# Coffee etiquette



## shatners bassoon (Jan 27, 2015)

When offered tea or coffee at someone else's house, how do you get around the 'as long as it's not instant' issue without appearing rude?

I've made an assumption based on spotting a Nespresso machine before only to end up with instant, which is even worse as it would be even more offensive not to drink it!


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Just say "no"

Always the safest bet


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

CamV6 said:


> Just say "no"
> 
> Always the safest bet


After having to drink what has been served, that thought has crossed my mind...in future just say "no thanks"


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I don't even drink the coffee in cafes unless there's some indication it'll be decent


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## Flibster (Aug 15, 2010)

If I can't get away from it, I'll go for tea with the bare minimum of milk. I'd rather go for water tbh.

I don't even drink coffee at restaurants now unless I know it's going to be good. Made that mistake at one of Heston's establishments. Mmmm...sour black nastyness and what smells like a pot of hot baby vomit. Lovely.


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## shatners bassoon (Jan 27, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> After having to drink what has been served, that thought has crossed my mind...in future just say "no thanks"


It has crossed my mind but there have been occasions where there's a good chance of something half-decent. I'm still at the stage where I wouldn't refuse meeting a friend in Costa!


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

shatners bassoon said:


> It has crossed my mind but there have been occasions where there's a good chance of something half-decent. I'm still at the stage where I wouldn't refuse meeting a friend in Costa!


I'm sure that will dwindle with time and improved taste buds.

Ian


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Out of all the family and friends I've visited, one serves Nespresso, the rest all serve instant and usually not good ones!


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## spune (Oct 3, 2011)

I'm all for honesty too and might just say I'm pretty "select" and opt for tea or something...

My friends and family always offer coffee with an added "I've only got instant though" style comment so it's often not too hard to refuse!

Definitely agree with the restaurant standards through; shocking on the most part!


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## chime101 (Jan 30, 2015)

first check for available pot plants ... Wasn't that an advert from the 70s ?


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## shatners bassoon (Jan 27, 2015)

Eyedee said:


> I'm sure that will dwindle with time and improved taste buds.
> 
> Ian


Ha ha! I try and keep them low-rent enough for social reasons - I'm even known to drink the odd pint of lager if there's no ale at the bar. Makes me appreciate the good stuff all the more. But I do draw the line at instant!


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

Tea or beer


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Lately I'll pass on coffee being offered when visiting others. If asked would I like something else instead, I'll usually go for a soft drink. Fruit juice or some fizzy pop!


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

As I work in sales, I am often in customer/prospect/partner or other business meetings and get offered tea/coffee all the time... I ALWAYS just take water.

Unless I know exactly who is making the coffee, and with what equipment, I typically refuse any "coffee" on offer.

I used to refuse coffee on the basis of being "a coffee snob" but was told by one customer that "Ah, that's OK, so is the MD - we can use his machine" - to be shown a Tassimo (or similar capsule) machine and almost forced to drink one - it wasn't good. Ever since I just avoid the subject and ask for cold water.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Dare I say it, I still own a Tassimo machine, had it for 3-4 years. Catching dust nowadays since investing in some 'proper' equipment. But still have a few packets of pods in the cupboard if someone pops round and they don't have the time for me to switch and warm up the Brewtus.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I don't much like tea, or pop...I like coffee though, so if I'm offered it I take it, sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised, but generally take it as an act of kindness & treat it as such.

I mean what's the worst that can happen ..hmmm, wasn't that another ad..?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

shatners bassoon said:


> When offered tea or coffee at someone else's house, how do you get around the 'as long as it's not instant' issue without appearing rude?


Explain you've become a coffee bore and instant doesn't float your boat anymore.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Don't get me wrong I still drink instant but hopefully that will become rarer and rarer the better I get at making real coffee. It's just some of the sh*te quality I've been served by others...rank is the word that springs to mind!


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

"What've you got?"

'<insert bleh here>'</insert>

"Gin n tonic plz bud"


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Scotford said:


> "What've you got?"
> 
> '<insert bleh here>'</insert>
> 
> "Gin n tonic plz bud"


Ha ha, too funny!


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I've had perhaps seven cups of instant in the last four months. In each case spiked with scotch. Not complaining... Much as I would prefer a decent coffee on these occasions it would, a) be churlish to refuse and b) before a cold day in the countryside, my loss.


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## stevogums (May 8, 2013)

Just say NO!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> Out of all the family and friends I've visited, one serves Nespresso, the rest all serve instant and usually not good ones!


Is there a good instant?


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Is there a good instant?


