# Is it worth upgrading?



## ClaretAnt (Feb 19, 2010)

I've been itching to start another newbie 'new machine' thread since I started obsessing over coffee sites and fora during half-term last week. Since a good few posts seem to have been mislaid in the server-move, I think it's even more important that I now do my bit.

I really enjoyed reading Rowlybum's thread from last month. I had a pretty similar starting point and was heading in a very similar direction. I've bought into the idea that the beans are more important than the grinder, and the grinder more important than the machine, so I've been checking out the coffee supplier links on here and have just ordered an Iberital MC2 that should be here in a day or two.

The accompanying step was going to be investing in a new machine, and I figured I'd go with the almost ubiquitous recommendation of a Gaggia Classic. We're reasonably close to the former Gaggia outlet (now Caffeshop) at Castleford, so we had look in the other day. A 'nearly new' classic was £199 (though the model in stock had fairly worn switches so I think their interpretation of 'nearly new' is probably fairly liberal). They also had a Coffee Deluxe at £125, and my wife felt that 80-odd quid just save to save a few drips (which was basically how the difference between a solenoid and mechanical valve was explained) was an unnecessary extra expense. But then she never makes the coffee, so doesn't have to scrape the soggy gunge out of the basket before loading up again.

I'm now wondering though whether I should even bother with a new machine at the moment. I've got a Magimix Expresso & Filtre which I picked up new about 18 months ago for about £100, but the current model retails at about £250. I never use the filter side and the steam wand leaks like crazy. Since I've been learning a little more about espresso I realise that most of the time I wasn't using a fine enough grind of coffee and wasn't tamping firmly enough. I now find I can get something that looks and tastes a bit more like coffee-shop espresso, but sometimes at the expense of water leaking from the portafilter as well as the steam wand unless I lean on the machine and tighten it really hard.

So what I'm wondering is whether to stick with the machine for now while I experiment with beans and the new grinder, then make the leap to a significantly more expensive machine later if I still have the enthusiasm, or would I be likely to find that a Classic (or similar) would make a big enough difference to be worth getting now? (And I would probably get £50+ towards a new machine by selling the Magimix on ebay.)

I haven't seen much in the way of reviews of the Magimix from knowledgeable people who can compare it with other machines, so I don't even know if it's capable of making a decent espresso, especially given that at this stage I don't even have much of an idea what a decent espresso is myself.

Which way do you think I should go?


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## LeeWardle (Nov 16, 2008)

The solenoid isn't just about dripping. You have much more control over the machine and indeed the espresso extraction. Machines without a solenoid have a rubber bung with a spring. The spring is set so that ot won't compress under the boiler pressure alone but will under pump pressure. With a solenoid the pressure ( pump) is switched off and at the same time the solenoid valve is switched to close. When it closes it opens to the drain allowing the pressurised water to release. One the "spring and bung" models when the pump stops the pressure that has built up can only be released by pushing through the coffe and will continue to pour until it drops to a level where the spring will incompress.

Espresso extraction is a precise beast a d needs to be stopped right away. Continuing to pour water through and of course with depleting pressure will result in a poorer espresso.

I would aim for one with a solenoid. Do loads and loads and loads of research before buying and you should get a bargain.

Good luck and keep us informed!

Lee

(resident engineer)


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

I put up with the Gaggia Coffee and its dripping. As soon as I see the watery blond liquid appear from the portafilter I switch off and scoot my cups to the top of the machine to keep "warm". It does drip but for £99 (from the shop at Castleford) it has set me on the road.

If I get my purchase order through in the future for a replacement machine I will probably leapfrog the Classic for something with two boilers or similar.

As you have suggested, it may be worth playing with your beans, grinder and Magimix to see what you can achieve. If it's not great then perhaps a replacement should be considered sooner.

My machine beats the highstreet chains, although not my favourite coffee shop.


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## LeeWardle (Nov 16, 2008)

Problem is it's the blonde part of the extraction you want to avoud really. Thats why a sol is a gooood idea!


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## ClaretAnt (Feb 19, 2010)

So, the Iberital MC2 was delivered yesterday, along with a free packet of Italian Espresso Blend beans and the lurid green knockout box I 'd ordered).

It has a pleasingly solid feeling, and I couldn't wait to give it a go even though I didn't get home till late last night.

The instruction sheet said that it's factory set to espresso grind, so I bunged some beans in, set it going to fill the (double) portafilter, gave it the kind of firm tamp I've been using lately with some (rather horrid) Asda espresso coffee and set the Magimix going.

It whirred and strained but not a dribble found it's way out of the portafilter spout. It just leaked water from the steam arm even more than usual.

So I started again. I notched it down to give a a coarser grind (3ish rather than 4ish on the scale on the hopper), gave it a much lighter tamp. This time I did get some coffee out, but only drop-by-drop, taking about a minute and a half to finish, with virtually nothing by way of crema. I used this to make a sort of cappuccino that was quite tasty.

