# Sage Duo Temp Pro?



## jakebyrne

Hi, I'm new here. I've been reading up quite a lot on these forums and have noticed that the Duo Temp has been compared to the Classic, but there doesn't seem to be any solid reviews?

Does anyone have one?

I was looking into the Barista Express, but the mixed reviews have put me off the trail, along with the reports of the proximity of the heating elements decreasing the lifetime of the beans.

Barista Express, or Duo Temp with grinder?


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## hotmetal

I don't really know anything about these machines, but unless there are good reasons not to, I would expect most folks here would advise a dedicated standalone grinder. It will have a bigger impact on the taste of your coffee than the choice of machine, and it's something that you'll possibly want/need to upgrade in the future.


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## 4085

It is a bit like asking someone interested in making authentic Chinese food, if they would prefer to use a plain steel Wok seasoned by the fat and juices of what they cook, or a non stick coated electric wok which is really convenient.

I will answer your pm a bit later as am away out now!


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## jeebsy

Duo Temp would probably be the better bet of the two as long you pair it with a decent grinder but it is a bit of an unknown quantity


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## jakebyrne

I'm reluctant to pay out before there are some solid reviews on the table but being that the machines are so new to the UK, it may be some time.

The integral PID, auto purge etc, are all great plus points for me. But for the money, it seems like the Silvia may be a better bet. They don't come without their weaknesses either though. The £350-400 mark is a tough call.


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## jeebsy

Do Lakeland stock these yet?


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## jakebyrne

Yeah they're stocking them at £349. With their lifetime guarantee it's tempting.


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## jeebsy

Keep the receipt and you've got essentially no risk then. It breaks, get a refund. Don't like it, get a refund


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## jakebyrne

Theoretically then, what grinder would be best to pair with it in the £200-250 mark. Again, the functionality of the new Smart Grinder appeals, but longevity and consistency seems to be an issue. The other options seem to be the Rocky, Grinta, or used.


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## jeebsy

Will you be single dosing? Is size an issue? Are aesthetics important?


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## jakebyrne

Aesthetics are a factor for sure. Double shots, 1 coffee at a time, 2-3 times a day maximum.

Its not going to get abused, and certainly not over worked.

Cleaning and lack of waste is also a huge factor for me. I'm quite picky about cleaning and ease of maintenance etc.


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## jeebsy

Would you put up with something like this? http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/doggycam63/media/mazzer001_zps02ed1aa9.jpg.html

If not then a Mignon probably.


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## jakebyrne

The Mignon is definitely more to my tastes.

Seems like a good bet for the price.


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## jeebsy

There's a couple of threads where people have found good deals for them. Elektros.it if you don't mind ordering from abroad, or one that's titled ebay mignons or something


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## jakebyrne

Thanks for the advice, Jeebsy.

I'm looking for something to keep me going for a fair while and the Eureka seems to fit the bill.

The Duo Temp though, I think I'll wait and see how people are getting on.


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## jeebsy

You couldn't be tempted by one of these?

*http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?22164-Rebadged-macap-mxa-65mm-dosered-grinders-£235-inc-delivery!*


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## jakebyrne

Unfortunately, due to being new, I can't access that thread! 17 more posts to go.


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## Dylan

jakebyrne said:


> Unfortunately, due to being new, I can't access that thread! 17 more posts to go.


£235 brand new macap mxa, just to whet your appetite.


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## Beanosaurus

dfk41 reviewed one a few months ago on here see 'New Sage little machine'

The thing with that machine is that everything is proprietary - including the baskets and tamper (you might be able to you La Spaziale stuff but no one here has confirmed that), there also isn't a naked portafilter available if you wanted to tinker with one.


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## jakebyrne

Anyone else here have any experience with the duo temp?


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## Pompeyexile

Ok Lakeland are doing it for £297.49 and I have spoken to them and their lifetime warranty stands good.

For over three weeks now my Gaggia has been kaput and even with the help of a forum member and spending about £70 on it I can't get it to work even though everything I've done says it should.

Like my first ever car I have a nostalgic attachment to my Gaggia. Also like my first car when I splashed out on a Smith's heated rear windscreen, seat covers and fluffy dice, I have spent a few bob on my Gaggia extras such as better thermocouple, IMS screen and basket, brass dispersion plate, naked portafilter and even done the OPV setting. It even came with a PID and Silvia wand fitted, but my frustration is getting the better of me and seeing the Sage at that price from Lakeland may well push me over the edge.


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## migs

I took the plunge a couple of weeks ago and got one from Lakeland. So far so (very) good.

Quick question. What is the plastic insert in the portafilter actually for? Having tried pulling shots both with and without it in place, I'm not sure I see much - if any - of a difference. All it seems to do is pad out the space under the basket for reasons known only to Sage.

I leave it in just because it's there, but getting it out to clean properly is a pain.


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## Kyle548

migs said:


> I took the plunge a couple of weeks ago and got one from Lakeland. So far so (very) good.
> 
> Quick question. What is the plastic insert in the portafilter actually for? Having tried pulling shots both with and without it in place, I'm not sure I see much - if any - of a difference. All it seems to do is pad out the space under the basket for reasons known only to Sage.
> 
> I leave it in just because it's there, but getting it out to clean properly is a pain.


I'd suggest not having anything but metal, ceramic and water touch the coffee at any point.

While there's no danger of anything- why let the coffee touch anything except what it needs to touch?


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## migs

I tend to agree, but I figure there must be a reason. It looks like it might be to direct the flow equally to both spouts, but if more of the shot is hitting one side than the other anyway, it's still going to be unbalanced.

I figure my tamping skills are probably good enough to get it pretty even on the vast majority of shots, so I think I'll probably take the insert out and stick it in the tray.

Sorry about the delay, I didn't get notification of the reply despite being subscribed


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## BT Bob

As per my Intro post, after around 15 years great service, my Gaggia Coffee has packed up. I think it's a solenoid issue, but have decided to got for a new machine.

