# How I insulated the boiler on my Isomac Tea machine.



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Since we now have an ISOMAC thread I thought I'd post some pictures of how I insulated the boiler on my Isomac Tea machine.

I used an A4 sheet of Silicone Sponge that I purchased on eBay;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230688253972?var=530036104237&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I purchased the 10mm thick sheet but found space VERY tight when wrapping it around the boiler and if I did it again I would probably buy the 5mm thick instead.

I made a template by wrapping a sheet of A4 paper around the boiler and marking the position of the various valves and probe on the top of the boiler.







View attachment 7631


The actual sheet of silicone is wider than the width of the boiler but too short to wrap fully around it. Fortunately the amount of extra width is exactly the amount needed to complete the wrap around the boiler.









In order to keep the "extra" bit in place and make things easier to work with I glued a strip of baking foil onto the back of the silicone sheet where the overlap occurs. I used some spray on carpet glue that I had available but I guess any glue would do as once things are actually in place it doesn't matter if the glue continues to hold or not (due to the heat).









Wrapping the silicone sheet around the boiler was tricky as the thickness was greater than the gap between boiler and the thermo syphon pipework. It took a fair bit of wiggling and pushing to force he sheet around and I would recommend getting the 5mm thick sponge rather than the 10mm.









Originally I was going to hold everything in place with some cable ties but given that I couldn't actually find the bag of cable ties that I *know* I have, the silicone sheet is actually tied in place with some thin synthetic ribbon that I found in my wife's craft room ... shhhh... she doesn't know.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Because I had actually bought two sheets of sponge I also insulated one end of the boiler as well. Again I made a simple paper template to find the position of the pipework.









A split is made in the disc of sponge to allow the disc to slipped around the pipework and hold itself in place.









One unanticipated problem was that after fitting the sponge there was no gap between the boiler and the back of the metal water tank shelf. This means there is no space for the existing OPV tubing to go up and back over to the left to exit into the water tank. The solution to this is buy a longer silicone tube and run it along the bottom of the boiler and then bring it up around the right-hand side of the boiler and back along the top.

The tubing is 5mm inner diameter and 8mm outer diameter and was bought off eBay for £3.20 a meter; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261112388696?var=560162770884&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

The insulation is definitely doing its job as I find the boiler pressure gauge now cycles much slower, and I also find the machine is slightly quieter, presumably because the sponge acts as a sound absorbing material.

I still need to find a way to insulate the thermo syphon tubing, as they still radiate a lot of heat inside the case over time.


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

Thanks for posting this procedure Marcus, it not only inspires me to follow your lead but gives me the information I need to be able to!

When adjusting my OPV, it was a real fiddle to ensure no kinks in the OPV tubing when closing up the machine, your idea of extending and re-routing the tube is good and I'll be doing the same before long.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks for the kind words Rod, and thank you for getting us our own thread







I think we must be the only Isomac users on here!

When I originally tried routing the existing tube underneath I also ended up with a severe kink, in fact so severe that water was getting around the barbed part of the OPV and leaking inside the machine. I only noticed when I came back to the machine after making a coffee earlier and found the kitchen worktop awash with water. A longer hose definitely makes things easier and safer.


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

2 sheets of the 5mm and 1 metre of tubing ordered as well as a replacement green light and a spare red and green for the next time one goes! Now when the back comes off next time I'll do the insulation, change the green light and tweak the OPV to give 9 bar instead of 9.5 ... busy, busy!


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Great thread. I was looking to insulate the boiler on my Andreja with pond fleece at some point but this is another option


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks urbanbumpkin

I think pond fleece will be cheaper and easier to work with but I'm not sure how good an insulator it is. I think it's primary purpose is protect the pond liner from punctures isn't it ? The silicone sponge is more expensive but at least intended as an insulator so I would assume its better, but who knows?


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

An afterthought: a while back I bought some heavy aluminium foil to insulate the backs of some radiators on outside walls and it seems to be having an effect. I've a little left over so will give it a try inside the 5mm insulating sheets around the boiler. The link to the foil is: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Radflek-Radiator-Reflectors-Adhesive-Radiators/dp/B008GYPT6C/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1402922447&sr=1-1&keywords=Radflek+Radiator+Reflectors (if there's room for it and it works, I'll report back!)


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

centaursailing said:


> 2 sheets of the 5mm and 1 metre of tubing ordered as well as a replacement green light and a spare red and green for the next time one goes! Now when the back comes off next time I'll do the insulation, change the green light and tweak the OPV to give 9 bar instead of 9.5 ... busy, busy!


Don't forget some long cable ties... or ribbon







Don't forget to keep us informed or progress and post some pictures when you're done.

Do you really want to adjust your OPV down to 9 bar ? Is that when pulling a shot or with a blank basket (static). I always thought it suggested to be 1bar over when static to allow for the slight drop in pressure when the water can seep through the puck.