The kind that gets composted


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Not if you're directly comparing it to real coffee, no. But there's certainly some that I've found far worse than others. Kenco Milicano and Nescafé Gold Barista. Both so weak...practically pointless drinking them imo! Ones I personally have drank a fair amount of are Kenco 100% Brazilian & 100% Costa Rican plus Nescafé Alta Rica.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

DoubleShot said:


> Not if you're directly comparing it to real coffee, no. But there's certainly some that I've found far worse than others. Kenco Milicano and Nescafé Gold Barista. Both so weak...practically pointless drinking them imo! Ones I personally have drank a fair amount of are Kenco 100% Brazilian & 100% Costa Rican plus Nescafé Alta Rica.


You are now officially banned!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Quick, change the subject to something other than instant coffee!


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## El Cabron (Nov 23, 2013)

I think if someone has been generous to make tea or coffee, whether instant or otherwise, you should perhaps get over your snobbery and be grateful they gave you something. Christ, what next? If you don't have a £1000+ machine and £1000+ grinder then i don't want a coffee?

I don't buy or drink instant but my mate sometimes offers me a drink and he'll make instant coffee and i'll drink it. It's not my favourite drink but i show gratitude and i have manners. It's just a drink, it's not going to kill you.



shatners bassoon said:


> When offered tea or coffee at someone else's house, how do you get around the 'as long as it's not instant' issue without appearing rude?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

El Cabron said:


> I think if someone has been generous to make tea or coffee, whether instant or otherwise, you should perhaps get over your snobbery and be grateful they gave you something. Christ, what next? If you don't have a £1000+ machine and £1000+ grinder then i don't want a coffee?
> 
> I don't buy or drink instant but my mate sometimes offers me a drink and he'll make instant coffee and i'll drink it. It's not my favourite drink but i show gratitude and i have manners. It's just a drink, it's not going to kill you.


Is saying 'no thanks, i'll just have some water' ungrateful? Or are you some sort of yes man who can't say no to things? What if they offered you a nice wee hit of smack?


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

On the topic of restaurant coffee... I don't understand why they would never let just anyone cook their food and serve it to paying customers, but they will let literally any untrained buffoon make coffee for paying customers, despite coffee having the highest mark up in a restaurant and that just 2 coffees brings in about the same net profit % as 1 course. I also don't understand why cleaning regimes are so stringent for kitchen appliances but for a coffee machine, could go over a year without a thorough clean. It is technically a food.


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## El Cabron (Nov 23, 2013)

No thats not ungrateful but saying not if it's instant is in my book. The smack remark is pathetic, no i'm not the kind of bloke who says yes, i just don't have a superiority complex.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Instant tastes like shit, i'm not going to drink something that tastes like shit just to be polite. That's not a superiority complex.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I haven't actually said "no thanks" to instant coffee when visiting others. But I have been served awful coffee. Politely drank it then made mental note to self...in future, perhaps pass or have water or a soft drink instead. I don't think I could ever be rude to someone who has just politely offered you a beverage.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Also just turn it down, unfortunately friends of friends will often hear that I 'love coffee' and will be surprised when I turn it down.

I like a regular old builders tea anyway!


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## El Cabron (Nov 23, 2013)

I'd rather have tea than instant, but sometimes all he has is instant coffee and if i'm thirsty i'll drink a cup to tide me over til i get home. It's not the end of the world in the grand scheme of things.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

DoubleShot said:


> Ones I personally have drank a fair amount of are Kenco 100% Brazilian & 100% Costa Rican plus Nescafé Alta Rica.


You do realise you said that out loud and didn't just think it, don't you?

Whatever next? Walking into a local synagogue and talking about how pork chops are actually quite tasty?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

It's fine if you dont mind instant, I have never liked it and was fairly sure I didn't like coffee at all as it was all I tried for years.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Yup, I took Martin's bait, lol!


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

I feel I should clarify my advice to just say "no"

I didn't mean a polite and gentle refusal

I mean arm outstretched, Palm outwards into face of host and a firm, loud "no" with a facial expression of forceful disgust, tinged with a hint of utter confusion


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> I don't even drink the coffee in cafes unless there's some indication it'll be decent


I'm the same, some cafes couldn't spell coffee never mind make it, I couldn't tell you the last time I had coffee in a cafe or in someone's house. I'm usually offered a tea or a coffee every single working day by some very kind souls but mostly I refuse both as it ends up with biscuits too and I'm at that age so I only ask for tea unless I happen to be in the fortunate position of being in a coffee person's house which is very very rare.


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> Instant tastes like shit, i'm not going to drink something that tastes like shit just to be polite. That's not a superiority complex.


My wife drinks instant coffee black and refuses point blank to have an espresso, think she's frightened of the caffein so I don't push it, my daughter will not even taste espresso but is a foodie.

I've offered to make Americanos with a dash of milk, cortado, half and half but no way hosay.

My son on the otherhand drinks more espresso than I do.


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## AussieEx (Jul 10, 2013)

The real question should be, what does Heston deserve for serving Nespresso in all his restaurants (yes, including the Fat Duck) because its "good enough" and then having the cheek to lend his name to a new DB machine from Sage...


