# Apollo manual hand grinder?



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Hi everyone,

I am after a manual coffee grinder because I've sold my Lido(was happy with its performance) and while reading a lots of topics came across the Apollo one.

Does anyone have experience with it, the other model considered is Kinu M47. I am ok with the weight of 1kg for the grinders







but they should be portable as well.

Best regards,

V


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Not come across these, what's the price ? What was the reason behind selling the LIDO ?

The Kinu is significantly more in price compared to say a LIDO , I think @Stanic has had some experience with the Kinu range.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

I've got a tabletop model - the Kinu M68, but if you're looking for travel grinder, there is a new model, the M47 traveller, which has positive comments over at the home barista forum

The madebyknock grinders are also pretty good


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

I like trying and experimenting with the new things and a friend wanted my Lido so I ended up grinderless(manual).

If Kinu I would go for m47 classic.


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## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

There are lots of people on the La Pavoni facebook group with these (as they are made by a member and approved by La Pavoni to be branded with La Pavoni etc). The wide consensus is that it's the best handheld manual grinder around. The few people on the group who have had both the Apollo and the M47 ended up selling the M47 as the Apollo was nearly identical but just better in lots of small ways, like discussed in the above video.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

I doubt people are selling Kinus for the Chinese knockoff.

And I doubt the tawianese maker will offer the same level of support kinu offers for their products, in part because sending a product to Taiwan versus Romania is quite a different adventure for the European buyer.

I've read someone's comment that there's burr rub outside of the zero position. That's not quite up to kinu standards.


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## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

dev said:


> I doubt people are selling Kinus for the Chinese knockoff.
> 
> And I doubt the tawianese maker will offer the same level of support kinu offers for their products, in part because sending a product to Taiwan versus Romania is quite a different adventure for the European buyer.
> 
> I've read someone's comment that there's burr rub outside of the zero position. That's not quite up to kinu standards.


Haha you can doubt it all you like, but it is very much happening - you can go buy the M47 off the people selling it! Arthur at BPlus makes some very nice gear, even if his company is obviously not nearly as proven as Kinu.

Agreed on support. I've seen one person complaining of an issue with their Apollo and Arthur seemingly dealth with it, but in the end yes it's much easier to deal with sending within the EU than outside. Further, the Apollo doesn't include taxes and duties, which can be quite high.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting he go out and buy the Apollo - personally I'd be unsure of which I'd get if I sold my Lido E - just that others with experience of both speak more highly about the experience of using the Apollo than that of the M47, and that they would keep the Apollo rather than the Kinu.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

What level of support from Kinu? Never replied on emails!


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

That's partisanship because of Arthur's connection with Pavoni. There's nothing in his grinder that would sway a person to sell his Kinu. Especially true for Europeans.

TBH I'd rather buy something like a Comandate with red Clix because I know the grinder's been through some iterations, like the Kinu, and enough people have tested the product.

Endorsement from a handful of people who know the maker is actually more dubious than anything else.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

L&R said:


> What level of support from Kinu? Never replied on emails!


Their factory has burnt down. Things are slower these days but will pick up soon.

https://www.kinugrinders.com/index.php?page=m_home_page.public.news&Id_News=39


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

I know that I emailed with questions several times now and a month ago.

And yes Kunu is produced in Romania.


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## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

dev said:


> That's partisanship because of Arthur's connection with Pavoni. There's nothing in his grinder that would sway a person to sell his Kinu. Especially true for Europeans.
> 
> TBH I'd rather buy something like a Comandate with red Clix because I know the grinder's been through some iterations, like the Kinu, and enough people have tested the product.
> 
> Endorsement from a handful of people who know the maker is actually more dubious than anything else.


Have you seen the video review in the OP? Or another written review online comparing the two; clearly there are things that would sway people to sell their Kinu. Indeed these were Europeans. This is another case of you acting like you know everything about everything, and I guess it's likely that you don't have any experience of either grinder - certainly not of both. I don't either, in this case, but at least I'm stating that I'm just passing on others' opinions, not pretending to know all the differences myself when I don't have a clue.