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

I should have some long ties (like you I know they are somewhere). 9 bar is what I've seen recommended several times. I adjusted down to 9.5 using a metal blind filter but have noted when pulling shots that it settles on 9.5, going down to 9 will be my final step and may just help my quest to banish the last tiny spritzer or two.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

centaursailing said:


> An afterthought: a while back I bought some heavy aluminium foil to insulate the backs of some radiators on outside walls and it seems to be having an effect. I've a little left over so will give it a try inside the 5mm insulating sheets around the boiler. The link to the foil is: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Radflek-Radiator-Reflectors-Adhesive-Radiators/dp/B008GYPT6C/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1402922447&sr=1-1&keywords=Radflek+Radiator+Reflectors (if there's room for it and it works, I'll report back!)


Interesting. Our radiators are mostly old style column radiators so I'd need to be able to paint it to match the wall behind it otherwise you'd see it through the radiator itself.

Is it stiff or is it bendable like thin card ? If its thin and bendable it may be more useful to use it to insulate the HX/thermo syphon pipes as these still kick out a lot of heat inside the case.


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

It is stiffish (is that a word?) and bendable, so it can be rolled around the hanger that sits on the radiator brackets. Good idea on the pipes, but being metallic I think it's more of a reflector than an insulator. hahaha why not get those men round that pump insulating foam into cavity walls to completely fill the machine? (only joking)


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

I may just order a couple of the thin (2-3mm) sheets of the silicone sponge to wrap around the pipes.

If I have enough left over I fancy making a "tea cosy" if you'll pardon the pun, to put over the E61 head to help it heat up quicker. At the moment I tend to wrap a tea towel around it when I first turn it on so I can make a coffee after about 20mins.


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

Good idea and it explains why I've seen tea towels wrapped around group heads! That's another brick in the wall ... big wall though isn't it?


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

centaursailing said:


> Good idea and it explains why I've seen tea towels wrapped around group heads! That's another brick in the wall ... big wall though isn't it?


Lots of different bricks too


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

Not to mention all the different builders and their varying skillsets ... hahaha this could run for quite a while!


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

...and all the different styles of buildings that are made with those bricks.


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks for the tip regarding insulating a boiler.

I used the 5mm stuff and it seems to hold the temp much better. I had to use 1 and bit sheets of the A4 and tied it with a couple of long cable ties.

I've lined it with foil baking parchment, not sure if it's the "done" thing but was just a last minute thought.

apologies for the poor quality photo from the camera phone.

Note new presure stat too









View attachment 7822


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Looks good urban. Your boiler looks a bit bigger than the one on my Tea so not surprising you needed more than one sheet. Having a vertical boiler looks like it gives you more room to work as well. Are you going to try wrapping the leftovers around the pipe work? I just ordered some 3mm stuff to do them on mine.

I've also noticed that along with better heat stability I'm also getting slightly better steaming with about 0.1bar more pressure according to the gauge.


----------



## cracked_bean (Apr 13, 2014)

centaursailing said:


> An afterthought: a while back I bought some heavy aluminium foil to insulate the backs of some radiators on outside walls and it seems to be having an effect. I've a little left over so will give it a try inside the 5mm insulating sheets around the boiler. The link to the foil is: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Radflek-Radiator-Reflectors-Adhesive-Radiators/dp/B008GYPT6C/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1402922447&sr=1-1&keywords=Radflek+Radiator+Reflectors (if there's room for it and it works, I'll report back!)


In passing I want to mention that the reason this works well for the radiator is that it emits heat primarily through radiation which is reflected by perfect white bodies (shiny foil). As such it probably isn't perfectly suited but if it is facing the boiler it should help to some degree. Just make sure if you use the foil plus a padding that the foil is on the inside.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks for the post cracked_bean. Being a heat reflector rather than an heat insulator probably means its not good for keeping the heat in the pipes but maybe it could be used for keeping heat away from the switches and dials at the top of the machine. Of course with the machine being all metal there would still be an issue with conductive heat which could cause worse issues if it was then trapped behind the reflector. On balance I think I'll stick with adding some insulation around the pipe work.


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

The boiler of my Isomac Tea is now insulated as described by marcuswar. There were some differences and I've taken some photos of the process but I can't seem to post them. I'll have to do some research to try and find somewhere I can store them online free and then include the links.

Following Marcus' suggestion I bought the 5mm thickness for the insulation sheets but there's no way they fit between the boiler and copper pipe leading up from under the boiler to the brew group. In fact, it was difficult to get the aluminium sheet: ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Radflek-Radi...tor+Reflectors ) between them and that must be less than 0.5 mm thick! I used the aluminium sticky tape that came with the sheets to secure it in place around the boiler. My solution was the cut the insulation sheet so that the edges would lie either side of the copper pipe as there was no way it'd go between it and the boiler. I guess Isomac changed the size of the boiler between Marcus' version and my 2012 version.

Also on Marcus' suggestion, I bought a metre of the tubing and I'm really glad of it because Isomac hadn't left any excess on the lengths they installed, as a result there was a risk of crimping the tube whenever replacing the cover. After starting the insulation job, this risk became an inevitability because the inner S/S fitting (on which the water tank stands) is up against the insulation around the boiler. A couple of tubing runs were re-routed under the boiler so that the poly "Y" connectors are now in free space to the right and rear (when looking at the machine from the front as if pulling a shot). In fact 1 metre might not have been sufficient if the discarded lengths weren't recycled for use where shorter lengths would suffice.

