# Calling all Sage Oracle Touch owners - help needed!



## ChrisCohenTV (Nov 22, 2018)

Right,

I feel like I'm losing my mind here!

I've had the Oracle Touch a little over a week now and cannot for the life of me get the pour right.

I'm currently using these beans:

https://shop.darkwoodscoffee.co.uk/collections/award-winning-coffees/products/common-grounds-barrel-aged-beans?variant=9881228574764

They're fresh, only opened this morning.

I have the grind set to 39 which seems very coarse to me, but it's the only grind level that seems to give a good looking pour, but the end result still tastes sour. I'm using the double basket and pouring a double shot. Here's a video of the pour in case there's anything obvious I'm getting wrong:






I'm really at a loss now as to what to do. Every post I've read here seems to set the grind around 20-25 and never any higher, which makes sense to me - but the coffee just doesn't flow properly on mine at that grind level. Could it be the bean?? I've tried two different beans now, both from Darkwood Coffees and they've both performed the same in terms of the extraction.

Does anything look majorly off to you folks? Any help would be hugely appreciated!


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

That grind looks waaaay too course!

But the pour is slow - would expect it to blast through with a grind like that.

Have you checked the extraction pressure?


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## ChrisCohenTV (Nov 22, 2018)

I don't think the Oracle Touch gives you an option to change the pressure..


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Is it not possible to get a visual indication of pressure on the screen?


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## ChrisCohenTV (Nov 22, 2018)

lake_m said:


> Is it not possible to get a visual indication of pressure on the screen?


 Not that I'm aware of, no, although I'm very new to the machine.

I'm considering an RMA as this just seems ludicrous. How a bean has to be ground THAT coarsely for Espresso and still comes out tasting sour is beyond me. Has to be an issue with the water pressure from the Oracle, surely?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Could be. A read out of the pressure would give a pretty good indication of an issue with the machine I.e if it's losing pressure somewhere. For a course grind like that the extraction would just p*ss through normally.


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## ChrisCohenTV (Nov 22, 2018)

lake_m said:


> Could be. A read out of the pressure would give a pretty good indication of an issue with the machine I.e if it's losing pressure somewhere. For a course grind like that the extraction would just p*ss through normally.


 Exactly my thinking. I've spoken to John Lewis who have agreed to an RMA on Saturday morning. At least then I'll have another machine to compare it to. In the meantime, hopefully an Oracle owner on here might be able to shed some light..


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## Rossy100 (Dec 28, 2019)

Any update on this?

I have had my Oracle Touch for a couple of weeks now and have to set the grind setting to about 33 to get a poor similar to that in your first video. Going to try a different bean this week to see if that is different. Taste is ok, with maybe a hint of sourness, but not sure if that just the bean flavour.


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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

I do tend to find the grind is very bean-sensitive. Once you get something that's "ok" then play around as there is no perfect setting... Highly recommend HasBean subscription for bean supplies ?


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## Karlos69 (Oct 24, 2019)

Does this machine do the tamping for you?

If so, are you able to alter it at all?

Also, do they have white glove service with this machine? Don't they set it all up and explain how it works?


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## Mr Binks (Mar 21, 2019)

lake_m said:


> That grind looks waaaay too course!
> 
> But the pour is slow - would expect it to blast through with a grind like that.
> 
> Have you checked the extraction pressure?


 With a grind that course it's almost like it's using a pressurised basket for it not to be a gusher.


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## Rossy100 (Dec 28, 2019)

TobyAnscombe said:


> I do tend to find the grind is very bean-sensitive. Once you get something that's "ok" then play around as there is no perfect setting... Highly recommend HasBean subscription for bean supplies


Thanks. Working through trying different beans...... originally tried Pact (fruit and nut) as they gave some when bought machine...... but today loaded in some from a local roaster called Mini and Mighty. Also got some beans from Mancoco - but they were roasted on 2nd Jan so will give another few days before using.

Interestingly used same grind setting (32/33) on both Pact and M&M beans.

It was only after reading earlier in this post (where thought might be a fault with machine) and that even when in store they had Pact beans at 26 setting - that I maybe got a little concerned!


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## Rossy100 (Dec 28, 2019)

Karlos69 said:


> Does this machine do the tamping for you?
> If so, are you able to alter it at all?
> Also, do they have white glove service with this machine? Don't they set it all up and explain how it works?


Yes machine does tamping but can't be altered. Unfortunately there is no longer the white glove service.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Not used to an oracle but am used to the sound of the grinders. That doesn't sound amiss too me. Rather hard to judge grind coarseness via a video. The machines are similar internally to the dual boiler. I'd expect flow to start at the end of the 6 secs infusion and it does.

A few things strike me.

The pour is uneven from each spout - the machine isn't level

A grinder step change of 3 is a significant change. The 2nd video is just short of choking the machine.

Beans from that area are known to be fruity and something is done to them according to the write up that enhances that. Fruity can be read as acidic. Coffee is and that's good but an excess isn't. Roast not stated and are they fresh roasted or not?

There are a couple of factors about Sage grinders. Like all it's a good idea to waste some grinds each time the setting is changed. Circa 5g is enough on these. When adjusting coarser it's best to go too coarse and then fine to what you want to set. Also a 3 step change finer without the grinder running is a lot. One step at a time should be ok but many commercial grinder manuals and Sage engineers will tell people that the grinder must be running when it's set finer. I doubt if this has caused any problems but generally it's best to tune one step at a time.

