# First ever attempts at Espresso



## GingerBen

Hi all so I have bought an old Gaggia Classic (2002 model) and a new Sage Smart Grinder Pro to try and learn how to make good coffee.

I've had some time today to pull some shots using info learned here and on youtube and wanted to post some results to see where things are going wrong; because they are somewhere lol

First 7 shots were using cheap Lavazza beans to give myself a starting point before using nice beans

Shot 1 -15g coffee in on grind number 10 38.75g espresso out in 25 seconds -tasted bad in a bitter way

Shot 2 - 15g coffee in on grind 12 (touch coarser just to see what happened) - 47.5g espresso out in 25 seconds -also bad but sour

Shot 3 - changed to 18g coffee in and went to grind setting 5 - choked machine - fair enough, gives me an idea of where to be

Shot 4 - 18g coffee in grind setting 8 -choked

Shot 5 - 18g coffee in on grind 10 again - 25.7g out in 30 seconds - thinking im getting close here - tasted it - not good

Shot 6 - 18 g coffee in grind setting 11 (so one coarser than shot 5) - 35.8g out in 30 seconds - have I cracked it? No it was nasty (probably the beans I'm thinking as they smell disgusting so time to try with good coffee)

Shot 7 - try to replicate shot 6 with Foundry Finca San Fran beans - 18g coffee in, grind setting 11, 44.7g out in 30 seconds. Very fruity but sour/bitter? Hard to tell difference sometimes but wasn't nice

Shot 8 -tighten grind to 10, 18g in 45.2g out in 30 seconds?!

Shot 9 - 18g in on grind setting 8 to make it finer again - 22.5g out - took it too far

Shot 10 - 18g in on grind setting 9 - 39g out in 30 seconds and a sour shot

Bit lost as to where to go from here to be honest. I do wonder if my tamp is very inconsistent as this is the first time I've done this and I'd be surprised if one step on the grinder would make a 15g difference on it's own so I need to work on this but either way none of these shots were close to being drinkable IMO.

Any thoughts on what to try next?

Reason I'm timing my shots rather than weighing out is my scales don't fit under the PF so by keeping the shot time consistent I thought that would at least allow me to see if I was too coarse or too fine and go from there until I got something drinkable.


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## Tewdric

First things first.. Have you cleaned and descaled the machine? You're not supposed to back flush Classics I don't think but everybody does. Get yourself some pulycaff and descaler and get youtubing and read back through the forum for guidance.

it may be that you'd b better trying a darker roast bean with the classic - lighter roasts are trickier to extract and very difficult to get right on a cheaper machine.

Another tip tip is to make sure th machine has cycled to optimum temperature - pull your shots consistently 4 secs after the boiler heater light has gone out and see if that improves things.

Good luck and remember, one variable at a time


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## GingerBen

Tewdric said:


> First things first.. Have you cleaned and descaled the machine? You're not supposed to back flush Classics I don't think but everybody does. Get yourself some pulycaff and descaler and get youtubing and read back through the forum for guidance.
> 
> it may be that you'd b better trying a darker roast bean with the classic - lighter roasts are trickier to extract and very difficult to get right on a cheaper machine.
> 
> Another tip tip is to make sure th machine has cycled to optimum temperature - pull your shots consistently 4 secs after the boiler heater light has gone out and see if that improves things.
> 
> Good luck and remember, one variable at a time


i do have some pulycaff and was planning to take it apart a bit tomorrow and soak all the parts I can. I don't have any descaler though but will get some and a blank basket for back flushing. I have an espresso selection coming from rave tomorrow so will give one of those a try in a few days time and see how that goes.

My boiler heater light seems to be on all the time. It flicks on and off as it's heating then stays on. That sound right? I turned it on 30 mins before using it today with the pf and basket locked in.

Thanks for the advice. I'll use this thread as a way to track what I'm doing and my results.


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## El carajillo

When your M/ch is cool remove the shower screen (philip's screw) then use an alen key to remove the dispersion block behind the shower screen as this is where coffee oil and coffee ground's / residue collect, give these a good scrub in hot soapy water.

Do not lock your P/F in too tight when idling / warming, it deteriorates the group seal.

