# HasBean challenge



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dear HasBean, over the years, I have bought your beans many times, but over the last few years, rarely. Not because there is anything wrong with your product, but because my equipment and taste has changed, and I am now firmly in the dark roasted camp.

Can I challenge your roaster, to try and come up with something for us dark boys? Some roasters have had a go and all they have done is take a selected bean a couple of stages further, and ruined it....so, the skill sets you put into your roasting style, expand it and include us dark boys!


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Has Bean do a dark roasted blend called Blake http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/has-bean-blends/products/blake-mk4-2014

Rest of the beans are roasted to their best, not to a certain dark/light profile (to my knowledge).


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## Has Bean (Sep 12, 2014)

Its Steve here, I thought best to jump in and answer this. So here goes, I hope this comes across how its meant, and thats friendly and explanatory, I want to reach out to you guys on the forums and be more in touch with you all.

We roast to where the coffee is at its best. I don't think that powerful tastes have to come from a powerful roast, and there are many option that a natural or a blend can bring with those BIG flavours without compromising the final taste.

Its not about stepping up to darker roasts for me, my job is to be in the background. You should never taste the personality of the roaster, but the personality of the coffee grower in the bean. As soon as you taste roast, you compromise this and make the coffee something it should not be.

I think of coffees like the Ugandan we had this year, and the indian bibi peaberry bold and Indian bibi coorg have that kick of flavour but it comes from the farmer not the roaster. These are maybe option to explore before looking for more roast.

I know all this sounds like I'm a bit of a dick, and I don't mean it to, but this is our style of roasting, and in the coffee community we are a niche. Most old school roasters cover this darker side of the coffee community far better than I can. If I became one of those roasters it would make me sad, and although I'm a dick I don't think forum members want me to be sad.

I built a company that I would want to buy coffee from, and hope that there were others that wanted to as well. We're still small (contrary to popular belief) and I've just jumped off the roaster to come and type this up for you all. I know for some of you, I am not the man for your coffee, but for those who like what we do, I hope you continue to be part of what were trying to do. But for all of you here, I hope were all amongst friends.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Steve, you forgot to mention you are ginger and a mackam, just to finish it off! David Kidd hides behind dfk41, a name from the past. I understand what you are saying and it is food for thought. there are many coffee lovers out there and perhaps I am in the minority for liking big bold flavours that smack you in the face, but not necessarily in the robusta way. I have and do try a fair few coffees and for fear of starting a labelling war, have not yet found anything the far side of medium that appeals to me. thank the lord I am in the minority!...and thanks for replying.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Well replied Steve,

Personally I'm a huge fan of HasBean, you guys have been there for me since day one. When I knew I was getting my very first grinder for christmas (an old MC2) I preordered two bags of your Cachoeira and they got me started on this whole journey.

I'm now a few years down the line, and although I have learned to enjoy a variety of roasters, I still buy from hasbean at least a couple of times a month. As my technique has improved I've learned to appreciate what I get from the lighter roasts and they suit my tastes quite nicely (although I am learning to appreciate some darker coffees).


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Hi Steve. I've bought lots of your blends in the past but then I started buying the greens from you and blending them in the proportions of your blends - and thumbs up to you for detailing the percentages of beans in your blends - unlike other coffee commons members I could name.

I then roasted them a little darker than you do because (and you can call me a dick here!), I DO like a little of the roaster's personality to come through.

I don't think either method is right or wrong - you wanted to start a company that you'd want to buy from and all I want to do is to make a cup of coffee that I want to drink.


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Hi Steve you sounded like me when I was describing what I liked about coffees when I had the shop, does that make me a dick too







(at least it doesn't make me a mackem ;p ) anyway I am a fan and use your coffee primarily and go with other roasters as I see something I fancy, or if I want a change. In times past, the roasty, chocolatey caramels were something I loved. Now anything that has more than a hint of roast turns me off.