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

AussieExpat said:


> and then having the cheek to lend his name to a new DB machine from Sage...


I'm a fan of Heston on tv and he nearly sucked me into purchasing one of those Sage machines with all his marketing!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

El Cabron said:


> The smack remark is pathetic


I only accept smack from hosts if it's single origin, traceable and organic


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

chime101 said:


> first check for available pot plants ... Wasn't that an advert from the 70s ?


I had a few of those being grown in an empty pub I had (not my plants!) the Police offer a Crack'in property clearance service in those circumstances

Oh yeah, don't risk coffee, ever. Opt for tea


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

El Cabron said:


> I think if someone has been generous to make tea or coffee, whether instant or otherwise, you should perhaps get over your snobbery and be grateful they gave you something. Christ, what next? If you don't have a £1000+ machine and £1000+ grinder then i don't want a coffee?
> 
> I don't buy or drink instant but my mate sometimes offers me a drink and he'll make instant coffee and i'll drink it. It's not my favourite drink but i show gratitude and i have manners. It's just a drink, it's not going to kill you.


See the problem with society is that we are conditioned to tell lies, why is being honest and saying no thankyou I just won't enjoy it so bad? It's not impolite or rude, us Brits have to suffer crap because it's the right thing to do! Piffle, Great tasting coffee doesn't have to cost the earth either, I have been known to take the aeropress and hand grinder round and make them a lovely cup of coffee. (now that's pollite)


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

El Cabron said:


> I think if someone has been generous to make tea or coffee, whether instant or otherwise, you should perhaps get over your snobbery and be grateful they gave you something. Christ, what next? If you don't have a £1000+ machine and £1000+ grinder then i don't want a coffee?
> 
> I don't buy or drink instant but my mate sometimes offers me a drink and he'll make instant coffee and i'll drink it. It's not my favourite drink but i show gratitude and i have manners. It's just a drink, it's not going to kill you.


Oh okay, so you go and stay at a friend of yours' place. They live in a squalid squat though. Go and graciously accept their offer. Manners manners.


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## Zakalwe (Oct 19, 2014)

El Cabron said:


> I think if someone has been generous to make tea or coffee, whether instant or otherwise, you should perhaps get over your snobbery and be grateful they gave you something. Christ, what next? If you don't have a £1000+ machine and £1000+ grinder then i don't want a coffee?
> 
> I don't buy or drink instant but my mate sometimes offers me a drink and he'll make instant coffee and i'll drink it. It's not my favourite drink but i show gratitude and i have manners. It's just a drink, it's not going to kill you.


Why would a polite "No, thank you" be seen as having bad manners?

I don't drink whiskey anymore after one particularly bad session on the stuff. The smell of it makes my stomach do loops now. Should I gulp it down if I was offered so as not to cause some imagined offence?


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## El Cabron (Nov 23, 2013)

If i was homeless and needed somewhere to stay then i'd have no problem living in a squat. I don't know what that has to do with accepting a drink off someone but there you go.....



Scotford said:


> Oh okay, so you go and stay at a friend of yours' place. They live in a squalid squat though. Go and graciously accept their offer. Manners manners.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

El Cabron said:


> If i was homeless and needed somewhere to stay then i'd have no problem living in a squat. I don't know what that has to do with accepting a drink off someone but there you go.....


You've entirely missed the point


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zakalwe said:


> Why would a polite "No, thank you" be seen as having bad manners?
> 
> I don't drink whiskey anymore after one particularly bad session on the stuff. The smell of it makes my stomach do loops now. Should I gulp it down if I was offered so as not to cause some imagined offence?


Well if you don't like whisky, then refusing on that basis is fine, refusing because you "only drink single cask, 20YO+, diluted with water from the distillery" on the other hand...?

But there's a difference between coffee & whisky...the whisky has been made before it is offered/served, the worst the host can do is over/under dilute, serve it in a vessel that's not your favourite Tommee Tippee cup. This is also the case for instant, it's extracted, you just dilute it, if it's horrible it's weak horrible or strong horrible, if it's bearable it's more bearable at a preferred strength.

Coffee brewed from beans is still beans at the time it is offered, it has the potential to be great, or too weak/strong &/or over/under extracted. I don't care what beans I, or anyone else use, if it doesn't reflect in the cup it's potential wasted.


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

There's politely declining and then there's having it forced upon you by a drunk and sensitive host who feels offended after you have politely declined.

I wouldn't say it was the worst coffee I have ever had but the opaque drink that came from a long brewing percolator was served in a (stolen) Starbucks bucket to which I added three sugars and 1/3 pint of milk.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

So how about if you are offered a drink and you just aren't thirsty or don't need/want one?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

next time you are in a cafe, ask the barista if you can pay after you have tasted it......thats what I do regularly......and pay for very few. I do not drink them and refuse of course, as one sip is normally enough to tell


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

CamV6 said:


> So how about if you are offered a drink and you just aren't thirsty or don't need/want one?