The job is now complete and I've tested it with the cover on but removed it again for a couple of days while in use to be sure that all is okay before finally closing it up.


----------



## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

cracked_bean said:


> In passing I want to mention that the reason this works well for the radiator is that it emits heat primarily through radiation which is reflected by perfect white bodies (shiny foil).


I'm hating typing this as it's so anal, but the physicist in me can't help it!.....

Radiators emit heat by conduction not radiation


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

oh my gosh seeq you are alive


----------



## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Barely. Been very busy and now have a new born baby to contend with. I've missed this place so just had to come back!


----------



## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

I've often wondered why commercial espresso machine manufacturers don't lag their boilers, or at least lag the side & rear panels.

Maybe lagging the panels will create too much internal heat which will cook the ECU etc......


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

seeq said:


> Barely. Been very busy and now have a new born baby to contend with. I've missed this place so just had to come back!


good to see longer term members return to the fold, even if for just a while, take it the gaggia is still going strong


----------



## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Yeah. It's now 13 years old and still running brilliantly. Need the money for an upgrade soon though.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

good luck with that a little one!


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Rod, glad you got the Tea insulated, looking forward to seeing the pictures









I think each post is limited to 5 images but other than that I'm not sure why you would be having issues posting them. Are you uploading them by clicking on the "image" icon on the toolbar rather than simply pasting into the editor ?

I'm not sure why you had an issue getting the sponge between the pipe and boiler as I don't think they Isomac changed the boiler size (but they may have) may be the pipe lengths are different ? I think mine is a Tea 1 (as it has no vents on the side) but it does have a stainless steel boiler (1.2 ltr), does yours have the same or does it have the copper boiler ?

Regarding the re-routing of the OVP, from what I've read the plastic "Y" connector is a potential weak point that tends to break down with the heat and cause leaks. Ferrari Espresso sell a brass version of the "Y" connector that should prevent that scenario although from memory its more of a "T" connector than a "Y". The previous owner of mine removed the air venting/priming valve completely and so I have no "Y" connector at all, just a single tube venting from the OPV.


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

Red face time for me, I was trying to drag the image into the typing window! Thanks for pointing out the 'insert image' button Marcus, what makes it worse is I must have used it to insert the picture for adjusting the OPV - doh!

I'll get the pictures trimmed up and ready to post soon.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

centaursailing said:


> Red face time for me, I was trying to drag the image into the typing window! Thanks for pointing out the 'insert image' button Marcus, what makes it worse is I must have used it to insert the picture for adjusting the OPV - doh!
> 
> I'll get the pictures trimmed up and ready to post soon.


yep 5 images per post

other than that you can upload to something like photobucket and link it back here to do more ...


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

centaursailing said:


> Red face time for me, I was trying to drag the image into the typing window! Thanks for pointing out the 'insert image' button Marcus, what makes it worse is I must have used it to insert the picture for adjusting the OPV - doh!
> 
> I'll get the pictures trimmed up and ready to post soon.


Hi Rod, Glad you got it sorted. You can cut and paste (or drag into the editor) as I have done it myself but its not as reliable as I assume there must be limits on image resolution , format and also issues with embedded links etc. Its much safer to simply "insert image". If you have more than 5 images and don't want to mess around with an external hosting site you can just post multiple replies

Looking forward to seeing the images.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

I stumbled across this link ; http://www.1st-line.com/store/pc/Isomac-Tea-Commercial-Espresso-Machine-93p4285.htm

that states the newer Tea3 (which I *think* is just the USA version of Tea2) comes with a newer 1.4 litre boiler so if that's true then your boiler may well be slightly larger Rod.

The boiler in the image looks different to mine in that mine has a large seam around the middle like two cups joined together.









and the Tea3 is completely smooth.


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

Here's how I insulated the boiler of my Isomac Tea II (2012), however I won't be including pictures on my hands which suffered from rather too close contact with a number of sharp metallic edges! This first picture was used to show how to adjust the OPV but gives a view of boiler before I started work:









The second picture was about the best view I could get to show the closeness to the back of the boiler of the pipe going to the group head:









More to follow in the next post


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

Following Marcus' example, I used paper to mark out and prepare templates (one to go round the boiler and another for one end (as Marcus did) which were then used for marking up on the stiff but flexible aluminium sheets left over from putting relfectors behiand our radiators on outside walls. ( The link to the foil is: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Radflek-Radi...tor+Reflectors ). As mentioned in a previous post there was very little room between the boiler and the pipe to the grouphead, the foil shows the scuff marks and my hands bear testimoney to the struggles! The is how the boiler looks with the foil in place using the self-adhesive aluminium strips that came in the pack with the reflector foil:









The strap-like thing seen around the centre of the boiler above is a tape measure which the end sellotaped to hold it in place while measuring around the boiler.

View of the end piece









Next bit deals with overcoming the inaccessible area between pipe to group head and the boiler.


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

A few days later I returned to the job satisfied that there were no leaks resulting from my previous efforts. The next job was to mark up a template using the 5mm thick insulation sheet allowing for the area where it would have to be cut so that it lay snugly each side of the pipe to the group head because after struggling to get the aluminium foil between them, there's now way anything else was going to fit there as well. Using a digital (alas defunct battery) vernier gauge, the distance from each end of the boiler to one side of the pipe was measured ...









