# First post - looking for some advice.



## RooniusMaximus (Jan 30, 2019)

Hi there,

Came across this forum after a Google search and wondered if you could help with my request.

We currently have a Tassimo Pod system which is OK for Americanos, but doesn't really produce anything else great IMHO.

That, combined with the fact that I want to move away from a pod-based system and stop using so much plastic, means I'm looking for an upgrade.

While on holiday recently we stayed in two different houses. The first had a DeLonghi Bean to Cup machine which was pretty decent. Similar to the De'Longhi Magnifica ESAM 4200 but maybe an older model.

Then the second house had another DeLonghi machine which looked to be a rebranded Sage machine I'd been thinking about before we went away. Looked identical to the Sage Barista Express but without the hopper on top.

All well and good.

So on our return we decided to make the investment and get the Sage machine. But the problem is that our kitchen units aren't high enough. They're tall cabinets, but are fitted low so we only have about 33cm of clearance for anything to sit under. And there's no bench surface which is clear of cupboards above it.

It looked like the Sage machine might fit without the hopper on top, but it would be very close.

So we ended up not getting it. The other DeLonghi machine is also too tall at 36cm.

I also suddenly thought when we were in there that I normally have a decaff coffee in the evening so having loads of beans in the hopper would make it difficult to switch to decaff.

We really wanted an all-in-one solution, but I think the solution might be a separate grinder and machine. Just wanted to check to see which combos would work.

FWIW, we were prepared to spend the £470 for the Sage all-in-one machine, but that's the top limit of what we can afford to spend really.

I'd be grateful for any pointers as it's way out my area of expertise...

Thanks in advance.


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## All_a_Mort (Jan 28, 2019)

Faced with a similar situation (though with a few CMs to spare) I thought I'd reply to make (also) my first post.

The low cupboard issue we both have is massively restricting. In my case it's 41cm max. Like you, that rules out the Sage Bean-to-Cup models as it would be a tight fit with the hopper and then really hard to remove it to load. Another issue you and I will have is the water tank. On some machines like the Sage ones, the tank sits right at the back outside the machine on a little sort of plinth and can therefore be removed reasonably easily, even with the shortage of space available. Other machines though have the tank inside the machine which would mean moving the whole thing to refill. More expensive machines can be plumbed in of course, so no tank.

The shortest machine I can think of is Sage's Bambino, which according to Sage is 31cm in height. But of course that would need a grinder which is about as much of a problem. I can only think of the Mignon which is about 35cm high (too high for you), the Sage ones also about 35-36cm (too high) or the Niche which is 31cm I think, but over your stated budget (and probably mine) at £450 or so.

Not sure you or I have a great many options sadly.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Welcome both









There is an option (and I am not joking!) simply cut an access hole in the cupboard base and fit a joining tube/collar - it has been done before!

I am sure someone will be along before too long with machines etc that may fit your requirements if that ^^^ won't work


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## RooniusMaximus (Jan 30, 2019)

Thanks for that - but our cupboards have strip lights under them. Hard to cut through those...


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## RooniusMaximus (Jan 30, 2019)

All_a_Mort said:


> Faced with a similar situation (though with a few CMs to spare) I thought I'd reply to make (also) my first post.
> 
> The low cupboard issue we both have is massively restricting. In my case it's 41cm max. Like you, that rules out the Sage Bean-to-Cup models as it would be a tight fit with the hopper and then really hard to remove it to load. Another issue you and I will have is the water tank. On some machines like the Sage ones, the tank sits right at the back outside the machine on a little sort of plinth and can therefore be removed reasonably easily, even with the shortage of space available. Other machines though have the tank inside the machine which would mean moving the whole thing to refill. More expensive machines can be plumbed in of course, so no tank.
> 
> ...


It's been a right pain tbh.

Almost everything we have needs to be pulled out to be used.

Gutted about the coffee machine though. Really thought we'd found a solution.

The DeLonghi Magnifca would solve the decaff/caffeinated problem as the one we had in our rental house had two compartments - one for beans and one for grounds.

It's just too tall.

And my wife didn't like the way it looks.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Sage / Breville do make a Barista Express without the grinder. It's called the Infuser. It looks like it's built into a Sage Dual Temperature Pro body. I don't think it's available in the UK however it may be eg

https://www.thecoffeemate.co.uk/p/coffee-machine-sage-the-infuser-bes840/

That describes it as semi automatic. ??? It is a volumetric machine so would usually be described as full auto. The BE is as well. Most coffee you drink in cafe's etc will have been made via a full auto machine but don't get carried away thinking it's a simple as that looks to be.

John

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## All_a_Mort (Jan 28, 2019)

Infuser's not for the UK market though. That one (I've looked at that listing before) is for an Australian machine, which makes me a little confused/concerned about issues like the warranty and voltage. Australia is 230v @50hz, so similar/same as UK? Not sure if that means it'd be fine or not.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

You would need to ask Sage UK re the guarantee. Volts probably aren't a problem as the the uk is supposed to be 230v, Europe too but in real terms the tolerances have been changed not the actual numbers.

The only other way I can think you may be able to get a machine in is to replace one of the tall cabinets with a shorter one. Cutting a hole for the grinder on a BE wont work out well as you would need to lift the water tank out to fill it - that would probably mean removing the hopper so that you could swing it around to get at the tank. Cutting a U into the bottom of the shelf might.

I think that the standard height over the worktop is 50cm and I'd guess most machines assume this is available. That puts the bottom shelf nearly 5ft off the floor. We have tall cupboards too but also high ceilings.