You drink it and be thankful, God dammit!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CamV6 said:


> So how about if you are offered a drink and you just aren't thirsty or don't need/want one?


Then just say that? It's a different scenario to a coffee lover who won't drink coffee just because they didn't make it themselves. I can make crap coffee from the finest beans, I'm pleased when it comes out great (mostly it does), but I won't judge someone else's coffee until I have actually tasted it...there's rejecting the concept (which is just a concept until you taste the real thing) and there's basing your preference on actual results.

There's always milk & sugar....& chocolate sprinkles...and syrup....& marshmallows....& ice cream....booze.....if it goes wrong. ;-)

If I'm at someone's house & they offer me coffee ice cream, I don't refuse because it's not made with a Kenyan SL28 brewed in a siphon, I don't ask for tea favoured ice cream, I give it a go but without the illusion it's anything other than based on a mass market preference & offered in good faith as what the host expects from it when they chose it.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> next time you are in a cafe, ask the barista if you can pay after you have tasted it......thats what I do regularly......and pay for very few. I do not drink them and refuse of course, as one sip is normally enough to tell


One sip is rarely enough for me, espresso is a layered beverage, I always get to the end, or as near as I dare before evaluating.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

MWJB said:


> One sip is rarely enough for me, espresso is a layered beverage, I always get to the end, or as near as I dare before evaluating.


I am usually talking cortado......one sip is all it takes to see if the combination of bean, and extraction to milk is good. You cannot just take a lightly roasted bean and necessarily turn it into a cortado and it taste the same.....at the end of the day, if you tell them you want an earth taste which cuts well across a small amount of milk and they serve you something which comes nowhere near, then why should you pay for it?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> .....at the end of the day, if you tell them you want an earth taste which cuts well across a small amount of milk and they serve you something which comes nowhere near, then why should you pay for it?


Shouldn't it all taste like earth, after all it was ground just a few moments ago...









Aaah, they do say the old ones are the ...erm...ones that have been around longest?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

''I demand earth and wont pay unless its earth!''


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> one sip is normally enough to tell


This makes no sense to me, if the shot is pulled and is getting everything from the bean is should in terms of taste, but it just doesn't suit your palette, do you refuse to pay?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Yes. Bearing in mind that a lot of cafes do not actually stock anything beyond medium. If you tell them specifically what your taste is and what you require, Then if they choose to accept the challenge and get it wrong, I do not pay


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

So your after a taste more suited to a darker roasted bean?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

If you're up front you want a dark roast and they give you something tasting of lavender and fresh laundry then fair enough. I'd probably just pay and not go back but i'm a bit of a shitebag with these things


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

But if you know the bean is not going to give you the taste your after, why would you even bother... I mean when i go into a cafe/coffee house i look at the beans on offer and ask what the bean is best suited too...

Maybe its just me.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> tasting of lavender and fresh laundry


Bootsy notes?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Its like a twisted game of 'these poor people barely make a living as it is , lets screw around with them for fun - them versus me'

Why not just frequent other shops instead?!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The issue is if you don't know though and you're relying on the barista. Going into a cafe and ordering something you know you won't like is churlish


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Gonna go for a steak tonight, then refuse to pay as it didn't have enough blood in it....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

If you wanted it burnt to a cinder, and it came blue, would you send it back?

It's different if you have a chat with the waiter first, and he tells you they only serve steakes blue - then you can choose to go somewhere else that will burn your steak for you. If the waiter leads you to believe he can accomodate your taste (which you made clear at the start of the process) and then can't then you'd be more entitled to do as DFK does.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> If you wanted it burnt to a cinder, and it came blue, would you send it back?
> 
> It's different if you have a chat with the waiter first, and he tells you they only serve steakes blue - then you can choose to go somewhere else that will burn your steak for you. If the waiter leads you to believe he can accomodate your taste (which you made clear at the start of the process) and then can't then you'd be more entitled to do as DFK does.


Thank you jeebsy. That is exactly the point I was making. No mind games. A straightforward request. Turn it round. Why should I pay for a drink from a vague description, taste it and find it no to my liking?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

But dfk is saying he goes to cafes that serve a medium bean. Then expects the barista to achieve a taste more suited to a darker roast, when they obviously can not achieve this he refuses to pay, or am I reading it wrong?


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

TBH I set my sights far lower. I've long since given up on getting anything to my tastes, just something acceptable.

I was in a place called the Coffee Bean in High Barnet recently. I spoke to the guys behind the counter about their coffee, told them it wa my hobby etc. They said they'd do me a nice doppio macchiato.

Was I got was so incredibly shit that even my wife spat it out. It was basically a single which was clearly ground too coarse and/or not tamped properly, run long way past a double shot, with some small amount of scalded milk in it.

