# Grouphead Gaskets giveaway



## steve_bkk

I am trying to ascertain the Silvia functionality of silicone gaskets that I developed for E61 groupheads (not specifically for Silvia though)

There is a main(primary) gasket and 0.5mm spacer gaskets should a greater thickness be helpful. Both are food grade silicone without added chemical coloring. As a semi-amateur inventor LOL I originally developed a gasket to end the issues related to rubber gaskets on my La Spaziale machine.

Am seeking 10 Silvia owners that are interested. All I ask is to provide feedback about functionality, be it good, bad, or mediocre. Opinions and suggestions also welcome. Pics and vids also welcome.

Please pm me is interested. I will accept the first 10.

Some additional info http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUsXcsPUVbSHkpiE-e5ey2g

Thank you.

Please make a list of those interested since I cannot check PM's until I have a few posts already.


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## moley

pm-ed

**************


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## Mrboots2u

steve_bkk said:


> I am trying to ascertain the Silvia functionality of silicone gaskets that I developed for E61 groupheads (not specifically for Silvia though)
> 
> There is a main(primary) gasket and 0.5mm spacer gaskets should a greater thickness be helpful. Both are food grade silicone without added chemical coloring. As a semi-amateur inventor LOL I originally developed a gasket to end the issues related to rubber gaskets on my La Spaziale machine.
> 
> Am seeking 10 Silvia owners that are interested. All I ask is to provide feedback about functionality, be it good, bad, or mediocre. Opinions and suggestions also welcome. Pics and vids also welcome.
> 
> Please pm me is interested. I will accept the first 10.
> 
> Some additional info http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUsXcsPUVbSHkpiE-e5ey2g
> 
> Thank you.


Hi and welcome small point - you only have one post on here so far

you will not be able to receive or reply to pas unless they are from moderators

I suggest you start a list on here until you have the appropriate amount of posts to contact members


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## steve_bkk

Hi and thanks. I just realized that too. The logic of Mr. Spock beat me to the point. I will follow your suggestion. Would it be ok for me to post an email?

Id do it in a way that would avoid spam. such as usinf "at" instead of @ etc etc.


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## Mrboots2u

steve_bkk said:


> Hi and thanks. I just realized that too. The logic of Mr. Spock beat me to the point. I will follow your suggestion. Would it be ok for me to post an email?
> 
> Id do it in a way that would avoid spam. such as usinf "at" instead of @ etc etc.


Up to you but guests as well as members etc could see it

Personally i wouldn't post my email address on a public internet forum.

Just start a list and get members to copy and paste their names ( they are used to doing this )

When you get to 10 then you or they can pm with details ....( which ever is easiests )

By the time the list get to 10 you'll have enough posts i suspect

Why not start a intro post and also tel us a little bit about yourself and what coffee you like etc and i hope you stay around and interact after you have enough people for your trial.. we are a helpful bunch in general


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## steve_bkk

Thanks for the helpful info and suggestions.

Is intro post here or on another thread?


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## steve_bkk

May I ask a dumb question? How does one start a list? I can build computers, repair them but I dont know how to start such a list on a forum.


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## Mrboots2u

add names if interested in the group gaskets

details to foliow via pm when kist hits 10

copy and paste your names below

1. Moley


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## Obnic

I have an E61 group but not a Silvia. Let me know if you test beyond Silvias I'd be interested.


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## jeebsy

You can receive pms and reply I think, you just can't initiate the conversation


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## steve_bkk

Obnic said:


> I have an E61 group but not a Silvia. Let me know if you test beyond Silvias I'd be interested.


Interesting question. Is your machine is an Expobar? When I first got the itch to see if silicone would work I gathered a cross sampling of E61 gaskets. The most common spec was chosen since it would fit the widest spectrum of machines. Coincidently one of the common denominator sizes was an original expobar gasket. Also coincidently the very first machine the silicone was installed on was a 2 group expobar. It seems all their machines use the same size gasket.