The people don't "know" the maker, only about 3 people on the group have had any communication with him outside of ordering the grinder off him, or commenting on the photo of his morning coffee.

Again, Kinu is more proven, obviously, but I never said anything against that.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

You are right, I have almost 2 years of using a Kinu but I know nothing.

Have you actually read the topics about kinu on home-barista or kafe-netz?

It's nice that you are convinced the Apollo is better just because 2 people on the internet say it is. It's also cute that no one talks about alignment and just take for granted burrs rubbing when they aren't locked.

https://www.home-barista.com/grinders/bplus-apollo-grinder-initial-observations-t56895.html


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## Graham J (Jul 27, 2018)

I've a Kinu M68, bought off their website last August. It's beautifully built and very repeatable, tiny grind adjustments are effective in small changes in the shot length and B.R. After a month of ownership I noticed the internal drive shaft had moved a touch in its driveplate. Not a serious problem but it did cause the zero point to move.

When I emailed Kinu to ask about this, Christian at Kinu offered to have the grinder back and renew the shaft assembly. They sent a DPD collection next day and duly replaced and updated my Grinder with a small design change, which hadn't been released at that point. I received my Grinder back after about 10 days and it has been faultless since.

I'm personally very happy with their service and support. The factory in Rumania is based around rifle producing machinery and is being currently upgraded with their insurance money, following a partial fire at Christmas. As another engineer will know, the line boring and surface grinding machines used for military rifle production are very suitable for their grinder designs.


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## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

dev said:


> You are right, I have almost 2 years of using a Kinu but I know nothing.
> 
> Have you actually read the topics about kinu on home-barista or kafe-netz?
> 
> ...


You still know nothing about the Apollo. I never said the Apollo was better, i said that it's stupid to say there's no reason to prefer the Apollo when there are clear reasons that you don't even need to feel yourself to see merit in. You're so certain that something you've never tried doesn't compare.

You often don't realise this in arguments on here I am realising, it's not you make one claim and someone else makes opposing claim, it's you make unfounded claim whilst the other person says it's not necessarily that simple.

Also, people experience burr rub on Kinus, too. And what do Kinu say? "That's normal"


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Coffee/comments/7apeop

But keep deluding yourself based on your very limited experience (talking about quality control by comparing your one perfectly working grinder to 1 comment online about another) into thinking you've got it all under wraps.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

If you had the curiosity of reading some actual topics about kinu you'd know there were iterations that had burrs touching at the zero position.

In the meantime, keep telling yourself 2 folks on the internet, more or less honest, know what they're talking about.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

The Apollo will cost around £15 less than the Kinu once you've factored in VAT, customs tax and shipping. Kinu offer a five year guarantee which is pretty good. The grind cup has gone through a few iterations - first batch was 'O' ring fit later changed to four rare earth magnets. Latest versions have eleven rare earth magnets. Member of the forum had problems with his four magnet cup - Kinu sent him the new version as a replacement.

The Kinu is made from stainless steel - the Apollo is aluminium - nothing intrinsically wrong with that but, for the money, I'd want stainless steel. Kinu has greater capacity over the Apollo - 30-35grms to 25grms - not a problem for espresso but could be annoying for pour over when brewing 500grms.

Doesn't look like the latest versions of the Kinu are shipped with the aluminium rod used to drift out the bottom bolt. Perhaps Kinu feel this is unnecessary. The Apollo has a retainer plate held in place by two micro Philips screws. Whilst this seems a more user friendly way of securing the bottom burr, I would have concerns about the possibility damaging the screw head or or the thread in main body.

In the end, its horses for courses - both are similar spec and cost pretty much the same.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Any other premium manual grinders that can travel if necessary to consider?


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

Helor 101 is considered up there, especially since it comes with 2 sets of burrs. But it's got the same Apollo construction, steel burrs in an aluminum housing, and durability can be questionable over time.

If you're considering this as you main grinder I'd go for the Kinu since they are built to last.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Kinu is built like a tank - oozes durability. Downside - weighs over a kilo. On the bright side, you could always use it as a door stopper when not in use.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

1 kilo is perfect for me







I like heavy coffee related items.


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