After researching the Gaggia Classic (my obvious first choice) and the Rancilio Silvia - an been put off by reviews of both the latest versions, I decide on the Sage Duo Temp Pro. As above - just ordered from Lakeland, and can pick up from my local store on Monday. The warranty was a clincher, really - its like a try-before-you-buy...

I also looked at the Sage Barista Express, but am more than happy with my Dualit Grinder, so the extra £200 over the Duo will buy a LOT of beans


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## Jerry

How's the sage fairing after a few months?


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## migs

I can only speak from my own experience, and it's mostly good, but the machine certainly has its quirks.

Firstly, I reckon the aluminium "Razor" tool that's used to dose and level actually underdoses slightly. I find there are some over-extraction problems when using the razor, which I first thought might be my tamping so I measured my tamp pressure for a series of shots and it was always about right. I use measured doses from the grinder, and find the razor will always take a few mm off the top. If I leave well alone after tamping, the extraction is excellent. I tried different grinds and amounts, but the optimum for both is where the razor then causes the problems.

Secondly, not once have I been able to get a good extraction from the single shot basket. Using the razor actually spins the coffee in the basket, rather than dosing it, so it's definitely a basket issue. I rarely pull single shots, so it's not an issue for me but may be for some. I've never used the pressurised baskets, so can't comment on those.

Thirdly, as mentioned earlier in the thread, I always get an unequal draw if I pull two separate shots from the double shot basket, with the left spout producing about 20% more than the right. I tried deliberately over-tamping one side then the other, and even turning the portafilter round 180degrees before tamping in case I wasn't consistent across the surface, but left still gives more than right.

Looking at the water distribution from the head without the basket in place shows an even throughput, so I've no idea why it happens.

Overall, though, I put these things down to getting to know your machine. If I had a Gaggia or some other brand, doubtless I'd also be making adjustments to combat the quirks of those models too.

I'm very happy with my Sage, I get great extractions, wonderful crema and a half-decent (if still only mid-high consumer quality) steam wand.

One other thing I will mention is that, when using the wand in cooler temperatures, there seems to be a build up of static which I can sometimes spot arcing across to my hand as I turn the steam off. It's quite a (literal) shock the first time! Now, if I suspect it's going to happen, I touch the jug against the wand to earth it. I still feel it a little, but it's not a problem. It hasn't happened all spring/summer, but I wait for the first one as we turn to autumn


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## Jerry

Yeah I thought the razor was a bit of a gimmick or safety net for those first getting into semi automatic machines.

The flaws sound like things I can live with so I should be ok - I don't tend to seperate my shots into different cups.

Sounds like your machine's earth wire might be a bit loose though if it's shocking you.

Cheers for the review though I'll probably end up getting one. Have only heard good things or "I haven't tried it" responses so the risk is small.

Cheers again


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## migs

Nah, it's not a wiring fault, it's purely static. I can pull a hundred shots without a problem in cold weather, but first time I use the wand and I get a single spark at the end.


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## Dylan

The razor could well be fracturing the puck and causing channeling, its a much better idea to get some scales and just weigh your input.

Nice write up on your thoughts however, have you checked the machine is level? regarding your 20% more from one side.


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## migs

I hadn't thought to check if it was level until now!









The kitchen worktop is bang on level, as is the drip tray and the top tray of the Sage.

I can't measure flush against the group head, but the outer collar (what the portafilter locks onto) is also dead level. The group head itself doesn't look to be misaligned in any way.

All measured in the actual location the machine is in when operating.

I've even gone as far as to break the complete puck to see if there's any channelling or other visible signs of a left bias, but the puck is as perfect as I've ever seen with a consistent texture and moisture level throughout.

Oh well, as I say, a quirk


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## Dylan

Indeed, perhaps a small variation in the casting causing it to prefer one side, you could always make it intentionally skewif to fix the flow, but unless its a problem not worth doing


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## jimbocz

I've never had a shock from mine, although I'm certain i will after writing this and tempting fate.


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## djedga

Seriously considering this over Gaggia Classic and Rancilio Silvia at the moment.

Delonghi Icona has just kicked the bucket meaning no espresso (boo)! but good excuse to fuel the upgradeitis (hurray)!


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## Jerry

djedga said:


> Seriously considering this over Gaggia Classic and Rancilio Silvia at the moment.
> 
> Delonghi Icona has just kicked the bucket meaning no espresso (boo)! but good excuse to fuel the upgradeitis (hurray)!


Have spoken to Has Bean regarding the Sage which they go for over the Rancilio or the Gaggia due to better comunication and service regarding parts etc. so that is also something to think about.


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## Sk8-bizarre

djedga said:


> Seriously considering this over Gaggia Classic and Rancilio Silvia at the moment.
> 
> Delonghi Icona has just kicked the bucket meaning no espresso (boo)! but good excuse to fuel the upgradeitis (hurray)!


Have you not looked in the 'For Sale' thread there is a Sage dual boiler......


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## jimbocz

Some other things to consider are that it comes with a milk jug and a plug to block the portafilter for back flushing so you don't have to buy those things.


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## Jerry

I was wondering what that plug as for!


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## djedga

Jerry said:


> Have spoken to Has Bean regarding the Sage which they go for over the Rancilio or the Gaggia due to better comunication and service regarding parts etc. so that is also something to think about.


That's interesting - just long term reliability to factor in then really...


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## djedga

Sk8-bizarre said:


> Have you not looked in the 'For Sale' thread there is a Sage dual boiler......


Having been scouring while looking at my options - That's probably too much for me - not looking to spend more than £400 and then maybe update the grinder in time.


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## Jerry

it's not something they advertise on their site but something I asked about. I am probably going to go for it because of the cooling system and lakeland's guarantee


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## djedga

Well after a bit of umming and erring I went for it picking one up tomorrow looking forward to the new toy hope I've made a good choice!


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## Jerry

Doing the same this afternoon, let me know how it goes


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## djedga

Well so far so good. Definitely a step up from the icona..

first shot I've pulled was excellent and milk texturing so much better in comparison.

here is the first drink yummy!


