# DTP Warm Up Time compared to Lelit PL41TEM



## G_W_1 (Mar 2, 2018)

Hi All

First time poster, so hello to everyone!

I was hoping someone could enlighten me regarding the warm up times of these two machines.

I have had a look through some of the previous posts and note that the Lelit PL41TEM takes around two minutes for the boiler and 15 minutes fully to heat up. I also saw a post mention the DTP takes around one minute (though I am unsure if this is generally or the boiler).

I have heard lots of good things about the DTP, however really like the idea of a more variable PID & also the pressure gauge. The Breville Infuser would have been the perfect machine, but alas as we all know it is not available in the UK!

The reason I ask is I like the idea of being able to quickly make a coffee when I want one, not having to wait 15 minutes for the machine to heat up!

If anyone could shed some light on this or alternatively recommend another machine along these lines I would be very grateful. This will be my first machine and I will be pairing it with a Mignon Eureka (possibly the Specialita that is soon to be released).

Thank you!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Hi...and welcome

The DTP will be to brew temp ( as opposed to boiler ) . It's group is different set up.

The Lelit will take longer to warm up as there is probably a lump of metal in the group that needs to get to temp . If so 15 mins is on the short side for this.

Out of interest what do you think the pressure gauge will bring to your coffee making experience? IMHO it adds little as you should be judging a shot by the taste , not by a pressure gauge. Variable pid is handy but I suspect most people do not ned up changing the temp alot , they get to tasty by altering grind or brew ratio instead.


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## G_W_1 (Mar 2, 2018)

Thank you for your reply and welcome!

I thought as someone new to brewing it would be a useful thing to help gauge what the ideal pressure should be in order to guide me - though I do completely understand your point regarding the taste as being the main guide.

Again, variable PID perhaps is not so needed. I wanted a machine that was perhaps somewhat more adjustable as I get more confident and fancy experimenting more, thus I thought buying a machine which allows this may help expenses in the longer run. However if the DTP is set at an ideal temperature already, perhaps there is little need?


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## meg (Jan 7, 2018)

just different technology DTP- Thermoblock, Lelit - Boiler

google: https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=1268&bih=865&ei=1HuZWpnCGKOFgAbG_YjYBw&q=Thermoblock+vs+boiler+on+espresso+machine&oq=Thermoblock+vs+boiler+on+espresso+machine&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39k1.288294.288294.0.288768.1.1.0.0.0.0.84.84.1.1.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.83....0.Pe-LDKnbURQ


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

G_W_1 said:


> Thank you for your reply and welcome!
> 
> I thought as someone new to brewing it would be a useful thing to help gauge what the ideal pressure should be in order to guide me - though I do completely understand your point regarding the taste as being the main guide.
> 
> Again, variable PID perhaps is not so needed. I wanted a machine that was perhaps somewhat more adjustable as I get more confident and fancy experimenting more, thus I thought buying a machine which allows this may help expenses in the longer run. However if the DTP is set at an ideal temperature already, perhaps there is little need?


I can see why you would think that of a gauge. But you should be using taste and a brew ratio to guide taste not that a pressure gauges reads x during brewing. I know some will pipe up and disagree but I can't see it being anywhere near as useful as some scales and taste buds.

A temp stable machine is key , not particularly one where you can later then temp. IMHO.

Temp is one variable only, you should use , grind, and weight out to guide taste before temp ( IMHO )


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## G_W_1 (Mar 2, 2018)

Thank you for this. So based on this, perhaps I am better off getting the DTP and saving some money.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?41109&p=559670#post559670 - "It only takes 15 mins to be fully hot, the boiler gets to temp in 2 mins, but it is really worth waiting to get the group nice and hot". Am I right in thinking therefore that it could be ready to drink in two minutes or have I misread this?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

G_W_1 said:


> Thank you for this. So based on this, perhaps I am better off getting the DTP and saving some money.
> 
> https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?41109&p=559670#post559670 - "It only takes 15 mins to be fully hot, the boiler gets to temp in 2 mins, but it is really worth waiting to get the group nice and hot". Am I right in thinking therefore that it could be ready to drink in two minutes or have I misread this?


