# Vacuum Packing Beans - to freeze or not to freeze??!



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I wanted to share the results of a little experiment I have been running.

I buy beans by the kilo and vac pack in 125g pouches.

In early January 2018 I vac packed two portions of the some fully rested Rocko Mountain beans. One portion went in the freezer, the other in drawer that never gets opened.

I never beans store long term but, my theory was that if there was negligible difference between the two methods of storage after such an extended period, I can use either method for shorter-term storage.

I opened both this week to see if the freezer / draw storage made a difference after almost 10 months.

There was very little evidence of degassing in either case.

Tried the frozen beans first as have a sneaking suspicion frozen beans degrade quicker once out of the freezer (maybe another experiment?).

This was not a blind test - I knew which portion was which, so I wasn't convinced how reliable this would be.

The frozen batch very closely matched the grinder setting I had noted from the rest of the batch back in January. The flavour notes were quite clear and very enjoyable cup (so much so I remembered Ethiopia is in season right now and ordered more!).

I immediately noticed that the room temperature batch required a much, much finer grind setting to avoid gushing - a definite sign of an aged bean. There was definite bias as I knew which portion was which, but the flavours were flatter in the room temp beans. The "strawberry" notes were undetectable.

The room temp beans had definitely aged and degraded much more than the frozen portion.

So, in answer to the above question, I can clearly tell me wife that i do indeed need to take up a whole freezer drawer with vac packed beans as room temp storage definitely does not work as well!


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## Stu (Jan 3, 2018)

Thanks for the detailed findings... nice to hear some personal opinions from real world experiences.

I'm thinking of buying beans by the kilo in the future, so tips on preservation are handy.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Very useful test. Thank you. What vacuum packer do you use?


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Thanks for sharing rob. Have you tried freezing without vacuum packing?


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Cheers guys.

I use this : http:// https://www.foodsaver.co.uk/vacuum-sealers/shop-vacuum-sealers/foodsaver-automated-vacuum-sealing-system/FSFSSL3840-060.html

It is solid, seems well made and, more importantly, was what Costco were selling when I needed one.

There are certainly cheaper options but I wanted one that wouldn't break immediately and has a guarantee to back it up.

I understand Lakeland offer a good guarantee, so I'd just buy whatever they or John Lewis sell.

There is a school of thought around the forum that negative pressure through vacuum packing can pull oils to the surface of the beans and somehow degrade the quality of the beans.

I have seen no scientific evidence for this claim and have certainly not noticed this in my use of this kit over the last 10-12 months.

If there is an effect, it is beyond my abilities to detect and is overwhelmingly offset by the fact that, with proper stock management, vacuum sealing means you are constantly using fresh beans at their peak - freeze at the end of the rest period, and pull out 2-3 days' supply whenever needed. The beans are always perfectly fresh and I have noticed a massive difference in the cup.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Soll said:


> Thanks for sharing rob. Have you tried freezing without vacuum packing?


I used to freeze without vac packing - just squeeze the gas out of a sealer 250g bag, tape over the valve, and seal.

Works well very well, but not if to buy in 1kg bags - you would need to open the bag, expose the beans to air (I am assuming all atmospheric air in the sealed bag has been replaced by gas produced by the beans) and then repackage full of air. To my understanding this is not optimal.

Given buying by the kilo saves roughly 25% over buying in 250g bags, my vacuum sealer has paid for itself already this year.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Am using a chamber vaccuum device here ( bought from their ebay shop on sale and with a paypal 20% promotion start of this year, so whilst silly not totally silly...) and have seen no visible oils drawn to the surface. However, do not really roast into 2nd crack where oils would be more prevalent preferring to stay in the nominal description of "light"or "med" (or 90 to 115 on a tonino if wanting literal). If vaccing from roasted then do leave in the roast collection tub (ikea things with vents designed for Microwaving) for an hour or so post roast before vaccing following a comment from @Hasi that made a bit of sense ( they do go "loose" after a few days and am not vaccing them to extremes) with no discernable difference in taste after 1 week compared to control lots left in quality valved bags.

