# Free beans



## MikeHag

I used my Gene Cafe for the first time yesterday. Was really pleased with the results and the learning experience, but I took the beans to a rolling 2nd crack, which is darker than I personally enjoy drinking. Rather than bin them I'm happy to send them to the first person who wants them... I reckon someone will like them as I found the espresso I made quite acceptable (just too dark for me). Only 180g or so. Free. Go!

(Left=mine. Right=not mine)










BTW, nicaragua jinotego and matagalpa


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## chequ3r

I would absolutely love to give them a try


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## MikeHag

Sold to the man with the expensive name. PM me your address, matey


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## jimgrant

hi mike just wondered how much often you plan on giving beans away?usually go for bike rides this time of year and not too far away i think.how are plans for shop going?


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## MikeHag

Where are you based? If you're passing by I'll roast you a bag of beans to order









Hang on... is that you up Glen Lyon... Jamie? Aah no... I see now, Dundee. I remember now from our Facebook page







Drop me a PM if you like and I'll give you my number to arrange something when you're over in the area.

Chequ3r, I decided I'd send you a freshly roasted bag instead of that first batch. Arriving some time next week.

Please keep expectations low


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## MikeHag

Two batches roasted today and ready to post







160g in each bag, as I kept some back for myself to try, since the roasts went well and they look great to me. Only tasting will tell tho!

Hope Steve Leighton doesn't mind that I am reusing his bags!! Did a quick photoshop on them for fun ....


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## wastedhours

Haha, HagBean! Intrigued by the results achievable in the Gene Cafe..


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## fatboyslim

How light/dark did you take them?

I've got some Matagalapa that I've tried in the popcorn roastery with pretty tasty results but usually darker than I'd like.


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## MikeHag

I logged my first roast a week or so ago, and they came out at 16mins, at which point 2C was rolling. I didn't hear 1C. This time I did hear 1C, from 12:30-13:30 and ended the roast at 14:30. Weight loss was 14.5% so less than City. Probably med-light. Visibly very similar to Oporapa.


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## MikeHag




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## MikeHag

Well I just brewed some in a pourover and found them really quite good, if I say so myself. Plenty of body and a creamy mouthfeel, but with a mild acidity that tingles on the lips. A very very slight funky flavour, combined with some parchment/silverskin still on the green beans, suggests the beans are dry processed (natural). Despite being a med-light roast I think they may be quite good in espresso for those who like that sort of roast.

Next time I'm going to slow down the roast at first crack to see if the flavours develop more.


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## chequ3r

MikeHag said:


> Chequ3r, I decided I'd send you a freshly roasted bag instead of that first batch. Arriving some time next week.
> 
> Please keep expectations low


Oooh thanks









Pah, don't knock yourself down


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## MartinB

I'd be keen on purchasing some beans from you, Mike. Do let me know if/when that's possible


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## MikeHag

PM me your address please, Martin


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## fatboyslim

How long till we see the Hag Bean Espresso Blend?


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## MikeHag

Oh, having done just 3 roasts I'm probably quite far from doing a good job of a blend







But anything's possible!

I have some Nicaragua Finca Santa Maura Pacamara that were a gift from Fiona at http://www.glenlyoncoffee.co.uk/ so I'll be giving those a try soon and may need some willing victims! (BTW Fiona is getting good! Check out her website. The Bolivia Finca Juana Mamani is a gem from the Caranavi region. I believe she's there right now, so perhaps contact her in a week or so for any orders.)


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## Earlepap

Nice website that, I'll give them a go once their selling. I'll gladly be a HagBean victim too of course.


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## fatboyslim

How easy is it to get 2 roasts the exact same?

I'd love to try some if you can post them in letterbox friendly packaging?


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## MikeHag

I can get 160g flat enough to post as a large 2nd class letter, keeping postage under a quid, which I'm happy to pay









I was actually really surprised at how closely the second roast I did last week followed the profile of the first. It meant they both came out looking almost exactly the same, so I was comfortable with mixing the two batches together.

I do have an external standalone cooler, which helps.


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## lookseehear

I'm becoming increasingly tempted by a gene cafe. How much smoke would you say it produces on a medium roast Mike?

Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk 2


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## MikeHag

lookseehear said:


> I'm becoming increasingly tempted by a gene cafe. How much smoke would you say it produces on a medium roast Mike?
> 
> Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk 2


None at all for me, since I use a length of 80mm ducting to vent it out of the window. Cost under a fiver







I do get a tiny bit of smoke I suppose, but that's only when I transfer the beans to the external cooler, and once I put the lid on the cooler it stops, so perhaps a couple of seconds of a very small amount of smoke.