Something that may be causing bitterness is if you pull very long shots 45 - 50 + gms the boiler is cooling too much as it =cannot re-heat the incoming water quick enough= not at brewing temperature. ( A P I D will improve this) Do not be tempted to buy a "triple" basket as this will result in the same problem. 18 gm will be fine.


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## urbanbumpkin

Welcome to the crazy world of espresso.

Definitely worth cleaning the machine as others have advised.

Ive found that Foundry beans can be pushed to 42-45g from an 18g dose.

What basket are you using, if it's a stock basket then stick to a 15g-16g dose. 18g are for VST baskets.

If it's a stock basket try 16g=> 32g out in approx 30-35 secs and see what it tastes like.

If it tastes sour it's probably under-extracted try letting the shot run a bit longer (keeping the grind the same) say 16g> 36g and see if it tastes better.

As a general rule (and this is a general rule) if it tastes sour grind it finer, bitter then go coarser.

The other thing that might cause problems is channelling, so be careful with your shot prep.

Keep us posted if you're still struggling do a video of your shot prep and shot.


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## GingerBen

Thanks both. Some good tips there. I'll hopefully have some time tomorrow to play around with it again so I'll make cleaning it out a priority then pull some shots Thursday when I've got time to mess around with it a bit more.

I took a picture of my shots today as they looked murky to me. Can't upload from phone but will stick them up tomorrow. Crema looked alright but shot below was brown and cloudy and I was expecting something darker and clearer. Is that right?


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## GingerBen

urbanbumpkin said:


> Welcome to the crazy world of espresso.
> 
> Definitely worth cleaning the machine as others have advised.
> 
> Ive found that Foundry beans can be pushed to 42-45g from an 18g dose.
> 
> What basket are you using, if it's a stock basket then stick to a 15g-16g dose. 18g are for VST baskets.
> 
> If it's a stock basket try 16g=> 32g out in approx 30-35 secs and see what it tastes like.
> 
> If it tastes sour it's probably under-extracted try letting the shot run a bit longer (keeping the grind the same) say 16g> 36g and see if it tastes better.
> 
> As a general rule (and this is a general rule) if it tastes sour grind it finer, bitter then go coarser.
> 
> The other thing that might cause problems is channelling, so be careful with your shot prep.
> 
> Keep us posted if you're still struggling do a video of your shot prep and shot.


Its the stock double I'm using so I'll stick to 15g for now. the two I made yesterday with 15g gave a soupy puck though, is that an issue? 18g today were much drier.


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## GingerBen

Don't know why it's sideways but you can see the colour either way.Does it look alright?


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## Rakesh

Tewdric said:


> You're not supposed to back flush Classics I don't think but everybody does.


Now that's the first time i've heard don't backflush a 3-way solenoid machine. Is this true? Can anyone else attest to not backflushing?


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## Rakesh

GingerBen said:


> View attachment 29492
> 
> 
> Don't know why it's sideways but you can see the colour either way.Does it look alright?


Its really hard to tell from the colour, to be honest you should really invest is some suitable scales under the pf. The brew ratio is more important and time should just be used as a basic guideline, ive had some incredible shots at 20s and 40s on a 18>36 ratio and some not so great ones at 30s so it really key to be able to stick to your ratio and adjust according to taste.


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## GingerBen

Rakesh said:


> Its really hard to tell from the colour, to be honest you should really invest is some suitable scales under the pf. The brew ratio is more important and time should just be used as a basic guideline, ive had some incredible shots at 20s and 40s on a 18>36 ratio and some not so great ones at 30s so it really key to be able to stick to your ratio and adjust according to taste.


thanks Rakesh. Those scales are decent to 0.01 of a gram but don't fit lol. Any links to some cheap ones that will more likely fit?


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## Rakesh

GingerBen said:


> thanks Rakesh. Those scales are decent to 0.01 of a gram but don't fit lol. Any links to some cheap ones that will more likely fit?


https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00APE4OQ2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_pW-0zbNGHT1VF


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## GingerBen

Cheers will have a look


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## El carajillo

Rakesh said:


> Now that's the first time i've heard don't backflush a 3-way solenoid machine. Is this true? Can anyone else attest to not backflushing?