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## Jerry

Nice. My lakeland didn't have it in stock getting in Wednesday


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## djedga

So a few early thoughts after a couple of days ownership. Largely this has been a positive experience, definitely a step up from the icona but not without niggles...

It is a good machine for me - most of the niggles are minor and are also largely down to me still learning the machine. It produces decent coffee and frothed milk in a no nonsense no fuss kind of way.

*Positives:*

It's a nice looking machine

The built in tamper is handily stowed

The water tank is easy to fill

The design works well with a couple of shortcomings (more later)

Once the grind is dialed in it is *very* consistent. If you are consistent then the machine is consistent without having to do very much.

No need to temp surf which is nice.

The steam wand produces far better microfoam than I am used to on my previous machine, although it is taking some adjusting to get consistent (also a couple of minor niggles here (more later)

The standard accessories with the machine are plentiful and well thought out (jug, single and double pressurized and non pressurized, razor thing, cleaning tablets, steam wand cleaning tool, tamper).

*Negatives:*

Relatively little feedback / adjustability. You can't control temperature, pressure, pre infusion time. But is produces decent shots without worrying too much and it is an "just above entry level machine". If you want a real beast to tame this isn't for you. For me it is perfect. I want a good coffee without too much fiddling (getting the grind and tamp right is enough for me.... for now).

54mm portafilter - can't see any spare parts available on the sage website yet. If you make things a non standard size then at least give me the option of buying an additional double basket... (Breville do seem to have the parts so they must exist)!

If you leave the portafilter in the machine for a few hours then the basket can get stuck. This has only happened twice and I have run maybe 12 double shots.

The basket is also very snug in the portafilter meaning if you dose outside the portafilter then the coffee might get a bit disturbed in the basket when you drop it into the portafilter.

The drip tray "empty me" pops up when it is very full! First time when I went to take it out it was very hard not to spill coffee on my lovely ikea stenstorp island (aka coffee corner)! Best to keep an eye on this manually and empty after every couple of coffees.

The purging of the boiler (to get the temperature down from steaming to pulling shots) works well but gets the concealed storage tray behind the drip tray covered in steam and everything in it gets a bit wet. (Minor niggle).

The steam wand position is a little awkward meaning the jug comes into contact with the drip tray frequently therefore spoiling the foam creation a bit. (Another minor niggle this is a learning curve thing most likely)!


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## jimbocz

Another pro is that there is a lot of space under the group head so you can use a tall mug


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## jimbocz

A negative for me is that the minimum water level in the tank is about a quarter full. That means that the bottom quarter of the tank never gets used. I don't like the idea of water sitting in there for a long time, I think it goes stale. The solution is to dump all the old water out when you refill the tank, but I buy that water and don't want to throw it away


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## djedga

Agreed on both your points - the manual says to empty and refill the water for each use - very wasteful!


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## djedga

I stuck up a wanted post but no response so far...

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?27359-Duo-temp-pro-double-basket

Anyone know what size baskets fit the Duo Temp pro and more importantly where I might procure some spares?

Am only after non pressurized double as this is all I use.. Nothing on the sage website (although the breville one has spare baskets available)...

Any ideas if another brand basket would fit?


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## Jacko112

Whilst reading these reviews on the Sage they sound really good however is the durability there over the Rancilio Silvia? I must admit the Lakeland lifetime warranty is very appealing.

Now they've been in the market place for a couple of years are they standing the test of time?

I'd be really interested to hear people's views as I'm looking to buy something after xmas.


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## frothycoffeeman

It's kinda a Marmite machine. Some love it some hate it and yes the durability is called into question. But with Lakeland you get the lifetime warranty so that cover's any mishaps. Just depends how long and what you want from your espresso machine. Rancilio Silvia has a vgood foundation for it's durability but is known for being a quirky machine. SDTP and SBE get good reviews off most owners. Only seen 1 lemon review but from what I read of their reasons I'd suspect they'd been happier with a Tassimo. Myself keep swaying between the 2 lower end Sage machines the Silvia and just to be different the Simonelli Oscar. Any of those machines is a big step up from the Delonghi Scultura and tbh I would be just as happy with the straight forward Sage machine for now and then work towards something more involving after working on the wife rep alot more







.


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## Fevmeister

ive just ordered one

itll put me on until i decide which machine i want for the long term

im thinking the profitec pro 700 at the moment but until I stop changing my mind every week as to the machine i want i'll be happy to put up with the duo temp


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## frothycoffeeman

Fevmeister said:


> ive just ordered one
> 
> itll put me on until i decide which machine i want for the long term
> 
> im thinking the profitec pro 700 at the moment but until I stop changing my mind every week as to the machine i want I'll be happy to put up with the duo temp


Lol yes the endless changes. I'd be lying if I said the La Pavoni had not cross my mind on more than one occasion. The end game machine for me would be a DB more than likely the Rocket R58, but that's a good 4 years down the road. Seeing I have a stand alone grinder then the SDTP fits the bill, has alot going for it and I could start the whole upgrade ladder via the grinder then slowly convince the wife a big shiny Italian Dalek in the kitchen is a good thing.


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## frothycoffeeman

Forgot to mention the only reason to go for the Barista Express would be the PID temp control and worktop space saving. Gives you more flexibility with different beans wanting different brew temps. But the question is how many people with PID controlled machines actually have to change their pre-set PID temperatures?????.


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## JoeDorcia

frothycoffeeman said:


> Forgot to mention the only reason to go for the Barista Express would be the PID temp control and worktop space saving. Gives you more flexibility with different beans wanting different brew temps. But the question is how many people with PID controlled machines actually have to change their pre-set PID temperatures?????.


