# EK boys



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Can I ask a serious question.....as far as I know, Dave is the only owner of an R120 on the forum. How do the EK boys see this grinder? Is it friend or foe and would anyone upgrade to it if the chance arose?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I might be best placed as an owner if both grinders, the r120 is different to the EK43 in that the inherent sweetness got from the EK is nit there in abundance on the r120, however it does let you get everything out of the coffee you are using and has a transparency unlike any if the grinders I have tried before. Is it an upgrade from the EK? Debatable, is up better made, absolutely, the EK is a tractor compared to the r120.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I'd be interested to try it but the main thing I like about the EK43 is the sweetness so not sure it'd be worth it. Plus it makes the ek look kitchen friendly


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

A quick glance shows this as £150 cheaper than the EK which surprised me.

Is the EK the "sweetest" grinder you guys have tried??


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

grumpydaddy said:


> A quick glance shows this as £150 cheaper than the EK which surprised me.
> 
> Is the EK the "sweetest" grinder you guys have tried??


Try and find one in stock fir less than an EK


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I thought dfk was asking that for the EK boys who haven't owned both, what would attract us to the r120 in theory.

I'm not that interested as the r120 doesn't come with Matt Pergers face on it.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

It is a grinder with different but big burrs in it . I don't see any machine or grinder as a friend or foe ( they are inanimate ) , therefore this would be irrational and illogical .

With the EK I got to see some data on shots measured by a refractometer, particle size and then got to try one myself before I bought one.

I'd like to see the same data and try one before I had a real opinion on one ..

I haven't had a drink from a R120 , so I haven't got a scoobies if it's sweeter , has more clarity or anything

Never say never about changing a piece of equipment , but my current combo gives me a lot of flexibility to achieve different style of shots,and tastes for the same coffees and I'm happy exploring what it can do.

You can still make horrid espresso with an EK ( I've made plenty ) and presumably a R120 , it's not a magic bullett.....sometime the pursuit and change if equipment. Is about a magic answer . I'm slowly learning that spending time with the equipment you have and that the effects of YOUR skills and technique have on the drinks you make, have more of a difference than a new X made by Y ....

That's me all done

Peace out

Spock .......


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> I'm not that interested as the r120 doesn't come with Matt Pergers face on it.


if I remember correctly i think it comes with Coffeechaps head in the hopper !


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Oh yeah on a more practical note , it just wouldn't fit in my kitchen ( the r120 that is )


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

I'm getting on very well with my EK. It does for me what I need to do.

So much faster than the Versalab. Am using Grindz to keep the burrs clean & that seems to work well without taking the Machine apart.

The Versalab needed to be opened up to really clean the burrs


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Upgrade to it?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Interesting thought Gary. I do not know yet. I am not allowed to have an EK since I have slagged them so much and in truth, have no desire for one. Th R120 was just a thought pattern after having read Londiniums blog. The trouble is with his blog though, one day heinz baked beans are the best and a short time later he is promoting Aldi's beans.


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

I like Lidl beans. 4 tins for a pound. I was broken the other day when I had to fork out £1.75 for 4 tins of Heinz on special offer because Lidl had run out of their own brand. Peace out. The End. Etc.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Hoffmonkey said:


> I like Lidl beans. 4 tins for a pound. I was broken the other day when I had to fork out £1.75 for 4 tins of Heinz on special offer because Lidl had run out of their own brand. Peace out. The End. Etc.


I bought 4 Branston beans for £1. They were OK.

One thing I don't like is Sainsbury's no salt, no sugar ones, they taste of nothing.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

jonc said:


> I bought 4 Branston beans for £1. They were OK.
> 
> One thing I don't like is Sainsbury's no salt, no sugar ones, they taste of nothing.


Fat, sugar and salt. The holy trinity of taste


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Hoffmonkey said:


> I like Lidl beans. 4 tins for a pound. I was broken the other day when I had to fork out £1.75 for 4 tins of Heinz on special offer because Lidl had run out of their own brand. Peace out. The End. Etc.


I remember Aldi beans being 9p a tin back when we first got our Flat and had to shop there at least once a month. I was horrified when they went up to 14p:O.

From being a staunch Heinz fan I do now buy Branston beans, maybe you you should try the same with the EK.







I believe the newer standard burr sets on them can give a different shot profile (similar to the traditional espresso).


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

There was that time in about '98/'99 when bread was 19p, Dried pasta 19p and beans 9p.

Was a price war thing.

Then they suddenly all stopped - doubled my food bill overnight.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

More chance of tomorrow being Friday!


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> More chance of tomorrow being Friday!


LOL....unless you've moved to the Chatham Islands in New Zealand I'll take that as a no.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

dfk41 said:


> More chance of tomorrow being Friday!


Can someone explain this to me please? I'm lost!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> I thought dfk was asking that for the EK boys who haven't owned both, what would attract us to the r120 in theory.
> 
> I'm not that interested as the r120 doesn't come with Matt Pergers face on it.