Anyway there will always be differences of opinion and of taste, I for example would love a loring at home and the time and patience to roast my own coffee, I have neither so I buy from those who cater to my taste and I am grateful the likes of you exist as along with Peter at JG you are always willing to help and advise should people have questions.

All friends here anyway


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Doesn't dark roasting remove a bean's individuality by removing virtually all the acidic elements and caramelising all the sugars? Some beans seem better suited, e.g. Java, Malabar but in my experience, taking, say a Kenyan or an Ethiopian bean into a darker roast produces a taste profile that is more generic than individual.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Steve an excellent retort and I don't believe anyone thinks you are a dick, on the contrary I believe that there are beans that you take fairly dark, probably based on the rationale you posted above, everyone has a right to enjoy coffe how they want, and roasters have a right to do the best by their beliefs, this creates the mis match and variety that we all like to explore as coffee enthusiasts, may the diversity of coffee continue, it certainly makes the challenge of pulling the best out of a bean more enjoyable.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Good reply Steve.

Well explained, well reasoned and well balanced. And no, we certainly wouldn't want you to be a sad dick!

It certainly is helpful to know the roaster's intentions in understanding why a coffee is roasted a particular way.

Could you go one step further perhaps though? When you say you roast to get the 'best out of a coffee' what does that, in reality, mean? Does it mean you are looking to roast to find flavours or characteristics the farmer has described or does it mean you try different roasts and work out what tastes best? I guess what I mean is basically how do you know when your roast has changed the fundamental characteristic of the bean, and how to you know what that fundamental characteristic should be?

I hope that question makes sense?


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Maybe instead of DSOL contribution hows about a HSOL contribution I would be interested and I am sure many other forum members would love the idea of a roast done for the forum by HB.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Thecatlinux said:


> Maybe instead of DSOL contribution hows about a HSOL contribution I would be interested and I am sure many other forum members would love the idea of a roast done for the forum by HB.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Thecatlinux said:


> Maybe instead of DSOL contribution hows about a HSOL contribution I would be interested and I am sure many other forum members would love the idea of a roast done for the forum by HB.


Hmm, interesting idea I like that.

It may even encourage other roasters to follow suit, thus increasing the (very poor) number of good deals/offers available to the community here


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Re poor offers

Its worth remembering that dsol and lsol represent if not a " deal" then good value for money. Weve had raffles supplied by sponsors discount codes for origin, small batch, dusty ape, extract, and other roasters throughout the year discount in torr tampers VST and ims baskets. Group buys for shower screens..

Didn't glen buy london coffee tickets for some people, and donates drinks fund for our occasional meets...

Plus Discount in zenith grinders, deals from coffee bean for people who ask. Not bad for a free forum.

Run by people who donate their time


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

HSOL already exists . It's called In My Mug and is amazing value for money


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Re poor offers
> 
> Its worth remembering that dsol and lsol represent if not a " deal" then good value for money. Weve had raffles supplied by sponsors discount codes for origin, small batch, dusty ape, extract, and other roasters throughout the year discount in torr tampers VST and ims baskets. Group buys for shower screens..
> 
> Discount in zenith grinders, deals from coffee bean for people who ask. Not bad for a free forum.


Wasn't necessarily thinking of a deal , just thought it would be cool for us all sampling a has bean offering at the same time , would also have an advantage of having feedback off other members to assist in getting the best out of their extractions .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> HSOL already exists . It's called In My Mug and is amazing value for money


£250 for a bag of coffee every week for 52 weeks delivered







..