I quite often split the LSOL 500g offering into 2 bags once rested with no discernable difference up to 6 weeks at ambient and have a few 250g in the freezer as well and have noticed the frozen if thawed will lose their punch quicker than if stored at ambient.

John


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

johnealey said:


> ....have noticed the frozen if thawed will lose their punch quicker than if stored at ambient.
> 
> John


I totally agree with this.

Say you split a batch or rested beans, half vac pack, half use as you go. Say it takes 2 weeks to use the first half. The second vac packed half will start as fresh as when they were frozen, but seem to degrade quicker so, after 1 week might be the same as the first half were after two.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

I would add that I vac and freeze currently into 125g packs.

still my favourite are Guji beans.

With these I would opine that flavour is stronger and pour is "nicer" when the beans are packed and frozen the day they arrive rather than if rested


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

grumpydaddy said:


> I would add that I vac and freeze currently into 125g packs.
> 
> still my favourite are Guji beans.
> 
> With these I would opine that flavour is stronger and pour is "nicer" when the beans are packed and frozen the day they arrive rather than if rested


Interesting. I have not tried that.

So freeze, rest, use? Or freeze then use straight away?


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Vac, freeze on delivery, open and use immediately

In small packaging like this they are used quickly and I would venture to say that upon use it is as if they have had resting time.

Perhaps the vac process does this. Perhaps too it will be entirely otherwise with different beans


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Yeah, interesting. Suppose some beans are worse than others for misbehaving whilst degassing.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Not scientific in any manner but have noticed that some beans, post roast,will puff up the vacc'd bag a lot ( some recent Zimbabwe ) from week 1 to 2 wheras others not at all (Cuba Serrano) both stored well and roasted no later than 7 months post landing, could therefore also be a bean type quantifier?

John


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

If darker roasts degas quicker than lighter, I have noticed the same and always assumed it is a function of roast profile and whether more degassing had completed before I vac packed.

This must also be a function of some beans being more inclined to release volatiles than others?


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## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

Some I froze quite a while ago. Long since used but I don't remember any difference between the frozen ones and those that were used straight away. (Not that I am a connoisseur of course).

Vac machine used was an Andrew James.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

tAClue said:


> Some I froze quite a while ago. Long since used but I don't remember any difference between the frozen ones and those that were used straight away. (Not that I am a connoisseur of course).
> 
> Vac machine used was an Andrew James.


There is something nice about having a full stash of totally fresh beans to fall back on. Much simpler than trying to manage stock levels of fresh, rested, non-frozen beans!


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

I get it now


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Paul K said:


> I get it now


Let us know how you get on!


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

rob177palmer said:


> Let us know how you get on!


Will do, trying to decide. Whether or not to buy 2 airscape canisters. One for the espresso and one for the S/O


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## oracleuser (Sep 26, 2018)

I vacuum them and put them in the fridge ... cold enough and ideal compromise


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

Any good and reasonable Vacuum sealers?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I use this it's a copy of a another make just rebadged

https://www.wimports.co.uk/product-page/vacuum-food-sealer-bag-packing-machine


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

So fast forward two weeks. I have a vacuumed sealed bag of beans out the freezer, do I let them defrost in Vac bag and then transfer to an airscape or kilner jar for storage to use on a daily basis?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I use mine frozen.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Well, I freeze mine in the bag they arrived in, usually a 250g bag, just stick it in the vac bag, put it through the vac machine, freeze and then upon removal I remove from the vac bag (save it for further use) remove enough for my shot, then just reseal the bag they came in and leave in the cupboard to defrost.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

MildredM said:


> Well, I freeze mine in the bag they arrived in, usually a 250g bag, just stick it in the vac bag, put it through the vac machine, freeze and then upon removal I remove from the vac bag (save it for further use) remove enough for my shot, then just reseal the bag they came in and leave in the cupboard to defrost.


Are you not concerned about exposing the frozen beans to moist air?

Why not wait till the 250g bag defrosts before opening? At least whilst the bag is sealed the assumption is the sealed atmosphere is likely low moisture as is largely made up of gas from the beans?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

rob177palmer said:


> Are you not concerned about exposing the frozen beans to moist air?
> 
> Why not wait till the 250g bag defrosts before opening? At least whilst the bag is sealed the assumption is the sealed atmosphere is likely low moisture as is largely made up of gas from the beans?


