# Finer grind, more sour?



## CrazyH (Jan 14, 2011)

I've been trying to use a Bialletti dripper i picked up (https://www.bialetti.com/coffee/pour-over-coffee-maker-c-1_135.html ), it's not so different to a melitta, i'm using #2 papers in it. 
This morning, i did a brew , bloom, swirl and add water in a single pour. Not dumping or pouring aggressively but relatively quickly. It wasn't too bad, a tad sour and so I presume under-extracted.
Took the grinder (wilfa svart) from the R of Filter to the A of aeropress and as far as I can tell did more or less the same and get a very sour, pretty undrinkable cup.
So now I'm wondering, do I need to take it finer again or go back to the first grind setting and slow the pour rate, or maybe something totally else could have gone wrong but I'm not sure what.
Unfortunately didn't time the brews, in both cases I got a fairly flat bed.
Suggestions/theories welcome


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

CrazyH said:


> I've been trying to use a Bialletti dripper i picked up (https://www.bialetti.com/coffee/pour-over-coffee-maker-c-1_135.html ), it's not so different to a melitta, i'm using #2 papers in it.
> This morning, i did a brew , bloom, swirl and add water in a single pour. Not dumping or pouring aggressively but relatively quickly. It wasn't too bad, a tad sour and so I presume under-extracted.
> Took the grinder (wilfa svart) from the R of Filter to the A of aeropress and as far as I can tell did more or less the same and get a very sour, pretty undrinkable cup.
> So now I'm wondering, do I need to take it finer again or go back to the first grind setting and slow the pour rate, or maybe something totally else could have gone wrong but I'm not sure what.
> ...


Sour or bitter?

Usually sour is associated with water being too cold and under extractions. Bitter is associated with grinding fine and over-extracting.

@MJWB knows quite a bit about pour overs and helped me quite a bit when I was starting off with my V60.


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## CrazyH (Jan 14, 2011)

Might have been some bitterness as well but the overwhelming taste was sourness on the second brew.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

It looks quite different to a Melitta, the hole is large like a V60. Do the #2 papers fit OK?

Flat bed doesn't tell you much.

If the brew is sour, weak, slow down the pour rate. Pour the bloom, then evenly weighted & timed pours until your total weight.

You haven't told us anything about the brew, but try 15g coffee 33g bloom, stir leave until 20s, then 33g every 20sec until 233g.

Report back.


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## CrazyH (Jan 14, 2011)

Hole is probably larger than Melitta but definitely smaller than my v60 (currently out of v60 papers hence using this). The papers fit okish the ribs inside seem designed for melitta papers , but the funky shape means like it looks they've tried to get it working with round filters as well. 
Was trying 16g coffee 40g bloom water, decent shake about, waited until it looked settled and added water up to 250, then a stir round the edge. It is possible I was pouring slower for the first brew even if it wasn't pulsed, the grind wouldn't have been a whole lot finer.
I will give the above recipe this afternoon, thanks!

Edit: More generally with pourovers, I've seen the single/quick pour methods popularised lately to keep up temperature but in my experience the slow pours have given me more consistent results (at least with v60). Leads me to believe that to get the single pour methods correct you need grind bang on as it's not only controlling rate of extraction but flow rate too.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CrazyH said:


> Hole is probably larger than Melitta but definitely smaller than my v60 (currently out of v60 papers hence using this). The papers fit okish the ribs inside seem designed for melitta papers , but the funky shape means like it looks they've tried to get it working with round filters as well.
> Was trying 16g coffee 40g bloom water, decent shake about, waited until it looked settled and added water up to 250, then a stir round the edge. It is possible I was pouring slower for the first brew even if it wasn't pulsed, the grind wouldn't have been a whole lot finer.
> I will give the above recipe this afternoon, thanks!
> 
> Edit: More generally with pourovers, I've seen the single/quick pour methods popularised lately to keep up temperature but in my experience the slow pours have given me more consistent results (at least with v60). Leads me to believe that to get the single pour methods correct you need grind bang on as it's not only controlling rate of extraction but flow rate too.


 Single pour & pulsed pour don't seem to have a marked influence on temperature.

They're not different things - Pulses for coarse/med grind & 1 mug brews, finer grinds can work with a single, fast pour, or two. A long single pour is just a pulsed pour with no gaps. You seemed to have the grind set at a coarser side at the mo' hence the suggestion to pulse.

Why aren't you using the V60 grind? If you keep changing grind you'll be at this for weeks.

Flow rate will be similar for all pour styles, unless you go very coarse and pour at something like 1g/s, or less.

"Extraction rate" isn't a thing. All you really are doing is hitting a normal extraction range in total (which happens when you get the last beverage in the cup), without making the cup too silty.


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## CrazyH (Jan 14, 2011)

Had lost track of what i was doing for v60 and seems like my grinder has shifted a bit lately/ guessed to go a bit coarser as I thought the smaller hole would be limiting flow but seems like it perhaps isn't really.
I'll let you know how i get on!


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## CrazyH (Jan 14, 2011)

@MWJB >>15g coffee 33g bloom, stir leave until 20s, then 33g every 20sec until 233g.

Confirmed, this worked fairly well  , using the same grind. Still a bit of sourness but very drinkable, so I should tighten it up a tad, right? (There's only so good these beans will taste, they're some pretty old union ones.. waiting for the rather terrible local post service to deliver kaffebox)

Interesting observation, the final slurry looked quite different, with the kind of film of mud/fines now at the top, whereas before it was all the big grounds there.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Sure, try fining the grind a tad, but also make sure your pours drop straight down from the kettle spout, early ones should take about 10s each, the last ones might take the full 20s.

I know what you mean with the bed, the filmy mud suggests to me that the pours/agitation might have been a bit too aggressive. I usually see a good mix of grind sizes atop the bed.

If going finer makes the brews a little more bitter/charred, try putting the last 2 pours straight down the middle instead of spirals.


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## CrazyH (Jan 14, 2011)

I realised i never got back to this.
The grinder did possibly need a clean out but I think it's more or less ok now. I'm finding that it has a bit of a grinds retention issue nothing terrible especially with lighter stuff, I might lose half a gram but then what was lost might come out in the next grind - not sure if it always did this or not tbh. In any case, just requires a bit of management (mostly just taking the top burr off and shaking out what's in there), using the hausgrind when I'm less in a rush, though.

Going gentler with the kettle is also keeping things less muddy when doing drip - although in a bit of an aeropress phase at the moment.


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## Rapid (Jun 12, 2020)

CrazyH said:


> I realised i never got back to this.
> The grinder did possibly need a clean out but I think it's more or less ok now. I'm finding that it has a bit of a grinds retention issue nothing terrible especially with lighter stuff, I might lose half a gram but then what was lost might come out in the next grind - not sure if it always did this or not tbh. In any case, just requires a bit of management (mostly just taking the top burr off and shaking out what's in there), using the hausgrind when I'm less in a rush, though.
> 
> Going gentler with the kettle is also keeping things less muddy when doing drip - although in a bit of an aeropress phase at the moment.


 So what was the solution to your initial problem....?


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## CrazyH (Jan 14, 2011)

Keep the grinder clean, I think.. to be honest, I'm not totally sure what was causing it to grind funny.


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