# Liz or MaraX



## simplyme (Jan 2, 2020)

Hi all, now I think I know the answer to this but just want inputs from other users here....

Current Setup:

2013 Classic, Pid, opv 9 bar, rancillo steam wand, VST and IMS basket (use VST mostly) paired with a Specialita grinder

Living on my own was fine, I pull 4 shots a day and non milk based mostly. However, I have now moved in with the Mrs who drinks milk based drinks like they are going out of fashion. So every time I pull a drink, she wants one too, chuck in the 18 yr old who asks for a cappucino when she hears the machine going, I am at 3 in a row, plus milk, twice 

I am pretty certain the Liz would be the better option considering my scenario but just wanted a sanity check really.

Thanks for your time and look forward to opinions


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

simplyme said:


> Hi all, now I think I know the answer to this but just want inputs from other users here....
> 
> Current Setup:
> 
> ...


 Ha! The never ending dilemma! Well, I admire coping with that type of demand with a Gaggia Classic. That's an achievement in itself. 🙂

I have the Elizabeth and I like it quite a lot. Simple, no real maintenance apart from backflushing. Warms up quickly, etc, etc.

The MaraX is an E61 machine and HX. The only reason why it's really useful is because it's clever, but that cleverness is based on an algorithm that is based on common patterns in order to keep the temperature in the HX manageable by means of regulating the temperature inside the service boiler. If you work against the algorithm, you will find the machine becomes inconsistent and you'll have to let it "reset" itself.

The best thing you can do is to read and re-read DavecUK's reviews of the machines. Picture yourself making coffees and think about your day to day routines.

Personally - (I'm not bias at all, there are two members here who asked me advice and I recommended something totally different!) - I would go for the Elizabeth given your scenario.

I think @spookym has a similar pattern to yours in his household and is very happy with the Elizabeth.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

simplyme said:


> Hi all, now I think I know the answer to this but just want inputs from other users here....
> 
> Current Setup:
> 
> ...


 Either machine will do the job.....go with what you like best.

If you want super simple and big performance go Minima, will cope easily and steam boiler can also be off when not required, just like Liz


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> (I'm not bias at all, there are two members here who asked me advice and I recommended something totally different!)





DavecUK said:


> super simple and big performance go Minima,


 And that was my suggestion to the members who asked for my input! 🙂


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> And that was my suggestion to the members who asked for my input! 🙂


 yup at the £1250 and below mark, there are many more good choices than there ever used to be


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## simplyme (Jan 2, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Ha! The never ending dilemma! Well, I admire coping with that type of demand with a Gaggia Classic. That's an achievement in itself. 🙂


 It is definitely an achievement haha



DavecUK said:


> If you want super simple and big performance go Minima, will cope easily and steam boiler can also be off when not required, just like Liz


 I had a look at the minima but prefer the Liz I think, plus it is in stock at BB and I am only 5 minutes from there now, which could be dangerous!

Is there anything else I should look at before fully deciding on the Liz? I think DB would suit us better than a HX, well her anyway!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

simplyme said:


> Is there anything else I should look at before fully deciding on the Liz?


 Read the in-depth reviews three times each, alternately. Then sleep over, and then make your mind on what you want. 🙂 - I don't think you'd be disappointed with the Elizabeth.


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

simplyme said:


> Hi all, now I think I know the answer to this but just want inputs from other users here....
> 
> Current Setup:
> 
> ...


 Sounds similar to my usage pattern. I upgraded from a classic to the Elizabeth this week and am really impressed.


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

Just unpacked my Elizabeth took a picture so you can see them together


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

Frequently bought with - Rocket Espresso Bottomless Portafilter! Have you turned it on yet?


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

Kjk said:


> Frequently bought with - Rocket Espresso Bottomless Portafilter! Have you turned it on yet?


 I have - Ground a random amount of coffee into my strange new portafilter (VST still in the Classic) and ran a shot for 25 secs and it was great!

The morning awaits and milk steaming ☕


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

simplyme said:


> Hi all, now I think I know the answer to this but just want inputs from other users here....
> 
> Current Setup:
> 
> ...


 Unless you are at the very extreme ends of your budget (ie you will face divorce if you overspend) then I really, really fail to see any reason to pick the MaraX over the Elizabeth. With the additional £150 of the Elizabeth you get:

- higher temp precision (MaraX operates in wider temp ranges, Dave has shown how you can sort of get your way around it to target a precise value, but still)

- better temp stability on back to back shots (MaraX might, emphasis on might, overheat, if you want to make all drinks back to back. However, your Mrs might not care as she drinks with milk, and probably your daughter doesn't care either because at that age, who does..).

- better steam power (might be moot if you are not making all of the drinks at the same time..)

- fancy quirks like customisable pre-infusion if you're wanting to experiment

- less maintenance, not having to lubricate the cam lever when you backflush with detergent.

So, those additional £150 give you *a lot*. If none of that is of value to you, then MaraX is surely more than capable.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Baffo said:


> Unless you are at the very extreme ends of your budget (ie you will face divorce if you overspend) then I really, really fail to see any reason to pick the MaraX over the Elizabeth


 And you can also add the faster heat up time of the Elizabeth.

but I don't see it like this. MaraX is a top of the range HX. Elizabeth is an entry level dual boiler.

for the MaraX:
- Has a nicer tank, open and therefore more accessible.
- The quality of the knobs and the steam tap is far superior to the Elizabeth.
- It comes with a nice tamper.
- Sports an e61, if that's your thing, which would allow you to fit a flow profiling valve if you wish to do so in the future.
- It's a simpler design (one boiler), so less things to go wrong.


