# used SJ first clean and mods



## mike00 (Sep 23, 2014)

I've received an ebay special and it was filthy and stinky from a lot of cafe use, but I'm sure it's rock solid. It came with a second set of shiny new burrs. They feel sharper to my fingers but I'm not sure if the old burrs are still ok. Perhaps I should take them to my friendly coffee shop owner for his opinion.

So I've removed the old burrs and given everything a thorough brushing and vacuum. Left the burr carrier in place as I understand cleaning under that is unnecessary and could be troublesome if I lever it off and damage it.

The automatic doser is a feature that is obviously not suited to home use, but I was going to find a routine to deal with the flappy flappy thing.

However the whole doser assembly was really filthy and looked annoying so I've removed it. Other people have shown simple instructions for fixing the wiring for the micro switches so I've done it and feel happier 

Need to fashion a metal front cover but an ice cream lid will do for now, and could serve as a template. Covers are sold in the states but I couldn't see anything local. I've seen the metal funnel shute mod and will look at getting that done too.

Thanks for listening

Mike


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Put the new burrs in there will last you its lifetime more than likely.

Plenty of mods to make the Doser useable for home use so don't despair.

Loads of Sj users on here to get advise from


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

mike00 said:


> Covers are sold in the states but I couldn't see anything local.


LFS sell them but you need to set up an account and there's minimum delivery etc.

Charlie has an account and is doing a group buy thing, if he reappears soon you could speak to him nicely


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## mike00 (Sep 23, 2014)

Thanks guys. It does make sense to use the new burrs now. I didn't think about the easy life they will have in my kitchen.

Not sure who LFS are. My google skills are failing me today.

Thanks for pointing me towards Charlie. Is he not around much?

Here's my kitchen playground after an afternoon of hard work and fun..


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Mike, if your grinder was as "stinky and dirty" as you say I would seriously consider making the effort to remove the lower burr carrier and give it all a thorough clean.

See the "gungy grinder thread" That was mine with only a fraction of the coffee that yours has ground and I doubt it has ever been cleaned underneath the carrier.









Once done you can forget it for a considerable time AND YOUR COFFEE WILL TASTE BETTER:good:


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

It is not a particularly easy job to remove the lower carrier. Most easily accessible methods are advised against.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I used the long screw method but that's now frowned upon


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> I used the long screw method but that's now frowned upon


It's a better idea compared to trying to lever it out with a screw driver. But, the long screw method can damage the bottom plate of the but chamber and still can push the lower carrier up unevenly, leading it to cause a wobble.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

You can easily protect the bottom of the chamber by using some thin sheet metal pushed under where the bolts are going. If you go with a partial turn on each bolt, you will remove the carrier without putting excess force on the shaft / bearings. The issue here is as usual the human element, most DIYers get impatient and do a few turns at a time (still I'm not convinced that causes shaft / bearing damage).

Regards,

T.


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

I don't think the issue is with it damaging the shaft / bearing, rather that the burr carrier itself being "bent"


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

How exactly would that happen? the burr carrier normally pops off at some point and you're not applying shock force (like a whack with a hammer), simply consistently applying more force to get it off.

T.


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

but if the force you applying is even slightly uneven and the carrier is made from a relatively soft material like aluminium then it's not inconceivable that it would deformed slightly. The amount of distortion wouldn't need to be much when we are talking tolerances in the order of less than 1/1000 inch


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Material flexes as long as it's not too thin, we are talking rather complicated shapes here which are pretty thick so I can't really see stuff bending permanently unless loads of force is applied. Plus I haven't seen burr carriers made from ali.

T.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

dsc said:


> How exactly would that happen? the burr carrier normally pops off at some point and you're not applying shock force (like a whack with a hammer), simply consistently applying more force to get it off.
> 
> T.


As Marcus said it more the Burr carrier that can get bent, especially if it's aluminium like the Mazzer carriers are. Doesn't take a lot to damage aluminium.

They're not cheap to replace either retail for about £45. Luckily I managed to pick one up thanks to someone with a wholesale account which worked out to be approx £28.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

dsc said:


> Material flexes as long as it's not too thin, we are talking rather complicated shapes here which are pretty thick so I can't really see stuff bending permanently unless loads of force is applied. Plus I haven't seen burr carriers made from ali.
> 
> T.


Mazzer lower burr carriers are made out of aluminium (unfortunately).

See below thread

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15895


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Heck mine was brass I think on the Major. Still I think the burr carriers can be taken off using the long bolt method safely. The other thing is how do people see this wobble and whether it's true or just an optical illusion (easy to make a mistake with things rotating).

T.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

dsc said:


> The other thing is how do people see this wobble and whether it's true or just an optical illusion (easy to make a mistake with things rotating).
> 
> T.


For mine it wasn't done visually, it was a piece of kit that El Carajilo had (for checking the trueness of brakes) but works on any spinning disc, accurate to 1000th of an inch from memory. You set it on a level, then spin the burr or disk and it picks up any wobble.

Have not heard of Mazzer brass burr carriers but they sound far more sensible than aluminium ones.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

It was an older Mazzer though (not the super old one, the mid range one, before they upgraded the chassis to the latest model).

