# Sage Oracle - Newbie Help



## sweeny1975 (Feb 9, 2021)

Hi, I received a Sage the Oracle machine as a gift at Christmas - and I'm struggling to get consistently good coffee from it.

From what I've read, using the double basket, I should be aiming for approx 50ml to 65ml of coffee in 30secs of total extraction time --- and the only variable that I should need to change to get to this, is the grind size.

I'm having two main problems:

1. using the exact same beans, on the same grind - i do not get the same amount of coffee out. Yesterday example at grind 25, 60g of coffee was extracted at the default 30secs, but today (using same beans) I only got 35g.

2. At other times, even when I do get the optimum 50g-65g of coffee, it's very thin an watery.

Again, to be clear I am using the default settings for everything (temp, pre-extraction, etc etc)

Does anyone have any tips or suggestions as to what's going on? I contacted Sage support 4 weeks ago (because the machine was making a horrible noise that has since stopped) and they have offered me a new machine...so maybe the issues I'm having could be related to a mechanical problem ?

Thanks in advance,


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

sweeny1975 said:


> Hi, I received a Sage the Oracle machine as a gift at Christmas - and I'm struggling to get consistently good coffee from it.
> 
> From what I've read, using the double basket, I should be aiming for approx 50ml to 65ml of coffee in 30secs of total extraction time --- and the only variable that I should need to change to get to this, is the grind size.
> 
> ...


 Morning!

I have a Dual Boiler, so exactly like your Oracle but without the built-in brains. Coincidentally this is something my wife says to me a lot too.

But back to your question - I would strongly advise you to buy a small scale accurate to 0.1g so you are able to weigh the grind output and the amount of coffee you are getting in your cup. Volume is a very poor estimate of espresso weight due to the variable amount of crema. By weighing your dose and amount of espresso in your cup, you will be better able to adjust the grind to get a better extraction ratio.

50-65ml seems a little long to me, I would suggest starting with a 1:1.8 to 1:2 ratio initially. So that's 18g of coffee from your grinder to make 32-36g of espresso in your cup.

I would say the 35g you got is likely to be the amount I would aim for. I'm not sure why you have so much variation from your grinder, but would suggest weighing the weight of ground coffee you are getting initially to check that this is consistent, and report back!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Beans can do all sorts of things if they are not fresh. Personally with posts like this I think people should include a link to what they are using.

When people have bought a new Oracle and have problems it can be a good idea to phone Sage who will send an engineer to sort things out. They can have faults just like any machine. One thing I have noticed though is a few people who switch to an Oracle from other machines and don't have problems.

There are some basics.

Grinders can take a couple of shots to settle down. They may never do if some one is for ever cleaning them and changing beans.

Large setting changes can be bad news making the settling worse. A feature of Sage grinders going coarser is a bit of play so go too coarse and then finer. Something that people may not even notice but the effect is there even though it's rather small. Sage isn't the only one either.

When the setting is changed waste some grinds. That is usually a small effect on Sage grinders but it needn't be. This is also likely to take out the going coarser effect. Needing to waste some is a feature of all grinders with a hopper on.

Expect to make small changes periodically that may get less frequent or are due to beans ageing. New burrs need to run in and Sage appears to be no different in that respect. That can result in a need to set finer over time.

Ratio and time. Time probably best stick to ~30 secs as changing that adds more variables. Something to try when all is ok both shorter or longer. 40 secs is used by some for instance and cutting to 20 secs could be used even with a very low ratio. Ratio is more difficult. I'd suggest trying 3 as a starter. 2, 2.5 and 3. They needn't be precise but taste them and see what happens to the taste. Circa those numbers with one in roughly in the middle will do. Sipping espresso shots isn't for everybody  I drink americano so not a problem for me. Milk based drinks in some ways are trickier. Milk masks some aspects of bean taste.

I tried some commercial beans once out of curiosity. They were intended for use in an espresso machine. It didn't surprise me that they needed a ratio of ~5. Another was much more like fresh roasted. Both were pure arabica blends. If some one tried CostaBucks beans that they usually use they might find they favour a rather short ratio, output, time or both.

Too strong a drink needs a smaller filter basket. Bit of a problem on Sage. I use a 12g Fracino basket. It holds ~14g on Sage. It's ridged though which is a bit of a strain on the wire clips in the portafilter. The single it comes with may work on an Oracle.

Using volume. Mixed feeling. From another machine of theirs I would say it can work pretty well but may not.


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