I'm inclined to think bizarre beans roasted and treated who knows when. I'd suggest using different and fresh roaster and a blend you like the sound of. Blends are easier to brew. If it's new some Oracles have had to be replaced. One thing you should check is the weight of grinds in the basket. It needs measuring to better than 1g to be sure so scales that register 0.1g are required. These are also a much better way of checking shot sizes than shot glasses. Some that can measure a max of 3 or 5kg are ok as these can tare the portafilter weight. Best go for slim ones so that they can be used on the machine. Errors in dose might cause this sort of problem. If so the machine will probably have to be replaced.

John

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## ChrisCohenTV (Nov 22, 2018)

Rossy100 said:


> Any update on this?
> 
> I have had my Oracle Touch for a couple of weeks now and have to set the grind setting to about 33 to get a poor similar to that in your first video. Going to try a different bean this week to see if that is different. Taste is ok, with maybe a hint of sourness, but not sure if that just the bean flavour.


 I returned it. The new machine, with the same bean worked on a far lower grind setting (currently 29) so it was definitely a water pressure issue with the first machine.


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## ChrisCohenTV (Nov 22, 2018)

ajohn said:


> Not used to an oracle but am used to the sound of the grinders. That doesn't sound amiss too me. Rather hard to judge grind coarseness via a video. The machines are similar internally to the dual boiler. I'd expect flow to start at the end of the 6 secs infusion and it does.
> 
> A few things strike me.
> 
> ...


 Thanks so much for this incredibly detailed reply.

I tried a PACT house bean on this same machine and again, the grind setting had to be around 39 to get a decent pour and even then, the coffee tasted horrendous. In the end I returned the machine, swapping it for another of the exact same model. The results were night and day. Same bean in the new machine was set to a grind of 29, pours evenly and after around 8 seconds and tastes superb. There was definitely an issue with the water pressure in the first machine. So glad I swapped them out as I was starting to think I'd wasted a LOT of money!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

You can't take much notice of grinder setting numbers as they will vary. They can also be set up incorrectly when they are made. In your case I suspect it's the grinds dosing. They have had odd problems with that. When water goes into the grinds they expand so if the dose is too high expansion limits flow and a coarser grind has to be used. It's even ok if the grinds just about expand to hit the shower screen but too much of that will give the problem you had.

John

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## Danish coffee connoisseur (Jun 22, 2020)

Interesting conversation on this topic. I bought the sage Oracle a few weeks ago and have so far used 500 grams of freshly roasted espress mix coffee beans from a Danish high end coffee house with no good results. Tried every possible adjustment. Here was my findings:

the factory setting of the coffee double basket contents was 26 grams, no matter grind setting
coffee only poured to around 50 grams when grind setting was 37 or higher - taste was not perfect.
Changing tamp pressure to 1 made no visible change
increasing pre-infusion pressure made the coffee drip earlier at 5-6 seconds, but did not increase the yield after 30 second or improve the final result
basically only extremely coarse grind settings could produce a cup in respectable size but sour.

After complaining I received a reply from Sage support in Denmark, informing me of the possibility of changing the basket contents by manually removing the tamper and adjust a little screw inside the grindhead. By lowering this screw, it was possible to change the dose to appr. 21 grams instead of the 26 grams, but it did take a bit of fiddling. Unfortunately this did not change the result.

I am beginning to think it is a water pressure issue as well. Waiting for a new reply from Sage.


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## Sorenaltmann (Dec 29, 2020)

I had my sage some months now and it has worked well with some beans from the local supermarket. But for Christmas my wife decided to gift me some extra expensive beans from a local coffee house here in Copenhagen.

Not good results so far.

The grinder is all the way up to the max coarseness (45), the coffe starts to flow after around 8-9 seconds, but the volume produced after 30 seconds is very low and the taste is a bit bitter.

So, from reading above, it could be the pressure ? Does that mean I need a new machine or is there a setting I can play with ? I assume it is nothing as simple as de-scaling, cleaning etc ?


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

Are you making espresso? If so you should be grinding much, much finer. Not sure if the grinder in the Oracle is the same as the Sage Smart Grinder Pro, but the espresso range on that is from 12 down to 1. I usually find myself grinding between 12 an 10 on mine


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## Rossy100 (Dec 28, 2019)

dutchy101 said:


> Are you making espresso? If so you should be grinding much, much finer. Not sure if the grinder in the Oracle is the same as the Sage Smart Grinder Pro, but the espresso range on that is from 12 down to 1. I usually find myself grinding between 12 an 10 on mine


 Have you also checked the grind setting on inside of burrs? If you remove the beans and then the burrs (as if cleaning), remove the metal 'hanger' and will then see red numbers to change the setting. It could be you have this set too fine. This made a massive for me when I first got my machine...... and incidentally was not mentioned anywhere in manual!!


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## Craig Hall (Mar 20, 2021)

I've had my Sage Oracle for 3 years. Other than adjusting the grind, I've always kept the other settings the same. Always had a good pour and a good creme. However, in the last few days, the espresso only starts pouring at about 20 seconds. All settings have remained the same. Same coffee beans etc.

Do you think this is a water pressure issue also?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Might be worth taking the lid off and looking for leaks but to make that much difference I'd have thought water would be coming out of the machine.

Internal settings can do this sort of thing. The machine probably has a menu item to reset to defaults. I use a DB so not sure what has to be done on Oracles. Might be hold one cup and and then power at the same time. Something like rst pops up. Or go through infusion settings.

My DB has done near 2,500 shots and a lot of water for americano. Pump still reaches pressure but shows other signs of wear. Water seems to be draining back out of pipework when the tank is low. So when I flush the usual 2 or 4 sec for water to flow gets longer than usual.

 Rough sum 360l water for americano.


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