As for the wobble all you need is a DTI to clock the surface of the burr carrier.

T.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

What's a DTI?


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Dial Test Indicator:

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy46/1275miniman/HAGGIS%20THE%20MINI/001-54.jpg

Used like above with the end of the dial / plunger touching the surface of the burr carrier you can see what the wobble is like.

T.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

That's the device I was on about in reply to you question about how do people visually see the wobble. Glad I know what it's called now


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## mike00 (Sep 23, 2014)

dsc said:


> You can easily protect the bottom of the chamber by using some thin sheet metal pushed under where the bolts are going. If you go with a partial turn on each bolt, you will remove the carrier without putting excess force on the shaft / bearings. The issue here is as usual the human element, most DIYers get impatient and do a few turns at a time (still I'm not convinced that causes shaft / bearing damage).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


So gently with the long bolt method is the way to go. Your suggestion for protecting the bottom of the chamber sounds spot on. Will report back tomorrow evening if I can find some long bolts


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

mike00 said:


> So gently with the long bolt method is the way to go. Your suggestion for protecting the bottom of the chamber sounds spot on. Will report back tomorrow evening if I can find some long bolts


On the RR55 the bolts that hold the adjustment collar in place are the same size and pitch (but longer) so can be used... not that I'm suggesting that this is the way to go. What worked for me was a quick 15-20 second blast of hot air from a hot air gun (the type used for paint stripping). The aluminium carrier heats up and expands slightly making it come off easy as pie.


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> That's the device I was on about in reply to you question about how do people visually see the wobble. Glad I know what it's called now


Yes that's the sort of device I used as well. A second hand Dial Gauge bought off eBay for £8. Measures deflections down to 1/1000th of an inch.

I have a picture of it somewhere....


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)




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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

mike00 said:


> So gently with the long bolt method is the way to go. Your suggestion for protecting the bottom of the chamber sounds spot on. Will report back tomorrow evening if I can find some long bolts


Just out of interest, is your lower carrier aluminium or brass? Mine is a 2004 one and came with the aluminium one.

The other way to gauge if there's a wobble on it is to listen when the burrs chirp when touching. If it sounds like it's catching then not as the burrs are turning then this would indicate a bit of a wobble. You can do this by spinning the burrs manually (with it unplugged). A DTI would confirm how much out it is.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

A basic /simple way to check for run out is to remove adjustment collar and THOROUGHLY CLEAN the burrs and chamber. Re assemble and wind down until collar until burrs touch firmly, then gradually back off until you can just rotate the burrs. If you have a smooth touching sound through 360 degrees NO PROBLEM. If you have a touch and miss sound as you rotate something is not running true. This done unplugged of course.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

dsc said:


> How exactly would that happen? the burr carrier normally pops off at some point and you're not applying shock force (like a whack with a hammer), simply consistently applying more force to get it off.
> 
> T.


They do not pop off, they are an interference fit on a straight shaft and need to be drawn up and off parallel to the shaft.

They are aluminium, they are thin, they are soft. (see grungy grinder pic).

Trying to lever off is not sensible / practical as the clearance between the underside of the carrier is about a millimetre off the base of the grinder which means you are levering right on the edge of the thin aluminium carrier and yes the do deform and do not spring back.

Cleaning underneath the carrier is not a frequently required procedure but if you are going to do it don't create more problems by levering it off.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

I dont want to confuse people or cause problems, so heres a few quick notes from me, feel free to disagree:

- the Mazzer Major I used had a tappered shaft and a fitting brass carrier which did pop off of enough force was applied

- why rely on sound for wobble \ runout when you can simply put a DTI on the shaft \ burr carrier \ burr itself and have a pretty precise reading?

- whatever you do do not lever off the carrier from the side, that will most likely damage something

- you could try a bearing puller, assuming you can fit the arms in between the carrier and burr chamber wall

T.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

dsc said:


> I dont want to confuse people or cause problems, so heres a few quick notes from me, feel free to disagree:
> 
> - the Mazzer Major I used had a tappered shaft and a fitting brass carrier which did pop off of enough force was applied
> 
> ...


DSC I try to give people information to help with their coffee interest and maintenance. The 3 recent Mazzers I have worked on all have aluminium burr carriers on parallel shafts, two of them deformed by previously being levered off.

With reference to the DTI gauge you and I have access to these but most people do not, hence my suggestion to wind down and listen for even touching OR touch and miss

Reference the removal there is a photo on the forum showing a simple home made puller using a 3" square piece of steel with a centre bolt and three long pins/bolts to screw into the burr retaining screw holes (cannot remember the link).

I was not trying to belittle or otherwise offend.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

No offence taken mate I just wanted to make clear where I'm coming from and what my thoughts are to clear any confusion coming from the original conversation somewhere above. A home made puller would be my ideal choice

Cheers,

T.


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## mike00 (Sep 23, 2014)

After finding the correct long screw bolts and then pondering the damage potential I thought it would be best make a puller. I was impatient and wondered if the centre bolt would be tough to undo, so gave it a nudge and was able to lift the aluminium lower burr carrier out very easily with my fingers!

