# New ECM machine. Puristika



## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

No steam, small footprint. Looks like an e61 group... could be interesting... (apologies for linking to HB it's all I can find on it so far)

https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/ecm-puristika-t61132.html?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

It's a looker that's for sure

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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

KTD said:


> It's a looker that's for sure
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Damn right


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Any idea of price?

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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

joey24dirt said:


> Any idea of price?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Not a clue mate. I'd hope no more than a grand though.. imagine this in a camper?


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Cooffe said:


> Not a clue mate. I'd hope no more than a grand though.. imagine this in a camper?


First, I imagine a camper...


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

Hasi said:


> Cooffe said:
> 
> 
> > Not a clue mate. I'd hope no more than a grand though.. imagine this in a camper?
> ...


 Then imagine it in a camper...


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Hasi said:


> Cooffe said:
> 
> 
> > Not a clue mate. I'd hope no more than a grand though.. imagine this in a camper?
> ...


 Where are the wheels and I don't think I would fit in it.

John

-


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## CoolingFlush (Aug 4, 2019)

Phwoaar!!


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

ajohn said:


> Where are the wheels and I don't think I would fit in it.
> John
> -


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

It's good but I'd definitely miss making milk

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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

joey24dirt said:


> It's good but I'd definitely miss making milk
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I don't think I'd worry too much tbh. If they could pull it off I'd definitely have one to save countertop space... also if it has a rotary pump the Mrs would love it for my 5:30am coffees!


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

@Hasi do you think this would suit you for new beans at the roastery? Surely an ideal candidate AND they're German so closer to Austria


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

Also comes in white.


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

Wont be long until we see lots of this posted:


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

It's got an external water tank!

That would be so useful sometimes.

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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

richwade80 said:


> It's got an external water tank!
> 
> That would be so useful sometimes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


mine as well, it sits with local water cooperative


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

joey24dirt said:


> It's good but I'd definitely miss making milk
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorted.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> Sorted.


Haha so get one of each 

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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Cooffe said:


> @Hasi do you think this would suit you for new beans at the roastery? Surely an ideal candidate AND they're German so closer to Austria


 could be a good alternative to the Minima, also a space saver!

Hardly ever using service boiler anyway...

Let's see about pricing first, then decide for a lever machine ???


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

It would be wrong if they didn't have one in black wouldn't it:


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)




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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I wandered over to the ECM stand, very interesting little machine and with pressure profiling ability.

















Launching Q2 next year, but hopefully I will get a pre production sample to have a look at in a few weeks. Michael seemed pretty cool about sending one over.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

I do like the look of this, but I would miss the ability to steam milk too. Very good idea though for the espresso only drinkers.


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> I wandered over to the ECM stand, very interesting little machine and with pressure profiling ability.
> 
> View attachment 32961
> 
> ...


 Looks pretty neat. Did he give any indication on the cost in the UK?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Planter said:


> I do like the look of this, but I would miss the ability to steam milk too. Very good idea though for the espresso only drinkers.


I could see it working quite well in a modular setup with a separate milk steamer. It all depends on price & it's capabilities compared to other pressure profiling machines really.


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## Junglebert (Jan 7, 2019)

It looks perfect for those of us who only drink espresso, and knowing ECM the build quality will be exceptional.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> I could see it working quite well in a modular setup with a separate milk steamer. It all depends on price & it's capabilities compared to other pressure profiling machines really.


Yep. Will be interesting to see the performance.

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Cooffe said:


> Looks pretty neat. Did he give any indication on the cost in the UK?


 He did but could be subject to change, it pre production atm


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> He did but could be subject to change, it pre production atm


 And what sort of figure did he throw out mate?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Pablo El Beano said:


> And what sort of figure did he throw out mate?


 Sorry can't actually say....not sure it public info.


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> Sorry can't actually say....not sure it public info.