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## Charliej

Hi Steve,

I don't know whether it's of any help but my machine the Sage Dual Boiler uses a factory fitted silicone gasket and so far ( I've had it since last November) it's wearing very well indeed.


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## espressotechno

Silvia = Rancilio group seal; which is not E61 compatible.

The 0.5mm spacer is used on worn group heads.

There are some sizes/makes of group seal which are marketed as "long-life", which I suspect have a silicone content. But they are prone to scratching (= leaking) before they go hard.

I suspect that silicone seals will be too soft & therefore prone to damage from scratching / tearing...... However, good luck to your researches.


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## DavecUK

I just buy em in packs of 20 and you're covered for a good 15 years +. The forum should really organise a group buy of group gaskets.


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## steve_bkk

Charliej said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> I don't know whether it's of any help but my machine the Sage Dual Boiler uses a factory fitted silicone gasket and so far ( I've had it since last November) it's wearing very well indeed.


The "Sage" bears a striking resemblance to a Breville


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## steve_bkk

espressotechno said:


> Silvia = Rancilio group seal; which is not E61 compatible.
> 
> The 0.5mm spacer is used on worn group heads.
> 
> There are some sizes/makes of group seal which are marketed as "long-life", which I suspect have a silicone content. But they are prone to scratching (= leaking) before they go hard.
> 
> I suspect that silicone seals will be too soft & therefore prone to damage from scratching / tearing...... However, good luck to your researches.


Googling specs for Rancilio Silvia group gasket =



74 x 57 x 8mm My initial testing looked at various hardnesses of silicone. They are not all the typical soft silicone you see in bakeware for example.
​


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## steve_bkk

I suppose I could send you one to test. Let me know if you are still interested.


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## Charliej

steve_bkk said:


> The "Sage" bears a striking resemblance to a Breville


They are indeed one and the same although the UK was the 1st country to get the 920XL model.


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## Milanski

I like the idea of this. Count me in please.

1. Moley

2. Milanski


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## steve_bkk

Milanski said:


> I like the idea of this. Count me in please.
> 
> 1. Moley
> 
> 2. Milanski


Hi Milanski

Try to PM me your shipping info. Seems I cant pm til I reach 15 posts. Will send them on Monday


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## steve_bkk

To those that wanted the complimentary gaskets to test drive; in the post last Monday. Please let me know when they are received. The we can have some fun testing them.


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## Milanski

Received mine yesterday. Will install tomorrow.

Thanks.


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## steve_bkk

Might you be able to take some pics? I have used a mobile under the grouphead with reasonable lighting. Have also use a small camera without flash.

Before and after pics helpful.

A tiny bit of soybean oil has been know to help seat the gasket easily. Bevel side up. Silicone grabs quite well and creates a good seal but also can grab when you insert into grouphead. I use a q tip to apply a tiny amt to sides at bevel.

Check for desired portafilter lock position with only primary gasket first. You may add spacers if need be. Also keep in mind you may need to rotate more to lock with a new silicone gasket but after a few days use this may change. It feels kind of like a squeegee when locking portafilter. My day to day machine is a La Spaziale and uses a 53 mm silicone gasket so my observations are based upon it rather than the E61 which I dont have daily.

I believe the E61 should behave in a similar manner. The E61's are woking well on a few commercial multigroup machines (no Rancilios)


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## Milanski

Hi Steve,

Interestingly my Rancilio gasket was inserted bevel side down so I did the same as I didn't see your instructions beforehand.

Also, your gasket seemed thinner than the Rancilio one so I (rather bullishly) put all three spacers in before inserting the gasket. I think it's one or two too many as my pf handle locks way before it reaches 90 degrees.

