# Dual boiler recipe or ratio



## Slee (Jan 2, 2011)

Now i have my machine back and the time to make some coffee i wanted to look at coffee and see how i can improve it.

What recipe or ratios do you follow when using the dual boiler ?

I like medium roast beans and usually like a flat white.

I did see a video about a ristretto 20g in 20g out in 20 seconds which i got some good results from (tasted good)

one thing ive never been sure of with the DB is when i press the button it takes 10 or so seconds before the coffee starts to pour. The timer starts immediatly does all this time count towards aiming for the 20 seconds as above ? or is this pre infusion first ?

Thanks!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

From the time you press the button.

Do whatever gets you good results.

The machine doesn't alter the ratio really.


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## Slee (Jan 2, 2011)

Thanks Rob,

Do you follow the stardard 2:1 ratio ?
how many grams do you use in the basket ?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

No I don't follow any ratio. Well I aim for a little more than 1:2 to start with and adjust from there, typically ending up somewhere between a 1:2 and 1:3.

I use an 18g VST and typically dose 18g. Sometimes more, sometimes less depending on density.


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## truegrace (Jan 29, 2014)

I generally go 1:2 with good results. Wasn't sure about the time either, so normally aim for 32-35 secs (based my thinking on a 7 second pre infusion, therefore 25-28 secs with the pump ramping up properly.

As long as it tastes good go with what feels best


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## Slee (Jan 2, 2011)

Thanks both, any of you tried ratios for a Ristretto ?


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## truegrace (Jan 29, 2014)

Not purposely! Have gone 1:1 when dialing in but over 25-20 secs, still drinkable but not coffeey enough for my tastes!


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## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> No I don't follow any ratio. Well I aim for a little more than 1:2 to start with and adjust from there, typically ending up somewhere between a 1:2 and 1:3.
> 
> I use an 18g VST and typically dose 18g. Sometimes more, sometimes less depending on density.


 Hi @Rob1. Does 1:2 - 1:3 brew ratio suffice to put you past sourness into the tasty zone most of the time? In particular with medium or lighter roasts?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Well yes but it depends on grind setting and flow rate/pressure. I haven't had a dark roast in a long time (into second crack) and have generally stayed around 18g:45g for medium or properly developed light roasts I've had. I generally wouldn't go down to 1:2 or less unless I had a dark roast or was dealing with something very soluble at a lighter roast.


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## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

Hi @Rob1, Only spotted your reply now (better late ... 😉) .

That makes sense. Darker roast is more soluble, therefore lower yield.

What about lower altitude coffee? For example medium-roast Brazilian - would you think 18:36 or 18:45 be more likely to succeed? I find these lower altitude coffees the most difficult (like https://www.crankhousecoffee.co.uk/products/santa-colomba). None of the tasting notes, zero sweetness, but lot of saltiness instead, anywhere between 1:1.5 and 1:4.

(I've been using Volvic since October or so)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

PD2020 said:


> Hi @Rob1, Only spotted your reply now (better late ... 😉) .
> 
> That makes sense. Darker roast is more soluble, therefore lower yield.
> 
> ...


 Crank house are not going to be a darker roast and even their " medium so that linked coffee is going to need a diffferent ratio to get sweeter

Try and 1:2 and above without being afraid to go 1:4

I'm think if you looking at altitudes to decide ratios there you are beyond my rationale now. As I wouldn't be going that far down the rabbit hole for solutions .


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## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

Hi Boots. Tried that already. 1:3 gave me lots of salt and harshness. 1:5 was disgustingly bitter, 1:4 had both saltiness and bitterness. At no point was any tasting note present - just defects.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

PD2020 said:


> I find these lower altitude coffees the most difficult (like https://www.crankhousecoffee.co.uk/products/santa-colomba). None of the tasting notes, zero sweetness, but lot of saltiness instead, anywhere between 1:1.5 and 1:4.


 Brazils tend to be low solubility. So I'd either go short ratio (1:1.2 in under 20s) and deliberately under-extract, under salty/sour, or go longer on ratio to extract as much as possible.


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## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

PD2020 said:


> Hi @Rob1. Does 1:2 - 1:3 brew ratio suffice to put you past sourness into the tasty zone most of the time? In particular with medium or lighter roasts?





Rob1 said:


> Well yes but it depends on grind setting and flow rate/pressure. I haven't had a dark roast in a long time (into second crack) and have generally stayed around 18g:45g for medium or properly developed light roasts I've had. (...)


 Ok, so it's possible to consistently brew past sourness at around 1:2.5 with good beans.



MWJB said:


> Brazils tend to be low solubility. So I'd either go short ratio (1:1.2 in under 20s) and deliberately under-extract, under salty/sour, or go longer on ratio to extract as much as possible.


 I get similar issues with other origins too, not just Brazils. Is MaraX+Niche a perfect setup only for underextracted 1:1.2 or long 1:5 shots?

Just trying to understand why my results vary so much from @Rob1.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

PD2020 said:


> Ok, so it's possible to consistently brew past sourness at around 1:2.5 with good beans.
> 
> I get similar issues with other origins too, not just Brazils. Is MaraX+Niche a perfect setup only for underextracted 1:1.2 or long 1:5 shots?
> 
> Just trying to understand why my results vary so much from @Rob1.


 I've had nominally extracted shots pulled by @DavecUK at 18:31g with a Niche (Ethiopian), I seriously doubt the MaraX is a weak link.

But low extractions are always a possibility with Brazil & lighter roasts.

Do you have any other data re. this bean & any beans where you have had better results at 1:2 to 1:3? Any origins that typically give better results, any that you tend to struggle with?

Unless @Rob1 is drinking the same bean, we don't know if your results are different.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

@PD2020

Honestly I've no idea why your shots our salty or disgustingly bitter. I can't say it's something I've experienced without there being something very obviously wrong with the shot. I get the impression from trying to help across various threads and that you generally struggle to get good shots and I've never been able to figure out why after seeing a range of shot times, doses, ratios and coffees you've been through. Apologies if I've mistaken for somebody else?


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