 Understand. Let me ask a simple yes or no question: if someone in the Uk had £1000 in their pocket, and went in to a respectable espresso equipment retailer this time next year, could they potentially walk out of the door with one these without asking for a discount? ?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Still the same answer to the previous post.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

I could never in a million years buy a machine for £1k that does half a job 

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Jony said:


> Still the same answer to the previous post.


 I agree with @jony, but at least you will get pictures of Puristika with my wonderful tiles. I'll feedback to ECM first then see what I can cover as a mini review with the pre production unit, as there will probably be some changes leading up to launch. As 2nd quarter next year was mooted for availability, I don't know how much I will be able to say. Even BB are not involved at all yet.

I only really noticed it from the forum post as I missed it twice when I visited the stand because it's on the other end behind a wall. So I went back, had a look and asked Michael about it because it looked so interesting.. I also mainly drink espresso and Americanos as do many others....


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I've just seen a facebook from Bella Barista advertising The Crem pressure profiling machines. They look great and come with vibe pump and rotary variants; some interesting features and looks like they've got volumetric info on the display while the shot is running. Seems like the pressure profiling stuff is really taking off, so hopefully this ECM will offer a lower priced option for people that don't care about milk based drinks. Not holding my breath though.


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

I love the small package. I have always wondered how small it's possible to go without sacrificing quality given that some home users make as few as 2 coffees a day.

Pressure profiling and E61 in such a small machine is a breakthrough. But as some others have stated, it would be top of the list for espresso drinkers and a no no for milk based ones. I just wonder if it would be possible to add a steam variant without increasing in size.

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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

M_H_S said:


> >>. I just wonder if it would be possible to add a steam variant without increasing in size.


Think the size will have alot to do with it only having a single boiler. Having said that, it doesn't stop a La Pav having a steam arm so I suppose it should be possible somehow.


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

Jony said:


> Still the same answer to the previous post.


 Wow, you said that without moving your lips Dave. Amazing!


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Pablo El Beano said:


> Wow, you said that without moving your lips Dave. Amazing!
> <img alt="E1AC397B-30B4-47D1-B685-4496DCA6658A.gif.4b105c82a1526796b369f0dca752d458.gif" data-fileid="33014" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2019_10/E1AC397B-30B4-47D1-B685-4496DCA6658A.gif.4b105c82a1526796b369f0dca752d458.gif" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


The man has skills!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Rob1 said:


> I've just seen a facebook from Bella Barista advertising The Crem pressure profiling machines. They look great and come with vibe pump and rotary variants; some interesting features and looks like they've got volumetric info on the display while the shot is running. Seems like the pressure profiling stuff is really taking off, so hopefully this ECM will offer a lower priced option for people that don't care about milk based drinks. Not holding my breath though.


 I have had the Cream One 2B (their top profiling model) on the bench for a while now and doing an engineering review for Cream (direct req). The type where I feed stuff back at pre production. The barista knob is a nice feature, well it has lots of nice features...


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

joey24dirt said:


> Haha so get one of each
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 It certainly looks a great machine. But not really for anyone who make milk drinks. Separate steamer, plus the Puristika and it's water tank on the side and then the grinder make for a lot of kitchen real estate.....unless you have the space and wonga! But still looks the bees knees!


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

@DavecUK did you see whether it is a full e61 group and/or the pump type? I'm gunning after a rotary pump for the mornings so it'd be good to know!


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

joey24dirt said:


> Haha so get one of each
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Or just get a duel boiler!?


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

joey24dirt said:


> I could never in a million years buy a machine for £1k that does half a job
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Yes, agreed. But early days. So why not just get a duel boiler for what's probably the same price?


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

nicholasj said:


> Yes, agreed. But early days. So why not just get a duel boiler for what's probably the same price?


Surely you'd need two duel boilers else what's the point....

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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

The ECM on its own looks fantastic, but with the water tank on the side it just looks tacky


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

Fez said:


> The ECM on its own looks fantastic, but with the water tank on the side it just looks tacky


 Hmm! Yes, not sure why they do this. Adds to the clutter?


