# Classic making average coffee



## TomBorealis (Oct 29, 2017)

I bought a Classic a few months back from a forum member. It has quite a few modifications - PID, brass shower head, IMS screen, Invensys pump, 9bar pressure. I have been making distinctly average espresso with it since day 1. I assumed this was down to it being a beginner, however last weekend I was at my parents house and made repeatedly excellent espresso on a La Pavoni Europiccola. It was the first time I had used that machine or a lever for that matter. I guessed the weight for the stock basket at 13g and was using a tamper that didn't come anywhere close to fitting. It was reproducably better than that from my machine. I have to admit I'm stumped. I would have sinked my shot from the Classic this morning if I had the time to try again.

I'm using a 15g VST basket in a naked portafilter. I start the machine 30 mins before using it, with the portafilter in to preheat and the PID temp is set at 94C. I use Tesco Ashbeck water. My grinder is a Feldgrind2 which I weigh into. I grind 15g of beans, tap into the portafilter then use WDT. I'm using a 58.5mm flat tamper and am tamping level. I use scales under my shot glass and extract 28g in around 30s. I can see that the espresso comes through evenly, and forms a single stream.

It looks great in the glass but has an underlying bitterness that I can't get rid of. Looking at the puck, I can often see one or two round holes in the top layer about 5mm across and 3-4mm deep. They always appear in the same locations - about where the 4 holes are in the brass shower head above the screen. I'm assuming this is the root of my problem, however I have no idea how to fix the issue.

I'll grab some pictures in the morning and attach. Any help diagnosing my issue would be very appreciated.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

As a Classic user for 2 months I'm nowhere near as experienced as the experts here. I'd just ask what your cleaning routines are like, particularly how often you take off the shower screen and clean it and check all the holes are free. Don't over tighten the screen when you replace it as it might distort - just enough to secure it. In my case all my worst shots were due to the water not being hot enough so I use the steam switch to boost it, but with a PID I'm not sure how that figures unless it isn't functioning as it should. Does the previous owner have any hints? Was he/she satisfied with his/her shots?


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## TomBorealis (Oct 29, 2017)

Thanks for the suggestions les24preludes

My cleaning routine:

- Screen brush after every shot and short flush

- Water backflush after every series of shots

- Backflush with cleaner weekly

- Shower screen off and soaked in cleaner once so far. It wasn't very dirty in there so I'm intending to do it monthly.

Previous owner was satisfied, and we made some really good shots together when he was demonstrating the machine. I took my grinder along so other than the beans everything is the same.

It could be something up with the PID I guess. Perhaps the offset has been lost? I have noticed that it overshoots the set temperature by a good 10C when initially warming up, then drops lower than the set temp. This is indicative of the incorrect P, I and D values and I'm intending to get in touch with the PID maker to get a manual and the expected values.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

TomBorealis said:


> I bought a Classic a few months back from a forum member. It has quite a few modifications - PID, brass shower head, IMS screen, Invensys pump, 9bar pressure. I have been making distinctly average espresso with it since day 1. I assumed this was down to it being a beginner, however last weekend I was at my parents house and made repeatedly excellent espresso on a La Pavoni Europiccola. It was the first time I had used that machine or a lever for that matter. I guessed the weight for the stock basket at 13g and was using a tamper that didn't come anywhere close to fitting. It was reproducably better than that from my machine. I have to admit I'm stumped. I would have sinked my shot from the Classic this morning if I had the time to try again.
> 
> I'm using a 15g VST basket in a naked portafilter. I start the machine 30 mins before using it, with the portafilter in to preheat and the PID temp is set at 94C. I use Tesco Ashbeck water. My grinder is a Feldgrind2 which I weigh into. I grind 15g of beans, tap into the portafilter then use WDT. I'm using a 58.5mm flat tamper and am tamping level. I use scales under my shot glass and extract 28g in around 30s. I can see that the espresso comes through evenly, and forms a single stream.
> 
> ...


Do you know what the offset on the PID is set to? It should be 8° to show the correct temp at the grouphead.


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## TomBorealis (Oct 29, 2017)

Thanks ashcroc. That is definitely something I want to check. I don't have the manual for the PID but it is a Mr. Shades kit so I'm hoping he will send me a copy. Would overly bitter be under or over temp? It doesn't boil as it comes out of the screen.


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Firstly are your beans fresh and from a reputable supplier?

Second have you tried other ratios? At the mo your near 1:2 (not the only one out there) try a series 1:1, 1:2.5, 1:3, 1:4, 1:5 are any of these more tasty to you? If you find one is better, work with it by adjusting your grind either finer or more course until you can't improve it further, or it gets less tasty.

Next try adjusting your dose in the basket, a 15g vst is rated +/-1g again try differing doses to see if you can improve taste.

So long as the pid is working correctly a temp of 94c is in the correct ball park and would be the last thing to change.

Remember only adjust ONE thing at a time or else you won't know where any improvement/deteriation came from, and keep a few notes during this testing maybe.

Hope this helps


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## Mmiah (Feb 13, 2015)

run the pump with the portafilter off, does the water come out evenly across the surface of the shower screen? or does some area have more flow?

check the pressure of the water at the group as well


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## Liasis (Mar 15, 2018)

Mmiah said:


> run the pump with the portafilter off, does the water come out evenly across the surface of the shower screen? or does some area have more flow?
> 
> check the pressure of the water at the group as well


I'm a new Gaggia owner and struggling to pull a proper shot. On my machine the water doesn't really come out evenly; it seems to pool towards one side of the screen - what should I make of that?


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Liasis said:


> I'm a new Gaggia owner and struggling to pull a proper shot. On my machine the water doesn't really come out evenly; it seems to pool towards one side of the screen - what should I make of that?


A possibility:-

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/levelling-the-coffee-machine


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Liasis said:


> I'm a new Gaggia owner and struggling to pull a proper shot. On my machine the water doesn't really come out evenly; it seems to pool towards one side of the screen - what should I make of that?


How clean is your shower screen?


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## Liasis (Mar 15, 2018)

Shower screen is very clean, just cleaned it from gunk when I got it.

When they say level the machine, they literally just mean whether it's level across the group head area?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Ignore the puck holes they can nothing , the OPV creates them after extraction.

What is the coffee?

Have you tried changing the brew ratio , as the one you are using isn't delivering in the cup


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Liasis said:


> Shower screen is very clean, just cleaned it from gunk when I got it.
> 
> When they say level the machine, they literally just mean whether it's level across the group head area?


Yes, level across the group head as illustrated in the linked article. Looking at the machine from the front, level across the group head left to right as well as front to back with the portafilter removed. Do not try to use the top of the machine or the drip tray as these often don't align with the group. When I first found the article and checked mine it was way out because of the work surface, after following the advice to level the pours were much much more even.


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## Stu (Jan 3, 2018)

Have you tried different water?

I find Tesco Ashbeck to not taste great with my Classic.

It is quite acidic at pH of 6.2 and has low hardness and low alkalinity, which do not balance the acidic coffee well.


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