# Classic vs. the rest - your opinions



## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

A question to all past and present Gaggia users - the model that obviously gets most exposure is the Classic. Are there any other models in the Gaggia range that would be on par, performance wise, with the Classic?

The Baby looks very impressive, so do a few of the others. The only think that bothers me about the Classic is it looks. Simply put, it's not very aesthetic.

Your views please....?


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I used to run a Classic, and always thought of it as a purposeful-looking machine. No bells, whistles or frills, but a working tool that does the job. Lots of other kitchen appliances are much uglier, in my view,


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

You may be right, but then you haven't seen my kitchen. Barely a couple of months old and not an ugly appliance in sight.

No need to go and upset the wife now.....


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Without stepping up significantly in price as well, no









Some of the plastic fantastics look good, but perform below par.

I'm not letting my wife see your kitchen - no way jose - I would be either a) divorced or b) broke - needing to buy a new kitchen

I fully understand and appreciate the question


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Osh said:


> Barely a couple of months old and not an ugly appliance in sight.


Better not upgrade your grinder, then. ;>)))


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

Glenn, you're supposed to concentrate on the coffee, not the kitchen!











Glenn said:


> Without stepping up significantly in price as well, no


Which model would you recommend for a higher price?



Glenn said:


> I'm not letting my wife see your kitchen - no way jose - I would be either a) divorced or b) broke - needing to buy a new kitchen
> 
> I fully understand and appreciate the question


Well, I'm probably broke then!!!


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

My personal price list for upgrading is as follows, with only approximate prices.

1. Gaggia Classic - under £300, solid piece of kit, keeps its looks better than the plastic Gaggia machines and can take the Rancilio steam wand mod.

2. Rancilio Silvia -£400, better than the Classic due to improved thermal stability and a bit more steaming wellie but as with the Classic you cannot steam and brew at the same time, not a problem really IMO unless you have to produce more than say 4 milk based drinks at one time.

3. Fracino Cherub - under £600, big and powerful HX machine UK made with good support, not the greatest piece of eye candy but a lot of machine for the dosh.

4. Expobar Leva Dual boiler - under £1000, benefits of two boilers, PID, no HX flushes, has some of that eye candy appeal with exposed group head, knobs and steam pipes.

5 Izzo Alex Mk 2 - under £1200, Very well mad HX machine with a rotary pump rather than the noisy vibe one, I just think thats cool and again eye candy.

6 Dalla Corte Mini - £1600, unique design, dual boiler, small footprint, adjustable temp, I picked this one because its just different.

7. Izzo Alex Duetto - £1600, dual boiler PID eye candy with Izzo build quality.

Just remember the good old law of diminishing returns applies and all these machines will produce a damn fine coffee in the hands of someone who has learned how to get the best out of it. But eye candy, repeatability and consistency of results, need to do a greater volume of drinks all come into the equation. Plus wil lt fit in the kitchen and will the partner (if there is one) give the seal of approval.

Don


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

I think Don has got a great list there. I would also add for looks the Giotto Premium Plus.

My Gaggia TS is not a good looker, but a heck of a performer. I'm not sure if Mrs Banish has forgiven me yet. She claims she will be taking a much closer eye on my purchases in the future









I think sub £500 the Rancilio Silvia takes the image and performance award. I would discount the other Gaggias apart from the Classic.


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

BanishInstant said:


> I think sub £500 the Rancilio Silvia takes the image and performance award. I would discount the other Gaggias apart from the Classic.


Well, I suppose that answers it for me. There's no way I can justify a HX machine - it wouldn't leave room for anything else in the kitchen.


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

DonRJ - a great list. Spot on.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Yes indeed, a well thought through list.

...but, after a lottery win, I have no doubt this would be filling up some of my work-top space:

http://www.coffeehit.co.uk/PRD_ProductDetail.aspx?prodid=18


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

That is a dream machine, but what a hefty price tag.


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## FurryCup (Jun 10, 2010)

I have read that you get better shots with the Baby Twin (better temp) but you are unable to upgrade them to the Silvia steam wand so not much good for milk based drinks. This is the problem with small home espresso machines manufacturers put too much time into making a pretty machine and not enough into making a great coffee machine. How hard can it be to make a true small twin boiler machine with a pid for £6-700.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Vintage ----> that isone heck of a piece of kit, I fear that the lottery win would be essential as I would have to upgrade my house before installing that beast.

Furry-----> Have not picked up that comment about the baby twin but would not trust it as the machine is essentially the same as other Gaggias with a thermoblock for steaming and its not a proper dual boiler job cos you cannot steam and brew at the same time or so I have read.