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Fez said:


> The ECM on its own looks fantastic, but with the water tank on the side it just looks tacky


The cool retro miniature look couldn't have been achieved otherwise though eh.

The tank could be hidden behind something else perhaps and being portable means the main machine can be tucked in somewhere tight and never has to move or have access to water filling.

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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Wonder if they'll have a plumb in option.


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## ok592 (Nov 25, 2019)

Any news on this?

@DavecUK I read in another thread that you finished and sent your final internal report to ECM at the end of January. Since you mentioned it being internal, I don't expect a review from you anytime soon (?)

Also I get that you can't give away any secrets in public and I know you've been asked some things several times in the forum which you didn't feel comfortable answering so I hope this post doesn't annoy you: Could you maybe write up your current feelings / findings on the Puristika? Any news or developments since you sent that internal report? I try to phrase my questions in a way that I hope you might be able to answer them without giving away too much haha. BTW I'm of course happy for anyone else to chime in on these who might have gotten the chance for a little hands-on time with the Puristika.

Will it be comparable in noise during operation to say the MaraX?

Will it still be announced or even released this year (maybe even in Q2 as stated last year)?

How likely is the tank-setup going to stay similar to what we have seen at Host?

How do you feel about the profiling capabilities of the Puristika as compared to say the Bianca or any ECM with the Flow Profiling Kit installed?

You mentioned in another - older - post that the PID seems to be done in a delightful fashion. Do you still feel that way and do you expect that to carry over to the production model?

I'm happy about anything anyone wants to add but I also totally understand if none of this info can go public by now. In that case sorry for the long post and just consider it as a bump to this thread


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## GengisKhan (May 8, 2017)

I didn't even know this existed, what a cool looking machine.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

https://www.avola-coffeesystems.de/ecm-puristika-espressomaschine-neuheit-von-der-host-2019/8140582


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## beanere2long (May 11, 2018)

I assume BB are aware and maybe thinking about stocking this?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

beanere2long said:


> I assume BB are aware and maybe thinking about stocking this?


 There were 3 made for Host 2019...I've got one, ECM have one and I don't know where the other one is. Covid rather slowed down the introduction of Puristika, which was meant to happen this year. I don't know whether BB will stock or not, presumably they will.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

I love the idea of this machine, hope it works out. I don't like the way those tubes stick out or the thin curved in drip tray (deep square style like the Mechanika and Hieldelberg please) and I know very little about how it performs, but a small, cheaper, well built machine without steam sounds cool.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

CocoLoco said:


> I love the idea of this machine, hope it works out. I don't like the way those tubes stick out or the thin curved in drip tray (deep square style like the Mechanika and Hieldelberg please) and I know very little about how it performs, but a small, cheaper, well built machine without steam sounds cool.


 It is a prototype, the water tank and tubes won't be like that on the production model.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> It is a prototype, the water tank and tubes won't be like that on the production model.


 Oh cool, good to know, thanks.


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## AliG (Aug 12, 2015)

I've become slightly obsessed with the Puristika.

Somebody asked earlier in the thread whether there would be much demand for a machine with no steaming capability. Other than some old levers (the Caravel and Gaggia Mini) I can't think of another machine like this. Have there been in the past?


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## AliG (Aug 12, 2015)

AliG said:


> I've become slightly obsessed with the Puristika.
> 
> Somebody asked earlier in the thread whether there would be much demand for a machine with no steaming capability. Other than some old levers (the Caravel and Gaggia Mini) I can't think of another machine like this. Have there been in the past?


 ah, ignore me. there's already a thread on this.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/57620-is-there-an-espresso-machine-without-a-wand/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=812884&embedComment=812884&embedDo=findComment#comment-812884


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

AliG said:


> I've become slightly obsessed with the Puristika.
> 
> Somebody asked earlier in the thread whether there would be much demand for a machine with no steaming capability. Other than some old levers (the Caravel and Gaggia Mini) I can't think of another machine like this. Have there been in the past?