The PID temp control can be handy but it depends how much you want to experiment. Remember the SDTP uses a PID for temp stability but it can't be changed (that I know of)


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## Fevmeister

frothycoffeeman said:


> Lol yes the endless changes. I'd be lying if I said the La Pavoni had not cross my mind on more than one occasion. The end game machine for me would be a DB more than likely the Rocket R58, but that's a good 4 years down the road. Seeing I have a stand alone grinder then the SDTP fits the bill, has alot going for it and I could start the whole upgrade ladder via the grinder then slowly convince the wife a big shiny Italian Dalek in the kitchen is a good thing.


agreed, i dont think you can go much wrong with it! especially as i ordered via lakeland after they price matched peter dyson applicances

froggy summed it up well on the other thread:



froggystyle said:


> So for £130 more than a new classic, you get the following...
> 
> Pre-Infusion.
> 
> Temp Stability (PID)
> 
> Ability to steam straight after shot is pulled.
> 
> Ability to pull shot straight after milk is steamed.
> 
> Hot Water.
> 
> Better looks??
> 
> 1 or 2 year warranty?


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## jimbocz

Don't forget:

--Tamper

--blind filter

--non pressure baskets that some say are as good as after market ones

--milk jug

--water filter


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## Fevmeister

jimbocz said:


> Don't forget:
> 
> --Tamper
> 
> --blind filter
> 
> --non pressure baskets that some say are as good as after market ones
> 
> --milk jug
> 
> --water filter


throw in lifetime satisfaction guarentee from lakeland and you're off to a winner i think

Not sure why you refer to the blind filter though, theres no three way so no backflushing ???

i just hope i dont like it too much and become content with it! im eyeing up double boilers!


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## hotmetal

It's not only solenoid machines that need back flushing. E61 machines should also be back flushed to clear out the group internals. Not sure how the sage is in this regard but if they give you a blind basket I dare say they intend you to b/f it.


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## Fevmeister

hotmetal said:


> It's not only solenoid machines that need back flushing. E61 machines should also be back flushed to clear out the group internals. Not sure how the sage is in this regard but if they give you a blind basket I dare say they intend you to b/f it.


think you may be confused, e61 machines also have a three way valves

the duo temp pro also does not come with a blind basket/filter.


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## hotmetal

Ah maybe I misread. Thought you meant you only need to back flush machines with 3 way solenoid.


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## jimbocz

Sorry, should have been more accurate. It comes with a plug that lays on the bottom of the portafilter and blocks the holes. You are supposed to lay a cleaning tablet (2 included) on it and run the pump. I'm no expert but I thought that is essentially backflushing


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## Fevmeister

jimbocz said:


> Sorry, should have been more accurate. It comes with a plug that lays on the bottom of the portafilter and blocks the holes. You are supposed to lay a cleaning tablet (2 included) on it and run the pump. I'm no expert but I thought that is essentially backflushing


are you sure???????????

i dont think that is correct


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## Fevmeister

well you're correct jimbocz!! you can backflush it!

p11 of the handbook - http://www.sageappliances.co.uk/media/mediaappearance/16353/BES810BSS_UKM_IB_C15_LoRes_low_resolution.pdf


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## jimbocz

Not sure what that means about the solonoid but I am certain about the blind basket (ish) because I've done it


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## djedga

I did this process at the weekend! Some water does come through the pf spouts so I don't think it's quite as high pressure a backflush as some machines (no experience just my assumption).

I can confirm it does definitely come with the rubber "plug" as per what @jimbocz said. The plug has a very small hole underneath where the tablet sits.

I found afterwards that there were a lot of fines coming out of the group head - so I was going to do some water only backflushes at some point - I do need to get the shower screen off and clean that out too soon.


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## Fevmeister

djedga said:


> I did this process at the weekend! Some water does come through the pf spouts so I don't think it's quite as high pressure a backflush as some machines (no experience just my assumption).
> 
> I can confirm it does definitely come with the rubber "plug" as per what @jimbocz said. The plug has a very small hole underneath where the tablet sits.
> 
> I found afterwards that there were a lot of fines coming out of the group head - so I was going to do some water only backflushes at some point - I do need to get the shower screen off and clean that out too soon.


if you get chance can you post a vid of you back flushing on it. I'm

intruiged


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## frothycoffeeman

Fevmeister said:


> agreed, i dont think you can go much wrong with it! especially as i ordered via lakeland after they price matched peter dyson applicances
> 
> froggy summed it up well on the other thread:


Yes for me Lakeland's Lifetime warranty would seal the deal on any of the Sage machines. Yes all the others come with 2 years but at times I could do without the mass suicide of kitchen items, just getting over the fridge/freezer and dishwasher with the wife then buying a tumble dryer to colour coordinate with the first two lol. Just wished Breville would release the Infuser model on UK soil. Add atm the new classic been getting alot and I mean alot of hate from once loyal owners. All the goodies thrown in Sage really gives you a machine that gets you up and running without any extra over heads(bar the grinder). But seeing I'am still testing different coffee beans I'am still wandering if the Barista Express may prove more useful with the adjustable PID, even though the grinder a mute point seeing as I own one.


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## JoeDorcia

Fyi, it's not strictly a blind filter, out had a small hole in to allow water to come through slowly but hold pressure to dissolve the cleaning tablets supplied during a cleaning cycle. Once dissolved the water/cleaning solution will clean the shower screen and group head etc. I did a clean cycle on a Barista Express before doing some training on it in a store. Seemed to be pretty effective.


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## Fevmeister

Ahh


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## djedga

JoeDorcia said:


> Fyi, it's not strictly a blind filter, out had a small hole in to allow water to come through slowly but hold pressure to dissolve the cleaning tablets supplied during a cleaning cycle. Once dissolved the water/cleaning solution will clean the shower screen and group head etc. I did a clean cycle on a Barista Express before doing some training on it in a store. Seemed to be pretty effective.


Yep I noticed the hole and assumed this was to stop the pressure being too high so it might not be a full backflush throuhg all the internals...


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## Fevmeister

Strange - never heard of this method before


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## jlarkin

jimbocz said:


> A negative for me is that the minimum water level in the tank is about a quarter full. That means that the bottom quarter of the tank never gets used. I don't like the idea of water sitting in there for a long time, I think it goes stale. The solution is to dump all the old water out when you refill the tank, but I buy that water and don't want to throw it away


Just to pick up on this, when you pour new water in its not like the oldest water will only sit on the bottom. I'm no scientist but it'll certainly all churn up and get mixed?



djedga said:


> Agreed on both your points - the manual says to empty and refill the water for each use - very wasteful!


