# Freezing



## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

I am obviously aware of the differing opinions regarding freezing beans but I wanted to relate my recent experience.

Monsooned malabar roasted 1st June so they arrived here 2nd maybe 3rd.

Circumstances dictated that I would not need these until mid August at the earliest so the sealed bag was double taped over the one-way valve and put in the freezer along side a part bag that I had been using.

Restarted using the part bag mid August, my jet lagged taste buds noticed a difference immediately but it took me another day to decide they were not good enough.

The full bag was taken out and defrosted, shot as usual was weighed in/out and extraction looked normal.

Tasted thin, that's about the only way I have found to describe it, it had flavour a slight bitterness but it was thin. As I've not tasted stale beans I wondered if these were just that.

I went out and got some freshly roasted beans to enjoy. Normality reigns

I will now rethink my freezing policy.

Ian


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience. I think I'd seen the suggestion that you tape over the valve and put the bag inside another bag but don't know if that'd help. I haven't yet tried freezing beans but it's good to get some ideas if needed.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Hmm, I froze my DSOL beans but putting the bags inside ziplocks (original bags don't have valves on), putting the bags back inside the delivery boxes and wrapping newspaper round them. Then double bagging the lot in carrier bags. main aim is to stop damp getting through when freezing. I put them in the fast freeze part of the deep freezer. Don't know what they will be like when defrosted, will have to get a bag out to try when I'm needing another.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Isn't moisture sucked out of food/drink during the freezing process? If so, would having multiple barriers slow down the time it takes to become frozen?

The suggestion to tape over the one-way valve plus possibly use a ziplock bag is to prevent the beans possibly picking up odours from other items in the freezer, or so I was lead to believe?


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

DoubleShot said:


> Isn't moisture sucked out of food/drink during the freezing process? If so, would having multiple barriers slow down the time it takes to become frozen?
> 
> The suggestion to tape over the one-way valve plus possibly use a ziplock bag is to prevent the beans possibly picking up odours from other items in the freezer, or so I was lead to believe?


I wouldn't have thought there'd be much moisture in roast beans? I didn't want any dampness getting to them while they froze, as I had to defrost (scrape ice from) the inside of the freezer.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

A couple of bits of info on the subject of freezing beans I found interesting...

"To be clear... Freezing removes moisture from items and dries them out to some degree as the moisture is removed as it comes to the surface.

Getting moisture in is a little misleading as what actually happens is that any ambient water can ice, and damage food as it expands.

Moisture loss, or ice crystals evaporating from the surface area of a product, produces freezer burn-a grainy, brownish spot where the tissues become dry and tough. This surface freeze-dried area is very likely to develop off flavors. Packaging designed specifically for freezing foods will prevent freezer burn.

So best to seal to protect water moving both ways! Athough the exact chemistry is quite hard to articulate as it depends on how quickly things are frozen, etc etc etc."

(thanks to Steve7 who is the author of above work)

1. Freezing is not good for coffee's freshness because it causes some of the flavorful coffee oils to break down. Furthermore, if the packaging isn't airtight, then the porous, hydrophilic ("water-loving") coffee beans will begin to taste like the inside of your freezer. (Yuck!)

If necessary, airtight foil or heat-sealed film bags of coffee may be stored for up to one month in the freezer.

2. It has been a long time belief & practice that freezing coffee is the best way to maintain the flavor & taste. This only applies to whole beans; not the ground coffee. Whole beans naturally preserve the flavor by keeping the inside of the bean from exposure to the elements. As soon as the bean is ground, it begins to lose its essence, flavor and vitality. By storing beans whole you can preserve the rich aromatic coffee taste you expect & enjoy. There are many experts who disagree with freezing coffee, citing that a frozen coffee bean causes the cell walls on the outer layer of the bean to burst. This changes the molecular structure and the coffee goes stale quickly. Gasses are released, moisture and oils evaporate. In addition, people do not thaw coffee properly after freezing & moisture from the condensation will also cause damage to the bean.


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## evoman (May 13, 2014)

To me the comparison is really keeping a bag in the freezer for a few weeks as I work through an order, versus that same bag sitting in a cupboard. Given that freezer temperatures can greatly slows down oxidation, which is typically what we are worried about, my decision has been to err on the side of freezer. Coffee is relatively low in moisture and so it is not clear whether crystals can even form in the beans given the high content of dissolved compounds (which lower freezing temp). Mosts non-oxidation breakdown processes will also be strongly temperature dependent. Oils will have very low freezing temps, so I don't see how a freezer is going to do much damage (and I can see why it would be an improvement given that it slows degredation processes).

So comments about how freezing is bad for various aspects needs to be held in relation to the changes that occur at room temp.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

evoman said:


> To me the comparison is really keeping a bag in the freezer for a few weeks as I work through an order, versus that same bag sitting in a cupboard. So comments about how freezing is bad for various aspects needs to be held in relation to the changes that occur at room temp.


I see this sort of stuff come up on all the forums from time to time over the years. My view is similar to yours, perhaps with an exception...

Freezing beans is almost always compared to beans stored in a cupboard and almost never compared to coffee roasted and rested e.g. get beans fresh roasted, freeze them same day...2 months later roast another batch (exactly the same), then get the beans out of the freezer...Rest both packs for 7 days then do a comparison. I have done this over the years and in all cases the freezer beans were inferior in taste.

