# New Classic, temperature problem?



## Sanemancured (Apr 22, 2013)

Hiya

My new Gaggia Classic arrived two days ago but due to work I've not been able to check it out.

With many thanks to Glenn for his excellent article I have just run a check of the brew temperature. I drew several 2 ounce shots through the portafilter into a paper cup with a meat thermometer skewered into the bottom.

The 1st shot was 82 degrees Centigrade and then it dropped down to around 76 to 78. A 3 ounce shot came out at 80.

I'm waiting for a call back from the seller (Hart of Stur) but I wanted to check I'm doing it correctly before requesting a new machine or a way ahead.

Sould I have the portafilter in place or just use the shower head?

Edited to add, I've just tried the paper cup (I couldn't get polystyrene) right up to the head and I got 91 degrees C.

Peter


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## Sanemancured (Apr 22, 2013)

Very good customer service from Hart of Stur in Dorset.

I'm new to the finer aspects of coffee. They said that they thought the temp was too low as it should be higher post portafilter. They are delivering a replacement on Monday and will collect the old one.

I made two double shots with freshly ground Farrer's Expresso bean mix. The 1st one through my MDF set to 5 and tamped fairly firmly with the plastic tamp took about 3 to 4 seconds! It tasted bad. Sour? I drank it anyway.

I took the Gaggia MDF down to 3 and tamped a bit firmer and it took about 20 seconds. The taste? Incredibly different. Really nice. The creme both times was good with the pressurised basket.

My head is spinning. Lovely! I'm going to like this aren't I, fresh ground beans and a decent brew


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Replace the pressurised basket with a normal gaggia double basket.


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## Sanemancured (Apr 22, 2013)

That job is in hand as is a decent tamp.


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## Sanemancured (Apr 22, 2013)

An update. My new machine arrived on time and I am very pleased with Hart's customer service. I checked the temperature at the head and it's even lower than my 1st Classic. As the thermostat is in the boiler casing and not the water itself I'm finding that surfing on the brew switch does nothing but lower the brew temperature even further as cold water is pulled into the boiler. The best temp is after a long settle in period and that is about 87 degrees max.

I haven't used the steam switch to boost temps as I really don't want to get into that degree of fiddling. I've ordered a new 107 degree thermostat and I'll see what that gives me.

I serviced my Gaggia MDF and recalibrated it and I'm getting a good grind with near perfect timing most of the time









I have a decent tamp and a non pressurised basket.

Meanwhile sour coffee sucks


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

I have experienced low temperatures with a Classic.

The best solution is to fit a PID control - if you can be bothered and you can afford it. They are far from perfect but they go a long way to stabilise and adjust temperature.


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

RoloD said:


> I have experienced low temperatures with a Classic.
> 
> The best solution is to fit a PID control - if you can be bothered and you can afford it. They are far from perfect but they go a long way to stabilise and adjust temperature.


How do they work?


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## Sanemancured (Apr 22, 2013)

A PID is a way ahead (they replace the Thermostat with a much more sensitive, finer and more accurately regulated control) but the price is too much at the moment.

I'll see what the 107 degree thermostat gives me. I don't know which thermostat is fitted at standard, 100 or 107?


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## jonners (Apr 26, 2013)

A paper cup will immediately lose heat, plus the cup and the thermometer themselves have to be heated up, so I would expect this method to give low readings which are not very reliable.


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## Sanemancured (Apr 22, 2013)

jonners said:


> A paper cup will immediately lose heat, plus the cup and the thermometer themselves have to be heated up, so I would expect this method to give low readings which are not very reliable.


Absolutely. It's only of use with this in mind and measurement needs to be consistent. I'm now using a polystyrene cup held right up the the head. The sour coffee is the real indicator that things aren't right.

I'll run a comparison with the new thermostat output and compare taste.

I'm presently not enjoying coffee as much as I was with my £40 De Longi. I do like strong Americano so perhaps I have a preference for a bitter taste anyway?

Peter


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

A temp in the high 80s is expected after passing through the Portafilter and puck.

Should be above 92 really for the classic straight out of the grouphead.


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

How are you getting on with this?

