# Rocket R58 from Ebay (Italy)



## Zephyr

Hi everyone, brand new member, so please do kick me if i'm posting this in a wrong section. I've been lurking around for about 2 months and done a lot of research for my next espresso machine and settled down on R58. 1st it was Expobar leva dual boiler, but then i read that its vibration pump machine and not rotary, so the choice went to R58.

So my question is, how safe is to buy from Ebay? especially from shops in Italy, I can't ignore that there is a decent deal on Ebay for R58 with Mazzer type A grinder which I'd love to pick up eventually.

here is the shop itself - http://www.ladolcevitaitaliana.com/ that sells on ebay. Has anyone had a chance to buy abroad or from that shop?? could someone give me some advice is it safe? or should i ignore it?

and another thing is that they can give businesses (EU 22% VAT) free purchase, which is another big deal.

Any advice or recommendations will be appreciated. cheers.


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## 4085

any business will let you claim the vat back by giving you a vat invoice. If your business is vat registered, then you claim it back yourself. The questions you need to ask, are firstly the reputation of the firm which will impact on how well they handle any future problems. the length of warranty, and just how you return the machine to them if there is a problem.

Expobar most certainly do a rotary version of the twin boiler.

Personally, I would rather pay a bit more and deal with a reputable UK based firm, but each to his own


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## Mrboots2u

As I advised in your other thread ..have a budget and use it to portion of an amount for a burr grinder , with a Rocket id wanting to be putting a decent grinder with it , costing a few hundred

Please pleas don;t pair a machine like this with a blade grinder...


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## aaroncornish

I would always be cautious with overseas purchases on such a significant piece of kit because of warranty complications.

What happens if it goes wrong and you have no warranty cover, or have to send it back to Italy.

Aaron


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## jeebsy

If you can make a decent saving i'd go for it. People have dealt with Maxicoffee, Elektros and a Dutch firm recently with relative success.


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## 4085

There comes a time in life, where if you want to make a decision that might have long standing implications for you, then make that decision yourself and do not ask others. All that happens is some will say go for it, some will say not. You pays your money, you takes your choice.

You will pat yourself on the back if you buy from a abroad and get out of the warranty period without a hitch, but who will you blame if you do not.


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## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> There comes a time in life, where if you want to make a decision that might have long standing implications for you, then make that decision yourself and do not ask others. All that happens is some will say go for it, some will say not. You pays your money, you takes your choice.
> 
> You will pat yourself on the back if you buy from a abroad and get out of the warranty period without a hitch, but who will you blame if you do not.


We can agree to ditch the blade grinder though !


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## 4085

No, I say if he is stupid enough to have a bald grinder paired with any espresso machine, he deserves to drink the grunge it will produce


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## mrsimba

The service before and after the purchase from Claudette at Bella Barista & their solid two year 'UK' warranty is worth more than anything you'll save in IMHO.

fantastic choice of machine tho!


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## Zephyr

Mrboots2u said:


> We can agree to ditch the blade grinder though !





mrsimba said:


> The service before and after the purchase from Claudette at Bella Barista & their solid two year 'UK' warranty is worth more than anything you'll save in IMHO.
> 
> fantastic choice of machine tho!


Does it not come with manufacturer warranty as as standard ?? and you can service the machine pretty much anywhere who deals with domestic or commercial machines. I'll save on on both around £500 alone, and if I get EU VAT off which is 22% thats another £300 on top.

And YES I'm throwing my sh*ty grinder away very soon!


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## Mrboots2u

Zephyr said:


> Does it not come with manufacturer warranty as as standard ?? and you can service the machine pretty much anywhere who deals with domestic or commercial machines. I'll save on on both around £500 alone, and if I get EU VAT off which is 22% thats another £300 on top.
> 
> And YES I'm throwing my sh*ty grinder away very soon!


Thats a good chance of money

the rocket mazzer mini branded needs that discount though , its vastly overpriced for what it is ( £700 )


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## jeebsy

Does your grinder need to be new?