Wouldn't that mean every time we opened our bag of beans we would be exposing it to moist air though? The bag is open for seconds while I tip 32g out


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

MildredM said:


> Wouldn't that mean every time we opened our bag of beans we would be exposing it to moist air though? The bag is open for seconds while I tip 32g out


Yes - absolutely - but the moisture is going to tend to condense once exposed to the very cold beans.

When the beans are at the same temperature as the air, they won't cause the same effect, so it isn't a problem after they defrost.

During the seconds you have the bag open, you are exchanging dry air in the sealed bag for moist air.

Totally understand that everyone has their own system. I'm just suggesting that, to my thinking, that's large and unnecessary "risk" I suppose. I am thinking about this from the same argument we use for never putting beans in a fridge - lots of moist air condensing on beans will spoil beans quickly.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I can see your point ^^^


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

^^^^^

^^^^^

VPack in 18g packs and use individually --- problem fixed


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

MildredM said:


> I can see your point ^^^


How about vacpacking a 32g dose to store with the bulk of the frozen beans to use while the others are defrosting?


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

********** said:


> ^^^^^
> 
> ^^^^^
> 
> VPack in 18g packs and use individually --- problem fixed


That would be one solution I suppose!

And yes, I need a Monolith flat









Can you show a picture of what yours look like frozen? My vac sealer leaves 1" flap on the outside of each seal, so this would mean lots of waste using mine.


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

I don't use a v packer so can't take pics of that. Have to go out now will get back to you laters


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

@rob177palmer, as mentioned before I do not use a vac packer, I simply freeze mine after resting 7-10 days in small amounts 100g in recycled takeaway containers







in the optimism that removing them from freezer, weighing a single dose, grinding and adjusting dose (roll on the Niche) if needed isn't causing to much damage whilst there out of the freezer, hence the small batches. I'm investigating other options for storage, possibly single dose containers if I can find something suitable.

Below are a couple of links, the first of which set me of down this chilly route, and provide excellent reading on the subject, there is far more out there on the net as I'm sure your aware along with the opposite view being touted also. I went with freezing as it made sense to me and fits in with my workflow, may not suit everyone though, it's a free world as they say ..... well pea free in this case









1 :- https://strivefortone.com/2017/01/03/freeze-beans-not-peas/

2 :- https://medium.com/@botanycoffee/down-the-vacuum-sealing-rabbit-hole-7b431141240?goal=0_8a7d476db7-722bd08459-219202405&mc_cid=722bd08459&mc_eid=8ed553ab96


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

********** said:


> @rob177palmer, as mentioned before I do not use a vac packer, I simply freeze mine after resting 7-10 days in small amounts 100g in recycled takeaway containers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Totally agree that if you are dosing frozen beans to single dose I can't see a need to vac pack.

Think your approach sounds very sensible using the niche. Be interested to hear how it gets on!


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

I decided to try the freeze method after reading this thread. Thanks to @rob177palmer for the enablement. So I have a bag of El Salvador currently freezing after resting for 5 days after roasting, and my using bag of 5 Bean Tweak from Home Ground which are probably on the down turn of freshness. 5 bean into 200g bags and El Salvador into 125g bags.

I've just purchased the 2 Airscape Canisters, one black for the 5 bean tweak espresso, and one red for the S/O. I like colour compartmentalization. I will keep going with the 5 bean until the Niche arrives and then open the El Salvador and transfer into the Airscape and try that for a couple of days or so until I get more S/O and also the 5 bean to see the difference.

What did stick in my head was the fact that when you freeze rested beans and open them to start using, you don't loose any of the freshness if that makes sense.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Paul K said:


> What did stick in my head was the fact that when you freeze rested beans and open them to start using, you don't loose any of the freshness if that makes sense.


Yes - seems lots of people have independently noted that freezing seems to stop the ageing process almost entirely - even after months the beans seem to grind as per when frozen!


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