 It is just about the espresso....not about the Milk. It's small and cute and to me would pair equally nicely with with a hand grinder, or a high end grinder. I don't have it powered up at the moment as I have some other projects on, but aim to get it back up and running again soon. I like to change it up a bit now and then with the machines I'm using.

ATM having to do a little work on MaraX with some new firmware and hopefully the V-Vostok 1 group lever arriving imminently will give me some other work to do...so that will delay Puristika coming back on the bench.

If some people want milk occasionally at the moment there is that DeLonghi steamer machine thing as a cupboard option that can be bought out when needed.


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## AliG (Aug 12, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> It is just about the espresso....not about the Milk. It's small and cute and to me would pair equally nicely with with a hand grinder, or a high end grinder. I don't have it powered up at the moment as I have some other projects on, but aim to get it back up and running again soon. I like to change it up a bit now and then with the machines I'm using.
> 
> ATM having to do a little work on MaraX with some new firmware and hopefully the V-Vostok 1 group lever arriving imminently will give me some other work to do...so that will delay Puristika coming back on the bench.
> 
> If some people want milk occasionally at the moment there is that DeLonghi steamer machine thing as a cupboard option that can be bought out when needed.


 Interesting. If it does what it does as well as I hope, then it's exactly what I want. I'm conscious that most people expect to be able to make milk drinks, but maybe as the standalone steamers get better (which they appear to be) this kind of thing might catch on.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

@AliG

ECM 'will not launch the machine before the end of second quarter of this year' apparently. But they neglected to say when they might.


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

Is there any more of an update on this machine?

Anyone seen any rumours or heard/ asked ECM direct recently?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I've heard nothing. It's a beautiful little machine, like a little jewel and I think would do really well. I have one of the 3 prototypes and it's a very nice thing for the espresso purist. No steam wand of course, so the purchase of a Dualit Cino or similar might be a handy accessory..


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> I've heard nothing. It's a beautiful little machine, like a little jewel and I think would do really well. I have one of the 3 prototypes and it's a very nice thing for the espresso purist. No steam wand of course, so the purchase of a Dualit Cino or similar might be a handy accessory..


 This is exactly what I'm thinking.

If I only need to steam milk at weekends/ when friends are over, then am I better with something like this and a Cino (or similar) OR a dual boiler that I simply keep the stream boiler switched off on for the majority of the time. Having water sitting in a boiler for that time doesn't seem to be a good thing from what I've read.

Also, depending on the price of the Puristica, it could be a cheaper combination than a dual boiler.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@PortafilterProcrastinator I think the puristika is aimed at a target market that might be quite specific, and I think it's potentially larger than people realise.

*I see the target market as people:*



who are space limited but like quality


drink mainly espresso and americano


don't want to use an espresso machine as a kettle


want control over temperature and shot pressure


concerned over plastic in water tanks


Would be happy to have an accessory in a cupboard, bought out when milk drinks are needed


I am not sure about the price and whether it's cheaper to have the combo rather than a dual boiler...you would have to wait and see I guess. I imagine the availability of part, which is affecting the whole industry, is delaying lots of new machines right now.



> OR a dual boiler that I simply keep the stream boiler switched off on for the majority of the time. Having water sitting in a boiler for that time doesn't seem to be a good thing from what I've read.


 it's really not a problem if you are not using the espresso machine as a kettle....it gets to 125C plus, everything is sterile and it's the steam, which boils off from the water, so it will be perfectly clean. Assuming a stainless boiler...no worries.


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

Thanks @DavecUK this is fantastically helpful.

I have time, so will see what happens through to the end of the year. Your comment on shot pressure is an interesting one.

