# I'm Finding Freshly Roasted Beans Too Weird



## antinwales (Jan 16, 2021)

OK, I appreciate this is probably not the place to be saying this, and I hope this doesn't come across as rude.

I like better quality, interesting food and booze.
Of particular relevance is my love of fruity, hoppy IPA, bitter-sweet negronis, and the hot lash of a vindaloo.
I happily make sourdough & my own bacon & smoke meat for 10 hours so know of effort & learning to get better results.
I remember my dad saying "Don't you have any beer that tastes like beer".

I've always loved a good coffee, so when my DeLonghi B2C died the upgrade to a proper grinder and espresso machine seemed just my thing.
Obviously I followed the advice and got freshly roasted beans.

After some skirmishing, I am now pulling 17g/40g in 26 seconds. 
But I'm still not wild about the coffee.

A kg of Clifton Suspension has given my the scope to get dialed in, but there is no way it is better than what I was drinking with Lavassa & the Delonghi.
Most of the Rave (and the Bella Barista espresso blend) went down the drain.
Not just me, rest of the family didn't like it. 
"Why can't we have coffee that tastes like coffee? This is weird" we're all saying.

I know this is against the spirit of the forum, but can anyone recommend nice coffee that tastes like coffee?
I have never bought a coffee (from the many coffee shops in Aberystwyth) and had anything that tastes like the Freshly Ground we've been having.
Are people like, say, Union more Normal?

Am I the only person to ask this? Do I just not really like coffee?


----------



## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

How fresh are we talking here? Beans need time to rest, ideally 2 weeks.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

What Rave did you try ?

YOu are looking for something from coffee compass I suspect one of their medium to dark blends or single origins , look for Brazilian or blends with a Brazil base. But some of the Rave blends Italian Job etc are not exactly on the light side.

As an aside have you tried any ratios that are not 1;2 over different time frames.

I like fruity coffee but cant drink a hoppy IPA , it is horses for courses

Other than that go back to Lavazza perhaps or admit you are turning into your dad


----------



## Karka (Dec 20, 2020)

Perhaps you're more a fan of the Robusta type beans which generally less sweet, are usually stronger in caffeine, and more harsh. Lavazza I believe use quite a high amount of robusta in their coffee, i think most Italian blends do.


----------



## antinwales (Jan 16, 2021)

Chris_on_caffeine said:


> How fresh are we talking here? Beans need time to rest, ideally 2 weeks.


 Interesting!
I've been looking at this, and keep seeing "4-14 days is ideal, particularly for darker roasts"
I wonder if I am going in too soon, and a fortnight of further ageing might make them more coffee-like, less weird.
The Clifton has been the best so far, so maybe I should order another kilo now to have them slightly older next.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

antinwales said:


> Interesting!
> I've been looking at this, and keep seeing "4-14 days is ideal, particularly for darker roasts"
> I wonder if I am going in too soon, and a fortnight of further ageing might make them more coffee-like, less weird.
> The Clifton has been the best so far, so maybe I should order another kilo now to have them slightly older next.


https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/55351-resting-coffee-why-and-how-long/?do=embed


----------



## antinwales (Jan 16, 2021)

Mrboots2u said:


> Other than that go back to Lavazza perhaps or admit you are turning into your dad


 We're all turning into our dads. God's joke, innit.

I tried the darker Raves. I still have a little of one of them, might leave it another week and give it another crack.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

antinwales said:


> We're all turning into our dads. God's joke, innit.
> 
> I tried the darker Raves. I still have a little of one of them, might leave it another week and give it another crack.


 Darker roasts can be better at shorter ratios 1:6 to 1:2

Are you stuck on 1;2 or have you tried longer and shorter


----------



## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

It isn't against the spirit of the forum in the slightest imo. Coffee is super varied just like wines, beers and cheese. You just need to track down one that you like.

Given that you enjoyed Lavazza I would say your preference is going to be for the darker roasted, Italian style coffee. We have recently launched a new blend that might be of interest to you - Twilight Blend 

Coffee Compass are also very highly regarded for their dark roasts.

But hey if it turns out you still like Lavazza, Kimbo, Maromas etc then just drink that. It'll be better in your espresso machine that it ever was by bean to cup.


----------



## antinwales (Jan 16, 2021)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> We have recently launched a new blend that might be of interest to you - Twilight Blend


 Thanks @BlackCatCoffee - That Twilight Blend sounds the thing, so I've ordered that and your choc & your House. I might leave them 12 days.

Your notes on the Twilight recommends a brew temperature of 90C.
I know enough about BBQs and ovens to know that my PID wouldn't agree with your PID, but I'm setting 94C. Too hot? 90C better?


----------



## antinwales (Jan 16, 2021)

@BlackCatCoffee - yes, I'm another bloody customer who goes 3p over the minimum spend for free delivery 🙃


----------



## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

I'm going to check this one out too, sounds good! I do like a bit of DSOL!


----------



## mathof (Mar 24, 2012)

If there are any cafes near you that make espresso you like, you might ask what beans they are using and see if you can get some.