This was promoted by Mark aka Gaggiamanualserve. He worked for Gaggia and it was their instructions not to flush Gaggia Classic's I believe.

Perhaps Mark can confirm.


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## urbanbumpkin

I back flushed my Classic....interested on what Mark has to say.


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## GingerBen

So I took a few parts off this morning for a Puly bath. Took some video of the before and after. Clearly in need of a clean as was pretty grim. Question is does the clean shower screen holding plate look clean enough/in good nick or is it past it? I've also added a picture of the group gasket which doesn't seem perished at all but is ridged which just shows up on the photo. I've not noticed any leaks but wondered if worth replacing anyway as cheap enough to do.


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## GingerBen

Got some scales coming today that should fit on the drip tray so going to try brewing by weight in and out rather than weight in and time out. Will track time too if coirse so can adjust grind if required.


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## GingerBen

Descaled it today with some baby puly. Has made a huge difference to the steam wand power. Reckon it could cut steel now lol. Got a back flushing disc coming Tuesday so that's the last cleaning job to do before hopefully making some decent coffee. However I will give it a try again this afternoon because I'm impatient.


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## Stanic

That shower plate cleaned nicely, was really dirty before. I'd recommend changing the group gasket to a silicone one by Cafelat, they are very good. If you want you can get a brass shower plate for improved thermal stability, of course there is also the IMS shower screen

Good job on descaling!


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## GingerBen

Thanks Stanic. I've seen the shower screens elsewhere on here. What benefit do they provide?


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## Stanic

They are supposed to provide a more even 'shower' effect, better flow under pressure and are easier to clean - made of a single piece of stainless steel, no gunk accumulation between the screen and metal plate


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## GingerBen

I made (something loosely resembling) my first ever flat white!









I have a number of questions which I put in my other thread if anybody is able to offer a bit of help/information.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?40733-Espresso-grinding-on-the-Smart-Grinder-Pro&p=537462#post537462


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## GingerBen

So my quest to produce something drinkable continues - it really shouldn't be this hard I'm sure - paralasyis by analysis is certainly possible however sour is sour and that means something is wrong. Pulled a couple of shots today using what I was hoping would be approximately the right grind setting.

The first (below) produced 16/34 in 23 seconds and flew through - very sour

















Thin crema as well as being sour so decided to go one finer and see what happens - pictures below

This was 16/33 in 31 seconds - definitely closer to drinkablebut still sour at the end - I did drink it though to give it a chance but wasn't one I'd repeat lol

















Any thoughts from the pictures as what could be going on to make them sour? I'm not sure whether to go one finer again and see what that does or change the ratios from 1:2(ish)

Here's a picture of the puck from the first (very sour) shot in case that's helpful. Looks like it has some serious holes in it to me which clearly won't help but I don't know how that's caused/fixed.


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## Mrboots2u

Keep ratio the same, tighten the grind , repeat ( time to extract will increase ) , taste .


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## GingerBen

Mrboots2u said:


> Keep ratio the same, tighten the grind , repeat ( time to extract will increase ) , taste .


Sounds very simple and sensible thanks. I shall carry on tomorrow.


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## Mrboots2u

GingerBen said:


> Sounds very simple and sensible thanks. I shall carry on tomorrow.


If still sour , tighten again .

If not sure , dilute the shot a little with water and taste again .


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## Mrboots2u

GingerBen said:


> Sounds very simple and sensible thanks. I shall carry on tomorrow.


Whats the coffee btw.

In general post extraction pucks don't tell you alot, as the opv on your machine sucks water out at high force.


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## GingerBen

Mrboots2u said:


> Whats the coffee btw.
> 
> In general post extraction pucks don't tell you alot, as the opv on your machine sucks water out at high force.


that was rave signature blend but it's finished now.


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## igm45

I'd concentrate on the basics before making constant changes, if your shots are suffering from channeling you will struggle no matter the grind.

Try making the same ratio with the same Grind Setting twice. If the time taken to reach that ratio is similar then you can alter the grind according to taste. If the times are way off then you need to improve something in your shot prep.


