# Latte art , gaggia and tips



## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Split from free pour Friday .

some great tips and clips for everyone given to burnzy over the course of a few days

Yeah scotford,

really nice!!!

My efforts today... Not in the same league yet...


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

Still looking nice burnzy


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

This mornings rosetta, slight improvement.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Hey,

for some reason when i come to pour my rosetta it starts spinning so it looks like a feather?? No matter how much i slow the pour down... Is it over swirling the milk in the jug just before the pour?? Cant understand it.. Any ideas??


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

So as you can see the surface of my coffee is swirling which takes my milk with it.

im not swirling my espresso, or the stream of the milk as im pouring... Truly confused by it, gettinh some great milk now and now this... :-/


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Are u holding the cup level

Are you starting the pour in the centre of the cup.

If your pouring off to the side if can make the drink spin in the cup slightly


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Are u holding the cup level
> 
> Are you starting the pour in the centre of the cup.
> 
> If your pouring off to the side if can make the drink spin in the cup slightly


maybe thats it, im trying to mirror chris from smokey barns rosetta video, i start with the cup tilted, maybe im not quite getting it central... Its doing my head in!! Thanks again boots. Back to the pouring board.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Burnzy, you're pouring off centre. It can make some completely different patterns. I'll upload some tomorrow with descriptions.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Scotford said:


> Burnzy, you're pouring off centre. It can make some completely different patterns. I'll upload some tomorrow with descriptions.


Thankyou scotford.. That would be great thanks..


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Okay, so now my day has quietened down, I poured this to give you an idea of the basic pattern that you'll get from round the side pours.










This is the kinda thing that you can get playing with once you've got the hang of it.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Ah thanks, i seem to be getting the swirl but i dont want it... Obviously need to stick to the centre... Thanks for that, really appreciate it. They all look great as well.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Hi,

so i made a video of me pouring a rosetta to show the swirl, although it didnt really happen this time and the rosetta turned out ok-ish 




any tips would be appreciated, slow down/speed up ? Forgive the dodgy tripod and video...


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## GarethX (Mar 9, 2014)

Hi Burnzy

There's probably people on here who can give better advice but here's my observations:

1. Slow it down, pour higher initially to puncture the crema and raise the level in the cup (should be no movement of liquid in the cup at this point i.e. swirling), then lower to do the art bit

2. The milk looks quite fluid coming out of the jug almost as if any foam isn't mixed in properly, and it looks like you might have a fair bit of foam left in the jug (but difficult to tell for sure).

3. Following some advice I found on somebody's instagram account I now froth in a 12oz jug and then put into a 20oz jug to pour art, an extra step and maybe a bit of a faff but it's allowed me to slow my pours down and get the spout closer to the surface for the art bit

4. There's loads of awesome videos on instagram, I follow ada_crew ben_morrow freepourart and alanchancoffee and tend to watch these over and over to pick up ideas and technique.

5. It takes lots of practise, failures, mistakes, and frustration so persevere. I've felt like giving up countless times, in fact I've taken a break from rosettas and swapped to tulips - something I was absolutely hopeless at 4 weeks ago but am seeing some improvement now. Just wish I got chance to pour more, but there's only so much caffeine I can tolerate.

Hope that helps.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

GarethX said:


> Hi Burnzy
> 
> There's probably people on here who can give better advice but here's my observations:
> 
> ...


thanks so much, i really appreciate your time to help me... I will check those out and ive heard others pour it into bigger jugs before... So i may invest in a bigger jug..,

Cant wait for the morning now to try again..


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

I really should have uploadsed a videos but im a bit durnk and i think yuo have pretttt got it. parctidemade purfuct


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Scotford said:


> I really should have uploadsed a videos but im a bit durnk and i think yuo have pretttt got it. parctidemade purfuct


Go home scotford your drunk!!


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Ugh. Must. Not. Drink. Friday. Nights.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

You should of done some latte art videos last night


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Burnzy said:


> any tips would be appreciated, slow down/speed?


In comparison with what I do (which may not be best practice):

As you fill the cup (ie before you drop the jug and start the wiggle art) you move around the middle of the cup, where I stay still.* It looks to me like your early movement (which is still quite subtle) combined with rate of your pour sets up different speed vortices on either side of your pour. The faster side ends up pulling your Rosetta to one side.