----------



## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

antinwales said:


> @BlackCatCoffee - yes, I'm another bloody customer who goes 3p over the minimum spend for free delivery 🙃


 I am this guy too!


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

antinwales said:


> After some skirmishing, I am now pulling 17g/40g in 26 seconds.
> But I'm still not wild about the coffee.


 That for a change departs from coffee folklore but I would suggest you try other ratios including the 2 and even maybe past 3. Maybe time some what longer and beans can change surprisingly with shorter. However you do seem to have started where some find the answer usually is.

The coffee though. Tricky. One name for what you are drinking is gourmet coffee - not the usual stuff. The usual stuff will generally be a blend designed to produce a coffee taste - even freeze dried. Gourmet might be replaced with the word exotic. They are picked to provide specific flavours and having some that don't relate to traditional coffee tastes isn't unusual. In fact I would say the majority don't. The beans will usually be arabica types. Retail blends may have robusta in them. Dismissed by some completely because of that which can just be a form of snobbery really writing it off having never discovered it's possibilities.

You may be better off with a blend but which one is tricky as you probably wont see taste description that says coffee. I found a blend ages ago that was described as suitable for commercial use. It was ok but I noticed a sewer type smell on my breath after drinking it.  Not sure what bean in it gave that. Asking a roaster what they do supply to commerce might help.

Lavazza. When I bought my first machine we had some and also bought a couple from supermarkets. One we liked french press was awful out of an espresso machine another better. I don't think these beans are really intended to be used in an espresso machine. They do produce a range that is. They keep well too.

https://www.lavazza.co.uk/en/business/ristoranti/coffee.html

One I like has become rather expensive Pien Aroma 100% arabica. More like fresh roasted in terms of ratio. The other 100% arabica didn't come anywhere near alive until the ratio got over 4 and IMHO not much good anyway. Others may need that as a commercial double might be based on 14 in and 60 out. Time is usually 30sec but some always go longer.

If you fancy trying something I like but easier to use maybe this one. Sounds like it might suite but no guarantee.

https://monsoonestates.co.uk/collections/coffee/products/the-bloke

Best mention that their monsooned really is oily beware.  I like it and can handle it.


----------



## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

antinwales said:


> OK, I appreciate this is probably not the place to be saying this, and I hope this doesn't come across as rude.
> I like better quality, interesting food and booze.
> Of particular relevance is my love of fruity, hoppy IPA, bitter-sweet negronis, and the hot lash of a vindaloo.
> I happily make sourdough & my own bacon & smoke meat for 10 hours so know of effort & learning to get better results.
> ...


Coffee compass - Brighton Lanes


----------



## Morningfuel (May 19, 2016)

Sounds like the beans are not rested. I find espresso need a minimum of 10 days, but really comes to life after 2-3 weeks.

Yes, it can be hard waiting that long! It pays off though. You'll also probably enjoy darker stuff - I've also got a bag of twilight resting from black cat and I'm quite excited about it.

I use a cafelat robot so I don't need to worry about temperature - it drops quite happily to about 88-91 degrees for extraction without a preheat.


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

antinwales said:


> OK, I appreciate this is probably not the place to be saying this, and I hope this doesn't come across as rude.
> 
> I like better quality, interesting food and booze.
> Of particular relevance is my love of fruity, hoppy IPA, bitter-sweet negronis, and the hot lash of a vindaloo.
> ...


 When you say weird, is this a dialing in problem? The sour, the sharpness, the bitter?

Just trying to establish what you think is weird lol.

What do you expect from a coffee?

I keep getting very crazy sour or very bitter flavours, bitter is what I expect as a burnt coffee/ instant thing. I love coffee flavoured cakes, puddings, sweets etc but coffee never seems to taste the same 🤷‍♂️


----------



## antinwales (Jan 16, 2021)

@Tinkstar Having left the Clifton Suspension longer, it's now less weird.

I'm not sure what I expected, and I'm not sure I'm there yet, but I'm definitely getting closer to what I was after.

I'll feedback more when I've drunk more.


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

antinwales said:


> @Tinkstar Having left the Clifton Suspension longer, it's now less weird.
> 
> I'm not sure what I expected, and I'm not sure I'm there yet, but I'm definitely getting closer to what I was after.
> 
> I'll feedback more when I've drunk more.


 Are you getting any 'flavours' from the flavours 'on the bag'?

I have had smooth, enjoyable, no flavours or notes as described 🤷‍♂️


----------



## antinwales (Jan 16, 2021)

@Tinkstar Not in the way you do with beer, wine and spirits. Even the non-drinkers love a sniff of the bourbon.

I tend to just think "What's that unwelcome citrus taste" .