Least expensive proper dual boiler machine I have found is the Expobar Leva Dual boiler for £969

Don


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

FurryCup said:


> . How hard can it be to make a true small twin boiler machine with a pid for £6-700.


Not that hard, I would imagine. But how big would the market be? If you were on Dragon's Den, would you invest?


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

vintagecigarman said:


> Originally Posted by FurryCup: How hard can it be to make a true small twin boiler machine with a pid for £6-700.
> 
> Not that hard, I would imagine. But how big would the market be? If you were on Dragon's Den, would you invest?


I think there are too few of us that appreciate coffee sufficiently to spend that sort of money. When I mention my recent second-hand purchase to friends and colleagues they think I am crazy. They are also incredulous at the fresh beans and grinding part. They can taste the difference, yes, but are not prepared to put the time and money into it. Even one of my wife's friends who recognises fresh grinding, although not fresh beans, thinks her £25 electric blade grinder is more than sufficient compared to my Iberital MC2. I nearly mentioned my quest for a Mazzer Super Jolly until I caught Mrs Banish's eye


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

BanishInstant said:


> I They can taste the difference, yes, but are not prepared to put the time and money into it.


That's exactly my experience - and I think that I'm even regarded as being more than a little eccentric for spending so much time and money on coffee.


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## FurryCup (Jun 10, 2010)

If I was starting from fresh you may have a point, but if I'm Gaggia!

If I was selling to the UK only you may have a point, but the world wide market (USA alone) would be massive.

I'm definitely going to make an offer.


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

FurryCup said:


> I'm definitely going to make an offer.


I'm with you on that one!


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## FurryCup (Jun 10, 2010)

DonRJ said:


> Vintage ----> that isone heck of a piece of kit, I fear that the lottery win would be essential as I would have to upgrade my house before installing that beast.
> 
> Furry-----> Have not picked up that comment about the baby twin but would not trust it as the machine is essentially the same as other Gaggias with a thermoblock for steaming and its not a proper dual boiler job cos you cannot steam and brew at the same time or so I have read.
> 
> ...


Hi Don, Yes mate I was aware of that darn thermo block thats why I can't understand why they don't just use 2 regular boilers. Here is part of the review offa Coffeegeek where i got the info on the Baby Twin.

Detailed Commentary

The Gaggia Baby Twin is designed with convenience in mind. The programmable buttons are a plus, and the preinfusion cycle does have a noticeable impact on shot quality. Even though they claim to have "Twin Boilers", the Baby Twin has the standard 3.5oz aluminum boiler that all Gaggias have, but this one also includes a little thing called a thermobloc. The thermobloc is an aluminum block that is heated, and water gets pumped into to create steam. To this extent, it does its job well. With little down time (5 seconds or so) between shots and steam, it is better than all of Gaggia's other consumer offerings.

Unfortunately, they give you the "Turbo Frother" attachment to use this wonderful thermobloc with. This supposedly makes it easier to froth (see coffee geek's detailed guide to milk frothing with a froth assister for more info). That may be the case, but as a former barista, I find this crippling. There's no chance of making microfoam here. With removing the turbo frother, you can get better results, but it's not ideal (and for $700, I don't know about you, but I expect the ideal).

What is ideal however, is the supreme temperature stability of this machine. I am not sure how Gaggia changed the internals of the Baby Twin from other models (namely the Classic), aside from the thermobloc, but the temperature range in the PF is much tighter and higher than all other data I could find on the Classic (182F-190F). Using the styrofoam cup test, the Baby Twin ranged from 194 to 202 F over the course of 10 tests. The higher end (199-202) always occurred immediately after the boiler clicked off, where the lower end (194 - 196) occurred all other times.

I've read that this machine could be an HX alternative. It is not. If you are on the fence about an HX machine, just buy the Expobar Pulsar, its only $100 more than this and you will be infinitely more happy.

If superior shot quality, convenience, and aesthetics are important to you, then this is the machine. If you have dreams of being a latte artist, then look elsewhere.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

I would suspect that the tester got lucky and that particular machine had tighter tolerances on the thermostat range than the average for Gaggias, I could be wrong as I have no facts to back hat statement up. We would have to have a mass Gaggia experiment with everyone running tests to a set formula and then see what variances there were.

The odds of people bothering though are slim, you have to be a sad geekoid at heart to be bothered, damn I have just described myself. No I say, It`s just my enquiring mind, quite normal really, now where did I put that thermometer to check that the water in my kettle is really at 100c when it boils and are we at sea level?

Don


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## FurryCup (Jun 10, 2010)

I like that idea. it would be like the Gadget Show (back on TV begining of August). Now I wonder if Suzy Perry would come along.


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