# Newbie looking for recommendations



## espresso_a_day (Aug 18, 2010)

I'm just getting started with my Gaggia Classic. I'm looking for recommendations or pointers for beans. I know it's very hard as it's a matter of taste. I can offer the following information, some or all of which may be totally useless:

Beans or espresso that I like:


 Generally, Italian style espresso. I got hooked on espresso in Rome, and have liked all the espresso I've had there very much (though there was some variation). It seems in the UK and US, Italian espresso had a rep for being mediocre. I don't share this view so I may not share the taste for typical roasts available from UK roasters?

 Espresso at "Best Italian" on Borough Market (currently closed over the summer). Judging from the packages on their shelves they seem to use "Miscela d'Oro" (again, if they do and it comes from Italy in big packs those who think that freshness is imperative may frown). Unfortunately, online I can only find that in sets of 6x1kg packs.

 I've got some "Classic Italian Coffee" from Happy Donkey. It's not bad, but has a bit of a "burnt" flavour which I think I actually like in principle, but it is too strong.

 From my cursory reading around online, it seems I'm looking for something with at least some Robusta. Correct, or wrong?


Beans/ coffee that I DON'T like:


 I've got the 2010 espresso blend from HasBean (not the premium). It is very fresh, maybe too fresh (roasted two days ago!). I hate it. Sorry, I'm sure it's good coffee and a matter of taste. It has a very pronounced taste component that I find hard to describe, maybe acidic or sour or bitter. It is so pronounced that I think it is probably intentional. I don't like this taste component at all, and I think it is the same taste component in the following two:

 Monmouth Coffee's espresso. Had it twice and didn't like it -- although if I recall correctly both times it also had very little crema if any, so I may have been unlucky. But again, I think it has the same taste component.

 Illy coffee: it's consistently turned out that I don't like espresso where there's an Illy sign out front. I guess this is not very meaningful, since Illy is so widespread among shops that you sometimes drop in while eg shopping and in need for an espresso, so the finding is bound to be confounded with lots of bad barista skills. But I never like it, even if the espresso seems decently made, and again, I think it has the similar taste component. Maybe it is "fruity"?


Can anyone give me pointers what to look for, in terms of


 blends to seek out/ avoid (Arabica/ Robusta)

 flavour descriptions to seek out/ avoid (I have a hard time interpreting what they mean)

 specific recommendations or recommendations to stay away from specific blends as they are too similar to my second set above?

 Possibly a tip to get my hands on smaller quantities of original Italian blends, even if that means they are not super fresh? Even individual 1-kg bags would be fine.


It goes without saying that all of the above is a highly personal matter of taste and I'm not trying to criticize and blend or coffee shop.

I'm just hoping to get some pointers so that I won't have to waste a fortune going through lots of blends that are way off. I was especially thrown by the experience with the HasBean blend -- I dislike it very strongly and that seems to indicate my taste may differ greatly to what is generally appreciated among UK specialty roasters, so I'd have only a small chance finding something that I like there.

Thanks!


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## HLA91 (Jul 16, 2010)

I just looked at HB Espresso Blend and in the cup it has



> Nicaraguan Limoncillo for acidity (25%), In the cup this one has a rich base, followed by sweetness and *fruit acidity*, with a lovely sweet finish.


 which is most likely the


> maybe acidic or sour or bitter


 flavor you are getting.

I personally enjoy acidity in my coffee (filter or press I don't currently drink espresso) but judging by your response that is probably something you are not a fan of but I have read somewhere about letting the beans settle for a few days after roasting but I don't know much about that but someone else here will know.

As for the rest of your post, the more experienced members will be able to help you there.

HLA91


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Must say, I'm curious that you didn't like coffee from monmouth as they are pretty much one of the top roasters/coffee shops in the UK.

I'm still not sure what you mean by "italian" coffee. There is such a thing as a vianesse roast, which is typically very dark, but it's not really anything to go by as different coffees require a different roast.

Typically, hasbeans blends are ok, but I much prefer their single origins. I really wouldn't discount all of hasbeans coffee based upon one blend if I was in your position.

I can recommend some of hasbeans single origins, but I'm not sure whether they'd suit you. It's mainly personal preference with coffee and I think generally if you can't tell what you're after from the flavour descriptions, maybe you're best off just trying some randomly?

For examples I'd recommend:

Lighter, fruitier origin coffees:

Colombia narino consaca

Costa rica fincha de licho

Kenya mtaro aa (Steve doesn't recommend this for espresso, but I think it's got a wonderful fruitiness in the cup and when it's hugely overextracted you get an almost fruity syrupy coffee which is gorgeous)

Heavier, gloopier, richer coffees:

Toba sulawesi blend

Monsoon Malabar

Other than this I'd be curious to know what grinder you're using? Grinder > Espresso Machine.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Also, typically I find the beans get more acidic the longer after roasting if they had any acidity to offer in the first place (aside from the co2 crema you can get within the first few days after roasting).