I will take the gasket out tomorrow and remove a couple of the spacers and insert the gasket the correct way round. I also noticed your gasket was slightly larger in circumference than the space in the grouphead allowed (not sure if this is also the case with the Rancilio gasket, again, will try tomorrow) but it compressed well and gave a good seal. Here is the pic of it inserted:










I will update the above-mentioned points tomorrow (hopefully) but I did the blind basket test and also pulled an espresso and the gasket seemed to work absolutely fine both times.

Hope that helps.

Let me know what other photos you might like.


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## steve_bkk

Hi Milanski,

Cool.

I am happy to hear of your success. I have had some debates about the issue of :bevel side up" or down.

As it turned out feedback from espresso machine companies was for "bevel side up"

My reasoning;

#bevel helps insert the gasket into the grouphead channel

# bevel down could make it easier for water and grime to track upwards and possible interfere with gasket function and also deposit grime.

# non bevel side down creates a wider gasket contact surface

The elasticity and compressibility of silicone means slight size differences usually not a problem. Given a tiny bit of soybean oil helps nicely to seat the gasket the slightly bigger size is not a problem, and can actually help hold the shower basket in place in machines that dont have a screw to retain it. The gasket is the force that holds such shower baskets in place and and snug is definitely better.

Would love to see a vid of your results in backflush and pulling a shot. Pics with the shower screen back on? maybe some angled pics of gasket in grouphead?

Did you put your shower screen back on?

Thanks and kind regards,

Steve


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## Milanski

Yep, all those points about 'bevel side up' make sense. I'll do a quick switcheroo later tonight and try and take some vids also.

In the meantime here is a pic with the shower screen back on:


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## steve_bkk

Milanski,

I have to say your grouphead - shower screen are among the cleanest if not most clean I have ever seen. How old is your Silvia?


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## steve_bkk

You mentioned the rubber gasket your removed seemed a bit smaller than the new silicone gasket. It may also be more pronounced by the effect of heat on rubber. I am not sure but it seems rubber might shrink as it loses flexibility/elasticity. I'm temped to say as it loses oils - drys out but I really dont kow what the chemical reaction is precisely. A rubber engineer (worked for a tire company) said rubber is continually curing and heat accelerates curing.


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## Milanski

clean grouphead, clean mind (or something like that!).

My Silvia is something like 18months old. I've had it just over a year I think.

I run a paper towel over the screen and around the grouphead after every shot. Takes 20secs and avoids buildup









The original gasket doesn't crack when flexed but the heat has def had some effect on it, as you say it's probably curing nicely.

I've done 2 shots today and the silicone gasket is bedding in nicely. I'm not far off 90degrees now so will prob only remove one spacer when I flip the gasket.

I'll post up some vids when I get a mo...


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## Obnic

Really wanted this to work but this size didn't do so well in the Vesuvius.

I tried it first with one spacer to get the PF to lock at around 6 o'clock. Then, when this leaked, I tried it without a spacer. (This actually worked with my naked PF which has thicker lugs than the standard V PFs.) it leaked again.

I think the issue is the Vesuvius shower screen rather than fit with the E61 head. My sense is that the seal between shower screen and gasket is not tight enough, as a result, water can get between the side of the screen and the gasket and so over the gasket and out of the grouphead. (Do remember that static pressure on the V can be very high.)

I wonder if it's possible to make the gasket slightly wider and the silicon rubber a slightly firmer compound? And for the Vesuvius I think slightly deeper would mean you could avoid using a spacer.

Thank you for letting me try this gasket. I will now use it on my Brewtus if that's ok.


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## majnu

Gaggia classic is e61 I believe, I just fitted a replacement on my classic today but would love to compare the two if the offer to test one still stands. Cheers


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## Milanski

I have to remember to post up a couple of vids as requested, but so far I'm very happy with this gasket on my Silvia.

It is slightly softer than the stock rubber Rancilio gasket (which leaked slightly with my IMS basket). It therefore feels like it makes a better seal with the portafilter and I don't have to strain to tighten the pf into the grouphead. A quick spin round to 90 degrees and the seal is good for the shot and also for backflushing.