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## jimbocz

You are right that when you pour new water in, some, maybe even most of it gets mixed up with the old water. Maybe it's not a lot, but there must be some amount that just sits in the tank, getting nasty.

Not the end of the world, That's why I don't bother to throw away the quarter tank of old water each time. About every 5th fill up I'll toss that quarter of a tank of water down the drain just so there's no old stale water left.

It's no big deal, but I would prefer it if the tank was completely used up when it's time to refill it.


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## jimbocz

By the way, I use Ashbeck bottled water because scale killed my last coffee machine. Consequently, I don't think it's necessary to use the filter system that came with it. Suits me to not have to buy filters from sage from now on.


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## djedga

@Fevmeister here you go so you can hear / see the timing for steaming. Was the only angle I could get!

hope that works..

shot wasn't the best a bit of a gusher.. But gives you an idea!






Took me a while to figure out the embed malarkey from the phone!


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## joffy

Just had this delivered from Lakeland. So about the plastic insert in the portafilter.... leave in or take out?

Also was bit concerned by the "thumping sound!" when steaming milk, but having watched some youtube videos, seems that's normal.


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## cocobean

I wondered the same, so I left mine IN. I can see no instructions or video about taking it out, I suppose it acts as a funnel.

The thumping noise is the norm, it's the pump.


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## jakebyrne

Took mine out!


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## APurpleChair

Are we talking about the large black moulded plastic that completely fills the portafilter?

I presumed it was an integral part of it. Does it come out? Mine seems pretty tightly attached...


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## jakebyrne

That's the one. It's only purpose is to evenly distribute coffee between the spouts. If you unscrew the spout from the bottom. You should be able to unclip the black part from the bottom.

I took it out due to the fact that plastic doesn't retain heat as well as the steel. Therefore, it would cool the espresso upon contact.


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## joffy

I'm really liking this machine. Had the Gaggia Classic before this and was too much hassle for me. Just wanted quick, consistant coffee.


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## Burnzy

I would say its as much hassle as a classic. For a classic you needed to temp surf, but you leave on for 20mins and let pf heat up etc. For the duo temp you have to heat the portafilter in a cup of hot water for a while, due to the group head not heating up as much as a classic. Plus a few niggles with steaming on the duo temp such as having to purge quickly before auto flush kicks in for the next shot. Small niggles but has its own little routine to work around. So they kind of even themselves out as far as hassle goes... Does the duo temp make better coffee, and milk?? Hell yeah it does, no question


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## PPapa

Thanks for feedback @Burnzy.

I was thinking... With all that purging after each pull/steam, you must need to refill the tank a lot more often, don't you? Haven't owned a machine at home and not sure whether to use bottled water or trust Glaswegian water (quite soft) and the filter in the tank.


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## Burnzy

PPapa said:


> Thanks for feedback @Burnzy.
> 
> I was thinking... With all that purging after each pull/steam, you must need to refill the tank a lot more often, don't you? Haven't owned a machine at home and not sure whether to use bottled water or trust Glaswegian water (quite soft) and the filter in the tank.


no, it doesnt use alot, basically after you steam milk, you turn off your steam wipe wand and re-open steam to shoot out any milk that may of got sucked up. Its standard procedure. Unfortunatly on a duo temp, they use an auto flush when you shut off the steam after 8 seconds, but seems much quicker. So you have to wipe after the purge on it. Was thinking of doing a youtube video on making a latte on this machine as it requires a slightly different procedure to a classic and theres not alot out there.

I would use ashbeck from tescos, £1.10 for 6 litres.


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## joffy

Burnzy said:


> no, it doesnt use alot, basically after you steam milk, you turn off your steam wipe wand and re-open steam to shoot out any milk that may of got sucked up. Its standard procedure. Unfortunatly on a duo temp, they use an auto flush when you shut off the steam after 8 seconds, but seems much quicker. So you have to wipe after the purge on it. Was thinking of doing a youtube video on making a latte on this machine as it requires a slightly different procedure to a classic and theres not alot out there.
> 
> I would use ashbeck from tescos, £1.10 for 6 litres.


A video would be a great help Burnzy.


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## jimbocz

Soaking your portafilter in a glass of hot water sounds like a royal PITA. Why not just run it under hot water from the group head like the instructions suggest? I do this and it works for me to warm up both.


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## Burnzy

jimbocz said:


> Soaking your portafilter in a glass of hot water sounds like a royal PITA. Why not just run it under hot water from the group head like the instructions suggest? I do this and it works for me to warm up both.


In my opinion doing that does not get it hot enough, unless you run it for 3-4 mins... This way my cup and portafilter are nice and hot by the time i have weighed up and prepped everything else.


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## jonbutler88

Do people using a DTP with only bottled water still use the filter? It seems redundant to use it when you're not using tap water, and might filter out some of the minerals we want...


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## jimbocz

jonbutler88 said:


> Do people using a DTP with only bottled water still use the filter? It seems redundant to use it when you're not using tap water, and might filter out some of the minerals we want...


 I use bottled water and don't use the filter. Can't see the point. Works fine for me so far.


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## messier0101

Does the DTP work without any filters fitted?


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## AMCD300

messier0101 said:


> Does the DTP work without any filters fitted?


Yes, the filter is a little carbon-filled 'tea bag' and it is fitted directly into the filter assembly, which is inserted into place in the machine's water container. Not fitting it will have no impact whatsoever except that it helps reduce calcium deposits in your boiler and removes chlorine from already soft tap water.

The filter assembly and 'tea bags' are shown here, top left:


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## messier0101

Ahhh fantastic thank you. I've just ordered he DTP from Amazon and it's my first espresso machine. Really excited!


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## PPapa

messier0101 said:


> Ahhh fantastic thank you. I've just ordered he DTP from Amazon and it's my first espresso machine. Really excited!