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> £250 for a bag of coffee every week for 52 weeks delivered
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So an almost identical price to DSOL / LSOL

Factor in the admin and delivery for 52 drops rather than 12 and IMM is very good value


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

working dog said:


> So an almost identical price to DSOL / LSOL
> 
> Factor in the admin and delivery for 52 drops rather than 12 and IMM is very good value


Close but not quite, although the DSOL and LSOL pay a similar equivalent, there is always enough left over for an extra roast, (expect a Christmas blend for those in the current DSOL free of charge) working out at less than £4 per bag as opposed to £5


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

No I didn't mean that existing or previous offers were poor, I meant that the number of them generally was poor and that I reckon the roasters are missing a trick in drumming up trade and notoriety on the forum. There are so many roasters out there but so few offer anything much by way of offers to our community by way group buys for example like the DSOL.

Indeed DSOL makes my point. The members (well coffee chap, ronsil et al) had to go to roasters to get them to offer, the roasters didn't come to us as it were.

If a few more roasters offered the odd or even regular GBs at attractive one off prices they might well find their order books more regularly populated by forum members just as a result of exposure.

Take Dusty Ape as an example. I could have picked a whole bunch of roasters but I mention them because I think their beans are excellent. A really nice roaster but gets little mention and little attention despite advertising. We loved their DSOL offering but it was a one off and whilst I suspect it did a lot of good, I also suspect they'd have an even better profile and more mentions if there were one or two follow up offers. That's not a complaint about them at all BTW.

I may be wrong but I'd have thought the key to success for any roaster is the holy trinity of profile, profile and profile.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

We've had 10, 15 and 20 quid a bag coffees in IMM. Plus you get it the day after roasting


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

What's all this got to do with my request for at attempt at roasting darker beans!


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> What's all this got to do with my request for at attempt at roasting darker beans!


Sorry if I caused this


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

CamV6 said:


> No I didn't mean that existing or previous offers were poor, I meant that the number of them generally was poor and that I reckon the roasters are missing a trick in drumming up trade and notoriety on the forum. There are so many roasters out there but so few offer anything much by way of offers to our community by way group buys for example like the DSOL.
> 
> Indeed DSOL makes my point. The members (well coffee chap, ronsil et al) had to go to roasters to get them to offer, the roasters didn't come to us as it were.
> 
> ...


I think the numbers on here are probably pretty small fry in the grand scheme of things


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Close but not quite, although the DSOL and LSOL pay a similar equivalent, there is always enough left over for an extra roast, (expect a Christmas blend for those in the current DSOL free of charge) working out at less than £4 per bag as opposed to £5


You are such a tease Mr Chap with your Christmas goodness.

Both are pretty good value although I suspect that most of my lighter bean quota for the next three months will be filled by LSOL.

After Mrs WD bleating on for years (sorry, explaining) that she doesnt like '*** ash coffee' she has now decided that she isnt as keen on acidic coffee (her description for some of the zingy lighter roasts) so she has moved into the darker roast camp. Dont know if this is my ability to make a reasonable brew improving or her just keeping me on my toes.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

No problems cat. It is difficult for Gary to hold his enthusiasm in check,a nd quite rightly!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> What's all this got to do with my request for at attempt at roasting darker beans!


Nothing

Your not getting one

Be quiet


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> What's all this got to do with my request for at attempt at roasting darker beans!


I guess the question was answered and then we all went off at a tangent. I blame the caffeine


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Hey bootsie, come round to mine one day and I will put hairs on your chest.....


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Hey bootsie, come round to mine one day and I will put hairs on your chest.....


That sounds a little bit gay


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

You are welcome as well Cam sweetie


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Let me have a chat with Steve about doing something for the forum. We won't change how we roast but I'm sure we can find a stunning single original that isn't released to the public. It would be dependant on sufficient numbers


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Let me have a chat with Steve about doing something for the forum. We won't change how we roast but I'm sure we can find a stunning single original that isn't released to the public. It would be dependant on sufficient numbers


I'm in!


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> let me have a chat with steve about doing something for the forum. We won't change how we roast but i'm sure we can find a stunning single original that isn't released to the public. It would be dependant on sufficient numbers


sweeeeeeeeeeeet!


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Good to hear your ethos on roasting Steve. Respect to you for producing what you think is good over what will bring the most commercial return.