First picture here shows a gentle way to stop the carrier moving when the spanner is turned. A firmly held screwdriver will sit in a spring recess and allow the bolt to be turned anti clockwise. The spanner actually seated better than this (shown here precariously resting while my other hand took the picture) but a 1/2" socket would be safest.









Not that much crud underneath? No damage. Quite stinky and stale though, so glad to be able to brush it out and wash the carrier.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Glad you bit the bullet and took it off:good:


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Glad it all worked out for you Mike00. Strange how some carriers seem to stick more than others.

On my RR55 there are no spring recesses so my preferred method (similar to yours) is to use a *wooden *chopstick placed into the coffee chute exit so that the burr carrier sweeper jams against it. I'd recommend always using something wooden or plastic (not metal) as otherwise you may cause damage to the sweepers when applying torque to the nut.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Nice one, glad you got it off without any bother. Looks in good nick too. Keep us posted on how you get on with it. Hope the re-assembly goes as smoothly


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## mike00 (Sep 23, 2014)

Thanks well wishers 

I spent some time trying to centre both burrs perfectly, but its almost impossible. Wound them close together until they intermittently chirped slightly, which sounded slightly off. I read somewhere about alignment being important but it's probably not a big deal and I'm happy to leave it as is.

So I've wasted some nice has beans trying to dial it in with a Gaggia Classic and realise that I need to source a good standard medium-priced bean to experiment with


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Yes, I was amazed at how much play there was with screwing in the burrs. Nightmare, I thought they might have been self centring but no.

El Carajillo did a post about using plastic spacers to centre them, worth trying.

I think they'll always be a certain amount of miss alignment.

Just checking.....Did you slot the lower burr carrier into the notches on the spindle?


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## mike00 (Sep 23, 2014)

I tried plastic spacers but couldn't find the perfect width. With the lower burr it was possible to detect with the eye how far out it was just by spinning with my hand (and plug removed from mains socket!). I've seen El Carajillo mention a tool to measure the run out, but I can see the lower burr is centred enough.

Yes I've seen the seen the picture of the damaged burr carrier and made sure I slotted into the notches on the spindle. Not sure how centred the top burr is. Very difficult to tell without the tool


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I got lucky and the first thing I tried was a perfect tight fit... It was the plastic handle of a large Daz washing powder box


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

mike00 said:


> I tried plastic spacers but couldn't find the perfect width. With the lower burr it was possible to detect with the eye how far out it was just by spinning with my hand (and plug removed from mains socket!). I've seen El Carajillo mention a tool to measure the run out, but I can see the lower burr is centred enough.
> 
> Yes I've seen the seen the picture of the damaged burr carrier and made sure I slotted into the notches on the spindle. Not sure how centred the top burr is. Very difficult to tell without the tool


Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the tool you're referring to is called a DTI Gauge or Dial Gauge and is used for measuring the vertical run out of the burr not how centred it is i.e. it measures wobble up and down not side to side. It's important to have no wobble so that as the lower burr spins the distance between it and the top burr is consistent. If there is any wobble then you'll get an inconsistent grind as some coffee will be ground finer as the wobble brings the two burrs closer together for part of its rotation.


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## mike00 (Sep 23, 2014)

Aah yes I understand now. The vertical run out is the one to be worried about, not horizontal. The up-and-down wobble would be because of a warped burr carrier, probably caused by trying to unevenly force it off a tight spindle.

Mine wasn't forced, but it would still be interesting to check the vertical run out. Might have been levered before I purchased it or not quite perfect from factory. We would only be able to make sense of this by comparison between a few SJs.

I'm not too worried, and can live with it, but if I can get my hands on a dial gauge then will take measurements


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## mike00 (Sep 23, 2014)

And yes, a wooden chopstick through the exit chute sounds like the best way to get the lower burr carrier bolt undone. I wasn't worried about slipping with my method, but yours is much safer


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

I seem to remember reading an interesting article about burr alignment and how the burrs themselves aren't always manufactured as flat as you would expect and so can introduce their own slight "wobble" when fitted. The article talked about rotating the orientation of burrs during fitting to the carrier to try and find the best compromise.

Regarding the Dial Gauges , take a look on eBay there are always loads of cheap Chinese ones on there for around £8-10.


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Interesting post from a while back about making some "doughnuts" to aid in centring the burr carrier screws.

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?7082-Super-Jolly-Burr-Alignment


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

found the burr alignment article ; http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/burrs-carriers-micrometers-math-or-why-some-grinders-s-ck-t7358.html


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## mike00 (Sep 23, 2014)

Thank you Marcus. Very interesting discussions on alignment. I don't think I can leave mine alone now. Will have to get a cheap dial gauge


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

You can get decent ones for around £40 new, like here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mitutoyo-1044s-Plunger-Dial-Indicator-5mm-Compact-Mini-Gauge-Test-Inspection-/390836179268?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160

If you shop around there's plenty of Mitutoyo kit on ebay being sold for peanuts, unused in original boxes etc.


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