My third and final attempt before bed involved making the grind even coarser, and hardly tamping at all other than to level the surface. It still took over a minute to extract a double and there was virtually no crema. It tasted much nicer than the stuff I've been drinking hitherto, but it wasn't really espresso. It was more like the stuff you get out of a stove-top pot.

I have been able to get something resembling a proper espresso out of the Magimix using an Asda brand pre-ground espresso coffee, using quite a firm tamp. Using Illy preground, the machine struggles much more: I have to use a smaller dose and lighter tamp, but I can still get a bit of a crema. They both taste crap on their own though, so I tend to make milky drinks for the wife and a little foamed milk to mine to take the bitter edge of.

The coffee from the freshly ground beans didn't have the bitterness and was noticeably richer in flavour. But it wasn't espresso. I was surprised that the first attempt literally couldn't force any water through the coffee at all, after all it's supposed to be a 15bar pump. As I say, a lot of water leaks from the steam arm. Might the pressure be being diverted that way because of a faulty seal or something?

Anyway, I'm going home now to experiment a bit more.


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

My new grinder (Mahlkonig Vario) arrived yesterday and I'm wth you on the dialling in situation. At first, my coffee machine just made lots of gurgling noises but no coffee. I set the grinder on a lower setting and started all over again - only to get coffee which looked awful. At last, I think I might be there. Gone through so many beans its unreal.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Your new grinder is capable of grinding fine enough to choke the machine (eg too fine for espresso) so therefore the water cannot find its way through a compacted (tamped) puck

Keep moving coarser until you find the sweet spot for your beans and tamp style.

It sounds like the pressure on your machine is not up to standard, therefore a new machine might be in order (based on the fact it has other problems as well)


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

Keep reducing the Fine setting - maybe a good few stops on the hopper. Once its trickling through quite quickly then slowly fine things up. You are looking for a 25 second extraction so keep tweaking.


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## ClaretAnt (Feb 19, 2010)

Wow - that grinder really does take some fine tuning.

Thanks for the tips.

I'm getting closer, but having initially backed off to a pretty coarse grind (which involved nearly getting blisters on my hand from turning the adjusting knob so many times) I've used up nearly all my beans zeroing in on the 'sweet spot'. I still think I could maybe go a bit finer. The problem is, the finer I go, the more water gets chucked out of the steam wand, and I end up with a dribble that takes ages to extract.

Here's a





of the closest I've got so far to extracting a 2oz double in 20+ seconds.

What do you think I could do to improve further? I know my tamper is a little on the small size (and it's a Jack Daniels glass not a proper shot glass!)

It's tasting OK, but a little on the bitter side for my taste. I'm not experienced enough to know whether that's my technique, a deficiency of the machine, or the beans, though.


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

You probably need to invest in a new tamper to suit your portafilter and maybe review the different techniques.

Here is a video from YouTube with one approach:






Personally I don't tap the edge to loosen the build up on the sides, since the risk of breaking the seal around the edge seems like a higher priority than a couple of extra grinds.

Do you know how much coffee you are using in a shot? I have some digital scales next to my grinder. I am trying to vary the different factors one at a time (e.g. grind setting or weight/volume or tamping pressure) and see which gives the best shot.

It may be that the beans you are using are not to your taste, so its worth experimenting. Look at the various beans posts - Glenn is also posting reviews too.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Looks like you're not tamping nearly hard enough, I'd be looking at some tamping techniques and as above, get a better tamper.

Also, that seems like a heck of a lot of force when locking the portafilter in place, if there's a problem with leaking around the portafilter it's probably the gasket on the way out.

I'd also go with glenns advice about a new machine. My guess is also the beans aren't particularly fresh.


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## ClaretAnt (Feb 19, 2010)

I've experimented with varying weights of tamp. I think I was probably tamping harder there than it looked, but as the tamper is 5/6mm too small I find I need to go round tamping lightly first to avoid the coffee squeezing up the side, before giving a final hard tamp - but I I guess I can't give a full 30lb even tamp without a tamper that fits the portafilter.

Yep - it does take a lot of force to lock the portafilter in without getting leaks. I need to lean on top of the machine and put nearly my full force to turn the handle.

If anyone else wants to suggest I need a new machine, the correct form of words is something along the lines of: " Dear Mrs ClaretAnt: the investment your husband made in a decent new coffee grinder is, frankly, wasted given the inadequacy of the machine he is being forced to use to make the coffee. I am aware that the milky drink he brings you after dinner is perfectly adequate as far as you are concerned, but you just don't understand. Don't be put off by the fact that the last time he got a bee in his bonnet about 'new kit' after wasting weeks trawling internet fora it resulted in the garage eventually being filled with five expensive new pushbikes and associated paraphernalia when one old clunker ridden till it rusted had sufficed for the previous two decades. This isn't like that at all. Once he's spent a couple of hundred on a reconditioned Gaggia Classic, that'll be that.