Your comments on the steam boiler are very helpful and reassuring.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PortafilterProcrastinator said:


> Thanks @DavecUK this is fantastically helpful.
> 
> I have time, so will see what happens through to the end of the year. Your comment on shot pressure is an interesting one.
> 
> Your comments on the steam boiler are very helpful and reassuring.


 I would like to see Michael release the Puristika soon....I think there is a lot of creative potential for users when pulling the shot....especially if they buy and add the ECM flow controller to it.

I've already said too much.


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## ikiddo (Mar 7, 2019)

On kaffee-netz, Michael linked to an ECM facebook post that announced its official launch \o/

"Available soon at selected dealers"


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ikiddo said:


> On kaffee-netz, Michael linked to an ECM facebook post that announced its official launch \o/
> 
> "Available soon at selected dealers"


 do you have the facebook link?

I found the link https://www.facebook.com/ECMespresso/


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## AliG (Aug 12, 2015)

Looks like they added a little video


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/48307-new-ecm-machine-puristika/?do=embed&comment=800469&embedComment=800469&embedDo=findComment

Mines a prototype, the water tank will be different, and fit and finish of the case much improved. It's a little gem though!


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

I was at Bella Barista on Friday. Apparently won't be out until next year now.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Kyle T said:


> I was at Bella Barista on Friday. Apparently won't be out until next year now.


 I suppose it's a bit close to Christmas to try and launch it.


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

Looks great. The externally adjustable expansion valve is interesting - what is this adjusting? Is it the OPV?

Would this be 'true' pressure profiling?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@PortafilterProcrastinator it can profile but I gave ECM some feedback, so unsure how it will eventually be implemented. Yes it changes the tension in the expansion valve, which has some advantages.


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

The outboard/ separate water tank is irritating me a surprising amount.

The machine itself is very tempting, but that might rule it out.

Still interested to see where the price ends up.


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## mr latte (Mar 8, 2016)

My 1st Post...A few links below...Have been patiently waiting for the new ECM Puristika machine 

Bella Barista - https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/ecm-puristika.html

1. Youtube -






Cheers Barry


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

And me, I can see many little improvements from the prototype....

One thing I should say...the externally adjustable expansion valve is a very nice feature to have and works very differently to a valve to reduce pressure, say at the end of a shot. it's a true pressure reduction that is self maintaining, regardless of changing puck density. It's why I liked the idea of it so much.


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## mr latte (Mar 8, 2016)

ECM Puristika - Bella Barista price £999

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/ecm-puristika.html

Can be Pre-ordered - Arriving November


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## AliG (Aug 12, 2015)

Is this going to be getting the full review treatment @DavecUK?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

AliG said:


> Is this going to be getting the full review treatment @DavecUK?


 I gave Michael my feedback, but as I have a prototype model, no, it wouldn't be fair. Finishing and some aspects of the production model are different. For the purist, it's a very nice little machine though with good quality internals, as you would expect. I may dust of the hand grinder and show some usage stuff as a super compact system.

I have of course modded mine and depending on what the production machine looks like, may have some mod suggestions!


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## AliG (Aug 12, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> I may dust of the hand grinder and show some usage stuff as a super compact system.
> 
> I have of course modded mine and depending on what the production machine looks like, may have some mod suggestions!


 Either would be much appreciated.

I may go for this machine if I'm feeling flush in the coming months.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I have a question, and no disrespect to this machine what so ever. But... Unless you are a total purist and only drink black coffee, I understand why you'd go for this machine. But, if you are not, wouldn't a Bezzera Unica or an ECM Classika be a better option? Granted you can't adjust the pressure as easily, but I'm not sure the design of the Puristika is intended for pressure profiling, anyway, and the others offer the advantage of steaming milk if you want to (I'm thinking guests). Add a flow control and that's job done, best of both worlds, compact and neat setup kinda thing?


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## AliG (Aug 12, 2015)

For me it's the small footprint and hopefully straightforward nature of the thing. I'm probably mistaken, but I equate having no steaming capacity to being easier to maintain and having fewer things to go wrong. I have a La Pavoni Pro if I want to steam milk and just want a solid pump machine when I want something more consistent.