Initially I just laughed and thought what the heck, but it rankled with me, so I tried to quietly and politely take it back, pint out the deficiencies and ask for a refund. They made a huge song and dance about it and very ungraciously gave a my refund telling me no one else complained about their coffee. I told them I wasn't asking for a refund for anyone else. As I walked out I looked at the tables and saw that almost exclusively, everyone I passed was drinking tea!

Anyway, I think we have strayed a little off the original question/proposition haven't we?


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## adam0bmx0 (Feb 20, 2014)

Also, requesting a steak to be cooked a particluar way only has one variable, how long you leave it cooking for, espresso, completely different, so can't use it as a valid comparison!

I wouldn't walk into a place that serves Has Bean (for example), challenge the barista to make it taste like the earth, then refuse to pay when i receive it and it doesn't meet my perceved taste expectation....................


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> But dfk is saying he goes to cafes that serve a medium bean. Then expects the barista to achieve a taste more suited to a darker roast, when they obviously can not achieve this he refuses to pay, or am I reading it wrong?


No I am not. Some medium beans can have the taste I like. I am saying if I go to a cafe that seems to be serving medium or lighter beans, I ask them if they are able to have a go to produce something akin to what I have asked for. If they say no, I respect their answer. If they say yes, then the gauntlet is thrown down.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I wouldn't walk into a place that serves Has Bean (for example)

I would not either, so thats two of us!

challenge the barista

Why not, he can say no

to pay when i receive it and it doesn't meet my perceved taste expectation....................

If you ask for an orange, and they give you an apple, which one of you is more stupid?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

adam0bmx0 said:


> Also, requesting a steak to be cooked a particluar way only has one variable, how long you leave it cooking for, espresso, completely different, so can't use it as a valid comparison!


The steak analogy is really good i think although it does bring the roasting element. With the steak you have how long it was cooking for, temperature it was cooked at, seasoning, whether it was at the right temp prior to cooking, breed of the bull, animal husbandry/welfare.....so much more than just how long it's cooked for.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> If you ask for an orange, and they give you an apple, which one of you is more stupid?


Sure you haven't accidentally wandered into the greengrocers?


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Hold on a minute, this isn't the first time that one of David's 'discussions' had lead us to the subject of steak analogy. I'm sure the freezing beans thread moved on to steak aswell.

I see a pattern forming! General rule of thumb. If David mentions steak in any discussion you know its gonna get ugly!

Look, safest way. If anyone offers you, coffee, whiskey, steak, apples or oranges, just walk away. Just don't get involved. It aint worth it


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Anyone fancy a lemon tea?


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Anyone fancy a lemon tea?


Can you make it so i tastes like a rare steak?


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Anyone fancy a lemon tea?


There see that's how you do it


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## Danm (Jan 26, 2012)

I don't actually find the taste of instant offensive. Some of it with a little sugar is quite nice...but i'm not going to pretend its coffee as i like to think about coffee. I think sometimes we get a little too precious about what we think coffee should be like or how it should be consumed....instant is instant...its not pretending to be anything else....

In fact i would probably rather instant than an expresso made from pre-ground beans and a £80 machine from argos


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Well the thing with instant is that mostly the likes of regular Nescafé etc are made from robusta so it will tend to offend our arabica loving tastes. Yes there are some arabica instants too but somehow even those manage to be pretty foul


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## Vieux Clou (Oct 22, 2014)

Had a cup of Nespresso at a chum's house today. That stuff is fantastic, and so convenient! I'm going to sell the Lelit, the grinder and all the rest of the kit and drink nothing by Nespresso in future!!!!


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## andrewp (Dec 10, 2014)

I'll keep my eye open in the 'for sale' section then!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Indeed Nespresso are probably the nicest of all pod based machines but it's outrageous imo just how few places sell them in the UK if you don't wish to order via their website, being made to order only in certain quantities (on their seasonal limited editions around Xmas) and paying for delivery unless you're ordering 200 or more capsules (which depending on capsule chosen can cost £70!)


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm sure I've seen on fleabay you can get reusable nespresso capsules so you can use your own coffee


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

CamV6 said:


> I'm sure I've seen on fleabay you can get reusable nespresso capsules so you can use your own coffee


Yes, but won't be Nespresso then *in a George Clooney voice!*


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## Nick H. (Sep 21, 2014)

When I visit family I take a moka pot and pre-ground Illy. Now that I am learning the ways of this forum I'll have to consider strapping my newly acquired Classic and MC2 to my motorbike.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

What about trying an Aeropress plus hand grinder combo before lugging the Classic/MC2 around?


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

DoubleShot said:


> Yes, but won't be Nespresso then *in a George Clooney voice!*


Not when you do it, no







:exit:


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Actually the line should be...

"Nespresso? No, it's something else!"

Lol!


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## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

I like it when your host says "But its Nescafe Azzera!"