Mwwaaahahahahaaaaaaaa!"


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Dear Mrs ClaretAnt: the investment your husband made in a new tamper may solve the problems he is facing. By having a size too small he is placing unreasonable force on the machine and thereby shortening the life of this piece of kit. However please look kindly on this small investment, which will ultimately lead to a larger investment (which we recommended is endorsed by your goodself) and may lead to a nice weekend away / handbag / pair of shoes (delete as appropriate). In fact, it may even lead to work being done aroundd the house (very occasionally, we wouldn't want to make bold promises now would we)....

There we go, that about covers it.

Sign, seal and deliver (with a bunch of flowers)


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

Interesting to watch your video. I would be a bit worried about the steam wand leaking so much especially with a glass catching the excess water - that's not right. You have a good grinder. You should really consider a new machine. Try searching eBay, you might be lucky and get a bargain. I know it might be a sore subject to spend more money but the results will be worth it in the long run.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

ClaretAnt said:


> "Once he's spent a couple of hundred on a reconditioned Gaggia Classic, that'll be that. "


Hmmm.......


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## ClaretAnt (Feb 19, 2010)

Glenn - I trust that was the version for AFTER I've got the new machine, not instead of ??


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm liking this thread.

Is there any way to link a purchase with birthday/anniversary/promise to decorate/invite the mother-in-law to visit (stay? -







maybe extreme)/fix the leaking tap/weed the garden type of event?

Your replacement will be great, but your eye will soon wander. After following MrShades post and the Izzo Alex Duetto MkII I feel something is missing in my life


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## ClaretAnt (Feb 19, 2010)

sandykt said:


> Interesting to watch your video. I would be a bit worried about the steam wand leaking so much especially with a glass catching the excess water - that's not right. You have a good grinder. You should really consider a new machine. Try searching eBay, you might be lucky and get a bargain. I know it might be a sore subject to spend more money but the results will be worth it in the long run.


Yes - the leaky wand has been bothering me for ages. Used to have the machine on a wooden table while we were having our kitchen redone and the excess water ruined the surface despite me trying to be careful and catch it in a jug/glass. I've replaced the rubber O-ring that goes on the wand inside the screw on nozzle and that helped a bit, but not much so it must be an internal problem

I have been considering a new machine (in fact I've been considering little else!). Gaggia Classics tend to go for not that much less than the £200 the former Gaggia outlet shop want for a reconditioned model once you've included postage, so I think it would make sense to have the warranty / after sales service of a shop.


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

BanishInstant said:


> I'm liking this thread.
> 
> IAfter following MrShades post and the Izzo Alex Duetto MkII I feel something is missing in my life


I know what you mean - the Alex Duetto is a beautiful machine. This coffee hobby is expensive as I am constantly thinking about upgrades. If another one finds itself on eBay, we could find ourselves bidding against each other.


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## ClaretAnt (Feb 19, 2010)

BanishInstant said:


> I'm liking this thread.
> 
> Is there any way to link a purchase with birthday/anniversary/promise to decorate/invite the mother-in-law to visit (stay? -
> 
> ...


Tricky: my birthday was in January, so too late for that. I've got no problems with relatives staying (sister-in-law lives with us at the moment), so it wouldn't gain any credit. I just made a raised-bed in the garden to grow some veggies so I'm not doing too badly on the brownie points front, but I don't think that was a shiny machine's worth of labour. I did consider selling one of the bikes, but as the number of bikes you need is given by the formula n+1 (where n= the number of bikes you already own), I can't bring myself to do that.



> Your replacement will be great, but your eye will soon wander. After following MrShades post and the Izzo Alex Duetto MkII I feel something is missing in my life


You see that's my problem. Knowledge is a dangerous thing. I used to be happy with a nice cup of tea and a digestive.


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

After my post last night I was reflecting the lengths that I might have to stretch to.

We are attending a wedding in the summer and my wife is already perusing new dresses, so I can see a glimmer of an opportunity. A romantic weekend away is also a possible diversion.

Besides a new coffee machine, are you also stocked up on accessories. In your video I noticed you had a towel as a tamping mat. You might want to consider a mat or a stand. A knock box? New cups?


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

BanishInstant - you make me laugh!! I am on your wave length though. My husband is after building an AC Cobra so I'm thinking I could use that as a bargaining tool.....

May be I should start a new thread entitled "There's more than one way to skin a cat" - 101 ways to raise money to buy an Alex Duetto!!!


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

I hope they don't catch us scheming


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

1. Car boot sale

2. Ebay

3. Buy it and lie about purchase price!


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