I realise this is probably not the typical use case.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@AliG I think you have the rationale correct.



easy to maintain


small footprint


does the job if you're not into milk


a dedicated milk steamer could also be purchased and kept in the cupboard, for when you might need one.


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

@DavecUK Or get something as equally visually striking and leave it out...

https://international.lamarzocco.com/en/meet-wally-milk-a-simple-way-to-steam-perfect-milk-with-no-training-no-waste/

(I can't seem to insert an image from URL at the moment...)

Best looking steamer I've seen on the market. Might break the bank.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@PortafilterProcrastinator I think the name on the product might be an insider joke...


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## Arabidopsis (Mar 28, 2020)

I was saving up for a Bezzera Unica as I was looking for a high end single boiler as I only drink espresso and americanos, but now seeing this machine it seems maybe I need to reconsider my options. It is slightly more expensive than the Unica, and no steam wand..... but the design is much more appealing and it would fit a lot better in my tiny kitchen!

I was just wondering, what would be the purpose for that boiler pressure dial? Wouldn't you just kind of set it at 9 bar and forget about it? I know quite a few espresso machines come with a factory setting of 11-12 bar and many people change it to 9 bar, so not sure if its any useful to be able to change it from 8.5-12 (as seen in user manual).


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Arabidopsis I'll try to remember to answer this tomorrow when I'm on the keyboard.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Arabidopsis said:


> set it at 9 bar and forget about it? I know quite a few espresso machines come with a factory setting of 11-12 bar and many people change it to 9 bar, so not sure if its any useful to be able to change it from 8.5-12 (as seen in user manual).


 The idea of this machine is that it's very simple to make changes to pressure. Some people like 6 bar shots, as an example. So you could try 9 bar, 6 bar, 7.35 bar or whatever you please, and change that very easily at your hearts content.

without the pressure gauge, you can't tell what the pressure is when it's brewing, right?


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## ting_tang (Jul 26, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> without the pressure gauge, you can't tell what the pressure is when it's brewing, right?


 I read somewhere, that you should not use it for the pressure profiling. Even manual says, try to not use it too often. Sealant will wear off etc..

p.s. found the link


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ting_tang said:


> I read somewhere, that you should not use it for the pressure profiling. Even manual says, try to not use it too often. Sealant will wear off etc..
> 
> p.s. found the link


 Manual link here for convenience: https://www.ecm.de/fileadmin/manual/BA_ECM_Puristika_09-2021.pdf

The statements made on page 23 (printed), 24 (PDF), raised by @ting_tang , quite frankly, puts me right off the whole thing!

to quote the manual:



> You can individually adjust and change the brewing pressure by turning the expansion valve, choosing a value between approx. 8.5 and 12 bar





> Only adjust the brewing pressure with the blind filter.
> • Caution, the handle can be hot with time!
> • Frequent adjustment of the brewing pressure has a negative effect on the coffee and leads to faster wear of the O-ring, the expansion valve.










Above: Extract from ECM Puristika manual. Copyright ECM.


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> The statements made on page 23 (printed), 24 (PDF), raised by @ting_tang , quite frankly, puts me right off the whole thing!


 I completely agree. This seems like a massive missed opportunity and makes it just a 'bit more convenient' rather than something that's going to really benefit 'espresso purists'.

I'd also say this video is potentially misleading:






The sequence in the video is raising the arm and then adjusting the pressure.

Granted, you have to raise the arm even with a blind PF in to then adjust the pressure, but I can see how it could easily be seen as adjustable during a shot.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Check out this video on how to adjust the video on the ECM Classika.






Personally, I don't see that much difference in doing that instead, given the guidance issued in the user's manual of the Puristika.

Yes, the Puristika is a nice little cute machine, but that knob might as well just not exist (and be replaced by something like what's there on the Classika already), and a flow control device fitted as standard instead. IMHO.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Right I'm on a keyboard now.

