# DB serviced today



## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

Had my DB serviced and repaired today by Coffee Classics as it was leaking steam. Glad I did as it needed a good going over by the sounds of it from the Engineer. Leaking steam was fairly obvious but the main buttons on the front had a slight electrical buzzing noise when pressing at times.

Basically the machine had a new solenoid valve, hot water tap needle valve, complete set of o-rings and boiler probes cleaned. Also carried out a de-scale whilst the engineer was here, which I'm so glad he did due to this being problematic with these machines. Mine had the problem of displaying 'valves' at the end of the cycle, which apparently is caused by the boiler probes still being wet. I would of been stuck at this point but Nick the engineer had seen this previously so knew what to do.

Had a good look inside whist it was apart and it looked nice a clean, much better than I thought given it had a couple of leaks.

Machine is now as good as new and ready for the next few years service.


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## Dumnorix (Dec 29, 2017)

Nice to hear these can be serviced- you are sometimes led to believe that when they start to have problems there are no other options but to ditch them.


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

Certainly can. I believe Coffee Classics do the warrantee work for Sage in the UK. Mine's out of warrantee so I had pay but worthwhile to make sure it's sorted properly.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Dumnorix said:


> Nice to hear these can be serviced- you are sometimes led to believe that when they start to have problems there are no other options but to ditch them.


Near everything is repairable. Depending on the fault it can sometimes be more financially viable just to replace though, especially if not doing it yourself.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DO Classics do a fixed price service deal or is it turn up and see what happens?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I had seen hints that the valve error can be down to level probes not scale blocking the drains. More likely in fact. Another forum reckons that the O ring life is around 3 years or so. That is put over as a consensus rather than one persons view. Sometimes the coating on the plate over the group head that is separately heated bubbles / comes off. Solenoids fail on all machines at some point. One comment on the 3 way is that it can be dismantled and cleaned out but these sort of things do wear out as do other purely mechanical valves. The pumps will wear out at some point







at least there are 2 so each get a bit of a rest and thanks I suspect to the level sensing don't run any more than they need do ie less than some other machines.

I have a feeling that regular descaling with the right type of descaler and back flushing will help. One thing that surprises me is the amount of grounds that finish up in the drip tray. Way way more than on my BE - exuberant 3 way IMHO.








I think I have found another quirk, need to check more. Sage suggest a brief flush before pulling a shot. Need to do more but suspect that adds another 6 ml to my shots as the pipes etc are full.

The interesting thing to know would be the price for the work. It's nothing really that a number of people could cope with as they do on other makes of machine. There use of O rings is perhaps a bit unusual but it's pretty obvious what needs to be done to replace them - pull out a small spring clip. That sounds nasty compared with screw in / push fit etc but the method they use should work rather well. O rings well they perish etc and it's a tough life for them especially on the steam boiler.

John

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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

When I called I had a fault to repair so that gave them an indication of what to expect, I'm pretty sure he had most of the common components on his van anyway. Basically it was £90 + vat for the call out with £25 per half hour plus parts, total was about £240. If I had opted to take my machine to one of their workshops it would of been a lot cheaper as it would of removed the call out charge but I was being lazy.

Don't believe they do offer a fixed price as it could be any number of items that need attention. My machine is a few years old now, been through three owners and only required two £30 items replacing. The bulk of the cost was call out and labour so really it's not bad considering.


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## MAXlMUS (Oct 12, 2018)

Not a bad price, I remember Nouva cost me a fortune!


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

MAXlMUS said:


> Not a bad price, I remember Nouva cost me a fortune!


I figured that the price I paid for the machine plus this service is still way lower than a new machine so happy with that.

Hopefully it will provide a few more years of good service


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Going on comments on another forum Breville in the USA did offer a sort of fixed price deal. Provided a packing case to send it to them and another machine returned. Wasn't clear if this would be the same machine or if it was done on a rotating basis - one in and another out. Cost from memory was a bit over $200. Very probably win in a lot of cases and loose on less.

I do know that Sage have told Coffee Classics that they want to handle spares themselves. I tried direct as some parts I had ordered before clearly came from them. What this will mean for diy repairs pass. If it means that Sage want to take a cut of the engineers travelling time etc I'd say it makes purchasing a used Sage machine a bit of a dubious option. Not that any make of espresso machine goes on problem free for ever but part can it seems be obtained pretty easily on other makes.

It's not that unusual for a brand to sell parts themselves but it's generally backed up with parts lists and diagrams or pretty detailed web pages.







I did ask Sage about parts lists. The lady said can't provide those for obvious reason.







I wish I had asked what those reasons were.

John

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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

It reminds me of that old joke, How do you double the value of a Lada Niva? Buy a road Fund licence!