I think my pour is a bit slower and higher than yours (ie gravity rather than speed is what sinks the milk). Once I've filled, I drop the spout and pour steady lower and a little faster toward the back of the cup (probably a bit forward of centre actually) floating rather than sinking the milk. As I see a stable bloom of floating foam appear forward of centre I start the wiggle and retreat the pour (almost as if I'm pushing backward off the bloom).

* the exception to non-movement during the fill phase is if I start breaking the crema too soon! I then go higher and pour over these areas again to re-sink the milk and restore the crema. Then back to the middle.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Obnic said:


> In comparison with what I do (which may not be best practice):
> 
> As you fill the cup (ie before you drop the jug and start the wiggle art) you move around the middle of the cup, where I stay still.* It looks to me like your early movement (which is still quite subtle) combined with rate of your pour sets up different speed vortices on either side of your pour. The faster side ends up pulling your Rosetta to one side.
> 
> ...


i think your assessment is spot on!! Thankyou, im going to work on keeping it central... Thanks obnic


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Burnzy said:


> thanks so much, i really appreciate your time to help me... I will check those out and ive heard others pour it into bigger jugs before... So i may invest in a bigger jug..,
> 
> Cant wait for the morning now to try again..


I go the complete opposite way. steam in a bigger jug and pour from a smaller (10oz I think) jug.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Scotford said:


> I go the complete opposite way. steam in a bigger jug and pour from a smaller (10oz I think) jug.


Im looking forward to seeing a video of a pour


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

I will eventually get my shit together and dig out the gopro for you. Eventually


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

Burnzy said:


> Hi,
> 
> so i made a video of me pouring a rosetta to show the swirl, although it didnt really happen this time and the rosetta turned out ok-ish
> 
> ...


Hi, Had a look, imo your milk isnt right. It's too thin at the beginning and all the foam at the end. Needs to be all the same consistency. Otherwise the technique looks good.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

smokeybarn said:


> Hi, Had a look, imo your milk isnt right. It's too thin at the beginning and all the foam at the end. Needs to be all the same consistency. Otherwise the technique looks good.


Thanks for your input

Would that be a case of getting the 'wave' going earlier???


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Not sure why i didnt try this before, but noticed my barista doing it and i think boots may of mentioned it to me... But swirling a bit of milk in the espresso then carry on pouring...

Im getting a much nicer flat white, the coffee and milk seem much more folded together and a really neat canvass to do art on....

Not very good art but lovely looking and tasting.... Chuffed!!


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## GarethX (Mar 9, 2014)

Nice contrast Burnzy!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Getting the hang of it Burnzy.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Sorry to keep posting but im soooo chuffed with this effort... My first tulip style, the draw through at the end was rubbish i know... Promise i wont post anymore for a while


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

That's not bad at all. It's looks quite bubbly, are you over stretching it? looks like too much air in the milk.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

seeq said:


> That's not bad at all. It's looks quite bubbly, are you over stretching it? looks like too much air in the milk.


Yes i think i am, i had done a rosetta, but then put my sugar in and stirred, then used the bit left in the jug to do this which was very frothy..... Was just chuffed to get that pushing the milk away effect... But yeah i think i am over stretching... Im on a classic and doing the hissy kissing noise to just under 30 degrees... So about 7-8 seconds... Then try and get the wave going.. How long do others do it on the classic?


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

I don't actually know, I do it until the jug is warm to touch. It could be the combining after that you are struggling with. That took me ages to get right. Are you getting a good roll after you've stretched the milk?


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

seeq said:


> I don't actually know, I do it until the jug is warm to touch. It could be the combining after that you are struggling with. That took me ages to get right. Are you getting a good roll after you've stretched the milk?


Hmmm sometimes, on occasions i find it hard to get it going, ive even started giving the jug a quick swirl as it gets the milk going... But I'm getting better at it, i think its a combination of the under powered steam on the classic and my skills.....


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Burnzy said:


> Hmmm sometimes, on occasions i find it hard to get it going, ive even started giving the jug a quick swirl as it gets the milk going... But I'm getting better at it, i think its a combination of the under powered steam on the classic and my skills.....


It is quite tough on a classic. I think I'm getting there on mine, but it's so hard to judge.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Need to get the air into the milk as soon as possible - in the first few seconds - then raise the jug so the tip is just below the surface and the 'tsp, tsp' sounds are stopped. Steam tip should then be positioned to side of jug (not touching) to maximise swirl vortex. If the stretched milk looks shiny and glassy, it's perfect. If it's surface looks matte and dull - it's over-stretched.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Need to get the air into the milk as soon as possible - in the first few seconds - then raise the jug so the tip is just below the surface and the 'tsp, tsp' sounds are stopped. Steam tip should then be positioned to side of jug (not touching) to maximise swirl vortex. If the stretched milk looks shiny and glassy, it's perfect. If it's surface looks matte and dull - it's over-stretched.