If quick warm up time is your key feature then the Sage wins.

The Lelit you need the group to get to a proper temp same as any large metal brass group.

Heat needs to get to the boiler that big lump of metal.

As said you need a stable temp from an epsreso machine to make espresso , a group not at the correct temp is not gonna help this.

*Yes it really is key to get the group to a decent temp, the tempo it is set for ,as it is for any espresso machine .*. I suspect 15 mins is under cooking it for the Lelit though. I am guessing in this respect though .

The post you linked is from someone who made 8 posts on this forum. I have no idea how he is measuring full temp in 15 mins either.


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## G_W_1 (Mar 2, 2018)

Brilliant, thank you for taking the time to go through this.

I strongly suspect the DTP is the right machine for me. However, do you know of any other comparable units for around this price with similar features? (only as I like to shop around!)


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

On many machines the brew pressure gauge is just there to indicate the pressure that an over pressure valve is set to. On a few machines that valve can be adjusted without taking the machine apart and its setting will have an effect on taste. Over pressure is a bit misleading really as it's fairly common practice to have that valve open while brewing.

So in many ways it's not an important thing to have. If you were looking at a Barista Express which I have and has one I would say it's useful but only because the machine can be used in a certain way - using infusion pressure through an entire shot or deliberately brewing at a lower pressures than the OPV is set at.

In terms of heat up time I don't think any company compete with Sage. DTP - well under a minute. Think it's about 30 sec actually. Then people just have to flush the machine through an empty portafilter - that's advisable on all machines.

John

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## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

I'm a DTP user and can testify that it does warm up very quickly (a minute or two) and produces a good shot. To make sure it's up to temp, I also run a cupful of hot water through the head and pf, which takes an additional 20 - 30 seconds. So, I'm happy with my DTP.

However, what do you want most, a really good shot or a 'good' shot within a few minutes? If time really is that critical then you can't go far wrong with the DTP. But if you don't mind switching the machine on while you do a few other things (i.e. waiting a few more minutes), and budget isn't the critical factor, it might be worth considering more expensive machines. I would ask yourself, what is your budget and perhaps report back for some more suggested machines.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I sometime pull 3 shots on the trot. Me, wife and son. One day I decided to taste each one. I found a pretty distinct difference between all 3 down to the portafilter heating up. These day I always flush through a pressurised basket as that really does heat the portafilter up. Sage mention always doing this through an empty ordinary basket before pulling a shot - good second option. It's needed to heat up certain items in the machine. It also helps keep the shower filter etc clear. There isn't any need to run a lot of water through to do this. I use a BE which meters the shot in a different fashion to the DTP so can just use the single shot button without wasting much water. On a DTP I'd suspect that a 15 sec flush should do it. If some one wants to get the portafilter as hot as it would get on a conventional all metal group head flushing through an empty pressurised basket will get it very hot. Sage add a bit of teflon to the portafilter to help prevent it taking too much heat out of the coffee but it doesn't work 100%, just helps.

I flush more or less as soon as the lights come on indicating it's ready. Then pull the shot. Maybe I go to these lengths as I use the single basket a lot - less coffee and things get more critical. I suspect I would find the same with double or any other basket though.

Dual boiler machines apart from Sage's usually take 15 to 20 min to get the grouphead up to temperature. Say 5min longer for the portafilter to get up to full heat as well if it's left in place. The boilers used in typical use at home machines might heat up in a 2 or 3 mins. That is then extended while the metalwork heats up. Longest time i have seen mention by a user is 1/2hr - a machine with a lot of Italian bling and so called thermosyphon to heat the grouphead. Sage's DB takes about 3min as they heat the metal work they use separately. Just like their others though it might take for ever to get a portafilter up to temperature and they still advise a flush before pulling a shot. I used 15sec on that through a pressurised basket.

Then comes HX machines that use a single boiler. Heat up time depend on it's size and how many watts they use in it. Only one heater needed so that heat up time could be similar. Depends on how big the boiler is.

John

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