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## GingerBen

So after more trys earlier I am at a loss to be honest. I pulled the following shots with the following outcome -

1 - Grind setting 7 (on the SGP 1 is finest 60 is most coarse) -pretty much choaked machine, nothing from spout in 50 seconds so shut it down

2 - Grind 8 (1 step coarser) -16g/34g in 50 seconds

3 - Grind 9 -16g/34g in 42 seconds -sour

4 - Grind 10 -16g/34g in 37 seconds -sour

5 -Grind 11 -16g/32g in 30 seconds - horrid, mixture of sour, bitter just nasty

6 - Grind 11 - 16/34 in 25 seconds which I happened to film to see if that sheds any light. Link below

This might be a thick question but I start timing from when I turn the pump on not when the espresso starts to drip correct?

Machine is clean, descaled and backflushed since I've owned it (2 weeks or so) and I can't make a shot that tastes good.I'm stuck. Any thoughts on what might be going wrong or what to do next?


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## Mrboots2u

OK lets change ratio

Same dose

Pull to 1:4

Is this still rave signature?


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## GingerBen

Mrboots2u said:


> OK lets change ratio
> 
> Same dose
> 
> Pull to 1:4
> 
> Is this still rave signature?


No finished that yesterday. Been using workhouse 'butterscotch' today.


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## Rakesh

GingerBen said:


> No finished that yesterday. Been using workhouse 'butterscotch' today.


How old are the beans


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## GingerBen

Rakesh said:


> How old are the beans


 Bought them yesterday but didn't notice at the time there isn't a roasted on date on the bag. No valve or proper seal either. I realise they aren't the best but will hopefully suffice while I get the grind nailed down.


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## Rakesh

GingerBen said:


> Bought them yesterday but didn't notice at the time there isn't a roasted on date on the bag. No valve or proper seal either. I realise they aren't the best but will hopefully suffice while I get the grind nailed down.


You can't use crap beans to get the grind right because regardless of the grind setting you are going to get a bad cup, get some freshly roasted well rested beans and use them to dial in or you will just end up frustrated with rubbish beans.


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## GingerBen

Rakesh said:


> You can't use crap beans to get the grind right because regardless of the grind setting you are going to get a bad cup, get some freshly roasted well rested beans and use them to dial in or you will just end up frustrated with rubbish beans.


yes I'm aware of this. I've been struggling with beans from rave as well and just picked these up yesterday as I was in their cafe. Didn't realise they were possibly crap until I got them home. Getting sick of wasting good beans though.


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## GingerBen

Mrboots2u said:


> OK lets change ratio
> 
> Same dose
> 
> Pull to 1:4
> 
> Is this still rave signature?


Will get some time to do this tomorrow and report back. I'll use decent beans on the setting that's getting me close to 1:2 in 30 seconds and go from there as a starting point.


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## Rakesh

GingerBen said:


> yes I'm aware of this. I've been struggling with beans from rave as well and just picked these up yesterday as I was in their cafe. Didn't realise they were possibly crap until I got them home. Getting sick of wasting good beans though.


It can be stressful buying and wasting good beans, but it is the only way to learn how to dial in your grind properly. If beans seem improperly packaged and without a roast date then chances are the beans won't be the best.


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## Mrboots2u

GingerBen said:


> Will get some time to do this tomorrow and report back. I'll use decent beans on the setting that's getting me close to 1:2 in 30 seconds and go from there as a starting point.


Its been a while since I had Rave Signature , and looking at it now , its a medium blend with some slight citurs notes.

It was never the best as espresso though and is predominantly a wholesale blend to be easy to work with and for milk based drinks.

Again this doesn't explain the over riding sourness you are getting ( should be more nutty and sweet ??)

Has the blend changed much since my day @coffeechap ?


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## GingerBen

I've got 250g rave Italian job in the freezer. I'll use those tomorrow and see how I go. I understand they can be quite punchy but shouldn't be sour so hopefully will work better


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## Mrboots2u

GingerBen said:


> I've got 250g rave Italian job in the freezer. I'll use those tomorrow and see how I go. I understand they can be quite punchy but shouldn't be sour so hopefully will work better


If you can make them sour then we will have to have a real rethink.