I accept that beans stored in a cupboard will stale and freezing may make the best of a bad job...but overall it's better to avoid freezing if you can. Let's be honest, if freezing worked really well, most small roasters would be freezing their coffee after roasting and posting it out from frozen. Thus extending the life of the roasted product and improving freshness and taste for the customer...but they don't do they?


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Let's be honest, if freezing worked really well, most small roasters would be freezing their coffee after roasting and posting it out from frozen. Thus extending the life of the roasted product and improving freshness and taste for the customer...but they don't do they?

An relevant observation that I hadn't considered.

Ian


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## gcogger (May 18, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> Let's be honest, if freezing worked really well, most small roasters would be freezing their coffee after roasting and posting it out from frozen. Thus extending the life of the roasted product and improving freshness and taste for the customer...but they don't do they?


I don't believe that tells us anything about whether freezing works or not. If a company sold frozen beans they would lose sales simply because most people would choose to buy "fresh" rather than frozen beans.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

gcogger said:


> I don't believe that tells us anything about whether freezing works or not. If a company sold frozen beans they would lose sales simply because most people would choose to buy "fresh" rather than frozen beans.


I don't believe fresh/frozen will affect the majority as they buy stale from the supermarket on a daily basis.

A simple answer to your dilemma, does freezing work, freeze some beans for 3 months and compare them to fresh roasted.

Ian


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

That's a great topic. I usually find myself buying 2 x 250g bags of beans as the postage is the same (http://www.coffeereal.co.uk), and freeze one of them as soon as I receive it. Before putting in the freezer, I cover the one-way vale with tape. 2 weeks later I defrost it. My taste buds are not wonderful, but I can definitely tell the difference (thinner, less tasty).


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

I don't think anyone is doubting that fresh beans are better than frozen. However the point is that (unless on subscription) to make most of preferable postage rates for larger orders people will order more like 1kg at a time rather than 250g. Therefore the question remains as to what is the best way to store the beans while you work through them assuming say 250g/week consumption. That is why the comparison is made for frozen vs storage in cupboard.

Personally I find that beyond 2 weeks cupboard storage (post rest) so for arguments sake 3 weeks from roasting, beans taste "fresher" out of the freezer than cupboard storage. That is just my experiments and in reality with IMM I now rarely freeze beans.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Didn't smokey barn do a test to find out ?


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Yes but there was only one update and it then seems to have been forgotten about


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> Didn't smokey barn do a test to find out ?


His test was subject to the same problem of procedure I mentioned....so can't really be described as a valid test.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Freezing isn't the end of the world at all as long as

1. You freeze within 48hrs or so of roast

2. Use a non porous bag

3. Tape up the one way valve

4. Don't leave them in the freezer for more than about 8'weeks

Yes, I'm sure they do lose a little sparkle but as said before, unless you are on a subscription or dont mind paying postage on small amounts every 10-14 days what's the option? (unless you happen to live near a good roaster of course)


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## gcogger (May 18, 2013)

Eyedee said:


> A simple answer to your dilemma, does freezing work, freeze some beans for 3 months and compare them to fresh roasted.
> 
> Ian


My dilemma? Are you confusing me with the OP?


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

gcogger said:


> My dilemma? Are you confusing me with the OP?


I doubt that very much hahahahahahahaha

Ian


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## gcogger (May 18, 2013)

LOL







Yes, I suppose that wouldn't make much sense, would it


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Thecatlinux said:


> Didn't smokey barn do a test to find out ?


From memory: fridge>freezer>cupboard


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Here's the link to the smokey barn video

https://www.smokeybarn.co.uk/index.php/videogallery


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Perger has some remarks on freezing via his periscope session last week .

Freeze - grind when frozen for better particle distribution









Personally won't be doing it but is another view point


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

There was no part 2 because I buggered up the test. Wasn't thinking and put all the bags back in the freezer. Personally, I wouldnt bother with freezing, but the fridge DOES work (for as long as the bag has never been opened).


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

smokeybarn said:


> Personally, I wouldnt bother with freezing, but the fridge DOES work (for as long as the bag has never been opened).


Presumably the one-way valve should be taped over as when freezing? Other than that, can the bag of beans just go straight into the fridge as is?


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

smokeybarn said:


> There was no part 2 because I buggered up the test. Wasn't thinking and put all the bags back in the freezer. Personally, I wouldnt bother with freezing, but the fridge DOES work (for as long as the bag has never been opened).


Aha now that's interesting. I'll give it a try


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Ln2 anybody ???


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## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

Is freezing beans even *that* economical? Say you save £3 on shipping for a 250g bag, that's what, like 10p per shot? Seems an awful lot of effort... Not judging anybody of course! I've never tried it so cannot comment.


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

YerbaMate170 said:


> Is freezing beans even *that* economical? Say you save £3 on shipping for a 250g bag, that's what, like 10p per shot? Seems an awful lot of effort... Not judging anybody of course! I've never tried it so cannot comment.


My thoughts exactly.


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## Rdl81 (Sep 8, 2014)

Only freeze excess I won't drink never had to unfreeZe until today as waiting for lsol to start


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

I have been freezing beans for the past 2-3 years, and there is no noticeable taste difference between beans that have been frozen lets say 7days past roast + 14days in the freezer and those that has not and are 7 days past roast. yes you can freeze the bag, just remember to tape the one way valve. I get allot of coffee from abroad - more then I can drink while it peaks so for me it's a good solution for others - not so much


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