Thanks.. My milk is always glassy and shiny though..... Is it literally just a few seconds of introducing air?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Depends on amount of milk you're steaming and the power of your steam wand but the principle remains the same for all machines. Get the air in as soon as possible so you can use the remainder of the time the milk is coming up to temp to fold the air into the milk to get a nice even texture.

If your milk is glassy and shiny Burnzy - you're spot on.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Burnzy said:


> Promise i wont post anymore for a while


Why. We revel in your triumphs, it's great to see. Your tulip is better than mine already too. On second thoughts 'pipe down!'


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Nice to see that you're getting the hang of it now Burnzy. Keep on keeping on.


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

I reckon you've got enough air, you just need to manipulate the position of the jug to get a good whirlpool going on. If you get a layer of foam beginning to appear on top of the whirlpool, you need to re-position the jug to make that whirlpool suck the foam back under into the mix, rather than allowing it to build up on top.

The good news is, this is fine tuning - you're nearly there! (don't forget the washing up liquid for practising).


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I've been trying to do this on my classic too but so far nothing worth posting pics of! Sometimes the milk looks right (gloss paint) but I get the pour wrong, or by the time I've poured it the milk has started to separate into liquid and 'foam'. The texture and mouth feel are very drinkable but I can't get any contrast and then the last bit of milk just sits on top like cream. Well done Burnzy you're doing much better than me!


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

Have you got the Rancillio steam wand upgrade? Makes a big difference


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Split from free pour Friday ......


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Cheers SB. Yes my classic has all the mods including the Auber pid with steam control and the Sylvia wand. Nowhere to hide, it's me (unless I blame the cow Tesco use!)


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

Post a video so we can see what's happening.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Yes post a vid, love seeing other peoples pours!! Must admit i think my issue now is getting my air and milk properly mixed!! This latte art really takes time to nail doesnt it!!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Not sure I can do a video and make coffee at the same time! Here's a pic though. I wasn't sure whether to post it in this thread or under "Muppetry"!

I think it looks like a very hungry sheep! We could probably do Rorschach tests with my efforts!


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

The milk consistency looks pretty good actually - creamy and no big bubbles, nice contrast with the crema. My guess is that you started to run out just as you were drawing your sheep. That's easy to fix - steam more milk than you think you'll need.


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

Hard to say without watching you do it


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Lattesaurus Rex! Yes, I thought the milk was fairly good, no bubbles and glossy, but obviously my pour was rubbish, didn't get arcs. Then I stopped just short of the bit at the end where the milk tends to sit on top rather than sink and reappear. I'll try more milk and leave more on the jug next time.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

To give you the best chance of good microfoam might i suggest you go for Cravendale milk and probably go for whole milk rather than semi skimmed.

Ian


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

You may indeed. I was under the impression that whole milk gives a creamier taste but will still foam similar to semi, though until I try I can't say so next time I get some milk I'll try one or the other of your suggestions.

Thinking about it I reckon it's my pour though. I produced some lovely milk this afternoon, amazing glossy texture. Got it to duck under the crema OK but I think maybe I didn't pour close enough to the surface as all the milk I "wiggled" just sank, except the last bit in the jug which slid out and sat on top.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

hotmetal said:


> You may indeed. I was under the impression that whole milk gives a creamier taste but will still foam similar to semi, though until I try I can't say so next time I get some milk I'll try one or the other of your suggestions.
> 
> Thinking about it I reckon it's my pour though. I produced some lovely milk this afternoon, amazing glossy texture. Got it to duck under the crema OK but I think maybe I didn't pour close enough to the surface as all the milk I "wiggled" just sank, except the last bit in the jug which slid out and sat on top.


Whole milk is slower to froth and I find it harder to mess up with bigger bubbles. Semi stretches more quickly and can sometimes take on bigger bubbles.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Hm, I'm not getting any bubbles as such, and with the classic the problem isn't that it happens too fast! Sometimes I stretch it too much or slip and introduce some bubbles when there's no time to reintegrate but usually it seems like a good texture. Today's had no visible bubbles, it was like cream, and that was from semi.


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## Brewdog (Jun 29, 2014)

Think this is one of my best yet....long way to go though!!


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