Where or what espresso you do drink that you enjoy ( cafe etc ) .

Do you normally drink espresso , or milk based drinks or americano ?


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## MWJB

GingerBen said:


> I've got 250g rave Italian job in the freezer. I'll use those tomorrow and see how I go. I understand they can be quite punchy but shouldn't be sour so hopefully will work better


Neither 'should ' be sour, but you can unbalance most beans by under-extracting. Hence @Mrboots2u suggestion of pushing more water through the puck (extract more).


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## GingerBen

Mrboots2u said:


> If you can make them sour then we will have to have a real rethink.
> 
> Where or what espresso you do drink that you enjoy ( cafe etc ) .
> 
> Do you normally drink espresso , or milk based drinks or americano ?


i don't drink straight espresso often so don't have much of a benchmark but I've had good ones and based on that know what I've been making isn't right.

Day to day I drink milk based (usual high st cafes or speciality if I am near one) or aeropress at home with a bit of milk. I'm aiming to be able to produce decent espresso at home to make my own flat whites and the occasional straight shot.


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## Mrboots2u

GingerBen said:


> i don't drink straight espresso often so don't have much of a benchmark but I've had good ones and based on that know what I've been making isn't right.
> 
> Day to day I drink milk based (usual high st cafes or speciality if I am near one) or aeropress at home with a bit of milk. I'm aiming to be able to produce decent espresso at home to make my own flat whites and the occasional straight shot.


Ok try adding milk and making milm based drink with Signature and Italian job ( after taking a sip of espresso ) as that is what they are primarily blended to do...

High street chain cafes will be using coffee with it arse roasted off it ( the exception bring OPS at Costa which isn'y so bad ).

Do you drink espresso there and enjoy it , as if you do then it ma be a simple case that your palette is calibrated to coffee really darkly roasted.

In these circumstances alot of specialty coffee can seem "sour or acidic " as a result .

Again this isnt discounting that you may be under extracting and enhancing these traits in the coffee.


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## urbanbumpkin

GingerBen said:


> that was rave signature blend but it's finished now.


Rave signature tastes horrid without milk IMO


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## GingerBen

Mrboots2u said:


> Ok try adding milk and making milm based drink with Signature and Italian job ( after taking a sip of espresso ) as that is what they are primarily blended to do...
> 
> High street chain cafes will be using coffee with it arse roasted off it ( the exception bring OPS at Costa which isn'y so bad ).
> 
> Do you drink espresso there and enjoy it , as if you do then it ma be a simple case that your palette is calibrated to coffee really darkly roasted.
> 
> In these circumstances alot of specialty coffee can seem "sour or acidic " as a result .
> 
> Again this isnt discounting that you may be under extracting and enhancing these traits in the coffee.


no I don't drink espresso at the big chains, normally flat whites. The good espressos I've had have been at speciality places or the occasional restaurant. I do find the espresso at the chain places too dark/bitter for my liking on the whole.

I'll crack on with the Italian job tomorrow and see how that goes pulled at 1:2 then 1:4 as suggested earlier. I'll make a flat white with both and see which I prefer and go from there.

Really appreciate your advice, thanks again.


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## Mrboots2u

GingerBen said:


> no I don't drink espresso at the big chains, normally flat whites. The good espressos I've had have been at speciality places or the occasional restaurant. I do find the espresso at the chain places too dark/bitter for my liking on the whole.
> 
> I'll crack on with the Italian job tomorrow and see how that goes pulled at 1:2 then 1:4 as suggested earlier. I'll make a flat white with both and see which I prefer and go from there.
> 
> Really appreciate your advice, thanks again.


Yeah no worries... It's a pain we all go through .

Ultimately buy the coffee you enjoy and and try as make it as tasty as possible.

We all have different tastes , what is sour to one person ( not you btw ) can be juicy and have lovely acidity to another .

There is enough specialty coffee around that isn't roasted enough to allow sweetness and balance to counter act the chain roasted darker stuff.

I think the cat handed point i was trying to make was you enjoy the high street store stuff as milk based drinks but not say as espresso

Don't kill yourself trying to do the opposite by only drinking the home based stuff as espresso too.

