# Cherub (mark ii) hissing and losing water



## dariksta (Jan 15, 2020)

Hi all.

My 6 year old cherub has started hissing constantly and a lot of heat and vapour disappears through the back vent. this therefore loses water fairly quickly.

I guess it's probably ready for a service - although I replaced the O rings in the steam valve last year. Or has anyone got any ideas if it's an easy fix. Sue at Fracino is pretty good at sending parts when I've asked for them.

Also - anyone knows of someone who can service/repair it in the Sheffield, Nottingham, Leicester areas? I'd rather not have to go to Birmingham if I don't have to.

Thanks so much


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

Sounds like a boiler issue. Is there any issues with pressure/temperature retention? Is there any way you can pop the top off and have a look at it when it's up to temp.?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Quite probably the vacuum valve on top of the boiler or possibly safety valve. Remove top and take a look. Either valve a n easy unscrew and replace job.

Are you in a hard water area ? could be scale on the valve (s) Short stubby valve with a pin in centre is anti-vac valve . Tall one is Safety valve.


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

El carajillo said:


> Quite probably the vacuum valve on top of the boiler or possibly safety valve. Remove top and take a look. Either valve a n easy unscrew and replace job.
> 
> Are you in a hard water area ? could be scale on the valve (s) Short stubby valve with a pin in centre is anti-vac valve . Tall one is Safety valve.


 Yeah I had a similar issue on my minima but not with a valve, was the elbow for hot water to the group. Just needed to be unscrewed, cleaned up and PTFEd then re-fitted. 15 min job all in all from start to finish.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Removing the top and eyballing is usually the gold standard of fault diagnosis.


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## dariksta (Jan 15, 2020)

Thanks all - that's this evenings project then . My wife is already complaining about her lack of decent coffee...

Fairly soft water here so no real lime scale issues.


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## gwapenut (Nov 5, 2011)

If it is one of the valves on the top of the boiler, before replacing, it's worth just tapping them first to see if reseating / moving them helps solve the issue.


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## dariksta (Jan 15, 2020)

This seems to be the culprit. Which is the safety valve I believe? I appears to leak 'sideways' through the thin grey funnel rather than around the seat of the valve.
What's the best access to remove it? Do I need to remove the water tank cabinet and/or the pressure switch?

Thanks against much for all your help. Already loving this group! ❤


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## dariksta (Jan 15, 2020)

Managed to get access. I could only remove the actual valve itself. The seat that is screwed on to the boiler doesn't budge at all. Is the valve all I need to replace - or the seat too? There's a 'stop' on the thread - which looks to just stop the valve in a position where the tamper seal can be fitted. Is this right? Yes - it turns out it wasn't a spout - it was a tamper seal . Given the tamper seal is there - will Fracino be happy to send me a replacement valve to fit myself? Or does this indicate that amateurs like me should stay away ?


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## dariksta (Jan 15, 2020)

Right. Red herring. After getting easier access it actually is the short anti-vac valve. By motioning it with a screwdriver - the leak is now much less. But still there. So I guess it needs replacing. Problem is - it just won't budge. I've got a fairly long spanner and I'm fairly strong. Nothing gives. Any ideas?

sorry for spamming this thread - but I'm slowly getting more confident with the insides of my coffee machine...


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

DON'T try and get it off with lots of torque, you will just twist up the boiler.

Get a well fitting spanner on it and give the end of the spanner sharp quick raps with a heavier object (very small hammer), the idea is to shock it loose with very large amounts or torque for very short periods of time so it doesn't damage the boiler. If you actually have an air or electric powered impact wrench , that would be the best tool to use (as long as you're careful).

If they are very reluctant even with an impact gun, sometimes removing the boiler and holding in your hand is safer, as the impact works, but your hand allows the boiler to move, removing most of the risk of distortion.

Clean up the threads well and reseal with PTFE tape (6 or 7 turns).


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> DON'T try and get it off with lots of torque, you will just twist up the boiler.
> 
> Get a well fitting spanner on it and give the end of the spanner sharp quick raps with a heavier object (very small hammer), the idea is to shock it loose with very large amounts or torque for very short periods of time so it doesn't damage the boiler. If you actually have an air or electric powered impact wrench , that would be the best tool to use (as long as you're careful).
> 
> ...


 I second this. One thing I had to do was lightly pre-tension the spanner before hitting with a hammer and it came loose in 2/3 knocks.

My machine was less than a year old though. Also make sure the PTFE goes on the right way (opposite the thread) or you end up bunching up the PTFE and it's no use.


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## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

Also - fit a new safety valve seeing its been apart. Cheap enough.


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## dariksta (Jan 15, 2020)

RESULT!!

Tried the hammer trick - but the bounce of the boiler clearly absorbed any impact before it hit the thread. Managed to wedge a spanner between the boiler and the housing pretty tight to lock it in place - and 3 taps later it was loose!

Taking the valve apart I saw a small rubber o-ring which had clearly deformed with time. I pried it off and reseated it and the valve is now completely tight.

However - this does now make a much smaller steam leak at the old safety valve show up.

I'll order both valves and swap before I put the whole thing back together.

Thanks again - it's been a learning curve, but really happy that I can now fix this.


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## Achrys (Jun 17, 2019)

Nice one


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