... and the gauge was used to mark up the temple on the insulation itself


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

Next the final 'offering-up' (I won't be confessing how many times I 'offered-up!) and using the longest black cable ties the were stocked at B&Q, first the body-wrap around the boiler was strapped into place and then the end piece. I had to use the cable ties and attach them to the cable ties around the boiler because the self-adhesive backing of the aluminium would stick to the insulation material. This is how it all looks now:









Ooops, this picture needs rotating 90 degrees anticlockwise.

As Marcus discovered, some of the silicone tubes needed re-routing under/over the boiler because any added thickness behind the boiler wouldn't allow the casing carrying the water tank to be fixed into place without compressing them against the insulation on the boiler. Fortunately I'd bought a metre based on Marcus' advice and was able to carry out the job.

It's such a delight to see the green light staying on longer before pressure drops enough for the red light to come on, the job is saving money already and it'll be interesting to see, over time, just how much of a cost benefit it turns out to be.

My reflections on the job (68 year old talking now, i.e. with back problems due to arthritis and an back operation some years ago) are that I had to tackle to job in portions because the fiddly nature of offering up & adjusting templates before cutting kept me in an uncomfortable position longer than I can usually cope with. The first portion therefore was the initial paper template, the second the aluminium casing and the third fitting & securing the insulating material in place. All this being said, I'm pleased that I undertook and completed the job because apart from saving electricity, it's made me more familiar with the insides of the machine and I'm hoping this might (with a bit of advice from the forum when available) give me confidence to keep my set-up working for many years to come.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Great write up Rod, and lots of great pictures. I'm sure this will help inspire others to give it a go









I'm not sure using the foil is absolutely necessary but it can't do any harm. I can see what you mean about how close the pipework was to the boiler, it's certainly closer than in mine. Have you insulated both ends of the boiler or just one end? I've currently only done one end but do intend to do the element end at some point in the future.

I totally agree with your comment that this all helps get you familiar with the internal workings of your machine and gives you confidence to tackling maintenance jobs in the future.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

I was just looking at your pictures again and its interesting to note the difference between the Tea 1 and 2. The boiler in your image looks the same as the boiler in the spec I found previously i.e. different to mine so I guess the Tea2 does have a slightly larger boiler (1.4). I wonder if mine is actually the copper version even though its silver in colour (plated) , mine id definitely shinier and not the dull finish of yours?

The other change they did on the Tea2, which you can clearly see in your photos is the addition of the support brackets for the boiler.

Your wiring also looks to be sheathed in silicone rather than the glass fibre that's in mine.

Your control board is also wrapped in plastic, presumably to help protect it from any water leaks. I'm always amazed at how little protection the wiring has from 240volts in espresso machines (and washing machines for that matter).


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

Thanks for your kind comments Marcus, but to be fair it was you that inspired me to take on the job by giving the lead









I think my boiler is SS but I'm not sure about the boiler capacity. The plastic cover over the electrics is a godsend as when changing the tubes some water did spill in that direction, happily the plastic did the job intended and no harm done.

Like you, I only insulated one end of the boiler, the other end looks much more of a challenge!

What next? Oh yes! A latte would be nice ...


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks Rod.. lets just pat each other on the back and say well done to each other..









I think next things on my list are;

Insulate the HX pipework.

Strip down and clean OPV, I may even replace with a better quality one.

Add an X10 relay to allow my home automation server to turn the machine on/off for me (in effect a bit like a WeMo)

Make a "Tea" cosy for the brew head to aid in initial heating up. At the moment I'm just wrapping it in a tea towel.

A low water level buzzer.

Add some form of autofill for the water reservoir - this is probably my biggest big bear at the moment when the machine runs out of water in the middle of pulling a shot. It should be quite easy to add a simple cistern style float and valve but my worry would be that the valve or float breaks and floods the kitchen so I'm toying with the idea of using washing machine style valve and energising it in line with the pump so it only fills when its pulling a shot and emptying the tank.

Add some form of temperature display for the brew temperature.


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

Wow Marcus that's quite a list, do you feel like you are on a slippery slope?









Seriously though, I like the idea of some form of temperature display for the brew temperature. At present I'm simply flushing until the flow from the shower screen becomes a stable single stream, the amount to achieve this is pretty much filling an 8oz latte mug!

Also I'm with you on the inconvenience of the water tank cut-out interrupting a shot but have always thought the best solution to that is simply to get the machine plumbed i, but latterly, after doing something inside the machine and checking all is okay before replacing the casing, think a viewing panel in the side would be a good idea.

Oh no, is that a slippery slope I see just ahead of me?


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Ha Ha.. my wife jokes the machine spends more time in bits on the dining room table than it does making coffees.

Regarding flushing I'm doing pretty similar to yourself, I flush until it stops spluttering and hissing and then continue to flush a steady stream for a count of 5 seconds. I'd guess this probably gives me about 6-7oz of water in the cup. My understanding is that once the hissing and spluttering stops the brew head is down to just below boiling point and that every 1 second of flush after that will reduce the temperature by approx. 1 degree. This is just something I read and I've not actually done any test to prove or disprove this. The other thing the article said was that you should endeavour to pull the shot immediately after flushing before the temperature starts to rise again (I think I recall them saying something like within 15 seconds).