I have recently adjusted the OPV, which I find helps. I am pulling nice looking 25 second doubles, great crema. I have tried all the beans in the has bean espresso starter pack.

Im still finding my shots sour to some degree. Taste ok in latte/Americano/etc but completely undrinkable as espresso.

Thing is, I'm not completely sure if the taste is wrong or its just me? I think sometimes im confusing bitter with sour. Do has bean beans have a bit of a sour taste?

Now I'm starting to think my classic might be too cold. I'm pretty confused now, don't to know what to do next. I was drinking French press at work all weekend, using Tesco coffee. It was horrible and silty, but it tasted better than most drinks my classic has made. Everything seems right in the process, with quality fresh beans, but it just tastes all wrong. Plus the different has bean beans taste the same. On the verge of giving up and going back to brew. If I knew the temp was the issue (can't get a reliable reading), I would try that, But I don't have any more time or money.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Is a classic like a silvia. If it is, i used to bring the thermostat up to its highest temperature then flash the steam off for a few seconds which worked every time. If your shots are sour the brew water sounds like its to cold


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

Actually, scratch that.

I randomly found a styrofoam cup and tried a temp reading again. This time I left the classic on for 30 mins with the PF in. I took off the PF and quickly raised the foam cup to the group and pulled 2.5oz. This time I got a reading of 94C, which I assume is ok? (Only ever managed 87C with paper cup).

So many the temp is ok. Back to the drawing board...


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## Sanemancured (Apr 22, 2013)

I wasn't sure that I would know what sour tasted like until I tasted it. No mistaking it.

If I were getting 94 I'd be happy. The new Classic is giving me 87 at the head decreasing with each new shot to low 80s. I'm awaiting a new thermostat to try. Using the steam switch for 5 seconds seems to help although I haven't tested it. I will.


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## talktotheduck (Feb 26, 2013)

Why not see if someone nearby can help with a tasting, perhaps your looking for something that isn't going to be there. In terms of Has Beans I've found them pretty out there in terms of Flavour but I'm new to all this and figure I'll develop a taste for something different (acid) once I get my craft down. Why not try some of the espresso blends from some other roasters to see if you can find what your looking for. I found the dark italian roast weren't much better than the Asda beans, but some of the blends from the real coffee company suit me fine. In terms of temperature, the thermostat on the Gaggia will read the temperature at the stat and will be fairly accurate in terms of it's "up to temperature" reading....But...it had half an hour to get there and only seconds to react and bring on the boiler to reheat the once you start running water. the position of the thermostat may mean that there are pockets of cooler water in the boiler that are not being heated. Heat rises and waters not a great conductor of heat so there may be cooler water lying in a pocket below the level of the water in the boiler that's up to temperature (hence the 30 min recommended heat up time) I often find that the water's too hot if it's been left on for much longer than 30 mins as steam appears and drives a hole through your well tamped grounds, I now draw some water off to heat a cup, let the thermostat come on and off then give the whole unit a gentle shake to see if the water in the boiler mixes and brings the stat on again. Adds 20 seconds to a cup but saves a clean up and another grind! Whilst the PID kit may bring on the heating element quicker in a call for heat situation it will still only heat the water in the position of the stat to the desired temperature.


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## Sanemancured (Apr 22, 2013)

I did some work measuring temperatures in a consistent way yesterday, with the old and new thermostats. I pre-warmed the poly cup and probe with kettle water.

The vital thing to realise is that the thermostat measures boiler casing temperature not water temperature. I left the boiler on for 30 minutes each time before measuring temperatures at the group.

The old thermostat measured 92 and then fell progressively with each 3 second shot as the cold water flushed into the boiler. Only waiting and allowing the boiler to cycle many times restored temperature. This is obvious but for those that flush hot through and wait for the brew light to come back on this WILL lower your temperature not raise it.

The new thermostat brought the initial temperature up to 95 so it remains.

I did experiment with using the steam switch for both 5 and 10 second intervals and it made no appreciable difference to temperature in those timescales.

I've just enjoyed a perfect expresso. As good as I've ever experienced. Very happy now.

.


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