# Sage barista pro coffe too cold



## smurfine (Aug 6, 2021)

I have a 3 weeks old barista pro machine. In the beginning I remember that the coffe temp was about 90 degrees. The last days I've measured it to only 45-50 degrees. In the settings it''s been at "hottest" all the time. What could it be?

I adjusted the internal top burr from level 6 to level 4 a few days ago, but that should'nt cause the coffee to be colder?


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## Evergreen88 (Jun 7, 2021)

smurfine said:


> I have a 3 weeks old barista pro machine. In the beginning I remember that the coffe temp was about 90 degrees. The last days I've measured it to only 45-50 degrees. In the settings it''s been at "hottest" all the time. What could it be?
> 
> I adjusted the internal top burr from level 6 to level 4 a few days ago, but that should'nt cause the coffee to be colder?


 How long are you waiting before pulling the shot? Do you keep the portafilter locked in during the warm up time?


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## smurfine (Aug 6, 2021)

Evergreen88 said:


> How long are you waiting before pulling the shot? Do you keep the portafilter locked in during the warm up time?


 There is no warm up time on barista pro? I make a few empty shots before brewing.


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

How are you measuring temp?


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## Evergreen88 (Jun 7, 2021)

smurfine said:


> There is no warm up time on barista pro? I make a few empty shots before brewing.


 I never used the machine so I can't really say, but as for any other machine I suppose the group head and the portafilter need to be hot before pulling a shot. Try to let it warm up with the portafilter in for 15-20 minutes and check again if the temperature is any better.

50 is really low, if you measure in the cup you should get at least 80.


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## smurfine (Aug 6, 2021)

HVL87 said:


> How are you measuring temp?


 I've just measured the brewed coffee with a thermometer


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

Evergreen88 said:


> I never used the machine so I can't really say, but as for any other machine I suppose the group head and the portafilter need to be hot before pulling a shot. Try to let it warm up with the portafilter in for 15-20 minutes and check again if the temperature is any better.
> 
> 50 is really low, if you measure in the cup you should get at least 80.


 That's not how the barista pro works. It has a thermojet system which heats water on the fly. If it's not brewing it doesn't heat up when idle. That's why you have to run a couple of warming flushes before pulling a shot.

80c in the cup minimum? 69/70c is a more reasonable temp to expect and it also depends on what cup you're brewing into and whether it's pre-heated, dual wall etc.

That's why I asked the OP how he is measuring temp. As I have mentioned before the temperature of brew water on the Barista Pro is depended on the resistance provided by the coffee in the portafilter. If there isn't sufficient resistance the water flows too quickly and doesn't heat up to an optimal temp.

@smurfine are you still under-dosing in the double basket? Ideally it requires a minimum of 18g.

One way to roughly measure the temp on the barista pro is to put a pressurised basket into the PF and run a few shots - insert the end of a milk thermometer into the bottom of a spout.


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## Evergreen88 (Jun 7, 2021)

HVL87 said:


> That's not how the barista pro works. It has a thermojet system which heats water on the fly. If it's not brewing it doesn't heat up when idle. That's why you have to run a couple of warming flushes before pulling a shot.
> 
> 80c in the cup minimum? 69/70c is a more reasonable temp to expect and it also depends on what cup you're brewing into and whether it's pre-heated, dual wall etc.
> 
> ...


 Thank you for the clarification re the Barista Pro.

When I said 80+ in the cup I meant water in the cup, not the actual coffee (I wouldn't put a thermometer in the coffee I am about to drink!).


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

Evergreen88 said:


> Thank you for the clarification re the SBE.
> 
> When I said 80+ in the cup I meant water in the cup, not the actual coffee (I wouldn't put a thermometer in the coffee I am about to drink!).


 😄 well you can use a milk thermometer? Many use one when steaming milk, and that milk ends up in your cup anyway if you're having a milk based drink. That's what it's designed for.


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## smurfine (Aug 6, 2021)

HVL87 said:


> 😄 well you can use a milk thermometer? Many use one when steaming milk, and that milk ends up in your cup anyway if you're having a milk based drink. That's what it's designed for.


 Now I made 3 empty double shots with only the PF connected. After the third one the water temp that came out was 66 degrees.

Right afterwards I made a shot with espresso and I measured it to 59.8 degrees. Isn't that very low?

When I make a shot with coffee in the PF it takes about 25 - 30 seconds, so the water is not flowing too quickly either


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## Evergreen88 (Jun 7, 2021)

smurfine said:


> Now I made 3 empty double shots with only the PF connected. After the third one the water temp that came out was 66 degrees.
> 
> Right afterwards I made a shot with espresso and I measured it to 59.8 degrees. Isn't that very low?
> 
> When I make a shot with coffee in the PF it takes about 25 - 30 seconds, so the water is not flowing too quickly either


 Yes it's definitely too cold. The water should come out at 80-90 degrees.

Since it should be still under warranty you should check with the seller.