Give it a chance with some milk also , you may enjoy the brew , and this is kinda the point of the whole thing .

Sure strive to get the best shot you can , but not at the expense of actually having something acceptable you may like in the meantime.


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## Stanic

I had an 'issue' with sour espresso early this year with pulped natural Nicaragua from Hasbean, brewing at settings for other beans I was getting a cup full of acid









Grinding finer and brewing at higher temperature helped to get a nice coffee. Those beans were significantly harder to hand grind compared to anything else I've come across so far.


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## audio2

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## Juba

Just to double check what basket are you using? Not the pressurized right?


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## GingerBen

Juba said:


> Just to double check what basket are you using? Not the pressurized right?


No the standard double that came with it


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## GingerBen

So this mornings efforts have been successful!!

Using raves Italian job I pulled the first shot 16/34 in 44 seconds. Looked good, drank it...not sour!!

Tried again same everything 16/33 in 44 seconds. Also not sour. Made a flat white and it wasn't half bad. Not the best but I've had worse.

Very happy with the results. Only thing I changed, subconsciously the first time, was my tamp. I just leaned on it hard rather than feeling it stop compressing. did it the second time and it worked again. Will stick to this ratio/method for a while and make sure I can keep repeating it.

Tha ks for all your help everybody. Much appreciated and seems to have worked.


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## GingerBen

Flat white could have done with a bit more oomph so when I'm feeling confident is the next step to add a bit more coffee to the basket and try that? What would I need to change in my method if anything for say 18g?


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## lake_m

It's OK to go up to 18g (providing your basket is design to take that). But keep the ratios the same. You may need to grind a little coarser.


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## Mrboots2u

Less milk? You could shorten thr be ratio and try 16>28 for a milk drink.

Find a Way your happy tamping and stick to it.

So we have not sour... Is it good?


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## GingerBen

Mrboots2u said:


> Less milk? You could shorten thr be ratio and try 16>28 for a milk drink.
> 
> Find a Way your happy tamping and stick to it.
> 
> So we have not sour... Is it good?


good enough to drink and not pull a face lol. It wasn't the best of course but definitely not sour, slight bitterness at the end which I assumed was the nature of the beans.

Could do less milk milk yes but was a pretty small drink as it was so my preference would be more coffee. However I'll worry about that when I can consistently pull a decent shot.


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## GingerBen

lake_m said:


> It's OK to go up to 18g (providing your basket is design to take that). But keep the ratios the same. You may need to grind a little coarser.


i think it's the standard double that comes with a gaggia classic. 16g looks small in there so 18 would fit but might not be as simple as that?


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## urbanbumpkin

Standard double is 15-16g. Glad to hear you've got better results


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## GingerBen

urbanbumpkin said:


> Standard double is 15-16g. Glad to hear you've got better results


Ah ok good to know thanks.


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## GingerBen

So if I want to up the amount of coffee do I need to buy a vst 18g or 20g basket? Will these fit my machine?


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## MWJB

GingerBen said:


> So if I want to up the amount of coffee do I need to buy a vst 18g or 20g basket? Will these fit my machine?


Are you saying you need a 37-38g shot instead of 33-34g? Even if you have this the shot will be at a similar extraction & adding 10% more milk will make everything the same, just 10% more of it. Adding 10% less milk might be the first step?


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## GingerBen

MWJB said:


> Are you saying you need a 37-38g shot instead of 33-34g? Even if you have this the shot will be at a similar extraction & adding 10% more milk will make everything the same, just 10% more of it. Adding 10% less milk might be the first step?


no sorry I want to make a stronger shot so I can have a flat white with more coffee flavour. I don't want to drop the milk as it's a pretty small drink already.


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## Mrboots2u

GingerBen said:


> no sorry I want to make a stronger shot so I can have a flat white with more coffee flavour. I don't want to drop the milk as it's a pretty small drink already.


How small 5-6oz cup?


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## GingerBen

Yes filled to the brim the cup I tend to use for a flat white is 6oz


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## MWJB

GingerBen said:


> no sorry I want to make a stronger shot so I can have a flat white with more coffee flavour. I don't want to drop the milk as it's a pretty small drink already.