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Oh and the volume of crema is completely and utterly irrelevant on decent coffees. Typically you'd lose a lot a day or so after roasting anyways.


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## HLA91 (Jul 16, 2010)

@RisingPower - There is an edit button 

Also I can second the Kenya Mtaro, superb.


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## espresso_a_day (Aug 18, 2010)

Thanks HLA91 -- duh, could have thought about looking this up, too.

indeed, "fruit acidity" and "acidity" could well be what I mean, and it wouldn't be suprising because to quote more from their description



> Nicaraguan Limoncillo for acidity (25%), and Brazil Fazenda Inglaterra Natural (40%) for a fruity acidity.


so that could be very dominant.


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## espresso_a_day (Aug 18, 2010)

RisingPower-- grinder is Iberital MC2.

By "Italian" I mean simply the espresso I had in Italy. I don't know how you'd describe the qualities of the roasts they seem to commonly use.

Thanks for the bean tips as well. I'm a bit wary of "fruity" as well, so might start with your recommendations for dark.


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## espresso_a_day (Aug 18, 2010)

Also -- doesn't have to be online. I'm in London. Any recommendations for shops which sell beans, possibly even a more general food specialty shop that might sell Italian (packaged) beans?


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Mmm but it doesn't work, just hangs for me.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

espresso_a_day said:


> RisingPower-- grinder is Iberital MC2.
> 
> By "Italian" I mean simply the espresso I had in Italy. I don't know how you'd describe the qualities of the roasts they seem to commonly use.
> 
> Thanks for the bean tips as well. I'm a bit wary of "fruity" as well, so might start with your recommendations for dark.


Still, that doesn't mean much to me I'm afraid. However, if you don't like fruity, the indonesian/monsooned malabar/toba sulawesi blends/single origins are probably your best bet as they're more sort of, tobaccoey, smokey, leathery, almondy, richer tastes.

To me, if it's anything like the espresso you get from italian restaurants here, it's illy coffee which has been left to get as stale as physically possible with a thin, burnt taste. That's not espresso. It's water with hint of burnt coffee.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

WRT shops in london, it would be square mile http://shop.squaremilecoffee.com/, londinium http://londiniumespresso.com/, monmouth. You're spoilt for choice with excellent coffee shops.


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## HLA91 (Jul 16, 2010)

Click edit then click "go advanced", the simple edit is still buggy but using advanced edit it works fine


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Italian coffee typically has a % of Robusta (5-15%) which adds punch (often described as bitterness) and is usually quite darkly roasted too.

Try an Indonesian single origin (Sumatra, Java, Papua New Guinea) which have very earthy flavours, sometimes bananas and even mushroom/forest floor traits.

What brewing methods are you typically using? Machine and dose weights?


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## espresso_a_day (Aug 18, 2010)

Thanks Glenn. This is for making espresso (occasional macchiato or cappuccino) in a Gaggia Classic.


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## awlred (Mar 10, 2009)

I would reccomend the Toba Sulawesi from HasBean. My Dad has a strong preference for italian style espresso and says that Toba is perfect. Although everyone's palette is the same.

If you're drinking HBs espresso blend at 2days past roast then it will not be its best. At about 5-7 days it's at its peak. Nutty Chocolatey greatness follows


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## espresso_a_day (Aug 18, 2010)

Just ordered Toba Sulawesi and Monsoon Malabar from HB. Thanks for the tips everyone!


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

espresso_a_day -----------> Not to knock HasBean at all (their service is impeccable) I also had similar experiences with the first two orders I placed with them where I found a very strong acidic taste when brewing espresso. But everyone is entitled to his own taste...

If you are looking for "Italian style", then try Algerian Coffee Stores in Soho, http://www.algcoffee.co.uk/scripts/default.asp. The owner has Italian ties and I have tried their coffee. Very oily heavy roasts, probably quite a bit of Robusta in their blends. Was positively awful in my opinion, but they have a lot of fans, so obvioulsy there are others like you out there who like their coffee that way.

They don't roast their own coffee, but have it done by one of the larger roasters out there. Fresh deliveries twice a week.


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## espresso_a_day (Aug 18, 2010)

Thanks Osh -- Algerian Coffee Stores really sounds interesting. Had a look around their website and will definitely drop by their shop.


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## jud1255 (Jan 19, 2011)

espresso_a_day said:


> Thanks Osh -- Algerian Coffee Stores really sounds interesting. Had a look around their website and will definitely drop by their shop.


hiya just read this thread and wondered how you got on ?, as im a newbie looking for info on beans and where to buy, im in barnsley s, yorkshire.

thanks jud


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## Mr8ean (May 8, 2011)

I was chatting to a guy the other day that had 10+ years experience as a roaster and more generally in the coffee industry. Anyway he said that it could takes sometimes 10 days before a roasted bean is perfect for drinking as certain oils etc need time before they are released (something like that).

Therefore you two day old beans might be too fresh.