Saying that though, on my very first roast I got a fair bit of smoke when transferring the beans, just because I'd gone well into second crack. But it's avoidable, and if you use the Gene Cafe's built in cooling cycle (combined with the 80mm ducting) then I can't see how you'd get any smoke at all.


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## garydyke1

Mike if you want some impartial honest feedback about your roasts, im happy to do some cupping for you ; )


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## MikeHag

Noooo! The one proviso with these free beans is NO FEEDBACK!! My ego couldn't take the pain of all that criticism







PM me an address tho Gary... I need to get your Ubercosy sent to you anyway.


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## fatboyslim

I'm thinking Mike that if you were able to do several 160g roasts all of a very similar level and then post them out, then people could compare cupping notes? A group of non-professionals throwing around words like mouthfeel and mid-cup is only going to end in hilarity. You could call it In My Hag









I'd definitely be game for that.


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## MikeHag

I like the idea.

Gonna have to ring the bell on all Has Bean puns now.. Steve might sue my ass!!







but don't forget, life's too short fo... Oops, forget that!!!


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## cjbailey1

I would be quite happy to try some if you want to send it all the way to my little Island! (it is standard royal fail postage rates lol) I'm happy to provide feedback or not dependant on your preference and I'm happy to cover costs


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## MikeHag

Happy to send some over







Please PM me an address.


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## coffeeone

hey mike i would love to try some of your beans. If the offer is still open? still new to this and the opportunity to try freshly roasted beans done by you would be cool.


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## MikeHag

coffeeone said:


> hey mike i would love to try some of your beans. If the offer is still open? still new to this and the opportunity to try freshly roasted beans done by you would be cool.


Yep. PM your address please









I haven't found time to actually roast any beans lately, but I have just bought a few different varieties of green beans and some valve bags, so when I get a chance (amongst setting up the cafe) I'll post some out to those who have expressed an interest







I think they will all be 160g.

I'm enjoying playing around with ideas. Initially I'm not going to reveal full details of the beans apart from roast date, as I was intrigued when Jim Grant, who received some last week, said he enjoyed "tasting blind" rather than having the roaster's cupping notes. My cupping notes would probably be pretty rubbish anyway! But maybe it would be fun to have a bi-weekly thing where I send out some coffees for blind tasting and then we all compare tasting notes on this forum... perhaps try to guess the region, the variety, or any other characteristics about the bean and the roast, and then get the big 'reveal' a week or so after receiving them. It might focus the mind and improve our palates







And there may be a few surprises in there! I wouldn't be able to pay everyone's postage, but wouldn't want to make any profit from it so it would just be a case of covering the cost of the beans and postage... probably something like £3 to £3.50 including postage. Anyone up for this if I have time to pull it off?

(Please always bear in mind though that I'm just a newbie home roaster!!







)


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## MartinB

I'm there


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## Filthy_rich85

Very interested in helping you out and trying some new beans.....


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## MikeHag

Brilliant







cheers chaps. I'm gonna roast these babies anyway so I'm really glad someone will get to use them, and we can make things intetesting along the way.


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## seeq

Sounds like a plan, I'm not sure my palette is refined enough to be a lot of help, but I could certainly let you know if they were nice or not!


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## MartinB

I'd say i'm the same as you, seeq - keen on learning cupping etc!


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## coffeeone

MikeHag said:


> Yep. PM your address please
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> I haven't found time to actually roast any beans lately, but I have just bought a few different varieties of green beans and some valve bags, so when I get a chance (amongst setting up the cafe) I'll post some out to those who have expressed an interest
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> I think they will all be 160g.
> 
> I'm enjoying playing around with ideas. Initially I'm not going to reveal full details of the beans apart from roast date, as I was intrigued when Jim Grant, who received some last week, said he enjoyed "tasting blind" rather than having the roaster's cupping notes. My cupping notes would probably be pretty rubbish anyway! But maybe it would be fun to have a bi-weekly thing where I send out some coffees for blind tasting and then we all compare tasting notes on this forum... perhaps try to guess the region, the variety, or any other characteristics about the bean and the roast, and then get the big 'reveal' a week or so after receiving them. It might focus the mind and improve our palates
> 
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> And there may be a few surprises in there! I wouldn't be able to pay everyone's postage, but wouldn't want to make any profit from it so it would just be a case of covering the cost of the beans and postage... probably something like £3 to £3.50 including postage. Anyone up for this if I have time to pull it off?
> 
> (Please always bear in mind though that I'm just a newbie home roaster!!
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> )


what a really cool idea. count me in on this please. Also i for one do not expect you to pay for this and would be more than happy to cover whatever costs incurred.

great idea!