----------



## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

antinwales said:


> tend to just think "What's that unwelcome citrus taste"


 My first efforts making espresso were using some freshly ground coffee from a roaster (before I bought a grinder) in which the flavour was overwhelmingly lemon. I really didn't like it. Lemon and coffee are 2 flavours I struggle to find compatible. I thought it was my dreadful coffee making technique (which to be fair, probably contributed) until someone pointed out it could be the citrus tasting notes. The beans I have bought since, I have stuck to the chocolate/fudge/caramel/vanilla/nuts spectrum. To be honest, I get none of these tasting notes at all really. I just get coffee. But at least I'm not getting fruit 😂 I am hoping my sense of taste will develop with practice.


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

antinwales said:


> @Tinkstar Not in the way you do with beer, wine and spirits. Even the non-drinkers love a sniff of the bourbon.
> 
> I tend to just think "What's that unwelcome citrus taste" .


 Haha not alone with this one 🤣 never expected sour or citrus, not like this 🤣


----------



## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Thumbs up for the Twilight Blend.

I thought I'd murdered the first one at 18 -> 40 in 38secs with 8 sec preinfusion but it was spot on.


----------



## ales (Feb 10, 2021)

I don't find anything wrong with your original post - I was born and grew up in Italy, so my taste for coffee was born that way, and still very much is. I've had some really high quality, expertly pulled coffees using fancy Square Mile beans from a good local cafe and I just did not like it. Soooo sweet, chocolatey and just different to what I'm looking for in a coffee.

It very much is a case of to each their own I guess. A good arabica/robusta blend is what works for me as I genuinely find it to taste much nicer that more 'modern' type blends no matter how smooth and sweet they are. You mention beers, I know lots of people who'll spend a fiver for a small can of 'craft' beer and I just find 85% of those are just extremely high alchool volume, body-less, overly dry hopped non events. Ultimately, they are very easy drinks to have, especially chilled, and many people love them for that, but again, not what I'm after if I'm going to have a beer.

I really don't think there is a right or wrong, it very much is a matter of taste. Within that range of taste, of course, you will find better and worse quality products, but since you mention Lavazza, I'd argue it isn't a horrible, low quality coffee as many will say. It's cheap mainly because it's mass produced compared to anything you'll get from local roasters, and uses widely grown beans. The flavour though is very much in line with classic Italian espresso blends which have simply become a standard over the many decades they have been enjoyed and have become what many will expect to taste when sipping on their morning cappuccino/espresso/caffelatte, so it will tick the right boxes for many, so chances are you and your family have basically reacted exactly the way your dad did when asking you if you had any "beers that taste like beer"...! And of course little point in letting trends or price tags dictate the judgement, that's a job for the palate. 🙂


----------



## Three Hills Coffee Co (Feb 22, 2021)

Quite important to remember that noone ever tries something for the first time and totally nails it, extracting coffee is tricky, we all enjoy differerent tastes and the beans themselves are varied and volatile. It takes time to work out what you enjoy and the fiddling and experimenting along the way are part of the fun.

I'd advise staying away from acidic east African stuff for instance and aim more towards solid South or Central Americans to start with as these are more forgiving, then play around a bit and see what you like and go from there.

Sounds like you are getting a wee bit hooked though and if you have ever wondered how to do something don't worry, at least twenty people will have made a youtube video explaining it in minute detail.

Good luck and don't sweat too much, just enjoy tinkering.


----------



## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

lake_m said:


> Thumbs up for the Twilight Blend.
> 
> I thought I'd murdered the first one at 18 -> 40 in 38secs with 8 sec preinfusion but it was spot on.


 Glad it is going down well, sounds like your taste is more for the darker roasts. Lots to experiment and try. I am sure some members can throw in suggestions for you. Definitely check out Coffee Compass at some point though.


----------



## Nightrider_1uk (Apr 26, 2020)

Coffee Compass's Mystery Blend No 13 is quite nice as was the Lock Down offer coffee that David @BlackCatCoffeeput on a little while ago.


----------



## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Glad it is going down well, sounds like your taste is more for the darker roasts. Lots to experiment and try. I am sure some members can throw in suggestions for you. Definitely check out Coffee Compass at some point though.


 I've tried most of the CC stuff, it's ok. I tend to hit on something then get bored and move on. Twilight is really nice though and I've just ordered some more.


----------



## joe.barista (Nov 12, 2013)

I would concentrate on origin and processing. Often a well processed natural Brazil is a great gateway coffee that is recognisably "coffee" in character (chocolate, nuts, light berry sweetness, caramels). This is not to say that Brazil's are incapable of delivering more interesting cup profiles. Hasbean currently have a beautiful selection of Brazil coffees, many from the same farms but processed differently or offering different varietals.

I would recommend that as a solid starting point.


----------



## antinwales (Jan 16, 2021)

I think I'm repeating myself, but Twilight is the best coffee I've had since I started on this journey.
However, I think my technique has now improved, including my patented "Split Grind" technique.
Grind 8 seconds, tap, grind 2.5 seconds more (to get 19g), tap. Tamp.
Extract, dropping the pressure using the water control to 9bar initially, then up again to get volume up.
19g in, 36g out in 30 seconds was superb.
I'm even going to try the bottomless later!!


----------