The packaging even goes as far to say "Do you prefer a double shot? Then add 2 tea-spoons of Azzera" So funny!

I just ask for a glass of water instead!


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

big dan said:


> I like it when your host says "But its Nescafe Azzera!"
> 
> The packaging even goes as far to say "Do you prefer a double shot? Then add 2 tea-spoons of Azzera" So funny!
> 
> I just ask for a glass of water instead!


Don't be so elitist. If you're offered something you most likely won't enjoy you should definitely not politely decline for gods sake. You should ALWAYS make yourself suffer, then force it down and be grateful for the privilege. Tsk.


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## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

Love it Scotford!

My friends will end up wondering why i have £2000 worth of coffee equipment when they can make just a good cuppa!


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Check your privilege ffs, sjw crew UNITE!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

big dan said:


> I like it when your host says "But its Nescafe Azzera!"


A contractor on our team was into his coffee and started asking me a few questions after seeing the Sowden. I started talking about the Kenyan I was drinking that day and the bird who sits across from me said "I love nice coffee. The Nescafe with the orange lid is so good!" Sighed a bit inside but that's the first coffee I ever drank....


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## Vieux Clou (Oct 22, 2014)

As I mentioned before, when I see the Inlaw Paw tucking into his Nescafé decaff with a heaped teaspoonful of Ovaltine and a sugar-lump or two... that way lies madness. Or, I'd say, diabetes, but at 97 I don't think it bothers him.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Nescafé Azera seems to contain something not in other instant coffees that gives it what looks like a poor man's crema.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> Nescafé Azera seems to contain something not in other instant coffees that gives it what looks like a poor man's crema.


Because it not regular instant, it's 'Barista style'!


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> Because it not regular instant, it's 'Barista style'!


Show me a barista that is truly skilled with a high end espresso machine and I'll show you one equally skilled with a spoon.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Scotford said:


> Show me a barista that is truly skilled with a high end espresso machine and I'll show you one equally skilled with a spoon.


Let nescafe's food scientists do the work.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> nescafe's food scientists


Food science

Nescafé

Nes café

Science

Nes

Food sci

Cafe


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Nescafé Gold Blend on the other hand...probably the most expensive instant on sale in supermarkets, medium roast at best and nothing 'barista' about it. Most of the high price tag must be to cover all the marketing?!?


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

DoubleShot said:


> Nescafé Gold Blend on the other hand...probably the most expensive instant on sale in supermarkets, medium roast at best and nothing 'barista' about it. Most of the high price tag must be to cover all the marketing?!?


That and the mass freeze drying process, telly ads, thousands of staff employed, CEOs salaries etc.


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## Mr O (Jan 14, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> Nescafé Azera seems to contain something not in other instant coffees that gives it what looks like a poor man's crema.


I call that 'Chemical Crema' and it lasts for about 12 seconds. I use it at work but soon to be replaced with my Aeropress (when my Rave delivery of beans arrives) pffff then it's still no over, I need to rest them for 7-10 days. That = more chemical crema









as for coffee etiquette, it's best to say, 'it's been a hard day / week, I don't suppose you have anything stronger?'


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## AussieEx (Jul 10, 2013)

I do refuse to drink instant. And I do sometimes get incredulous looks: 'but I thought you were really into coffee'. Um, yes.

The other week at a work meeting the 'catering' options were out: 'coffee' or hot water for tea. Someone asked which was coffee. I pointed them in to the appropriate urn and said "that's allegedly coffee". Horror ensued - "what's wrong with it? Is it really bad?". Someone else jumped in: "no, I think it's really nice coffee". Shrug.

In some situations, politeness dictates, so I will drink whatever is described as 'coffee'. At these times I add two sugars and a good whack of milk, and think of it as a milkshake.


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> I wouldn't walk into a place that serves Has Bean (for example)
> 
> I would not either, so thats two of us!
> 
> ...


What kind of coffee houses do you frequent?

In the coffee house I work in, we're more than happy to oblige our customers requests... However, we take our coffee very seriously. We weigh our ground espresso before extraction to within a tenth of a gram, and we time every single extraction. We also frequently weigh the espresso output and if even one thing is out we don't serve it. Simple as that. We adjust the grinder and water output on our espresso machine throughout the day to keep the espresso tightly reigned in and we also taste the espresso throughout the day. We are selling our product and we want the customers to drink what we believe to be the best of that bean.

I had a customer ask for a 60 gram shot last week and I warned him our grinder and espresso machine isn't setup to extract that much in the same time frames and it would be over extracted by our standards. I think if a customer asks for something like this, the risk is theirs, not ours. If you enter a respectable coffee house and ask them to produce you a coffee that isn't to their recipe then you should be liable for the risk of bad coffee.