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## MikeHag

This is looking good







So far that's five in the club... I'm thinking of calling it The Senseless Lab. Any other suggestions?

MartinB

coffeeone

Danm

Filthy_rich85

seeq

Just about the right size for now... think I can manage a sixth person if anyone is interested.

That's about right for 2kg worth of greens, including a test roast or two, to give me a baseline roast profile before roasting the ones for Senseless Lab members









Thanks again for being into this!


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## Earlepap

I believe I registered interest in this two pages ago









Would be good since we could try different brew methods and compare notes.

How about calling it "Old Hag",

no no no,

"Hagged Senseless".


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## MikeHag

You're in









I'll be doing the first roast and post in a week or so, but I'll make a new thread just before to kick it off. I'm thinking I might include a little article with each despatch, incorporating a little info on sensory type stuff to give the blind tasting a bit of a boost.


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## Earlepap

Excellent, sounds great. Let us know when to PM addresses and how to get moneys to you for postage etc.


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## coffeeone

MikeHag said:


> You're in
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> 
> I'll be doing the first roast and post in a week or so, but I'll make a new thread just before to kick it off. I'm thinking I might include a little article with each despatch, incorporating a little info on sensory type stuff to give the blind tasting a bit of a boost.


nice! My tastebuds are awful so any info on how to really assist the tasting would be greatly appreciated. What a cool idea!!!


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## MikeHag

MikeHag said:


> Oh, having done just 3 roasts I'm probably quite far from doing a good job of a blend
> 
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> But anything's possible!
> 
> I have some Nicaragua Finca Santa Maura Pacamara that were a gift from Fiona at http://www.glenlyoncoffee.co.uk/ so I'll be giving those a try soon and may need some willing victims! (BTW Fiona is getting good! Check out her website. The Bolivia Finca Juana Mamani is a gem from the Caranavi region. I believe she's there right now, so perhaps contact her in a week or so for any orders.)


Quick update. I roasted the nicaraguan pacamara. These are unusual beans and I expected to feck them up big time. Actually they ended up bring blooming amazing as an SO espresso, so much so that I'm quite gutted I dont have more of the green beans. The Gene Cafe is shockingly good! (Mind you, I cool them with the standalone cooling bin.)

I am accumulating a small stock of green beans. I started off with fairly cheap ones, which are actually ok, but the pacamara came through Mercanta, and the hike in quality really shows so I'm now trying to buy better beans when possible.

I'll kick off the 'club' very soon


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## MartinB

Hi Mike, any news on this enterprise at all?


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## MikeHag

Thanks for asking. Will send some out this week







do I have your address in my PM inbox? Cant remember now :/


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## pendragoncs

Mike,

I've got a few Hasbean Bags here if you want/need them.

PM me your address and i'll pop them in the post.

Jason


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## MikeHag

Thanks Jason. Good of you. Hang on to em for now mate... Eventually what I'd really like to do is give people options... either receive beans in a resealable valved standup pouch, or if they already have one they could reuse then I'd offer a discount and send the beans in a more environmentally friendly bag.

Do I have your address, Jason? If not, PM me


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## MartinB

MikeHag said:


> Thanks for asking. Will send some out this week
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> do I have your address in my PM inbox? Cant remember now :/


Hi Mike, I may have done a while back but i'll send it again now.


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## MikeHag

Thanks Martin. Been working on different profiles this week to see what works best with a particular bean. Will get some out to you soon


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## MikeHag

OK - I've started using my larger roaster more regularly, at 568g a batch.

Slight change of plan though... I've bought 29kg of past crop beans from Square Mile. They are beans that they themselves won't sell roasted as the quality is no longer high enough, being from a previous year and having lost their wow factor, so I'm using them to help me get familiar with this roaster. The byproduct is that I have roasted beans going to waste, and over the next few weeks if anyone would like some then just PM me your address (if I don't have it already). *No charge*.

*BUT!! *Here's the fun part. I'd like to offer these as an experiment in *BAD beans*! How many of you have ever tasted past crop? Most of us are drinking really good speciality coffee from current season, so it may be interesting to compare the impact of one, two or three years of aging... or I should probably say "oldness"!!

I'd also like you to use it to explore *BAD roasting*! Again, we tend to buy from good roasters, which I am not! So it may be interesting to see if you can distinguish any roasting defects through your own sensory abilities. I'm not going to be offended. And to prove it I can tell you now - I cupped some of this stuff today and thought it was *completely shit!* But still interesting, as I then brewed it as a straight espresso and found it to be *only a little bit shit*, and then poured a cappuccino with it and thought it had been promoted to *very average*. We had a visitor at the house today who had it as a flat white, and said the coffee alone was *worth the visit*! How strange!

