part of dialling in any coffee is dialling in your taste buds to what you like.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Totally agree do not get hung up on the parameters, I have 1.5 oz doubles from my lever, I used to do a similar shot volume from a commercial one group. It is all down to taste in the end. If you like the shots short pull them short if you like them longer pull em longer, just find what YOUR pallet wants


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

Hello and welcome, dare.

A key point to get hold of is that 1 ml of espresso does not weigh 1 g as is the case for pure water. Espresso is a mixture of mostly water, oil and gas and weighs significantly less than water. This is why some people use scales to weigh the espresso out rather than just rely on volume measured in a shot glass.

Therefore, weight and volume mean different things for espresso, so we need to be clear which one people are talking about at any time...


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## dare (May 1, 2013)

Well thanks for the replies so far, painty I'm using scales and going by weight rather than the volume. Well the consensus so far seems to be that all those figures I mentioned aren't necessarily incorrect, there is no rule book of right and wrong just different tastes, different techniques. Maybe then if I stick with the plan of a 50% ratio as a starting point. So this leads me on to a problem I've experienced switching between single and double filter baskets:

Yesterday I was aiming for this 50% ratio so 16g of coffee in, in the end my target of 32g of espresso ended up as 42g due to drips, but it came out in only 17secs so way to fast, although actually tasted great. After that I tried 8g of coffee in the single basket (grind and tamp pressure pretty much the same) aiming for 16g of espresso. I got my 16g but it took 31secs, I couldn't understand it. Have others expreienced this? The fact that a single and a double basket seem to work differently, it almost appears as if the single basket requires a coarser grind than the double. If so can I just use my double basket for the smaller 'single' 8g doses?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Key parameter to watch for is extraction time - 27 secs is perfect to get the best out of the dose. 30-50ml from 16grm is fine - especially if it tastes great to you. Never found using single basket produces same depth and richness of flavour a double produces. Suggest you stick with the double basket and experiment around the dose - upping it a bit but keeping to the 27 sec extraction time and see if you think the flavour/depth changes to your satisfaction or not. Definitely can't use a double basket for 8grm dose - basket is not set up for this.


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

dare said:


> painty I'm using scales and going by weight rather than the volume.


Ah apologies for the overbearing post in that case - thought there was some confusion from weight vs. volume, but clearly not


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