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## Zephyr

Nope, I'm open for suggestions. If i can find SH for around £350. I'll take it. btw are you from Glasgow ?


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## Zephyr

Mrboots2u said:


> Thats a good chance of money
> 
> the rocket mazzer mini branded needs that discount though , its vastly overpriced for what it is ( £700 )


Agreed not worth the money, but if you can get one half price


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## Mrboots2u

Zephyr said:


> Agreed not worth the money, but if you can get one half price


then your just about paying what its worth

But SJ's go for £300

Royal's for under £400 recently

Not branded , but should better in the cup


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## froggystyle

You should deffo pick up a rocket R58, nothing beats it on the market today, maybe....


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## Zephyr

Mrboots2u said:


> then your just about paying what its worth
> 
> But SJ's go for £300
> 
> Royal's for under £400 recently
> 
> Not branded , but should better in the cup


Not familiar with them, can you send couple links please. thx


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## jeebsy

Zephyr said:


> Nope, I'm open for suggestions. If i can find SH for around £350. I'll take it. btw are you from Glasgow ?


I'm from Glasgow yeah. Might know of an SJ going second hand locally if you'd be interested in that


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## 4085

what makes a Rocket so good? If you had 3 shots lined yp in front of you, an R58and matching Expobars and Profitec, are you really saying you could taste the difference. How are you planning to evade the vat then? As far as I am aware, unless you are disabled and claiming exemption from vat on medical grounds, you have to fill in official import paperwork. I do not think it is as easy as ticking a box. You have to be vat registered. And the warranty is not the warranty. With BB, they buy the warranty out so you are dealing with them for 2 years and they mend or sort out. Most coffee equipment, the warranty comes through the importer who you probably will not know......still...your call


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## 4085

the other thing you need to be very careful of,is that every machine is serial stamped. A lot of manufacturers are now only supplying machines to authorised accounts to stop joe blogs from getting his hand on them and discounting them and causing problems further down the line. I am not saying that you cannot buy from these people but it will get harder for them. A certain nameless european website lists dozens and dozens of discounted machines. They do not stock them and it is only at the point of pressing to accept that you learn it will come from elsewhere and take a month. There is always two ways into a building, the back door and the front door


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## Zephyr

jeebsy said:


> I'm from Glasgow yeah. Might know of an SJ going second hand locally if you'd be interested in that


Oh great







and you mean super jolly right? nah only looking for doserless, Mini A or B i think. preferably A. that stall you have is on partick square right ? when is the next one ??


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## Zephyr

dfk41 said:


> the other thing you need to be very careful of,is that every machine is serial stamped. A lot of manufacturers are now only supplying machines to authorised accounts to stop joe blogs from getting his hand on them and discounting them and causing problems further down the line. I am not saying that you cannot buy from these people but it will get harder for them. A certain nameless european website lists dozens and dozens of discounted machines. They do not stock them and it is only at the point of pressing to accept that you learn it will come from elsewhere and take a month. There is always two ways into a building, the back door and the front door


I posted a link to website in Italy on 1st page. check it out. if you have an ltd you can buy vat free


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## jeebsy

I'll keep an ear to the ground for anything doserless then. Next stall is this Saturday, come and say hi if you're local


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## 4085

Zephyr said:


> I posted a link to website in Italy on 1st page. check it out. if you have an ltd you can buy vat free


You need a vat number,not a ltd company number. You have to be registered for vat in the UK. You also need to explain to the vat man how and why you are putting a domestic coffee machine throughyour business.


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## 4085

You have obviously researched this thoroughly.

https://www.gov.uk/vat-refunds-for-uk-businesses-buying-from-other-eu-countries

This explains all


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## 4085

also, if you google the company behind this, there is not much on them to be found. It is not up to them to deduct the vat for you. They have to pay vat on all goods they purchase, then claim it back then pay vat on the sales price.......unless you prove me wrong


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## Zephyr

jeebsy said:


> I'll keep an ear to the ground for anything doserless then. Next stall is this Saturday, come and say hi if you're local


Yeah sure, what time? i'm not that far ( finneston )


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## aaroncornish

Not sure about manufacturer warranty, I believe these are usually handled by the authorised distributor - not fun if you have to send back to Italy.