I think the whole point of going to different coffee houses is because they produce a different taste to the last. North Tea Power for example, their beans and recipe are not to my taste so I don't drink there. TAKK I do like, I also like Grindsmith. If I wanted something they didn't already produce, I wouldn't go there. I don't want NTP's espresso so I don't go there, I would never go there and ask them to make me a shot that tasted like TAKKs.

In terms of tasting notes and description, the baristas should know exactly what they're working with. And definitely should have tasted everything they sell so they can talk about the products. What's on offer should be completely transparent to the customers e.g. what what beans are used, the roaster and roast date.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Taylor The Latte Boy said:


> What kind of coffee houses do you frequent?
> 
> In the coffee house I work in, we're more than happy to oblige our customers requests... However, we take our coffee very seriously. We weigh our ground espresso before extraction to within a tenth of a gram, and we time every single extraction. We also frequently weigh the espresso output and if even one thing is out we don't serve it. Simple as that. We adjust the grinder and water output on our espresso machine throughout the day to keep the espresso tightly reigned in and we also taste the espresso throughout the day. We are selling our product and we want the customers to drink what we believe to be the best of that bean.
> 
> ...


I think people have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I do not go into many coffee houses, and invariably if I have, I have not enjoyed what I was served. This is possibly down to the bean type rather than any inadequacies in how the shot was made. If I find myself wanting a coffee and I do not k ow the shop, I will have a look at the beans. Some places roast their own so you have to talk to them, others buy in branded beans where there is a good chance I will know a little about it.

I seem to find very few (apart from Italian style cafes) that serve anything remotely dark in colour, so, I will have a chat and tell them what I am looking for. Sometimes they will shrug their shoulders, other times they will say lets have a go and see what happens.

You cannot turn a lightly roasted acidic bean into the sort of thing I like, but sometimes, if the barista thinks, he can tweet and produce something akin to what I want. The point is not to have a free coffee. If they accept the challenge, I invariably accept the shot and pay, even if it was not what I was after, as the spirit of the event has been capture.

The other side of the coin is why do many cafes seem to forget that there are people who dislike the light stuff


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> This is possibly down to the bean type rather than any inadequacies in how the shot was made.


How can you determine this?



dfk41 said:


> You cannot turn a lightly roasted acidic bean into the sort of thing I like....


Beans aren't acidic, only the coffee made from them can be when done wrong, done right light roasts are often sweet.



dfk41 said:


> The other side of the coin is why do many cafes seem to forget that there are people who dislike the light stuff


Because they sell obviously coffee to people who do like what they are selling...or they go bust. There's no "forgetting", or "coin", there's just presenting the coffee the way you believe it should be presented, whatever that may be.


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## Beanaholic (Feb 2, 2015)

Have you thought about this from 'the other side'. When I offer my neighbours' coffee for the first time, I get a look of confusion when I walk past the kettle, anxiety when I start weighing, grinding a kerfaffling with the espresso machine. Then panic sets in when I set a small espresso in front of them. Usually I get asked weakly 'any chance of some milk'.

i have even had some returnees ask for a 'proper' coffee from the kettle and jar, not that new fangled contraption lurking in the corner. makes me smile.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

MWJB said:


> Beans aren't acidic, only the coffee made from them can be when done wrong, done right light roasts are often sweet.


The more you roast/kiln something , the lower the PH of the resultant liquid when brewed . Funny huh?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> The more you roast/kiln something , the lower the PH of the resultant liquid when brewed . Funny huh?


Interesting, add that to the fact that underextracted, acidic tasting coffee typically has less chlorogenic acids than ideally extracted coffee & off the cuff statements about "acidic coffee" get even more bewildering


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## AussieEx (Jul 10, 2013)

Beanaholic said:


> i have even had some returnees ask for a 'proper' coffee from the kettle and jar


When taking the tea/coffee order, if someone nominates coffee I ask "what would you like". Confusion. So I provide options (flat white, latte, cappucino etc). More confusion.

Strangely enough, the second time people visit, more of them want coffee


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Beanaholic said:


> Have you thought about this from 'the other side'. When I offer my neighbours' coffee for the first time, I get a look of confusion when I walk past the kettle, anxiety when I start weighing, grinding a kerfaffling with the espresso machine. Then panic sets in when I set a small espresso in front of them. Usually I get asked weakly 'any chance of some milk'.
> 
> i have even had some returnees ask for a 'proper' coffee from the kettle and jar, not that new fangled contraption lurking in the corner. makes me smile.


Make em an americano or a latte then

Espresso is probably the least accessible coffee experience to be put infront of someone who normally drinks instant ....


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## Beanaholic (Feb 2, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Make em an americano or a latte then
> 
> Espresso is probably the least accessible coffee experience to be put infront of someone who normally drinks instant ....


To be honest, I normally make them a large latte, but it's always worth an espresso first just to see the reaction.