I've seen you mentioning about Amazon student discount, fancy to share what's that? I guess it's not an Amazon Prime trial which I had few years back.

As I got a grad job sorted, I might be able to grab something as a student







.


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## messier0101

If you have an NUS card, you can sign up and get 5% off amazon plus 6 months free Prime, then half price prime thereafter. I'm doing my post-grad too, so it's worked out quite well. I got the DTP for £299 with prime.

I tried to get Lakeland to pricematch, but they couldn't, although Amazon customer service is pretty decent anyway.


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## AMCD300

messier0101 said:


> Ahhh fantastic thank you. I've just ordered he DTP from Amazon and it's my first espresso machine. Really excited!


Sounds great...there are lots of Sage resources out there to give you some idea on how to get the best from it. Not sure if you are aware but the Sage brand in the US, Canada, Australia and NZ is 'Breville'. If you haven't already done so have a look on YouTube for the Duo Temp Pro, Dual Boiler and Oracle as there are great reviews and tips out there from Breville-based Sites too, such as:

Seattle Coffee Gear: http://www.youtube.com/user/SeattleCoffeeGear

Whole Latte Love: https://www.youtube.com/user/wholelattelovetv

Sage UK: http://www.sageappliances.co.uk/tea-coffee-toast/espressoandgrinders.html

Breville Food Thinkers:






One last thought - everyone recommends getting a 'Naked Portafilter' to help beginners perfect their shots (along with a stopwatch and set of digital coffee scales). The one sold on the Sage Website is only compatible with the Dual Boiler and Oracle however some of the other DTP users on here may be able to help (@djedga)?

Hope this helps.


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## messier0101

Thank you AMCD, really appreciated that post!

I've been youtubing, googling etc the hell out of espresso machines, and I was pretty close in getting a 2nd hand Silvia with PID; but the sage just made more sense to me. I'll be looking to get a grinder soon, in the mean time I'm looking to get a "starter" pack from a reputable source (i.e. Has Bean et al) and take it from there.


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## colb16

Great post AMCD, as a newbie considering this machine it has helped a lot.


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## PPapa

AMCD300 said:


> One last thought - everyone recommends getting a 'Naked Portafilter' to help beginners perfect their shots (along with a stopwatch and set of digital coffee scales). The one sold on the Sage Website is only compatible with the Dual Boiler and Oracle however some of the other DTP users on here may be able to help (@djedga)?


AFAIK (from a quick glimpse some weeks ago) Coffee Hit might be able to cut the original portafilter for you, but Sage/Breville does not provide one. I couldn't find any other (third party) source that would sell a 54mm naked portafilter.

The same portafilter is used in Barista Express and few other models. There are few DIY (i.e. cut) bottomless portafilters. Might be worth looking further than first 5 Google results...


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## messier0101

I read somewhere the DTP can alter the temp of the PID by a degree or two, does anyone know of this? My latte etc are coming out a tad cooler than I'd like.


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## colb16

Really considering the Duo Temp pro but just wanted to check that people are still happy with it after a year or so. Only thing that's putting me off is longevity issue's. Cheers


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## jimbocz

There have been a lot of posts about trouble with the more complicated Sage machines, especially the ones with built in grinders. I'm not sure I've seen a post about a malfunctioning Duo Temp Pro. Mines been going strong since July. I'm still glad I bought it.


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## PPapa

Is it true that the group is cold though?


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## colb16

jimbocz said:


> There have been a lot of posts about trouble with the more complicated Sage machines, especially the ones with built in grinders. I'm not sure I've seen a post about a malfunctioning Duo Temp Pro. Mines been going strong since July. I'm still glad I bought it.


Cheers mate. I think I'll go ahead with the purchase, maybe from Lakeland just in case something ever does go wrong


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## jimbocz

PPapa said:


> Is it true that the group is cold though?


There's been some discussion about whether or not the coffee that comes out is hot enough. There's one guy that likes to soak his portafilter in hot water first to pre-warm it. I don't think that's necessary, the instructions say to rinse the PF with the hot water from the group head. That warms and cleans the group head and warms the portafilter.

The good news is that it doesn't have to warm up like some machines, so you can go from off and cold to making coffee in under a minute.


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## Flanners

Just fired up mine for the first time. Have pulled a double shot and a couple of single shots. I have a Gaggia Classic which has been in the cupboard for 2 years since I had my Delonghi Magnifica.

I like the Sage well built, feels robust, easier to pull a better tastier shot than the Gaggia Classic with far less hassle, I was never really that impressed with the Classic. The Magnifica is dialled in to my liking and I need to spend some time dialling in the grind/tamp with the Duo. I am pleased with the Sage and got a cracking price on it, not sure why I went for it as I was enjoying the Magnifica? Steam wand on the Sage is great IMO far better than the Classic even with Silvia mod, got some cracking micro-foam. I am waiting for some Brighton Lanes beans to arrive to give it a proper work out.


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## Burnzy

No issues here with mine!! I do have 6 year protection as i was worried about longevity also. But all good here, seems solid.

As for the pid, sage claim in there promtional video that even 1-2 degrees out can make a huge difference to taste of espresso so i assume from this that the pid stays at the exact same temprature everytime. I dont know how true that is, or if any accurate tests have been done.

I have no issue with the temprature of my coffee from this machine, people would be suprised just how ready to drink properly prepared coffee is. In no way do you want your coffee piping hot, it should be drinkable instantly.


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## joffy

Anyone had problems with the filter basket getting stuck to the group head?

I'm using the standard double basket and often when removing the portafilter the basket stays attached, with or without grinds in. It doesn't feel too loose in the portafilter.

I did remove the black plastic cup that was in the portafilter, so maybe not as tight as should be now?


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## PPapa

joffy said:


> Anyone had problems with the filter basket getting stuck to the group head?
> 
> I'm using the standard double basket and often when removing the portafilter the basket stays attached, with or without grinds in. It doesn't feel too loose in the portafilter.
> 
> I did remove the black plastic cup that was in the portafilter, so maybe not as tight as should be now?