I am confused about the VAT thing, if you are VAT registered then you can just claim the 20% back in the UK? I might be missing something


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## 4085

and lastly, taken from their site

Prodotto inserito in catalogo lunedì 17 dicembre, 2012.

This product was added to our catalog on Monday, December 17, 2012 .

Really fillsme with confidence


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## jeebsy

aaroncornish said:


> Not sure about manufacturer warranty, I believe these are usually handled by the authorised distributor - not fun if you have to send back to Italy.
> 
> I am confused about the VAT thing, if you are VAT registered then you can just claim the 20% back in the UK? I might be missing something


https://www.gov.uk/vat-refunds-for-uk-businesses-buying-from-other-eu-countries


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## Zephyr

dfk41 said:


> also, if you google the company behind this, there is not much on them to be found. It is not up to them to deduct the vat for you. They have to pay vat on all goods they purchase, then claim it back then pay vat on the sales price.......unless you prove me wrong


Hey man, i dunno anything about what they are doing and not doing. All i can do is make them an offer, they dont have to accept it.


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## aaroncornish

I think you have to approach this very much in the mindset of 'buyer beware'.

The guys here are all raising valid points and trying to stop you walking into potential problems.

All I will say if you do decide to go ahead is *do the research* and make sure you are aware of all potential costs/problems.

Personally (and I am naturally a bit of a worrier) I would prefer to go with UK vendor who offers support arrangement and help and support at the end of the phone in my language.

Good luck with which ever approach you take, and most of all, enjoy the beastly Rocket


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## jeebsy

R58 is €2190 from maxicoffee so £1562, making is a smidge over 1300 if you can claim the vat back. They're reputable sellers.


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## Zephyr

jeebsy said:


> R58 is €2190 from maxicoffee so £1562, making is a smidge over 1300 if you can claim the vat back. They're reputable sellers.


thx man, again it wont include UK warranty then, and that is just machine and no grinder.


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## jeebsy

If not having a UK warranty bothers you then you'll have to buy UK. As others have said it's a decision for you to make but I'd buy a machine from abroad with no qualms.


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## mrsimba

Zephyr said:


> Does it not come with manufacturer warranty as as standard ?? and you can service the machine pretty much anywhere who deals with domestic or commercial machines. I'll save on on both around £500 alone, and if I get EU VAT off which is 22% thats another £300 on top.


Yes it will come with a warranty & it will need to be returned back to Italy at your expense, & at 29kg that aint either easy or cheap!

Also if your VAT registered here you'll get 20% off the retail price anyway, as said its a fantastic machine so wherever you buy from a great choice!


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## 4085

I suspect the op is not vat registered as if he was, he would understand the complexities. I also have my doubts as to the authenticity of the site mentioned. jeebsy, remind me where you bought of all of your kit from again.....the UK or the Continent!


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## r.bartlett

Zephyr said:


> Hi everyone, brand new member, so please do kick me if i'm posting this in a wrong section. I've been lurking around for about 2 months and done a lot of research for my next espresso machine and settled down on R58. 1st it was Expobar leva dual boiler, but then i read that its vibration pump machine and not rotary, so the choice went to R58.
> 
> So my question is, how safe is to buy from Ebay? especially from shops in Italy, I can't ignore that there is a decent deal on Ebay for R58 with Mazzer type A grinder which I'd love to pick up eventually.
> 
> here is the shop itself - http://www.ladolcevitaitaliana.com/ that sells on ebay. Has anyone had a chance to buy abroad or from that shop?? could someone give me some advice is it safe? or should i ignore it?
> 
> and another thing is that they can give businesses (EU 22% VAT) free purchase, which is another big deal.
> 
> Any advice or recommendations will be appreciated. cheers.