I don't know how long the seal will last, or how quickly it will wear (I have a spare gasket if need be) but if it's supposed to be longer-lasting than a rubber gasket then I think this will work out to be the superior part. For now, it comes highly recommended!


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## steve_bkk

Obnic said:


> Really wanted this to work but this size didn't do so well in the Vesuvius.
> 
> I tried it first with one spacer to get the PF to lock at around 6 o'clock. Then, when this leaked, I tried it without a spacer. (This actually worked with my naked PF which has thicker lugs than the standard V PFs.) it leaked again.
> 
> I think the issue is the Vesuvius shower screen rather than fit with the E61 head. My sense is that the seal between shower screen and gasket is not tight enough, as a result, water can get between the side of the screen and the gasket and so over the gasket and out of the grouphead. (Do remember that static pressure on the V can be very high.)
> 
> I wonder if it's possible to make the gasket slightly wider and the silicon rubber a slightly firmer compound? And for the Vesuvius I think slightly deeper would mean you could avoid using a spacer.
> 
> Thank you for letting me try this gasket. I will now use it on my Brewtus if that's ok.


Thanks for your detailed post, very helpful and interesting.

PM me about a firmer gasket (i already have a few) and more in the works

Sure, try it on your Brewtus.

Regards

Steve


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## steve_bkk

steve_bkk said:


> Thanks for your detailed post, very helpful and interesting.
> 
> PM me about a firmer gasket (i already have a few) and more in the works
> 
> Sure, try it on your Brewtus.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve


In the pics of your Vesuvius gasket under my silicone gasket it seemed the inside diameter of the V is smaller. this reminds me of the La Marzoco gasket size. Have a look at this video http://tinypic.com/r/acikn/8 We have "great success" to quote Borat, with the silicone gasket in La Marzoco GS3 which I believe is the same for most LM machines. Might this smaller silicone gasket work on your Vesuvius?


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## moley

I've been using this gasket for a while now. It's great.

No spurts, or dribbles. The portafilter now locks perpendicular to the machine - before it was locking way past this point.

Thanks very much!


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## steve_bkk

moley said:


> I've been using this gasket for a while now. It's great.
> 
> No spurts, or dribbles. The portafilter now locks perpendicular to the machine - before it was locking way past this point.
> 
> Thanks very much!


I am very pleased to hear that.

Thank you


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## Ian S

Is this offer still going? If so, can I please have one to try out? Are there different hardnesses now? I've spent the last couple of days scouring the on-line shops to find a replacement seal for the Silvia. There seems to be very little support for this machine in the UK. Very wide price variation for a rubber seal. A variety of sizes if any size mentioned. I thought it would be a 5 minute job to find and buy one. I watched an video when he suggested to get a better grade of seal but getting one at all that I could be confident in has been a problem. Google found this thread and I here I am.







Thanks.


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## Ian S

Milanski said:


> ..


What shower screen is that? Apart from the non-protruding screw, is it better than the original (more even water distribution?) or just different (with less holes?)? Thanks.


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## Ian S

Ian S said:


> What shower screen is that?


I found it.

I plan to gt the 35um mesh to see if it keeps the grinds from going back up into the machine.


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## Ian S

Ian S said:


> Is this offer still going?


I bought two from Steves eBay add.


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## bronc

I'm considering ordering one of those gaskets for my Silvia. Are yours still holding up nicely?

@Ian, where did you find that shower screen?


