# Venting the Europiccola



## jt196 (Jan 4, 2012)

Folks - been using the EP for about 6 weeks now and I'm still having some difficulty getting the shot volume consistent, I think it's because I'm not venting the air out of the group head (if that's what it's called in a lever machine). Today I poured a shot with 14g in the basket - that only arrived at about 21g of coffee in the cup. The first part of the pour was very soft and it felt like I was compressing air with the piston rather than pushing liquid through the coffee.

It was fine by the way, but a few days before I got easily over 30g. The boiler is running at 0.75 PSI so that's not a problem. I'm guessing that it's something to do with when I tighten the basket up - and that flushing out any air. My process is:


Lift the lever up till water is coming out

Lower it till the water just stops

Attach the portafilter

Partially lift the lever and tighten the PF at the same time

Fully lift the lever for preinfusion

Wait 10 seconds

Pull shot


I'm assuming that there's a sort of trick with step 4 where you're able to use the flow of water to purge the air out of the head without it escaping round the sides of the PF, but I can't quite get it. Am I missing something? This does seem to me quite important - the air cushion above the water you're pushing through must have an effect on shot consistency and the like.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Is it a post-millennium model?

Dunno whether they behave differently than my '73 LaPav.

Here it's as simple as lifting the lever, waiting until it's fully flooded then slowly pulling the shot in one even go. Easily get 15g in / 30g out, consistently.

No fancy pants extracurricular maneuvers necessary.


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

Have you checked the piston and shaft seals lately?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Are you grinding too fine?

They say that, the right grind is the one where drips come out (or you can see it coming through tons naked PF) just when the lever is up, without pulling it. Try that, and then tighten a notch, and see how it goes.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Are you overloading the basket? If you have a premilenium with the standard double basket 14g will be too much.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Nopapercup said:


> Are you overloading the basket? If you have a premilenium with the standard double basket 14g will be too much.


now that you mention it, my 15g are in a bottomless PF from Blue Star Coffee - basket that came with it is said to hold 15g I believe...

The reported spongy responsemy indeed be air trapped somewhere. Gaskets/seals are all good?


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## jt196 (Jan 4, 2012)

Thanks for the responses folks -

@Hasi it's a post-mil EP - 2003 I think. The basket is a VST 14g basket - so I don't think I'm overloading it. I haven't delved into checking the seals yet and it may be that they've never been changed in it's whole life. I'll have a look into getting a kit and getting that sorted - only so many hours in the day and I was looking for a quick fix.

@MediumRoastSteam I've heard different things about the grind - some folks on the Facebook group say you're best off setting your grinder till it chokes, then easing up a step or so on your grinder. I'm assuming that if the grind is too fine, it chokes the air, is that right?

Well this tells me unless I'm way out with the grind, there's either something wrong with my preinfusion time, or a dodgy seal in the machine. Barring any issues with my grind, I'll play around with the preinfusion and if that doesn't help, I'll get the seals changed.

Cheers for the help!


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

jt196 said:


> Thanks for the responses folks -
> 
> @Hasi it's a post-mil EP - 2003 I think. The basket is a VST 14g basket - so I don't think I'm overloading it. I haven't delved into checking the seals yet and it may be that they've never been changed in it's whole life. I'll have a look into getting a kit and getting that sorted - only so many hours in the day and I was looking for a quick fix.
> 
> ...


My money would bw on the 16 year old seals.

Laissez les bons temps rouler


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

VST 14g for Pavoni? Are you sure?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I'd replace the seals. At least the piston seals and the group to PF gasket.

Second, try pumping the lever without actually dispensing water. This should get rid of the air in the group and out back into the boiler. Then, quick flush, raise the lever half way, Lee there, lock the PF and off you go. See if that helps.


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## jt196 (Jan 4, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> VST 14g for Pavoni? Are you sure?


No I'm not totally sure, just checked - it was a 14g IMS basket from Espresso Shop.


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## jt196 (Jan 4, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I'd replace the seals. At least the piston seals and the group to PF gasket.
> 
> Second, try pumping the lever without actually dispensing water. This should get rid of the air in the group and out back into the boiler. Then, quick flush, raise the lever half way, Lee there, lock the PF and off you go. See if that helps.


Are you talking about what I mentioned in steps 1/2 - raising the handle till the water comes, then lowering it till it stops? Or are you talking about doing this before attaching the PF? A couple of pumps before the water runs through - doesn't letting water come out the group get rid of all the air?


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## jt196 (Jan 4, 2012)

ashcroc said:


> My money would bw on the 16 year old seals.


They may have been replaced but I've no idea as I only got the machine in December. Difficult to tell, but really not a bad idea though, I'll get on the case.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

jt196 said:


> Are you talking about what I mentioned in steps 1/2 - raising the handle till the water comes, then lowering it till it stops? Or are you talking about doing this before attaching the PF? A couple of pumps before the water runs through - doesn't letting water come out the group get rid of all the air?