What's your dose? You might be overfilling the basket.

Edit: never mind, I need to learn how to read. Sorry.


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## AMCD300

Every now and again I do get a puck stuck in the group head, not sure why as I use the same 18g dose in my 18g VST basket. I do back flush frequently, especially when I have a puck hanging on for dear life!


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## MarkT

Yep my barista express does that too. I found out that if you don't remove the potafilter straight away or after acouple of seconds it the puck stayed on the group head. I do flush pre and post and a wipe after with sponge. However that doesn't make any difference. Lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Coffeesprinter

So for me it's come down to:

Gaggia Classic: £230

Rancilio Silvia: £350

Duo Temp Pro: £300

I've seen a few of you mention in here that it seems to have the edge on the classic in a number of areas. Has anybody got any opinions vs the Silvia?


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## Jacko112

I think it may come down to durability @Coffeesprinter - the Sage whilst receiving some really good feedback and is starting to prove popular due to some recent price drops it's yet to show how long it'll last with the amount of electronics in side it.

The other 2 on the hand are proven stayers and are easy enough to tinker with and from what I've heard will/can last for 8-10 years providing they're looked after.

I have a one year old Silvia which is built like the proverbial outhouse & certainly produces good enough coffee for my tastes. Lots of people are opting for pre-Philips Classic's which offer really good value for money at the moment.


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## Coffeesprinter

Jacko112 said:


> I think it may come down to durability @Coffeesprinter - the Sage whilst receiving some really good feedback and is starting to prove popular due to some recent price drops it's yet to show how long it'll last with the amount of electronics in side it.
> 
> The other 2 on the hand are proven stayers and are easy enough to tinker with and from what I've heard will/can last for 8-10 years providing they're looked after.
> 
> I have a one year old Silvia which is built like the proverbial outhouse & certainly produces good enough coffee for my tastes. Lots of people are opting for pre-Philips Classic's which offer really good value for money at the moment.


Thanks for the fast and informative reply!

I was really close to pulling the trigger on a Gaggia Classic a couple of weeks back but have been concerned about what I've read on the post 2015 models. They've seemingly taken a big hit in quality from what I've read.

The Silvia was definitely my first choice after that but as someone entering the market for the first time (I'm combining a blade grinder and aeropress right now) I was wondering if it could be a bit tricky? Have been reading about temperature surfing etc. That said I like the idea of proven quality, a more industrial feel and the appearance too.

The Sage has only jumped into the equation because of the features + lifetime warranty. Due to my inexperience I've got a few worries about buying used. Sounds like that could be unfounded though with the durability you mention?


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## Mrboots2u

Temp surfing is a pain in the arse ... ( Ex silvia owner here )

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jacko112

I don't find the temp surfing a pain as it's mainly me using the machine and by the time I've ground & tamped the temp has cooled enough to pour. I agree though if you're going to making multiple milk based drinks then there's others which are quicker/easier to use.

The advice on here generally is spend as much on the grinder, if not more, than the machine. If you're budgeting for £300 then you should be able to get a good 2nd hand Classic & pick up a decent grinder - I managed to get a good condition Mazzer mini yesterday for £120!


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## jimbocz

The Silvia will take a long time to warm up and won't maintain a consistent temperature. The DTP warms immediately and has a built in temperature regulator that works.

Also, the DTP comes with a bunch of extras like milk jug, blind basket and tamper. If you add the cost of all those things to the £350 then the Silvia is nowhere near worth it.

I've never had to "read up on temperature surfing ". I just make coffee and the temperature is always right .

Sent using Tapatalk


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## jimbocz

The things that are better about the Sivia, like the fact that it will last for years and can be fixed, are not something that I care about on a day to day basis. The things that are better about the DTP make a real difference every time you make a coffee. If you buy a Silvia, you'll envy the DTP every day. I struggle to think of a reason someone with a DTP would envy a Silvia. Maybe if it was broken, but that's what warranties are for.

Sent using Tapatalk


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## PPapa

jimbocz said:


> The things that are better about the Sivia, like the fact that it will last for years and can be fixed, are not something that I care about on a day to day basis. The things that are better about the DTP make a real difference every time you make a coffee. If you buy a Silvia, you'll envy the DTP every day. I struggle to think of a reason someone with a DTP would envy a Silvia. Maybe if it was broken, but that's what warranties are for.
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk


58mm baskets/portafilters/tampers, possibility to mod (haven't seen DTP opened up yet, maybe something is possible?), such as adding PID and the looks. Not sure what looks better, DTP or Silvia though.

But yeah, pre infusion, PID and thermocoil make it quite sexy. I wonder how well do they keep their price after a year or so of use.


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## jimbocz

I forgot about the non standard portafilter size, that's one thing good for the Silvia. However, people say that the baskets that come with the DTP are very high quality so there's less need to upgrade those anyway. You can upgrade the tamper if you like, they are available.

You are also correct that there seems to be nothing to mod and therefore no reason to open it up. I see this as a positive as no mods are required to have a machine that makes good coffee. You certainly don't have to open it to add a PID, thank God because I think a Coffee machine with a dodgy square box on the side looks ridiculous.

Sent using Tapatalk


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## jimbocz

RE: Stuck Pucks

That's funny, never happened to me, not even once. I'm surprised because my baskets are a very tight fit, I have to use a spoon to get them out sometimes.

Sent using Tapatalk


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## PPapa

I'm just doing daily witchcraft on CFUK. Not saying either is better, it just seems like Silvia might fit someone who wants to mod, control the temperature (DTP runs on constant that can't be changed?) and might want some special baskets/tampers. Also, no naked portafilters are available unless you do it yourself.

I think I'd go for DTP over Silvia, but I hope I'll stretch my budget to something else once the stars align (i.e. move out and start the new job).


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## jimbocz

I'm fairly certain a naked portafilter is available, but it's really expensive.

Don't worry about it, I'm not necessarily trying to convince anybody to buy one or the other either. That would be a bit sad. I'm just trying to answer the guys question since the DTP is one of the few coffee related things I know enough about to post.

