# first shot



## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

Hi,

I've seen this posted before but cant find it.

How many grams of ground coffee do i want to be adding to the pf?

Probably should have added, i have two 2oz shot glasses with lines for 1 and 1.5oz.


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## BillyHoyle (Feb 12, 2013)

Anything between 7-20 grams depending on the basket you're using.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

frustin said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've seen this posted before but cant find it.
> 
> How many grams of ground coffee do i want to be adding to the pf?


Start with 14-16grms. Whatever you go for, stick with until you are getting good results. You can determine shot output by weight or volume. For weight, multiply your dose by 1.6 to give weight output. You will need scales for this. Volume-wise, go for no more than 60ml output. For both approaches, extraction time should be around 27 secs. Adjust grind until you are hitting volume/weight in 27 secs. What grinder are you using?


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## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

I have a large catering pack of coffee to test with. Grinder is a MC2.

i loaded the pf with 19grams of grinds. It took 27 secs to fill two shot glasses to the 1oz mark. I marked it to the coffee level rather than the top of the crema level.

I'm using a basket that has loads of holes in the bottom.

result: waaay to bitter.

What now


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## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

latest progress: 15grams into 2oz (plus or minus a fraction) including crema @ 27secs

Much less bitter. Its crap coffee though so that'll make a big difference right?

Presumably i can reduce the grams and get less bitterness? or just use better coffee?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

frustin said:


> latest progress: 15grams into 2oz (plus or minus a fraction) including crema @ 27secs
> 
> Much less bitter. Its crap coffee though so that'll make a big difference right?
> 
> Presumably i can reduce the grams and get less bitterness? or just use better coffee?


It's false economy to use poor quality beans. Better to get some fresh beans say, from Hasbean. Your dosing, extraction and times seem OK - try it with fresh beans but be warned that you will have to retune dose and grind.


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## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

cant i continue using the same dos: 15g and then alter grind? or is it potentially going to end up with bitterness until i reduce?


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## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

With the new beans (got a bag of Jailbreak), cant i continue using the same dos: 15g and then alter grind? or is it potentially going to end up with bitterness until i reduce?

I'm worried i'm going to waste my new beans trying to get it right all over again


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Yes, you can continue to use the same dose. You may need to try a couple of grams either side.

See how you get on with the new coffee.

What grinder and machine do you have?


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Stick wit the same dose. Bitterness does not come from simply having more coffee, but over extracting any amount of coffee you use.


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## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

Glenn said:


> Yes, you can continue to use the same dose. You may need to try a couple of grams either side.
> 
> See how you get on with the new coffee.
> 
> What grinder and machine do you have?


Grinder is MC2 and Gaggia Classic.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

frustin said:


> With the new beans (got a bag of Jailbreak), cant i continue using the same dos: 15g and then alter grind? or is it potentially going to end up with bitterness until i reduce?
> 
> I'm worried i'm going to waste my new beans trying to get it right all over again


Think you will find your fresh beans a revelation taste-wise but you will have to use them to fine tune your set up. I have just done the same myself tonight - use crap beans to get in the ball park. When I used my fresh high quality beans, I had to back the grind off to get same extraction in same time.


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## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

"back the grind off" meaning you had to make it more coarse?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

frustin said:


> "back the grind off" meaning you had to make it more coarse?


Use your above settings with the fresh beans - it's unlikely they will be right straight off. You'll probably find that your new beans don't quite as fine level of grind.


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## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

I opened my packet of Jailbreak. The other beans are very stale! The difference in smell is huge.

i put 15 grams in the puck, very lightly tamped and water doesnt come out now.









On my old stale beans it worked fine.


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## Danm (Jan 26, 2012)

So you need to decrease resistance in the puck....

Grind coarser. I dont have an MC2 so can't comment on the adjustment unfortunately.


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## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

right i reduced it right down and it started coming out, however i've now used up all my jailbreak that i bought and not had a single espresso from it because it still needs calibrating.









too late now until next week.


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## Danm (Jan 26, 2012)

But at least your now in the zone for next time









Not easy this espresso lark


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## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

just ordered another 500g should get it this time.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

The issue was you were using rubbish stale beans and moved to lovely fresh ones. The difference in required grind will be quite large between these two. Once you have your Hasbean dialled in there will only be minor tweaks when changing to another freshly roasted bag.


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## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

yeah i didnt appreciate that until now though. proper false economy dialing in last night. But at least i know what i'm doing now with all the equipment.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

frustin said:


> right i reduced it right down and it started coming out, however i've now used up all my jailbreak that i bought and not had a single espresso from it because it still needs calibrating.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a real shame but as others have said, the difference between fresh and stale 'long life??' supermarket beans is like chalk and cheese. Fresh beans give so much more flavour and aroma-wise but are harder to calibrate as they are not dried out like stale beans. There's an obvious temptation to get to the sweet spot as quickly as possible which is understandable but the best advice is to take it slow and be methodical. Don't play around with your dose until you know you've got your grind right in relation to extraction time whether you go by volume - 60mls output for a double or by weight - using a ratio of 1.6. Using this ration, a dose of 14grm would give you 1.6x14grm = 22.4ml which is clearly a lot stronger. It's a matter of personal preference. Whatever extraction method you use be it volume or weight, stick to it. Use a timer to time total extraction - aim for 27sec give or take a couple of seconds max. Don't be tempted to over-tamp. Fresh beans require less tamping pressure. It's a good idea to keep notes - that way you won't forget what works best for your set up and for which beans.


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## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

Thanks, i got all that. i'm going by volume, 15g, extracting 2oz over 27secs. Tamping at 30lb (i used my bathroom scales to check) with a single twist.


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## repeat (Nov 14, 2009)

It happens. I usually buy a couple of bags of new (to me) coffee so I can mess around. The more experience you get the quicker your judgement. Therefore less waste.


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## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

the mc2 grinds well, i get my 15g worth almost each time, but the coarseness adjustment is not a fine art, its a turn and see what happens.


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## repeat (Nov 14, 2009)

Yes your judgement on how much to turn to get the desired slow down or speed up will improve.


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## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

at one point it was so coarse i was getting cappuccino espresso shots.







Got another 500g of jailbreak on the way.


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## repeat (Nov 14, 2009)

I usually experiment with cheaper alternatives  but you are almost there! Good luck. I think you should market your espressiccino!


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## frustin (Feb 10, 2013)

new beans arrived today! Has Bean Jailbreak.

I've been adjusting to 14g @ 27secs. Including the crema it hits the 1oz mark on two cups using the basket with lots of holes covering the full surface area, in the bottom (is that called a double basket?).

Is the espresso supposed to be 2oz including crema?

I'm not sure but I think it still tastes a bit strong, though not bitter. Is it naturally a strong blend?


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