Then you have to grind fine & pull a shorter shot, without it dropping into sourness. (Not that buying an 18g VST would be a bad idea, it isn't).

Strength is a function of coffee dose:beverage (at a similar extraction).

Flavour balance is driven by extraction.

I'd maybe try a tad finer with your current set up in the meantime.


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## GingerBen

MWJB said:


> Then you have to grind fine & pull a shorter shot, without it dropping into sourness. (Not that buying an 18g VST would be a bad idea, it isn't).
> 
> Strength is a function of coffee dose:beverage (at a similar extraction).
> 
> Flavour balance is driven by extraction.
> 
> I'd maybe try a tad finer with your current set up in the meantime.


ok thanks that's useful info.


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## GingerBen

Finally getting some consistency. 3 shots pulled one after the other within the odd gram/second of each other and all tasted fine. I slackened the grind off to 12 on the sage and that seems to be the sweet spot for this coffee at the moment.

one thing I have noticed is the differences in grind from one step to another seem very inconsistent. 11-12 made a subtle but useful difference in shot speed. 12-13 caused a torrent from the portafilter that nearly ruined my scales. Crazy.


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## lake_m

GingerBen said:


> Finally getting some consistency. 3 shots pulled one after the other within the odd gram/second of each other and all tasted fine. I slackened the grind off to 12 on the sage and that seems to be the sweet spot for this coffee at the moment.
> 
> one thing I have noticed is the differences in grind from one step to another seem very inconsistent. 11-12 made a subtle but useful difference in shot speed. 12-13 caused a torrent from the portafilter that nearly ruined my scales. Crazy.


One of the oddities of the Sage SGP. I always found that when adjusting the grind setting, although the knob 'clicked' which caused the display to change to the next grind setting, there was always a 'springy' feel to the knob that gave the impression that there was slack between the different settings.


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## GingerBen

lake_m said:


> One of the oddities of the Sage SGP. I always found that when adjusting the grind setting, although the knob 'clicked' which caused the display to change to the next grind setting, there was always a 'springy' feel to the knob that gave the impression that there was slack between the different settings.


yes it's a bit odd. I've also had it change grind half way through some beans too. It flicked from a 10 to an 11 on the display while I was using it. Perhaps not the most accurate grinder money can buy lol


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## GingerBen

Back to espresso frustration again. New beans, so dialing grinder in again, 3 stops finer than last beans and still flooding through and tasting sour. Wasting £3 tesco beans doesn't bother me, wasting £30/kg beans does and I must say I'm getting a touch fed up with it. Walked away from it as wasn't getting anywhere other than frustrated. I may just stick with brewed tbh


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## MWJB

GingerBen said:


> Back to espresso frustration again. New beans, so dialing grinder in again, 3 stops finer than last beans and still flooding through and tasting sour. Wasting £3 tesco beans doesn't bother me, wasting £30/kg beans does and I must say I'm getting a touch fed up with it. Walked away from it as wasn't getting anywhere other than frustrated. I may just stick with brewed tbh


OK, you're getting vague on us now, what do you call "flooding through" (grams & seconds)?

Are you pulling shots longer than 1:2 now?

No reason not to stick with brewed, espresso will normally take a little more dialling in, but if your recipe is viable, you shouldn't need to make more than a few shots to keep in the ball park.


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## GingerBen

MWJB said:


> OK, you're getting vague on us now, what do you call "flooding through" (grams & seconds)?
> 
> Are you pulling shots longer than 1:2 now?
> 
> No reason not to stick with brewed, espresso will normally take a little more dialling in, but if your recipe is viable, you shouldn't need to make more than a few shots to keep in the ball park.


Sorry, it was a post written in mild anger lol

16g in around 35g out came through in around 15 seconds - cant be more accurate as I was caught off guard and had to stop the pump before my shot glass over flowed. This was at a grind setting 3 steps finer than the other day when I was having some success.

I'm discovering that I actually really like brewed coffee now I'm using high quality and freshly ground beans and the faff of making espresso for the odd flat white or shot isn't really worth it to me. It's all a learning curve for me but the end needs to justify the means and I'm not sure an occasional flat white or whatever it might be is worth the hassle


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