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## Ian S

Google found: http://www.espressoservices.co.uk/ims_rancilio_shower_plate.html#IMS%20RA%2035%20WM Google also found this place abroad: http://coffeeinaplace.com/menu/about-ims/ims-filter-showers/ims-e61-competition-shower-screen-for-e61-group/


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## Ian S

I only fitted my Silicone Gasket from Steve in this thread a few days ago. I also bought the green Cafelat Silvia silicone gasket as it seemed from its dimensions that it might be a better fit but actually they both 'dropped' in easily with no resistance. However they don't come out the same. The cafelat one tore in half as I lifted it out. It's rather brittle and quite a lot harder than the 'Steve' one. It's seems to be the correct thickness whereas I had to fit all three of the spacers Steve supplied to get the handle to about 90°. But Steve's one works whereas the Cafelat would not hold back the spray, it more than leaked, 10 Bar spray goes some way! No matter how hard I pulled the handle around it was the same. Unusable. The Silvia was dragging around the bench with the force I was applying! I squeezed it on extra hard using one hand on the opposite side of the Silvia, as I had been with the old leaking knackered rubber seal I'd just removed, but harder, and the Cafelat was leaking was far worse. So a few minutes after fitting it I had to remove and I tore it apart, much to my surprise. Maybe if I'd removed the shower screen and the metal plates under that, there may have been 0.2mm or so more room and it may have teased out intact, I don't know. But Steves one just lifted out undamaged and is now the one back in there doing the job. I feel I still do have to turn it overly hard though compared to my older and much less expensive Delongi and LaPavoni coffee machines which, after maybe 20 and 12 years, still have the original seals and don't leak at all and require no effort. After the Cafelat seal fiasco I did soak some Cafiza into the seal rebate and spent some while rinsing out, but it think it made very little difference beyond the caked on stuff I'd already scraped off prior to fitting the Cafelat. To compare, I will probably try an original rubber one if I can get one somewhere for a not exploitative price. The one I removed was original Rancilio and had the double R imprinted into the rear and a raised capital A. Sorry about the lack of carriage returns in this post; this site ignores them from this PC!


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## bronc

Thanks! I guess I'll be ordering a standard rubber one from a local supplier.


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## Ian S

Here are all the measurements I took. With an electronic digital calliper. Good luck with just getting a local one that the right size and firmness. They all seem different! It might be that the Silicone ones will never be affected by the heat or maybe the pressure, which the rubber ones will. And do the rubber ones give off substances as they age?

Rebate for the seal in the brass group; 74mm x 57.9mm = 8mm gap (by my measurement).

"Silvia takes standard Rancilio commercial group gasket: The dimensions for both machine families are the same: 74mm x 58mm x 8mm", someone posted.

I found:

Rancilio OEM Part No. 36301034

RR OEM logo stamped on gasket 72 x 57 x 8.2mm.

Firm group head gasket for Rancilio commercial machines.

4 grooves in side wall for easier removal and replacemet.

Gasket I took off (15Nov2014) = 7.4mm thick mostly, the basket side was squashed out to 8.0mm, x 8.4 height. The Rancilio double R was emprinted into the rear and there was a raised capital A.

Steves Silicone seal: Stated size: OD = 74mm, ID = 57mm, 8mm height (but (74mm - 57mm) ÷ 2 = 8.5mm).

My measured: OD = 73.2mm, ID = 57.0mm. 8.5 wide x 7.3 height. (I've errorred here as 73.2 equates to 8.1mm & I recall noticing this and straightening it (type?) out but must have lost the edit & now have forgotten and the seal is in the machine. 8.5 equates to 74) The spacers are 0.6mm thick so 7.3mm + (3 x 0.6mm) = 9.1mm thick.

Silicone seal from Cafelat in China: Stated size:

My measured: OD = 74.0, ID = 58.1. 8.0 wide x 8.4 height; both by careful measurement at four points 90° around.

Coffeehit's rubber gasket: Rancilio group seal for Rancilio machines. 72mm x 54mm x 8mm. 72 x 54 is no-where near the actual size of the rebate, 54mm is 4mm too small to fit over the centre metal. 72 is 2mm too small to will be lose around the outside. But someone I think on this site stated "they do fit".


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## espressotechno

Seals for commercial Rancilios are available in 8.0 & 8.3mm thicknesses. Any extra depth required - use card (0.3mm) or rubber (0.5mm) shims.