After being more of a fan of the darker roasts for the last 18 months I've found myself being more drawn of late towards the medium and away from the dark dark stuff.

In fact I'm doing my very own Hasbean challenge as 1.5 kilos of you finest HB beans arrived on my door step today.









Really looking forward to it, I'm just resisting the urge to start on them immediately.

Gary, Like the sound of the forum special


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Good to hear your ethos on roasting Steve. Respect to you for producing what you think is good over what will bring the most commercial return.
> 
> After being more of a fan of the darker roasts for the last 18 months I've found myself being more drawn of late towards the medium and away from the dark dark stuff.
> 
> ...


Why not get started on some brewed?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Neill said:


> Why not get started on some brewed?










cheers Neil. I only got hold of them at 5pm today, can't drink coffee too late. Morning aeropress me thinks!


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Hey bootsie, come round to mine one day and I will put hairs on your chest.....


With a needle and glue I assume?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The thing I really do not understand, is all this personality malarky! I mean, look at Formula 1. A ,load of drivers all in cars built to a certain specification, meaning there should be little or no advantage in design, yet, the time difference between the first and last positions is staggering. Is all this down to the drivers ability?

If you gave the same bean to a dozen roasters and gave them no instructions other than to produce something they are happy with, then you are going to get a lot of variance in results, as you are placing the emphasis on the roasters shoulders to produce either what he wants, or what he thinks the public wants.

So a bean roasted by firm A might be perfectly acceptable, whereas a far darker variant of the same bean roasted by firm B might also be just as acceptable, but to either more or fewer people......so how much of it is down to trying to identify the largest part of the market ands roasting for that........in the same way that Londinium state quite simply, that they roast for lever machines and pump boys can go play with their fu fu valves!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I guess the quistion is, does a bean have 1 natural profile/flavour?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I think the answer has to be no......otherwise, the old Guinness fable gets blown out of the water!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Guinness fable?


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## Has Bean (Sep 12, 2014)

So I'll try to answer where I've been asked to and will avoid the stuff thats nothing to do with me

DFK41

Of course I remembered the username and the name behind it,v I think you can still find powerful along with medium roast.

Shrink

Bless you thank you !! Your the reason I wanted and the reason I continue to do this busienss.

DavidBondy

And you should, thats whats great about home roasting, and I encourage anyone who likes those flavours to do so (and its lots of fun)

Coffee Johnny

Geordie boy !! Thank you

The Systemic Kid

Its true the further you roast the further you remove anything thats unique, some coffees do lend themselves more to that as they are already BIG (I'm thinking sumatrans etc) but even then its a slight of hand that can develop those flavours.

Coffeechap

Thank you, thats super kind.

CamV6

Now thats a super question. Its about showing you the home barista what I found on the cupping table. What lit a spark in my mind to want to travel across the world to meet a producer and drop a chunk of money (above what the market says is sensible) on their table. Some unique quality that blew my mind at some point. to then bring it back and put my sticky footprint all over it makes me sad. Roasting it too far, will firstly stop you seeing the delicious cup I fell in love with, but also change it to what I think it should be. Later you talk about bringing offers to the forum, the Escocia offer I hope is the first of many we will be bringing weekly to you, and if theres enough take up we will continue to follow that up. Gary has been instrumental in convincing me this is a good idea, and I agree with him.

Working Dog

I don't think the lighter style has to be full of acidity. Some coffee naturally have this others don't. The indian Bibi we have is a perfect example, we don't show this a dark roast but it has virtually no acidity. its how the coffee should taste. And no one loves a *** ash roast









If I missed you sorry, re post and I'll try and keep an eye on the post (or Gary will dig me in the ribs).

A word of warning to you all posting here too, if Gary **** gives you any information about bins, he's a bin liar and can not be trusted on such information

Steve.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

another good response Steve, you're a credit to the industry. I enjoyed your talk in brew lab when you were up in Edinburgh this year and it was also full of little bites of info that show how passionate you are about coffee.

