# Profitec 700 recovery time



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have my pid set to 93. When I pull a shot over 30 seconds for arguments sake,the temp drops down to about 87 (from memory, but I will double check this tomorrow). By the time I have ejected the puck, wiped out the pf and then ground back in which takes 30 seconds or so, it has not recovered to 93. I wonder two things. Would setting it to 94 make any difference or alternately, could any 700 owners just check for the above on the next couple of shots they pull. It might just be me not being used to the extra information the display gives


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Not a profitec owner but that seems a bit Amis . Pid on the V stays at temp. From memory when I scaced it it was solid once it hit temp . A potential drop of 6 degrees ( this is during the shot? ) . Doesnt seem right


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

is it plumbed in or tank fed ? ..... a lot of DBs feed the brew boiler via HX from the steam boiler to minimise a temperature drop but the P700 doesn't do this. So its recovery must in some part be affected by the temperature of the incoming water .... are you mains fed and live in scotland ?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am mains fed and live in Newcastle.....nearly Scotland but not quite......


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> I am mains fed and live in Newcastle.....nearly Scotland but not quite......


So it that temp drop as the shot progresses ?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> So it that temp drop as the shot progresses ?


you cannot tell as once you start the shot the display changes into a timer


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> you cannot tell as once you start the shot the display changes into a timer


are ok - different to my mahcine

Looking at some scace stuff on HB review - it indicated it was pretty rock solid temp wise intra shot and recovery

But then again there are posts that match your experience also

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/profitec-pro-700-brew-temperature-stability-t39345.html


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

My Rocket does the same, sometimes... drops about 6c.

Where do these PID's measure the temp?


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

The same issue has been discussed on CFUK as well, few people confirmed that 700 drops the temperature after each shot.

I'm on mobile so I can't link it, but I believe no one found a solution or an explanation for it.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

does it make a difference if the steam boiler is on or not ? .... I know they are not joined, but a 120deg steam boiler must in some part help keep temps more stable .... if nothing more than preheating the water tank if you dont mains feed

edit: and is it possible to turn the shot timer off to see at what point the tempt starts dropping, although I think its safe to say it will be as soon as cold water starts flowing in to the tank


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

Doesn't tell much really, the display reading is only useful when in idle, when engaging a pump it draws cold water into the boiler and if the sensor is anywhere near the entrance from the pump then a drop in temp on the display is to be expected. The only useful reading is done with a scace!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mine is line fed so at the moment, it is drawing in water through the filter, but presumably the water in the filter is getting the chance to warm up a little before being taken into the machine. I wonder if it is a case of too much information. if a dial is telling you the temp is wrong that is going to have a psychosomatic effect!

any thoughts jeebsy!


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Mine does the same, drops to 86. I have tried with and without the steam boiler and it makes no noticable difference.

Generally it is not annoying as I am not normally making a shop straight after, but sometimes it is an issue, i.e when I mess up the shot, bin it and try to make another. I can be waiting around for heat to catch up.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

h1udd said:


> does it make a difference if the steam boiler is on or not ? .... I know they are not joined, but a 120deg steam boiler must in some part help keep temps more stable .... if nothing more than preheating the water tank if you dont mains feed


AFAIK the Pro 700 alternates the current between the steam boiler and brew boiler by default. As a result, either shutting the service boiler off or setting them to work concurrently might improve the temperature stability.

I might be wrong, but that's what I have read on the Internet. I don't have a machine.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I do not think it is an issue really. it is just when it stares you in the face and reads 91 when you are ready to pull your next shot. We are only talking a few seconds and if I did not have the pid, I would not have known and pulled the shot anyway!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Brewtus doesn't drop that much, never really seen it vary more than 1 degree either side of what it's set at


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

A little bit offtopic, but can you have a reading of the actual temperature on Rocket machines? I've seen some videos saying you have to turn the machine off and on for some reason while plugging in the PID controller, so I wasn't sure in the end.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Yes, it shows the brew boiler temp on the PID.