As time goes on I'll learn how to control the roast with this roaster better (it's a Sivetz 1.25lb fluid bed roaster) and hopefully progress to roasting nice coffees... infact I know I will... but not yet. Let the shit coffee roasting commence!!









(ps Martin and Jim, I have already sent you each a bag of shit... enjoy. Think of it as a new brand of Kopi Luwak!!)


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## MikeHag

By the way, here's the label I would put on the bag... if my rubbish Epson printer from rubbish PC World wasn't rejecting my perfectly good batch of new cartridges just because they aren't Epson's own (3 times more expensive) brand:


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## garydyke1

Mike hit me up with some crap


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## MikeHag

It's sliding its way along the sewer system to your bathroom already. Still Viceroy? Think you were moving home


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## garydyke1

Yeah still Viceroy for now : (

Free shit : )


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## MikeHag

I received a PM from one of last week's recipients acknowledging the crapness of the beans







Excellent! He also said he was surprised at how dark the beans were roasted considering I like lighter roasts, so can I just repeat that these are NOT an example of how I'd like my roasts to be!! I can't drink these nasty things (although my wife can as a latte!). For one thing they are indeed roasted too dark, which is not deliberate but a result of my lack of knowledge of how the Sitetz roaster responds and how long it typically takes to roast a batch. Also the beans are from a 2009 harvest I believe, and to me this is really interesting and I'm keen to know how you find this affects the flavour, or lack thereof!

Personally I find them very earthy, sour, with a very fibrous taste like munching on the bark of a tree - which makes sense because all the lovely flavours and aromas in fresh/seasonal beans come from the volatile gases and soluble organic matter... which in old beans like these has supposedly gone, and most of what is left is the cellulose structure of the bean. So actually the body might well be quite good (since its these insolubles that make up body), despite the crap taste!

Really - stick the boot into these beans. I claim no responsibility for these beans at all







If anyone starts saying I'm a crap roaster because of this then I'll cry and you can all get tae fook


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## garydyke1

I agree with the ''earthy'' taste, the body wasnt too bad and the crema looked inviting! I tried 18g into 27g & there was some bitterness (even at 92c).

I might up-dose and down-yield to squeeze as much goodness out of them as I can ...say 25g from 18.5 in a gloopy 30 seconds. Will feed back results

I think in milk something good might happen....


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## CoffeeJohnny

you had chance to try the coffee yet?


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## Danm

I was actually far too polite to say the beans were crap









After the initial hit of extreme sourness i was definitely getting something that was bordering on almost being pleasant...potential was the phrase i used i think


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## lookseehear

I just tried them through my clever dripper next to a cup of SM Wote Yirgacheffe for comparison.

The main thing I noticed on grinding them was there was no sweet aroma - just a bit dull really. In the cup it was very earthy and grassy. After the initial 'hit' there was a hint of something sweet then a fairly unpleasant finish - rubbery or perhaps just a bit roasty.

I'll try espresso tomorrow and another brew, but it really opens your eyes to how greens age too.


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## james10

I think my postman has decided to try these beans before he delivers them

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MikeHag

Not sent yet, James. Sorry - quite hectic with cafe stuff right now but will try to get a roast done today for you and Rowan... hopefully an improved, lighter roast! Anyone else?


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## seeq

Sorry mike, having a busy month and I still haven't PM'd you my address! I shall get onto it right away so you can have the use of my extremely ineffective taste buds!


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## james10

Don't apologise.

I'm just glad they haven't been posted because I was planning on giving postman pat a right evil stare when I saw him next









You do realise, if they make a decent latte you're going to have to start selling them to me!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MikeHag

I'm not worried


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## MikeHag

Earlepap and james10 your beans are going out today. Lighter roast, better roast, cupping it was quite pleasant. Let me know how crap it is when brewed please - and thoughts on Past Crop


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## Earlepap

Splendid! I look forward to it. I might actually have a little cupping sesh, as today I received a newly roasted pair of the natural process Limoncellos from HB, and it'll be a new IMM tomorrow. I wonder if there's some way I could cup them blind on my own, as to try and pick out which is the Hagged Sensless past crop.

[edit]

Thinking about it, I'm not really sure what a cupping grind looks like. Anyone care to share?


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## MikeHag

A cupping grind is "fine", where approx 70-75% of particles pass thru a US size 20 sieve, which equates to a hole size of 0.85mm


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## Earlepap

Face - palm. That explains so much. Thank you.


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## MikeHag

Been grinding coarse and getting pissy weak cups?


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## Earlepap

You betcha.