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## profspudhed (Mar 18, 2011)

I think we have a thread on just that subject called degassing days or similar

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## Edwin (Feb 20, 2011)

I can highly recommend the Algerian Coffee Stores blends.

I'd tried a few blends from three recommended mail order suppliers, trying to focus on the ones described as nutty/chocolatey, but got fed up with the unrelenting sourness I was getting.

The Algerian blends are of far lower acidity (the Classic tasted frankly awful in a cafetiere with no "bite" at all) but have given me just what I'm looking for in espresso - rich, dark chocolate and tobacco/ashtray flavours that I crave. What a relief! My brother and a coffee-loving friend have just the same taste in espresso too, so it's unlikely that my apparently old fashioned tastes are that unusual.


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## espresso_a_day (Aug 18, 2010)

Indeed, time for a followup from me I guess!

I've become a fan of the Monsoon Malabar (either from Hasbean or James Gourmet Coffee). Tried about three different roasts from Algerian and wasn't a great fan. A bit too much at the dark/ oily end of the spectrum for me.

Otherwise, I have really got the bug and am trying out different roasts. Haven't taken detailed notes and haven't detected a clear pattern yet. Hasbean breakfast bomb is also very nice.

The flavour described as fruitiness or acidity is starting to grow on me -- I think it adds an interesting note. I still find it overwhelming in many roasts, even if they are described as more chocolatey, but who knows maybe that will change, too. I now find most roasts boring that lack it completely.

I do think that there's an entirely different ideal version of espresso in UK and USA vs Italy. For example, I still don't really enjoy the espresso served by Monmouth (also, I find their espresso cups are way too big for single espresso, so the coffee cools down v quickly). But I do enjoy their flat whites -- so I'm wondering whether to some extent it just goes with most people buying milk based drinks at cafes here (vs eg Rome, where most drinks are served as espresso) and different roasts going well with/ without milk. OTOH, there seems to be a true appreciation of a very fruity taste in UK/USA. I once had an espresso made with Square Mile coffee made by a vendor in London who was clearly enthusiastic about what he was doing. The coffee to me tasted like a very acidic fruit juice, not espresso. But clearly Square Mile has many fans.

p.s. edited error above: Monsooned Malabar was actually from James' Gourmet Coffee


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

It seems sacrilige to say it here, but I've never had a HasBean blend I've really enjoyed.

Just drunk a Blake Mk.2 double espresso and the best I can say is 'interesting'. Sort of sour and muddy with a bit of old Christmas cake. It's certainly a complex taste (there is still an intriguing aftertaste in my mouth). I just wish it tasted more of coffee. It's supposed to be 'old school' but not maybe not old enough for me.

I too prefer classic Italian style espresso, and actually prefer cheap and cheerful Happy Donkey beans to anything I've had from HasBean. I wish this wasn't the case, as HasBean is a such well run and enthusastic company and I want to love them. Maybe they just roast too light for my tastes.

On the other hand, I'm a real fan of Square Mile, particularly their Winter Espresso. Does that sound like a contradiction? Their beans fulfill all the expectations I have of HasBean which HasBean never fulfill.


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## profspudhed (Mar 18, 2011)

See I quite enjoyed the jailbreak mk2 I've had more than a few bags of it, but I must say I'm looking forward to opening the bag of mk3 I have in the fridge (have to finish the ogawa first, which is also a lovely brew and even then its a tough desicion between that and the machacamarca) but the mk3 is based mostly on the finca loayza, which has been my favorite coffee to date I think.

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## RolandG (Jul 25, 2010)

espresso_a_day said:


> I do think that there's an entirely different ideal version of espresso in UK and USA vs Italy. For example, I still don't really enjoy the espresso served by Monmouth (also, I find their espresso cups are way too big for single espresso, so the coffee cools down v quickly). But I do enjoy their flat whites -- so I'm wondering whether to some extent it just goes with most people buying milk based drinks at cafes here (vs eg Rome, where most drinks are served as espresso) and different roasts going well with/ without milk. OTOH, there seems to be a true appreciation of a very fruity taste in UK/USA.


It's worth noting there is a variation across Italy in their espresso (so I understand) from the North to the South. That said, UK & US trends in espresso are quite different to the Italian style/s. Personally, I sometimes enjoy an acidic/fruity espresso - but getting them tasting good is tough. The acidity can easily be overwhelming, so I generally find a lower dose, finer grind and tight pull works well for me. But it's always a matter of what tastes good to you


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi espresso_a_day! I am a small batch roaster and offer Brazilian or Costa Rican beans in 250g or 1kg bags and our new fairtrade coffee in 500g bags - Celtic Blend - a mix of a few different South American beans and a little African robusta.

http://www.thecoffeebean-vanandroaster.co.uk/Fresh-Coffee.html

Andy


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## shreder (Jul 24, 2011)

hi

try caffe gino ltd from london. its online shop with Italian coffee.


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