I will butt out then and find me another thread to play on


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

No your input is interesting, the r120 is still a bit of an unknown quantity


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I have had them both, the r120 is not a sensible option for any kitchen, it weighs a ridiculous amount, it looks like a darlek, is not straight into the portafilter simplicity, at least with the EK you can use no hopper or a funnel and it looks right, plus the EK is tried and tested whereas the r120 just has a couple of old fools chatting about it. I like it though, a lot.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> the r120 is not a sensible option for any kitchen, it weighs a ridiculous amount, it looks like a darlek, is not straight into the portafilter simplicity.


When has that stopped any of us?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Tomorrow is Thursday. If tomorrow was Friday which of course if cannot be, then an EK might feature on my wanted list!


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

So tomorrow, you might be interested? If tomorrows tomorrow is not todays tomorrow and todays tomorrow is Thursday then tomorrows tomorrow must be Friday, so on any given Thursday you might think about getting one, but on any other today you won't?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

The EK43 is definitely NOT a grinder which I could recommend to you


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I thought tomorrow never actually existed


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY07-DCQ4EI


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> the r120 is not a sensible option for any kitchen


Would you please define sensible


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

malling said:


> Would you please define sensible


Ha ha, please check out the dimensions and weight and get back to me


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

malling said:


> Would you please define sensible


NOT sensible http://th08.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2013/002/a/3/kitchen_dalek_by_medicinewolf-d5q88h0.jpg


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Mines black though


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

It does however single dose, which is fab for those who don't like to waste coffee, oh and it will grind down to dust!


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## dwalsh1 (Mar 3, 2010)

dfk41 said:


> The trouble is with his blog though, one day heinz baked beans are the best and a short time later he is promoting Aldi's beans.


I remember having a conversation with Reiss and he was telling me that the best water filters are Clarris. Weeks later he was selling Brita


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## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> The EK43 is definitely NOT a grinder which I could recommend to you










What's the problem?


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

dwalsh1 said:


> I remember having a conversation with Reiss and he was telling me that the best water filters are Clarris. Weeks later he was selling Brita


We have never sold Brita filters

As for you DFK41 - pot, kettle?









If you read what i've written on the EK43 i think you will see that i am highly complementary about the taste it delivers in the cup. exceptional, like nothing else, no question

R120 doesn't change the taste of the EK43!

R120 sits head and shoulders above any other grinder i have tried for what i call fidelity - i.e the clarity or accuracy with which it reproduces all the subtle nuances in a roast

and thrown into the bargain, almost for free if you will, is a quality of engineering thought and design that the others haven't even dreamt about yet - get down to Coffee Chaps and see if he will let you have a look under the hood

oh, and I've actually owned both of these grinders and I'm not pitching for sales, just speaking of my ownership experience

kind regards

reiss.


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

dwalsh1 said:


> I remember having a conversation with Reiss and he was telling me that the best water filters are Clarris. Weeks later he was selling Brita


You sure about that?

I know that the Claris was somewhat downgraded by Reiss, but that was after using them. I was certainly one of the detractors... I reckon the product is OK, but it needs to be used where the temporary hardness is not dangerously high, as in London. I measured the remaining hardness in my water with a new Claris, with NO blending, and it barely had an impact. I also know that in standard form, the L1 has a filter included (Bestcup I think?), I have an original plumbed in L1, so I have never seen this. I don't remember much talk about Brita.

In my view the best way to deal with water depends on the type of machine you have and whether your water needs any modification... Plumbed in -> RO + re-mineralisation... Tanked -> A well chosen bottled water.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

As an EK owner I'd be interested to spend some quality time with the R120. At the end of the day coffee is about personal preferences. Some will prefer the EKs sweetness some may prefer the clarity of the R120.

I don't see things as friends or foe, I see many different tools that can help achieve similar or different results. I have a K10 sat next to my ek, it's not better or worse, it's different.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Viernes said:


> What's the problem?


There is no problem with the grinder


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Xpenno said:


> As an EK owner I'd be interested to spend some quality time with the R120. At the end of the day coffee is about personal preferences. Some will prefer the EKs sweetness some may prefer the clarity of the R120.
> 
> I don't see things as friends or foe, I see many different tools that can help achieve similar or different results. I have a K10 sat next to my ek, it's not better or worse, it's different.


Its worse for bulk grinding


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Its worse for bulk grinding


I do drink a fair bit of coffee so I'll take that into account


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Question for those who have used the R120 in anger. Dies this definition span all brew methods I.e. espresso, chemex etc...


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Need to remember that home-user sales of this class of grinder is


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Spence to be honest, I don't know! I don't spend much time on other brew methods, I will try it out and come back to you, will do EK and r120 side by sides.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Reiss, I actually read your blog and as usual, enjoyed it. I find very few people speak with the passion you enthuse, but, the point I was making is that you are a retailer. You spoke with the same passion regarding the HG One. then eventually you find a new and better grinder, in this case and move your affections to it. I bought an HG One based upon your recommendations at the time. As you know, it was not for me. I have no problem in having bought it. it just ticks another box. In fact, I owned it for such a short period of time that I bought a second one this year, and it stayed an even shorter period of time! So, the point I was making, was to ask the EK boys if they had considered an R120.