Regarding a view panel, the issue would be that the tank its self isn't see through (or at least min isn't) and I don't fancy trying to drill and cut that s/s casing, its pretty thick and tough stuff! I'm pretty confident that I could get a small tube supply from the fridge freezer water supply and feed it in underneath and through the hole underneath the Tea to supply water to the tank. I have an old washing machine in the garage so I may move this job up my list and experiment


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

I hadn't heard about continuing the flush for another 5 seconds (drops 1 degree per second) but suspect that's about my delay before stopping the flush.

Talking of wife input, mine said the other day when insultating the machine and using the Aeropress that she thought she preferred the Columbian El Meridiano Rioblanco decaff from the Aeropress. Sacre beaujolais!


----------



## soundklinik (May 31, 2013)

marcuswar said:


> Thanks for the kind words Rod, and thank you for getting us our own thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think soon we will be three

I am getting a second hand TEA...in a week or so...

How do you guys like the machine? Anything I should check (in particular) before buying? I am going to pick up the machine,.

The seller is a trusted person, (on a french coffee forum), he replaced the pressure valve with better quality one that goes to 1.2 bar only.

Have you thought about PIDing the machine? New ones from Isomac are PID now.... http://www.isomac.it/model.asp?id=31

cheers


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Hi Soundklinik,

Congratulations on the impending Isomac TEA arrival, what are you upgrading from ?

I think the machine is excellent value if you get one at the right price. At the end of the day its an E61 HX machine so performs pretty much like any other, its just not quite as pretty (although beauty as always is in the eye of the beholder). The machine is built like a tank with think stainless steel throughout. It certainly looks very impressive, if a little utilitarian, in a domestic kitchen environment and certainly makes guest think you know what your doing









With its relatively small boiler (1.2L) its steaming abilities are probably adequate rather than impressive, but I've never had any issues with making my morning flat whites yet. I have my pressure set to click off around 1.2 bar (although its over shoots to 1.4 and above) for what I find is the best combination of steam power (higher setting) and flush time (lower setting). If you don't use steam, you can set it down to around 0.7 and still get all the shot temperatures you want with a lot less flush.

Do you know if its a TEA 1 or TEA2 (or possibly 3, which I believe is the American version of a 2). The TEA 1 (like mine) doesn't have any air vents in the sides of the case, whereas the later models do. I think the later models may have a slightly larger boiler (1.4L) which may help with the steam pressure. They also had the boiler mounted securely which should only be an issue if your transporting the machine around.

As to the new PID models I suspect this is more marketing driven than performance driven. I don't really see much benefit in PID'ing an HX machine (as opposed to a dual boiler) as the PID is only controlling the steam boiler temperature rather than the brew water. I seem to also remember reading something that a PSTAT will respond quicker to the drop in pressure as steam is drawn off than the PID would as its watching the temperature.

Interestingly named location your living in


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

soundklinik said:


> I think soon we will be three
> 
> I am getting a second hand TEA...in a week or so...
> 
> ...


Hi soundklinik

Congratulations on your choice. With the pstat replaced and adjusted so the upper value is 1.2 bar (my lower level is just over 1.0 bar) it sounds like you are there. A look inside will reveal quite a lot but evidence of dried water from previous leaks may not be a problem. Look for kinked tubing, which can easily be sorted out. The pressure release is on top of the boiler (surrounded by an open black bastic casing), you might need to ease this with sideways pressure from a screwdriver if the valve sticks and the machine hisses and steam builds up inside.

If the machine has been used in a hard water area, it might be worth a descale. I use Citric Acid which I bought in a large tub from Bella Barista. There's lots of places to describe the process and how much to use, which isn't much at all. Giving the machine a good clean and backflushing with Cafiza or Pulo completes the job (you'll need a blind filter for this if you didn't know already).

As I understand it a PID wouldn't use all it's capabilities in an HX machine so we've recently done a group order for a digital thermometer and adaptor which are fitted to the front of the group head where there's a hexagonal plug. Please see http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?17839-Monitoring-brew-temperature-on-an-E61-group-head for more details.

Wish you joy of your new purchase when you get it and look forward to hearing how you get on with it.


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

Hi soundklinik

Just to let you know I've responded too but since there's a link to our E61 temperature thread it won't be shown until a moderator has approved the link.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Its annoying isn't it Ron... it only seems to "moderate" them when you use links that post back to this forum, you'd think external links would be the ones you'd be more worried about!


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

marcuswar said:


> Its annoying isn't it Ron... it only seems to "moderate" them when you use links that post back to this forum, you'd think external links would be the ones you'd be more worried about!


I think you are right Marcus. Somewhere in the back of my mind I recollect it's something to do with the original chatroom software and I'm not sure whether licensees can alter it or indeed whether this chatroom software was purchased or custom designed for CFUK.


----------



## soundklinik (May 31, 2013)

Hi Centaursailing and Marcuswar,

and thanks for kind words...I am upgrading from Silvia because my wife "hates" the machine, not really, just it's too fenicky...

