# Sage DTP Dialling in help



## Uriel4953 (Dec 1, 2019)

Hi i'm completely new to this so could do with a bit of help

Sage DTP

Niche zero

18g of Cart Wheel Coffee Misspent youth. https://cartwheelcoffee.com/misspent-youth-v16.html

36g shot

Started off trying to grind at about 12 on niche but this just completely clogged my machine, had to dial it back to 28 to get a grind that does a 36g shot in about 35 seconds. But the coffee isn't great and i'm afraid my palette isn't good enough to tell if it's sour or bitter. Was wondering about maybe reducing the coffee down to 16 or 17 grams and still keeping the 1:2 ratio. Weighing the coffee and the shot although i haven't perfected the timing yet and sometimes the shot runs a gram over or under. The other thing is should i included the pre infusion in the time as being 8 seconds it obviuosly makes quite a difference. I know time isn't the best indicator, but i'm just trying to get somewhere near so i can build from that point.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

This vid should help you dial in. 1:2 is not a magic ratio. You may well find you prefer something longer (or shorter) for the bean you're using. Likewise, time (within reason) has the least effect overall on taste change & the pre-infusion will complicate things slightly. By all means take a note of the time but don't worry if it's a few seconds over or under. I've had great 20 second shots & equally great 50 second ones.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Times should always be quoted from when the brew button is pressed (so include any pre infusion time).


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

If you are new to fresh roasted beans they generally don't have the same taste as typical coffee shop coffee. The tasting notes also generally need a bit of imagination from the drinker.

I don't drink many milk based coffees but with that one I would expect to mainly notice chocolate like tastes. I generally drink americano and in that a less distinct chocolate taste and probably a sort of acidic after taste  don't read that as a bad one.

It's possible to use up a lot of beans tuning. Personally at least initially I fix time at 30secs and the quantity and then try ratios of around 2, 2.5 and 3. On very odd occasions the taste at 3 might suggest I should try a higher one so might finish up with say 5 but that's more likely on commercial beans rather than fresh roasted.

This all about obtaining a balanced flavour.The web has gone mad on coffee tasting recently so as usual all sorts of complexities have crept in on the subject. This page may help understand what that means, There has been better ones but they are well and truly buried now.

https://legacy.sweetmarias.com/library/coffee-flavor-terminology

Acidity is desirable - sourness isn't. It's important to understand this sort of aspect same with earthy. That doesn't mean that it will taste like a spoonful of garden soil.

To strong or too weak. The general answer is to change the the dose of grinds. Too little in a basket eventually results in a wet soggy puck. That alters extraction, usually badly.Too much is very likely to reduce extraction. Maybe the simplest answer is smaller or larger drinks or a change of basket size. Time can also be reduced or increased. Both tend to change taste. So say you had tunes to a ratio of 2.5 in 30sec. Leave things as they are and try 20, likely to weaker, and 40secs likely to be stronger. Additionally some people might tune for some ratio in 40sec even for one of 2. Personally I have stuck with 30sec as extending the time hasn't helped on the bean I usually drink.

John

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## Uriel4953 (Dec 1, 2019)

Thanks i think i might need to try intentionally over and under extracting some shots so i know what i'm not looking for. Are any of the barista courses worth the time/money or are most people just self taught ?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Uriel4953 said:


> Thanks i think i might need to try intentionally over and under extracting some shots so i know what i'm not looking for. Are any of the barista courses worth the time/money or are most people just self taught ?


 This isn't necessarily a good idea, at a short ratio you might not be able to over-extract.

Bitterness can occur at different extraction ranges, concentrate on taming the sourness.

If you start clogging the machine at 1:2 before you achieve this, think about brewing at a longer ratio as passing more water through the puck will help push on extraction. It sounds like the coffee might be too intense for you at 1:2 anyway, if you can't discern the flavour malfunctions. Try a 1:4 shot if you are drinking the shots neat.

Don't reduce the coffee dose, I stick to 18g pretty much.


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

A few things I've found with the DTP,

1 - i personally aim for a higher time than the quoted 20-30s. if you just run the machine without the portafilter, you will see that water doesnt start coming out until around 5-6 seconds, and if you listen in, the full brew pressure is applied around the 10s mark. Hence I normally add 8-10s to any recipe that comes with the beans, and work from there.

2 - have a look at this post, which talks about the temperature of DTP, I have yet to experiment with what's said there, but it would explain why I've personally have had much better quality espresso with darker roast than with lighter roasts.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/30052-duo-temp-pro-water-temperature/?do=embed



momchevk said:


> In case anyone is interested, I did few measurements on my Duo Temp Pro this evening. Not very thorough but quite indicative, I think.
> 
> I used a styrofoam cup, cut to the size of the shower head, and a fast digital thermometer - ran through the bottom part of the cup.
> 
> ...


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

TheHToad said:


> A few things I've found with the DTP,
> 
> 1 - i personally aim for a higher time than the quoted 20-30s. if you just run the machine without the portafilter, you will see that water doesnt start coming out until around 5-6 seconds, and if you listen in, the full brew pressure is applied around the 10s mark. Hence I normally add 8-10s to any recipe that comes with the beans, and work from there.
> 
> 2 - have a look at this post, which talks about the temperature of DTP, I have yet to experiment with what's said there, but it would explain why I've personally have had much better quality espresso with darker roast than with lighter roasts.


 I agree my portafilter starts running after give or take 10s thats with 16g coffee best taste so far is 34s plus 4s for the drips. Just got a timer scale today so looking forward to more precision in the future


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## Tonino (Mar 26, 2018)

My experience is slightly different here. I reduced the dose according to the beans blends. Some darker roasts or the one that have more robusta in than I like I do 15-16 gr and espresso tastes fine. For better beans or older ones 17-18 gr in dtp works really well for me. My last beans challenge: 16gr in 40gr out for around 30 seconds. Espresso is good ☕?


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