# Help please :-)



## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

Ok so ive got a decent enough set up, A classic and a mignon. My first aim was to get a 60ml (double) shot in around 25 seconds. Achieved that but the coffee taste didnt seem quite right. A little bitter and none if the flavour notes coming through.

After a little research on here i discovered i should be weighing in and weighing out. So, im putting 16g in the tamper and getting 62g out! Its only up to the 60ml mark on the shot glass though. shouldn't this be more like 35g ? what am i doing wrong? Im using kitchen scales which are meant to measure to 0.1g but not sure of accuracy.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Robbo said:


> what am i doing wrong?


Getting very confused by the sounds of it......

A ballpark figure: 16g dry coffee into about 32g (wet coffee)

Some people would go for more 16g into about 25g

both in about 30seconds.

That's normally a good starting point.... so 16g into 60g is pretty "long"..... it's not wrong if thats what you like but just not normally what people aim for.....

Try for the smaller output and see what it's like.... when you are in the ballpark for repeatable etc you can adjust output bit by bit until you hit your preference.

or possibly add some clean hot water to get the volume (an americano - i.e. adding water to an espresso is different from pulling more water through the puck)


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

In addition to what Drewster said, if you're getting 16>[email protected]" then you'll need to tighten up the grind if you are aiming for 16>[email protected]". Stopping the shot at 32g with your current grind level will be at about 15" and will in all likelihood be a bit tart and thin rather than bitter.

Note it doesn't have to be 1:2 ratio, play around between 1:1.5 and 1:2.5 and you may be surprised where it tastes best (everyone is different in what they like and it depends on the beans too). Once you find what you like, keep a note of the beans, grind setting, and ratio/time so you know what to aim for (also useful if you go back to the same bean after trying something new).


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Robbbo,

Exactly as above.

Bin the shot glass as far as using it as a from of measure.

Trust the scales. It is pretty unlikely that any inaccuracy will be a big factor in honing in on a nominal starting ratio of 1:2


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## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

Thanks for the advice, Oh dear...I can see Im quickly turning into a coffee geek. Who would have thought just last week i was laughing at the the forum videos watching people with ridiculously expensive equipment timing and weighing a shot to a tenth of a gram, talking about coffee as if it were fine wine and then taking notes..and now thats exactly what i will be doing in the morning. Except my wife will no doubt be taking photos of me which will be posted on facebook for all to see what i have become


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Yeah don't sweat the decimal places! My cheap scales have a 0.1g resolution but I very much doubt they're accurate to within 0.5. And neither are my tastebuds - if I get 18.3>37.9 I'll be just as happy as with 18>36 on the nose - probably - and if not it might be down to distribution and tamp as much as brew ratio. As long as you like drinking it and can replicate what you like most of the time, it's all good.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Robbo said:


> Oh dear...I can see Im quickly turning into a coffee geek.... laughing at the the forum videos watching people with ridiculously expensive equipment timing and weighing a shot to a tenth of a gram, talking about coffee as if it were fine wine and then taking notes..and now thats exactly what i will be doing in the morning.


Welcome to the forum! And the capricious world of home espresso. I feel a proper spod sometimes when I step back and see myself with my workmates' eyes! But whether you call it an art, skill or science, it does require a fair amount of engagement to get good results. Then you get hooked and it's easy to spend a fortune and a lot of time trying to perfect it.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

hotmetal said:


> Welcome to the forum! And the capricious world of home espresso. I feel a proper spod sometimes when I step back and see myself with my workmates' eyes! But whether you call it an art, skill or science, it does require a fair amount of engagement to get good results. Then you get hooked and it's easy to spend a fortune and a lot of time trying to perfect it.


I think we were all normal once!


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

I resent that suggestion


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Keep ratio's consistent e.g stick to 16g in and 32g out and tighten or coarsen grind for longer/shorter extraction. just change one thing at a time so if you want more than 16g in, say 18g then keep other ratio's same.

Those ratio's are just examples, find out what you like and stick to your own.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Keep as many variables consistent as possible. Consistency is key.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

I resemble that suggestion


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## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

OK, I've tightened the grind and getting 32g in about 25 seconds. 32gs is not much is it? Doesn't look anywhere near like a double like you get in costa! Taste has improved though so all is good!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Robbo said:


> OK, I've tightened the grind and getting 32g in about 25 seconds. 32gs is not much is it? Doesn't look anywhere near like a double like you get in costa! Taste has improved though so all is good!


I think the rule of thumb for 98%ish of us is, if it's not like Costa then it's a good thing . You can try slightly longer and shorter amounts and see what you think tastes best though


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Guilty confession, I luuurrve the costa mugs..... I may have an illicitly procured one at home.... It's something about the chunky but rounded shape that is just so cuddly.

maybe I should start a "find missy a mug" thread!!!


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Don't use Costa as a goalpost. You can do a *lot* better! Avoid using 60ml as a goalpost too.

You can always get a bigger basket, I tend to dose 18-19g and get 36g out depending on the coffee.

If it tastes nice that's what matters.


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Missy said:


> Guilty confession, I luuurrve the costa mugs..... I may have an illicitly procured one at home.... It's something about the chunky but rounded shape that is just so cuddly.
> 
> maybe I should start a "find missy a mug" thread!!!


Or maybe Costa will start a 'find illicitly procured mugs' thread.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

GCGlasgow said:


> Or maybe Costa will start a 'find illicitly procured mugs' thread.


Will ll it involve Liam Neeson tracking the poor mug down?


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Missy said:


> Will ll it involve Liam Neeson tracking the poor mug down?


well he has tracked everything else down in recent movies


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

In that case I'd best look out for a better cup and destroy the evidence!


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## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

I think it makes all the difference if you have a nice chunky mug. I also like the Costa flat white ones and I've managed to 'procure' an almost identical one just plain white without the costa. love it!


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## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

Id just like to say that i seem to be getting consistently good results now that i have started weighing rather than measuring by volume. 17g in 35g out 22-25 seconds. Now tasting the best coffee I've ever had so thanks for the advice. I still need a decent 58mm tamper as I'm still using the crappy plastic one, so things can only get better!


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