It must be the version TEA 2, it has vents on the side...I am quite excited, they are quite beautiful machines...420euros is not that bad...and the guy is a "geek" just like most of us, he upgraded to Unic something @ 5000 euros and has an impressive amount of other machines, all "class"...and I believe takes good care...

One thing about the settings on the tank, I never steam, espressos only, can I lower the pressure down to 0.8, to have temp at group same as the tank? Or do you always have to flush?

Centaursailing, are you a sailor? I just returned from a delivery Guadeloupe-France Med. a three month trip...Endurance 35 ferrocement sailboat..

Guys have a nice evening, cheers


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

soundklinik said:


> It must be the version TEA 2, it has vents on the side...I am quite excited, they are quite beautiful machines...420euros is not that bad...and the guy is a "geek" just like most of us, he upgraded to Unic something @ 5000 euros and has an impressive amount of other machines, all "class"...and I believe takes good care...
> 
> One thing about the settings on the tank, I never steam, espressos only, can I lower the pressure down to 0.8, to have temp at group same as the tank? Or do you always have to flush?


£420 euro (approx. £330) sounds like an excellent price to me. I managed to get mine for £275 (the guy wanted £300) but its a version 1 and had a sticky vacuum valve when I bought it ( a good descale sorted that)

You can certainly reduce the pressure of the PSTAT down to 0.8 if you want but its not making the temp at the group the same as the tank. The tank is simply a plastic tub holding water, its not heated in any way, When a shot is pulled the pump pulls water from the tank and forces it through a tube that passes through the steam boiler to flash heat it. The amount of heat transferred to the water passing through the HX is dependant on the temperature in the steam boiler and the amount of time the water remains in the tube.

Here is a link that explains how a HX machine works; http://www.frcndigital.com/coffee/hx.html

I'm not sure you will be able to lower the pressure enough to prevent any flushing but still maintain the temperature of the water going through the HX for the shot. To be honest a lot of people seem to over fixate on the necessity to flush a HX machine, its not really the big an issue. It only adds about 10 seconds to the ritual of making a coffee and I use the flush to warm the cup anyway.


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

soundklinik said:


> Centaursailing, are you a sailor? I just returned from a delivery Guadeloupe-France Med. a three month trip...Endurance 35 ferrocement sailboat..


Hi soundklinik

Yes I am/ a sailor, almost the ancient mariner in fact because I've decided to retire 30 June next and close my RYA distance learning navigation school. Now my Ocean Cruising is on much more comfortable vessels, i.e. Cruise Liners!


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

centaursailing said:


> Hi soundklinik
> 
> Just to let you know I've responded too but since there's a link to our E61 temperature thread it won't be shown until a moderator has approved the link.


Bumping this to request a moderator to look at my post and check the link, which is simply to one of the Isomac threads, and thereby allow the post to appear. Thanks.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Rod, when this has happened to me in the past I've sent a pm to Glenn


----------



## soundklinik (May 31, 2013)

marcuswar said:


> £420 euro (approx. £330) sounds like an excellent price to me. I managed to get mine for £275 (the guy wanted £300) but its a version 1 and had a sticky vacuum valve when I bought it ( a good descale sorted that)
> 
> *You can certainly reduce the pressure of the PSTAT down to 0.8 if you want but its not making the temp at the group the same as the tank. The tank is simply a plastic tub holding water, its not heated in any way*, When a shot is pulled the pump pulls water from the tank and forces it through a tube that passes through the steam boiler to flash heat it. The amount of heat transferred to the water passing through the HX is dependant on the temperature in the steam boiler and the amount of time the water remains in the tube.
> 
> ...


Hi Marcus, I didn't mean the "tank" or reservoir, where you pour the water, I meant the *boiler, *in my limited knowledge of HX machines, I noticed that most people flush before pulling shots, because the HX is hot, around 125C for steam. Is there a way to reduce the steam temp?

I never steam, I pull only espressos.

That is why I was wondering if reducing pressure can lower temperature, between the boiler and HX and equalize it between the group head and HX?

Does it make sense?

cheers

PS, my location reflects the french mentality to "curb your dog" attitude. I can't stand constantly looking where I step...There is simply dog shit everywhere and do you think they care? LOL


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

I'm no expert in the exact thermal dynamics of how a HX works but logic would seem to indicate that you will always need to have the boiler higher than the required brew temperature because the water in the HX pipe needs to flash heated as it's only in contact with the HX for such a relatively short time (as its pumped through). I think you will always need to have some flush but reducing the Pstat setting would mean the flush required would be smaller, although recovery time (between shots) would be longer.

I think in an ideal world if you only make espressos then maybe a single PID controlled boiler machine would be a better machine for you









Re dogs in France. We recently spent a week in outskirts of Paris (chateau de vincennes) and I have to say that I was amazed at how many people keep dogs over there. I tend to think of it as more a British thing (keeping dogs as pets) but I saw more people walking their dogs over there than I see over here! I also have to say I saw plenty of people picking up their dogs poop and putting in the dog poop bins dotted around.


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

marcuswar said:


> Rod, when this has happened to me in the past I've sent a pm to Glenn


Thanks Marcus, I've asked Glenn as you suggested.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

centaursailing said:


> Thanks Marcus, I've asked Glenn as you suggested.