Sent using Tapatalk


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## PPapa

jimbocz said:


> I'm fairly certain a naked portafilter is available, but it's really expensive.
> 
> Don't worry about it, I'm not necessarily trying to convince anybody to buy one or the other either. That would be a bit sad. I'm just trying to answer the guys question since the DTP is one of the few coffee related things I know enough about to post.
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk


AFAIK it's for the double boiler or the oracle, both of which support 58mm portafilters (compared to 54mm on DTP/Barista Express). Still pricey, though. Around £70?


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## AMCD300

PPapa said:


> AFAIK it's for the double boiler or the oracle, both of which support 58mm portafilters (compared to 54mm on DTP/Barista Express). Still pricey, though. Around £70?


Yup - the naked is only for the DB and Oracle due to the 58mm size. 69 pounds (when in stock) from Sage UK website, or email them if not available on their website.


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## PPapa

AMCD300 said:


> Yup - the naked is only for the DB and Oracle due to the 58mm size. 69 pounds (when in stock) from Sage UK website, or email them if not available on their website.


Should have added that the Infuser also uses 54mm portafilters, but that's pretty much obvious and they aren't available in the UK.


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## AMCD300

Lifetime warranty and great coffee...Sage takes the biscuit for me.


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## Greg2041

Hi, I am considering buying this machine but I am a tad lazy and would like to use Ese pods from time to time. Can I purchase some sort of adapter to enable me to use this machine? Many thanks.... Greg


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## Craig-R872

Greg2041 said:


> Hi, I am considering buying this machine but I am a tad lazy and would like to use Ese pods from time to time. Can I purchase some sort of adapter to enable me to use this machine? Many thanks.... Greg


Hi Greg. I am not 100% sure maybe somebody with more knowledge will correct me but, I think if you were to use the single presurised basket you could get away with using an ese pod.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## Greg2041

Well that sounds great - hopefully, thank you.


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## Greg2041

No one else has commented so I will add another quick question. Could the Sage take the double shot 14g ese pods?


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## Jason1wood

Took me 2 mins on Google

https://www.goodhousekeeping.co.uk/institute/product-reviews/coffee-machines/sage-by-heston-blumenthal-the-duo-temp-pro


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## Craig-R872

Again im not 100% but If your keen to be using the ese pods it may be worth looking into getting the correct basket to use with the pods.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## Greg2041

I'll change my search engine then. i was reading some customer feedback on John Lewis website which said it did not take the ese pods so I am pleased that is wrong.

I did think the link you provided was quite scathing in terms of the machine producing a nice shot and the steam wand didn't fair any better.


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## Greg2041

I just need to find the right one for the job.


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## filthynines

Got my Sage Duo Temp coming from Lakeland tomorrow, along with a Smart Grinder. Big upgrade from my old £40 job from Currys purchased over five years ago and my manual grinder from Amazon.

Looking forward to trying out some Hasbean coffee from their starter pack, too. Just the distraction from revision that I need


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## AMCD300

Greg2041 said:


> I'll change my search engine then. i was reading some customer feedback on John Lewis website which said it did not take the ese pods so I am pleased that is wrong.
> 
> I did think the link you provided was quite scathing in terms of the machine producing a nice shot and the steam wand didn't fair any better.


I agree. I felt as if they were reviewing the wrong machine!


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## R6GYY

I've had my DTP for about 7 months now, and I really like it. I got the Smart Grinder Pro shortly afterwards as I was so impressed. The combination will hopefully last me a good while to come. The steam arm is so much better than the Gaggia and makes lovely velvety milk.

I kicked off years ago with a Bialetti stove top, then plunged for the Gaggia Baby. After 2 faults with that (one was repaired under warranty, then the same fault happened shortly after warranty end so I ebayed it for spares), I went for a pod machine - a Lavazza A Modo Mio machine with automatic milk steamer and frother. Whilst the espresso was lovely (I do like Lavazza), the steamed milk it produced was never hot enough). So after a lot of research I went for the DTP and I am not disappointed. I could potentially have gone for the one with the integrated grinder, but I didn't like that idea.

I hope I never have to use Sage customer support 'in anger' as it were, but I did speak to them about descaling (the manual says to use vinegar!) and they sent me a free sample of their "Sage the Descaler" along with instructions for use with the DTP. So that was nice


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## Spy

Ive seen reference on here to a lifetime warranty but the Sage website states 2 years ?


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## Jon

Spy said:


> Ive seen reference on here to a lifetime warranty but the Sage website states 2 years ?


Think that's something Lakeland specific. But think it's a lifetime satisfaction guarantee rather than a warranty per se.


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## Spy

Satisfaction Guarantee, doesn't quite sound like a warranty ?

I had a look on their website and cannot find any specific details about what this guarantee entails - anyone seen the small print or tested it outside the normal manufacturer's warranty period ?


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## Jon

Search lakeland on the forum. There should be some details somewhere or someone you can pm.


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## Spy

Thanks, I just did. It seems the wording for this guarantee has 'evolved' over the last couple of years. Some of the stuff people mentioned on here only a few months ago seems to have gone AWOL on the current site.

Essentially, it changes over time and there is no definitive wording to explain it


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## radam87

Burnzy said:


> In my opinion doing that does not get it hot enough, unless you run it for 3-4 mins... This way my cup and portafilter are nice and hot by the time i have weighed up and prepped everything else.


You are drying the PF before adding the coffee are you?


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## ajohn

I noticed that Hughes Electrical offer 5 years on Sage machines for an extra £50. My BE came from John Lewis. With some bits a touch cheaper at the time over some sources and a stated 2year guarantee. I assume that just like Curries etc a problem would result in a new one and maybe even the start of a new guarantee.

John

-


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## ajohn

radam87 said:


> You are drying the PF before adding the coffee are you?


I run a shot through the portafilter less the basket into the mug I am going to use. I've also tried with the basket in and also using a double shot instead - doesn't seem to make any difference but some warming definitely does.

John

-


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