John

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## All_a_Mort (Jan 28, 2019)

> Originally Posted by RooniusMaximus
> 
> The DeLonghi Magnifca would solve the decaff/caffeinated problem as the one we had in our rental house had two compartments - one for beans and one for grounds.
> 
> ...


Looking through some of the bean-to-cup options, would something from Jura's bean to cup machines suit? A lot of them are 32.2cm high according to their website, though they are I think a little more expensive than the Delonghi one you mentioned. A quick search here suggests that others on the site have had experience with them, so there might be useful reviews somewhere around on particular models. I think they come with the capacity for beans as well take pre-ground to facilitate using decaf as you mentioned. They look nice and neat as well.


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## malkyvich (Jan 25, 2019)

Couldnt you have a shelf installed somewhere? Doesnt have to be on the counter


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

malkyvich said:


> Couldnt you have a shelf installed somewhere? Doesnt have to be on the counter


This is what I'm doing at my new place. Not because the cupboards are too low but there just isn't enough counter space


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Don't forget that you'll need to top up the water tank every couple of days, in which case you'll need to move the machine unless you get one with side access.


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## RooniusMaximus (Jan 30, 2019)

Double post.


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## RooniusMaximus (Jan 30, 2019)

All_a_Mort said:


> Looking through some of the bean-to-cup options, would something from Jura's bean to cup machines suit? A lot of them are 32.2cm high according to their website, though they are I think a little more expensive than the Delonghi one you mentioned. A quick search here suggests that others on the site have had experience with them, so there might be useful reviews somewhere around on particular models. I think they come with the capacity for beans as well take pre-ground to facilitate using decaf as you mentioned. They look nice and neat as well.


They do look nice, but are way out of our price range.



malkyvich said:


> Couldnt you have a shelf installed somewhere? Doesnt have to be on the counter


Unfortunately there isn't a spare bit of wall anywhere in the kitchen.


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## RooniusMaximus (Jan 30, 2019)

Thanks all for the suggestions so far.

I did see a SMEG machine in John Lewis when we were looking at the Sage one, but online reviews suggest it's very temperamental.

It was this one: https://www.johnlewis.com/smeg-ecf01-coffee-machine/p3081576

But we'd still need to find a grinder.


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## All_a_Mort (Jan 28, 2019)

That looks like a SMEG branded version of the Delonghi Dedica. Owning the Dedica I can tell you that if you get into coffee, you'll very soon outgrow that thing, as I have. Sage's Bambino Plus is I think a better version of that sort of product (usually they come with pressurised portafilters, though you can buy unpressurised ones for either with a little effort) and the steam wand isn't as irritatingly short as it is on the Dedica and SMEG (it really is annoying). I think the Bambino Plus also has a PID which the Dedica and SMEG don't.


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

Gaggia classic. Separate grinder.

Carry on.


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## RooniusMaximus (Jan 30, 2019)

Just an update.

Thanks for all the hints, tips and suggestions.

In the end, we took a chance on the Sage BE as we thought it might fit under the cabinets if we could find a spot between the strip lights.

And it does.

Just.

But without the hopper.

It does mean sliding it out and re-attaching the hopper to use it. But I'm OK with that.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

RooniusMaximus said:


> Just an update.
> 
> Thanks for all the hints, tips and suggestions.
> 
> ...


Put some felt pads on the feet to aid moving.

Laissez les bons temps rouler


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## RooniusMaximus (Jan 30, 2019)

Ordered some.

But you can just see under the machine that it's currently on four bits of cloth.

Need to make sure the felt pads aren't too deep though as it's really tight.


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## All_a_Mort (Jan 28, 2019)

Have you made anything on it yet? If so, how'd it go?


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## RooniusMaximus (Jan 30, 2019)

Used it every day so far.

Loving the proper coffee, haven't mastered the frothy milk yet, and am unsure about using pre-ground coffee. It doesn't seem to compact in the same way as the freshly ground.

However, it might just be the type of coffee we have rather than a problem with pre- and fresh- ground beans.


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## All_a_Mort (Jan 28, 2019)

if the pre-ground is for the decaf, could you not just buy decaf beans? I see that Rave etc do them:

https://ravecoffee.co.uk/collections/decaf-coffee-beans

Problem using pre-ground coffee is that is you'd have to be bloody lucky to have it be just the right grind for the machine.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

RooniusMaximus said:


> Used it every day so far.
> 
> Loving the proper coffee, haven't mastered the frothy milk yet, and am unsure about using pre-ground coffee. It doesn't seem to compact in the same way as the freshly ground.
> 
> However, it might just be the type of coffee we have rather than a problem with pre- and fresh- ground beans.


Pre ground is hard to work with,

Decaf pre ground, doubley so.


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## RooniusMaximus (Jan 30, 2019)

All_a_Mort said:


> if the pre-ground is for the decaf, could you not just buy decaf beans? I see that Rave etc do them:
> 
> https://ravecoffee.co.uk/collections/decaf-coffee-beans
> 
> Problem using pre-ground coffee is that is you'd have to be bloody lucky to have it be just the right grind for the machine.


The reason for buying the pre-ground decaf is to have one at night. I'll drink normal the rest of the time.

Intersting about pre-ground decaf being hard to work with.

Learning loads that I probably should have found out before buying.

All that said, it was a bit better tonight as I suddenly remembered about the different filters. Had been using the single wall one which, apparently, is for freshly ground.

When I made a decaf the night before, it didn't seem to get up to pressure. Using the correct filter meant that it did. I didn't think it would make any difference.


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