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## Ando (Jan 11, 2021)

+1 for the Liz, it's a joy to use and I can see myself using it for a very long time. 
@Baffo What machine did u go for in the end?? I remember u were lost in the sea of uncertainty for a bit with all the research


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

@MediumRoastSteam I see your points on the nicer tank and tamper. I hadn't considered that (and I wasn't aware of the knobs on the Elizabeth being poor).

Re: the profiling kit I'd argue than if your aim is to upgrade down the line, one might well get the Minima then, bothering about flow profiling (advanced) when the machine isn't the best with temp stability (basic) seems a bit counterintuitive. But I see how the MaraX could be pimped. I wonder how would it do when it comes to temp stability with very long extractions?


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Ando said:


> +1 for the Liz, it's a joy to use and I can see myself using it for a very long time.
> @Baffo What machine did u go for in the end?? I remember u were lost in the sea of uncertainty for a bit with all the research


 I shan't comment on my choice. I'm a horrible person.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Baffo said:


> I shan't comment on my choice. I'm a horrible person.


 Do tell!


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

@MediumRoastSteam

This one


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## simplyme (Jan 2, 2020)

Ok, well I popped down to Bella earlier (It is only 10 mins from the new house) and now have the Liz in my possession. Sometimes being impulsive is bad 

Won't have it set up until tomorrow now as need to head back to mine and get the grinder.

I want something to put on top of the cup warming, anyone have any links? Or would something like cookamesh do? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unifit-Cookamesh/dp/B003FTH9BG


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

simplyme said:


> Ok, well I popped down to Bella earlier (It is only 10 mins from the new house) and now have the Liz in my possession. Sometimes being impulsive is bad
> 
> Won't have it set up until tomorrow now as need to head back to mine and get the grinder.
> 
> I want something to put on top of the cup warming, anyone have any links? Or would something like cookamesh do? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unifit-Cookamesh/dp/B003FTH9BG


 Awesome, could you actually go into the showroom and have a look around? I was working 20 mins away in Kettering the other day and wanted to visit but their website says closed due to COVID.


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## simplyme (Jan 2, 2020)

Unfortunately not at the moment, all collections are via the warehouse at the back. I can't wait for it to open and be able to nose around and have a drink. They even have a vending machine out the front with fresh beans all bagged up, which is great to know!


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

simplyme said:


> Unfortunately not at the moment, all collections are via the warehouse at the back. I can't wait for it to open and be able to nose around and have a drink. They even have a vending machine out the front with fresh beans all bagged up, which is great to know!


 That's cool, next time I'm close by I might take a look. Haven't had any beans from Bella barista for a while. Enjoy the new machine.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Kyle T said:


> I want something to put on top of the cup warming, anyone have any links? Or would something like cookamesh do? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unifit-Cookamesh/dp/B003FTH9BG


 I'm not sure cookamesh is a great idea. I've seen members using some sort of anti-slip fabric. I saw that for sale at hobby craft when it was open. As for me, I just keep a microfibre cloth there, and don't use it for warming cups.


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

Maybe someone should make a quick-reference comparison table for Mininma, MaraX and Liz and make it a sticky.


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

-Mac said:


> Maybe someone should make a quick-reference comparison table for Mininma, MaraX and Liz and make it a sticky.


 Surely the MaraX doesn't even compare to the other two as the Mara is a HX and the other two are DB's.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

it doesn't, totally different animals


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

Kyle T said:


> Surely the MaraX doesn't even compare to the other two as the Mara is a HX and the other two are DB's.


 It's often something people say they are choosing between, though.


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

simplyme said:


> Ok, well I popped down to Bella earlier (It is only 10 mins from the new house) and now have the Liz in my possession. Sometimes being impulsive is bad
> 
> Won't have it set up until tomorrow now as need to head back to mine and get the grinder.
> 
> I want something to put on top of the cup warming, anyone have any links? Or would something like cookamesh do? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unifit-Cookamesh/dp/B003FTH9BG


 Here you go:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B004MIIZI0?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


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## simplyme (Jan 2, 2020)

Thanks @HVL87


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Kyle T said:


> Awesome, could you actually go into the showroom and have a look around? I was working 20 mins away in Kettering the other day and wanted to visit but their website says closed due to COVID.


 I use this stuff, just cut a nice square...works a treat

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ganvol-Anti-slip-Luggage-suitable-Trailer/dp/B07SJLM46M/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=non+slip+boot+protector+mat&qid=1613745750&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFNVlpMUjBMTjFWNlEmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAwOTIwMTIzQlFQTTlYM0FIR1dPJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAzNTcxMTExOE5WQ05ZOFc2TkMyJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Kyle T said:


> the Mara is a HX


 But it behaves similar to a dual boiler. 🙂 - that's why it's appealing.


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I'm not sure cookamesh is a great idea. I've seen members using some sort of anti-slip fabric. I saw that for sale at hobby craft when it was open. As for me, I just keep a microfibre cloth there, and don't use it for warming cups.


 I have this


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@Uncletits - Looks like this is exactly what you need! 👍


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Uncletits - Looks like this is exactly what you need! 👍


 I have a roll of it now and it's very good


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