It doesn't need Glenn to fix, any mod can do it. I just do a normal post that says 'post in moderation' and someone normally picks it up


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Yes I know any mod can do it but in my experience they rarely if ever seem to get moderated if the op doesn't prod someone to do it. Not a critisem just an observation.

Seems a bit daft that the posts even go into moderation anyway. Surely links to internal pages isn't a typical spammer tactic !


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

If one one of my posts goes to moderation I must post 'POST IN MODERATION' straight after. Send to work alright


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Well I suppose that'll be one way to increase my post count









Thanks Jeebsy


----------



## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Moderated post now approved. vBulletin are unsure why the posts are going into moderation.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

marcuswar said:


> Yes I know any mod can do it but in my experience they rarely if ever seem to get moderated if the op doesn't prod someone to do it. Not a critisem just an observation.
> 
> Seems a bit daft that the posts even go into moderation anyway. Surely links to internal pages isn't a typical spammer tactic !


When posts go into moderation I personally don't get a notification or an email lie I do with reported posts or messages .

If someone pms me and I'm about il release it .

If not i might not see it . That simple

Otherwise it's just a case of me stumbling across a post that's gone in mod.

So pm me and I will release it when I'm next free ( I am occasionally otherwise occupied with non forum things


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks Boots, as I said it was just an observation rather then any critisem so I hope I didn't cause any offence, I'm just extremely grateful for all the time you moderators give to making this forum run smoothly.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

marcuswar said:


> Thanks Boots, as I said it was just an observation rather then any critisem so I hope I didn't cause any offence, I'm just extremely grateful for all the time you moderators give to making this forum run smoothly.


No offence taken Marcus Honestly

Just explaining why stuff gets missed

I'll check with Glenn to see if I have my stuff set up and I should be getting notifications or not

Otherwise like I say pm me


----------



## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

Glenn said:


> Moderated post now approved. vBulletin are unsure why the posts are going into moderation.


Thanks Glenn, the post is now showing.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks Boots. Seems strange that no message is sent.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

marcuswar said:


> Thanks Boots. Seems strange that no message is sent.


I had a fiddle through the setting last night , couldn't see how or where I'd change this .

I'll ask Glenn as I'm probably got something set up wrong some where


----------



## soundklinik (May 31, 2013)

Following your examples in boiler insulation....I was ready and willing, got great insulation material 6mm thick, ties, xtra hose etc, took the machine apart, had a look and chickened out...There are so many pipes and fittings to go around, under, over, that I thought I will wait...LOL

Did you have to uninstall a lot of stuff? It all seems so cramped, I'm afraid I will do more damage than good...

I guess I need a good reason to do it.;-)


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Chicken !







It looks far more complicated than it actually is... honest.

There is no need to uninstall anything to insulate the boiler. Just feed, push, pull the material underneath and around the front of the boiler. If you make a paper template first you can temporarily stick this to the material to use as a "draw wire".


----------



## soundklinik (May 31, 2013)

> It looks far more complicated than it actually is... honest.


I know,







I will do it, and fix the leak...and descale...


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Take a deep breath and just go for it. Like I said you aren't actually removing anything , except the OPV tubing, so its nothing complicated.


----------



## soundklinik (May 31, 2013)

marcuswar said:


> Take a deep breath and just go for it. Like I said you aren't actually removing anything , except the OPV tubing, so its nothing complicated.


So I did and it went OK, except I had to do it in 2 halves, it was easier that way...

You're right about the machine being more quiet now...

I lowered the pressure valve to 9 bars...actually the manometer shows just under 9 bars...That's acceptable, isn't it?

It was hovering around 10bars before...


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Congratulations, see I told you it was easy. These things always look more daunting than they actually are. Did you use cable ties to secure the sponge ?

I think the sponge must act as a sound absorbing material stopping the sound rebounding around the internals of the machine, a bit like an empty room sounding more echo-y than compared to when its fully furnished.

Regarding the pressure, the convention seems to be that it should be set 1bar higher (i.e. 10bar) when measured with portafilter mounted pressure gauge. This is because its measuring static pressure and when a coffee puck is used it will be lower as some pressure will be lost through the puck bringing down to the 9bar recommended. I'm not sure if this same theory applies to an inline pressure gauge that is measuring pressure while there is coffee in the portafilter. Mine shows 10bar when pulling a shot through coffee so I would have thought assuming its accurate it should be set lower like you did. Having said that the bottom line is, can you taste it in the cup and does it taste better ?


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Out of interest did you have any trouble adjusting your OPV ? I've tried a couple of times and failed.. its stuck solid. I keep meaning to buy a set of waterpump pliers to see if they would get a better grip (I've been just using normal pliers previously). Another option would be to replace the OPV with a better quality one like this http://www.chriscoffee.com/Expansion-Valve-for-Andreja-Isomac-p/ev321.htm. The problem is finding a UK supplier of said valve


----------



## soundklinik (May 31, 2013)

Hi Marcus,

didn't have much trouble unscrewing the valve, I pulled off the plastic tube gripped it firmly with pliers and voila, turned it counter clockwise about a quarter turn.