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## Earlepap

I'm currently drinking your post roast Mike! Made it in the aeropress. Nice aroma when I opened the bag and later when I smelt the grounds. Taste..... difficult to say. It's certainly not unpleasant, fairly rounded with light choc nut and a bit of grapefruit acidity? No massive flavours, which I put down to either my brewing skills or the the age of the beans. Has made me realise how difficult it is to taste without reading a professional's notes first! No idea of the county of origin, but I'll hazard a guess at South American..... maybe Colombia?

Many thanks for the gift. I'll try them in a different brewing method next.

P.s.

Nice label. Love how you dedicate the roast to that dude then end by saying it'll probably taste shit.


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## MikeHag

Cool - glad to hear that some of the roasting defects of earlier batches were reduced/removed from this batch. Look forward to hearing what James has to say as he got some too. I suspect the acidity you're getting is mainly a result of keeping the roast as light as I could rather than any nice carbs within the bean. One of the clear themes coming through from everyone is the lack of flavours... absolutely rings true with the loss of organic materials that is said to occur as the green beans age and die off, so not an issue with your brewing skills







Also really good reading what you say about tasting blind. It's a fantastic way to highten your tasting/sensory skills. As Expo said previously, the power of suggestion is strong so it's good to have no prior knowledge of what you're tasting. Afraid I have no idea what the beans are/were, but I do suspect a central american, maybe bourbon because of the shape and the slight sweetness when I cupped this batch.

Hehe - I did think that dedication was a bit of a mixed message. Hope he isn't turning in his grave, poor bloke!

I'll do a few more batches with the crap beans (if anyone wants some) and then give the new roaster a try with some nice beans (time permittings!!).


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## james10

I did mean to reply the other day!

First off. I think you need to stop being so bloody harsh with yourself. For someone who's new to roasting I think you've done a cracking job! (that's not supposed to sound condescending as the only thing I've ever roasted is a chicken).

Before I get ahead of myself and everyone starts thinking that these beans were the best thing since sliced bread, let me give you my experience with them:

Im in no way a coffee / espresso connoisseur! I have milk based drinks pretty much 95% of the time.

Upon opening the beans, they smelt lovely, kind of like peanut butter! So I got rather excited and flicked on the classic.

First double shot was an absolute gusher and after some tinkering with the grind and tamp, I managed to get a reasonable shot. May I add, I experienced premature blonding on every shot and technically, I couldn't hit the 2oz / 25 second benchmark - however I am under no illusions that this is because I'm slightly retarded and it does take me a few 100g's of beans to hit the sweet spot!

Anyway taste wise, I thought it was very acceptable. Better than coffee shops standards (that isn't meant to sound like an insult Mike).

But for me, there just wasn't that much flavour coming through. It was quite bland.

I usually buy Italian roasted beans so maybe the lighter roast are fighting a losing battle in terms of matching the deep flavour.

All in all, I take my hat off to you sir!!

When you decide to buy fresh green beans: if you do a dark roast I would 100% buy some from you.

P.S. I did appreciate the somewhat humorous label!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Earlepap

james10 said:


> For someone who's new to roasting I think you've done a cracking job!


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## MikeHag

Awesome









My own conclusion from this experiment is that people knock themselves for not having very good coffee tasting skills, but it turns out that if you give them old, past season beans then they can all identify the differences that come from that factor! Love it.


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## Earlepap

Just tried your beans as espresso Mike. More interesting than brewed, though again nothing wow. Took a slightly savoury taste on. The shot blonded quickly and was slightly gushy despite a pretty fine grind, but I still drank the whole thing. Better than the High St still.


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## MartinB

I meant to reply sooner Mike however i've been a busy chap over the last few weeks.

I echo the other comments on this thread - I think you're being too hard on yourself! I used the beans you sent me in my Aeropress. I think I can tell the difference between fresh beans and older beans. I like the word 'savoury' as detailed above - a savoury taste indeed, tbh, I can't remember making a bad cup with the beans otherwise it would have stayed with me! Sorry I can't be too descriptive with my feedback, perhaps I shouldn't leave it 4 weeks plus next time time before I get in touch!

Martin


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## MikeHag

Thanks Martin









I promise, I'm not being hard on myself at all. I claim little or no involvement in how good or bad the beans are to be honest, since the green beans are so aged that I don't think any roaster on the planet could make them taste good. But I'm very happy that my last go at roasting them was better than the one before, and that you were actually able to drink them.

I have a load of really nice green beans just waiting to roast but getting Habitat Cafe open has now swallowed almost every hour of the day so for the foreseeable future I'll have to snatch a few good roasts when I can!


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