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> It reminds me of that old joke, How do you double the value of a Lada Niva? Buy a road Fund licence!


http://


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ajohn said:


> Going on comments on another forum Breville in the USA did offer a sort of fixed price deal. Provided a packing case to send it to them and another machine returned. Wasn't clear if this would be the same machine or if it was done on a rotating basis - one in and another out. Cost from memory was a bit over $200. Very probably win in a lot of cases and loose on less.
> 
> I do know that Sage have told Coffee Classics that they want to handle spares themselves. I tried direct as some parts I had ordered before clearly came from them. What this will mean for diy repairs pass. If it means that Sage want to take a cut of the engineers travelling time etc I'd say it makes purchasing a used Sage machine a bit of a dubious option. Not that any make of espresso machine goes on problem free for ever but part can it seems be obtained pretty easily on other makes.
> 
> ...


Yeah. This was one of the reasons why I went La Pavoni europiccola. I was considering a sage, but when I started researching for spare parts, gaskets, etc, etc, I didn't go very far. Shame though.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Yeah. This was one of the reasons why I went La Pavoni europiccola. I was considering a sage, but when I started researching for spare parts, gaskets, etc, etc, I didn't go very far. Shame though.


Really DIY repairs are a bit of an unknown until some one tries to do one. I'll be in the mood in the not too distant future.







In my case it would be sensible to replace the O rings and maybe the rear shower screen as they call it as it's nearly showing signs of blistering.

John

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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

You might already have come across it - but this looks like handy info in general for repairs - thought it's just a shame they aren't links to UK sites .


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

jlarkin said:


> You might already have come across it - but this looks like handy info in general for repairs - thought it's just a shame they aren't links to UK sites .


????????????? I see no link.









John

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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

The missing link! http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/726121


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

jlarkin said:


> The missing link! http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/726121


Interesting one. I try and collect them. I've not read all of the posts on it so the following may be mentioned.

Not so sure about the 3 beep solution. My first refurbed DB did it and some searches came up with what could be a common reason but it seems only on one software release. Steam boiler being heated with insufficient water in it. That blows a thermal fuse which may be pig to get at going on the comments. It may also burn out the heater. In my case the pumps didn't run correctly for some reason - probably an airlock. Things got hot enough to give steam and no beeps but not long after no steam and beeps all in the same power up. So any software release may do this if tank filling goes wrong.

The other one is the dreaded valve error during descale. This looks to usually be down to the level probes needing cleaning not scale blocking the drain valves. People have had engineers clean the probes but haven't mentioned what they did. A scale blockage should be pretty easy to deal with. There is a video showing how to do one on DB's pre the valves being added - that's what it suggests. Just remove all of the connections / probes to the boiler, syphon out any liquid in it and pour in a descale solution and leave the drain tap open. I'd use durgol mixed with boiling water for this. When flow starts it may pay to close the drain for a while and then open it again.

Not sure about O ring material. I took a look at what the manufacturers recommend. Hot and steam silicone but not super hot steam. Brew boiler - viton should be ok but if some one has silicone may as well use them there anyway. On the other hand if it turned out to be a good idea to change them say every 12months so what.

John

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## talal (Dec 15, 2018)

ajohn said:


> I had seen hints that the valve error can be down to level probes not scale blocking the drains. More likely in fact. Another forum reckons that the O ring life is around 3 years or so. That is put over as a consensus rather than one persons view. *Sometimes the coating on the plate over the group head that is separately heated bubbles / comes off.* Solenoids fail on all machines at some point. One comment on the 3 way is that it can be dismantled and cleaned out but these sort of things do wear out as do other purely mechanical valves. The pumps will wear out at some point
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you know if the bubbling/peeling impacts performance? im trying to isolate an issue with my barista express as its leaking water over the portafilter under pressure, changed the o ring but still doing it...

Dont want to pay coffee classics £150+ to have a go at fixing it without any guarantee they will manage to repair it...


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

talal said:


> Do you know if the bubbling/peeling impacts performance? im trying to isolate an issue with my barista express as its leaking water over the portafilter under pressure, changed the o ring but still doing it...


Re the peeling...I remember back in the 80s people genuinely thought those pinstripes you stuck on the side of the car genuinely made it go faster....e.g. improved performance.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

talal said:


> Do you know if the bubbling/peeling impacts performance? im trying to isolate an issue with my barista express as its leaking water over the portafilter under pressure, changed the o ring but still doing it...
> 
> Dont want to pay coffee classics £150+ to have a go at fixing it without any guarantee they will manage to repair it...


All you should need to do is replace the part marked steam ring here

https://www.sageappliances.com/uk/en/products/espresso/parts-accessories.BES875.html








Pass on why they are calling it a steam ring. A video would help showing what the pressure gauge is doing as well.

John

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