I got the Puristika prototype back in Jan 2020...Michael wanted some feedback on the unit, which I gave. There was no review, because that wasn't what they wanted and Covid affected production to the extent that I couldn't even do a short piece on the machine. It's a great little machine!

Regarding the pressure knob, we had quite a discussion about it and the thread pitch, plus maintenance and my concern was regarding overuse of the knob, without adequate regular lubrication. I also felt that the knob had a better use working together with ECMs own flow control kit. As with flow control you are partly *at the vagaries of the maximum pressure set and at even very slow flows against a tight puck will give a pressure of 10 bar, if that's what the machine is set to. *Especially if you wanted a LSM Lever peak, dropping to 6 or 7 bar. This problem exists with all machines using a flow profiling valve.

The puristica allows you to set a max pressure then do a flow control shot (if you have the flow system fitted), or on the fly dynamically reduce that high pressure peak when using flow control when you don't need it e.g. dropping from 10 bar to 8 bar in an instant.



You can also do a shot at any pressure you want, 8 bar 9 bar 10 bar etc..


you can do a flow control shot and stop that inexorable rise that sometimes happens unless you reduce flow to zero


You can dip the pressure (or raise it) at the end of the shot


The problem is expansion valves are sensitive and the range of adjustment somewhat limited, so it takes a lot of rotating, even though the thread pitch I believe was tweaked (it's a while ago now). The *huge* advantage is that pressure regulated by the expansion valve is essentially self regulating. If you set a flow control valve with a minimal flow and the puck isn't passing much water, it will rise and rise and rise, causing you to pretty much close it off. With the expansion valve set a pressure and that's what you will always get, even if the machine chokes....where you can then relax it more if you want.

I think it's brilliant for "light" profiling and on the fly pressure setting...coupled with their flow control valve....gives a total solution. I actually have an ECM flow control valve which I intend to fit to Puristika

I also have a mod, of course not approved by ECM, which addresses many of the issues ECM are concerned about...but it's not one they could/would ever recommend you do....when I get time. I'll do a video on the modification. Essentially though it allows you to lubricate and maintain the valve in about 10 seconds!!


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## Arabidopsis (Mar 28, 2020)

Thanks for the reply everyone and especially @DavecUK to share your experience with the prototype!

If I understand correctly, what you suggest is to use that pressure know during the shot to control the pressure and for example simulate a lever where you drop the pressure at the end of the shot. This would be directly against the advice of ECM, saying you should only use it with a blind portafilter to set the pressure as otherwise you would damage the expansion valve. This problem can be avoided by lubricating the valve plenty and regularly? If it does break, how easy would it be to fix it?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Arabidopsis said:


> Thanks for the reply everyone and especially @DavecUK to share your experience with the prototype!
> 
> If I understand correctly, what you suggest is to use that pressure know during the shot to control the pressure and for example simulate a lever where you drop the pressure at the end of the shot. This would be directly against the advice of ECM, saying you should only use it with a blind portafilter to set the pressure as otherwise you would damage the expansion valve. This problem can be avoided by lubricating the valve plenty and regularly? If it does break, how easy would it be to fix it?


 Not quite what I am trying to say. you would use it sparingly and only if you could lubricate it regularly. Fixing it isn't difficult at all, just a couple of o rings. My main way of use would be to set the max pressure then use a flow control paddle kit. hen I get time, I will make a video of what I did to the one I have.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

If you need to use it sparingly, why did they bother with the knob? That's the bit I struggle to understand. Surely a similar adjustment screw like the Classika would've been equally sufficient?


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## Arabidopsis (Mar 28, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> Not quite what I am trying to say. you would use it sparingly and only if you could lubricate it regularly. Fixing it isn't difficult at all, just a couple of o rings. My main way of use would be to set the max pressure then use a flow control paddle kit. hen I get time, I will make a video of what I did to the one I have.