I used cable ties and aluminium sticky tape to seal it and hold it together. (I will post some photos)

I think you can just firmly grip it with pliers and turn. It is a small "screw" or threaded part that should move relatively easy...(I was a bit worried too that it won't be easy reading the forum)

Regarding the taste after the ~9bar adjustment, it seems to taste the same or better, definitively not worse, but I might slightly tighten it to maybe 9.5 bars but I will wait and see...

That new OPV looks great, sad that the shipping is so expensive from US...

Anyway, thanks for your encouragement

cheers, Karel


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

When I had my Tea apart (again) recently I noticed that the nylon ribbon I'd used to hold the sponge wrapped around the boiler had snapped so its really now just held in place by the pipes and wires and the "memory" effect of having been previously wrapped around it. I think I need to find those long cable ties and roll of aluminium tape I know I have somewhere


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Join several short cable tie's together.?


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Still have to find the short cables ties though







Point is I *KNOW* I bought some very long ones a few months ago but I'm damned if I can find them now I need them.


----------



## soundklinik (May 31, 2013)

So I finally took the plunge and insulated the tank and descaled...(much more complicated then Silvia)

Machine runs quieter. Cups seem to be less hot.

The photos are not that good, sorry, I insulated with high quality pipe insulator that is a bit too fragile, it tears easily, but there is nothing that aluminium sticky tape can't hold together...

Another thing I did is to glue bits of computer insulating material made by Askasa with one side sticky, other foam 3mm thick. Stops rattling of things...

And I re-routed the exhaust tube from expansion valve. It seemed to be kinked with too short piece of tubing...

Cheers


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks for the piccies soundklinik. looks like you've done a more complete job than me, insulating both ends of the boiler, I left the lefthand end uncovered as it was more complicated to get access to.

When you say "... cups seem less hot", I assume you mean cups on the top of the machine i.e. on the cup warmer.

Where did you stick the Asaka dampening material? I have heard of people using it on the back of the front panel to stop it asking as a sounding board.

Re the descaling of the boiler, did you use the rocking the machine N,W,E and South technique or the "overfill" technique ( by removing the connection from the boiler fill guage). I'm not sure I'd describe it as much more complicated than the Silvia (or in my case the Gaggia) its just two different descales, one for the (steam) boiler and one for the HX.

I have to say the inside of your Tea looks much neater than mine. Mine seems to be a tangled mess of wires everywhere compared to yours. Mine a version 1 and yours looks like version 2 given the vents in the side and the pressurestat mounted on the top (mine is on the side of the boiler rather than T'ing off the anti vacuum valve). You also seem to have a much longer pipe on your pressure manometer, I can barely manage to get 2 coils in mine!


----------



## soundklinik (May 31, 2013)

Hi Marcus,

the insulating material I used is like wet suit material and it tears easy. But the aluminium tape, which is really sticky keeps it all together.









I cut and joined smaller pieces together and sealed them together...

The Askasa material is a bit everywhere, in small quantities, wherever 2 metals touch, most are 6mm wide and few centimeters long, just enough to make a barrier/gasket so things don't rattle...

The descaling method I used is the "tilt" method, because I was not sure that pulling on the sensor that slides in/out I won't make it leak....(not that I wanted to pull it out..."it moves")

I tilted it about 45 degrees (to left) and the pump kicked on...How about you? did you disconnect the sensor? Next time I will do a better job...

The descale complication that I was talking about was more "mental" because it dawned on me that the steam boiler has to be emptied 90% with the hot water/steam spouts, NOT (only) the HX group...The HX is done in 2-3 flushes...(I thought it goes out through the HX...duh)...dual boiler actually...

Yes, I see there are some small differences in these two models...They try to improve as they go on?

But on the downside, my e61 group overhaul didn't go as anticipated...sob,sob,sniff (see my thread in how to's)


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

I disconnected the sensor and over filled the boiler. I did also rock it from side to side as a "belt & braces" approach.

The probe shouldn't move or slide in and out, mine certainly doesn't! Its just an electrical spade terminal that needs pulling off to cause the boiler to overfill.


----------



## soundklinik (May 31, 2013)

marcuswar said:


> I disconnected the sensor and over filled the boiler. I did also rock it from side to side as a "belt & braces" approach. The probe shouldn't move or slide in and out, mine certainly doesn't! Its just an electrical spade terminal that needs pulling off to cause the boiler to overfill.


My sensor moves in/out, so does the one on video of the guy showing it...around 1':50" and he pushes it back in...kind of made me wonder if it's worth it...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuODdWm7oJQ


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Mmm.. I've never noticed my probe move when I pull the spade connector off, I'd always assumed it was fixed to the actual bolt.

Instead of removing the connector what you can do is cut the wire and fit a 3 way switch inline. This way you can have it switched to normal, grounded (for no fill when descaling the HX) and ungrounded (for continuous fill when descaling the boiler).


----------



## Davcotts (Jun 4, 2016)

Having used it in the past, i thought automotive exhaust heat wrap would me most suitable for this type of boiler. I'm thinking of insulating my Fracino cherub and thought that this 2" wide bandage would be the best material to use wrapping around the boiler to avoid pipes and fittings.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

When I insulated my boiler I did contemplate using the exhaust bandage to wrap around the internal pipework as the silicone foam was a bit too thick but in the end I couldn't be bothered.


----------

