# Which first coffee?



## AliC (Jan 9, 2014)

Hello

I'm as new to chat forum things as I am to home espresso making, so please forgive me if I have put this post in the wrong section.

I am about to invest in a Fracino Cherub, which means no money left (or kitchen counter space) for a proper grinder and I won't throw my money away on a rubbish cheap one.

So I was wondering if you could recommend any preground coffee that I could start my learning journey on. I enjoy Lavazza Qualita Oro in my filter machine but wonder if it will be finely ground enough for an espresso machine.

I'm pretty happy to buy stuff in from specialist coffee merchants if it makes the difference to get a respectable grind. Otherwise my nearest supermarket is Waitrose, othetwise it's Sainsburys if I fancy a really long walk.

Thanks in advance for your help.

AC


----------



## photojonny (Jun 9, 2013)

I suspect the consensus would be putting pre-ground in that machine would be like putting lighter fluid in a Porsche. It would really be a waste of time. You just won't get decent espresso using preground no matter what the machine. I guess the advice would be buy a cheaper machine and a decent grinder, e.g. a Gaggia Classic and a Eureka Mignon or save until you can afford a grinder to go with the Cherub even if it's second hand. If I could only put preground in my cheap second hand Gaggia I wouldn't bother. The usual rule is grinder is (much) more important than the machine.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Are you buying the machine new or second hand?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Hi there and welcome.

How long are you intending to go without a grinder ? If for ever or a long time I would suggest a re think .

in reality you won't be able to make really great espresso until you have a grinder . My personal advice would be to buy a smaller machine and put some money towards a grinder capable of doing espresso or a hand grinder at the very least .

Pre ground supermarket beans will not be fresh or grind specific for your machine .

a fracino machine is well capable , as are others like a gaggia classic . But the most important thing to making coffee is the ingredient you use . Fresh ground , fresh roasted coffee. Pre ground will start to loose its flavour , very , very quickly. And anything bought pre ground from a supermarket will not be doing your potential new machine justice.

Hope this helps .


----------



## AliC (Jan 9, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> Are you buying the machine new or second hand?


Had been planning on new, but might need to reconsider.

How about hand grinders? Please forgive me for I know (next to) nothing....


----------



## photojonny (Jun 9, 2013)

I had a hand grinder until I bought an electric one. It will produce excellent coffee however to grind fine enough for espresso takes a long time and a lot of effort. Around 5 mins constant grinding for one drink.

I read my first post back and it seemed a bit blunt, sorry. It would just be a lot of money to spend for what would be disappointing coffee without freshly ground beans.


----------



## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

There is a Cherub for sale on here used message them see what you can do regarding price and then invest the remainder you had planned on spending new on a used grinder, again, from here and you'll be fine. If it means waiting a few weeks do so. good luck and any questions ask. good luck.

Cherub

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?13727-Fracino-Cherub-4-Months-Old-for-Sale-or-Swap judging by the new prices I would get on this asap


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

AliC said:


> Had been planning on new, but might need to reconsider.
> 
> How about hand grinders? Please forgive me for I know (next to) nothing....


I started out with a hand grinder, it can be done but it's really hard. I think I got through a kg of beans without producing a decent shot as well as developing RSA.







it taking the extra 5 minutes to do the shot also adds to the disappointment.

The main problem with hand grinders is that there are such big jumps (steps) between the grind settings. You do need to invest in a decent grinder for espresso. Entry level would be something like an MC2 which go for about £80 used, although I did see one up for £70 recently.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I'd buy a second hand machine and put the difference towards a grinder. You can get something like an Iberital MC2 for £70 used.


----------



## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

I'd second Jeebsys suggestion. If you start by using pre-ground you'll be disappointed and frustrated. Buying from a supermarket means you'll miss out on all the wonderful on-line roasters who can be cheaper and most definitely better. They will have a bean to suit your pallet and you get the fun of trying then all to find your favourite roaster/bean.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Initial reviews of the Made by Knock "Hausgrind" hand grinder seem positive, also the Lido 2 appears to be imminent, there's also the Rosco from Australia - these will grind for espresso, considerably faster than grinders like the Porlex or Hario, but you may need to make significant physical effort at espresso fine grinds, but if you can do it, it'll be faster than 5 minutes. ~£120-140-ish?

Honestly, I don't get the logic of buying a lesser machine...you will probably upgrade later anyway, you seem to have identified the Fracino as within your budget, go for it. Maybe look for a compact 2nd hand electric grinder on the forum for sale area.

You actually have nothing to lose (other than the price of the coffee & your time) by trying the coffee you like in your new machine, as long as you understand the limitations. You know now it won't give best possible results automatically...but then, neither will any other coffee - they all need dialling in. You may also find the Lavazza loses flavour quickly and after a couple of days you are throwing out half bags...this may not bother you (it's relatively cheap)?

Maybe worth trying to see if Bella Barista's E61 portafilters for their line of 7g pods will fit the machine you are after? I suspect that you will outgrow these quickly, but you'd be up & running & able to get familiar with protocols like weighing shots & establishing brew ratios. Most of the specialty roasters mentioned here do sell preground, so consider these too.

That's as close as I can get to the answer to your specific question...but as you see, the real answer to the whole situation is that, it is very likely that you will buy an electric grinder at some point...soon.


----------



## AliC (Jan 9, 2014)

MWJB said:


> the real answer to the whole situation is that, it is very likely that you will buy an electric grinder at some point...soon.


I think that is what I am looking at, considering all the responses I've had. Thanks everyone.

I had seen the Churub on the forum but too far to collect in person. May be a courier job and then scout around for a second hand grtinder.

So long as I can get some decent foamed milk going, I'll keep the Good Lady Wife and bambini happy and maybe they won't notice the grinder appearing next to the toaster...

Thanks again to everyone for the benefit of their experience. You are saving me from some expensive mistakes


----------