 'The puristica allows you to set a max pressure then do a flow control shot (if you have the flow system fitted), or *on the fly dynamically reduce that high pressure peak* when using flow control when you don't need it e.g. dropping from 10 bar to 8 bar in an instant.'

I think maybe I do not really understand how the flow control kit works and how it affects pressure. So the problem is when you reduce/increase the flow, generally the pressure would build up towards the end to for example 10bar and no way to reduce this. While with the Puristika, you could set the pressure at 8bar and it would never go above no matter what happens to the flow rate? Or how would you drop from 10 bar to 8 bar? Im quite confused at this stage!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Even If you did that using the knob, then it contradicts the advice on the manual to not adjust that frequent and only do so against a blind filter.

the point I'm trying to make here is not what one can or can't do with the regulating knob, but with regards to the design of the machine and the advice given by ECM on how to use it. It simply doesn't make any sense. 😊


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## benjus (Nov 4, 2019)

I have one of these on pre-order but I'm in two minds on whether to cancel or not. I've been interested in this since DavecUK mentioned it back in 2019. My main motivation is that I've been interested in getting an E61 based machine for a while but as far as I can tell there's always a trade off when you design a single machine to do both espresso and milk steaming, whether it's quality or price. I never drink milky coffee so I didn't want to pay that trade-off, hence my interest in this machine. My wife sometimes takes a dash of warm milk that I can prepare in the microwave, and I have a £20 Lidl milk heater/frother that I can try if a guest wants a milky coffee, but I'm not going to put myself out much for that eventuality.

I'm currently running with a Gaggia Baby which cost me £99 about 9 years ago (Amazon promotion). It's an astonishing machine for the price (I particularly love the full commercial size portafilter), but I'm also quite keen to take my espresso game up a level or two.

Generally I like what I've read about the Puristika although this talk about the limitations of the expansion valve puts me off a little.

Any advice?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@benjus - if you like the format of the machine, the external tank, and the ability to adjust the pressure extremely easily, then might be what you are looking for. It's important to note the expansion valve adjustment should not be used for pressure profiling or on a frequent basis - and I think that's the most important point which in a way, in my opinion, defeats the point of the knob.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@benjus It's a real nice little machine and well made...I modded mine, so I can twiddle the expansion valve a lot without too many worries....if the basic design in that area is the same...then as long as you are happy to replace O rings occasionally (which are pennies to buy)...then you can use the knob to control pressure. Although this control would be in a more limited range simply because of the limitations of an expansion valve and whether they made the thread coarser to reduce the turns required.

I think it definitely worth fitting the paddle and full flow control to the machine....then it realises more potential than standard machines with a flow valve.


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## mr latte (Mar 8, 2016)

My ECM Puristika machine arrived this morning from Bella Barista - They kindly through in a bag of their "Milk Buster" espresso blend ????

Well packed from BB via FEDEX - Large delivery box = 45lbs/20.4Kg...............Smaller inner box 37.5lbs/17.1Kg

Middle pic shows all what is included from BB, only slight annoyance was 2 pin EU plug as opposed to UK 3 pin, other than that it's a great little machine with typical excellent ECM build quality...I will add the ECM flow control paddle as David mentions above, as I also think that's the best way to profile shots.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@mr latte Out of curiosity, is there 1 or 2 storage holes for filter baskets under the drip tray, looks like just the one?


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## mr latte (Mar 8, 2016)

Hi Dave...Just the one hole....Cheers Barry


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## ECMP (Dec 30, 2021)

Hello ! A new owner of the Puristika! In principle everything is fine (waiting to see without there are no problems of heating the group as other owners of the forum have) except one but ... The minimum pressure that allows me to regulate the machine is 10 bars (with the rotating wheel fully on the left). Can someone tell me if the pressure switch can be adjusted internally to 9 bars?

Thank you very much to everyone for your opinions. If anyone has any questions about the machine, I will be happy to solve it.


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