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## smurfine (Aug 6, 2021)

Evergreen88 said:


> Yes it's definitely too cold. The water should come out at 80-90 degrees.
> 
> Since it should be still under warranty you should check with the seller.


 I'm pretty sure I measured the coffee to about 90 degrees the first time I tried the machine, so this i strange. What can have caused the sudden drop in temperature?


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

@smurfine i'll try once more. What dose are you using in the double basket?

When you run empty shots are you using a pressurised or non-pressurised basket?

Sufficient *resistance* is required in the PF for the water to reach the correct temperature.

I very much doubt you ever measured 90c in the cup.

With the barista pro the max temp of the coffee in a dual wall cup I measured was around 64-67c if I remember correctly. It was often lower. In general it doesn't produce a very hot espresso although it also depends on the cup you're using and whether it's preheated or insulated?

I had also measured water temp from the group into a preheated cup as 74C without any resistance in the PF.

Seems like there is a lack of understanding of how this machine works.

If you are really concerned speak to the reseller or Sage directly.


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

I'll paste an explanation from Sage below on the variables which determine temperature in the cup:

"With all thermojet units: Barista Touch, Barista Pro, Bambino...
The temperature result of coffee will be dependent on the conditions set by user. We controlled the flow based on Coffee roasted freshness, selecting the correct grind size, adding enough coffee in the portafilter, tamping evenly. All these variables must exist on the thermojet products otherwise consumers WILL experience coffee not at the optimum temperature.

In regards to the cup warmer, group head and shower screen being warmer on the BE vs. BP:

This is because of thermocoil we use that has more mass and takes much longer to heat. This will then in turn radiate heat upward to the top of the unit. The newer thermojet units do not radiate heat because of the faster heat up times and are ONLY on when required."


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

With an E61 machine, PID set to 93c water in the cup measures about 81-83c (that's just water from the group, no coffee, no resistance). The coffee will bring that down a touch, I've never bothered measuring but it's not too hot to drink immediately so I'm guessing 65-70c. Your milk thermometer won't respond immediately and if the cup isn't pre-heated and is large and/or heavy it may suck more temp out of the espresso. I believe the Sage HX machines brew on the cooler side anyway. In short, it doesn't sound like there's anything wrong and your measurements are probably out a little because of time. I have no idea how you got 90c and would think that's no really possible without some strange pre-heating the cup in an oven at 100c routine: the coffee will cool as it drops from the PF, cool in the cup. Even boiling water from a kettle poured quickly into a pre-heated french press will only max out at about 94c. See video at 7 minutes...


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## smurfine (Aug 6, 2021)

HVL87 said:


> @smurfine i'll try once more. What dose are you using in the double basket?
> 
> When you run empty shots are you using a pressurised or non-pressurised basket?
> 
> ...


 Sorry I thought I'd answered that.

I only use about 15 grams coffee.

And when I measured it was through a single wall basket. I just thought that if the coffee measured from an empty shot was 66 degrees, the finished coffee would definitely be colder.

How do you heat the cup quickly. It takes time to boil water etc.


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

smurfine said:


> I only use about 15 grams coffee.


 I know you don't like your coffee too strong but unfortunately you are under-dosing the double basket.

18g is a minimum, ideally 19g. If you don't use the correct amount you can't expect an optimal result.



smurfine said:


> And when I measured it was through a single wall basket. I just thought that if the coffee measured from an empty shot was 66 degrees, the finished coffee would definitely be colder.


 As explained above that's not how the machine works...try empty shots through a pressurised basket. Milk thermometer in the spout.



smurfine said:


> How do you heat the cup quickly. It takes time to boil water etc.


 Well the cup warmer on the machine is useless so your only option is to boil water to preheat the cup or use double walled insulated cups for espresso.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@smurfine - you have excellent advice above from @HVL87 . There's no point in procrastinating any further. Until you follow the advice given above, by an experienced user of the machine, you'll be getting mediocre results in the cup.

Follow he above and let us know how you get on. Good luck!


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## mike_8203 (2 mo ago)

smurfine said:


> I have a 3 weeks old barista pro machine. In the beginning I remember that the coffe temp was about 90 degrees. The last days I've measured it to only 45-50 degrees. In the settings it''s been at "hottest" all the time. What could it be? I adjusted the internal top burr from level 6 to level 4 a few days ago, but that should'nt cause the coffee to be colder?


 Our Barista started with hotter coffee in the beginning. We never had a problem with our previous Delonghi. Yes the Delonghi needed a few minutes to heat up, but the Barista states it's ready to be used after 3 seconds. We still like the Barista, I drink my coffee black but I will have to drink it in 2 minutes. My wife uses milk, but needs to warm it up before poring coffee in. We never skip rinse or descaling once it shows up on the display.???


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## ImthatGuy (Dec 4, 2015)

Barista Pro owner here - had it for a couple of years now.

It is important to heat the brew head, portafilter and the cup/mug if you want a really hot coffee. I run 2 double shots through into the cup, which does the job really well. As has been said, the Pro doesn't heat anything until the water's running over the thermoblock.


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