I'm looking forward to seeing what other offers you put on, and suspect, that if they float the boat of the forum, you'll get just as enthusiastic a response as you did with the COE offering.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Steve, tell you what then, Gary has had me try a couple of your roasts which in fairness, were great but not to my taste. If you get a bean, at any point that you think I should try and matches your definition of powerful, either drop a note here or pm me, and tell me what it is and I will go and order it from you


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## 7877 (Aug 14, 2014)

Ok just sticking my 2p in...I doubt I have anything much to add....but just my experience and why

i've always liked coffee. Always drank it as a teenager when others where swigging their pop (both sorts!). BUT it was primarily instant (shock horror!) except my Mum's huge old stove top percolator that I conviced her to let me take to college with me. During finals it was hardly ever off!

The debate I always heard was how strong do you want/like your coffee but I never quite got that other than the fact I knew coffee taste could be better and what most thought of as strong I'd rather creosote the fence with.

i don't know exactly what turned me on to getting a bit OCD over coffee but for me I realised "strength" wasn't what I was looking for but flavour (same goes for beer!) and I would usually pick up dark roasts in the supermarket for the percolator and filter machine

when I first looked to get a an espresso machine some years ago I found hasbean

so perhaps now my thinking is heavily influenced by Steve without me realising but I do know the way I experience and enjoy coffee today is largely due to Steve's approach/ethos and I never cease to be entertained and educated by the "Jilly Goolden of coffee"

i still can't get my head around "strong" and now ignore the roast that supermarkets seem to push (who seem to concentrate on mainly on light v. dark or worse "Italian"!). I know i like earthy, caramel, choclate, syrupy flavours, not so acidic and not so much the florals...but always open to being surprised.

so I for one virtually doff my cap to Steve and wish I could get that experience as a drinker from a coffee shop more easily!

Also A nod to Colonna & Smalls in educating me around the coffee cupping and tasting...that was a really good session...incidentally I can't remember talking about roast with them either....

cheers

chris


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

froggystyle said:



> Guinness fable?


the old story is that the warehouse to hut that the grain was stored in caught fire, and rather than throw the burnt, charred grain away, they brewed it in the same way, and viola....


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> the old story is that the warehouse to hut that the grain was stored in caught fire, and rather than throw the burnt, charred grain away, they brewed it in the same way, and viola....


Guinness started off making porter, before "stout porter" (previously stout just meant strong and could have been applied to other styles of beer too) so the fable sounds pretty much just that.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I did not say there was a 'grain' of truth in it mark.......


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

With the roast level of beans is it a case of ' two roasters will only agree on what the third one is doing wrong' ? I guess a lot is down to personal taste and preference.

Ive just started a bag of HB Kraftwerk - lets see if Mrs WD notices the zest in this one


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Lets also not forget that brewing parameters , particularly espresso, will need to be adjusted when dealing with different coffees/roasts. No one size fits all. The darker the roast the quicker it will extract, and there is less there to extract.

We see so many examples (I am not suggesting for one minute that this is the case here) of people switching from A (generic dark blend) to B (our coffee) with no methodical, logical or scientific approach to brewing and complain of problems with brightness or sourness to then hand me a drink and for me to agree with them ''yep its sour, because its under-extracted/poorly extracted''.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

They have a bean called Kraftwerk? I'm up for some of that when I've finished the escocia. Pefect for staying awake when driving on German motorways! Hopefully an Elektrokardiogramm won't show that the caffeine has given me palpitations. And I think we can trust Hasbean not to have roasted it so dark it glows with Radioactivity.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

It was a guest roast so no longer available


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Forum gets a mention this week http://inmymug.com/episodes/episode-306-on-monday-the-22nd-of-september-2014-indian-bibi-coorg-washed-hdt-catuvai


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

A nice explanation of the words that Steve wrote previously in the thread


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