On commercial machines, group seals last approx. 10-12 months. The heat & pressure then turns them into "concrete" when they crack & leak.


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## Ian S

Will card not just moisten with the hot 10Bar water and eventually leak? Is the seal not just with the basket to the rubber, but also the rubber to the brass top of the group head?? Are the seals you mention all 8mm wide but with a choice of heights? According to PID Silvia there are two hardnesses of Rancilio seal.


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## steve_bkk

Ian S said:


> I only fitted my Silicone Gasket from Steve in this thread a few days ago. I also bought the green Cafelat Silvia silicone gasket as it seemed from its dimensions that it might be a better fit but actually they both 'dropped' in easily with no resistance. However they don't come out the same. The cafelat one tore in half as I lifted it out. It's rather brittle and quite a lot harder than the 'Steve' one. It's seems to be the correct thickness whereas I had to fit all three of the spacers Steve supplied to get the handle to about 90°. But Steve's one works whereas the Cafelat would not hold back the spray, it more than leaked, 10 Bar spray goes some way! No matter how hard I pulled the handle around it was the same. Unusable. The Silvia was dragging around the bench with the force I was applying! I squeezed it on extra hard using one hand on the opposite side of the Silvia, as I had been with the old leaking knackered rubber seal I'd just removed, but harder, and the Cafelat was leaking was far worse. So a few minutes after fitting it I had to remove and I tore it apart, much to my surprise. Maybe if I'd removed the shower screen and the metal plates under that, there may have been 0.2mm or so more room and it may have teased out intact, I don't know. But Steves one just lifted out undamaged and is now the one back in there doing the job. I feel I still do have to turn it overly hard though compared to my older and much less expensive Delongi and LaPavoni coffee machines which, after maybe 20 and 12 years, still have the original seals and don't leak at all and require no effort. After the Cafelat seal fiasco I did soak some Cafiza into the seal rebate and spent some while rinsing out, but it think it made very little difference beyond the caked on stuff I'd already scraped off prior to fitting the Cafelat. To compare, I will probably try an original rubber one if I can get one somewhere for a not exploitative price. The one I removed was original Rancilio and had the double R imprinted into the rear and a raised capital A. Sorry about the lack of carriage returns in this post; this site ignores them from this PC!


Thanks for your interesting analysis and post. Others with Silvia report they are happy with 2 silicone spacers as 3 did not allow it to 90 degrees. Maybe your portafilter ears and or group is worn? bent? They also report no leaking whatsoever (moley)

Recently I played with a brand new Rancilio Epoca 2 group. PF would only go about 60 degrees whereas on youtube have seen Rancilios beyond 90 degrees.

I assume you thoroughly cleaned the contact surface where gasket seats? Perhaps give it some "breaking in time" Are there irregularities on the coffee basket lip that might interfere with the seal? Gasket bevel side up?

My research and testing of silicone shows that duplicating the same hardness as rubber does not necessarily produce the best seal/gasket by far.

It also seems there is variation among rubber gasket size and also reported leaking/squirting with rubber also.

Thus far I have never had a gasket tear during installation or removal and I have extensive experience on multiple brand home and commercial machines. I suppose if a pre-existent cut were present it could extend upon pressure? Silicone normally should not become brittle or at least not for a very long time, if ever.

You are very lucky to have intact 12 and 20 year old rubber seals. After 10 years of storage my Olympia Cremina seals were shot.