Pumps so water doest come out. It helps warm up the group and get rid of air. You do so without the PF in place.

Try it and see what works out for you.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

Am I right in that these later models don't need the false pressure being vented ?

Could it be whatever that has been added to stop you doing the above , not working .


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Haven't bothered with any of this, yet 

On my way-pre-Millennium model it's only about getting water to boil, switching to low, flushing 250ml in one go with empty PF attached so it takes up heat, prepare, grind, tamp, attach PF, raise lever, let it fill, slowly pull down and enjoy the show.

That or go James Bond all the way


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Hasi said:


> switching to low, flushing 250ml in one go with empty PF attached so it takes up heat


Most likely any air in the group went with your flush.

Or you can do the pumps to warm up the group without being wasteful. 250ml seems to me a lot of water, specially considering when they come from a bottle, in my case.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Ive noticed a change in shot volume with the pav results from the following

1 Grind

2 Tamp

3 Water level

4 how long you hold the piston up for the pre infusion

5 amount of pressure on the lever

6 Temp of the water

Its part of what makes it a challenge - fun for some and a nightmare for others


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Most likely any air in the group went with your flush.
> 
> Or you can do the pumps to warm up the group without being wasteful. 250ml seems to me a lot of water, specially considering when they come from a bottle, in my case.


Well yes, we have nice tap water and a BWT Aqa Smart filter installed at mains inlet.

Still, with enough cleanliness applied you could make a cup of tea with the flush water 

But I hear you, pumping just at the top of lever ROM will allow just enough hot water in so it heats up the group.

How quickly does heat transfer to PF in that case?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I just measured. It took 4 minutes for the PF to warm up via heat transfer from the group. If I want just to go ahead, I'd warm up the PF with water from the kettle, as I use that to warm up the cup too.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Hasi said:


> How quickly does heat transfer to PF in that case?


I just measured. It took 4 minutes for the PF to warm up via heat transfer from the group. If I want just to go ahead, I'd warm up the PF with water from the kettle, as I use that to warm up the cup too.

No bottled water wasted in the process.


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## jt196 (Jan 4, 2012)

jimbojohn55 said:


> Ive noticed a change in shot volume with the pav results from the following
> 
> 1 Grind
> 
> ...


Yep, that's what I noticed - lots of variables. 1 (unless I'm mixing different types of coffee up), 2, 3 and 6 are normally all the same when I've been brewing with the EP. I've been varying #4 and #5. 4 by not much between 10-25 seconds or so. Pressure I tend to gauge based on how quickly the coffee is coming through.

What's the deal with Mulberry bark paper - taking artisanal coffee to the next level?


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

whats Mulberry bark paper?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Hasi said:


> whats Mulberry bark paper?


Is it a bag made of fine bark, which costs £££? (Sorry, couldn't help myself)


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

[quote

What's the deal with Mulberry bark paper - taking artisanal coffee to the next level?

it is - helps me get Zen while I clean my group - some say that kitchen roll is just as good but to be honest it doesn't have the whole spiritual fulfilment of knowing your group is Mulberry fresh.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I usually use extra strong toilet roll.


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## jt196 (Jan 4, 2012)

jimbojohn55 said:


> [quote
> 
> it is - helps me get Zen while I clean my group - some say that kitchen roll is just as good but to be honest it doesn't have the whole spiritual fulfilment of knowing your group is Mulberry fresh.


Well, it takes all sorts to make the world go round I guess


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

This is the master Barista Mr Shin making his own traditional Mulberry paper for cleaning groups, pour over filters and aeropressbfilters


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I use magic group cleaner sooooo effective


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## jt196 (Jan 4, 2012)

Well this thread has taken a turn. Magic Group Cleaner? The only thing I can find is Magic Grout cleaner on Google


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Fairy dust solves all my oily problems.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Hasi said:


> Fairy dust solves all my oily problems.


I bet you have one of those stickers on the back of your car


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

jimbojohn55 said:


> I bet you have one of those stickers on the back of your car


not yet... but I hear you can source one or two if I provide the graphics...


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

This thread was going so well... until an unrelated question was asked... and everyone got silly


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> This thread was going so well... until an unrelated question was asked... and everyone got silly


Sometimes a thread needs to let off steam


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> This thread was going so well... until an unrelated question was asked... and everyone got silly


it's very CFUKish isn't it?

But what else would you expect from heavy coffee drinkers than they started chattering and just couldn't stop...


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## jt196 (Jan 4, 2012)

To be fair, it was myself (the OP) who asked the unrelated question, so I guess I more than anybody had a right to do that...

Just going to send an email to that Korean espresso dude the paper looks amazing


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