With regards to yourself, I think it quite fair to point out your enthusiasm for something and the fact that from time to time, and probably quite correctly, your focus shifts. My coffee experience will be very very different to yours. An R120 will probably suit your needs. As for pot and kettle....possibly but no one listens to what i have to say, whereas you are a centre of influence!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Need to remember that home-user sales of this class of grinder is
> 
> I think that a lot shops also buy them because they offer something totally different as well gary, no other grinder extracts the sweetness from a coffee like the ek43 does, coupled to the fact that it is probably the most diverse of grinders (will report back on the r120 as previous) it makes sense, especially for venues that are quality over quantity focused.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

For sure, we sell loads to those who are after clarity and sweetness, not many have gone all-out EK for espresso service tho.

A common set-up is :

Mythos 1 or k30 for espresso service

EK for single origin/ filter / bulk grinding


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Reiss, I actually read your blog and as usual, enjoyed it. I find very few people speak with the passion you enthuse, but, the point I was making is that you are a retailer. You spoke with the same passion regarding the HG One. then eventually you find a new and better grinder, in this case and move your affections to it. I bought an HG One based upon your recommendations at the time. As you know, it was not for me. I have no problem in having bought it. it just ticks another box. In fact, I owned it for such a short period of time that I bought a second one this year, and it stayed an even shorter period of time! So, the point I was making, was to ask the EK boys if they had considered an R120.
> 
> With regards to yourself, I think it quite fair to point out your enthusiasm for something and the fact that from time to time, and probably quite correctly, your focus shifts. My coffee experience will be very very different to yours. An R120 will probably suit your needs. As for pot and kettle....possibly but no one listens to what i have to say, whereas you are a centre of influence!


Dave can you not see that people might say the same thing about your recommendations when you buy something and change it ?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Reference is constantly made to th EK's ability to extract the bean's sweetness - where this excels is with lighter roast beans that are invariably quite sharp/acidic when pulled as espresso through other grinders. With the EK the same beans produce fruit notes without the sharpness and, for me, open up a whole range of roasts I wouldn't have previously gone near for espresso. Downside, if there is one, darker roasts don't have quite the same body through the EK.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I lent my ek to a local cafe for the coffee festival. The owner hadn't had much time with one before and said he was a bit sceptical about it but he was amazed with the difference in flavour for brewed/how you could push the extractions.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Boots I very rarely make recommendations because I am not comfortable with telling people to do what I have, so the answer is no

I buy things, use them and move them on. I do not ask anyone to copy me


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> but no one listens to what i have to say, whereas you are a centre of influence!


 I simply wanted to say, for what its worth, that I do listen to what to you say and whether or not I agree with everything you say and how you sometimes say it, what I value is that you wear your heart on your sleeve. You seem happy to raise questions and challenge when others might not (even if you are sometimes playing devil's advocate). I'm still at an early stage of coffee obsession, have learnt so much from this forum in a short space of time, and you have contributed to this learning - I appreciate and I listen. I'm learning who to listen to on this forum and what to listen to them about. It's good.


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## indend007 (Mar 31, 2014)

Anyone who knows Ek43 retentions? I tested R120 yesterday and I found that has beautiful retention about less 0.5g.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

R120, EK, Both are large and exotic and probably not aimed at this market. That folks discovered they have something to offer the espresso fanatics community is a bonus.... but are there other candidates do you think? For example I wanted to suggest maybe Ditting grinders. Has anyone been there, done that?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

indend007 said:


> Anyone who knows Ek43 retentions? I tested R120 yesterday and I found that has beautiful retention about less 0.5g.


Around 0.5grml - helped by the burrs running vertically as opposed to horizontally.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Around 0.5grml - helped by the burrs running vertically as opposed to horizontally.


Agreed, if you do a deep clean then you may find another couple of grams in there but this only comes into play when you do a deep clean i.e. they fill a couple of gaps and stay there.

R120 looks like it is well designed inside from that pic.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Xpenno said:


> Agreed, if you do a deep clean then you may find another couple of grams in there but this only comes into play when you do a deep clean i.e. they fill a couple of gaps and stay there.
> 
> R120 looks like it is well designed inside from that pic.


The exit chute mech and burr chamber are really well designed on the r120, I have very very little retention on mine!


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## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

indend007 said:


> Anyone who knows Ek43 retentions? I tested R120 yesterday...


How about the output, is it also fine like dust powder like out of an EK or is it more the size like any espresso grinder ?

Also, do you have to grind very close to zero point for a proper flow rate ?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

It will grind from turkish all the way out to coarse and for a good flow rate is nowhere near zero point


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## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> It will grind from turkish all the way out to coarse and for a good flow rate is nowhere near zero point


Sounds like a usual espresso grinder regarding particle size and distribution with a good design to avoid retention.


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