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## steve_bkk

Ian S said:


> Here are all the measurements I took. With an electronic digital calliper. Good luck with just getting a local one that the right size and firmness. They all seem different! It might be that the Silicone ones will never be affected by the heat or maybe the pressure, which the rubber ones will. And do the rubber ones give off substances as they age? Rebate for the seal in the brass group; 74mm x 57.9mm = 8mm gap (by my measurement). "Silvia takes standard Rancilio commercial group gasket: The dimensions for both machine families are the same: 74mm x 58mm x 8mm." Rancilio OEM Part No. 36301034 RR OEM logo stamped on gasket 72 x 57 x 8.2mm Firm group head gasket for Rancilio commercial machines 4 grooves in side wall for easier removal and replacemet. Gasket I took off = 7.4mm thick mostly, the basket side was squashed out to 8.0, x 8.4 height (15Nov204) was marked with the Rancilio R on the rear and a capital A. Steves Silicone seal: Stated size: OD = 74mm, ID = 57mm, 8mm height (but (74mm - 57mm) ÷ 2 = 8.5mm). My measured: OD = 73.2, ID = 57.0. 8.5 wide x 7.3 height. The spacers are 0.6mm thick so 7.3mm + (3 x 0.6mm) = 9.1mm thick. Silicone seal from Cafelat in China: Stated size: My measured: OD = 74.0, ID = 58.1. 8.0 wide x 8.4 height; both by careful measurement at four points 90° around. Coffeehit's rubber gasket: Rancilio group seal for Rancilio machines. 72mm x 54mm x 8mm. 72 x 54 is no-where near the actual size of the rebate, 54mm is 4mm too small to fit over the centre metal. 72 is 2mm too small to will be lose around the outside. But someone I thik on this site stated "they do fit".


Cool stuff. I have the old fashioned calipers, not electronic.

I chatted with a rubber engineer and was told rubber is in a perpetual state of curing. I'd imagine something is emitted but I dont know what and it doesn't seem it would effect the coffee. I wonder if rubber shrinks from heat? We know it gets hard and brittle.

The gasket I developed is based on what seemed to be the most common specification. This along with the silicone spacers would allow for adaptation in more machines. The inner diameter ID can expand if need be to fit the round grouphead center. Thus far I have had one case of needing to sand a little off the OD outer edge to fit in a vintage Brasilia. Just a few minutes of modification for a long lasting gasket.


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## espressotechno

IanS:

The card shim doesn't get wet - the rubber seal is usually a tight push-fit, so keeps any water out. Old card shims are hard & break up on removal.

If a new seal is a loose fit, I chuck it out and try a tighter one !

The 8.0mm etc refers to the thickness, not the diameter, of the seal. All the Rancilio seals are 74 x 58mm in diameter


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## Ian S

So that means the inner side of the gasket is pressing on the metal and preventing water pressing up and onto the card ring?


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## Milanski

...just to let you know my gasket from Steve is still going strong!

I feel like the slightly softer texture 'moulds' round the top of the pf/basket a little, creating a better seal than the solid rubber stock seals (which only get harder with time).

Thanks again Steve!


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## Ian S

steve_bkk said:


> ...Silvia report they are happy with 2 silicone spacers as 3 did not allow it to 90 degrees. Maybe your portafilter ears and or group is worn? bent?


I think there is some small wear on the ears, can't tell with the group.



steve_bkk said:


> PF would only go about 60 degrees whereas on youtube have seen Rancilios beyond 90 degrees.


I get leakage with much less than about 81° with the back flush basket in the Rancilio bottomless PF. I think it's similar with the VST 7gram but the two feel a little different in resistance.

My judgement of the correctness of how hard I have to turn the handle is disadvantaged by not having any other E61 to compare with. My other two machines have smaller basket diameter, so there's less angular resistance just from that.



steve_bkk said:


> Are there irregularities on the coffee basket lip that might interfere with the seal?


There does appear to be some error with the rim face eveness as variation in light is visible as I rotate the baskets against a flat surface; this may be within normal tolerance? There are no dents, etc.


steve_bkk said:


> Gasket bevel side up?