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## JekylL_VIW (Feb 13, 2015)

Most friends and family know not to offer me now if they have instant. I have noticed since getting my own espresso machine and grinder that there has been an increase in the frequency of visitors. I think I should stick a pricing list on the wall.

Just recently I was offered a coffee at a customers house and I would normally decline but he had just made his own from a tassimo machine, so it got my hopes up for something decent. I asked for something strong, expecting maybe an espresso or americano. I got a caramel latte, which the guy added another 2 sugars to. I drank it out of politeness but by God my teeth were screaming!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Ouch! Don't think even out of politeness I could drink a coffee with a couple of sugars in when I have been drinking all coffee (except flavoured lattes) without any sugar for the past 25 odd years!


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

JekylL_VIW said:


> Most friends and family know not to offer me now if they have instant. I have noticed since getting my own espresso machine and grinder that there has been an increase in the frequency of visitors. I think I should stick a pricing list on the wall.
> 
> Just recently I was offered a coffee at a customers house and I would normally decline but he had just made his own from a tassimo machine, so it got my hopes up for something decent. I asked for something strong, expecting maybe an espresso or americano. I got a caramel latte, which the guy added another 2 sugars to. I drank it out of politeness but by God my teeth were screaming!


On the question of etiquette why on earth would he:

a) Make you a "caramel latte" based on his offer of a "coffee" (let alone your response of something strong)...

A "caramel latte" (whatever you may think of it) would certainly NOT fit anybodies parameters of a "generic coffee"...

A bit like dishing up "blackcurrant and elderflower infusion" as a "cup of tea"...

So he has failed on the etiquette front straight away....

Your response "drinking it anyway" was very polite

Even if he had made a "normal" coffee - surely adding anything (including sugar) is equally wrong! (additives are your choice)

I have seen this thread meander a bit with a certain level of coffee snobbery but I think on the question of etiquette:

a) Some one offers you "something" - this is polite

b) You either accept of decline - this is polite

You may decline a "coffee" based on the knowledge that you are very picky and couldn't lower yourself to drink any shite produced by anyone but yourself on your own top of the range kit with individually selected beans or just cos you aren't thirsty - but the way you decline should be polite.

Actually even the way you accept should be polite - eg "Yes please - as long as you don't dish up instant shite!" Is not good etiquette!

c) Once accepted the "host" should supply you something within the parameters of the original offer (caramel latte is not within the parameters of "coffee"). This is polite.

Or (if he wants to offer something else) he should widen his offer..... "What type of coffee? I love "caramel latte" - This is also polite (whatever you think of CL) - but gives you the option of an opt out obviously your response should be nearer "No thanks - just plain coffee for me please" than "FFS WFT has CL got to do with coffee???"

d) Once whatever is finally agreed upon is delivered, politeness upon delivery is "Thank you".

Even if the resulting brew is the foul seepage of the devils underpants your response should stick to politeness....

ie Quietly not drink the disgusting muck and (only if questioned) should you give a reason - Something like it was a bit bitter/strong/sweet/whatever is much preferable to "It was disgusting - I would rather drink a Costa Caramel Latte to that muck"...

So in summary - etiquette is just being polite...

Accept or reject what is on offer - politely

Drink it or not - politely

The actual merits of the slop on offer doesn't affect the etiquette...

[/end rant]


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

What a great post and sums up what many on here including myself, I'm sure will agree, is polite etiquette.

I've never replied in a rude manner nor have I thrown insults if a hot drink wasn't to my liking. Yes there has been the odd occasion that an instant coffee tasted extremely poor and I wished to myself I did not have to drink it but I did all the same out of politeness and at the same time tried making a mental note in future to perhaps ask for a soft drink or not accept a drink at all when visiting that particular friend or family member.


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## Beanaholic (Feb 2, 2015)

I have just returned from visiting a guy across the valley (and had a great chinwag about tractors and sheep). He made me a cup of Lidl's finest and kindly 'made it a strong un' as I have heard that your inter coffee'. I happily drunk it despite the fact that it had 3 teaspoons of instant, as the intentions were good though normally if offered a drink I would ask for tea: Irish tea is always good. I even made appreciative noises when he extolled both its great flavour and incredible value.

My question is, at what point do I manage to get the message across that I am not an 'instant' man without hurting feelings. Do it too soon and I come across as a snob and I might blow the chance to while away a pleasant hour or two chinwagging about stuff on a Sunday morning. Wait too long and the issue becomes even greater as I cannot say that I find the drink that you've been serving me for the last 6 months, year, five years? is virtually intolerable and I was being polite rather than truthful.

In the West of Ireland you do not 'accept' or 'not accept' a beverage. The Mrs Doyle in Father Ted with her "go on, go on, go on, " was based on fact not fiction.

Has anyone found an acceptable path out of this conundrum?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Tell them instant is made with Robusta beans which have a much higher caffeine content to which you've become hyper-sensitive and need to avoid. Simples.


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