# Espresso Maker Advice



## Jubbly (Jan 7, 2011)

Hi All

I have recently moved from a nespresso to a Bodum Bistro grinder and a french press which is much better coffee.

Now considering an Espresso maker.

Can get this for £50 second hand, i know its old but in very good condition and hardly used apparently !

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gaggia-Coffee-Deluxe-Espresso-Cappuccino/dp/B00008BQZ8

Good buy or would i be better buying a new one ? Will only be using maybe once a day so don't want to spend too much.

Any advice appreciated


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

You can get a 2nd hand Gaggia Classic off ebay for about £100.

Or from me guaranteed working see thread http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?3891-Gaggia-Classic-for-sale see 2nd page for pics etc


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## Jubbly (Jan 7, 2011)

Ok thanks.

I am starting to think that i am way out of my depth on this forum.

Have had cheap coffee makers and espresso makers in the past and I then moved to a nespresso which was convienient and the coffee was nice.

I wanted better tasting coffee and larger cups of coffee rather than just espresso's so i bought a bodum bistro grinder and a french press as was under the impression that fresh beans were much better and the coffee is indeed much better !

I now want to get back into espresso's as well but get the impression from this forum that my grinder "won't grind fine enough for espresso". What does this actually mean, will the machine not work or will the shots just be poor. I don't want to have to buy pre ground as this seems like a backward step.

Thanks


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## crispy (Jun 6, 2011)

Hi Jubbly...

Please don't feel like this is a forum for snobs or extremists of coffee... this is a forum designed for everyone regardless of knowledge or experience... pretty much all of the advice you will receive here is a result from user's own experiences whether good or bad...

after personal experiences and lots of reading of others, the grinder is pretty much your key component to producing good, if not great coffee... it is the ability to change the grind for each given brewing method that allows you to extract the best from your beans...

for french press, chemex and most other pour-over brew methods blade grinders will work well as they use a much coarser grind compared to espresso (I think =?? )

for espresso the ability to get a fine enough grind ensures you can control the extraction through the beans.. too fast and the coffee isn't extracted well, too fine and it becomes over extracted... this pretty much effects how your coffee tastes... most blade grinders won't grind fine enough meaning the water will pass through the coffee faster than is intended, a lower or top end machine will produce the same result as it is down to the grind not the machine...

not being able to achieve this doesn't mean you shouldn't bother buying fresh coffee just that you might not be getting the best out of them, fresh coffee isn't particularly cheap either...

we want to help you understand why x or y might help and how they will affect it... if you are willing, you will learn...

hope this helps...

Chris =)


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

That's a good price for the machine and should see you making espresso in no time.

The current grinder that you have may not grind fine enough

This means that too much water passes through the puck (the coffee after you have tamped it) and can lead to sourness or bitterness as all the goodness will have been taken from the beans that the water flows over and then continues to do so until the switch is turned off.

When you grind finer the water touches more particles, and spends less time on each particle (or grain) of coffee, therefore you get a better extraction

The aim for espresso is to grind pretty fine and increase the total surface area being touched by doing so.

You could get a hand grinder for £30 which will grind fine enough for espresso (either a Porlex or a Hario Ceramic Slim)

That way the total cost is still less than the cost of a second hand Gaggia Classic


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Welcome to the forum - and please don't think that you are out of your depth. There's a wealth of experience on here, and everyone is more than happy to give you hints on how to get the best out of any equipment that you buy. Glenn has already explained why the grinds need to be fine for espresso, and if you're only making it once a day a good hand-grinder should suit you fine. Certainly with the machine you've mentioned, a hand grinder and good beans you'll soon be making espresso that's far better than anything that comes out of a nespresso machine. Good luck!


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## Jubbly (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks all for the advice.

To complicate matters this video states my grinder would work for pressurized filter machines only. So basically all lower end machines and a few higher end. Why is this ?

http://www.amazon.com/Bodum-Bistro-Electric-Coffee-Grinder/dp/B0043095WW

So should i just buy a rubbish cheap on or would i still be better to buy the gaggia ?

Sorry for all the questions.


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## Jubbly (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks all for the advice.

To complicate matters this video states my grinder would work for pressurized filter machines only. So basically all lower end machines and a few higher end. Why is this ?

http://www.amazon.com/Bodum-Bistro-Electric-Coffee-Grinder/dp/B0043095WW

So if i decide to stick with my burr grinder should i just buy a rubbish cheap one or would i still be better to buy the gaggia ?

Sorry for all the questions.


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## crispy (Jun 6, 2011)

Jubbly said:


> Thanks all for the advice.
> 
> To complicate matters this video states my grinder would work for pressurized filter machines only. So basically all lower end machines and a few higher end. Why is this ?
> 
> ...


I suppose it depends on whether you are happy to invest money in the Gaggia... if you purchased one (which is a hugely popular machine) it would be something that you wouldn't need to change for the forseeable future... to get the best out of it espresso wise, it would be worth considering investing in a grinder to go with it such as the £30 Porlex hand grinder Glenn suggested...

worst case, if you don't get on with it you will be able to sell the Gaggia and recoup most of your money due to it's popularity... a cheap machine is less likely to hold it's value and could be a limiting factor in the future whereas the Gaggia won't...

With regards to machine differences, pressurized machines are more forgiving as they are not as reliant on the grind being fine enough to slow the water flow through the coffee... they instead rely on the machine to fire water through the coffee at a preset pressure thus producing pressure differently to a non-pressurized machine, and generally a different crema...

Non-pressurized machines rely on the grind being fine enough in the filter basket (within the portafilter) to slow the water flow thus producing sufficient pressure through the coffee... with an ideal of between 25-28 seconds of extraction for a double espresso producing about 50ml this will generally result in a good crema due to the rate the water flows through the coffee and the pressure at which it does so...

worth reading the following... something I have read it many times =)... http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/barista/10-14-2006

also, another article on pressurized and non-pressurized machines...http://blog.seattlecoffeegear.com/2008/12/30/ask-the-experts-whats-the-difference-between-pressurized-and-non-pressurized-filter-baskets/

enjoy


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## Jubbly (Jan 7, 2011)

Excellent response, thanks crispy.


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