Yes. I had noted that from the previous page of this thread









steve_bkk said:


> I assume you thoroughly cleaned the contact surface where gasket seats? Perhaps give it some "breaking in time"


I dug out all I could of the solid build up before trying the Cafelat seal. After that I used Cafiza and kitchen roll and lot of rincing but to little further effect.


steve_bkk said:


> My research and testing of silicone shows that duplicating the same hardness as rubber does not necessarily produce the best seal/gasket by far.Thus far I have never had a gasket tear during installation or removal and I have extensive experience on multiple brand home and commercial machines. I suppose if a pre-existent cut were present it could extend upon pressure? Silicone normally should not become brittle or at least not for a very long time, if ever.


The cafelat is quite a bit firmer than your's and less flexible and coloured green, so a different form of silicone or a compound. And evidently doesn't flex much before falling apart.


steve_bkk said:


> You are very lucky to have intact 12 and 20 year old rubber seals. After 10 years of storage my Olympia Cremina seals were shot.


Perhaps it's usage related as the DeLongi was used once a day for some years then I got a LaPavoni lever machine as used that for a year or two, then sold that for a used LaPavoni pumped machine, then stopped having coffee for a few years. They still seal, so age alone seems to have not damaged the seals.

This is my 4th day of using Steves seal and I think I'm adjusting to the change and getting a feel for it. I've made about 12 espressos and I can easily tighten the handle to the right place with out leakage. Undoing seems easier. It looks clean and I like that I can easily see if there's coffee grinds, etc, on it. Thanks Steve.


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## espressotechno

I've never come across damp/soggy/wet card shims. Methinks the pressure from the PF on a snug fitting seal just makes the whole assembly watertight.....


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## steve_bkk

Hi Ian,

The feel of silicone is not the same as rubber even using the same hardness of silicone as the properties differ somewhat. Silicone has a softer touch and should not require that same "jam in to lock" You will get used to it quickly.

You can use a blind basket to get the feel of where it seals rather than sacrificing coffee. The softer lock position should also mean less wear and tear on the metal components thus avoiding(hopefully) the need for progressively thicker gaskets.

Reported issues with silicone gaskets are usually about the lock position and some baristas trying to get the same feel as rubber. Some rotate the portafilter way too far thinking they need to feel the "wont go anymore" point.

Usually this results from inadequate teaching of baristas not present when the silicone was installed.

Silicone Pros;

good seal with less force will hopefully prevent / lessen metal wear and tear and the need for progressively thicker gaskets

lasts longer

should not become hard and brittle

elasticity and compression properties help it to fit where rubber might not

can be easily modified (sanded) to fit custom applications

Silicon Cons;

some report difficulty in getting used to feel of silicone (I am aware of just 2 reported cases of this) one is on this thread and the other is from a La Marzocco GS3 owner. The GS3 owner had to unlearn rubber and now is happy.

I have used my gasket on my own La Spaziale for quite a while.

I am exploring some different approaches to what has long been considered the "standard gasket"


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## steve_bkk

espressotechno said:


> I've never come across damp/soggy/wet card shims. Methinks the pressure from the PF on a snug fitting seal just makes the whole assembly watertight.....


I've played around with shims cut from cereal boxes and from gasket paper. The shims seem to work. I have noted wet shims when I pulled a gasket to replace with silicone shims. The silicone gasket was snug fitting in this case (2 group Expobar) I wonder if it could be steam / hot water condensate related as it was a heat exchange machine.


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## bronc

Where can I order Steve's gasket? I've had no luck with Cafelat's silicone one - it leaks everywhere!


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## steve_bkk

bronc said:


> Where can I order Steve's gasket? I've had no luck with Cafelat's silicone one - it leaks everywhere!


Hi Bronc,

I'd be happy to send you a gasket. For which espresso machine?

They are 7.49 USD and I pay standard airmail shipping. They are guaranteed for 2 years. If it breaks, hardens, tears, I send you a new one. You can leave the coffee machine on 24 hours a day and pull shots around the clock if you like.

I can accept paypal.

Email me [email protected]

Thank you


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