I've looked at this site myself and I can't see an issue. Also they must be getting the machines from somewhere as Rocket aren't a mass producer so should know were their kit is ending up?

I am also VAT rated and as a business owner you can reclaim the VAT back assuming the machine is for business purposes. Obviously this would be the case so



> Importing goods from ItalyA VAT-registered UK business importing goods from Italy should give the Italian supplier its UK VAT registration number (including the GB prefix) so that Italian IVA does not get charged. If IVA is charged, the UK business cannot reclaim it on their UK VAT return or by a direct claim to the Italian tax authorities. The best that the UK business can do in these circumstances is to confirm its VAT registration number to the Italian supplier, then ask for a full credit note and for the goods to be re-invoiced without IVA.
> 
> When a UK VAT-registered business imports goods from Italy from an Italian IVA-registered business, the UK business should pay UK VAT on the import by including VAT in box 2 of its regular UK VAT return, at the appropriate UK VAT rate. It may then reclaim that same amount from HMRC by including it as input VAT in box 4 of the same VAT return, subject to the normal rules about recovering input tax. The reason for this apparently circular exercise is to avoid VAT distortions between buying goods in the UK and importing them from Italy. The net value of the import should be included in boxes 7 and 9 of the UK VAT return. Imports do not get shown on EC Sales Lists, but are liable to be reported on Intrastat.
> 
> If the UK business accounts for VAT on the Flat Rate Scheme, it must still pay the full UK rate of VAT (rather than the reduced Flat Rate of VAT) on imports by including them in box 2 as above. As with other expenses under the Flat Rate Scheme, the right to reclaim that VAT in box 4 is very limited.
> 
> http://www.brighton-accountants.com/blog/vat-uk-italy/


My only concern is the warranty if the machine fails but heyho you pay's your money...


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## Tewdric

There's a lovely rotary pump Expobar in the for sale section for considerable less than £1500


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## 4085

The item was added to the website 3 years ago which makes the pricing wrong. Caveat. Emptor


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## jeebsy

dfk41 said:


> jeebsy, remind me where you bought of all of your kit from again.....the UK or the Continent!


Got a special deal on the EK/UK but everything else is second hand. If I was in the market for new kit I'd be looking abroad for sure though, great deals to be had.


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## r.bartlett

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-2015-ROCKET-ESPRESSO-R58-PID-DUAL-BOILER-COFFEE-ESPRESSO-MACHINE-/261765227956?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cf26c65b4

this is his ebay page.

Bb is £300 dearer...


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## jeebsy

You're sufficiently protected through Paypal and eBay in case it arrives fecked


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## 4085

But look T what you are getting for £300 dealing with a Rocket authorised UK based company who give a 2 year warranty that has been tested loads of times. This guy in Italy I will bet is not authorised but a grey market reseller. What do you think it would cost to return the machine to Italy, fully insured and please do not say that is unlikely! It is not always about money, though you would not think so. It is like buying from a department store in the UK as opposed to the corner shop


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## r.bartlett

Or is it I'm getting confused...??

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/rocket-espresso-r58-dual-boiler-coffee-machine.html


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## jeebsy

dfk41 said:


> But look T what you are getting for £300 dealing with a Rocket authorised UK based company who give a 2 year warranty that has been tested loads of times. This guy in Italy I will bet is not authorised but a grey market reseller. What do you think it would cost to return the machine to Italy, fully insured and please do not say that is unlikely! It is not always about money, though you would not think so. It is like buying from a department store in the UK as opposed to the corner shop


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*"We are* *legitimate resellers of all the products we sell."** -**FWIW, which is probably not much*
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Would you always expect to have to return something? The incidence of that seems pretty low, low enough that I wouldn't factor it into my cost calculations


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## 4085

That's the beauty of opinions. They all count. Let us say, Mr Hindsight is once again the only person who will ever know if you have done the right thing or not.


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