You should only unplug the PID when the machine is turned off.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Well at least the group isn't going thru the same fluctuations, so I wouldn't worry about it....it will be an effect localised to the sensor and water input path.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> Well at least the group isn't going thru the same fluctuations, so I wouldn't worry about it....it will be an effect localised to the sensor and water input path.


of course!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

PPapa said:


> The same issue has been discussed on CFUK as well, few people confirmed that 700 drops the temperature after each shot.
> 
> I'm on mobile so I can't link it, but I believe no one found a solution or an explanation for it.


Profitec 700 anybody got one?

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=19480


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

PPapa said:


> AFAIK the Pro 700 alternates the current between the steam boiler and brew boiler by default. As a result, either shutting the service boiler off or setting them to work concurrently might improve the temperature stability.
> 
> I might be wrong, but that's what I have read on the Internet. I don't have a machine.


You can change so both boilers work together, independently from each other.

Makes no difference in the sense of the recovery time as indicated by the PID display.


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

After pulling a 40g shot, the brew boiler element needs to on for about 20s in total to heat the incoming water (in addition to the usual duty cycle needed to maintain temperature). This is unavoidable, it could be 20s at full power, 40s at half on half off etc. If the temperature sensor picks up the temperature drop sooner then all the better. If a machine doesn't register a change in temperature, and so doesn't turn on the elements for longer, then it will actually take longer to get back to equilibrium. So, all is good.


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## DC63 (Jan 16, 2011)

just pulled a 38g shot at 94c dropped to 90c after shot, took 15 seconds to reach 94c. Both boilers on together.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I think this just echoes what Dave said, but if your group is up to temp it should be doing a job of stabilizing the temp so the brew boiler temp certainly won't tell the whole tale.

If you fancy experimenting and finding out the real temp a cheaper method than a Scace is to pull the shower screen and dispersion plate off and poke a k-type cheapo eBay thermometer into the small hole that exists the group above the dispersion plate. This should give you a fairly accurate readying of what the brew water temp is.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Dylan said:


> I think this just echoes what Dave said, but if your group is up to temp it should be doing a job of stabilizing the temp so the brew boiler temp certainly won't tell the whole tale. .


Exactly...in normal domestic use I don't think you got a problem...if you have a home cafe or a family of 20? like Ronsil, then you might begin to notice a problem with temp stability.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@Dylan, @dfk41, should we discuss the thermal stability of the Pro 700 here?

So, to follow up the last post from Dylan, how are other e61 DB machines built, like the Verona for example? Are the water inlet and the brew boiler sensor at the bottom of the boiler?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

am quite happy to chip in......will do some very unscientific checks on the water temp leaving the group (does anyone have an Erocs?) compared to th pid display


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Check the opening post here: There's a thermometer on the group (like Eric's one, but a different make) and seems to tally up:

Vidastech E61 group thermometer

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D31827&share_tid=31827&share_fid=6813&share_type=t

Maybe @zuluafonu can chip in?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

using chrome I have tried to translate his pages but I gave up! I tried to order 3 but perhaps we have a loran speaking member who can help!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I forgot we had talked about this before.

It's easy enough to check the exploded diagrams for other machines. A quick look at the VBM Domobar for example shows both the steam and brew are fed from the bottom.

As has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, some other manufacturers use a HX from the steam boiler.

Beyond looking at exploded parts diagrams i can't have much input here however as i have never used a 700.


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## zuluafonu (Dec 3, 2015)

I finished this video along with a routine for accurate temp extraction when changing PID temp. I tried different flush and idle period combinations, this one seems to work. It could probably be improved, maybe shorter flushes with shorter idle periods between flush and extraction. If I'll find something easier, I'll let you know. I allowed many minutes for the massive grouphead to adjust to the PID changes. As I was watching the end result I noticed that the shots with the grouphead 5C below PID settings are almost spot on. I'll try to come up with a routine based on that, instead of fixed flush and idle periods. Not sure anyone would sense the difference of 0.2C but I'll try it, because I enjoyed doing this! Hope you will do the same!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

That's a great video @zuluafonu. I have one question though. What's the recovery time? Say, how long do you have to wait in between shots so the temperature is stable again? One of the observations (and you observed too) is that the temperature on the PID display goes down by 4C-5C after a shot. How's that in comparison to the group? Thanks in advance.


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